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Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts.

0:49

Wanted. A new leader for Scotland, the third

0:51

in three years. This is

0:53

Nick Robinson on the Today programme.

0:55

And being at Holly read the

0:57

Scottish Parliament, reflecting on the fallout

1:00

of another emotional resignation by

1:03

another Scottish First Minister. I'm

1:07

so blessed for having

1:09

the opportunity afforded to

1:11

so few to lead

1:13

my country and who could

1:15

ask for a better country. It

1:17

all ended in tears for whom to use

1:20

if whoever succeeds him will

1:23

lead a minority government and

1:25

will need to be someone who can

1:27

make political alliances rather than

1:29

break them. I've

1:31

concluded that repairing our relationship

1:33

across the political divide can

1:36

only be done with someone else at the

1:38

helm. When the Scottish

1:40

Parliament was built, there was much talk that

1:43

the design of this building, modern lights,

1:46

open oak beams, steel,

1:49

big windows, was

1:51

meant to be a contrast with the

1:53

dark winding corridors of the Palace of

1:55

Westminster. The debating chamber

1:57

itself shaped like a horse.

2:00

to embody cooperative

2:03

European style politics rather

2:06

than confrontation. So

2:08

what you might wonder has gone wrong. Part

2:11

of the answer is that the divisive tribal

2:14

politics of the independence

2:16

referendum has trumped many

2:18

of those good intentions. So

2:21

here with all the cameras outside

2:23

Holyrood is the Deputy First Minister,

2:26

Finance Secretary Shona Roods. Is

2:28

what's happened a reminder that this

2:31

place, Holyrood, was set

2:33

up to encourage cooperative politics? Is that

2:35

the lesson you've had to learn? Well

2:37

look, our time in government has been spent

2:39

more in minority government than anything else and

2:42

we've had to try to reach agreement on

2:44

the issues of the day. That is only

2:46

possible of course if the opposition parties are

2:48

willing to also work with us. So it's

2:51

a two-way street and if we

2:53

need a reset, we need a reset on everybody's behalf.

2:55

I think we've seen signs

2:57

of cooperation since the referendum

2:59

in 2014. I think

3:01

though the tone of the Scottish

3:04

Parliament has perhaps not been the

3:06

best for the more recent period of

3:08

time, but this is a moment where

3:10

the public will be saying, so what

3:13

are the priorities here? Now we have

3:15

some really important legislation coming up. We

3:17

have to prioritize more and you know

3:19

I will be the first to admit

3:21

that we have a large policy program,

3:23

a little too large and we need

3:26

to refocus on priorities. The

3:28

immediate cause of the FMP's problems, maybe

3:31

their bitter divorce from the Greens, whose

3:33

votes they need to stay in power,

3:36

but the crisis facing the party that's governed now

3:38

for almost 17 unbroken

3:40

years has much deeper roots.

3:43

Labour and the Tories don't agree on much,

3:45

but they do agree on what's gone wrong

3:47

here. It was the Conservatives

3:50

who tabled the motion of

3:52

no confidence in Humza Yousaf. The

3:54

prospect of defeating that vote led

3:57

him to quit. I'm joined by Craig Hoy,

3:59

who is... Emma Resource Consumption

4:01

Party know they must pay for South

4:03

of Scotland we see the prospect of

4:05

a third says minister. Since Twenty Twenty

4:08

one the last elections. Would

4:10

easy screen size willing to forces one

4:13

is the Scottish people are growing increasingly

4:15

sick and tired of the Snp government's

4:17

record on domestic policies and also that

4:19

independence obsession. So it's the perfect so

4:22

many for the Snp and that's why

4:24

I think I'm the use of was

4:26

they'll be terrible legacy he was meant

4:28

to be the continue. To candidate, but

4:31

he was just continuing the decline

4:33

that Nicola Sturgeon at embedded in

4:35

parties fortunes. Just

4:41

for. The

4:44

list mortgage and and people were hurt Sunday

4:46

night. Looking for some different kind of politics

4:49

and at a different had a vision of

4:51

a country. That's what got. Him

4:54

alongside a potential. Way

4:56

to move forward on an

4:59

endless lives. Lloyd was Nicola

5:01

Sturgeon Chief of Staff which

5:03

seen the loss of his

5:05

parliamentary election. Is

5:08

what. Is very different.

5:10

From. What I wanted that where we

5:12

are now it's the for one. So

5:14

funny. Bread and Butter. They want a public

5:17

services outlets and the public are also not

5:19

looking for them to move on independence right?

5:21

Now so the agenda? The Euro

5:23

both Nicola Sturgeon had find that

5:26

route to Independence and post about

5:28

being much more progressive in government

5:30

than the tories down south isn't

5:32

as attractive as it was a

5:34

few years ago. Spotify. That politicians

5:36

to just get on with deafening to deliver

5:38

on improving the any kids are still feel

5:41

that to put money in their pockets because

5:43

of the cost of living. And

5:46

they're less interested in the general picture.

5:48

How do we make our society better?

5:50

How to be addressed? The big challenges?

5:52

People just really want to hear essentially

5:54

what's in it for them. taking

6:00

control of the future of our own country. The

6:02

Westminster establishment doesn't want that to happen and so

6:04

the going to throw everything they can, but you

6:06

know what, I don't think it will work. It

6:09

is now almost ten years

6:11

since the independence referendum which

6:13

spawned a young, liberal, progressive

6:16

mass movement. Support for

6:18

independence has stayed high in

6:20

that decade, even as

6:22

support for the SMP has tumbled.

6:25

Nicholas Sturgeon emerged from that referendum because

6:27

the leader are something new in Scottish

6:30

politics. A realignment that Scottish politics

6:32

took place in which you had

6:34

a close alignment of young, college-educated,

6:36

left-of-centre, people dedicated to progressive causes

6:38

like the battle against climate change,

6:40

like a gender recognition legislation that

6:42

went through here and was in

6:44

the end vetoed by the UK

6:47

government. My BBC colleague Alan Little

6:49

followed every twist and

6:51

turn of that referendum.

6:53

She made herself a focal

6:55

point of that energetic, enthusiastic,

6:57

grassroots coalition. That's what took

7:00

Nicholas Sturgeon into that coalition with the Greens. The

7:02

optics were great from her point of view, but

7:05

what it led them to do was

7:07

adopt a legislative programme

7:09

of progressive causes. Do

7:12

you think in a way that that

7:14

movement you described then

7:16

hit the gruesome economic reality

7:19

in which people said, actually,

7:22

you know what, those are not our priorities.

7:24

We care about bread and butter issues. Yes,

7:26

because all that was taking place against the

7:28

backdrop of a widespread perception that

7:31

public services are collapsing and the economy

7:33

is in trouble. And so the challenge

7:35

for the next SMP leader and first

7:38

minister is to reconnect with mainstream public

7:40

opinion. And that may well being a

7:42

decoupling from this ambitious and in the

7:44

end, unrealisable, progressive agenda. A

7:48

couple of days of extremely

7:50

high drama here in Scotland

7:52

and ultimately that led to...

7:54

Not so very long ago. The

7:56

SMP liked to boast that the government they

7:59

led was stable, competent,

8:01

grown up, unlike

8:03

they claimed, the chaos of

8:06

Tory-run Westminster. It

8:08

is not a claim they can

8:10

make anymore. Hello

8:13

it's Amol Rajan here and it's Nick Robinson

8:15

and we want to tell you about the

8:17

Today podcast from BBC Radio 4. Yes

8:21

this is where we go deeper into

8:23

the sort of journalism that you hear

8:25

on Today, exploring one big story with

8:27

more space for insight and context. We

8:30

hear from a key voice each week

8:32

a leader in their field, be they

8:34

a spy chief, a historian, a judge,

8:36

a politician, all with something unique to

8:38

say and we make sure they've got

8:40

the time and space to say it.

8:42

The WhatsApps show the character of the

8:44

men who were running our country at

8:46

that point. Trump is probably

8:49

going to beat Joe Biden because

8:51

he is a force of nature.

8:53

If the next scan says nothing's

8:55

working I might buzz off to

8:57

Zurich. We give you our take

8:59

as well and lift the lid just a

9:01

little bit on how the Today programme actually

9:03

works. That is the Today podcast. Listen now

9:06

for BBC Sounds. Please subscribe. BBC

9:10

Sounds, music radio

9:12

pocky.