0:00

Academy Award nominee Carrie Mulligan and

0:02

Emmy nominee Zooey Kazan starring

0:04

Xi said as New York Times reporters Megan

0:06

Tuohy and Jodie Kantar who together broke

0:08

one of the most important stories in a generation,

0:11

a story that shattered decades of silence

0:13

around the subject of sexual assault in Hollywood.

0:15

and ignited a shift in American culture

0:18

that continues to this day. The film

0:20

CoStar's Oscar nominee Patricia Clarkson,

0:22

Emmy winner, Andre Brauer, and Tony winner

0:24

Jennifer Eli with Academy Award nominee

0:26

Samantha Morton. She said arrives

0:28

in theaters Friday.

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0:32

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It's on us. Visit b p dot com slash

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save to learn more. Today

0:46

on basic, Chelsea Handler.

0:49

I'm more comfortable in front of the camera than I am

0:51

out of it. Like half the things I do

0:53

on camera, I probably wouldn't do it in a life

0:56

Everyone, I always think everyone's success happens

0:58

quickly because you just didn't hear about the person and

1:00

then you see them all stop.

1:01

But I did

1:03

stand up like seven or eight years before

1:05

anything started gaining traction. And

1:07

then I started getting little things and everything

1:09

would lead to something bigger. but it

1:11

was a grind because you're waiting tables

1:14

and you're doing stand up and you're just wondering

1:15

what if you have to wait tables for

1:17

the rest of your life.

1:18

I think I was doing that sketch show and the

1:21

sketch show wasn't performing well on e.

1:23

This was the man who became my boyfriend. He

1:25

was like, you should have your own nightly show and

1:27

the fact that we could make it thirty

1:28

minutes of fast fun and it was like it was

1:31

so easy for me to do and it was

1:33

just an instant success. And so

1:35

I never even thought twice about it. Yeah. It was

1:37

like in a frat house. All we did is play practical

1:39

jokes on each other. From, like, the minute

1:41

I got to work, I would just start sending out emails

1:44

from different people's accounts. I mean, we

1:46

did things that we would be arrested for today.

1:48

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Basic,

1:50

the official podcast of the unofficial history of

1:52

cable television. I'm Doug Herzog, former

1:54

TV executive, and like our guest today.

1:56

I'm from Jersey. And

1:57

I'm Jen Cheney, TV critic for Vulture

1:59

in New York Magazine, and I'm not from

2:02

New Jersey, but I have visited New

2:03

Jersey. It's a lovely place, Jen. Our guest

2:05

today is a top stand up comedian, a bestselling

2:08

author, and hosted one of Cable's most memorable

2:10

talk shows. Chelsea

2:11

handler hosted her own talk show, Chelsea

2:13

Lately on e competing with the high

2:15

profile late night boys club of John Stewart,

2:17

Conan O'Brien, and Steven Colbert. and

2:19

more than holding her own.

2:20

So we'll talk to Chelsea about that and much

2:23

more, but just a quick disclaimer before we

2:25

get started. When we recorded this

2:27

with Chelsea, She was with her boyfriend at the time,

2:29

Joe Coy. They have since parted ways.

2:31

So if you hear a reference to Joe, no,

2:33

they're not back together at least as far as we

2:35

know.

2:36

and hang around after when Doug and I

2:38

will gossip about everything we talked about with

2:40

Chelsea.

2:44

Welcome

2:44

Chelsea Hamler to Basic. Hi.

2:47

Welcome. Thank you. for

2:49

thanks for joining us today. So Chelsea, As

2:52

you know, we

2:53

talk about basic cable TV here. So

2:55

the first question we ask everybody is,

2:58

do you remember when you got cable television?

3:01

basic cable?

3:02

Yeah. It's kind of a vague

3:04

Did you watch a lot of TV when you're grown up?

3:06

I did. I did watch a lot of TV.

3:09

but

3:09

I watched a lot of, like, three company reruns.

3:12

Right. And by that time, I don't know when did

3:14

basic cable come on the scene?

3:15

Dawn of the eighties is I like to say. You know, MTV

3:17

started a couple of years. So I

3:19

think once I started, it was happening

3:21

because I was six. And I was born

3:23

in nineteen seventy five. a basic cable was

3:25

on the

3:25

scene before I got there. So what you're saying is

3:28

you're a lot younger than me.

3:29

Yeah. Well, who isn't that?

3:30

Exactly.

3:34

Chelsea, this is what a white guy unemployed white guy

3:36

do for living now. Podcasts? Podcasts. Exactly.

3:38

That's where we That's what everyone does for a living

3:40

now is

3:40

podcast. my dog has a podcast.

3:42

I know you even

3:44

probably as more listeners than us. So

3:45

Chelsea, you grew up in New Jersey, and then I believe

3:48

you moved to LA when you were, like, nineteen

3:50

or so. Is that right? Yes. I did. When

3:52

you moved to California, did you have, like,

3:54

a specific plan about what you were going to do?

3:56

It was just, like, basically, to become really

3:58

successful full. Like, that was my goal. There was no

4:00

specificity. I just was like, I'm gonna

4:02

just go and express myself.

4:05

And I think I'll be doing the world favorite.

4:07

Like, I had that kind of misplaced confidence,

4:09

and I believed it. So, like, I think if you

4:11

really believe in yourself that much, it just becomes

4:14

your reality. You know? I didn't know how I

4:16

was gonna do that, but once I found stand

4:18

up, like, you know, somebody suggested

4:20

that I do it, it wasn't even my own idea.

4:22

I realized, oh, what an opportunity? Like,

4:24

you write your own material. You don't have to say

4:26

anything. You don't feel like saying. You're just

4:28

expressing your opinions on things.

4:31

how great is that? And you're on stage with a

4:33

microphone, and no one else is on

4:35

stage with you. That was just like,

4:37

oh, well, that seems like the right medium

4:39

for me. Mhmm. But did you have any idea, like, how to

4:41

even write stand up? Like, how do you even start

4:43

doing that if you've never done it before? I think

4:45

I was doing stand up for a long time before

4:47

I did stand up. I was going to

4:49

dinner parties and, you know, being the person who had all

4:51

the funny stories and I knew when, like, there was

4:53

a punch line and basically standup

4:55

is either joke writing or storytelling. So

4:57

if you're good at either one of those things, then

4:59

you're gonna be good at stand up most likely. And

5:01

if you're good at both of those things, then you'll

5:03

be successful as well. because, you

5:05

know, it is observational. You're choosing

5:07

the lens within which you see things.

5:10

So it's an opportunity to

5:12

be as, like, true to yourself as possible.

5:14

Mhmm. What was the stand up scene like in LA

5:16

when you jumped in? And and what was it like for

5:18

a young woman like yourself that time coming

5:20

literally straight out of the Jersey suburbs. It

5:22

was fine. You

5:22

know, I was, again, like, very arrogant.

5:25

Like, I really believe, like, I have something

5:27

to say, you know, so anyone

5:29

that was done on my team, I didn't care. I

5:31

didn't care that. It was just didn't they didn't

5:33

matter that. You know? And if there were people

5:35

that didn't like me or were my fans, they

5:37

also didn't matter. Like, I just focused on

5:39

the people I did have as fans and just

5:41

kind of like being really authentic no matter

5:43

what anyone said, like, just be authentic

5:45

and be yourself that's what people respond

5:46

to. She's had a curiosity. Would you like an

5:48

improv person or a comedy store person

5:51

or the Improv. Last actor took

5:52

a while to get into, but Improv took a while

5:55

to get into So comedy stores where I

5:57

started started. And then I kinda transitioned over

5:59

to

5:59

the improv more.

5:59

And now if I go and I go to the laugh

6:02

factory with Joe because he loves it there.

6:04

But Yeah. When I was coming

6:06

up, there wasn't a lot of women. There

6:08

was, like, Sarah Silverman, you know, Kathy Griffin,

6:10

and, like, some other people. Not many.

6:12

yeah, that wasn't a lot, but it didn't

6:14

feel like I I wouldn't say I felt

6:16

like I was in a boys club. Like, I knew I was

6:18

in a boys club, but I just, like, I

6:20

didn't focus on that part. I didn't hang out

6:22

at the comedy store or hang out

6:24

with a bunch of male comics a lot. I

6:26

had guys that are close friends of mine that are

6:28

comics But as a whole, there's a

6:30

pretty depressing group of people. You know what I

6:32

mean? Comics can be pretty dark.

6:34

So it's like I was like,

6:36

yeah, no problem. I don't wanna sit here and smoke cigarettes.

6:38

You know, they didn't want me there. And I was like, okay.

6:40

Sure. So it was that kind

6:42

of vibe. And girls weren't looking out

6:44

for each other in the way that they should have been.

6:46

You know, we were in such a boys club that you

6:48

end up thinking you're the only female

6:50

that can survive or succeed, and

6:53

So you end up not being generous, and

6:55

that's a real, like, unfortunate thing as that's

6:57

the a number one rule is to help

6:59

other women. Yeah. So when you're in an environment

7:01

like that, it doesn't bring out the best and people. You were

7:03

doing some acting as well. You got on a

7:05

show on oxygen called girls behaving badly.

7:08

Now did that feel like a big break at the

7:10

time? Or what did that feel like when you got that

7:12

show? It felt like a cable show, like a

7:14

really cheap cable show. Like, even

7:16

getting it, you were like, oh, this is really cheap.

7:18

You know what I mean? It

7:20

was fun. We lads so much fun. I

7:22

mean, I laughed so hard on that set. Like, I think

7:24

I'd peed in my pants twice in the middle

7:26

of a scene because we were laughing so hard.

7:28

it was so ridiculous. And it was

7:30

a great tee up for my Chelsea Lately

7:32

show because that was also more of

7:34

the same, but in a more organized manner,

7:36

you know, with a budget. Mhmm. Yeah. girl's

7:38

baby ballet was like a hidden camera show and there's

7:40

four other girls and myself. And we

7:42

would just basically play really stupid pranks

7:44

on people and try to get them to believe

7:46

that, like, I was a makeup artist

7:49

for newborn babies, like the minute they're

7:51

born, I would do their makeup. You know,

7:53

stupid stuff like that, or I'd be at pregnant at

7:55

a bar, ordering shots, waiting for someone to say

7:57

something to me. Stuff like that. It was

7:59

really fun. It was a very big

8:01

learning opportunity because

8:03

it was four women, you know, and not everybody

8:05

got along great. So it was

8:07

like, whoa, you don't ever wanna

8:09

be in a dynamic like that for

8:11

your long term job. that is not

8:13

healthy for any person to be in a

8:15

situation where they don't like someone they're working with.

8:17

A couple of questions. I should know the answer to this by

8:19

the way. Was oxygen the Oprah network?

8:21

Yes. Did you ever meet Oprah? I've met

8:23

Oprah. She interviewed me

8:24

once at my house. No. Honestly, my

8:26

long term memory

8:27

is questionable. I keep

8:30

telling stories. It's been like, that's not what happened. I'm

8:32

like, oh, Oopsie doodle. Yeah. That's been

8:34

my experience doing this show. I was like, I don't remember eighty

8:36

from the eighties. So being

8:38

on oxygen and on girls behaving badly, and then

8:40

you were also doing pretty quickly some stuff

8:42

for e, for tonight showed you were

8:44

getting a lot of TV experience pretty

8:46

quickly. Were you immediately

8:48

comfortable in front of the camera having come

8:50

from just being a kind of a

8:52

newest standup Well, I'm more comfortable in

8:54

front of the camera than I am out of it. Like,

8:56

half the things I do on camera,

8:58

I probably wouldn't do in real life personally.

9:00

It's just a good avenue for

9:02

exploration. It wasn't,

9:04

like, overnight. Everyone, I always

9:06

think everyone's success, like, happens

9:08

quickly because you just didn't hear about the person and then you

9:10

see them nonstop. But

9:12

I did stand up for, like, seven or eight

9:14

years before anything started, like, gaining

9:16

traction. and then I started getting little

9:18

things and everything would lead to something

9:20

bigger. But it was a grind

9:22

because you're waiting tables and you're doing

9:24

standup and you're just wondering, what if you

9:26

have to wait tables

9:27

for the rest of your life? How long do

9:29

you felt it took you to sort of get to that

9:31

Chelsea voice and point of view that we

9:33

all know and love today? Like, how

9:35

long it take you to find that? I don't

9:36

know. I mean, that voice is always in me. I guess

9:39

you just refine it and refine it as you

9:41

age. Right? You get better at speaking

9:43

and better

9:43

at expressing yourself. So

9:46

you always have your own voice, but you just

9:48

hopefully become more elegant, not

9:50

less. That could go either way

9:52

though. Academy

9:53

Award nominee Carrie Mulligan and Emmy nominee

9:55

Zoe Kazan starring Xi said

9:57

as New York Times reporters Megan Tuohy

9:59

and Jodie Kantor who together broke one of

10:01

the most important stories in a

10:03

generation, a story that shattered decades

10:05

of silence around the subject of sexual

10:07

assault in Hollywood, ignited

10:09

a shift in American culture that

10:11

continues to this day. The film

10:13

CoStar's Oscar nominee Patricia Clarkson,

10:15

Emmy winner, Andre Brauer, and Tony winner,

10:17

Jennifer Eli, with Academy

10:19

Award nominee Samantha Morton. She

10:21

said arrives in theaters Friday.

10:23

When you sign up for

10:25

BPME rewards, you can get five

10:27

cents off every gallon of gas every

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10:31

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10:43

So you were your sketch show at e first,

10:45

and then the opportunity to

10:47

do Chelsea lately came along. Did

10:49

you ever think about trying to do, like,

10:51

a late night talk show? Was that a form

10:53

that was interesting to you, or was it just somebody

10:55

suggested it to you? And then it was like, oh, I guess

10:57

I'll do that. I don't know. Yeah. I think

10:59

I had thought about it. It wasn't a

11:01

necessary

11:01

goal of mine. I'm like, oh, I have to do

11:04

this. But I had thought about it. Like, oh,

11:06

I like to run a conversation I know how to

11:08

listen to people and I know how to be in the moment

11:10

and be engaging. I'm like, that sounds

11:12

fun. I I think I was doing that

11:14

sketch show and the sketch show wasn't performing

11:16

well on e, and they were like, we think you would

11:18

be better on a nightly show. This

11:20

was the man who became my boyfriend.

11:22

And he was like, you should have your own nightly

11:24

show. And I was like, how would that work? And

11:26

the fact that we could make a thirty minutes of fast

11:28

and fun, and it was like, it was so easy for

11:30

me to do. It was just

11:32

an instant success. And so I

11:34

never even thought twice about it. I mean, even when I

11:36

was doing it, I was like, oh, this is gonna be awesome.

11:38

Mhmm. And everyone's gonna love it and

11:41

it was. It was just, you know, a total cultural

11:43

moment. I wish I had your confidence. You were just

11:45

so

11:45

sure. Yeah. Yeah. And you look like you were having a great

11:47

time every night on that show. Like, if you having

11:49

friends over? Yeah. I was,

11:50

like, being in a frat house. All we did is play

11:52

practical jokes on each other. From, like,

11:54

the minute I got to work, I would just start sending

11:56

out emails from different people's accounts

11:58

I mean, we did things that we would be arrested for

12:00

today. So but to answer your question, it was

12:02

very easy to be on camera. That's very easy for me.

12:04

I I'm not self conscious of that way.

12:06

Big commitment. too. Right? To be

12:08

doing it five nights a week, probably forty

12:11

plus weeks a year. Right? Oh, yeah. It

12:12

was ridiculous. So you're just, like, chained to

12:14

Los Angeles, which is, you know, not the worst thing in

12:16

the world, but I like to travel, and I like to

12:18

bounce around. And I think I once sent in

12:20

a cardboard cutout of myself to host

12:23

the show, and they did that one day because I wouldn't

12:25

come back from Hawaii. I was like, I'm too

12:27

happy right now. I can't come back. You have to

12:29

get a cardboard cut out. So they made one.

12:31

And they're like, okay. We'll give you one more day.

12:33

And I just was like, oh god.

12:35

Yeah. After seven or eight years of that

12:37

and doing book tours, like, I did four

12:39

books in that time, which

12:41

led to book tours, which is a stand up

12:43

tour, which is on top of the four nights a

12:45

week. So I burned out pretty quickly well, not

12:47

pretty quickly. It took about seven years to burn

12:49

out on all of it. I was like, I'm

12:51

done. I need a vacation. And obviously,

12:53

on that show, you interviewed a lot of different

12:55

people. I'm wondering if you can remember

12:57

an interview that just went completely

12:59

south that didn't go how you wanted it to, and

13:01

then one that was amazing and great.

13:03

Tillis tequila was big at the time, and

13:05

she came on the show. And I I think she fell

13:07

asleep during the interview, or

13:09

She was on something. It said that was a disaster,

13:11

but I mean, not that much of a surprise at

13:13

the time. It was kind of like expected.

13:16

And then what's something that went really

13:18

well? I mean, Will Farrell and

13:20

Kevin Hart are pretty much the two

13:22

best interviews. they just are

13:24

so stupid, buddy. And they're

13:26

so easy to make fun of, and

13:28

they're just good sports. So

13:30

they're fun. Mhmm. I think those are the two

13:32

best interviews. I'm wondering, is it better

13:34

or more fun to interview comics because they

13:36

are improvisers and they can just roll whatever

13:38

you toss at them? Yeah. Yeah.

13:40

That's a good way to put it. I mean, most

13:42

comics can. Some comics can, actually. Mhmm. But,

13:44

yeah, that's a nice skill set. It's

13:46

to be able to improvise.

13:47

Mhmm. This was also what

13:50

turned out to be, like, the peak

13:52

time for, like, basic cable late night. So there was

13:54

you, there was John Stewart, there was

13:56

Colbert, there was Conan, was on

13:58

TBS, and you guys were all winning.

14:00

did you ever feel like you're in competition with those

14:02

guys? Or there wasn't something you or your staff

14:04

were thinking about on a daily basis?

14:05

Only because there was an Echelon, you

14:08

know, like a pecking order of

14:10

what shows you could do before you did other shows.

14:12

So that was annoying because if there wasn't their

14:14

competition, who cares if Santa Bullock was

14:16

gonna come on my show first or whatever,

14:18

So it was kind of like you had to

14:21

cultivate lots of relationships with

14:23

famous people to help service

14:25

your show. It was basically what it comes

14:27

down to that nobody wants anybody to go

14:29

first. So that that in that sense, it

14:31

felt like, well, are we are you guys really

14:33

worried about me? I'm on e. Like,

14:35

come on. I guess it's just

14:37

an exposure thing. But I know.

14:39

I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about, like, me

14:41

being one of the boys. Oh, I was just having a great

14:43

time. Mhmm. That's one of the good

14:45

things about doing a show like that. It's

14:47

available for everyone there to enjoy,

14:49

which just spreads good fun

14:51

vibes. Mhmm. I mean, even if you weren't

14:53

fixated on being the only woman in

14:55

this group, it must have felt good to

14:57

know that you're one of the few women who's ever

14:59

successfully had a show like that.

15:01

Still? Yeah. Totally. I think

15:03

of it that way now for sure. Mhmm.

15:05

And going back to the e of it all, were

15:07

they, like, super hands on

15:09

involved in your show, or did you pretty

15:11

much get to do the show you wanna do.

15:13

I had a

15:13

lot of authorship over everything. They didn't I

15:15

mean, they would argue with me about language and stuff,

15:18

you know, every afternoon. We get all the booths

15:20

to talk about what I could say, what had to

15:22

sleep, or if I said the word pussy

15:24

whistle, why I would have to bleep

15:26

pussy, but I could leave whistle.

15:28

like conversations like that, I'm

15:30

really good at arguing. So I I took a

15:32

lot of pride in that element and aspect

15:34

of things. But Ted Harbour was

15:36

very involved in the show. He's like

15:38

spearheaded the whole thing, but let me pick out

15:40

what we were gonna do, set

15:42

wise, and creative wise, all

15:44

our job was just to make it funny. That's all

15:46

they cared about. They're like, however you wanna do

15:48

it. After you left, you were

15:50

speaking at some event I think it was

15:52

Code Media, and you said something to

15:54

the effect of I'm smarter than that show was and I

15:56

wanna be doing a show that is smarter than I

15:58

am now. Do you still feel that

15:59

way about the

16:00

e show at the time I was just done

16:02

with the circular conversation of celebrities.

16:05

Mhmm. Alright. Enough already. Can we

16:07

talk about anything a little bit more important?

16:09

I just felt I was getting dumb. You know, I wasn't

16:11

challenging myself. You actually had to read

16:13

those magazines for that job.

16:15

Right. So you do

16:17

get dumber if you read those magazines.

16:19

Speaking

16:19

of not being dumb, you've written a

16:22

bunch of bestselling books. So

16:24

how did all that start for you and is writing

16:26

something that comes naturally? Given the amount of

16:28

books you have written, it seems like it might.

16:30

Yeah. I mean, I love writing. I mean, writing it all

16:32

bleeds into each other. You know, the

16:34

standup and the writing of the books

16:36

and all of it goes together.

16:39

right now I have my last book. Life will be the

16:41

death of me. We have it at peacock where we're

16:43

writing a script for it. That's been a

16:45

stand up special. It's been a book. It's now

16:47

gonna be a TV show. I like

16:49

things that aren't just one dimensional.

16:51

It lasts for a while. I've taken

16:53

on the road and then I turn it into a

16:55

standup act, you know, and then I take the special

16:57

And so I like the fact that everything

16:59

bleeds into everything. And writing, I think, is

17:01

at the base of all of that. You know, when

17:03

you're comedian, you're writing your jokes, whether you

17:05

write them down or you're a writer.

17:08

Jokoi doesn't write anything down

17:10

ever. I go, are you serious? I had

17:12

like nine pages of notes when I started

17:14

my new hour. that I would just at.

17:16

I bring on stage for the first month,

17:18

and he doesn't ever write anything down.

17:20

I mean, what free and

17:22

see

17:22

are you on? That's gonna be tough when you want to write his book, though,

17:24

I'll tell you that. That's so interesting. Wow.

17:27

Exactly. Just to fill people in

17:28

who may not be in the know, Joe

17:31

is your boyfriend who also was on your show

17:33

as a contributor? Yeah. Absolutely. Yes.

17:35

I'm curious. Do you guys, like, bounce

17:37

comedy ideas off of each other? Like,

17:39

that approach obviously you just described of not

17:41

writing things down is not your way of doing

17:43

things, but are there things that you pick up from him and

17:45

vice versa that you kind of used to

17:48

develop your comedy? Yeah. Totally. I mean,

17:50

we're both in the same world. So, like, he just

17:52

shot his special. I'm about to shoot my

17:54

special. He's directing my special. So

17:56

he's -- Oh, wow. -- definitely he's

17:58

got an eye for that sort of thing. I do

17:59

not. I don't like dealing with any of

18:02

those issues. I just wanna go out

18:04

and perform. Somebody can pick it all out

18:06

and just make sure it's

18:07

this tone of thinking or

18:09

this tone of color. But yeah.

18:12

No. We bounced off of each other all the time.

18:14

I mean, we're kind of like turning into this little

18:16

double

18:16

So I'm sure we're gonna end up touring together

18:18

because we just wanna be together all

18:20

the time. And it's like, he packed an

18:22

iceberg. Like, he melted me.

18:23

So it's People are down with

18:26

it. They wanna hear about it. It's so

18:28

cute. Like, people are so inspired. They're like, oh my

18:30

god, a few fella. It can happen

18:32

to anyone. I like it. You and

18:34

Judd's gonna be, like, Beyonce and j

18:36

z's tour except for Calvin. Exactly. Now

18:38

we just have to have a baby. That's gonna

18:40

be tough, Doug. because I'm forty seven

18:42

years old. Never say never, Chelsea. Never say

18:44

never. Are you working on a a new book at

18:46

this point?

18:46

Yes. I am. It's called the Filipino in

18:48

me, a love story. And what's

18:50

it about?

18:50

Sounds like better than Joe Koi.

18:52

Yeah. It's about my relationship with

18:55

Joe Koi and falling in love and,

18:57

you know, just life, all

18:59

of the good stuff. That's great. So I'm

19:01

curious, obviously, after you left e, you

19:03

went to Netflix and did a show for

19:05

them, and other things for

19:07

them too, did you

19:08

feel like a difference between

19:10

working in basic cable and then going to Netflix? Was

19:12

it a culture shock? Or was it really just doing the same

19:14

kind of thing, but in a different format?

19:16

it was very new. You know, I went

19:18

to Netflix before anybody did. And

19:21

it was just new, brand

19:23

new. So In terms of the talk show

19:25

experience, if you could say more of a corporate

19:26

environment than universally, it would

19:29

felt even more corporate. Really? It just

19:31

felt so new it felt slightly

19:33

sterile because of the newness, you

19:35

know. Whereas e was something that was nicely

19:37

worn in. That's

19:39

interesting. I

19:40

watched Hello Privilege.

19:41

It's me, Chelsea, the documentary

19:43

you did about White Privilege. Yeah. And I'm

19:45

wondering what you went through in terms of

19:47

deciding to specifically approach that

19:49

subject matter because that came out in twenty nineteen.

19:52

And honestly, the conversation around

19:54

white privilege has only gotten louder

19:56

and more contentious. Since

19:58

then, I feel like, but you were really

19:59

talking about it even before George Floyd and

20:02

conversation got louder. So why did you wanna

20:04

explore that? because I just thought nobody was

20:06

gonna have the balls to do it. Mhmm.

20:07

I just thought, you know, this is our

20:09

white person's problems. So I

20:12

thought, why not just start talking to white people as a

20:14

white

20:14

person. Because I was as curious as anyone

20:17

else's about what

20:17

the definition really is,

20:19

it's a spectrum white privilege. It's not just

20:22

one thing or one family. Like, I always

20:24

thought white privilege meant like the Rockefeller

20:26

family or you know, some legacy

20:28

family who's been around for,

20:30

you know, centuries and has

20:32

old money. Like, I thought that was

20:34

way privilege. Way privilege it

20:36

turns out that it's a daily occurrence every minute,

20:38

you know, you're experiencing privilege

20:40

in this country and most of the world

20:42

when you're white. So I

20:45

wanted to learn with my audience. I knew my

20:47

audience was like come with me, you know, because I

20:49

have people who wanna think and get smarter too.

20:52

And so I just thought, yeah, I

20:54

thought no one's gonna ever do this. I should do

20:56

it. And no, everyone told me, you know, of course,

20:58

not too, but everyone always tells me to

21:00

do anything.

21:00

They were just like, oh, you're gonna get

21:02

so

21:02

much backlash. I'm like, good. Who cares?

21:04

Like, I'm curious. I wanna be better

21:07

at being a human being. much

21:09

backlash can I get, you know? Mhmm.

21:11

Eventually, you can reason with people and they

21:13

realize it's not that big of a deal.

21:15

It's good to have the conversations

21:17

that ignite other conversations Sure. What

21:19

what kind of feedback did you get? I got

21:21

a lot of positive feedback, actually. I mean, some

21:23

people, like, there was a girl in the film even who

21:25

was, like, this is your privilege that you get to

21:27

make a documentary. Right. I could have made a but

21:30

I also could have made a documentary about anything in

21:32

the world, and I chose that because I want to

21:34

do that. You know, I wanna learn, I wanna

21:36

get better, this was an ego

21:38

project. I would go do a documentary

21:40

about my dog and how much they don't respect

21:42

me. But it was very

21:45

illuminating, and I was so glad I did it. I made a

21:47

lot of really good long term friends from

21:49

making that movie -- Oh, cool. -- people that I

21:51

didn't know and I wouldn't have known had

21:53

I not made that movie. there's a of women Orange

21:55

County that you interviewed. Yeah. I'm not friends

21:57

with

21:57

them.

21:59

Did you ever talk to them after the documentary

22:02

came out? or hear from them or

22:04

anything? No. We were supposed to connect about doing

22:06

some, like, local funding for something, but

22:08

no. I don't think we did.

22:10

Okay. Yeah. I was just curious how

22:12

they they felt about it because I'm sure they're exactly the same. Yeah.

22:14

I'm I would imagine so. But

22:16

maybe not. Maybe not. I mean, not everybody

22:18

stays exactly the same. Yeah.

22:21

never say never. The world is an increasingly

22:24

complicated place. Why did something happen? I'm

22:26

sure something has happened in the past

22:28

thirty seconds. But comedy is a pretty

22:30

complicated world these days. A lot more complicated, I

22:32

think, but it used to be. I'd love to know what you

22:34

think about that just in terms of

22:36

sort of the specter of canceled culture and, you know, whether it's

22:38

Dave Chappell and people losing their minds over what

22:40

he says on a Netflix special or more

22:42

recently Ricky Gervais Is that something you

22:45

think about as you are hitting the stage

22:47

these days? I

22:47

don't think there's any need to,

22:50

like, talk about any marginalized group

22:52

at

22:52

all in any way. We can all be more

22:54

clever than that. That's good to

22:56

have to be a little bit sharper. All what

22:58

people are saying

22:59

is to not be racist or

23:01

sexy, or discriminatory. That's not that tall of

23:03

an order, and I don't have to think hard about

23:05

that. On stage, it's a pretty

23:08

easy pivot.

23:09

Academy Award nominee Carrie Mulligan and Emmy

23:12

nominee Zoe Kazan starring Xi

23:14

said as New York Times reporters Megan

23:16

Tuohy and Jodie Kantor who together broke one of the

23:18

most important stories in a

23:20

generation, a story that shattered decades of

23:22

silence around the subject of sexual

23:24

assault in Hollywood and

23:26

ignited a shift in American culture

23:28

that continues to this day. The film

23:30

CoStar's Oscar nominee Patricia

23:32

Clarkson, Emmy winner, Andre Brauer, and Tony

23:34

winner Jennifer Eley with Academy

23:36

Award nominee Samantha Morton. She

23:38

said

23:38

arrives in theaters

23:39

Friday. I don't

23:44

know

23:45

if there would ever be a circumstance where you would

23:47

have to worry about this, but do you have any

23:49

concerns about, like, somebody coming on stage

23:51

like what happened with chappell at the Netflix

23:54

as a joke event? Or do you

23:56

still feel pretty comfortable? I mean,

23:58

yeah, you everyone's beefed up their

23:59

security that's on the road. I mean, that's

24:02

unfortunate, but true. Like, anyone who

24:04

tours you already have security and you just have

24:06

to get more security. So So

24:08

I thank Will

24:08

Smith for that. And then just

24:11

in terms of what you're getting back from your

24:13

audience when you're out there, do you feel

24:15

like it's the same as it was pre

24:17

COVID or has it changed or

24:19

evolved in a different way over the last couple of years?

24:21

Everyone's

24:21

just looking to forget everything.

24:23

Everything is such a mess.

24:25

in this country specifically. Never

24:28

mind the world. So, yeah, I think

24:30

people just wanna go out to a show and

24:32

relax and forget about it. and

24:34

relate. There's a definite, like,

24:36

vibe and energy, and it's a good one. Mhmm.

24:38

It's a good energy because, you know, you're

24:40

with, like, minded people. Yeah. I think a lot

24:42

of people are just happy to be out of house doing

24:45

anything. How

24:45

long will you be on the road,

24:47

Chelsea? How long are you booked for at this point?

24:50

I've

24:50

done about sixty

24:52

five shows, and I think I have about thirty

24:54

five

24:54

more. Holy cow. So yeah. I

24:56

take couple of months off in

24:58

between though. So ski season, I took

25:00

two months I'll take a month off at the end of summer,

25:03

and then I'll go back and do the fall. And

25:05

then I'll probably take a break and not tour again

25:07

until I have my next book come out. Got it.

25:09

And when

25:09

you're on the road, how often many

25:11

will you do in, like, a row or a week? Three to five

25:13

shows

25:13

a week, depending if we add second shows

25:15

and stuff. Yeah. I usually do about

25:17

three to five. Cool. You've talked about

25:19

this publicly. Your brother died when you

25:22

were, I think, like, nine years old, pretty

25:24

young. And you've talked about the impact that had on

25:26

you, like, personally and your relationships.

25:29

I'm wondering if it affected what

25:31

you decided

25:31

to do as a career. Did it give you

25:33

any sort of, like, carpet dam feeling

25:36

that that made you the kind of person who was so confident that you would

25:38

just be like, yes, I'm going to go be a

25:40

success. Yeah. Perhaps, you know, I can't

25:42

really speak to that. I mean,

25:44

who knows? with my my

25:46

personality would have been a lot different. Had he not died?

25:48

I mean, I think I always have this kind of

25:50

personality, but, yeah, the drive to be independent,

25:52

the drive to not have to rely on

25:54

a man. definitely was spurred

25:56

from him dying, you know, and

25:58

disappointing me and me thinking,

25:59

oh, shh, I'm

25:59

gonna have to grow myself up. You

26:02

know, I'm the one I could count on. Don't rely

26:04

on anyone else and certainly don't rely on

26:06

men. Mhmm. I think it definitely added to

26:08

my ambition and drive. When

26:10

I

26:10

work, I work hard, and when I don't work,

26:12

I don't really hard

26:13

as well. Mhmm. So I'm in I have a

26:15

good relationship with work and myself, you

26:18

know. It's not unhealthy. because

26:20

no one's ever gonna tell you to take a break but you. No

26:22

one no agent is like, hey, I think you should

26:24

take some time out. They don't unless, you know,

26:26

you have some problems. Mhmm. Yeah. I need to

26:28

learn that lesson. Yeah. It's a good

26:30

lesson to learn because I feel so healthy. I mean,

26:32

I'm just like, if I wanna read a book, I can read

26:34

a book. Like, now I'm about to gear up for, like,

26:37

a heavy workload. but it's all

26:39

phasing out nicely because now I have my set down. I'm about

26:41

to fill my special in Nashville at the Ryman.

26:43

I don't have to write or worry or

26:45

curate that anymore. That's down.

26:48

So now I move to the book. Now I can focus my days when

26:50

I'm on the road on that. Mhmm.

26:52

It's not always time to be so busy. Mhmm.

26:54

But there are times when I'm

26:56

extremely busy, and I'd like to be as present as

26:59

possible and, like, as healthy as possible.

27:00

Sure. You're shooting at

27:02

the Ryman. That's so cool. What a great

27:04

venue. Yeah. I know. I'm so It's gonna be beautiful. It's beautiful.

27:06

Awesome play. I've been there, Jen. It's an awesome play.

27:08

I have not. I've never been to Nashville. She

27:10

got Nashville's a die Oh, you

27:12

gotta go. Nashville's where it's at. Yeah. A lot of fun. A lot

27:14

of fun. So we finish on a much lighter

27:16

note, Chelsea, which is to ask

27:19

our guests Do you

27:21

have an all time favorite

27:23

basic cable show, not including your own of

27:25

course? God, I hate to

27:27

disappoint you guys, but it's just like I can't I don't

27:29

know the difference between basic cable

27:30

and cable. So as I like to tell people, it's not HBO or

27:33

Showtime. So, you know, is there like a

27:35

reality show? I

27:37

know. I know. I already learned that

27:38

lesson at the beginning of the podcast. No. I

27:40

don't watch reality TV. I have no good

27:42

answers for you. Can you give me

27:45

an answer? What about something on MTV?

27:47

Something on Comedy Central? No. I

27:49

never watched any of that stuff. Really? Something

27:50

else on E. No.

27:52

No. Well, then just Can we just let her

27:54

pick a TV show of all time? What doesn't have to be

27:56

caving? Sure. What's your

27:56

favorite TV show? The love boat.

27:59

Yeah. It had

27:59

all the ingredients that I

28:02

need. Luxury, interpersonal

28:05

affairs, crew, and

28:07

cabin mixing that was below deck,

28:09

you know, I loved it, and

28:11

a vacation. all in one. And great

28:13

guestars every week. Yeah. And a regular

28:15

doctor. That's

28:15

what I love that.

28:20

So Chelsea Handler, Jen, you know,

28:23

who really made her career in cable. She sort

28:25

of went up this, like, weird cable ladder

28:27

back in the day, you know, whether it was oxygen and

28:29

then e and bunch of different things,

28:31

ultimately landing her own late

28:33

night talk show on e,

28:35

which was kind of a big deal as it

28:37

turned out. And

28:37

it still is a big deal because there are not very many

28:40

women in late night as we've talked about before on

28:42

this podcast. I mean, you have

28:45

Samantha b, you have Amber

28:47

Ruffin, who both got shows after

28:49

Chelsea did. Back in the day, Joan

28:51

Rivers had a show for, like, a minute. Right. And she used

28:53

to sit in for Johnny Carson a lot? but

28:55

it's remarkable how few women have

28:57

had the opportunity to do what

28:59

Chelsea did.

28:59

And she did it very successfully. That show was very

29:02

popular for, you know,

29:04

many years she did it at a time when competition was pretty

29:06

stiff as we talked about. You know, she was up

29:08

against Colbert and John Stewart and

29:10

even Conan. on

29:12

TBS. It was like the cable landscape. Forget

29:14

about the network landscape. It was pretty

29:16

crowded back then. And she kinda did it her own

29:18

way. She didn't really do a show like any of

29:20

those guys, honestly. No.

29:21

And I think that's what probably stood out to a lot of people

29:23

and a lot of fans of that show is that it

29:25

was it had more of a

29:27

casual vibe and it

29:30

was not political in any way unlike, you know, The

29:32

Daily Show, which it was competing again.

29:34

So for people who wanted to just avoid

29:36

all that kind of stuff, Chelsea

29:38

lately was where you went. She has an

29:40

awful lot of confidence, doesn't she? Unbelievable

29:42

amount

29:42

of confidence. I will never have

29:45

one eighteenth of her confidence. When she

29:46

said, she just kinda took off out here

29:48

at nineteen, and she was just like, I'm gonna be

29:50

rich and famous. I don't know how.

29:53

but I'm gonna be she was was of ahead of her time because I feel

29:55

like that's whatever influence her things here.

29:58

Almost all of them, not as talented as

29:59

Chelsea Handler, but I feel like that's the

30:02

way people approach the world a little bit these

30:04

days. True. But even

30:05

the influencers know how they're gonna do

30:07

it. It almost sounded like Chelsea was like, I'm just gonna

30:09

do that. I don't know how. I don't know what the careers

30:11

path is gonna be. I just know I'm gonna

30:13

be successful.

30:14

Yeah. Man, she was.

30:16

You know, it seemed like it happened overnight. She

30:18

did go make a point to say it took her six

30:20

or seven years to do and stand up to kinda

30:23

finally get on TV and find her footing, but

30:25

it it did seem to happen pretty fast.

30:27

I also found an interesting, you know, her

30:29

response to, you know, what's happening out there in the

30:31

comedy landscape with culture and,

30:33

you know, sort of the position she

30:35

takes, I often find

30:37

comedians for the most part

30:39

they don't publicly comment on those

30:41

things like, you you know, they're they're making the news

30:43

these days with Chappell and Ricky Gervais. Mhmm.

30:46

Essentially, what

30:46

she was saying without using this term

30:49

was just don't punch down. It's not that hard

30:51

to not punch down or at least it shouldn't be.

30:53

Right. And

30:53

it doesn't sound like that's what she does and

30:56

It was it was it was just very interesting to to your point of

30:58

view and all that. It feels like every day

31:00

with each new Netflix special, there

31:02

seems to be another semi

31:05

controversy. Mhmm.

31:06

But they all blowover sort

31:07

of. Have you seen the Ricky's or vice

31:09

special?

31:09

I've read about Ricky's special. I have not actually

31:12

watched well, actually, no. it it auto loaded for

31:14

me once when I was signing into Netflix.

31:16

So I saw, like, a little bit of it, but

31:18

that's it. I mean,

31:19

not unlike

31:20

Chappell, it's Ricky

31:22

Jervais. I think you know what you're gonna get when you go through that

31:24

door. It's gonna be very hard hitting.

31:26

It's gonna be a little dark and it's

31:28

not for everybody. Yep. So

31:31

But anyway, I I don't know. That's

31:33

just one of my things about comedy. I'm I'm always like,

31:35

are there comedians? And if you know

31:37

what the brand is, you

31:39

get to turn the channel. Well, that's

31:42

true. You just agree with it, but

31:44

they're allowed to do what they do and

31:46

you're allowed not to like it.

31:47

True. But I think sometimes

31:50

what comedian say can have ripple

31:52

effects that extend well beyond

31:54

that. Fair enough. Not to, like, get to

31:56

in the weeds. But for example, I'm sure

31:58

you read about people who were very upset

32:00

that Chappell opened for John Milaney

32:02

recently -- Yeah. -- because they had paid to come see

32:04

John Milaney and they weren't expecting to see Dave

32:06

Chappell. And if they had known they were paying for Dave Chappell,

32:08

they might not have done it because they are

32:10

very, you know, upset by what he says about

32:12

trans people. that's a very different scenario

32:13

to me. And an interesting one too, when you

32:16

think about it. Yeah. You know, I was thinking

32:17

about, like, you know, I'm sitting in that audience. I'm

32:19

a Jabaleni fan. I

32:22

don't really go for that chappell

32:24

stuff and then all of a sudden chappell shows up.

32:26

Right.

32:26

And it's just well, I don't wanna make

32:28

this about Dave chappell because it's supposed to be about Chelsea

32:30

Handler. I'm a fan of but I just don't understand why he keeps

32:32

going back to the same jokes that are clearly

32:34

upsetting people. I don't get

32:37

it.

32:37

after he said he wouldn't, by the way. Yeah. My bad analogy is

32:39

it would be as if you went to a

32:41

power station concert and Arcadia showed up. So

32:43

It went that's a terrible

32:44

analogy because I would also be happy

32:46

about Oh, you would

32:49

be. Okay. You appreciated the both. I

32:51

appreciated them both. I

32:51

was more power station because John

32:54

Taylor

32:54

was in power station, but

32:57

It's

32:57

not like I would be offended

32:59

if Arcadia showed up. It

33:01

is bad analogy. Well, stay tuned

33:03

for more bad analogies. and join

33:05

us next week on Basic.

33:08

Basic is a pantheon media production

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33:41

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33:43

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33:45

New York Times reporters Megan Tuohy

33:47

and Jodie Kantor who together broke one of

33:49

the most important stories in a

33:52

generation, a story that shattered decades of

33:54

silence around the subject of sexual

33:56

assault in Hollywood, and ignited a shift in

33:58

American culture that continues to this

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34:02

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