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thing is vastly different a

1:00

city policing because you

1:03

know everybody you know

1:05

everybody and you know the impact on them

1:07

and the community as a whole then

1:10

yeah it's tough when you're holding

1:12

her friends body in your it's really

1:14

really tough

1:20

roger eichler is a former country club

1:22

as he served in new south wales police

1:24

from the nineteen ninety

1:28

many others roger eventually lead

1:30

the service on a medical discharge with debilitating

1:33

ptsd roger

1:35

i was written a book about his experience in

1:37

the country copper it's called the price

1:39

of protecting others' and he joined

1:41

today to talk about it

1:47

the very first

1:49

the incident at quite have recorded

1:51

against my name for a ptsd incident

1:53

aboard i was off duty but

1:55

i was doing my

1:57

he will you let you do as a policeman in the

1:59

country

1:59

community in the ozark judy shopping

2:02

with the family in dub i living in davao

2:05

and i saw i am the regular

2:07

kind of else and

2:10

, was a fifteen year old boy and he was stealing

2:12

lollies and he shoved them down his shorts shorts

2:15

opportunity but i had my bed center said like

2:17

you know i on the cop yeah yeah whatever

2:19

fuck off that off though i

2:21

arrested him and took him into the manager's office at

2:23

the woolworth store we did

2:26

yeah the normal process was just like him into the manager's

2:28

office cause he could secure the the customers

2:31

in there any length

2:33

forward on to the managers described the parents

2:35

is managers turn around and stabbing me that

2:37

was the very first incident of recorded

2:40

ptsd that i

2:42

probably had a few incidents before that but

2:45

the nicholson back then back in the old

2:47

days was to just drink all

2:49

that all of the other day

2:51

was is all time of ah belinda

2:53

ah belinda station real i know

2:55

yeah yeah how for yeah but as a country

2:58

kaput it's more for me

3:00

in my experience of seventeen years all

3:02

up as up as personal

3:04

as a country cop and that while read this book

3:07

now because as a country cop you know the people

3:10

know him personally you socialize with them

3:12

all that sort of stuff then

3:14

yeah it's tough when you're holding

3:16

her friends body in your that really

3:19

really tough and because of

3:22

the working and small countries stations your

3:24

wife and your family affect the because i

3:27

live right next door the all the playstation

3:29

is built into your house

3:31

the and he a lot of the stuff and wall

3:33

back in those days while you're right on the on

3:36

the right like as the police officers your boss

3:38

is a one answering the door answering the radio

3:40

answering the phone seeing

3:42

and feeling exactly same stuff she

3:45

ends up with vicarious trauma

3:47

where you are one cop in one cup

3:49

town

3:49

all within several small stations

3:52

mary what was a mans tyson but all

3:54

the lock up paper or in victoria call

3:57

the yeah the watches paper they

3:59

basically take all the after i was cold

4:01

i look up the prisoners after hours away with

4:03

stuff and then i worked in a one man station

4:06

and the worst place was at euston

4:08

which in the far south with the new south wales me

4:10

mill it was was mainstays

4:13

him but side remote over there

4:15

eighty percent of the time by myself

4:17

and i just took a typing out there

4:20

absolutely topic kind

4:22

the two main station on the stood all white

4:25

bitches the main hallway that runs from sydney the headlights

4:28

getting out a bit of six in the morning job

4:30

that six o'clock see cuddling your wife a tempest

4:32

sixty filling for the pulse on somebody on the saw the

4:34

rise

4:35

blood guts the trucks rolled over in

4:37

the and the truck driver standing on his head and hoax

4:39

himself to death and you're trying to get a body out of a truck

4:42

holding a man's face to is scheduled to the helping

4:44

breathe

4:46

then know the doctor shows up from the hospital

4:48

and as a ride saw a tracheotomy no

4:50

and and then you gotta go vitamin unpack

4:52

all this pulling a vietnam

4:55

veteran out of a car that have been dead for five

4:57

days and is covered in maggots in the maggots a pouring

4:59

out the cavities of his face the oh

5:01

and there and wearing his bodily fluids maggots

5:04

why trying to pull email the car

5:06

knowing that he was a vietnam vet in troubled

5:08

with all his ptsd stuff any

5:10

had he took an overdose on the

5:12

medication that was months minted making

5:14

better

5:16

the case where on a fella that

5:19

was melbourne cup tie two thousand one

5:22

and , he was involved in was fight

5:25

as result of that fought he a

5:28

he got the put onto his back thought

5:30

he he humiliated and

5:33

he then jumped into his car and drive off

5:36

felt humiliated as i said and

5:39

then turned around and drive his car through a searing

5:41

quarters

5:42

an innocent person that into

5:44

a trade he was a

5:46

professional farmer and shooter we

5:49

will lead to believe that he had he saw a kangaroo

5:51

rafa with him saw triple to or two to three

5:53

rifle high powered yeah with skype

5:56

no less sort of stuff many ran

5:58

off a searing said i

6:01

had a dead body there and ought to try and track down

6:03

the offend us and or had to go into

6:05

the sheer he said with enough sort of which took

6:07

about hour to get there was

6:09

also and had to go into

6:11

the sharing said wedding from my head to blow off and

6:13

off and shearing shed to see if he was in

6:15

their job hiding from us

6:18

i don't know if you've ever been to a shearing said

6:20

better usually sharing shit the floor

6:22

is made up of one inch wide image

6:25

with a one inch wide gap said

6:27

that all the faces and waste products from the same

6:30

can just fall through underneath the building so

6:32

mom might and all we books were this whole building looking

6:34

for him calling out his name all that sort of stuff we will

6:37

get to the other side the building and the

6:39

same none of a sudden we hear from

6:42

behind us

6:43

you walk out of the top me raj

6:45

we around his all my standing there

6:47

with no rifle he says odd and have a rifle but

6:50

you'd better check my life the other boning

6:52

knife in his book

6:53

no ads in there as can go through a bullet resistant

6:55

versailles for my novel writing to be

6:58

shot and then over suddenly waiting be stabbed

7:01

he basically said roger got me he

7:04

was a nice guy he just did something really

7:06

really dumb

7:07

really really dumb killed an innocent guy

7:09

and he the price he ended up in jail for few years

7:12

old that's what a stop the damage got a lifetime

7:14

of living with the fact that he killed that friend

7:16

and used for eve

7:17

us back to a that you made earlier

7:19

which is that it's personal hayden you your name

7:21

he said

7:22

absolutely awesome i knew him on you colombo

7:24

because we would talk at least once

7:27

a week once a fortnight yeah he said be

7:29

at the front of the pub without vivid szczesny drive

7:31

home or whatever or made him on the farm

7:33

i knew him personally i

7:35

knew him personally i knew him or

7:37

new the victim oh god that's awful

7:40

and then i had to arrest him put him into the back

7:42

of my place truck

7:43

take him into the station and he ended up in jail

7:47

obviously you would have to have done many

7:49

these things that cold

7:52

terribly death knox

7:54

over the u s l williams

7:55

the an an informer they

7:58

loved the has been killed very sick

8:00

and

8:02

yeah

8:03

or i had that incident but only a couple

8:05

weeks before that i had another incident where

8:08

we , i had gentlemen come knocking on the

8:10

door was at work and number he said roger

8:12

which to find oh my job

8:15

it doesn't look too good so we

8:17

had go and try and find all my who was

8:20

always thinking in in the dark world he

8:22

was was a young fellow

8:24

in his mid to late twenties with a voice

8:26

his wife was more was my work

8:28

partner they had two small kids

8:31

then we found all might he had argued

8:33

so fat and the bush just passed is some

8:35

vineyard

8:38

he's right send us basically

8:41

the only well could getting mad of the tree was to hold

8:43

his body against my chest

8:45

reach up with my know asked cut the rope

8:48

lower into the ground because

8:50

was a dead corpse now the ants was starting

8:52

to invite him that while i'm

8:54

waiting for assistance to come with a

8:56

a utility you couldn't get named on in their on sweeping

8:59

the ants often that was

9:01

a couple weeks before that matter with the

9:03

i'm with a fellow with the gun weeks

9:06

after that christmas two thousand two

9:08

thousand i get cold to a scarecrow

9:11

hanging behind the bowling club in used

9:13

the scarecrow into that we

9:15

ended up being a nineteen year old friend

9:17

of mine

9:19

the would hang himself the hanging

9:21

from a tree and his parents were friends of ours

9:24

i had to cut email the trade holding his

9:26

body against mine crying they're

9:28

not to go and tell his parents that their son was

9:30

dead can you please identify him for the coroner's

9:33

break place it was all

9:35

within a lightweight period and at during

9:37

two thousand and six and i knew them all the

9:40

new them or personally

9:42

the effect of the matter is guys i'm guessing

9:44

you guys are in melbourne early this

9:46

week we had two police officers killed

9:48

themselves within three days yeah absolutely

9:51

and the problem is we put people into those

9:53

positions authority and they sort of organizations

9:56

they don't understand that

9:58

oh typing taught

9:59

the prices so much because of the

10:02

position that erin that i just have

10:04

no grasp of to deal with

10:06

it will never change and they do

10:08

something serious about school loss

10:11

i mean because i know that they ah

10:13

they have trying very hard i

10:16

don't think anyone knows what to do i think the trying

10:18

very hard

10:19

was in front of the classes at the academy

10:21

talking to the students and same guys

10:24

done end up like me who are old a

10:26

hyper my mates when you go

10:28

to any these incidents openly talk

10:30

about it so either a partner

10:32

at work work partner at home or

10:35

say killed through a i play or any

10:37

those things something about

10:39

it instead a bottling it up top

10:41

to playful the open about it

10:44

if you don't feel well in the head

10:46

and you can't cope speak

10:48

to a specialist speak to somebody

10:50

the thing is those of us are suffering

10:52

all those of us at a living with his every day

10:55

we need to be able to identify

10:57

ourselves that we have an issue it

10:59

took me a long time the mayor

11:02

have a long time but i've got this bloody wife

11:04

of have and she goes you're

11:06

an idiot said i you're doing this is this

11:08

ah shit sorry oh shit i

11:11

yell am i am i got

11:13

it and that's where i pick up a final

11:15

the moment but whoever

11:17

and go on a double check yeah

11:19

this this be saying and i head libby go

11:22

into many of my to spell

11:24

out exactly what was going on because

11:26

on to sit me down our dialogue here

11:28

what were you physical symptoms such as

11:30

a lot of people with spoken to thy

11:32

talk about the physical manifestation of patria

11:35

states which is before realize

11:37

you know that the young the theory

11:40

i think that a great book called the body takes a score

11:42

it's about how trauma plays out in physical

11:44

symptoms the

11:45

not a heroic taking heaps of

11:48

have i tablets all the time he likes constantly

11:51

sexual , and that sexual

11:53

dysfunction in may was nothing worked worked

11:56

in other over stimulation

11:59

warning

11:59

have sex constantly and this

12:02

is what happens in in some of these

12:04

workplaces why

12:06

don't you and you get me how bout we have

12:08

sex

12:10

with that bonding with i sleep because understand

12:12

each other but also other physical

12:15

symptoms was constant damn got

12:17

issues constant stomach issues

12:20

gastric race lox everything

12:22

going straight through

12:23

constipation anything to do with his stomach

12:26

craving fat salt sugar

12:29

carbohydrates bribing

12:31

booze aiding sweaty

12:33

crap all the time aiding

12:36

teepees gorging on booze

12:38

and booze and food not

12:41

every day but when i had a session on have

12:43

a session it

12:45

wouldn't be hard to knock over half a bottle of rum

12:47

a not and to fix

12:49

it kills a part of the puzzle he

12:52

gotta to people you gotta you gotta

12:54

make other people that are in the same boat

12:56

and talk about a guided or went

12:58

to a things once called trojans

13:00

track which is an in south australia

13:03

and i people, why do a veterans into

13:05

the flinders ranges away from the of world?

13:08

and we talked about and

13:10

we talked about coping mechanisms and how

13:12

to communicate with a loved one's fantastic

13:14

organisations, created veterans

13:17

because they a mates were suffering in

13:20

and also i went to quests for life

13:22

which is up and now the southern new south

13:24

wales learning about mindfulness meditation

13:28

all that sort of stuff cause you gotta

13:30

switch off

13:31

he gotta switch off you gotta be outages

13:34

disconnect from everything and just get

13:36

some in your loss because what

13:38

runs around this in your head goes

13:41

at a thousand miles an hour when you're having a bad

13:43

guy and nothing makes

13:45

sense the your leisure

13:48

the old an absolute asshole to levy

13:50

absolute are fall so many times

13:53

i gave are so many reasons to walk out that

13:55

door can remember

13:57

one of those days when you thought

13:59

you

14:01

what makes it worth it some

14:03

way into that june the and i know

14:05

they would have been fed them further apart

14:08

the guys way it is thought

14:11

this is what got me into this job

14:13

this year got me back into it

14:15

absolutely there was quite a few jobs in all right

14:17

about a couple of minute book way to

14:19

keep he just he

14:22

just pick up something on the highway or

14:24

whatever it might a painting is this guy year of

14:26

now this one lay the the my

14:28

hallway between sydney the allied is the stood

14:30

hallway the a massive amounts

14:32

of drugs and hop and drug

14:34

paraphernalia all that sorta stuff going up and down

14:37

that hallway and pull up a catalogue one of jobs

14:39

at all right about where

14:41

have you been hardest and at like for weekend a

14:43

might a might driven from sydney all

14:46

the way the allied to visit a might

14:48

two nights yeah yeah right

14:51

what's in the car and often what's

14:54

in the method three

14:57

hundred seventy or thousand dollars wisely got that

14:59

in the car or cause i'm borrowing

15:01

money from a might to build my house all

15:04

, eye color and

15:06

literally but literally had or might in the police

15:08

station the bell reynaud literally within

15:10

ten minutes i'll get a phone call

15:12

from some undercover operative

15:14

in sydney guys are this is john

15:16

i from whatever drug unit ah

15:19

, you've got mr smith in custody custody

15:21

yeah have you know about which has got the wiser

15:23

minds of knowing we've been following a mole

15:26

avenue south wales is a curios been

15:28

supplying heroin in brisbane in adelaide

15:30

more sort of stuff you'll have fun

15:32

with him

15:33

in the and that guy

15:35

the last israel and seventy eight thousand dollar the six

15:37

months on top his five years because

15:39

he was involved in seven

15:41

kale as a heroin impair a matter twelve

15:44

months before

15:46

that the got hit one of

15:48

these mice from south australia

15:50

sit on our lives him the money and us at all

15:52

did you guys yeah yeah i did he

15:55

said you be willing to make to make mrs

15:57

you know for sure for sure because i gave

15:59

him the cash

16:00

in the trucking company in the town outside

16:02

a bad light

16:03

went to the local playstation i've avoided

16:06

the protect his up now so this is what i

16:08

got oh my guys into the

16:10

playstation provides a statement i

16:12

get all the paperwork send it off to the tax

16:15

office get a phone call from the

16:17

tax office a tax office guys thanks for all

16:19

this information they go and not at all my

16:21

door down in it

16:22

company they ,

16:24

his entire company data all these

16:26

assets cause he hasn't done tax for many

16:31

so

16:32

what he was also the supplier of

16:34

drugs or the out on the hallways so

16:37

that makes it worth it

16:38

the just found this entire to and

16:40

you've broken an entire

16:41

absolutely and that's when you go

16:43

man i love this show one

16:46

little late vehicle stop for random breast testing

16:48

turns into three hundred and seventy thousand dollars

16:50

casts closing down a trucking companies

16:52

drug ring

16:53

and a drug ring fearful how one

16:55

little uncomfortable at the bolivian yourself

16:58

while

16:58

and then the i'd see i always gets

17:01

you in the and doesn't

17:02

luna yourself you

17:04

if you can't that someone might be

17:06

can catch him another as another might a mindset

17:08

may the other thy what i held the way to earn

17:10

to earn earn income vienna

17:12

not enough i mean it's not like top a

17:14

paid a fortune to

17:16

fortune to this stuff that we need done

17:19

we we don't pay police enough

17:21

and we don't support the service enough

17:23

for what we ask of it

17:25

no not and a boy you're sitting

17:27

down having your wait picks and cup of

17:29

coffee weary up pulling a out of a car

17:31

or out of a bloody whatever other

17:34

and all that sorta stuff and uses go yeah

17:37

is it really worth it the average person

17:39

average civilian life and like and normal

17:41

job light against the office every day they

17:44

end up with about five pts the

17:46

incidents the incidents entire lifetime

17:48

the average kok in

17:50

a twenty a career has between five

17:52

hundred and eight hundred incidents of ptsd

17:57

the massive that is message

18:08

hi michelle and emily my

18:11

name is off not and and last

18:13

tuesday i signed up for

18:15

australian to clamp last i love you guys

18:17

a lot

18:18

and i can't wait for next episode

18:21

thank you was now

18:23

we're looking forward to the

18:24

the episodes two i know

18:26

is talking about

18:27

the extra fortnightly uploads australian

18:30

true crime plus

18:31

and you can his to by clicking the link

18:33

industry nights of visiting us

18:35

had apple podcasts

18:37

the returning a special series and forensic

18:39

series featuring australia's leading

18:41

scientists talking about real traces

18:43

you don't want any said i'm

18:46

we also to see

18:47

if you leave this a voice message like alternate had

18:50

through another link

18:51

missouri nights or on our facebook page

18:53

this next level is a stray the

18:56

entry times

19:04

it was an extremely pro active police

19:06

officer they are oh i loved

19:08

catching frogs and outsmarting him and or less

19:10

of a stuff and i i had a couple of operations

19:12

running were all was targeting the drug

19:15

dealers emma our

19:17

and there was there was houses around town the

19:20

system is that i had a cripple

19:22

cases going and all would just create

19:25

all these information reports about

19:27

everybody are so neither place going

19:30

to and from all that

19:31

what the drug was i know that around

19:33

that area jean de botton that i

19:35

would imagine

19:36

marijuana would be biggest big national murder

19:38

spoons i speak about yeah cat in

19:40

all as as stuff yep he had tablets

19:43

it you know but it was this because com as

19:45

got a child there as well so

19:47

any time with a gel has gel people living

19:49

in the tampa simple that ,

19:52

targeting a number of people and and that

19:54

dot that noise of the are

19:56

was my , we were having

19:59

a

19:59

a paper with no bicycling we were sitting

20:02

down and just banging away at all f

20:04

i was supposed to get out of the wild ten

20:07

o'clock i said my are going to get away from this computer

20:09

let's go for drive he says my all states

20:11

you got for a drive clear head come

20:14

back you're back in an outward so

20:16

sure

20:17

being accused i know it

20:19

ten was dead but we could have some

20:21

explosions iran and normally

20:24

what happens in cuma because

20:26

you said close to camera by

20:28

fireworks and they blowing

20:31

up litter boxes in town we

20:33

did thought looked until somebody calls as we're

20:35

not gonna go and look for anybody who is blowing

20:37

up litter boxes and will just white and say but

20:39

we could he bang bang bang alright

20:42

so at ten o'clock or jump into the place kha

20:45

gai forbid of a drive go pasta feel my

20:47

target premises no

20:49

activity i'm driving down this one

20:51

particular road and in the

20:53

shadows are could say to

20:55

shadows to people me

20:58

one of the drug houses

21:00

i turn around by saw with i took off

21:02

what's replacement the ah

21:05

for my game

21:05

and that's what i did i took choice

21:08

in the place cause they ran across a and

21:10

on through the whatever spite

21:12

was hot and i wasn't i wasn't doing a thousand miles

21:14

an hour

21:15

one fella takes off wouldn't

21:17

blame for the dust i

21:20

almost hidden embankment and i jump out of

21:22

the place car

21:24

the type the other person and

21:26

or fallen that person under my place catchy

21:28

since and it ended up being a fifteen

21:31

year old boy

21:33

i had no idea who he was i had

21:35

no idea who they were but our near a drug

21:38

half saw running away from the place a has

21:41

i call for

21:43

assistance all that sort of stuff or

21:46

back the plate kharafi everybody

21:49

arrived spot alla scientific

21:51

police arrive from ma'am kwame

21:54

been i was told that he was dead

21:56

oh my god

21:58

then nice it the appointments

22:00

let a roger we got it wrong he's gonna survive

22:03

in easy in the top of flying off the camera it

22:05

was back at school within about six or eight weeks

22:08

i was never allowed to

22:10

holding paid hug

22:13

him apologize to him nothing

22:15

the was seriously injured he had been i've broken

22:18

ribs punctured lung and all that

22:20

stuff and he was alive caught but

22:22

he'd he did recover

22:23

the did he certainly did recover

22:26

the

22:27

lo and behold several weeks later on told

22:29

my yoga end up with some charges what

22:32

the please ask the do to make sure to

22:34

transfer investigation the

22:37

on charged with two charges one

22:39

is a criminal offense in one is a traffic offense

22:43

during that period over the next nine

22:45

or ten months whatever was more mental

22:48

health just spirals

22:50

and spirals down and down and damn

22:52

i'm lucky to get to our sleep a night

22:55

my , of the bed is orange was with

22:57

every night i just can't sleep

23:00

on having all sorts of issues the

23:03

thing goes through the process of full the

23:05

paper going to my solicitor embarrassed

23:07

us and lots of the stuff on i

23:09

have those two charges and in charges and

23:11

it to me somebody with for

23:13

reports from medical practitioners

23:16

saying roger is sick

23:17

really really sick and i leave it up to

23:19

me to make the decision whether i'm gonna plead guilty

23:22

not guilty

23:23

and i can't

23:25

how can i make a decision

23:27

about

23:28

pleading guilty or not guilty when i was so

23:30

sick that obama to die what about the police

23:32

union the union gave

23:34

me support in assisting

23:36

with funding my legal team

23:38

but they gave me no other support

23:40

so guide me or suggests

23:43

how i should do this because i didn't want to

23:45

interfere in my due process and

23:47

water shuts off too much bright

23:49

had you been diagnosed with ptsd

23:51

at this stage of was this the catalyst for

23:53

the dot

23:53

no this was part of the catalyst

23:55

an oil or was already seeing these practitioners

23:58

yeah i've always say for practitioners

24:01

at the time literally just keep myself

24:03

alive the lady was

24:05

drive me to camber in sydney and all that

24:07

sort of stuff to see all these different practitioners

24:09

literally just to keep me alive the

24:11

caught my caught medal was put down for

24:13

today hearing if

24:16

i pleaded not guilty

24:18

was no chance that always going

24:21

to

24:21

had myself sit in front of a magistrate

24:24

and be torn apart by some clever

24:27

fella , the day pay pay because i was

24:29

absolutely terrified that i would say something

24:31

and and and myself

24:34

and always going to kill myself anyway so

24:37

a pleaded guilty to the lesser charge in the

24:39

hope at the magistrate

24:42

would say that i've got clean record and

24:44

know an upstanding citizen and i had references

24:46

from all sorts of different people i was highly decorated

24:49

all that sort of stuff so the lesser charge was

24:51

a was reckless driving yeah

24:54

basically derive in a manner to

24:56

cause injury or something or rather the

24:59

i was a lesser charge bought with

25:01

a camera to could have gone to jail a the

25:03

why whether a plea to guilty or not guilty i had

25:05

might optimum on that i was gonna kill myself anyone

25:09

outside basically ice basically went to court

25:12

meadow went before the magistrate

25:14

and the magistrate basically said i

25:17

have no idea why you pleaded guilty there was

25:19

no reason for you to plead guilty and

25:21

the matter was dismissed

25:22

that was a accident

25:24

and we went home i was

25:27

that was like i was hit by thousand trucks

25:29

i had energy to even stand up in

25:31

front of the magistrate while he did his summing up i

25:34

just sat there waiting for to be led into

25:36

giles and

25:38

the next morning or go to phone call from my any

25:41

says of the soldier papers they on

25:43

much and i was medically

25:45

discharged because he had the copies of

25:47

the reports from the medical practice and as you said

25:49

i've gotten us the evidence either of

25:51

us have you medically discharged there

25:54

was no time to process

25:56

those notes on to

25:58

sort myself out there was no opportunity

25:59

they get a desk job somewhere pushing papers

26:02

during the rosters nothing

26:05

the day after all will get a court he basically

26:07

set me

26:08

so what is the most

26:10

traumatic

26:11

hard of all of that like even though

26:14

you been to

26:15

it it the judge said

26:18

roger or didn't even know why you try

26:20

to plead guilty this was an accident he

26:23

walked out of say so you

26:25

know and none of the worst case scenario yeah

26:27

would ensue i did four years

26:29

why is it that it still the he still

26:32

say the incident in coma ever

26:34

since the incident into him at it still the

26:36

thing that

26:36

you i serve the

26:38

community to to protect the community and

26:42

that's why the book is called the price of protecting

26:45

others' it i a price i

26:47

played played price said i i

26:50

should a protected him i

26:52

shouldn't have heard him and i nearly

26:54

killed him and

26:57

i just want to apologize

26:59

to him and and say

27:01

i'm sorry but it it was a tragic

27:03

accident then i agree it was tragic accident

27:06

or didn't intentionally go at the heard

27:08

him or i heard imply hurt the family

27:11

i don't care about my reputation raising rollo that

27:13

but i've heard him and my

27:16

entire family played family price on it

27:18

the water three kids all that stuff with

27:20

all paid a price because

27:23

quite literally libyan the kids will

27:25

the for me to be dead

27:27

what literally

27:28

and work through a lot of a with my

27:31

councils that stuff the

27:33

term

27:34

the a that the impact and a half

27:36

get the , has been enormous

27:39

on myself myself my family

27:41

clearly massive absolutely massive

27:44

will we have to leave kuma because of it ends

27:46

and an arrow the sunny aerial assault

27:48

he said he had basically way

27:51

to leave kuma or i'm leaving home

27:54

how could be tiny community that saw

27:56

as an and the kid was at his school

27:58

it's hard enough been a cop his kid the net without

28:00

something that

28:02

then yeah

28:03

i'm in all three of our kids have issues

28:06

school because they'd father was a copper

28:10

oh right

28:11

yes i love the job and all that sorta stuff but

28:14

when you find out that is the three

28:16

things that you loved dearly a being

28:18

bullied and arrest because the

28:20

i'm a dead the cop

28:22

know

28:24

cause in the absence of being able

28:26

to talk to the boy the boy's

28:28

family because it's and to

28:30

me when you're talking that the distress was

28:32

mainly coming from

28:34

the accident and what happened and then there's the process

28:37

which is really drawn out what what's helped

28:39

to in the absence of being alberto apologize

28:41

or

28:42

talk to them with you can

28:44

as working through it as much as

28:46

you can

28:47

talking talking to anybody

28:50

putting it on paper going to

28:52

know

28:54

the retreats , are been

28:56

so and just talking to other people people

28:59

funny you mix with other x and

29:01

all sorta stuff you don't say much

29:03

but you just get a each a he

29:05

just go on what about what the ah yes

29:07

would bet that yeah i yeah you don't

29:09

have to explain anything in the hardest thing

29:12

when you go to see a doctor a psychologist

29:14

or psychiatrist doctor council whatever other

29:16

to have to explain everything you have to break

29:19

it down and sites break it say

29:21

this but not when you're a group

29:23

way your own place where

29:25

the same thing and and i have mixed with guys

29:27

from victorian south a strain every year

29:30

different uniforms same job the

29:32

job help of friends from singapore palacio

29:35

and we just guess if you're in different countries

29:37

soups same stuff i've

29:40

got friends from germany yellow cops

29:42

and is go get to the funny language the

29:45

has a four hour at we all

29:47

do the same crappy shitty

29:50

but when you're talking about it to bother

29:52

playful you can offload offload

29:54

and you with like minded people you

29:56

can offload in a different way than

29:59

when you're speaking to

29:59

there's no ot a partner that's

30:02

when you can have some moments but when all been on

30:04

this try to strike on the last can't with all

30:06

x cops basically most of them the

30:09

i'd moments where we're told him as stuff that we

30:11

have never said to anybody before

30:14

some really highly personal stuff

30:18

new just offloading this shit and you're crawling

30:20

and each other's arms and stuff like that and

30:22

a nice feeling that

30:24

is failing and that's why i love going a wildly soda

30:26

things and mixing with other people

30:29

because you can just

30:30

offline

30:31

and get rid of some of that oi that

30:33

as you say to us earlier it's not like

30:35

you've been able to just move into another

30:38

korea or even another job i mean

30:41

you've had so many jobs

30:43

insane because you've been unable to

30:45

stay in one place

30:46

the line one job absolutely

30:49

and annoyed when i moved to bundle

30:51

i was in a local government compliance

30:53

role and i loved the job

30:55

it was going through a bit of trauma

30:58

so i became hyper sensitive and

31:00

hyper vigilant more that sorta stuff and

31:02

it just upset me too much not didn't feel

31:04

size moved on

31:06

can you talk to us about how that presents

31:08

itself in the workplace

31:11

are you because of my

31:13

career with career place i didn't trust management

31:15

at all in the and the intimidation

31:17

bullying the harassment know let's

31:19

other stuff he constantly

31:21

looking over your shoulder so now that i'm in

31:23

other forces will happen

31:26

i just i trust management adult

31:28

so what do you like around the office let's say you work

31:30

for us and all will up

31:32

at nine or let's be honest tabasco ten

31:35

arms whoa what do you like around

31:37

the office we a initially in our dramas

31:39

but then what stuff and had issue

31:41

we with coworkers yeah fantastic

31:43

absolutely fantastic love with know that of

31:45

stuff but i'm always on the lookout a

31:48

mouser the coming in i'm

31:50

really hop a sensitive about eighty miles of phone

31:52

calls and all that of stuff from anybody above

31:54

my level because what are they

31:57

got to criticize me back now what's gonna happen

31:59

now the result of that stress

32:01

and trauma i have a sweeper

32:03

the tongue or i might become

32:05

extremely anxious and

32:07

i rushed through jobs and all that guy from

32:10

a b c d e a guy from either

32:13

the that little steps in between so

32:16

they are you popped up a job a bit because you

32:18

haven't been methodical and that's not right

32:20

and say then i sent you an email saying roger

32:23

that see lasted a day yesterday it's

32:26

it's not working out because you forgot to do day

32:28

and f absolutely and then how do you feel that

32:30

a male

32:31

the not feel intimidated and bulletin

32:34

arrests and then i start

32:36

having all these you know

32:38

we thought that they that you're gonna

32:41

start monitoring my phone and eighty miles

32:43

all that sort of staff and and this is

32:45

just older we'd stuff

32:47

that goes on in the back of my head of

32:49

all the trauma that i had when i was in the costs

32:52

because that's what our doing that's

32:54

what i was thinking so

32:56

and that's what happens in my job to like ever

32:59

are still struggle cause i

33:02

i just struggled to trust anybody

33:04

a position of authority

33:06

because those people were the ones

33:08

that nearly second me quite a few times

33:10

and in the ended up i just trust

33:13

them could not speak and i would even

33:15

go to them with personal matters and

33:17

then i use that as that weapon against me

33:20

or i feel id

33:21

the challenge of disclosing mean

33:23

i held it

33:24

yeah i agree more that either way it

33:26

is yeah this is modeling really really

33:28

tough because even with the job that had

33:30

added young well i declared

33:32

it and then within the first couple

33:35

of ice i said how do we deal with this raj we've never

33:37

had to deal with this sort of stuff know what

33:39

do we need to do and i explained it to them and

33:41

now quite going oh quite good

33:44

however in other jobs with i just

33:46

don't understand mental health stuff i

33:49

just got a you too much of a risk by the

33:52

getting the as getting their lox the

33:54

a couple years ago trying to disclose

33:56

your mental health and everything isn't of

33:58

wouldn't get assuming

34:00

the getting they were they caught ivan about it

34:03

that's an aging you take a box

34:05

so good to hear that i'm real

34:07

because if we held was a fundraising

34:10

effort for right we mental health and we rise fifteen

34:12

bucks in one afternoon nine cents

34:15

or that that's pretty good because are on the right here

34:17

in length of stuff and that's another thing that i do

34:19

was still serve to protect but i'm doing

34:21

it in a voluntary roll with right tree and we go

34:23

out and we do some wonderful things for community projects

34:26

so if you're a next couple veteran were from

34:29

something you still wanna pick yeah so

34:31

it all a voluntary organizations are they

34:34

so i'm gay and

34:36

lo and behold the that young

34:38

fellow that i know that we thought

34:40

was a scarecrow their parents

34:42

came to the floor

34:43

oh gosh at some

34:45

i came to the book i got in touch

34:47

with him and us a demon if i write about it

34:50

my said you gotta do what you gotta do rogers

34:52

says that twenty years

34:54

later nearly they

34:56

came to the booklets and i

34:58

gave a book and i read the book and my lover

35:00

and that yeah i traded up with

35:02

the dignity and that a desert and

35:05

it was such an amazing experience

35:08

to hug them both

35:09

that's also a mark of the relationship

35:11

you built with some before that on

35:14

congratulations and give up to your lovely water

35:16

yes

35:16

see the fantastic woman to

35:18

see right the final chapter about

35:21

the impact on her and the kids and she

35:23

says that she had succumbed to the conclusion

35:25

that it was gonna be my decision

35:27

if i took my life

35:29

that she had to understand that i made

35:31

that decision myself

35:33

wow

35:35

yeah

35:36

when you get the both raid the final chapter

35:38

first and you'll go holly damn

35:41

the i still cry become a writer

35:56

leaving the voice mail using

35:58

a link in the show

35:59

on the facebook page and you could be

36:02

a and thank

36:04

you for downloading this episode australian

36:06

true crime recorded at a have australia

36:08

media studio have australia

36:10

com find a that's right

36:12

for you

36:16

this has been another smarten

36:18

up reductions in conjunction

36:20

with the a cast create a network