0:09

Welcome. To episode Two thirty one of the

0:11

Beer Marriage Podcast. I'm sure there are a

0:13

great girl from Bear marriage.com where we live:

0:15

Psycho but healthy evidence based biblical advice, your

0:17

sex life and your marriage. I am joined

0:19

today by my daughter Rebecca Linton but hello

0:21

and Becca Guess what we're going to did

0:23

say. What? Do we do? We are

0:25

going to dedicate an entire podcast to

0:27

a comment that I often get that

0:29

I'm a little bit sick out for

0:31

sit and I just got one place

0:33

where we demolish the arguments that I

0:35

can send people here and say hey,

0:37

if you think that, go listen here.

0:40

So we've done this before. Your father

0:42

and I did a podcast a while

0:44

ago on Obligations Act so every time

0:46

you know but Obligations x we did

0:48

a podcast on why if you are

0:50

acting a Gala Terry and you should

0:52

just call yourself a gallon Terry not

0:54

commentary. And so we demolished all those arguments and

0:56

today we want to look at the accusation that

0:58

we often get. which I think it's so silly

1:00

that were telling women you don't ever need to

1:02

have sex exactly yes sir were good but before

1:04

we do that we have a few think he

1:07

is the on start. Our first

1:09

only one say thank you to like we

1:11

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1:13

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2:00

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2:05

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It's just something that simple can also help

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get the word out about the Bear Marriage

2:55

podcast. All right, Becca, do you want to

2:57

introduce this topic or do you want me

2:59

to jump into it? Sure. So we're going

3:02

to, I'm not going to, we're not going to read the

3:04

comment word for it because often what happens is that people

3:06

go back and they find it and

3:08

then they go after the person. So we're

3:11

just going to paraphrase, but we

3:13

get these kinds of sentiments quite frequently where it's

3:15

like, I just don't

3:17

know about this because if we tell women

3:19

that they don't have to have sex unless

3:21

they want to have sex, then men will

3:23

not get enough sex. Like these poor

3:25

men will have all these needs that aren't

3:27

being met. And so, you know,

3:30

they're just, you guys don't think about men's

3:32

needs at all. Men's needs are being neglected.

3:34

This is a problem. And if I only

3:37

had sex and I wanted to, well, then

3:39

I'd never have sex. So I think to

3:41

myself, you know, and this actually is from

3:43

the, why don't you read the actual quote for this part?

3:46

Yeah. So please, please don't, don't, don't go and

3:48

find it. Okay. But she says this, you

3:51

know, if I only

3:53

did things and I really felt like

3:55

it, my children wouldn't have breakfast most

3:57

days. They wouldn't receive a great homeschool

3:59

education. The dishes would be piled up

4:01

and laundry would be undone. But

4:03

because I've experienced the loving transformation of

4:05

Christ's undeserving love in my life, I

4:07

serve those around me. And

4:12

that's a very common sentiment,

4:14

especially from women, I will say, because there's

4:16

a lot of women out there who do

4:19

primarily have sex out of service. And

4:23

they may have kind of thought to

4:25

themselves they're not doing it out of obligation, they're

4:27

doing it out of service. And so then they

4:29

get very angry when we suggest that women might

4:31

have sex because they want it. Because

4:34

that feels like a personal attack. Yeah. Right?

4:37

Because sex is personal, right? Sex is really intimate. It's

4:40

personal. Like we say, it's supposed to

4:42

be intimate, mutual and pleasurable. But in both. But

4:44

in intimate, intimacy is really, really

4:46

scary. And it's really, really vulnerable.

4:49

So when you see someone coming

4:51

with data saying, hey, what you're

4:53

doing only works until it doesn't.

4:56

Like what you're doing is actually destroying your

4:58

sex life from the inside out. You are

5:00

causing your sex life to atrophy based on

5:02

the stats. You've got a good, what is

5:04

it? Like what do we say? Like about 15,

5:06

15 years of this kind

5:08

of mentality of, well, I do it because I love him. I do

5:10

it because it's good for marriage. I do it because like, and I

5:12

don't want to have sex. I don't like sex very much. Like, I

5:14

don't like it, but I'm going to do it no matter what, because

5:16

I do laundry, I do dishes, I do sex. Right?

5:19

Like it's a part of your mentality. It only

5:21

lasts for so long. And then your marriage is

5:23

actually going to be destroyed. Sex

5:25

is really personal and that can feel like

5:28

an attack and people get really defensive. Yeah.

5:30

Right? Because we all know this

5:33

is personal. Yeah. But

5:35

what we want to tell you is what we're saying, it's

5:37

not personal. It's based on the stats. That's

5:39

right. It's based in data. And when people

5:42

are really frustrated about this idea that, oh, if I only have

5:44

sex and I want to, I'd never have sex. There's two questions

5:46

I want to ask. Okay. What

5:48

do you mean by don't want? And

5:51

do you like sex? Yep. And if

5:54

we can answer those two questions, a lot of this

5:56

just kind of sort to tell them. Yeah. Because

5:59

what we've been saying. is that

6:01

our approach to sex is actually

6:03

hurting and changing the very nature

6:05

of sex. Exactly. Because

6:07

when people turn sex into merely

6:09

being about men's sexual needs and

6:11

never mention that women can have

6:14

needs and desires too. I know, it's so funny. I

6:16

get to any high drive wife and it's like, yeah,

6:18

girls have needs. You know what I mean? But

6:22

they talk about men's sexual needs

6:24

and the fact that our whole

6:26

orientation toward sex needs to be

6:28

serving by giving something that we

6:30

don't want. Yes. And

6:32

then sex is no longer something

6:35

which flows out of our relationship,

6:37

which is an expression of how

6:39

we are together, which flows from

6:42

intimate connection. Sex becomes merely

6:44

something that I do when I

6:47

don't want to. Exactly. And that

6:49

has repercussions both for your relationship

6:52

and for how we frame sex and

6:54

how we see sex and how we define

6:56

sex. And that's what we've been saying. We

6:59

haven't been, you know, and people are like,

7:01

but if you tell women that they

7:03

only have to have sex when they

7:05

want to, then men will never get

7:07

sex. To which our reply is, the data

7:09

does not say that. Exactly. And also if

7:11

that's your experience, then you're doing it wrong.

7:14

Yeah. And that might not be your fault.

7:16

You may have gotten terrible sex education. You

7:19

may have had just life throw a bunch

7:21

of crap at you all at once. Yeah.

7:24

The idea that we're doing something wrong doesn't

7:26

need to mean you're a horrible person. That's

7:29

not what we're saying. Yeah. The idea that

7:31

you're doing something wrong means, hey, this is

7:33

something that can be fixed. Exactly. We can

7:35

do better. It doesn't need to be your

7:38

forever. This doesn't need to be what you

7:40

just resign yourself to for the rest of

7:42

your life. So first of all, we

7:44

need to talk about the concept of need before we

7:46

move forward. OK. Because we hear this all the time.

7:48

Men have needs. Yes. And before we even do that,

7:50

you know what is the basic need? What? Water. And

7:53

we are drinking our water, for

7:55

those of you on YouTube, out of

7:57

our merch. We have these insulated thermoses.

8:00

that can work for water or something hot. And

8:02

I am drinking mine out of our prayer, intent,

8:04

pegs, and prophecy and leadership and preaching the gospel

8:06

to all that will hear that is biblical womanhood.

8:08

And I have one of our limited edition runs

8:10

from last year, which is not currently available, but

8:12

it's a good reminder that whenever we send an

8:14

email out about a limited edition run, they really

8:17

are limited edition anti-rape raccoon mug. We honestly might

8:19

bring this back for like a 48 hour flash

8:21

sale at some point, because a lot of people

8:23

have asked for it again. But I did a

8:25

podcast where we were talking about the idea that

8:27

boys can't stop and I was getting pushback from

8:29

the host saying, yeah, but like once a certain

8:32

point, like it's just really hard for guys to

8:34

stop. And like girls need to understand this so

8:36

they can protect themselves. And I said, if a

8:39

rabid raccoon were to jump into

8:41

the room, but they boy is having sex

8:43

in, he would be able

8:45

to stop having sex in order to protect

8:47

himself in the rabid raccoon. Okay. That means

8:49

that he is able to, that means he

8:51

has the control to stop, which means he

8:53

should stop at her. No. Yes. Right. Exactly.

8:55

Anyway, so I did it better in the

8:57

podcast, but that line became a bit of

8:59

a viral hit among our patrons. Yeah. So

9:01

we made anti-rape raccoon mugs. Yes. Excellent transition

9:03

into the merch pit. Yeah. So you

9:05

can check out our merch. The podcast

9:08

link is there. We have a lot of

9:10

different designs, two biblical womanhood ones, our biblical

9:12

manhood, our love and respect. I don't

9:14

even know what's up in the store anymore. Yes.

9:16

Our new Jezebel, which is really fun. They call

9:18

me Jezebel. Yeah. For all the women who have

9:20

stood up for equality and been met with personal

9:22

attacks. Yes. So all of those things are there

9:24

when you buy our merch. It helps support what

9:27

we do too. Okay. So let's talk about needs.

9:29

Yeah. Let's talk about needs. Okay. So

9:31

here's the thing. We

9:34

have taken sexual needs and in the

9:36

common vernacular, we don't separate the two

9:38

sides of a sexual need. Okay. So

9:40

you have the physiological drive, the sex

9:42

drive, the urge to have sex. Yes.

9:44

And the idea that sex is a

9:46

human need. It absolutely is. Okay. I

9:48

love to say it's not a need.

9:51

Okay. Let's all take

9:53

second and calm down. It is a need. Sex

9:55

is absolutely a human need. It is. Everyone

9:58

agrees that it is. Okay. You're We're not going

10:00

to find someone who says that there is not

10:02

a biological, physiological need for sex, okay? Because

10:05

we have to have sex in order to reproduce. And

10:08

organisms exist in order to

10:10

reproduce and then die. That is genuinely, from

10:12

a biological standpoint, that is the way that

10:14

our bodies are made. We have so many

10:16

things in our bodies that help us reproduce,

10:18

get those little things that we made into

10:20

adulthood so that they can reproduce, and then

10:22

we all die, okay? What

10:25

is not a need is to

10:27

enact that sexual urge onto someone

10:29

else who is unwilling, okay?

10:32

So the need for sex,

10:34

and partnered sex is an unwilling partner, they

10:37

don't cross, right? Okay? So

10:39

you can have sexual needs, and

10:41

then you can have partnered sex. Yes. But

10:44

you don't get to say, because I want to have

10:46

sex, you have to do what I want right now

10:48

no matter what you are feeling. That

10:51

is not a need. So when we

10:53

say sex is a need, what people often hear

10:55

is, well then I have to do what

10:57

he wants because I have to have all the sex that he

10:59

wants because it is a need. No.

11:02

The concept of sex is a need. Humans

11:06

have sex drives unless something got in the way. And by

11:08

the way, yes, that includes women too. There are studies on

11:10

that. We are about to talk about it in a minute.

11:13

Yes. But you do not

11:15

have a need to use someone as a

11:17

masturbatory aid at your own

11:19

discretion. That is absolutely not a need. So

11:21

let's just separate those two in our minds.

11:23

And we want to say even single people

11:25

have sexual needs. Everybody has sexual needs. And

11:28

we can learn to sublimate those needs into

11:30

other things. You know, that is what a

11:32

lot of life is, right? So

11:35

yes, we understand. And maybe we will do a podcast

11:37

on that at another time. Yeah, like we all have

11:39

a need for food, right? I don't have the need

11:41

to take your food. Right. Right?

11:45

That is the difference. And the need for sex is very different

11:47

from the need for food and water and air and shelter. I

11:49

mean, there are more fundamental things. Absolutely. But

11:51

yeah, it is not the most base. But it

11:53

is one of the base needs. And so we

11:56

do want to first of all validate people who

11:58

are in a situation. where it's like I'm not

12:00

getting any of my sexual needs met. That is

12:02

a valid and very, very difficult place to be

12:04

in. And I know that that's hard for a

12:06

lot of people who have been in the position

12:09

where they're the lower drive spouse and felt a

12:11

lot of guilt, but also the people who have

12:13

a higher sex drive, they also do struggle. Especially

12:15

a lot of women with the higher sex drive

12:17

because they're never told, hey, you might have the

12:19

higher sex drive, they're not prepared for it. And

12:22

then they're like, he doesn't want as much as

12:24

I do and they're so caught off guard. And

12:26

that can be very difficult to deal with. So

12:29

you do understand that. But the two needs,

12:31

they are separate. Nary the two

12:33

should meet. You don't get to force

12:35

someone because you're uncomfortable. Or pressure someone who are saying

12:37

that because I have a need is your job to

12:40

fulfill it. Or guilt them exactly. So I just wanted

12:42

to get that off the bat as we start this

12:44

conversation. That we're saying we're not saying that

12:46

you're not supposed to feel a sexual need.

12:49

I'm not saying that. We're also

12:51

not saying that it's your spouse's

12:53

job to fulfill your every sexual

12:55

win. Right. We're not. And so

12:57

both the people who don't like the

12:59

idea of sex is a need and the people who

13:02

really, really want sex to be a need,

13:04

we recognize both those can

13:06

be true. Mm-hmm. So now

13:08

that we've gotten that disclaimer out of the way,

13:10

so that hopefully we can all do it on

13:12

the same page, let's ask one of those two

13:14

questions. What do you mean by you don't want

13:16

sex? And does sex feel

13:18

good? Okay. I think you have some

13:21

stats about this. I do. So mostly

13:23

what they're saying is, if you tell

13:25

women that they only have to have

13:27

sex when they want it, then

13:29

women are never going to have sex.

13:31

Exactly. Okay? Because the idea is, unless

13:33

she is raring to go, unless she

13:36

totally desires sex, she's never going to

13:38

have sex. And since women don't do that,

13:40

that's the assumption, since women don't like sex

13:42

and aren't raring to go, then if we

13:44

give women permission to say, I don't have

13:46

to have sex if I don't want it,

13:48

then they're never going to have sex. Exactly.

13:50

Now, the thing is, we've never said that.

13:52

No. No. And there's a whole chapter in

13:54

The Great Sex Rescue. Absolutely. On

13:56

how, hey, if sex is good for

13:59

you, If you're enjoying sex when

14:01

you're having it, if you're feeling close to

14:03

your spouse when you're having sex, then

14:06

how about we make this a priority in your life? Yeah.

14:09

You know? But the thing is, that's a

14:11

secondary question. It is. Because

14:13

how we handle how often we have sex

14:15

and whether or not sex should be a

14:17

part of your marriage or how much sex

14:19

should be a part of your marriage, we're

14:22

only allowed to ask that question once

14:25

we've already ascertained, are you having

14:27

proper sex in the first place? Yeah, and that's where

14:29

this, what do you mean by don't want comes into

14:31

play. Because what we found is

14:33

that among women who just don't have

14:36

sex, there are often certain things

14:38

at play. Okay, so it

14:40

is okay to feel like sex is a need. It

14:43

is absolutely, it's not okay to make someone else

14:45

fulfill that need. Exactly. That's what we're saying. Now

14:47

the second question is, what

14:49

does it mean to want sex? And what is the

14:52

sex that we're actually experiencing? And this is what, I

14:54

think this is actually gets to the heart of the

14:56

problem. And I wanna work through this so

14:59

that then we can get to what we're actually,

15:01

you know, telling couples to do. Okay, so

15:03

here's the issue. The way that this

15:05

woman was framing sex was like, I

15:08

need to serve my husband in the

15:10

same way that I don't wanna do

15:12

the dishes, that I'm so tired of

15:15

homeschool, I don't wanna do laundry, but I

15:17

do those things, so I need to do him. Right?

15:22

I don't wanna scrape that oatmeal off the edge

15:25

of the calendar because my three year old threw

15:27

it in the fit of rage and I gave

15:29

her blueberries instead of strawberries. I

15:31

don't want to deal with the peas and crust

15:33

it into my two year old neck folds. I

15:36

do and similarly. Yeah. Like,

15:38

this is the problem. And

15:42

when you're framing sex, like Jesus transforming

15:44

power enables me to do things I

15:46

don't wanna do and so I need

15:48

to have sex. And just as Jesus

15:50

saved me, even when I was undeserving,

15:52

so I need to give my husband

15:55

sex when he's undeserving. Can

15:58

I just, can I just. This

16:02

is a touch point for me.

16:05

The idea is we actually break down what's

16:07

being said here. Okay? Often

16:10

what we do in Christian circles is

16:12

we use really theological language to say

16:14

something outrageous. Okay. And it

16:16

doesn't sound outrageous because it's real pretty. Yeah. Okay.

16:20

What she's saying here is because Jesus died on the cross for

16:22

you, you have to have sex with someone

16:24

you don't want to have sex with. Right. That

16:27

is the actual thing here. I

16:29

hope we can all agree that is

16:31

an outrageous logical jump. Okay.

16:34

Like Jesus died for me so that I

16:36

put out more. Yeah. That is

16:39

an outrageous logical jump. Yeah. Also,

16:41

Jesus's death on the

16:44

cross is not meant to be

16:46

used as a battering ram against

16:48

his children. He is not, God

16:50

is not sitting there with like

16:52

his son smashing you over the

16:54

head saying you should feel worse

16:56

about yourself. Feel bad, feel bad,

16:58

feel bad. He's not. Jesus's death

17:00

was a gift, not

17:02

a guilt inducing weapon.

17:05

For God sent not a son into the

17:08

world to condemn the world, but that the

17:10

world might be saved through him. You know,

17:12

this is full on this condemnation. We do

17:15

this where we say, well, Jesus died for

17:17

you. Jesus died for you. He died. So

17:19

are you dying? Is having sex you don't have

17:21

dying? Isn't the same as dying? Because Jesus died for you.

17:23

He died for you. You are so ungrateful. You are grateful

17:26

little wench. You won't even put out for her husband when

17:28

Jesus died. He's your husband. Put out. Jesus

17:30

died for you. You die. Are you

17:32

dying? Are you really dying? If you're not dying, it's

17:34

not enough. If you're not dying, you're never enough unless

17:37

you're actively dying. You're not enough. That is not what

17:39

the cross was about. It's

17:43

not. It's not. And

17:45

I feel so sorry for people who see the

17:47

cross like that because you completely miss the entire

17:49

point of the gospel. You

17:51

miss the entire point of who Jesus is and you're

17:53

serving a God who's not in the God,

17:56

who doesn't even exist. It's like

17:58

you're living out the parable. the

18:00

talents with the servant who says, And

18:19

that's what's happening with sex. It is.

18:21

Is that we're burying our talents and we're losing

18:23

passion and we're losing joy because we don't even

18:25

understand what sex is. And so, you know, when

18:27

people say to us, hey, if

18:30

you only have sex that

18:32

you want, then women

18:34

will never have sex. It's like, what

18:37

kind of sex are you having? There's

18:39

another logical option here. Yeah,

18:42

that's a problem. And so, let's

18:45

go through some new stats. I actually have some new

18:47

ones. There's two sets of new stats from Joanna today.

18:49

And Joanna really wanted to share this with you, but

18:51

she has laryngitis. And so she told me, Sheila, you've

18:53

got to do it. So I'm going to try it.

18:55

I'm going to do my best. But we're currently working

18:58

on a peer reviewed paper. And to do that, Joanna

19:00

created the sexual satisfaction scale out of our survey of

19:02

20,000 women that we did for the Great

19:04

Sex Rescue. And she put

19:06

three things in that scale. Okay. How

19:09

likely you are to feel aroused during sex,

19:11

like, you know, whether you anticipate being aroused,

19:13

whether you frequently orgasm and whether

19:15

you feel emotionally connected during sex. Now,

19:17

the way scale works, maybe you should explain this

19:19

because you know more about stats than me, but...

19:21

Yeah, there's a lot of different types of validity

19:23

testing and they all kind of converge around this

19:25

idea of making sure that you're actually testing what

19:27

you think you're testing. And so

19:29

one of the ways you can do that is you can

19:32

measure the correlation between different questions. And

19:34

if the correlation is high and that means that they all

19:36

move together. So here's what Joanna did. We

19:38

used questions in the SSFI. SSFI.

19:41

The Female Sexual Function Index.

19:43

That's it. You did this. You

19:45

did the survey part, not me. You know this better. And

19:48

then Joanna created like a sub scale out of

19:50

three of those questions. And

19:52

basically the point is this. If

19:54

we're trying to measure the same thing,

19:56

if the questions are measuring the same

19:58

thing, the answers should move

20:00

together. So if people say yes on one,

20:03

they should also be saying yes on the

20:05

other. So if the scale is going to

20:07

be accurate, if the scale really is a

20:10

proper measure of female satisfaction, then all

20:12

of these things should move together. They

20:14

shouldn't move apart or one of them

20:16

shouldn't stand on its own. And

20:19

the way they tell that is you want to see a correlation

20:21

of about 90%. So

20:23

when one moves, the other is like 90% likely

20:25

to move too, right? Like

20:28

they're going to move together. And that's what

20:30

we did for these three measures, you know,

20:32

arousal, orgasm, feeling emotionally connected. Now,

20:35

we didn't have a correlation of 90% though. We

20:38

had one of 96%, like this stuff

20:40

really moves together. Okay?

20:45

So here's the thing. People

20:48

who are saying she should have

20:50

sex even if she doesn't enjoy it,

20:52

even if she doesn't like it because

20:54

it's going to help their marriage. Yes.

20:57

No, it doesn't. Shoot yourself in

21:00

the foot there, bud. You're hurting

21:02

yourself because if she has sex where

21:04

she doesn't enjoy it, if she's not

21:06

getting aroused, she is not

21:08

going to feel intimately connected. If

21:11

you take out the arousal, if

21:13

you take out the orgasm, you

21:15

also lose the intimately connected. Yeah.

21:18

And we actually found in our first survey for the great

21:20

sex rescue that typically, you know, you can

21:22

do this whole thing where it's like, I

21:24

have sex because I serve my husband because

21:26

Christ died for me and so I need

21:28

to die. Yes. So

21:31

you can have that mindset and it

21:33

quote unquote works for

21:36

about 10 to 15 years. And

21:38

often not even that much, but like on like, there are

21:40

people who it seems to be that around the 10 to

21:42

15 year mark, it breaks. Yeah, it

21:44

just breaks. Or the 20 year mark. But

21:47

like, it's not the whole marriage. It's not like you

21:49

can just keep going and everything's totally fine. It does

21:52

seem like it's one of those things where it works

21:54

until it doesn't. And you know what?

21:56

There's a way that works. Yeah. And

21:58

it just doesn't stop working. Stop

22:00

giving the advice that worse until it doesn't. And

22:03

thirteen Vice City's west. Yeah, and we visited in

22:05

a new marriage book which is coming up next

22:07

year. the marriage she wants. We measured a number

22:09

of different things that wasn't just sex, but there's

22:12

a number different areas of marriage where you've got

22:14

this unfairness thing going on in some way, And

22:16

it does. It's always the woman sonos as the

22:18

guy who's who's. Got. The appearance. Think

22:20

that you know each to put up with

22:22

it for like fifteen years. But it twenty

22:25

years you're not put up with it anymore

22:27

and something just breaks. Yeah, until they say

22:29

that, because a lot of people say yes,

22:31

I do this. I guess service after my

22:33

marriage is greatly Cabot. You know we're not

22:35

like we're not saying you don't exist. What

22:37

we're saying is is that statistically speaking, it's

22:39

very, very likely that those marriages on an

22:41

earlier point of a very negative directory, right

22:43

right? so it might be working great for

22:45

you now. Statistically, Speaking that is

22:47

not say the case and ten years and I

22:49

think we're all here because we want marriage of

22:51

the don't only last for ten years to get

22:53

my we'll all marriages that are when and where

22:55

were you just miserable for lunch? Geek in a

22:58

you eaten you can sweat it out for the

23:00

first fifteen years and he convinced himself this is

23:02

good, You can convince yourself hey I enjoy serving

23:04

my husband's but at twenty years you don't enjoy

23:06

it anymore. Yeah, Hannity, keep doing it. Don't enjoy

23:08

any desire to help your birth and you get

23:10

more and more bitter as an you feel guilty

23:12

for being bitter and it's all just ugly and

23:14

I don't want that know and this. Is what

23:16

we're trying to do people as were saying hey,

23:18

there's a better way and so can we talk

23:21

about that better way says So. What?

23:23

We're doing here. Bear Marriages were addressing the

23:25

foundation staff were saying hey maybe you just

23:27

thinking about sex wrong and your experience of

23:29

sex is wrong So we we set this

23:32

a lot as it is on almost every

23:34

podcast I'm on where on a guest we

23:36

said it in the great success que that

23:38

we found these. Books. And.

23:41

Case by things that when these things

23:43

are present frequency take care of itself.

23:45

all of the fighting were doing about

23:47

whether or not she should have sex

23:49

of she doesn't in want to see

23:51

if you cut this? I think that's

23:53

not an issue via okay and here's

23:55

those by thinks a Reddit see frequently

23:57

orgasms during sex is high marital satisfaction.

24:00

She feels emotionally connected during sex.

24:02

There's no sexual dysfunction and there's

24:04

no porn use in the merits.

24:06

Yep or it. Would. You get those

24:09

five things present. Then we're

24:11

no longer having. Conversations about

24:13

frequency is a very rare that happens.

24:15

Okay, so and I want to, I

24:17

want to demonstrate how rare it is.

24:19

Awesome! Okay, so Joanna decided to do

24:21

the stats. Had a totally different ways

24:23

of just for fun. To that. listen,

24:25

do this exercise for fun vs. okay

24:27

seats. See, look for a new marriage

24:29

but because we had a new set

24:31

of, we had a new set of

24:33

respondents. Okay, and she looked at the

24:36

number of women in that marriage survey.

24:38

Who. Had. Very. Low Libido Guess

24:40

Lola bit of the said the am I would

24:42

be those with low i just don't really

24:44

want sex says she Starts off with one thousand

24:47

Three Hundred and Fifty one women. Yeah, we'll have

24:49

a very hello or low sexual get roughly twenty

24:51

percent a rematch spare survey. Okay so so you

24:53

know, one thousand for under fifty one response

24:55

Then she asked hey do you orgasm when you

24:58

have sex. Yeah and. Now of

25:00

the sudden we only have five hundred and

25:02

seventy five respondents. Last has to enter Thanks

25:04

How much of this low desire can I

25:06

explain away yet? Rights for you Start with

25:09

to orgasm every time he has sex and

25:11

old son your own ego That five hundred

25:13

cited by women lot to say yes yes

25:15

the only so up that thirteen hundred and

25:17

like worth one thousand branch pretty once seven

25:19

hundred and fifteen said no I don't orgasm

25:22

would make sense he don't one sec. Yep

25:24

the like that explains it all right. Then

25:26

she said do you feel emotionally connected during

25:28

sex Yeah and about. Five Hundred Thirty Five

25:30

woman who do orgasm during sex Or

25:32

one hundred nineteen said no, I don't

25:34

feel emotionally connected during sex. Well, that

25:36

that's probably why you don't want that

25:39

makes certain things an impersonal, non intimate

25:41

experience. Even if you orgasm, that doesn't

25:43

mean that you're enjoying it around with

25:45

that. Not the Gordon's right. So now

25:47

left the Li Four hundred and forty

25:49

respond to this so that she said,

25:51

hey, do of pain during sex is

25:53

okay and One Hundred Sixty Two said

25:55

yeah, I do. Yes, So now we

25:57

left with only two hundred and seventy

25:59

one respondents. Out of the original,

26:01

One thousand, Three Hundred And Fifty One. Yes.

26:03

So how do those with doesn't really fifty

26:05

one? Only Two Hundred and Seventy One. Either

26:08

orgasm during sex, feel emotionally connected

26:10

and.of history. Yeah, okay, so liked.

26:13

Those three things have already explained

26:15

this: One thousand basically eighty five

26:17

percent? Yes, And that's before even

26:20

asking about pornography Yes, that's Buffalo

26:22

or asking about marital satisfaction and

26:24

mental load. So the people who

26:26

are like will women just don't

26:29

want sex is like, know, It's.

26:31

That women don't want sex where

26:33

they're not reaching orgasm with are

26:35

experiencing pain and when they're not

26:37

mostly connected? Yes answered. This is

26:40

what we're trying to say If

26:42

he would trust the foundational problems

26:44

first than frequency libido. We're gonna

26:46

grown as good, take care of

26:48

itself, We are

26:50

addressing the ninety percent problem.

26:52

Yeah, And people are getting

26:54

upset at us for not

26:56

addressing the ten percent problems.

26:58

Yes, Even that we do

27:00

as he a talk about in a

27:03

minute. Suspicious but this is than ninety

27:05

percent problem. Yeah can we please understand

27:07

this? You know if we also accounted

27:09

for porn and if we else accounted

27:11

for males as snacks it's you look

27:14

at about ninety percent of low desire

27:16

to be explained league very easily to

27:18

not like reach it's very easy it

27:20

is. I don't think that it should

27:23

be a very difficult to understand why

27:25

if some of experience of sex is

27:27

completely and orgasmic of sand into. And

27:29

impersonal or is painful or is

27:32

in a relationship where she feels

27:34

and valued or taken advantage of

27:36

or just ancestry that because she

27:38

doesn't have an equal partner. Those

27:41

things, It does not take someone

27:43

with the university degree in human

27:45

sexuality to understand why she might

27:47

not want sex as much. Yeah,

27:50

and so people, if you want

27:52

women to want sex, give her

27:54

sex. It's worth watching. This isn't

27:56

rocket science. Okay, good sex as

27:58

intimate needs. help for both. Good

28:01

sex does not involve porn use in the

28:03

marriage where she feels betrayed or where she

28:05

feels like she doesn't measure up or where

28:08

he's, you know, channeled his emotional needs into

28:10

into pornography and doesn't even know how to

28:12

relate to her anymore and so they don't

28:14

feel emotionally connected. Like good sex does not

28:16

involve all of these things and so if

28:18

you want her to want sex then deal

28:21

with these foundational things. That's the 90% problem

28:25

and that's what we're trying to say and

28:27

this is the issue and that is that

28:29

in the vast majority of sex

28:31

books in the thing that Josh Howardkin

28:33

did that we talked about on the

28:35

podcast last week with Jay Stringer, you

28:37

know, they're portraying the main problem with

28:39

sex is that women don't want sex

28:41

and what we're saying is no, that's

28:44

the 10% problem. The 90% problem is

28:46

that you're

28:49

not even dealing with sex because

28:51

sex is something, true sex is something which

28:53

is intimate, mutual, pleasurable for both. What you're

28:55

dealing with is one-sided intercourse. You're

28:57

telling women, hey you need to have one-sided intercourse

29:00

and we're saying no, you can't do that anymore.

29:02

We need to get back to what sex actually

29:04

is and that's the whole point of what we're

29:06

here for. What I find so funny too is

29:08

that what a lot of studies and we've talked

29:10

about these in the podcast before but because I'm

29:13

sure this is gonna be one that people kind

29:15

of send people to talk about this issue about.

29:17

I want to say it again. There's been studies

29:19

that show that women who have an orgasm the

29:22

first time that they have sex have the

29:24

same rates of high libido as men. So

29:27

if you take all women who

29:29

have had sex and all men

29:31

who have had sex and you

29:34

only compare the people who orgasm to the

29:36

first time they have sex, they have the

29:38

same rates of wanting sex a high amount.

29:40

They have the same objective measures of libido.

29:43

The problem is that that's a very, very small

29:46

number of women. So it's not

29:48

that women are not sexual, it's that women were given

29:50

crappy sex in the get-go. Yeah, right? And if you

29:52

are sitting there and you're like, well my wife doesn't

29:54

want sex, I'm like, yeah, like we didn't really figure

29:56

out an orgasm ever but I still

29:58

have needs that seem kind of unfair. for her

30:00

to, you know, not give me my needs when

30:02

she's the only one who can. I'm sitting there

30:05

and saying, you're telling me that you have a

30:07

woman who God created to be able to have

30:09

multiple orgasms and you've given her none? Like, this

30:11

is a situation where we need to figure out

30:13

whose needs are not being met. Yep.

30:16

Right? Like, what are we missing out on

30:18

here? And why on earth are you settling

30:20

for terrible one-sided sex when you could just

30:22

figure out how to make sex good for

30:24

both of you and then have the sex

30:26

that everyone actually wants? I'm sorry. The

30:28

only people who actively want sex

30:31

that their partner doesn't want are

30:33

on like Law and Order SVU,

30:35

right? Like, no one wants. Like,

30:37

if you crave sex that your

30:40

partner isn't into, you need therapy,

30:42

not sex. Okay? Like, most men,

30:44

even men who are having one-sided

30:46

sex, claim that they want or they would

30:48

prefer if their wife was into it.

30:50

Yep. Right? So, couples where orgasm has been

30:53

difficult, where sex has always been kind of

30:55

like, he has a libido and she kind

30:57

of needs to be like, you know, okay,

30:59

I guess it's been like a week, let's

31:01

go for it, right? Like, those kind of

31:03

couples, he wants her to want it. He

31:06

doesn't have to be like, yeah, I love

31:08

how you give me nothing. Like, that's

31:10

not a thing that healthy men who

31:12

love their wives want. Yes. And I do

31:14

want to say that it is

31:16

a thing in abusive marriages. We have seen

31:19

this a lot where as soon as she

31:21

starts enjoying sex, he doesn't want it anymore

31:23

because... He wants the power. For him, he

31:25

wants the power. And Doug Wilson talks about

31:27

this, how sex is not an egalitarian pleasure

31:29

party, but it has to be a conquest

31:32

and a conquering and a taking. Exactly. So,

31:34

like, her desire or her sex drive is

31:36

actually a turnoff because then it's no longer

31:38

a taking. And that's really toxic and scary.

31:40

But I want you to know, that's not

31:42

normal. No. Like, if someone enjoys the fact

31:45

that you don't want it, that is the

31:47

reddest red flag you could ever... Like, that is,

31:49

I would say... The red flag guy on TikTok

31:51

needs to be just... I'm

31:54

just a ringcrank. Goodness

31:57

gracious. That is not normal.

32:00

you're one of the guys who's not an

32:02

absolute piece of work who is

32:04

like, no, I do want her to have one sex. I

32:06

just have given up hope that that's even possible. Don't

32:09

give up hope that it's possible because the more that

32:11

you have this, this one side of sex, the more

32:13

you're teaching her brain, this isn't for you. This isn't

32:15

for you. This isn't for you. And some people have

32:17

done that for 17 years. And

32:19

I have a hard time

32:22

knowing what to say in those cases. But like if

32:24

you're at the beginning of your marriage, especially, and you're

32:26

like, Hey, we're on year two, it's been kind of

32:28

rough and I wanted marriage to be better than this.

32:31

Stop whatever you're doing. Don't keep going.

32:33

Do not pass couples.

32:37

Don't figure it out. Okay.

32:39

Cause like this is the kind of thing that you can fix

32:41

early on pretty easily. But there's

32:43

been a lot of research out there that shows that

32:45

when women have orgasmic sex and when

32:48

their marriages are equal and they don't feel

32:50

like they're being used as a maid or

32:52

a housekeeper, guess what? They have high libido's.

32:54

They desire partnered sex. They want to

32:56

have sex with their partners when they're like, yeah, you

32:58

make me feel good and you give me a good

33:01

life. They want to have sex with those

33:03

people. And that just means something's missing here.

33:05

That something's missing here. We need to figure out what that

33:07

missing piece is, not just tell women to say, Oh, well,

33:09

I guess we're just never going to have a good sex

33:11

life. And so you might as well just give me orgasms

33:13

anyway. Yeah. I think there's

33:15

like just a lot of negativity and hopelessness. Like, yeah, this

33:17

is never going to get better. And so I guess, you

33:20

know, but I still have my needs. And

33:22

so I guess we just still need to

33:24

go through the motions. It's like, no, you

33:26

don't, you don't, you can stop and you

33:29

can figure this out. And that's all we're

33:31

saying. Okay. And that ends up best in

33:33

the long run. And I think the people

33:35

who are reacting to us saying, you're just

33:37

emphasizing women's needs over men's needs. No, what

33:40

we're saying is you're not having real sex.

33:43

You're having bad sex guys. I'm sorry.

33:46

Emphasizing women's needs over men's needs. What

33:48

we're saying is not, Hey, men give

33:50

women orgasms while you don't get any.

33:52

We're saying, Hey, men, make sure you

33:54

will suffice as at least as many

33:56

orgasms as you know, are two very

33:58

different messages. Yeah. that

34:00

any time that anyone asks for women to just

34:02

get the same stuff as what men are getting

34:04

in sex, it's all of a sudden women are

34:06

more important than men. No, women

34:08

being more important than men is like you don't get any.

34:11

You get maybe one orgasm every quarter while she

34:13

gets as many as she asks you for. You

34:15

have to do all this other stuff and you

34:17

never get an orgasm and she has to get

34:19

all of them. And that's because

34:21

of how the Lord designed you as

34:23

a man to function. And

34:25

this is and Christ died for you. Yeah, so like,

34:27

why can't you do this for her? That would be

34:30

putting women above men. Yes. The man that

34:32

we typically have to women given to men,

34:34

yes, be putting women above men. But

34:36

that's not what we're saying. What we're saying is sex

34:38

should be good for both of you. That means

34:40

both of you as in both of you. Both

34:44

as a man and woman as

34:46

in woman and man, both of

34:48

you. Yeah. Putting women

34:51

above men, putting women at

34:53

equal footing to men in this situation.

34:56

Why on earth would someone not want

34:58

their wife to orgasm unless they had

35:00

a weird power issue here? But I

35:02

think a lot of men, and we've

35:04

done a podcast on this, honestly don't

35:06

believe that women do orgasm or can

35:08

orgasm or that it's just a big

35:10

deal to women. I think a lot

35:12

of men figure that women's pleasure is

35:14

secondary and that women just weren't built

35:16

for pleasure. In fact, a lot of

35:18

our resources say that, right? Jimmy Evans

35:20

and XO marriage, God gave men the need

35:22

for sex and women the gift of sex.

35:24

So, you know, women have this gift to

35:26

give men. Emerson Egrich never once mentions women's

35:28

pleasure. So even if they believe that women

35:30

can feel pleasure, they just don't think it

35:32

matters enough to women. So, you

35:35

don't need to prioritize this. And

35:37

this might, this is a personal

35:39

subjective opinion. If

35:43

someone says that they believe women can

35:45

feel pleasure, but that is just not

35:48

subjectively important to them, I highly, I'm

35:50

highly suspicious of if they've actually ever

35:52

experienced a woman experiencing pleasure. Yeah. Because

35:55

That is not typically

35:57

the experience. Wouldn't

36:06

we did up like a stunt wherever

36:08

Edwards said that he couldn't tell if

36:10

a one on was aroused. It's like

36:12

okay, authority the Us take and we're

36:14

considering you an expert on sex to

36:17

give sick of sex advice. And so

36:19

this is what we're saying. People were

36:21

saying this is the ninety percent at

36:23

if you deal with this stuff. it

36:25

takes care of itself. but if you

36:27

simply tell limits you have to have

36:29

sex that you don't want then you

36:32

end up hurting the marriage in the

36:34

long term. You might. Get more sex.

36:36

In the short term and more sex

36:38

that he wants. more intercourse, more orgasms

36:41

for him, but you don't actually build

36:43

into your marriage and so worth saying

36:45

hey, how? But if we take a

36:47

healthier approach, the War: Addressing the ninety

36:49

percent and they're getting really mad at

36:51

us for not addressing the ten percent,

36:53

which is when Six is good for

36:55

her, when there is high marital satisfaction,

36:57

but she still doesn't want sex. Except

36:59

we do address the temper. Says it was. Kind

37:03

of. We make a lot of her money

37:05

as as. Streets

37:08

like people's. Course.

37:12

That as really. Like it. Nothing's really help

37:14

lot of people. We have a whole chapter

37:16

on that in the Great Success you know

37:18

about Like How to prioritize sex and a

37:21

Healthy way We talk about this idea that

37:23

like hey if sex is good for you

37:25

you can't seem to want it necessitates you.

37:27

Let's figure out how to knit and wanting

37:29

it more because this this this place that

37:31

the main clicks the custom printed as if

37:34

they get other stuff like a you even

37:36

like six since night like is your marriage

37:38

even one in which teaches a logical solution

37:40

Like a logical it our flow of my

37:42

relationship with some. Merit as well

37:44

as she my orgasm but like Dos

37:46

is just terrible husband or they have

37:48

horrible like communication issues are working on

37:51

or they both kind of have some.

37:54

negative stuff brought in from their family of

37:56

origin like they might be other things will

37:58

end the marriage even though like the physical

38:00

act of sex is good, that makes you not want

38:02

to have sex, or their marriage could be pretty good

38:04

but sex has just always been terrible. There's things that

38:06

make sense. So if you're not one of those, if

38:09

you're like, I don't know why I don't

38:12

want sex. We

38:14

talk about that a lot. We talk about it a lot. But here's

38:16

the question I want to ask. What

38:18

do you mean by don't want? Okay. Right?

38:22

Because this is what I think we often get tripped up on

38:24

is people say, well, I feel like you'll have a conversation with

38:26

two different women and they'll say, well, sometimes I have sex and

38:28

I don't really want it and it's just really good for us.

38:30

It's really good for our marriage. And

38:32

what she means is sometimes I

38:35

would rather watch

38:37

reruns of Criminal Minds on the couch

38:39

while I eat a snack. But

38:42

then my husband wants to have sex and I'm like,

38:44

oh, it's good for me. I know it's going to

38:46

feel so good and I'm going to feel great once

38:49

I do it. It's just the cost of startup. That's

38:51

the problem. It's the startup cost. It's the, but I

38:53

just sat down. Right? It's that kind

38:55

of cost. And she says, no, you know what? I'm going

38:57

to do it. Let's go. Let's go have sex.

39:01

They have a great time. They feel connected. And

39:03

then afterwards she's like, I feel so nice. I

39:05

still got to watch my show. Like that's one

39:07

side of don't want. And so when she says I

39:09

have sex, I don't want to have, and then it

39:12

helps my marriage, what she means is my startup cost

39:14

is a little higher, but I

39:16

knew it was a worthy investment. Yes.

39:18

Because I knew I was going to get more than my favorite. I

39:20

was going to get more than what I put in back. Right?

39:23

I know I was going to get more energy. I was going

39:25

to have orgasm. I was going to feel confident. Feel great. Feel

39:27

sexy. All these different things. And so

39:29

that's one side. The other side is, well,

39:32

I have sex that I don't want to have and it helps my

39:34

marriage. What does she mean? She

39:36

means I'm exhausted. I

39:38

do not have enough help around the house. I

39:41

don't even know who I am anymore because I'm a

39:43

shell of a person because of how much the last

39:45

five years have taken from me. I

39:47

have never experienced pleasure during sex and I don't

39:49

think I ever will, but I'm so incredibly terrified

39:51

that if I don't have sex, I'm going to

39:53

be the reason our marriage falls apart. And so

39:56

I'm going to have sex even though I'm exhausted

39:58

and I'm going to end it. it feeling even

40:00

more disconnected from this person. I'm gonna look at

40:02

him and I say, yeah, but he loves me

40:04

and I should like this and I'm gonna convince

40:06

him. And at least he had a good time

40:08

because this is a really interesting thing that a

40:10

lot of studies have found too is

40:12

that women, when women judge their sexual

40:14

satisfaction, they often judge it in terms

40:17

of how happy he is, not in

40:19

terms of how happy they are. Yeah.

40:22

And men don't do that by the way. Men

40:24

don't do that. But women are like, as long

40:26

as he is satisfied because the whole point of

40:28

our sex life is to keep him satisfied and

40:30

to keep his sexual needs met. So if

40:32

I'm having sex like every 72 hours and

40:35

he's feeling good and he's filled up, his

40:37

cup is filled up as they often say,

40:39

you know, then our sex life is good.

40:41

And they're not asking themselves how they feel

40:43

about it. And so those two women can

40:45

use the same words and mean wildly different

40:47

things. Yeah. There are a lot of things

40:49

in life that make you

40:52

feel energized and great and

40:54

happy and have long-term

40:56

health benefits and get you to

40:58

like end goals that you want to get

41:00

to that have high startup costs in the

41:02

moment. Like big ones

41:05

are things like, you know, going for a walk

41:07

instead of just sitting on the couch or, you

41:09

know, using your free time to start a new

41:11

hobby instead of just doom scrolling on your phone.

41:13

Right? Like there's lots of things that it takes

41:15

a little bit more energy to get going. But

41:18

once you're going, that's like a catalyst and it's

41:20

easy to keep going. He's like, Oh, I love

41:22

this. Oh, I've forgotten how much I love painting.

41:24

I'm so glad I started doing this again. Like

41:26

when we wanted to do to sit on your

41:28

phone in bed, rot and watch Instagram reels, right?

41:31

Like that kind of thing of the idea of

41:33

a startup cost versus an actual real cost.

41:36

Right? So sexually say, Oh, I don't feel like

41:38

sex right now, but it's only a startup cost

41:40

problem. It's very different than I don't

41:42

want to have sex right now when it's a cost

41:45

of sucks problem. Yeah. Is the sucks going to cost

41:47

me or is there a site startup

41:49

cost and then I'm going to get that back?

41:51

Yeah. That's the question that I want people to

41:53

ask is when you say I don't want to

41:55

have sex, what do you mean? Cause if you

41:57

mean startup cost, say that. Oh,

42:00

it's hard to motivate myself to have sex. Well, when

42:02

I have sex, I'm always like, man, that was great.

42:04

I'm so glad I did that. And I always feel

42:06

more connected. Like actually, if you're going to be talking

42:08

to you about your sex life and giving advice, at

42:10

least be specific. Yeah, because what other people

42:12

are going to hear is not,

42:15

I have sex even when there's a

42:17

great startup cost. It's that I have

42:19

sex that costs me something. That costs

42:21

me a lot. That makes me feel

42:23

less emotionally connected. That makes me feel

42:25

used. That makes me feel less

42:27

important in the marriage. And I do that over

42:29

and over again because I know it's good for

42:32

the marriage. And it's not. It's not. We're

42:34

often, the thing about women too versus men

42:36

is by nature of how sex works, we're

42:39

very, very, very hesitant to talk about pleasure.

42:41

So men, they say I have sex

42:43

and it's implied that they had an

42:46

orgasm. It's not the same for

42:48

women. Right? You kind of like that.

42:50

And I think what has happened a lot of times too is

42:52

women give each other sex advice and you talk to friends and

42:54

talk to your brother, the leader. Talking about

42:56

orgasm feels really personal.

42:59

And I think that's kind of funny because you're already

43:01

talking about sex. I'm

43:03

not saying describe the orgasm. I'm

43:05

not going to say help any. I'm not saying anything.

43:07

I'll say like, yeah, I said when he did

43:09

actually say that, what happened to me? I'm like,

43:12

you don't know what I'm saying. What I'm saying

43:14

is if you're talking about these things already, please

43:16

be explicit about if you experience pleasure or not.

43:18

And I don't mean pleasure. I felt good. I

43:20

mean orgasm. Because if you're giving

43:23

advice to women about how they should

43:25

be having frequent sex because it's good

43:27

for their marriage, but you're not saying

43:29

but that sex should be orgasmic, then

43:31

what women are hearing is even if

43:34

I'm in pain, even if he's using

43:36

porn, even if I don't experience orgasm,

43:38

I still need to let him use

43:40

my body. Exactly. And those are

43:42

two such very different things. Yeah. And

43:44

that's why I'm a really big fan of actually

43:47

not giving personal advice and that's why we don't.

43:50

I mean, we're also mother-daughter teams. We

43:52

put very strong bounds. Yeah. We

43:54

just talk about research. We don't talk about our own experiences. If you're

43:56

in a position where you have to give sex advice, then maybe you

43:58

should give maybe you

44:00

were asked to do a sex module in a

44:02

women's Bible study or something. The

44:04

main thing is my advice for you, because

44:06

I do think this is important to say

44:09

with this topic, because this topic is typically

44:11

taught from other women. The

44:13

big thing is, if you're talking about sex,

44:15

just don't make it personal, talk about research.

44:17

Say, you know, use our stuff. Use our

44:19

stuff, say like there are five things that

44:22

if these are taken care of, sex

44:24

kind of automatically flows pretty

44:27

darn well from the

44:29

relationship, focus on those five things. You don't

44:31

have to say, well, when Brad and I,

44:33

that's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying

44:35

like, use the research, but it needs to

44:37

be explicit that if you

44:39

are not having an orgasm, it makes sense

44:41

if you don't want sex. You

44:43

know, if your marriage is not a good marriage, it

44:46

makes sense, you don't want sex. These

44:48

things have to be explicitly said because

44:50

we've been talking about it so much

44:52

in these Christianese terms, and women

44:55

do not have the benefit that men do

44:57

of assumed pleasure. And

45:00

so we need to actually be a little bit

45:02

more explicit when we're talking about women's sexuality and

45:04

about sexuality in general because of that lack of

45:07

implied pleasure for specifically women. That's just a little

45:09

thing that I would say is, if you have

45:11

to talk about sex, please do not make it

45:13

implied. Please don't assume people, oh,

45:15

they understand what I mean. No, actually. We

45:17

found in our study for She Deserves Better

45:20

that many, many women did not actually even

45:22

realize that the female orgasm existed until after

45:24

they were 18. If

45:27

you have a young marriage group where you have people who are married at 18, 19,

45:29

20, you may actually have

45:31

a lot of women who are in a marriage and don't even realize that

45:33

women are in the orgasm. 30 to 40%. It's

45:36

a lot in the evangelical church. And so this stuff

45:38

needs to not be implied anymore because that's when we

45:40

get comments like this person who we're talking about where

45:42

it's like, well, I don't wanna do the dishes and

45:45

I don't wanna do him, so I'll do

45:47

them both. Well, what if she had been

45:49

told at 19 that, hey, it's weird that

45:51

you don't want to do, it's January the 19th. I'm

45:54

back on the early marriage stuff. What happens if

45:56

in the first year of marriage, she had been

45:58

told, actually, you. should want to

46:00

do him. Like what

46:02

if she had been told, you know, actually sex

46:04

should feel like you also got a need Matt,

46:07

not that you're just proud of yourself for meeting

46:09

his need. Right? What if

46:11

she was told early on, actually, you know,

46:13

if sex feels like a chore, maybe we

46:15

should look at whether or not there's just

46:17

too much on your plate. And maybe you

46:19

just are overwhelmed and burnt out. And that's

46:21

a valid and normal response to a lot

46:23

of the the expectations put on

46:25

especially moms and wives. Yeah. What if we

46:28

had those conversations earlier on, instead of saying,

46:30

Christ died for you? Yeah,

46:32

exactly. And

46:36

I think that's just, that's just

46:38

what we wanted to say is that we are

46:40

often accused and told, Hey, you're saying women don't

46:43

have to have sex. And it's like, no, no,

46:45

no, no, no. We're saying that

46:47

when you address the foundations, this isn't

46:49

a problem anymore. And so can we

46:51

please just address the foundations? And

46:54

we have an orgasm course that can help

46:56

you do that. So we have courses for

46:58

those foundations, the great sex rescue addresses those

47:01

foundations, good girls guide to great sex, good

47:03

guys guide to great sex address those foundations

47:05

to help couples start well. And so if

47:07

we get the foundations right, then we wouldn't

47:09

be talking about this all the time. So

47:11

please, let's address the 90%. And

47:13

then as for the 10%, yeah, you

47:16

know, if you think something is awesome, and

47:18

you're experiencing it as awesome, when you do

47:20

have it, but it has that high startup

47:22

cost, then you got to figure

47:24

out a way to prioritize it because it is

47:26

good for you. And you're going to enjoy it

47:29

that you're going to be a happier, better, not

47:31

better, just like moral, but like, in terms of

47:33

like, my life feels better. And, you know,

47:36

and when you are in a good marriage,

47:38

that is part of a good marriage. And

47:40

it is legitimate when you are in a

47:42

good marriage, and your spouse is in a

47:44

good is also experiencing a good marriage. Okay.

47:47

And you're both supporting each other and sex

47:49

feels good. But one of you and it

47:51

could be her, it could be him, it's

47:53

not always him. One of you feels like

47:55

sex isn't happening enough to have that conversation,

47:57

you know, say what, what can I do

47:59

to make the startup cost lower for you. You

48:02

know, does it mean that we

48:04

have to teach the kids to sleep better? Do we

48:06

need to get to bed earlier? Like what do we

48:08

need to do and address that startup cost? That is

48:10

totally legit. We have a whole chapter on that in

48:12

the grade six. We have

48:14

a course on it, boost your libido. And so I

48:17

just I'm not going to stand for people telling

48:19

us that we're saying this when we're not. Our

48:21

plea is this though to the evangelical church, please

48:24

stop talking about the 10% when the 90% hasn't been addressed. Okay,

48:29

you don't get to talk about the 10% until you've addressed

48:31

the 90%. And so

48:33

you don't get to rail on women for not wanting

48:35

sex until you've addressed the 47 point

48:37

orgasm gap. You don't need to

48:40

rail on women for not desiring sex and

48:42

not filling their spouse's needs. When you haven't

48:44

addressed the 50% porn problem or the 23%

48:47

vaginismus problem. Like we've

48:50

got to address the foundations. And that's what we do

48:52

here at bear marriage. And we're just so

48:54

happy that so many people are finding freedom. So

48:56

we wanted to take this podcast and address that

48:58

critique, because we think it's silly, and we're not going

49:00

to stand for it. So there

49:02

you go. And before we leave

49:05

just a couple of notes of what's coming up.

49:07

She deserves better. It's almost one. It is

49:10

one, I think in two weeks. I think

49:12

something like I don't know exactly what this

49:14

podcast coming up, but it's one on the

49:16

18th. Yeah, so it is almost one year

49:18

old. So that is really exciting. And we're

49:22

just so pleased with with what we've heard from

49:24

women in the last year, about how much that

49:26

book has helped heal them from some of the

49:28

messages they got as teenagers. And so we're going

49:30

to be talking about some of those things in

49:33

the next few weeks as we celebrate. And

49:35

again, please check out the book forgiveness after

49:37

trauma. We're so grateful to our sponsors who

49:40

are helping get this message out. And if

49:42

you could support our sponsors, that

49:44

would make us really happy as well.

49:46

And this is a sponsor that is

49:48

worth supporting. Please read this book, because

49:51

we've heard such terrible teaching about

49:53

forgiveness in the church, about

49:56

how bitterness is wrong, you have to have

49:58

a good attitude if they apologize. have

50:00

to forgive and reconcile and that's not

50:02

what the Bible says. And you know

50:05

I really struggled with some of the emphasis

50:07

that I saw in the Bible about how

50:09

you're supposed to die to yourself and none

50:12

of your needs matter. And as

50:14

Susanna Griffith, who is a pastor and who

50:16

has taught at seminary, as she worked through

50:18

a lot of those Bible passages, I saw

50:20

them in such a rich way that I

50:22

hadn't seen before. Especially the John passage about

50:24

if you give for the things on earth

50:26

they're forgiven in heaven, if you retain sins

50:29

on earth they're retained and I could never

50:31

figure out what that retain means and it's

50:33

fascinating. I think the book is just going

50:35

to be so healing for people who have gone through you know

50:38

infidelity or porn use or

50:40

abuse or things from your parents, whatever it

50:42

is. But even if you haven't

50:44

gone through those things we need to learn

50:46

how to talk about this better so we're

50:49

not further retraumatizing people. Because that's what Susanna

50:51

found is that people in her church community

50:53

were continually retraumatizing her by telling her she

50:55

had to forgive. And what they meant by

50:57

that wasn't actually the biblical concept. So

51:00

let's pick up Forgiveness and Fertralment and let's do that

51:02

better. So thank you for joining

51:04

us the Bear Marriage podcast and we

51:06

will see you again next week. Bye bye.