0:01

Welcome to Bad Boy Running . We've just finished

0:03

with Jimmy . It's the second episode . We

0:06

split them , but we didn't split them by

0:08

just cutting

0:11

a knife between a long interview . We

0:13

actually did it two different parts because the first

0:15

episode was so good , so if you haven't listened to the first

0:17

show , you go and listen to that . That was all about

0:19

how he changed

0:21

from being a rugby player to running . Within

0:24

two years , was in the world championships

0:26

and was running in the

0:28

finals and decided to quit the sport to become a rock

0:30

and roll star . This episode is

0:32

all about that journey , about how

0:34

he could have lost his way from running , how he

0:36

went on tour , turned to drink

0:39

, joined his favourite

0:41

band in the world that didn't turn

0:43

out well , and how he's now rock star

0:45

running . Punk running was nearly rock

0:47

and roll running and the story at the end

0:49

is amazing to do with

0:51

feeling exploited by the industry and

0:54

just the

0:56

price that on running took out of

0:58

him . To tell his story is

1:00

it'll make your jaw drop

1:03

wide open in disbelief On running

1:05

. Get that man his kit back

1:07

. But thanks to some guys , You're

1:10

going to love this . Take it away , Nick .

1:13

They're bad , they're boys

1:15

and occasionally they talk

1:17

about running . Yes , it's the

1:19

Bad Boy Running podcast with

1:21

your hosts Jody Rainsford

1:23

and David Heller .

1:24

So do bad as we've

1:26

there's

1:43

already been a part one with Jimmy , and the

1:45

episode was so bloody brilliant . We got to an

1:48

hour and we hadn't even really tucked

1:50

into what I thought we're going to talk

1:52

about . Since then , jody's returned

1:54

from doing fuck all or Christmas , and

1:56

so we've

1:58

had to bring him up to speed on what's going on , and

2:01

we couldn't really remember ourselves , because

2:04

Jimmy's been a rock star for

2:06

years . His brain has gone to mush

2:08

. I never had a brain in the first place .

2:11

So we're going to talk about rock and roll , so it

2:13

was a natural point at which to introduce

2:15

me to the conversation .

2:17

Yeah , I can see your little mid-D keyboard

2:20

behind you on the shelf .

2:21

Oh yeah , I didn't even put the

2:23

bass guitar and all of that out . It just

2:26

in honor of you , or anything .

2:27

Oh , you can see the bass guitar as well . There we are , yeah

2:29

.

2:30

Where's my hobo ? Where's ?

2:30

my hobo .

2:35

But if you haven't listened to part one , do

2:37

go and listen to it . It's going to be very different content

2:39

, I think , to what we're talking about . This Part one was where

2:42

Jimmy became a

2:44

runner for Great Britain and

2:46

then in his basically his first year at the World

2:48

Championships . Then , for fuck , that I'm going to become a rock

2:50

star instead . Quite a bold move . We

2:53

spoke about that . We spoke about potential

2:55

regret , if it was a good decision or not , and

2:57

how you then process that and we

3:00

brushed off , we brushed upon

3:02

. I can't remember if it was after the episode

3:04

finished and Jimmy and I were just chatting offline or

3:06

during the episode where we talked about actually

3:08

creating a run crew and

3:11

how it then morphs into something you don't

3:13

didn't necessarily expect it to , and

3:15

then , like what happens when you're you're

3:18

an old man and you've still got this young

3:20

crew and

3:22

I guess it's relative age as opposed

3:24

to absolute age of runners versus

3:26

the crew itself . So we want to get Jimmy

3:28

back on to talk about all those things

3:31

and talk about , I

3:33

guess , the second half of his life

3:35

, shall we say so . Welcome to fuck us , jimmy

3:37

Watkins .

3:38

Thank you

3:43

, thank you . I'm wearing different pants to part

3:45

one .

3:48

Oh , that's that bad luck

3:50

.

3:50

I felt the pants last time were too honest . I've

3:53

got my lion pants on now . Oh

3:55

, I'm joking . I'm joking , I'm just got

3:57

my comfy pants .

4:00

So you , you , you actually a man who wears

4:02

uncomfy , comfy pants at times , then is what

4:04

you're saying yeah , I like the danger .

4:06

I really like the danger . I like the way it feels like you could

4:08

spill out of your clothes at any moment

4:11

.

4:12

Wow , sometimes the mouse does escape

4:14

that house .

4:17

Ever was ever on tour .

4:19

Which was like was ever on tour

4:21

. Would you have the position of the guitar where you put

4:23

your foot on the onto

4:26

this speaker ? You know , fully

4:28

exposing the inner leg . Is that why

4:30

?

4:31

Yeah , I've got lots of like hold . I used to have

4:33

lots of holes in my jeans and my pants from like the power

4:35

lunge the power lunge which is . You

4:37

know you could do like 10 minutes of power lunging and

4:40

it would destroy your pants more than a half marathon

4:42

.

4:43

I actually didn't get many guitarists

4:46

in shorts . Do you ACDC Any

4:48

others maybe busted ?

4:51

Yeah , maybe busted , I think it was . It's

4:53

just like a generally considered rule that

4:55

you don't do it . You know , like when you become a magician

4:57

, you just know not to tell people your tricks . I think

4:59

when you become a guitarist you just

5:01

know not to show people your legs Interesting

5:04

. But I did play a lot of gigs

5:06

in dresses . I had this thing

5:08

where I loved . I loved wearing a dress

5:10

on stage or like

5:13

In isolation or

5:15

with everyone else ? You were sorry

5:17

.

5:18

In isolation or with everyone else ? Was it in a green thing

5:20

In isolation ?

5:21

Well in isolation with all the other women who

5:23

wore dresses in the venue , but definitely

5:25

the only man on a dress been a dress on stage

5:27

, yeah .

5:29

And what was the ? What

5:31

was drawing you to that ?

5:35

It first happened when we played a gig

5:37

in Brisbane in

5:39

a venue called the zoo and I think

5:41

it was like January , so the Australian summer

5:43

, and it was something like 42 degrees is really

5:46

hot , and there was no air conditioning

5:48

in the venue and I jokingly said I'm going to wear

5:50

a dress to stay cool . And I wore

5:52

a dress and I felt like I had a good

5:55

show , I didn't make many

5:57

mistakes for me and I just thought you know what ? I'm going

5:59

to wait , I'm going to keep on wearing a dress because I seem

6:01

to play guitar well in a dress .

6:03

So that's where I started . For college we talked about

6:05

like a Laura Ashley style number or 1970s

6:08

kind of chic type thing .

6:10

It was quite a long floral dress , I remember

6:12

that , and it had a little bow on the front .

6:14

Nice , I was visualizing the woman

6:17

in the Robert Palmer video of addicted to

6:19

love .

6:20

A little black number .

6:23

No , my , my impressive hamstrings

6:25

had long gone by then . If it still

6:27

had my impressive hamstrings , I would have wore something

6:29

like that .

6:30

Because that , like wearing

6:32

a dress on stage is quite punk . It's

6:35

less

6:37

unusual now , but I

6:39

imagine it still would split the audience

6:41

potentially .

6:43

Split my testicles as well ? Yeah

6:45

, it definitely . I think

6:47

I split the band . I think I didn't split

6:49

the band . I was the only person

6:51

.

6:52

Half were attracted , half were disgusted .

6:55

I think the whole band were disgusted . I was the only person

6:57

who kind of enjoyed it . Yeah , I

7:00

don't know . It's one of those things where I thought it looked

7:02

great and then whenever I saw photos afterwards I was

7:04

like , oh , that is a bit . There's a bit too much on show . I

7:07

don't yet know how to wear a dress properly , because

7:10

I didn't grow up in a dress , so I didn't know

7:12

how to maneuver around the stage in

7:14

a flat .

7:15

That's always the issue . Did your

7:17

band have a look that

7:19

you were going against ? Is that

7:21

the issue ?

7:22

Yeah , definitely . They had a look and an image

7:24

that was going against . The look was black t-shirts

7:27

and jeans

7:29

and the image was hard men

7:31

. So I wore a dress

7:33

because I think I said in part one

7:35

, I never really got the aggression

7:38

side of running which is why I didn't sprint in

7:40

, because it felt like a

7:42

weird place to place aggression . And

7:45

I felt the same with music . Again

7:47

, this is a weird place to put a lot of aggression and

7:49

understand it . Put it somewhere else , not

7:52

in your live music . So that's I

7:54

guess . I was naturally looking for a way to

7:56

soften it and a dress was ideal

7:58

for me .

8:00

Well , going back then to you , you were

8:03

at the World Championships . You suddenly thought oh

8:05

mate , I want to do some music . What

8:08

then happens ? Were you writing into

8:10

adverts in the back of Enemy , or

8:12

to a melody maker ? How

8:15

do you then go to actually

8:17

forming a band or being in a

8:19

band ?

8:20

I did actually apply for

8:22

some bands who were looking

8:24

for a guitarist . So there was a shopping card called

8:26

Spillers Records and it's still

8:28

there . It's like the oldest record shop in the world and I used

8:30

to go there and reply to ads for guitarists

8:32

and I never got any and didn't even get called

8:35

for an audition , to be honest . So

8:37

I wasn't off to the best start

8:39

. But then I started training with

8:42

this guy called Harry Jones who's now an

8:44

ultramarathon runner . He runs for Hawker

8:46

, I think . He's called Harry , runs on

8:48

Instagram and YouTube . He's

8:51

done the UTMB a few times . He was

8:53

a 1500 meter runner

8:55

on the track and he came down to Cardiff from North

8:57

Wales to join the training group . My

9:00

coach asked me to take him out for a run and

9:02

just the first run we just started

9:04

to talk my music . Straight away I was

9:06

like this is the first runner I've ever run with who's

9:08

got a similar music taste to me . And

9:10

then he told me he played drums . So we just started

9:13

. We just agreed to start just

9:15

playing music together , just the two of us . So

9:17

that's what we did and we were doing

9:20

that . And then we just started a band . So the first

9:22

band I was in was me and another runner called

9:25

Harry Jones .

9:25

Just two of you ?

9:26

Yeah , just the two of us . We were like a two piece to start

9:28

and then we

9:31

did like a load of gigs as a two piece . It

9:33

was really raw , it was really noisy , it

9:35

was great fun .

9:37

What kind of gigs are we talking ? Weddings

9:39

, bar , mitzvahs , children's parties

9:41

or what's

9:43

?

9:44

it .

9:45

How does that start ? Kind of start off Like is

9:48

it friends or friends , and then you kind of build

9:50

up or you're joining

9:53

, you know open sessions

9:55

, or how does that work ?

9:57

I think for me you started going

10:00

to pubs and drinking , drinking

10:02

a lot of alcohol , and then like pubs

10:04

where bands are playing , and then just making friends with the

10:06

bands . So remember making friends with

10:09

this band called Johnny

10:11

Cage and the voodoo groove , who are like a

10:14

burlesque band and they had burlesque

10:16

dancers on stage . And I remember just drinking

10:19

with a singer and we became really good

10:21

mates and then I asked him if , like my band

10:23

, could play a gig with them . And then it was in a pub

10:25

called the Miter in Cardiff

10:27

and we were playing like below a darkboard . It was that kind

10:29

of gig and that was our first ever gig

10:31

and I loved it . I absolutely

10:34

loved it . I bought like a massive pair of white winkle

10:36

pickers which were like the

10:38

toe bit was so long . When I stepped on the pedals

10:40

guitar pedals there was not enough force and none of my

10:42

pedals were working . It

10:45

was an absolute shambles , but everybody

10:47

seemed to enjoy it . Like I think everybody

10:50

was just kind of looked at us and thought , oh , fair play

10:52

, these two guys are having a good time and

10:54

that was our first gig . And then we just we just kept

10:56

on picking up stuff like that , like just playing pubs and

10:59

that was your own music , or , yeah

11:01

, it was all our own music . yeah , all our own music

11:03

it was really . It was very bluesy . At

11:07

the time I was really into the white stripes , so it sounded

11:09

a lot like the white stripes . You know , it was just the two of us and

11:12

then the studio we were rehearsing

11:14

at had it was owned

11:16

by two guys and one of them was a bass

11:19

player called Mark Foley , who

11:21

gets gets name checked in the

11:23

song by my favorite band . So every time he

11:25

went there I was like Mark Foley's , you know like , and

11:27

he's he's name checked in a song

11:29

called Mancasm by a band called Future the Left , who

11:31

I absolutely loved . And one day he

11:33

just like he just came in when we were practicing and

11:35

said you need a bassist , do you want me to play bass for

11:38

you ? And we were like what , mark Foley is

11:40

going to play bass for us . So he did it and then we

11:42

became a two piece and then things

11:44

really picked up really quickly . Then we released a

11:46

couple of EPs , did a couple

11:48

of UK tours , we did a tour of Ukraine

11:50

, which is absolutely mental .

11:53

And when you say you released EPs was

11:55

what year was this ? Was Spotify around

11:57

? Was this physical EPs ?

11:59

It's physical and vinyl . So this was the

12:02

year I stopped running , so 2007

12:04

, 2007 , 2008 . So in 2007

12:07

, I stopped running and released an

12:09

EP with my band called Full

12:11

Frontal , and it was just

12:13

like real hardcore punk . It

12:16

was great , it was great yeah

12:19

.

12:19

And when you say really how ?

12:20

do you go from bluesy to punk

12:22

Like what Is

12:26

this where the aggression was starting ?

12:30

to come in .

12:30

How do you make that transition in genre ?

12:32

I think if you play blues badly , it becomes

12:34

punk

12:37

. I think that's why I think if you

12:39

play blues really quickly and badly , as

12:41

punk . So that's what happened in my

12:43

head . They were blue songs , but

12:46

you know , everybody was like , yes , it's really punk , yes , it's great

12:48

. So I was like , okay , it's punk . That's . My whole

12:51

life has been about falling

12:53

into that punk bracket without intending

12:55

it , like running in punk . I don't even like punk

12:57

. I don't . I don't listen to punk

12:59

, but everything I do is so shit

13:02

that it becomes punk .

13:04

Well , but also running , running . Indie doesn't

13:07

really sound great , does it ?

13:09

Do you know what we nearly called running in punk

13:11

rock and roll runners , because I

13:13

was so determined to swerve the punk thing ?

13:17

It would have been okay . But I think it's too

13:19

linked up with rock and roll marathons in America

13:22

, which kind of seems too commercial

13:24

.

13:24

Old , it seems boomer , doesn't

13:27

it ? Yeah , really boomer . It seems proper boomer . Rock and

13:29

roll , yeah , rock , oh , with rock and roll runners

13:31

.

13:32

It just screams athright this and supports

13:34

it .

13:34

Yeah , exactly that's it .

13:36

Yeah , it's like nothing says you way

13:38

support shoes more than being a rock and roll runner

13:40

. So I'm glad

13:42

it's stuck to running in punk and as I get older I

13:45

realise that punk is actually like

13:47

a good ethos to have on everything

13:49

really .

13:50

Yeah , I mean that's the thing , it is an ethos , whereas

13:52

a lot of genres aren't at all . Yeah , yeah

13:55

, definitely , and almost

13:58

, because it's so

14:00

little music anyway . I mean you can't

14:02

say the Sex Pistols really had that much musicality

14:05

. It's probably been unchanged

14:08

from having to be musical and it's more

14:10

attitude , isn't it ? Yeah , so

14:13

you're releasing EPs , and what does

14:15

that actually mean at the time ? Are you

14:17

selling them just at gigs ? Are you getting

14:19

into record shops , trying to distribute them there

14:21

? Are they online and people

14:23

buying them , or ?

14:25

Yeah , so they're online , they're in record

14:27

shops and then we're selling them at gigs selling

14:30

them , you know , after we play gigs . So we did a

14:32

lot of . We were like an ideal support band

14:34

really . You know , like a bigger band would take us

14:36

on tour and we'd go out first

14:38

and we would just , like you know , spit

14:40

beer everywhere , fall

14:43

over , swear a lot , tell

14:45

jokes . So we were like an ideal support band and we just got like the audience

14:49

fired up . So that was our reputation

14:51

really , as the band is called Strange News from another

14:54

star , and that was our reputation just being

14:56

this like party band that got everybody fired

14:58

up . So and I was fine with that , I absolutely

15:01

loved that .

15:03

And did . Are you then paid to go on tour

15:06

by the bands and do they have

15:08

your expenses ? Are you staying all together or

15:10

are you like how does ? How is

15:12

that negotiated ?

15:14

So we got paid , but not much . It

15:17

was kind of down to you to sell as many records

15:19

or t-shirts after the gig as you could to make a bit of

15:21

money . And there was a tour would

15:23

involve us getting a really cheap

15:25

van driving around taking

15:27

interns to drive in a van . Some nights we'd sleep

15:29

in the van , some nights we'd sleep like

15:32

on on floors in people's houses and

15:34

if we were lucky we'd get like a travel

15:36

large and we'd all pile into one bed , three

15:38

guys into one bed . So that was

15:40

touring very , very , very opposite

15:42

to being a professional athlete .

15:44

I know that stays with you . Were you . Feeling

15:46

like this is . I just feel alive . This

15:48

is absolutely what I want to be doing .

15:50

Yeah , definitely that's . That's the word

15:52

life . Because you know , like I was

15:54

, I was attracted to athletics because I

15:57

thought it offered like ultimate freedom compared

15:59

to the team sports it always done , and

16:02

I'm thinking my person was always chasing

16:04

that sense of freedom , so athletics really

16:06

seemed to have that . Then I became

16:08

an athlete and I realized there's

16:10

not a lot of freedom here and

16:12

I just thought to myself you know what ? What

16:14

is a similar lifestyle as this , the traveling

16:16

, the showing off

16:19

, the entertaining , but without the running

16:21

? And it was being in a rock band . It seemed to be

16:23

like almost exactly the same

16:25

job , apart from how you entertain

16:27

people . So , you know , you entertain people by

16:29

running a good race or a bad race , and

16:32

then in a band , you just entertain people by playing

16:34

music . So , yeah , that's that's kind of what I've

16:36

always loved doing just traveling around

16:38

and showing off .

16:39

I guess , and I

16:41

know in the last I've said you said that within

16:43

a year you use , because of the lifestyle

16:45

you were , you're partying so hard

16:47

that it became almost impossible

16:49

to go back to running at a high

16:51

level because you basically

16:53

just destroyed your body so quickly , like

16:56

during that process . I think that's

16:59

the best we had . You just completely closed

17:01

the door to the idea of running being

17:03

anything to yeah yeah

17:05

, definitely .

17:06

Yeah , it was . I didn't

17:08

even think about it , I think I I maybe

17:11

kidded myself and went for a few little jogs

17:13

. I remember once this

17:15

is weird I found

17:17

out I was skinned . I found out I was like

17:19

actually broke no money in

17:21

my bank account and the first thing I did was put on a

17:23

pair of trainers and go running . It

17:26

was really weird . I came back . I came

17:28

back after trying to buy something and my car got

17:30

declined . Then I checked my bank and

17:32

I was like , oh my God , I've actually got no money in

17:35

my bank account . So I put on my trainers

17:37

and went running . And I remember thinking at the time this

17:39

is really weird , like why have I suddenly done

17:41

this ? But apart from

17:43

that , I did very little running at all . I was

17:45

, yeah , I started drinking , I was smoking quite

17:47

a lot .

17:49

What do you do when you're , when you are broke

17:51

, like how , if you've haven't got

17:54

a job with a solid paycheck , what

17:56

happens then ?

17:57

The bank of mum and dad . Definitely

18:00

I had to ask my parents to lend me

18:02

some money which I've never paid back .

18:05

And how does that talk go , given that it's

18:07

not as if you're , you're not asking

18:10

for a university degree

18:12

or but like for a car

18:14

so you can then get to your job ? You're basically

18:17

saying I'm broke , yeah

18:19

, yeah , but also I'm I'm assuming

18:21

you're you know that you're going to

18:23

continue to use that money so you can just

18:26

go in a rock band , rather than actually

18:28

At that stage did you think

18:30

it could progress to a career

18:32

? Career or was it more ? I just love this

18:34

. If I get the cash , I can continue

18:37

doing it .

18:37

Yeah , I think I definitely kidded

18:40

myself that I could make some good

18:42

money for music . And

18:44

yeah , it was always like , oh no , this band , this

18:47

music career , is going to take off . It's going to be

18:49

big one day . My

18:51

parents are amazing , you know . I remember just saying like , can

18:53

I borrow some money ? I'll pay you back . Yeah

18:58

, but like just so , a

19:00

lot of the time in bands was just spent being

19:02

skint . I remember like so many times I went to

19:04

the supermarket to buy something . I just had no money

19:06

. You know , I'd gone to the till and because I'm

19:08

the type of person who just wouldn't check his bank balance

19:10

, I'm like I'm pretty sure it was like 30 pounder

19:13

now . And then I do a shop and then I'd have

19:15

to like leave the shop in there . I

19:17

remember that happening before before going down to studio

19:20

. But like two weeks recording

19:22

, we did a shop to take food to the studio and I couldn't

19:24

. I couldn't buy anything . It happened

19:26

on tours . I remember an Australian

19:28

tour where I had no money . So yeah , it was

19:30

kind of the time I spent in

19:32

bands wasn't good for my band

19:34

balance .

19:35

What did your parents think about your

19:38

transition from you know ? Tension

19:41

ascetic superstar to

19:44

going to become a rock

19:46

star . Like

19:48

how does that conversation go ?

19:52

It kind of it goes along the lines of

19:54

, yeah

19:56

, we'll support any decision you make , but

20:02

then they kind of see the outcomes of that decision

20:04

and then this is just a bit , you know , not

20:07

pleasant , not , it's just a bit awkward

20:10

. It's definitely a bit awkward , and then they

20:12

would never outright say to like , you need to start

20:14

running again . There's lots of things , like you know

20:16

. Do you keep in touch with your friends from running ? And

20:20

I was like nah , fuck , I'm a loser , I hate running

20:22

, and they're like oh , but you know , so-and-so

20:24

is a nice guy . You should maybe nah , nah

20:26

, I'm a rock star . Now I'm just going to go down a pub drinking

20:28

, and yeah , so they definitely

20:31

tried to , you know guide

20:33

me towards like just getting back

20:35

in touch with those people . They saw it more as as

20:38

I would as a parent as well . It's like you need to go

20:41

back to those people who are your friends when you're a runner . Like

20:44

this new crew of people who hang out with

20:46

are done . You don't understand it . Like

20:49

, what are you playing at ? What's the end goal here

20:51

? So , yeah , I can see . Looking

20:53

back now , I can see . You know

20:55

, there's a lot of times where my parents when

20:57

didn't just sit down and say you need to start running

20:59

again . You just thought you shit , that was . It was kind of oh

21:02

well , what about you know so-and-so ? Wouldn't

21:04

it be nice to go meet them and have a coffee with them ? I

21:08

just never did it . I never did it

21:10

and it's quite painful to

21:12

like realise

21:14

that's what they were doing and you were just ignoring them

21:16

Because you just hads in

21:19

your head that you wanted to be in a band . It's

21:21

quite painful .

21:22

Yeah , but were there some quite awkward Christmas

21:24

lunches and stuff where I

21:27

can imagine as a parent they'd be getting

21:29

increasingly frustrated and

21:32

it's harder and harder to hide that right when

21:34

you can yeah .

21:36

Yeah , it was like you

21:39

know , it'd be like I think I would

21:41

do something really cool . I'd go to remember

21:43

going to Australia over Christmas and

21:46

then , like doing a tour in Australia , doing a couple of big

21:48

festivals , coming back and then just nobody

21:50

wanted to talk to you about it and

21:54

you'd be like , oh , that's amazing .

21:55

That prepares you for ultra running . That doesn't it , yeah

21:58

?

21:58

And being T-Toto it

22:00

was like , yeah , just nobody

22:03

. Nobody was really interested .

22:04

Yeah , don't want to hear about your adventure .

22:06

Thank you by yeah it really didn't care , really

22:08

weren't interested . So it

22:11

was strange . It was definitely strange . But

22:15

that's just life , isn't it ? You just you know

22:17

you have to upset your parents at some point .

22:19

So what about your band members , then ? So did

22:22

they see it in the same way that you saw it ? Were

22:24

they like , oh , we're definitely going to make something of this ? Or

22:27

did they view this as , oh

22:29

, this is a phase of my life and I'm going to do something else

22:31

? Or were you all on the same page

22:33

as to where you thought you were going ?

22:35

Yeah . So in Strange News from another

22:37

star , the first band we were all just , we

22:39

don't care , we're just having a good time . Yeah

22:41

, we were just like you know , it's just great , we're just living

22:43

a dream , we're having an amazing time . And then

22:45

I got Strange News from another

22:47

star , supported my favourite band , future

22:50

the Left , who I mentioned earlier . We

22:52

could ask to do some gigs with them . I was like , oh my God , we support

22:54

my favourite band . And then they asked me to join

22:57

. So I ended up joining in my favourite band

22:59

. Wow yeah

23:01

, which was mad like , because the singer

23:03

from that band used to be in a band called McCluskey , who

23:05

I listened to all the way through uni

23:07

. I was obsessed . And then Future the Left were

23:10

one of my favourite bands . I listened to them a lot before

23:12

races and stuff . So all of a sudden I was in that

23:14

band , I was playing guitar in that band and

23:16

that band was very business-like

23:18

. So that's kind of like what was that ?

23:20

like , that must be hard . Like you've got this thing

23:22

about your band . It's such a massive part of your

23:24

life , I think , and then you're part of it . Yeah

23:27

, is that disappointing ? Or

23:29

does it live up to like the voice ? Oh my .

23:31

God , it's the most disappointing thing ever

23:33

. It's terrible . It

23:35

was really exciting at first and

23:38

I was like I'm funny enough , like my parents

23:40

were really happy about that because they knew how much I

23:42

liked that band and they were a

23:44

band . You could Google and see they were doing really

23:46

cool things like the Redding Festival , leads Festival

23:48

and oh , this is like a proper band as

23:50

opposed to that band . You're

23:52

in full of absolutely maniacs touring Ukraine

23:54

on trains . But like to my friends

23:56

, they were like you know they could go to the office and say , oh , my

23:58

son's playing Redding Festival next week or you

24:01

know , stuff like that . So it was like a proper band . And

24:03

we won like Welsh music price . We

24:05

won the Welsh Almond of the Year , which is like quite a big deal

24:08

in Wales . So you know it was . We were in the

24:10

press , which I think kind of

24:12

my parents are really proud of that , but

24:15

for me it was . It

24:17

was , it was awful , like that's . That's

24:19

kind of where all all

24:23

the bad things in my life started happening when I joined

24:25

that band . It was , it

24:27

was horrible .

24:28

It was horrible Like started happening by

24:30

coincidence or because of .

24:32

Because of , just because of , like the dynamics

24:34

in the band , kind of realising

24:37

why you've been asked to join the band . You know , it's

24:39

like I don't know , it's

24:41

quite a strange thing making music with people , but

24:43

the band are a lot older than me

24:45

, like nearly 10 years older than me

24:48

, and I became quite aware that

24:50

I've been asked to join this band

24:52

because I'm really young and excited

24:54

by music and I'm

24:56

giving the band a lot more than the band has given

24:58

me . Did you know what I mean ? I turned up to rehearsal and I've like

25:00

, I've got these amazing ideas , I've checked all these guitar ideas

25:02

and then the band became really controlling

25:05

, like I said . You know , like the way in jeans

25:07

and black t-shirts on stage . So I rebelled by wearing

25:09

a dress and it just it

25:11

became this really toxic environment

25:14

. Right , it was really bad .

25:16

Was it them against you , or amongst

25:18

themselves as well ?

25:20

Yeah , it was amongst themselves . So you know , there's a lot

25:22

of bitching

25:25

in the band and I seem to be the person who seemed

25:27

to hear it from everybody , like every band

25:29

member bitching about one another , and I seem

25:31

to be the person who had to listen to it all . It

25:35

was , yeah , like it was just a tough band to be

25:37

in . It was really limiting in terms

25:39

of what you could play . Like there's some

25:41

some songs I play guitar on where I'm like playing

25:43

two notes , always through the song , and

25:45

the singer who saw

25:47

himself as a main song , where he was like , no , this is

25:49

all you need to do in a song is play these two notes

25:52

. So I was going on

25:54

. Yeah , it

25:56

was , it was , and that's when the drinking got

25:58

a bit of control . That's when I sat again , really

26:00

kind of when aggression did start

26:02

coming into my life , you know , because I

26:05

really hated these people I was in a band with . I

26:07

didn't want to be around them and

26:09

you know you're you're traveling around America

26:11

with them for four weeks , yeah , so

26:14

it was really tough .

26:16

So were you drinking out of boredom or out

26:18

to China ? Just get through it .

26:21

Everything like drinking was the only good thing about

26:23

being in that band . It

26:25

was the only way I could enjoy it . It was the only way I

26:27

could enjoy being on stage , because I wasn't

26:29

particularly enjoying the songs , I wasn't enjoying what

26:31

I was playing , so it was definitely around that

26:34

, that point . So I would have been

26:36

like 30 then . So it

26:38

would have been . It was definitely no turning back as an

26:40

athlete . It was too late , you

26:42

know . Up until then I'd still be in my twenties and

26:44

so I could probably kid myself oh look , if it doesn't

26:46

work out , I've got a few more years as a runner . But

26:49

I was kind of I was pretty much 30 when I joined

26:51

that band . So that was actually Stenya thoughts

26:53

yeah yeah , yeah , and

26:56

I felt a lot of me , felt like

26:58

not that I should be treated with

27:01

respect , but I felt like I was like

27:04

being belittled a lot . You know , like when I joined the band

27:06

I was told to have singing lessons . I

27:09

was told the singer used to tell me that I

27:11

had to talk slower on a microphone because the

27:13

audience couldn't understand me because my accent . So

27:15

it was constant . A lot of things like that . And

27:18

I would like you cheeky prick . You know I ran

27:20

in the final world of champs . I've done . I've done more

27:22

in my 30 years and you've done in your 40 . Like

27:24

, do you know what I mean ? You

27:26

know he never worked . His

27:28

mum was like paying bills and stuff for him . So

27:31

I was like , why am I getting told what

27:33

to do by this guy just because he's the singer of my favorite

27:35

band ? So , yeah , a lot of bitterness

27:37

and anger really came through then and

27:40

I guess I hated myself as well , because

27:42

I was like this is , this is not what

27:44

I wanted . This hasn't gone to plan . This

27:46

is what .

27:47

A lucid freedom that you've wanted is just

27:49

, I mean , you must

27:51

, you must have felt it at various points and

27:53

then kind of felt like it was slipping

27:56

away , when you know , every , every time , I

27:59

mean , do you see that as like making

28:02

a success of something is

28:04

almost you have , you've had to kind of give up your freedom

28:07

in order to do that , like to be part of something

28:09

else , and then , and then it kind of

28:11

seems to kind of like see , saw a little bit in terms

28:13

of you know , this is great

28:15

, but I'm not making money from it . Now I'm

28:17

making money from it , but this is not what

28:19

I got into it for the first time for the original reasons

28:21

.

28:22

Yeah , definitely . I feel like people

28:25

get excited by me if they get to know

28:27

me really quickly because they're like , oh , this guy's

28:29

crazy . Like this guy is just mad

28:31

. That's really exciting to be around

28:33

. And then every in my experience , everybody

28:36

who's wanted to work

28:38

or collab with me then ends up trying to control

28:40

you . They

28:43

like , oh , this is crazy , but you're really . I

28:46

love what you're doing , it's really fun and off the wall

28:48

. But maybe , like you should just talk a

28:50

little bit slower on a microphone or have a singing

28:52

lesson . You know little things like that and

28:54

it annoys me . They

28:56

try to harness the whirlwinds . Yeah

28:59

, yeah , exactly , and some

29:01

, you know , sometimes there's

29:03

there is a need for that . But

29:05

I like to think that the best way

29:07

to address that is like just with

29:09

love , you know , just showing

29:11

somebody genuinely love them and you care about them and

29:13

be like you know , I'm saying this as a friend

29:15

maybe you should just talk a little bit slower on stage

29:18

. But when it's like , oh , actually

29:20

nobody really got your joke because you talk too slow , you

29:22

talk too fast , it's like I

29:24

don't know there's that control thing and taking away

29:26

your freedom is is not

29:28

nice .

29:29

And was . Was there an element of ? Was

29:32

the band doing well enough that you were thinking

29:34

, well , maybe if I could just ride this out

29:36

for a bit longer , suddenly the next

29:38

album's going to drop and I'll

29:40

be more established in the band , I'll

29:42

be able to reposition Like was

29:45

that the draw or a success ?

29:47

Yeah , definitely . It was like I felt

29:49

a bit ridiculous about wanting

29:51

to leave my favorite band after one album . I was

29:53

like this is ridiculous , like nobody really remembers someone

29:55

being in a band after because they did

29:57

one album you know , so I remember who

30:00

you would , who you were the equivalent of in , like

30:02

I remember thinking

30:04

of , even though they weren't

30:06

the least favorite bands for the Rolling Stones

30:08

they had , is it ? Mick Taylor

30:10

on guitar and I think he only played on

30:13

exile on Main Street and maybe

30:15

a little bit of Larry Bleed , so like

30:17

an amazing guitarist who did

30:20

one in a big album ?

30:21

Oh , amazing guitarist . So you're just saying is

30:24

that the comparison you drew ? No , no , I'm not an

30:26

amazing guitarist , but he was an amazing

30:28

.

30:28

He was an amazing guitarist who's kind of

30:30

forgotten from being in the Rolling Stones

30:33

because he wasn't in the in the band for long

30:35

enough . So I remember just thinking like that's

30:37

a ridiculous comparison . But I

30:39

was thinking like I need to stick around for another album

30:41

. The first album I did with the

30:43

band won the Welsh Music Prize was like okay , the next

30:46

one can be good . And we were writing . We

30:48

were writing some really cool songs which I

30:50

liked . I was getting a bit more involved

30:52

in writing . I started recording demos

30:55

at home myself so I had I was getting a little

30:57

bit more freedom back that way . So we

30:59

did the album and

31:01

like it was really good . I thought it sounded really good

31:03

. I had great reviews

31:05

much better reviews than the last

31:07

one and then we'd started

31:10

touring in and then that's when it

31:12

was like the same old really . It was back

31:14

to back

31:16

to like just this controlling toxic

31:18

band environment . And it all came to a head

31:20

on an American tour where

31:23

, like me and a singer kind of had like a really

31:25

full on argument outside the venue

31:28

. I was drunk . I

31:30

definitely said stuff I shouldn't have said because I was drunk

31:33

, but

31:35

I felt like a lot had just led to that moment

31:37

Like this is the implosion . And

31:40

then I had an email . I

31:43

went back to the hotel room and I had an email from

31:45

him . He was in the hotel room next door sacking

31:47

me from the band , and

31:49

then it was kind of like I was in a room with the

31:51

drummer and the tour manager and I was like , oh , I've

31:53

just been sacked from the band .

31:54

I've just been sacked from the band you had

31:57

an email that's so funny , so they CC'd .

31:58

So they CC'd .

32:00

And they had an email of him and it was like really

32:02

weird things in there . It's like you

32:05

go crazy on stage . I don't . I find it hard

32:07

to believe how anybody can enjoy

32:09

playing music that much that they get that excited

32:11

on stage . You know , there's like these really weird digs

32:13

and bringing up stuff that I did on stage Too much

32:16

excitement about music , yeah pretty

32:18

much pretty much and bringing up stuff that happened

32:20

over a year ago . I was like , what's this going to do

32:22

with me getting drunk and trying to knock you out last

32:25

night ? So

32:27

I was in a hotel with the tour manager . I said , oh

32:29

look , I've had this email . I've been sacked . He's

32:31

okay , we'll find a way to get you back to

32:33

the UK . And then

32:36

it's just like we met each other in the lobby the next morning

32:38

we were just going to the van and went to the next venue and

32:40

played another gig . I was like

32:42

what's going on ? I've just had an email sacking me

32:44

from the band and now I'm still on tour with you . And

32:46

then we came back . I did a load

32:48

more gigs with the band , still

32:51

in a band , and we kind of like I apologised

32:54

for being drunk and shouting , but

32:56

I was still in the band . And then I

32:59

remember being skint again and

33:01

getting offered a job which it

33:03

could really cool job working on a film set

33:05

in Swansea for a TV show called Da Vinci's

33:07

Demons . I was like , amazing , I'm going to do

33:09

this . Like I need some money . This is a fun

33:12

job . So I asked the band if they had

33:14

any more gigs lined up they said no , I took

33:16

the job . Maybe a week after starting

33:18

they said we're going to go to Europe on

33:20

tour and I was like , well , I can't do it , I'm working . So

33:23

they got a replacement in and then after

33:25

the tour I was back in the band . They

33:28

did some more gigs , did

33:30

a last gig , and it was really weird vibes

33:32

, like really weird vibes . It was at a festival

33:35

and I remember the bassist coming

33:37

up to me after the gig and she was like

33:39

just so you know , if you're no longer

33:41

in this band , I can't be in this band anymore . I was like

33:43

why is it weird ? We've just played a gig , okay , no worries

33:45

. And then a week later the singer

33:48

asked to meet me and he's like yeah , I'm sacking

33:50

you from the band . I've spoke to all the guys

33:52

, I'm sacking you from the band . I was

33:54

like whatever , okay , fine , like is it mental

33:56

? Enough's enough ? And

33:58

then he phoned me up about two hours later

34:01

and he's like I hadn't

34:03

spoke to the other bandmates and they're all angry

34:05

that I've sacked you . Can

34:09

you join the band again ? And I was like

34:11

I need to have a think about this . So I

34:14

said give me like a week or so . And then he

34:16

kept asking me , like I dragged it on and he's like

34:18

I need an answer , and I said I'll let you know . I'm still thinking

34:20

about it . And then , when he was like I dragged

34:22

on pages and said no , I'm not coming

34:24

back , and then he

34:26

asked me to write a little thing to go online and saying why I'd

34:28

left the band , I was like why I'm left the band , I've been

34:30

sacked . So yeah , it was all very

34:33

messy .

34:34

And what's , the weirdest dysfunctional relationship

34:37

ever .

34:37

I know , I know , and you think , like this

34:39

guy is maybe been in a band with

34:42

four of the men who were left have been sacked

34:44

, so it's like it's not his first rodeo . Are

34:47

they still going then ? Yeah , they still go

34:49

in , but I don't speak to them . In

34:52

fact , if I see them , I actively stare

34:54

at them and don't speak .

34:58

And that actually happened .

34:59

I have seen them and you know I've

35:02

been nice to them and I've been

35:04

nice to him and I sent

35:06

him a little email saying it was nice to see you and he's

35:08

like , yeah , likewise . And then I sent an email

35:10

back saying let's meet up for

35:12

a drink or a coffee , and I never you'd back . So

35:14

you know you

35:16

took the high ground . Yeah

35:19

, I thought I'd just be the best but the bigger person and

35:21

just be nice to him and um

35:23

, and so what was happening for

35:25

with your drinking if you're out of this ?

35:27

was it ? Was it a ?

35:28

problem the whole way through , or it was getting

35:30

worse and worse . Doing all this , yeah , um , real

35:33

, real moments of like depression

35:36

, aggression , anger . I

35:39

was fighting a lot . Um

35:41

, I was a maniac . I was a maniac because

35:43

I just felt like I'd ruined my life . I felt

35:45

like my life had just gone

35:47

, gone to shit , and it was my fault . In

35:50

fact , there was worse than that . I started blaming other people

35:52

, so I started blaming my old bandmates

35:54

for everything . And you know

35:56

now , now that I'm sober and I've looked at everything

35:59

, it's like you should have just left as

36:01

soon as it got bad . You should have just left , which is

36:03

what I do now if I'm in any situation

36:05

which doesn't feel like I just take myself out of it

36:08

now .

36:08

So it's hard , though . It's hard , isn't it , when you're in it , because

36:10

you see , you're thinking , oh

36:12

, it could get better , are they

36:14

? You know , it's just around the corner , things

36:17

could improve , and and it never does

36:19

no , it never does and

36:21

it is .

36:23

It's strange because , like , I go

36:25

to therapy now and I

36:27

talk to . I have like an hour of therapy

36:29

and I talk to the therapist and then I always

36:31

leave there feeling amazing , like oh , that's amazing , I'm so

36:33

glad I did that . And then I get really sad because

36:35

I just think why can't I just talk to

36:37

my friends like that ? Why

36:39

can't I just say to my friends like , oh , look , this

36:42

is , this is bothering me at the moment and and

36:44

it really bums me out and I just wish that we could all

36:46

have that kind of friendship . You

36:48

know , like if we could have all just sat down as the

36:51

band years ago and just gone look , I

36:53

don't like the way you're controlling me , yeah , oh well . I don't

36:55

like the way you're drinking . I don't like the way you wear a dress

36:58

on stage then we would have all just

37:00

been like okay , let's , let's try and fix it so we can be

37:02

really happy . You make really cool music , but for

37:04

some reason we just can't do it unless we're paying the other

37:07

person to listen .

37:07

It's really it's really hard , isn't it because

37:10

I suppose it's to do with the dynamic , isn't it when

37:12

you're invited into something that already exists

37:14

? yeah you're and you're

37:16

really and you're really excited and it feels I must feel

37:18

like you know , a real privilege , like , oh , my god , you

37:20

know the dynamic is is

37:23

so off in terms

37:25

of of being able

37:27

to have conversations like that , or

37:29

yeah , yeah , you kind of live

37:31

by whatever the culture is in the band at

37:33

the time and if it's already dysfunctional , there's

37:36

, there's not a huge amount that you can do about

37:38

it , is there ?

37:39

that's so true , and it was a very dysfunctional band

37:41

. You know , it was kind of every time we were practicing

37:43

, everyone was like making faces at each other like this

37:46

is this sucks ? Why are we in this room together

37:48

? And I'm like someone needs to just see something

37:50

. Why do we all just say that we're not enjoying

37:52

practice ? To me , um , yeah

37:54

, aren't all bands like that .

37:55

Though it's , I thought that's like a whole

37:57

thing , isn't it like ? Are there any bands

38:00

that are not like that ? Don't they all have to be

38:02

totally dysfunctional and painful

38:04

and awful and everyone hates them and the

38:06

only people that like it and the people

38:08

watching it and everyone . It's a complete

38:10

nightmare for everyone else involved maybe

38:13

, maybe that's the curse of making music

38:15

because you have to make the documentary the documentary

38:18

that wins the oscar at the end of it about

38:20

how the band is literally , you know , being held

38:22

held together with shoestring and lies

38:25

and and everything else .

38:26

That's it yeah , why do we do it ourselves

38:29

? That's kind of true , but I'm I've

38:31

got a new band now and I hope it's , I

38:34

hope there's not like that . Um , oh

38:36

my god , I have to speak to everybody . I have to say look , you have to

38:38

be honest with each other , are we all okay ?

38:41

um ? Are you emailing each other ? You know ?

38:43

on a regular basis ?

38:44

no , no we you slack .

38:45

Now it's getting

38:47

sacked by email . There's such a low blow

38:49

like when you're in the next in the room next door to

38:51

them as well . That's a real spinal tap

38:53

moment . I was like what are you doing from him ?

38:55

he's next door what I thought , what I thought was interesting

38:58

about that moment , is that you said , like

39:00

the other band members with you in the room , and when they

39:02

you know , you obviously sent that , that email

39:04

saying that you've been sacked , though the first thing wasn't

39:07

for them to go , oh , don't want to get you back in the band

39:09

. The first thing was , oh , we'll make sure that you get

39:11

home , yeah yeah

39:15

, yeah .

39:16

I think at that point I just wanted to go home , though

39:18

you know I was like , oh , I've had enough of this

39:20

. Um . So I think they all

39:22

just thought the best thing for you is to just go home .

39:26

Yeah , it's interesting , they interesting . You didn't

39:28

turn your back on music , though , at that stage , because

39:30

when ? How did ? Given

39:32

at that stage , you , you were . You

39:34

felt like you'd thrown your life away . You

39:36

had deep resentment , a drinking

39:38

problem . Yeah , how were

39:41

you ? Was there not the thought I needed to step

39:44

completely away from this scene ?

39:46

yeah , definitely that was , um

39:48

. My initial thought was

39:51

, oh , I just I'm gonna stop this now

39:53

. Um , but I'm one of those

39:55

people where you know like I ran . I

39:57

ran really well as an athlete at

39:59

the world championships when I got snubbed

40:02

by the Welsh Commonwealth team . So

40:04

I ran the qualifying time for the qual for the Commonwealth

40:07

games and I won the trials , but I didn't go . I

40:09

didn't get picked um and

40:11

I found out during like a live announcement

40:14

on BBC News that I wasn't in the squad , despite

40:16

having my suit measured and my photo taken

40:18

for the program . So

40:21

I was like really annoyed

40:23

, uh , about that , and I remember

40:25

my dad's email , seems quite good

40:27

now , isn't it ? yeah

40:30

, my whole life had just evolved , let

40:33

down nicely . Uh , I

40:35

, I couldn't believe it . I really I genuinely couldn't believe

40:37

it .

40:38

I just didn't make sense um what was did

40:40

they ever explain ?

40:41

no , I never got an answer . I never

40:43

got an answer , but the guy who picked the team is in jail

40:46

now . So um you know , whatever

40:48

um what's in jail ? For um

40:50

being inappropriate with young , young athletes

40:52

.

40:53

So you weren't sexy enough . Pretty much

40:55

pretty much .

40:57

I think he never really liked me . There's

40:59

a few of us who he never really liked because

41:01

we used to kind of call

41:03

him out on his bullshit quite a lot . Like he used

41:06

to have this story and I heard him say it

41:08

. There's so many people that , um

41:11

, he was playing football in a field

41:13

and he scored an overhead kick and

41:15

then he got trials from I United . Like he was that kind

41:17

of guy he'd say that and I'm like what ? And

41:19

then he , and then he tell you that story and he's like

41:21

right , come on in 3000 meter reps

41:23

on a track and I was like why should I listen to you ? Like you're

41:25

obviously crazy . Um , yeah

41:28

, yeah . So you know he was . He

41:30

was in charge of teams . So the fact that he didn't pick

41:32

me , I never liked him . Um

41:34

, you know , so I was annoyed

41:37

. I was annoyed I didn't get picked , and I remember people

41:39

around me just saying the best way

41:41

to answer that is to get

41:43

to the world champs indoors and run really well . So my

41:45

focus was on that and it definitely

41:47

motivated me and I really enjoyed doing

41:49

all my race interviews out there where I said a lot

41:52

about like stuff , like aesthetics and stuff , and

41:54

it's all still online . You can see it . You

41:56

know I was like they fool . This is , this is I'd

41:58

rather be here than a Commonwealth game . So that

42:00

really motivated me and I feel like I

42:02

had that kind of stubbornness

42:04

. When I got sacked from the band I was like

42:06

you know , I said I'll do another band . I'm like this

42:08

band will be better than you . So that's why I went

42:10

straight into music . I started another

42:12

band straight away and released an

42:14

album quite soon and it just it

42:17

totally flopped . Uh , because

42:19

you know , like the music

42:21

industry is not like aesthetics , you don't

42:24

just have to be the fastest to get

42:26

rewarded in music . There's lots of things

42:28

you have to pay , like radio pluggers , you have to kiss

42:30

a lot of DJs , arses . So it was

42:32

a very different game . But I feel like

42:34

I threw myself into it in the same way I did

42:36

with my training before the world championships and

42:39

then , when that kind of didn't

42:41

go to plan , that's when , like

42:44

again , the drinking went up a level

42:46

and that's when I really fell out of love with music and

42:48

I kind of fell out of love with everything . But

42:50

at that point I think I was maybe 35

42:53

, 36 and I was . I just really just felt

42:55

like I'm done .

42:57

I'm absolutely done .

42:58

You've had like that's good five

43:00

, six years of excessive

43:04

drinking yeah , yeah , and I was taking

43:06

quite a few drugs as well . Um , so

43:09

, yeah , by 35 36 , I put

43:11

on a lot of weight . My my lovely curly

43:13

hair had fallen out . Um , I didn't

43:16

really know what clothes to wear , so

43:18

I was wearing really bad jeans

43:20

and t-shirts .

43:21

I just didn't feel like myself hmm

43:24

, so how does one recover

43:27

from that ?

43:28

um , I think you have to go

43:30

through kind of hell . I think

43:33

you . For me it

43:35

was in a weird way . It was almost the best thing

43:37

I could do was to have . I

43:39

never hit rock bottom , but I got really close

43:41

to it , um , a

43:44

really kind of questioned

43:46

like what am I doing in my life , why , why

43:48

am I even still alive ? Those are things I used

43:50

to ask myself quite regularly . Um

43:53

, and it's just so

43:55

odd , it's so odd , what happened I ? I got

43:57

a job working in a window factory and

44:00

I was kind of kind

44:02

of comforted by the fact that I no longer

44:04

had to dream , I

44:07

no longer had to set myself goals

44:09

, I was just living , I was just existing

44:11

and I was just going to work . Simplicity , yeah

44:13

, and I kind of really liked that , that

44:16

there was the first time in my life I'd had that where I was like

44:18

clocking in and I was getting called

44:20

a prick by my boss and getting shouted at

44:22

by people and I was like this is really nice , you know , this

44:24

is really nice . And

44:27

then I think just

44:30

something happened . Something happened where

44:33

, um , I

44:35

can tell you what . Do you want to tell you what happened ? Yeah

44:37

, of course , okay , right , so I I

44:40

moved to a different part of Wales . One

44:42

of my things was I need to get out of Cardiff

44:45

, um , so I moved

44:47

to the next year where I live now a different part because

44:49

, because of the people , because of

44:51

the associations , because of the history , yeah

44:53

, because the people last with the band was based

44:55

. That's where everybody in Wales

44:58

kind of went to start bands . So I felt like I

45:00

need to leave you , and that's where all my drinking

45:02

buddies were as well . So I was like I need to live somewhere

45:04

where I don't know anybody . Um

45:07

. So my wife was like on the same page

45:09

as me . She's like , yeah , let's , let's go somewhere where we don't

45:11

know anybody .

45:12

So we moved to Slandhwy , which is where we live now

45:14

and actually just out of interest

45:16

, like at what point in your journey did you meet

45:19

your wife ? Did you become married and

45:21

what was her ? How did she interweave with

45:23

the story ?

45:24

I met her when I was

45:26

in Future the Left . So I met her on a night

45:28

out , um , so I met her drunk on

45:30

a night out and , yeah

45:33

, like we like we had quite

45:35

a stormy relationship and

45:37

then we got married . We got married in 2014

45:41

, I think , um , and

45:43

yeah , we separated now , unfortunately , but , like

45:46

you know , um , I think a

45:48

lot of that was down to like just me me

45:51

no longer drinking and just this , like just

45:53

sudden change that happened to me when I stopped drinking and

45:55

and changed , changed , changed

45:57

the way I lived a little bit and what was important to me . So

45:59

, um , yeah , we moved to

46:01

West Wales and I didn't know anybody

46:04

here and the first thing I did was I joined the

46:06

gym . I joined the gym and I

46:08

made some friends at the gym really quickly and

46:11

then I got involved with this indoor skiing

46:13

thing . You know the ski org they

46:15

had . They had a ski org team in the gym , so I

46:17

joined it . I was like , yeah , I fancy joining the sports

46:20

team . So I joined the ski org

46:22

team and then , uh , maybe

46:24

, like , after a year of us all trained together , we

46:26

, we tried to break a world record I

46:29

can't remember where it was now , it was a relay

46:31

, I think it was maybe like a hundred

46:33

kilometer relay . So we were all taking interns

46:35

and we broke the world record and

46:37

then we went for like a night out in a meal

46:39

to celebrate and I was loving

46:41

it . I remember coming home thinking , broken a

46:43

world record . I've made loads of new friends . I live in

46:45

this place where , you know , nobody talks

46:48

to me about music . Nobody knows that I

46:50

used to be an athlete . There was none of that , you know , um

46:52

, and then we went out and like I got really

46:54

drunk and tried to fight a few of them and then I got

46:56

thrown and banned thrown out and

46:59

banned from the hotel where the party was in and it

47:01

was disgraceful , right , um

47:03

, and I kept like a low profile . I was like I can't go

47:05

back to the gym . How embarrassing . I can't believe I've done

47:07

this again . I eventually go back to the gym

47:09

and I go see a physio because I'm having problems

47:11

with my legs just my legs hurting

47:14

like from all the all the gym work , and

47:16

he's massaging my legs and we're just chatting

47:18

and I tell him I used to , I used to run for Britain

47:20

, and he's like what are you serious

47:22

? Yeah , yeah , and I'm . He googles it

47:24

on the phone , he sees some photos and he's like he

47:26

finds a photo of me on a start line at

47:28

the world champs and he's like I bet you've got this big

47:31

framed photo of this in the house . I was like no , I

47:33

got no running stuff in my house at all . And

47:35

he just said to me do yourself a favor , get

47:38

a framed photo of yourself in the house , of you

47:40

and GB kit . I was like that's quite a nice idea

47:42

. I'll do that . Um , so my birthday

47:45

was coming up . My wife said what do you want for your birthday

47:47

? And I was like this sounds mad , but can I get a framed

47:49

photo of me running for Britain ? So she did

47:51

it . I took a picture of her on my birthday

47:54

, put it online . Then someone

47:56

commented below . I think it was

47:58

on Facebook . Someone put a link to

48:00

a video of that race and I'd never watched that race

48:02

in my life , never seen it . Um

48:05

, and I was upstairs having a pee when I had the message

48:07

. I was like I know I can't watch this when I'm peeing

48:09

. So I went back downstairs and I said to my

48:11

wife look , you didn't know me when I was a runner

48:14

, but this is me running for grippling and

48:16

we watched the race together and there's like

48:18

a little bit on the start line where I wave . I

48:20

look at the camera and I wave just before it starts and

48:22

she's like that looks nothing like you , but

48:25

the thing I recognize is your smile . And

48:27

then we watched the race and I was too busy looking

48:29

at the race , thinking I can't , this is

48:31

nothing . How I remember this race like I've

48:33

told people in pubs all over the

48:35

world about that race and it was nothing like I remembered

48:37

it , you know , and I watched it and I thought

48:39

I'm really proud like that . I gave it

48:41

a good go , I'm really proud of what I've done

48:43

there . But then in bed I was thinking like

48:46

what did you mean ? I only recognize your smile

48:48

. And then I just realized all of a sudden I

48:51

realized that my problem wasn't that I was

48:53

overweight , that I was drinking too much

48:55

, that I was unhealthy . The problem was that I

48:57

just wasn't happy . Like that was just my problem

48:59

. And it was like such a powerful thing to

49:01

wake up in the morning and realize I'm

49:03

just not happy and what makes

49:06

me happy is running because you

49:08

know , the last time I probably really smiled like that

49:10

was on a running track and just overnight

49:13

I just decided I gotta start running again and

49:15

that's that's what I did . I just started running like

49:17

I started running to be happy , not to lose

49:19

weight , not to win

49:22

my local park run , just because I wanted

49:24

to be happy and I knew running was the answer and

49:27

um , or because I

49:29

didn't know this , this part of the story , um , do

49:33

you think if things had gone

49:35

differently , you

49:37

could have been happy from music ? no

49:41

, because I've just finished making a solo album

49:44

and I had to go back to therapy making

49:48

music . Making music

49:50

is something I have to do , but

49:52

it makes me miserable as hell . It makes

49:55

it makes my life hell . Um

49:57

, but running is something I don't

49:59

have to do , but I just love doing it , so it's

50:01

weird ?

50:02

yeah , is it too reflective ? Um

50:04

too too much like counseling , making

50:06

music or or too hard a process

50:08

?

50:09

it's very reflective , it's very kind

50:11

of . It's like the only time

50:13

I get imposter syndrome , like , and

50:16

I get really bad with music because

50:18

I know I'm not the best guitarist

50:20

, I know I can't sing for shit , but

50:23

I just have these songs inside me that I have to

50:25

get out and I'm just constantly

50:27

aware that . You know like I worked with

50:29

some really good people on this album . I

50:31

had a guy called Phil Thorn Alione who played

50:33

bass for the Cuea and he wrote Tone

50:35

by Nat Lee and Brulia . He's on this

50:37

album so it's like sending people like him

50:39

your music . It's fucking

50:42

tough , it's really tough . You know , I'd

50:44

rather stand on the start line of

50:46

a really competitive race in really

50:49

shit trainers than send someone like

50:51

Phil Thorn Alione a song and ask him to play on

50:53

it . It's I'd get so much imposter

50:55

syndrome I really start . That's when I

50:57

really start doubting , like what am I doing ? Why am I doing

51:00

this ? I just feel compelled

51:02

to make it . I just feel I have to make it

51:04

. So I don't think , yeah

51:06

, music would never make me happy , but

51:08

what's I ?

51:09

because I that's . I guess

51:11

I'm quite lucky in that I rarely do feel any

51:14

imposter syndrome at all . If anything , I probably

51:16

should feel it more . Um , but

51:19

yeah , but

51:25

um , why ? Why

51:27

do you have to be as good a guitarist to make

51:29

music ? Why can't you know

51:31

? Why ? Why do you feel that , unless

51:33

you are accepted

51:35

as the best singer , the best guitarist , the best

51:38

writer , that you don't , you

51:40

can't make stuff ?

51:41

I don't know . I think it's just because that's

51:44

not why I grew up . I think

51:46

I just grew up running . So I'm always gonna feel

51:48

comfortable running because it's like

51:50

a skill to develop as a child . And

51:52

I just think , with With music

51:54

, you know , like you get people now who want to

51:56

start running and they they fall at the first hurdle

51:58

. They don't know what trainers to buy . It can be a massive

52:01

thing to put people off . So I just feel

52:03

like that with music , you know , I've got rubbish

52:05

guitars , I've got rubbish amps , I

52:08

know that and I just really

52:10

feel like when I walk into a studio with people with

52:12

all my my crappy instruments , I

52:14

feel stupid . But I

52:16

won't care what I'm wearing if I turn up to a race or

52:19

the track I never get , because I guess

52:21

I just felt like I've always done this

52:23

but music was something that

52:25

I kind of had to , like a world

52:27

I had to force my way into in a way

52:29

. So I'm always aware that I Don't

52:32

know . I just feel like this is like a club I shouldn't

52:34

really be in and I'm kind of lucky to be here and

52:36

I don't want to make a tit to myself when I'm here .

52:39

And and when you run now you

52:41

said it gives you happiness . Yeah

52:44

, is it the same as when you ran when you

52:46

were younger , or is it very

52:48

different in in how it feels to do it and

52:50

also what it represents to you ?

52:52

It's even more like it makes me even happier

52:54

now because it makes me feel younger

52:56

. So when you're young and running

52:58

, you don't know what it is to be old , wanting to be

53:00

younger . But when you're older , running you just

53:03

you feel that youthfulness and that

53:05

makes you feel really happy . You know , and the

53:07

times I'm running don't matter , I get

53:09

the same buzz out of running like a four

53:12

minute kilometer as I would Back

53:14

in a day running like a four minute mile . It doesn't

53:16

matter how fast I'm going . The fact . The main thing

53:18

is that I'm moving and that movement

53:20

just connects me to this . There's younger

53:22

, happier version of myself . So I love

53:25

running now much more than I did

53:27

when I was younger .

53:29

And do you ? Even though the times don't

53:31

matter , do you try and train

53:33

to be faster ?

53:35

Um , only if there's a . If there's a race

53:37

coming up , I'll put a bit of an effort in no

53:39

more than five weeks . Can't deal with

53:41

more than five weeks of serious training . That's like my limit

53:44

. So yeah , if

53:46

there's a race coming up , I'm like I'll just give it a go , this

53:48

give it a go . So I did that a few

53:50

times last year and I had fun doing it .

53:54

Yeah , and actually five weeks is quite

53:56

a nice amount , isn't it ? Where it's ? It's

53:58

not overwhelming , but actually he can get quite a good

54:00

return from it .

54:01

Yeah , I think if you're constantly ticking over , you know

54:03

Like my thing is just just to keep on going

54:05

. I just tick over a lot . A lot of my

54:07

runs are super slow , super

54:09

relaxed . You know I'll do 10k

54:12

in like 70 minutes and stuff like that . So

54:15

I'm always kind of at that limit where it's like I'm

54:17

fitting , have to go running . I could , I could run 15

54:20

miles and I'd be okay . But then , yeah , five

54:22

weeks out from something , I'll put a few speed sessions

54:24

and then and see where I can do , but generally

54:27

my body just doesn't like it . My body

54:29

just starts falling apart after more than five weeks it really

54:31

does .

54:33

And so when did running pumps emerge

54:35

?

54:36

Running punks emerged . So that

54:39

thing I talked about with the Photo

54:42

on seeing the race on my birthday that was

54:44

October the third df , 2018

54:47

. I started running

54:49

again on New Year's Day . I know I said there

54:51

was like an overnight thing , but I really liked

54:53

the fat , miserable Jimmy so

54:55

I wanted to give him one more Christmas . So

54:58

I drank a lot

55:00

of whiskey through that winter . No

55:02

winder on this . On January the first , I would make

55:04

a start and I'm like I'm it's

55:07

quite funny doing this podcast today because I'm very

55:09

I still attach a lot of Importance

55:12

to January the first . I don't know why and I

55:15

was like , if I can do on January first , I'm gonna stick to it . So

55:17

I've set myself a lot on New Year's resolutions again

55:19

this year and I just started jogging

55:21

so that was 2019 . I

55:24

was putting things online , you know , and

55:27

I just felt like I was just talking

55:29

about the running knowledge I had from back

55:32

in the day . So I would , I would do a run and

55:34

I would just do a little video , and I just talked about like a little session

55:36

I did , you know . I'd say something like oh , you

55:38

know , back in the day I would do 10 400

55:41

. So I've just done 10 times a minute

55:43

with with a walking recovery , and

55:45

I just noticed that people were asking

55:48

more and more information about the sessions . You

55:50

know , which is mad , because I

55:52

put something online Over the past few years

55:54

about a new song coming out and nobody replied

55:57

. 99

56:01

pounds and you iTunes and no one replied

56:03

. But I'd say I've just been down North docking

56:05

to Leslie and run six , four hundreds off a two minute

56:07

recovery and this main box was full . What

56:10

do you mean ? What do you mean by reps ? Like what's the rep

56:12

, what's the recovery ? So I

56:14

just felt like I had all these people who wanted to know

56:16

about running and Rodry

56:19

is it was a friend from school as one of them . He got

56:21

in touch with me and we were kind

56:23

of in a band in school together and

56:26

he he was like oh look , I've just started running , can

56:28

you give me some sessions ? I want to run a half marathon

56:30

. So I just wrote him like a really basic training

56:32

plan and

56:35

then we were just chatting . He's like there's loads of people

56:37

out there in the music community who would

56:39

love to get into running , but I don't know where to start

56:41

. We should start like a little online

56:43

running thing for musicians , and that's what running

56:45

punks was . So running punks started

56:48

in November 2019 , so I've been running

56:50

for 11 months and then running punks went online

56:53

and it was , you know just like who ? Just

56:55

me and him . At the start it was gonna be me and him

56:57

like the big , big hairy

56:59

bikers . We were gonna just enter races

57:01

with running punks t-shirts on and just do

57:03

this little Instagram page where I

57:05

would talk about my sessions and stuff like that , and

57:08

it just it grew , particularly over lockdown .

57:10

We just grew and and

57:12

how did it grow and why did it grow it

57:14

?

57:14

grew . It grew

57:16

Because of the running

57:19

reviews . You know I'd I

57:21

Lockdown happened . I

57:23

was struggling with running during

57:25

lockdown because it's quite it's easy

57:28

to forget , but runners were seen as real villains

57:30

. You

57:33

know , it was hard . This runner just Rethed

57:35

on me . Yeah

57:37

we were out , we were outlaws , you know , I mean we had to run

57:40

. We had to run in no man's land .

57:41

We're not allowed on the pavement , yeah .

57:43

Yeah , and I was like this is mad , because

57:46

I'd realized by then the running had really Helped

57:48

me turn my life around . I was like

57:50

, oh my god , I can't again . There's like a freedom

57:52

thing . I was like I'm having my running taken away from me again

57:54

and I remember

57:57

just thinking I need to do something where

57:59

I just gonna go out running . It's gonna take my mind off

58:01

everything . And then I started

58:03

by Doing

58:06

this thing online where I said I'm gonna run to an album I've

58:08

never heard before and I'm gonna see how far

58:10

I can run while listening to it . So I did like London

58:12

calling by the clash , and I

58:15

ran some of like 10 miles during

58:17

the thing and I put the vid , I put like a the

58:19

Strava up and I say that I just ran 10

58:22

miles this into London calling what , what album should

58:24

I run to tomorrow ? And someone said

58:26

you should run to the Spice Girls album , the first spice

58:28

girls album . And then I Was

58:31

walking back from the supermarket and I just thought I'm gonna

58:33

film myself doing it . I'm gonna run and

58:36

just film myself listen to spice girls . And I just did

58:38

that , put it online . It went

58:40

like mad . People loved it and I just kept

58:42

doing that , kept doing that . And then Lauren

58:45

Laverne from six music , like shade one

58:47

, on Twitter I did a dead Kennedy's one . She shared

58:49

it . Then she asked me to go on six music

58:51

and do like a little talk

58:53

while running the music on six music and then it just it

58:56

just blew up . That's when it blew up . As soon as those videos

58:58

went online . It's like people just

59:00

saw running in a way They'd never seen it before , I think

59:02

. Hmm , and it came at a time where gyms

59:05

were closed .

59:05

So people , it was ideal timing

59:07

, really , and is that

59:09

because , would

59:12

you say , the ones that do well ? Is

59:14

it because of the album you've

59:16

chosen ? Or is it because of your response

59:19

to the music you've listened to ?

59:22

I think it's it's . You know , it's quite funny because

59:24

I I Kind of trying

59:26

, I tried to think , oh , they're all about the same level

59:28

. I take the same time writing

59:31

them , like I write them in advance and stuff , and

59:33

it's just a case of going out and running Remembering what I've

59:36

written . But when

59:38

a band shares it , that's when it goes mad

59:40

. You know , like when a big band like like Tom

59:42

Jones , I did one for Tom Jones and then

59:44

he , he messaged me and he's like can I put this

59:46

on my Instagram page , you know ? And he's got like

59:48

a couple of million followers or ever . And then , hmm

59:50

, all of a sudden on his Instagram pages , me

59:52

running around the reservoir shouting about his

59:54

album . That's

59:57

when it is really well . I

59:59

did a darkness one this year and then

1:00:01

just I saw Justin Shared it

1:00:03

yeah . Yeah , so he did a video of him reacting

1:00:06

to me , reacting to his album . So those are when it goes

1:00:08

mad , you know , like when when the bands themselves

1:00:10

shared it . That's when

1:00:12

it just gets so many people into running .

1:00:15

Yeah , so do you have . Does that actually

1:00:18

happen ? Then people will think I

1:00:20

love music . I'm gonna go and try this

1:00:23

album out on a run .

1:00:24

Yeah , oh , my god , like I have so many

1:00:26

messages from people saying I've always

1:00:28

wanted a run but I've never

1:00:30

met another runner with something in common with me

1:00:32

, you know , and it's like , it's almost like a Venn diagram

1:00:35

. You have like weird math , rock

1:00:37

, metal , and Then Joe

1:00:39

Wicks , and then they just crossed and then in

1:00:41

the middle is running punks , and then

1:00:44

people like it's just , it's just a way for

1:00:46

people to reach out to you . A lot of people

1:00:48

are put off , you know , particularly people who

1:00:50

were kind of Maybe

1:00:52

like I don't want to generalise , but people into

1:00:54

metal or goth , they wouldn't go to the gym

1:00:56

generally , you know

1:00:58

, and then they'll just see this guy Running

1:01:01

around having the time was life , listening to their favorite

1:01:03

metal album , and it's , that's

1:01:05

just the invitation . They need to send

1:01:07

you a message , you know , and they just send you

1:01:09

a message and then all you got to do is

1:01:11

Tell them that you believe in

1:01:13

them and they can do it and they'll

1:01:15

go out and give her a go and I think , like

1:01:18

we know , most people have go out and give running a go or

1:01:20

fall in love with it .

1:01:22

So what ? What does , what does running

1:01:24

punks look like now ? Then ? Because this is something

1:01:26

we we spoke about after

1:01:28

the interview and and

1:01:31

We've Jadie and I have we've

1:01:34

had various guests but also discussed

1:01:36

how

1:01:39

running crews evolve , or how

1:01:42

personas Take

1:01:44

on a life that it maybe wasn't at

1:01:47

the beginning . And so what

1:01:50

is what ? What is running punks now

1:01:53

? Because now that we haven't got locked down and

1:01:55

it's just a nice brand name as

1:01:57

well , even if you don't understand

1:01:59

the ethos and and what

1:02:03

. What is the , the community behind it like

1:02:05

?

1:02:06

like it's become a little bit like LinkedIn

1:02:08

. I guess it's also with a dating

1:02:10

app .

1:02:13

I joke .

1:02:15

I'm a Dave Gorgans . You

1:02:21

won't believe the number . Like there's a running punk

1:02:23

who's who helps people set

1:02:25

a business it and she's always helping other running Punks

1:02:27

set up businesses . So it's good for her

1:02:29

portfolio . She actually helped , like

1:02:32

the guy who was meant to be our accountant

1:02:34

. I'm a business partner set up a running

1:02:36

inspired coffee together without without

1:02:38

discussing it with me , so that's like

1:02:40

as LinkedIn as it gets . So his is

1:02:43

very much like that , you

1:02:45

know , like there's , there's a weird

1:02:48

hierarchy in there where

1:02:50

people will Guess see that they

1:02:52

really important punks because they post the most

1:02:54

and it's just .

1:02:56

It's not for me Any more really

1:02:58

and is this is a surrender Facebook

1:03:00

group , then , or is this around a hashtag , or

1:03:02

?

1:03:03

is Facebook , instagram and Twitter . Twitter

1:03:05

is alright . I find Twitter quite . I can

1:03:07

. I can handle it on Twitter

1:03:09

. But Instagram , the community gets

1:03:12

a bit much for me really , is . There's only so much

1:03:14

tree hugging I can watch . There's

1:03:17

only so many selfies by trig points I

1:03:19

can handle , because those are none of the

1:03:21

reasons I started running . But

1:03:23

that that's not me , can . That's

1:03:26

not me damning the community , because the community

1:03:28

Keeps me accountable . Which

1:03:30

is really important for me is

1:03:33

that it really does , helps

1:03:36

me stay sober , helps me stay

1:03:38

positive , but that doesn't mean

1:03:40

I have to be part of the community anymore . You know , it's

1:03:42

like I feel really Proud

1:03:45

of it and it gives me purpose

1:03:47

, but I'm not necessarily part

1:03:49

of it . It's fine , but

1:03:51

, like I , I I'd never

1:03:53

heard of a running community . Rodry was

1:03:56

the one who'd heard of a running community . All

1:03:59

I wanted to do was help people fall

1:04:01

in love with running and show running in a

1:04:03

way I felt was different . So

1:04:05

I mean , if , if that's how I feel

1:04:07

about running , that I want it to be unique and

1:04:10

I want to show in a different way , then I'm never

1:04:12

really gonna fit into a community of runners

1:04:14

.

1:04:14

It's never gonna be . Have you

1:04:16

not thought about group listens

1:04:20

, where Everyone goes out

1:04:22

behind a huge megaphone ? A

1:04:24

huge speaker and you all

1:04:26

. There's like 20 of you behind the one

1:04:28

sound system , listening to the

1:04:31

outside of the moon or whatever it may be

1:04:33

.

1:04:34

I'd rather people just came to my gigs and listen to my own

1:04:36

music . I've

1:04:41

never . I think we have kind of tried

1:04:43

that , we have tried that but

1:04:45

like , my thing is I don't want

1:04:47

to be like a Public nuisance , you

1:04:49

know I don't want . There's a few

1:04:51

running clubs I've . There's one I've run with at

1:04:53

Love Trails and I was like , oh

1:04:56

this , I'm not enjoying running with these

1:04:58

people . This is a bit full-on for me and

1:05:00

I never want running pumps to be like that , because I

1:05:02

know it is kind of like the

1:05:04

shy people , the people who want you to go

1:05:06

Running , so it's never gonna really appeal

1:05:08

to people . In neon

1:05:11

colors , kind of fist-pumping to the

1:05:13

fame soundtrack around the city center

1:05:15

, yeah

1:05:17

, I mean , I think I

1:05:19

love it . Like Someone asked

1:05:21

me the day do I wish I'd kept

1:05:24

on running ? But I

1:05:26

I feel alright to borrow because if

1:05:28

I'd stayed as an athlete , my goal would

1:05:30

have always been to inspire others to run . So

1:05:33

I feel like I'm doing the same thing now . We just inspire

1:05:35

the others to run . So the best way

1:05:37

for me to do that is to just do in my own idiosyncratic

1:05:40

way , which is running alone with the GoPro

1:05:42

.

1:05:44

And and and something else that you'd

1:05:46

mentioned , where we

1:05:48

talked about Colin McCourt and how

1:05:50

I Guess

1:05:53

you're both similar in a way that you've you've

1:05:55

been out of the spotlight , you've re-emerged

1:05:57

in a different guys and suddenly are

1:06:00

, you know , interesting people

1:06:02

to hear about , to share the stories , and

1:06:05

Do you do

1:06:07

say , do say stop if , if

1:06:09

you don't think , colin , we can't come from seeing this saying this

1:06:11

, but you'd mentioned that you know

1:06:13

Colin almost felt as if He'd

1:06:16

returned but then actually he'd

1:06:18

almost just been used up for his story and

1:06:20

then , yeah , put back aside

1:06:22

. And actually there is this

1:06:25

almost Infrastructure out there

1:06:27

, of which we may be guilty as being part

1:06:29

of , that is just looking to , to

1:06:33

you , to exploit other people's stories

1:06:35

and then , and then actually

1:06:37

, but not actually care about or not actually

1:06:40

engage with People , not actually help in some way

1:06:42

. I mean , I

1:06:45

hope I've represented that right , but would

1:06:47

you ever feel that yourself ?

1:06:49

Yeah , definitely , definitely . I think Maybe

1:06:53

like the , the biggest moment for that was

1:06:55

when on asked me to make an ad

1:06:57

for on running and I did this ad

1:06:59

for them up in the Highlands and

1:07:01

it's a really nice short film . They came out of it like

1:07:04

an eight or nine minute short film where

1:07:06

I was really honest , like

1:07:09

the regret I had from making the decision

1:07:11

to stop running . You know , and I talked a lot about

1:07:14

my drinking myself destructive

1:07:16

thing . There's even like a before and after photo

1:07:18

of me in the advert and you

1:07:21

know when I talk about like my mental health issues

1:07:23

and how running just was

1:07:26

really important to me to be happy again and

1:07:29

I was really honest and personal about that and

1:07:31

then at the end of the thing , had to give everything a bit of

1:07:33

Kidback , including my socks . I

1:07:35

like whoa , yeah

1:07:38

, it's hot , you know , and it's like , okay

1:07:40

, I'm not , I'm not doing this for the free kit

1:07:42

, but what

1:07:44

I did kind of what do they say ?

1:07:45

because what they can do with that kit .

1:07:47

So it was like I . They gave me Four

1:07:50

pairs of trainers , loads of kit like

1:07:52

they . We were staying in the Hilton

1:07:54

in Ballata and they rented out a room just for

1:07:56

the kit . So

1:07:59

I went in there and you know , I need

1:08:01

kit to run , everybody needs kit to run . So

1:08:03

I was like , oh , this is gonna be so cool

1:08:05

if I get to keep some of this , because this is gonna , yeah , make

1:08:08

running a lot easier , having a yeah yeah you

1:08:10

know . I mean , like that's the reason . Yeah , it is to make

1:08:12

running easier . So it's like when

1:08:14

he throws it , oh , I can see myself running in the winter

1:08:16

and he throws this is this is gonna be amazing . And

1:08:19

then on the last day of filming , after

1:08:21

being like so honest about everything , they were like , are we

1:08:23

gonna need the kit back ? I was like , yeah , no worries . So

1:08:26

I gave him the kit back and I kept like

1:08:28

the trainers that I'd run in and the shorts

1:08:30

and trousers and T shirt They'd run in for like five days

1:08:33

. And then I got . I got back to my

1:08:35

room and then my the phone in my room rung and they were like

1:08:37

, oh , can you bring your trainers back ? I was like , yeah

1:08:39

, no worries , I took a train is back . And Then

1:08:41

it's like we need this , we need trousers . So

1:08:43

by now all I had was the socks I'd run in . And

1:08:46

then I had a call you , can we get those socks

1:08:48

back ? And then it was

1:08:50

really weird , kind of like We'd

1:08:54

made this advert . Everybody left

1:08:56

. I was there for one more day because

1:08:58

, like , going back to Wales , and I just I just felt this thing where , oh

1:09:02

, it's gone , like do I mean everything I just done , all this honesty

1:09:07

on camera for this lady yourself bear , yeah

1:09:09

, they laid you bear , yeah , they literally

1:09:11

stripped you yeah .

1:09:14

Who gives a shit about kit like .

1:09:16

I know what I was like yeah , you know

1:09:19

, and then they , they left , then the advert came Out

1:09:22

, I got , obviously I got paid for it .

1:09:24

I mean , you get downstairs and the bill was waiting up

1:09:26

here .

1:09:28

Can you get out the room now please ? We've

1:09:34

noticed you've had some peanuts . Can you vomit

1:09:36

those up back into this ?

1:09:39

That was like a real thing for me , where I Couldn't

1:09:43

, I kind of come believe it . You know , I was like

1:09:45

cheek , hmm .

1:09:47

That's your cheek . I'm an empathy there as

1:09:49

well , isn't there ?

1:09:49

like , but also there's , there's

1:09:52

an element of you want . If

1:09:55

I'm on , I want Jimmy to be wearing

1:09:57

on , because exactly there's nothing

1:09:59

that what looks worse , worse than

1:10:02

if his the advert comes out and Jimmy's

1:10:04

air running around in an adidas or

1:10:06

whatever it might be .

1:10:08

Or naked because on .

1:10:11

Absolutely everything back in address

1:10:13

. It

1:10:15

was mad because there's there's a

1:10:17

film being made about my life at the moment

1:10:19

and when

1:10:22

, when the producer was making it , they still making

1:10:24

it . Now he was like , do you know anybody who would be

1:10:26

interested in sponsoring this ? I was like , well , I just made an ad with

1:10:29

on , so send them

1:10:31

the trailer , I'm sure they've been bored . And they were like , no , you

1:10:33

know , it's not . No , not really

1:10:35

even already interested in making that , and it's

1:10:37

what you know that that really makes

1:10:39

makes you feel like shit . Yeah

1:10:41

, it really is not a good feeling . So

1:10:44

, yeah , little things like that happen and then you realize

1:10:46

I am , I'm just here for

1:10:48

my story . Nobody , actually kids

1:10:51

, you know , nobody cares . And

1:10:53

remember , with this film that's being

1:10:55

made now , a few people kind of Watched

1:10:57

the trailer and they were expecting them to back

1:10:59

the film a little bit and they were like Feels like

1:11:01

a done thing , you know , it feels like he's , he's done his

1:11:04

journey , sort himself out , so we

1:11:06

can't see where the film is gonna go now . And

1:11:09

it's odd , you know , I remember speaking to

1:11:11

the producer , meeting producer and touch

1:11:13

a lot about it and it's kind of like

1:11:15

house things . Well , yeah , me , me

1:11:17

, my wife a split and I was like , oh , that's gonna be great on

1:11:19

the film . That's yeah

1:11:23

, no

1:11:26

. But he says in a joke away , and we both talked about

1:11:28

like , oh , thank you , brilliant , you know , if I get a

1:11:30

new girlfriend , we'll get her in the film like pure

1:11:32

drama . But I know he's joking

1:11:34

and I am joking as well , but that

1:11:36

is kind of still also true

1:11:38

. It doesn't mean it's not true , because it generally

1:11:40

does . You know , if maybe on

1:11:43

we're back in the talks and

1:11:45

and they'd be like , oh , so you know he's going through his separation

1:11:47

. Um

1:11:50

, oh yeah , interesting . Yeah , we'll talk about that . Yes , so

1:11:53

maybe he could wear like is is on

1:11:55

shoes when he goes to pick up his kids , when he gets to see

1:11:57

him like twice a week .

1:11:58

Yeah , could

1:12:00

go to them get cancer with that would . Would that help

1:12:02

? I mean , who knows who

1:12:04

?

1:12:04

knows , I have thought that

1:12:07

, like Imagine I just get

1:12:09

some random medical done and there's something wrong with me

1:12:11

then . And we'd have all these sponsors oh , jimmy's

1:12:13

only got five months after they've over in . Let's make this

1:12:15

film . Let's make this film .

1:12:17

They did . They did that . We did that 10 years ago when

1:12:19

I was on men's running people making up all kinds

1:12:21

of Diagnoses that they go and things they

1:12:23

go . Oh yeah , they've made up like they got cancer

1:12:26

and that they were running marathons , but oh that that's

1:12:28

happened loads . Oh yeah

1:12:30

, yeah , see that's wild

1:12:32

. That's all done . But what they should , what they should have

1:12:34

done , is they should have On , should

1:12:36

have you . What you probably didn't realise is that they

1:12:38

had some secret cameras in the room when

1:12:41

they were stripping you of all of the stuff

1:12:44

and following you . See , it was always like an

1:12:46

experiment to see how you coat With

1:12:48

, yeah , they take off your back . It was

1:12:50

just like and now we're going to , now we're

1:12:52

gonna take your shoes from him , go on , go

1:12:54

on . You

1:12:56

need to give your shoes back .

1:12:58

They're filming me now , just you know . Sadly , I'm now

1:13:00

behind the scenes .

1:13:01

It's , but it's the . It's the behind the scenes youtube

1:13:04

version yes , but

1:13:06

in a way that it's

1:13:09

it's .

1:13:09

It's not what they've done , it's the way they've done it right , because

1:13:12

actually , if you do want to be inspiring

1:13:14

people , then having an advert

1:13:16

with a brand like on is it's fantastic

1:13:19

for that and actually that's what they're trying to

1:13:21

do . It's more that they

1:13:23

should pay the price of Of

1:13:25

for your story yeah

1:13:28

other than yeah . So actually it's it's

1:13:30

just , I guess , common courtesy

1:13:32

how to treat people rather than there's

1:13:35

a good , there's a like , there is a good willow element to that

1:13:37

.

1:13:37

It's it because you're gonna come away from that and you've come

1:13:39

away from that whole experience Not going . Oh , I

1:13:41

was really pleased that I was able to tell my story and I was

1:13:43

vulnerable and it really felt like I was heard

1:13:45

. Your three is they took my fucking

1:13:48

socks off .

1:13:48

They took my socks .

1:13:49

I mean that's what you come away from

1:13:51

I .

1:13:54

Don't mind , I don't mind them taking the truth in the honesty

1:13:56

for me . But the socks , yeah

1:13:58

, but like .

1:13:59

So what are they gonna do with the socks ?

1:14:01

Boon them , maybe some ritual or something , maybe

1:14:03

, maybe maybe , maybe it's part of some kind

1:14:05

of auction .

1:14:06

Maybe the they the

1:14:08

film was so good , they were like you know , we've

1:14:10

decided to auction off the socks . These are the socks

1:14:12

used in the film , or they're holding on to them

1:14:14

. It's some kind of uh , yeah

1:14:17

, it's funny value .

1:14:19

Yeah , it's funny , it's just you know . Yeah

1:14:22

, I think calling is a way that that's . That's

1:14:24

the world we're in and this you know it's

1:14:26

the way it goes . It's the same in being in a band . You

1:14:29

know , like when you stop , stop being relevant

1:14:31

as an artist , when you've got nothing to say or

1:14:33

no one's excited about your story , then you use the

1:14:35

record label will probably drop you and things like that . So

1:14:37

it's just the way of the world . But it

1:14:39

doesn't mean , it hurts less .

1:14:42

Hmm , you know , and

1:14:46

one thing that I did you ever make

1:14:48

, did you ever speak to the people from

1:14:50

the gym again ? Did you ever make up with them ? Yes

1:14:53

, we're all good .

1:14:53

We're all good . Yeah , we're all good . Actually , a

1:14:55

guy , um , who was there

1:14:58

in the night out was a big inspiration

1:15:00

to go in sober , because I went back to

1:15:02

the gym Like

1:15:04

maybe like a month or so later and he walked up to

1:15:06

me and he , he shook my hand and in his hand

1:15:08

there's a bit of paper with his mobile number

1:15:10

on it and he said I'm , I've been sober

1:15:12

like 30 years and I've

1:15:15

been where you've been , so give me a call if you ever

1:15:17

want to check in your call . And then he walked

1:15:19

up and I walked off and I looked at the numbers and he had Lines

1:15:22

to the seven , you know , and

1:15:24

I was like that that screams Brexit . So I'm not falling

1:15:26

in him . I never

1:15:28

found him .

1:15:33

No , I never found him , but it was a thought

1:15:35

that counted .

1:15:38

I know I never found him , um , but

1:15:40

it's funny because I did like an Instagram

1:15:43

live During lockdown

1:15:45

and I talked about that story and there was like another person

1:15:47

on it From from Clethey and this

1:15:49

guy had done the same to him and it helped him go sober

1:15:52

. So he's how many people he's done that to

1:15:54

. And I said the guy did you ever phone him

1:15:56

? He's like no , never phoned him . So

1:15:58

none of us . I know two people who had

1:16:00

the phone number of this guy and we never

1:16:02

, I guess it .

1:16:03

It has the impact there , isn't it ?

1:16:05

It's definitely the willingness . Yeah

1:16:07

, maybe I'll phone him and he'll give me my on-kit

1:16:09

back . He's

1:16:12

like I've got you , I've got your on-kit .

1:16:14

It might not be a real number . Well

1:16:17

, um and and so , with

1:16:20

with running punks now almost

1:16:22

being no longer

1:16:24

where you see yourself running

1:16:26

wise like are you , do you think

1:16:29

you'll reinvent yourself again ? Um , are you

1:16:31

happy , just continue with the albums , or

1:16:33

do you think you're you're in another 10

1:16:35

years ? Have a different relationship with running ?

1:16:37

I think I need to play the corporate monsters at

1:16:39

their own game and do more running

1:16:41

reviews of like drinks and

1:16:45

stuff like that . You know , I think I need to take

1:16:47

it to them . No , Um , because I

1:16:49

did I did . One of the biggest videos

1:16:51

I did last year was a running review of huel . Um

1:16:55

, like the milkshake . Yeah , and I

1:16:57

did a stupid video because there

1:16:59

was no music . I like that come out that

1:17:01

week . I tend to like run to new stuff now and

1:17:03

I listen to everything . I'm not feeling any of this . So I

1:17:06

ran listening to huel and I had like

1:17:08

loads of gift vouchers

1:17:11

for the online shop and stuff like that . Maybe

1:17:15

I need to start doing more things like that , but I'm

1:17:17

gonna yeah , I'm still gonna do the running

1:17:19

and reviewing stuff . Um

1:17:22

, I'd like to race more

1:17:24

. I really would like to race more , um

1:17:26

, because I think that's a that's

1:17:28

, that's a good thing to add . You know , like I

1:17:31

am , I am a bit different , but I

1:17:33

can .

1:17:33

What's stopping ?

1:17:34

you Nothing , really

1:17:36

nothing . Maybe laziness I

1:17:38

2023 was a bad year for me

1:17:40

. I was definitely quite lazy . Um

1:17:42

, I feel much more motivated , although I haven't run

1:17:44

yet this year . Um , like loads

1:17:47

of people are running on January the first time done it yet . But

1:17:50

, yeah , racing more , racing more and

1:17:52

just reviewing more things and

1:17:54

just being myself . Yeah , Amazing

1:17:57

.

1:17:57

Well , thanks so much for coming back on

1:18:00

the podcast for a second time . Any other questions to

1:18:02

throw in , jerry ?

1:18:03

Yeah , no , I think so . No , this has been great .

1:18:06

Hopping from talking .

1:18:08

And um , if people want to follow you and

1:18:11

your socials , what were the best places

1:18:13

or one of the best handles ?

1:18:14

Yeah , so um running punks on everything , on

1:18:17

all the channels , channels one , two , three , four and five

1:18:19

. And then um for me

1:18:21

, on instagram I'm nutbusjimmylimits

1:18:23

, and on twitter , and biggie

1:18:25

timpkins .

1:18:27

And , uh , name of the most recent album

1:18:29

I know you've of mine . Yeah , yeah , so

1:18:31

um .

1:18:33

It's . It's not off as a solo project , it's become a

1:18:35

band . The band is called joce and

1:18:38

the album is called voice .

1:18:41

Perfect . We discussed that last time . I like the way it

1:18:43

rhymes .

1:18:44

I don't think people enough .

1:18:45

People do albums that rhyme with the band name , so

1:18:47

yeah , I think my my

1:18:50

jake at the time was noise , yeah

1:18:52

, no .

1:18:54

That'd be the follow-up album . I think every album will

1:18:56

rhyme with joce .

1:18:58

Amazing . Well , thank you so much for coming back on the

1:19:00

podcast and , uh , if

1:19:02

, if you're ever in london , let me know let's

1:19:05

go for a run . Have another alcoholic drink together

1:19:07

. And if you see you at some

1:19:09

community running community thing in the future

1:19:11

.

1:19:12

Thank you very much . Thanks for having me Cheers

1:19:14

jimmy . Cheers .

1:19:22

How was that jimmy ? Yeah , jadie , because , um , it was

1:19:25

probably quite weird almost Coming

1:19:27

halfway through , but then actually the story

1:19:29

Is a fresh , clean start

1:19:31

, as if you didn't necessarily need to know the first half

1:19:33

to .

1:19:33

No , no , absolutely no . I

1:19:36

just Music industry stuff really

1:19:38

interests me . This it's so . It's

1:19:41

so weird , isn't it Like so

1:19:43

brutal ? Yeah , brutal , I mean like

1:19:45

being . I mean that's really

1:19:47

hard Trying

1:19:51

to . I mean , if you're always striving

1:19:53

for freedom and you're doing

1:19:55

the thing that you

1:19:59

think's gonna bring you freedom , it's never actually

1:20:01

the thing , is it ? It's how you

1:20:03

work with the thing . Like it's

1:20:05

like running was never the issue

1:20:07

that you had . You loved running , but

1:20:09

when running turned into a job

1:20:12

and it kind of flips

1:20:14

over to the , you know there has

1:20:16

to be a structure here , you have to do it this way . That's

1:20:18

when you lose interest . And then the same thing happens with music

1:20:20

. You know you have this amazing music

1:20:22

thing , but then when it flips over into being a job and

1:20:24

you're controlled by people and you're kind of hemmed

1:20:26

in , then you kind of lose it and

1:20:28

like , yeah , it's never really the

1:20:31

context , is it ? It's what happens within

1:20:33

that context that causes you

1:20:35

to fall out of love with it or

1:20:37

to change your relationship with it .

1:20:39

Yeah , and that's what's , was

1:20:43

it ? What's the gentleman's name from Chumbo

1:20:45

Wumba who we interviewed ?

1:20:47

Oh yeah .

1:20:48

Bosch , bosch , someone's

1:20:50

my brain again , geez . But

1:20:53

yeah , it's similar to Chumbo Wumba and how

1:20:55

they would achieve

1:20:57

success , and they'd burn it down again

1:21:00

and again , and again .

1:21:01

Yeah , absolutely yeah . They defy it

1:21:03

Whatever . Whenever they came close to kind of

1:21:05

having like a breakthrough or something like

1:21:07

that , they'd be like all right time to torch it now

1:21:09

.

1:21:10

Yeah and Boff , that's right , boff

1:21:12

Whaley , really good interview . But

1:21:15

, yeah , similar to that where they

1:21:17

weren't constrained by success

1:21:20

or by having to follow the

1:21:23

rules , because they just never agreed

1:21:25

to , they never signed

1:21:27

those contracts , they never did what any

1:21:29

of the record labels wanted and

1:21:31

it did cost them long-term

1:21:34

success in some ways , but actually the

1:21:37

price of freedom , that was the price of freedom

1:21:39

.

1:21:39

Oh yeah , absolutely yeah , that was , it , wasn't

1:21:41

it . And you can kind of feel that when you talk

1:21:44

to Boff about

1:21:47

you know it's

1:21:49

continual love of

1:21:52

the freedom of doing that each time

1:21:54

.

1:21:57

Yeah , and the creativity allowed them to

1:21:59

have . So do balance , if you like

1:22:01

this episode that's a great one to list to Boff

1:22:03

Whaley we spoke to . We spoke to

1:22:05

Justin Hawkins , lead speaker of the Darkness . He's

1:22:07

a runner as well . Boff was a fell runner is

1:22:09

why he was on the podcast . And

1:22:12

first episode of Allie Bailey was really good

1:22:14

, talking about the music industry . And at

1:22:16

that stage when we spoke to her , she was still

1:22:19

, I think , still involved in the music industry

1:22:21

or trying to transition away from it and

1:22:25

transitioning into that love of ultra running

1:22:27

. I'm trying to think of any . Well , colin

1:22:29

McCourt we spoke about , who used

1:22:31

to be a very , very good

1:22:33

runner . He was seen as the most talented

1:22:36

runner of his generation , which is a generation that included

1:22:38

Mo Farah , but

1:22:41

he just wasn't that up for it , wasn't that

1:22:43

into it , would rather play games and

1:22:46

kind of eat pizzas . And so we interviewed

1:22:48

him about four years ago now

1:22:50

, maybe even five years ago , but

1:22:54

really good interview to understand

1:22:57

him going through that journey . And also he

1:22:59

was refinding and redefining

1:23:01

his relationship with running and

1:23:04

it kind of kicked off because he had a bet with

1:23:06

16 or 17 of

1:23:09

his former running

1:23:12

colleagues had a bet if he could get under sub 15

1:23:14

for 5K , he'd

1:23:16

win , I think , a grand

1:23:18

off each of them or something similar , or

1:23:21

else he'd have to get a tattoo of all their names

1:23:23

on him . So 15 tattoos Amazing

1:23:26

episode . Any others ? Jd ?

1:23:29

I think those are the main ones that I think of as

1:23:32

the two music ones and the Collin McCourt one .

1:23:35

Yeah , but do bad as

1:23:37

if you've got any suggestions of slightly

1:23:39

out there or alternative guests . The

1:23:42

main thing is we're excited about the story , ideally

1:23:45

about running , but actually sometimes

1:23:47

they're not . We just think it's a great story that

1:23:49

we think our listeners would appreciate

1:23:52

, and it's got that kind of bad boy

1:23:54

spirit around it . If there

1:23:56

is one in mind , message me David at Bad

1:23:58

Boy Running , or this little pink as

1:24:00

on Instagram .

1:24:03

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1:24:05

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1:24:07

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1:24:12

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credibility , which helps us get better guests . But

1:24:26

thanks , Mr Guys , and we'll see you next time .

1:24:28

See you later .

1:24:29

Bye-bye , bye-bye , bye-bye , bye-bye .

1:24:33

Baby , come back . But if I buy , buy , buy

1:24:35

, buy . But if I buy , buy , buy , buy . I

1:24:38

must admit I was a clown to

1:24:40

be messing around , but

1:24:42

that doesn't mean that you have to

1:24:44

leave town . Come back , yes

1:24:47

, and give me one more try

1:24:49

, because I love like this . Should

1:24:52

I never , ever die ? Come back

1:24:54

, Fuck you , buddy .