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This. Episode of Ward Shutters Brought to

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You By Max presenting the Last of

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Us the H B O Original Series.

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Don't. Miss the critically acclaimed series

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streaming. On. Max. Hybrid.

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Want to thank you for tuning into the

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Five Hundred twenty seventh episode of The Hollywood

0:32

Reporter's Awards Chatter podcast on the hosts Got

0:34

Feinberg and my Gets Today is a terrific

0:36

Irish after. The. New York Times has

0:39

said is known for his electrifying typecast

0:41

defying turns in a range of movies

0:43

big and small. Who. Backstage is

0:45

called a Chameleon. a performer, a character

0:48

actor trapped in a leading mans bone

0:50

structure. And. Who Interview Magazine

0:52

has noted has had a very

0:54

impressive career so far. But

0:57

is. Still, somehow cruelly underrated

0:59

and only getting better. His.

1:01

Stand out credits include two Thousand to Twenty

1:03

Eight Days Later. Two. Thousand and Five Breakfast

1:06

non Pluto for which he received a Golden Globe

1:08

nomination for best actor in a musical or comedy.

1:11

Two. Thousand and Seven Sunshine and Two

1:13

Thousand and Twenty One's a quiet place

1:15

part to. He. Also anchored between

1:17

Two Thousand and Thirteen and Two Thousand

1:19

and Twenty Two Picky Blinders, the massively

1:22

acclaim drama series about Birmingham Gang during

1:24

the years between World War One and

1:26

World War Two. Which. Aired on Bbc

1:28

to in the Uk and also stream

1:30

to massive numbers on Netflix. But.

1:32

He is probably most associated with

1:34

a films of Christopher Nolan. Having

1:37

appeared and six of them over nearly

1:39

twenty years. Two. Thousand And Five. Batman

1:41

Begins. Two Thousand And Eight. The Dark Knight.

1:43

Two. Thousand and Ten, Inception, Two Thousand

1:45

and Twelve, The Dark Knight Rises,

1:48

two Thousand and Seventeen, Dunkirk, and

1:50

most recently, Two Thousand and Twenty

1:52

Threes Oppenheimer. In. Which he plays

1:54

J. Robert Oppenheimer, the American theoretical

1:56

physicists and father of the Atomic

1:58

Bomb. and for which he won the

2:01

Golden Globe for Best Actor in a Drama, was

2:03

nominated for the Best Actor at Craig's

2:05

Choice Award, and is nominated

2:08

for the Best Actor SAG, BAFTA,

2:10

and Academy Awards, a

2:12

man who Nolan has described as one

2:14

of the great actors of his generation

2:16

both on stage and on film, Killian

2:19

Murphy. Over the

2:21

course of the conversation at the LA offices of The

2:24

Hollywood Reporter, the 47-year-old and I

2:26

discussed why and how he suddenly

2:28

shifted paths from making music to

2:30

acting, why and how

2:32

he fought for the role of Tommy Shelby

2:34

on Peaky Blinders, how he

2:36

and Nolan first came to work together, what

2:39

distinguishes Nolan's sets and films from others,

2:41

and how he reacted to being offered the

2:43

lead in a Nolan film for the first

2:45

time with Oppenheimer, plus much

2:48

more. And so without further

2:50

ado, let's go to that conversation. Killian,

2:55

thank you so much for joining us and great

2:58

to have you on the podcast. We on

3:00

this podcast truly go back to the beginning

3:02

for our listeners. Can you share where you

3:04

were born and raised and what your folks did

3:06

for a living? I was

3:09

born and raised in Cork City and

3:12

my parents are retired

3:15

teachers, both of them. I come

3:17

from a long line of teachers and headmasters.

3:20

And now I think maybe with

3:22

their encouragement, it seems like music

3:25

was really the thing for you before acting.

3:27

How did you, you

3:29

know, what kind of hooked you on that and can

3:31

you share with people who don't know just how far

3:33

that that really went? Yeah,

3:35

from a very early age I fell in

3:38

love with music, just listening

3:40

to it and then playing

3:43

guitar and playing drums and being in

3:45

bands and going to gigs. And my

3:47

parents would take us a lot to

3:49

traditional Irish music sessions and

3:52

then my brother played a piano and my sister played

3:54

music. And It was

3:56

kind of just there in the background all of

3:58

the time. I became truly

4:01

obsessed with us and we had

4:03

a band when I was in

4:05

school with my brother and then

4:07

that sort of evolved into another

4:09

band as we got older. And.

4:11

Concerns Mr. Green Genes which which was

4:13

a name that we stole from as

4:16

up a song or all Zappa heads

4:18

and am and then we got offered

4:20

a record deal. That

4:22

was this. That was a big moment. And.

4:26

Some of the band members, including my

4:28

brother were you know, under eighteen. So.

4:31

That needed their parents to sign the deal

4:33

for the but those the parents wouldn't and

4:35

I said five you guys on a gone

4:37

that you know a do that and and

4:39

but the but they wouldn't have it the

4:41

whole thing collapse right now it seems like

4:44

this was this happen at the same time

4:46

as like. A bunch of other

4:48

very important things in your life. I it

4:50

seems like. Honing in on

4:52

around August, ninety Six or Twenty

4:55

Sat and you just share what?

4:58

Hit in that months that has totally changed

5:00

the course of your life and so many

5:02

ways is August. Ninety Six was a big

5:04

month for me. I am. I

5:08

failed my first year law

5:10

exams. Am

5:12

I failed? gloriously?

5:15

And then I.

5:18

It. With it to do we allow

5:20

for the record deal on. I

5:22

met my. Wife

5:25

at that same month, and

5:27

I also. Am.

5:29

Auditions for a part in

5:31

a play called Disco Pigs

5:33

on. And. So on

5:35

of those things became huge events in

5:38

my life that will which I didn't

5:40

realize that the time that they would

5:42

be such huge turning points but they

5:44

were all massive. Finance will. So.

5:46

This. Last one that

5:48

you bring up about sort as

5:50

I am really auditioning for the

5:52

first time for any acting a

5:54

great a man it's. It's

5:57

I could. You know I've tried to.

6:00

Do. My research against rape but I act

6:02

possible. I've got this wrong. but is the

6:04

guy who you ask for the audition? Was.

6:07

He somebody who you'd previously out

6:09

as a teacher years earlier, know

6:11

I'm. So. There was there was

6:13

a theater company called Kirk A Darker Theater

6:15

Companies and at the time is run by

6:18

a pot Kiernan and and a was and

6:20

there and co artistic directors and part was

6:22

that. He would direct the shows and

6:24

would write them. and ah, eyes to Pester

6:26

Pattern and around and Cork City and Pumps

6:28

and stuff. And because I had seen a

6:31

production of his and Block blew my mind

6:33

and I I was just curious. You know

6:35

it's I never been. To the theater

6:37

as a kid am but I was very curious

6:39

about it and that he ventures that are i

6:41

leave me alone you can have an audition and

6:44

and then he was out of town so I

6:46

auditioned for and was it was the writer of

6:48

the plates. And that's how it

6:50

came to be. And the play though, it's on Madison,

6:53

thanks to So. Kind as similar

6:55

as people I guess a little bit.

6:57

at least I'm. Sort.

6:59

Of my unusual couple

7:01

in. Clark. Where you're

7:03

also from apps and this thing as I

7:05

understand it was originally supposed to be three

7:07

weeks in court and the on how the

7:10

comes to years all around the world Exactly.

7:12

And this is with a guy who had

7:14

never. So. Much as addition

7:16

let alone acted in anything before the

7:18

yeah, how did you did you just

7:20

sort of your just I. right?

7:23

At home. When you when you did

7:25

audition or how does it I'll explain

7:27

it. I've always kind of felt comfortable

7:29

being on stage. If from

7:31

when I was a small kids and

7:33

the first version of it was playing

7:35

music and then. When. That didn't

7:37

work out or it came to it

7:40

at kind of a dead end with

7:42

the band. Ten theaters serve. It

7:44

was an easy segue from musical theater

7:46

for me because it was the live

7:48

experience again and there was only two as

7:51

the play Me and I and an

7:53

Expos Eileen Months and the and the

7:55

other parts were like really amazing and

7:57

it was all in this tiny contain

7:59

space from of and like a bit

8:01

of space. The playing space was that

8:03

like the dimensions of a pool table.

8:05

you know I'm so he had created his

8:07

whole world's between the two of us

8:09

in this pilot space and it was

8:11

incredibly visceral addicts and like it and

8:13

and written language. The set of made

8:15

up language that they both spoke between

8:17

each other in it was kind of

8:19

a mixture of cork him a made

8:21

up words and discover a pat pat want

8:23

that he had developed. And

8:26

then it was kind of brilliant. Brilliant. Hang

8:28

in music in it and

8:30

am and damn. I.

8:32

Just felt quite rock and roll to

8:34

be in itself with the root root really

8:37

instantly I felt like I can. I

8:39

am into this. I'm still. Didn't.

8:41

If it ever seen as a career but

8:44

that was along for the ride. So we

8:46

started get invited all these festivals or started

8:48

winning prizes and and more festivals or it

8:50

so i just it's just kind of snowballed

8:52

in. As interesting as you said that as

8:54

you. Move. To larger than yours

8:57

you feel it may as. Lust.

8:59

Some of the magic just because it

9:01

was originally such as an intimate experience

9:03

yeah that like I remember when the

9:05

first in Venice we played it in

9:07

in Dublin, India International bar upstairs or

9:09

maybe the audience for so close to

9:11

the stage and I every time we

9:13

turn it we like would cover them

9:15

it's west the front of you know

9:17

attack as we were swam percent of

9:19

is such an intense peace. And then

9:21

we did a run in the West

9:23

End in London and. Ninety.

9:26

Seven made a be and Ninety Eight

9:28

can remember but it was of. It

9:30

was a disaster because we're in the

9:32

big old traditional proceeding a march theater

9:34

and and this tiny little play I

9:36

just got service swallowed up by as

9:38

you know wasn't designed for that but

9:40

that would That's what you do and

9:42

you're that age kind of experiment and

9:44

see how things at how far things

9:46

you can take these where you're right.

9:48

It was more. It. felt like

9:50

ah and much grungy or than

9:52

a big puppeteer and i just

9:55

wanna know for listeners that and

9:57

allows is some it's going to

9:59

come circle even in

10:01

terms of upcoming projects. You guys are

10:03

still working together, but in terms of

10:05

theatrical stuff after Disco Pigs, there's Mr.

10:08

Man, Bally Turk, Grief is the Thing with

10:10

Feathers, on and on. And Enda

10:12

has said in terms of when he

10:15

first met you, quote, and

10:17

I think he may be a little off on the time, but quote, I think

10:19

he was 18, 19, but he looked about 13

10:22

and he had this incredible energy and aura

10:24

to him, close quote. So this show

10:26

of his becomes

10:29

that two year marathon,

10:32

which you have described as kind

10:34

of the most important period of my life, close

10:36

quote. Is that because it

10:39

just was sort of, it really put you

10:41

on the map or is it for more

10:43

personal reasons even than that? Both

10:45

really. I met my wife at

10:47

the time and she kind of

10:50

came around and toured with us. I

10:52

dropped out of college, I moved out

10:54

of home. Well, I had been out

10:56

of home, but I was like definitely

10:58

not going back home. And I was

11:00

hanging out with those guys with Enda and Pass

11:02

and Eileen and we were

11:05

all this sort of your

11:07

approach to theater and your approach to the arts

11:10

and what you value and writing

11:12

and perform. All of that was really formed at

11:14

a very accelerated

11:16

pace during that period. And

11:18

you know, like Enda and

11:21

Eileen and my wife Yvonne, like

11:23

they're still some of the most important people in my

11:25

life. And so obviously it was huge

11:27

in that respect. And then I was learning how

11:29

to be an actor. And to me,

11:31

the best way that you can learn how to be

11:33

an actress is just by doing it. So

11:36

I was doing it every night on stage and then like

11:38

we were doing matinee shows and it

11:40

was a fantastically exciting time. You've pretty

11:43

regularly since gone back to the stage.

11:46

I mean, it's not like it was left

11:48

behind when... Because it's interesting that so, Cisco

11:50

Pigs, then they make a movie version of

11:52

it, which was the first

11:54

movie that you really had a

11:57

substantial part in. I've done a couple

11:59

of other movies. I

12:01

did a movie that same year called On the Edge that

12:04

John Kearney directed it and I did Disco Pigs

12:06

that year as well. So yeah, it was they

12:08

were the first time, those two movies are the

12:10

first time I was actually getting leading parts. So

12:14

the film version comes

12:16

out in 2001 and I guess one of

12:18

the people who saw

12:20

it or certainly was aware of it was

12:22

a woman named Gail Stevens.

12:25

This is Danny Boyle's casting director. Do

12:28

you know, so she says to

12:30

Danny, you got to check out

12:32

this film or just how did it

12:35

end up leading to you meeting Danny

12:37

Boyle who is somebody who I know

12:39

had had meant a lot to

12:41

you as a filmgoer? Well I've always

12:43

believed you know that work begets work

12:45

in this business and hopefully good work

12:48

begets good work and the

12:50

film came out and it wasn't a huge film but

12:53

we brought it to Berlin I remember

12:55

and it got some nice reviews and

12:57

it did well enough

12:59

in Ireland but then yeah Gail

13:02

Stevens saw it somewhere and

13:04

showed it to Danny and Danny was at that

13:06

point casting 28 days later and you know me

13:08

like many other fellas

13:14

my age I had a Trainspotting poster

13:16

in my bedroom I saw the movie

13:18

the very first day it came out

13:20

you know in shallow grave as well

13:22

those movies were very important to me

13:25

growing up and he's such a phenomenal

13:27

director so when I heard

13:29

about it I really desperately wanted to

13:32

do that part and he and he put

13:34

me through five or six auditions it

13:36

was a long process and there was a lot of

13:38

guys competing for it at the time. I just

13:41

want to interject the part that we're talking about

13:43

here for anyone who hasn't seen it this is

13:45

Jim a guy who wakes up from

13:47

a coma after 28 days and

13:49

suddenly finds that London

13:51

has been decimated by a

13:54

mysterious virus of some

13:56

sort and for Danny this

13:58

was the script by

14:00

Alex Garland, who's obviously gone on to other

14:03

things, but who had previously written The Beach,

14:05

which Danny made into the movie. So you

14:07

now come in through that audition

14:10

process you've just talked about, finally get this

14:12

part. Did you realize, you know,

14:14

that this could be this was going to be a game

14:17

changing opportunity for you just in terms of visibility

14:19

and all of that? The

14:22

thing I realized was that it was for the first time, a director

14:25

of note, a serious, serious director

14:27

who had a really serious track

14:30

record. But it

14:32

was a tiny little film made on a

14:34

very small little budget. And at

14:36

that time, zombie pictures were not cool

14:38

or, you know, and

14:41

I was not familiar with the genre. Honestly, I hadn't

14:43

watched all of those Romero movies. And I

14:46

never felt while we were making the movie

14:48

that it really was a zombie film because

14:50

we were talking about this rage

14:52

virus. And it was really talking

14:54

about what was happening in the world at the

14:56

time. And then I remember SARS came along and

14:58

then all of a sudden 9-11 came along. And

15:00

so the world changed really, really, really quickly. But

15:03

then when it came out, particularly

15:08

in America, actually, people were nuts

15:10

for us. And it kind

15:12

of rejuvenated the

15:15

whole zombie genre. And it was

15:17

the first time that these creatures,

15:19

even though in our story, they're called the

15:22

infected, that they were actually terrifying and they

15:25

were sparse. And Danny

15:27

directed it so brilliantly and the

15:29

script was so smart. And

15:32

so that did change things for

15:34

me back then. Well, and I

15:37

guess in a few ways. First, I want to ask you about

15:39

the personal impact because

15:41

you've since spoken about it consistently

15:43

20 years now, plus about

15:46

the fact that, you know, okay,

15:48

so this little movie becomes a big success and

15:51

suddenly people are very curious about you. And that

15:53

is not what you necessarily

15:56

signed up for, right? Yeah. How did

15:58

you... acclimate

16:01

to that, what have

16:03

your feelings evolved? I mean just basically

16:06

must have been a jarring time. You

16:08

know when I was doing Disco Pigs

16:11

again I was like, yeah well let's see what happens,

16:13

I was just going on the ride

16:16

and then when that play

16:18

finished you know I was unemployed for a year and then

16:20

I started getting more jobs in theatre and I thought right

16:22

I'll be a theatre actor and I'll do that and I

16:24

was so happy doing that and we were touring around Ireland,

16:27

I was doing great plays with

16:29

Drew at Theatre Company and I

16:31

was having a great time for myself and a

16:33

film I was you know mildly curious about and

16:35

I got a little part in short film and

16:37

a little part in supporting parts and slightly bigger

16:39

films and then all of a sudden you

16:42

know that Disco Pigs came around and

16:44

you think right well I've got to play that

16:47

part and so it's like I suppose I'm sure

16:49

to say to you I never had a plan

16:51

or an ambition it was very I'm just happy

16:53

to be working. Then when 28 days

16:55

later was a success you think

16:57

well I might as well go and have a meeting in America

17:01

you know and I might as well get an

17:03

American agent and see what happens but it was

17:05

never like because I

17:07

had fallen into becoming an actor

17:10

I never possessed that driving hunger

17:12

to succeed I was just

17:14

genuinely thrilled to be doing it

17:17

but at the same time when you're given an

17:19

opportunity you take it you think right let's challenge

17:21

myself here and see if I can do this

17:23

and see if I can make it you know

17:25

like it take move to the next level and

17:27

play a lead part in a

17:29

studio movie or a support environment studio movie

17:31

whatever it might be so and in terms

17:33

of like if you're

17:35

sort of asking about

17:37

how it affected in terms of like my

17:39

recognizability or fame or any of that it

17:42

didn't change that much you know back then films

17:44

would come out for

17:46

a couple of months and they would go and so

17:48

you people might recognize you for a while but

17:50

then it would pass but now it's that the

17:53

whole machine is much different and TV makes everything

17:55

much much different now so it

17:57

didn't change much for me personally

18:00

I guess professionally what it did as you

18:03

say there's suddenly there's more

18:05

interest in meeting you in Hollywood

18:08

LA I

18:11

love that you said Everybody

18:15

called me silly in that shape that all changed

18:17

that when 28 days later became

18:19

a big hit suddenly they could all pronounce my name

18:23

They're still working on it. They're still working But

18:26

I guess out of those meetings would it be

18:28

correct to say some of the things that might

18:30

have come out of that there's a Good

18:33

supporting part the butcher's apprentice in

18:35

girl with a pearl earring. Yeah,

18:38

there's a part in Anthony Miguel

18:40

is called mountain Yeah, and then

18:42

I don't know maybe this was you

18:45

know, this is a slight bit later But you'd

18:47

already I think been pursuing breakfast

18:49

on Pluto, right? Yeah, that

18:51

was I That

18:55

came about because I made a film called

18:57

intermission that Neil Jordan produced so

19:00

I would see Neil Jordan around again, and

19:02

I I pestered him I believe I wrote

19:04

him a letter as well and I Was

19:07

I was I was a fan of

19:09

his movie The the butcher boy was an

19:11

extraordinary piece of piece of work an extraordinary

19:13

book And he was kept

19:15

talking about maybe making breakfast on Pluto and

19:18

I adore that book And

19:20

I think needless is a fantastic filmmaker. So

19:22

yeah again, I just I annoyed

19:25

him And

19:27

then he kind of gave in well as part of

19:30

it was you're up against the clock, right? You had

19:32

to be able to play this

19:34

this person who was in their

19:36

teens for a portion of this this we should just

19:38

say kitten Braden a

19:41

trans teen who experiences all kinds of

19:44

assorted adventures in 60s and 70s

19:46

England Neil Jordan had previously Kind

19:50

of gone into that territory with the

19:52

crying game, which was 13 years earlier

19:56

But now I guess that may have been

19:58

part of why he took so long to decide to actually

20:00

go with it, right? Probably, yeah, probably.

20:03

It does examine sort of similar themes,

20:06

but it's a very different film. Yeah, I did know

20:08

that I think when I played that part, I

20:10

was 26, 27, so I did know

20:12

that there was a ticking clock that I wouldn't be

20:14

able to play it that long. So eventually we got

20:16

it made and

20:19

I have huge, huge affection

20:21

for that character and

20:24

I really went for it and

20:26

made a great time making it. And I'll

20:28

just say, I mean, Golden

20:31

Globe nomination, it was a very well

20:33

received among critics, Critical Circles. I remember,

20:36

I think that was the first time

20:38

that I'm sure I'd seen

20:40

28 Days Later and but this was

20:42

like people were looking at you as,

20:45

you know, a force at this point and

20:48

I think that that year must have been,

20:50

even though that I think was probably made

20:52

a little bit before 2005, it comes out

20:55

in the same year

20:57

you're playing this kind of

21:00

psychopathic guy, totally different guy in Red

21:02

Eye for a West Craven. It's

21:05

the same year that you're

21:07

in the first of your Nolan movies,

21:09

Batman Begins. Do you remember

21:11

just that, that your experience, your experience

21:13

of that year as all these things are coming

21:15

out and people are starting to realize

21:18

it's the same guy doing all these different things?

21:20

Yeah, that was kind of a crazy year in

21:23

a good way. You know, I had three

21:26

films that came out, two of

21:28

them, the Batman movie and Red

21:30

Eye. Again, they really hit home, they were big

21:32

hits and then Breakfast

21:35

in Pluto was a bit of a critical hit

21:38

and yeah, it was kind of crazy

21:40

because it

21:42

was a kind of a quirk of distribution, you

21:45

know, that they all came out one after the

21:47

other. I hadn't anticipated it, so that was a

21:49

bit of a shock. That's where things did change

21:51

a little bit for me in terms of the

21:54

kind of pressure or recognizability or whatever, but it

21:56

was all good and I suppose I spent a

21:58

lot of time in the film. spending more time

22:00

over here than I had

22:02

anticipated doing that. Because you were living at

22:05

that point in London? Yeah, we were living

22:07

in London, but just

22:09

making both those movies, Batman

22:11

and Red Eyed, made them over here and then I

22:13

was over here more and more. But

22:18

it was an interesting time. I mean, I was

22:21

still quite young, I suppose, looking back. Well,

22:24

I want to obviously focus a bit

22:26

on this beginning of your now

22:29

six-film, 20-plus-year collaboration

22:31

with Christopher Nolan. It

22:34

starts with Batman Begins

22:36

Again 2005 as the release,

22:38

but first of all, do you

22:40

know how you first came to Nolan's attention? Apparently,

22:44

he didn't see

22:47

the movie first. He saw a picture of me in

22:49

the movie. Of 28 Days Later. 28

22:52

Days Later, with like the shaved

22:54

head and the covered in blood. He

22:56

was writing Batman Begins at the time and he said,

23:00

I don't know who this guy is, but we should

23:02

get him in or I should meet him. Which

23:04

is crazy that he would do that just off a picture.

23:06

But anyway, he did and I

23:09

happened to be in LA and I met him. And

23:12

he's still writing the script and I was

23:14

a fan. I had seen

23:16

Memento and Insomnia in the cinema. I remember going

23:18

to see Memento twice in a row because I

23:20

was so impressed by it. And

23:23

so I was a huge fan. And then we met

23:25

and we're not that dissimilar in age. He's a few

23:27

years older than me, but we're kind of in around

23:30

the same age. And so

23:33

he just sat down that day and spoke

23:35

for hours. Like genuinely, we spoke for hours

23:37

and we sort of got

23:40

on very well, very quickly. And

23:42

then he said, listen, you should come and test for Batman.

23:45

And I did think that was a silly

23:47

idea. I did because I didn't

23:49

quite have the physics. I was very, very sliced

23:51

back then. And I really

23:53

felt like that didn't make sense. And

23:56

I knew the Christian Bale was one of the people testing and it

23:58

felt to me that it should be all. always would

24:00

be Christian Bale, but nevertheless I wanted to get

24:03

in a room with Chris and

24:06

when we did the test, they had

24:08

built sets, they were shooting around 35 mil,

24:10

it was properly lit and

24:12

they had the Val Kilmer bat suit and each

24:16

actor got to do a Batman scene and a Bruce

24:18

Wayne scene, so it was very elaborate and

24:20

he really directed us and spent time with us

24:22

and I loved it. I mean I absolutely loved

24:24

doing it but I knew it wasn't

24:27

right. Well that was it early

24:29

and it had to wear the bat suit. Yeah, all

24:31

of us did and it's a

24:34

great buzz to have to do that

24:36

and I really enjoyed it but then

24:38

I was like well that was something I will

24:40

never forget and at least I got to work

24:42

with Christopher Nolan in a tiny way and that'll

24:45

be it. So I flew home and

24:48

then he called me about a week later I think

24:50

and said look as we

24:52

thought that you're not going to

24:54

be Batman but I have this other character and

24:57

then he had to convince the studio because

24:59

up until that point that all the Batman villains had

25:01

been like huge movie stars.

25:04

Jack Nicholson, all those different. Yeah,

25:06

Jim Carrey and Orange, you know

25:08

so he convinced them anyway

25:10

or they saw the

25:13

tape and they gave me the

25:15

parts. What was your initial

25:17

kind of explanation

25:20

of who Dr. Jonathan Crane, Scarecrow, who

25:22

was this guy as it was told

25:24

to you? Well I remember DC

25:27

sent me all the early comics. It's

25:29

one of the earliest villains so I

25:31

was reading all of those but mostly

25:33

we were just working off the script

25:35

and it

25:37

was so brilliant. It was like it's just an out

25:39

and out buddy. A lot

25:43

of the characters I've kind

25:45

of played over the years operating this kind

25:47

of you

25:50

know they're like anti-heroes or like you

25:52

know they're in that sort of weird gray area

25:54

and I love that because that's humanity and we're

25:56

all have a bit of contradictory

25:58

if you like. but with Crane,

26:01

he was just kind of mad. You

26:03

know, and so it was great to

26:05

be able to go a bit big

26:07

and to go a bit broad. And

26:10

Chris, on set, me and

26:13

Chris had a bit of fun immediately. And he would

26:15

say, yeah, just try it out. So I

26:17

loved doing that. I really loved having

26:20

a bit of fun with it, you know. And doing it

26:22

across three films, right? Because

26:24

Batman Begins in 05, The

26:27

Dark Knight in 08, and then in 2012,

26:29

The Dark Knight Returns. Rises.

26:33

Excuse me, Dark Knight Rises. Oh, I'm going to

26:35

get killed. Dark Knight Rises. So

26:38

question, you know, because just

26:41

even in between those were

26:43

other things like Inception that I'll

26:45

bring up. But you've sort of,

26:47

you've said that even though Nolan's

26:50

movies, Wright, Thrupp and Heimer are

26:52

these, you know, large scale, huge

26:56

studio productions, they feel to you like,

26:58

not unlike the indie things that you

27:01

often also do. How can that be?

27:03

What do you mean by that? It's just the

27:05

way he runs the sets. I mean, he has,

27:07

he does make these movies on a big scale,

27:09

a big canvas. But the way he runs the

27:11

sets is that there

27:13

is Chris and

27:16

the DP and the boom

27:18

up on set. And

27:20

that's it. And there's no

27:22

video village or monitors or anything like that.

27:25

So that was the case on right

27:27

from the beginning of Batman Begins for me

27:29

right up until Oppenheimer. So

27:31

it makes the actors feel

27:33

really, really secure and safe and cared

27:36

for. And, you know, Chris

27:38

stands beside the camera all the time watching

27:40

you with his eyes. He has a tiny

27:42

little shitty monitor with like AAA

27:44

batteries that he that's been around

27:46

the 90s. That he occasionally looks

27:48

at for composition, but he's mostly

27:50

just looking at the actors right

27:53

in front of his eyes. And

27:56

so you're unaware of the huge, huge

27:58

trappings of a studio. pictures. The only

28:00

time would be like I remember on the

28:02

big some of the big set pieces on

28:05

Inception for example, you have a couple of

28:07

cameras out and we'd all stand around and

28:09

watch those or similarly on some of the

28:11

Batman's but generally for performance it's

28:13

that and I think that that intimacy

28:15

or that focus on performance is what

28:18

elevates his films above others is that

28:20

it's all about performance. And

28:23

there are other things that you and

28:25

other actors who work with him have talked

28:27

about as you know they some people kind

28:29

of present

28:32

them as as oddities or eccentricities of

28:34

his but like it does sound like

28:36

it's with a eye

28:39

towards the kind of environment

28:42

that you're creating the environment that you're talking about but

28:44

like no phones on

28:46

set. Yeah. No kind

28:49

of chit chat really. Yeah

28:52

I'll come back to that. Okay we'll go back to

28:54

that. You know just just that kind of thing where

28:56

it's like minimal distraction. Yeah he's not a big fan

28:59

of toilet

29:01

breaks either.

29:04

The no phones

29:06

thing though I am a big advocate

29:09

of that as well. I don't think they belong in

29:11

any work. Yeah right. Workplace environment.

29:13

They shouldn't be there. You know we're

29:15

here to work. Right. Not to scroll.

29:17

Right. And I think they

29:19

should be banned. But the

29:22

chit chat no we're there we do have a laugh

29:24

and we do we do when

29:26

there's time but he uses time

29:28

incredibly well on a film set.

29:30

There isn't like a lot of

29:32

the waste and faff and chat

29:35

about nothing. Yeah. That doesn't exist

29:37

on a Chris Nolan set. Like we'll do a

29:39

lot of talking in pre-production but when we're on

29:41

set we're on set to work. Right. And I

29:43

love that. And you know if we want to

29:45

find something we're not going to find this chatting

29:48

about it. We're going to find it through trying it out

29:51

and that's what we do. And it's

29:53

a joy because it's very very

29:55

rigorous and focused. But

29:58

to me that's just kind of A

30:00

lot logical, you know, I think these

30:02

other conventions build up because they're easy,

30:05

but it doesn't mean that they're better there's

30:07

also a thing where I think you've talked about

30:09

sort of a sense of Everyone's

30:12

an equal partner in a sense on the set

30:14

you've talked about. I think it

30:16

was with even Oppenheimer where You

30:18

know you guys are staying in a

30:21

motel by the freeway or every no

30:23

personal makeup people No, sort of I

30:25

mean we did something with downie a

30:27

while back You're saying wait a minute.

30:29

You're saying no no per like minimal

30:31

per diem like you're giving this is

30:33

my laundry bill And you're that's my

30:35

that's my so just like For

30:38

other people as you've seen them because you've

30:40

been there since oh five as people come

30:42

in and out of his movies Is it

30:44

seems like a bit of a learning curve

30:46

for other people? I suppose it

30:48

can be I suppose it

30:51

can be he doesn't really hire a movie star

30:53

He hires actors and that's the distinction that he

30:55

makes and they may be To

30:58

the rest of us movie stars, but when they come to work at a Christopher

31:00

Nolan said it's actors that but you know that

31:03

thing about staying in motels by the freeway Chris

31:05

is also staying in the motels with it. You

31:07

know what I mean? It's not he's not often

31:09

the fancy hotels summer He's there the same as

31:11

the rest of us getting the bus

31:13

to work and all of that like so He's mucking

31:15

in he's leading from the front and leading by example

31:18

You know so there's no there isn't one rule for

31:20

that him and one rule one rule for us, but

31:23

it's just I think trying to Take

31:26

away a lot of

31:28

the superfluous Waste and

31:30

time and expense yeah that goes that has

31:32

grown up around Movie

31:34

making and if you know if you

31:36

have laser focus in what you need

31:39

and you know exactly what what shot you need

31:41

Then you don't need a lot of these other

31:43

peripheral things, but you know that other filmmakers. I

31:45

think rely on So

31:48

it's incredibly lean Set

31:50

but I've never seen crews work as

31:52

fast But with such kind

31:55

of joy they all want to be there working

31:57

with him because he just knows

31:59

what he wants It seems

32:01

like you that may be

32:03

what you've just said knowing what you want Maybe

32:06

the most you know No matter who the filmmaker

32:08

is in some ways the most important thing to

32:10

you as an actor to know that your director

32:13

has a vision and is in

32:15

control because you've often talked about the fact

32:17

that The film you made with

32:19

Ken Loach the way the shakes to barley Comes

32:22

out in oh six the year after Batman Begins

32:24

won the palm at can but

32:26

you know in terms of scale Couldn't

32:28

be more different than some of these

32:30

Nolan movies and yet and again you

32:32

auditioned like six times Yeah, this part

32:34

is a med student turned freedom fighter

32:37

in the early 20s but

32:39

but you've spoken about it as One

32:43

of your favorite acting experiences and it's

32:45

yeah totally different from anything you would

32:47

have ever done with Nolan but similarly

32:49

gratifying What what was it about Loach

32:52

and that film? That

32:54

yeah that profoundly kind

32:56

of changed how I approach

32:59

a work screen acting Because

33:02

those of you don't know how

33:04

Ken works it well the way he works

33:07

I we don't get a script the actors don't get a

33:09

script everything is shot in Chronological

33:12

order he just insists upon that which is

33:14

you never ever ever ever get on a

33:16

film set because logistics don't allow for that

33:18

You don't you know return to locations. It

33:20

doesn't make any sense, but he

33:22

does it and So you

33:25

what happens is that you experience a

33:27

lot of what the character is experienced in?

33:30

real time in in camera and

33:32

so There is no time

33:35

to prepare or intellectualize or you just

33:37

it just happens and so you get

33:39

this Incredibly honest honest reaction from the

33:41

actors and you're processing the information as

33:43

you go through the story as the

33:45

character would be So all

33:47

your you know highly annotated scripts and

33:50

pretentious notes and like you know all

33:52

that stuff goes out the doors It's

33:54

you useless to you and For

33:57

me it became a massive

33:59

moment for me because I had a kind of

34:01

epiphany which is that nobody

34:03

cares about all your research

34:05

and your weeks and weeks. All people care about it

34:08

as the truth on the screen and

34:10

you can do all the research and I still do

34:12

it but I just park it when I get upset

34:14

because it's just to be present in

34:16

the moment experiencing what's happening.

34:18

That's what matters and if

34:21

it's not glamorous or sexy or grandstanding, that's

34:23

okay too but if it's closer to the

34:25

truth, that's what people respond

34:28

to. And sometimes with his films and

34:30

I guess this film in particular, if

34:33

you look surprised, it's because you actually were surprised,

34:35

right? I mean there were things that you didn't

34:37

expect that are just thrown into a take. Yeah.

34:40

So things are less considered. Speeches

34:43

are less considered. People stumble over the words. People

34:46

struggle to find the right thing to say and that's

34:48

what we do as human beings. That

34:52

system clearly can't apply on many,

34:54

many films. And Ken is one of the

34:56

greatest filmmakers in the world and he's a

34:58

master and he's devalued this way of working

35:01

because it suits him and suits the stories

35:03

that he tells. But for me,

35:05

it was a huge, huge lesson, one that

35:07

I've never forgotten that I still use. Wow.

35:10

Now the year after that, you are back with

35:12

Danny Boyle but that doesn't just because you

35:15

and he made the film that became this giant

35:17

hit doesn't mean it's like the part is yours.

35:20

It sounds like this was another one you had to earn

35:22

it, right? Yes, we did. And

35:25

I should say I'm talking about Sunshine. This is where you

35:27

are playing your first brilliant

35:30

man of science and

35:32

in this case, one of eight people sent on a mission

35:34

to reignite the sun

35:36

and so Danny, I guess,

35:39

mentions that it exists and do you want to read for

35:41

it or what was it? I knew that he was seeing

35:43

other people as well but

35:47

again, I said, let me read

35:49

a few. If that's the case, I'll

35:51

just read a few and I did. And

35:53

he gave it to me and it's a film

35:55

I really love that movie. I

35:59

haven't seen it. in a long time, but I

36:02

loved making it. I loved the script. I

36:04

think it looks extraordinary. I think the performances

36:06

in it, like the cast is insane. And

36:09

for whatever reason, it didn't kind

36:11

of connect in a box

36:14

office suit, you sort of away, but a lot

36:16

of people, it's grown in stature. A lot of

36:18

people love it now as a

36:20

kind of a classic modern sci-fi. Well,

36:22

and I guess on your, from

36:25

your part of that, I wonder

36:27

how you thought, I mean, for, I

36:29

don't know that you'd ever yet played somebody who, there's

36:32

not a man of a lot of words. And

36:34

so here you're doing a lot

36:37

of acting without dialogue. And

36:39

then also a lot of acting, I

36:42

imagine, opposite green screens and stuff like

36:44

that. There wasn't actually that much. I

36:46

have, in my career today, I think

36:49

maybe I've done, I don't

36:51

think I've done any green screen acting. Really? The

36:53

only bit and sunshine was that big sequence at

36:56

the end, you know, when he meets the sun,

36:58

when they have this kind of communion, that

37:00

was, there was some green screen elements

37:02

there, but there was also a huge

37:05

wall of lights. They built this huge

37:07

lighting rig to move towards me. So

37:09

you could, so I have never been

37:11

in a green room ever. We built

37:13

the whole spaceship for sunshine. Like the

37:15

whole thing was built. So

37:17

I've actually never done any

37:20

proper green screen acting. I've never acted to

37:22

a tennis ball. I've never done any of that. So

37:24

I'm very unfamiliar with it. And I think I'm just

37:26

terrible at it. I

37:28

think I got the sense that you kind of do relish

37:31

the challenge of communicating without words. Is

37:33

that what you get? I've always loved

37:36

that. And it

37:38

actually, weirdly for me, goes back to music.

37:41

Because I remember playing with my friends

37:44

and a lot of the stuff we used to

37:46

play was instrumental music and it was communicating

37:50

to each other without

37:52

any words. But we knew what we were saying to each

37:54

other and we could tell where we were going and

37:57

the music, we would kind of echo each other. respond

38:00

to each other, I think

38:02

you can do that in acting. You

38:04

know, and I love, love silence

38:07

in films. I'm a huge fan of

38:09

it. So I'm

38:11

always trying to cut my own lines because

38:15

I think if

38:17

you can do it without talking or telling,

38:20

then it's more powerful. Yeah. Quick

38:22

thing about the ending of Sunshine. It's

38:24

really interesting and kind of open to interpretation

38:26

as far as whether or not what we're

38:28

being shown actually is occurring.

38:32

What was your read on that as you

38:34

played it? You mean the monster at the

38:36

end? Yeah, the metaphysical stuff. Yeah,

38:38

I will never give an answer. I was trying.

38:40

I had to try. I think it's always better

38:43

to leave it. I mean, you know, like people

38:45

ask me about the spinning top and insep I

38:49

love it when things are ambiguous. Everyone has a point of

38:51

view. That's that's what art

38:53

should do is make everyone have

38:55

a different perspective. Well,

38:57

as long as you mention inception, let's let's

38:59

say this was the first non Batman

39:02

Nolan movie that you did with

39:04

Nolan comes out in 2010. You're

39:08

the sky Robert Fisher, the heir to

39:10

a rich businessman who has to be,

39:12

I guess, incepted is the word or

39:15

infiltrated by Leonardo DiCaprio's character to try

39:17

to convince him to break up the

39:19

conglomerate that's going to inherit the that

39:22

he's about to inherit in the interest of global

39:25

peace. For something like

39:28

that project, was

39:30

it different at all? Didn't Nolan work

39:32

differently than when he's doing the Batman

39:34

movies or just and will obviously come

39:36

to I guess I can bring it

39:39

in here as well. Dunkirk was in

39:41

2017 where you're playing the shell

39:43

shocked army officer who's rescued by

39:45

Kenneth Branagh's character there. But

39:47

just, you know, is it at

39:49

all different working with Nolan when it's not

39:51

a you know,

39:54

when it's not the Batman type movie?

39:56

No, his his his his approach is

39:58

the same. I think the thing

40:01

about Inception was that he had lived

40:04

with that story for 10 years before

40:06

he got to make it. And

40:09

it was an extraordinary script.

40:13

I just don't know how he managed to

40:15

put that on paper and then to make it into

40:17

a film. And then for it to be this staggering

40:20

juggernaut of a

40:22

success. And

40:26

I was just thrilled for him

40:28

to be making a truly original

40:31

Christopher Nolan film. And

40:36

again, it was a stunning cast and we

40:38

got to fly around the place making it.

40:41

I think what he came to me on that one was

40:44

for it was the kind of emotional core of it. This

40:47

sport brass of a

40:49

boy man has this

40:51

kind of awakening with his father. And it

40:53

was really lovely to try and play that

40:55

because again, that had to be truthful and

40:58

honest for the rest of the movie to

41:00

work in terms of the plot. And

41:02

that scene with Pete Possilwave was

41:05

one of my faves in

41:08

my career because he was

41:10

so bloody brilliant and so generous in

41:12

that scene. And I

41:14

remember we really had to get somewhere there

41:17

and he couldn't have been sweeter

41:21

and more giving in

41:23

that scene. And again, I think sometimes

41:26

in those scenes, I mean, Chris, like we don't talk about it

41:28

too much. We just we both know what needs

41:30

to be done and he'll just

41:32

say, right off you go. And we just do it

41:34

and occasionally he'll come in and adjust. He

41:37

gives the best, best notes. But

41:39

I love the fact that we don't need to

41:42

talk about it. We both

41:44

understand at this point and we

41:46

both trust each other. We both know what the outcome

41:48

needs to be. And it was

41:50

a similar thing where Dunkirk, it's not

41:52

a ton of screen time or whatever, but

41:54

it's a powerful, powerful moment. How

41:57

did he guide you on that one,

41:59

if at all? There's a story he likes to

42:01

tell about this one. I did a Q and A

42:03

with him last night and he said, he was like,

42:05

you know, Killian asked actually what I sent him this,

42:07

he said, can I play a Spitfire pile instead? Apparently

42:09

I did. But

42:11

he said that this part wasn't

42:13

really finished. And

42:16

he said, but I need you to come out on this

42:18

boat with me and we'll finish it together, we'll find an

42:20

ending for him. And we did that whole sort of the

42:23

bit where at the end,

42:25

Rylan's kind of puts his hand and

42:27

shoulder and it's almost like the closing of

42:29

a circle that, you know, he's lost his

42:31

son and then this is, you know, it's

42:34

kind of an emotional closure,

42:37

if you like. And so

42:40

that was amazing that Chris would have that faith in me

42:42

to bring me out onto a boat and for

42:45

four weeks and we'd figure it out together. And I

42:47

knew there wasn't that much screen time, but I knew

42:49

that the bit that I had, I could make an

42:51

impact with. And he represented all of those soldiers

42:55

that came back who were just broken

42:57

and they didn't take care of them

42:59

because that PTSD didn't exist. So

43:04

I felt

43:06

a kind of sense of responsibility. And

43:10

even though Dunkirk came

43:12

after or in the midst of this next

43:15

project I'm going to bring up, there

43:17

is that PTSD, I think

43:19

commonality with Peaky Blinders.

43:21

Yeah. And again,

43:24

if anyone's living under Iraq, this

43:26

is Tommy Shelby, leader of this

43:29

Birmingham gang called

43:31

Peaky Blinders during the years between World War I and

43:33

World War II. Steven Knight's

43:36

show Six Seasons between 2013 and 2022, I

43:38

guess sort of inspired by

43:43

Steven says his father's uncles or

43:45

had been in the actual Peaky

43:47

Blinders. But the

43:50

question here is, so this comes along

43:53

right around the time you're doing the Dark Knight

43:55

Rises, I think,

43:57

approximately and goes

43:59

on. on the TV for the first time in

44:01

2013, but how

44:03

did this even come to your attention? And were

44:05

you actively looking for a TV

44:08

project? This is just as your film career

44:10

is really revving up

44:12

for many years in this industry,

44:16

it would have been seen as a step backwards to

44:18

go do TV. Now it's, thanks

44:20

to people like you, it's the golden age of TV,

44:22

but just was that, how

44:25

much of a consideration was it that

44:27

you would be signing up potentially for

44:29

multiple years of a character on

44:31

a show? Well, there's a couple of answers to

44:33

that. The first one is that

44:35

I've never had a kind of a preference for

44:38

the medium. To me, it's always the story and the

44:40

part. And that's why I've moved between theater and film

44:42

and television. I'll follow the good

44:45

writing, wherever it's to be found. And

44:48

when I did sign up

44:50

for it, we were just contracted

44:52

to one series on BBC Two.

44:55

And in fact, I think all the

44:57

way through, it was like they

45:00

would re-contract you every season, but it never was

45:02

like, right, we have you for 10 years, like

45:04

we do over here. So that was kind

45:07

of freeing. And

45:09

then I was aware at that time, I remember I'd

45:11

watched The Wire, the whole thing,

45:14

I was blown away by it. And I

45:16

remember saying to my age, and is there

45:18

any Irish or British version of

45:20

this that exists? Because at that time,

45:22

they weren't being made, like

45:25

you guys make it here. And then two

45:27

days later, these two scripts came

45:29

in from Steven Nice. And

45:32

I read them and said, I gotta play that part. That's

45:34

extraordinary writing. Now, my

45:36

sense is from things I've read, there was some

45:39

skepticism on the part of people involved with the

45:41

show, and maybe even on your own

45:44

part about, I mean, here, you're being asked

45:46

to play this very

45:49

kind of physically centric, imposing

45:51

guy. I read

45:54

that there was even some, maybe

45:56

a text that sealed the deal, or dressing that,

45:58

but what was... that

46:00

all about for as far as you could tell in terms

46:02

of just having to

46:05

convince people maybe yourself

46:07

that this was a part you could

46:09

physically inhabit. Yeah I think up until

46:11

that point you know I

46:14

had never been considered for those types of roles

46:16

like you say like the kind of tough physically

46:20

imposing characters

46:22

and you know he is this decorated

46:24

soldier that's could just come back from

46:27

the trenches and like

46:30

he's very capable

46:32

physically and violence is

46:34

just a form of expression for him all of those

46:36

things so but I kind

46:38

of felt like I could do it but I knew that I

46:40

needed to go and work on it but

46:43

I've always felt like you know your body is part of your

46:46

tool as one of your tools as an actor in that

46:48

you you know you condition it for

46:50

the parts and I

46:53

remember saying to the piggy people like I

46:55

know when I walked in the room today you

46:57

know like with

47:00

my floppy hair and my skinny jeans that's

47:03

not the vision that you have in your

47:05

head but if

47:07

you give me time I can do it for you

47:10

just trust me I can do it and

47:12

I think apparently I sent a text

47:14

to Steve Knight

47:16

saying remember I'm an actor and

47:19

afterwards after our meeting yeah and

47:21

then meaning I can be

47:24

what you need me to be yeah I've

47:26

always I've always struggled with auditioning or meeting because

47:28

even when I was a younger actor because

47:30

I would always walk

47:32

into a room and I you know

47:34

I'd be myself and I

47:36

think like you're not gonna see what I can do

47:39

this is just a snapshot and

47:41

even if I do a reading is

47:43

gonna be like a millionth of what

47:45

I hope to achieve with this character

47:47

and it's we still don't have a proper

47:50

system for you know getting actors to really

47:53

be able to show what they can do in audition you

47:55

have to see the potential you have to see the spark

47:57

of something and sometimes it gets missed and I I miss

47:59

the Lord the jobs because I was so bad at auditioning.

48:04

But sometimes you just need someone to take

48:06

a leap of faith and go with it.

48:09

And thankfully, in this case,

48:11

Stephen, I did. And really, over

48:13

the course of the six series

48:15

seasons, it

48:18

really seems like you arrived

48:20

at a conclusion that

48:22

coming back to PTSD, that this is

48:26

what made this guy the way he is and

48:29

with the proclivity for violence and a lot

48:31

of other aspects of his personality was just

48:33

the horrendous stuff he had experienced

48:35

during the war, right? Yeah, totally. I mean,

48:37

he's such a damaged, broken human being when

48:40

we meet him and he doesn't really get any better over

48:42

the course of the show. But I did, what

48:45

I really wanted to play was that, like, for

48:48

all of these people that there's stuff

48:51

that is so egregious and appalling

48:54

about them, you still have to play them as a human

48:56

being. And I

48:58

managed to get that in with the character all

49:00

the time. And that was a lot to do

49:02

with Steve's writing, which was so multilayered. And

49:08

yeah, you wanted to make him vulnerable

49:10

as well as appalling at the same time.

49:14

And I guess it's the kind of show that

49:16

really is the best argument for long

49:18

form TV because there's no way, right? This

49:20

could not have been a

49:22

standalone movie. You needed the time to

49:24

understand, right? Yeah. What's

49:28

been done to this guy, how he's evolved?

49:31

Yeah. Was

49:33

it something, an experience for you, this idea

49:35

of playing a character over years that

49:37

you would like to do again? Oh,

49:40

I don't know. I mean, you never know. Depends

49:42

on the character. Depends on the character. Like, I

49:44

never anticipated us making 36 hours

49:47

of Peaky and that it would take

49:49

10 years of my life. I

49:51

mean, I did all this stuff in between, you say. But

49:54

it was a gift. I mean, to grow old with

49:56

the character as well and to grow older and to be

49:59

able to... put that back into the character

50:01

your life experience, put it back in was

50:04

amazing. So yeah,

50:06

it's a part of my life and a part of

50:08

my career that I'm really, really proud of. But

50:11

in terms of taking another one on, I don't know. It'd

50:13

be very hard to find a character that matched him

50:15

in terms of writing, I think, for me.

50:18

And a show that could have this kind of impact,

50:20

we should say, far beyond the haircut

50:23

style and all of that, there

50:25

are now piggy blinders, bars, restaurants,

50:27

tours, clothing lines. It's just the

50:30

following is so passionate

50:32

and intense. I don't know if, I

50:35

imagine you feel that when you're out and out

50:37

and out, like just the people, is that one

50:39

that comes up as much as any? I think

50:41

probably the most. Because

50:44

the nature of television is that it's there all the time.

50:47

People keep discovering it and rewatching it and

50:49

people are obsessed with it in the best

50:51

way possible. So yeah, it's

50:54

really, really flattering that it seems to

50:56

exist in the common culture and it's

50:58

just locked in. Yeah. Well,

51:02

one other that I'll mention, pre Oppenheimer, because

51:04

it sort of connects Oppenheimer, is The Quiet

51:06

Place Part Two, where

51:09

your kind

51:11

of principal co-star here ends

51:13

up being your principal co-star in Oppenheimer.

51:15

So just anything you want to say

51:17

about working with Emily Blunt

51:19

on that one and her husband, John

51:22

Krasinski. This is Quiet Place

51:24

Part Two comes out in 2021 and

51:26

then not that long after and

51:29

even not

51:31

long after the end of Peaky Blenders, Oppenheimer

51:34

enters the picture, I guess. Well,

51:36

I went to see Quiet Place, the

51:40

first one with my two boys in the cinema and

51:42

we had the best time.

51:44

I thought it was one

51:46

of the greatest films I had seen and it's

51:49

sort of a fresh French, original, fresh

51:51

French franchise. I thought it was so

51:53

stunningly directed and

51:58

I didn't know John. on

52:00

our Emily, but I penned an email to

52:03

John Krasinski and then

52:05

got really kind of embarrassed

52:07

and deleted it and

52:09

then and then I think it was a year later.

52:12

He wrote me an email saying

52:15

that they, you know, himself and Emily had been watching

52:17

Piki and that they they were making the second one

52:19

and what I what I what I read the script

52:21

and I was I couldn't believe

52:23

it, you know, with that, that's some good

52:26

kind of karma there. But anyway,

52:28

I love those guys so much. Like we've become great

52:30

friends and I they're my some

52:33

of my favorite people in the world. And making

52:35

that film was such a beautiful experience

52:37

because, you know, I was part of this fictional

52:40

family in the film. But then

52:42

I also felt like I became part of their family

52:44

and and and

52:48

then when we went to make Oppenheimer and

52:51

Chris said, I'm thinking about Emily. I mean, he

52:53

doesn't do anything by accident. Yeah. You

52:55

know, and he like me is such

52:57

a fan of her, like her range. She

53:00

can just do anything. She

53:03

truly can. And but

53:05

I think by putting him and or

53:08

me and Emily together as husband and

53:10

wife, I think he got something for free. Yes.

53:13

You know, a little bit, which is that trust

53:15

thing that we have and that that connection that

53:17

we have. And we work very, very well together,

53:19

me and her. So, yeah,

53:22

Chris was very smart at doing it. And, you

53:24

know, just to because that was a tough shoot

53:26

on Oppenheimer and just to have a

53:29

pal there with you she's

53:32

such a caring. She's

53:35

just the most caring, compassionate person. So

53:38

she really looked after me. But but it was I was

53:40

so thrilled to have a pal on it because I didn't

53:42

really know anyone else on it except for Chris, you know.

53:44

Well, so let's go

53:46

back a step because prior to

53:48

Oppenheimer, the five previous Nolan

53:51

Murphy collaborations, you had always

53:54

played important but supporting

53:56

characters. Yeah. Was

53:58

there any indication? in any advance, you

54:01

know, warning, hey, I'd love to find something where

54:03

you can be the lead in one of my

54:05

films or whatever, or it's just out of the

54:07

blue, will you be Oppenheimer? Like how

54:09

did this get broached? Yeah, it's strange for

54:12

me because normally I'm pretty good and direct

54:14

and I've written letters to people in the

54:16

past and I've been approached people

54:18

and said, I love your work and all that. But

54:20

with Chris, because we've known each other for so long and because

54:22

he is such a particular

54:25

director and he works in such a particular way,

54:27

I felt

54:29

like, well, look, he calls me up. That's

54:32

great. And I'll turn up. I don't

54:34

mind turning up for a day and doing this

54:37

because I love those films. But yeah, deep down

54:39

for me, I would have loved to have played

54:41

a lead for him. You know, I think any

54:43

actor in the world would love to be in his film.

54:45

But to play a lead, I mean, it's

54:47

a dream. So there was no indication. There

54:50

was no, I knew

54:53

nothing. I didn't know he was writing

54:55

anything. I didn't know anything. There was no preamble. And

54:58

then Emma called me and because

55:01

Emma Thomas, his wife and producer and passed

55:03

over the phone because he doesn't have one.

55:05

And then we he just said it

55:08

out of the blue. And, you know, it's a that

55:10

was a massive, massive moment. Was there any

55:13

pause knowing how much you would actually be

55:15

now responsible for here? I mean, this was

55:17

a guy who's going to be in,

55:19

I think, pretty much every scene of

55:21

a three plus hour movie, it's

55:24

there's physical demands that this was going to

55:26

have. There are, you know,

55:28

it's going to be a draining thing. Was it any

55:31

not even a second of of reservation

55:33

or how did you respond? No, I

55:35

didn't. I didn't hesitate. I never have.

55:37

I just I said yes straight away. And and

55:40

I luckily, like you mentioned it, I just finished P

55:42

six and it was about

55:44

six months after that. And I was I hadn't worked and

55:47

I was reading stuff and nothing was really, I don't

55:50

know, hitting home for me. And then he just

55:52

called up. So it was the perfect time because

55:54

I could easily have been about to start something

55:56

and not available or anything. You know, so it

55:58

just it was all very serendipitous. but

56:00

I did know that it was a huge

56:03

part, not just in Chris' script, but like

56:05

he is a huge figure in

56:08

the 20th century in the

56:10

world. And

56:14

I knew it was massive. But I said yes straight away.

56:17

And then he came to visit me about a week later

56:19

in Dublin with the script. Now,

56:23

as you say, he's coming to you playing

56:25

a guy who he's described as the most important

56:27

man who ever lived. No

56:30

pressure, right? You have six

56:33

months, which actually isn't that long

56:35

at all, right? To get yourself together. So

56:37

that means whatever additional research you

56:40

were going to do, whatever additional physical

56:43

stuff to cheat. This is kind of a

56:45

gaunt looking guy who you,

56:48

I think you've talked about, he basically lived

56:50

on martinis and whatever

56:52

else, I guess, cigarettes. So

56:55

just what went on in the

56:57

six months leading up to that 57 day

57:00

shoot and then that 57 day shoot,

57:02

the way down he's been around for a

57:04

long time, he said he's never seen anybody

57:08

have to work as hard as you did

57:10

during, he felt guilty, I guess they'd get

57:12

weekends or nights or whatever sometimes that it

57:14

was always, sorry, we'll see you

57:16

later, Killian. Yeah,

57:18

it was very, very intense. It

57:21

was really, really fast. The

57:23

six months perhaps seemed to go really, really fast

57:26

as well because there was so much to

57:28

take in, so much work to do. You

57:32

know, I was working, I was working on

57:34

getting the physical, physicality right and the voice right and

57:37

the walk right and all of that stuff. And then

57:39

trying to get as much stuff inside my head about him

57:42

as well. And that time in

57:44

the world and the

57:46

history and so

57:48

I would fly out to LA quite a lot and

57:50

we would do camera tests and makeup tests and costume

57:52

tests and I would

57:55

speak to Chris all of the time. But then a lot of

57:57

it actually was me at home

57:59

in my bed. basement, just walking around talking

58:02

to myself and trying things out, you

58:04

know, and then sending Chris videos or talking to him. And

58:08

then I constantly just reading stuff at

58:11

the same time and then trying to get the physical

58:13

shape, right. You know, that's part of the conditioning the

58:15

other way. So Piki, you have to go one way,

58:17

you have to go the other way and all

58:20

of those things, but I, you

58:23

know, it goes back to what I

58:25

was saying before about, you know, instincts.

58:28

So you'll, you're never going to

58:30

be finished when you walk on to a set,

58:32

no matter how much research you've done. You can

58:34

do it for like 18 months, two years. By

58:36

the time you walk on, you have to be

58:38

in that moment there and available as

58:41

a human being, do you know? Um,

58:44

and it has to be the energy in

58:46

that room, not the energy you've brought from

58:48

your basement. So, uh, I

58:50

felt like we were making it when

58:52

I got on there. I had done all the work

58:55

I could possibly do in the time. That I had, but that

58:58

was when we were making it. And that was like, it

59:00

was the script and what we were in, what the energy was

59:03

in the room with me and the other actors on Chris. How

59:06

do you know what's, what is it? What's

59:09

your indication about whether or not your

59:12

work is working,

59:14

you know, like it, do you have to,

59:17

is it just, if Chris is happy on

59:19

the day, is it the movie comes out

59:21

and the reviews are positive. What's your metric?

59:24

Because in this case, obviously, uh, it's

59:27

a huge swing as a movie, as a

59:29

performance. It was tremendously received

59:31

by critics ultimately, and almost a billion

59:33

dollars around the world box office. But

59:35

when did you know that you'd done

59:37

a really good job

59:39

here? That's a great question. Um,

59:44

certainly not during the

59:46

shoes. I never feel like that about any job. Um,

59:50

and the way Chris works, like

59:52

you don't look at anything. Like I hadn't

59:54

seen a frame of the movie until I saw the movie,

59:57

you know, and I, then I remember I saw the movie.

1:00:00

Chris's screening room in his house with

1:00:03

my wife and my son and I

1:00:07

knew it was something special, like I did know it

1:00:09

was something special. I honestly didn't know how

1:00:11

special it was and I

1:00:14

struggled looking at my own work but

1:00:17

then the more people that began to see

1:00:20

it, everyone that saw it felt like

1:00:22

oh this is something special. Now we

1:00:24

still didn't know what the world was gonna

1:00:27

feel about it or react to it but

1:00:29

then as we began to put it out in the

1:00:31

world that same

1:00:33

reaction seemed to be the case. I remember seeing it,

1:00:35

I remember I've only watched it twice in my life,

1:00:38

one was at Chris's screening

1:00:40

room and then I watched it at the Paris

1:00:43

premiere and I remember

1:00:45

when it you know the credits ended and

1:00:48

the lights went up nobody got up. Everyone

1:00:50

sat there because they were

1:00:52

too stunned and then eventually people started like whispering

1:00:55

to each other. I felt oh my goodness this

1:00:58

this film is different. With

1:01:00

our last minute or so can I

1:01:03

just throw a few random just first

1:01:05

thing that comes to mind things that

1:01:07

you what have you

1:01:09

made of this whole award season experience,

1:01:11

this whole non-stop you know

1:01:13

circuit on the it's that's celebrating

1:01:15

deservedly great work but it's got

1:01:18

to be a little bit of

1:01:20

an unusual thing. I mean you to

1:01:22

the extent we're part of it as far back as breakfast in

1:01:25

Pluto but this is the movie that there's

1:01:27

not anything that it's not invited to or is

1:01:29

being celebrated. Yeah I mean I think

1:01:31

everyone knows it's kind of not my and that might like

1:01:35

forte being on the red carpet but

1:01:37

I have to say you know

1:01:39

I think I'm getting better at it. I'm certainly

1:01:42

enjoying it and as you said like

1:01:44

it's such a massive celebration of

1:01:46

the film and the fact that people in

1:01:49

our industry are responding so well to it and the critics

1:01:51

are responding so well to it and people are still going

1:01:54

to see the movie in the theater. You know

1:01:57

when we put it back out again. So

1:01:59

it's been so humbling

1:02:02

and flattering. And

1:02:04

the bonus for me, I keep saying to everyone, the bonus for

1:02:06

me is you get put in these rooms, right, and

1:02:08

you get all these incredible filmmakers and

1:02:10

directors and actors around, so you get

1:02:12

to talk to them. And I would

1:02:15

never get that opportunity normally to

1:02:17

be in these rooms with people. So

1:02:19

I've loved that. I've relished talking to

1:02:21

other filmmakers about their work. Well that

1:02:24

leads into the next of these, Rabbitfire,

1:02:26

what's been sort of the most pinch

1:02:28

me conversation, meeting,

1:02:30

experience, whatever of this season.

1:02:34

Oh you mean like in terms of who

1:02:36

I've met? Meeting somebody, seeing, you know, I

1:02:38

know there's whether at the

1:02:41

AFI lunch or there's a million, there's

1:02:43

rooms where it's pretty surreal, right? I'm

1:02:45

a massive succession fan and

1:02:47

adore that show. So I got to talk to

1:02:49

Kieran Culkin and that was pretty, that was, that

1:02:52

was, I was a bit of a fanboy when

1:02:54

I was talking to him. That was a big

1:02:56

moment for me. I adore that show. I've seen

1:02:58

a few of those guys around and we chatted.

1:03:00

So that was

1:03:02

pretty amazing. In terms of

1:03:05

what's next for you, I know there's, this

1:03:07

comes back and on one level

1:03:09

to end, but

1:03:11

also something else was announced today. And so

1:03:13

can you just catch people up on where

1:03:15

the two things, I guess, where they'll next

1:03:18

get to see you? So

1:03:22

we made a film called Small Things Like

1:03:24

These which was based on the book by

1:03:26

the same title written by Clara

1:03:28

Keegan and I had read the book

1:03:30

and I thought this could be a beautiful film.

1:03:32

So I called Enda Walsh, my old pal from

1:03:34

Disco Pigs Days and he

1:03:37

adapted and wrote a beautiful screenplay

1:03:39

for us. And then I, Matt

1:03:42

Damon's studio paid

1:03:45

for it. Matt and Ben's

1:03:47

studio paid for it and it's

1:03:49

gonna premiere, it's gonna open the Berlin Film Festival on

1:03:51

the 15th of February. Just a few days from now.

1:03:53

Yeah and I'm really excited but we're

1:03:55

really proud of the film. And then

1:03:58

kind of as a result of that, Me

1:04:01

and my producing partner, Alan Maloney, we set

1:04:03

up a production

1:04:05

company called Big Things Films and

1:04:08

we are going to make our next film in

1:04:10

the summer with Netflix and

1:04:12

it's a script called Steve

1:04:15

and it's an adaptation of a

1:04:17

Max Porter book called Shy and

1:04:19

Max has written the script for us. So yeah,

1:04:22

things are moving along nicely. Very

1:04:24

nice. And Steven Knight

1:04:26

has talked about at

1:04:28

some point of perhaps World

1:04:30

War II set feature film of Peach

1:04:32

Peeky Blinders, is that going

1:04:35

to happen? Is that something you'd be part of?

1:04:37

Listen, this is the question I'm going to ask

1:04:39

most. Both? Okay, apologies. No,

1:04:41

fine. Because I know that people

1:04:43

still care about it and I've always said I'll

1:04:45

be there. If there's more story to tell, I'll

1:04:48

be there. So hopefully we can make it

1:04:50

happen but I don't want to give people any

1:04:52

false hopes. And

1:04:54

I'll pass to another

1:04:56

one that I'm in advance of apologize for because I

1:04:58

suspect you get this a lot too. But there are

1:05:00

a lot of people who would like you to be

1:05:03

the next James Bond. Is that something you would entertain?

1:05:05

Oh man, I think I'm too old for that now. And

1:05:08

I mean, I have said on record in the past,

1:05:10

I think it should be a woman which... But

1:05:13

I do think it... I think like I'm 47. That

1:05:15

ship has sailed. Oh God. And

1:05:21

finally, I've heard that you

1:05:23

have some things that you would like to do at

1:05:25

some point that are maybe might come as a bit

1:05:27

of a surprise

1:05:29

unexpected to people. A

1:05:31

musical, a Western. What are

1:05:33

just... Is that true? What

1:05:36

are your... What's on your wish list?

1:05:38

Your bucket list as they say. Yeah, I've

1:05:40

always loved Westerns and watching Westerns when I

1:05:42

was a kid at home with my dad

1:05:45

and I got Sunday afternoon whatever. I've always

1:05:47

loved them. People don't seem

1:05:49

to want to make them anymore. I mean, there was

1:05:51

a bit of a Western element and Peaky, I think, and

1:05:54

musicals. Yes, I mean, I don't love musicals,

1:05:57

musicals, but I like the

1:05:59

idea. of subverting the genre a little bit

1:06:01

because I do love singing and I love playing

1:06:03

guitar and I love music so if there was

1:06:05

a way of integrating that you know I never

1:06:07

want to be in my

1:06:10

bio pic of musicians because

1:06:12

for me they generally don't

1:06:14

work but a musical but

1:06:16

like a dark subverted scrunchie kind of

1:06:18

musical that might be something might be

1:06:20

good. Alright screenwriters you have your marching

1:06:22

orders. Thank you so much for doing

1:06:24

this and congrats there's a beautiful not

1:06:26

just out there but there

1:06:28

are so many of these it's really treat to get to

1:06:30

speak with you. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. Thanks

1:06:39

for listening to Awards Chatter. We really appreciate

1:06:41

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1:06:43

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1:06:45

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1:06:49

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1:06:51

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1:07:00

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