0:03

I get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks

0:05

for downloading the Bengals Booth Podcast.

0:08

The we can work it out.

0:10

We can work it out. Addition,

0:14

as the Bengals address two key areas

0:16

of need on Day two of the draft by selecting

0:18

Clemson offensive lineman Jackson Carmen

0:20

in round two and Texas

0:23

edge rusher Joseph Osai in

0:25

round three. Coming up, I'll

0:27

talk to former Bengals offensive line

0:29

coach Paul Alexander, who helped

0:31

Jackson Carmen prepare for the draft and

0:34

told the Bengals that he was worthy of

0:36

being a first round selection. Then

0:39

I'll discuss Friday's picks with my broadcast

0:41

partner Dave Lapham and look at

0:43

some of the players still available, particularly

0:46

in the fourth round where the Bengals

0:48

now have three picks. The

0:50

Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by

0:53

Bud Light. Seltzer refreshed the

0:55

game and here's a quick reminder that you

0:57

can have the latest edition of this podcast

0:59

delivered right to your phone, tablet,

1:01

or computer by subscribing on

1:03

iTunes, Stitcher, google Play, Spotify,

1:06

or pod Bean. It's the greatest

1:08

thing since fan

1:10

interest in the NFL Draft. TV

1:13

coverage of Round one was seen by

1:16

an average audience of twelve

1:18

point six million viewers

1:21

that matched the rating for the most

1:23

watch game of last year's World

1:25

Series. Let's face it,

1:28

it's an NFL world and we're

1:30

just living in it. The Bengals

1:32

began Friday night with a sixth pick

1:34

in round two, but traded it to New

1:36

England, dropping back eight spots

1:39

and picking up two additional fourth round draft

1:41

picks, so instead of picking thirty

1:44

eighth overall, they chose forty sixth,

1:46

and that meant some anxious moments

1:48

for Bengals fans every time an offensive

1:51

lineman was selected. Tevin Jenkins

1:53

went thirty ninth, Leah Eichenberg

1:56

went forty second, and Walker Little

1:58

went forty fifth, one spot

2:00

before Cincinnati picked. Still,

2:03

there were some good options left, like

2:05

Samuel Cosmei, Dylan

2:07

Raidens, and the player that Cincinnati

2:10

ultimately selected, Jackson

2:12

Carmen, the starting left tackle at Clemson

2:14

for the last two years, who happens to

2:16

be from Fairfield High School, where

2:18

he was one of the nation's top recruits. The

2:21

twenty one year old is six four, three

2:23

hundred and seventeen pounds and is

2:25

expected to compete for a starting guard

2:28

spot as a rookie. Former

2:30

Bengals O line coach Paul Alexander

2:32

helped prepare more than twenty offensive

2:34

lineman for this year's draft, including

2:37

Carmen. Oh. How many

2:39

times did you work with Jackson? Carmen?

2:42

Oh? Shoot, we wort together ten

2:44

days, probably starting

2:47

around mid season this year. They had

2:49

a bye week at

2:51

Clemson, and he came home and I

2:54

know that title,

2:56

and the coaches over there at Fairfield

2:59

and so up together, and we

3:01

work kind of a a few things, and then you

3:04

know, and then this whole offseason.

3:07

So I'm

3:09

o him pretty well. He's terrific. What

3:11

are his strengths. He's

3:13

a powerful guy. He can knock guys off

3:16

the ball better than any alignment in this draft.

3:18

In my opinion. He

3:20

can stop the bullrush.

3:23

But he also has terrific balance

3:25

and agility to pass block.

3:29

I saw him as a first round pick. I know that,

3:32

Oh No, Kyper and friends probably hit him

3:35

lower, but I guess too bad. I

3:39

think it was legitimate. I think it's a steel. I don't

3:41

think it's a reach. I put him in the steel

3:43

category. Interesting. We're talking

3:45

to former Bengals online coach Paul Alexander.

3:48

You did a podcast recently with Dave Lapham

3:50

and said that there's not a guy in the

3:53

draft that knows the NFL

3:55

better than Jackson Carmen. How

3:57

did that come out in your conversations with him,

4:00

Well, I've spent a lot of time and we watched

4:02

film, and we study rushers and we

4:04

study you know, blockers, and

4:07

he knows them all. You know, it's

4:09

unbelievable. He knows what you have to do

4:11

to this guy and that guy and the other and so

4:14

he's and that is very important because

4:17

modeling in anything

4:19

that you're successful with. Typically, if

4:21

you model will and that's your goal

4:23

and you know about it a lot, then you aspire

4:26

to be great and more than

4:28

any guy in the draft. Like you said, Dan and I

4:30

said it to lap Up and I'll confirm

4:32

it again, more than any guy in the draft.

4:34

He knows the league in terms of

4:36

playing offensive line right

4:39

now better than anybody. So

4:41

Jonah Williams is the left tackle. They

4:43

signed Riley Reef to play right tackle.

4:46

It sounds like they're going to give Jackson the opportunity

4:48

to compete for a starting spot at guard,

4:51

even though he has not played guard in a game.

4:53

Before. How challenging will that be?

4:56

Oh, they'll pick up on it. He's a natural football

4:58

player. He'll learn it, and

5:01

he has a chance to really be a

5:03

dominant guard. But he

5:06

can certainly play tackle too. It's a

5:08

heck of the thing that when when

5:10

you got a guy sitting on your roster, that if something

5:12

happens to Jonah or Riley,

5:15

that the bowling and go out there and play tackle

5:17

and not skip

5:19

a beat. His tackle to guard

5:22

a relatively easy thing to do.

5:25

It depends on the guy. I think it

5:27

depends on your physical structure. His

5:30

structure is such that he's so powerful

5:32

and has a good center of mass and which

5:35

is good at guard, that

5:37

I think the transition will be seamless.

5:40

He's a smart guy and he

5:42

has all the traits to be able to play boats.

5:44

So some guys can't do it well, it's

5:46

because they're built like tackles. Well,

5:49

this kid's built like a guard, built like

5:51

a tackle, all right. He's kind of

5:54

that guy that's not too high cut or

5:56

not too short. He's kind of like great in the sweet

5:58

spot of which you're looking for in an athlete. He

6:01

does not have particularly long arms.

6:04

I think I saw thirty two and a half inches.

6:06

Does that make guard his most

6:08

likely spot? Or that's

6:10

a wrong measurement, Dad, greg

6:13

you brought that up when he was at Clemson

6:16

for the Clemson workout, they measured him at thirty

6:18

two and a half and I got I almost

6:20

freaked out because I measured him at thirty three

6:23

and a quarter, right, And which

6:25

is you need thirty three for a tackle? Well,

6:27

he had a pro Day on the

6:29

fifteenth of April and they measured

6:31

him and they measured him at thirty three and a quarter,

6:34

So they had thirty two and a half that was floating

6:36

around. Was a wrong measurement and

6:39

I've got, obviously my measurement,

6:41

and then a second measurement to confirm

6:43

the same thing happened with Joe Thomas. If you remember

6:46

Joe Thomas and everyone's like, oh, my guy can't

6:48

play. Taco's arms were too short. You know, they

6:51

measured him his junior year and they mismeasured

6:53

him, and then all of a sudden he went to the combine and they said,

6:55

oh, because arms very long enough, you can play

6:58

tackle. Yeah, no, kid, that's

7:00

really interesting. So in his

7:03

media conference with the Cincinnati Reporters,

7:06

he spoke reverently about

7:08

Willie Anderson. Apparently he and

7:10

Willy have worked together. Will He's give them a lot of

7:12

advice and guidance. And obviously

7:14

you have a very close relationship with Willie Anderson.

7:17

Do you see some connections there? I

7:20

do. The two of them have some

7:23

similar physical traits. You know, they both

7:25

have good, strong lower bodies. You

7:28

know, they are powerful people.

7:31

And then Willie, well, Willie does a lot of work

7:33

with high school kids and college kids.

7:35

And you know, Jackson was

7:38

coming out of high school. He was a

7:40

top recruiting the country as an offensive life.

7:42

He's five star. And you

7:44

know Willie from the different camps and

7:46

so forth and recruiting camps. I

7:49

don't know what they call them now. They used to be under

7:51

our camps, right or nineteen

7:53

they have those who but Willie worked

7:55

those and ness where you got to meet Jackson,

7:57

and over time they've kept their relationship.

8:00

And Uh, it's really

8:03

good because really is able

8:05

to really is great wisdom.

8:07

You know, not only was really a great player, but

8:09

really gets it and

8:11

uh and he's a special, special

8:14

man and that's uh,

8:17

he was able to impart some of that with Jackson.

8:19

And I know really recommended him to the Bengals

8:21

highly, you know, and uh,

8:24

I know he had talked to do Covin

8:26

and gave his recommendation, and uh so

8:29

they're kind of it kind of speaks

8:31

for it. I think I talked to Mike Brown and I

8:33

recommended him. It was when I talked

8:36

to Mike, it was that's the guy he wanted

8:38

to know about practically more

8:40

than anybody. So the Bengals

8:42

fad their eye on him for quite a while, and

8:47

so I was answered, I kind

8:49

of figured they were going to pick him. Interesting,

8:52

So when they traded back from thirty eight

8:54

to forty six, did

8:56

you have it in the back of your head that maybe

8:59

the NFL was and as high on him as

9:01

the Bengals were, and that that was really the

9:03

guy they were targeting. I

9:05

called Jackson and I told him exactly that

9:09

last thing for Paul Alexander. In addition to

9:12

your expertise when it comes to offensive

9:14

line play, you study performers

9:16

in all walks of life and what

9:19

it takes to excel. Does he

9:21

have any traits

9:23

or characteristics that

9:25

you think will allow him to, you

9:27

know, exceed under the white hot spotlight

9:29

of competing in the National Football League. He

9:32

does. You know the thing I mentioned that he

9:34

knows the league? All right, so that's

9:36

great. He's ultra

9:38

competitive, all right. I was

9:41

down. I was down

9:43

working with him and working with a guy who's

9:46

plays an NFL left

9:48

tackle, highly regarded NFL

9:50

left tack where we're doing some work about

9:52

a month ago, and jactually,

9:56

I guess he's trying to make the guy

9:58

look really bad. You know. Really, he's

10:00

ultra competitive. You know, he's

10:03

like, this guy is a good game

10:05

guy, but I'm better than him. So

10:08

he is a very high opinion of

10:10

himself, and not in a naive way,

10:13

in a way that I think will help propel

10:15

him to be great. Paul,

10:18

I always appreciate the opportunity to pick your

10:20

brain. Thanks for the information about Jackson.

10:23

The Bengals Booth podcast is presented

10:25

by Bud Light Seltzer. It's light

10:27

and refreshing with a hint of fruit

10:29

flavor. After going O line in

10:31

round two, the Bengals went D line in round

10:34

three with a selection of edge rusher

10:36

Joseph Osai from Texas. He

10:39

had sixteen tackles for loss,

10:41

five sacks, and forced three fumbles

10:43

in only nine games last season. Now

10:46

time to recap Day two and look

10:49

ahead to Day three with my broadcast

10:51

partner Dave Lapham. I

10:53

had the thirty eighth pick. They elected to make

10:55

a deal with the New England Patriots, dropping

10:58

back to forty six. They

11:00

picked up two fourth round picks

11:03

for trading down. They wind up with

11:05

the seventeenth pick in the fourth round that originally

11:08

belonged to Arizona. They also get the

11:10

thirty fourth pick in the fourth round.

11:12

That's a compensatory pick. If you

11:14

look at the old trade value chart,

11:17

the thirty eighth pick in the draft is worth five

11:19

hundred twenty points. If you

11:21

add up the three picks that the Bengals got an

11:23

exchange, it's five hundred and twenty

11:25

six point five. So it's basically an even

11:27

swap in terms of points. But the Bengals

11:30

wind up with a couple of extra fourth rounders.

11:33

Yeah, and I think when you look at

11:35

it, Dan, that's kind of the

11:37

the sweet spot of the draft.

11:39

You know where people are thinking, particularly

11:42

you know, some offensive lineman. There's

11:44

enough depth there on the offensive line where

11:46

you can do some damage, you know, in the

11:48

in the fourth round, those middle rounds and

11:50

even into the fifth round. You know, people are

11:53

still feeling pretty good about offensive

11:55

lineman and and I think the Bengals

11:57

that it was a good, good decision.

12:00

I think it was a smart move on their part. They

12:03

felt good about who they picked, and

12:05

they got an extra, you know, a couple of fourth round

12:08

picks, and so doing you know, you get one

12:10

hundred and twenty second pick, one hundred and thirty ninth

12:12

pick of the draft. That's pretty strong.

12:14

It's pretty strong. So let's

12:16

go back to the third round or to the second

12:18

round rather and pick number thirty eight. Because

12:21

when we did our podcast after round one,

12:23

we talked about some of the offensive linemen

12:25

that were still available, and the number one guy on the

12:27

list was Tevin Jenkins.

12:29

As it turned out, he was still there

12:32

at number thirty eight. The only offensive

12:34

lineman that could picked before that

12:37

in the second round was Landon Dickerson,

12:39

who went thirty seventh to the Eagles.

12:41

So had the Bengals stayed at thirty

12:44

eight, they could have had Tevin Jenkins,

12:46

they could have had Liam Eichenberg,

12:49

they could have had Walker Little.

12:51

Those guys were taken between thirty

12:54

eight and when they did eventually get

12:56

to pick at number forty six, yeah.

12:58

I think they had had an

13:00

idea that there was going to be a run there of

13:02

those guys and it and it panned out that way.

13:05

But they had their guy identified,

13:08

and of course the great mel Kiper,

13:10

who hasn't played a snap of football, said that, oh,

13:12

that's ridiculous. Jackson

13:14

Carmen, I had, you know, third fourth round,

13:16

uh, you know and the third round, fourth

13:19

round. Um, so whatever,

13:21

I mean, there's gonna All I can say is that

13:24

there are a lot of NFL teams that

13:26

when I was talking to him and I said, what do you guys

13:29

think of Jackson Carmen? Do you think he'll be there at

13:31

thirty eight? I don't know. I

13:33

don't know if he'll be there at thirty eight. He might, you

13:35

can cross your fingers and hope, hope

13:37

and pray. So there's a big disparity

13:39

of you know, where you have guys slotted and evaluated,

13:42

as always, particularly between the

13:44

draft gurus you know, and the coaches

13:47

and the and the scouts and the people

13:50

that you know are actually gonna

13:52

make the pick and then coach the players. So um,

13:55

there's always always some big

13:57

differences in the way people look at players.

13:59

And how about Jackson Carmen, though,

14:01

Dame you talked about coming full circle playing

14:04

up at Fairfield, Ohio five star recruit,

14:07

finalists for the Anthony Munio's Award

14:09

as the best lineman in the area. You

14:12

know, highly acclaimed offensive lineman, basically

14:16

one of the top two recruits in the state

14:18

of Ohio. Basically everybody

14:21

thought he was going to go to Ohio State, and he duped

14:23

everybody and went to went to Clemson. And

14:26

now he's gonna come full circle after

14:28

starting such in

14:31

a spectacular fashion of Fairfield

14:33

and going down to Clemson and proving

14:35

himself worthy at the in

14:37

the offensive line and getting drafted by the hometown

14:40

team and coming back home to play a professional

14:43

career. That's a that's a pretty good story.

14:45

That's a that's something that you

14:49

have to see it to believe it. I guess two

14:51

people that Mike Brown really

14:53

respects when it comes to offensive

14:55

line play sang Jackson

14:58

Carmen's praises, Willie Anderson

15:00

and Paul Alexander, who is a member of the coaching

15:02

staff for a long time. When those

15:05

two guys tell the Bengals that they think

15:07

that Jackson Carmen is going to be an excellent

15:09

NFL offensive lineman. The Bengals

15:11

are listening, There's no doubt about

15:14

it. And uh, you know, I think that they

15:16

both they both understand the

15:19

athleticism that the big guy has.

15:21

I mean, he is light on his feet, he

15:24

can get up on his toes when he needs too, He's got

15:26

tremendous balance, He's

15:28

extremely athletic, and he's

15:30

got he's got a

15:33

tremendous skill set. And both,

15:36

obviously Willie and Paul Alexander

15:38

teach the same sort of techniques and

15:40

they have the same evaluation of them. And

15:43

they were very, very high on him and feel

15:45

like he's going to be able to play well for a

15:47

very long time in the National Football League. Initially

15:51

sounds like he's going to be inside at the guard

15:53

position, but doesn't mean that he

15:55

wouldn't necessarily slide out and see

15:58

how he could play at the tackle. Spody played

16:00

left tackle down there at Clemson and played

16:02

it well. I think that watching

16:06

a little bit of their their tape that was interesting

16:08

though. We had their offensive line pickup stunts

16:10

and tried to man block everything and kind of

16:13

put him behind the eight ball in

16:15

a few type in a few instances

16:18

that it wasn't due to his lack

16:20

of proficiency physically and athletically.

16:23

It was just a, I think, a

16:25

tough thing to try to execute. But I think

16:28

he's he's a really really good football player.

16:30

And two guys that I have a lot of trust

16:33

in their evaluation as well, and

16:36

people that they know around the league and people they

16:38

talked to, the Sims boys filling Chris Simms,

16:41

both had very

16:43

strong opinions that he

16:45

was going to be a high pick, and everybody's

16:48

right. It turned out that he

16:50

was a higher pick than people some people

16:52

may have thought, like mel Kiper. So

16:55

he is expected to compete for a starting

16:57

spot at guard. You asked him

16:59

the question you ever played guard before? He

17:01

said, no, I've practiced it guard,

17:03

I've never played it in a game. You

17:05

can speak to this because you played all five positions

17:08

in a game at the NFL level. How difficult

17:10

is that transition going to be at the

17:13

highest level of football. Yeah,

17:15

it's it's interesting. Um.

17:17

The biggest the biggest difference is

17:19

when you go from the from the outside

17:21

inside, things

17:24

are faster. Things happen in a much

17:26

faster, faster pace. Uh,

17:28

there's there's you have to make quicker

17:30

decisions. Your your brain has to process

17:33

things a little bit quicker. You'll

17:35

have twists inside with linebackers

17:38

and down linemen that you don't necessarily experience

17:40

on the outside when you're past protecting

17:43

against the defense. Ven usually it's

17:45

you got the defensive end. You have the defensive

17:47

end almost every single repetition. So

17:49

it's it's it's a little bit uh, a

17:51

little bit like being on the Autobahn in

17:54

terms of speed on that interior.

17:56

So it's more of a mental adjustment, I think

17:58

than a physical adjustment. I don't think he'll have

18:00

any any real big physical adjustment

18:02

at all. I mean, he's a he's a specimen,

18:06

and he does have great athletic

18:08

ability, but it's just a

18:10

mental part of it. And and I think that's what

18:12

they like too. I like his football acumen. They

18:15

think he's got you know, intelligence overall raw

18:17

intelligence and football intelligence as well. They're

18:20

they're pretty high on him, and um, I

18:22

think he I think he got some pretty good grades

18:24

when the when the Bengals, uh, you know, I evaluated

18:27

that tape that that he

18:29

put put on put

18:32

on celluloid there for everybody to take

18:34

a look at. When he was down there at Clemson, Jackson

18:36

Carman played well surgery

18:38

for a herniated disc in January.

18:41

How big of a red flag is that? Yeah,

18:44

I guess, I guess you were recovered pretty

18:46

darn well pretty quickly. Um,

18:49

there doesn't seem to be any issue with

18:51

it, but you know, obviously

18:53

it's something that you

18:55

know you're gonna have to monitor, and it might have scared

18:58

some people away. It's possible, but

19:00

it doesn't sound like it was a major

19:03

procedure. So I think

19:05

that he passed past

19:07

the physical that the league provided, and

19:09

also my understanding as he passed

19:11

the physical that the Bengals doctors took

19:13

a look at him all right. When we

19:16

looked ahead prior to day two

19:18

of the draft, we said, ideally the Bengals

19:20

would take an offensive lineman in round two

19:22

and a pass rusher an edge rusher

19:24

in round three. That's exactly the way

19:26

it played out. With a fifth

19:28

pick in the third round, number sixty nine overall,

19:31

they selected Joseph Osai of

19:34

Nigerian descent, an edge

19:36

rusher from Texas. An athletic

19:38

freak, he is sixty three, two hundred

19:41

and fifty six pounds, ran a four six two

19:43

forty broad jumped nearly eleven

19:46

feet at two hundred and fifty six

19:48

pounds, known for having a maniacal

19:51

motor, and this is a good

19:53

value pick. He was number forty two on

19:55

the Athletics consensus board. Dane

19:58

Brugler had him at number forty. Even the

20:00

Bengals get him at number sixty nine. Yeah,

20:03

I think they got excellent value there. He's

20:05

explosive, he's got length, he's got

20:07

position versatility. You know, with

20:09

that athleticism, he can drop into space,

20:11

he can do things at the linebacker position.

20:14

But I think what the Bengals want to do is bring

20:17

pressure off that edge. To me, what

20:21

they've lost in Carl Lawson with

20:23

that first step quickness and that explosion

20:26

they got with this guy. I think this

20:28

is a tremendous replacement for Carl Lawson.

20:31

Of what I can gather from

20:33

looking at the numbers, I think he might have had the

20:36

fastest ten yards split of

20:38

any edge rusher. So

20:41

this guy now has an unbelievable first

20:43

step, he has that short space

20:45

quickness. The one thing about him,

20:47

though, is is you know when you when

20:50

I watch him, it's like I think that

20:52

he needs to be coached a little bit on

20:55

his overall pass rush

20:57

game plan. You know, I don't think I

20:59

don't think he's got multiple moves. I

21:02

think he just tries to beat people

21:04

with the with that sheer physical

21:07

you know, ability and talent. And I think

21:09

he's got an upside that once

21:11

he starts to learn some counter moves.

21:13

And you know, as as

21:16

explosive and twitchy as

21:18

he is, his hips look a little stiff,

21:20

you know. And and his ability to redirect

21:23

is uh is not

21:26

you know, like crazy

21:28

crazy, but he's he's a he's

21:30

a heck of a player. And the thing about

21:32

him is, like you talked about, he

21:35

finishes. He finished his plays

21:37

because he's, you know, a high character

21:39

guy with a high motor. And you put those

21:42

two things together, he refuses

21:44

to lose, you know, and and he's gonna

21:46

he jumps off the tape when you watch him. Um,

21:49

and he's he's an effort guy

21:51

in every sense of the word. You know, we

21:53

we uh, we marvel at uh Sam

21:56

Hubbard. You know, he empties

21:58

that effort bucket every single snap. I

22:00

think when you have these two guys on the edge, Osi

22:04

and Hubbard, I mean you're gonna have guys that are

22:06

just getting after coming up the football

22:08

field and getting after people and relentless

22:11

in their effort, doggedly determined to

22:14

finish place. There's no doubt about it. Trey

22:16

Hendrickson known for the same thing. So that

22:18

gives you three defensive ends who

22:20

are known for that type of effort, no

22:23

question about it. And uh, you know

22:25

that's that's a that's a good little trio.

22:28

And you have to figure that the

22:30

three of them, they'll they'll be they'll be spitting

22:32

splitting snaps. You

22:34

know. It's like you have to look at

22:36

uh, look at it. You have

22:38

to have at least three edge guys in the national

22:41

football There's no question about it. So

22:43

this is a welcome edition. So

22:46

Jamar Chase brings

22:48

a lot of swagger, a lot of

22:50

pizzazz, almost

22:53

Chad Johnson with a

22:55

little less look at me, but the

22:57

same confidence level. And now these

22:59

two guys, based on our conversations with

23:01

them after they were selected, are ear

23:04

to ear grin kind of guys just

23:06

you know, thrilled to be selected by Cincinnati,

23:08

can't wait to get to work, just

23:11

oozing with enthusiasm

23:13

and charisma. Those are the kinds of guys you like to

23:15

bring into the building. I agree

23:18

with you, Dan, I think that

23:20

that both of them have a have

23:22

a pleasing swagger. You know. It's

23:24

like I think they're they're they both know they're

23:26

good and and they're

23:28

proud of it. But I don't

23:31

think it's like to me, there's a there's

23:33

a difference between cockiness and confidence,

23:35

you know. And uh, I think they

23:39

I think they realize that

23:41

that they're gifted, and there's no doubt about

23:43

it. But I think they keep it in enough

23:45

perspective. And there's nothing wrong with

23:47

feeling like you can get a job done, and

23:50

you can get job done better than almost anybody.

23:52

There's nothing wrong with that. Um My

23:54

mother used to tell me, you know, you don't don't

23:57

think you can't do anything. You can do

23:59

anything you want to do. You just don't have to tell everybody

24:01

about it all the time. All

24:04

right, Let's look ahead to Day three,

24:06

the third and final day of the draft, and the Bengals

24:09

are going to be busy. They have seven picks

24:11

on Day three, three in the fourth round,

24:13

beginning with a sixth pick, just their

24:15

own pick in the fifth round, number five in that

24:17

round, two picks in the sixth round,

24:19

their own and then the eighteenth pick, and then

24:21

finally the seventh pick in the

24:24

seventh round. With about twenty

24:26

picks to go in the third, I

24:28

had a big list of guys that were still available,

24:30

and I'm thinking to myself, this is unbelievable.

24:33

There's so many great players still on the board.

24:35

And then then the run

24:37

began. So guards

24:39

started going rapidly. Why had Davis,

24:42

Kendrick Greene, Ben Cleveland,

24:45

Robert Hainsey. Then there was a run

24:47

on cornerbacks Elijah Molden, Ifiah

24:50

two, Melon, Fon wu Ambree,

24:52

Thomas, Brandon Stevens.

24:54

So if you were looking for a guard

24:56

or for a cornerback, sure there's

24:58

still plenty left. But some of the guys

25:01

that I really was excited about I

25:03

just got scratched off the list late

25:05

in the third round. Yeah. And during

25:08

the course of that third round, in the late Quinn

25:11

Miners, uh, the kid from Wisconsin,

25:13

Whitewater. I was intrigued by that kid. He went

25:16

very late to buff the Buffalo Bills. No,

25:19

Spencer Brown went to the Buffalo Bills. I

25:21

can't remember who Miners went to, but he

25:23

went to the Broncos. Yeah, the Broncos.

25:25

That's what it was the Spencer Brown went

25:28

to went to Buffalo. Um. Yeah,

25:30

so it was it was unfortunate

25:32

that some of these guys started, uh started

25:35

falling by the wayside. But I still think there's

25:38

to me, there's some intrigue with

25:40

a couple of local guys you're talking about,

25:42

you know, uh, somebody that played at Fairfield

25:45

High School that you that you

25:47

you draft in the second round,

25:49

Jackson Carmen. What would be wrong

25:52

with just going down the road

25:54

to you see and taking a look at James

25:56

Hudson. You know, maybe uh, maybe

25:59

with one of those fourth round picks, or

26:01

you know, go up, go up the road

26:04

a little bit to miamb of Ohio in Oxford

26:06

and Tommy Doyle uh and a

26:09

tackle that uh that that is still

26:11

on the board. Dante Smith

26:13

from East Carolina is uh

26:15

is still out there round

26:18

from Alabama depending on what he

26:20

had in Uh,

26:22

he's probably a little depressed if he if

26:24

he what he ate tonight, he might be three

26:26

hundred and fifty plus pounds tomorrow morning.

26:29

But that's his problem. He's got to control

26:31

that weight. But I wonder, you know, he's

26:33

he's he's on the board that

26:35

his his movements leaves a

26:37

lot to be desired, There's no question about that,

26:40

Dan. But yeah, there are some there's some

26:42

interesting guys. There's a road breader

26:44

from Grambling and this guy's like, you know,

26:46

not fourth round, but he might be

26:48

later if they want to take another

26:51

fly David Moore

26:54

from Grambling. Yeah, and he's less

26:57

than six two, but man, he is

26:59

h he's a you know, and you

27:01

know, on the edge. There's a still a

27:03

couple of options out

27:05

there. Weaver from Pittsburgh still out

27:07

there, Cameron Sample from two Lane's

27:10

still out there. So I think

27:12

that they can still go with

27:15

the best available player

27:17

on their board. But there's still

27:19

pretty good players out there where they

27:21

could still address the position and need you

27:24

know, defensively the defensive

27:26

tackle, defensive end, maybe cornerback,

27:29

you know, offensively, if they could still address the

27:31

offensive line, the interior

27:33

or the offensive line or tackle. If one of these guys,

27:36

you know, makes it, makes it to where they are

27:38

in the fourth round that we talked about, I think

27:40

they still have some options. I mean there's cornerbacks

27:43

out there. Sean Wade's out there from Ohio State,

27:46

Tray Smith is out there, a guard

27:48

from Tennessee, Chris

27:51

Rump outside linebacker from

27:53

Duke. He's got some value where

27:55

we're talking about in the draft. There's there's still

27:57

players out there. Dan. That's why I think it was such

27:59

a good

28:02

Dave and Dixon defensive tack

28:04

from I was a pretty solid player. I

28:07

think picking up these extra picks

28:09

that they got, they're

28:11

gonna be able to, you know, just

28:13

double down on some position groups and

28:17

make the football team better overall. I don't

28:19

see anything wrong with what they did. The

28:22

Brown from Alabama that you mentioned is Deonte

28:24

Brown. He was something like three hundred

28:27

and sixty pounds I think at the Senior Bowl,

28:29

and then he got down to three forty

28:31

four. According to Dane Brugler,

28:33

he was like a second round, third round type

28:35

grade, but again you wonder

28:38

if he'll ever be able to control his weight at

28:40

the NFL level. You mentioned Trey

28:42

Smith, the guard from Tennessee. He's got a third

28:44

round grade on the Dane Brugler

28:46

board, but he's got blood plots in his lungs,

28:49

which is probably a reason why he is

28:51

still available. Stone forsythe

28:54

is still out there, a tackle from Florida.

28:56

He had a third round grade. You

28:58

mentioned James Hutter from you see, third

29:01

round grade according to Dane Brogler. Tommy

29:03

Doyle from Miami, fourth round grade. So that's

29:06

appropriate for where the Bengals. So we'll have their

29:08

three picks in the fourth round. I'll throw a

29:10

couple of other names out there. Tommy Togi,

29:13

big defensive lineman from Ohio State.

29:15

He had a third fourth round type grade

29:18

from Dane Brugler. He's still out there. And

29:21

then a guy that I mentioned several podcasts

29:23

to go running back, Kenneth Gainwell

29:26

from Memphis, still on the board in

29:28

between a second and third round grade from

29:31

Dane Brugler. I saw him a couple

29:33

of years ago. You see, couldn't stop him

29:35

either in the passing game or the running game.

29:37

He opted out last year when he was expected

29:40

to be the preseason offensive player

29:42

of the Year in the conference. So if

29:44

they want to go running back with one of those fourth

29:46

round picks and Kenneth

29:48

Gainwell is still on the board, I think that'd

29:50

be a great selection. Yeah,

29:52

I mean, I think you might be like a four man's

29:55

Travis Etn you know, I mean, it's

29:57

the guy. The guy is the guy who can handle

30:00

things in both phases

30:02

running the football as well as catching the football

30:05

and helping the quarterback. Just a

30:07

note that was interesting.

30:10

Dan, Trevor Lawrence, and Travis

30:12

Etan played obviously

30:14

together at Clemson, and Etan is

30:16

like, he's going to be not just a running

30:18

back. I think they're gonna he's gonna be

30:20

a hybrid type guy. I think he's gonna

30:23

they'll use him as a receiver as much as they

30:25

do a running back. But helped

30:27

the quarterback with a guy that he had established

30:30

chemistry with in his college days.

30:33

Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase. Same

30:35

thing, Ta with Waddle,

30:38

same thing Hurts when he was

30:40

at Alabama with Smith the Heisman Trophy

30:42

winner. Same thing. Four different

30:44

instances of young quarterbacks

30:48

being basically handed

30:51

weapons that they had success with success

30:53

with at the collegiate level to try

30:55

to help give a little jump

30:58

start to their development in the now Football

31:00

League. I thought that was kind of a little interesting

31:03

trend that went on during the course of yesterday's

31:05

action. At the end

31:07

of the draft, the Bengals are always looking for guys

31:10

that could potentially contribute on special

31:12

teams right away. There are two UC Bearcats

31:14

safeties, James Wiggins and Derek Forrest,

31:17

that could be excellent special teams

31:19

players. The Bengals are obviously set at safety,

31:22

but at the bottom of the roster, those guys could

31:24

help in special teams. And then I

31:26

will throw one more name out there as

31:28

a late pick, because the

31:30

Bengals always take at least one Ohio

31:33

State guy, right and if they don't, if

31:35

they don't take Tommy Togi, then

31:38

how about Justin Hilliard, the former

31:40

Saint Xavier High school player captain

31:42

for the Buckeyes linebacker. I could

31:44

see him as a sixth

31:47

or seventh round pick. Yeah,

31:49

that's a there's a good call right there.

31:51

That's nothing wrong with Darren Simmons.

31:54

And I think with all the picks that they've got yes

31:58

coming up tomorrow, he'll have

32:01

a definite say on special

32:04

teams, will have an impact on where they're drafted,

32:06

and if they're drafted by the Cincinnati Bengals,

32:08

particularly down the stretch drive there seven

32:12

seven picks left. That's that's pretty

32:14

interesting. A very busy

32:16

Saturday. It's sure he is, there's no

32:18

doubt about that. I was just looking at

32:21

how offensive line play. You

32:23

know, people are like, oh geez, you got a draft guys

32:25

high. You know you can't pass on

32:27

a guy in the first round. You can't

32:29

pass on this guy. You can't pass on that guy.

32:31

You can't move back and take guys

32:33

in later rounds. Let's let's

32:36

just think about the nineteen eighty

32:38

eight Super Bowl offensive line Anthony

32:40

Winos. Of course, very high draft pick

32:43

warranted Hall of Famer eleven

32:45

consecutive Pro Bowls. But

32:48

other than that hit. The left guard

32:50

Bruce Rhymers, eighth rounder,

32:53

two hundred and fourth pick of the draft, was

32:56

developed by Jim McNally, the legendary

32:58

offensive line coach went on to have a

33:00

ten year career. Center was Bruce

33:02

Kazerski, ninth round, two

33:05

hundred and thirty, first pick of his draft out

33:07

of Holy Cross, went on to enjoy

33:10

a twelve year career. Right Guard

33:12

Max Montoya seventh rounder

33:14

out of UCLA, one hundred and sixty eighth

33:16

pick of the draft, sixteen year

33:18

NFL career. Joe Walter

33:21

seventh round pick out of Texas Tech, one

33:23

hundred and eighty first pick in the draft,

33:26

twelve year NFL career.

33:28

Come on, man, what's wrong with developing,

33:31

you know, drafting a lot of these guys.

33:34

The Rhymers Kazerski would

33:36

not have been drafted. Montoya and

33:38

Joe Walter would have been drafted in the last round

33:40

in the seventh round. Jim

33:43

McNally did a hell of a job of not only

33:45

drafting and targeting, you know, some

33:47

traits, but then developing them so

33:50

you don't have to have first round draft picks

33:52

across the board of your offensive Line's

33:55

just take a look at nineteen eighty eight and reflect

33:57

back on. Got

34:00

some guys and they filled

34:02

some some positions that offensive

34:04

line very very well, to say the

34:07

least. That is some

34:09

good stuff. And I

34:11

think we will end it on that note. I

34:13

will have my celebratory beer as

34:16

I put this together for the second night in a

34:18

row, and you can catch some sleep. I'm

34:22

into that already, Dad. I think I

34:24

think I was half asleep as we did. That

34:27

sounded that way, I truly apologize.

34:30

Sounded great as always. Talk to you tomorrow.

34:32

Thanks, all right, have a great one. Don't

34:35

wrap up the draft with another edition of

34:37

this podcast on Saturday.

34:39

That's going to do it for this episode of the Bengals Booth

34:42

Podcast, brought to you by Bud Light Seltzer.

34:44

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