0:00

Charles Eisenstein consistently

0:02

delivers a vision of the

0:05

future. He called this vision, the

0:07

more beautiful world our hearts know is possible.

0:10

This vision of the future

0:12

is really what we could call hope.

0:15

Part of that vision of the future that both he

0:17

and I share

0:18

is the belief that Robert

0:22

F. Kennedy Jr. supported

0:24

by the movement emerging naturally

0:27

from within all of us can

0:29

be a pivotal part of

0:32

creating this more beautiful world our hearts

0:34

know is possible. So in this podcast,

0:37

we talk about how that vision might come

0:39

to fruition. We talk about Bobby

0:41

Kennedy as we've gotten to know him. And

0:44

we also talk about aliens and

0:47

the potential alien disclosure,

0:49

which Charles believes might be

0:51

emergent from our own field of

0:54

consciousness, just as the more beautiful

0:56

world our hearts know is possible will

0:58

be emergent from the transformation

1:00

of our consciousness. So I hope you

1:02

guys enjoy this podcast with one of my

1:04

favorite humans on the planet, Charles Eisenstein.

1:08

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4:46

Charles, my brother, it's good to see you, man. Yeah,

4:48

Aubrey, happy to be here again. Yeah, all

4:51

right, so I'm gonna tell this story, and

4:53

I'm gonna tell a story about when

4:56

I called you when I was in Costa Rica, because

4:58

I called you because

4:59

I just finished recording a podcast with

5:01

Bobby, and I actually,

5:03

I was absolutely blown

5:06

away, not only by what he had to say, but

5:08

how he went about saying

5:10

what he had to say, and how actually precise

5:12

he was with his language,

5:14

and how it built this level of trust

5:17

that I had, and also what

5:19

I felt in my body. You know, I felt something

5:22

in my body. It was like, I fucking trust this

5:24

guy.

5:24

I didn't know his whole platform. I

5:27

didn't know everything, but I just trusted

5:29

that he was the type of person that would really listen

5:32

and move with integrity forward,

5:34

genuinely. So I went into my own

5:37

medicine journey after the podcast,

5:40

and I just got the clearest

5:42

picture of he

5:45

has a chance to win

5:47

the presidency of the United States, and

5:50

if so, the world radically

5:52

changes, and very much like

5:55

you wrote at the end of The More Beautiful World Our

5:57

Hearts Know Is Possible, paradoxically. He's

6:00

going to win, but it requires all of our

6:02

effort to be at the maximum

6:04

capacity that we have. And that's the paradox. He's

6:07

going to win.

6:08

And it requires all of us

6:10

to give everything we got. So I went

6:12

out and at the start of that podcast, this was before

6:14

he even declared when we recorded it,

6:16

then he declares and I said, I'm here with the next president

6:18

of the United States. Everybody's like, no way, he

6:21

has no chance. And I just heard

6:23

from my good friend who's in PR

6:25

and likes gambling that he's recently

6:27

in the last month gone from a 50 to one underdog

6:30

to a 10 to one underdog. So now my

6:32

statement is a little less crazy, but

6:34

where it intersects with you is very quickly

6:37

after I recorded the podcast,

6:38

I was like, all right, who are the people

6:40

that I need to call right away to

6:43

see if we can get support? Like who are the allies

6:45

that I need to call?

6:46

I was like, I got to fucking call Charles. And I'm in the middle

6:48

of an ayahuasca retreat in Sultara, like in between

6:50

sits. And like, my brains

6:53

are scrambled. But I'm like, I got to call Charles.

6:55

And I call you and I'm like, hey man, I

6:58

really have this amazing feeling

7:00

about Bobby as president. I really think like,

7:03

if you were able to offer your support,

7:06

and you're like, yeah, already doing it. Like I'm already

7:08

there. I'm already on it. And I was

7:10

like, oh, thank God.

7:12

Like it was just this huge moment of relief

7:15

to know that you had aligned your efforts and intentions.

7:18

And really one of the things about you and people who've

7:21

heard our podcast before, you've had a consistent

7:23

prayer to be put to good use.

7:25

And this is one

7:27

of the best causes that

7:29

I've seen

7:31

that could create the biggest impact.

7:33

And it was just, there was a deep,

7:36

deep sigh of like gratitude,

7:39

relief, excitement, enthusiasm, just

7:41

knowing that you had put your efforts behind

7:46

his campaign and that you felt

7:48

aligned with some of these things that I believed. And since

7:50

that conversation, it's only your role,

7:53

advising him and messaging and communication

7:56

and all that you have to offer is only expanded.

7:59

So that brings us to part

8:02

of the reason why we're here is to talk about,

8:05

all right, how

8:07

does this presidential

8:10

campaign,

8:13

even if it's just a campaign just entering

8:15

into the conversation, or potential victory

8:18

contribute to that more

8:20

beautiful world, our hearts known as possible. Like

8:23

what is this? How do you see this

8:25

playing out in all of those

8:27

different ways? And what does that world look

8:29

like in

8:31

Bobby Kennedy as president?

8:35

Yeah. I

8:37

think you actually hit on a key point when you said,

8:40

when you mentioned the paradox that

8:44

he's going to be president. And that doesn't

8:46

mean that we can sit back and let it happen. Because

8:49

the impact,

8:53

the change that his presidency

8:55

represents, co-resonates

9:00

with an evolution of

9:04

society and of our consciousness. It

9:06

means it's not

9:09

going to happen outside

9:12

of ourselves. And I don't want to make

9:14

him into some heroic figure. It's

9:18

actually a bit of the opposite.

9:20

It's that the field from

9:22

which someone like him could even be elected

9:26

has to change. The

9:28

existing political atmosphere

9:30

of this country is not conducive

9:33

to somebody with actual integrity

9:35

who's actually authentic.

9:38

And like a lot of the things you said, like

9:41

a good listener. And

9:43

someone who just

9:45

doesn't want to posture

9:48

and doesn't try to

9:50

figure out what people want to hear and then say that.

9:53

He doesn't do politics as normal. So

9:56

for him to be successful, not

9:58

doing politics as normal.

9:59

means that people are

10:02

going to have to respond to that,

10:05

rather than responding in the

10:07

way that they have been trained to respond

10:10

to ordinary politicians who

10:13

emit a constant stream of lies that

10:15

no one even believes,

10:17

but it's like this signal of, oh,

10:20

serious politician. Like it's all about

10:22

signals and spin and messaging.

10:28

You know, like what about actually communicating what you actually think,

10:30

you know? And so sometimes

10:33

I advise them, I'm like, just put everything on the

10:35

table.

10:36

Like everything that you were supposed

10:38

to do as a politician, think through that again. Like

10:41

for example, you're supposed

10:42

to have a plan, you're supposed to have the

10:44

answers,

10:46

but wouldn't it be refreshing for a politician to say, you

10:49

know, I really don't know what to do about healthcare.

10:52

You know, some people say this, some people

10:54

say that, it's a complex

10:57

puzzle. So yeah, and there's conflicting values

10:59

here, you

11:00

know, gun control, abortion,

11:03

like whatever the issue is,

11:05

like what if you actually don't know? Because

11:08

a lot of people don't know, you

11:11

know? Like, I don't know what

11:13

to do about some of these issues. Right. So

11:17

maybe the first, maybe if you already think

11:22

that you know, that's

11:25

actually a liability. That's

11:27

actually an impediment

11:29

to thinking outside the box

11:33

and sourcing something

11:36

that is outside the existing terms of debate.

11:39

It's almost like an I don't know, not from

11:41

ignorance, but an I don't know from humility

11:44

and respect for the complexity

11:46

of these multifaceted

11:49

issues, right? And it's to say like,

11:51

I don't know, but I'm gonna listen as

11:54

best I can to everybody in the field.

11:56

I mean, this is the nature of the archetype

11:58

of a good king.

11:59

of a good king, the one who listens

12:02

to the people and really, really

12:04

listens and listens to the best advisors

12:07

and is able to sort out the advisors who

12:09

have their own, you know,

12:11

gains and agendas and plans

12:13

that they want. I mean, we've seen that in all of the Disney

12:15

movies and everybody, there's the bad

12:18

advisor that just wants power or wants this manipulation

12:20

of that and be able to sort those out and like who are

12:22

the genuine people who are really helping

12:25

you think through these

12:26

complicated issues, which

12:28

is why when anybody, anybody asks me about, well,

12:30

you know, I don't know if I agree with Bobby on, on

12:33

climate or that. I was like, there's

12:36

a lot of issues I don't agree with him on. Exactly.

12:39

Because on the campaign doesn't mean that I agree with him about everything.

12:41

But the thing is, is like agreeing with him

12:44

even in itself is almost a false proposition

12:47

because what I'm agreeing with is I'm agreeing with

12:49

a man who's willing to evolve his opinion.

12:52

Right.

12:52

You know what I mean? I'm

12:55

where he stands now. It may

12:57

be this way. He may be thinking about things this

12:59

way, but surely he's going to be surrounded

13:02

by people who are even smarter

13:04

and wiser and listen to

13:06

more people as his audience and platform

13:08

grows. So he's in the evolution

13:11

of, of thought and understanding.

13:13

And that's what I believe in. And that's

13:15

what I agree with. Yeah. It may

13:17

turn out in the end that there's like, eh, I

13:20

would have gone this way and he would have gone this way. Trust

13:22

him to be able to sit around the table

13:24

like he's going to do tomorrow and be like, yeah,

13:27

I see your point, man. And like, this is,

13:29

this is a way I see it, but like, I respect

13:31

your opinion and, but this is the way I think

13:33

is best. And I'd be like, all right, I see that too. Yeah.

13:37

Yeah. You know, he doesn't surround himself with

13:39

sick offense and yes, man. You

13:42

know? So like it actually encourages

13:45

me that he

13:49

values my advice

13:52

even though we don't agree on

13:54

certain issues. Yep. And

13:56

there are others in the, in the close circle

13:58

that are, that are similar. And

14:01

maybe someday an issue will come up that's so important

14:03

to me that I have to part ways that

14:06

could happen. It's

14:08

not that the issues are irrelevant,

14:11

but our society is facing

14:13

changes that are so profound

14:17

that they don't fit into the categories of

14:19

the issues. And we're gonna need

14:22

somebody who can enter into

14:24

that, I call it the fertile

14:26

ground of bewilderment. And

14:30

not too quickly default

14:33

to a simplistic solution that comes from

14:35

old reflexes. Now

14:38

we're in for quite a roller coaster ride,

14:40

we're starting to see signs of it. Yeah,

14:44

it's just ramping up, I mean, that's for sure.

14:46

And so what do you rely on in the

14:49

field of bewilderment? You rely

14:52

on values, right? Like values

14:54

and first principles really are like, to

14:56

me in my mind is what forms a

14:59

foundation, which is

15:01

like honesty, integrity,

15:03

like care, love.

15:05

Those values

15:07

are the things that are actually gonna

15:09

be the only things that are clear in when

15:12

everything gets foggy and you're lost in

15:15

the wilderness, like what do you come back to? If I'm in

15:17

a psychedelic journey and I'm in a fucking

15:19

crazy place where everything up

15:21

is down and left is right and light is dark

15:23

and dark is light and I'm confused,

15:26

I go back to the pillar of like, all right,

15:28

I just have to love my way out of this.

15:31

Just have to love my way out of this, love

15:33

whatever I can love and I'll love my

15:35

way out of this mess. So it's like, it

15:38

pushes me back to like the core

15:40

values. And that's, I think something

15:42

we've never seen in politics is someone

15:44

who

15:45

is like value driven, like

15:47

bound by values rather than issues

15:50

and ideologies and reflexes. And

15:53

I see that in him, I see him as like a person

15:55

of a man of value.

15:57

He's a man who's had humbling. having

16:00

experiences in his life, tragedies

16:04

and that I think have convinced him

16:13

that he's no better than any other

16:16

man. And

16:19

people, like the values you mentioned, pretty

16:22

much everybody says that they have those values.

16:27

So I think it's not so much a matter

16:29

of principle, but rather the life

16:33

experiences that have driven those principles into

16:35

yourselves. Right, as

16:37

no system. Yeah, and yeah,

16:41

I, you know, again, like,

16:48

yeah, I see, I got asked, okay, here's a question

16:50

that I got asked by one of my readers. They're

16:53

like, Charles, you know, so many idealistic

16:55

people,

16:56

they step into the political world and

16:59

they are corrupted. They

17:02

become a creature of the system that they entered

17:04

in order to change.

17:06

What makes you think you're so different?

17:08

And I said, I'm not

17:11

different.

17:13

And if I am able to go into that world

17:15

and not become a creature of that world, it

17:18

will be because of the lifeline that

17:20

connects me to a

17:22

bigger world, a realer world. And

17:25

the people who hold me in a bigger story

17:27

than the one that the world

17:30

of politics and power offers. Right.

17:32

Because that, you know, the world

17:34

of politics and power and money,

17:36

that it's very, very

17:39

intoxicating.

17:40

You know, it has its own logic, it has its own

17:42

vocabulary, it has its own set of

17:44

perceptions. You enter into that world without

17:46

even realizing it, you start to take it on. That's

17:49

why it's so important to

17:51

have,

17:52

so like psychedelics, you've been mentioning psychedelics,

17:55

that's one

17:56

lifeline to connect to a bigger reality.

17:59

Yeah.

17:59

to stay honest. But it's also other

18:02

people. It's accountability, for sure. Because a reality

18:04

is held by a group. It's

18:08

just human nature. Like every

18:10

time I do public speaking,

18:12

and maybe even to some extent in this conversation right now,

18:16

I'm not just transmitting

18:18

information. In everything I say,

18:20

there is always a question.

18:23

The question is, right?

18:25

Am I crazy here? Do you resonate

18:27

with us? And so I look

18:29

at your face. I sense the energy

18:31

in the room. I hear the

18:33

laughter or the tears.

18:36

And that helps

18:39

me more deeply inhabit and

18:44

receive the field of information

18:47

that I am speaking from.

18:49

Because the very definition

18:51

of insanity is to hold a

18:53

reality that's different from everybody else. I'm

18:56

hearing voices, I'm seeing things. Like,

18:59

how do I know what's real? I turn to

19:01

my brother.

19:02

Did you see that? Have you thought that? And

19:05

so that's what I do in my job

19:11

that I had before this. And

19:16

I'm keeping that

19:18

thread alive also

19:21

in order that I can actually stay

19:23

sane and

19:26

not become a creature of the system that I'm entering

19:28

to change. So

19:30

this is, and I think

19:32

that if I have a strong enough tether

19:35

to a bigger reality, then

19:39

instead of becoming its creature,

19:41

it will migrate over

19:43

into the

19:44

consciousness

19:46

and into the mythology, into the story

19:49

that we on the margins have

19:51

been preparing for a long time. And

19:53

that is a rising inhumanity, not

19:55

just

19:57

people in the psychedelic world

19:59

or the... the consciousness world,

20:01

but it's actually creeping in everywhere.

20:04

And like you can have

20:08

easily a situation where every single

20:10

person on the campaign

20:12

has experienced psychedelics

20:15

and other technologies

20:18

of consciousness. Yet

20:21

when they are in the

20:23

logic of a political campaign,

20:25

it's like they forget about all that.

20:27

Like that can happen to anybody. It's not like I'm

20:29

the only guy coming in there

20:32

from a different worldview. So

20:37

in order not to default

20:40

into political thinking

20:42

as it has been

20:46

conceived in the past, it requires

20:48

an effort of will. It requires,

20:51

that's one ingredient. And

20:53

the other ingredient is a community

20:56

and help.

20:58

So I'm like, yeah, I'm not different. I need

21:00

help. And thank you for

21:03

being part of the community that

21:06

will help me stay sane.

21:09

Yeah. Now that's a beautiful point.

21:11

I mean, there's, what are the things that

21:13

hold us accountable

21:15

to our highest timeline and our path?

21:18

You know, like what are the things? Well,

21:21

psychedelic medicine is one of those things

21:23

because I get on the mat and ayahuasca

21:25

ruthlessly shows me every little way

21:28

that I've been a dick to anybody

21:30

in the slightest way by not

21:32

responding and just to somebody's

21:34

inquiry or forgetting about this one thing.

21:37

Or it's just meticulous, you know,

21:39

showing me. And then I come out of it and I have a

21:41

list of to-do's that hopefully gets shorter

21:44

and shorter and has as my life has gone

21:46

on because it's training me in deeper awareness,

21:48

deeper levels of kindness. So that's one

21:51

tool.

21:51

Community is another having real peers.

21:54

And the danger of somebody being in power

21:56

is they create a field of distortion around them where,

21:59

people are afraid to be honest with

22:02

them,

22:02

but you have to find those ways and

22:04

those friends that are really

22:07

comfortable and safe enough to

22:09

know that they can say whatever and they're not gonna be kicked

22:12

out of the circle or they're not gonna be outcast

22:14

from your kingdom, so to speak, even if you have,

22:17

you may have a great kingdom, so people wanna stay in,

22:19

but

22:19

just that they trust, they

22:23

can share

22:24

whatever they feel and you can share with them, like

22:26

that's essential. And then

22:28

some connection to a higher

22:30

power, whether that's just capital and nature,

22:34

and then the natural world. I heard

22:36

an amazing story from one

22:39

of Bobby's sons from Finn about

22:41

one of his favorite moments of his dad,

22:44

and his dad was up in his study,

22:46

up in his library, and he was laying down on the

22:48

couch and apparently

22:50

he's not the strongest technophile

22:53

he

22:55

doesn't have, but he has one app that he really loves.

22:57

It's like iNature where you can take pictures of different

23:00

insects and creatures and then catalog

23:02

them and then he keeps score of how many creatures that

23:04

you've seen by going on walks

23:06

and hikes. And he was just cracking

23:08

up laughing because it's a community in there.

23:11

And somebody was trying to say that this

23:13

picture they had was a green beetle, and

23:16

Bobby was like, clearly that's not a

23:18

green beetle, that's a this and this beetle,

23:20

and he's just cracking up and he brings his son in to

23:22

show

23:23

him. And it was just, it

23:25

was so endearing. It's such a simple little story,

23:27

but it shows like

23:29

it's somebody who actually

23:31

is connected to the field,

23:33

connected to the field of the environment,

23:35

connected to the field of all life, like

23:38

different life forms, even the little beetles,

23:40

he's paying enough attention, and

23:42

attention is like, it's care, it's like

23:44

they matter. You know, like I really feel

23:46

like he would be bummed out if the green

23:48

beetle didn't exist, even though it's just a beetle,

23:51

let alone all the magnificent creatures

23:53

that everybody cares about. But

23:55

he's like, it's those things

23:57

where it feels like he's connected to a higher

23:59

source. And he's comfortable calling that source

24:01

God, I am as well. Of course, we each

24:03

have to require our own redefinition

24:06

based on thousands of years of church

24:08

dogma, but God or a

24:10

higher power source or nature. And

24:12

I think those three things are really

24:15

necessary to kind of

24:18

help you manage the perils and

24:20

pitfalls and seduction of

24:22

power. And it, to

24:24

me, it feels like he has an environment

24:28

and around him and nature about

24:30

him that checks all three of those boxes.

24:32

Like he's willing to be friends. He's willing

24:34

to have brothers who can, and brothers

24:36

that'll tell him the truth.

24:38

He's

24:40

connected to, he may not have,

24:42

he doesn't have the psychedelic connection, but he's

24:44

connected to that higher power. And

24:47

I think even without the

24:50

psychedelic connection, there's a kind of almost

24:54

self analysis and almost like ability

24:56

for him to look and see, did

25:00

I do this according to my own ethics

25:02

and code? And he just uses his

25:04

own meditative contemplative practice.

25:07

I prefer

25:10

to use psychedelic methodologies, but

25:12

he's been on a different path and a different program,

25:15

but it's beautiful. But

25:16

it's like the self review, the community

25:18

review, and then the higher power that you have

25:20

some kind of access to. And

25:23

that I think is why I believe that he

25:25

won't be corrupted by power,

25:27

and he won't be seduced into being

25:29

something

25:30

that we've seen over and over again. It's

25:33

just that he's got the ballast, he's

25:35

got the protection.

25:38

Yeah, it's not all or nothing

25:41

being corrupted by power. I mean, I can

25:43

say that you and I are both corrupted by power

25:46

on a more subtle, like on a subtle level,

25:48

or maybe not so subtle. But

25:51

it's like part of

25:53

the corruption of power is

25:56

our perception

25:59

of... who and what is

26:01

important and who and what is

26:03

not. So in

26:05

the political world, you know, the

26:08

pressure to conform to conventional

26:10

views of power and importance is almost irresistible.

26:13

Like somebody has

26:15

a million followers, well, they're important.

26:18

Someone has a billion dollars, well, they're important

26:20

because they're going to bring people to my campaign,

26:22

they're gonna bring money to my campaign, they can do this for

26:24

me. Whereas a

26:27

typical voter who

26:30

might be, you know, an Uber driver

26:32

or a daycare worker

26:34

or a home health care worker

26:37

who makes $12 an hour and

26:40

has, you know, very small

26:42

following on social media, they're not considered important.

26:45

And on a spiritual

26:48

level, we maybe understand the importance

26:50

of everybody. Yeah. And

26:52

that, and intuitively

26:54

sense another matrix of causality

26:58

that does not

27:00

depend on the things that we see

27:03

conventionally as important and powerful. But

27:07

to bridge that knowledge into the

27:09

political

27:09

realm

27:12

is very difficult. Yeah.

27:15

And it requires, when

27:18

the mind is very much steeped in

27:21

that

27:23

understanding of cause and effect of

27:25

power in order

27:27

to do something else,

27:28

you have to listen to something besides the mind.

27:31

You have to listen to your instincts. You

27:33

know, you have to listen to your gut.

27:35

And I've seen them do that

27:38

sometimes and maybe

27:40

not others, you know. And

27:43

I mean, I noticed myself too, like, you know,

27:45

like if I'm invited onto

27:48

your podcast, which has, I don't know how many

27:51

viewers, but a lot, you know, or

27:53

somebody who's just, hey, I'm just starting a new podcast,

27:55

you know, I have 50 downloads,

27:58

you know. Right.

28:00

You know, I'm probably like, honestly,

28:02

you know, I'm probably going to be on yours. Yeah. Although

28:06

sometimes I just get this feeling. Yeah.

28:09

And I just don't care.

28:11

Right. How many followers you have, you know, and

28:13

honestly, I'm not really on this because you have a lot of followers,

28:15

you know, we have a, you know. Yeah, no,

28:18

I think it's a beautiful point. And it's important,

28:20

I think

28:21

the part of the resistance to seduction

28:24

by power is to acknowledge the seduction

28:26

of power that's already in existence. And

28:29

I wasn't intuitive to think

28:31

about it, but of course. And also

28:34

the falsity of the logic of power

28:37

because it is not actually

28:39

true. And

28:43

people do extraordinary things

28:46

by trusting their instincts.

28:48

Yeah. And they follow this path that you could

28:50

not possibly map out in advance. And

28:52

it just turns out that this person who

28:55

looked like,

28:56

you know, an inconsequential

28:59

daycare worker turns out to be connected

29:01

to just the person you had to meet, you

29:03

know, and you walk this invisible path

29:07

to achieve things

29:09

that are beyond the capacity of a plan.

29:14

Yeah. Because a plan depends on what you

29:16

can predict. It depends on what

29:19

you already know about how the world works.

29:22

And one thing that we're learning in these times is that,

29:25

I mean, it's coming up in a lot

29:28

of ways. I

29:30

was thinking of the whole UFO thing, you know, what we're

29:32

learning. I won't get to that. Yeah. I

29:34

mean, what we're learning is that there's an awful

29:36

lot more to reality than we've been told. And

29:38

that more than we've been telling ourselves. And

29:40

there's, I mean, you can't live

29:43

in a world where you've seen synchronicities

29:46

and coincidences quote

29:47

so many times. And

29:50

this is one of the topics that you love

29:53

talking about, you know, going to a festival

29:55

is like a, going to a synchronicity

29:58

machine, basically, where you're opening yourself to.

29:59

of the universe, Burning Man or something like that. But

30:02

you don't know who anybody is and you're in the dust

30:04

and you just bump into somebody and it's like, holy shit.

30:06

And then this connection happens. It's where I met

30:08

my wife through a series of crazy coincidences

30:11

that she happened to be in my camp and all

30:14

kinds of wild things happen.

30:16

And so it's

30:17

both using strategy

30:20

and having a plan and acknowledging

30:22

that that's necessary. And also listening

30:24

for the whisper, the whisper that comes from an

30:26

intuition that

30:28

I listened to, when I'm looking

30:30

at my DMs on Instagram, you know,

30:32

like lots of people say like, I

30:34

know you'll never respond to this, but blah, blah, blah.

30:36

And a lot of times they're right.

30:38

But every once in a while, there'll be that one person

30:41

where I'll write them 300 words

30:43

or something in response. Yeah,

30:45

I do that too. And they'll carry on a dialogue and they'll be like, wow.

30:48

And I don't know why. It's just like that

30:51

maybe it was something I felt and

30:54

same with other people in other situations, you

30:56

know, where usually it's like,

30:58

someone tries to talk to me on a plane

31:00

and I'll be like, I gotta get into

31:02

this thing. And then sometimes I'll

31:04

have this feeling.

31:06

And it doesn't always pan out into

31:08

something that I noticed, but

31:10

I'm always trying to listen to that. And

31:12

I think that's kind of the best we can do is

31:14

to have our plan and have our prioritization

31:17

and have our, cause we have to be

31:19

able to utilize our time, which

31:21

is in scarcity to somewhat, you can

31:23

expand and contract it slightly based on your

31:25

energy attention, focus, et cetera, but time

31:28

is marching on. Yeah, it's not about not having a plan,

31:31

you know? I mean, sometimes your

31:33

intuition says,

31:35

make a plan and

31:36

execute it. Yeah, totally. It's

31:38

just like,

31:41

if you get addicted to a plan and

31:45

when

31:46

your instinct tells you now is the

31:48

time to let go,

31:50

but you're uncomfortable with that. So you make a plan anyway

31:52

and

31:53

follow the plan and it becomes

31:55

an obstacle to

31:57

walking the invisible path. Then

31:59

that habit.

31:59

becomes an impediment. Yeah.

32:02

But yeah. Yeah, there's a, you know, I can

32:04

just imagine that there'll be those choices

32:07

that'll come up in the campaign. It'll be like, all

32:09

right, go to this city, you know, cause this

32:12

is the highest concentration of voters and

32:15

he'll have a feeling like, you know, I want to go

32:17

to the res in South Dakota. Like

32:19

I just, I want to go there, you know,

32:22

and he'll hear a whisper or something. I'm just making this

32:24

up. Yeah. You know what I mean? But like

32:26

not a lot of politicians are spending a lot of time on the res,

32:28

cause there's not a lot of high concentration of

32:30

voters in the Dakotas, right? Right.

32:32

But maybe he'll just have that like, nah,

32:35

instead of New York, like I'm going to go, I'm

32:37

going to go here. And I believe he's like,

32:39

I just believe that about him. You know, it's the

32:41

same thing about the green beetle.

32:43

Like most people just care about like, I saw

32:46

the eagle or the tiger or the like,

32:48

but he's interested

32:50

in like the complexity

32:52

and the dynamics of life, just like his

32:55

father was, you know, I mean, I think there was a beautiful

32:57

video that was just put out and just showed his father doing

32:59

something similar, like

33:01

really being of the

33:03

people, of all people, you know?

33:06

Yeah, you know, I mean,

33:08

there definitely is that, that

33:10

part of him,

33:12

you know, that does that. And, you

33:15

know, then there's, you know, he's

33:17

also, you know, a person

33:19

of this world and of his time, you

33:22

know, and very much now, you know,

33:24

in the world

33:27

of electoral politics.

33:30

He's got it, he's got it. And I'm

33:32

just wondering, like, you know,

33:34

I mean, I'm just one of the people, you know, who influences

33:36

him. And while you were talking

33:38

like, yeah, I'd really like to like

33:41

help and support him, do more of that, you know, listen

33:43

to that more. Well, how can I do that when there's

33:46

so many other voices and so many other

33:48

pressures, you know, and his schedule, you know,

33:50

and this media and that media, and can

33:53

you do an interview here and interview there and

33:55

fundraisers and all that? Like, how am I

33:57

going to bring that? And

33:59

I, I realized that

34:01

actually I have to do the same thing. Yeah.

34:05

But then that brings up like, okay, you know, my

34:07

default sometimes is to

34:10

hang back, to wait to be invited,

34:12

to wait to be asked, not to speak

34:14

up, you know, not to assert myself. And,

34:20

you know, like,

34:22

is that because,

34:24

yeah, sometimes it's because it

34:26

doesn't serve to

34:29

push, but sometimes

34:31

maybe it's because I'm

34:33

afraid to push, you know? So

34:36

that's one thing that I've been looking

34:39

at in my work. You

34:44

know, when do I trust

34:47

the flow of life that puts me at the right

34:49

place at the right time?

34:51

And when do I make shit happen? This

34:53

reminds me of, I don't think we talked about this on a podcast.

34:56

I think I just read your essay, I Like to Fight.

34:58

You know, is that- Yeah, I don't know if we talked about

35:00

it in the podcast or not. I don't think we did. I think we

35:02

just talked about it. Yeah. And it

35:04

just says on a phone call or something. So you went to

35:06

Sacred Sons and you got to put on the boxing gloves. Yeah.

35:09

And you realized like,

35:10

you know, there was a fight in you that, you

35:12

know, maybe you'd been holding back a little bit. And actually

35:15

when you got into it, you was like, yeah, I like

35:17

to fight. And it seems like one of those things,

35:19

like you said yes to Sacred Sons, and you got to

35:22

feel the feeling of what sacred combat

35:24

with brothers who loved each other and were competing

35:26

in this way to actually make each other better, allow

35:29

something to emerge. Yeah. A

35:31

beautiful process. We do it in fit for service with kendo

35:33

sticks, just so there's no, you know, damage

35:35

to the head or whatever. So it's the same idea, right?

35:37

So,

35:38

and this is, there's

35:40

a part of this campaign that's

35:42

a fight. And that's one thing about, also about Bobby

35:45

too, is like, he's a fucking, he's a fighter.

35:47

He's a fighter, yeah. You know, he's willing to stand

35:49

against

35:50

all of, and take all of the

35:53

arrows and all of the shots and

35:55

have people throwing all the rocks at him. And

35:58

he's willing to stand and fight.

35:59

and this campaign is a fight.

36:01

I mean, everybody,

36:04

I mean, I've taken them, they're coming out and making

36:06

a stand. Every time I make a post,

36:08

there's a volley of arrows and

36:11

attacks, but also overwhelming

36:13

support too. I mean, I've been actually,

36:16

I was expecting more. I

36:18

was like, here it comes. It's gonna be like,

36:21

it's gonna be like Darius and it's gonna be like

36:23

my arrows will blot out the sun or

36:25

whatever, and I'll, well, we'll fight in

36:27

the shade. But actually it's been like,

36:29

oh, it's pretty sunny. Oh, here's an arrow. Here's

36:32

the thing. Yeah, and even the,

36:34

you know, I mean, I was expecting

36:38

uniform hostility and derision

36:40

from the mainstream media and

36:43

it has not been uniform. Like

36:46

there have been some outlets that, you

36:48

know, I mean, they interviewed him,

36:50

they

36:50

asked tough questions, they played hard ball,

36:53

but they weren't like completely

36:55

scurrilous.

36:58

You know, they were at least, they gave

37:00

him a hearing. They said some

37:02

nice things about them. You know, I

37:05

think that there is, like it's a mistake

37:07

to see any

37:08

institution as monolithic. That

37:11

kind of us versus them thinking that paints the

37:13

world in black and white terms and says,

37:15

well, okay, you know, the CIA, they're evil. You know,

37:17

the World Economic Forum, that's evil. Like

37:19

this whole habit of dividing the world into good and evil

37:23

is a form of fundamentalism

37:25

that is at the root of the incredibly

37:29

destructive polarization that is ripping apart

37:31

society. That habit

37:34

of how do I understand something

37:37

divided into the good and the bad? That

37:40

mental habit

37:42

is tearing our society apart.

37:45

And so I like to

37:47

hold space for redemption, for

37:53

transformation. No, to

37:56

like, yeah, somebody, instead

37:58

of saying, oh, well, you're a,

37:59

a shill for Big Pharma

38:02

and the defense industry and et cetera. And

38:05

to say that is what you are,

38:07

even in my mind, it

38:10

basically denies

38:13

any possibility of transformation. And

38:17

the story that we hold about somebody is powerful.

38:20

You know that as a leader. If you hold

38:22

a story that somebody can

38:24

transcend their circumstances,

38:26

that somebody can win a victory, that somebody

38:29

can overcome their

38:30

illness,

38:32

and you're there for them. And when they

38:34

say, no, I can't do it,

38:36

you say, no, you can. I've

38:38

seen it. I know you can. That's powerful.

38:40

Super powerful. A negative story is just

38:42

as powerful. To say you can't,

38:45

you're helpless, you'll never heal, you'll

38:48

never transform, you'll never win.

38:50

And that is what is a normal story

38:52

to hold about our opponents, to

38:55

hold about whole countries.

38:57

You know, it doesn't mean being blind

39:00

to

39:00

the damage that people are causing

39:03

and the terrible things that they're doing

39:06

and the negative motivations that they may have. But

39:09

it's not to limit them to that. Yeah, it's

39:11

not to reduce who they are to the actions.

39:14

It's to disambiguate

39:16

the two things and also see, really,

39:19

the place of the unconditionality of love has

39:21

been something I've been able to deepen and explore.

39:24

And it's to see somebody

39:26

all the way down to the source and see

39:28

that there's a light and there's like a static electricity

39:31

that's moving and it's pushing them. Sometimes

39:34

it's bending into darker impulses. And

39:37

there's forces that are kind of pulling and

39:39

pushing us all different ways. And

39:41

like one of those

39:44

Tesla coils that are shooting out just static

39:46

electricity, sometimes it's leading

39:48

towards pretty gnarly things and destruction. Sometimes

39:51

it's leading towards beauty. But at the core of the Tesla

39:53

coil,

39:54

at the nucleus, is the source

39:56

that we all carry and we all share. And

39:59

for whatever reason,

40:00

the affect of the way the electricity

40:02

is going, their personality, their actions is moving

40:04

in another way. But if you trace it all the way

40:07

back, you'll trace it back to a core source.

40:09

And

40:10

that's the source of redemption

40:12

in this kind of unconditionality of love, as

40:14

well as the discretion to say, hey, your

40:16

electricity, it's

40:18

destroying a bunch of the environment,

40:20

it's destroying a bunch of people's sovereignty. You're

40:23

colonizing human bodies for your own

40:25

profit and your own greed. Like, that's

40:27

not cool.

40:28

But there's another way, there's

40:30

an opportunity for redemption and I see it.

40:33

And I see that path for you, no matter

40:35

what you've done, and no matter, it's

40:37

kind of reversing this sunk cost fallacy

40:40

methodology. Well, I've already been this way, like, no, it's okay.

40:43

You can be forgiven and

40:45

actually change course and say,

40:47

you know what, I was under a strange delusion and

40:51

I caused a lot of harm.

40:52

And I see that now and shift. And

40:55

if we don't hold that story about people,

40:57

it's not possible. There's no chance.

40:59

Yeah. If we don't hold that story, then the only

41:01

chance is that

41:03

good overcomes evil and pitched battle.

41:05

Yeah. But you know, evil is better

41:08

at battle. The only way that it

41:11

changes is if some of whom

41:14

we considered evil,

41:19

stop doing what they're doing. Or

41:21

they stop doing it so efficiently because

41:24

they have doubts.

41:25

And maybe they still go to work

41:27

in their

41:28

corporate office

41:31

but they start to go through the motions instead

41:34

of to really aggressively develop

41:37

new lithium mines. You

41:40

know, they're just not efficient anymore. They're

41:43

halfhearted in their advocacy of the

41:45

policies.

41:46

Maybe they don't have the courage to step out and say,

41:48

no, this is wrong. But there's something

41:51

stirring within them, a protest.

41:54

Even to

41:56

a certain extent, addiction, depression, mental

42:00

illness is a form of protest. It

42:03

says that your being is not unified in its

42:05

expression.

42:08

Some

42:11

part of me does not want to do

42:13

what the rest of me is doing.

42:15

So that can manifest as procrastination.

42:19

A lot of what we see is a problem where the illness

42:21

is actually health seeking to express

42:24

itself. Yeah.

42:25

And so I think that that's a much more

42:27

realistic formula for change

42:30

that people have a change

42:33

of heart. And then the

42:35

question is, okay, how do we create conditions for

42:37

a change of heart? Yeah. One of the

42:39

things you pointed out, I was obviously

42:41

a

42:42

massive fan of Avatar One.

42:44

Yeah. And you actually pointed out, you're like,

42:47

yeah, but it's telling a story that's actually

42:49

not helpful. And the story is that the animals

42:52

are gonna come together and the people with the bows are gonna

42:54

come together and they're gonna defeat the destruction

42:57

bomb machines by some

42:59

act of AWOL. They're gonna defeat the machine guns with their spears.

43:02

Yeah, right? Like this romanticized

43:05

idea of good overcoming evil in

43:07

pitched battle from sheer, and

43:09

it's a beautiful thing like the warrior spirit

43:12

and the connection to AWOL. There's a lot of beauty in that as

43:14

well and heroism and romanticism. But

43:16

I actually saw

43:17

that and I was like, yeah, you're right. You know, it's actually

43:19

telling the wrong story. And then I watched Avatar

43:22

Two. I don't know, did you see Avatar Two? No, I was

43:24

forewarned. But they just fucking

43:26

doubled down on

43:29

that same mentality. I was like, man, what a miss.

43:32

Yeah. What a miss, what a miss that they couldn't

43:34

convince the whalers

43:35

that these beautiful creatures that they were

43:37

whaling were like, were as

43:40

sentient and magical and important as they were.

43:42

And like, instead they had to

43:44

sink the ships and slaughter the people. Yeah.

43:49

It's just not- Yeah, the film just encourages us to think

43:51

the problem is these horrible people. Right.

43:54

What happens when that is applied to foreign

43:56

policy? War. War.

44:00

and the whole

44:02

machinery and agenda of war. That's

44:05

like the spiritual and philosophical

44:07

basis for the neocon

44:09

long game of first destabilizing

44:13

and destroying Iran,

44:16

then Russia, then China.

44:18

I mean, they wrote about these

44:20

plans 30 years ago and have been executing

44:23

it step by step, not with a lot of success,

44:25

but

44:26

you know. That hasn't stopped them from trying. It

44:28

hasn't stopped them from trying. And I mean,

44:30

it could escalate into

44:33

nuclear conflict.

44:37

And that in their, like I can understand

44:39

it from their view,

44:42

it's what I just described, to understand

44:44

a situation, first identify

44:47

who's the evil

44:48

and who's the good.

44:50

Once you've started with that,

44:52

okay, you're always the good, right? You're never

44:54

evil. So it's whoever

44:57

stands in the way of your domination, they're

45:00

evil, because your domination

45:02

is good, because you're the good guy. So

45:04

the more power you have, the better for everybody.

45:06

Yeah, probably as everybody thinks they're the good guy. Well,

45:09

everybody does, yeah. So

45:11

that mindset

45:12

leads inevitably to polarization.

45:15

And that mindset ultimately

45:17

comes from

45:19

a faulty view of the human being, which

45:22

is in Christianity in the form of original

45:24

sin, that

45:25

you are fundamentally evil.

45:27

It's in biology in

45:29

the idea of a selfish gene that, at

45:31

bottom, everybody is just seeking to maximize

45:34

their reproductive self-interest. It's

45:36

woven deep into the meta-religion

45:39

of our time, which encompasses

45:42

what we call religion, as well as science.

45:44

It's a very deep mindset. It's the mindset

45:47

of conquest. And so everything

45:49

we're seeing in global affairs

45:52

today and in domestic politics,

45:55

this widening division and intensifying

45:57

polarization, all comes from...

46:00

what

46:00

you might call a spiritual error

46:02

or a spiritual

46:06

journey that we've taken into separation.

46:09

And so when you ask like, what does

46:12

a Kennedy administration look like?

46:16

For it to even happen, or for

46:18

it to be anything that I would support, it

46:21

has to tap into this transition

46:23

into a story where

46:25

we no longer hold each other in that

46:28

way. It's just what we were talking

46:30

about, to see something else

46:33

and to be able to stand in that

46:36

on behalf of our fellows

46:39

and to receive their holding

46:41

of us because it is

46:44

so insidious. You

46:47

know, like I don't

46:48

know if you've had these moments

46:50

where like I look at the

46:53

choices I made in life

46:55

and it seems like every single

46:57

one of them was selfish.

46:59

Maybe I was pretending to be loving

47:02

and generous and something, but I was actually

47:04

on some level calculating what's in it for me.

47:07

And when I'm in that mindset,

47:10

it seems so inarguably

47:13

true.

47:16

And I'm just like,

47:18

wow,

47:20

I'm like the most evil human

47:22

being in the world and too

47:24

cowardly to actually commit acts

47:26

of murder and mayhem, like

47:28

real psychopaths. So I'm like evil

47:31

and a coward at the same time. And it becomes

47:33

this totalizing reality that

47:37

usually it's only when an act of love pierces

47:40

that.

47:42

And when somebody sees my beauty

47:46

and my love,

47:47

then it reminds me, it

47:49

ignites my own

47:51

knowledge that I too am a divine

47:53

being. That's what we have to

47:55

do for each other. And I don't think that

47:58

anything less.

48:00

then this kind of revolution

48:02

will be enough

48:04

to motivate a new politics. Yeah,

48:07

these are these principles, which

48:09

is also why I was so excited to

48:12

have you in the close inner

48:14

circle with Bobby, because these

48:16

are the principles that are part of the new story,

48:19

which is the more beautiful world. The more beautiful world is

48:21

the new story.

48:22

It's a new story about a new human and a new humanity.

48:24

As my teacher Mark Gaffney always

48:26

says, a new story about a new human and a new humanity.

48:30

That's the more beautiful world. The

48:33

grasp that you have

48:35

and many of us feel in

48:37

our own body and understand in our own way

48:40

is so important, because it isn't about

48:43

just politics and these things. It isn't about

48:45

like, oh, I'm dovish,

48:48

I'm anti-war. No, it's actually

48:50

understanding the fundamental cause,

48:52

like the desire for war, where people

48:55

are coming from, what they're feeling, where

48:57

they're not feeling safe,

48:59

what their ideals are, and then actually

49:01

making decisions based upon a new

49:04

fundamental set of beliefs.

49:06

And that has to come in. And as you said,

49:08

it has to rise.

49:09

It has to rise as a movement of consciousness.

49:12

And so it's one of the reasons why people say like,

49:14

I can't believe you're getting

49:16

into politics. Don't you know politics doesn't matter.

49:19

This is all just like a fucking farce. It's all

49:21

a game. Like it only matters. Like

49:24

you guys are wildly underestimating

49:27

what it would be like to have a leader

49:29

who is telling a narrative of a new story,

49:31

just like you wildly underestimate

49:34

the importance of a movie like Avatar

49:36

if it made a different choice and told a different

49:38

story.

49:39

Like telling a different story,

49:41

from a platform where everybody

49:43

listens, they can't censor a State

49:45

of the Union address. And he delivers

49:47

these speeches that really land

49:50

and they hit somewhere and some people. That

49:53

changes the world in and of itself. And that's why

49:55

even in that reality, in that

49:57

timeline where he doesn't win, but he gets

49:59

it.

49:59

in there and he's giving speeches and people

50:02

are listening, like the story is

50:04

shifting. Yeah. The story is changing.

50:07

So it's not a binary win-loss. Well, if he doesn't

50:09

win, we've failed. Every step he takes,

50:11

every speech that he gives, every message

50:14

that he transmits from the bigger platforms

50:17

that he transmits, the better and closer

50:19

we are to this new story that

50:23

we're all trying to build.

50:25

You know, I just went on this little fantasy about like

50:27

a totally different kind of state of the union

50:30

address, where it's not about

50:32

economic statistics and policies,

50:35

but he's like, I'm

50:39

going to convey the state of the union through

50:42

eight stories that I

50:44

have gathered for ordinary people. Yeah.

50:46

You know, one of them is a farmer

50:48

who just went bankrupt

50:50

in Kansas. Yeah. One of them

50:53

is a grandmother from

50:55

Watts, whose

50:58

son

50:59

just got beaten up by the police

51:01

and is in prison.

51:03

Another, like, you know, eight stories

51:05

like that. One

51:08

is a CEO of a large

51:10

company whose daughter

51:13

just went to rehab for the third time. Yeah.

51:16

You know, like that might

51:18

convey the actual state of the union

51:21

better than any

51:22

statistics or metrics.

51:25

Yeah. These stories, I mean, the stories

51:27

are powerful and someone who's living,

51:30

living is the embodiment of a new story

51:33

and then sharing the stories

51:35

is, I think people

51:37

wildly underestimate the power of that

51:40

and the power of like power

51:42

of, because we're really, we're all

51:44

a living, we're all a living story. We're

51:46

our own hero's tale, you

51:49

know, of like what we've overcome

51:51

and the challenges that we face and how we've lived

51:54

and how we've stood. And

51:56

these stories being conveyed embodied,

51:59

you

51:59

know. really mean a lot.

52:03

And yes, there's gonna be

52:05

political decisions and there's gonna be bills

52:07

and there's gonna be executive orders

52:09

and there's gonna be all of this stuff, but to have somebody

52:12

embodying a new story and

52:14

a new story of hope, because that's one thing you talked

52:16

about. You wrote another beautiful essay about when

52:19

kind of hope really died in a

52:21

certain way, when JFK was

52:23

killed. And I forget the title of that essay,

52:25

but it was like this moment where it was like,

52:27

oh shit, like the story

52:29

changed, but this could rewrite

52:32

that story. Yeah,

52:34

so

52:37

everything that I'm saying here, I'm describing

52:39

the highest possibility

52:42

of a Kennedy presidency.

52:48

It may be fulfilled 100%.

52:51

He may get elected and fulfill it 50%.

52:53

Or, you know,

52:55

I mean, he's a sovereign

52:57

being. He might make choices that are

53:00

profoundly disappointing

53:02

and he fulfills

53:04

it 0%. But I

53:06

do see the possibility

53:09

of a radical healing

53:16

of the trauma that America

53:18

suffered

53:19

on November 22nd, 1963.

53:22

And the reconnection of

53:24

the present to a past timeline

53:26

that was truncated at that

53:29

moment, because, you know, 1963,

53:32

America was at the peak of

53:35

its power, something like

53:37

nearly half of all industrial production in the world

53:40

is happening in this country. We

53:42

had limitless wealth. We

53:45

had some problems, but

53:48

the civil rights movement was underway.

53:51

The women's rights movement was

53:53

underway. Like we

53:55

were gonna fix those problems.

53:59

And we were going to fix those problems. going to

54:01

unwind American militarism.

54:04

JFK wanted to

54:07

get out of Vietnam. He wanted to support

54:11

revolutionary movements around the world to throw

54:13

off the yoke of colonialism. He didn't want

54:15

to just take over the British empire. He wanted

54:17

to disband it.

54:19

And he wanted to loosen the grip of

54:21

the military industrial complex. And all the

54:23

alphabet agencies too. All that stuff, you know. And

54:26

he was assassinated. And that

54:28

timeline got cut short. He entered Vietnam

54:31

and the forever wars ever since.

54:33

And all of that money, and

54:35

all of that effort, and

54:38

all of that attention that could have gone toward healing

54:41

our problems

54:43

was directed toward violence.

54:45

And the core of our

54:47

society began rotting out from the inside

54:50

to

54:51

the point where most people

54:53

today say

54:55

that they are worse off than their parents were.

54:58

And even their grandparents.

55:02

In 1963, that was impossible

55:04

to conceive. Just as it

55:06

was impossible to conceive that the government would ever

55:08

lie to us. So

55:11

JFK got assassinated and the root

55:14

of the poison

55:15

was that we swallowed

55:17

the lie

55:19

that it was a lone gunman, a crazed

55:22

gunman. Yeah.

55:23

When you accept a lie that deep down

55:25

you know is a lie, it

55:28

poisons everything. And

55:30

the result is that we now swim in

55:32

an ocean of lies. Where

55:36

it's not only, it's

55:41

unremarkable. Like no one even bats

55:43

an eyelid when the government

55:45

lies to us. It's routine. Even,

55:48

you know, and this is coming out as like,

55:50

you know, obviously during the pandemic,

55:53

you know, both of us were vocal from our

55:55

own perspective about the things that we saw

55:57

that we just

55:59

didn't. that didn't make sense to us. Things

56:02

that were said, things that were done, things

56:05

that were, and as every new thing

56:07

comes out, I just recently, yesterday

56:09

saw something where the, maybe

56:13

former current FDA administrator was like,

56:16

yeah, the six feet of social distancing thing, that

56:18

was completely arbitrary. We just made that shit up. You

56:20

know what I mean? And like that should

56:23

sing around the world and people

56:26

should be like,

56:27

how fucking dare they? But

56:30

actually we've swallowed so many lies. It's like,

56:32

yeah, whatever. Yeah,

56:34

that was just another one. And as each one of these

56:36

new things comes out, people

56:38

are like, eh,

56:40

you know, it's almost like this complacency

56:42

and hopelessness that's part of swallowing

56:44

that lie. It's just this feeling

56:46

like it'll never be different. It'll never

56:48

be better. And that's exactly what

56:51

that force of empire wants. They

56:54

want us to be disempowered. They want us to be hopeless.

56:56

They want the lies that they tell not to

56:58

be mattered and not to rile us up

57:00

and not to have us go, how fucking dare

57:03

you? You know, like how dare you?

57:06

Right, and to say that because they

57:08

don't, the maintenance of the

57:10

status quo does not actually depend on people

57:13

believing the lies. Yeah. The

57:15

lies still work even if nobody believes them.

57:18

All that is necessary is for

57:20

it to look like everybody believes them.

57:24

It's the emperor's new clothes.

57:27

Every single person saw that

57:28

he actually had no clothes

57:31

and privately considered that

57:33

fact, but did

57:35

not dare speak out because anyone who spoke out

57:37

would be accused of being a fool.

57:40

At the very least, I mean, a fool is

57:42

a euphemism for the things that were lobbed at

57:44

us for talking. Yeah, I mean, it would just,

57:46

yeah, I mean, you speak out on certain

57:48

things that destroy your career. Right.

57:50

I mean, this is

57:52

same thing with UFOs. Like

57:55

numerous innumerable scientists

57:57

and citizens who spoke

57:59

out. whistleblowers,

58:02

their careers were destroyed.

58:04

And the government said,

58:06

this is a hoax,

58:08

this is a conspiracy

58:10

theory,

58:11

all the while knowing

58:13

that these reports were genuine.

58:16

Yeah. So now it's

58:19

come out like credible whistleblowers,

58:23

Navy

58:26

reports and stuff like that.

58:28

But none of these people have been rehabilitated.

58:31

Yeah. Yeah,

58:35

there's no, like, there's no, you know, recompensation

58:39

for what they've lost or even an acknowledgement

58:41

like, hey, sorry about that dishonorable

58:44

discharge for that

58:46

report that you shared because you just couldn't help

58:48

it. And the reputations, the reputations of people who

58:51

question Iraqi weapons of mass destruction,

58:54

who questioned COVID lockdowns,

58:56

who questioned UFOs, whatever it is,

59:00

when they are proven right,

59:01

their reputation does not recover.

59:04

Right. They still carry the air

59:06

of disrepute

59:08

because what they proved is that they are

59:10

not a team player.

59:11

They proved that they're different, they're

59:13

the weird kid. So the

59:16

people who stay in positions

59:18

of power

59:19

are the ones who propagated the lies.

59:22

They still have the

59:24

credibility. And again, it's

59:26

like not that they actually have credibility,

59:29

nobody actually respects the

59:33

talking heads

59:34

on CNN.

59:35

Not in the way like when I was a kid, like

59:37

we respected Walter Cronkite, you

59:39

know, like he had real credibility, maybe

59:42

not deservedly,

59:44

but people actually trusted him,

59:46

not anymore. And

59:48

this is like

59:50

the public participation in the

59:52

pretense that allows the pretense

59:54

to be maintained.

59:56

You mentioned the UFOs and we wanted

59:58

to get there anyway.

59:59

we might as well take that and discuss it. Because

1:00:04

again, I was talking to my good friend

1:00:06

who runs a PR agency, he's always looking at

1:00:09

media news. And actually

1:00:11

he wasn't by any stretch of the imagination

1:00:13

an anti-vaxxer,

1:00:16

but he understands how policy

1:00:19

is put through media

1:00:21

when it's bullshit. And he just, he has

1:00:23

a sense for that. He has a sense for spin. He

1:00:26

has a sense for when they actually don't have the facts

1:00:28

to back it up. And so he saw

1:00:30

how it was actually being

1:00:32

disseminated. He's like,

1:00:34

I don't know anything about the science. I don't

1:00:36

know anything about mRNA. And actually

1:00:38

I think, everything I've known says

1:00:41

vaccines are great. However, he

1:00:43

could sense that there was some bullshit in

1:00:46

the matrix. And so he steered

1:00:48

clear of it and is grateful that he did

1:00:50

just because he had that sense. And

1:00:53

what he was saying to me yesterday, interestingly,

1:00:56

is that what he's tracking in the media is

1:00:58

that

1:00:59

there's a preparation that's

1:01:02

happening. And what he's feeling is like, there's a preparation

1:01:04

for disclosure,

1:01:06

that actually things are coming out softly.

1:01:09

And in a way that's just kind of warming

1:01:11

up the field

1:01:12

for an imminent

1:01:14

disclosure, like a proper full-on

1:01:17

disclosure acknowledgement, but in a way where

1:01:19

it's not gonna be so shocking and surprising

1:01:22

anymore, because they've kind of, they've kind

1:01:24

of actually warmed the field up. Yeah,

1:01:26

I don't think it's that deliberate. I think there's

1:01:29

something very mysterious going on here.

1:01:32

Our UFOs had to

1:01:35

be on the sidelines of reality

1:01:40

for a long time, because as

1:01:43

a society, we had not yet

1:01:45

come to a place where we could accept

1:01:47

this extreme

1:01:50

disruption of our dominant paradigms.

1:01:52

The behavior of UFOs simply does not

1:01:55

fit into...

1:02:01

standard physics.

1:02:05

And also the loss of our idea of

1:02:07

our own

1:02:09

primacy,

1:02:13

we were not

1:02:15

ready for that.

1:02:16

So they had to stay

1:02:18

in the realm of fiction. And you can't

1:02:20

really fully understand the UFO phenomenon

1:02:26

if you're too attached to objective reality.

1:02:29

The rational mind would like to think

1:02:32

that independent of

1:02:33

our beliefs and perceptions, there's a fact of the matter. Either

1:02:36

that UFO landed and abducted that person

1:02:40

at point

1:02:41

X comma Y comma Z on the map at time T,

1:02:45

or it did not. Either there is a secret

1:02:47

program to reverse engineer captured

1:02:50

alien craft, in the dark ops of

1:02:52

the Pentagon, or there isn't.

1:02:57

But

1:02:59

that objectivist worldview is actually

1:03:04

nonsense

1:03:06

in quantum mechanics, where you say, well, regardless

1:03:09

of our measurement of that particle,

1:03:12

either it was or it was not at that slit rather

1:03:15

than the other slit. No, it's not. It's not.

1:03:17

It's not. It's not. It's not at that slit

1:03:19

rather than the other slit. No, wrong.

1:03:24

And philosophically,

1:03:26

we've consigned such weirdness

1:03:28

to the microcosm, but

1:03:32

it at least suggests another way

1:03:34

of looking at things, where the

1:03:37

factualness

1:03:39

of UFOs is connected

1:03:41

to our own consciousness.

1:03:43

And that as our consciousness evolves,

1:03:47

the ETs become

1:03:49

more and more able to penetrate into consensus

1:03:52

reality. So,

1:03:55

and we see this change now,

1:03:57

the percentage of Americans who profuse.

1:04:00

to believe in the extraterrestrial

1:04:02

origin of UFOs has gone

1:04:05

up considerably in the last five years.

1:04:07

It used to be like 40%, you know, five or 10 years ago.

1:04:11

And now it's like 60% or something like that.

1:04:14

So the field

1:04:17

of acceptance, this is not

1:04:18

just that

1:04:20

more evidence has come in.

1:04:22

This is because, and it's not because people

1:04:24

are being,

1:04:25

in my view, expertly manipulated

1:04:28

by deliberate slow leak of

1:04:30

information. It's because the

1:04:33

field of consciousness has come to a point

1:04:35

where that information is erupting

1:04:39

through the cracks.

1:04:41

Like people have been

1:04:43

whistleblowing and credible

1:04:45

people have been speaking out about it for a long time,

1:04:47

but they weren't believed. People weren't ready

1:04:50

to believe them, or they would

1:04:52

believe them, but compartmentalize that belief

1:04:55

because their dominant reality

1:04:58

was unable to

1:05:00

accommodate that

1:05:03

information.

1:05:04

And we see this all the time. Like you can have a

1:05:07

religious experience. You can

1:05:10

experience a miracle. You can witness an

1:05:12

incredible healing. You can witness it. You

1:05:14

can see a UFO. Yeah.

1:05:20

You know, here, Maladoma Somay talked about initiation

1:05:24

rituals among the daguerre,

1:05:27

and described things that

1:05:29

are so far outside of our

1:05:32

conventional beliefs about what's possible, that

1:05:34

it's

1:05:35

jaw-dropping and you believe him.

1:05:39

You don't think he's making it up. When

1:05:42

he's, you should listen

1:05:44

to the audio book, which is

1:05:46

him actually telling the story

1:05:48

of water in the spirit, it's called.

1:05:50

And

1:05:52

in that moment, you know that he is speaking the truth.

1:05:55

But to see if you haven't had the

1:05:57

experience directly. But

1:06:00

many of us have had experiences

1:06:02

directly that are flagrantly in violation

1:06:05

of everything we were told is real. Right.

1:06:07

But even secondhand, what do you do with that

1:06:09

information? When you go back to

1:06:11

work, it just doesn't fit

1:06:14

into the structures

1:06:16

that we live in and into the social

1:06:18

structures, into the belief structures.

1:06:21

So we put it in the margins.

1:06:23

Today, those structures

1:06:25

are dissolving. And

1:06:28

that allows this

1:06:30

new information to

1:06:32

penetrate deeper into

1:06:34

the collective mind and deeper into

1:06:36

our own minds.

1:06:38

And once we accept that reality,

1:06:40

everything changes. Yeah.

1:06:44

I wanna break in the conversation for a moment to

1:06:46

talk about something that's really meaningful to me.

1:06:49

Ultimately, you don't have to be a rapturist,

1:06:51

as Jamie Weil would call it, or some kind of

1:06:54

doomsday prepper to have a sense that

1:06:56

we're entering unprecedented times. And

1:06:58

these unprecedented times will

1:07:01

demand more from us than

1:07:03

we've formerly

1:07:04

been called forth to give.

1:07:08

There's going to be a demand for us to show

1:07:10

up in a way

1:07:11

that we've never had to show up before.

1:07:14

And the way that you

1:07:16

prepare to show up

1:07:18

and give something that you didn't even know you

1:07:20

had inside yourself

1:07:22

is to practice. It's how every

1:07:25

high level military operator,

1:07:27

how every Navy SEAL prepares

1:07:29

to execute at the level they execute. It's

1:07:31

how every great athlete

1:07:34

prepares to operate and perform

1:07:37

your practice. So

1:07:39

how do you practice for

1:07:42

dealing with challenging circumstances,

1:07:44

dealing with whatever the world has to throw

1:07:46

at you, dealing with the hardships and difficulties?

1:07:49

Well, this technology has been

1:07:51

around for thousands of years. It's been

1:07:53

around since tribes developed

1:07:57

as part of the human species.

1:08:00

And it's through initiation, initiations

1:08:03

that include things like the

1:08:05

sweat lodge, where you

1:08:07

have to feel what your response

1:08:10

is to the heat and the darkness

1:08:13

and the thirst.

1:08:14

It's how you respond in competition.

1:08:17

It's how you respond when you breathe

1:08:20

to a place where all of your somatic,

1:08:23

repressed feelings

1:08:25

come to the surface.

1:08:27

It's how free you can allow

1:08:29

your body to speak through dance

1:08:32

and ecstatic dance. It's all of these

1:08:34

initiatory practices

1:08:36

that actually prepare you to give your

1:08:38

best at a time when the world needs it the most.

1:08:41

And that's what we're offering in the upcoming

1:08:43

Fit for Service program.

1:08:44

We have an amazing set

1:08:47

of initiations on July

1:08:49

29th weekend.

1:08:51

And Waira is gonna be there. You might know her from

1:08:53

my podcast. She's gonna be leading sweat. We'll

1:08:55

be delving in this sacred competition.

1:08:58

We'll be

1:08:59

breathing. We'll be dancing.

1:09:01

We'll be doing all of the initiatory rituals

1:09:03

to help us prepare. And also

1:09:06

building that community, the resilience

1:09:08

of the community, knowing that our

1:09:10

strength comes from the bonds that we create

1:09:13

and going through initiations together creates

1:09:16

the strongest bonds that you could possibly

1:09:18

imagine. So it's a beautiful opportunity

1:09:21

to find a squad,

1:09:24

a team, a group of people that

1:09:26

can help support you in your own

1:09:29

individual life mission and also

1:09:31

allow you to be called forward to

1:09:34

a higher purpose. That

1:09:36

understanding of how your song

1:09:39

is chapter and verse in the

1:09:41

song of the whole cosmos

1:09:43

and how

1:09:45

without your song and without you able

1:09:47

to fully express it,

1:09:49

the whole orchestra, the whole symphony

1:09:51

would be incomplete.

1:09:53

So that's what we're offering with Fit for Service.

1:09:55

There's also the most incredible

1:09:57

summit of the year, always is our Sedona

1:09:59

Summit.

1:09:59

So you'll get access to that, all of

1:10:02

the amazing speakers and musicians

1:10:04

and the whole program.

1:10:06

But if you're called to this and you're inspired by

1:10:08

the messages that Charles and I are sharing and

1:10:11

you just have a little trust that there's something

1:10:13

more that's inside you that's possible, I

1:10:16

encourage you guys to check it out. Go to

1:10:18

fitforservice.com

1:10:21

and check it out and see if you're called.

1:10:24

I look forward to seeing you guys on the inside.

1:10:26

I had an interview with Dean Radin and

1:10:29

he's really spent his life studying

1:10:32

the science of magic.

1:10:33

And he talked about

1:10:35

giving a lecture to a group of

1:10:37

physicists and it was about

1:10:40

magic. Now collectively, publicly,

1:10:42

they all are like, ah, this is all bullshit.

1:10:45

You know, this isn't real. Newtonian

1:10:47

physics all the way. There's nothing that, there's

1:10:49

no field, there's no, you know,

1:10:52

collective consciousness or some

1:10:55

Sheldrakeian morphic resonance field. It's all

1:10:57

bullshit. But then he, you

1:10:59

know, privately asked them, okay, so

1:11:01

I understand, I understand, I understand you're

1:11:04

official, but

1:11:06

in your own life, how many of

1:11:08

you have experienced something

1:11:10

that defied what this consensus

1:11:12

reality is?

1:11:14

People got a little shifty

1:11:15

and all the hands just started to quietly

1:11:17

raise that they'd each experienced

1:11:20

something in their life that they couldn't fucking explain.

1:11:23

Yeah. But the consensus reality was

1:11:25

something far different. And I think it speaks

1:11:27

to this

1:11:29

collective belief field. The only

1:11:31

area that I would want to kind of like

1:11:33

explore deeper is, is I've had

1:11:35

experiences with alien crafts. I've had

1:11:38

them mostly on psychedelics. I haven't seen

1:11:40

any in my sober waking conscious,

1:11:42

any of those experiences, but I was recently

1:11:44

in the

1:11:45

Temple of Osiris and,

1:11:48

you know,

1:11:49

there was a guidance

1:11:51

from an Egyptian priestess who was saying there's a craft

1:11:53

that's going to come and we're in

1:11:55

the dark of the Holy of Holies in the temple.

1:11:58

And sure enough, this fucking craft.

1:11:59

comes in my consciousness and I step inside

1:12:02

and I get given this gift where I'm

1:12:04

like, able to like, my third

1:12:06

eye just pops open and I'm able to see

1:12:09

realities into existence. It was a crazy

1:12:11

experience. And

1:12:14

so those were like this extra dimensional,

1:12:17

extraterrestrial kind of ET,

1:12:19

kind of phenomenon, like extra dimensional. Yeah. And

1:12:22

that to me is like, is certain. Now

1:12:25

where it gets, where the question for me comes is

1:12:27

like,

1:12:28

all right, did something physical

1:12:30

and has something physical

1:12:33

been crashing and interacting

1:12:35

in places? Or is it,

1:12:38

has it not been physical? Has

1:12:40

it just been extra dimensional? And like, what are

1:12:42

the, what are the boundary lines that blur

1:12:45

between the physical and extra dimensional? Cause

1:12:47

I'm a hundred percent all in on the extra dimensional,

1:12:49

extra, you know, conscious beings for sure.

1:12:52

Yeah. I've been there, seen it, you know, done

1:12:54

end of story. But like, can they actually

1:12:56

crash in the desert and

1:12:58

make a divot? You know what I mean? Like, can they like

1:13:01

crash in the sand and make a divot? And I

1:13:03

think it's likely both,

1:13:05

that there's both, but there is some kind

1:13:07

of objective reality to

1:13:09

the physicality of something that could crash

1:13:11

and break apart and you could hold pieces and

1:13:14

somebody in a black suit could come and say, give me that fucking

1:13:16

piece back. Or your

1:13:18

family are going to be evaporated. Right.

1:13:21

So, okay.

1:13:23

So say for sake of argument that a craft

1:13:25

crashed and made a divot in the desert and

1:13:27

you know, scattered pieces and

1:13:30

someone picks them up and the men in black come

1:13:32

and take it away.

1:13:34

How do you know that that actually happened?

1:13:38

Somebody told you that it happened. Somebody

1:13:42

had an experience that they shared with you. That

1:13:46

the very

1:13:49

fact that that report came to you

1:13:52

means that this event

1:13:54

is intruding into

1:13:56

what you're calling objective reality. Right.

1:14:00

Just like what I was saying before, like when I speak,

1:14:03

I'm also asking for corroboration.

1:14:06

Did you see that? That's what makes it

1:14:08

real. Right.

1:14:14

Sanity is a group project. I

1:14:17

remember you saying that in a speech. Yeah, yeah.

1:14:19

Actually I wanted to talk about, I launched

1:14:21

a online program called the Sanity Project. Cool.

1:14:24

That I was maybe gonna mention.

1:14:33

I'll just detour into that.

1:14:35

The

1:14:39

idea being that sanity requires

1:14:41

that you pull in all of the information, not

1:14:43

just part of it,

1:14:45

and integrate it all.

1:14:46

So a lot of people fall into despair

1:14:49

when they take in the hopelessness

1:14:51

of our

1:14:53

situation. And it

1:14:56

is in fact hopeless

1:14:58

if you don't incorporate what we're calling

1:15:01

miracles. Yeah. There's

1:15:02

just no

1:15:03

way. Including the miracle of the transformation

1:15:05

of the heart. Right. The miracle of a change

1:15:07

of heart. You know, that's

1:15:08

one of the miracles.

1:15:10

When somebody, they're not forced to change, they sacrifice

1:15:13

their career, they sacrifice their

1:15:16

safety, they

1:15:18

sacrifice their reputation out

1:15:20

of love. That is a miracle.

1:15:22

That is a miracle.

1:15:24

Because if you're in the mindset of

1:15:27

making somebody do something,

1:15:29

you will never make them do that.

1:15:32

Because what does making mean? You

1:15:35

know, it means you're exerting some kind of pressure. And

1:15:38

you're back to Newtonian physics. And you're

1:15:40

limited by the amount of force at your disposal. And

1:15:42

the bad guys always have more. Because self-interest,

1:15:45

selfishness is on their side.

1:15:47

So it takes a miracle. It could

1:15:50

be the miracle of the heart. It

1:15:52

could be a social miracle. It could be

1:15:54

a material, physical miracle. A

1:15:56

miracle of healing. That's the only hope.

1:15:59

So when we...

1:15:59

glued that from our picture

1:16:02

of reality. We are actually

1:16:04

insane. Or very,

1:16:07

very sad. And I've met some of those people who've

1:16:09

run all the algorithms. They figured

1:16:11

it out, it's all doomsday. Every algorithm

1:16:14

runs into... Do their algorithms include

1:16:16

extraterrestrial

1:16:16

intervention? Do

1:16:19

they include... Yeah, or

1:16:21

massive spiritual awakening at a

1:16:23

level that transcends what we believe

1:16:26

is possible. Or shamans who can manifest

1:16:28

seedlings in their hand. Or

1:16:30

all the stuff that Maladoma Somi talks

1:16:32

about.

1:16:34

I mean, there's so much. I mean, you've read all these books.

1:16:38

Do their algorithms take that

1:16:40

into account? Nope, they can't. They

1:16:43

can't, right? So

1:16:46

that's a form of insanity. And the symptom of

1:16:48

that form of insanity is depression

1:16:50

and despair.

1:16:52

And there are many other forms of insanity. If

1:16:54

you keep out all of the bad stuff

1:16:56

and only focus on the miracles, that

1:16:59

becomes another form of insanity. Right,

1:17:01

which is purely Pollyannish. Yeah.

1:17:04

Like, God's gonna take care of it all. We don't have

1:17:06

to worry about a thing. Yeah,

1:17:09

so anyway.

1:17:10

So

1:17:13

reality is held in community.

1:17:17

It's held through relationship. So

1:17:23

in order to hold a bigger reality

1:17:25

that includes the pieces that have been missing,

1:17:29

which is everything

1:17:32

from ecosystem destruction and the horrors

1:17:35

that have been perpetrated on this earth to the most

1:17:37

sublime miracles. To hold that

1:17:39

bigger reality, we

1:17:41

have to have ways to

1:17:44

look at each other and say, do

1:17:47

you see that?

1:17:48

Is that real?

1:17:49

Yes. Then we hold that bigger

1:17:51

reality together. That's what the sanity project

1:17:54

is about. And so when,

1:17:57

so okay, to take it back to UFOs.

1:17:59

say, like you say, well, there's this secret

1:18:02

unit inside of another

1:18:04

slightly less secret unit inside of

1:18:07

the Pentagon operating on area 51.

1:18:10

And you want to like prove this.

1:18:12

How do you do that? Well,

1:18:15

okay, here's some whistleblower stepping forward, but

1:18:19

his records have been erased

1:18:22

from the military's records, you know, like,

1:18:24

how do you know that he is what he says he is?

1:18:27

How do you ever pin it down?

1:18:32

Ultimately, you're,

1:18:34

you're, you cannot escape from

1:18:37

the realm of communication

1:18:39

with each other and

1:18:41

the group holding of a belief.

1:18:44

And when you understand that, then

1:18:46

you can understand some of the weird behavior

1:18:49

of extraterrestrial craft and

1:18:51

extraterrestrial beings and missing

1:18:54

time and the

1:18:57

sharp right angles that they execute in the sky

1:19:00

in complete defiance of

1:19:02

Newtonian kinetics. Right.

1:19:04

Like they, in some sense, they are

1:19:06

not

1:19:07

in objective reality as we know

1:19:09

it. Right.

1:19:10

And, and we will never

1:19:13

accept them. They will never become

1:19:16

real as long

1:19:18

as we don't transcend

1:19:21

the mythology,

1:19:23

the Cartesian Newtonian mythology

1:19:25

that we have inherited the mythology of modernity.

1:19:28

Because there is no room in that reality

1:19:30

for them.

1:19:32

And as I said before, that reality is breaking down.

1:19:34

So it's, it's almost like as in a way,

1:19:37

the emergence of Kennedy as

1:19:39

president

1:19:40

and the emergence of UFOs are both

1:19:43

dependent upon the evolution of the field.

1:19:45

Yeah. In certain ways. Yeah,

1:19:48

potentially. And again, like

1:19:50

Kennedy as president, which Kennedy is

1:19:52

it going to be?

1:19:53

Is it going to be

1:19:54

his highest and best possible

1:19:56

expression?

1:19:58

That really depends on

1:20:00

Everybody. Yeah.

1:20:03

Because each one of us contributes to

1:20:06

the field

1:20:08

that co-resonates with

1:20:10

who this person is

1:20:12

in objective reality, i.e.

1:20:15

in our experience, in his

1:20:17

intersection with ourselves. So

1:20:20

if we prepare the ground by,

1:20:22

for example, by expecting

1:20:24

and demanding the kind of authenticity

1:20:27

you were speaking of earlier. Yeah.

1:20:29

And the kind of humility,

1:20:31

then it becomes possible. Yeah.

1:20:35

And if we hold a story of cynicism,

1:20:39

then we're not making space for that to even happen.

1:20:42

And we will get at best a diluted version

1:20:45

of what a Kennedy presidency could be.

1:20:47

Right. It's not up to him. Yeah.

1:20:49

Yeah. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's,

1:20:52

there's so many people who desperately

1:20:55

want to have hope and

1:20:58

desperately want to believe. And the

1:21:00

people who actually, it seems to me, and

1:21:03

I also kind of feel like you might've written

1:21:05

about this too, and might be informing my ideas,

1:21:07

and I can't exactly place it, but it's

1:21:10

this feeling of those

1:21:12

who want to believe and want to hope the most

1:21:15

are the most scared of it, because

1:21:17

they're the most capable of being

1:21:19

let down the hardest. And

1:21:21

so when I see those people saying, there's no hope,

1:21:24

there's no chance, what I see is someone

1:21:26

who's just desperate to hope, who wants

1:21:28

to hope more than anybody else. Because they've

1:21:30

been disappointed and betrayed. Exactly. And

1:21:33

their natural spirit, they've been, they felt

1:21:35

the pain of that disappointment and betrayal.

1:21:37

Maybe it was with Obama, or

1:21:39

maybe it was with Bernie, or maybe it was

1:21:42

something out of politics or whatever, but they've been hurt

1:21:44

and they've been wounded. So like, I am never

1:21:46

gonna fucking hope again. Listen

1:21:48

to Dante's, with the wisdom above

1:21:51

the inferno, abandon hope all you who enter,

1:21:53

like that's how I stay safe. And

1:21:55

it's this kind of like fear of hope. And

1:21:57

I've, you know, really like the message.

1:21:59

that's kind of formulated through me is like,

1:22:02

no, like dare to hope, like have the

1:22:04

courage to hope again. And

1:22:06

even if that hope gets dashed, and even

1:22:08

if we say, you know, I'm all in and I believe

1:22:11

this man, I believe all of this and you do too,

1:22:13

and our hope gets dashed, the next

1:22:15

time there's another one, we show up and

1:22:17

we fucking hope again, because it's the only hope

1:22:19

we got is to just to be

1:22:21

willing to put ourselves up for

1:22:23

the crucifixion of our hope

1:22:26

being dashed once again, it's like love. And

1:22:28

if you get burned in love again, show up and

1:22:30

just fucking love again. Hope

1:22:32

is actually also an aspect of sanity,

1:22:35

because we

1:22:37

can distinguish between authentic

1:22:41

hope and wishful

1:22:44

thinking.

1:22:46

Authentic hope is a premonition

1:22:51

of a possibility, of

1:22:53

a real possibility. The

1:22:56

mind might not recognize the possibility,

1:22:59

might not

1:23:01

see the path from

1:23:03

here to there. But

1:23:06

you sense that there is a path.

1:23:08

So hope is basically, you

1:23:12

know, to accept that,

1:23:14

and to trust your perception

1:23:16

and not gaslight yourself

1:23:19

by telling yourself that what you

1:23:21

actually know is false. That's

1:23:24

what cynicism does. Yeah. It's

1:23:27

a form of self gaslighting. This

1:23:29

is another part of the sanity project. But

1:23:32

then to distinguish, what is

1:23:34

an authentic premonition of a possibility

1:23:37

that involves me? Because

1:23:39

possible doesn't mean, well, you

1:23:42

know, if you flip a coin 10 times,

1:23:45

you could get 10 heads, it's possible. That's

1:23:48

not what I'm talking about. Possibility

1:23:50

means that there is a role for me to play

1:23:52

in making it happen. And that if I play that

1:23:54

role, it will happen.

1:23:56

It's up to my choices. Right. That's

1:23:58

what I mean by possibility. So,

1:24:01

we have an innate orientation

1:24:03

toward

1:24:04

that.

1:24:06

We can recognize when something's possible.

1:24:09

And then cynicism says, no, no, no, it's not possible.

1:24:13

And then there's also wishful thinking,

1:24:14

which is to pretend that something is

1:24:17

possible when it is not. Right. Or

1:24:19

usually it's to pretend that

1:24:21

something is possible without

1:24:24

my choice and my consciousness being

1:24:26

involved in it. Yeah. That's

1:24:27

wishful thinking.

1:24:29

One of the things that happens on that path is,

1:24:32

if you're listening, there'll be some

1:24:34

interesting synchronistic confirmation

1:24:36

of really feels like God source

1:24:39

the universe, the Weaver, whatever, wok-un-tank,

1:24:41

I don't care, whatever you wanna call it, but there's like a wink. There's

1:24:44

a wink from the universe. And I'm actually

1:24:46

gonna pull something up. This is

1:24:48

actually a text that

1:24:50

I sent to Bobby.

1:24:51

And this was the wink for me that

1:24:57

that was really like confirmed

1:24:59

that this vision that I saw

1:25:02

was actually

1:25:04

possible. So we finished the podcast. And again, I go

1:25:06

into this journey and I see,

1:25:08

I see him winning the presidency. I just

1:25:11

fucking saw it. And

1:25:13

I saw how powerful

1:25:15

that could be, for all of us, for

1:25:17

our consciousness, for the world, for our country, for

1:25:20

people, for the story. I just could feel

1:25:22

it all and see it all. It just played

1:25:24

out in front of me.

1:25:26

So I sent him a message. I said, this is

1:25:28

Wednesday,

1:25:29

March 15th.

1:25:31

I know this is gonna sound wild, but after

1:25:34

you and Aaron left, so I was there with Aaron Rodgers,

1:25:36

who was hanging in and listening in on the podcast.

1:25:39

I tapped into my connection with God slash source,

1:25:42

which is my way through the medicine. That's

1:25:44

my pathway, my bridge.

1:25:46

And got an unbelievably clear message that

1:25:48

if you run for president, you will win. Cause he was still

1:25:50

debating at that point. He was thinking he was gonna run.

1:25:54

You will win.

1:25:55

And then if you choose to run, I am

1:25:57

to do everything in my power to support you

1:25:59

in that.

1:25:59

campaign with all the resources, allies,

1:26:02

and intention that I can possibly muster.

1:26:04

So consider this a pledge of my word and

1:26:07

my sword whenever

1:26:08

it begins. And I put a little sword

1:26:10

emoji. I said, I really enjoyed sharing time

1:26:13

today and having that podcast.

1:26:15

Have a beautiful night.

1:26:17

And he texted me back. He goes,

1:26:18

funny period. Today

1:26:20

for unknown reasons, this phrase

1:26:23

came into my head. Give me a sword

1:26:25

and

1:26:26

some ground to stand on and we will

1:26:28

take back our country.

1:26:29

Thanks for an amazing day, Hal Brie.

1:26:36

Because I could be crazy, right? That

1:26:38

could be crazy. Everybody thinks it's crazy. Like

1:26:41

when I said that he's going to be president, it was like no fucking

1:26:43

way.

1:26:44

The consensus reality around

1:26:46

me was like, it's crazy. But

1:26:48

instead of actually the people around me

1:26:50

saying and keeping

1:26:53

me sane, there was like a wink from the universe at

1:26:55

this early stage where I just, I

1:26:57

don't always say, I've never said to somebody,

1:26:59

I give you my sword. It's a very

1:27:01

old thing to say. I

1:27:04

have swords, but I don't use them. That's

1:27:09

not a thing I would normally say, but I

1:27:11

said that thing. And then

1:27:13

he said that that phrase came to his

1:27:16

mind and it was just like this wink from the universe.

1:27:19

And I was like, you're on the right track, brother.

1:27:22

And those things mean a lot

1:27:24

when you're listening.

1:27:30

Yeah. These new realities

1:27:34

that are held in community, they

1:27:36

don't originate in community. They

1:27:40

originate in

1:27:42

the way that you described, from

1:27:45

the outside, from source, from God.

1:27:49

And in

1:27:57

the commitment of community.

1:28:01

and the sacrifice for that

1:28:04

possibility, the

1:28:09

continued participation of God is summoned.

1:28:16

That's the only way that it's possible. Yeah.

1:28:21

When you say he's gonna be president,

1:28:23

that was actually not a prediction,

1:28:26

it was a prophecy. The difference

1:28:28

being that a prediction removes

1:28:31

ourselves as agents.

1:28:34

And it says, well, I've calculated all of the variables

1:28:37

and my prediction. Right, right, right. But prophecy

1:28:40

includes oneself. Right.

1:28:42

And fully recognizes the

1:28:44

power

1:28:45

that we have as participants in

1:28:48

creation.

1:28:51

So when you say you will be president,

1:28:54

what you're actually saying is,

1:28:58

bow into service to this

1:29:01

authentic possibility, which is not my

1:29:03

wishful thinking. Right. I know that

1:29:05

there is a path.

1:29:05

Right. Maybe I don't know what it is. Right.

1:29:08

But I feel the same, Aubrey, I wouldn't

1:29:10

be doing this on

1:29:12

a lark. Yeah.

1:29:22

Yeah, I'm making a lot of sacrifices to do

1:29:24

it. And I don't know

1:29:26

what your story is with your political

1:29:29

activism, but I'll

1:29:31

be dead honest. I've never voted

1:29:34

once in my life. Not a

1:29:36

single time. Not a local vote, not

1:29:38

a presidential vote. I've never voted.

1:29:41

Now I've aligned with some, you know,

1:29:43

like I kind of reposted some Joe Jorgensen

1:29:45

stuff, you know, from the libertarian

1:29:47

candidate. And I've been a couple of things that

1:29:49

I guess sounds pretty cool. I was actually pretty

1:29:52

stoked when Obama won. I was like, this fucking

1:29:54

seems like a guy, he's a baller, you know, he's got a

1:29:56

good crossover. I don't know,

1:29:58

I just, I liked him. Yeah.

1:30:00

But like, I've never, I didn't vote,

1:30:02

you know, like I wasn't moved enough to do that.

1:30:05

And so a lot of people are like,

1:30:07

what the fuck, man? Like you've never

1:30:09

talked about politics.

1:30:11

You've never cared or been anything

1:30:13

involved in it. And people ask me that question

1:30:15

all the time. And it's like, yeah, you're right.

1:30:17

Now I've never, I have never. And

1:30:20

this is something different.

1:30:22

And this has moved me into action.

1:30:24

That's actually a

1:30:26

completely different path than

1:30:28

my whole life has taken to this point. You know,

1:30:30

I'm gonna have to figure out what you gotta do to register to vote.

1:30:33

You know, I'm not even registered. You

1:30:35

know, and then am I gonna, I

1:30:38

guess I register as a Democrat because I want to vote

1:30:40

in the primary. I guess that's how it has to

1:30:42

work. I'm just gonna have to think so, depending on the state. Yeah,

1:30:45

so I guess I, and would have like,

1:30:47

if someone said, someone said Aubrey

1:30:49

in 2020, 2023, you're gonna

1:30:51

register as a Democrat. I'd be like, get the

1:30:53

fuck out of here. You're

1:30:56

fucking insane.

1:30:58

But yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. You

1:31:00

know, and it's not because

1:31:03

of, and it's again, there's something about Bobby

1:31:06

that also transcends and confuses

1:31:08

the polarization of blue and red, of

1:31:10

Republican and Democrat.

1:31:12

And I think the media is

1:31:14

starting to figure this out. It's like, who is

1:31:16

he? Like, what

1:31:18

is this? And it's exactly that

1:31:20

idea, I think, you know, one

1:31:22

of the main campaign slogans that

1:31:24

I've seen is heal the divide. We heal

1:31:26

the divide by actually erasing, not

1:31:29

erasing, but kind of blurring the lines

1:31:31

that have created the divide in the fucking first place.

1:31:34

Well, it's what we've been talking about here. It

1:31:36

goes down to the way that we see the human being.

1:31:40

And practically speaking in the campaign,

1:31:43

what we're doing is

1:31:45

looking at polarizing issues

1:31:47

and asking what are the

1:31:49

assumptions that both sides share?

1:31:52

What

1:31:52

are the common values that are not being said?

1:31:54

What are the questions nobody's asking?

1:31:57

Because a lot of times in this, I get.

1:32:00

always

1:32:01

often a bit

1:32:02

tweaked when somebody,

1:32:05

sometimes I help respond to press inquiries and stuff like that.

1:32:08

And they're like, well, what's your position on

1:32:10

this, that, or the other thing?

1:32:12

But

1:32:12

by even answering that question,

1:32:14

you're accepting the terms that the question is asked

1:32:17

in. And to resolve

1:32:20

most of these decades long tug of

1:32:23

wars

1:32:25

where both sides exert tremendous effort

1:32:27

and the marker moves a tiny bit

1:32:30

left, right, left, right, and nothing

1:32:32

ever changes.

1:32:33

We have to ask completely different questions.

1:32:36

And use completely different language. Use different

1:32:38

language. Like even the, you talk about abortion,

1:32:41

right? And it's pro-life or

1:32:43

pro-choice. Well, life and choice are both

1:32:45

values that all of us hold sacred.

1:32:47

So by merely naming it, then

1:32:50

all of the sudden, it's very confusing

1:32:52

because both sides have a claim on their value.

1:32:55

Yeah, and there's deeply shared, almost

1:32:59

universal

1:33:00

moral agreements. Like

1:33:02

almost nobody relishes

1:33:05

the thought of forcing women to

1:33:08

undergo pregnancies they don't want.

1:33:10

Almost nobody relishes the thought of abortions

1:33:15

and dead fetuses and stuff

1:33:17

like that. I mean, like

1:33:19

most people actually agree,

1:33:21

but we are corralled

1:33:24

into these warring opinion camps that

1:33:29

meet an unmet need for tribe, for

1:33:32

belonging,

1:33:33

for acceptance by a group.

1:33:36

So people wear their

1:33:38

opinions on the prefabricated

1:33:40

issues

1:33:41

as badges of belonging

1:33:44

to a certain opinion tribe.

1:33:46

And it comes from, I mean,

1:33:48

the root is not a simple thing to do

1:33:50

away with because it comes from the dissolving of community

1:33:52

in our culture. It comes from the breakdown

1:33:56

of our guiding myths that tell us who we

1:33:58

are and how to be human.

1:33:59

I mean, the roots of this breakdown

1:34:02

are deep and the polarization

1:34:04

is a symptom of that breakdown. So it doesn't

1:34:06

change overnight. And I think that,

1:34:10

you know,

1:34:14

if Bobby wins the election,

1:34:18

and I'm saying if, not when,

1:34:20

because it is a

1:34:22

choice. And not only

1:34:24

does he win, but what kind of Bobby, which version

1:34:26

of Bobby wins? What does the pregnancy look like?

1:34:29

Okay, but the presidency

1:34:31

looked like, but I'm saying

1:34:33

if he wins,

1:34:34

it's not like things will be radically different in five

1:34:37

years.

1:34:38

In fact, on a superficial level, things

1:34:40

may be worse, but what will

1:34:42

be different is that we will have

1:34:45

a sense that we have turned the corner and

1:34:47

that we've begun the return journey. Yeah.

1:34:50

The return journey. We're back on

1:34:52

the timeline that

1:34:55

was truncated in 1963.

1:34:58

And we're much farther

1:35:01

back than we

1:35:01

were

1:35:03

in the ensuing 60 years

1:35:07

of war and lies.

1:35:10

We have a lot of ground to make up even to get

1:35:12

back to where we were in 1963. No.

1:35:14

But we will feel very different

1:35:17

because we'll be like, it happened.

1:35:19

We hit bottom

1:35:21

and we turned it around. And regardless

1:35:25

of the infrastructure, which

1:35:27

may be worse and the social structure,

1:35:29

which may be worse, there'll be a personal

1:35:31

structuring of our consciousness, which

1:35:33

will be extraordinarily

1:35:35

better.

1:35:40

Because there'll be a sense that like, all

1:35:42

right, like now

1:35:45

we're on the move. And

1:35:47

there'll be a willingness to accept

1:35:50

the challenges that we're facing with

1:35:52

a different mentality. People will have the experience

1:35:55

of having opportunities to

1:35:57

serve that are meaningful.

1:35:59

Yeah. That's what a lot of people are missing.

1:36:01

You know, they have all these ideals,

1:36:04

but

1:36:05

no easy way to express

1:36:07

them

1:36:09

that is economically supported

1:36:11

and socially supported and even available.

1:36:14

That is the most profound change that will happen.

1:36:17

And the profundity of that change

1:36:19

is it goes downstream through the

1:36:21

healing that's available. I just did a podcast

1:36:24

that went through the mythology of Guardians

1:36:26

of the Galaxy. And one of the points that we talked

1:36:28

about was how

1:36:30

each of the Guardians are radically traumatized

1:36:32

beings, you know, parents dying,

1:36:35

family getting killed, being tortured

1:36:37

and having your friends killed if you're talking about Rocket

1:36:40

and then sisters being pitted against each other, radically

1:36:43

traumatized beings. But they all align

1:36:45

themselves to a higher purpose. And

1:36:48

then they're able to act and

1:36:50

through their actions, they're still working through their

1:36:52

trauma. They're still falling and

1:36:54

making mistakes and getting overrun by

1:36:56

anger where Drax, you know, goes

1:36:58

and attacks when he shouldn't attack

1:37:00

and Rocket steals when he shouldn't steal. And

1:37:02

all of these things are happening, but because

1:37:04

they're fixed on this like higher purpose, they're

1:37:07

able to actually work their trauma through rather

1:37:09

than just sitting in therapy in this kind

1:37:12

of impotency where they're just working

1:37:14

and not to shit on therapy

1:37:16

at all. It's all important. But like the

1:37:18

value of purpose, it's, you know, Sebastian

1:37:21

Jungers thesis in Tribe.

1:37:22

It's like when there's a real purpose, you

1:37:25

know, when the bombs were falling on London and the Blitzkrieg,

1:37:27

the mental hospitals emptied

1:37:29

because people weren't crazy

1:37:31

anymore. They had, they were like, I gotta go out there and help

1:37:34

my brothers and sisters. I gotta pick up some bricks. I

1:37:36

gotta deliver bread. I got like, I'm

1:37:38

fucking out of here. Like I'm good.

1:37:41

It's not like they just sent them all out because they couldn't care

1:37:43

for them anymore. They were like, no, actually I'm good. Let

1:37:46

me out there. Let me out there to help.

1:37:48

And I think we really radically underestimate

1:37:51

like that power of purpose.

1:37:53

And then that will sweep through

1:37:55

as the real problems that are exposed

1:37:58

and as vehicles for us to like.

1:38:00

All right, now we can take a stand and it

1:38:02

will matter. Like our lives

1:38:04

will matter again. And

1:38:07

the other way is the

1:38:09

opposite where our lives matter less and less.

1:38:12

Where we have no purpose in

1:38:14

our job,

1:38:15

we have no purpose, we have no agency

1:38:18

in the world. Everything's controlled

1:38:20

by some NWO, some other organization,

1:38:22

it doesn't matter, politics are a sham. Like

1:38:25

that is just a slippery water

1:38:27

slide into depression

1:38:30

and apathy and further psychosis.

1:38:33

And a lot of that is socially constructed. It's

1:38:35

not like

1:38:38

you were saying, you can't just go into therapy

1:38:40

and change all that.

1:38:42

Going into therapy isn't gonna change the economic

1:38:44

incentives. It's

1:38:47

not gonna change the whole

1:38:49

society that channels people into

1:38:51

meaningless work or no work at all.

1:38:55

This is really important that, this

1:38:57

is the shadow side of the self-help

1:38:59

movement.

1:39:06

You're not fully

1:39:10

responsible for the conditions of your life. Like

1:39:13

that can be a very empowering teaching. You

1:39:15

are responsible for the conditions of your life.

1:39:17

It can lift somebody out of victimhood,

1:39:20

but it can also,

1:39:28

feed this kind of self-blame

1:39:31

where something that's not actually

1:39:33

your fault, you take it on as your fault.

1:39:36

And

1:39:38

this is what politics is about.

1:39:40

It recognizes

1:39:43

that

1:39:43

individual consciousness

1:39:44

and

1:39:48

the

1:39:48

system and the stories that surround

1:39:50

us

1:39:51

are mutually resonant,

1:39:55

each creates the other. So,

1:40:01

You know, when the system seems frozen

1:40:03

in place,

1:40:04

maybe the best you can do is

1:40:06

to change yourself, do your own work,

1:40:09

carve out a little niche. Yeah.

1:40:14

But that is not the situation anymore. Yeah.

1:40:17

You know, now we have a chance

1:40:19

to, it's a crossroads. It's

1:40:21

not an inevitability unless

1:40:25

we make it

1:40:26

an inevitability

1:40:28

that the world is going to change,

1:40:30

collapse isn't going to save us, climate

1:40:32

change isn't going to save us,

1:40:35

disclosure isn't going to come from the outside

1:40:37

and save us,

1:40:39

financial collapse isn't going to save us.

1:40:41

Nothing is going to save us from

1:40:43

the outside.

1:40:46

All we are granted from the outside

1:40:49

is a crossroads, a

1:40:52

choice point.

1:40:53

And the choice point

1:40:59

comes in the form of that

1:41:02

feeling, which could be a vision,

1:41:04

but

1:41:05

it's the feeling we've been talking about

1:41:08

that we call hope. And

1:41:12

when there is hope, we

1:41:16

know what to do. Yeah. It's

1:41:18

a vision of the future. Yeah. It's

1:41:21

a vision of the future. So what would you

1:41:23

say for people now

1:41:26

who are listening, they align

1:41:29

with everything we've

1:41:30

mentioned about Bobby, maybe

1:41:32

they're going to do some more research, maybe they already feel

1:41:35

in a similar way and you're a

1:41:38

lot closer to the campaign than I am. And

1:41:40

also, again, I'm politically naive.

1:41:44

I don't understand what is

1:41:46

even possible and what the rule,

1:41:48

I'm starting to learn what the rules are and how

1:41:50

to actually support and how you can't support. And

1:41:53

it's like all gets a whole game in and of

1:41:55

itself. But what do you see as,

1:41:58

and we've talked about a lot.

1:41:59

of the internal processes in the field

1:42:02

and changing the field. But as far as like

1:42:04

actions that people can take,

1:42:06

like what is the, what does his campaign

1:42:08

need or what does Bobby need,

1:42:10

you know, at this point? Yeah, I mean, you

1:42:12

know, like

1:42:14

there's the usual things of,

1:42:17

you know, sign up for the newsletter, volunteer,

1:42:20

you know, make a donation. I

1:42:22

don't think you need me to tell you that. And those things,

1:42:24

those things matter, right? I mean, like you're in there

1:42:26

and like for, I think sometimes

1:42:28

people think like, oh, that doesn't matter. Like,

1:42:31

and we'll get kind of jaded. Yeah.

1:42:35

You know, they're,

1:42:37

in addition to the practicalities of running a

1:42:39

campaign,