0:14

My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production

0:17

of the Bear Grease podcast called

0:19

The Bear Grease Render, where we

0:21

render down, dive deeper,

0:24

and look behind the scenes of

0:26

the actual bear Grease podcast,

0:28

presented by f h F

0:31

Gear, American made purpose

0:33

built hunting and fishing gear that's

0:35

designed to be as rugged as

0:38

the place as we explore.

0:41

This is quite an environment we have in

0:44

here for the render right now. It is everybody's

0:47

heart as racing.

0:48

A lot, not me and Brad and bears bear.

0:51

Nope, you feel no increased

0:54

anxiety in your nervous system

0:56

right now.

0:56

Hey, if that if what is in that bucket

0:58

was crawling across my left, you

1:01

just chill. I mean, it's probably not.

1:03

Like an equine animal its census fear.

1:05

Yeah, is that right? Brad?

1:08

Is that why that one's being weird right now? I

1:10

don't know, because I'll

1:12

just be honest. I am not cool as

1:14

a cucumber, Josh.

1:17

Really, your heart's beating fast knowing that.

1:22

A little it's not like

1:25

it's I think it's anticipation, Okay.

1:28

I think once we talk about it and see

1:30

it, I'll calm down a little bit.

1:32

But I have to be honest at my heart rate is well

1:34

a little.

1:35

Why Josh's heart is palpating

1:38

is because within about two feet

1:40

of him is a in.

1:42

A bucket two feet on either side.

1:44

Is that a tell us what that is? Brad?

1:46

This is a timber rettlesnake, and

1:48

that is a Western diamondback rettle snake.

1:50

There in five gallon They

1:53

look like snake. Well,

1:54

the depot buckets, but it's

1:57

a but it's a lid that is made

1:59

for an animal. Looks like it's got holes

2:01

in it. We got a bunch of snakes in

2:03

here. We've got a diamondback, a

2:05

timber rattler, and a Teastern

2:08

indigo snak. Which one do you want to show us

2:10

first?

2:10

Well, I don't know. We want to show him right now? Should

2:12

we introduce?

2:13

Okay man, I'm just so excited.

2:15

We've got no mystery guest. Guys. Mystery

2:18

guests is over. This is Brad

2:20

Birchfield. Brad is uh.

2:22

He's really sorry, Brad, that was the lame

2:25

introd.

2:28

Doesn't need an he doesn't need a fancy

2:31

mystery intro. I have Josh land

2:33

bridge Fieldmaker, Bear John nukeomb here

2:36

Bush Whack to Turkey this week mistery

2:38

Newcomb, who is very scared over here, and

2:40

then her guests of Brad Birchfield

2:43

for those for those who are anticipating

2:46

this render, we're going to talk about the cobra scare,

2:49

but we're going to have our own cobra

2:51

scare today. We have lots

2:54

of snakes in here.

2:55

Brad.

2:56

How long you been into snakes man?

2:58

Ever?

2:59

Since I was a small child, like I

3:01

would say, my earliest memory is probably about

3:03

four four years old, just being

3:05

really obsessed. I was into

3:07

dinosaurs as a child, a lot of snakes.

3:09

We have a dinosaur I did.

3:12

My dad built me a dinosaur in my backyard,

3:14

twelve foot tall and still there. Yeah, my

3:17

dad built the dinosaurs in the city of mountain.

3:19

Berg, you know those big giant dinosaurs

3:21

in the city of mountain Burg here in Arkansas.

3:23

So my father built those due to my

3:25

obsession with reptiles. But you know, wow,

3:27

that was back in the seventies when there was just books and

3:30

like, you couldn't find real dinosaurs, but you could

3:32

find reptiles, and so it was kind

3:34

of easy transition into snakes, I

3:36

guess.

3:37

But Brad, you are I

3:39

don't know you real well, but you're the most

3:41

normal snake guy.

3:43

I would agree. I appreciate that. Yes, yes,

3:47

world, you do.

3:48

Tend to run into some extreme

3:50

personalities.

3:51

Snake yes people and

3:53

big cat people.

3:55

Yeah.

3:55

Yeah, yeah, they're kind of in the same category, you think,

3:57

so, Brad, Oh, absolutely do you have any big cats?

4:00

Never wanted on desire.

4:02

But a funny side note, I was watching The

4:04

Tiger King or whatever when and

4:07

the first episode there's actually a guy I knew that was on

4:09

there.

4:12

So wow, so small world.

4:15

Now you're you're you're not How

4:17

how do you classify your stuf because you're not a You're not a

4:20

like an academic herpetologist.

4:22

My degree is in journalism. Uh,

4:24

but I just have become obsessed

4:26

with snakes as a small child and just studied

4:29

them and was just fascinated with them. And

4:31

I probably should have went to college. They said to go to college

4:33

for what you're passionate about, and I'm like, I

4:35

don't know, because now I think if I went snak up and never day, I'd

4:37

probably get bored with it and hate it.

4:38

You know. So what do you do?

4:40

So you have pet snakes, but you also catch

4:42

snakes?

4:43

Yeah, well I do a lot of we would call a

4:46

herpticulturist I believe is the correct

4:48

terminology, and that's someone who's in that

4:50

world. But it's not a scientific a degree scientist.

4:53

It does stuff. But we me and some friends.

4:56

Yeah that's your title, Yes, a herbiculturists.

4:59

Man, that's a good time.

5:00

Yeah, it's hard to spell too.

5:01

Get business cards, but yeah,

5:03

we run with a lot of people with degrees in biology

5:06

and stuff like that. We just do it for fun. But

5:08

I do a lot of educational programs for Boy

5:10

Scouts and you know, nature

5:13

centers, game and fish nature centers and

5:15

stuff like that. And it's just kind of been a

5:18

function of having you know, forty

5:20

something snakes at your house and your wife

5:22

says, why do you need these snakes? And I said, well, it's

5:24

for education. I want to show these two

5:27

kids and stuff.

5:28

And she's like, oh, he's a philanthropist thus

5:30

far.

5:31

Okay, Can I ask a follow up

5:33

question? How how'd

5:36

you sell that to your wife? I mean at some point

5:38

she wasn't your wife and you had to convince her.

5:40

Funny story. Okay, everything

5:42

I tell you will be this starts with a funny story. Yeah,

5:44

when we were dating, she thought it was very amusing

5:47

that I like snakes, and so on our dates

5:49

we'd go driving the roads at night looking for you

5:51

know, road cruising for snakes, and it

5:53

was all fun. And then the day we got married, that

5:55

all ended. And I

5:57

had a couple of snakes at that point, which she wasn't

6:00

real happy with. But we had an upstairs bedroom

6:02

and I kept them up there, and they were kind of out of.

6:04

The upstairs bedroom. That seems logical.

6:06

Actually a few got out, but anyway, so

6:10

after we got kids,

6:13

the snakes got evicted. So I

6:15

have to build a big building in my backyard

6:17

to house my snakes. So I have a

6:19

separate building now that I keep my snakes

6:21

in, which she didn't realize was going to free

6:23

me up to get more snakes. Yes, now I've

6:25

got like between forty and fifty.

6:27

I'm not really sure what kind of snakes do you have? Just

6:30

a lot of, like say, all the

6:32

most of the Arkansas species. And then

6:34

I've got some.

6:35

How many Arkansas species are there?

6:37

There are thirty eight species snakes in Arket's a only

6:39

six of them are venomous, okay, but I keep

6:41

all the venomous except a coral snake. I've had coral

6:44

snakes, but they're kind of quirky to keep

6:46

in captivity. They don't do well over

6:48

time, so I just kind of don't worry about

6:50

them anymore. I've got a rubber one that I use in my snake presentations.

6:53

But I've got a lot of like corn snakes

6:55

and different kinds of king snakes. And you've

6:58

heard of a bull snake. I've heard West

7:00

bull snake. Go for snake. It's kind of like the black

7:02

rat snake of the West. I really

7:04

like that genus. So I've got several of those.

7:07

And then I've only got one exotic snake.

7:10

It's called a Andros Island

7:12

boa, and there's not much information

7:14

on them on the internet.

7:15

It's really strange.

7:16

But we went to a snake nerd

7:18

symposium and they had a silent auction

7:21

and my son was about seven, and

7:23

he pulled the old Joey off of friends

7:26

and had bid on everything in the room because he thought it was

7:28

like guess the price. And so as they're

7:30

reading the silent auction winners, I won a

7:32

pocket knife, a thermometer, and then the snake

7:34

and I won. I didn't want it. Yeah, Sig

7:36

ended up with the snakes that's the only non

7:39

native snake. I don't really get any exotics.

7:41

So you never owned a cobra?

7:43

No, No, I have a friend that has

7:45

had cobra's and I've messed with them, and it's

7:47

just not my thing. They're very quirky,

7:50

very easily agitated, very intimidating.

7:54

There's kind of like super fast and

7:56

just you know, most of the native snakes are

7:58

all pretty chill and you can kind of read their body language.

8:01

Cobras are kind of on another plane.

8:03

Yeah.

8:04

Well, my first question, so the

8:06

main reason I wanted you to come today was

8:09

how do I get a cobra? Well, I'm

8:12

I am going to I'm

8:16

going to own a cobra.

8:18

So that is an odd thing since

8:20

the Internet. I mean, there are places that sell

8:23

all sorts of nasty, venous snakes. Like

8:25

you can order a black Mambo, you can order a gabooon

8:27

viper cobra's if

8:30

you've got a credit card. Do they

8:32

just show up in the mail? Now, you have to ship

8:34

at Delta Dash. It's got to be picked up

8:36

at the airport and dropped off the airport. And

8:39

I mean there's some you.

8:40

Know, so the regulations here are pretty

8:42

loose.

8:43

Compared to some other states. Yeah, so five

8:46

years ago in Arkansas it was the wild West. There

8:48

were really no laws on snakes.

8:50

Really, you could have anything. Nobody cared.

8:53

And then Game and Fish came up with a

8:55

proposal to kind of regulate it and

8:57

make you buy permit and you have to if you're

8:59

keeping inless snakes, you're supposed to have a

9:01

finleans keeper permit that you have to you

9:03

know, meet some criteria. And then I

9:06

think seventy five dollars a year and then.

9:08

Any venomous snake. Yeah, okay,

9:10

seventy five bucks a year. Yeah,

9:13

that's not a problem.

9:14

No, that's what I'm saying. It's a bargain.

9:16

But you're not getting a cobra.

9:19

Come on, how cool would it

9:21

be? No, I commemorate the Cobra

9:23

Scare podcast, and well almost

9:25

cobra.

9:26

We'll put the cobra

9:29

in the Burgers Hall of Fame.

9:31

Well, we'll put a cobra emblem on the burgaryse

9:33

logo.

9:34

Thereah, I just think about

9:36

how often his mules get out, and like how

9:38

challenging that is to handle.

9:40

And now I'm going to have a snake while he's gone.

9:43

No, So Brad,

9:46

the uh so you have forty

9:48

snakes. Yeah, forty

9:51

is and uh, tell me about

9:54

when you're going out into the wild. And first

9:57

of all, let me just make clear Brad is

9:59

not He doesn't sell snakes. He

10:01

doesn't like catch him and kill him like

10:04

Brad is. So

10:07

Bear picked up a road

10:09

kill copperhead that I put on my Instagram

10:11

story this week when he killed his turkey.

10:13

It was a copper head with its head cut off, which

10:16

to those of us like me and Brad

10:19

that love snakes, that's in you know,

10:21

you just don't kill snakes anymore. Yeah,

10:25

it probably Bear just when he put in his truck

10:27

after it, he was already dead. They ran over it

10:30

and pretty much, I just I'm not going

10:32

to use the head. And so Brad was like, I

10:34

was glad that that was a road kill. And so I

10:36

want to just clarify Brad's not killing snakes.

10:38

He would be the last person in the world

10:41

to kill a snake. But you do go out

10:43

into the wild and catch

10:46

snakes, ye tell me, Like, what

10:48

do you do? Like if me and

10:50

you were to go out this Saturday just

10:53

to have a big time, what

10:55

will we.

10:56

Do well this time

10:58

of year? You know, it's like, honey, there's

11:00

all these seasonal things. So right now is a good time

11:03

to flip artificial cover like ten

11:06

trash boards. So if

11:08

you can find an old collapse barn or an

11:10

old chicken house, that's where there's

11:12

gonna be snakes in that, yep, And you flip that tin

11:14

and you'll find stuff under there because

11:17

the tin heats up. Snakes get under there in the night

11:19

when it's cool, and then it heats up quicker

11:21

and then they can go out and forage. They get energy

11:23

from that. But that and

11:25

flipping rocks, you know.

11:27

So you'll go out and just you're just like, hey, we're

11:29

gonna try to find a snake today. Oh yeah, you

11:31

find a snake every time you go.

11:33

Yeah, pretty much. I don't get skunked

11:35

a lot. But you know, depends on what species.

11:38

Some things are harder to find than others.

11:40

So what if I told you that I wanted

11:42

to see a

11:45

big timber rattlesnake. I'm

11:48

not asking you where we would go, but what would

11:51

we do.

11:51

Yeah, we'd probably find a like

11:54

a south or southwest facing slope, a

11:56

lot of rocks, some

11:58

open canopy because they like, you know,

12:00

to regulate between the shade

12:02

and the sun to regulate their temperature. And

12:05

it's pretty predictable once you kind

12:07

of figure out, you know, connect the dots.

12:09

Really, so it's the habitat.

12:11

Yeah, so this is yeah, one hundred

12:13

percent.

12:14

We could find one for real

12:16

right today?

12:17

Yeah, for real. Is there a certain

12:19

time of the day that they're more prone to be in

12:22

the afternoon?

12:22

I mean it all depends on temperature, you know, night,

12:25

No, Now, once it gets summertime, it

12:28

gets too hot. Something that people don't realize

12:30

a lot of times is snakes are not very

12:32

heat tolerant, just like they're not very cold tolerant.

12:34

So in the wintertime, you know, snakes is too cold. In the

12:36

summertime, you won't have snakes out crawling because

12:38

it's too hot. So they go up under your porch and

12:41

they wait till dark and then they come back out

12:43

and they go tonight. So if you ask that

12:45

question in mid June or July, I'd say, we're

12:48

not gonna find anything out in the woods to day, So we'll just wait till

12:50

tonight and then drive some roads and you'll

12:52

find.

12:52

Why are you finding snakes on roads?

12:55

It's just transitional areas they're crossing it's

12:57

not.

12:58

I used to think that they

13:00

would come up on the blacktop to

13:03

gather heat doing cool nights. So that's

13:05

a thing that's true.

13:06

That's absolutely true, because we did.

13:08

The same thing. We used to catch a lot of snakes on

13:11

roads, on blacktop roads. But

13:14

I always wondered if that was really

13:16

true, or if that's just if you drive

13:18

thirty miles a road, you're gonna just random

13:21

chance the snake's just gonna be crossing.

13:22

Yeah, especially pitt vipers, because like say,

13:25

when it cools off, you know, they're ectothermic, which

13:28

means they're the same temperature as the

13:30

air, and so once it gets cool that

13:33

the road surfaces like a battery charger

13:36

for all practical purposes, they get on that and sit for a while,

13:38

absorb that heat, and then they've got more energy to you

13:40

know, forage and look for food in the night

13:43

or reproduce or whatever.

13:44

Now this is a dumb question, but

13:47

you knew that you

13:50

could have a round eyed venomous snake.

13:53

Well I was gonna say that

13:55

was I don't know that guy, but he's right

13:59

in a certain perspective.

14:01

So venomous snakes, all the pit vipers

14:03

have elliptical pupils like a cat eyes.

14:06

Everybody thinks that that's one hundred pcent true. The

14:08

problem is in low light, their

14:11

pupils expand just like ours do. So

14:13

if you come up on a copperhead at night and you hit him

14:15

with a light, his his eyes won't

14:17

look like a slit, they'll look round because his pupils

14:20

vlated and so.

14:23

So technically what he said, you know, it's

14:25

true. But now coral snakes

14:28

are the only venomous snake with a

14:30

round pupil. They truly have a round pupil

14:32

all the time.

14:33

Yeah, so they're daytime hunters.

14:35

Yeah, yeah, But like

14:37

I say, all the pit vipers, they're going to have elliptical

14:39

pupils unless they've been out in the dark and their

14:42

eyes have dilated and they can see better.

14:44

Have you ever come across a coral snake?

14:46

Never seen a coral snake? I've seen that that

14:48

false coral snake. That's a king snake.

14:50

What is that a milk snake? Yeah,

14:53

then there's a scarlet king snake.

14:54

Have you ever seen a coral snake in the wild

14:57

in Arkansas?

14:58

Not in Arkansas?

14:59

There's they are supposed to be here.

15:00

They are.

15:01

Do you think they really are on? Yeah,

15:03

well, why hadn't you found thee.

15:05

It's they have very specific

15:07

conditions. Coral snakes really weird. They

15:09

call them fossisorial snakes, which means they

15:12

stay under leaf, litter and cover. And

15:14

the reason we don't have them up here in the Ozarks the washtalls

15:16

is the ground's too hard down in South

15:18

Arkansas between Texas, Canna, Camden,

15:21

Eldorado, there's a rough triangle

15:23

there that's that piny woods habitat

15:25

with the soft sandy soil. That's

15:27

what they like. So that's the only part of ours. So you can find

15:29

it there. But they're so reclusive

15:31

they stay under the cover. The only time you'll really

15:33

find them. The best time to find coral snakes is

15:36

after a hard rain, like if you have a really hard rain.

15:38

Now, yep, the ground gets wet and they come up and

15:40

they'll be on the surface. But most of the time you've got.

15:42

So they're not in the mountains, they're not in the highlands.

15:44

Nope, just that very limited range

15:47

in southern Arkansas.

15:47

What do you make of these

15:50

these what appears to us to

15:52

be an imitator

15:54

snake, like a snake that is

15:57

mimicking another snake. Like, so, Misty,

16:00

there's the coral snake is

16:02

a it's a it's a beautiful snake,

16:05

black, red and yellow striped snake.

16:07

I mean it looks like something your kid would

16:10

draw when they were two years old. Like,

16:12

I mean, it looks like a cartoon. Well,

16:16

the coral snake has a certain pattern. Red

16:18

touch yellow kill a fellow red

16:21

touch black, friend of jack.

16:24

So we were taught that. Because so

16:29

when you when you when you see this

16:31

snake, if red touch is yellow, it's

16:33

a coral snake. If red

16:35

touch is black, it's an

16:38

animal.

16:39

It's a milk snake.

16:40

It's a milk snake in Arkansas. So

16:43

anyway, why do they do you

16:45

think they they

16:49

did the milk snake? Had

16:51

that happen? Well, you know, ready to go.

16:54

Take us into the psychology of the snake.

16:56

A guy wrote a paper on this and I've never read

16:58

it, but he talked about why is there I like the way

17:00

you do signs, Bud, I got to

17:02

that yet, coral snak mimicry

17:04

because milk snakes occur basically

17:06

from here, you know, from the Gulf coast to Michigan,

17:09

all the way to the East coast and then some some out

17:11

west where there's never been coral snakes

17:14

historically, So why would there be a mimic

17:16

in an area where coral snakes never occurred. And

17:19

you know, it's sort of like all non venous snakes

17:21

when they get agitated, will rattle their tail to

17:23

make you think it's a rattlesnake. It's kind of a

17:26

warning, and you know it's like it's

17:28

odd, you know, like the hog no snake flares

17:30

its head out like a cobra. Yeah, but there

17:33

are no cobras in the New World. Those are all far

17:35

East snakes, so well

17:39

until.

17:39

Springfield, yes, and mister Fred,

17:42

yeah, he probably.

17:43

Let there's a lot of those things

17:45

that. Yeah, it's very interesting and uh, I

17:47

don't know what the answer is.

17:48

Okay, good as

17:51

long as I know you don't know the

17:53

answer, and just.

17:54

Like I just tell you, yeah,

17:56

okay, the uh you know, it is interesting

17:58

though that you know, bright colors in nature mean danger,

18:01

and so obviously that's why the coral snake probably

18:03

has bright red colors the worn it

18:06

would be predator. But yeah,

18:09

and like I say, milksnakes use the same defense

18:11

for it would be predator because they said that bright color and anything.

18:13

I need to leave this alone.

18:15

Really.

18:22

Clay and I were hunting on Wednesday and

18:27

I walked around this little pond and

18:30

nearly stepped on top of

18:32

a gigantic moccasin.

18:34

Are we sure it was a water moccasin?

18:37

Of course we were. All snakes are scary

18:39

and water water is

18:41

a cotton mouth.

18:42

Yes, I can verify.

18:44

I got I didn't get a great look at it, but it

18:47

was.

18:47

It was. It was.

18:48

It was as he says, it was a big

18:50

It wasn't that big, Josh, probably

18:54

a subway sandwich. That's not true.

18:56

It was. I mean he was that big in the middle

18:58

and it darted off. No, he it

19:01

he jumped as I jumped. Yeah,

19:04

and then he went under leaves, and then.

19:06

It's probably not a cotton I will come

19:08

on.

19:09

I would bet my truck on it.

19:11

It was, okay, I might trust your opinion.

19:13

I really think it was. I just he

19:16

yelled and jumped, and

19:18

I looked, and where we were

19:20

at it was a wild place. It was

19:22

way up on top of a mountain, a

19:24

small little pool. It

19:27

was a weird place to see one. But it

19:29

wasn't abandoned water snake. It

19:31

was it was. It

19:33

was like that solid uh And

19:35

I know moccasin has a pattern, but sometimes

19:37

they look solid. I

19:40

feel like it was.

19:41

Well, you know, cotton mouse has such a I

19:43

refer to it as an undeserved reputation of

19:46

being aggressive. But they're just very

19:48

assertive. They're very sure.

19:50

I like, walk up on one.

19:52

A cotton mouth will usually not take off.

19:54

It will coil up and gape its mouth and just kind

19:56

of warn you. But he

19:58

did not dart off.

20:00

He kind of just.

20:01

Well it, yeah

20:04

he did.

20:04

He did leave. Yeah, he did leave.

20:06

He was right by his hole though,

20:08

like he because he just disappeared into

20:11

like a little roote.

20:12

We look for him.

20:13

It doesn't sound like cotton mouth behavior.

20:15

Okay, I'm gonna believe

20:17

that it was a cotton mouth. That my life was indane.

20:19

The way Josh screamed like a woman, Yeah,

20:23

yeah, that is not a good indicator.

20:25

There are very few absolutes in the snake world.

20:27

And I get tickled at our snake programs because everybody

20:29

wants to know that one thing that's

20:31

you know, fool proof, that's the one hundred percent, And

20:34

there's very few things in the stup world that are like that.

20:36

Is there a certain snake that you're like, man, I'd really

20:38

like to find. Oh yeah,

20:41

there's a list.

20:42

So the top of the Me and a buddy started

20:44

about fifteen years ago wanting to find all

20:46

the venomous snakes in North America.

20:49

And we're down to.

20:49

Two and one.

20:51

Really you've found all but two? Yeah,

20:54

hey, uh, I don't want to break your your

20:56

Your rocker is kind of touching that snake

20:59

that.

20:59

Might be he's making noises.

21:01

Okay, I'll quit rocking.

21:03

So Brad is in a rocking chair and his

21:05

uh one of his very large

21:07

snakes that's in a white like linen

21:09

bag. Forward, Bear,

21:12

touch that snake and move it. Bear's not

21:14

afraid of it.

21:15

Just yanked all the way there. There

21:19

we go.

21:19

Good job Bear.

21:20

But yeah, what were we talking about the

21:23

venomous caught? Oh yeah yeah yeah.

21:25

So we're on this quest to catch all the venomus

21:27

snakes on the back and all we do it's basically

21:29

like my hobby is like birding. You know, people

21:31

go out all these play similar to take

21:34

a picture, except the birds can kill you. But

21:37

uh so we sat on this

21:39

quest and there's one little montane

21:41

rattlesnake that occurs in the kind of the Boothill

21:44

section of New Mexico, and it's a Mexican

21:46

species, but it only ranges in the US right there,

21:49

and that's like the yeah,

21:51

we haven't gotten that one yet, and there

21:53

are very few there, and it's a fairly sketchy area

21:55

to go to because

21:57

of the illegal stuff on the border. And

22:00

then the other is a subspecies of

22:02

one that science has kind.

22:03

Of did away with.

22:04

But we're we're old, we're clinging

22:06

to the old ways. Is

22:09

that's called a desert Massissauga.

22:12

Where they live, they.

22:14

Have a really spotty distribution.

22:15

They they're on the coast of Texas,

22:17

like Brownsville up to where's

22:20

the spring Break place, Padre

22:23

Island, Padre Island, down to Brownsville they occur,

22:25

and then in West Texas they're kind of spotty,

22:27

and then in Colorado and then

22:29

New Mexico and in Arizona. But they're not

22:32

just like a wide ranging they're very spotty

22:34

distributions, and science interesting

22:36

kind of doesn't recognize it now. They just call it all a

22:38

western Massissauga, which I found the

22:40

western Massissauga just not the desert.

22:43

Wow.

22:43

So, okay, have

22:46

you been bit by a venomous snake now

22:48

envenomed, never had

22:50

not yet.

22:51

No, Okay, pretty uh, pretty

22:53

dangerous, you know, deal, And you

22:55

know we understand the the what

22:59

you know, the risk and and you know we're

23:01

prepared for that because if you play with fire long enough, you're

23:03

probably gonna get burnt.

23:04

But what's your what's your take on

23:06

a guy like mister Fred that's been bit so many

23:08

times and doesn't like I've gotta

23:11

I've gotta tell the well,

23:14

let me tell the rest of the story. I have a

23:16

recording of Fred telling what he

23:18

did after he got bit by that banded

23:20

Egyptian cobra. Oh yeah, I considered

23:22

playing it. I mean, it's like gold

23:24

to me, his story. But he

23:27

was a young man, So let me tell that story.

23:29

Oh, we got a new microwave. I got a

23:31

microwave and it still keeps.

23:33

We thought we had that fix. Turns out what we

23:35

thought was beabing and it wasn't beeping. Mister

23:38

Fred, when he got bit by that banded

23:41

Egyptian cobra bitting him right on the hand and got

23:43

him good, he had to. He had to put his foot

23:45

on the snake and pull the cobra off

23:47

of him. He he tells

23:50

the story of how he finishes

23:53

doing what he was doing, like he was working

23:55

on something and he finished

23:58

working on it, and then he told

24:01

the girl that was there, like, hey, keep

24:03

running this place. I'm going to run down to the hospital.

24:06

He drove himself to the hospital.

24:07

His wife was with him. But

24:09

when he gets bit, he doesn't check into the

24:11

hospital because when he was young,

24:14

the first time that he was in venomed by a snake,

24:16

when he was fourteen, he a

24:19

went into anaphylactic shock and

24:21

nearly died from because

24:23

of the medicine, And so he wants

24:26

to be close to the hospital in

24:28

case he starts to die, but he doesn't

24:30

want to check himself in. Well, how do you think hospitals

24:32

feel about that? Not great,

24:34

they don't. They're not real cool

24:37

on it. So he goes into the waiting

24:40

room and is sitting there, and

24:42

you know, he's holding his arm and he said it

24:44

swelled up to about his elbow, but

24:47

not that bad, no pain.

24:50

But he said his throat started

24:52

to close up. Whatever

24:55

kind of venom it would be in a cobra, his throat

24:57

started to close up and he started having a hard time breeze

25:00

and and he was, but but his arm

25:02

just just swelled up. And long

25:05

story short, as I understand

25:08

that the hospital

25:10

got word that this guy had been bit by

25:12

a cobra and was

25:15

like waiting it out, and they weren't going to have

25:17

it, And so they bring a kind of a

25:20

crew of people out to

25:22

kind of like and and Fred,

25:25

granted, is a he's a carneye.

25:27

I mean like he's a.

25:30

He's a side show. Yeah.

25:33

That's not a bad word.

25:34

Is it.

25:34

I don't I don't think it's one that we say.

25:36

Carnival. He worked at a carnival. I think it's a

25:38

word. I've heard him say. He does it,

25:41

he mister Fred there.

25:44

Yeah, yeah, Take that's a legitimate job.

25:47

Take where I said it's a bad word out.

25:48

No, it's an honorable, honorable

25:51

trade. Bear you should look into

25:53

getting into the carnival son. And

25:57

basically he stands

25:59

up to greet the doctor. He sees what's about

26:01

to happen, and he shoots out.

26:03

The door and he's dalling wiry.

26:05

Yes, and it's dark outside,

26:08

and he runs into the woods and

26:10

and basically runs away and hides.

26:12

They call the police and

26:15

and there's this man hunt for

26:17

Fred in this town

26:20

and they're looking for him all night,

26:22

and he sees flashlights and he's down in

26:24

this little ravine and finally he walks

26:26

out the other side of the ravine and

26:29

it's been like six hours and he's

26:32

fine and he yeah,

26:35

he's feeling better. And so he decides he's

26:37

gonna walk back to to the

26:40

snake display at the carnival

26:42

and so he but he knows they're looking

26:44

for him, and he said he wanted to look normal,

26:46

so he went into a Dollar General and bought

26:49

some stuff and carried it in a

26:51

Dollar General sack, just so

26:53

that he would have like, he

26:55

just have something to do rather than

26:57

just walking down the road.

26:58

He just have it. Well.

27:00

Well, when he gets back to the carnival, basically

27:02

the carnival owner is

27:04

like like, just like, I

27:06

don't know if he physically grabbed him, but like they

27:09

made him go

27:11

back to the hospital and he was

27:14

like, I'm fine and they didn't

27:16

do anything to him. So anyway, he just toughed

27:18

it out.

27:19

Yeah, wow, that's one way.

27:21

Yeah, but that recommends.

27:23

But he's he's been bid over twenty times

27:25

and he's only had antivenom twice.

27:28

That's impressive, is that? I mean, is that

27:30

normal?

27:31

No, No, I wouldn't say it's normal. You

27:34

know, talking about the anphylectic shock used

27:36

to They derived the anti venom from

27:38

horse serum, they called it, and the antibodies

27:41

and the horse and ours don't get along, and so

27:43

sometimes the reaction to the antivenom was just bad

27:45

or worse than the bite. So that's completely

27:47

plausible. And then after

27:50

twenty I don't know, you may be building up somewhat

27:52

of a tolerance to the defense.

27:54

You know, just there it is.

27:56

Once again, in this weird world we live in, there

27:58

are people that self and ventomate, and they do

28:00

it very carefully, build

28:02

up a tall build up tolerance. Because he actually

28:05

mentioned Bill Host.

28:06

Did you know that name?

28:07

Oh yeah, he's like.

28:08

The mount Rushing.

28:09

He actually like I should have known it.

28:11

Yeah, I was surprised you didn't get

28:13

a little disappointed at me. He has a kind

28:16

of a roadside attraction in Florida. For

28:18

fifty years it was a snake

28:20

reptile gardens and he had been bitting on hundred

28:22

I think it's one hundred and sixty or one hundred and sixty eight times

28:25

by lies banded crates. King

28:27

Kobra's like real bad stuff, and

28:30

he got to the point where he could just

28:32

stave it off. Wasn't a big deal, and they

28:34

got blood transfusion from him to save

28:37

other people's lives because he had

28:39

built up his antibodies.

28:40

So that's that was Bill.

28:42

Yeah, that's crazy.

28:43

That is crazy.

28:44

My dad.

28:45

One time, I wish Dad was here. You

28:47

probably know this guy. I'm not gonna say

28:49

his name. He watched a guy

28:51

get bit by a copperhead kind

28:54

of a kind of an animal snake guy.

28:56

And I think I know exactly who you're talking.

29:00

Well, Dad, I.

29:01

Mean I don't. I don't know if I would have believed it, if

29:03

somebody else would have. But Dad was

29:05

like, Claire, I mean,

29:08

he reached down there and that snake just nailed

29:10

him right in the hand. And this guy

29:12

didn't even acknowledge it.

29:14

Yeah, like he wasn't.

29:16

I don't remember the exact circum circumstance.

29:19

It's been fifteen years since I've heard the story.

29:22

And Dad said, did that snake just bute

29:24

you? And he, you know, almost as if the

29:26

question was offensive to him. He was like yeah,

29:30

And I was like, okay, all right,

29:32

well let's let's go anyway. I

29:35

don't undert I don't understand.

29:36

Yeah, that's not a good plan.

29:38

I mean.

29:43

We tell people the best snake bite kit,

29:45

you know, they make these things you can still buy supporting

29:48

good stores. It's got a nice little

29:50

surgery kit with section cups and a razor,

29:52

and it's kind of like.

29:53

Wait, is that the way to go though?

29:55

No, so what do you what?

29:57

What? What do you carry in the field

29:59

for.

30:00

A cell phone and a set of car keys

30:03

by far the best.

30:04

There's nothing, you can do nothing.

30:05

The only thing that will treat snake bite

30:07

is anti venom and that

30:10

some people always say, do you take that with you have it at your

30:12

house or the thing? No, it's something that's got to be kept under

30:14

you know, really controlled

30:16

conditions. Then it's got to be diluted in saline

30:18

and injected. It's not something you

30:20

can just.

30:21

Have it up with.

30:21

Yeah I wish it was, but yeah,

30:24

so it's uh yeah, the only the

30:26

only option is to get to a hospital.

30:28

So, okay, you're in the woods, you're back

30:31

a mile and a half, you get bit by

30:33

timberrelllsnake.

30:35

What do you do? Uh?

30:36

The first thing be try to stay calm, which would

30:38

probably be hard, and then uh,

30:41

you know, walk as fast

30:43

as you could without getting winded

30:46

back to a vehicle and get get

30:48

you know, to a hospital.

30:49

It's just that simple.

30:50

Yeah, it really is. I mean, because, like I say, there's

30:52

really nothing else you can do. Tourniquets

30:55

are such a bad idea because you know the old timers,

30:57

they'd say, put a tourniquet on it and then cut ex's

30:59

on it. Out of a second. Once the venom hits your

31:01

skin and subcutaneous level, it's in

31:04

your all over. Yeah, and if

31:06

you you know, section that off with a tourniquet,

31:08

you're keeping this venom in there. Well, venom,

31:10

it's not only a poison, it's also a digestive

31:13

enzyme basically helps digest

31:15

the food at the pit viper's eat. So

31:17

when you pull that venom up in one area

31:20

and don't let it dilate through

31:22

the body, you.

31:22

Know it's gonna it's it's gonna be terrible worse.

31:25

So yeah, basically, if

31:28

you're three four

31:30

hours from medical tension that's life

31:32

threatening problem, then you're probably gonna need a

31:34

helicopter or something, you know.

31:36

Call your buddy with a chopper.

31:37

Yeah, it could get serious real quick.

31:40

But you know if you're within. A

31:42

friend of ours is doctor Spencer Green in Houston,

31:44

and he's like the the

31:46

expert and snake back in the United States. He's probably treated

31:48

more than anybody, all the other doctors combined.

31:51

But he always said, roughly

31:53

two hours. You got two hours, you

31:56

know, really two hours, you know, And there's a lot

31:58

of it all for any Let

32:01

let me clarify though, there's a lot of you know, there's

32:03

a lot of disparity in the severity of the bite

32:05

because sometimes snakes will do what's called a dry bite,

32:08

where it's just kind of you annoyed the snake and he's

32:10

just telling you leave me alone, and he doesn't inject any venom.

32:12

And then, like I said, and a snake controlled

32:14

that, Yes.

32:15

Yeah, weren't you paying attention on episode four

32:18

I did.

32:18

That was clearly covered, but it just I

32:21

remember that. But yeah, they can

32:23

control the amount of venom. And if they're

32:25

you know, himmed up on your porch by Jack Russell

32:28

Terrier and you get bit, that snake's probably gonna

32:30

sock it to you. Whereas if you're just walking out

32:32

in your yard and flip flock and you actually step on one, it

32:34

may be a dry bite. But you know, so there's

32:36

a lot of variables. But he his ballpark

32:40

was if you're within two hours of emergency medical care,

32:42

you're probably gonna be fine.

32:43

Wow.

32:44

But you know there are exceptions of that.

32:45

If it's a huge snake and you've

32:47

got a really long walk in your Hartket salvator,

32:50

you know, bad things can happen. I think we have

32:52

roughly six snake bite deaths a year

32:55

in the United States un States, and mostly.

32:57

The trend of what snake is killing people.

32:59

It's Eastern diamondbacks.

33:01

Are the most venomous that we have in the stone.

33:05

Proved an Eastern diamondback. I think

33:07

it's technically the most dangerous.

33:10

The most the most potent venom

33:12

Yes.

33:13

But they're in a limited range and you don't

33:15

see them that often Western dimond backs.

33:17

Just to remind everybody, we have one of those

33:19

in a bucket right here.

33:21

We're gonna look at him, We're gonna look at him in just

33:23

a minute. But he can take it. You know.

33:25

That's one of the myths on snake bite is you

33:27

know a lot of people will hear this and be like,

33:29

oh, I've heard that. Uh, baby,

33:31

snakes can't control the amount of venom. If they bite

33:33

you, they just hit you the everything they got and then

33:36

baby snake's venom is like highly refined.

33:38

It's more dangerous than a big snake. That is not the

33:40

case. That's one of the few things that is in stone, and

33:42

snake bite is a bigger snake always

33:44

is going to be a worst.

33:45

Bite really because the volume

33:48

of venom.

33:49

And the you know, the hardware.

33:50

If you think about a baby snake is things are going to be little

33:52

and a big snake's on that big stronger

33:55

fans. So there's that's one of

33:57

the few things that is pretty much in stone. It's a bigger

33:59

snakes cut a worse bat.

34:01

Do you have a question, do all snakes have the

34:04

have the the and

34:06

the the venom

34:10

is from a gland by the fangs

34:12

or it actually comes through the fangs.

34:13

It comes through the things or like a hyperdiermerent meel.

34:15

Are all snakes that way? No?

34:17

Just okay, So

34:20

coral snake is in the lapid.

34:22

That's that's like cut like my cobras.

34:24

And unlike the cobra. Well now they're pretty

34:27

much similar. They have fixed front fangs, but

34:29

they're fairly primitive. That's why I don't consider

34:31

coral snakes that dangerous because they have very

34:34

You have to be really dumb to get bit by a coral

34:36

snake. They have to latch

34:38

on and basically chew until they break the skin,

34:40

and they almost salivate the venom

34:42

into your system. Interesting, whereas

34:45

a pit viper hits you in the blink

34:47

of an eye and they've being.

34:48

But a cobra when he hits you, he bites

34:50

onto you. Yeah, he does show their chewers too, but

34:53

he gets you quick though.

34:54

Yeah. And they have bigger, more

34:56

well developed fangs than like a coral snake.

34:58

That's that's a little spookier that and you

35:00

know, yeah, a pit viprate

35:02

when he strikes you, I mean it's like he's just like

35:05

punching you. It's like pop pop, And then he

35:07

comes back a cobra when he hits you,

35:09

like he's gonna yeah, even

35:11

if he isn't trying to eat you, because like

35:13

if you got a bit by cobra,

35:16

like he knows he's not he's not striking

35:18

to eat you, right, he still

35:20

would latch onto you.

35:22

Yeah, he's trying to intimate you.

35:24

Wow.

35:24

Yeah, that's risky.

35:27

I have I've got I've got a couple

35:29

of good snake.

35:30

Stories, good snake stories.

35:32

I have good snake stories. And one

35:34

I have a question about that.

35:36

Maybe maybe he can answer. Do we have

35:38

time for snake stories?

35:39

Okay, okay?

35:41

First story.

35:41

When our kids were little, probably

35:44

like seven, Bear was

35:46

probably seven, Josh's son was probably

35:48

nine or ten. We would go on hikes

35:50

and hit Josh's Josh Bilmaker's

35:53

wife, Christy, and I would go with all

35:55

of our kids, and so together we had like seven

35:57

kids together, all a

36:00

pa a pascle of kids. So one day we were

36:02

out on a on a hike. I remember

36:04

Shep was five because he had just gotten his tubes

36:06

out of his ear. And we were out there

36:08

hiking and we were on some big

36:11

underneath some big bluffs, and

36:14

these snakes literally just start coming

36:16

off the bluff.

36:16

Do you remember this, Yeah, yeah,

36:19

yeah.

36:21

Yeah, And they just and and

36:23

David, David was probably

36:26

nine, and he screamed snakes and

36:28

it's like these snakes are raining from

36:30

the heavens and we

36:32

all start screaming, and Christy grabs

36:35

Shepherd so tight, and.

36:38

I believe the words that came out of your mouth were plural.

36:43

Oh yeah, I think.

36:44

I just say, yeah,

36:46

I think I think you.

36:48

For some reason I got into the grammar of it.

36:50

Well yeah, and then they

36:52

kind of went away, and all of us were

36:55

just like, what just happened?

36:57

How many snakes?

36:58

Do you think? So too?

36:59

There were two,

37:03

but it felt like snake's ray for the heaven.

37:05

And Christie let go of Shepherd and

37:07

He's just like, screwy.

37:11

Because and Christy said, who was I

37:13

holding?

37:14

I'm so sorry. I'm like pretty

37:16

sure was That's

37:18

a response my wife has when

37:20

she sees a snake on a movie.

37:23

I wish you could have been here today.

37:25

She would not have done it. Yeah,

37:28

well, so were they racing?

37:31

No?

37:32

Were they What were the.

37:38

Numbers on top of their That's

37:41

hard to.

37:43

Guess, would be that might be some sort of

37:45

den hybernaculum and they were

37:47

coming out and gravity took hold and

37:50

or you know.

37:51

Yeah they were if I remember it right, of course,

37:53

I was like seven. But there were like a lot of

37:55

holes and they were like going in and out

37:57

of the holes whenever they got down

38:00

on the ground. That look like more than ones.

38:03

So there are definitely two, but.

38:06

Plural okay, okay, plural?

38:15

Can we I want to see these snakes. Can we

38:17

get one out? Well, I mean you

38:20

tell me, you tell me. If it's not

38:22

a good idea.

38:22

We can know we can certainly get them out.

38:24

Well, I mean I brought them. I need

38:26

you to stay miked up though, that's the problem.

38:29

Okay, wait, what if what if we

38:31

we cleared out you a space right here? We

38:33

can do that here, Misty, you should

38:36

need no just stand up and back up,

38:38

bear, back up, Josh to come over here. I

38:41

just want to I just want to see one.

38:43

So so I think I'll

38:45

take this off.

38:46

Well, I don't want you to try

38:49

not to yell.

38:51

Yeah, I need the the other

38:53

one.

38:55

This is uh, Brad, you are

38:57

gonna make your Can you have me my phone

38:59

right there? Yes, sir, you're

39:02

gonna make a name. You're

39:05

gonna be on the legendary list of

39:08

render participants by bringing

39:11

by default. Oh

39:14

my, look at that bad boy.

39:17

I'll get it out.

39:18

You'll have to come closer, okay, Oh my

39:20

lord. Sometimes

39:22

he gets a little excited if he strikes.

39:24

And you found this,

39:26

yea, is this a snake

39:28

that you found, Brad? Yeah?

39:29

This is a local animal.

39:31

Is it really?

39:32

Holy smokes?

39:36

So yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

39:38

What's interesting is here in Arkansas

39:41

and eastern Oklahoma, these get really large.

39:43

Now out west, when you see diamondbacks,

39:45

they're kind of long and spinley, kind

39:48

of oh, just not big

39:50

and thick like this, But in the range

39:53

here in Arkansas and Oklahoma, they get really large.

39:55

Now is he Is he a

39:58

little more docile because you've messed with

40:00

him?

40:00

Now, if I got close, she would see a

40:02

definite change in his So he's not like friendly.

40:05

Huh, No, good thing I'm wearing my See,

40:08

look at the boots I'm wearing.

40:10

Yeah, that's probably a good thing.

40:13

Wow, hey, big boy.

40:15

Sometimes it's easier to control him

40:17

just by holding him like this. So

40:20

the curious thing about these is, like I

40:22

say, most of the deaths from rattlesnakes

40:24

the United States come from this species, and

40:27

it's because they have a huge range. They're all the Southwest,

40:29

and they're pretty quick to get upset

40:32

and bite and see that head.

40:36

I think the lethal dose for an adult

40:38

human would be like one hundred and fifty milligrams

40:40

of venom, and he could probably dose she

40:42

was about four hundred to six hundred.

40:44

Millions, So just like straight

40:46

up die from that.

40:47

Both.

40:47

Yeah, this could be dangerous.

40:48

But what is that snake? Probably fifty

40:51

two inches long.

40:52

The last time measured it was seventy seventy.

40:55

How old do you think that snake is?

40:57

This snake is probably twenty five to thirty

40:59

years old, very long lived.

41:01

How long have you had it?

41:02

I've had it for fifteen years and it

41:04

was this big one. I got it.

41:05

Really Yeah, have you had that? Ye

41:08

oh? Yes?

41:09

How often do you feed him?

41:10

Uh?

41:11

In the summertime about once every other

41:13

week?

41:13

What do you feed him?

41:14

Interesting story there. So when I got this thing,

41:17

you're doing great. It wouldn't eat.

41:20

And I tried all different colors of rats and mice

41:22

because you order rats and mice online they're frozen.

41:25

And I tried black ones and white ones

41:27

and gray ones, and then I tried live

41:29

ones and he wouldn't have anything to do with it, wouldn't eat.

41:31

And then one day I was driving home with my son and

41:33

there's a big dead gray squirrel in her rode

41:36

in from of her house and I said, hey, grab that squirrel and

41:38

we threw it in the cage and he ate it.

41:40

No way.

41:41

Wow, this one was like feeding

41:43

it old country boy a corn dog. So

41:46

now it was like, this is the one I've been waiting for.

41:48

I keep a pellet gun by the door, and every time I see a

41:51

squirrel in the yard.

41:51

So how how often do you feed him?

41:54

Uh? About every other week in the summer?

41:56

Really were Wow?

41:58

What a I would like

42:01

this to not mean the first time that Brad

42:03

gets bit by.

42:05

Yeah, well I'll put that one

42:07

in there if he'll go.

42:09

Sometimes he has a problem

42:12

going.

42:13

And now he breaks a lot of his rattles.

42:15

Yes, he is notorious for breaking his rattle.

42:18

That's why he doesn't have a very big one.

42:20

That sound is unnerving. Wow? What

42:22

to hear this other one?

42:24

Now?

42:25

Okay, wow, good

42:27

job Brads.

42:28

The closest I've ever been to a rattlesnake

42:31

that wasn't in a cage.

42:35

This is a big timor rattlesnake. This

42:38

is what old timers referred to as a velvet

42:40

tail.

42:41

Now this is my favorite man.

42:43

Some people call these cambri.

42:44

Is he bigger littler than the other one?

42:47

Well, holy smoke. Girth

42:50

wise, he's probably a beautiful

42:52

man.

42:53

I love that.

42:55

Listen, bro, I would like

42:57

to not get friendly.

42:58

With you, but that one, and if you'll notice,

43:00

has an impressive string of rattles. He's

43:03

never broken his rattles off.

43:06

Can I do this?

43:07

Yeah, you're good, But

43:10

the demeanor of the tim rattlesninks is quite a bit different.

43:13

Than they are. They are, They not as upset.

43:15

They will they will tolerate a

43:18

lot more.

43:19

Good job, missy, mister

43:21

put your headset on Misty's

43:23

back in the corner.

43:26

Hand on the man. But yeah, this

43:28

one's got an impressive string of rattles. I think there's

43:30

like twenty twenty

43:32

six or twenty eight. I can't remember last time I count

43:34

them, but wow, they

43:37

get Like I say, that's about as big as

43:39

one you'll see in Arkansas. I've only found

43:41

that one.

43:42

Does that send you a video?

43:44

Yeah?

43:44

That was that was a He probably.

43:47

Wasn't that big, but it was.

43:49

A big one. Yeah, that was awesome.

43:51

Now I feel like right

43:53

now that snake like I could reach down

43:55

and touch it, uk you could.

43:57

I wouldn't recommend it, but.

43:58

But he's he's not Could

44:02

he come from that position and hit me right

44:04

now?

44:04

So that's something I was gonna say. It's interesting

44:06

about cobras. So cobras can

44:08

basically only strike straight down these

44:12

guys. If I get over here, he's gonna sling back over

44:14

and hit me. Cobras would have to turn around,

44:17

and that's that's one thing that they're a little easier to.

44:19

That snak is probably three three and a

44:21

half inches in diameter, and it's that.

44:23

Part more than that. I bet

44:26

now he's as big a round as a good subway

44:28

sandwich in the middle.

44:29

Yeah, it's definitely that.

44:30

That water moccasin that I almost stepped on is

44:32

probably three times that, is that, right? I

44:35

really wish you.

44:36

Would have gotten a picture.

44:37

This been the state record.

44:39

Yeah, I love now

44:42

what what he's in a certain

44:45

phase like that the.

44:46

Coloration kind of the blonde

44:48

phase in Arkansas. Now,

44:51

he's pretty much gonna stay this color. In Arcantel,

44:54

you get some of their kind of gray, have different tones

44:56

of gray, and then you get some that's kind of olive green, and

44:58

then you get this phase which is kind of like a blond phase,

45:01

which is pretty light.

45:02

Now, okay, Brad

45:05

has critiqued my snake catching.

45:08

It's not good to catch him by the back of the head.

45:10

No why Okay, So

45:13

right now his fangs are folded up in the

45:15

top of his mouth. If I reach down to get him

45:17

by the neck. Guess where his fangs are pointed right

45:19

into my fingers, and they can bite through their bottom

45:22

jaw. If they get mad enough, they'll poke their fans.

45:24

Through their jaw, So that is bad.

45:26

So, like I say, if the

45:29

best thing is to not touch them at all, but if

45:31

you have to the

45:33

best technique is to like let

45:35

them stretch out and get him by the tail,

45:37

yeah, and get the head going away from you. Yeah,

45:39

and then you can pretty much gently come

45:42

under the tail and

45:45

then let's say, once they're

45:47

supported, God, that's big

45:49

sting.

45:51

Now does he eat squirrels?

45:54

Uh?

45:54

Yeah, he has what

45:57

does he prefer?

45:57

He will eat lab producing rats and mice.

46:00

So he's not as picky as not a picky.

46:02

Yeah, the diamondback will only eat squirrels

46:04

and rabbits that are not produced

46:07

in a lab, wild caught, wildcar

46:09

profound.

46:11

Wow. Can you strike

46:13

your hand right there?

46:14

No?

46:14

Not in this position.

46:16

We got gravity working against him. And then, like I say,

46:18

he's using a lot of strength to come back

46:20

up towards me.

46:22

So so if you had him by the back

46:24

of the head right up against his

46:26

neck, he could still like stick his fangs back

46:28

and hit your hand.

46:29

Yes, really yep, And like I

46:31

say, that's where your fingers are. That's why we don't

46:34

do that.

46:34

How long have you had this snake?

46:36

This is a retired stud snake from the University

46:38

of Arkansas. Oh really, buddy, Mine was doing

46:40

research on something with timber raddle snakes and

46:43

he was just up there making babies and

46:46

they were downside of the lab and I said, I need a big Was

46:48

he a wild cot Yeah, came from Madison

46:50

County. That right, Yep. I

46:54

say, timber radlesnakes are a lot more they'll

46:57

tolerate a lot more than the diamondbacks.

46:59

Because you can see he's pretty much just annoyed that I'm

47:01

holding him. What is the number of rattles equate

47:04

to how many times it sheds a year? Okay,

47:07

so he has a good year and he'll

47:09

shed two or three times, he'll get three or four, you

47:11

know, two three segments on the bottom of his rattle. If

47:13

he has a bad year, like a drought and there's not much

47:15

to eat, then he won't you know, he'll

47:18

just shed once. Now I don't sure

47:20

what he's doing here doing

47:22

that, but yeah,

47:24

the you can't age a rattlesnake.

47:27

Yeah, that that whole how many rattles, how many

47:29

years?

47:29

Is just not because, like I say, you think that diamondback

47:31

would have a huge section of rattles, but really

47:34

doesn't. So there's

47:37

the timber rattlesnake right now,

47:39

this guy.

47:41

That's probably more along the lines what I need.

47:43

Yeah, it's a good starter snake. Now,

47:48

now the irony is venom

47:51

wise. This guy has got a lot more different

47:54

stuff in his venom, whereas

47:56

the diamondbacks pretty much a straight

47:58

hemotoxin, which is just the venom

48:00

that.

48:01

Attacks the red blood cells and destroys

48:03

the cell walls.

48:05

The timberrel snakes got heema

48:08

tuxin and neural tousin, which is what you get in the coral

48:10

sticks in the cobras.

48:11

Wow.

48:11

So not only does it cause tissue loss and burning

48:14

and all that, it can also like shut your die

48:16

frame down.

48:18

So okay, we're good, All

48:20

snakes are up.

48:21

We'll look at that one afterwards.

48:22

Yeah yeah, okay, all rights.

48:28

Wow, that was that was some good.

48:29

That was good. That was good.

48:31

I wish you all could have seen it. So

48:36

we do need to talk about the Cobra Scare podcast.

48:40

I So I got to give credit to

48:42

my friend Isaac Neil, who told

48:45

me he he's from Springfield. I

48:47

wanted him on this render but he couldn't come.

48:50

Are they still raddling? Is that what I'm here?

48:51

Yeah?

48:52

They're still ling. So Isaac Neil

48:54

was like, man, there's a great story in Springfield.

48:57

He said, I don't know if it's really like a Bear Grease

48:59

style store, but there were some cobras

49:01

that got loosed the Great Cobra Scare of nineteen fifty

49:03

three. There's a beer in Springfield

49:06

that's named Cobra Scare. And I

49:08

started researching it and I was like, Isaac,

49:11

this is like big time up my alley.

49:14

And the first two people that I contacted

49:17

were it was Kyle Jeffries at

49:19

the Mother's Brewery because these guys

49:21

had named a beer Cobra Scare, and

49:23

then he referred me to the museum

49:26

curator, John Steller's. And

49:29

when I talked to those guys, I was like, this

49:31

is going to be good. And it

49:35

really was one of my favorite podcasts that we've done

49:37

in a while, just because it was so crazy.

49:41

You've had quite the reaction to the video you put

49:43

on Instagram.

49:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah, what

49:47

did you know about that would you have known about the

49:49

cobra scare.

49:50

I heard about that about five years ago, and I

49:52

had never heard it before either what

49:55

context? Some snake

49:57

person on Facebook had a picture

49:59

of a to give the sheriff holding the

50:01

dead one there by the car. Yeah, it was like, you

50:03

know, because black and white old, It's like, you

50:05

didn't see many cobras, And I'm like, what is

50:07

this? And I started doing a dig deep

50:10

dive into Google and the next thing you know, I'm like, I hadn't

50:12

no id, I've never heard of.

50:12

This great cobras here fast. What

50:15

stood out to you in that story? Anything stand out

50:17

to you?

50:18

Just the general.

50:21

Outlook of people and snakes, you

50:23

know, because in that time, you know, totally

50:26

different time and just everybody

50:28

being terrified and like these things are going to attack

50:30

us, and you know, it's probably

50:33

wasn't that big a deal. I mean, if

50:35

your kids out playing in the yard and find some

50:37

one, that's obviously bad. But these

50:39

snakes weren't looking for people to bite, you

50:41

know, They're just trying to hide or find food.

50:43

Yeah, but you

50:46

got to give it a little bit of credit though.

50:48

Man, I would I would be spooked

50:50

if they were just like, hey, there's like

50:52

a bunch of cobras out here.

50:54

Yeah, and you don't know where they come from, and you don't

50:56

know how many there are. Yeah, so there's

50:58

like three or four.

50:59

I mean, it's it's I bet if

51:01

that same thing happened in any city,

51:03

it could happen in the country, it would be different because people

51:06

are more spread out and the snakes would

51:08

just kind of like disappear. But this happened

51:10

in right in the middle of downtown Springfield,

51:13

and there was an epicenter and all these snakes

51:15

were like within just like a mile, you

51:18

know, and so they had dispersed from somewhere,

51:20

and I could see. I bet you'd

51:22

have the same reaction today.

51:25

Do you think probably people

51:28

just going on lockdown, people getting crazy,

51:30

people trying to do

51:32

wild stuff, people leaving.

51:35

I mean, I bet people

51:37

coming, you know. I think there's people who

51:39

Yeah, there'd be yeah,

51:46

probably yeah.

51:48

Yeah, what uhbing.

51:55

Very hard?

51:56

What stood out to you, Missy from a just

51:59

whatever where you're interested in the snake cobras,

52:03

the social aspects, the motherly

52:05

aspects of women protecting their their

52:08

children.

52:08

Well, I mean, I don't think you heard a lot of that in the story.

52:11

I think the.

52:14

You know them getting

52:16

it with a hoe. That's probably where my.

52:19

Since apparently if you want to protect yourselves from

52:21

snakes.

52:23

I remember the first time I ever saw a snake,

52:25

and it was my mom killing one with a hoe and

52:27

I was a little bitty girl and she was hysterical,

52:31

and I'm pretty sure it was like a garden steak. And

52:34

that was the first time I ever saw one. And I imprinted,

52:37

obviously as evidence today pretty

52:39

hard. This is

52:42

my mom is a pretty normal person.

52:44

But they killed one with the hope.

52:46

So what stood out to you?

52:48

I thought my fav it

52:51

was a fun podcast.

52:51

I think the part where they were playing flutes in

52:54

the streets, I

52:56

think that was probably my favorite part.

52:58

You know, we grew up in an area you always

53:00

saw. You're right, the eighties were.

53:02

The two

53:06

scariest things in the eighties were cobras

53:08

and quicksand yeah.

53:10

Yeah, and yeah, and so

53:13

I when they I would have known,

53:15

that's not the kind of flute you play like.

53:17

I would have known the flutes don't sound like that, that

53:19

you've got to play them, because the picture I

53:21

have in my head is like you get the high school band out there

53:24

with flutes and they're on the on and they're

53:26

blaring it with these loudspeakers. That's kind of how I envisioned

53:29

it, but that that image was pretty funny

53:31

to me. Men with pitchforks and players

53:34

brow.

53:34

Do you know much about Indian snake charmers, son

53:37

was I. I did a you know, a

53:39

little bit of research just trying to understand

53:42

like what this means in their culture.

53:45

And these guys are from my research,

53:48

these guys that are snake charmers. So they're

53:50

the guys that are putting these little little baskets

53:53

of snakes, lifting the lid off, a big cobra

53:55

jumps out there within striking distance

53:58

and they're playing this flute moving while the snake

54:00

is doing like this. If you watch them

54:04

lots of videos, they get struck out

54:06

all the time and they just kind

54:08

of move out of the way or they slap.

54:09

The snake and they

54:12

to see them slap the.

54:15

But also read that a lot

54:17

of that is, uh, the snakes

54:19

are not healthy snakes,

54:22

like they're not feeding them and they're kind

54:24

of weak. It maybe what's

54:27

your what you're well, let me say what I was gonna

54:29

say. They're Culturally they're known

54:31

as healers and magicians, so they're

54:33

kind of like these special people like, oh, you're

54:36

a snake charmer, well can you can

54:38

you help me? You clearly have this power.

54:41

What do you know about snake charmers?

54:42

Basically that, yeah, it's just all

54:45

tied to kind of ancient medicine

54:47

and healing and that kind of thing. And you know,

54:50

they the snake is qing in on the movement of the

54:52

flute and the you know.

54:54

I don't understand why they don't get a bit though. I still

54:56

don't understandin.

54:57

That cobra basically construct straight

54:59

down, so he's not like a like

55:01

you wouldn't do that with a rattlesnake, right, would

55:04

get it would bite you. But cobras are pretty

55:06

predictable in the way they react,

55:08

and that's why they slap them on the head and stuff because

55:11

they know. But you know, it's it's

55:13

dangerous for sure. But can you

55:15

take the things out of a snake? Yeah, there

55:18

are, but they'll grow back. Yes,

55:20

sometimes there are venomoid animals, but they

55:22

don't really do well.

55:23

I mean some people do.

55:24

That interesting

55:26

little anecdote you're talking about, You know, when did cobras

55:29

pop up and back then do people

55:31

know about cobras? So back in the thirties,

55:33

there was a guy named Ross Allen from Florida,

55:35

another famous snake guy, and he did

55:37

a lot of the stunt work in Tarzan, the

55:40

old Tarzan cereal, and they

55:43

would literally take like Eastern diamondbacks

55:45

or cotton mouths and like milk them, yeah, and

55:47

cobras and stuff as much as they thought

55:49

they could, and then it would literally bite him on screen.

55:53

Oh my god, like they

55:55

just drained the venom and say you'll

55:57

be fine, We've got to shoot this right now. Yeah,

56:00

because the snake's on endy so wow.

56:02

Yeah, they would already do that. So and I thought

56:04

about that, thought, yeah, cobra's I mean books

56:06

and stuff. Probably people were aware of cobras, but that would

56:09

have been a pretty shocking thing. You

56:11

know, you're single in Springfield, Missouri.

56:13

Yeah.

56:14

Did it work? Yeah? Yeah,

56:17

he he did a lot of movies,

56:19

a lot of TVs. He made it.

56:21

Yeah, But that was that's

56:23

taken your job to a whole new level.

56:25

Did so?

56:26

I like on the render to comment on some

56:28

of the some of some of the things

56:30

that that was said on

56:32

the on the deal, I thought bringing

56:36

the cultural image back to something that we

56:38

could relate to that was helpful

56:40

for me, like to understand

56:43

Indian snake charmers and saying that

56:45

would be like if

56:47

what if Brent Reeves had a had a big

56:50

timber rattler and a bucket, which would be different

56:52

What you just did was is more impressive.

56:54

But imagine, imagine.

56:56

He's basically a snake driver.

56:58

Yeah, but but but what if?

57:01

What if?

57:01

What if there was like that tradition here

57:04

where you had I mean, there's a you can see

57:06

how those guys it's a powerful cultural

57:09

image. When we see it, it seems exotic,

57:11

far off, not understandable,

57:14

not approachable, not touchable. But like

57:16

what if our little kids grew up and they

57:18

were like, one day, I'm gonna be a cobra

57:20

snake charmer. Or like me trying

57:22

to tell Bear, you should you should really look into

57:24

this, you should be a snake d you

57:27

know what I mean? Like, I was just trying to find

57:30

a way to like make it connectable

57:32

because and obviously we don't

57:34

have anything like that.

57:35

Well I think we do, Okay, have

57:37

you ever seen the snake handling churches up in that place?

57:40

Well I mentioned that, I mean that's straight

57:42

up, you know. Yeah,

57:44

I mean that's his faith strong.

57:46

Is that much? Is that still going on?

57:48

Yeah? Not near as much, but

57:50

they're still. It's funny. I liked a Facebook

57:53

page of a church.

57:53

I can't remember of it, but I followed it and

57:55

they post videos of their service and

57:58

about every six months, I'll

58:00

have a snake little snake handle.

58:03

Gnawing my fingernails off watching it.

58:05

But and this guy's dad and

58:07

his dad both died from snake back really

58:10

and he said on there, it's it's very interesting their

58:12

faith genuine?

58:14

Do you think they are? Because

58:18

well, but what I'm saying is that sometimes

58:20

I've seen it and it feels and I mean, and I'm

58:22

a I'm a I'm a I'm a church going man. So

58:24

like I could respect somebody doing something that

58:27

they actually had faith in. And I'm not suggesting

58:29

I'm not into handling snakes, but like

58:31

I could see someone doing it and it like actually

58:34

meaning something to them. Yeah,

58:38

I mean because because me and Brad could

58:40

and Bear could go probably pick

58:43

up a rattlesnake in a church

58:45

and it it wouldn't really have

58:47

any Like I don't know how your

58:50

read was these guys.

58:52

Yeah, there was a documentary

58:54

about this. One preacher's how I discovered this whole church,

58:57

and uh, this guy talked to him and he talked about

58:59

and he said, hey, it's not for me. And he said, I don't do it unless

59:02

the Lord caused me to do it. And he said, I know

59:04

the consequences, and you know he's

59:06

doing He's the Lord is telling me to do this for a

59:08

reason, to you know, bring somebody's faith. Guine

59:11

very genuine to the point, and I'm like, man,

59:13

I wish my faith was that strong.

59:16

Because I saw you pick up well

59:18

yeah, but you know, watching

59:20

pick Up the Snake, it was just very like

59:23

there was like a grace to like you just it

59:25

was.

59:26

It's just not that big. Yeah, yeah, interesting

59:29

Bart. What stood out to you about the podcast? What was your

59:31

favorite part? Well, well, first

59:33

I've got a question. Did you get

59:37

why he had twelve of them? Like

59:41

why didn't he just have like two or three, Like

59:43

it doesn't make any sense to have a hole?

59:45

Maybe they were only sold by the dozens.

59:46

Well probably you can't break a discount,

59:49

you by, but you know, back then there

59:51

wasn't much in in husbandry. They

59:54

didn't have to take care of them, so they were likely going to

59:56

get twelve and one or two is going to live the rest

59:58

in bringing back because they didn't feed because they were

1:00:00

kept in abysmal conditions.

1:00:02

Okay, mister Fred may have some

1:00:04

insight into this because when he mentioned

1:00:07

that he ordered twenty five king

1:00:09

cobras from Bangladesh and

1:00:12

he didn't want twenty five. He wanted twelve

1:00:15

for his snake, so he knew

1:00:17

he wouldn't get twelve, and he

1:00:20

actually only got three. He

1:00:23

ordered twenty five and got three, and they shipped

1:00:25

him to New Orleans and he went down to New

1:00:27

Orleans. He tells a great story. He went to New

1:00:29

Orleans, picked up like huge

1:00:32

king kobras, like fifteen footers, and

1:00:35

they were the customs the customs

1:00:38

people. This is so long ago,

1:00:40

I mean, you know, probably like the seventies or something.

1:00:43

Maybe it was maybe it was later than that. The customs

1:00:46

people said, we got

1:00:48

to see these snakes. And he was like, really

1:00:51

you want to see them?

1:00:52

And they were.

1:00:53

They demanded to see him and he and

1:00:55

they're like in like an office and he's like, you want

1:00:57

me to turn the snake loose? Here They thought

1:01:00

he suspected that they thought there

1:01:02

was there was drugs in there and

1:01:05

that they were smuggling drug It was a cover of smuggle

1:01:07

drugs. And so they were like, we want to see the snake,

1:01:10

and he just was like are you sure?

1:01:12

Are you sure?

1:01:13

You want me to put this snake right here? And

1:01:16

they're just like yep. And so he does.

1:01:18

He pulls out a fifteen foot king kobra and just

1:01:20

plops it in the ground. Oh my, and

1:01:23

he it was and anyway,

1:01:26

the room just like scatters and

1:01:28

he gathers the snake back up and gets it in,

1:01:31

gets it back and he was like, okay,

1:01:33

sir, you're good to go.

1:01:35

Wow.

1:01:43

So I've got a friend that's I think he's eighty

1:01:45

two now and he grew up in that era and

1:01:48

he lived up into Ohio and he worked at a zoo

1:01:51

and I think what he said he did. He

1:01:53

went in and started looking at their bills

1:01:55

of ladings and shipments and stuff they've gotten,

1:01:58

and got the names of people in Africa and

1:02:00

India and he started writing them as

1:02:02

like a twelve year old kid and was

1:02:04

like, I will provide you with you

1:02:06

know, X amount of black rat snakes and garter snakes

1:02:09

in this net and you please send me. And he said

1:02:11

he would get in these boxes marked venomous

1:02:13

snakes and he would open it up and there'd

1:02:15

be like fifteen different snakes and bags and

1:02:18

he didn't know what they were. And I mean as a child,

1:02:20

and he would go get books and figure out, Okay, this is

1:02:23

bothers Asper and this is you know not Na

1:02:26

And yeah, I'm like, are you kidding?

1:02:28

But yeah, apparently back then it was pretty much but

1:02:32

he said he, yeah, he had some crazy

1:02:35

stuff back in probably in the late fifties when

1:02:37

he was a kid.

1:02:38

So anything could go.

1:02:39

Yeah.

1:02:40

I made the statement that

1:02:42

some people believe the king Kobra to

1:02:45

be the most venomous snake in

1:02:47

the world. My doctor Chris

1:02:49

Jenkins of the Snake Talk podcast. He

1:02:52

actually, I had

1:02:54

to put it that simply like some people

1:02:56

think it. Uh, he didn't. He

1:02:59

said the Kingcobra actually might

1:03:02

not even make its top three most deadly

1:03:05

how accurate. Fact checked me on my state. Yeah,

1:03:08

you don't. So when you heard me say that, you were like,

1:03:11

Brito's done. You were like, they

1:03:14

miss that.

1:03:15

No, I mean, but King Kobra's they are they're

1:03:18

large. You're

1:03:20

talking about a big snake that can deliver a lot of venom.

1:03:22

That's what makes it so dangerous. But as

1:03:24

far as like on a program basis, it's not not

1:03:27

what is a lot of the

1:03:29

taype hands in Australia.

1:03:31

Australia, like eighty percent of their snakes are deadly,

1:03:34

Like, they don't have many harmless snakes there.

1:03:36

They don't mess around.

1:03:37

And yeah, and a lot of those venoms

1:03:39

are a lot more toxic. And like the inland

1:03:41

taype hand I think has the highest

1:03:44

LD fifty. They call it an LD fifty score.

1:03:46

And uh, but that one and then

1:03:49

like say, the one that kills probably more people

1:03:51

worldwide is called a saw skilled

1:03:53

viper and it lives

1:03:55

in the Middle East basically. And

1:03:57

in fact, I can't remember the Bible verse about

1:04:00

the sizzling snakes in I

1:04:02

don't know it's in the Old Testament, but I think that's

1:04:05

what they're referring to, because these snakes, when they get

1:04:07

agitated, they'll roll their scales

1:04:09

against theirselves and it makes like a sort

1:04:11

of like a rattling or sizzling sound.

1:04:13

But and the reason is they have very toxic

1:04:15

venom. They're very common in where they occur

1:04:17

as people are barefoot and there's not much medical

1:04:20

care, so there's a lot of factors. But yeah, king

1:04:22

cobras, that's just like, you

1:04:24

know.

1:04:24

Not that.

1:04:27

Yeah, now it was the king cobra more venomous

1:04:29

than these rattle snakes.

1:04:31

Yeah, probably, okay,

1:04:34

just because the Neuve toxic components there.

1:04:36

So when I have my king cobra, yeah,

1:04:38

and my rattlers, watch out

1:04:40

for the king cobra.

1:04:41

Yeah, I would yeah say that

1:04:43

you didn't.

1:04:44

I didn't let you finish what what what stood

1:04:46

out to you most well? I thought that it was interesting that

1:04:48

like people would

1:04:50

have had no context for what

1:04:53

a cobra was like

1:04:55

that that would have never occurred to me. You didn't

1:04:57

grow up in the eighties, so I don't think you really have

1:04:59

a contact for what a cobra is. Well, I mean I've

1:05:02

seen strike first strike Guard no mercy,

1:05:05

sir.

1:05:06

He's been raised, right, you know, he saw the right

1:05:08

movies.

1:05:10

It just seems like you just see cobras like that's

1:05:12

just like a school man. I just know it, like it's

1:05:14

not something you'd even think about. And

1:05:17

yeah, so whenever like they were, you

1:05:20

know, pulling out the flutes and stuff,

1:05:23

and I guess you kind of explained how they weren't necessarily

1:05:25

totally serious about that. But it just never would

1:05:28

have occurred to me that they wouldn't have had any

1:05:30

idea that just because

1:05:32

they don't have like the exposure

1:05:34

to it, they would have been looking and like encyclopedias

1:05:37

to learn about cobra. Absolutely,

1:05:40

I mean yeah, yeah, there's no Google, there's no YouTube.

1:05:43

Yeah, and they wouldn't have seen it on movies

1:05:45

and stuff growing up. Yeah,

1:05:49

Yeah, josh

1:05:51

Wa stood out to you.

1:05:55

The whole thing was pretty interesting. But

1:05:59

uh, I think it's

1:06:01

interesting how the that

1:06:05

isolated situation, I mean it

1:06:07

went, it lasted over the period of like six weeks,

1:06:09

yep. How much

1:06:11

it imprinted on the identity of Springfield.

1:06:14

Yeah, I mean the.

1:06:15

Fact that they went and put it

1:06:17

on the seal, they had the cobra haircut,

1:06:19

I mean, all these things, like it

1:06:22

was sensational at the time, and

1:06:24

I mean rightly so. But just

1:06:26

the fact that to this day, what

1:06:29

are we sixty years later, there's still a

1:06:31

cobra on the seal seventy one seventy

1:06:33

one years, Yeah, there's still a cobra

1:06:36

on the seal. I love it. I mean I love

1:06:38

that A simple thing

1:06:40

like that can change the destiny of

1:06:43

a place.

1:06:43

I thought Kyle Jeffers did a great job of explaining

1:06:46

why little quirky regional

1:06:48

things bring a lot of identity.

1:06:51

And the guy from the brewery, he was like, he

1:06:53

was like, yeah, every little town's got something

1:06:56

weird that happened yep, and this

1:06:58

was our little weird thing, you know. So

1:07:01

I thought he did a good job of telling

1:07:03

that kind of stuff. I'll

1:07:06

tell you, I'll tell you this

1:07:08

is this is behind the veil. I

1:07:12

don't fully buy Carl Barnett's

1:07:15

confession.

1:07:16

Really, yeah,

1:07:19

that was my favorite part.

1:07:24

Okay, So so there's

1:07:27

a there's a more extended version

1:07:29

of the confession and

1:07:32

they actually ask him if

1:07:34

he had any regrets and if

1:07:36

he wished he hadn't done it, and he kind

1:07:39

of gets defensive and he they

1:07:41

were like, would you would you do it different if you could

1:07:43

do it again, and he was like, well.

1:07:45

No, no, that's sucker cheated.

1:07:48

And there's just something. So

1:07:51

it's a it's a YouTube video. You can look it up,

1:07:54

the Cobra Scare. Maybe we'll put it in the

1:07:56

in the in the in the link, in the in

1:07:58

the in the description, but

1:08:00

you can watch him tell the story,

1:08:03

and I just think, I don't

1:08:05

know when I when I was watching him,

1:08:08

I just was kind of like, did you really do that?

1:08:10

Carl? I mean, I don't

1:08:12

want to cast skepticism on we

1:08:16

need idyll

1:08:20

As. I understand it. Carl is no longer

1:08:22

with us, So it

1:08:25

was pretty back

1:08:27

in ninety two he was.

1:08:28

I mean, he was, yeah, what's the counterfactual

1:08:31

play?

1:08:31

Like if you if you say something like that, there has to

1:08:33

be another theory for what happened.

1:08:36

I just think, no,

1:08:38

I'm not saying, I'm just saying

1:08:41

I'm slightly skeptical that that he

1:08:43

actually did it just

1:08:46

from reading just reading his eyes,

1:08:49

I'm just like that God lied to you.

1:08:51

Whoa he has grandkids.

1:08:55

I have no.

1:08:58

Evidence.

1:09:00

Oh no, no, no, no. All I did was watching a YouTube

1:09:02

video video. I just I

1:09:05

just wondered if anybody else got that vibe.

1:09:07

I did not.

1:09:08

Okay, he was very sincere.

1:09:09

I was like this, guys, I

1:09:11

watched the extended one too, and I think

1:09:14

you're you.

1:09:15

I think the defensiveness is actually makes

1:09:17

it sound more factual, more

1:09:20

more truthful.

1:09:21

Yeah.

1:09:21

Well, the fact that he lived with it for thirty years

1:09:23

before telling someone.

1:09:24

Yeah, I mean we'll see.

1:09:26

That's part. That's part

1:09:28

of it though, if you like, no one

1:09:30

could dispute him. Yeah, do you understand.

1:09:32

I mean it's like there's nobody that's gonna

1:09:34

go, well you wait for you were

1:09:37

at Yeah, yeah, reil Meyer couldn't

1:09:39

have gone. I don't even know this guy, Like I didn't trade

1:09:41

fish, Like, it's all so

1:09:44

deep in the past. That was it too,

1:09:46

it there and there were no other there

1:09:49

were no other stories.

1:09:51

But but what would his motivation be? That

1:09:53

that's another one. If we're in the court of law, I'd

1:09:55

be like, well, why would you lie? He has no reason

1:09:57

to lie, which I at

1:10:00

that other than just maybe

1:10:02

just a little uh publicity.

1:10:04

What else do you think would have could have happened?

1:10:06

I mean, the snakes just got out of rail my ours

1:10:09

pet shop, you know, I mean, they just

1:10:11

got loose.

1:10:13

Maybe you sound like a colorful guy,

1:10:15

Yeah, yeah, like

1:10:20

my kind of guy.

1:10:23

Uh.

1:10:25

Well, it was it was a fun It

1:10:27

was a fun podcast.

1:10:29

I want to hear about bears turkey.

1:10:31

Oh yeah, give

1:10:35

us the give us the version, the

1:10:37

condensed version of your turkey hunt.

1:10:39

Okay, well pretty much. I I

1:10:42

hunted from opening day till

1:10:44

Thursday and had a couple of really good opportunities

1:10:47

on turkeys, and I kind of had an

1:10:49

idea of what When.

1:10:50

He says he hunted those days, he literally

1:10:52

left and didn't come home. Well,

1:10:55

he spent the night. I spent the night out there.

1:10:56

Yeah.

1:10:57

I had to keep.

1:11:00

A big senior presentation that he had to do at school.

1:11:02

And he shows up at our house and is like, Mom,

1:11:06

do you know where the shirt is?

1:11:07

Do you know what?

1:11:07

And it's coming in from the woods and went straightway.

1:11:12

I came early enough. But anyway, I over

1:11:15

the four days, I kind of developed

1:11:18

an idea of what they were doing.

1:11:19

It was, well, and you were you were sleeping

1:11:22

in your truck at your spot, right.

1:11:23

Yeah. He would leave the house at like ten o'clock

1:11:25

at night to go get his spot yep,

1:11:28

and sleep in his truck. And then

1:11:31

you know, he had a couple of guys pull in before daylight.

1:11:33

He could stumble out, you know, and his underwear

1:11:36

and be like, I'm darky on there. Pretty

1:11:39

much. But uh yeah, So I kind

1:11:41

of had an idea of what they were doing. And there was one particular

1:11:44

turkey, the first one that I heard on opening day,

1:11:46

and uh, I could I knew where he was roosting.

1:11:49

But I couldn't really get in close

1:11:52

on him every morning, but I heard

1:11:54

him the first two days like right

1:11:56

before like gobble down in the exact same spot,

1:11:59

and uh, I'd go down there and try

1:12:01

and get them, and I'd eventually find them up the mountain

1:12:05

like four hunder yards probably maybe

1:12:07

not that far. But in two of the

1:12:09

days he met up with another gobbler

1:12:11

up there, and I'd hear two of them. Would

1:12:13

you do you have their like calendar? Pretty

1:12:16

much like he was meeting up with another

1:12:18

guy. It it just seemed

1:12:20

like they were always like right there after

1:12:22

they got up through.

1:12:23

Anyway, I.

1:12:26

On Thursday, I go down

1:12:29

to where I can hear into

1:12:32

this haller where I've been hearing

1:12:34

some turkeys, and then kind of hear another area or

1:12:36

to my right, but I, uh, I

1:12:39

heard another guy. Well, I saw a

1:12:41

bunch of headlamps like

1:12:43

all around the haller. I saw three. Two

1:12:46

of them were like kind of and this is

1:12:48

a this is a hollow

1:12:50

that's like half a mile across,

1:12:53

but the leaves aren't still out, so you could see

1:12:55

a headlamp like bobbing through the woods.

1:12:57

Am I right? Yeah? And uh it seem

1:13:00

like people were just like accumulating every

1:13:02

day because they would hear turkeys and then come back

1:13:04

the next day. And anyway,

1:13:07

I get in there and there's a guy over across the haller

1:13:09

who's alt hooting a whole bunch

1:13:11

and crow calling and this care

1:13:14

going on, yeah, just over and over, and

1:13:16

I was about to actually leave because I kind

1:13:19

of thought he was just gonna blow out

1:13:21

all the turkeys because he was like right in

1:13:23

the middle of where a lot of the turkeys

1:13:26

were, and I was

1:13:28

considering leaving, and then I heard one, the

1:13:30

one right down on his roost where

1:13:33

he usually is, and it

1:13:36

was like the gun going off at a track

1:13:38

meet. It was like you could just feel like everybody'd

1:13:40

come off the top of the haller and just like started

1:13:43

going towards him. But I kind

1:13:45

of knew he was going to go up

1:13:47

the mountain to where he was, and I knew I wasn't going

1:13:49

to kill him on the roost or like

1:13:51

you know, catch him flying down, and

1:13:54

so I just kind of ran up to where I figured

1:13:56

he'd be. And it took me a really long

1:13:58

time because there's big blow and stuff, and

1:14:01

it's a big hauler, and I

1:14:04

get a.

1:14:04

Scene out of Last of the Mohicans. Yeah, just

1:14:07

running through the woods.

1:14:08

I was. I was literally running at a few different

1:14:10

point, hair flying, and

1:14:14

I get up about where I think

1:14:17

he's gonna be, and uh, I

1:14:19

hear him. As I get close to that point, I can

1:14:21

hear him gobbling up the mountain

1:14:24

from me, and uh, as

1:14:26

I get closer, I can hear two gobblers up there,

1:14:28

gobbling at each other, like like one

1:14:30

would gobble and the other one would start up right after.

1:14:33

And I just started to get closer, you

1:14:36

know. I figured I'd just get as close as I can and then call.

1:14:39

But I just got closer and closer and closer.

1:14:42

And I got to where I was like eighty

1:14:44

yards from him, and they were up the mountain from me, and

1:14:47

uh, they were up on this bluff

1:14:49

above me, and I saw a break

1:14:52

in the bluff where I could kind of get up

1:14:54

it, and I was like, and up

1:14:56

at the very top of it was a big rock and

1:14:58

so like a rock as big as your

1:15:00

truck.

1:15:01

Yeah.

1:15:01

Yeah, And so I figured I could get

1:15:04

up there. Now, why didn't you want to call at them

1:15:06

when you were that close? Well, I thought about

1:15:08

it, but I was downhill from them, and

1:15:10

I wanted to be above them, and I

1:15:13

didn't know if I

1:15:16

just didn't know if they'd come off, because at that point

1:15:18

they were like even with me. Between

1:15:20

me and them was a bluff. They

1:15:22

weren't even with the part where you could get up and h

1:15:24

okay. And so I figured i'd kind of get up that

1:15:27

part and get even with them,

1:15:29

and i'd pop out, you know, right next

1:15:31

to that rock, like forty yards from is what I

1:15:33

thought. But as I started walking

1:15:35

up that I could hear them, just like right

1:15:39

next to that rock, right on the other side

1:15:41

where I couldn't see them, but I could hear their wings

1:15:43

flapping and they were gobbling, and I guess

1:15:46

they were fighting each other or something. And

1:15:49

at this point I was so close to him, I was like, well,

1:15:52

I might as well just risk it for the biscuit.

1:15:54

Yeah. And I'd almost bush racked

1:15:56

another one on the second day, just like I was walking

1:15:58

and just saw him before he saw me. He just got lucky,

1:16:01

and so I was kind of thinking I could probably

1:16:04

do that with these ones. And I'd called at him

1:16:06

so much and other people called

1:16:08

at him. I didn't know if the call would yeah, would

1:16:10

work at this point, and so

1:16:13

I get up to that rock and uh,

1:16:16

in how you're like twenty yards from

1:16:18

them? I think I think I was like ten yards from

1:16:20

at this point, so you're just like sneak right up.

1:16:22

They were like directly on the other side

1:16:24

of the rock, and the rock kind of was like a

1:16:26

it was like a triangle pretty much, and

1:16:29

on the north end of the triangle is

1:16:32

where I went. And I was like the point of the triangle

1:16:34

and I kind of stuck my hands on it, and I looked

1:16:37

around the other side and directly

1:16:39

on the other side of the triangle, probably five yards

1:16:42

off the rock, there was a

1:16:44

flock of them and I could see like four

1:16:47

or five turkeys. Now, were you not afraid you

1:16:49

were gonna spook them by peeking your head around? Well,

1:16:52

I did it like as slow as you could, and

1:16:54

I had a mask on, and I

1:16:56

didn't really realize they were that close. Yeah,

1:16:59

yeah, and they were that rock.

1:17:01

It was kind of weird. It was like the there

1:17:04

was a lower side of it, and then you go to the other

1:17:06

side and it was like four or five

1:17:08

foot the ground was four or five foot higher,

1:17:10

like there was like dirt stuck up against it. So

1:17:13

I was below him, still on that

1:17:15

rock, and I could just see I could just

1:17:17

see him right up there on that little plateau

1:17:20

there, and uh so

1:17:22

I just kind of like creep back behind the

1:17:24

rock, and I can tell

1:17:26

they're moving over towards me,

1:17:29

and so I just stick my gun up and I hear him

1:17:31

clucking, and the first turkey that pops

1:17:34

out, I could tell he was a long

1:17:36

beard. And I looked at him for a

1:17:38

really long time, even though I could have shot him,

1:17:41

just because I did not want to, yeah,

1:17:45

shoot a jake or shoot a hen or something. And

1:17:48

he started going back and forth at like

1:17:51

five yards, and finally I got

1:17:53

a really good look at him, and I could tell he was one hundred

1:17:55

percent a long beard. And about

1:17:57

that time, he sees me right

1:17:59

there in front of him, and he turns

1:18:03

and just is about to just starts

1:18:05

to run. But it was too late.

1:18:07

He was already just like I mean, I had my I

1:18:09

mean I was already hunkered down

1:18:11

on him. All I had to do is pull the trigger,

1:18:14

and uh yep, got

1:18:17

him, got him. I

1:18:20

think that's pretty good woodsmanship. Yeah, yeah,

1:18:22

and turkey know how to know not

1:18:25

to call, not to mess around.

1:18:27

I mean, I won't even go over there.

1:18:30

I don't even want to go over there. Yeah, it's just too

1:18:32

many people, you know.

1:18:34

But uh, yeah it was. It was

1:18:36

a nice, nice gobbler and cook it

1:18:38

tonight.

1:18:39

I bet there's snakes Deluxe

1:18:42

right in that area. Oh yeah, I actually found

1:18:44

one, like probably well,

1:18:47

yeah, you found the road right where I killed

1:18:49

it, probably like three hundred yards from it. Yeah.

1:18:52

A live copper head. Yeah, yeah,

1:18:54

a live one. I've

1:18:57

only been uh, I've only been struck

1:18:59

at and actually bit

1:19:02

unintentionally one time, like

1:19:04

thinking about being in a place with a lot of snakes,

1:19:06

going back to Snake's Great Turkey story.

1:19:09

One time while deer hunting and it was cool

1:19:12

in October, I had a copperhead bite

1:19:14

my rubber boot. I didn't even know it was there.

1:19:16

It's a little one, A little bitty guy just felt

1:19:18

something like tap my boot and I looked down. I was like, dad,

1:19:20

got that thing bit me? Anyway,

1:19:23

I was thinking about bear out there and

1:19:25

Snake Country. Yep, we are

1:19:27

all the time. Hey, thank

1:19:29

you Brad for coming. Yeah,

1:19:33

it starts when starts meet

1:19:35

Either live tour is on. If

1:19:38

you're listening to this, you're we're there. But

1:19:40

you can still buy tickets to shows. Uh

1:19:42

oh yeah, Josh made Josh Pilmaker

1:19:45

Josh Lambridge Spillmaker made ten did

1:19:48

did this strike you as odd when he walked in there in

1:19:52

hats?

1:19:54

This guy loves scoons your.

1:19:55

Nets, So yeah so

1:19:57

Josh Josh Lambridge

1:20:00

Spilmmaker made ten coonskin

1:20:03

hats that are gonna be given

1:20:05

away one at each live

1:20:08

tour event for the winner

1:20:10

of the al Hooting contest. So

1:20:12

good job, Josh, good job. But

1:20:15

yeah, Brad, thanks for coming man, thanks for bringing

1:20:17

the snakes.

1:20:18

You wind incredible

1:20:20

show.

1:20:21

And yes, yeah yeah, we're

1:20:23

gonna just have We're just gonna have to have him come back,

1:20:25

just to no doubt. It's like, hey, I'll bring every

1:20:29

time we can guess

1:20:31

yes, yes, wow,

1:20:34

great, Thanks guys,