Episode Transcript
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0:01
Welcome to the
0:01
bear with me podcast where we
0:04
aim to integrate belief and
0:04
practice in the Christian life.
0:18
Knock Knock Vanessa Who's there?
0:21
I didn't know that we were gonna start with knocking. Oh, right. That's a
0:22
great way to start. Just KNOCK
0:26
KNOCK.
0:27
KNOCK KNOCK. Yeah,
0:27
I don't know any good knock
0:30
knock jokes.
0:32
Me neither.
0:32
Do You know one?
0:35
Oh, I'm sure I
0:35
do. Interrupting cow. That one
0:39
classic. Yeah, classic. Kids
0:39
love that one.
0:44
Yeah, I think although all the ones I can think of are everyone's gonna
0:45
know those. So let's not even go
0:48
there. But why are we talking about knocking?
0:50
Oh, because last
0:50
time we talked, we ended our
0:54
episode wondering what does it
0:54
look like to hear the knock? So
1:00
the idea was that God is
1:00
communicating all the time. And
1:05
that is demonstrated by the
1:05
parables, but specifically by
1:10
the parable of the sower, where
1:10
there's so many seeds being sown
1:13
indiscriminately. So to mix
1:13
metaphors, we were saying, you
1:19
know, it Oh, it's there's, it's
1:19
easy. There's an opportunity
1:22
every day to choose to be
1:22
connected to Christ. But then we
1:30
asked, well, how do you hear the
1:30
knocking? Like if the knocking
1:33
is happening every day? How? How
1:33
do you hear that?
1:35
Yeah. It's this
1:35
sort of strange for me, it's a
1:39
sort of strange play on, on kind
1:39
of the like, if you grew up in
1:44
the church, you may have run
1:44
into this, this idea that, Oh,
1:48
you didn't have enough faith for
1:48
this thing or that thing? And
1:50
that's becomes a really maybe
1:50
unhealthy, very unhelpful
1:54
framework to to evaluate our own
1:54
art and spiritual lives. But if
1:59
you kind of turn it around,
1:59
because I struggle, I struggled
2:03
to talk about this kind of
2:03
concept sometimes, because I
2:05
don't want to be the pastor saying, Oh, you don't have enough faith? Oh, yeah. But if
2:07
if the idea isn't so much like,
2:10
well, it's not about I don't
2:10
have enough faith for God to do
2:13
something. What if it's the
2:13
other way around? I'm like, No,
2:16
God is doing something using the
2:16
trust that he's there. And if
2:21
you trust that, what Jesus is
2:21
saying, hearing these parables
2:25
like, no, that kingdom is in
2:25
your midst, it's just under your
2:28
nose. You sometimes you just
2:28
have to trust that it's there.
2:32
So what if we lived our lives
2:32
acting as if behaving as if God
2:37
were present? And speaking to
2:37
us? For me, I would say he'll
2:43
and I will start paying attention to what's happening around me and not just thinking
2:45
that it's all happenstance or
2:49
coincidence, or doesn't have any
2:49
sort of connection. Not that
2:52
everything needs to say, Oh,
2:52
this is what God has, you know,
2:55
there's, you know, that can
2:55
drive us nuts in not be helpful.
3:02
But to try it on to say, Okay,
3:02
what might God be speaking to me
3:07
in this moment? So this is where
3:07
Gordon Smith goes, yes. Yeah.
3:12
The voice of Jesus. He's talking
3:12
about Christian tradition. Talk
3:17
about Jonathan Edwards, Jonathan
3:17
Wesley, and Jess what? exams
3:24
that
3:24
guy, Ignatius, Ignatius, thank
3:26
you. They're all
3:26
three of these. They're very
3:29
come from very different
3:29
traditions, always. But they all
3:32
have these overlaps in terms of
3:32
paying attention to the world
3:35
around them, kind of Bible and
3:35
what word of God in one hand,
3:39
what is what is the voice of
3:39
Jesus sound like maybe familiar
3:41
with it? And we try to listen
3:41
for him in the experiences and
3:45
the events in the world around
3:45
me. What in discern what is God
3:48
speaking to me? It's really
3:48
exciting stuff. So, so what are
3:56
for us? What might be some of
3:56
those, those prompts or those
4:00
knocks of God speaking to us in
4:00
our lives?
4:05
Yeah, I was thinking about this as I walked home. Last time, we talked from
4:06
here from the studios. And I was
4:12
thinking that knocking using
4:12
that metaphor is either felt or
4:19
heard, you know, like, if you're
4:19
near a door and there's a knock,
4:23
there's like a bit of a
4:23
vibration. Or if you're in
4:26
another room, and there's a
4:26
knock, you hear something, and
4:28
you're like, was that a knock?
4:28
So, so thinking about that, I
4:34
went to okay, how do I hear or
4:34
feel throughout the day, like
4:39
what makes me reachable? What
4:39
makes me accessible? And it
4:44
reminded me of the concept of
4:44
the spiritual senses, which I've
4:50
been learning about in the
4:50
program I'm in and those are
4:54
things like Taste and see that
4:54
the Lord is good. All these
4:58
things in the Bible like Using
4:58
our physical senses, but in a
5:03
different way for God. So
5:03
there's like this whole history
5:08
around the spiritual senses.
5:08
It's not like talked about a
5:10
ton. But the idea is that we
5:10
actually can grow our spiritual
5:16
senses are seeing or hearing in
5:16
spiritual ways or tasting or
5:21
feeling. Yeah. And though in my
5:21
in the reading I've done about
5:24
it for school, the number one
5:24
recommendation is to immerse
5:30
ourselves in the gospels, like
5:30
in for our imaginations to be
5:35
formed by how Jesus lives and
5:35
responds to things and then and
5:42
then those faculties are
5:42
heightened. The seeing, feeling
5:46
tasting, touching, I missing one
5:46
smelling. So that came to mind
5:54
like, Oh, this is a spiritual
5:54
census issue. And, you know, I
5:59
trust people that say, you
5:59
develop your spiritual senses by
6:04
being in the gospels, it's a
6:04
very scent, stool, sensual
6:08
experience, there's lots of
6:08
eating and feeling and touching
6:13
and hearing, you know, going on.
6:13
So that's, that has helped me
6:19
over the last couple of weeks,
6:19
just remember, like, what
6:22
usually feels like not a very
6:22
big deal to read the gospel
6:27
lectionary passage for the day
6:27
or to join morning prayer. So
6:32
it's reminded me that that's not
6:32
in vain, you know, the, like,
6:37
510 15 minutes that it takes to
6:37
read that Gospel passage for the
6:40
day with this openness, like God
6:40
gives you access to me to
6:47
heighten my senses. Or to speak
6:47
to me through this story about
6:52
Jesus, whether I'm doing that
6:52
with other people, or by myself,
6:56
that that came to mind as like a
6:56
pretty great start to a day.
7:01
Yeah, I like that
7:01
I like you mentioned early on,
7:05
this is a learning thing. And
7:05
we've talked about this a lot.
7:10
There's this perception that a
7:10
lot of us have, whether we
7:14
reflect on it or not that
7:14
anything spiritual should be
7:17
easy, just come to us. And I
7:17
think it breeds a lot of
7:22
discouragement among anybody
7:22
who's spiritually seeking but
7:26
Christians in particular, who
7:26
feel like they don't have a lot
7:29
of God experiences. And if it's
7:29
not, and so it can get easily
7:38
interpreted I think, like, God
7:38
is not broken into my life.
7:42
Yeah. In these ways. And in a
7:42
wonder if we flip it around,
7:49
say, Well, what if he is in it,
7:49
it's just it's a learning it's a
7:53
it's a learning the alphabet of
7:53
how to discern in and see when
8:00
God is showing up that all of us
8:00
have to kind of figure out and
8:04
just like babies and infants and
8:04
toddlers growing up, we stumble
8:09
through until we kind of learn
8:09
our to get our footing and
8:12
understand language and can
8:12
start to, to engage in that way.
8:18
But I think it's a turnoff for a
8:18
lot of for a cultural moment to
8:23
think, to compare learning how
8:23
to hear the voice of God or
8:27
having to be in this
8:27
relationship with like, weight
8:31
training or exercise or things
8:31
that actually take a lot of
8:34
intentionality like, Hey, I'm
8:34
gonna go three times a week for
8:37
20 to 30 minutes, I'm going to
8:37
start slow and we're going to
8:40
build up over time, and I'm
8:40
going to take a chunk of my life
8:45
and actually reoriented around
8:45
this but when you read I think
8:48
you read a lot of the lot of the
8:48
Christian those who've gone
8:57
before and actually have engaged
8:57
in this like that's what they do
9:00
is like okay, we're going to
9:00
experiment or I'm going to try
9:03
to really make this this routine
9:03
in my life because I because I
9:07
have this desire which is
9:07
exactly what we've been talking
9:10
about in the parables is like,
9:10
is there is where's the will at?
9:14
Where's the desire for this?
9:14
Yeah, and even if your prayer is
9:18
who I want to want that, like
9:18
that's take it like it's just
9:21
takes a little muscle, it's just
9:21
takes a little seed, right? So
9:24
this is really encouraging. So
9:24
just take what you've got the
9:27
very teeny tiny bit that you've
9:27
got it and start investing that
9:31
and say okay, I'm gonna pray
9:31
five seconds a day. God would
9:35
you make, would you? I want to
9:35
want would you make the desire
9:39
grow and at least start there.
9:39
If you got more than that.
9:42
Great, then use that in and take
9:42
five minutes a day or 15 minutes
9:47
a week or whatever the thing is,
9:47
So Vanessa is promising to write
9:51
a blog on our website entitled
9:51
Bear. Bear with me podcast.com
9:58
That sounds
9:58
right or is it ca o Hmm,
10:00
notes.com Okay,
10:00
great. Bear with bear with me
10:03
podcast.com I'll double check
10:03
that but. And so I think I asked
10:08
her, because I didn't want to
10:08
write it. To write something if
10:12
someone only had what was it?
10:12
Like, if you only had 15 minutes
10:16
a week? Yeah. Or if you only had
10:16
20 minute if you had, but if you
10:19
had 30 minutes week, what would you how would you spend your time? Yeah, if you had an hour a
10:20
week, how would you spend your
10:22
time? Yeah, or something like
10:22
that. Just give some a menu of
10:26
options for anyone who's just
10:26
wanting to get into this from
10:30
maybe a place of zero to a place
10:30
of one? Yeah, okay, I can here's
10:35
here's a bit of reorienting my
10:35
life. And that God is so
10:39
gracious and so good that he'll
10:39
take this very tiny stuff that
10:43
we have at the very beginning.
10:43
Oh, yeah. And make something out
10:46
of it. Thank you feel like I'm
10:46
getting us off topic or the
10:51
nights out.
10:51
That's all on topic.
10:55
And the immersing
10:55
yourself in the Gospels. The
10:58
other other thing of just Yeah,
10:58
learning like I think that's
11:02
part of the, the intentional
11:02
work of learning the language of
11:06
God, this is, if this really is
11:06
God's words to us, then let's
11:10
learn the languages learn what
11:10
he sounds like, let's learn what
11:13
the voice of Jesus sounds like.
11:13
So when we do come up against
11:16
it, in our when we hear the
11:16
voices in our own heads, which
11:19
are often our own voices, or
11:19
just our own thoughts, they Oh,
11:21
that one sounds an awful lot
11:21
like what I read in the gospels,
11:25
that sounds an awful lot like
11:25
Jesus like doing on your own.
11:28
Maybe I should pay more
11:28
attention to that one game that
11:31
Scott actually saying something
11:31
in my life, that that's those
11:34
are, those are both what you
11:34
said those are both the ways I
11:37
would say that's where I hear
11:37
the knocking is like, Does this
11:40
sound like what I've what I've
11:40
heard before in this in this
11:44
setting?
11:46
Yes. And the
11:46
other, the bookend to the day
11:50
that came to mind that we've
11:50
talked a lot about, so I won't
11:53
talk about it too much is this
11:53
some kind of end of the day
11:56
review, which I should write a
11:56
blog post for this too, because
12:01
I have a new way of doing an
12:01
examine, that's just been really
12:04
helpful for me. And so I go in,
12:04
in seasons of doing that
12:10
nightly, and then seasons have
12:10
not, and I've just been in a
12:13
season of doing it nightly, but
12:13
I'm a few weeks in. And only in
12:19
the last week have I felt like
12:19
something opened in the section
12:26
like after, you know, pausing to
12:26
ask God to help reflect on the
12:31
day, which is like a three
12:31
second prayer like God, I don't
12:35
want to just, you know, remember
12:35
my day like a movie, I actually
12:38
want to see what's important
12:38
from my day. And then noting the
12:43
gifts from the day. It's kind of
12:43
like a real simple gratitude
12:45
list. And then looking for those
12:45
moments in the day that brought
12:49
me to God and away from God.
12:49
After that, I put a little like
12:53
frowny face, just to symbolize
12:53
Do you have anything that I want
12:57
to apologize for? Or that I
12:57
don't feel great about? Or the I
13:02
need to like, say something
13:02
about, you know, like, confess,
13:06
and for several days, weeks, I
13:06
didn't have anything for the
13:11
frowny face. I was like, I just
13:11
can't think of anything. which
13:15
can't be true. Knowing me, Andy.
13:15
Right. Right. Nothing for the
13:20
frowny face in the last week. I
13:20
have something almost everyday
13:24
for the frowny face.
13:25
Oh, that's great.
13:25
Yeah. No, that's
13:27
good.
13:27
Congratulations. It is great,
13:30
because I think it's so it's so
13:30
dim in there. And it takes it
13:35
takes a lot of time. And just
13:35
like opening the door to that
13:41
basement to say anything in
13:41
here. And most days, it's like
13:46
Nope, you're great. Nothing.
13:46
There's nothing to think about.
13:51
Don't worry about us down here.
13:51
Yeah, we're fine. And then but
13:56
just continuing to open that
13:56
door and just ask I'm I started
14:01
to notice things that I've that
14:01
I do a lot but it's just that I
14:06
wasn't aware of them like little
14:06
one recently it was like a bit
14:12
of a lie. A bit of a lie. So you
14:12
know and then just like naming
14:17
that and thinking do I tell my
14:17
friend that I said that? Do I
14:22
just confess it to God right
14:22
now. It's it's uncomfortable. So
14:28
those are the knots that I'm
14:28
like, that's a pretty big knock.
14:33
You can't not respond when you
14:33
when you become aware of
14:38
something that you said or did
14:38
that was for your own ego or
14:43
purposes or out of anxiety or
14:43
fear. That's my other. My book
14:48
end of the day would be the
14:48
knocking good, yeah.
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