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i brought this upon myself

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at radio topeka it dot fm or

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wherever you get your podcasts

3:31

i'm doing something a little different for this

3:33

episode i'm running a conversation

3:35

i recently had with one of my favorite

3:38

writers james campbell james

3:41

, the author of talking

3:43

at the gates one of the first and the

3:45

best biographies of james baldwin

3:47

he's also the author of paris

3:50

enters owns a book about a moment

3:52

when spies and riders spies pornographers

3:55

all converge in literary

3:57

paris in the nineteen sixties

3:59

for many years james campbell

4:02

was also an editor and columnist

4:04

at the times literary supplement and

4:06

a journalist for the guardian he's

4:09

just a terrific writer who i can't

4:11

get enough and so last

4:13

spring when i saw he had a new book out

4:16

i couldn't help pick it up just

4:19

go down to the road is billed as a memoir

4:21

about trouble and travel but

4:23

it's really much more is the

4:25

story of a young person growing

4:27

up in scotland in the late sixties

4:30

a boy who sales out of school

4:32

at the age of fifteen but still makes

4:34

his own way eventually the

4:37

world of ideas and literary success

4:41

i met up with jim this summer and

4:43

his flat in london we spoke in

4:45

his living room for a few hours the

4:47

following is a condensed version

4:49

of our conversation this

4:52

phrase just go down to the road

4:54

pops up a number of times in the book

4:56

it's almost like a magic mantra

4:59

the first time young gym campbell

5:01

hears it is from a potential

5:04

muggings victim

5:06

it first occurs in the work

5:08

when rather delinquent

5:10

school by friend of mine suggested

5:12

that we carry out a mugging we

5:16

we went ahead and kind

5:18

, plan this and i'm i'm

5:21

stupid really there was a woman

5:23

approached second picture her now and

5:28

quiet respectable back streets

5:30

of glasgow

5:31

and a we've approached

5:34

her and simply asked for

5:37

directions to the bus stop

5:39

or something and from that moment

5:41

the idea of any crime

5:44

was also

5:45

we we chickened out

5:46

thank god we would almost

5:48

certainly have been caught but

5:51

she was extremely

5:53

friendly and she thought she was speaking

5:55

to speaking to logical schoolboys

5:58

and she said of course bus stops

5:59

don't just go down to the road and

6:02

you'll see the bus stop right there

6:06

now young jim was never a violent

6:09

hoodlum he reminds me more of

6:11

the angry young men we meet in books like

6:13

the loneliness as a long distance runner

6:16

as boredom limited options

6:19

petty crime but

6:21

after young gym gets busted for

6:23

playing hooky and forging his grades he

6:26

, to leave school and he starts

6:28

an apprenticeship at a factory and

6:31

this leads us to the main question main

6:33

had for james campbell you see

6:35

while young gym hated school he

6:38

loved books and ideas and

6:40

intellectual conversations and yet

6:42

remarkably walking into this factory

6:45

he didn't seem to think he was

6:47

cut off from all that or afraid

6:50

that the path he was an led

6:52

away from that world

6:56

when i did leave school at age of fifteen and

6:58

and just turned fifty inches

7:01

i went to work and own nineteenth

7:03

century printing factory in

7:06

glasgow

7:07

under conditions that wouldn't be allowed

7:10

i moved into a bedsit just

7:13

were i was lucky i was in the university area

7:16

then i moved into this house with several

7:18

of those rooms

7:20

the lot of the human characters

7:23

very interesting people they nice to me

7:26

so it didn't i didn't feel of is

7:28

blocking me off because all this other

7:30

world was there around me and in fact

7:32

now i could make more of it because

7:34

i didn't have put up with blooming school yeah

7:37

, i think around the time in the book where you

7:40

talk about this thing that you found the room

7:42

this place where you and your sisters near friends

7:45

come together in a talk about books

7:47

and ideas and it's and satire satire

7:50

, a visualization

7:52

and in a hearing you talk about the

7:54

room's next to your bed said i'm

7:57

ah when you think about this place now or

7:59

what's the first one you visualize

8:01

is there a particular room that comes

8:03

to mind them he just talked about a seer their

8:06

the one that i do

8:08

call the room with a capital are

8:11

in the book was one

8:13

of that i was a little tiny bit

8:15

older and by that time i have fallen

8:18

in was a lot of university students

8:20

from glasgow i know two

8:22

girls it wasn't in fact my sister o

8:24

two girls lorraine and

8:27

kate the reader neither

8:29

of them was my girlfriend in the ordinary

8:32

sense but we were close friends

8:34

as was there was substitute twin sisters

8:37

had , up with twin sisters and

8:39

then i left home oh i had to find another

8:41

pair a twin sister has otherwise i really

8:43

would be lost lost caden lorraine

8:46

they were terrific

8:49

people on again that

8:51

was there had there had intellectual

8:54

influence on me kate for example who

8:56

was the daughter of a postman she

8:59

i collected photographs or ts eliot

9:02

the

9:04

the seemed to me

9:05

the unusual hobby but quite a nice one

9:08

and lorraine lorraine

9:11

reading albert come in

9:14

french and jean cocteau the

9:16

own cocteau wrote a novel

9:18

code less own home teddy blood

9:21

in which keeps the same foods

9:23

the title in english and

9:26

in it in that novel

9:29

there is the room where they are locked

9:31

into this room and and

9:34

they just live there and they go

9:36

to bed

9:37

seven in the morning and get

9:39

off at five in the afternoon and

9:41

lived through the night and we did that kind of thing

9:44

and , some drugs i wasn't a great

9:46

drug safer for there were drugs around

9:48

but damn who it was never my scene but

9:51

there was those there was the atmosphere of the room

9:53

you could go to the part was rude take

9:56

some lsd and go to the park and

9:58

stay there all night

9:59

think of that one that's that's the

10:02

room was kitten there in the the

10:04

substitute twin sisters see

10:07

, drugs and that is one aspect

10:09

of trouble that i would say

10:12

missing from this book and i i found myself thinking

10:14

a lot about this because

10:16

you have friends who are doing drugs you know musicians

10:18

and writers who are doing are lot of drugs and

10:21

you don't then

10:23

i'm wondering what you make of that now looking

10:25

back because to be blunt i feel

10:27

like you avoided some

10:29

the kind of trouble they don't get to write about decades

10:33

later

10:34

yes

10:37

first of all i never got high

10:39

in the way the other people did and

10:42

also i suppose i i

10:44

i suppose at the time soon enough

10:47

the man i didn't really like the effect

10:50

was having on people i saw people

10:53

kind of going down even

10:55

you people who were just sticking to dope

10:57

than i was smoking marijuana

11:00

more or less morning till night every

11:02

weekend and so and i

11:05

saw it even then and i didn't like it uncertainly

11:07

lsd people would

11:10

the one wasn't not much narcotics in

11:12

glasgow in those days

11:13

but you had his literary idols who

11:15

were destroyed yes i did i

11:17

did i was very attracted

11:20

to one particular drug addict writer

11:22

to invite william burroughs but

11:24

also scottish also drug addict

11:27

alexander cookie

11:28

who was from glasgow from the same streets and

11:30

which i was now moving around

11:33

and i was very attracted to him and

11:35

his novel keynes book which seemed

11:37

to me a completely different type of

11:40

novel i , to know him and

11:43

he confessed that he had he had

11:45

been he was a world champion drug

11:47

addict addict and he

11:49

confessed that it had been destructive

11:52

but somehow or other i didn't

11:56

am i had my head screwed on too tight

11:58

you know i was

11:59

i was out for adventure

12:02

all time

12:03

it

12:04

i was still a sensible kid

12:07

you know i'm

12:09

, i come back to one last thing in the factory

12:11

because he now you seem

12:14

you know said a few minutes ago com

12:17

okay with the factory as a as a path

12:19

in your three years in to a six

12:21

year apprenticeship and

12:24

you're still discovering books and music

12:26

you've got a great pub you've got access

12:28

to culture and ideas arm

12:31

, i caught another reference to something down

12:33

the road the sterling library which

12:35

seems very very important here

12:38

so right so like you you've got

12:40

a , that you can can see that

12:44

that i think for a lot of people to they would

12:46

just not make that would

12:48

not see something like those two things is compatible

12:51

i think one thing to say

12:53

is that

12:54

i wasn't the only one there

12:56

were quite lot of young people around

13:00

me

13:02

in glasgow at that time

13:04

no no we're going to late

13:06

sixties maybe even nicer

13:08

seventy seventy one

13:11

people came from working class backgrounds

13:15

in most cases more working

13:17

class than mine are ,

13:19

who have but will also interested

13:21

in this sort of intellectual music

13:23

that i mentioned i'm

13:26

who are interested who

13:28

hermann hesse

13:30

and other

13:33

writers you know strangely enough

13:35

not so much jack kerouac and all that

13:37

although there were people who like them but they won

13:40

our i was we were a little bit more switched

13:43

on than that the

13:46

black mountain poets robert freely robert

13:48

duncan and gary snyder

13:51

those were kind of the

13:54

heroes and and these writers they

13:56

brought a whole mythology with them you

13:58

know if you read gary

13:59

into

14:01

you read about merely kind of wondering and

14:03

the outback and meditating for

14:05

a whole day and ,

14:07

to japan studies women's it was

14:09

all amazing stuff going on it

14:12

wasn't just sitting there writing books as

14:14

it is they brought this them mythology

14:16

with some ah and i probably

14:20

didn't think about the future all that much

14:23

a if there's one mother

14:26

, deficiencies and my makeup

14:29

but i think that's been one of them is that

14:31

i've never really thought about the future all that much

14:34

much that that can i am brings

14:36

me to the turning points

14:40

which is fascinating you describe it

14:42

as like this comment or look you get

14:44

from a fellow coworker has

14:46

something that makes you realize that oh

14:48

maybe you don't belong and the factory

14:51

and since a lot of what could have ends in this

14:53

book as i think it's fair

14:55

me to ask when it was you had worked

14:58

a difference if you

15:00

, a real where it's jeanette you're referring

15:02

to jeanette out don't try and get away with anything

15:05

with jeanette because you want but

15:07

one day we were at the machine when

15:10

these printing machines i described them

15:12

in the book that we

15:14

worked on they were made of wood

15:18

wouldn't , machines are

15:21

and i operate and this machine and

15:24

but you needed them

15:26

the girl we always said a girl

15:28

a girl cedar to see the

15:30

paper into the machine

15:32

and cnn and many functions in the

15:34

factory but so that was one of to feed

15:38

the paper into the machine

15:40

she's revealed to me

15:42

one day that she had said to the boss

15:45

that i'm not going to

15:46

complete my apprenticeship

15:49

then i said

15:51

why not

15:53

sit

15:54

i just told him i said he's too

15:56

clever for it that

15:59

was

15:59

winter great revelations

16:03

it happened i did get a

16:05

kind of chest ailment which

16:07

meant a ,

16:09

absence from the from

16:11

the factory i'm i had to reclaim

16:14

it out from the welfare

16:16

but

16:18

then i was able to do my own thing

16:20

and that was what i have and then i realize this is

16:22

the life for me

16:24

no absolutely not man brings us to

16:26

travel i'm in of a second

16:28

ah main theme and this

16:30

memoir of yours i'm the

16:33

alert us being one

16:35

of the ones the ones one of the chosen

16:37

who gets to go away assets

16:39

and this lack of specific destination

16:42

ah my mean yes you wanna go to morocco

16:44

bomb but you go to allow other places

16:48

following more of a logic of just going

16:50

down the road it seems the beginning

16:54

yes i think

16:55

it did i think i placed my trust

16:57

in the road i slept

16:59

outside by the side of the road i

17:03

when i set out for india i

17:06

didn't even take a rucksack i

17:09

took his shoulder bag the

17:11

sleeping bag and i

17:13

had on my feet a pair of sandals

17:18

i don't remember that i took so bad

17:23

, i did and i had have

17:25

any money but i hadn't what i thought was enough

17:28

to get me to india

17:30

and i took advice from what i

17:32

called the hippie elders who

17:35

would say oh in hitchhiked

17:38

istanbul since

17:41

i'm i'm fit into fit into

17:43

istanbul get istanbul busted tehran

17:46

very cheap people over said

17:48

they were very to the always hundred to be much more

17:50

expensive once

17:53

you're in tehran you

17:55

, figure out how to get kabul

17:58

and them and when they were talking about if

18:00

you are going through the different boroughs of new york

18:02

or something in a lunch or in the bronx

18:04

asked somebody how to get to manhattan ah

18:07

it was of it was really was bit like that no one i

18:10

knew ever consulted of a guidebook

18:12

for a map for anything on know and i

18:14

knew ever him walking boots

18:16

you make it it has been well but then

18:19

something happens i hit high to istanbul

18:22

one day i was in the street and i'm

18:25

i was approached man

18:28

who was german who

18:31

said to me that

18:34

he knew i wanted to go to tehran are

18:38

nice and oh i did you know that

18:40

and he said that he heard me talking to friends

18:43

the night before and a cafe or something

18:45

and he recognized my hair which

18:47

for a long and may blown and

18:51

he said he was a lorry driver and

18:53

he was going to tear on the next morning i

18:57

should all terrific the result you

18:59

can come with me damn

19:02

he mentioned this certain amount of money

19:04

that he would like to have

19:07

and then and this was the really

19:09

naive but he said that he could make

19:12

an exchange for me

19:13

i would need money when i got to tehran

19:16

whatever the currency was there forgotten

19:19

but i would need that and he can do the

19:21

exchange for our need to give him the money now

19:24

so i handed over to know all that much money

19:26

but i handed over the substantial

19:29

sum he took me

19:31

to rendezvous point for the next

19:33

morning at nine o'clock

19:36

and when i turned up he wasn't there

19:38

before leaving glasgow

19:41

i heard

19:43

the vision of myself as one

19:45

of those who was going to india

19:48

i was going to away gym

19:50

where's gym oh he's he's away

19:53

this is the word everybody years no

19:56

i belonged to

19:58

another elite

19:59

the

19:59

who had been ripped off

20:01

did you hear by jim

20:04

he was ripped off

20:05

but deep down

20:08

i was relieved

20:10

because

20:11

i probably wouldn't have a got anywhere near

20:13

in this for don't i probably would have

20:16

disappeared so that

20:18

lorry driver

20:20

he did me a favor he was

20:23

one of my friends of the road so what

20:25

happened was that i

20:29

took a bus

20:30

scroll to the greek and

20:32

turkish border turkish greek border crossing

20:34

over into greece the

20:37

hittite from their down to athens was

20:39

so americans and a vw bus

20:43

one day i was walking along

20:45

walking around some sagna square and was

20:47

your fellow at a cafe

20:49

her picture no big

20:51

bushy beard

20:52

obviously american and

20:55

he summoned me over to

20:57

his table

20:59

and he's in this is how the conversation

21:01

went

21:02

these are the you from scotland

21:06

i said yeah

21:08

i you said your name is jim campbell

21:10

right

21:12

the

21:13

the son of a million sunlight the lorry

21:15

drivers see me in the cafe the night before

21:17

i thought how did you know that well

21:20

it turns out the one year before

21:22

i think we work to doubt that was exactly

21:24

to the day i

21:26

had met him under friend

21:28

and american friend of his in the park

21:30

in glasgow and i have put them up

21:32

on the floor my bedsit this

21:35

led on the floor the europe the next

21:37

morning if we went up

21:39

to the highlands of scotland and

21:43

his name is jerry robach then

21:46

he was sitting there at this table

21:48

and he had a job on

21:50

the island of spitzer looking

21:52

after five horses his

21:56

job was going to be and started

21:58

yet was bostock take the

22:00

people around the island on tours

22:02

of the other on horseback that

22:06

he was on his own at the time and he had a sign

22:08

in front of them it said girl

22:10

wanted to work on

22:13

ireland was horses uganda

22:15

thing did in those days

22:17

and people responded to

22:19

the jury i don't juri my as sorry story

22:22

about the lorry driver if he ever

22:24

drawn a line from

22:26

he looked at me he

22:28

just looked nice the wonders job i

22:32

said bet says girl wanted

22:35

yeah he said

22:36

get a girl

22:38

bob never been on a horse

22:41

that will teach you consistently

22:44

i had a job

22:45

i we went to the ilo specs

22:47

and stayed there for two and a half months we

22:50

did get a girl that afternoon and

22:53

i she was very nice and she was a good writer

22:56

then she taught me how to ride a horse

22:58

in about three days i'm

23:00

, i spent the whole summer were

23:02

never wore anything like a writing cat

23:04

bar knee pads pads

23:07

anything like that when all summer trotting

23:10

galloping and i never fell off know

23:13

, an incredible a

23:15

journey to go from feeling ripped

23:17

off to taking

23:19

tourists around on horses and supporting

23:22

yourself for summer but you

23:24

know hurting yourself

23:26

to the road is kind of one of the themes

23:28

of that that travel parts of

23:30

of this book and it's just seen

23:32

as thrilling tend to follow along

23:35

i at cana makes no

23:37

sense you know from my point of view like how

23:39

you end up in israel at israel kibbutz

23:42

that you know for you as a writer for you

23:44

as for it's your story connecting the dots

23:46

of iran sorry

23:48

there is a lot actual i guess but yeah

23:51

israel it wasn't even on your original

23:53

a whaler no , mile

23:55

away list i never thought about

23:57

going to occur boots it was jerry the

23:59

come from the caboose kibbutz miss merit

24:02

so caboose between tell of even hyper

24:05

and everybody was going home it's you remember i

24:07

wasn't a student

24:09

everybody else was a student really so

24:12

, it came to the autumn they would all go

24:14

back to their their

24:16

lives but i didn't really have an ordinary

24:18

life ah on my

24:20

life was away my life was the road

24:23

so i didn't road so to do next and

24:25

i'm just wanna go to israel

24:29

you can go to the caboose who

24:31

work there the new people to taken the avocado

24:33

is quite soon he has been on this commit

24:36

so , gave me directions and

24:39

we got together enough money

24:42

for an air ticket

24:44

there's my first time in the air ah

24:47

juri got the tickets for me and

24:49

i got on the plane

24:51

then i enjoy

24:54

this when down to the road

24:55

it he explained to

24:58

me how to go to the caboose which

25:00

i did

25:01

you should ask for a woman called tips

25:04

the mention my name

25:08

life was simple in those days so i

25:10

have went to the i phone my way

25:13

to the caboose i

25:15

could find my way anyone that also surprises

25:17

me i never looked at a map don't

25:20

ask me how

25:22

but i've got to the caboose and

25:25

entered the caboose of a know god

25:28

, i suppose there are now now

25:30

to say but i just wandered

25:33

onto the boots and onto the saw

25:35

me the noted on

25:37

who protects her she said i am theresa

25:40

i said oh gary robot

25:42

sent mists my name's jim

25:45

i'm an i'm i want to

25:47

join little boots and she looked really

25:49

honestly she looked at me with at incredulity

25:53

i said you can't just come down

25:55

here and say you

25:57

want to go on the boats as

26:00

i am send book of a flesh and

26:02

blood refutation of that statement

26:05

stood before her

26:07

she's of oh no you hear you may

26:09

as well get a job and

26:12

, introduced me to chop and

26:14

he took me in hand me in gave me a punk

26:22

jim's life on the kibbutz is pretty

26:24

monotonous mostly it's work

26:27

or volunteering but

26:29

still young gym find time for

26:31

literature music and

26:33

adventure he discovers

26:35

that that peter who sleeps in the hot next

26:38

to him is peter green

26:40

the mysterious missing sounder of

26:42

fleetwood mac the guitars to

26:44

seamlessly walked away from

26:46

money and fame eventually

26:49

though gym discovers that

26:51

he wants to live closer to

26:54

that world of books and intellectual

26:56

ideas he decides to

26:58

go to university

27:01

that first

27:02

they have to get home and getting

27:04

off the kibbutz turns out to be more

27:07

of a challenge once

27:09

again he finds himself flirting

27:12

with trouble

27:15

on the caboose i really was stuck

27:19

and

27:21

it's an amazing fact that i

27:23

wrote to my father then

27:26

toes and my situation

27:30

and as if he could follow

27:33

me the money from form

27:37

sister boat trip from haifa

27:40

who at paris in athens

27:44

from there i could hitch hike up to glasgow

27:46

five nights sleep and by the side of the road

27:48

no problem all

27:50

i needed was boat trip then he

27:52

wrote back and this

27:55

letter which i received one morning

27:58

it said roman by the family motto

28:02

no reward without effort

28:06

now , didn't know there was a family motto motto

28:09

year now because he didn't send

28:11

me any money unless it's absolutely incredible

28:13

i tell the story to story you

28:15

know who got children her in thailand some

28:18

in the emailing them every day and

28:20

much fans didn't even know where i was on

28:24

that was a little bit of pay back

28:27

i suppose he , saw it

28:29

this kid has given me so

28:31

many headaches he can deal with his

28:33

own headache headache

28:36

i'm really stuck under someone

28:38

gave someone the a newspaper local the

28:41

and i saw american pizzeria

28:44

in decent off

28:46

he main street in tel aviv and

28:49

they needed if as

28:54

the i phoned up from the caboose and

28:57

the guy said can you be here tomorrow morning at ten

29:00

just like that i had a job

29:02

then i was shows promoted

29:05

very quickly

29:06

to become your pizza maker and

29:08

i got on very well with a guy who ran

29:11

it was coach jim like me the

29:13

only problem was that the

29:16

money they were paying me with barely

29:18

enough to get from tell a be back to the caboose

29:20

never mind to get from back

29:22

, europe it really was was

29:25

low and i was working maybe

29:27

ten hours a day some

29:29

then i had to also have a place to live

29:32

the one evening i met her and english

29:35

intellectual and in a country

29:38

and we started talking intellectual

29:40

as was always my downfall

29:42

i'm

29:44

recently to thing and we came up with a scheme

29:47

whereby i could get from money two

29:51

get me back get me across the mediterranean

29:54

to europe oh it

29:56

went like this

29:57

i went up to gym the double

29:59

and i told him that i was sleeping

30:02

in a dorm was ten twelve fever

30:04

which is true

30:06

i wasn't getting good sleep because people are coming

30:08

in at all hours

30:10

but i had the chance of a room of

30:12

my own

30:15

and i said i needed a bit of space

30:17

or writing a novel he was interested

30:19

in that and

30:22

i said there's landlady but the only problem

30:24

is she wants a deposit for the room and

30:27

he looked quite serious and he

30:30

said how much and i told and

30:33

let's say it was the equivalent of

30:36

at the time fifty

30:38

dollars something in

30:40

that region not a huge for him been

30:42

over and substantial sum of money on

30:47

he is and we really like you always

30:51

, you'll stick around because

30:53

we get people who work and then they go home they go

30:55

to college i am you're

30:57

not am college maybe

30:59

he'll stick around so

31:01

next morning he gave me the money i went

31:03

back checked out of my rooming

31:06

hostile that

31:09

all of us just went down to the road

31:11

going on a bus

31:12

the boots me smart

31:16

and the

31:18

tremendous boom descended on

31:20

me on the bus the

31:24

but i had the money much profit and

31:28

i got to the

31:31

stop for caboose mission rot and i described

31:33

this in the book and is rather important as

31:36

i got off the bus

31:38

the to walk down the road half a mile

31:41

mile the most

31:44

the only way down to the caboose the

31:46

dog a little stray menus

31:49

a dog came behind

31:51

me a started barking at me is

31:53

fucking homeless to

31:55

the it is it's too kind of fictional

31:58

it is like from a movie or something

31:59

that it is true i remember that does

32:02

he barked all the way down

32:06

and

32:09

i'm not was fifty

32:11

, ago i remember that down

32:14

down this very day i go

32:16

to the caboose and i told peter green

32:19

the he's sort of looked

32:21

a bit dubious then

32:23

i told this other friend of mine dinosaurs a new

32:25

york taxi driver great man i'm

32:29

he was lively fellow brixham

32:31

and i had expected him to kind

32:33

of slap me on the back or something and say well

32:35

you didn't jimmy know you'll get off

32:39

but he didn't he looked

32:41

at me with her

32:45

something between concern

32:47

and city can

32:49

we really liked each other we will use

32:51

my closest friend

32:54

i remember when he said

32:55

he said jimmy

32:58

you can go around a while ripping

33:00

people off

33:03

in of in prison

33:07

in that it went deep

33:09

you know because i was actually ready for

33:12

that kind of don't i didn't like when i'm

33:14

done so

33:17

the next day i put the money and and in love and

33:19

i posted it back to american pizzeria

33:22

and i made up some cock

33:24

and bull story about why i had to make

33:26

a quick departure and hope that hadn't been

33:28

too much of an inconvenience i hope the money got

33:30

their i'm probably

33:33

did

33:33

and so that was it and

33:36

then in the and it was dennis who game in the money

33:38

to get off the could boots and we were

33:40

in the avocado fields monday and he sets

33:42

out gabrielle on money jimmy and

33:45

, i'll get some level piece that

33:47

way way

33:49

was dog and about all the time them

33:52

so sure enough

34:02

there's a lot more trouble

34:04

and travel in just go down

34:06

to the road young gym even

34:08

makes it to morocco but the main

34:11

journey that james campbell takes in

34:13

this memoirs this the one that he takes

34:15

to the world of books and intellectual

34:17

idea and in

34:20

lieu of an ending he gives us to

34:22

photos and the first james

34:25

tells a story about how he wrote

34:27

kate seaver one of his early books

34:29

in which he takes up residence in

34:31

a prison to document what

34:34

life is light on the inside

34:36

it's a glimpse into a world filled with

34:38

men unable to travel

34:40

and unlucky at trouble at

34:43

world that very well

34:45

could have been for james campbell

34:49

the other cota

34:51

there's also personal it's the story

34:53

of when james was able to show his father

34:56

that he in fact did understand

34:59

the family motto it's a

35:01

wonderful story about the time

35:03

he first introduced his father to his

35:05

friend james baldwin

35:09

they had already known james

35:11

baldwin i invited

35:13

, baldwin comes to the university

35:15

of edinburgh to speak to the students are while

35:18

i was to the student myself again tremendous

35:20

naive it and i'm

35:23

the great reader of baldwin

35:26

i need to my ahora he accepted

35:29

the said he would like become an iphone but it was

35:32

we had absolutely no money for anything

35:35

i haven't even mentioned as to anyone to anyone university

35:37

staff

35:38

fortunately to cut a long story

35:40

short at he cancelled more

35:43

or less of the last minute

35:44

and as me to telephone

35:46

him

35:47

which i did from us public call

35:50

box in edinburgh

35:52

and is i like to say

35:54

i went into the phone box and i got

35:56

the number and i got bolder and on the other

35:58

is a valley and

36:01

i we had long conversation and i

36:04

like to say i went into that soon box

36:06

as clark kent and i came out

36:08

of superman wasn't , such

36:10

friendship with james baldwin has

36:13

begun he

36:15

wrote for my magazine than admire

36:18

and , went to south of france france

36:20

visit him on more than one occasion we

36:23

got on very well i'm

36:26

and then and nineteen eighty five

36:29

i , him invited to zoo

36:31

edinburgh the boom

36:35

the river

36:37

and i interviewed him on stage

36:40

it was handed lock in the morning or something

36:43

he , terrific it was magnetic as

36:45

always on on

36:47

audience was swept

36:50

off their feet and then my

36:52

mother and father had come through their

36:55

by now they moved back to scotland from

36:57

england to

36:59

my dad approached

37:03

there's a copy of the fire next time

37:07

and bowling the same this

37:09

scribbling away and you know asking

37:11

if people and i'm he had times where everyone

37:13

he was remarkably gracious

37:16

man

37:19

he would look out and was a great

37:23

wonderful healing smile and

37:27

then man front of a mum was my dad and

37:29

it was and defining son is a diet mister

37:31

baldwin mister enjoyed your talk very much

37:34

the jimmy looked again

37:39

then my dad who looked

37:41

at the other person behind isn't there's no sin

37:46

jimmy later m looked ,

37:48

me me back and ask

37:50

for my dad's name and he wrote

37:53

for harry campbell

38:04

james campbell's new memoir is

38:06

called just go down to the road and

38:08

it's published by paul dry books

38:11

order a copy from your favorite

38:13

independent bookshop you

38:17

can find a link and the list of some

38:19

of my other favorite books by james campbell

38:21

on the show page at theory of everything

38:23

podcast dot com the

38:26

theory of everything is a proud

38:28

of founding member of radio tokyo

38:31

home to some of the world's best podcasts

38:33

find them all at radio tokyo

38:36

dot fm