0:01

Welcome to the

0:01

bear with me podcast where we

0:04

aim to integrate belief and

0:04

practice in the Christian life

0:17

Hey, Vanessa, Hi, Andy.

0:20

How you doing?

0:20

Great. You back? Yeah, it's it's

0:22

been. I don't know how long it's

0:22

been for everybody else out

0:25

there. But it's been like, three

0:25

weeks or a month. Yeah. Yeah,

0:28

definitely. You know, things

0:28

going on. Yeah. It's hard to

0:31

find time to get into bear with

0:31

me studios, just where we are

0:37

right now. And we're going to do

0:37

part two of the sower in the

0:41

seed, also known as parable of

0:41

the sewers, or sorry, parable,

0:46

the court types of soil he

0:46

right, or Parable of the Sower,

0:50

everyone, like I say, Fine, all

0:50

those are great. But just to

0:56

recap a little bit from last

0:56

time. So last time, we talked,

0:59

we kind of big picture and now

0:59

we're going to kind of zero in

1:02

on the actual four types of soil

1:02

kind of the progression that the

1:04

parables take, or this parable

1:04

takes. And, and last time, we

1:09

talked about this idea that God,

1:09

maybe God is more of a talker,

1:12

than we tend to think he is

1:12

chatting a lot of our Yeah, a

1:15

lot of our human experiences,

1:15

can can often feel quiet or

1:20

absent. But the sower and maybe

1:20

the Bible presents a different

1:24

picture of God as one who likes

1:24

to talk a lot. And I don't know

1:31

if we don't think we tease this

1:31

part out last time. But I had

1:34

been thinking that God does not

1:34

like to do fireworks so much as

1:40

he likes to talk. And maybe

1:40

argument propensity is to want

1:45

more of the fireworks display.

1:45

Nice. Meaning like the signs in

1:50

the wonders that obviously hit

1:50

you over the head stuff. Yeah.

1:54

And I was thinking that maybe

1:54

that we liked that, because it

1:57

takes less energy to watch a

1:57

fireworks display than it does

2:01

to listen to somebody. Talk and

2:01

try to understand them. Yeah,

2:05

right. Yeah, it's a little

2:05

harder. It takes more energy.

2:08

Yeah. Anyway. So that was one,

2:08

because remember, the sower sows

2:13

the seed everywhere, like just

2:13

reckless with the siege, selling

2:16

it in, not very good places,

2:16

having strategic expect things

2:19

to crop up. Clearly not worried

2:19

about limited resources, in

2:24

terms of the seed, right? Got to

2:24

talk her. Second, we talked

2:28

about God's word being hidden,

2:28

but at work. So not just God

2:39

isn't just at work in ways that

2:39

we get to see but often most at

2:43

work in ways we don't get to

2:43

see. So Jesus says in Luke 17,

2:48

the kingdom is coming in ways

2:48

that are not observable, which

2:52

is just sort of a

2:52

straightforward way of saying

2:55

what I think he's saying here in

2:55

the parable of the sower. Man,

2:59

God's Kingdom is active and at

2:59

work right now, in ways that you

3:04

cannot see. I love that. And

3:04

then finally, we wrapped up last

3:10

time with despite it being

3:10

hidden or not, at work behind

3:16

the scenes, God's word is

3:16

powerful and highly productive.

3:20

So it's hard, hard to see. In

3:20

seed form. impossible to miss?

3:29

At the when it when it comes up,

3:29

impossible to miss. Yes, yes.

3:33

Wilderness. Yeah. Easy to miss

3:33

than impossible to miss.

3:35

Right? Tricky.

3:35

So

3:41

this one, we want

3:41

to focus on the four types of

3:44

soil and three of these types of

3:44

soil, talk about obstacles to

3:49

this part, like for all of the

3:49

potency of God's word, there are

3:56

things that can resist it, yes.

3:56

Or keep it from being fruitful,

4:01

which is kind of a radical

4:01

concept. It is, well, we'll get

4:05

into in a minute, because this

4:05

is God's word, and it's highly

4:09

potent and powerful. And so what

4:09

are, what are the things that

4:14

that can be obstacles to this to

4:14

this active agent? And it kind

4:22

of leads to this other question

4:22

or is, or maybe this other

4:24

question kind of helps set up

4:24

this parable. If this, if this

4:30

is God's words, like if Jesus is

4:30

teaching and preaching, in the

4:34

gospels, God's words in Jesus is

4:34

God's man. God's Son, Messiah.

4:44

Why does it feel like in the

4:44

Gospel stories, it's not

4:48

working? Right, the disciples

4:48

constantly don't get it. He's

4:51

meeting up with resistance. Or

4:51

we might ask an RD if we're

4:55

Christian or even if we're not

4:55

like, Okay, well if this is if

4:58

Christianity is true, if g He

4:58

says is the real deal? And

5:01

legit, then why does it

5:01

sometimes or often feel like

5:06

Christianity isn't working,

5:06

especially in our little neck of

5:09

the world? neck of the woods or

5:09

part of the world? Why does it

5:13

seem like it's losing ground?

5:13

And maybe on its way out?

5:16

Because that's what it can feel like to a lot of people sometimes. Yeah.

5:18

Right.

5:21

So, we already

5:21

know part of the answer from

5:24

last time is that it God's word

5:24

sown does not look that

5:32

impressive. It's a small thing.

5:32

It's just a word. It's not

5:37

fireworks. It's not big and

5:37

fancy. It's just a seed. And as

5:40

soon as it's sewn or spoken, you

5:40

don't see it. It's gone. Yeah,

5:46

you don't see it anymore. For

5:46

all the world, it looks like

5:49

it's not doing anything, or

5:49

how's that done anything? I

5:52

don't know, if it's working, is

5:52

it growing? What's it doing any

5:55

isn't doing anything, I can't

5:55

see it. So but then we're gonna

6:00

get into some other elements. So

6:00

it's not just that it's

6:03

invisible. It's just that there

6:03

are things that we can do to

6:08

actively resist God's Word in

6:08

our lives and in our world. So

6:14

instead of God's Kingdom taking

6:14

root in and around us in our

6:17

lives, where peace and justice

6:17

and things about the kingdom

6:20

that we've talked about before

6:20

it God's presence to us

6:23

transformation, goodness, mercy,

6:23

where those things could take

6:26

root and grow up, and transform

6:26

and sprout, come to fruition in

6:31

our lives, and our relationships, and our world and our city, all this great stuff.

6:33

Instead of that happening, the

6:37

word gets taken away, or it

6:37

shrivels up or it gets choked

6:41

out. And we don't see any

6:41

transformation or fruit. What do

6:45

you think it's so far?

6:46

Gosh, so many

6:46

things. I mean, you're going to

6:53

talk about this, but why are

6:53

there so many obstacles? If this

6:56

is supposed to be such a potent?

6:56

Against all odds, fruitful

7:02

beyond belief? Planting or

7:02

sowing, you know? So hopefully,

7:08

you can answer that one.

7:10

Yeah, hopefully we

7:10

can. It's yeah, that's, that's,

7:15

uh, that is, I think, to really

7:15

understand the, the significance

7:21

of that is pretty is a pretty

7:21

big deal. Yeah,

7:24

that's a big,

7:25

that's a big question,

7:26

existential

7:26

question. It's kind of a way of

7:29

saying why do bad things happen?

7:29

Yeah. It's a version of that.

7:33

So why does God allow it to happen? Because if he's so powerful, His Word is so

7:35

power. Yeah. And it's such a

7:37

good thing? For sure. Yeah.

7:37

Yeah.

7:39

Why can it get

7:39

shoveled and choked? Or snatched

7:44

so easily? Yeah. There's that.

7:44

But I do love the hidden part,

7:49

like, the reality that there's

7:49

something at work behind the

7:56

scenes, I find that so hopeful

7:56

to trust that God is always

8:03

communicating and working like

8:03

there's some kind of renewal.

8:07

happening. Behind the scenes,

8:07

Howard Thurman talks about the

8:12

will to wholeness, that's kind

8:12

of in the fabric of our bodies.

8:17

It's relevant during a time of

8:17

pandemic. He just, you know,

8:21

says in his book, however, many

8:21

decades ago, that it's actually

8:25

amazing how many diseases our

8:25

bodies fight off, and how few

8:30

infections we actually succumb

8:30

to, by getting a cold, you know,

8:34

much less how many we actually

8:34

die to write. So he just says,

8:39

it's remarkable that there's

8:39

this will to wholeness in our

8:42

bodies, always at work, and that

8:42

there's a will to wholeness in

8:47

the world, and he says, That's

8:47

expressive of God's God's force

8:52

of love that's always in the

8:52

world. And so he kind of says,

8:56

wouldn't it be great if we could

8:56

live each day, relaxed at our

9:01

nerve center, because we trust

9:01

this will to wholeness? And it

9:05

will, if we could do that it

9:05

would allow us to live with

9:07

quiet enthusiasm is his phrase,

9:07

and I just love that quiet,

9:11

quiet enthusiasm, which to me

9:11

belies that idea that that God

9:16

is always at work. There's

9:16

always renewal behind the scenes

9:19

if we have ears to hear, and

9:19

eyes to see if we need some good

9:24

news. That it's there. We don't

9:24

have to move countries to find

9:28

it or change jobs or something

9:28

like that. That's what I mean is

9:33

that the accessibility is within

9:33

our grasp. Yeah, but it might we

9:38

might not think that because

9:38

it's not super obvious. Yeah.

9:43

Yeah, not what we

9:43

would expect. There's a counter

9:46

intuitiveness to it. But like

9:46

with the other parables like the

9:52

treasure hidden in the field, or

9:52

the Pearl of Great Price,

9:54

there's this. There's this

9:54

accessibility to it. That is you

10:00

maybe unexpected in some ways,

10:00

like it's there in the field and

10:05

he didn't, wasn't expecting to

10:05

find it just found treasure.

10:08

That's I've

10:08

never thought about that parable

10:10

like that. Just the discovery of

10:10

something beautiful right under

10:15

your nose or under your feet

10:15

that you didn't expect. That

10:18

sounds like the the journey of

10:18

our lives is kind of discovering

10:23

Yeah.

10:23

And that the we'll

10:23

get to this in this. When we get

10:27

to that parallel with the the

10:27

one right next with appropriate

10:29

price goes the other directions

10:29

like keep the merchant was

10:32

searching for he knew what he's

10:32

looking for. And then he found

10:35

it. So it's like Jesus put these

10:35

two back to back on purpose,

10:39

like the treasure the king of

10:39

something that you might not be

10:42

looking for. And you can stumble

10:42

over it and unexpectedly find

10:45

this great treasure. Or it's

10:45

also like this merchant who was

10:50

like he knew he knew find pearls

10:50

when he found it. It's like, oh,

10:53

yeah, that's the one. Oh,

10:55

I like that.

10:55

Both of those are there next to

10:57

each other? I can't wait to get

10:57

to that one.

10:59

I know. We're

10:59

getting ahead of ourselves. So

11:02

yeah, so let's let's jump into

11:02

this then. So this is Matthew

11:06

13. He gives the parable of the

11:06

sower. He talks about why

11:11

parables then he comes back to

11:11

the parables or in verse 18. He

11:14

explains it. When anyone hears

11:14

the word of the kingdom and does

11:17

not understand it, the evil one

11:17

comes and snatches away what has

11:20

been sown in his heart is was

11:20

sown along the path. So it's the

11:22

first sowing, it's on the path.

11:22

And the first obstacle is

11:29

understanding when anyone does

11:29

not understand it. So this

11:36

presents a little problem for

11:36

us, because it just seems so not

11:40

like God or Jesus. You're like,

11:40

sorry, you're too stupid. You

11:45

don't get it. You don't get it.

11:45

You know, your IQ isn't high

11:49

enough.

11:49

I don't like

11:49

that one. You don't? Yeah, you

11:51

don't like that? No, you don't

11:51

understand it.

11:55

Yeah, so it

11:55

doesn't sound right. And it

12:00

isn't. So Jesus, let's say one,

12:00

two says to enter the kingdom,

12:05

you must become like a child. Yeah.

12:07

Right, and the

12:07

foolishness of God.

12:11

So what's going

12:11

on? One way to understand this

12:15

is to know that that knowledge

12:15

and understanding in the

12:18

biblical setting has to do with

12:18

personal knowledge, like an

12:21

experiential knowledge of, of,

12:21

of something, or someone. So

12:27

Isaiah, who's often in the

12:27

background of the Gospels, he's

12:31

in the background here, he's

12:31

just been quoted in the previous

12:33

paragraph. So he's in the

12:33

background of the stories. And

12:37

he, he uses the same term in the

12:37

Septuagint, versus a Greek

12:42

version of the Old Testament,

12:42

the same term for understand and

12:46

what he meant by it. So here's

12:46

something from the first chapter

12:48

of his Isaiah, he says this, The

12:48

ox knows its owner, and the

12:54

donkey, its masters crib. But

12:54

Israel has not known me. And the

12:59

people have not understood me.

12:59

So he's this, this relational

13:05

knowledge sort of dimension to

13:05

what's happening here. is

13:09

understood in Isaiah one here is

13:09

paralleled with, with known,

13:13

which here means personal

13:13

knowledge, not intellectual

13:15

understanding. So it's kind of

13:15

like our relationships. Yeah.

13:19

Don't you know me, Vanessa? Yes.

13:19

I thought you knew me. Right.

13:23

Right. That kind of you don't

13:23

understand. stand

13:25

me. Yeah. Not

13:25

like you don't intellectually

13:28

follow me. Yeah. Yes. But you're

13:28

not grasping with what you know

13:34

of me. You're not grasping.

13:35

It's not because

13:35

we're too dumb, is because maybe

13:38

we're not invested in the

13:38

relationship. Right, or we don't

13:41

want to hear it. We've got some

13:41

internal resistance to

13:47

acknowledging what what the

13:47

other person is about or what

13:51

they're saying. There's internal

13:51

resistance at work. And I think

13:55

this fits this passage, because

13:55

that's literally what Jesus was

13:59

just talking about in the

13:59

previous paragraph, which we

14:01

haven't gotten to yet. We'll try

14:01

to get to that with with one of

14:03

these episodes on the purpose of

14:03

parables where Jesus talks about

14:06

why he's speaking in parables.

14:06

But this is the this is the

14:10

setting. There's internal

14:10

resistance to what's to who this

14:16

person is and what's being said.

14:16

So this is the seed that fell on

14:20

the hard path. This is the Word

14:20

of God that falls on a hardened

14:24

or resistant part, oh, man, he

14:24

doesn't want to hear it. or

14:30

participate in fast forward to

14:30

Isaiah seven from Isaiah one,

14:34

where God is warning the king of

14:34

Israel at that time not to fear

14:37

the nations but to rather trust

14:37

God. So he's talking about these

14:42

other nations. The head of

14:42

Ephrem is Samaria. The head of

14:46

Samaria is the son of vermillion. So he's talking about the country, the city and

14:47

in the king, if you do not

14:51

believe, neither shall you

14:51

understand. So profit is

14:57

pairing, understanding with

14:57

belief or trusting loyalty? If

15:04

you don't trust me, you're not

15:04

going to understand me.

15:08

Trust is a good

15:08

replacement for understand in

15:11

that original part of the

15:11

parable, I feel like then

15:16

yeah, like, as

15:16

trusting as a prerequisite to

15:20

comprehending, understanding?

15:20

Yeah. Right. If we don't we have

15:25

these in our relationships, we

15:25

don't trust one another. Yeah,

15:28

then it's hard. It can be hard

15:28

to understand. Yeah, to wrap our

15:32

minds around it. Where someone

15:32

else is coming from why they're

15:35

doing the things they're doing.

15:39

So do you I

15:39

relate with this, like, I know,

15:43

this is true about me internal,

15:43

the idea of of being resistant

15:48

to something or, like kind of a

15:48

hardness to my demeanor, or

15:55

something like that in

15:55

relationships. But can you think

16:00

of what this looks like? Like

16:00

what what does it look like? For

16:06

Andy? When times when you're

16:06

like, on that hard path? If

16:10

that's the right way to even

16:10

interpret the parable?

16:13

Like in personal

16:13

relationships? Yeah. Yeah, but I

16:18

do know this, I mean, that. So

16:18

my experience, and I don't know

16:21

if I can think of a specific

16:21

one. But in general is when I

16:26

work, like, when there's maybe

16:26

strain in a relationship, or if

16:33

something isn't working out

16:33

because of behaviors, or I just

16:37

don't, I'm not on the same page

16:37

with this person. I know that

16:40

going back to the roots of,

16:40

okay, if I care about this

16:45

person I want to try to

16:45

understand in that usually moves

16:49

me towards work, because

16:49

sometimes they just don't want

16:51

to do the work of understanding

16:51

or it's you can think of I mean,

17:00

a great example, for a lot of us

17:00

is political differences. Like

17:04

we have our political leanings,

17:04

and we have a hard time

17:09

understanding someone who's on a

17:09

different political divide. But

17:12

if there's somebody we care

17:12

about, then you start to Okay.

17:17

Can I see it from their

17:17

perspective? Yeah. But it's

17:20

because of the caring part.

17:20

Right, and the investment in a

17:25

relationship part. If I don't

17:25

force myself to go in that

17:28

direction, then I'm not going to

17:28

do the work of, okay, maybe I

17:32

need Can I read with a bit more

17:32

charity? Or can I do a little

17:36

bit more work to try to understand where they're coming from?

17:38

Yeah, that's a great example.

17:43

Yeah. So So I say,

17:43

pairs, this understanding with

17:49

this trusting loyalty? Yeah.

17:49

overlapping with that personal

17:53

type of knowledge that we're

17:53

talking about? Yeah. But it adds

17:56

this dimension of commitment,

17:56

right, I'm committed to this

17:59

person, therefore, I work harder

17:59

to understand. Or if I know

18:05

them, well, if I'm committed to

18:05

them in a way, where I've gotten

18:08

to know them, well, then it's it

18:08

becomes easier for me, oh, I

18:10

unders. I see why she's seeing

18:10

it this way. Or he's saying

18:14

those sorts of things.

18:16

Yeah. Right.

18:21

So Jesus is talked

18:21

about in the previous paragraph

18:24

that we haven't gotten to yet, because it's the purpose of parables. He's told them that

18:26

you are His disciples, he's just

18:30

talking to His disciples there.

18:30

So he goes away from the crowds,

18:32

they say, Why are you speaking

18:32

in parables? And he says,

18:34

basically, you are all insiders.

18:34

You're with me? You know, me,

18:39

you're learning to trust me

18:39

that's worth quite a lot,

18:42

actually, more than you think

18:42

probably. Because without that,

18:46

believing trust, it's actually

18:46

impossible to comprehend what

18:51

I'm talking about. It's

18:51

absolutely impossible to

18:53

comprehend the kingdom of God.

18:53

Maybe because it's so different.

18:58

Yeah. So it's so

18:58

counterintuitive to the way that

19:01

our world works. That that would

19:01

take a lot of trust. To see

19:07

things so differently. I think

19:07

there's gotta be something like

19:10

that going on. Yeah. And these

19:10

passages. And the Word of God

19:15

cannot grow in you, it can't

19:15

even penetrate the hardness of

19:18

your heart. That's what's

19:18

amazing, though, it gets back to

19:23

what we're kind of talking

19:23

about. For God's word is so

19:26

powerful. Like we're just

19:26

getting to the biblical

19:29

worldview here. Genesis one,

19:29

God's word responsible for all

19:33

of creation, literally

19:33

everything we see, and touch and

19:37

feel and know. Right? Light

19:37

land, heavens, earth stars, sun,

19:43

moon, fish, animals, humans, all

19:43

but by the power of God's Word.

19:49

So in the Bible says, By God's

19:49

word, he raises up and opposes

19:54

kingdoms

19:55

is the same sewing Word,

19:58

Word will not

19:58

return empty but will will

20:00

accomplish its work and Isaiah

20:00

is like you're not finding

20:04

something more powerful in the

20:04

biblical worldview than the Word

20:07

of God what He says happens

20:12

except here

20:12

where it's very precarious are

20:17

very susceptible to

20:19

yes obstacles well

20:19

I mean even in this whole

20:21

parable the words ultimately

20:21

going to succeed with this

20:24

ridiculous return on investment

20:24

but yet to your point, God

20:27

invested the human heart that

20:27

seat of our will and our loyalty

20:31

don't think emotions that was

20:31

the kidneys in the, in the, in

20:35

their worldview, heart was will

20:35

and loyalty okay. Yeah, belief

20:45

in loyalty and intellect as

20:45

well. So he got invested the

20:51

human heart with such dignity

20:51

and power that he allowed it to

20:57

not be overwritten by his word

20:57

that it can resist and even the

21:04

power of God's word we're

21:04

allowed to resist it

21:14

God has given it the power to

21:14

resist it if we choose radical I

21:23

think that's just an important

21:23

point because it does get back

21:27

to you why so much was why so

21:27

much evil in the world? Why is

21:30

there so much dissidents? And

21:30

why does God allow it? He's

21:34

whether you agree with him or

21:34

not. He's invested the human

21:37

heart with with a great with

21:37

that ability to resist like that

21:41

was important to him. And you

21:41

start thinking of well, what's

21:45

the alternative? Well, then you

21:45

start to lose some things, don't

21:49

you in terms of your human

21:49

dignity and freedom? Yeah, that

21:52

time God feel that God

21:52

prioritized, I'm going to

21:57

preserve that. And we're really

21:57

going to let them choose even

22:01

though it's going to cost a lot

22:01

it's gonna be super painful and

22:03

hard. I'm not going to game this

22:03

from the start. In other words,

22:08

just say, well, I'll just

22:08

override I'll just press the

22:11

override button if I don't like

22:11

how things are going in that

22:15

isn't that nuts? Yeah, it is. So

22:15

kind of gives you a scary sense

22:21

of our own our own power in that

22:21

sense to resist such goodness

22:26

and beauty and kingdom stuff.

22:26

Yeah. He wants our trust and

22:36

loyalty and he's not going to

22:36

cheat to get it he's put that

22:41

limit on his own power in this

22:41

in this scenario. Because you

22:47

think well, God can do anything

22:47

why does he just you know, yeah,

22:50

x y Zed. You know? I don't know.

22:50

It's like well, but if he's he's

22:56

he wants to preserve this thing

22:56

over here and give us true

22:58

autonomy in that sense then he's

22:58

got to do it a different way he

23:02

can't just strong arm us into

23:02

the kingdom

23:04

yeah

23:08

Wow doesn't want

23:08

to fill his kingdom with people

23:10

who are like I don't really want

23:10

to be here so this is the word

23:17

that falls on us when we resist

23:17

when we refuse to come to Jesus

23:20

interesting loyalty. We fail to

23:20

know Him in His saving power and

23:24

understand Him in His teaching

23:24

on God's good kingdom. That's it

23:31

that's what I wanted to say about that first one.

23:35

That's all I

23:35

think about I kind of always

23:41

pictured the with the snatching.

23:41

I always pictured like a crow.

23:45

Yeah, you're right. And we didn't really talk about that

23:47

though. Does it

23:47

have a burden? Oh, no wonder

23:51

does the evil one

23:51

comes and snatches away what has

23:53

been sown in his heart?

23:57

Yeah, it feels

23:57

like it feels pretty exposed,

24:01

just like my connotations with

24:01

you know, this soil or this

24:06

place that this seed is sown.

24:06

That it's some

24:09

Yeah, if it's not

24:09

received it will be taken from

24:11

you. Yeah.

24:14

And now I'm

24:14

hearing that consent that you're

24:18

saying God prioritize says like

24:18

our capacity to consent or

24:23

resist. So there's this like

24:23

mechanism of consenting that

24:29

didn't happen between the soil

24:29

and this seed. And so there it

24:36

was left exposed to being

24:36

snatched. So the question, one

24:45

of the questions would be, what

24:45

does it look like to receive or

24:49

consent even if we're not there

24:49

yet? Like even if we do feel

24:55

resistance, or confusion or

24:55

something It made me think that

25:01

we've talked about this prayer

25:01

before, but I want to want

25:04

prayer is such a great option.

25:04

When we're not there yet, you

25:09

know, yeah, like, I want to want

25:09

to trust you in this life

25:13

decision coming up. But I'm

25:13

pretty scared because I feel

25:17

like I'm gonna be asked to do

25:17

something I don't want to do or

25:22

whatever. The profession there

25:22

is,

25:24

right? And if yes,

25:24

but I mean, the whole Bible just

25:29

puts such a priority on our

25:29

humility. Right? Yeah. Because

25:34

it's that's kind of overlap with

25:34

that posture of our of our

25:38

heart.

25:40

Yeah. I feel

25:40

like we go on to the next one,

25:45

because more might come about

25:45

this one kind of in, in

25:50

relationship with the other ones.

25:52

Yes, that's good.

25:52

So that's the first one, it was

25:55

the seat on the path. Resistance

25:55

to God's words. The second one

26:08

has to do with with the root

26:08

system. So the stuff that's

26:11

happening underground. So think

26:11

of roots as conduits of water

26:17

and nutrients. The stronger the

26:17

roots, the stronger the plant.

26:23

Jesus warns next that even those

26:23

who do receive the word that is

26:28

the trust and believe they can

26:28

still struggle if they do not

26:31

have roots within themselves. In

26:31

other words, it appears that

26:35

God's word can be received and

26:35

not kept. Soon as things get

26:41

hard because of the word,

26:41

because of what was said, or

26:45

what was sown. That person

26:45

withers up where they fall away.

26:51

So this often gets translated

26:51

flips, translated, tribulation,

26:58

the Greek word is flips. This

26:58

means crushing pressure is a

27:03

better word than tribulation,

27:03

yeah, crushing pressure, it's a

27:05

lot easier to imagine. It's not

27:05

just like what we might think of

27:11

if you've heard of being

27:11

persecuted for your faith. Yeah,

27:15

that's probably definitely part

27:15

of it. But it's a lot bigger and

27:18

broader than that. It's the

27:18

pressure that comes when two

27:21

opposing kingdoms collide. So

27:21

think about the goodness of

27:25

God's kingdom, and coming in its

27:25

values and what it's about

27:31

coming into collision with the

27:31

kingdom, that of this world that

27:35

were a part of our, our cultural

27:35

moment. And so I would argue

27:42

that gets us here in North

27:42

America, as sure as it gets

27:44

anybody in the world might look

27:44

very different. Feel it very

27:47

differently. But there is a cost

27:47

to your trusting obedience to

27:53

Jesus. We live in a world in a

27:53

kingdom that is definitely

27:57

hostile and at odds with the

27:57

kingdom of God on some

28:00

significant points. So if that's

28:00

true, then we need something

28:07

that sustains us that feeds us

28:07

that strengthens us, in the

28:11

midst of this collision, this

28:11

crushing pressure. So these

28:14

roots that conduits of of life

28:14

and nutrients, and life

28:18

sustaining water, it reminds me

28:18

of John 15, where Jesus uses

28:23

another image for this similar

28:23

idea, I am the vine, he says,

28:26

and you are the branches Remain

28:26

in me and you will bear much

28:30

fruit. So I think we're meant to

28:30

see these roots as habits of

28:35

devotion. means by which we

28:35

remain IN JESUS, how do we stay

28:40

connected to this source of

28:40

life. Paul says in First

28:47

Timothy, the love of money is

28:47

the root of all kinds of evil or

28:50

a root of all kinds of evil. So

28:50

you kind of get this thing that

28:54

helps the negative image but it

28:54

helps with this idea of why our

28:58

roots in that image, their their

28:58

love or devotion to one thing.

29:05

That's the root of all kinds of

29:05

other things. If you are loving

29:09

and devoted towards one thing

29:09

that serves as a as a input that

29:15

can lead to all sorts of other fruit, whether it's good fruit or bad fruit. So if the root

29:17

speaks of a devotion to God in

29:25

Jesus, it leads to all sorts of

29:25

fruit. We've seen this parable,

29:30

but the roots must remain

29:30

strong, or the crushing pressure

29:33

of climbing kingman's will be

29:33

too much for us, overwhelm us,

29:37

one of us feel that. So we can

29:37

think of the habits of Christian

29:41

devotion, community and worship.

29:41

Prayer, whether it's alone or

29:47

with others, regular reading and

29:47

study of God's words written to

29:52

us in the Bible, meditation

29:52

reflection on on the Bible or

29:57

listening for God's voice in our

29:57

lives. We've talked about A lot

30:01

of accountability and mutual

30:01

encouragement and Christian

30:03

community. Just to name a very

30:03

few. There's tons of them. Yeah.

30:08

Right. And they can look

30:08

different. So these practices

30:11

lay down roots that connect us

30:11

to the source of life, and

30:14

sustainability in the midst of

30:14

the crushing pressure that we

30:16

find ourselves in. So, this is

30:16

one way to think about

30:24

overcoming, if we think about

30:24

these in terms of obstacles,

30:27

okay, there's humility and

30:27

trust, there's habits of

30:31

devotion, how do I make sure

30:31

I'm, I'm plugged into or

30:36

connected in these ways, to this

30:36

to this source of life to Jesus.

30:45

Knowing that, if we can overcome

30:45

these obstacles, then seeds just

30:52

grow. So it's not like we have

30:52

to work hard at the growing of

30:56

the thing. We just have to find

30:56

the practices and the positions

31:01

and the postures, and maybe one

31:01

part imagination, of sting of

31:07

just staying connected at the

31:07

roots, which I think is an

31:11

easier way for me to think about

31:11

it. Yeah. Instead of going to

31:15

the gym to workout. Which I

31:15

don't do Yeah. It's, it's a,

31:26

it's a putting myself in a

31:26

position of space. I mean,

31:28

there's some overlap with that,

31:28

because that is a habit. And it

31:31

is this is building a certain

31:31

kind of muscle. Yeah, but it's

31:35

not a it's not I need to make

31:35

the fruit grow. It's like, yeah,

31:40

will take care of itself. If you

31:40

just, if you just work these

31:44

habits, simple habits, I think,

31:44

into our daily or weekly lives,

31:49

or monthly lives, or whatever,

31:49

whatever the case may be.

31:53

Yeah, that's,

31:54

I know, you've got some thoughts on

31:55

Oh, yeah, I do.

31:55

Where do I start? When you

32:00

talked about, you know, this

32:00

soil. So the previous soil is

32:06

kind of about receiving

32:06

consenting to accepting like,

32:10

there's a hardness and it

32:10

doesn't actually unfold the

32:13

seed. And then it can get

32:13

snatched up. And then you said

32:16

about this one, it's possible to

32:16

receive it, but not to keep it.

32:23

And that made me think of the

32:23

idea of observance. You know, in

32:28

Deuteronomy, when it talks about

32:28

the Shamal, like Love the Lord

32:32

your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, love your neighbor as yourself, and

32:33

talk about these things when you

32:36

walk on the road. And when you

32:36

lie down, it uses the word

32:40

observe somewhere in there, you

32:40

know, observe these things,

32:44

which reminds me of a holiday,

32:44

how we observe holidays. So the

32:50

idea of keeping something and

32:50

observing something just reminds

32:54

me of that way of being human,

32:54

where we need the set apart,

33:00

times within the year, within

33:00

the week within the day, where

33:05

we observe what it is that we

33:05

ascribe to, or believe or love.

33:11

And it's not like a once and

33:11

done thing, you don't want time

33:14

in your life, you have

33:14

Christmas, and that and then

33:16

you're good to go. You know,

33:16

it's like a regular part of our

33:20

lives to observe Christmas. So

33:20

that's one way for me to think

33:26

about the roots. And this

33:26

tension between the effort

33:31

required to make fruit grow

33:31

versus the effort required to

33:35

create space, so that we don't

33:35

fill up our lives with the

33:41

things that the kingdom of the

33:41

world, you know, fills up our

33:45

lives with. Stephen, my husband

33:45

is reading a book by his

33:50

favorite author Johann Hari,

33:50

called something about focus,

33:55

like losing focus or finding

33:55

focus or, but Johann Hari is a

33:59

journalist and has written these

33:59

really unique. Or he talks about

34:05

things that are very common,

34:05

like when the first one is about

34:08

addiction. Second book was about

34:08

depression, and he sees them

34:11

from these really unique vantage

34:11

points. So this one is about our

34:15

inability to stay focused. And

34:15

the context switching and that

34:20

happens so much. So this is a

34:20

this is not talking about, like

34:24

how to be a Christian, but just

34:24

from the episode I listened to

34:29

describing the book, he talks

34:29

about, you know, the need for

34:34

mind wandering spaces in our

34:34

lives, like walks where our mind

34:39

wanders, instead of having all

34:39

the input that we have this is

34:43

reminded me of our Cal Newport

34:43

Naomie idea with technology, how

34:51

it things just are coming into

34:51

us so often, like we're working

34:56

on something and then we get a

34:56

text and we just think like I'm

34:58

gonna check the text, no big

34:58

deal. Oh, you know, I might need

35:00

to know something. But the cost

35:00

of check, checking that text,

35:05

and returning to our focus is,

35:05

is a lot bigger than we think it

35:09

is. And so his idea of these

35:09

mind wandering spaces preserving

35:15

them, that reminds me a lot of

35:15

the idea of discipleship or

35:19

spiritual formation. It, it

35:19

doesn't seem like a lot of

35:23

effort. It's a different kind of

35:23

effort. It is effort to preserve

35:29

for him to preserve space in his

35:29

month, and in his week to have

35:33

these mind wandering walks where

35:33

integration happens, inspiration

35:36

happens, problem solving

35:36

happens. That's what it's like

35:40

in spiritual formation. It's the

35:40

effort to create space. Yeah,

35:44

where that kind of integration,

35:44

internalization can happen. So

35:50

we don't do that, that big work

35:50

like the heavy lifting, but we

35:55

can. Sometimes we stumble upon

35:55

it in the field, and it just

35:59

happens to us and we weren't

35:59

trying at all. But overall, the

36:03

main invitation I feel like to

36:03

us as humans is are you going to

36:07

create some

36:08

space? Yeah, it's

36:08

the it's the Sabbath observance.

36:10

Yeah. I mean, that was one day

36:10

and seven. But the principle is

36:13

like, creating these protecting

36:13

these spaces. So you like a bird

36:17

sanctuary or wildlife urge, you

36:17

know, refuge or something where

36:21

these things are not allowed.

36:21

You can't hunt here. Yeah, don't

36:25

bring your guns here. This is a

36:25

safe place to kind of preserve.

36:29

Yeah, wildness. And, and I think

36:29

we have the ability to do the

36:36

same thing with our day or our

36:36

week, or just fine. Okay, what's

36:39

Where's where do I get called my

36:39

half hour walk, and just without

36:44

my phone or things that will

36:44

tend to distract me? And just

36:49

think, or just meditate and

36:49

reflect on one truth about who

36:55

God is, and, and, and who he is,

36:55

in my life, what he's doing, or

37:00

whatever the thing is, yeah. And

37:00

these that I think part of the

37:04

trick of these things is they're

37:04

not, they're not measured,

37:07

they're not super measurable in

37:07

and of themselves. Yeah, they're

37:10

not, they're not the fruit. And

37:10

we tend to feel good about our

37:18

fruit. And I think we, I think

37:18

one of the mistakes that we

37:25

make, or a common mistake that

37:25

we can make in our spiritual

37:29

lives or in our lives, don't

37:29

forget, I said, the word

37:31

spiritual in our lives is that

37:31

we try to grow upside down

37:36

trees, were the we're trying to

37:36

get our sense of worth identity

37:40

from our fruit. We're trying to

37:40

use our fruit as our source of

37:44

who we are, but fruit is for

37:44

others. And when we mess that

37:52

up, then it's like we're trying

37:52

to force fruit to grow. We're

37:56

trying to like really sell our

37:56

fruit to ourselves as much as

37:59

anybody else. Say, I'm good

37:59

because of this fruit. Whereas

38:02

the biblical image is, from

38:02

Psalm one and all over the place

38:06

is, and here in Matthew 13. Is

38:06

the roots are hidden

38:11

underground. But those is that's

38:11

our source. And they're not very

38:15

measurable. They're not things

38:15

that people see. Yeah. But

38:23

that's where we get our

38:23

identity. And that's where we,

38:26

that's what tells us who we are,

38:26

and whether our fruit turns out

38:30

good or not. And so the more we

38:30

can learn to forget about the

38:35

fruit, don't care about the

38:35

fruit. You don't even let your

38:38

left don't know what your right

38:38

hand is doing since Jesus and

38:41

when you're doing your good

38:41

deeds. Yeah, like, don't even

38:44

care about it. Yeah. Focus,

38:44

invest in the roots. That's

38:49

where your work is. Yeah. And

38:49

it's for because this is my life

38:54

for a preacher that is spending

38:54

time where nobody sees you,

39:00

doing the study, the

39:00

preparation, getting to go

39:05

deeper into the Bible, because

39:05

that's what part of what your

39:08

job is what you have time for.

39:08

But no one measures that I'm not

39:14

filling out any time sheets to

39:14

say I did this this week, and

39:17

showing it off to people. It's

39:17

just hidden somewhere, and it

39:21

will, it will come out or not

39:21

over the course of time, but you

39:26

can. But that's true of all our

39:26

lives, isn't it to be a preacher

39:29

or a pastor, for that to be true

39:29

in terms of your own

39:32

fruitfulness in the lives of

39:32

your family, or your friends or

39:35

your co workers or anyone you

39:35

come into contact with will what

39:39

is the nature of the fruit that

39:39

you will have on display? Yeah.

39:43

And where are you getting?

39:43

What's your source to get that

39:48

fruit because that's gonna make

39:48

all the difference? Yeah. That's

39:52

a difficult shift for us. I

39:52

think there is not getting our

39:56

worth and identity and

39:56

enoughness from What fruit we're

40:01

offering, it's hidden, it's

40:01

deeper underground. In this

40:04

parable, it's what's happening

40:04

underneath. And where am I?

40:08

Where am I getting my life source from?

40:11

There is

40:11

something freeing about it, too.

40:13

It's difficult because it's

40:13

really counter intuitive.

40:16

Difficult because it's not measure, but it's also freeing because it's not

40:18

measured. Right? It reminds me

40:20

of this just for me, Yeah, yours

40:20

just be in this God moment, or

40:25

this, this personal thing? Yeah.

40:29

It also reminds

40:29

me of people, friends who have a

40:33

big presence on social media for

40:33

their work, you know, or their,

40:37

whatever they do. And just the

40:37

weight they talk about of, of

40:41

needing to always be looking for

40:41

content. You know, they're in

40:45

their, at their children's lives

40:45

and the craft they did in the

40:49

walk on the Sabbath. It's kind

40:49

of hard, it seems like to

40:52

differentiate between, am I

40:52

doing this because of the

40:56

content it will give me? And

40:56

what I'll be able to post

41:00

because of it, or am I doing it

41:00

kind of as an end in itself?

41:04

Because, you know, I remember

41:04

Josh talking about that on

41:08

sabbatical, like taking

41:08

pictures, gorgeous pictures in

41:11

the Yukon, not to use them in a

41:11

sermon or anything just for his

41:16

life and his enjoyment, and his

41:16

sense of vocation as a person.

41:21

So there's it that sounds like a

41:21

crushing weight, when there is a

41:27

lot of confusion there between

41:27

the fruit like the content and

41:33

motivation, or however you say

41:33

that. And it reminds me of the

41:36

last episode on the sower. And

41:36

one takeaway for me was, was

41:43

like, I could make so many more

41:43

mistakes. Something about this

41:47

makes me think, there, it's okay

41:47

to make mistakes. Like, the

41:53

consequences don't feel it, the

41:53

stakes don't feel as high. And

41:57

when we're talking about it like

41:57

this, that sounds fraying too,

42:01

when you're trying to curate your fruit, for example, you can't afford to

42:03

have one that's shriveled or

42:07

when you're talking about root

42:07

systems. They're gnarled they're

42:11

all over the place. It doesn't

42:11

matter what they look like,

42:13

yeah. How far down? Can we go?

42:13

How far out? Can we go? Yeah.

42:19

And just take in what is on

42:19

offer. And what's on offer is

42:26

nutrient rich, soil with

42:26

everything you need, and more

42:31

like, the image is abundance all

42:31

through the Bible, God has more

42:37

than enough for us if we're

42:37

willing to invest in this part.

42:43

Right? This part that doesn't

42:43

get measured, not just not just

42:46

the measuring that what do other

42:46

people think about me? Oh,

42:48

that's a big one, especially for

42:48

us nines, but, but also just

42:52

what am I? What am I doing with

42:52

my life? What am I producing,

42:55

even even for me, or for my

42:55

family, or that sort of thing?

42:58

It's like, those are really

42:58

good, right things and good

43:00

things to be concerned about.

43:00

But the principle remains, if

43:05

we're not investing in the root

43:05

system, it doesn't matter. It

43:09

almost doesn't matter how hard

43:09

we're working on some level.

43:12

It's, it's you're not you're

43:12

gonna it's gonna be a poverty

43:15

mentality. Like I can't get

43:15

enough can't do enough.

43:19

It's rearranging

43:19

deck chairs on the Titanic. No,

43:21

it's It's back to

43:21

he has his back to Jesus saying,

43:25

seek this thing. First, seek

43:25

those clothes, food shut, you

43:31

know, all those things are

43:31

important. But if you seek this

43:35

thing, first kingdom of God

43:35

first. All these things will be

43:40

added to you as well. That was a

43:40

radical promise that I can't

43:45

make to you. Yeah. But I'm

43:45

thankful that I didn't. Yes,

43:50

that's what that's what Jesus is

43:50

saying is on offer here. I know

43:54

it's risky. And but at some

43:54

point, I say, Okay, God, I'm

44:00

gonna Okay. Okay. I'm gonna

44:00

trust you with that. And I'm

44:03

gonna start to build in spaces

44:03

to work on my root system.

44:08

Good, Andy.

44:08

Okay, one idea before we move on

44:12

to the next one. This is the

44:12

last obstacle coming up. So when

44:16

I was thinking about what does

44:16

it mean to observe? To keep the

44:22

word or observe it like a

44:22

holiday, it reminded me that I

44:27

go in and out of these seasons

44:27

of trying centering prayer, you

44:31

know, which is like, a way of

44:31

praying silently. So not coming

44:36

up with any words or anything.

44:36

But setting a timer for 20

44:40

minutes and saying, I'm just

44:40

going to be here. I'm not going

44:45

to try to focus on the fruit or

44:45

if I feel good from this, or if

44:49

I have good thoughts during this

44:49

or if I stay blank during this.

44:53

The idea is not to stay blank.

44:53

So I've been doing this for

44:57

years and there's just different

44:57

seasons of how In a different

45:00

kind of metaphor for what that's

45:00

like, because it, I just know,

45:04

it's good for me. So there's

45:04

something about it that is very

45:06

good for me. Probably my

45:06

perfectionism because it's a

45:09

very like, there's nothing to

45:09

do. So last week that I've been

45:15

doing it, what's come to mind,

45:15

as I'm sitting there and just

45:20

returning, like, every time I

45:20

realize I'm off wandering,

45:23

thinking about something I need

45:23

to do or worried about

45:25

something, or rehashing a

45:25

conversation in my head, and I

45:28

just come back to, alright, I'm

45:28

just sitting in God's presence.

45:34

What's come up for me is

45:34

thinking, what I'm doing here

45:37

silently, with my eyes closed

45:37

facing the window facing the

45:40

sun, is I'm just letting God

45:40

have a little bit of airtime.

45:45

Because the rest of my day, God

45:45

doesn't really get a word in

45:50

edgewise, in a way, I don't

45:50

actually believe that. But as

45:55

soon as I get into my to do list

45:55

and on email, and working on

45:58

stuff, and having a kid and

45:58

being with neighbors, it feels

46:03

like this is this is the little

46:03

moment in my day, where I'm

46:06

going to say, I do actually

46:06

believe that the reality of God

46:09

is the most real thing ever.

46:09

It's not gonna seem like that.

46:14

For if an alien was here, you

46:14

know, they would think like,

46:17

What are you talking about your

46:17

emails very real, it's like

46:20

calling to your texts are very

46:20

real, you need to eat, it's very

46:23

real, what you're gonna do with

46:23

your life is very real. But that

46:28

20 minutes of just returning

46:28

silently, my attention and

46:33

saying, I'll give you some

46:33

airtime like that this is this

46:37

20 minutes is for the reality of

46:37

God, to observe it. I can't do

46:42

anything, but just observe it

46:42

and hope that that affects the

46:46

rest of my day. But that's my

46:46

one example. Yeah,

46:49

that's good

46:49

example. I think we're working

46:52

on new website that bear with

46:52

me, yeah, we're going out for a

46:55

while. But I would like us to

46:55

get to a point where, where we

47:00

get that all up and running. And

47:00

because I think examples are

47:05

helpful or in and I just imagine

47:05

people could feel overwhelmed,

47:11

like, well, I don't know where

47:11

you guys get this time. It's

47:14

like, Well, really, you could

47:14

just start with 15 minutes, if

47:19

you could find 15 minutes, or 30

47:19

minutes in a week. What would

47:24

you do with like, I imagined of

47:24

putting up a blog post like that

47:29

mostly written by you? Where,

47:29

where you said, if you have 15

47:32

minutes a week, here's a couple

47:32

things you could try. Yeah, half

47:35

an hour and a week. Yeah, if you

47:35

have 15 minutes a day, here's

47:37

some things you could do if you

47:37

had five minutes a day or

47:40

something like that an hour you

47:40

know, it's like here's some

47:44

things is not you know, I think

47:44

that could be that could be

47:48

really useful thing. I love that

47:48

because sometimes I just need a

47:52

step like just get me started

47:52

Yeah, some training wheels we

47:54

have so give me a step by step

47:54

and then and then I can kind of

47:57

learn what we're you know how it

47:57

works and all that sort of

48:00

thing. So stay tuned stay sound

48:00

maybe that'll get us a actually

48:06

making on this some back to that

48:06

okay. last obstacle ready? Are

48:10

we ready? So we've had the

48:10

resistance the personal

48:18

allegiance insiders, outsiders

48:18

like are you with Jesus or not?

48:23

Because that does make a

48:23

difference. And and, you know,

48:29

the Bible counts that counts

48:29

humility in our favor. So even

48:32

those who like I don't want to

48:32

overstate it because there's in

48:36

the Bible is people who don't

48:36

know Jesus, but they have the

48:38

right posture, and that makes

48:38

all the difference. So don't

48:42

just think people who go to church who don't go to church I don't think it's quite like

48:44

that. Yeah, I don't think that's

48:47

what's what's happening here.

48:47

But there is something about

48:51

about stumbling upon this

48:51

treasure and holding on to it in

48:55

in in getting the wisdom and

48:55

insight from it. Okay, last one

48:59

competing allegiances. This

48:59

third, I said first one

49:07

resistance. Second one keeping

49:07

system system working on your

49:12

root system, third, one,

49:12

competing allegiances.

49:22

A strong temptation for

49:22

competing allegiances. God's

49:26

word can be heard. It can be

49:26

received, and then it can get

49:31

choked out. So, Jesus says

49:31

specifically the cares of this

49:40

world and the deceitfulness of

49:40

riches like weeds that choke out

49:46

the plant. These are competitors

49:46

for our allegiance. Tell me

49:50

about it. There are all sorts of

49:50

gospels out there. Lots of good

49:55

news.

49:57

I like that idea.

49:58

Lots of good news.

49:58

As you said, We're constan We

50:00

are being bombarded with stuff.

50:00

Yeah, with messages how this

50:04

thing's gonna change your life

50:04

that thing's gonna change your

50:06

skin. This thing's gonna change

50:06

your everything, whatever.

50:10

Everything constantly

50:10

advertising and marketing for

50:17

our very souls attention. Yes,

50:17

it's spiritual. Yeah. It's

50:21

spiritual was super holes just

50:21

on all those ads yeah that they

50:25

spent billions of dollars on or

50:25

however much sounds dramatic but

50:29

that's I think that's the aim of

50:29

all good marketing and

50:32

advertising Yeah, battle for

50:32

your soul. How can we find the

50:36

good life? How can we put

50:36

salvation in a bottle or on a

50:40

screen or in an experience? So

50:40

we're always doing that we're

50:45

all experts at envisioning the

50:45

kind of life and lifestyle that

50:50

will be our ultimate meaning

50:50

that will really fulfill us.

50:55

Give us ultimate meaning and

50:55

significance, tell us who we

50:58

are, and why we're good, why

50:58

we're enough, all that stuff.

51:03

And then there's the means to

51:03

get that money's the popular

51:06

ones so popular that Jesus

51:06

actually calls it out

51:09

specifically, with cares of the

51:09

world. More generic cares of the

51:16

world. And just like God's word

51:16

is everywhere, but hidden. All

51:20

the none of that impressive zoom

51:20

form. The word of this world's

51:24

Kingdom is also everywhere, but

51:24

it's a lot more sexy. In your

51:30

face. Great graphic designers

51:30

for that stuff. super

51:35

impressive. It's very alluring.

51:35

Yeah. And often super

51:39

convincing, especially when you

51:39

put it side by side with the

51:43

seat of God's Word. So does God

51:43

need to hire a marketer? Graphic

51:50

Designer and Superbowl

51:50

commercial compete? put an ad in

51:53

at the Superbowl. Right.

51:56

Yeah, what would the ad say?

52:01

Yeah, well, that's

52:01

just I mean, it's just such a

52:04

it's just such a juxtaposition.

52:04

We're talking about these two

52:07

things side by side. Yeah, it

52:07

kind of goes back to the

52:10

fireworks stuff, which were just

52:10

so much more. Just so much

52:15

easier. Set of fireworks. Yeah,

52:15

to have a relationship with a

52:19

person. Yes. It just does feel

52:19

like God can't compete. Which

52:28

feels funny to say but you know,

52:28

with with the way he's going

52:31

about things with the note, my

52:31

word is enough. It's powerful

52:34

enough, it's that'll be all you

52:34

need. It'll change your life.

52:38

And because tied in with the

52:38

word is the presence of it's the

52:40

presence of the king. Right? The

52:40

Kingdom. Yeah. So. So that's the

52:46

that's the thing. That's why I

52:46

think that's a big reason why

52:51

working on our root system is so

52:51

hard as we just talked about,

52:54

it's just there's so much

52:54

competitors. Oh, yeah. For our

52:56

time and attention and our

52:56

energy. And it's not even bad

53:01

things. No cares of this world

53:01

money. Those are really helpful,

53:04

practical thing. Yeah. That I

53:04

don't think Jesus hates. He's

53:08

just saying you got you. Those

53:08

will choke out. Yeah, this thing

53:14

if you let them. Yeah, you can't

53:14

let them. Let me just wrap up my

53:23

thing. Great. And then we'll

53:23

talk more. Okay. So the whole

53:27

point of this parable is that

53:27

even with all these obstacles,

53:30

the resistance, the the the no

53:30

roots, the no root system, the

53:36

competitors, the competing

53:36

allegiances, that despite all

53:40

that God's word wins. In the

53:40

end, it has no rivals, if you're

53:44

just looking at not looking at

53:44

the individual level, like Andy

53:47

and venison house gods were

53:47

doing there. But look at the big

53:49

picture. Like for all the seed

53:49

that was lost in those first

53:53

three things, so you there's

53:53

there's four outcomes, the

53:56

majority of the majority of them

53:56

don't work. So it looks more

53:59

like failure than success. But

53:59

then the one outcome that does

54:02

work, it works so well, that it

54:02

more than like a save and close

54:08

it more than makes up for the

54:08

loss of everything else. So

54:12

getting back to the sort of the

54:12

setting in Jesus life, which we

54:15

talked about last time. That's

54:15

what it looks like. It's like

54:20

he's got his disciples and

54:20

everyone else is just like, even

54:24

his families you know, and then

54:24

he's got his enemies and they're

54:29

plotting to kill them, you know,

54:29

all this stuff. It's like, and

54:32

then it's gonna get worse before

54:32

it gets better. So it really

54:36

looks like it's, it's, it's not

54:36

working. But you can see where

54:41

they're where the obstacles are

54:41

taken away. God's word just

54:47

explodes where roots are allowed

54:47

to grow deep and the competition

54:51

has been weeded out. You get a

54:51

return. That's, like if you

54:57

think about it in financial

54:57

terms of return, it's ridiculous

54:59

3000 6010 1000 rate of return,

54:59

that's 100 fold is a 10,000%

55:05

rate of return. So if you bought

55:05

Bitcoin five years ago, it would

55:10

only be at about a 5,000% rate

55:10

of return for comparison, but

55:16

10,000 rate of return. This is

55:16

the fruit of God's Kingdom, the

55:22

space where God was present to

55:22

us, is in his will is being

55:27

worked out in our lives, this

55:27

peace, this goodness, this

55:30

flourishing and growth and love

55:30

and joy and justice. And this

55:34

all comes back to God's desire

55:34

to share with us that God is a

55:41

talkative person. And that's his

55:41

primary way of being with us in

55:48

the world is communication.

55:48

Very, very relational, very

55:53

human and apparently divine way

55:53

of being with someone. Even in

56:01

the gospels, when Jesus says the

56:01

miracles, he's like, Ah, don't

56:04

worry about it. It's not the

56:04

main thing. Yes, signs towards

56:08

the bigger thing that is hid the

56:08

stuff that's hidden. And he

56:14

resists he resist sticking

56:14

around? When things are going

56:18

well, with the miracles now it's

56:18

time to move on? Yeah. It

56:22

doesn't like it doesn't does not

56:22

seem to like to do them that

56:25

much.

56:26

Yeah. Yeah, all

56:26

those all those miracles, where

56:30

it's like, maybe it's, there's

56:30

not a ton of them, but just

56:33

feels like a theme when, you

56:33

know, someone suffering from

56:37

something, and Jesus is like,

56:37

Your sins are forgiven. And

56:40

everyone's like, ah, that person

56:40

can't even walk. And it's like,

56:44

Oh, okay. So that, you know,

56:44

that I have the authority is

56:48

like the IRA,

56:48

that, you know, has authority,

56:53

which is not to,

56:53

you know, diminish the Jesus

56:57

healed so many people. So

56:57

there's, there's that too. Yeah.

57:02

But it is. It is interesting. It

57:02

reminds me of Jesus saying to

57:08

Mary, and Martha, you know, only

57:08

one thing is needed back to that

57:12

first, Seek first the kingdom

57:12

and only one thing is needed.

57:18

Yeah, and I do feel like I've

57:18

had moments where I experienced

57:24

that, like, it's so hard to

57:24

describe, but just the gratitude

57:30

for existing at all, and usually

57:30

related to something really hard

57:35

or scary. You know, those those

57:35

hardest moments in life, where

57:39

when you survive them, you have

57:39

new eyes for what's important

57:44

for a day or a week. And in

57:44

those things do transform us. So

57:52

it's very appealing to me, like

57:52

I'm very attracted to the last

57:58

part here, that the return

57:58

defies comparison, because I've

58:02

tasted it. Like what's most

58:02

important? I heard a story of

58:08

you probably know that a couple

58:08

in Oak Bay, which is like a very

58:11

affluent neighborhood here in

58:11

Victoria, who sold their house

58:14

for a ton of money, because

58:14

that's what houses go for these

58:17

days. Have you heard this,

58:17

millions of dollars, like little

58:21

houses, and they gave everything

58:21

off after what they put in, I

58:28

don't know this language, you

58:28

know, when you buy a house, and

58:31

then everything you make, when

58:31

you sell it, they gave that back

58:35

to the native to the indigenous

58:35

people.

58:40

That is radicals,

58:40

putting your money where your

58:42

mouth

58:43

is? And they

58:43

don't know I kept what they had

58:46

put into it or whatever. I might

58:46

be getting the story wrong. But

58:51

it made me think, you know,

58:51

talking about the cares of the

58:54

world and the deceitfulness of

58:54

riches there is something

58:58

radical about doing things like

58:58

that. And it makes me think that

59:03

that couple does know something

59:03

about the joy the irrevocable

59:12

joy and purpose and meaning that

59:12

comes from like your your root

59:19

system or your your identity and

59:19

your investment into what in

59:25

life but I love the I also love that.

59:31

That third obstacle about

59:38

getting choked out like that

59:38

just feels like there's so much

59:40

there. We could do a whole

59:40

episode on that and we have

59:43

because we always kind of talk

59:43

about the reality

59:46

of it's just it's

59:46

easy to talk about because it's

59:50

just it's constantly there.

59:50

Everything yeah,

59:55

there's yeah so much compete. That's

59:56

why That's why

59:56

That's why there's again I like

1:00:00

the digital minimalism stuff

1:00:00

that we did with Naomi. It's

1:00:03

like all these things. It's, it

1:00:03

can be hard to talk about for a

1:00:07

couple reasons, because it's not

1:00:07

that, like all this technology,

1:00:11

that there's so much good stuff

1:00:11

that it really serves. So you

1:00:14

don't want to just say, Oh, how

1:00:14

terrible times we live in, when

1:00:19

it also obviously brings so much

1:00:19

help and blessing, but it

1:00:24

definitely is a mixed bag. And

1:00:24

that's what I think that's what

1:00:27

we're learning. And, and so

1:00:27

trying to figure out, okay, how

1:00:30

do we how do we manage that and

1:00:30

be more intentional about that,

1:00:34

that flow in our lives, I think

1:00:34

just the extended conversation

1:00:38

we just had about the root

1:00:38

system is kind of overflows into

1:00:41

that. It's not just about, it's

1:00:41

not just about saying like, hey,

1:00:46

I need to, if we're going to

1:00:46

work on our root system, we're

1:00:49

also at the same time I've been

1:00:49

working on our competition, or

1:00:52

time and energy, like both those

1:00:52

things in our world has to

1:00:55

happen at the same time, I think

1:00:57

Yeah. I don't

1:00:57

know what to say. Yeah, it's

1:01:06

kind of blows my mind every

1:01:06

time. I've really liked the idea

1:01:10

of there being a lot of gospels

1:01:10

out there, you know, that it's,

1:01:15

it's actually not accurate to

1:01:15

think that there is just one

1:01:18

gospel, but that there are so

1:01:18

many gospels out there. And I

1:01:22

also, it also reminds me of the

1:01:22

one of the principles of non

1:01:27

violence. I don't know how much

1:01:27

Martin Luther King Jr. had to do

1:01:32

with that. But I think of them

1:01:32

as connected to Martin Luther

1:01:35

King, Jr. And I've mentioned

1:01:35

this before, but that idea that

1:01:40

we, we all have conciliation in

1:01:40

us, and we all have aggression

1:01:45

in us. And aggression is not the

1:01:45

right word, but I forget the

1:01:49

right word, anyways, that we

1:01:49

tend to put our conciliation

1:01:52

towards systems, because they're

1:01:52

hard to define in the heart to

1:01:55

see and we tend to put our

1:01:55

aggression or our resistance,

1:02:00

like a righteous kind of,

1:02:00

against personalities. And he

1:02:05

says, what we really one of the

1:02:05

principles of non violence is in

1:02:09

reversing that, that we have to

1:02:09

be intentional about putting our

1:02:12

conciliation towards the

1:02:12

personalities and the people

1:02:16

that are the face of injustice.

1:02:16

And we have to direct our our

1:02:22

resistance, our anger, our

1:02:22

aggression towards this the

1:02:27

powers the systems, because we

1:02:27

tend to think like, oh, the

1:02:30

system's benign, you know, it's

1:02:30

not, it doesn't have a face, it

1:02:33

doesn't have a personality, it

1:02:33

doesn't have a party. It's just,

1:02:37

it just exists, it's just

1:02:37

neutral, and I should somehow be

1:02:40

a good person within it. And

1:02:40

that is under estimating the

1:02:45

reality of the systems that

1:02:45

choke us. Yeah. We should

1:02:53

probably wrap up,

1:02:54

we should, I think

1:02:54

the so there's the this kind of

1:02:58

the second of the two parts on

1:02:58

the sower and the seed. And I

1:03:03

think just an ending in that

1:03:03

space of God's heart like that

1:03:08

it could have been otherwise,

1:03:08

that God wanted to preserve our

1:03:11

dignity and our human freedom,

1:03:11

despite all the costs, and the

1:03:16

long history it's caused,

1:03:16

because if he was just going to

1:03:20

be straightforward and say, No,

1:03:20

my way the highway, then this

1:03:23

would have been over a long

1:03:23

time. And not in our favor. Most

1:03:27

likely, yeah, at least at the

1:03:27

probably at the cost of our

1:03:29

human freedom. Yeah. But that,

1:03:29

not only does he preserve that,

1:03:35

but he bears with it. And he, he

1:03:35

comes to like, wants to be with

1:03:42

us and win us over, through his

1:03:42

words, and through his presence.

1:03:48

And so I think that's just where

1:03:48

I would want to kind of end our

1:03:51

image on this morning, or

1:03:51

whatever time you're listening

1:03:54

to this podcast. Great. Okay.

1:03:54

Well, we'll be working on our

1:04:00

new website. Stay tuned. I'll

1:04:00

get Vanessa to do a bunch of

1:04:05

blogs. Yeah. And then I'll try

1:04:05

to organize it. Sound fun? Yeah.

1:04:09

Love it. Okay. Well, thanks,

1:04:09

Vanessa. Good to see you. You

1:04:13

too. And next week or next time

1:04:13

next week for us. We're gonna do

1:04:18

I

1:04:20

think the purpose of parables Yeah, might as well tricky one.

1:04:22

I mean, we've

1:04:22

already kind of talked about it

1:04:25

a bit here with the kind of the

1:04:25

nuance of it, but it'll be it'll

1:04:29

be interesting to kind of talk

1:04:29

about. Okay, okay. All right,

1:04:33

everybody, have a good day where

1:04:33

we and work on those root

1:04:37

systems with with freedom.

1:04:37

Exactly. Find some way and trust

1:04:46

that God is at work. Okay,

1:04:46

thanks, Vanessa.