0:00

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,000 Welcome to the Bagel Logic Podcast! 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:10,000 The show where Papa Thom spreads wisdom like a smear of cream cheese on an everything 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,000 bagel. 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,000 Here's your host, Thom Jennings. 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Hello everyone and welcome back to Bagel Logic. 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,000 I'm not sure if this will be the last episode ever. 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,000 It may, it may not be. 8 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,000 Just some updates on a personal level. 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:36,000 I've got a couple of projects that I'm pretty excited about that involve music and 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:44,000 podcasting that showing some promise, something that I should be able to monetize and maybe earn a little bit of extra income, 11 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:50,000 which is good because those of us that are still paying student loans because they went back to school, 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:58,000 that's an adult, it'll help any little bit of help and as much as I certainly love doing podcasting, 13 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,000 it's tough. 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:10,000 It's tough when you have anything that you do that's considered a hobby and doesn't, you know, 15 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,000 generate an income when you need the money. 16 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:19,000 You know, I mean if you're independently wealthy, you can always have these vanity projects and there's no stress on it 17 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,000 because it's like, well, I just enjoy it. 18 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,000 And to a large degree, of course, this is a vanity project, but part of the, 19 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:34,000 part of the thought process behind it was to ultimately be able to come up with some podcasts that I could monetize. 20 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:40,000 And as much as there is a degree of satisfaction in being a teacher, 21 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:46,000 I've only taught special education for the last decade and a half and it's range, 22 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:51,000 it's been, I certainly don't get the satisfaction out of it that I once did. 23 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:58,000 I don't necessarily see an endgame for that, but if there was something that maybe on my final chapters of life, 24 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:04,000 you know, not to be morbid, but you know, I'm at least in the final third, if not the final eighth, 25 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:09,000 that would be nice to do something that was a little bit more enjoyable and, you know, whatever. 26 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:18,000 In fact, the other day, it's funny. So I'm 57 now and I went and applied for a position as a bartender and I don't just the look of the guy 27 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:23,000 because I applied in person, which is weird. It was a paper application. 28 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:31,000 And the guy looks at me and, you know, one of the questions on the job application was the year you graduated from high school, 29 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:36,000 which to me is kind of an unfair question because ultimately it's a fishing expedition. 30 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:43,000 It kind of see a whole chart. Most people, you can get it within a couple of years if you know what year they graduated high school. 31 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:53,000 So he asked me a couple of curse requests and I actually had a fairly close friend who was friends with somebody that owned the bar and didn't really, 32 00:02:53,000 --> 00:03:05,000 it didn't help, you know, it's, it never ceases to amaze me and this will probably go nicely into the topic today that how much it, 33 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:11,000 how much everything in life depends on who you know, not what you know. 34 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:21,000 There's all these connections and really at the core, people always say things like, "Oh, you know, race of does racism doesn't exist and all these things have changed." 35 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:31,000 And, and that is, if you really want to understand racism and the plight of African-Americans and other minority groups, 36 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:44,000 you really, it really comes down to these are groups that just didn't have access to either families or friends that were able to get them into jobs where they could, they could come out of poverty. 37 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:59,000 I mean, that's just the reality of it. And the ones, you know, some people are lucky, they have a talent, whether it be in, you know, broadcasting or music or athletics or business, you know, any of those types of things. 38 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:05,000 And you come out of poverty and that's not race specific and it happens to all of us. 39 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:17,000 But I do, it really, it's kind of crazy how generations really are very, they're kind of tight-knit. 40 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:26,000 It's, and they yield, they wield some power. And I don't have that. And at times it's very frustrating. 41 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:33,000 You know, in terms of, do I reuse any kind of influence I have? Well, sure, you know, I get free concerts, I take this all the time because I've written for the newspaper. 42 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:45,000 But even then, you know, I write for a smaller publication. So I don't have the type of access that say the guy that worked for the larger, larger newspaper have. 43 00:04:45,000 --> 00:05:03,000 But anyhow, with those two projects coming up professional, with the goal towards monetizing them, earning at least the second income, probably neither one of them enough to earn a, a, be the primary source of income. 44 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:12,000 You know, I'll still do these big, a logic podcast. And I'm hoping maybe today, the episode today, something comes out of it. 45 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:19,000 Not real hopeful. This is a podcast I haven't maintained as much as I should. I think there was a little bit of momentum at the, at the front end. 46 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:28,000 So I don't know if there's any real listenership or not. But if there was ever an episode that I hope gets shared, or I hope find somebody, this is the one. 47 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:37,000 Because it's, it's just kind of a weird situation that, that I, I don't even know how I ran across it. 48 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:50,000 It just, it was a, a Facebook, there was a Facebook group called Justice for Theresa Karlak. I believe that's how you pronounce her last name. It's K-A-R-L-A-K. 49 00:05:50,000 --> 00:06:02,000 And I, I started going through this thing. Now, I mentioned it in a right for a newspaper when I first started running for a newspaper, it was a newspaper called the Medina Journal Register. 50 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:11,820 And on occasion I would write some political exposés, things like that, and it caused a lot of trouble. 51 00:06:11,820 --> 00:06:29,000 And early on in my career with the Middynia Journal register, I was caught in this weird conundrum where I was getting pressure from certain forces to be this "gad fly" and disrupt all these problems. 52 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:38,000 And I had never really left. I mean there were still people that had it out for me and probably still are in Orleans County. 53 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:49,000 And at one point somebody reached out to me, he had a screen name "Mad Mark" and later learned that his name was Mark Taylor. 54 00:06:49,000 --> 00:07:01,000 The Middynia Journal register used to have this thing called the forum and people would post things on there and it was kind of an early version of Twitter for Orleans County. 55 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:10,000 I don't know. But "Mad Mark" was one of the frequent posters. There's another guy named Paul Louricela. He's still active in Orleans County politics. 56 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:18,000 I don't know where we're happening Mark Taylor. But Mark was one day reached out to me and he said, "Oh, I have all this information about a story." 57 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:24,000 And I was a little bit more like a "Murder" that happened in Orleans County that was covered up. 58 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:33,000 And this is the first time I'll actually say what the murder was that he claimed had happened. I've never investigated it. 59 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:40,000 So when I say this, this is all second-hand information. I don't want anyone to think that I'm saying this person was murdered. 60 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:54,000 I'm saying that Mark reached out to me and said, "Oh, this person was murdered." So I called my editor to the newspaper and granted this is still just a part-time vocation for me. And 20 years later it still is. 61 00:07:54,000 --> 00:08:01,000 And he says, "Oh, I got all this evidence and everything and I called my editor and I said, "Listen, this whole thing kind of freaks me out." 62 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:12,000 Like I'm not an investigative reporter. I'm just a guy with a, you know, whatever. I'm just writing a weekly column. It was not a bad column. 63 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:23,000 It was really meant to stimulate conversation. It wasn't meant to aggravate people and maybe in looking back at some of the articles I wrote, I could see where you would touch some nerves. 64 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:33,000 But that was kind of the goal of it. It was more intended to touch nerves in kind of a funny way, make people think about things or question things, you know, things like that. 65 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:42,000 But we've progressed as a society where it's difficult to question things anymore without somebody getting upset, regardless of your political affiliation. 66 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:58,000 So my editor, I said, "Do you think I should record this conversation?" At the time I was doing a project for SUNY Brockport and was doing all these archival interviews about a project, well, if you're not familiar, 1969 Kent State. 67 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:07,000 There was a shooting and a bunch of college campuses were taken over by students. And SUNY Brockport was one of those. 68 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:15,000 I interviewed a bunch of the people that participated in those Kent State protests and they actually occupied the office building and things like that. 69 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:22,000 And on the side note, you know, it's kind of sad that we don't see that kind of passion really anymore on college campuses. 70 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:32,000 You know, the January 6th thing, when you really get down to it, was pretty horrific in that it was an attempt to take over the government. 71 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:38,000 But, you know, these people at least were willing to protest for something that they believed in. Same with Black Lives Matter. 72 00:09:38,000 --> 00:10:01,000 I mean, I admire people that have the wool protests for things that they believe in. Not necessarily admiring people for protesting things that I don't believe in, but I admire the act of protest because I think that if wherever you're going to have any change in this country, you really do have to organize, you have to protest, you have to make your point. 73 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:13,000 But that, again, that's a double-edged sword. So, you know, we had protests against racism. We had protest against segregation in the South and a lot of people were killed in the process. 74 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:26,000 So, any account protests, people that were fighting against segregation. Do I support those people? No, but, you know, again, there's passion there and things like that. 75 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:48,000 But anyhow, the Kent State protests, for the most part, were fairly benign. There was a ton of violence involved in them. There were violent incidents, but there wasn't a ton of violence. There were fairly peaceful protests in the, in kind of the tradition of the Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi method of protest. 76 00:10:48,000 --> 00:11:01,000 And unfortunately, we're reaction to a very violent incident and a violent reaction towards a college protest. And then there was a subsequent protest as well in a predominantly African-American college. 77 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:09,000 Whatever, you know, I'm off on a beaten trail. But I had the, I was recording these archival interviews for SUNY Brockport. 78 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:20,000 And it's already had the recording equipment to record phone calls. So, it really wasn't like I had to say, well, if I'm going to talk to this guy, I got to get all the special equipment or anything like that. I already had it. 79 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:42,000 A previous episode you've heard, you know, I record phone calls all the time for, for whatever, I record personal conversations if there is something that I feel is going to be dealing with a legal situation, especially if you're going to do a podcast like this and name a name like Mark Taylor or whatever, you're going to have to cover yourself if there's any kind of lawsuit. 80 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:52,000 Yeah, Mark had sue me. There's nothing to, nothing to sue me for except debt and, you know, house of my wife's name. So they're not getting that either. 81 00:11:52,000 --> 00:12:11,000 Just don't take the record collection. So, so when he had this guy, Mark Taylor, he says he's like, you know, oh, yeah, this guy, Milford Finney is a former former DA in Orleans County that he said that the guy was murdered. He said, I had bags full of evidence and, you know, everything. 82 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:21,000 And again, this is all of my best direct recollections, but there's a recording of it. So I mean, it's not something some fantastic story that I'm making up that if somebody says I made it up. 83 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:40,000 In fact, Mark at one point, he and I became enemies because I refused to write the story because I said if I don't have the evidence, I'm not going to write about a guy being murdered because, you know, A, I kind of, I have to respect if he has any family members around that are. 84 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:50,000 That would be distressed by this and the, and the, the true story or the story that was reported this guy was a farmer and he died in a, a farming accident. 85 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:57,000 So if you can't show me anything that proves that something else happened, I'm not going to write about it. 86 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:05,000 And, and Mark, you know, he, Mark would come across things on occasion that were legit, like a lot of corruption in in Orleans County. 87 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:16,000 It, you know, a comfortable circle back to the, to the beginning of the podcast, it really does. It is a county where it's not what you know it's who you know. 88 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:32,000 It's, it really is. I mean, there is a, there is a, I hate to use the term old boys network because it sounds so gender specific, but to a certain degree, there's, there's not a better way to name it, but we'll call it that the old boys network. 89 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:39,000 So where does this come into play for this Teresa Carlock? Well, Teresa Carlock, 18 years old. 90 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,000 It's January 2022, New Year's Day. 91 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:49,000 These are the facts. She's walking down the road with her sister. Her sister is 13 years old. 92 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:57,000 And, um, it's a, they're walking down a road called Eagle Harbor Road, which is in Orleans County. 93 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:06,000 I mean, you look it up on Google Maps if you want. I'm familiar with the road. We actually had a, my doctor lived there and we used to deliver bagels to them all the time. 94 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:19,000 So I'm fairly familiar with where the, the accident happened. No sidewalks. Definitely not the best of roads to be walking down at night, but she's walking down the road at night. 95 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:39,000 And she gets hit, struck and killed. So, yeah, car operated by guy named, it's like Zachary Harding, right? 24 year old Zachary Harding. 96 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:49,000 But, uh, yeah, it's, so, so the mother, she creates this, the space book page about all this stuff that's going on. 97 00:14:49,000 --> 00:15:07,000 And from what the mother has reported on the Justice for Theresa Karlak page, she presents a case that's, that's, that's very compelling in terms of how the district attorney has been handling the case, how the, 98 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:25,000 the, um, even the department of motor vehicles is handling the case. And I, I don't know, I probably play a bit of an excerpt of it just so you can, you know, get a, get just a flavor of it and everything. 99 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:35,000 And I, I will say, I don't know both sides of the story. Um, I've started to kind of do this cursory look into it, but I'm not, I'm not really an investigative reporter. 100 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:54,000 Um, I'm still dealing with a degree of guilt that I, that I did begin the pursuit of this case involving Greg Fickis, who was a person whose brother I worked with that was murder in that case went unsolved and it's been, it just had its 30th anniversary. 101 00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:10,000 So that, this, this case kind of triggered a lot of those emotions where I looked at it and go, man, but you know, it also triggered a lot of emotions of just some of the nonsense that I dealt with when I was in Orleans County. 102 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:25,000 And at least when the Medina General Register, which was a small newspaper that served the served Orleans County, at least when that existed, there was some, we'll call it journalistic integrity. 103 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:32,000 Now, on a national level, people are constantly beating up on journalists right now and it's like, you know, fake news, fake news, fake news. 104 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:48,000 And really it, it's a tactic, it's a tactic by politicians, Democrats and Republicans to discredit the organization that is the watchdog or supposed to be that's the role of the media. 105 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:54,000 The media's role has always been to be the watchdog of politicians. 106 00:16:54,000 --> 00:17:06,000 Now, even though we live in an age where information is readily accessible to most people that want to seek and find it, there has been this, this, this steady drum beat to discredit journalists. 107 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:12,000 And I think it goes back as far as watergate, you know, watergate happens. 108 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:17,000 The media, they say, well, you know, the media took down the president of the United States. 109 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:28,000 I mean, the real, he's the president of the United States took himself down, Richard Nixon was involved in criminal activities. He recorded his discussions about the criminal activities. 110 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:34,000 I mean, there's no question about if the evidence was all there and it got to the point where he had to resign. 111 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:46,000 And even those in his own party weren't willing to support him because because because the media had enough influence and credibility that they could, 112 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:55,000 they could take the case and present it to the American public. The American public could look at it for what it was and then he was out. 113 00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:04,000 Now, fast forward, you get to presidents like Ronald Reagan who gets involved in arms for hostages. You know, he's able to survive it. 114 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:12,000 And then we've, we've slowly progressed to the point where there's just all kinds of stuff going on and nobody really knows what it is. 115 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:26,000 And it's very rare that we, that the media is in a position to expose anything. Now, on a local level, these little micro newspapers, I mean, they were the ones that could expose any potential stuff that was going on. 116 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:37,000 So for example, Orleanse County, now when I, I had run for office in Orleanse County in, you know, 2008 through 2012 ish or so. 117 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:49,000 And there's one of the archives where I talk about this too. And the guy that was the head of the Orleanse County legislature was guy named Dave Callard, David Callard, he ran for Congress. I mean, this guy was, this guy was the thing. 118 00:18:49,000 --> 00:19:04,000 And Callard, uh, winds up resigning office, just abruptly. Now, this, the story that I heard second hand, I guess the factual piece is is that there was somebody that went in and, and 119 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:24,000 vandalized his house while he was on vacation. The, uh, the kind of underground narrative is that there was some illicit sexual sexual relationship going on between Mr. Callard and somebody else. 120 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:39,000 Whether it was this guy's son or whether it was the kid himself that damaged house, I don't know, I've heard two, three, four different stories. And I don't spread this rumor to be salacious. I'm just saying that the rumor exists. Now, here's the issue. 121 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:50,000 You don't have a newspaper like the Medina Journal Register that would have had the gumption to try to investigate the story and get the true story. That's why we don't know the true story. 122 00:19:50,000 --> 00:20:05,000 Because no one from the media has investigated it. Because if you investigated a story involving the head of the Orlean County legislature, they will make life a living hell for you. They will. 123 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:24,000 Dave Caller ran, I didn't even run against my ran against this party when I worked for the Orlean County YMCA, uh, himself and the county executive at the time, both contacted a member of the board to have be terminated because they still had that old grudge from years ago. 124 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:53,000 And how much do newspapers hit the nerve of places? Well, in Albion, for example, when I had written a piece about the Albion schools, the super attended the Albion schools called the newspaper editor and said that they were canceling their newspaper subscription for newspapers in the classroom because she was upset that we had said something that upset her and then said that the newspaper couldn't report scores like sports scores in the newspaper. 125 00:20:53,000 --> 00:21:03,000 Okay, that's how and obviously you can't prevent a newspaper from reporting sports course is just public information. 126 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:13,000 But this is this is the thing you contend with in a small town. So at the time, the editor of the Mediner General Register, he was a guy from out of state, around the area. 127 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:21,000 Maybe I think he was from New York state and he's an editor for the New York Times now brilliant writer, but I mean this guy no fear. 128 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:31,000 And there was even a case where there was a situation with an Albion police officer who ran his car into a wall. There was there were suggestions that he may have been intoxicated. 129 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:40,000 There was a whole series of pieces written about that. You know, there was a Marin Albion got caught up in a bunch of scandals. The newspaper wrote about that. 130 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:56,000 So now the only source of news that really exists in Orleans County as the I don't know what you call it. The keeper of the flame, the lighthouse is something called the Orleans hub. 131 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:04,000 Now I know the guy that does most of the writing for the Orleans hub is his name is Tom. I won't say his last name. 132 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:21,000 He's looking up easily enough. I like Tom, but Tom, Tom is in a no win situation. He cannot take on the politicians on occasion. He does. He will write about situations which he feels somewhat passionate about, but I'm sure he gets a bit of flack for it. 133 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:30,000 But there's a line he doesn't cross like this case here, this Theresa Carlyle case. I believe that's a line. He hasn't crossed yet. 134 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:43,000 But I think it's a story that sadly is worth further investigation. And if a newspaper like the Madonna Journal register existed, the Theresa Carlyle case would have been investigated. 135 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:58,000 There would have been some bears poked. They would have looked to see if this was good old boys network at work. And maybe to some degree, we would have a mother whose child was hit by a car in the middle of the night. 136 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:11,000 She at least gets some answers. Now if you take this driver and you just chuck him into jail and ruin his life or whatever, I mean that doesn't necessarily solve anything. 137 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:19,000 But if you have somebody that gets involved in an accident where there's some suspicious circumstances. 138 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:40,000 And from what I've seen, there's evidence that exists. And I'll say that again, from what I've seen based on things that the mother is posted on on Facebook and everything that there is evidence that that there was or there's at least I would say a reasonable amount of suspicion in terms of whether there was drug or alcohol use involved in this particular accident. 139 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:59,000 If nothing else, it's got to be a degree of negligence. I mean, you can't you can't necessarily write off hitting a kid an 18 year old young lady like you would a, a deer. 140 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,000 You know what I mean? 141 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:15,000 So, but but again, you know, if if that is the case, if it's a case where the mother is is over reacting, she just she still deserves to be heard. 142 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:23,000 And you know, going back to the Dave Caldard situation, I mean situations that I've dealt with in Orleys County, I don't necessarily find it impossible to believe. 143 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:33,000 But there again, there's a fine line because yeah, the the Mark Taylor story about the district attorney being murdered. 144 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:49,000 I I never found any credible evidence to that. I think it was, you know, it was one of those things that maybe they say if you really want to get a good story, you come up with something that someone believable people will believe it. 145 00:24:49,000 --> 00:25:05,000 I don't necessarily follow that category. I'm a naturally suspicious individual. I've had plenty of situations in my life where I have been 100% wrong. Absolutely incorrect. 146 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:21,000 So, I may just be another person looking at this particular situation through my lens with my operational bias saying, oh, Theresa Carloch is involved in a situation where there's not really cover up. 147 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:27,000 This is just a terrible accident. And the mother is over reacting. 148 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:47,000 But man, I mean, it just blows my mind how little attention this thing has received. Now, one of the posts that she put on Facebook, just as an example, talked about how the district, first of all, there was a, there was a DMV hearing. 149 00:25:47,000 --> 00:26:03,000 And this is again, from the second and information from the mother, there was a hearing at the DMV and a bunch of evidence was not presented there. And they did, they decided not to take this, this, the young person who hit the girl and killed her with his car. 150 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:23,000 So I had to take that person's license away. And because of the DMV hearing, the somehow the district attorney decided that they didn't have enough evidence to pursue the case. And then, then there's other reports of the district attorney had filed the paperwork for the case and in the wrong jurisdiction. 151 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:39,000 So again, these accusations are out there. This information is out there. And, and unfortunately, now the silence of a publication like the only tub makes me that much more suspicious. 152 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:55,000 It really does. Because to some degree, if you really want to quell the story, the best thing would be to present all the facts in such a way that it would be for the, for the common person to go, oh, yeah, this was just terrible accident. It's just just a horrible situation. 153 00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:11,000 But since since it was just nothing, you know, and this was the same situation with cowards. So when, when Dave Coward resigns from your only county legislature, it's like, you know, quiet. 154 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:23,000 Everything's, everything's real quiet. And there was some, some like, I think there was a court case involving the vandalism to the house and that was reported in a very matter of fact way. But none of the other stuff was. 155 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:35,000 And again, I just hit to me that, that just made things look that much more suspicious. 156 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:52,000 And I know how the machine works in Orlees County and, and I tell you, it is, there is a, the fact that I live in Genesee County in some ways, which is a county south of Orleens for those of you who don't live in the region that may be listening to this. 157 00:27:52,000 --> 00:28:02,000 Is refreshing because I just don't have to deal with that bullshit anymore. And it was so stressful and cost my family and everything. 158 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:16,000 All kinds of financial and emotional hardship for many years. And, you know, I have these two sons that grew up in the area that they don't even visit really anymore because, because of everything that happened. 159 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:26,000 It's like they drove them out. But, and that's not to say that Orleens County doesn't, nestes, doesn't have redeeming qualities. Of course it does. 160 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:39,000 At the end of, but at the end of the day, a community is really made up of its citizens and its people. And, um, they're the ones who should be in control of the situation. 161 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:50,000 But, in Orleens County, on, on, on a political level, it's, these people run on a post all the time. They have absolute power, they've absolutely control. 162 00:28:50,000 --> 00:29:05,000 And, I don't know if the citizens seem helpless or feel helpless. But, my suspicion is is that there is a high enough percentage of those that are benefiting from this arrangement that, that you won't see any real change. 163 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:17,000 You know, I mean, think about segregation if we go back to those days or even back further slavery. Until you get 51% of the population that wants to get rid of it. 164 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:27,000 They ain't going anywhere. At some point, there had to be a degree of people that were benefiting from and supporting segregationist policies. 165 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:36,000 I mean, segregation is an easy one. Even, even in Rochester, New York, where I grew up in the 1960s, I didn't grow up in the 60s, I was born in '66. 166 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:43,000 But, there were protests because the major employer, Kodak, he really didn't hire African-American workers. 167 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:56,000 So, if I'm a white guy, and I'm planning for a job of Kodak in the 1960s, my dad gets me in, you know, the, the, the, I think about this college admission scandal and all that now, with the, the, the neptism and, and whatnot. 168 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:07,000 I don't, I don't want the system to change. What? Do I have to be the guy that gives up my job, the white guy that gives up my job because the, you guys didn't hire enough black people? 169 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:22,000 Yeah? That's the mentality. Like, do I get it? Yeah, I kind of get it. You know, I, I trust me. I, I didn't complain about age discrimination when I was 20 years old. But now that I'm 57, I deal with it all the time. 170 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:28,000 I deal with it all the time. I just dealt with it when I was, I was, I was trying to get a job as a bartender. 171 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:33,000 Uh, and the only reason I got my last job as a bartender was because of who I knew at the time. 172 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:41,000 It really didn't even necessarily have to do with, I mean, yeah, sure, I had the skills and all that others, but it just happened. I just have no, the guy that owned the bar. 173 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,000 And he needed somebody. So, it was convenient. 174 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:51,000 It wasn't, I mean, I didn't go, I didn't come in off the street and apply for a job because I probably wouldn't have gotten it. 175 00:30:51,000 --> 00:31:03,000 But, uh, yeah, so this, this, this, this Theresa Carlock case, I, you know, I'm, I'm not going to play any of the, uh, any of the stuff on Facebook. It's out there. 176 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:13,000 I would encourage you if you've listened to this podcast to, to go and look for the Facebook page, to join it, go through the evidence. 177 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:36,000 And I, I, I don't know, you know, I, like recently they just have this thing, this, this podcast about the Murdoch's, you know, this, this really wealthy family and I believe South Carolina, where, well, the guy didn't, I mean, the guy had been involved in a lot of suspicious stuff before he was finally convicted of murdering his wife and his son. 178 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:51,000 Uh, but there was a case there where the kid, if you're not familiar with it, there was a kid, he was, he was, he was, he was on a boat clearly intoxicated and gotten to an accent, killed somebody. 179 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:58,000 And he didn't, he didn't do any time in jail and it's, it's, it's just crazy. 180 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:11,000 And you look back on that and you go, wow, that's just horrible. I mean, that stuff goes on all the time. And the only way you're ever going to stop it, the only way people are going to get justice is if somebody, somebody brings a light to it. 181 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:22,000 And I don't know what it's going to take for this mother, but I tell you, if you live in Orleans County and you know anybody or anything, you should be talking about this case. 182 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:34,000 You should be talking about it with anybody and everybody that will listen because it, even on Trees Carolex, not my kid and they may, they're probably not your kid unless her mother is listening to me. 183 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:39,000 And if the mother does listen, my God, I feel horrible for what you're going through. 184 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:44,000 I can't even imagine the pain. 185 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:57,000 I can't even imagine having to deal with this, this old boys network, this, this hush thing and, and having lost a child in the process. 186 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,000 And it seems like none of these guys have any shame. 187 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:06,000 It's horrible. You deserve better. 188 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:19,000 I mean, I don't know, what, what, the county government's role in this situation should be to offer whatever support they can give this mother, anything that they can. 189 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:27,000 And if there's a civil suit involved, I mean, I would imagine that there would be potentially, there's going to be money involved. 190 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:35,000 I mean, you know, the facts of the facts, kid driving a car, hit somebody kills him, whatever, it happens. 191 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:41,000 You killed somebody. There's, there's liability involved. 192 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:52,000 At least I hope. But anyhow, yeah, as I said, I don't know, man, it's that these situations frustrate me. 193 00:33:52,000 --> 00:34:03,000 And it's a shame that it has to get to, you know, I mean, you know, to me, this is a case that should be on like Dateline NBC or maybe somebody who does a professional podcast or something like that. 194 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:13,000 And, you know, I wish I had the resources to really do it if we were going to do an investigative podcast on this thing. 195 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:23,000 I wish I had the resources to do it right. But you know, the problem there too would be, if I start poking the bear, I don't know what's going to happen to this poor woman's family. 196 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,000 I really don't. 197 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:35,000 And I almost find it hard to believe that there be anyone in Orleans County that would even be willing to cooperate with me if I was to try to do interviews or anything like that. 198 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,000 And I would need somebody that's in Orleans County to make it happen. 199 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:46,000 So I don't know. And again, I just went through this with Greg Ficus, where police basically said, 200 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:55,000 Oh, you know, you bring light to this. You get all these loony tunes to come out of the woodwork with all these crazy stories. And, you know, we just don't need that for the parents. 201 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,000 I'll put too much stress on the parents, they're like that. 202 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:05,000 Um, I don't know, man. 203 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:11,000 Like if any of you have ever had a kid that was ever 18 years old, imagine. 204 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:17,000 I had a sibling and was at age 18. And just imagine them being gone in a situation like this. 205 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,000 And then not getting any kind of satisfaction. 206 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:31,000 Yeah, no. So, uh, I don't know. There's the old expression, oh, I'm not going to lose sleep. I've lost sleep over this one. 207 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,000 This is, this is a difficult case. I feel, I feel helpless. 208 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:42,000 And I, I don't know if I remet this girl or not, they said, or she worked at Tim Horton. She may have waited on me at Tim Horton's. 209 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:50,000 I don't know her personally. Do I know her mom? No. Let me tell you when I listen to her voice on, 210 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:58,000 on the videos that she posted on that Facebook page, I feel her pain. I feel it. 211 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:08,000 This isn't a woman who is just some kind of hysterical loony tunes. This is a woman who's in deep emotional distress. 212 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:16,000 And nobody seems to be willing to help her get through it. 213 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,000 And that's not a great place to be. Not at all. 214 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:26,000 I've been there too. You know, where, where I've been at a low point and it just feels like the entire world has left you. 215 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:32,000 Even though in situations, sometimes they haven't, you know, sometimes you're, sometimes you have the support system, 216 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:38,000 but it's really hard to reach out to it. But there's, there is that moment where you have that, where you're on that island. 217 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,000 And you just feel nothing. 218 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,000 So I don't know. 219 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:50,000 That's my rant for today. 220 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:56,000 A little jumbled. 221 00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:02,000 But hey, that's what it's about. And again, I don't know when I'll record another one of these episodes. 222 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:08,000 I've had the best of intentions. We've had a lot going on in terms of family and mostly good. 223 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,000 So, you know, it's not one of those like, oh, I haven't been able to record because, you know, blah, blah. 224 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:22,000 I deal with my occasional bounce of depression and, you know, right now I'm at a fairly level level point, which is good. 225 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:27,000 But man, I said situations like this just, I don't know. 226 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:33,000 And I struggle with whether I was ever going to record a podcast about this because the double edged sword is this. 227 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:38,000 If nobody listens to it, then it's basically just been a venting session for me. 228 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:49,000 And nothing's come out of it. And that almost, that's almost more frustrating than if I hadn't done it at all. 229 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:54,000 But there's a part of me that has a weird feeling that this is going to find somebody. 230 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,000 It's going to find somebody who does care. 231 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:04,000 And I mean, imagine, like imagine if that's you and you're able to, you're able to solve this case. 232 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:09,000 Because you got two families involved here. It's not just all about the victim. 233 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,000 It's about the person that was driving the car. They're family, too. 234 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:21,000 Like if my kid's the guy that's driving the car that hits somebody and they die, like that's going to impact me, too. 235 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,000 And don't think that that is lost on me. It's not. 236 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:29,000 I'm not here to try to ruin a young man's life if this just turned out to be an accident. 237 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:34,000 Not by any stretch of the imagination. I don't need to bear that cross. 238 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:39,000 Okay. But you know, if the guy's innocent, then those facts need to come out, too. 239 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:44,000 Because that's, that's going to give some peace to his family, right? 240 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:49,000 He didn't do it. It was an accident. All the other stuff that's out there is bullshit. 241 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,000 Clear your name, man. Clear your name. 242 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,000 That's, that's going to be better for, for their family, too. 243 00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:01,000 So, all right. Nothing to do with bagels today. 244 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:09,000 But hopefully some logic thrown in there, little history, all that kind of good stuff. 245 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:16,000 Yeah. Do me a fair, man. Show this episode. Get on that webpage. Do anything. 246 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:24,000 I don't know. Maybe I said, if this case, not this podcast, if this case finds the right person, 247 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:30,000 then, and there's some resolution that's, that comes out of it. 248 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:35,000 I mean, you've, you've done good. You've done good. 249 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:40,000 All right. So there we go. Once again, thanks for listening. 250 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,000 Bagologic podcast.