0:00

Welcome to Behind the Influence, a production

0:02

of I Heart Radio and TDC Media.

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It's funny because at the time I was so

0:08

sad about it, but it ended up being one of the

0:10

biggest blessings of my career. So

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it's like, to give somebody the wrong advice or give

0:14

them false hope is actually the meanest

0:17

thing I could do for them. Having a

0:19

great song is so important.

0:21

There's so many sides of music. There's publishing

0:24

and songwriting, and then there's like

0:26

the live touring side and the agents and

0:28

management, so many sides to music.

0:32

I'm so excited we have Aton ben

0:34

Herren in the house. You are the

0:37

global VP of warners

0:39

Ay and our group. Hey,

0:42

that's a big deal. I'm so excited

0:44

to have you here today. The entire premise

0:46

of the show is interviewing people who are

0:49

behind the influence and are of influence.

0:52

You play a huge role in the behind

0:54

the scenes of the influence and actually discovering

0:57

people, which is a big deal, and discovering

0:59

not to anyone, but people in the music industry,

1:01

which is, in my opinion, the hardest

1:03

industry to break through. How do you do it

1:06

all? And what do you do? And we

1:08

need to get to the nitty gritty here because I've

1:10

always been so confused about how the music industry

1:12

works. How does one get to that position?

1:15

So there's not one way

1:17

of becoming an A and R. We're working

1:19

at a record company. Everybody has a different journey,

1:21

you know. It really was a long journey.

1:24

I've made all my money off of music

1:26

related stuff since I was fifteen. I've had

1:28

no other job. I did a lot of different

1:30

things in music to get to this place.

1:33

And the interesting thing is that I didn't really plan.

1:36

I just kind of followed my heart every step of the way,

1:38

and it kind of like led me to this part.

1:40

I think I was like ten years old. I was in the school

1:43

choir, so like I got a headstart

1:45

on like hearing harmonies, which actually helps you have a

1:47

good voice. It's it's it's background

1:51

background. Okay, okay, it's better than me.

1:53

It's I'm just good for the shower. It sounds

1:55

great in the shower. Shower was a good place you have good

1:57

acoustics. And and then I took two

2:00

as a piano, but I still wasn't obsessed with music.

2:02

I was actually my life was actually ice hockey. I

2:04

was obsessed with ice hockey. I was living in Miami.

2:07

I remember I was at hockey camp and I

2:09

left practice one day

2:12

and this is like and

2:15

there was I heard like Green Day basket

2:17

Case playing out of like someone's convertible, and

2:19

I was like, and there was not. There was nothing that sounded

2:22

like that at the time, and I was like, what is this. I've never

2:24

heard of this. I was obsessed with this

2:27

is insane. I have to learn more about like

2:29

I wanted to hear all those songs. So I bought the Dukie

2:31

album. Yes, I

2:33

could listen to it right now, Yeah,

2:36

so good, and yeah we should play

2:38

it. And my father had a like

2:40

an acoustic like nylon string guitar that was

2:42

just kind of collecting dust at the house. And

2:45

I learned how to play every song on

2:47

that album. And my fingers were almost bleeding. I remember,

2:49

like it was nuts. When you first started playing

2:52

guitar, it's like an awkward feeling and it hurts your fingers,

2:54

so it's like they get past that like first threshold.

2:56

But I remember my fingers were practically bleeding,

2:59

and I learned every song on the album. I was like, obsessed,

3:01

How did you learn that? Where you did someone give

3:03

you. There's definitely these like tablisher

3:06

things which are very easy. So it's not like reading

3:08

like regular notes. It's like anybody could read

3:10

it. It It kind of almost like it's looking at like a picture of

3:12

like the strings and like, so it's pretty easy. And

3:14

I took two only took like two months of lessons,

3:17

but then learned that kind of taught myself the rest. Once

3:19

I learned how to read that, I was like, well, I could just keep doing

3:21

this and figure it out. But but the rest of the guys in my

3:23

hockey team, we were all neighbors. They all picked

3:26

up an instrument that we started a band. What so

3:28

you basically like poached the entire ice

3:31

hockey team to come and join your band. We were

3:33

like best friends, so we kind of really

3:35

all like that got exposed to it at the same

3:37

time, and then started a rock band. And

3:39

that turned out to be like a crazy

3:42

long journey which I could write. I don't know

3:44

how long this interview is, but to literally

3:46

spend I could write a book about

3:48

every part of my journey, but just the band stories

3:50

like insane. About two

3:52

years in I had to lift for

3:54

college, took a break from the band, and ended up

3:57

producing. Well, I got exposed

3:59

to dance music, so I became like obsessed with dance

4:01

music, bought a drum machine,

4:03

brought turntable, started producing, and

4:05

uh, I was djaying locally at a bunch of places.

4:08

Where were you at the time. I moved to Orlando for

4:10

college, so it was in Orlando. So did you make

4:12

your way to Miami where a lot of the electronic music

4:14

was Yeah, I actually I played Ultra Music festival

4:17

like three or four years in a row. I

4:19

was a DJ, and I had developed a following

4:21

in that scene at the time, and uh, and I

4:23

was also getting learning how to produce and

4:25

DJ and all that I was. I d on air

4:27

two at the at the local station and a couple

4:30

of venues. And what I started doing also

4:32

for extra money. I started throwing events downtown,

4:34

so I would book local talent and

4:36

like DJs and like collect the door money.

4:38

So I was doing like everything, and

4:40

then the band gets back together. So

4:43

at one point I was djaying, I was in the band,

4:45

and I was throwing events downtown. I

4:47

remember we'd be on tour and I would call I

4:49

would make calls back home and there was

4:51

somebody collecting door money for me and like flying

4:53

the DJs in between like shows. I would

4:55

like in between cities, I would make calls. That is the

4:58

definition of a hustler people. And

5:00

you're in Miami, so it just makes it even better. I went to

5:02

college in Miami, so I'm just like picturing you

5:05

a mentor like bead that

5:08

happened and we were play We did like warp tours, simple

5:10

plan tours. The whole thing. I was writing

5:12

songs that didn't always fit the band, so

5:14

I I it was like pop pop songs.

5:17

I started producing for other artists and ironically,

5:19

I so I sold my first song

5:22

as a producer to Mike

5:24

Karen at Atlantic Records. At the time, that's who

5:26

ended up like years later, I would end up

5:28

hiring me to do a hard so

5:31

I told him he was at the time, he was the vice

5:33

president of an art Atlantic Records. I

5:36

started this production team called the Agency,

5:38

and that was like our first The first thing

5:40

that we sold was like it is like two thousand six

5:43

and then I had money saved up and I

5:45

was doing a bunch of songwriting for local people

5:47

and Mudy saved up Max all my credit

5:49

cards. Took a big risk. What became

5:52

like the most popular studio in that

5:54

region, which is called Plush. It's called Plush Recording

5:56

Studios. That's kind of that's when things started

5:58

picking up. Whenever the studio wasn't booked, I

6:00

would either be writing or I started signing

6:02

local producers and writers to management,

6:04

letting them use the rooms when it wasn't active.

6:07

But but in the studio, and we had all types of anybody

6:10

that would come through Orlando, Chris Brown and Flow

6:12

Rider and DJ Khalid and like

6:14

like all it was like a constant flow of

6:17

people. I was making great contact.

6:19

I was I was leveraging the studio locally for different

6:22

things. How the stars aligned there is insane

6:25

to me. And you still have all these other

6:27

things still going on. You still have your band, I'm

6:29

assuming you still have your music

6:31

that you're creating. You're still booking

6:34

clubs and shows and all these things. But it's

6:36

just one of you. How did one sleep

6:38

or eat during all this time? Did you not?

6:40

It was kissed, but it was definitely chaos. But

6:42

when you do what you love, it's like fun

6:45

and it doesn't feel like work. You

6:47

know. The other thing that a lot of people say in

6:49

your position, who have been very successful. Ultimately,

6:52

they literally dumped out every penny

6:54

from their bank account or max out their

6:57

cards to make it. Like we were

6:59

talking to the under of Patreon, Jack

7:01

Conti, and he was saying he literally max

7:04

out his credit cards, like didn't have rent money

7:06

and just went for it. I feel like that's when you

7:08

know it's in your heart and you really

7:10

want to do it. Because if it's a if it's a maybe

7:13

I don't know, should I, you don't do it. If it's

7:15

a full body yes, I have to do this,

7:17

you have to do it. Yes. But to add to that, I always

7:19

say, you have to be realistic, right like if I had

7:21

just done my band, I would fell

7:23

on my face if I had just done DJA,

7:26

if I had just you know, done it. So it

7:28

was because I did everything, like I had a side

7:30

hustle. Basically I advised everyone,

7:33

whether it's music, side hustle or not, to get

7:35

some kind of side hustle because then you have a timeline like

7:37

if I don't make it by this amount of time, I

7:39

still have this, then I'm yeah. Or

7:41

if you have a sidehusse, so you don't have the

7:44

timeline right exactly, because you don't

7:46

care. Yeah, you're not like, oh my god, I'm gonna,

7:48

you know, be out on the street like I have, I have

7:50

something I can continue because you don't know when

7:53

things are gonna connect, you

7:55

know, so at least it gives you, like the longevity.

7:57

I believe that you always have to have a side hustle,

7:59

Like I would never just do one thing. I don't

8:01

do just one thing, you know what I mean, because

8:03

you never know, and you don't want

8:05

to just be fall in your face like you said exactly.

8:08

So that's kind of what what what I guess it

8:10

was for me. It was like I was doing things I loved, but I

8:12

definitely had to do Like I mean, even the throwing

8:14

the events downtown, Like you fly

8:16

in the big Act. You spend all

8:19

this money and then it rains and nobody wants to go to

8:21

and nobody wants to go out. It's like torrential

8:23

downpours and you lose money. And I was like, man, it's

8:25

so it's like there it was a lot of ups and downs.

8:28

It was. It was definitely stressful and but fun

8:30

at the same time. And then there was this one

8:32

artist I found and developed and

8:35

signed to a management deal and put

8:37

out this song that I wrote and produced

8:39

as well, so and the whole thing went viral. Who was the artist?

8:42

It was just it was a YouTube thing grow

8:44

Avery at the time, kind of like a

8:46

young like Avril type,

8:49

and she went viral. It went viral. There was a big

8:51

beating war. Everybody was like trying

8:53

to sign her. Um we did, ah if

8:55

we did a deal with a Universal Motown

8:58

at the time, Sylvia Rowning and Chris and day

9:00

Um at Universal Motown and uh,

9:03

shout out to them. They gave me a shot as

9:05

a young manager. Shout out

9:07

to people who give others a chance. Really

9:10

for real, is that's what it's all about. Yeah,

9:12

I got a check, moved to l A,

9:15

hired someone to run my studio in Florida,

9:17

which I still have to this day. Insane

9:19

um But but that's what got me to l A. We

9:21

were working on that album for about eight months and I

9:23

was writing with all like a lot of local

9:26

writers and producers. It's funny, a lot of people don't

9:28

realize, you know. Now they look at me, you know, they

9:31

they say, oh, that's a that's the A R guy. But at

9:33

the time I made a lot of the writers and producers

9:35

as a co writer or co producer

9:38

with them in the room. So it was a really cool way to meet

9:40

a lot of the writing community at the time.

9:43

What ended up happened eight months later Motown,

9:45

before we were about to go to Radio Universal,

9:48

had this whole restructuring, so a

9:50

bunch of artists got dropped and everything kind

9:52

of shifted with that, and I was like, man, what do

9:54

I do now. I spent two and a half years on this project.

9:56

I'm in l A. And right around that time,

9:58

Mike Karen, who bought the first beat

10:00

from me, became global president

10:03

of an R for War and Music Group, so

10:05

and he he's like, do you want to try an R And I was

10:07

like, yeah, let's let's do like like a trial

10:09

thing. And thank god, it

10:12

was like the dots connected. My

10:15

first hit was talk Dirty or Jason, I

10:17

mean, come on your

10:19

whole journey just sounds like the stars were

10:22

aligning the entire time, and the universe

10:24

was like, Okay, Tom, this is what you're gonna do. But

10:26

first you're gonna do this band, Then you guys are

10:28

gonna take a break, then you're gonna do this. Then

10:30

there's gonna be a trench led downpour at your

10:32

thing. You're gonna lose a hundred K. But it's

10:35

okay because in the end everything

10:37

worked out. I mean I think that you know, you know what it is. It's

10:39

it's uh. I'm actually I learned so

10:41

much from from the journey. I mean, first of all, I

10:44

always say, if I didn't do this part, I wouldn't know

10:46

this. If I didn't if I if I didn't like have

10:48

this issue with a tour guy, you know, at

10:50

this venue, I wouldn't know how to give my

10:52

artist this kind of advice and and everything because kind

10:54

of you connect the dots and it makes me, you know, the

10:56

best I could be at this job now, which is exciting.

10:59

But I also learned that, like you know, I

11:01

used to get bent out of shape, you

11:03

know about over stuff when like I mean,

11:05

I I skipped a lot of stuff. But like I actually

11:07

got kicked out of my band when I was you know, I

11:10

think it was I think it was eighteen. I was seventeen

11:12

or eighteen at the time, and for me, that was my life at the

11:14

time. And I was, so, why

11:17

did they kick you out because you weren't giving it enough attention?

11:19

That's a whole other story. But we don't get into

11:23

I mean we we we added a new band member, I had

11:25

to leave town at the same time, and then like when

11:27

I came back, they had been practicing. It was

11:29

a whole long story. But but but but

11:32

I love them and I forget. Did you feel replaced?

11:34

I felt, yeah, I felt really hurt. I was really saying.

11:38

I knew that we were adding a bandman, but I didn't new

11:40

that I was being replaced. And I don't think that was

11:42

the plan. But when I left town for two weeks, my

11:44

family happened in a book, a vacation strategically

11:47

like right at the same time. You

11:49

know, it was okay, But I think that's a part of the stars

11:51

aligning. Yeah, honestly, it's

11:53

funny because at the time I was so sad

11:56

about it, but it ended up being one of the biggest

11:58

blessings of my career. That's how I wouldn't

12:00

have known that, because if I didn't, that didn't happen. I

12:02

wouldn't have gone on to learn how to produce

12:05

and buy a drum machine and get exposed

12:07

to dance music and get exposed to the other side.

12:09

I was. I was my world was that band

12:11

that was everything. So it really but

12:14

but but that's just one story. But I have a ton

12:16

of stories like that where like I thought something

12:18

was, you know, bad, and it turned out to be

12:20

good. Or it's just like I just

12:22

learned to trust God and trust that process.

12:25

I was just about to get a little God on you, but you

12:27

said God, So I'm want to say God. I have this

12:29

picture. It's my favorite in the world. Every time

12:31

I lose something that I wanted, like whether it

12:33

was an opportunity or whatever, there's

12:35

this image of this little girl like reaching

12:38

out to God being like, but God,

12:40

I wanted, and he's holding a really tiny teddy

12:42

bear and he's taking it away from her, but behind his back

12:44

is a huge teddy bear. So it's basically

12:47

saying like she's really wanting that

12:49

little tiny teddy bear, but the big one

12:51

behind the back is like just wait, it's coming.

12:54

And it's like this image I always look at when

12:57

something goes wrong, or if I think

12:59

something's supposed to be one way but then it turns out the

13:01

other. I just trust God and I'm like, you know what, I'm

13:03

leaving it up to you. I know You've got big

13:05

things plan I'll just sit back and just let let

13:07

things happen. You

13:10

are now and so many like even me listening

13:12

to your story. The A and Our

13:14

person you met before when you're in Florida, and

13:16

then and then the global in our

13:19

president is now somebody you know and he's

13:21

giving you a chance. It's like so

13:23

many amazing opportunities

13:25

for you that I don't want to say fell into your lap

13:28

because you worked hard for those. I mean, every relationship

13:30

you made along the way. The hustle, those

13:33

connections are why you are where you are,

13:35

And I think people forget you can't

13:37

just be talented and be like, guys, I'm good at this job,

13:39

like you have to. You have to hustle

13:41

and prove it. So for

13:43

people who aren't familiar about how A

13:46

and Our works back in the day, probably

13:49

just sending in a cassette of your favorite song

13:51

or whatever. How is it today with

13:53

digital and social media and I

13:55

mean you can literally go on SoundCloud

13:59

or Spotify probably find the next

14:01

big thing. Are people actually submitting

14:03

things still or how does that work?

14:06

So I get about a hundred songs a day

14:08

to my email from all over the world from

14:11

managers, producers, writers, artists,

14:13

publishers, attorneys, agents.

14:16

It's like hundred songs

14:19

a day and about four to emails a day.

14:21

How many do you listen to? Listen to? As many

14:23

as I can? Do you have someone else help you? Like, yes,

14:25

I have to have a team of six under me and

14:29

amazing team shout out to them.

14:31

But but but I listened to as much as I can by

14:33

myself. And whatever. Like a lot of the unsolicited

14:36

stuff, I'll send it to one of my trusted

14:39

years and if they love it, they'll send it back

14:41

to me. And but everything gets listened to, And

14:44

I mean there's a whole I can tell you a lot about

14:46

how I listen to the stuff, but I'll say

14:48

quickly that they're probably the most important.

14:51

Well, the course is the most important part of the song.

14:54

So if it's a song I skipped to the if

14:56

it's just gonna ask, do you listen to the

14:58

first like ten seconds or do you kind of up

15:00

there out the song is structured

15:02

the right way, The course should come in

15:04

no later than forty five seconds. Think past

15:06

that is too long of a wait, So I try to

15:08

find the chorus. Pro tip guys,

15:11

if you are going to submit a song, to aton

15:13

make it hot before seconds, or

15:16

he's not listening, so I'll try to skip to

15:18

the chorus. I'll find that I hear the course. If the course

15:20

is great, then I go back and hear the whole song. But I also

15:22

get a lot of instrumentals, so like because

15:24

a lot of the stuff we also put songs together.

15:26

I can't always count on somebody sending

15:29

me a hit song, so we're pretty

15:31

proactive. A lot of us, most of us come from musical

15:33

background, and on my floor, I have studios

15:36

and we have constant writing sessions, and uh,

15:39

it's a lot of it is putting the right people in the room. But

15:41

so I mean, we we sign, so obviously

15:43

we look for new people to sign, but we only

15:45

signed a certain amount of things per year. But most

15:47

of my time is actually spent either putting

15:49

songs together from my current artists

15:52

or in the studio with them, guiding them into the recording

15:54

process, or basically, like I mean,

15:56

there's there's just like the two sides of any arts. There's

15:58

a discovery side where you're kind of scouting

16:01

news new talent, and then there's the record making

16:03

side. So so you have to actually

16:05

follow up and develop that. Yes, I mean the most

16:07

important thing is hits, you know,

16:09

and every and every artist has a different

16:12

has different needs for that. Some of them are better

16:14

songwriters than others, just totally

16:16

different talent to writing a hit song and being an artist.

16:19

And uh oh that's a that's a good

16:21

one liner. Yes, that's

16:23

so true though, So explain that a little

16:25

further for us. The only specific

16:27

people that could be artists they have the voice

16:30

that that unique and specials and

16:33

that they have the drive and because

16:35

I mean, it's seven thing being arts,

16:37

especially if you succeed, it's literally like you have

16:39

no life. It's like so much work, so many

16:41

things. You have to love it and be able

16:43

to deliver on all that stuff. And

16:46

songwriting is a whole other thing. There's there's artists

16:48

that are superstars, but they

16:51

can't write a hit song on their own, you know they need

16:53

is it because they expect others to do it for them

16:55

or they just don't know? I mean, they

16:58

all of them, you know, they love music, All

17:00

these the ones

17:02

I work with, most of them try their best, and

17:04

some of them do write hits. I mean a lot of them write write their own

17:06

hits. And but but but but the smart ones also

17:09

know that even if you write your own hits, Like let's

17:11

say you have a hit song, it's exploding the first

17:13

thing you do, you're going out to promote it, you're touring, you

17:15

need to follow up, so you

17:17

you can't even physically be you know, sometimes

17:20

it takes, like, you know, even the best writers

17:22

in the world, like ninety percent of the time they

17:24

go into studio, they're not writing a hit. It's like it's like if

17:26

it was so easy, then everybody would just have like, you

17:28

know, not stuff if you're constant. So so

17:31

sometimes it takes a couple

17:33

of months in the studio to find the one record, you

17:35

know. So the artists

17:37

sometimes, if I mean so it's different each time.

17:39

It's not like a set amount of time, but you

17:41

can't know when it's going to come. So so

17:44

if they're promoting a song or on tour and

17:46

they don't have as much time to spend, so sometimes

17:49

they need more support, even though they're

17:51

amazing writers or producers. So so it just kind

17:53

of like every every project has different

17:55

needs. So I just kind of try to care to each artists

17:57

and what they need and always respect

18:00

also what they're passionate about and try to

18:02

support their visions as best I can. And you

18:04

know it's it's mainly also

18:07

about that too. You have to kind of find a happy

18:09

medium between finding a great song and also

18:11

supporting the artist vision and their passion.

18:14

Okay, so talk me through this. I submit

18:16

my song to you. It goes to your email just

18:19

so people know how it works, and maybe maybe

18:21

one day they'll reach out to you because we

18:23

are wanting to inspire, right, It's

18:25

all about that. Sending you an email with

18:28

the song, make sure the song is popping before

18:30

forty five seconds. And then you find

18:32

something you like. After you find something

18:34

you like, what do you do with it? Do you reach

18:36

out, your team reaches out for a meeting?

18:38

How does that work? Well, Before we even get

18:41

to that, I'll say one thing I'll say is a lot of artists.

18:43

There's so many people with good voices. If it's

18:45

an on the if it's a new artist, so many people as good voices,

18:48

so many talented people. But I

18:50

think the one thing that really will get like

18:52

someone's like my attention, at least on the A

18:54

and R side, is like also having a great

18:57

song with that, because that's actually

18:59

what separates you from like another artist is

19:01

just doing a bunch of covers, a YouTube things.

19:03

There's a lot of those types of artists. A lot

19:05

of the signings are based also around

19:07

having a because the song also kind of

19:10

also sets the direction for the project, and

19:13

you could spend like I could sign an artist that

19:15

doesn't have that song, and that could find them a song and

19:17

they're not they don't love the song, or they're

19:19

not they're the eye to eye, or they could spend two

19:21

years in the studio trying to get the song, they don't get the song, or

19:24

they get the song and they have to start from scratch because

19:26

the direction is totally different. So having a

19:28

great song is so important,

19:31

So that that's definitely one tip I'll

19:33

say too, like that's a really big part of the

19:35

process because there are like a lot of I

19:37

didn't realize until the day and are really

19:39

how much talent there is. I mean, there's so

19:41

much, especially here. I mean I

19:44

go to a hotel cafe and I'm like, what,

19:46

why is this person not famous? And

19:48

I've interviewed so many artists

19:51

in l A. When I'm back in the day, I would

19:53

only do music for a different platform,

19:55

and I would interview these people and we'd go to

19:57

their music video shoots and they were here from London,

20:00

in or wherever, and then I wouldn't

20:02

hear from them ever again, Like they would be gone

20:04

because the label. I don't know what happened, But I want to

20:06

get into that with you actually, about how that works with

20:08

labels and signing people who think they're all

20:10

of a sudden gonna blow up and then they don't, and then they go home.

20:13

I do want to talk about that. But to close

20:15

this conversation off about the n R. You find the person

20:17

you like, you reach out Obviously, I'm sure you do

20:19

your diligence and research or Instagram

20:21

and do all that kind of stuff before you set up the meeting.

20:24

Is that a part of it? Definitely check out as much as I

20:26

can before, not just to save my

20:28

time or to save their time. Yeah, is social media

20:30

important to you? I mean, if you found someone

20:32

with two followers versus five million, are

20:34

you going to go to the five million or the two that's

20:37

a better artists? Well? Before that, I'm

20:39

like, who has the better music? Right? I would

20:41

rather sign someone has the better music without

20:43

any followers and sign someone has a bunch of followers,

20:45

but no music unless I could there's

20:47

a song that there's that that we find that

20:49

I have to happen to have that could work for them or

20:51

on file or But but I really think

20:54

the music always leads the conversation. That's refreshing

20:56

to hear because I think in a lot of industries that's

20:58

not the case. That's awesome. And when you

21:00

do find the person you're convinced that that

21:02

is some of that you want on the label, do you

21:04

then pass them over or you're developing

21:07

them? But then what happens to the artists they go through

21:09

all their deal stuff? Yeah, I mean, I mean I like

21:12

to just get to work first

21:14

and like like are they your artists at that point?

21:16

Um, it's sometimes yes. Sometimes I just like to

21:19

also get some vibe with them in the studio

21:21

and see if we have a good like mystery and

21:23

stuff, because it's not about like signing a quick

21:25

deal. It's about like building something and

21:27

like you know, do you guys work together, do

21:30

you mesh together? Do your visions align? Like? So

21:32

I like to kind of then get to know them, do

21:35

some time in the studio and see what

21:37

what how they work, how their workflow

21:39

is and how the processes and but

21:41

but yeah, if we feel everything, if

21:43

we love it, then yeah, I mean I have also a cool

21:46

position because I'm Warner Music Group is

21:48

actually the parent company too, So

21:51

so, uh, we have Atlantic Records, we

21:53

have Warner Records, we have Parlophone, Electra,

21:57

Big Beat, APG, we have a bunch of companies.

21:59

So cool thing about my job is, you

22:01

know, my team kind of sitsum

22:04

in the middle, so we're able to sign stuff to any

22:06

of the companies. Oh that's nice,

22:08

it's very amazing. So you can actually say this

22:11

will probably make most sense over here, exactly,

22:13

that's great, exactly. Or I can send it

22:15

to a couple of the companies and see who's who

22:18

sees the same vision and and so

22:20

some of the stuff I I signed directly to Atlantic,

22:22

some of the stuff I signed with the APG with my parents

22:24

company. It's different every time, which

22:27

is awesome. So that's part of what I love is

22:29

that we have a lot of options. But

22:31

yeah, I mean, so so that that's kind of that's

22:33

awesome. Is there a certain artists that you're

22:35

super excited about right now up and coming

22:37

that you're working with. I would love to hear.

22:40

You don't feel like I'm cool. You're not

22:42

allowed to say, you know, I'm sure I'm

22:44

allowed to say. I mean, I'm just I'm

22:46

in my head, like, oh my god, they're all your children. I'm

22:49

so excited that, like I don't know who to talk about

22:51

first. I mean the newest signing for me. That that that

22:53

that is just like, actually, I'm not I don't even think

22:55

it's a public signing, so I can't even it's not even publicly

22:57

announced. But there's someone I'm very excited about. That man

23:00

in you'll tell me after the show,

23:02

I'll tell you, and then I'll just like edit

23:04

it in. Yeah, but I

23:06

just actually came from having

23:09

breakfast with Fosia. It's

23:11

spelled f A o U c i A. She

23:14

is a maniac, like in a good sign

23:16

Her voice, Yeah, her voice is

23:19

publicly her project. Her voice

23:21

is insane. It's uh,

23:23

I don't even know how to describe it. It's probably one

23:26

of the best voices I've ever heard. Well, how about this. Right

23:28

after you say it's one of the best voices I've ever heard,

23:30

I'm going to cut in a little bit of her song. Does

23:33

that sound good? Okay? It's gonna roll right now.

23:37

Um angel so mean. I'd

23:45

take it all and I will never

23:47

give it. I

23:53

don't feel sorry if it's

23:55

almost see you gros

24:00

every sun start, I'm waiting

24:03

for yours used to dry. I

24:08

don't really care and done

24:11

ever will That's the way.

24:13

I am such a fear pill.

24:16

I don't really care how my

24:18

silence skills that schoolway

24:21

I am. No.

24:25

I was in going out, I

24:29

was I was like this, No,

24:34

why do you break me? No,

24:37

now I blame I

24:41

wasn't with all these and

24:45

many like, can't

24:50

blame. I'm

24:55

the nightmare. I know what you

24:58

mean by

25:01

that was amazing. She's actually really

25:04

super sweet and humble and loves to uh

25:06

and she's a fantastic songwriter. She's

25:09

I think, wow,

25:11

they're all so young now, all

25:14

the like up and coming hot

25:16

artists are so young. Should people throw in

25:18

the towel if they're like thirty and really want to do

25:20

do the thing? I think it depends on on

25:22

the obviously that it

25:24

is an advantage to having younger

25:27

But but but but I mean, there's

25:29

there's no like right or wrong, and every project

25:32

is totally different. If you're doing like

25:35

not now that there's like but if you're doing like straight

25:37

pop, I think being thirty years old

25:39

is a lot differently. But I get what you're saying,

25:42

because you're not gonna want. Pop has a look, it

25:44

has a vibe you're not gonna want And it's

25:46

not agism. It's just the reality of it. And I also

25:48

assume some of it has to do if you want the

25:50

artists to be around for a while and not just

25:52

be like, I give up, I want to have kids now I'm over

25:54

it, right, any other artists you want to plug,

25:57

Um, I'm here for you. Well,

26:00

I'm just excited about this this Gatlantis

26:03

faith song we just put out with Dolly Pardon.

26:05

Did you see that? We actually we

26:07

got this guy speaking of somebody who

26:10

shout out to Saints. On my Team is an incredible

26:12

in our on my on my team.

26:16

He put together this this faith

26:18

record for Dolly Parton. Um and well,

26:21

Galantis is the act about one of our artists.

26:24

He actually managed to get Dolly Parton on

26:26

the song. They're they're actually doing a

26:28

whole story about it. But but, but the songs

26:31

are doing incredible. Let's tell a little bit that song

26:33

magic, what

27:06

awesome I gotta get one more. Shout get one

27:08

more shout out in Alec Benjamin, Alec

27:10

Benjamin his guy. Yes,

27:13

I love Alex So alex is

27:15

when you know, this is why it's hard. I have like I

27:17

know it's hard. You could do this for twenty minutes. Yeah. So

27:20

Alec Benjamin has another artist

27:22

I signed that I love and uh

27:25

mi guy my dear friend of my Miles Beard.

27:27

Also he's you know APG, but we work on it together.

27:30

But he's he's Alec is

27:32

incredible. He had to let me Down Slowly song. I'm sure

27:34

you've heard it. Yeah, yeah, he's he's on fire.

27:36

So shout out Alec and he's playing to cella. Oh

27:39

yes, he's about to put on a new album and yeah

27:41

he's a new tour announcement. It's it's

27:43

exciting. And if you guys haven't heard from him,

27:45

here's a quick little clip of Alec your

27:47

boy

27:51

a little symphasio. You can show

27:54

me if you want to go, then if

27:58

you leave baby, let me down slowly,

28:00

let me, don't don't let me, don't don't

28:04

let me, don't don't let me, don't let

28:06

me do if you want to go, then

28:10

if you leave them let me done slowly.

28:13

Oh, I wanted to ask you about international music. This

28:15

is a selfish question. I have a cousin who

28:18

has an incredible voice. We're Armenian

28:20

and so he sings at all the you know,

28:22

big Armenian events. He's a great voice, he's a

28:24

great edgy look. And I know a lot of people

28:27

in the music industry and I'm trying to figure

28:29

out how to help navigate where he

28:31

should go and what he should do. It is the

28:33

move to put a bunch of stuff on Spotify. Is the

28:35

move to I don't know what to

28:37

say. If you send me the records, I could tell

28:39

you what the move is. Oh, do

28:43

you see what happens when you know aton you

28:45

get to directly. I'm not even gonna send it to you. I'm

28:47

physically gonna, like do old school

28:49

c D. I'm gonna burn it on the CD and I would

28:52

be like, this is my cousin, Chris, that's

28:54

what we're gonna meet, and we're gonna listen to that on a

28:57

discmand just so it can be really

28:59

official, you know what I think about all the time, like

29:01

back then and at that era, CDs

29:04

and cassettes and all that, like I mean A and

29:06

R back then was so different because

29:09

now I sit by a computer and I can

29:11

hear thirty songs

29:14

in like twenty minutes because click

29:17

Back then, I mean I would have to go out every

29:19

night of the week to hear to hear bands

29:22

and and do you still do that though, just to be like

29:24

a little I do for obviously I go out to stuff

29:27

for fun. But but if it's for like to find

29:29

something, you're not out there searching. I mean, you don't have to search.

29:31

Well, well, the thing is like I could sit there for

29:34

three hours and hear three acts and not even

29:36

hear what the record of music sounds like, because probably

29:38

the most important thing, at least in the beginning. But

29:41

but but I actually if I

29:43

like something that I that I get that gets sent

29:45

to me, then I go here alive or then I'll go see

29:47

like that. It's kind of works backwards. But

29:50

I just can't imagine doing a R back then would

29:52

have been a totally different Yeah,

29:54

there's a there's literally a male person walking

29:57

by with a cart with like CDs

29:59

and just I can I believe none

30:01

of those wire listened to, Like there's no way. I

30:03

don't know who had the time, or they had a bunch

30:06

of interns doing it, and then some really

30:08

great stars did not become stars. But

30:10

it literally you have kind of like I would have

30:12

no would you have no life every night? I had

30:14

every night doing so, So I don't know if I would enjoyed

30:17

it, but but I

30:19

mean, I'm sure I would still enjoy it. But but it's a totally

30:21

different job. So you're a person in

30:23

power, obviously, do you find yourself

30:25

in position sometimes where you feel like, obviously

30:28

this industry can be shady. Is it hard to

30:30

kind of distinguish who friends are the real

30:32

homies versus like I'm trying to climb

30:35

up the louder and and have him help

30:37

me in some way and that's the only intention,

30:39

or with women even I'll be honest, I mean I never

30:43

like, I just don't think about that stuff. I'll

30:46

tell you why I'm I'm a real music

30:48

guy. I will never make a decision

30:50

based off of this is somebody I like, he's

30:52

a friend of mine, let me help or let me or this is something,

30:54

because then everybody loses, you know, so

30:58

I would, but that's got to be so awkward if you have a friend

31:00

who's like you love your friend, right,

31:03

and and they've been working on this band for years

31:05

and years and years or whatever, and they're like, Aton, can

31:07

you can you hook it up? And how

31:09

do you say? I think, first

31:12

of all, giving an honest opinion is

31:15

always, I mean that that is the

31:17

best thing I could do as a friend, because

31:20

absolutely, because I'll tell you some For

31:22

some people, you know, let's talk about the flip

31:24

side. You say, you know, follow your dreams. Follow your dreams. For some

31:26

people that that don't have the

31:30

talent or the skill set means a lot of parts of music.

31:32

Maybe they belong on a different part of the music industry.

31:34

But I think for someone's

31:37

not good enough, you know, I have to tell them.

31:40

I feel like if if I don't, because people's

31:42

like livelihood, it's their life. They put

31:44

in sacrifice and like they they

31:47

give up so much of their life,

31:49

whether it's time or family or whatever

31:51

it is. You know this personally because you were in

31:54

a band, Yeah, I mean, I mean you give up your life

31:56

for this. So it's like to give somebody the wrong advice

31:58

or give them false hope is actually

32:00

the meanest thing I could do for them. Um.

32:03

But but but then at the same time, there's a there's

32:05

an art I'm very direct and straightforward, but there's

32:07

always there's also a way of doing it

32:10

where you're not offending somebody, you know, I think

32:13

and and especially with like like even

32:15

even great songwriters, like I said, most

32:17

of the time, they're not sending me hits. It's

32:19

like it's like it's so you have to kind of find

32:22

the right record from each person or whether it's

32:24

a producer or writer, and I want them to

32:26

keep sending me more music. I don't want them

32:29

to get discouraged, you know. So so there's a way to Okay,

32:31

so it's constructive. It's not like you stuck,

32:33

go do something else, but you're like, hey, send

32:35

me more music when you can. Yes, it's

32:38

definitely constructive. And and uh, always

32:41

encourage everyone that you know keeps sending and don't don't

32:43

get you know, because everyone as nice as you in the

32:45

industry, because I don't think so. I mean,

32:48

I don't think so. One

32:51

of the things I always talked about with artists because

32:53

I've had many independent artists on my show

32:56

as well as people who are signed to a label. Obviously

32:58

there are benefits to being with the label. All you get the money,

33:00

you get the team, You've got the aton, right,

33:03

But indie artists feel

33:06

like they some have sworn that they would

33:08

never sign to label because of

33:10

all the quote shady things that happened

33:12

at a label. What do you have to say to that?

33:16

Um, Well, what I have to say is that like the

33:18

moment you are, you

33:20

know, you partner up with anybody, whether it's a record

33:22

label or a manager or at least

33:24

it's there's not like a thing where like you're

33:26

not paying them a monthly fee to like, you

33:28

know, work for you. And like, like what I'm

33:31

saying is I hear, I hear what? You don't

33:33

make money unless you make money, don't succeed

33:35

unless you succeed, right, You're not paying a publicist

33:37

to make you feel like, why on earth would

33:40

we be a part of a partner up with anybody?

33:42

If we if we don't plan on having success?

33:44

So then why how comes so many smaller artists

33:47

come to labels and then they kind of get

33:49

or I've not experienced it personally, but they

33:51

say they get put on the back burner in a sense,

33:53

and then the bigger artists get all the money while

33:55

the smaller artists are kind of just forgotten about. I

33:57

mean, that's that's not that's definitely

34:00

like a scorn lover would say it, right, it's

34:02

just like there, it's it's I

34:04

will say, nothing to do with like a bigger

34:06

or smaller artists or just more more

34:09

like it's a more strategic thing. Like if

34:11

you if you burn through all

34:13

of your budget when you don't have the right song, then

34:16

your your longevity is going to be very short.

34:19

You know that makes sense better to every

34:22

every time you you release a song,

34:24

And I look at it like this, like every

34:26

time you release a song, you're pulling a favor, whether it's

34:28

from a playlist or to add your song from

34:31

a podcast, to feature your song, from your

34:33

fans, to to to go support and listen

34:35

to the music. And if the song isn't

34:38

great, the next time, it's gonna be harder

34:40

to do that. And then the next time, I actually

34:42

it's gonna be even harder. It's a lots, yeah,

34:45

I feel like and everyone actually yeah, and

34:47

and not every song has to be I mean you could

34:49

you could release some stuff just for you know, viral,

34:51

you know, from fans and stuff to keep everybody, like, you

34:54

know, entertained and to make sure that people

34:56

have new content. But I think there's also

34:58

an art and a strategy to pushing

35:00

the button when you have the right

35:02

thing and you see that there's And the crazy thing is

35:04

we we live in a time where the moment

35:07

something comes out, you're able to see real stats.

35:09

How many people on you know, whether

35:11

it's new Music Friday, whatever the playlist is, how many

35:13

people are adding this song to the playlist

35:16

when they hear it, how many people are skipping it, how

35:18

long are they listening to you? You can see all this

35:20

stuff right now. All the data is available, so you were

35:23

able to tell like it's almost like a case study before

35:25

you even which is so helpful.

35:27

It's amazing. Yes, you're able to see like right

35:30

away, like even if it's a smaller case study, like

35:32

even if it's with a thousand people that came across

35:34

the song, how many people added to their personal

35:36

playlists, how many people are replaying and how

35:38

many people it's there's so many

35:41

things that you can data. We have so many

35:43

tools now that didn't expect ten years

35:45

ago from I do think that there's something to

35:47

having a following on social media is obviously you get

35:49

a bigger reach. So there's that, there's

35:51

the stats you just talked about. I mean, there's

35:54

there's the community you can find, the community that the

35:56

artist vibes with. So I feel

35:58

like there's a lot of advantages and

36:00

makes your job much easier. And patients

36:03

is key. Yeah, it's so key to just have patience

36:06

for any artists out there that

36:08

is assigned to a company. I think, I mean

36:10

well, and and and by the way, I mean there are I'm

36:12

sure there are, like, like, I know how

36:15

how my team works, you know how I don't know how

36:17

you know, I mean every team works differently,

36:20

So I'm sure there are nightmares

36:22

stories as well. So so you sound like you kind

36:24

of get in there with them and really support them

36:26

like a family member. I mean, honestly, I do it from the heart.

36:28

Of course. I can tell. I'm a real music fan, obsessed

36:30

with music. Yeah, I love hits, I

36:33

love pop of all is your favorite artists right

36:35

now that you're not representing a song guy, Okay,

36:37

So I

36:39

like songs and every genre well,

36:42

I mean I go through every every week. It's

36:44

funny because there's about I think I don't know what. I don't

36:46

know if I've counted, but it's about a hundred songs on New Music

36:48

Friday. I think I guess like each week to

36:50

come out and every Friday like recycles,

36:54

so like all week, I'm trying to get through

36:56

the whole playlist to hear everything. And I

36:58

have my own personal playlists for every

37:00

genre. So I make like a personal playlist

37:02

for the genre, and I'll add to my personal

37:05

for listening pleasure, and then I listened to them. I get

37:07

excited because there's all this new stuff that some

37:09

of it I know, some of it I I've heard once

37:11

from and I've added to my so it's exciting

37:13

to listen. I actually listened as a fan too, and I get

37:15

excited when I go to the playlist. I have a

37:18

like a chill R and B playlist. Tell me

37:20

what's on your chill R and B. That's like my favorite genre?

37:22

Really? Oh yeah, one toll for days.

37:25

Well there's the old school I like old school

37:27

R and B. Well, yeah, so this is what I have, an old school

37:29

R and B play but the chill R and B

37:31

is more newer stuff. It

37:33

was actually inspired by I heard this, uh Sabrina

37:36

Clardie who was signed to it to APG. She

37:38

had I Belonged to You song that

37:41

I was like, she's amazing. She's amazing, so

37:43

that that song inspired me to do like. I

37:45

think one of my friends works with her. I'm pretty sure. Does

37:47

she have long, round, curly hair and she's

37:49

beautiful. Okay, my friend Dina, I'm

37:51

pretty sure works with her. She works

37:54

with French Montana. Her sister works with The

37:56

Weekend. I'm pretty sure you know them.

37:59

It's in your email. But yeah,

38:01

tell me what's on here? I mean, I have oh my god,

38:04

We'll have Anne Marie and there's

38:06

Funny's two een movies. We have an Anne Marie that's

38:08

like a pop ars and it's spelled like. One of them

38:10

has a space, one has no space. There's

38:13

an R and B one that's awesome.

38:15

She's not signed to our company, but he's

38:17

awesome. I don't know. A bunch of stuff in here. Just tell

38:20

me, Like I mean, I have

38:22

a lot of tell me one more. I want to get weird

38:24

tonight with my husband. Give me

38:26

one more golden song. And here's a bunch

38:28

of different things. What's the best one to like get? You

38:30

know, a girl's over the

38:32

music is going. I think I think Anne Marie

38:35

Is that popping for you? It's

38:38

just popping for all of us? Is it is

38:40

a vibe? All right? Well, I'm glad we got

38:42

to go through your some of your list because you're like the

38:45

music king. So what advice

38:47

I want to just wrap this up with, what advice you would give

38:49

somebody who wants to make it in this

38:51

industry. It's a very, very tough industry to

38:53

get into. Obviously, not everyone is as

38:55

hands on compassionate as

38:58

you helpful. I mean, I can a million adjectives

39:01

to describe you, but I'm pretty sure our listeners get your

39:03

vibe by now. You are clearly very

39:05

influential in the in the space of music.

39:08

That's why you're here. You literally pick

39:10

people out of hundreds of songs that

39:12

you're getting a day, and you're making stars

39:14

out of them. What advice would you give

39:17

somebody who's listening to this podcast right now,

39:19

who lives, breathes, dreams

39:22

music like you, and they want to make it, or

39:24

at least they want to do something in music that they

39:26

don't have to be like the next Rihanna, but they want to

39:28

be in the industry. What advice do you have to give to

39:30

them? Well, my advice is I mean a couple of things.

39:33

One, if if you are an artist and you're

39:35

you're set on that, I think you have to know the importance

39:37

of having a great song origin because that will

39:40

change everything. You know, we live in a time

39:42

when stuff goes viral, and and you can't force

39:44

people to make something go viral. They

39:46

have to like it, to replay it or to reposted

39:49

or whether it's a well. I mean, there's two

39:51

sides of something going viral. One is the actual content

39:53

and the others they actually liked the record if so,

39:56

it's two ways something go viral, and songs

39:58

go viral just because people like the song that I've

40:00

seen Obviously, like there's memes and stuff that's different.

40:02

I'm talking about like a song that actually gets replayed

40:04

and stuff. So but I think finding the right

40:07

song is so important because it also

40:09

will establish the direction for your project.

40:11

But I think outside of that, like as a general advice,

40:14

I think you kind of have to find your

40:16

lane and be realistic. There's

40:18

so many sides of music. There's publishing and

40:22

songwriting, and then there's like you know, the

40:24

the live touring side, and the agents

40:26

and and and management, and I mean there's

40:28

so many sides to music. You want to kind

40:30

of be realistic and see where do I fit in the best and

40:32

where what I perform the best. You know,

40:35

some people are incredible

40:37

at at a marketing and creative thinking,

40:39

and there's so many departments at a record label

40:41

too, so it's like there's some people that are amazing

40:43

from marketing department, not necessarily in are

40:46

some people that are better at an are It's like, but

40:48

I think you kind of got to find out where you fit like

40:50

the best, and where you can be one of the best. Like

40:52

what can you be one of the best in the world at, Not

40:54

like, oh I'm good at this, Like what can you be

40:56

like incredible at and find your

40:59

lane there and have some kind

41:01

of I think side hustle

41:03

in the meantime to hold you over so you don't

41:05

have a timeline like it's okay if it takes you, uh,

41:08

five years, it's okay if it takes you six months.

41:10

I mean, I think you don't really know how long it's

41:13

going to take. So if you have something

41:15

else that actually generates income in

41:17

the meantime so that you don't have to like kind

41:19

of you know, fall

41:22

on on on your face like so early,

41:24

right, because that's when people quit. Yes,

41:27

and you didn't quit, and you just kept your hustles

41:29

going and you didn't just have a side hustle. By the way,

41:31

it wasn't singular you.

41:34

You didn't sleep, but you loved it, so

41:36

it was okay. I get that. It was

41:38

so nice having you here today. I just

41:40

to prove the point. Last time I saw him, he was

41:43

bringing one of his artists, and and now I'm You're

41:45

on the other side of the table. So I'm really glad we got to

41:47

get to know each other a little more. Um,

41:49

I want all of your artists to come into

41:51

our show, will play their music. I

41:54

would love that. And you have one last

41:56

chance to give a shout out to one more artist and

41:59

we'll end on them. Oh and that's

42:01

and that's a big pressure because we're

42:03

ending on it. But this doesn't

42:05

mean this is your favorite one. It just means it's another one

42:07

you want people to check out. Well, yeah, so there's

42:09

this, this, there's artists I just signed kill

42:12

Boy. That's incredible. What

42:14

makes it so different is that she actually produces

42:17

her own stuff. And she's not only an amazing

42:20

artist, she's also an amazing writer and producer.

42:22

She produces better than half the people that I get stuff

42:24

from, and she's like, you just sign her,

42:27

Yeah, and she's actually making her own hits, Like I

42:29

mean, it's are you super excited about her?

42:32

And she's smart, She's also open, she loves collaborating.

42:34

She's just really really

42:36

awesome, great energy and

42:38

just all around she She already has two songs

42:41

on Spotify. I'm gonna have to check that out,

42:43

and you guys have to check it out. But guess what I'm gonna do, you

42:45

guys, solid I'm gonna end this show

42:48

with a little kill boy baby way

43:09

the fun, fun,

43:19

fun fun,

43:24

everybody's give way the fucking biscos

43:27

on phone and kin the fact, don't

43:29

leave us on a love like a thing for crooking

43:31

on even want the cut in back. There's

43:33

somebody fucker spending punching over petty

43:35

percents and now I want to just pay my bread.

43:38

Don't wn a couple of Lincoln and Pink with the

43:40

purple on the mesode this time he's gonna have

43:42

to spend I know nothing day

43:44

once I have a point, but I so pay

43:47

me. And there's got a way, the way, the way, the fun,

43:50

the sugars, the baby's maid. Now

43:52

it's a little fish, no fading like some crazy

43:55

health not tho he

43:57

was saying, I'm at the studio. I

44:00

was looking for me like white a water wait

44:02

a wait a water ready

44:08

fu wa.

44:22

I'm come turning on the down thing, picking

44:24

my assess, and don't never ze me for ship,

44:26

because not to stay while I still get my house and

44:29

ducking brides. A bridge is still as an unline

44:31

bases. And now we're taking down to if I was god

44:33

to step it down in the bridges down to its last,

44:36

they're just not the only thing you know to do a range

44:38

kish and fishing, but hill because

44:40

he always misses high. I really

44:43

would have never been so down there if it

44:45

wasn't for the wooded ship. But I never say

44:47

thank you. Just shut my dick, Can

44:49

my skate up the shot kick and leave

44:51

a little ship? Don't

44:57

read the fun? Got

45:00

fucking little little

45:04

little? Why

45:09

don't fun? Behind

45:13

the influence of the production of I Heart Radio

45:15

and t DC Media