0:00

This week on Basic, a special

0:02

bonus episode in which Doug and I discuss

0:04

our favorite basic cable television shows

0:06

of all

0:06

time. Happy new year,

0:09

everyone, and welcome to a special bonus

0:11

episode of Basic, the official podcast of

0:13

the unofficial history of cable television. I'm

0:15

Doug Herzog, a former TV executive.

0:18

And I'm Jen Cheney, TV critic at Vulture

0:20

in New York Magazine. Now we'll be back next

0:22

week with our first episode of season three,

0:24

but in Till then, we thought we'd spend a little time

0:26

looking back at some of our favorite basic

0:28

cable shows of all time. Since

0:30

cable is over forty years old, which

0:32

is very depressing, We thought we'd

0:35

do this by decade. So we're gonna start

0:37

with the eighties. Or now before

0:39

we start, Jenny just got ask it, did you make any

0:41

New Year's resolutions? Not

0:43

yet. III like to do them after the New Year

0:45

has started so that, like, I

0:47

can think about it a little bit more. Sure.

0:51

Get out of the crowd of

0:53

everybody doing it at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying

0:55

to be a renegade in my reservoir. Why 1 you want

0:57

your space? Yeah. IIII

0:59

always have the same one. I'm gonna always try and lose a little weight,

1:01

which, you know, I never do. But if I maintain, I feel

1:03

like it's a victory. And I

1:05

decided I decided maybe Maybe a little

1:08

less time on Twitter, so we'll see.

1:10

Probably smart move. Is

1:11

that because Elon Musk owns them?

1:15

I don't know. It just seems like It

1:17

just that's that's our that's our producer, Christian

1:20

Swain folks. But Yeah. And just I don't know.

1:22

I just feel like a a little I could spend a little less time on

1:24

Twitter. I just don't that I'm feeling Well, if the whole thing implodes I

1:27

think we could all spend a little If no longer exists,

1:29

that'll be a very easy resolution to keep.

1:33

Alright. So The eighties. Let's

1:35

go. The eighties. The eighties. Let's start. You wanna

1:37

start? Or you want me to start? How much you to start?

1:39

Alright. So here we go. We're gonna start our

1:42

best or favorite cable shows ever with

1:44

the nineteen eighties. So, you know, I'm older

1:46

than you, Jan. I go way back. I was

1:49

actually as we've discussed many times

1:51

in almost every episode I was working in cable

1:53

way back in the eighties. I started nineteen eighty one.

1:55

I was at cable news network

1:57

the day it launched. So that's

1:59

how old I am. And I

2:01

have to say this is an era of cable television

2:03

that is near and dear to my heart, a, you

2:05

know, as first and foremost,

2:07

a TV fan, which I always was,

2:10

b as somebody who, you know, kind of, worked in the industry

2:12

and 1, and maybe most important,

2:14

I just loved like that cheesy,

2:19

low rent. Let's make

2:21

it up as we go along pioneer

2:23

spirit that, you know, was part of cable

2:25

news is there was not a lot of original

2:27

programming on on cable way back when there

2:29

were some crappy live sports, there were

2:31

a lot of reruns, music

2:33

video, hose, Right? Twenty four hour

2:35

news, they were just trying to fill time. Right.

2:38

I'm going to say that my favorite

2:40

show from the early eighties was on the USA

2:42

network. It was

2:45

a production of a company

2:47

then known as Titan Sports,

2:49

later to be known as WWE Entertainment.

2:53

And I believe the WWE was which,

2:55

of course, is the wrestling outfit, might

2:58

have still been known as the WWF back

3:00

then. They might have been getting close

3:02

to Not the worldwide white Wildlight

3:04

Federation. No. No. So they

3:06

did a show they would do they did a show for a couple

3:09

years on the USA

3:11

Network called Tuesday Night Titans, and

3:13

it was a talk show. It was

3:15

a parody of the David Letterman Show

3:18

hosted by Vince McMahon in character.

3:20

Oh my god. And he would talk to

3:22

these wrestlers as

3:24

if it were like a real talk show and it

3:27

It was free wheeling. It was all

3:29

those things I said. It was cheesy. It was low

3:31

rent. It was make it up as they went along.

3:33

And I have to say I kinda loved it. And

3:36

I'm always looking for, like, old clips on

3:39

YouTube. It was the era of, like, Hulk hogan

3:41

and rowdy rowdy piper and the iron sheik

3:43

and sergeant slaughter. And he was real

3:45

Vince was really just starting to get this thing going

3:48

and it was kind of brilliant in

3:50

its own cheesy low rent way.

3:52

I have never seen that. I don't think. Maybe

3:54

I've seen clips from it and didn't realize where they came

3:56

from, but I have never seen

3:57

Is it available

3:58

on YouTube? I think there's some clips on YouTube yet.

4:01

Yeah. As our guest

4:03

fab five, Freddie said, everything

4:07

lives forever on you too.

4:08

Yeah. It's all there. So,

4:11

yes, I stomped you with that one. You stomped

4:13

me with that one. I'm at a slight disadvantage

4:15

in that I did not have cable in the

4:17

eighties because my parents refused to pay for it.

4:19

And I was very young. And

4:22

so my answer may sound like a cheat, but

4:24

it's really the only honest answer because

4:26

it's not a show, but my favorite cable

4:29

thing was MTV. Just

4:30

No. Of course. Yeah. You turn it on and watch whatever

4:32

that was out there. Whatever was That was

4:34

probably the only show that was ever on my

4:36

apartment to MTD. Yeah. And that's I

4:38

think everybody's, you know, a lot of

4:40

people's gateway into cable television.

4:43

Right? It was we've

4:45

talked about it a lot. We've got a great episode coming

4:47

up in season three with original Vijay

4:49

Alan Hunter where we do a deep dive into MTV.

4:52

But yeah, that was a lot

4:54

of people's, you know, gateway cable

4:56

drug. So I get that. As I

4:58

have said on here many times, because

5:01

I didn't have cable, I

5:03

would watch it on vacation. I would watch MTV

5:05

at friend's houses. My father

5:07

would he had coworkers who would record

5:09

things off of MTV for us,

5:12

which is how I got the the

5:14

hour when Andy and John Taylor guessed Vijay

5:16

because some coworker put

5:18

it on DCR. That's how we got all

5:20

of Live Aid. The

5:24

premier is pretty in pink. Someone recorded

5:26

that for me so I could see fee Weibo hosting

5:28

it. You know? Yeah. But I so I ingested for

5:30

somebody who didn't have cable, I ingested a phenomenal

5:32

amount of MTV. I did not I

5:34

didn't have cable when I was working in Los

5:36

Angeles. When seeing the launch, I did not have cable in

5:38

LA. It was not in my neighborhood. I didn't get cable till I

5:40

moved to New York for the MTV job Manhattan

5:42

had cable. And so that was the first time I'd

5:44

actually had basic cable in my

5:46

own house. I wanna give two two

5:48

other shout outs. One is to night

5:51

flight, which was also on the USA

5:53

Network -- Okay. -- which was a sort of a hodgepodge

5:55

of music videos and midnight

5:57

movies and weird stuff and rock and

5:59

roll stuff and used to love that. That was

6:01

on late nights, I think, Fridays and

6:03

Saturdays or maybe just one night. Mhmm. And then the

6:05

other thing which I loved was

6:09

big Mondays on ESPN in

6:11

which they had big east basketball, which

6:13

really went a long way towards establishing. Nice.

6:15

You know, not only not only big east basketball and

6:17

college basketball, which become a major

6:19

thing, but but ESPN obviously. Mhmm.

6:21

That was the days of, you know, Georgetown and

6:23

Saint John's and Villanova

6:27

and they were all winning national championships. You

6:29

could name every coach and all the players were there

6:31

four years. It was it was a it was a pretty

6:33

cool time for college basketball. Absolutely.

6:36

Yeah. Shout out to the ACC.

6:38

But anyway, let's move on to the nineties.

6:41

Alright. What do you got? Are you so so the

6:43

nineties, Gen

6:45

z or Gen x as

6:47

we

6:47

look for a few here. Gen z. Gen z.

6:50

Gen z. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

6:52

Sorry. Can I take that? You know? That means you're

6:54

twenty two

6:54

years old. Son's age all of a sudden. No.

6:56

You're you are you are you are our very own

6:58

gen x, so let's hear what you love

7:00

to the nineties. I had

7:02

a hard time coming up

7:04

with one. So I wrote

7:06

down three, which I guess is cheating.

7:10

1, we've had this gentleman on the that

7:13

created this on on the podcast. I

7:15

had to put Veeva's and Budhead. I really

7:17

Of course. It's still -- Of course. -- as

7:19

stupid as it is. Like, it's I mean, it doesn't. It

7:21

doesn't. The music

7:23

videos are super old that they were watching, but

7:25

I I still find it very funny. Brilliant.

7:29

Future guests of the podcast, South

7:32

Park. Yeah. Trade parker in

7:34

Gladstone. That show is

7:36

still going on. I do not watch it with

7:38

the same regularity that I did back in the day,

7:40

but when it first started, I mean and I

7:42

feel like that about I feel like this is about a lot

7:44

of the stuff that we talk about where

7:47

when I first saw South

7:47

Park, I was like, what in the hell?

7:50

How the hell you put that on television.

7:52

Right? We're we made an entire episode about

7:54

a piece of poop for Christmas. What is going

7:56

on? And so And I know the

7:58

same, you know, the same way I felt when I first watched

8:00

MTV, I'm like, what is this? Like,

8:03

you don't I don't have that same kind of

8:05

experience very often. With anything

8:07

on TV in that same way where it just felt

8:09

like, this is nuts. And I don't

8:11

know how this

8:11

happened. You know, you said you said last

8:13

week, Jen, on our on our bonus episode last

8:15

week that if some

8:18

of these shows that

8:20

some of these shows would have never gotten past HR

8:23

in twenty twenty. So

8:25

South Park and and Beers and

8:27

But Ed might be examples that

8:29

now they were both

8:31

brilliantly done and both really smart.

8:33

So they, you know, wasn't really just about being outrageous

8:36

and and and

8:38

bad words and that kind of

8:40

thing. Although

8:40

it 1 that a real

8:41

good social comp. Yeah. They've stood they

8:44

they had stood the test of time and

8:46

and they were groundbreaking, you know. And, you

8:48

know, and and sort of sent animation,

8:50

you know, forward

8:52

in a way that we're still feeling to this day, you

8:54

know, through everything on Fox, an

8:56

adult swim, and and everything you see on the streamers. Yeah.

8:58

I mean, it started with the Simpsons in the

9:00

same era. And then That's true. Yeah. And then

9:02

Bemis and Butthead in South not basic cable.

9:04

It's not basic cable, but I can I just have

9:06

to always put that into

9:08

perspective. Right. The thing for me

9:10

with South Park was just how

9:12

quickly they able to take something

9:14

topical and then have a show

9:16

about

9:16

it, like a week later. And you're like, how

9:18

the how the how do you do that with animation? We're

9:20

we're gonna hear from Matt and Train season three, and they will they

9:23

will tell us and tell the audience how they,

9:25

you know, almost produce the show in real

9:27

time like it's Saturday Night Live.

9:29

It's, you know, it's sort of done week to week. So that's

9:31

a a good great conversation

9:33

that's coming up for us. So for me, the

9:35

nineties, you know, of course, was at MTV and

9:37

then Comedy Central later in in the decade.

9:39

So as sort of right in the middle of it.

9:41

But, you know, I I was raising a young

9:43

family. And my my

9:45

sons were little boys back then in

9:47

the nineties and watched a lot

9:49

of kids program with them. And I have to

9:51

say one of my favorite, first of all, shout out

9:53

to rugrats and Red and Stimpy and all those

9:55

shows on the accordion. Even Doug.

9:57

They were they were really great. Sure. If you could keep

9:59

watching Ron and Stimpy, to be honest with you. But Probably

10:01

not. I'd like to win parent of the

10:03

year.

10:12

My favorite kids and family show

10:14

was something called the Adventures of Pete and Pete.

10:16

Oh, nice. Which was on Nickelodeon, which

10:18

was a really cool show

10:21

about these two kids named Pete and Pete. It

10:23

had a lot of heart. It had a lot of really

10:25

cool directors who participated

10:27

in a lot of guys who made music videos or a

10:29

lot of people who made music videos. They would have occasional

10:32

rock stars, Iggy pop, I

10:34

think, was on an episode 1. You

10:36

know, so you never never knew what you're saying. It was

10:38

a really sweet cool funny

10:41

show. And I

10:43

I love to watch it with I I love to watch it with

10:45

the boys. And, you know, even years

10:47

after, you know, we we dig back every once

10:49

a while and watching episode Pete Pete Pete

10:51

Pete. I do wanna give one brief shout

10:53

out to one other show that started in the nineties

10:55

that no one has mentioned so far when

10:57

we've asked a favorite show from our guests

11:00

behind the music. Oh. When

11:02

behind the music started -- Yeah. -- I

11:04

loved that show. Can you get enough

11:06

of it? Yeah. And I mean, because it was doing

11:08

something that at the time wasn't really

11:10

being done, which is going back and

11:12

finding sometimes it was bands or

11:14

artists were very well known, sometimes

11:16

not, and telling the backstory of how,

11:18

of course, everything inevitably went wrong

11:20

or the obstacles they had to

11:22

overcome. And that was at a

11:24

time when I feel like docu series were

11:26

not huge on

11:28

television in general, and I feel like behind the music

11:30

started to push that forward a little bit.

11:32

I think that's right. I think that's absolutely right.

11:35

And and and a very particular way of

11:37

storytelling as well -- Mhmm. -- you know,

11:39

that would sort of drag you along to to

11:41

the to the sad ending. Can you

11:43

remember? Every Rock

11:45

band is the same. Can you remember who was

11:47

the subject of the very first episode of Behind

11:49

the Music? Now that I don't know.

11:51

Okay. She's got us here.

11:53

Milley vanilla. Yes.

11:55

Oh, wow. There you go.

11:57

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's that's that

11:59

actually rings right. I mean, it's a sad

12:01

sad story.

12:05

For the nineties, I have special shout outs to

12:07

ESPN Sports Center, Dan Patrick, and Keith

12:09

Overman, Dan Patrick, who has been a guest

12:11

here, highly influential show.

12:13

And Really cool

12:16

show. Start on

12:18

cartoon network, and I think ultimately went to a

12:20

Adult Swim Space Coast,

12:22

to come? Yes. I had that down too. I loved Space

12:24

Coast. I watched it in real time every Friday

12:26

night. That was a really, really cool show. Speaking

12:28

of rock stars on on shows. Alright.

12:30

Anyway, heading into the two thousands

12:33

of the millennium, you

12:36

know, we're gonna find a

12:38

way to talk about this show. Hopefully, in

12:40

season three, we have not yet done an

12:42

episode dedicated to it. I

12:44

gotta go mad men. I

12:46

just No. It's mine as well. Oh, really?

12:49

Yes. I mean, it's banned. And

12:51

I will I will triple that. It

12:53

started in that and it continued it ended in

12:55

twenty fifteen. Technically, it kind of has a foot in each

12:57

in two decades, but but it started then, so

12:59

I I counted as two thousands. And Yeah. Me

13:01

too. I

13:01

missed that show every single day of

13:04

my

13:04

life. I I still think it's one of the best television shows

13:06

ever. So so so given that fact that we both

13:08

agreed, do you have a second

13:10

choice, Jen? Do you have a a runner-up? The

13:12

other one that I wrote down was The Daily Show.

13:15

Oh, wow. Yeah.

13:16

John Stewart era when

13:18

Bush was president. But we have gotten away

13:21

getting through the bush. Yeah. I mean, it was. It was

13:23

sustenance. It was like, I have to

13:25

watch this every night to maintain my sanity.

13:28

It was like I'd been prescribed it, but I also enjoyed

13:30

it. Right. I think that's right. And I did that does

13:32

not make my list as, you know, I was I

13:34

sort of just qualify myself,

13:36

but you know, shows that I was a really

13:38

big fan of in that

13:41

era. Another Comedy Central show,

13:43

Chappell show. Oh, story. And I was

13:45

not at I was not at Comedy Central when when the

13:47

Sherpa show started and got green lit.

13:49

And then I was You were there when it ended.

13:51

I was there. And we told

13:53

that

13:53

story. think you're part of the process

13:56

of

13:56

ending ending ending and the other I don't know

13:58

about that. And the other I didn't go

14:00

to Africa. I didn't leave 1 cent.

14:02

And then the other the other

14:05

show I was a huge fan of it. I think it's like a

14:07

little underrated and people don't talk about

14:09

anymore, although we did have star as a

14:11

guest is RescueMe and Dennis

14:13

Leary. Mhmm. As a as a big

14:15

RescueMe fan. I just I I love that show. I thought

14:17

it that was a great run. A lot of a

14:19

great storytelling and drama and a lot of

14:21

great black and dark comedy, you

14:23

know. Definitely.

14:23

Is it fair to say that the two thousand

14:26

or or when basic cable

14:28

began to have premium shows.

14:30

Yes.

14:30

Yes. Because I don't think that occurred. Well, yeah. And

14:32

and I think that and definitely didn't occur in

14:34

the Honestly, the hit the

14:36

history is if we're really going

14:38

back started with the

14:40

shield on FX in, like,

14:42

two thousand and four, And

14:44

then I was at USA Network that we put

14:46

on monk. I don't know if that's considered, you

14:49

know, like, in the same although it did

14:51

win, you know, some MEs in in golden gloves

14:53

and things like that. But Those were, like, the first

14:55

two sort of And

14:57

Niptuck. Scripps and Niptuck

14:59

Nick Niptuck was right around that

15:01

time. And, yeah, and then all of a sudden,

15:03

you know, basic cable after

15:05

years and years and years of really not being able

15:07

to afford it or attract an audience for these

15:09

things, began to do

15:11

these sort of premium scripted

15:13

shows and, you know, again, leading all the way up to

15:15

Madden and breaking bad

15:17

and walking tall and now

15:19

yellowstone and everything else. I mean, walking dead.

15:21

Walking

15:21

dead. Walking dead. Walking dead. Walking dead.

15:24

That was at the seventies. That's

15:26

the seventies. Speaking of No. Is

15:28

the two thousands the golden age? I

15:30

I that would, I guess, be the golden age. I think

15:32

it was the twenty times

15:33

personally. Well, love you think it was Okay. Alright. So make

15:35

make your case, Jen. I

15:38

just think that in terms of the basic cable doing

15:41

prestige drama, I mean, you still had

15:43

mad men I can't remember when did breaking

15:45

bad start? Is it it might have started at the

15:47

end of the two thousands, but it was it

15:49

was doing it was it ended

15:51

its run after mad men

15:53

did. And then two shows

15:55

that I singled out on my list that I

15:57

think are just absolutely outstanding.

15:59

One is the Americans, on FX.

16:01

That's another show that I miss every single

16:03

day. Carrie

16:05

Russell and Matthew Rees were just so fantastic

16:07

together on that show. A

16:10

spies. And it's it's the rare show that

16:12

is set in the eighties and it

16:14

feels absolutely

16:16

period accurate. Like, not someone playing

16:18

at, like, This is actually an eighties party

16:20

and not what the eighties were like, but it feels

16:23

and, I mean, down to the references, like, it

16:25

takes place in DC, which is where I'm

16:27

from. And the

16:29

June Re ad that used to famously play on TV

16:31

is in an episode of the Americans, like I

16:33

my head exploded when that happened.

16:36

And then my other one, which is an AMC show, that

16:38

I feel like not enough people have watched, halt

16:40

and catch fire. We watch that during

16:42

COVID. Yeah. It's such a terrific terrific

16:44

show. Yeah. Oh, well, another

16:46

show, Greenlit by

16:49

my old MTV Buddy Joel Stilerman.

16:51

And I you know, on top of my list was

16:53

Walking Dead, which is which was

16:55

the show that Joe brought to

16:57

AMC and had huge success with. We talked to

16:59

Gail and heard this

17:02

past season about The Walking Dead. And it was it was just

17:04

a giant show. I'm not a genre guy. I'm not a

17:06

zombie guy. I'm not a horror guy. But

17:08

I stuck with that show for I don't know how many seasons

17:10

did it run? Eight hundred and seven.

17:12

Yeah. I think I stuck with about eight hundred and

17:14

5III bail at some point. But but III

17:17

did watch it for a long time. I thought it was

17:19

great and super fun and and came

17:21

out of nowhere. Other, you

17:23

know, sort of honorable mentions for me would be Atlanta. Oh,

17:26

for sure. Search party. Oh,

17:28

I love search party. Yeah. And a

17:30

show that I think kind of

17:33

hearkens back to what I loved about

17:35

the beginning of cable in Tuesday night Titans, all

17:37

that kind of stuff is the NBA

17:40

on TNT. I I

17:42

could watch Charles Barclay and Shaquille

17:44

O'Neil and Kenny Smith

17:46

do what they do,

17:49

you know, every night if they woulded late

17:51

night. I just think they're hilarious. They have

17:53

unbelievable chemistry. It's great fun and it's kind of

17:55

freewheeling and reminds me of the glory days

17:57

of cable. Heading

18:01

into the 2020s, have

18:04

you seen anything that you think we'll

18:06

be talking about in ten years?

18:08

I think so. I mean, I think

18:10

it's very early in its run,

18:12

but the show that I picked is a top

18:14

show of this year. Is

18:17

not basic cable, unfortunately, but it's

18:19

it's Apple TV show, severance.

18:21

If they continue to to produce as high

18:23

quality as they did in the first season, I think that could

18:25

potentially be an all timer. I

18:28

mean, Atlanta, which you mentioned, that just

18:30

ended. It kind of again spans a

18:32

couple different decades. Right. And I

18:34

think that's We're already talking

18:36

about it. I think we will be talking about that show

18:38

for a long time. God,

18:40

I don't even I mean, yeah, there

18:42

are so many, and it's just hard to

18:44

know, like, Like so much in TV, it's hard to

18:46

know what's really gonna stick. Well, here's what we

18:48

do here's what we do know. You and I will be

18:50

talking about basic cable television next week

18:52

for sure. Yes. So

18:54

come come hell her high water. Yes.

18:56

I can predict

18:57

that that is absolutely correct, and I know

18:59

I'm gonna be right. Alright. Well,

19:01

isn't isn't kinda interesting that a lot

19:03

of those big time shows have all kind

19:06

of ended, you know,

19:08

better call solves and did

19:11

Atlanta's ended, better

19:14

things has ended, just so many

19:16

of the And are they gonna

19:18

have the money to make more

19:21

prestige type of

19:23

content in basic cable? Or is that

19:26

just go to the streamers? Well, I

19:28

think right yeah. I think it goes to the streamers right now. I

19:30

think I think basic cable's probably out of the

19:32

Prestige drama business. Why would you put a

19:34

Prestige drama on platform only, you have the

19:36

opportunity to get to fifty percent of the

19:38

country. Yeah. But, I mean, there's no I still don't think

19:40

there's any reason not

19:42

to put something on cable and

19:44

on streaming, which is what a lot of, you

19:46

know, a lot of places do and try to,

19:48

like, get the benefits of both. Yep.

19:50

And that'll last, and as long as as long as cable

19:52

does. And like, you know, we talked about last week, you

19:54

know, these companies and these platforms

19:56

have got a lot to figure out.

19:58

In twenty twenty three and beyond. But I

20:01

could tell you this, you know, and I used to say this

20:03

all the time when I was in it. Like, TV's not going

20:05

away. It's only getting bigger.

20:07

There's more of it than ever, there's

20:09

better TV than ever, where we

20:11

watch it, how we watch it, that's

20:13

probably continues to evolve and we'll be

20:15

up the air. But TV is gonna be with

20:17

us, you know, for all time. And as

20:19

a working TV critic, while I don't want anyone to

20:21

lose their jobs, if there's like a liver loss

20:24

TV, I'm fine with that because it's

20:26

insane. Yeah. There's a lot. There's a lot. Well, look,

20:28

make sure to join us next week when we begin

20:30

season three of basic with brand new interviews

20:32

and guests like John Stewart, Matt Stone,

20:34

and Trey Parker from South Park, bravo's

20:37

Andy Cohn, Trevor Noah, weird al

20:39

yankovic. Jen's favorite,

20:41

John Taylor from Duran Duran,

20:43

FX Chairman, John Landgraf, and that's just the name

20:45

few. I still think the fact that we're getting John Taylor might

20:47

be an elaborate prank on me. We'll see. So

20:49

we'll have to find out. We'll see.

20:52

But happy New Year, everyone. And thanks,

20:54

Christian Swain, our executive producer for joining

20:56

us, and we will see you next time

20:59

on basics. Basic is

21:01

a Pantheon media production in partnership

21:03

with SiriusXM. Hosted by Jen

21:05

Cheney and Doug Herzog. Produced by

21:07

Christian Swain and Peter Ferrioli. Lindley

21:10

Ehrlich is our assistant producer. Sound

21:12

design and music by Jerry Daniels.

21:14

Mixed and mastered by Brian Slusher.

21:17

Recorded and edited by

21:19

Zach Schwisier. You can find basic

21:21

on Apple Podcasts, the

21:23

SiriusXM app, Pandora, Stitcher,

21:25

or wherever you like to listen. If

21:27

you like the show, please rate, review and

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share so other people can find

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us. Don't forget to follow the show so you

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