0:00

Hi everyone. We've

0:00

set up this being an engineer

0:03

podcast as an industry knowledge

0:03

repository, if you will, we hope

0:08

it'll be a tool where engineers

0:08

can learn about and connect with

0:10

other companies technologies,

0:10

people, resources and

0:13

opportunities. So make some

0:13

connections and enjoy the show

0:19

123

0:28

Rebelle Rally is an off road navigation competition been training for

0:30

just about a year.

0:33

It's been really empowering to

0:33

meet a bunch of badass women.

0:36

Can I say badass?

0:37

I am in the R1 T

0:37

with Lily. She really brings a

0:40

spunk

0:41

to a whole bunch

0:41

of women doing things that a lot

0:44

of society thinks that women can do.

0:50

Hello, and welcome

0:50

to another exciting adventure

0:53

here on the being an engineer

0:53

podcast. I am super excited for

0:58

our two guests today. Alex

0:58

Anderson and Lilly Macaruso,

1:02

Alex and Lily are both engineers

1:02

at Rivian. An innovative

1:06

automotive company specializing

1:06

in electric vehicles and known

1:09

for its commitment to

1:09

sustainability and cutting edge

1:13

technology in the Eevee market.

1:13

They recently competed in the

1:17

Rebelle Rally, which is the

1:17

longest Off Road Rally in the

1:21

United States an eight day 1600

1:21

mile test not of speed, but of

1:26

endurance tactical driving and

1:26

precision navigation using only

1:30

a map and compass, Alex and Lily

1:30

Welcome to the show.

1:34

Thanks for having us.

1:36

So I really truly

1:36

have been very excited for this

1:40

episode, because I am totally a

1:40

Rivian fanboy. I own a Rivian

1:46

R1T and people ask me sometimes,

1:46

do you like to truck? Are you

1:49

happy with the rivian? And

1:49

honest my my answer is always

1:54

it's the best thing I've ever

1:54

bought. And that is 100% true.

2:00

It almost I'm just gonna gush

2:00

for just another 30 seconds. And

2:03

then we'll move on to the true

2:03

purpose of the show, which is

2:07

talking with the two of you. But

2:07

it feels like driving a work of

2:11

art to me, you know, they say

2:11

that art is valuable because of

2:15

the way it's supposed to make

2:15

you feel. traditional art,

2:19

paintings, sculptures, that sort

2:19

of thing has never really done

2:21

that for me but when I get in

2:21

the Rivian, I always smile and

2:25

it's just a pleasure and a

2:25

delight to drive and own this

2:30

vehicle. So gushing is over. But

2:30

I love Rivian I love the brand.

2:35

And so excited to talk with both

2:35

You View about the Rebelle

2:38

Rally, and all of the

2:38

engineering that went on behind

2:41

the scenes to produce this

2:41

amazing vehicle that allows you

2:44

both to, to win the Rally. So

2:44

with that, maybe we can start

2:50

with Lilly and then Alex, let's

2:50

just talk about what what made

2:53

you decide to become an

2:53

engineer?

2:57

Oh, well, first

2:57

off, happy that you enjoy our

3:00

truck so much we do as well.

3:00

That's why we're here for so

3:04

many days and so much training

3:04

what's what's your

3:07

configuration?

3:08

It's the adventure configuration.

3:11

Like, like color

3:11

like do you go off roading and

3:13

what?

3:15

I've done some off

3:15

roading in it. Mostly I just I

3:20

love driving to work in it. That

3:20

sounds kind of lame, I know. But

3:23

that's most of the driving I do.

3:23

And it's just such a pleasure to

3:26

drive.

3:27

So it's interesting, you brought the comparison of art into it. I

3:29

also never fancied myself into

3:34

traditional art. And then I took

3:34

up TIG welding, because so many

3:38

Project CARS required help so.

3:38

And that's whatever, I also

3:44

started to feel more connection

3:44

into engineering and art in that

3:47

sense, because it takes more

3:47

than just solving the solution

3:51

or solving the problem. It takes

3:51

creative solutions. And I think

3:55

that's where we get to be

3:55

artistic, which is an art to

3:59

most of the rest of the world. Cool.

4:01

Did you want to

4:01

answer his question?

4:03

Oh, sorry. I got

4:03

into engineering because I first

4:08

went into medicine. And I wanted

4:08

to be able to work on cars and

4:15

pay my way through school. And

4:15

it turned out that racing and

4:18

working on cars and engineering

4:18

was more fun. So I left pre med,

4:22

two weeks before my MCAT testing

4:22

and then went into school for a

4:26

focus of engineering and high

4:26

performance racing. My dad gave

4:30

me a high five and I think my

4:30

Mom had a heart attack in the

4:34

most supportive manner possible.

4:34

And

4:37

I got into

4:37

engineering I think it was it

4:39

was a long time coming. I

4:39

attributed a lot to how my

4:43

parents raised me, my dad and I

4:43

would Tinker kind of in the shop

4:48

a lot whether it was working on

4:48

like wood projects or like Lily

4:52

said welding or such like that.

4:52

So I just really started to

4:55

develop the spatial skills

4:55

young. And then my mom I think

5:00

develop more of the personality

5:00

skills to be a woman in a male

5:03

dominated field like this. So

5:03

she taught me how to stick up

5:06

for myself, and really just hard

5:06

work ethic. So from there, I

5:12

learned more of the engineering

5:12

skills from first robotics,

5:17

started learning, CAD

5:17

manufacturing, machining, and

5:21

really got exposure to other

5:21

professional engineers. And me,

5:26

my siblings really are like the

5:26

first generation of my family to

5:30

go to college and graduate. So I

5:30

didn't really have that exposure

5:34

to more like a higher education

5:34

early on. So being able to be in

5:38

FIRST Robotics and see like,

5:38

what what else is out there was

5:41

was really cool. So from there,

5:41

I went to the University of

5:44

Michigan and studied mechanical

5:44

engineering, with a

5:48

concentration in manufacturing

5:48

systems. And then I learned

5:51

everything I needed to work for

5:51

an automotive company like

5:53

review. Terrific.

5:54

All right. Thank

5:54

you. My son does first FLL FIRST

5:55

Oh, you should it

5:55

honestly, I anyone that has a

5:58

LEGO League awesome. Yeah. So

5:58

off to tell him that Rivian

6:01

engineers did FIRST LEGO League

6:01

to he'll be really excited.

6:05

kid, I always tell them get them

6:05

into FIRST Robotics because it

6:11

leads to so many learning

6:11

opportunities, scholarships,

6:15

grants, I really recommend that.

6:15

Yeah,

6:18

they just made it into states. Actually. Congratulations, Jones. If

6:19

you're listening to this? Well,

6:23

rivian is a newer company in the

6:23

automotive space. So for those

6:27

who aren't familiar with the

6:27

vehicle can either one of you

6:30

talk through a little bit about

6:30

what it is and why it's unique

6:33

from other production vehicles out there today?

6:36

Go ahead.

6:39

So what makes us

6:39

unique is actually our brand and

6:42

how we interact with it the same

6:42

way that you said it felt like a

6:45

piece of art. And it's all very

6:45

cold materials. How did that

6:49

make you feel? What makes us

6:49

different is the fact that we're

6:52

brand centered. Anyone can take

6:52

apart our car, anyone can learn

6:58

our systems figure out, I mean,

6:58

it would take a lot of reverse

7:02

engineering, hopefully, because

7:02

we've hopefully put so much time

7:05

into it. But it's more so the

7:05

amount of intention we put

7:09

behind the brand of it. I mean, there's definitely the engineering side of problem

7:11

solving and looking into

7:15

different ways to control power,

7:15

like our braking is controlled

7:18

in our quad motors via power

7:18

instead of your traditional

7:21

braking. So coming up with new

7:21

innovations is definitely

7:25

awesome. But in the long side,

7:25

it could actually be reverse

7:29

engineered and never knew

7:29

everyone can figure that out. So

7:31

what makes us different is the

7:31

fact that we look at it as our

7:36

product is in service to other

7:36

people. What are they actually

7:39

taking it out for? And how do we

7:39

break it as many times as

7:43

possible, and validate it as

7:43

many times as possible in these

7:48

crazy scenarios. So that way,

7:48

whenever you take it off

7:50

roading, or whatever you take it

7:50

to the track, you experience, a

7:55

truck or an SUV or a product

7:55

that you love.

7:58

I love that

7:58

answer. And I can tell you that

8:01

for me. I have experienced the

8:01

intentionality behind that

8:05

brand. I want to go outdoors

8:05

more because of it. It almost

8:10

feels like this safety net, you

8:10

know, that I want to take out

8:14

and it's it's going to take care

8:14

of me. It's going to baby me out

8:17

there. And I love that about it.

8:17

Let's let's move on to the rebel

8:23

rally. So for those listeners

8:23

who don't know what it is, Alex,

8:28

can can you talk a little bit

8:28

about what is the rally like

8:31

what are the goals? What are the

8:31

rules? What are the parameters?

8:35

Just a quick, you know, 30/62

8:35

overview?

8:38

Yeah, absolutely.

8:38

So the rebel rally is an eight

8:41

day competition. And it is all

8:41

off road with very minimal

8:46

highway transits. So we are

8:46

going just about 1600 miles off

8:50

road and our vehicles. On top of

8:50

that it is map and paper map and

8:55

compass based navigation. So we

8:55

don't have our phones with us,

8:58

we have no contact with our

8:58

family. And we need to navigate

9:01

through all of the trains,

9:01

mountains, valleys, sand dunes,

9:05

with paper map and compass. So

9:05

we're chasing checkpoints

9:08

throughout the day. And it's not

9:08

a rally based off speed, like

9:12

how fast you get to these

9:12

checkpoints. But rather it's

9:15

it's how close you get to the

9:15

very center of the checkpoint.

9:18

So it's a bullseye. There's

9:18

sometimes a big green flag

9:22

there. And those are more safety

9:22

points. There's blue

9:24

checkpoints, which are a little

9:24

harder navigate to and then the

9:28

black checkpoints there's

9:28

nothing there. You just have to

9:30

terrain associate look around,

9:30

trust your distance and heading.

9:34

And then the closer you get to

9:34

that center of the Bullseye is

9:37

the more points you get.

9:39

Amazing. And this

9:39

This is for women only. Did that

9:44

change the dynamic of the

9:44

competition? Do you think?

9:48

I don't think

9:48

because it was women only it

9:50

changed the dynamic of the

9:50

competition. I think it's the I

9:54

guess the way that they instill

9:54

interaction between competitors.

9:59

So uh, lot of the competitors

9:59

are also trainers for the rally.

10:03

So they have their own private

10:03

trainings that they host

10:06

outside, and they really try to

10:06

share their knowledge and

10:08

passion for off road. So Nina

10:08

Barlow was one of our trainers.

10:13

And I remember she was the first

10:13

one that taught me how to how to

10:16

chase a checkpoint and how to

10:16

plot it on a map. And then on

10:20

the rally, she was the one that

10:20

was helping us, we helped her

10:23

sometimes. So there's really

10:23

like a cooperative atmosphere

10:26

that's been established.

10:28

Nice. Did each of

10:28

you have different roles as you

10:31

were going through the

10:31

competition? Or did that switch

10:34

back and forth? Are they unique

10:34

rules that how did that work?

10:37

Lilly, you're smiling, you have

10:37

something you want to say she

10:40

does.

10:41

So in the rally,

10:41

it's a, we have to put each

10:46

other before ourselves, you own

10:46

100% of everything that's

10:49

happening possible as your own

10:49

piece. So I primarily drove and

10:55

now and Alex primarily

10:55

navigated, but it doesn't mean

10:59

that if we missed something, or

10:59

we were too far off, I then

11:02

looked at her and went, I can't

11:02

believe you did that. It was we

11:05

made decisions together that

11:05

entire time. And we got each

11:09

other there, like there was one

11:09

time in which so essentially,

11:13

you're looking at a paper map,

11:13

and there's little squiggle

11:16

lines, and you're just trying to

11:16

interpret the different squiggle

11:18

lines and their colors and

11:18

hopefully a distance and you're

11:23

just set a direction you try to

11:23

go. Now a certain squiggle line

11:27

could be a very big road. Or it

11:27

could be a path that someone

11:32

took 20 years ago whenever they

11:32

made the map. So we get to a

11:37

very big road, and all of a

11:37

sudden, about halfway down, it

11:41

just becomes a massive boulder

11:41

field. And I'm talking boulders

11:45

the size of our tires. So most

11:45

people would say, Okay, we turn

11:52

around we find another route.

11:52

Alex are very committed in the

11:55

sense of No, like, how, how long

11:55

could it be a boulder field,

11:58

it's okay, there must be just a

11:58

little bit of wash, and it'd be

12:01

great on the other side. Two

12:01

hours later, it was still a

12:04

boulder field. So then we have

12:04

to traverse a boulder field to

12:10

then get to what we thought

12:10

would be another road. And it's

12:12

a powerline road. funfact also

12:12

wasn't a real road anymore. And

12:17

so it's these scenarios in which

12:17

she feels bad because she

12:20

thought it was a an actual road,

12:20

I feel bad because I also didn't

12:23

turn us around. And we own that

12:23

moment together. And it's

12:26

knowing those soft skills, as

12:26

you would kind of hinted at

12:30

earlier of just because I have

12:30

feedback to give doesn't mean

12:34

that in this exact moment, it's

12:34

going to help us in any shape or

12:38

form. So in those roles, both of

12:38

us can do either skill. She's a

12:44

phenomenal driver, but she

12:44

chooses to navigate. I'm a

12:48

moderate navigator. But I drive

12:48

the car because we each respect

12:56

each other in that sense. So

12:56

purpose roles, but respectfully

13:01

can do both.

13:02

And we've very

13:02

intentionally trained up that

13:05

way. So so we competed last

13:05

year. And last year, we did the

13:09

majority of our training

13:09

alongside some of our other

13:12

competitors. And each and every

13:12

one of us trained as a driver

13:16

and the navigator and that

13:16

decision to break off. It was it

13:19

was natural in our setting. But

13:19

that wasn't decided until much

13:22

closer to the competition. So we

13:22

would be able to relate to each

13:26

other's roles have sympathy for

13:26

each other out on the course.

13:29

And then if something happens

13:29

know how to take over for the

13:32

other person and vice versa.

13:34

The best way I

13:34

could describe it is any

13:36

engineer who has had to

13:36

wonderfully work with a studio

13:39

team, they are very focused on

13:39

design and aesthetic and how

13:42

it's going to make someone feel and an engineer is like but it doesn't work. So it can be the

13:44

most beautiful piece of art, but

13:48

it doesn't function. So imagine

13:48

constantly trying to be both of

13:52

those pieces at any given

13:52

moment. And just imagine getting

13:55

to work with someone in studio

13:55

that also fully understood

14:00

engineering logic. It's pretty

14:00

great that we both went and did

14:05

both sides, because it just made

14:05

the conversation much better,

14:08

easier and more solution driven.

14:10

Yeah, that makes a

14:10

lot of sense. Alex, you had

14:13

talked a little bit about the

14:13

training. Tell us a little bit

14:16

more about that. What What was

14:16

the training? Like? I imagine

14:20

that rivian didn't just let you

14:20

stop being engineers for a while

14:23

so you could devote yourselves

14:23

full time to training. How did

14:26

you how did you find time? How

14:26

much time were you able to

14:29

spend? How did you manage that?

14:29

You know, training work life

14:33

balance all of that.

14:34

Yeah, managing

14:34

work life balance. I don't know

14:37

if we did that. We did not.

14:37

Okay. So training for the rally

14:43

and then obviously competing in

14:43

the rally. It's a full time job

14:46

in itself. And then on top of

14:46

that I work on the body

14:49

exteriors team and Lily is on

14:49

the special projects team. We

14:53

both have very demanding and

14:53

time consuming jobs. But one

14:57

thing that was really helpful,

14:57

at least in My scenario my my

15:01

team really supported. everyone

15:01

on my team was extremely eager

15:05

to help out. They took some of

15:05

my pre design presentations to

15:09

the people that needed to

15:09

approve them in my absence, but

15:13

yeah, so last year, we trained

15:13

up for about eight months. And I

15:17

want to say it was about a one

15:17

week per month that we were out

15:20

in the desert chasing

15:20

checkpoints, so to only be at

15:23

your full time job 75% of the

15:23

time. Other people definitely

15:27

had to step in, and there was a

15:27

huge support network back home

15:29

for us.

15:30

Nice, Lily,

15:30

anything you want to add to that?

15:34

Yeah. So

15:34

training not only came from us

15:37

it was this decision of what are

15:37

our goals? And what do we want

15:40

to achieve very early on,

15:40

because otherwise, we're just

15:42

kind of roaming out in the

15:42

desert, and you can be better or

15:46

you can be worse, but we

15:46

actually set the goals of, we

15:50

didn't want to get any penalties, because essentially, that's like, demerits. You can

15:52

control if you were on time or

15:56

not your own time management,

15:56

you can control if you sped or

15:59

not, sometimes because our car

15:59

releases to go fast. So that's

16:02

difficult to not do.

16:05

Well, that is realized there was a speed limit. What was the speed limit?

16:08

Oh, so it was

16:08

day dependent. So on average, it

16:11

was about 85 kilometers. So

16:11

like, imagine 60 miles per hour,

16:16

roughly. But that's 60 miles per

16:16

hour while off roading if you

16:21

could do 60 Maintaining up a

16:21

canyon, like, by all means you

16:24

don't have free runner. Yeah,

16:24

that's pretty fast off roading.

16:28

Yep, so certain sections have

16:28

higher or lower speed limits.

16:32

And it also pertains to the type

16:32

of permitting they have. So

16:35

there's certain areas in which

16:35

there are animals in the area

16:39

like tortoise, rare desert

16:39

tortoise that you can't touch,

16:44

you can't move you can't do

16:44

anything with and if you come

16:46

across it, you essentially just

16:46

wait, literally wait on the

16:49

tortoise. So

16:53

Did you see any

16:53

interesting wildlife out there

16:56

for eight days?

16:57

Oh my God, I

16:57

still have this image in my

17:00

head. It was last year. And

17:00

we're an Eevee. So we're silent.

17:03

So when you come up on animals,

17:03

they they don't get spooked the

17:06

same way they might in a nice

17:06

vehicle. And I remember looking

17:10

out my passenger window and

17:10

there was two wild horses

17:13

running with us. And I'm not

17:13

joking. I was in there make the

17:18

most gorgeous feed. And I'm like

17:18

freaking out looking at these

17:21

horses. Lily, like I need to

17:21

focus on driving.

17:23

Amazing. It was

17:23

beyond experience.

17:26

Yes! it it took

17:26

a full intention of what we

17:30

wanted to do and what we wanted

17:30

to accomplish. And then the

17:33

amount of trainers and people

17:33

that believed in us internally

17:37

and externally. We trained with

17:37

Nina we trained with Bill Burke

17:40

and his team out of Grand

17:40

Junction. So it was a very

17:44

intentional of who knows how to

17:44

do this because we don't and how

17:47

do we figure out how to

17:47

accomplish that. So training was

17:50

great. There's also another

17:50

animal story in which we were

17:53

off roading. And there were, so

17:53

you're in the middle of nowhere.

17:56

And there's these cattle gates.

17:56

And you're like, Yeah, okay, I

18:00

can drive through these and but

18:00

you don't always see cattle

18:03

based on where you are, especially the more prominent off roading areas. And I'm in

18:05

this highly technical area, we

18:09

had just passed through a cattle

18:09

gate. And the brush is as tall

18:12

as our vehicle is. And a cow's

18:12

head just pokes out, and Alex

18:17

starts screaming and I'm

18:17

freaking out its about to kill

18:21

us. I was so scared. Not because of

18:23

a cow. Let me let me make that

18:28

clear. It was just because there

18:28

was this massive object moving

18:31

on my window and my window was

18:31

down. I got so sorry. Yes. So

18:37

it's moments like that.

18:39

That reminds me of

18:39

a story. Just very quick tangent

18:42

here. My son when he was really

18:42

young had let's just call it a

18:47

medical episode. He's fine. Now

18:47

everything turned out great. But

18:50

it was he was fine. Anyway, he

18:50

was in the hospital for a day or

18:53

two. And the doctor said, this,

18:53

this might happen again, kids

18:56

who have this, they tend to have

18:56

it again. So be on the lookout

19:00

for it. Anyway, we came home

19:00

from the hospital. And a day or

19:04

two later, I hear my wife

19:04

screaming and I'm thinking oh,

19:08

no, it happened again, right? So

19:08

I'm panicking freaking out. And

19:12

I ran out there and I said, What's what's going on? Is he okay? And she says, there's a

19:14

bird in the house. There's a

19:18

bird and like, come on. Really?

19:18

That's what you're yelling

19:22

about. Anyway,

19:24

so you're not

19:24

sure do. You hear your sons

19:32

sons? Okay. I'm glad it was.

19:33

Thank you. Yes,

19:33

yes. So speaking of other

19:38

creatures out there, did you

19:38

encounter other competitors

19:42

during the rally? Or is everyone

19:42

kind of isolated?

19:45

So it depends on

19:45

the day, you essentially all

19:49

start off on the same start line

19:49

most of the time unless you're

19:52

self camping, but most of the

19:52

time you start and end at the

19:54

same place for safety measures

19:54

also for the camaraderie if you

19:58

go do this thing for eight days

19:58

and never see another Human,

20:01

it's already isolating. So if

20:01

you don't see the already

20:04

isolated people, and it depends

20:04

on where you are, some of the

20:09

checkpoints are easier, some of

20:09

them are harder. So typically,

20:12

at the easier ones, you'll kind

20:12

of have like a, they're meant to

20:15

be a health check, they're off a

20:15

big road, they should be very

20:19

easy to get to. And it's to make

20:19

sure that everyone's okay. And

20:23

so there, we would see a lot of

20:23

people but you get to a black

20:26

diamond checkpoint, and there's

20:26

nothing notating that anywhere.

20:29

And you might see a couple of

20:29

other people and you kind of

20:32

judge how far off they are from

20:32

you. And then you also like have

20:35

to trust your gut. Okay, well,

20:35

there were a couple of times

20:39

where we would look at other

20:39

people, oh, well, they, they

20:42

just must be wrong. Like, of

20:42

course, we're closer to it,

20:44

like, we know exactly where we

20:44

are. And then we're, we would

20:48

click our tracker. And that

20:48

would be a big slice of humble

20:51

pie. We're like, nope, what right?

20:52

Did you just keep

20:52

driving? So you have what some

20:55

kind of GPS unit? And when you

20:55

think you're on the mark you you

20:59

click it? And then it tells you

20:59

if you're close or not? Is that

21:01

how it works?

21:03

Correct. So we

21:03

have Iridium satellite trackers,

21:06

and which, essentially, is only

21:06

it only spits out a time and a

21:10

location based on GPS

21:10

coordinates. So that's the only

21:14

piece of and like technology

21:14

that we get to interact with for

21:17

the entire span of the rally,

21:17

and you guard this tracker, like

21:22

it's your child, because it

21:22

controls your points and your

21:26

systems. And yeah, at one point,

21:26

ours malfunctioned. And it

21:29

showed us a degree off, and a

21:29

degree off and a lat long, like

21:35

we're not even in like, we're

21:35

not even a kilometer within the

21:39

right place. To be that far off,

21:39

would be like, if you're trying

21:42

to make something have a, like

21:42

a, like a torsion force, and

21:48

then all of a sudden, it's a

21:48

compression near like, not what

21:51

I was aiming for.

21:52

It doesn't calculate. Yeah.

21:54

And to add to

21:54

that, that is the most

21:57

stressful, like 20 seconds of

21:57

our life when we click the

22:00

tracker, and then we're waiting

22:00

for the coordinates back and you

22:04

that's when you know whether or

22:04

not you wide missed, which means

22:06

you get a penalty or with it, or

22:06

if you're within that Bullseye

22:09

essentially. So when like Lily

22:09

said, when our tracker

22:13

malfunction, and we wrote that

22:13

down, we freaked out for a good

22:16

20 minutes. And we're like,

22:16

where are we? We don't know

22:18

where we are. And then we did a

22:18

sanity check. We looked around,

22:21

we're like, No, this part of you

22:21

makes sense. We're on top of a

22:23

mountain there's a mound at 90

22:23

degrees. There's another mound

22:26

at 110. And we trusted our gut.

22:26

And when we clicked again, it

22:30

was right. So a lot of it. Yeah,

22:30

it was just taking in as much

22:34

information as we could. It

22:34

didn't turn out we were right

22:36

then. But many other times we've

22:36

been like one mountain range off

22:40

so

22:42

She makes sense.

22:42

Um, like a very calm story. She

22:44

hiked a mountain three times and

22:44

then called into our dispatch.

22:48

Oh, isn't okay. And they went

22:48

yeah, but our our ended it shows

22:51

you in the dynamics and we were

22:51

like, cool for us. It didn't so.

22:58

How did your

22:58

relationship with the vehicle

23:01

change over the course of those

23:01

eight days?

23:04

Definitely is a

23:04

relationship. That's a good word

23:07

to describe it. Our truck even

23:07

has a name each year. Last year,

23:10

it was Glenda this year, it was

23:10

Timmy so.

23:13

Terrific. Mine is Eleanor.

23:15

Oh, wow.

23:16

That's such a good name.

23:17

That's right.

23:20

Like for exactly

23:20

Rivian, I let it go. It's very,

23:23

that's really good. So for us, I

23:23

would say the relationship

23:29

escalates in the sense of we've

23:29

been out in trucks and SUVs and

23:34

our product a lot and have a lot

23:34

of seat time validating these

23:36

vehicles. And anything can still

23:36

happen. I mean, you could have

23:42

the one car that has the

23:42

percentage of never happening or

23:45

the near zero possibility and it

23:45

could still happen. I mean, it's

23:50

nothing is perfect. And to be in

23:50

our vehicle for that long and

23:55

have that amount of trust. Every

23:55

night, we would still go into

23:59

the mechanics pit and walk

23:59

through our vehicle because it's

24:01

a health check. It would be

24:01

crazy if you didn't. And

24:05

everyone would just because

24:05

we're the new Evie on the block.

24:08

So everyone would come up with

24:08

like, what broke? Nothing,

24:11

absolutely nothing. We're just

24:11

trying to check in make sure.

24:14

Yeah, and it's a

24:14

it's a really common phrase in

24:17

the rally to call the vehicle,

24:17

your third teammate. And that

24:21

couldn't be more accurate. Lily

24:21

and I have a huge level of

24:25

respect for each other. But we

24:25

also have an even huger level of

24:30

respect for our truck. Because

24:30

if we didn't, it wouldn't have

24:34

made it through eight days if we

24:34

didn't have mechanical sympathy.

24:38

If we didn't know how to take

24:38

specific lines or what to put

24:40

the vehicle through it, it

24:40

wouldn't mean it and that's

24:42

that's any vehicle out there. So

24:42

having that mutual level of

24:46

respect for your vehicle. And

24:46

like Lou said, doing those

24:50

checks every single night, not

24:50

damaging it. It was it was

24:53

really important.

24:56

Well, let me take

24:56

a very short break here share

24:58

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24:58

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25:01

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25:01

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25:04

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25:04

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production yields for OEMs.

25:16

Today, we're speaking with Lily

25:16

and Alex at Rivian. And talking

25:20

about the rebel rally, of which

25:20

they were the the winners this

25:25

year. And you this is your

25:25

second year competing in the

25:29

rallies, right?

25:30

Yeah, this is our

25:30

second year. Last year was our

25:33

rookie year and we received

25:33

actually the Rookie of the Year

25:36

trophy. We got fourth place last year,

25:38

Which is no small

25:38

feat. I mean, first place your

25:41

first year, I think there, I'm

25:41

not, I'm not going to guess. But

25:45

there are quite a few

25:45

competitors, right. It's not

25:48

like there are four competitors,

25:48

and you got fourth place. There,

25:51

I don't know 50 100, something like that.

25:53

So on average,

25:53

there is about 60 teams or so

25:57

that come in compete. And it's a

25:57

badge of honor just to finish

26:02

the rally, let alone be able to

26:02

place well in it. It's a badge

26:06

of honor for a manufacturer,

26:06

it's for us to have the mental

26:09

rigidity, and that much

26:09

cooperation between all three

26:12

things together. But most people

26:12

go to just be able to finish not

26:17

even place in the rally. So for

26:17

us to then understand that we

26:22

made fourth because oh, by the

26:22

way, we don't track our ranking

26:25

during the rally. So we've

26:25

looked at, essentially, you get

26:29

a list in the morning of all of

26:29

your checkpoints. And then at

26:31

nighttime, you get a list of

26:31

your personal accuracy. And

26:35

that's what we would look at to

26:35

make sure. Okay, where are we

26:39

close to this point where we

26:39

further away? How do we make

26:42

sure we can do better, but it's

26:42

such an individual run your own

26:46

rally event that if you're going

26:46

to go get another checkpoint,

26:50

just because another team is

26:50

five points ahead of you. You'll

26:53

make yourself crazy. And we're

26:53

highly competitive people. So we

26:57

knew that would run us dry.

27:00

I'm sure that

27:00

there were some technical

27:03

advantages, maybe in the Rivian,

27:03

just because of how its

27:07

engineered. I'm curious, and

27:07

we'll talk about that in just a

27:10

minute. But before we get there,

27:10

were there any, were there any

27:14

challenges associated with the

27:14

fact that you were driving an

27:18

Eevee not an Ice Vehicle I

27:18

imagined charging maybe was was

27:22

one of them. But what else was

27:22

was challenging about driving an

27:26

Eevee in the rally.

27:28

Honestly, I don't

27:28

think we were at any sort of

27:32

advantage or disadvantage,

27:32

because we were we were in an

27:34

Eb, we were one of the smallest

27:34

classes out there, there was six

27:39

EVs and then the rest of the 65

27:39

vehicles were ice vehicles. But

27:44

charging was actually a we only

27:44

ever received charge when the

27:47

fuel vehicles received fuel. So

27:47

most of the time, that was at

27:51

night, after you had completed

27:51

your 30 checkpoints for the day,

27:54

all of our vehicles would go

27:54

into this impound, and the fuel

27:58

vehicles would get filled up,

27:58

and then our vehicles with

28:00

charge overnight. And that was

28:00

all completed on all green

28:05

hydrogen. So a truck came in

28:05

with 800 kilograms of hydrogen

28:09

or pounds or kilograms, I could

28:09

be wrong. And in our vehicles

28:13

charged off of all that, so that

28:13

was that was incredible that

28:16

renewable innovations was able

28:16

to make that happen this year.

28:19

And then on the longer transit

28:19

days, or the days like dunes

28:23

where a lot more energy is

28:23

consumed. The fuel vehicles and

28:27

the ice vehicles would receive

28:27

like a midday splash. So that

28:30

would be either a couple gallons

28:30

of fuel or just 2030 minutes of

28:34

charge.

28:35

The rivian has

28:35

some different drive modes, and

28:39

one of them is off road, and you

28:39

can actually adjust the ride

28:44

height of the vehicle as you're

28:44

driving. What were some of the

28:48

terrains that you had to drive

28:48

over and into the different

28:52

drive modes help you in those

28:52

terrains.

28:55

So it's a very

28:55

versatile course you start this

29:01

year, it was up above mammoth.

29:01

By the way, no one knows the

29:04

route or the rally until the day

29:04

of we only get to know the start

29:08

even like a month or so ahead of

29:08

time. And then we know the

29:11

finish as they announced it as

29:11

well. Historically, it's been in

29:14

Glamis. So the amount of drain

29:14

difference in that you're

29:18

looking at mountains, you're looking at Sand, you're looking at short highway sections,

29:20

you're looking at a lot, a lot

29:24

of dirt roads, which we are

29:24

definitely up for. But to your

29:28

point, the different drive modes

29:28

not only made it more capable,

29:31

it also made it more

29:31

comfortable. I've offered a

29:33

decent amount in life and just

29:33

to be able to sit that long and

29:38

not need to be out of the car or

29:38

move around a lot. There's still

29:44

a bit of that you can't just sit

29:44

still forever but it's

29:47

definitely makes it where you

29:47

can offer longer and it's

29:51

quieter so you're not getting

29:51

more fatigued just based on

29:54

engine droning noise, it's a lot

29:54

smoother and then you have so

29:59

much more control As a driver

29:59

almost on feels like from going

30:03

to an ice vehicle into an Eevee,

30:03

you're essentially just flexing

30:08

your foot just a little bit to

30:08

be able to control. And once you

30:11

figure that part out, it's so so

30:11

much better. And then also you

30:15

have region. So it's so much

30:15

more controllable.

30:20

Yeah, Alex, anything to add there?

30:22

The Yeah, the

30:22

only thing I would add there is,

30:26

like you mentioned, there's so

30:26

many different types of terrain

30:29

that we will see in the rally,

30:29

it's eight days, and almost the

30:32

entire length of California,

30:32

we're going over rock crawl,

30:35

sand. And the ravine has a mode

30:35

for each one of those. So the

30:40

torque, it's applying to the

30:40

wheels, how it handles the

30:42

suspension differently, it is

30:42

perfectly tuned for that

30:46

environment. So we're able to

30:46

switch that with just a flick of

30:49

a button. And you can really

30:49

feel the vehicle it if it starts

30:53

to get kind of hung up on a rock

30:53

and you just keep constant pedal

30:56

and apply. You can feel the

30:56

vehicle think and get out of

30:59

those situations. Really well.

31:01

That's amazing. I

31:01

love the engineering behind it.

31:04

What what were a couple of the

31:04

most challenging situations or

31:08

problems that you encountered

31:08

and had to overcome?

31:12

Oh, man, which day

31:15

Your pick.

31:17

You know, I think

31:17

all of the challenges that we

31:20

had to overcome, we we really

31:20

had faced in training. So it was

31:24

just relying on our training.

31:24

And knowing what to do, when we

31:28

got into that. I don't think

31:28

anything was a crazy technical

31:32

train that we couldn't drive or

31:32

get out of. It was really just

31:36

the time pressure, the stress,

31:36

not killing each other out on

31:40

the course. And knowing how to

31:40

work as a team, after eight days

31:45

of very little sleep, and very

31:45

little showers. But I think we

31:49

communicate very strongly.

31:49

Anytime there's an issue we

31:53

addressed it head on. And it

31:53

wasn't we had such a strong

31:57

common goal that it wasn't worth

31:57

dwelling on anything that may

32:00

have frustrated us,

32:01

I frustrated her

32:01

all the time to be clear.

32:04

That's all wait to see. See, it

32:04

doesn't so beautifully. But

32:09

there was there were definitely

32:09

conflicts, and it's how you get

32:13

through it on the other side.

32:13

But if we just agreed with each

32:15

other 100% of the time, we would

32:15

either be really, really good or

32:18

really, really lost. So having

32:18

that conflict and disagreement

32:22

not only helps you understand

32:22

who you're with, it also gives

32:26

them trust that I'm not just

32:26

going to sit here and know that

32:29

you're failing. We're trying to

32:29

accomplish this together. So how

32:33

do we make sure that we talk

32:33

through it? There's actually a

32:36

story too, which Alex probably

32:36

hates. But whenever we were

32:39

first doing training, it was our

32:39

very first training. And the way

32:42

that we bring people in was

32:42

essentially you start out with a

32:45

wilderness first aid, because

32:45

there is a very real side, if

32:49

something happened medically,

32:49

you're out in the middle of

32:51

nowhere. And the first responder

32:51

on your scene is your teammate.

32:54

So you better take great care of

32:54

them and appreciate them because

32:58

that's the person who could

32:58

potentially save your life. And

33:00

so we go through this first aid

33:00

before we start going into off

33:04

roading. And at the end of the

33:04

training, Alex looks at me and

33:07

goes what kind of feedback to

33:07

have and I went, we will eat you

33:10

alive. There's a lot of strong

33:10

personalities. I think that you

33:13

are the smartest person in the room. But if you'd never tell anyone or share your how amazing

33:15

you are, no one will ever know.

33:20

And since then, it has been an

33:20

amazing journey because I've

33:23

seen her even like in our

33:23

conversations. She'll just stop

33:26

be very calm. Look, amigo. No,

33:26

we're not doing that. Here's

33:29

what I think here's what's

33:29

important. And this is what

33:31

we're gonna go to. And it's been

33:31

amazing. And it helped us a lot

33:35

into the second year as well, to

33:35

be able to communicate in that

33:39

sense of if we had differences

33:39

of where we thought we were, we

33:43

would stop. I would express my

33:43

opinion, she would express hers.

33:46

99% of time it was her opinion.

33:46

Because I was like But there's

33:51

this very smooth road that could

33:51

take us to this checkpoint over

33:53

here she goes, No, we're gonna

33:53

take this old Mine Road that

33:57

hasn't existed for 50 years, and

33:57

we will be so much better off

33:59

for it. Okay, let's go do it.

34:01

She's the

34:01

navigator, right? Absolutely

34:04

Drive as free as possible.

34:07

Yes, were there

34:07

any, were there any scary

34:11

moments during the time,

34:11

they're?

34:13

Scary moments. I

34:13

wouldn't necessarily call them

34:17

scary as much as they were just

34:17

stressful. We were always under

34:22

a time challenge and Lily can

34:22

attest to this time is the

34:25

biggest thing that ever stressed

34:25

me out because we I'm the one

34:29

managing the opening and closing

34:29

times. And they're not in a

34:33

clean, concise time. Like this

34:33

one opens at nine o'clock. This

34:36

one opens at 10 It says like

34:36

three hours after your opening

34:40

time. So I have to do the math

34:40

and figure out like when we're

34:43

able to get these checkpoints

34:43

and I'm trying to communicate

34:46

this to Lily while we're being

34:46

shaken around the vehicle. So so

34:50

that was something that was

34:50

really scary for me whenever we

34:53

are five checkpoints away and we

34:53

only have 45 minutes. So I would

34:58

I would just work into a ball

34:58

stressing and Lily is very used

35:02

to that. And she she knows what

35:02

makes me stressed. So we worked

35:05

really well together to

35:05

communicate that and just put a

35:09

plan for the day make sure we

35:09

were in this together and make

35:12

sure I wasn't the one absorbing

35:12

that ball of stress.

35:17

What, since you

35:17

did do this together last year

35:19

as well, what lessons did you

35:19

learn last year that you were

35:23

able to pick over to this year

35:23

and helped you improve your

35:27

performance,

35:28

Great conflict

35:28

resolution, and how to have a

35:32

pretty common for topic that

35:32

keeps coming up

35:34

gonna be Yeah, we just keep talking about.

35:37

It sounds crazy,

35:37

but I think it applies to most

35:39

of life too. You can learn any

35:39

skill, you can take in any kind

35:44

of new skill education, that

35:44

part makes sense. Two plus two

35:49

equals four, like you can solve

35:49

for x. But in order to then

35:53

communicate that no one cares if

35:53

you're right, if you were mean

35:57

about it. So our biggest point

35:57

is to understand where the other

36:02

person was, and when to be able

36:02

to give that feedback. And yes,

36:06

there is a high part of it, in

36:06

which we were very good, and are

36:10

very good at it, because of the

36:10

fact that we trained at it. But

36:14

one of our trainers Bill kept

36:14

telling us that you in a moment

36:18

of stress fall back onto your

36:18

highest level of training, you

36:21

don't rise to a moment, you're

36:21

in fight or flight. You're not

36:25

like, Oh, let me express this

36:25

new skill that I've never

36:27

thought of or used before. No,

36:27

you go, Ah, I don't know how to

36:31

do this. But like, I'll just try

36:31

to make the next right decision.

36:33

And what comes through is that

36:33

understanding of your history

36:37

and everything you've already

36:37

done. So luckily for us, it was

36:41

a lot working it out together.

36:44

Yeah. And just

36:44

one thing to add to that we

36:47

really learned to the game

36:47

because the rally, it's it's not

36:51

something that you can train for

36:51

completely. You can't train that

36:55

on day seven, what do you it's

36:55

going to feel like after not

36:58

getting a good night's sleep and

36:58

being hungry and having to think

37:02

very highly. So so we really

37:02

learned the game and what was

37:06

best for us. I was someone that

37:06

had to eat at 10am Or else I got

37:10

really hangry at noon, and that

37:10

was nothing that I had ever

37:13

experienced in training before.

37:13

So it's it's just stuff like

37:16

that. And yeah, Lily knows

37:16

because she would tell me like

37:20

it's time to eat.

37:23

She's got timer

37:23

set on her watch, Alex, it's

37:25

five till

37:26

Yeah, an alarm.

37:28

Oh, see, she

37:28

says it like it was a nice

37:30

conversation. Sometimes it would

37:30

literally be are you hungry, I

37:35

think you might need to eat, I

37:35

don't know you did the next

37:37

checkpoint, I don't think we're

37:37

gonna make it to the next one.

37:40

I need to eat now.

37:42

Drink some

37:42

water. Your brain is physically

37:45

like shutting down do you have

37:45

to maintain. So that's one of

37:51

the other hardest pieces is you

37:51

have to show up to be the best

37:55

teammate and self manage as much

37:55

as possible, which sounds crazy.

38:00

But just to be able to manage

38:00

your own health, manage your own

38:04

getting your own sleep and

38:04

eating the whole time because

38:06

there's so many other things you

38:06

could prioritize. But the best

38:09

way you can show up for your

38:09

teammate and most of your team

38:12

in the real world is be a

38:12

complete human. When you show

38:15

up. Make sure that you are as

38:15

ready as possible. Because most

38:20

of the time, you'll probably show up and realize that no one else is ready and you're more

38:22

ready than everybody else. But

38:25

it's that self auditing and

38:25

making sure that you can

38:30

continue on as well as possible.

38:33

What to eating and

38:33

sleep look like on the rally.

38:36

Are you given? Does everyone

38:36

like eat the same things or stay

38:40

in the sleeping tents? Tell me

38:40

about that.

38:44

Yeah, I think

38:44

that's the hardest thing on the

38:46

rally is you're eating

38:46

dehydrated, like Mountain House

38:50

meals for eight days straight.

38:50

And last year. It was really

38:55

hard and you have to think and

38:55

you have to execute on top of

38:58

being very low energy and not

38:58

getting all the nutrients you

39:01

need. So during the day, yeah,

39:01

we would we would make our

39:05

Mountain House meals in the

39:05

morning usually with the water

39:07

that's out there for like hot

39:07

tea or making coffee. And then

39:11

those lukewarm meals by mid days

39:11

is what would sustain us. But in

39:16

the evenings there is a float

39:16

full blown setup for the rebel

39:18

rally. There's a like a huge

39:18

tent and a professional chef

39:21

comes in and does cook meals for

39:21

for the competitors. But you are

39:26

sleeping in tents, tents that

39:26

you have to set up. There are

39:30

only one or two showers

39:30

available and 65 teams so that

39:34

means 100 120 competitors that

39:34

are all vying for those two

39:37

showers. So it's you don't get

39:37

all the resources that you do

39:42

when you're staying in home but

39:42

you make do with what you have.

39:46

Imagine a road

39:46

trip from this like the length

39:50

of California. And when you have

39:50

all of these stops that feeling

39:55

of waking up, packing up, then

39:55

go doing whatever activity you

39:59

wanted to Do and then that

39:59

feeling of okay, well, now we

40:01

need to have another camp. And

40:01

then we have to set up

40:04

essentially our whole living

40:04

situation again. And in certain

40:08

base camps, you have more

40:08

infrastructure than others, like

40:11

Alex said the two showers. But

40:11

is it worth it to wait that long

40:17

like, it doesn't make us more

40:17

competitive we have other times,

40:20

so it's genuinely deciding to

40:20

shower or have more time to look

40:23

at our maps. So it's making

40:23

those compromises and decisions

40:28

as a team. But it's a lot, very

40:28

much. So you wake up, you break

40:33

down a full camp, and then by

40:33

5am, you have to go through and

40:36

plot 40 checkpoints, and you're

40:36

essentially just looking at, I

40:39

mean, it goes back to basic math

40:39

on like an X and Y axis. And

40:43

then you're trying to make sure

40:43

that you plot very accurately

40:46

because a point five lead could

40:46

be the width of a football field

40:50

on a map. So accuracy with out

40:50

being able to actually achieve

40:57

it. So you're getting as close

40:57

as possible. But Alex is

41:00

plotting, let's say anywhere

41:00

between 20 to 40 checkpoints.

41:03

And then there's also a drivers

41:03

meeting where they give you all

41:06

the information about course,

41:06

like this section could kill you

41:09

be very, very careful, all of

41:09

the things that you really need

41:11

to know. And then there's also

41:11

something called an duros. And

41:15

this is imagine step by step

41:15

instructions by an artist. So

41:20

like a Mapquest if it was hand

41:20

drawn by your kid. So each time

41:24

is what that person interpreted

41:24

whenever they were at that

41:27

intersection. So it could

41:27

genuinely be just an

41:30

intersection. And there's a big

41:30

boulder picture on your right.

41:33

But you could pass 20 Big

41:33

bowlers before getting to that

41:37

spot. So it's very subjective,

41:37

you go a distance. And in

41:42

theory, if your distance matches

41:42

where they did, you should see

41:46

the same thing. And all of this

41:46

is happening before 7am By the

41:49

way, we ever named at 7am. And

41:49

then you have checkpoints to

41:54

take, like, and you have all the

41:54

competitors doing this and all

42:00

the staff that go out and do

42:00

course, I mean, they have to be

42:03

on course before 7am If we leave

42:03

at that time, all of course has

42:07

to be set up before that time.

42:07

So it takes an immense amount of

42:11

amazing people that don't do it

42:11

because it's a job but because

42:15

they love the support of it and

42:15

what is coming next. And it's

42:21

really cool.

42:22

That sounds

42:22

amazing. I don't think I fully

42:25

appreciated how strenuous the

42:25

rally is for the competitors and

42:30

probably for all the support

42:30

people as well. But those eight

42:33

days it I mean, it sounds

42:33

brutal. After talking with both

42:37

of you. It's not just a fun off

42:37

roading drive. It's it's work.

42:41

It's really hard.

42:41

I think when people look at the

42:45

competition, and I hate to say

42:45

it, but naturally, it's a

42:48

women's competition. A lot of

42:48

people assume it's easy. It's

42:51

it's not, it is the hardest

42:51

thing I've ever done in my life.

42:54

And when we really sit down with

42:54

people, and we explain what

42:57

we've done, they're like me, I

42:57

could not have done that I

43:00

couldn't have showered for three

43:00

days alone, let alone wake up at

43:03

5am and have to plot

43:03

checkpoints. But we really are

43:08

exposed to the elements. We were

43:08

outside plotting checkpoints in

43:12

14 degree weather in Mammoth,

43:12

California, all the way down to

43:16

Glamis, where it was 110

43:16

degrees, and again, we had to

43:19

fully function and perform at a

43:19

very high level. So it's not

43:24

easy by any means.

43:26

Well, outside of

43:26

the rally what I'm curious what

43:29

is your favorite thing about

43:29

rivian vehicles, maybe it's a

43:34

feature, maybe it's some piece

43:34

of behind the scenes engineering

43:38

that no one ever knows about?

43:38

What what's your favorite thing

43:40

about whether it's the r1 T or

43:40

the r1 s the truck or the SUV?

43:46

Oh, man, I'm

43:46

going to have to say, our

43:50

interiors and our suspension

43:50

together. And the reason being

43:55

we did eight days in the car

43:55

this year, we did eight days in

43:58

the car last year, and then all

43:58

the training on top of that we

44:01

were really comfortable when we

44:01

were in the car, our seats are

44:04

extremely comfortable. Our H fac

44:04

AC seats and heated seats. All

44:09

of those little luxuries just

44:09

made the rally that much more

44:13

comfortable when you're in an extremely uncomfortable situation. And then the

44:15

suspension and what different

44:19

trains we had to go over it. It

44:19

just it really focuses on the

44:25

customer, which was us in that

44:25

situation and makes it a very

44:29

bearable situation.

44:30

Great and Lily.

44:32

So I'm a bigger

44:32

fan of the T than the S I think

44:37

that both are phenomenal

44:37

platforms. But since I

44:39

personally own a yellow T, but

44:39

that's, that's where I land. But

44:45

the so I'm gonna give this in

44:45

three parts first, the like,

44:49

hidden I don't know if it's

44:49

quite hidden but essentially we

44:52

take our emblem and then we

44:52

repeat it in different patterns

44:55

everywhere that you would just

44:55

need some kind of crosshatch

44:58

pattern on different surfaces.

44:58

So For example, the senator

45:01

charge pad is actually the

45:01

rivian emblem repeated over and

45:05

over. So it's that attention to

45:05

detail that I think is really

45:09

cool. And for the experience,

45:09

you side of it, it's the same as

45:14

Alex said, in the sense of, we

45:14

have an, we have a hydraulic air

45:18

ride suspension, it right in

45:18

itself is very useful. But it's

45:22

also very stiff and doesn't

45:22

particularly or it doesn't

45:26

transfer weight nearly as well.

45:26

So whenever you add the

45:29

hydraulic system into it, it

45:29

allows for that handling that

45:32

you love. And third, my absolute

45:32

favorite part of it is I started

45:38

in Project CARS. So I would

45:38

normally have some very cheap

45:42

thing that I was trying to make

45:42

fast, which, if it's cheap, it's

45:45

probably if you make it fast,

45:45

it's not reliable. So then I

45:48

would need a daily driver

45:48

vehicle. And then if I wanted to

45:51

Off Road, that also, again, if

45:51

it's cheap, it's pliable. So for

45:56

me, this is the first vehicle

45:56

I've ever owned that could do

45:59

it, and in multiple areas and do

45:59

it well. We didn't we

46:04

benchmarked off of two polar

46:04

opposite vehicles, like you

46:07

would normally try to benchmark

46:07

and say X amount of cupholders

46:10

or it achieves this amount of

46:10

like, torsion or like whatever

46:16

it is, you're only looking for X

46:16

percent better. And we took two

46:19

polar opposite vehicles, one

46:19

that would be an off road expert

46:22

and the other that would perform

46:22

perfect at a track. And then we

46:26

created a vehicle off that, of

46:26

course, that's gonna pull in

46:29

opposite directions, but the

46:29

fact that it does well in all of

46:32

it, not just okay, is my

46:32

favorite part about our vehicle.

46:36

I will second that

46:36

it feels like driving a an off

46:40

road. Sports Car like an off

46:40

road luxury sports car. I love

46:47

the details. Also that you

46:47

mentioned Lilly the attention to

46:50

detail, right? There are these

46:50

little, just these little things

46:53

hidden all over. And then you

46:53

find them and they're like

46:56

Easter eggs are like oh, so

46:56

clever. I love that they they

46:59

put that there it is. It is

46:59

definitely a designed vehicle.

47:04

It's not It's as what's the word

47:04

I'm looking for, I guess it's as

47:09

like aesthetic as it is

47:09

functional. And it does all of

47:14

those things. So so well. I love

47:14

the speed. Personally, we'll

47:19

we'll launch the vehicle with

47:19

the kids in it and they just

47:21

they get such a kick out of it.

47:21

I think I looked up one time

47:25

zero to 60 times for Ferraris,

47:25

and the r1 T was faster than

47:30

about half of them which just

47:30

blew my mind right.

47:33

Half of them while towing a trailer to by the way, like he could be towing a

47:35

trailer and still be dead zeros

47:39

zero to 60.

47:40

That's incredible.

47:40

I mean, this is like a 7000

47:42

pound truck that's faster zero

47:42

to 60 Faster than half the

47:45

Ferraris out there.

47:46

That's nuts.

47:46

Yeah. How do you prepare another

47:49

person that's never been in any

47:49

V, I always I'm like, Hey, we're

47:52

about to take off like a jet.

47:52

Because an airplane you're okay,

47:55

we're gonna take off we're launching into the sky that makes sense to most people. But

47:57

whenever you're looking at, I'm

48:01

gonna take off quick from this

48:01

light, by the way, which is more

48:03

than quick, but and just that

48:03

feeling that your body starts to

48:07

get, we were actually on a drive

48:07

one time. And while I'm on a

48:11

track, the gentleman I was with

48:11

and like we're walking through

48:14

the vehicle, he starts to like,

48:14

Oh, what was that? And I'm

48:17

thinking he's asking me exactly

48:17

how like the suspension hookups,

48:21

and like, what kind of throttle

48:21

positioning and what kind of

48:24

input so my brain instantly

48:24

starts to go into that

48:26

engineering of, well, the

48:26

vehicle is doing this, this and

48:29

this based on this input. And he

48:29

goes no, no, my body. What did I

48:32

just feel? It was in my brain?

48:32

Yeah, I haven't like, Well, I'm

48:38

not.

48:41

It literally

48:41

feels like your chest is like

48:43

collapsing, and like lungs are

48:43

just pressing into the back of

48:46

the seat. It's really, really

48:46

incredible. Yeah,

48:49

I can't do it with

48:49

my wife. She does not like that.

48:52

And I get in trouble. So I have

48:52

when my kids are in the car, we

48:54

have fun but a lot more safe

48:54

when the wife is in the car.

48:59

Alright, one or two more

48:59

questions, and then we'll we'll

49:01

wrap things up here. I'd love to

49:01

hear from each of you about

49:05

specifically within the context

49:05

of your role as an engineer.

49:10

What is one thing that

49:10

frustrates you? And conversely,

49:13

one thing that brings you joy?

49:16

Oh, man, you

49:16

gotta go. Firstly, you won't

49:18

have to think about a doubt. Yeah, that's what that Facebook

49:21

You know each other so well.

49:25

So, what

49:25

frustrates me most is people

49:30

because the math will always

49:30

bath and it will make sense

49:34

there's a right and a wrong

49:34

answer. The part will break or

49:36

it won't. it withstands the

49:36

forces or it doesn't. And that

49:41

part I love it makes complete

49:41

sense to me. There is an answer

49:45

to it and we can solve it. We

49:45

need to maybe get more creative

49:47

but with people. I it just

49:47

doesn't make sense because my

49:51

brain goes into Logic and I had

49:51

to learn that there's typically

49:55

two types of conversation. There's an emotional conversation and a logical one.

49:57

And I'm normally trying to apply

49:59

logic to an emotional

49:59

conversation. And Alex can

50:03

deeply attest.

50:05

I can also relate. Yeah.

50:08

But it's, that's

50:08

the part that frustrates me the

50:10

most. Because again, like we can

50:10

solve any problem, like we're

50:14

sending people into space, like,

50:14

we can figure it out. But the

50:19

people part of it is the hardest

50:19

part. Because even whenever

50:22

you're right, it doesn't matter

50:22

if it didn't land well, or that

50:25

person didn't understand. So you

50:25

can make the coolest car, you

50:29

can design the best parts. But

50:29

if you can't communicate it, and

50:33

advocate for yourself and your

50:33

parts, it doesn't matter. And

50:36

that's the part that frustrates

50:36

me because the communication

50:39

side of it is seemingly the most

50:39

simple, but no one teaches you

50:43

in all their school, they're

50:43

like, here's how you solve these

50:46

crazy equations. And here's how

50:46

you get a job. But they don't

50:49

go, Hey, you have to be nice to

50:49

people. Otherwise, they wont

50:52

like you.

50:54

Absolutely, very

50:54

well said. All

50:56

Right, thought

50:56

about my answer. I, first of

50:59

all, I completely agree with the

50:59

lily. There's definitely right

51:03

brains and left brains in all

51:03

companies. And when we're trying

51:07

to apply logic to things, and

51:07

it's a conversation, that's very

51:10

challenging, but I think the two

51:10

things that frustrate me, and

51:16

simultaneously bring me joy are

51:16

all the limitations that you

51:21

have to fall within when you're

51:21

designing apart. As as any type

51:24

of design engineer, there's,

51:24

there's costs, there's mass.

51:29

Like Lou said earlier, we're

51:29

interfacing with a studio, which

51:32

is a lot of like artistic

51:32

creation when it comes to

51:36

designing vehicle exteriors or

51:36

interiors. And then you also

51:40

have supply chain on top of

51:40

that, to actually be able to

51:42

execute the designs. So all of

51:42

those limitations can be

51:46

extremely frustrating when

51:46

you're just trying to deliver

51:48

the absolute best product you

51:48

can for the customer. Or you're

51:52

just trying to make your ideas

51:52

come become a reality. But at

51:57

the same time, the reason why

51:57

those bring me so much joy is

51:59

those are the reasons that we

51:59

innovate. We innovate using

52:03

different materials, different

52:03

designs, different combining

52:06

different parts, in ways that we

52:06

wouldn't have thought of before.

52:08

Because the very first idea if

52:08

you just run with that might not

52:12

be the best idea. So those those

52:12

definitely both bring me joy and

52:16

frustration every single day

52:16

constantly. But those those

52:20

really are the reasons that that

52:20

we innovate. And I can't, I

52:24

can't speak to any of them. But

52:24

we do have four patents pending

52:28

in my team. Currently, because

52:28

of those exact things. We were

52:30

limited by cost and mass and we

52:30

had to think efficiently and

52:34

redesign things to make it happen.

52:37

I love all those parameters that you're talking about where you have to balance

52:39

one thing against another

52:42

against another as you're

52:42

designing some new part or

52:45

system. And it's like a puzzle,

52:45

right, which I think that's what

52:49

makes engineering so fun is

52:49

because it's not just this one

52:53

thing you have to solve you have

52:53

to consider all these these

52:56

different things and consolidate

52:56

them somehow, in a way that that

53:00

overall works the best

53:00

engineers, we love solving

53:04

problems and and it's just such

53:04

a pleasure to be able to do

53:08

engineering work. Alex Lilly,

53:08

thank you so much for being on

53:12

the show today. What a delight

53:12

it was to speak with both of you

53:16

here about your experience,

53:16

winning the rebel rally this

53:20

year, and a little bit about

53:20

some of the engineering

53:23

engineering behind the the

53:23

rivian. Platform. Before we end,

53:28

is there anything that either

53:28

one of you would like to say

53:31

anything that we should have

53:31

talked about that we haven't?

53:34

I think the only

53:34

thing I would say is thank you

53:36

for sharing our story, thank you

53:36

for seeing the importance of an

53:40

Eevee competing in this

53:40

competition and in doing

53:42

extremely well. And, and you're

53:42

providing a platform to amplify

53:48

women in engineering. So I

53:48

really do appreciate that.

53:52

So one of the

53:52

things that I did miss was the

53:55

what brings me joy. And when it

53:55

was very intentional to join

53:59

Rivia. And for me, it was the

53:59

sense of the thing that I love

54:02

to do with killing the planet.

54:02

Like you can't get around that

54:06

part. And what brings me joy is

54:06

the fact that the innovation

54:10

that Alex was talking about is

54:10

also solving long term

54:13

solutions. Because there is a

54:13

very real fact of what's next,

54:18

what comes next, what is the

54:18

next generation or generations

54:21

after inheriting, and we have to

54:21

be smarter about how we do it.

54:25

Otherwise, it won't exist, or it

54:25

won't be inhabitable at all

54:30

terms there. But what brings me

54:30

joy is the fact that we can

54:33

provide a different future

54:33

because of the way that we solve

54:36

problems. And we have all the

54:36

answers and we can solve it. So

54:41

it's brings confidence knowing

54:41

that through engineering, you

54:45

can look at a problem and go

54:45

hey, this whole city needs a

54:49

solution on a fuel system or a

54:49

fuel cell. Okay. How do we

54:53

create EVs? What does that

54:53

lifecycle that look like now?

54:55

How do we make sure that it

54:55

pushes us into the future and

54:59

our why is that Bigger than just

54:59

our product. And I think that's

55:02

the biggest part that brings me

55:02

joy. So thank you for having us.

55:05

ABS deeply appreciate it.

55:07

Absolutely. Thank

55:07

you both so much for being on.

55:10

How, how can people get a hold

55:10

of you, I'm sure people are

55:13

gonna listen to this and be

55:13

like, I want to hear more about

55:15

the Rebelle Rally and rivian and

55:15

Alex and Lily personally, how

55:19

can people get a hold of you?

55:19

You

55:21

can find me on LinkedIn. My name is Alex Anderson. What I will say is

55:23

since the rally and since being

55:26

on a lot of these public

55:26

speaking events for Rivian, my

55:29

LinkedIn messages are completely

55:29

blown up. So I may or may not

55:32

reply, but feel free to feel

55:32

free to connect me with me. I'm

55:36

a little bit

55:36

more difficult, and most areas

55:38

of life and this one pertains to

55:38

it as well. So the way you can

55:41

get a hold of me is if you go out for an adventure, and we'll probably see you out on the

55:43

trail, because I have very bad

55:45

social media. And even worse it,

55:45

I don't even have a LinkedIn,

55:48

because I want those genuine

55:48

interactions of not that

55:52

LinkedIn is not genuine, but

55:52

it's the go have an adventure,

55:56

or Take someone with you on an

55:56

adventure. Get outside. I loved

56:00

how you said it inspired you to

56:00

want to do more adventures, and

56:03

adventure for everyone is

56:03

different. You are the direct

56:06

reason of why we manufacture the

56:06

way we do and how we make

56:09

decisions the way we do because

56:09

it's in service to getting out

56:13

and having an adventure.

56:16

Thank you so much.

56:16

Well, I am very grateful that

56:20

that ravine exists because it is

56:20

it sounds silly to say like a

56:24

car, but it really has enhanced

56:24

my life in certain ways. And I

56:28

love it. So thank you very much

56:28

for what you've done, and for

56:32

being on the show. It's just

56:32

been a delight to talk with both

56:35

of you. Thank you.

56:37

Thank you.

56:39

I'm Aaron Moncur,

56:39

founder of pipeline design and

56:42

engineering. If you liked what

56:42

you heard today, please share

56:45

the episode. To learn how your

56:45

team can leverage our team's

56:49

expertise developing turnkey

56:49

equipment, custom fixtures and

56:53

automated machines and with

56:53

product design, visit us at Team

56:57

pipeline.us. Thanks for

56:57

listening