0:07

Okay , do badders . We have got a

0:09

bit of a special today because

0:12

in a couple of weeks time we've got a couple

0:14

events coming up , otherwise known

0:16

as the run show , but

0:19

depending where you are , that's depending on which the

0:21

run show is going to be appropriate to you . So I thought

0:24

it was very appropriate to get all

0:26

things run show related and

0:30

friend of bad boy running for a long

0:32

, long time and all round . Nice

0:35

chap , mr Mike

0:37

Seaman . Hello Mike , hello

0:40

mate , how are you Good to see

0:42

you ? Good to see you .

0:43

Like I say , it's been ages I love that you intro'd

0:45

me using the word appropriate twice and

0:47

every podcast we've ever done , appropriate

0:49

has not been the word that let out to me

0:51

.

0:53

I really we've got the person that

0:56

. The person that signs the checks is . That

0:58

is that how you've been described . What

1:03

, what ? What I thought is very interesting . Let's

1:05

, before we start talking about the run show , let's

1:07

talk about you , because what I thought

1:09

has been very interesting

1:12

is the fact that it's

1:14

your evolution over the last few

1:16

years , from you know

1:18

that very first run show to

1:22

now , when , if you , if you look at your social

1:24

media I don't know whether it

1:26

gives an accurate flavour of

1:28

your involvement with these things as well . Previously

1:31

, your Instagram was all it was like

1:33

hustle . I am looking at the run show

1:35

and doing things like that , and now it's just here

1:38

I am going for a run , here I am picking

1:40

up an award , here I am with

1:42

a bunch of people I don't know , assuming , I

1:44

assume their stuff it's

1:47

either you've changed your social

1:49

media strategy or your reality has changed

1:52

. Which which one is it ?

1:54

I don't think I have a social media strategy , so

1:57

I'm guessing . The reality . I mean , you've seen , my

1:59

social media is not particularly interesting . God

2:01

knows why anybody would want to follow me . It's

2:03

usually close up pictures of my face on a run

2:05

. But yeah , I guess

2:07

it has changed . I think well , man

2:09

, if I think back to the first one , which was

2:12

me and two mates in a shed at

2:14

the end of my garden , because we had this idea

2:16

that we wanted to do a running show and it seemed

2:18

really cool and everyone was like who's this dodgy dude

2:20

? And now it's like a company and

2:23

you know , I think this year will have 17

2:26

exhibitions split across the US

2:28

and the UK . We've

2:30

got like people , we've got an office like

2:32

it's got people I know

2:35

and I'm constantly

2:37

sat there waiting for someone to just go sorry

2:40

, mike you're , you shouldn't have this

2:42

, you can't be in control anymore because you're

2:44

a bit of an idiot . But no

2:46

, it's really . Fun is and it's what we've

2:48

managed to do is we've grown it , but we've

2:51

actually kept that like spirit

2:53

of the original place . The shop is as we

2:55

used to call it , which was the shed office , which

2:58

is it's just mates and everybody who

3:00

works is really super fun . We all have a laugh

3:02

. But do I

3:04

get as much involved in the day to day of each

3:06

of the individual shows ? Now , probably not as much as I'd

3:08

like . I still go because

3:11

I love them . They try and keep me out

3:13

because apparently I interfere too much , but I

3:15

can't help it . I love what we do .

3:19

I've got to say that you

3:21

must have like the friendliest

3:23

team in the history

3:26

of I was going to say like it in

3:28

terms of events , you know , on its own because events

3:30

is a pretty hard

3:33

, difficult , almost

3:36

cutthroat , but

3:40

they're generally like the loveliest

3:42

, nicest team and they're either putting

3:44

on the most incredible act and

3:46

then it and in the office

3:48

it's , it's horrific and toxic , or

3:51

or I don't

3:53

know , I don't know it's incredible , it's just

3:55

such such a lovely team

3:57

you've got .

3:58

What you miss is that after each event , they all

4:00

go outside and there's a group of puppies and they just

4:02

line them up and kick them .

4:06

I've heard about the puppy kicking . I've heard

4:08

the rumor that you had

4:10

. It's not like they've ever been a national

4:13

canine show .

4:15

Well , never say never . I

4:17

think in all honesty , we it

4:21

started out there . Most of the people that work with me

4:23

or work with me now have sort

4:25

of been people I've worked with in previous companies and

4:27

we kind of . I think culture is really

4:29

important in business . If

4:31

you , if you're all going in the same direction

4:33

, you all kind of think exactly the same

4:35

way , that can be a restriction . But

4:37

if you're all like nice and decent

4:39

I mean we're all different people

4:41

but we're all kind of friends

4:44

and nice to each other and genuinely we , we

4:46

I mean I'm going to be really like

4:48

management textbook here , but we're like passion

4:50

, profit and purpose . Those are our sort of three drivers

4:52

and I don't think you can fake passion

4:55

and I think if you , if

4:57

you've got that , that kind of sets the

4:59

culture which makes people nice , so

5:01

I'm really proud of that . I think you know we we

5:03

won an award for culture with a load of random people that

5:06

you've never met , that you know . But but

5:08

we , yeah , and actually that's probably

5:10

the proudest day apart

5:12

from the very first run show , when people actually showed up

5:14

and I realized I wasn't a common and it actually

5:16

worked because

5:19

there's the .

5:21

Yeah , of course it's

5:23

a challenging area to work in , but

5:25

one of the things that's related

5:28

to exhibitions

5:31

, related to shows , that is that every year

5:33

you just do a little bit more to

5:36

you know , I say a little bit more , you do a lot more

5:38

to kind of improve the show and everything else like

5:40

that . But also every year there's

5:42

some movement in terms of trying to make

5:44

the

5:46

whole kind of exhibition space but

5:49

a sector kind of leading the way in terms of sustainability

5:51

and things like that . Is there anything that

5:54

you're doing this year that's different from previous years

5:56

? That's , you know that people will

5:58

see in terms of changes , that's making

6:00

a big difference , because I think last time we came

6:02

along , carpets were stripped out

6:04

, which you know when

6:07

you're at the end of that , when you're at the

6:09

end of the run show and stuff , when you see all that

6:11

carpet being torn up and

6:13

then put in skips and stuff like that , it's pretty

6:16

horrific . So that

6:18

was kind of a big big thing . What

6:22

can people expect in terms of sustainability

6:24

in both the show ? And actually

6:26

, is there a difference between the

6:28

shows and everything between the US and the UK in

6:30

terms of what

6:33

you can and can't do ?

6:35

Well , yes , it's all of those . So , taking

6:37

those in order , I guess we try

6:39

and make it different every year . So I think

6:41

that's really important . Like the show , you've got

6:43

to have new features , new speakers , new

6:46

brands . You've always got to try and grow it . You

6:49

can't keep growing it forever , but you

6:51

can keep evolving it and changing it . And I think

6:53

we must never get , say

6:56

me , we must never just churn it out the way we've always

6:58

done it , because people get bored

7:00

of you really quickly and the brand dies . So

7:03

there's loads of new features . We've

7:05

got a trail running zone this year for the first year

7:07

. We've obviously got your Ultra Stage . We've got running skills

7:10

again . We've got Pilates Studio

7:12

. We've got an improved kids area . We've got Run

7:14

Club Hub and then we've got some of the old favourites

7:17

, like the Steve Cram training camp and all

7:19

of the speakers etc . We've

7:21

got Mo Farah . This year Mo's

7:23

back . Well , he's never

7:25

been at the Birmingham show . We had him at South Joe

7:28

, so

7:31

this is his first time up there . So there'll be a load of people

7:33

and the South Joe that we did never

7:36

didn't really attract that audience from

7:38

kind of north of Birmingham . So there

7:40

will be a load of people who haven't had the opportunity to hear

7:42

him speak . I'm super excited about that

7:44

. Kelly's back Ailish

7:46

David Weir . David Weir is a phenomenal

7:49

, phenomenal athlete I'm really interested

7:51

in hearing from , like you've got Nicky

7:53

Spinks , Jasmine Parris , so loads of cool stuff

7:55

. So it evolves every year . Take

7:58

a look at the floor plan , rather than me going

8:00

through and listing everything but the running show

8:02

in .

8:03

I know I was going to test you . I was going to say every single sponsor

8:06

in alphabetical order , please backwards

8:08

.

8:09

Please don't , because you made it very clear that I don't do any

8:11

of the work anymore , but

8:15

in all of this . So the Birmingham show it will

8:17

be the biggest and the best show that we've ever done .

8:20

How ? How can it be like last time ? I remember we

8:22

were walking around last time and we , like , we

8:24

walked around a bit and then there was a bit more

8:26

that we weren't expecting to be there and

8:29

we I mean , we've had conversations

8:32

with Kate . So , listen

8:34

, kate organises well

8:36

, tries to organise David and I , and

8:40

she's very , she's very diplomatic . She won't

8:42

come out and say , will you not do that next

8:45

time ? And so we've

8:48

been told we weren't , because we weren't aware the size

8:50

of it . So what we've normally

8:52

done , if you've not been to the run show before and you come to the

8:54

ultra stage , we like to be

8:56

a little bit more interactive , we like to set challenges for

8:58

people . So you know , if you come to the

9:00

stage , then we will get some

9:03

people to go out and run around the run

9:05

round the hall and time it , which

9:08

normally is fine

9:10

. But when it was extended and

9:13

we weren't fully aware of it , we didn't realise just

9:15

how far that is to run and

9:17

we also didn't realise that part of the route

9:20

took people across the inspiration stage as

9:22

well , which we can warn people

9:24

about , and I think it was a particular incident

9:26

where you were halfway through a mental

9:29

health panel . That was quite serious . And

9:31

someone , someone from our stage , ran

9:33

across the stage at the same time , which I

9:35

think slightly slightly

9:38

ruined the mood of it and

9:40

everything . So Kate was just like , well

9:42

, we could come up with some other ideas

9:45

and things like that which is basically do

9:47

you not do that again ? Do I'm not doing that

9:49

again ?

9:51

No , I think it is . I mean it's

9:54

fun , and I think actually that's . The good thing about the

9:56

running show is that it has now got to a point where

9:58

there's because running is massive

10:00

right , it's not just ultra , it's not just marathon , it's

10:02

not just 5K , there's

10:04

like there's a full range of distances

10:06

and disciplines and

10:09

actually hopefully now the show is representative

10:11

of that and everybody can do a little bit for everybody , but

10:13

it is massive . So , if you're coming , make sure

10:15

you've got either a full day or preferably come for

10:17

both days , because there's a lot to do and

10:20

that's that was always the dream , and

10:22

it turned out that , in order to get the

10:24

dream to happen , the thing that I had to do was

10:26

hire some professionals to do it instead of me

10:29

.

10:30

So it's just not do not do anything

10:32

Like I get other people to do it . That's it .

10:35

There's a rule , isn't there hire good people and get out of the

10:37

way because it turns out I was the problem , so

10:39

but no , the show is . I mean , it's phenomenal

10:41

now . But to your point on sustainability

10:44

and going back to our passion , profit purpose thing

10:46

, I've I it's

10:49

always been a bugbear for me , the exhibition industry , and actually

10:51

10 years ago you

10:53

would see people sticking

10:55

stuff in skips and throwing it all away . And

10:57

it has . I mean , it's gone from left to right

11:00

really , really quickly and we

11:02

try and be at the bleeding edge of that . The

11:05

carpet thing is is one of those obvious

11:07

things that people noticed . So it

11:09

saves me 20 tons of CO2

11:11

per show by not laying aisle carpets

11:13

. It's not quite as easy a decision

11:16

is just take it all out , because you've then

11:18

got things like audio , reverb and

11:20

that then affects people with their hard

11:22

of hearing . You've got comfort , you've got demarcation

11:25

, you've got all of these things that people worry about . But

11:28

we found a compromise that we were happy with and

11:30

saving 20 tons of CO2 . A show is great

11:32

. That carpet was already recycled

11:35

. It wasn't . It was never thrown in a skip and

11:37

thrown away , but the reason we

11:39

saved them the money , or the

11:41

money , the carbon money , the carbon cost

11:43

is because we don't . It

11:45

used to have to be transported to

11:48

somewhere to be processed and then turned into pellets

11:50

, which was then usually used in kids playgrounds

11:52

actually . But just moving

11:54

, just looking at it , is the first step

11:57

. So we started measuring our carbon

11:59

footprint two and a half , three years

12:01

ago and

12:03

now we're starting to take quite meaningful action and

12:05

it's the probably

12:08

the things that make the biggest difference are probably the things you

12:10

don't see , so carpets , the one everybody

12:12

notices , or when we change the

12:14

food choices . So we we have a few

12:16

vegan cafe areas

12:18

in the show because we're trying to sort of food

12:20

waste and general food

12:22

. Carbon footprint is something that really needs

12:25

to be considered , but that gets . That's

12:27

quite controversial . Some

12:29

people love that , some people don't like it . You have to present

12:31

choice . So we we're

12:33

almost like the eternal diplomats , but we're

12:36

still trying to change stuff . But the biggest

12:38

thing that we changed , that made the biggest difference

12:40

, was travel , so

12:43

encouraging people to consider how

12:45

they're getting to the event . So please

12:47

don't take two cars . If you're , if you're going with

12:49

mates , meet up and take one . Get

12:52

a train if it's , if it's works for you

12:54

, run there . Cycle is quite hard

12:56

to run to the NEC . Please be careful if you are running . But

13:02

I think it's just encouraging people to

13:04

think about if you're a running club , could you get

13:06

a coach and all travel up there together , because actually

13:09

, that you shouldn't feel ashamed to want

13:11

to do stuff , and

13:13

I think that's sometimes where the sustainability

13:16

agenda can get a bit overwhelming for people . I

13:18

think you're already doing stuff and

13:20

actually what you now need to do is do stuff in a more

13:23

considered way and maybe change

13:25

20% of your behavior right now , and

13:28

if everybody did that , it makes a massive difference . And

13:30

then if everybody can change , that , 20% to 30%

13:32

makes a difference . So I'm not like

13:34

I'm not like a , a zealot

13:36

that goes out telling people off about sustainability

13:39

, but I do try and do my bit and

13:41

I think that's probably the right way forwards

13:44

. I mean , we're by no means perfect

13:46

, but we are doing something . I think , probably

13:48

good , maybe

13:51

go on . So I was going to say it is it .

13:54

Is it the same in Boston ? Then , like , do you have

13:56

, do you have

13:58

similar challenges , I mean , and is there difference in terms

14:00

of things like health and safety and stuff ? But you

14:02

know , because obviously you

14:04

know there's different standards

14:06

and I imagine

14:09

different venues require

14:11

certain things and everything . So do

14:13

you have to do you have the same like considerations

14:15

that you have to kind of go through ?

14:17

Yeah , I think so . So to the

14:19

. For those who don't know , the Boston Running Show is now in

14:21

its second year , very

14:23

similar format to the running show . So Inspiration

14:26

, kit , tech , nutrition , advice , races , anything

14:29

you need , whatever type of running you are , you can come there

14:31

. There's cool stages and interactive features and

14:33

then things like that Michael Johnson

14:35

is the headliner , michael Flipping Johnson

14:38

how great , we've got Scott

14:40

Durek there . We've got some really , really

14:42

you know , hella Sadeeby , some amazing people

14:44

that you will know and love , and

14:46

he's a definitely definite must attend

14:49

. If you're in the area To

14:52

answer your question about different health and safety , heck

14:54

, yes . So we moved

14:56

into America two years ago and

14:58

we started running our events over there and

15:00

it's just very different . So

15:02

the way the venues work , you have this thing

15:05

that we're not getting to exhibition

15:07

geeky have this thing called dredge , where if

15:09

you want to move a box from one side of the venue to

15:11

the other that's over a certain

15:13

dimension you have to use a

15:15

union member to do it . You can't do it yourself actually

15:17

within the venue . So there's

15:19

quite a few sort of intricacies about running

15:22

events internationally that you would never think were

15:24

a problem . Everything is more

15:26

expensive , actually

15:29

sustainability . When I

15:32

started pushing the venues . I believe that it's

15:34

up to me to push all of our

15:36

suppliers and venues to be more

15:38

sustainable rather than just

15:41

accept what they do , and so we

15:43

have quite a set list of questions

15:46

that we now ask everybody we work with and

15:48

when I did it in the UK , people

15:50

were a bit annoyed because I was kind

15:52

of irritating , but they were kind of aware that it

15:54

was a thing .

15:55

Yeah .

15:56

My perception of the US

15:58

when we started asking was

16:01

that they were a little further behind , that

16:03

it was kind of like we were educating them that this was a

16:05

thing , but actually they

16:07

are moving really quickly and I think the US is

16:09

is catching up with the UK

16:11

in terms of sustainability . The

16:14

biggest impact for a show is always travel , and

16:18

the problem in the US is you've got much

16:21

bigger spaces and people drive much bigger cars

16:23

and less public

16:25

transport . Yeah , and they tend

16:28

to drive to the venue . So there's

16:30

a real education piece for us that I

16:33

can't change , that . I can't change what everybody drives

16:35

, but I can encourage

16:38

them to drive together and I think our real

16:40

push there is an education piece around car sharing

16:42

, because I can you

16:45

know the impact of the actual event itself

16:47

and us as a business and the marketing

16:49

campaigns and so on . It's actually quite small

16:52

in comparison to the impact of people moving

16:54

. So we

16:56

believe that our best approach and the bit

16:58

where we can do the most good is by

17:00

educating people or encouraging people

17:03

to travel sustainably , and

17:05

I think I think that's that's probably

17:07

the bulk of our approach this year . Is is

17:09

doing that . And actually then in America as

17:11

well , a lot of the stuff that we

17:14

build in , some of the suppliers bring in

17:16

like big lorry loads of

17:18

stuff which builds up the show , because we

17:20

build like a mini city in a day

17:22

and then we take it down again in about three hours . So

17:24

encouraging them to sort of store stuff

17:26

on site or store stuff locally is is

17:29

a big part of our strategy as well . So that makes the difference

17:31

.

17:32

There's a certain poetic historical

17:35

nature to a British person

17:37

in Boston telling

17:39

Americans what to do .

17:41

You have to be very careful about that and

17:45

I've avoided drinking tea .

17:49

So wait a minute , wait a minute . Surely

17:51

, surely you haven't suggested

17:54

that they go vegan only

17:56

in terms of that ? Sure , has

17:58

that , has that been mooted ?

18:01

So , because we went vegan only in the

18:03

Central Cafe at the Run Show one year and

18:05

I think I think I spoke about this on one of the last podcast

18:07

and it was only one of the cafes

18:10

. We have multiple food options throughout the venue

18:12

and some

18:14

people went nuts and thought it was it

18:16

was . It was ridiculous that I was forcing

18:19

this on people and I wasn't

18:21

. I'm not vegan , but I

18:23

just wanted to encourage people to think about

18:25

the impact of the food that they eat . And

18:28

it was maybe me being a bit too preachy

18:31

and actually , you

18:33

know , you can only do what people

18:35

will accept and it's ultimately it's

18:37

not our show , it's the Running Community

18:39

show . They own it and if they

18:41

tell us what they want , then then

18:43

we'll try and do it . We will try and guide them and lead them

18:45

, particularly around sustainability . But

18:49

yeah , there's only so far you can push some people in

18:52

America with the catering . Again

18:54

, we have much less control over it than

18:56

we do here in Florence and I think , to

18:58

be honest , we don't actually have the ability to

19:00

control those menus at this moment in time

19:03

. But the more shows we

19:05

organize and the nicer I

19:07

am to people , the

19:10

more we have potentially an impact , and I

19:12

think it's it's it's a quiet

19:14

revolution .

19:15

It's like subtle influence and gradually

19:17

moving things so people don't notice it , but

19:19

we're achieving our objective , which is to

19:22

minimize our impact wherever we go and

19:24

what , in terms of , like , someone goes to the National Running

19:27

Show in the UK and then they go to the Boston Running

19:29

Show , what is there ? Is there any

19:31

kind of difference in terms of who

19:34

turns up , in terms of what

19:36

the feel of the show is , or will it just feel like

19:38

National Running Show has been

19:41

placed in a different place and there's just

19:43

kind of different people , different brands and everything

19:45

?

19:46

Yeah , I think the culture of it is pretty

19:48

much the same . It's runners , and

19:50

the vertical has always been runners , and whether

19:52

you're a 5k road runner to

19:54

a ultra marathoner , off road

19:57

trail runner , whatever it may be , there's

19:59

kind of a bit of everything between you , but the thing that

20:01

brings you all together is the fact that you run and

20:04

we all use our

20:07

bodies to run and move and

20:09

that's kind of the bit that unites you . So when

20:11

you come to the show , you see that and

20:14

it's all shapes , all sizes , all abilities

20:16

, and it's very

20:18

similar in the US in terms of the community

20:20

element to the UK . The

20:23

bit I like is it's really fun . Like

20:26

the running community doesn't

20:28

get this opportunity to meet up and chat

20:30

running . Very often we all see each other

20:32

at the start of a race , but

20:35

you've got that one friend who's faster and then you've

20:37

got that other friend who's slower and you

20:40

probably don't see them during the race . And at

20:42

the end of the race , if you're like me , you're looking for

20:44

a burger and a pizza , a

20:46

burger and a pizza , or a beer and a pizza , a burger

20:48

and a pizza ?

20:49

wow , I'd probably take a burger and a pizza

20:51

to build .

20:53

But do you know what I mean ? It's actually

20:56

? When do you all sit around and just talk running

20:58

? You don't do it with your normal friends because they

21:00

think you're boring , because all you talk about is running . So

21:02

it's a really nice opportunity

21:05

to get inside , be

21:07

part of a community and sort of

21:09

be part of a tribe , if that makes sense

21:11

.

21:12

Yeah , and is it the same

21:14

situation in the US ? That there aren't

21:16

any events

21:18

like that , that most events are

21:21

just like a race expo

21:23

that's normally associated with a particular

21:25

race ?

21:26

Yeah , and this was going back to how we

21:28

started the event . I

21:31

was going to Marathon Expos and I was

21:33

conscious that there were loads of brands trying to talk

21:36

to runners and sometimes

21:38

runners buying things for the race that was

21:40

like the next day or the next week

21:42

, and that just didn't seem right . I

21:44

was kind of like , well , why didn't we do this show at

21:47

the start of the season and , instead of making it just

21:49

about marathons , making it about all running and all

21:51

runners at

21:53

the time ? That that was quite

21:55

a radical idea , I guess , because no

21:57

one else was doing it and still no one else is doing it anywhere

21:59

else that I can see

22:02

. So in the US

22:04

, we've partnered with the BAA

22:07

, who run the Boston Marathon , and

22:09

we've said look , we'll be your pre-race event . So

22:12

the Boston Marathon takes place in April , our

22:15

event takes place at the end of January , and

22:17

actually , so they can encourage all of their runners

22:19

to come to our event , get

22:21

all the inspiration and advice that they need

22:23

, so they can actually integrate it into their training plan

22:26

rather than learning about all the stuff that you

22:28

should have done the day before . I

22:30

think I should say that the Marathon Expos still

22:32

have their plays and they're really good events and

22:35

it's part of the vibe , isn't

22:37

it ? When you go and do a major , you

22:39

want to go see , but it's

22:41

a different . We're fulfilling a different need

22:44

and I think it's about bringing

22:46

the community together at the start of the season

22:48

so they can train and they can plan and

22:50

they can learn and be ready

22:52

for spring when the Marathon's here .

22:55

And in terms of the

22:57

makeup of the exhibitors

23:00

in the US is

23:02

it massively different . Are they

23:04

kind of like the bigger brands represented

23:07

? What can people

23:09

expect when

23:11

they show up with their dollars to spend

23:13

?

23:14

Well , so in the US we've got some of the brands

23:17

Hoka , new Balance , puma , altra

23:19

, asics , adidas

23:21

I've said them in the English way , sorry Adidas

23:24

E6

23:28

. So we've got big brands . But again

23:30

, and it's the same in the UK We've

23:33

now got really good traction with the big brands . It

23:35

took us a while to get there but we've kind

23:37

of fast-tracked that in the US because of

23:39

the reputation from the UK

23:41

. In the UK you've got some of the biggest

23:44

running brands out there , sort of taking big stands

23:47

, so to

23:49

sort of the bit that sits behind , that

23:52

is , the smaller brands that

23:54

you maybe wouldn't see . So the premise was always

23:56

it's the coolest running shop you could ever go to

23:58

, but it's also got all of the

24:00

stuff that's just coming through that you don't know about yet

24:02

because they can't afford to get into the retailers .

24:04

Yeah , exactly that's it , isn't . It

24:06

?

24:07

So there'll be low and for me that's the

24:09

beauty of the running show is , yes

24:12

, you've got the big brands where you want to go and buy the trainers

24:14

that you know and you love , and you go back and get it

24:16

every year . But actually

24:18

it was also finding those little widgets

24:20

or extras , or small companies

24:22

that are small , local businesses that actually

24:25

have something quite cool and neat that you

24:27

probably want to use .

24:28

There's always something new , isn't there ? That's the thing , I think . There's always

24:31

something new coming through , and always , you know

24:33

, it's like the beetroot thing , isn't it ? The beetroot juice

24:36

thing ? There's always a beetroot

24:38

juice each year . That's going to do something .

24:42

Whatever , the new superfood and nutrition is a great

24:44

one , right ? Because nutrition is

24:46

incredibly personal and there is

24:48

no right nutrition for anyone . But

24:50

there are some foods that are better and then you

24:53

have certain properties and you should roll those through . But

24:55

actually my view on nutrition is you

24:57

need to try it and you need to try lots of

24:59

things and you need to try everything and then you'll find the

25:01

stuff that works for you . Running Show is perfect

25:03

for that , because they're all there , they're all giving away

25:05

samples , they're all you know giving you extra

25:08

bits . But we've got new brands this year at the Running Show that we haven't

25:10

had before . It's the first year we've had Innovate

25:12

there . It's the first year we've had Skechers

25:14

there . It's that we've got

25:16

Harrier back there with their sort of

25:18

trail running zone , so it's really

25:20

exciting , as well as all the sort of the

25:22

old favorites oh , there's a company called Zembe

25:25

who are there . They seem to be doing everything

25:27

. Ice bath , did you do that last

25:29

?

25:29

year . No , I didn't do that last year .

25:32

You need to get involved in that , the Ice

25:34

Bath Challenge . For those of you who are

25:36

game , bring

25:39

your swimming costumes and get in the ice bath at

25:41

the show . It's

25:43

quite .

25:45

I've always pushed for a hot tub , so it's

25:47

kind of getting there

25:49

. It's just the right temperature .

25:52

I don't know if it's done yet , but I think we're getting a

25:54

hot tub sponsor . What I

25:56

don't know .

25:58

So say listen , literally talked about

26:00

BBR Hot Tub right

26:03

from the start .

26:04

This has got HR infringement

26:06

all over it .

26:08

It's all sorts of issues

26:10

with that , but yes , it

26:12

was always a dream , it was always

26:15

a dream .

26:15

Well , if it comes off , I'll let you know and

26:18

I will keep you well away from it .

26:21

It's not me , it's David that you need to

26:23

keep away from a hot tub , because he's

26:25

the one who will misuse it in

26:27

some way . That's

26:30

what you always need to be careful of . I'm

26:32

going to put you on the spot here . Then , what

26:35

should we look out for ? Who ? You said that

26:37

you got lots of new , like little sponsors

26:40

not so new little thing . Who

26:42

are the ones that have kind of caught your eye in terms

26:44

of oh , that's interesting , or I'd like to find

26:46

more out about that , or anything

26:48

else .

26:49

So I think there's for me where

26:52

I get quite excited is the big brands and

26:54

what they're gonna bring that's new . So Mizuno

26:56

, hoka , adidas , adidas

26:59

this is the difficulty about flipping

27:01

between UK and US , so

27:04

I think those guys are gonna be really exciting because

27:06

a lot of them have got new shoes

27:09

coming out that you will see for the first time . So I'm

27:11

a bit of a nerd . I quite like that sort of stuff . In

27:14

terms of the specific smaller

27:16

companies , I'd have to give that some thought

27:18

because , let's be honest , I don't

27:20

know who they all are until I get there , because I

27:22

don't do that anymore .

27:25

Well , I love now is that it's turned into the show

27:27

that you wanted , that you're

27:29

experiencing almost . It's like the

27:33

dad who is there

27:35

on Christmas morning seeing the kids open

27:38

their presents and surprised

27:40

for the first time as to what they are , because the mum's

27:42

done all the buying .

27:44

Well , it's like the dad who was the failed footballer

27:47

whose son's actually playing in the Premier League

27:49

. I guess the turn up and look proud , which

27:51

is basically what I am . But

27:54

I mean , I'm a fan like and actually

27:57

I always had this vision for what

27:59

I wanted the show to be , and I could never do that

28:01

on my own . But actually it's credit to

28:03

Nassie and Samantha that they've turned it into this

28:06

awesome event now . So I will discover

28:08

some of those brands for the first time and I can guarantee you

28:10

there'll be four or five things that

28:13

I spend a fortune on at the show that

28:15

I've never heard of before that event , and

28:18

it's great for business . I

28:20

think , if you morally do , you want to support those small

28:22

companies yes , you absolutely do but

28:24

it's also great for running that it's constantly

28:27

evolving and there's more money

28:29

coming into the sport , and

28:31

I think it's what we need

28:33

to be careful of is . There's been some instances

28:35

recently of money coming in and big

28:37

corporates coming in and not

28:39

investing back in . But I actually think we should

28:41

encourage brands to come into the sport

28:43

and I think that's quite important . It's good for

28:45

business and good for the industry .

28:47

Who are you talking about there ? Hmm

28:50

big brands coming in and not paying

28:52

attention to the community . I

28:56

think the other thing isn't it Is that actually

28:58

a lot of smaller

29:00

brands use

29:02

the Run Show as an opportunity to essentially launch

29:05

. Don't they Essentially launch that , and

29:07

it's kind of like a launchpad that they wouldn't get anywhere

29:09

else Because , yeah , like you say , they can't get into retail . They've

29:12

got a huge amount of people in front of them and

29:14

it's the opportunity to show

29:19

their product in a way that other people wouldn't

29:21

be able to see normally .

29:23

And I think that often goes missed . Probably 75%

29:26

of our customers are small businesses and

29:28

they're generally people who are really passionate

29:31

about something . Often they have really

29:33

strong value-led businesses and

29:35

it's something that they've done on the side , but

29:38

often they've discovered something really , really cool . And

29:41

for me , I think that's we

29:43

kind of have an obligation to support those

29:46

kind of brands , because we want variety

29:48

. We don't just want big conglomerates

29:51

sort of controlling the whole market

29:53

. We want innovation and we want difference and

29:56

you want that mix and I think small

29:58

businesses and supporting other runners

30:00

it's really great . I mean , if

30:02

I look at Vic Owens

30:05

I don't know if you've had- on this . Oh , yeah , yeah . So

30:07

Vic and Gav , I mean they set

30:09

up a business selling

30:11

branded clothing and they exhibited with

30:13

us and I think they're there again this year

30:15

and it's brilliant and

30:18

actually they're just awesome runners . They're both

30:20

very good runners , as

30:22

I found out to my detriment when I tried to run with them

30:24

and

30:27

but they've built a brand that they love

30:29

. That's sort of part of their passion and part

30:31

of their story , and they've done it . Another example

30:33

would be Light Up you Now they've

30:36

been with us since the start and

30:38

he makes light up gear

30:40

so that you can be seen when you're out for a run , because

30:42

he was out for a run and he wasn't

30:44

lit up enough and he got hit by a car and

30:46

if you ever go to his stand , he

30:49

has the wing mirror from the car that did a hit and run

30:51

and left him in a tree on

30:54

his stand . So he's got

30:56

a really beautiful story and he's actually doing this

30:58

to try and protect the running community and

31:00

stop people from having the same issues that he

31:02

had . And there are 350

31:04

stories that are exactly the same in the show from

31:07

the different businesses that exhibit there .

31:09

I do think that you do need to be a

31:11

little bit more careful about

31:13

some of these smaller brands , because there are some

31:15

dodgy brands . I understand

31:18

that there's one called Caffeine Bullets that's

31:21

going to be established . I saw some of them slipped

31:23

through the net , don't they ?

31:26

We are very careful about who we let in to

31:29

the show and we've really

31:31

managed to police that . And unfortunately this year there's

31:33

this . One company has got through

31:35

and

31:38

we'll do our best to limit their impact .

31:43

I don't think that's gonna be useful . So

31:46

say that I've never been to the run show

31:48

before . Say that I've never

31:50

been to Boston . I've been to National Running Show and everything

31:52

, and I'm thinking of coming for

31:54

one of the days . What would you suggest

31:57

as my itinerary for the day ? What is the right

31:59

way to , or probably the most

32:01

effective way for someone who's brand new , who's

32:03

never been to it before , about

32:06

how they should experience the show to get the most out of

32:08

it ? Yeah , so I think the first thing is get

32:10

there early .

32:10

So we always do Q giveaways

32:13

, so our

32:15

sponsors are very kind and so if you

32:17

get there right at the start , so before the door was open

32:20

and people are wise to this , so

32:23

it's getting earlier and earlier we

32:26

ran our Boston Snow Show , we did the same thing . I had

32:28

someone turn up at eight o'clock . I was like the show doesn't

32:30

open till 11 . I was like , look , go

32:32

away and have a coffee . Like you can't stand it for

32:34

three hours . So I'd probably say

32:37

get there half an hour before opening and

32:40

be in the queue and then you can get some of the three goodies

32:42

. Look at the websites before you go

32:44

there , because that will tell you

32:46

who's on when and , I think , really plan your itinerary

32:48

. One of the problems with the running show is

32:51

we have so much good content across

32:53

all the different stages you can't see

32:55

everything . So you're gonna have to really make

32:57

some choices ahead of time . But

32:59

make sure you leave yourself time to go

33:01

around the stalls . And I'd say please

33:04

support the smaller businesses as well as

33:06

the bigger businesses and

33:09

remember that actually this is your show

33:11

. So if you like it

33:13

and you want it to keep going , invest in those brands

33:15

, because they're the ones that are enabling us to do

33:18

it . And then I say don't come

33:20

for one day , come for two , because it's mega . And if

33:22

you look at the website , you will see why . Just look

33:24

at the content on its own the speakers

33:27

. They're so good . I

33:29

know people who just literally go in , park themselves

33:31

in the theater , wait for

33:33

the coffee breaks , then go around the exhibition , then , as soon

33:35

as the content's back on , they're back in , and certainly

33:38

your ultra stage has always been like that . I

33:40

mean , it's full morning tonight

33:42

, isn't it ?

33:43

Yeah , there are some people that will literally sit there counting . They're

33:45

like I'm gonna stay here the whole time , I'm gonna have

33:47

my lunch here as well and

33:49

I'm not moving from this seat at any point

33:51

throughout the day , which

33:55

is kind of great . So

33:59

but I think that one of the things probably is that

34:02

on some of the bigger

34:04

stands you

34:06

may have to wait a little bit , because they do get incredibly

34:09

popular . So if you wanna try shoes on and things like that

34:11

, you just dedicate a bit more time for that and not

34:13

running out of time , which I think is why

34:15

I think like two days is probably

34:17

the right amount . It got

34:19

so busy the first day , that first day

34:21

at the National Run Show . I couldn't

34:24

believe how busy it is . What , also

34:26

, what I absolutely love about the

34:28

start of it is

34:31

when I don't know why this pleases me so

34:33

much is just how excited you are when

34:35

you see that queue , like because

34:37

it always seems to really surprise you how

34:40

people are turning up each time , and it's like

34:42

you're like a giddy child , like

34:45

there's people here , there's people

34:47

, and I don't know whether it was because during

34:49

COVID , when

34:51

that notorious show at the Running

34:54

Show South , where

34:58

it was a little sad , wasn't it ?

34:59

Because there was not , it was .

35:01

It got better . It was a brilliant experience

35:03

for everyone . It was an absolutely amazing experience

35:05

for everyone , but it was just when you didn't

35:07

have that kind of queue Now that when you get

35:09

that queue there and you see it and you do the cutting of

35:11

the ribbon and everything else , that seems to

35:14

get you really excited , like oh it does

35:16

. It carries through from that , doesn't it

35:18

?

35:19

Look , I'll never not be

35:21

nervous before a show and

35:23

what I love about runners is they show up , they

35:25

say they're gonna do something and they do it . We've

35:28

got over 40,000 people signed up for

35:31

the Running Show in Birmingham and I

35:33

know they'll come , but until I

35:35

see them I can't believe it . And

35:38

I told you about the first ever

35:40

Running Show . I remember we had over

35:42

20,000 people signed up for the first one

35:44

and I remember then

35:46

we built the show and it looked amazing

35:49

. It was tiny . If you compare to what

35:51

the shows are now . It was tiny and

35:54

I convinced myself that no one was gonna come

35:56

. And then I came out of the hotel and it was snowing

35:58

and I was like , well , that's 20%

36:01

off your numbers . And I was like no one's gonna come , everyone's

36:03

gonna abandon us . It's gonna be awful . I couldn't look any of

36:05

the exhibitors in the eye and I thought

36:07

everyone was gonna beat me up and they were gonna say you

36:09

told us this was gonna be busy , you're a liar

36:11

. And actually when

36:14

the doors opened and it just went I mean

36:16

it went nuts I

36:19

could have cried because it's really emotional

36:21

. It's like organizing the party for

36:24

all of your mates . You've laid out all the drinks you

36:26

bought , all the food , everyone said they're coming , it

36:28

opens in . You know you're starting five minutes

36:30

and no one showed up and you're like , oh

36:32

, where are they ? And it's , and until they're all

36:34

there and everyone's having a good time , you never , you

36:37

never , relax . But

36:39

luckily , with Runners and this is the beauty

36:41

about Runners everyone turns up early

36:43

and everyone goes in and everyone

36:45

, you know people stay , they like we

36:49

. If you're a runner and you're real , you're

36:51

really into it , you will love the running

36:53

shows because there's so much

36:55

for you to see and do and it really is just

36:57

a good two days with nice people seeing

37:00

all the stuff you love .

37:02

Yeah , there's a lot more . There's a lot more stuff to

37:04

do now , isn't there ? There's like there's a lot more

37:06

activities . It's not just shopping

37:08

, it's not just , you know , buying stuff and you

37:10

know there's much . You know I , you

37:13

know what . We feel exactly the same Every

37:15

time you set the stage up , even from that

37:17

first time when you set a stage up and there must have been what

37:19

? 25 seats on our stage and we're going . How

37:22

are we going to fill this ?

37:24

I what when you caused a health and safety

37:26

issue because it was

37:28

the first year we did the stage with the bad boy

37:30

running guys it was . We

37:33

reduced it down because we were really nervous that I

37:35

think we had room for about 12 people .

37:38

Yeah , and we were just wondering how this

37:41

is going to be so embarrassing if no one shows

37:43

up to this .

37:44

And then we think we had 400 people .

37:46

It's not the area and

37:49

David couldn't get to the stage because it was so

37:51

crowded .

37:51

Yeah , it was awful , but

37:54

now we've got a much bigger ultra stage and

37:56

to be , I think people forget that that was

37:58

the first time anyone had really done something like

38:00

this . So actually we worked with you

38:02

to do an ultra stage and everyone was

38:04

saying , well , you know , ultra is a bit niche

38:06

. No one really Exactly , and

38:08

that's the thing .

38:10

And we we're kind of involved . We're involved in ultra all the

38:12

time . So we get the impression that it you

38:14

know from our listenership and everything that you

38:16

know it's really popular and there's going to be loads of

38:18

things . But actually people coming out specifically

38:21

for an , you know , to talk about ultra

38:23

, to listen about ultra or to hear about ultra for the first

38:25

time , like you said , that just didn't exist

38:28

, like there was no , you know , if you've never done

38:30

an ultra and you don't show up to ultra

38:32

I mean even , like you know , actually previously

38:34

ultra's you didn't used to have an expo or anything

38:36

else like that . you know there was , there was , there

38:38

was kind of none of that at all . So it's

38:40

not like the you know Marathon expo

38:42

or anything else , but there

38:45

was literally nothing . So it was kind

38:47

of a pun on your part , a

38:49

big pun which obviously is

38:52

paid off because the demand

38:54

really is there still .

38:56

And that's where we see it . I mean , look , I

38:59

saw it because I run

39:01

Altruz and not very well , but I try and

39:03

run them and it

39:06

just felt to me like there was an opportunity . You

39:09

guys had a massive and engaged community . We

39:11

kind of both felt all three of

39:13

us felt it was a good idea . But

39:15

until you do it you never know

39:17

, do you ? It's always a gamble . So I'm

39:21

really glad it worked . We do the same in the US

39:23

as we do here . I think one of the things I would say when

39:25

on the interactive stuff and we've got

39:28

there's a couple of things I really wanted to

39:30

sort of pick out this year . So at the

39:32

Running Show in Birmingham we've got Traveller

39:34

, actually , you know , like gladiator

39:36

style . So basically

39:39

it's for those who don't know , it's kind of like an

39:41

uphill treadmill that

39:43

can go either medium

39:45

or fast and there's some amazing

39:47

videos of people some

39:51

you know , failing miserably , trying

39:53

to get up this thing and it's really fun . And

39:55

I did it and I think I fell over three

39:57

times and still made it to the top

39:59

and I just I had watched the video

40:01

back of myself and I was like God , I

40:03

really am an old man .

40:05

Well , with a reference . Like gladiators

40:08

, you don't even need to get on the

40:10

Traveller to do that

40:12

.

40:12

So I sort of aged myself . But the

40:14

other one which I really like is

40:16

is this Give Star Boost challenge

40:18

, which is a whole new thing . So Give

40:21

Star is like a fundraising app

40:23

and it's quite cool Because you know

40:25

, you know , if you're in the pub and you say , oh , I'm running a marathon

40:27

, can you don't name me some money , and

40:30

they go , yeah , I'll give you some money . Well , and

40:32

then they never do , but this thing

40:35

sort of turns your phone into like a

40:37

pause , so you can actually collect the money there

40:39

and then directly into a charity thing . So

40:41

it's , I think it's quite cool

40:44

. But what they've done is they

40:46

said , okay , we want to do something cool and interactive

40:48

at the show , and so

40:50

what we're going to do is there's an obstacle course which

40:52

is timed , and we're going to have Team

40:55

Ewan and Team Susie . So those of

40:57

you who don't know , ewan and Susie , the two

40:59

hosts of the Inspiration Stage

41:01

, and people get to pick

41:03

who they're running for . They , they

41:05

, everyone has to donate . They have to donate

41:07

a five pounds which all goes to Birmingham Children's Hospital

41:09

, who are charity partners . But

41:11

if you do that , you get to race and you can win prize

41:13

bundles and all kinds of stuff . But it's an

41:15

obstacle course in the show and

41:18

we're all going to do a trial run of it on the night

41:20

before and start posting out our results , and

41:22

I'm definitely getting you and David on it . So I

41:25

think it's going to be very

41:27

, very fun .

41:28

David's an obstacle course . Well , I was going to

41:30

say he's an obstacle course champion . He was never a champion

41:32

, but he was in a . He was in a very , very good team

41:35

.

41:36

I think we may handicap him slightly .

41:37

Don't worry , We've got your back mate

41:40

, I hope so , I hope so .

41:41

That's not that you bothered to turn up to

41:43

the interview and he's going

41:46

to say no

41:49

, no , no I . So I think that'll

41:51

be super fun . And then I think , if you go

41:53

to the US stuff again

41:55

, they've got cold plunge bars , they've got strength training

41:58

, they've got gay analysis , treadmill tryouts , they

42:00

have this road row house thing which is kind

42:02

of where you sort of competitively

42:04

use a rower . So if

42:06

you are coming , you

42:09

know , my advice is always come in stuff that

42:11

you're comfortable kind of working out in . You

42:13

don't have to be in shorts and t-shirt , but , you

42:15

know , be ready to move , because I think then

42:17

you can really get into some of the fun stuff

42:19

to do as well as sitting and watching people

42:21

speak . I think it's all quite cool .

42:24

Yeah , technical tea is very

42:26

much the dress code .

42:27

Absolutely yeah .

42:28

Yeah , you know you're

42:31

coming to be active and

42:33

you've got to . You've got to as well , haven't you ? That's the thing , and

42:35

also it makes it . It makes it easy to

42:37

kind of try on stuff and see

42:40

what you want and things like that . So if

42:42

people want to come to National

42:44

Running Show or the Boston Running Show

42:46

, what do they need to do ?

42:48

Well , they need to use the code BBR

42:51

, as in bad boy running , at the

42:53

checkout and that will get them a free ticket

42:55

. So if you're listening to this and you want to come to

42:57

either the National Running Show in Birmingham

42:59

or the Run Show USA

43:01

in Boston which is now called

43:03

the Boston Run Show , so it's good that I'm on brand

43:05

Then use

43:09

the code BBR at checkout and it will give you

43:11

a free ticket . So National

43:13

Running Showcom or Boston Run

43:15

Showcom are the two websites Amazing

43:18

.

43:18

So what we'll do is we'll also post the itinerary

43:23

in the BBR

43:25

Facebook group . So if you head to the BBR Facebook group

43:27

, we'll post it on there and also on

43:29

our social channels as well , so you can see what's going

43:32

to be going on in Birmingham

43:34

, but also is going on in Boston as well . Well

43:37

, this has been lovely . Thank you very much , Mike

43:39

. Great to speak to you again .

43:40

Thanks , mate , good to see you again . Well , I'll see you in a couple of

43:42

weeks . We'll see you in a couple of weeks . That's it

43:45

See you later Bye , bye , cool

43:49

, nice one buddy . Thank

43:51

you Really .

43:51

Look at that 9.58 .