0:00

What's. The biggest misconception about homelessness here

0:02

in Australia? People. See the

0:04

face of homelessness in Australia

0:06

as people who are sleeping

0:08

rough. That's a real me,

0:10

because ninety four percent of

0:12

homelessness in Australia is hidden

0:14

homelessness. And by that I

0:16

mean people who may be

0:18

couchsurfing between their friends or

0:20

families houses, people who are

0:22

in short term on suitable

0:24

accommodation are people who are

0:26

living short term in motels,

0:28

so I got no way

0:30

to go. but you actually

0:33

can't. See them. So that's one

0:35

of the biggest myths, and I think

0:37

one of the other ones is

0:39

that you somehow created the problem yourself.

0:41

that because of what you did in

0:44

your life, you created this. And that's

0:46

wrong because there are so many

0:48

different pathways into homelessness. And.

0:50

Most of them with got no

0:52

control over. so there's I'm really

0:54

Casings. Sarah is

0:56

seventy two years old so she

0:58

was a grandmother like the age

1:01

of someone's grandmother and for the

1:03

very first time in her life

1:05

she found herself homeless. For Sarah

1:07

she worked all of her life

1:09

but it was a low paying

1:11

job so she didn't have a

1:13

lot of savings. she didn't have

1:15

super and she had been living

1:17

in her apartment for ten years

1:19

and the landlord said actually in

1:21

a to vacate very difficult to

1:23

find a place to live she

1:25

found share accommodation. But the

1:27

person that she was sharing with

1:30

ended up being violent. so she

1:32

ended up living in her car

1:34

and her car was parked in

1:37

church grounds. This is a Lady

1:39

in Queensland and so that was

1:41

her pathway to becoming homeless. Over

1:43

the last couple of decades, governments

1:46

have all different types. Whether the

1:48

Liberal Labour coalition, whatever it is

1:50

like hole right through to Federal

1:52

government. There's been a complete on

1:55

the investment in. Social One Affordable

1:57

Housing and the latest estimates are.

2:00

That to keep up with demand as

2:02

the next two decades. We need

2:04

nearly one million new homes.

2:07

So. It's great for people to come

2:09

to places like Mission Australia and we do

2:11

all we can to help them. but the

2:13

sexiest if he going to end homelessness us

2:15

will have to have a supply of hunt.

2:18

Rock. We don't need to the on

2:20

some cigarette up.following some people haven't been able

2:22

sit on if we want today the astray

2:24

that we all think that we should be

2:26

we need to do something about it because

2:29

it's a real crisis at the moment. Good.

2:31

I think so much for being here. If

2:33

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We. Have in place mats. Rise

3:21

as he has Berg. This is better than

3:23

yesterday to try to make a better every

3:25

single episode. Since two thousand and Thirteen on

3:27

or sugars we're gonna pull casa. I'm an

3:30

ulcer on a tv host, I'm a dad

3:32

on my stepdad, I'm a cargo bicycle rider

3:34

in the bride someone who our did right

3:36

now. I use performance enhancers at the gym.

3:39

yes I do. I

3:41

listen to a Bank or Hire and. My,

3:43

it's deadly Sky. And

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if you're having trouble getting loaded with of the

3:48

ground. Will do the

3:50

job. Snacks for the divine. That's

3:52

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3:54

can get over the counter. Tickets are selling

3:56

wonderfully well for I live gigs at the

3:58

moment is now an internet. Qualify so I

4:00

wouldn't want you to miss out. So on.

4:03

Thanks everyone that's getting on board. That links

4:05

are in the show notes. Get on a

4:07

quick sticks for a pretty light like nine

4:10

thirty so go see a headline is in

4:12

Melbourne and then come see us vs. loose

4:14

suffocation after flight night scenario. It'll be a

4:16

lot of fun. Today we're talking with sound

4:19

callous the showrunners to see I have mission

4:21

Australia at the Sea is one of the

4:23

one of these re humans that just isn't

4:26

born to help. You cannot stop her and

4:28

you will most of her among. The

4:30

things that Sharon is focusing on in

4:32

her work admission Australia is addressing be

4:34

rather grim challenge of rising harmlessness. Among

4:37

women, particularly older women in Australia.

4:39

Now this conversation, you might be

4:41

a bit confronted by some of

4:43

the misconceptions about homelessness in our

4:46

country. Sharon does share some pretty

4:48

intense stories of people she's worked

4:50

with who have experienced timelessness and

4:52

he challenges that they faced. The

4:55

helping and an individual person is very

4:57

important, however that is at the end

4:59

of the diet's treating a symptom and

5:01

not a course or Sharon also has

5:03

a lot to say about the need

5:05

for investment in social and affordable housing

5:07

and how much power and early intervention

5:09

can have. Would you talk about domestic

5:11

and family violence and the role of

5:13

education in changing attitudes and behavior? Said

5:15

that he's on the whites now does

5:17

said Grim. On I promise you this

5:19

is actually conversation full of hope. It

5:21

really is. Enjoy this chat. With.

5:23

Sound callous to. Say

5:28

Sekai that I, I, I you exhausted from

5:30

your exposure. Ninety six thousand Five hundred Ninety

5:33

Nine Ah the tell us with sense. Family

5:36

size from ninety six thousand

5:38

tell us systems whether you

5:41

like her music or not.

5:43

it's undeniable that this is

5:45

a cornerstone cultural moment. And

5:47

ninety six thousand people in

5:49

a stadium. On. A

5:52

case who you are are you to can't

5:54

do that right now? You to couldn't sell

5:56

at the absolutely yeah I'm announcing send me

5:58

what was really. Interesting. If

6:00

it wasn't that she does So without

6:03

the and Cj on one night she

6:05

sold out three nights in a row

6:07

and I'm pretty sure that is she

6:09

wanted to play for a week there.

6:11

She would have sold it out the

6:13

seven nights as well. There was just

6:15

in terms of trying to get tickets

6:17

that was unbelievable and some yes says

6:20

she's just like this phenomena that we've

6:22

never seen before. We. Talk on

6:24

the show lot about you can't be

6:26

what you can't say. She has been

6:28

courses of as she got suspicious a

6:30

wide chairs had Mario as would he.

6:33

Would. You expect you know. So unless it's

6:35

rags to riches story and or lead to

6:37

do a the a. Non inserted into like

6:40

say it's not okay Actually, it's not

6:42

an Just In I see counts healthy.

6:44

She was born ten If you know

6:46

what Sam wants thoughtful her, it sex

6:48

and not just the privileges the family

6:50

that she was born in. say. My

6:52

understanding is that. Nice is while

6:54

the hardest work on yeah it's not

6:56

just say case, she works really hard

6:59

and she's very generous person as well.

7:01

So again, what's not to love about

7:03

her? Someone who works hard work. Is

7:06

gone. You know what? I'm

7:09

kind of years to nurse. What

7:11

are your dear? In

7:14

Stride Hours. of

7:16

looking after whites in many pies more doj

7:18

a remote. Server that's they're all

7:20

working in the operating theatres. That's one

7:23

area that I specialize in when only

7:25

my much younger years As it, or

7:27

finally, masks. And that is one

7:29

full on wrong right then. especially when you're

7:31

working in a public hospital because he might

7:34

have you dial. Plan about eating to be

7:36

doing this, This this and this and I'll

7:38

take said of all day and then all

7:40

of sudden you get an emergency three the

7:43

door and he got to be totally switched

7:45

on. made said she came to a different

7:47

gear up. Really rewarding. Nothing is a great

7:49

career as one week is that as well

7:51

but it's also pretty hard on your body.

7:54

Answer you need to, they will settling. When

7:56

I was saying the most it always think.

7:58

Had to. These. Are a seat. So we

8:00

the great start a think coming out

8:02

of school because you know school you're

8:05

running around you and playground today sports

8:07

all the time but it was also

8:09

some a starting sister, a form the

8:11

card system that I want to become

8:13

an and the type says work that

8:15

I would sue and some it really

8:18

taught me about caring. For people.

8:20

In. Addition to all of these last cel. Changes and

8:23

adaptation said I was making sort of arms out

8:25

of school for you Were. On.

8:27

I'm wondering like was a car like eighties

8:29

nineties that you're working as an hour and

8:32

at the At and since? yeah it was

8:34

so survey for some Vince his in Darling

8:36

has in Sydney is at the top of

8:39

the hill. A box is Tracey their what's

8:41

the Mardi Gras parade when I alternate right

8:43

but I turn right and I got her

8:45

I say about a hundred made his further

8:48

up the left is this hospital yes side

8:50

and definitely in their eighty's while trying to

8:52

be and healthcare because it in the eighties

8:55

there was a disease that was going around

8:57

and. It was just decimating the community

8:59

of people that lived in that area

9:01

and governments around the world had literally

9:03

no idea what it was now time

9:06

were spread the just that he's like

9:08

people would die everywhere. On the Sacred

9:10

Heart Hospice which is right next door

9:12

to St. Vincent, had a sister city.

9:14

I think that's what forty beds will

9:16

answer. some not so when I'm alone

9:19

now, but it was fairly small, is

9:21

not a lot of bed. I heard

9:23

that at some point in like eighty

9:25

three, eighty two, something like that. This

9:27

is a forty bed hospice which is the

9:30

Mets the last stop as they are hospices.

9:32

If we're going to movie next door, new

9:34

friends and family can come see you and

9:36

that's where you'll that you not going again.

9:38

I'm going at night You want checkups? Forty

9:40

bezos like a hundred and twelve people that

9:43

have people in the hallways paper to send

9:45

a young man who time. I recall

9:47

Ethan for my time waking up anything

9:49

us and we gonna says few sites

9:51

as a positive patients coming through and

9:54

the dramas that it was causing because

9:56

it was he is It was this

9:58

whole need to say. We've never

10:00

really knew much about some the were

10:03

a lot of negative stereotypes surrounded at

10:05

the time and more so I think

10:07

the such a lack of understanding here

10:09

but I think something since arm and

10:12

I don't know for this because it

10:14

was Catholic Hospital Mumbai Sisters of Charity.

10:16

They see their very best to. Make.

10:19

The lives of people who were such

10:21

as a paucity of more bearable, more

10:23

tolerable. and it wasn't you know as

10:25

a public hospital he didn't always get

10:28

a fetus for an elective surgery case

10:30

is actually we had to be prepared

10:32

for all of those things. and on.

10:34

Is just bringing me back even having

10:37

this conversation. something that has changed so

10:39

much as the years and prognoses being

10:41

so much better than aware. But right

10:43

back at that stage it was here

10:46

and sauce and then since I could

10:48

have hospice only Darling says right at

10:50

the center. Would. Know that causes

10:53

why are we do a needle sick

10:55

kid to you get better. Ah so

10:57

how to we've been given was able

10:59

to Someone always scared I read or

11:01

needs it getting Macys like all these

11:03

things out here he a bloody gory.

11:05

Get whatever this all the protocols of

11:08

Am now or because of that time

11:10

yes as is Disks are you were

11:12

It's yes the world is on fire

11:14

at war in Iraq. It is. And.

11:17

It was also that. A. Ninety Eighty

11:20

One Eighty Two. And

11:23

yet. So. Many outcomes for so

11:25

many people. Whoever was so much bass. If

11:27

you are Hiv positive in I do so

11:29

I to what of us this instance. I'm

11:31

sorry if there's nothing we can do for

11:33

us now. If you have the means of

11:36

here in a country that can support you,

11:38

he can type prep everyday and lives and

11:40

own to behold Michael Irvin He has just

11:42

let us down the astounding and my last

11:44

time that that is. Hop on Know the

11:46

guy that wrote the Grim Reaper commercial loud.

11:49

See a lot will when you see

11:51

about that. I'm thinking or self price

11:53

caught nice on April Fools sites and

11:55

just how his son was traded when

11:57

he was. Sites are they posted in

11:59

Santa Transfusion. When you couldn't play

12:01

when I'm lives working from St Vincent's

12:03

I've seen went and worked for. What

12:06

That of those days? It was called The

12:08

New Southwest Blood Transfusions. Or when I was about

12:10

by the last the area and now strain rate

12:12

was last block of one i powerful and yeah.

12:14

And just again, it was all

12:16

tied into that era of Hiv

12:19

and Aids and how it was

12:21

communicated how it was, treated her

12:23

stereotypes. It was so tragic. In

12:26

seventy was the like you said.

12:28

You know some thirty forty is

12:30

on. It's such it's a disease

12:32

where it's unbelievable. An infection control

12:35

particles are such that we have

12:37

universal precautions for what if I'm

12:39

a. Easily eight or as

12:41

so. while the said to running into people,

12:44

they're having at least a layer of latex

12:46

between you and your lava. That is like.

12:49

This. Syphilis outbreaks, Is

12:51

people having unprotected sex because it's equal?

12:53

No longer just dollar. Friends don't die.

12:56

Least yes fullest what is it Dickens

12:58

novel which said so that this a

13:00

couple of things he he said

13:02

there that I am very interested in.

13:05

I your day to day jobs

13:07

is dealing with people who at. At

13:10

the absolute most critical most. Dangerous

13:13

vulnerable point in their lives.

13:16

Every day See how to use

13:18

the. Steel. Yourself to

13:20

show up in the morning and had he makes for.

13:22

You can connect with people you love are not. Well.

13:27

It's good Christian and the question I

13:29

think some nice if I go back

13:31

to my early days when I was

13:33

nursing and that was all about the

13:35

carries the people that all sites that

13:37

think grateful for our hands and some

13:39

I think listen through the years has

13:42

very much pain about that so not.

13:44

I used to think laugh if I'd

13:46

gone out and work for an big

13:48

corporate organization a can of and to

13:50

zillions of dollars but I'm would have

13:52

had no purpose and some may what's

13:55

kept me ground. What Disney. resilience is

13:57

not just myself but it's also

13:59

on a reason to get out of bed

14:01

in the morning. So it could be

14:04

overwhelming thinking we have thousands and thousands

14:06

of people who rely on Mission Australia

14:08

to get through their next day. They're

14:10

very vulnerable, often at their worst point

14:12

in life. So that could be quite

14:14

overwhelming to think about. But for me,

14:16

I kind of, you're talking about reverse

14:19

engineering, for me it's like well that's

14:21

giving me my purpose to get

14:23

out of bed every day, to do what I do.

14:25

It's really important, I'm very passionate about it. In fact,

14:27

I would say that this job

14:29

that I have now as CEO of

14:32

Mission Australia is the best

14:34

job I've ever had in my entire life.

14:36

And I've had quite a few and I've

14:38

had quite a few amazing jobs. I spent

14:40

10 years working with the Salvation Army, that

14:42

was incredible as well. So for

14:45

me, it's not a burden, it's

14:47

I see people who are at

14:49

a point in time they're living

14:51

their worst lives. And many

14:53

of them it's through no fault of

14:55

their own. And we're just here to

14:58

help. So we are a national Christian

15:00

charity and we operate right across

15:02

Australia. And we last year I

15:04

think we provided

15:07

about care and support to 150,000 people over like 463

15:09

different types of programs. And at home when

15:16

I go home at night, I just

15:18

sit and reflect on that and I

15:20

think, how did I get to be

15:22

in such a position where I could

15:25

influence that. And so I don't

15:27

have trouble when I go home, I just sit

15:29

there and I feel grateful and I'll talk to

15:31

my husband or our son about some of the

15:34

amazing things that have happened today or

15:36

some of the incredible stories that I've

15:38

heard of people who we've

15:41

actually helped and changed their lives. We

15:44

know we've got a vision at Mission

15:46

Australia and it's where we

15:48

can end homelessness. It's not just about

15:50

that, it's helping people and

15:53

communities in need to thrive. I don't think you

15:55

can just say everyone's got a roof over the

15:57

head, tick, people have a lot

15:59

of complex issues that

16:01

they need to deal with as well. And

16:03

that's the part about communities and people thriving.

16:07

And so it's more an energy boost

16:09

for me, rather than the fact

16:12

that it could be overwhelming thinking about

16:14

the weight and the pressure and the

16:16

expectations of people. What's the biggest

16:18

misconception about homelessness here in Australia? There's

16:21

a couple. One is

16:23

that people see the face of

16:25

homelessness in Australia as

16:27

people who are sleeping rough. So

16:29

they're the people that we can see. So

16:32

people sleeping on park benches, out

16:34

in open spaces. So that's

16:36

a real myth because 94%

16:39

of homelessness in Australia is

16:41

hidden homelessness. And by

16:43

that I mean people who may be couch

16:45

surfing between their friends or family's houses,

16:48

people who are in

16:51

short term unsuitable accommodation,

16:54

people who are living short term in

16:56

motels. They've got nowhere to go, but

16:59

you actually can't see them. So

17:01

that's one of the biggest myths. And I

17:03

think one of the other ones is that

17:06

you've somehow created the problem yourself, but because

17:08

of what you did in your life, you

17:10

created this. And that's

17:12

wrong because there are so many

17:15

different pathways into homelessness and

17:17

most of them we've got no control over. So

17:20

there's some really key things. Can

17:22

you explain what one of

17:24

those pathways might look like? Because I guess another misconception,

17:26

and I guess this is the one that I saw

17:28

a lot of when I was living in America, is

17:31

they don't have a public health system

17:34

like we do. So it's a lot

17:36

of really raw, volatile, untreated mental illness.

17:38

People who need a lot of help

17:42

living out of the street because they've got nowhere

17:44

else to go and they can't be around other

17:46

humans. It's really, really difficult. That

17:48

I think is also one of the misconceptions

17:50

here is that crazy

17:53

person living in the park. It's always

17:55

a crazy person. But

17:58

I'm imagining that sometimes... Yes,

18:01

you might have poor mental health because

18:03

you are struggling and you might have

18:05

some children to supporters Just you And

18:07

what's of why that someone can just

18:09

find themselves homeless And what said time

18:12

one looks like. That hundred and

18:14

twenty two thousand people homeless and starving

18:16

according to the last on census. In

18:18

Twenty twenty one. And. Is

18:21

probably one hundred and twenty two thousand

18:23

different reasons why they're harmless, but I

18:25

can talk to about a few. I'm.

18:27

Cases say so one officer. Use people's

18:29

names. That I'll talk

18:32

about Sarah First, Sarah is seventy

18:34

two years old or was seventy

18:36

two years old. Says she was

18:38

a grandmother. Like the ages someone's

18:40

grandmother. And for the theory says

18:42

time in her life she found

18:44

herself homeless. The think how can

18:46

get to seventy two As let

18:48

let let this last. We've been

18:50

gainfully employed in. And. Then

18:52

suddenly you don't have a hindsight for

18:54

Sarah. She worked all of her life

18:57

that it was a low paying job

18:59

so she didn't have a lot of

19:01

savings she didn't have settled. And unless

19:03

you've been living under a rock for

19:06

the last see his arm, he'd be

19:08

well aware of their seeds cost of

19:10

living devices right across Australia. So whether

19:12

that stays, if you were lucky enough

19:14

to Anaheim, Increasing interest

19:17

rates, massive increases.

19:19

In Rent. Utilities.

19:22

Food. Things. Becoming completely

19:24

unaffordable for she's barely hanging on

19:26

and she'd been living in her

19:28

apartment for ten. Years and the

19:31

landlord said actually in a

19:33

to vacate because. Of

19:35

Salt Block and it's being bulldozed and

19:37

we're going to be making some building

19:40

some luxury. Putins didn't really matter what

19:42

was she just didn't have a home

19:44

anymore so she looks around and know

19:46

lot of money. Very difficult to find

19:49

a place to live she sounds share

19:51

accommodation that the person that she was

19:53

sharing with ended up being violent says

19:56

she had to lay their successes of

19:58

these really tragic circumstances. The she

20:00

ended up living in her car and

20:02

says how was Pats in church for

20:04

hims This is a lady in Queensland

20:06

and so that was her pathway to

20:08

becoming homeless arms. She connected with the

20:10

place who ended up connecting her with

20:12

Mrs. Triumph and is that three years

20:14

ago now we are able to help

20:17

her Family were able to help her

20:19

find. Saw. Stable housing and

20:21

she hasn't looked back since, but

20:23

that's one pathways. Wherever women

20:25

and men compare and homelessness in

20:27

Australia. Women are the majority

20:30

women and girls are the majority

20:32

of people who are homeless. In Australia.

20:35

Yeah. That there's plenty of men like him.

20:37

As hundred and twenty two thousand, there are

20:39

still quite a group of men. obviously it

20:41

on that women and girls, and this particular

20:43

race is flat. In

20:46

terms of been overwhelmingly more likely

20:48

to be in part time jobs

20:50

than are likely to have. The

20:53

lowest paid jobs, they're more likely

20:55

to be the primary care for

20:57

children, and all of those things

20:59

lead. To lower savings Los C

21:01

Path and you consider see the.

21:04

Get the cycle from the as you're

21:06

splitting your paycheck that's already seventy tumbling

21:08

percent of. Yes and

21:10

latest Ah seat is from the

21:12

Workplace Gender Equality Agency and may

21:14

be doing more and more in

21:16

Kansas Whites surveys in the hope

21:18

that we will go in the

21:20

planet today to have wage equality

21:22

in Australia with men and women

21:24

at the moment. there is a

21:26

twenty one percent kept the most

21:28

recent study. So that means that

21:30

every dollar a man earns in

21:32

Australia a woman and seventy eight

21:34

cents. And. that man yes

21:36

the and patriarchy is address but generally

21:39

any some more like a man by

21:41

a lot every single mammal avian a

21:43

woman will stay in touch with the

21:45

children or leave the warm relate to

21:47

keep herself and a torrent sites and

21:49

gave the short answer is putting that

21:51

already puts her seventy nine cents and

21:53

because they career may have had a

21:55

break because of childbearing and and rearing

21:58

and stuff that paychecks can be than

22:00

the, you know, maybe the father of the kids, then

22:02

they're splitting it three ways, you know?

22:04

And it's not a lot there. Not a lot,

22:07

not a lot left. That's right. Yeah. So,

22:09

another example of, this

22:12

time we'll call her Natalie, and I'm particularly

22:14

using women because we are coming up to

22:17

International Women's Day. So I

22:19

think it's a great time to highlight

22:21

the plight of women as well with

22:23

Natalie. Yeah. So she was

22:25

married. I was going to say happily married, but clearly,

22:28

as I told the story, she wasn't. Her

22:30

marriage broke down. So she's gone

22:32

from having the security of

22:34

a husband with two young kids to

22:37

not having that. And the pressure

22:39

of that, also, she did

22:41

experience significant mental health issues.

22:44

So then that led to the fact that she

22:46

was trying to look after two children. She was

22:48

trying to hold down a job. She just couldn't

22:50

juggle all the balls in the air at the

22:52

one time. And so she lost her

22:55

job. That's how she found

22:57

her way to Mission Australia. So you can

22:59

look at, this is why I'm talking about

23:01

the fact that often it's not your fault.

23:03

The circumstances are out of your control. So

23:05

you've gone from having this emotional

23:08

stability, family stability, all that's

23:10

ripped out. And

23:12

then, obviously, the challenges then go from

23:14

there, mental health challenges that she

23:17

had. But again, that was, for

23:19

her, you can't call it a happy ending

23:21

when you've had a family breakdown. But

23:24

to be able to help her at Mission

23:26

Australia with her mental health issues, with helping

23:28

her find accommodation, and to be able to

23:30

get her life back on track, that's the

23:33

kind of things that we do in Mission

23:36

Australia. Whether it's trying to provide housing,

23:38

we are a community housing provider. Or

23:40

whether it's through community services. And you

23:43

often hear people talk about wraparound services.

23:46

Basically what that means, the supports available

23:48

for people. So when, if you were

23:50

to come to Mission Australia trying to

23:52

get help, we would case manage

23:54

you. And That means we would basically,

23:57

you would have a person that would sit down, they would go

23:59

through all the work. The of your circumstances,

24:01

your life circumstances and see what other

24:03

things that actually need. An eight team

24:05

that we can help you with ticket

24:08

it'll last back on track and to

24:10

help you from this really vulnerable good

24:12

sense to being a whole member. Of

24:14

the community. Again, it can. If

24:18

you have to move house for whatever

24:20

reason and then. For whatever reason

24:22

the haven't managed to put affording or as

24:24

wherever you sarah you run through a red

24:26

light you don't get the letter that I

24:29

Friday next to you know you don't realize

24:31

it and you'll be a red Jos gone.

24:33

Proceed to busy. think of everything else he

24:35

get pulled over where someone could you have

24:37

lost his place Now flagged you got a

24:40

ticket. Thousand a ticket for nine months ago.

24:42

you driving on or at school. Steve Austin

24:44

you say hundred bucks in fines you got

24:46

two hundred bucks in the bank. It's was

24:49

what's what happens attack. And and you

24:51

know Mrs, it's such a tragedy

24:53

for what we find on the

24:55

center that you can. Reach.

24:57

Out to take home, then when you're. In

24:59

their seats lessons that some things that

25:01

you're describing about their the things that

25:03

you actually sometimes you might not even

25:05

be aware that are happening in a

25:07

part of your loss and all of

25:09

a sudden they cat sat with you

25:11

for whatever reasons and then you find

25:13

yourself in this really vulnerable six leisinger

25:15

and position and ear that is incredibly

25:17

tough to the i was he get

25:19

out of. This avoids that

25:22

lives outside our. Library.

25:25

Or on our collaborates he looks like he's

25:27

been there for quite awhile. I suppose it'll

25:29

camp. Sounds. And.

25:32

I generally. Are

25:34

no. But I can only assume. Generally.

25:38

People are going to mess with her. A

25:40

guy living by himself. In

25:42

his little can. Truly a

25:44

good thing that is costs.

25:48

Of sure he doesn't seal super safe at night.

25:50

But. This I will not going miata

25:53

know what can happen there, but I can't

25:55

imagine that. same for a woman alone. And

25:57

I can either I. Think glances yet. If

26:00

you're a big bloke, people are going to

26:02

be very much more likely to leave

26:04

you alone, leave you to it.

26:06

If you're not that and you're a much

26:08

smaller woman, you have so

26:10

many issues to deal with. You talked

26:12

about safety, privacy, and

26:15

just how could you even fall asleep at night?

26:18

And when you're in that situation, then how can

26:20

you even start about turning your life

26:22

around? How can you do that? People

26:25

have got lots of preconceived ideas about

26:27

if you're a job seeker or if

26:29

you're homeless, why aren't you out there

26:32

working? And could you,

26:34

if you put yourself in their shoes, could you

26:36

imagine what's most on

26:38

your mind when you start

26:40

the day is not, gee,

26:42

I need to get my CV ready, I need

26:45

to get ready for the interview, get my dress

26:47

out, whatever it is. It's not that at all.

26:49

It's like, where am I going to sleep tonight

26:51

that I'm going to be safe? How am I

26:54

going to look after my children through the day?

26:56

There are really big questions that when you are

26:58

fortunate enough to have your own home and your

27:00

family, that don't really cross your mind every day.

27:03

And it's when the back of mum

27:05

and dad isn't there and there are no other safety nets,

27:08

then you have a real problem, which is why we're seeing

27:10

122,000 people in Australia. And

27:13

that number is increasing. In the 2016 census,

27:17

it was about 116,000, 5.2% less. I

27:21

would say maybe it's because I've just been watching Nemesis and

27:24

Joe Hockey's, the age

27:26

of entitlement is over. It

27:28

seems to be such a trope that,

27:30

and there's a wild moment in the 70s where

27:33

it happened. There was one particular columnist, one particular

27:35

paper who used the word dole bludges. And

27:38

after that, it changed everything. It was before

27:40

that. It was like, how amazing a country

27:42

are we? We can take those

27:44

of us who've had a hard time, we can

27:46

bridge the gap until they get something better and

27:48

we can get them back and help contribute to

27:50

all of us. Isn't this great? Look how much

27:53

spare money we've got. Brilliant. We're

27:55

awesome. And then a month later, it's

27:57

talk about radio dole bludges and it's... It's

28:01

so shitty. So this

28:03

idea that you are,

28:06

I've been on the dole twice. I hated

28:09

every single time I took

28:11

that money. Hated my sense

28:13

of agency, my sense of self, my sense

28:15

of worth. I felt awful

28:18

for taking charity. I was so

28:20

grateful I lived in a country that could do it. And

28:23

I paid my taxes gratefully knowing that I

28:25

can help people who are in a similar

28:27

situation. But I hated it. This

28:29

idea that people do

28:31

this by choice or for example a woman

28:35

who's left in a relationship that

28:37

was emotionally or physically abusive or wasn't safe for

28:39

her to be, is doing this so she can

28:41

get all those benefits. That

28:44

cannot help people's decision

28:46

making process whether they're

28:48

going to leave or not because there's a stigma

28:50

against taking entitlements and

28:52

taking support. It's so true and

28:54

it's such a tragedy that that's

28:57

the preconception. And you're right. I mean,

28:59

everyone's heard of the dole pledges. But

29:02

actually if you look into the numbers,

29:05

you know, you're living, if you're on Job

29:07

Seeker and you're a single person, you're pretty

29:09

much living in poverty. I

29:12

think it's about $54 a day. Now

29:15

where do you live for $54 a day in this country? I've

29:19

got no idea. What we

29:21

do, you asked about advocacy, we do

29:24

advocate on a number of areas to

29:26

government. We advocate that

29:28

the Job Seeker should be increased

29:30

to about $78 a day. It's

29:33

still only about $28,000 I think, correct me on my math. Yeah.

29:38

Where are you going to live for that?

29:40

And Commonwealth Rent Assistance, if you're single, there's

29:43

lots of different ways that you can calculate

29:45

it. But we're talking about $184 a fortnight.

29:49

So if you think for one minute

29:51

that a single person who found themselves

29:53

without a job and is trying to find

29:56

one can survive on that money and get

29:58

rich from the country and bleed Australia or whatever

30:01

you think, you're just so wrong. And

30:03

then you put into the equation, you might

30:05

be a single mum with a few kids

30:08

or even a couple on very low paying

30:10

jobs with three kids, you're still not going

30:12

to be making ends meet. And

30:14

the tragedy of that is if

30:16

you want a fully functioning and

30:18

vibrant community, that means everybody needs

30:20

to either have a job or

30:22

have some form of income so

30:24

that they can all participate. And

30:27

without that, you've got a bunch of people over

30:29

here, and then you've got the rest of us

30:31

thinking how great we are, aren't those people terrible. And

30:34

it's just not the way that, you

30:37

know, in a country like Australia, we

30:39

are, we should be, and we should

30:41

continue to be the lucky country. But

30:44

the way that things are at the moment, it's

30:46

compounded by the fact that over the

30:49

last couple of decades, governments

30:51

of all different types, whether

30:53

they're liberal, labor coalition,

30:56

whatever it is, local right

30:58

through to federal government, there's

31:00

been a complete under investment

31:03

in social and affordable housing. And

31:05

the latest estimates are that

31:08

to keep up with demand over the next

31:10

two decades, we need nearly

31:12

1 million new homes. So

31:15

it's great for people to come to places like

31:17

Mission Australia, and we do all we can to

31:19

help them. But the fact is, if

31:21

you're going to end homelessness, you actually have to

31:24

have a supply of homes. Right, you

31:26

don't need to be on to try and figure that out. But

31:28

funnily enough, some people haven't been able to. And

31:30

you know, the government, when they came into power

31:32

a couple of years ago now, they announced

31:35

that they would be investing into more

31:37

social and affordable housing. So they've got

31:40

two programs that they've recently released. And

31:42

that will have a total of 40,000

31:45

new homes being built over the next

31:47

few years. And there are various

31:49

state governments with initiatives. The Queensland government has

31:51

one at the moment called the Housing Investment

31:54

Fund. But between all of those at the

31:56

moment, we're talking about 50,000 new homes. So,

31:59

completely. That he nearly a million

32:01

over two decades with polling sites are

32:03

sort so all of these people who

32:06

are on welfare if he like and

32:08

suddenly getting rich or whatever the what

32:10

we need to realize lay a living

32:12

in terrible circumstances. They are incredibly vulnerable

32:14

people and if we want to day

32:16

the astray that we all think that

32:18

we should be we need to do

32:21

something about it because it's a real

32:23

crisis at the moment and we need

32:25

to made some crisis. We need to

32:27

do more in terms of prevention, early

32:29

intervention, And that's really successful. Not to

32:31

talk about some of those. Stories that are

32:34

not allowed for loss in I like

32:36

what are some red flags were you

32:38

able to identify? Look if we can

32:40

get into this point man on yeah

32:42

particular program we can. Yeah. We've

32:44

shown. Busy. Could bang

32:46

for buck. Yeah and we can. we

32:49

can hit. I had things off before

32:51

were getting in contact with a just

32:53

as a smoky sudden chapters go on.

32:55

These other are some great stories. Yes,

32:57

we did a report from January Twenty

32:59

Twenty ah, The Study and Silly under

33:02

Twenty Twenty Two so we released it

33:04

kind. Of meat last? Yes, Yes! And

33:06

it was a Homelessness and Housing Impacts

33:08

report And it was through all of

33:10

our clients that was saying cause. Missions try

33:12

and many of them they're nice applause but in

33:14

other states as well. And. What

33:16

it said us that we had fifty

33:18

percent of the people who were coming

33:21

to when they were at risk of

33:23

homelessness and fifty percent of people coming

33:25

to earth when the woman harmless know

33:27

when you're already homeless. We just talked

33:30

about the lack of supply we continually

33:32

get thirty percent of people into maybe

33:34

transitional low prices housing and thirty percent

33:36

maybe insulin that some but some of

33:38

them. We just can't help it all

33:41

but of people come to us before

33:43

they're harmless when they're at risk. We.

33:45

Sounds that we were able to

33:47

keep nazi for the sentiment like

33:49

that is almost everyone in their

33:52

homes and tendencies and as a

33:54

fair variety of reasons for that.

33:56

But the key message he is

33:58

rates out. Only here. Recap

34:00

early: come through organizations like Missing Strayer

34:02

and there is so much more that

34:04

we can do. When you're feeling you

34:06

have the on whether that sort of

34:08

to help you with rent and some

34:11

about is whether it's talking to your

34:13

landlord, whether it's helping you with other

34:15

things are the supports that you need

34:17

to the I was saying hi to

34:19

us. That was just the most important

34:21

part of our research in finding that

34:23

so one of the things that we've

34:25

been advocating to government recently in our

34:27

pre budget submission was we're urging the.

34:30

Government to create a five hundred

34:32

million Zola Prevention Transformation fund so

34:34

that which is she split off

34:36

from always being at the same

34:38

when people don't have a home

34:40

to be doing more incentive for

34:42

the investment prevention. early intervention is

34:45

because the results are so for

34:47

fans are and so we need

34:49

on we want self meant to

34:51

take that up as well as

34:53

building all of the new affordable

34:55

and social homes that are required

34:58

as well. As six or ninety

35:00

four percent for given at that in

35:02

Picks impacts the community as well. You

35:04

know you than you have kids that

35:07

are to move schools. Some judges the

35:09

know it's like the Mahal second upon

35:11

say the kid as to move over

35:13

time or once you know. Knowing what

35:15

I know about childhood development in my

35:18

experience and you know which my own

35:20

kids Ikea school is important See enough

35:22

is enough. Sure our prisons full of

35:24

the i'm men and women who had

35:27

unstable things happening. Yes. It's

35:29

the knock on effect eventually I'd surely

35:31

when you look at the moment I

35:33

was up the type of humanity out

35:35

of it or don't want to set

35:37

the many at whatsoever. but if you

35:39

long cross the line that's a burner

35:41

defense in the air. Yeah cause whether

35:43

via a massive in our intervention from

35:46

you know health care or the justice

35:48

system or a combination of many the

35:50

educational system saw yes gonna be way

35:52

more than than it's if it's. Absolutely

35:55

has to They so wise all that

35:57

time. Cyclists. on crisis

36:00

It's because of this underinvestment over

36:02

decades, but we've got the evidence.

36:04

We are showing this is something

36:06

governments really need to take note

36:08

of. Yeah. So what do you need to see?

36:11

What would you like? You mentioned International Women's Day.

36:13

What would you like to see change fundamentally

36:16

for the way we think

36:18

about homelessness and women,

36:20

particularly who are suffering from homelessness in

36:22

Australia? We want to see

36:25

very much a continued focus

36:27

on poverty and homelessness and

36:29

trying to prevent both of those. They're really

36:31

important to us and we want

36:33

to really focus on the workplace gender

36:35

equality stuff. We want to

36:38

see equality in wages for women. We

36:41

haven't talked a lot about domestic and

36:43

family violence, but there's a lot that I think

36:45

we need to see in terms of government

36:47

policy, trying to influence

36:49

the levers of that happening and

36:51

even advocating for more affordable child

36:53

care. These are some of the

36:56

really practical things that we can

36:58

do for women that are actually

37:00

going to help them being or

37:02

reduce them being more vulnerable and

37:04

in situations because we talked about

37:06

women leaving a

37:08

violent relationship because they can get welfare,

37:10

for instance. Well, the real story is

37:13

if I'm a woman and I have

37:15

to leave a violent relationship, the questions

37:17

that I'm asking myself, what's better to

37:19

be in a violent relationship with a

37:21

roof over my head or to

37:23

be homeless with young children? They're the choices.

37:25

They're not very good choices at all. I

37:27

think there would be nobody really

37:30

when they think about it that deeply,

37:32

nobody would want to be in that

37:34

situation, but that is the reality because

37:36

there is insufficient housing available. So

37:39

what do you think? I'd love to know your

37:41

thoughts. What are you surprised by? What are you interested

37:43

in? What are you curious about?

37:45

Just jump on Instagram. You can find the post

37:48

for Sharon there. Just drop a comment in there

37:50

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37:52

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40:04

we talk about domestic violence

40:06

and violent relationships, the

40:10

numbers are staggering when you

40:12

look at which way the graphs are

40:14

going. Is there any work

40:16

that you've done that tries to identify the causes of these

40:19

things or where these things might be coming from or why

40:21

they seem to be getting worse?

40:24

There's a lot of pressures on people

40:27

and there are in some communities, it's

40:29

a lot of those things that

40:31

they get stressed, men get stressed. Domestic

40:34

violence is not just exclusively affecting

40:37

women, but the overwhelming majority are

40:39

women who are affected by it.

40:43

Talking about the report that we did, we

40:45

saw a 30% increase in

40:48

people, women coming to us

40:50

when they were experiencing domestic and family

40:52

violence. We've got a number

40:54

of programs in Mission Australia and some

40:56

of them are geared towards men who

40:58

have been offenders, who have caused domestic

41:00

and family violence. There's a great program

41:02

that we're running in regional New South

41:04

Wales in Dubbo and it's working with men

41:07

who are the perpetrators and trying to change

41:09

their behaviour and get them to understand

41:12

that actually what you think is normal and

41:14

okay, it's not okay. So there's a lot

41:17

to do in terms of the education side

41:19

as well. In my job, I

41:22

have had the great fortune, started in radio when I

41:24

would be on the phones all the time. I'm

41:26

a curious person, so I have to find out and

41:28

spend time with people from all over

41:31

the country. I've

41:34

been flabbergasted, to be honest,

41:36

at some of the things I've heard men

41:38

who are in their mid-20s say

41:42

amongst each other and have been

41:44

completely unchallenged and be completely normal

41:47

and I look at these guys and I'm

41:49

like, I don't think you're doing that because

41:52

you don't particularly feel that way. You

41:55

Just don't know that it's really not okay. And

41:57

you don't know that it's really not okay because

41:59

no one... Any we need you has

42:01

told you it's not okay. So now

42:03

suddenly when the cops show up and

42:05

whatever who are like with courses surprised

42:08

she was less slept for around the

42:10

this is nothing wrong with that. who

42:12

have that's. That may. I

42:14

first saw him that behavioral

42:16

editor and it's crazy that

42:18

actually families have been reconciled.

42:21

Through. Going through those the high

42:23

for what main tank? So there's

42:25

also what salts. Unbelievable that Nfc

42:27

South happen on so right. Whether

42:29

it's an education campaigns, whether it's

42:32

advertising building awareness, there's a lot

42:34

more than me down said that

42:36

men know and we're talking generally

42:38

about men, it's not a kite

42:40

on that is not the norm

42:42

aren't to be doing that up

42:45

and sadly also to women to

42:47

understand it's not okay, what's happening?

42:49

See them until my seal. So

42:51

scared. That there is such a life

42:53

threatening situations that they then title of

42:55

the decision to leave and some of

42:58

them believing they just walking out the

43:00

door night and have differing they charge

43:02

of the Id documents. Let's assume anything

43:04

they're not gonna get back in the

43:06

house is the husband's there's no and

43:08

a partner ready sister lives have another

43:11

go when I come back. So that's

43:13

why Education Some in education women that

43:15

both important. If it's so people

43:17

com harmless as as most of them they

43:19

charlie's for absolutely nothing to do with him

43:21

but they are the ones are gonna be

43:24

the biggest blocked. what can an outcome looks

43:26

like for somebody for example, found themselves harmless

43:28

under the age of ten. What can the

43:30

a last look like with cried interventions? What

43:32

are some what's the tile? What you can

43:35

tell us about a kid. Well

43:37

as a lot of women and men.

43:39

even though women are the majority men

43:42

are homeless islam and they have kids

43:44

with them and and the best outcome

43:46

really is the able to find. The

43:49

causes of something harmless. And when

43:51

I say that it's because of

43:53

the wraparound services or talked about

43:55

earlier so that we can actually

43:57

help people Like for instance, has

44:00

I had mental health issues? Have

44:02

I got addiction problems? and I

44:04

just need financial counseling? There. Are

44:06

so many things so if we can

44:08

help with that and then housing becomes

44:10

available. What that means is that they

44:13

got stability back and means that a

44:15

child of teens who has been homeless

44:17

can actually go back into the system

44:20

and the school system have a stable

44:22

school to sell up normal social relationships.

44:25

Children. Were a lot of the pressure

44:27

you know sometimes we think he just

44:29

ten you don't understand like to understand

44:31

it is and said the i will

44:33

send them to let dolls that stress

44:35

in that worry. Is almost

44:37

giving them and normal childhood back. But

44:39

we know that it's not just about

44:42

and childhood right now. it means this

44:44

is putting them on a par for

44:46

the rest of their lives. And

44:49

the more. That we can help families

44:51

with young kids to get into that

44:53

position that that back. There.

44:55

Stable housing and most kids and some

44:57

of those kids we know with heard

45:00

stories of lots of people his com

45:02

and they had died this in a

45:04

really tragic situation so that had to

45:06

deal with and they can blossom as

45:08

I can just been really successful paypal

45:10

and as only hardships can actually help

45:13

them in Los Going back to the

45:15

discussion about his zealand says wealth or

45:17

they can just leave a regular life

45:19

when they've got my you know they've

45:21

got a job that part of the

45:23

community and they the things that. Way

45:26

we really want to hook for. but

45:28

regardless of, it's as if it's a

45:30

man or a woman with kids for

45:32

us. The thing that I was stressed

45:34

most of all his early intervention. Put

45:37

your hands up a few needs help

45:39

because I'm more the eg. that and

45:41

let people know sicily a problem said

45:43

is a problem. half an hour arm

45:45

people he saw himself harmless, but they

45:48

kind of wanna pretend it's not really

45:50

happening to them. They're reluctant to reach

45:52

out to family or friends and we

45:54

would say just. To get your pride, Do

45:56

that because family and friends can often provide a

45:59

lot of support. you and if that's

46:01

not available come to organizations like

46:03

Mission Australia and come early and

46:06

we can work with you on an individual

46:08

basis to find out what the reasons are

46:10

for you being in that situation. All

46:13

of those steps, the sooner the better, is

46:16

going to help you get a good outcome

46:18

rather than being on a housing waiting list.

46:20

So, you know, I talked about the demand

46:22

for the next couple of decades. You know,

46:24

across Australia at the moment, I think there's

46:26

about 224,000 people on the wait list for

46:28

housing today. It's probably an

46:32

underestimate of people because there might be many people that

46:34

aren't even on those lists yet haven't figured how to

46:36

get onto them, haven't reached

46:39

out for help. And all of these

46:41

things we keep going back to if

46:43

you want to have a really vibrant

46:45

community where everybody feels safe, everyone

46:47

can thrive, then we really have to

46:49

address this issue and we don't want

46:51

it to continue to be the crisis.

46:53

We want to help people early. I don't

46:55

know if this is the work that you've done,

46:58

but maybe in your experience with Salabos and maybe

47:00

Mission Australia, but you talk about policy. I'm

47:02

interested to know about what

47:05

role NIMBYism has in, you

47:08

know, social and affordable housing, what

47:11

the misconceptions about that are and

47:13

what benefits can

47:16

actually come to a community

47:18

with a more diverse socioeconomic

47:20

makeup. It's

47:22

a great question because at the moment

47:24

we really are looking at planning and

47:26

doing things differently and it's to

47:28

try to get a whole of community

47:30

functioning together with all different types of people.

47:33

As opposed to back in the day, you

47:35

know, you've all seen the ghettos on TV. That's

47:37

why there's parts of Sydney. People go, oh, I

47:40

guess, you know. Don't go over to that side. Yeah, because

47:42

you know, you don't want to go to there. It's like,

47:44

mate, there's parts of Sydney I don't want to walk through.

47:46

And people who live there don't want

47:48

to walk through there. Because in the 80s they went,

47:50

this is a great idea. No, no, terrible idea. Really

47:53

Bad idea. So Let me talk to you

47:55

just briefly about a project that we have

47:57

at the moment and it's out at: Macquarie

47:59

Park. If they called me

48:01

camp and what we are doing

48:03

there. Are people who outside as

48:05

I see any rights to say good

48:07

part of you city where when you

48:09

drive at a town my mom dad

48:11

says to because they're and at as

48:13

a bind now that's that caught apply

48:15

says. Says very much. Mister Policy

48:18

of Sydney. Inform the rights and

48:20

acquire University. Big big shopping center

48:22

that vibrant Raleigh area. Answer that

48:25

building a new sites out there

48:27

you community A said it's absolutely

48:29

gonna be beautiful parks, essays and

48:32

real community sale. but as part

48:34

of that was this a lot

48:37

of private buildings that are going

48:39

up that will be sold for

48:41

paypal or just regular or thousand.

48:44

One hundred, yet a lot of about Seattle bored

48:46

yet as. Also we have nine hundred

48:48

and fifty social hands being developed and

48:50

a hundred and thirty affordable handsome affordable

48:52

homes that the people who were saying

48:54

on lower incomes and it's obviously the

48:56

rents all the prices are just a

48:59

bit too high and so it's a

49:01

whites has sort of provide housing for

49:03

that close the people as well as

49:05

people who are in social housing and

49:07

want to say about that is with

49:10

just about to open our size one

49:12

of the social housing which has two

49:14

hundred and sixty nine apartments. Why they.

49:16

Are. Absolutely beautiful

49:18

says. The at any would

49:20

be happy and proud to lives there

49:23

so they're gonna be fully integrated in

49:25

this community is so that nobody has

49:27

a stigma everybody has right today there

49:30

and everybody can enjoy the been for

49:32

parklands and the community facilities that of

49:34

being put out there and we have

49:37

people that will be working there still

49:39

provide support for people who need it

49:41

that isn't very big sis to like

49:44

Forty years ago fifty years ago when

49:46

as he said he wouldn't will walk

49:48

down. Certain streets because the building for

49:50

terrible the way that it was set

49:53

up with really not that. High rises

49:55

in million the ones we saw getting

49:57

locked out your enclosure. something forensic has

49:59

not day. Had a way of the

50:01

future is. So. An official doesn't. It is a

50:03

stigma and the same going. To get

50:05

it's also very much the where the

50:07

future is integrating all different types of

50:10

people communities and it just brings the

50:12

benefits out for everybody said. That is

50:14

a really exciting developments and the plans

50:16

for the seats are certainly that we

50:19

have as a community housing provider and

50:21

I know others as well is to

50:23

build on that design and make everybody

50:25

feel welcomed, Everybody being a part of

50:28

the community. This and it's just as

50:30

a completely different. Story to what we

50:32

would have said you would be no

50:34

years ago during the during as if

50:36

they research case wasn't behind Atlanta religion

50:38

and Chloe size. This is better at

50:40

cause everybody's absolutely it is and that's

50:42

so important to July. There's a really

50:44

interesting model of us in Utah or

50:47

as you know that this the Utah

50:49

more with it's I. Basically. Type

50:51

the boy living in a little fighting the

50:53

canopy and additionally was my arise with moment

50:55

and Nine Yards job skills. We had a

50:57

shower you up when he gets you closer,

50:59

able to give you a house and in

51:01

within a year. This. Person. Is

51:04

buying aren't. Working every day's

51:06

has friends don't want to

51:09

make that choice but he'd.

51:11

Fallen so far down some. Just as you

51:13

talking about it we spoke about. you know

51:15

it's financial support. Is. You

51:17

don't know what? You're. Getting into

51:20

his signing and because no one in

51:22

your last meme of New Zealand treating

51:24

noises I don't see i have like

51:26

it's gross example but as example okay

51:28

if I had the most. Horrible,

51:31

horrible, horrible, horrible Tinian. All.

51:34

About twenty. A didn't know what

51:36

it was. No one Ever.

51:38

He not was living at home I don't

51:40

know what was nobody on you are a

51:43

just heard was no internet and what's a

51:45

doctor with is stirring sores by this point

51:47

couldn't even with shoes to like. That's.

51:50

Deathly for this tinny ass off. And

51:52

said look, I'm a smoker I am working. you

51:54

know but i just didn't know what it was and someone

51:57

just had to tell me your or that's what are these

51:59

and is really You're also going to need some drugs and...

52:01

Yeah, and you can sort it out. And I sorted it out. That

52:04

is an example of like, it's so obvious

52:06

to everybody else. I just didn't know what it

52:08

was. And it's... But you know what?

52:10

Okay, so Tynia is an interesting example, but

52:12

what it does say really clearly is that

52:14

if you have not been exposed

52:16

to that before, I haven't had

52:18

the experience of it, you just need someone

52:20

to help you. Didn't see anybody else struggling with it. Exactly. Yeah,

52:24

it's an issue. So it's very the same. Like

52:27

how do you hold down if you've never

52:29

had your own apartment or a

52:31

place to call your home? How do you know

52:33

what it's like? How do you know how to

52:35

budget? How do you know how to be a

52:37

responsible tenant? And these are all

52:40

really things, important things for people

52:42

who have been homeless. You don't

52:44

automatically inhale deeply and

52:46

understand all of those responsibilities and

52:48

requirements of doing that. You need

52:51

help. And so your example

52:53

was very easily and very quickly it

52:55

was solved. So the support

52:57

provided by us and our teams are

53:00

such that you actually can learn

53:03

the skills that you need to learn.

53:05

Yeah, very... But they're not just going to

53:07

magically happen. And very quickly if you

53:10

don't have the financial literacy, and it's no fault

53:13

of your own, you may not understand how a

53:16

payday loan works or what happens if

53:18

you don't pass the inspection or you

53:20

can't keep your bond or now if

53:22

you're operating on income like 30 grand,

53:25

40 grand a year,

53:27

$1500 bucks of a speeding ticket or losing a license or

53:29

a red joke, well that's going to... Catastrophic.

53:32

Absolutely. That is the difference

53:34

between you being able to put food in your kid's

53:36

mouths and you living in your car. But

53:39

the margins for error are so slim,

53:41

you know, because these economic levels are

53:43

put in place so everyone just pay your bills on time

53:45

and we won't mess you up. I understand. People want people

53:47

to do the right thing so you give an incentive to

53:49

not mess up. But if you don't know that, just

53:52

because you don't know, that's okay. No shame to

53:54

not know. It's so

53:56

quickly how very rapidly you can just end up

53:59

in a hollow... and it cascades from that.

54:02

As we mentioned before, if you miss a letter or if

54:04

you are not living here or there, next

54:06

thing you know, you get an hold in for... Think,

54:09

how did this happen to me? Now you

54:11

need a lawyer, But I

54:13

can't afford that. At least maybe I can get legal

54:15

aid, but like, you know, it's just exactly

54:18

great examples on how

54:21

easily things can change. And imagine all

54:23

of those things like you're just talking

54:25

about, imagine the stress and

54:28

the issues. Oh my gosh. I don't

54:30

know, not to mention... Your family, your

54:32

stuff, your kids. Yeah, you

54:34

know what? A boxer cask one makes

54:36

sense. I don't drink anymore, but

54:38

I understand why you'd want to numb it

54:40

out. I absolutely get why you

54:42

would want those uncomfortable... I definitely drank

54:45

to try to make uncomfortable thoughts and

54:47

feelings stop. Absolutely. I totally understand it,

54:49

you know, how it can just kind

54:51

of cohabitate. But then you also totally

54:54

understand about the importance of reaching out

54:56

and seeking help and support, right? I

54:58

had to wait until it was changed.

55:00

I got told

55:02

14 years before I actually

55:04

stopped. So people did

55:06

tell me. I did ignore them. It's

55:09

not uncommon. It sounds to me that

55:12

we've got enough resources to feed everyone on the planet

55:14

right now. We really do. It

55:16

takes a few shifts with the

55:18

way our agriculture works, but

55:20

there's more than enough water and more

55:22

than enough food for everybody and more,

55:24

all right? People panic a lot about

55:26

it. That's actually just a

55:29

few efficiencies here and there. We're going to be okay. It

55:31

sounds to me that in Australia, there's

55:33

really no reason that anyone should be homeless right

55:35

now. I agree completely. And you

55:37

know what? I think government's the same

55:39

as well. Now's the time. We can

55:41

talk about what happened yesterday. What

55:44

happened yesterday? Not much in terms

55:46

of, well, lots of things happened yesterday, but

55:48

in terms of trying to solve homelessness. Yesterday

55:51

and the decades before, but

55:53

our golden opportunity is now to make

55:56

things better for the future. And

55:58

yes, it requires. government. It

56:01

requires organisations like Mission Australia and

56:03

other community service organisations, it requires

56:07

help from business, it requires help

56:09

from philanthropy and fundraising. We haven't even talked

56:11

about that but there are a lot of

56:14

services that we provide that don't even get

56:16

government funding but that have great outcomes. All

56:19

of us working together and trying to

56:21

address this, there's no reason why we

56:23

can't solve this problem in Australia and

56:26

have it to be something of yesterday

56:28

and not to challenge or to rule

56:30

our futures. It doesn't need to be

56:33

that way. Desperate people

56:35

do desperate things and

56:37

desperate things can sometimes make communities

56:39

less safe and then we

56:42

all start to jump at spiders and I didn't

56:44

want to tell you this, but when I was

56:46

sitting up here... Was there a spider near me?

56:48

Matthew Huntsman is sitting out of my yoga bag.

56:51

Yeah, okay I'm not really scared of spiders. I'm

56:53

not telling the truth. I hate spiders. No, it's

56:55

fine. It's locked away. It's in that bag somewhere.

56:57

It'll find its way out later on. But

57:00

I didn't want to tell you

57:03

until the end. But desperate people

57:05

make desperate choices and desperate

57:08

choices, desperate things that those desperate people can

57:10

do can make communities feel less

57:12

safe and then when communities feel less safe then

57:14

they feel desperate and then it just becomes a

57:17

cogmire and then next thing you

57:19

know, everyone's got barbed white fences and every

57:22

kid walking down the streets is suspect and you know...

57:24

And how can that be good for all of us?

57:26

It's not good for anybody. It's not good for anybody.

57:29

And trying to make the problem go to

57:31

a suburb far, far away, that doesn't help

57:33

either. It just, we all end

57:36

up paying for it in the end. We do. With

57:38

our public health and you know, our justice system. So

57:41

I'm grateful to know that there's people

57:43

like yourself who are working

57:45

hard. And I'm sure, I'm so sure

57:47

that there are people in government

57:49

who really want to do the

57:52

right thing. Yep. And we

57:54

believe they do too. And that's certainly,

57:56

you know, as I said earlier, that

57:58

was one of the... on the

58:01

whole more platform was to have more housing.

58:03

And I guess Anthony Albanese, he talks quite

58:06

freely about his being brought up

58:08

in social housing and the tough things that

58:10

he had to deal with. So

58:12

we just need them to keep

58:15

honoring their commitment, investing more. And

58:18

we can see a change that will make

58:20

Australia a fully functioning community and

58:22

not one that just their other haves and

58:24

have nots. Yeah, he's tell us this now, people give

58:26

you shit. Like, oh, now you're on more than one property and now

58:28

you're prime minister, blah, blah, blah, blah. Which

58:31

is it? Yeah. Can I, can I not?

58:33

Yeah. It's bonkers. It

58:35

is. He talks about using exercise, even

58:38

in your early career, you talked about using

58:40

exercise, not only to fortify you for

58:43

the job you were doing, but we

58:45

are also using it as a way to downregulate.

58:47

We are using it as a way to manage

58:49

and give yourself the mental resilience to deal with

58:52

what was happening. Yeah, absolutely. In

58:54

my job that I currently do, but

58:56

I guess in managing life in

58:58

general, we all need to have

59:01

resilience. And for me, physical activity

59:03

is very much about building my

59:06

health, but resilience,

59:08

and in particular, my mental

59:10

health and ensuring that that's a great

59:12

outlet for me. If I have that release,

59:15

it's almost like, okay, I can deal with the

59:17

day now, whatever the challenges

59:19

that are thrown at me. And

59:22

I think some people may under arrest,

59:24

if you're not, you know, people will look at

59:26

me and think, oh, you're a Jim junkie,

59:28

or you're a bit crazy with what you do. But

59:31

I think people underestimate the fact

59:33

that having good physical health does

59:36

build resilience in you. And I

59:39

think everybody, if they can get a bit of exercise,

59:41

it doesn't need to be dreams. A walk, yeah. But

59:44

a walk, right? So you're outside, you're in

59:46

a fresh air, so already you're winning. And

59:49

then you actually add a bit of

59:51

activity on that. And it really does,

59:53

if I don't exercise, ask my husband,

59:57

I think that's what I'm like. I think that's what he wouldn't talk to me. She would

59:59

be like, just go. I'm trying to cancer have

1:00:01

killed more. Get on. Can you bought

1:00:03

your says? There's a lot to be

1:00:05

a morbid. Exploring this debate on this.

1:00:07

I. Exercise.

1:00:10

Has. A I understand why they

1:00:12

sold at this whites but selling exercise

1:00:14

the thing you do for an aesthetic

1:00:16

result. I think as

1:00:18

movement even the of the general public

1:00:21

a great disservice. he a cause there

1:00:23

are ah. Hormones and your

1:00:25

transmitters that get released only through a

1:00:27

certain level of activity that allow you

1:00:29

to shift midsize easier. They allowed you

1:00:31

to sleep better by a way to

1:00:33

calm down quicker. They allow you have

1:00:35

a bit more spice. Before he shouted

1:00:37

someone who's been that comes from exercise

1:00:39

and. The as a great thing

1:00:41

to go three a day with air is as

1:00:43

we did mention if I don't I get trinkets

1:00:46

and yeah but the perfect and it sold as

1:00:48

if like this is how you get is expected

1:00:50

to say get a bikini body yep this is

1:00:52

how you actually and mrs hated been density at

1:00:54

them fifty say the zebra to see how you

1:00:56

live longer how you make sure you home israelis

1:00:58

for free his. Has really that that a loss

1:01:00

and also. I find it is will

1:01:03

It helps me process problems. I love

1:01:05

the bus. My folks were doctors. I

1:01:07

know what I saw every day at

1:01:09

work. If you're working operating theatre like

1:01:12

not everybody. List for surgery. Every

1:01:14

so everything's got risks. Some people sometimes you

1:01:16

try to save the leg he thought was

1:01:18

it outside the like sorry yes he gonna

1:01:20

lose and I like you can't. Make.

1:01:22

This scar on if I smoke accident you

1:01:24

can live the rest the a lot with

1:01:27

looking like a Bond villain when pisses and

1:01:29

that's hard you know to go home to

1:01:31

and what's wrong with you are both my

1:01:33

parents would have to do that when I

1:01:35

can harm. They never exercised substantial than cigarettes

1:01:38

and alcohol was my dad's way out. Of

1:01:41

another price Not agree or not good.

1:01:43

Not law society, but there is something

1:01:45

is no problem. But. I've ever

1:01:48

had when I get on the bicycle back when

1:01:50

I used to run that I didn't come back

1:01:52

with a solution for or nice seeing the infield.

1:01:54

Just bitter about. can offer on

1:01:56

said is t things i would

1:01:58

say on that and system Sometimes

1:02:00

I will be mulling over a

1:02:02

problem and I'll go for a run or

1:02:04

a ride or swim and by

1:02:07

the time I come back, sometimes

1:02:09

I don't even know how I got back.

1:02:11

Like I'm in such a zone

1:02:13

that I think, oh my gosh, I'm back

1:02:15

here already. So for me,

1:02:18

that's pretty special to be able to do that.

1:02:20

I mean, you need to be sort of deep

1:02:22

in thought. You've got a very sort of deep

1:02:24

conversation with you about it, but that actually happens

1:02:26

to me, which is incredible. And I think the

1:02:28

other thing is what you

1:02:31

were saying earlier about it's

1:02:33

being sold wrong, because actually,

1:02:35

if you actually could

1:02:37

say it's all about someone's health

1:02:39

and their ability to deal with

1:02:41

the day-to-day, maybe

1:02:43

more people would think about it

1:02:46

a bit more seriously. And it doesn't

1:02:48

have to, you don't have to look like... You don't

1:02:50

have to be a nani. You don't have to be, even though,

1:02:52

I'm a big fan of the

1:02:54

way he has been speaking in the last

1:02:56

couple of years. He's very honest about, you

1:02:58

know, I've had three bypasses from... He

1:03:01

talks about the effect on his body by doing

1:03:03

all the gear has done

1:03:06

to him. Yet

1:03:08

it's very clear how... I

1:03:10

don't know if you watch the documentary, but he's... No,

1:03:13

it's on my list. He is... I

1:03:15

thought it's really good. He's not David Beckham's t-shirt drawer. I

1:03:17

have watched that one. Have you seen that one? The Beckham

1:03:19

one? Yeah, yeah. He's

1:03:21

not David Beckham's t-shirt drawer level, but

1:03:24

he's like, I have a

1:03:26

picture of him, what I want to do. And I'll just put

1:03:28

the processes in the way I used to do it and not let anything get

1:03:30

in the way. Right. It's

1:03:33

like, okay. Okay, well, he's on my list. I have

1:03:35

seen Robbie Williams one. Did you see that? I

1:03:37

had to stop watching it. Did you?

1:03:39

Yeah. Wow. Tell

1:03:41

me why. I know you weren't interviewing me,

1:03:43

but... I'm about

1:03:46

25 days away from being 14

1:03:48

years sober. And some of

1:03:50

the footage... Yeah. Because we are the same

1:03:52

age, you know. Some of the

1:03:54

footage of the era. It

1:03:56

was a bit, you know, brought

1:03:58

a bit too much back. back. Yeah,

1:04:02

it was a bit, whoa, far out. Yeah.

1:04:05

Yeah. And so, yeah, that's kind

1:04:07

of, I like the way they did it. He's just sitting on

1:04:09

his bed in his undies, watching it. Yeah, I'm not sure

1:04:11

about the undies bit, but that's him,

1:04:14

right? That's his thing. Yeah. And

1:04:16

I found it a bit tough. I found it a bit

1:04:18

tough because I

1:04:21

truly convinced myself I was having the best time ever.

1:04:24

And you know, when I think about it

1:04:26

now, it was actually, it was just really, really

1:04:29

quite destructive coping. Yeah, but that's an amazing

1:04:31

nearly 14 years. Nearly 14

1:04:33

years, yeah. Wow, that is incredible. Mate, it's

1:04:35

just- We've taken a lot of hard work

1:04:37

for that too. Yeah, but it's only hard

1:04:39

work a day. It

1:04:42

literally is. It's a day at a time. Sometimes it's an

1:04:44

hour at a time. Yeah.

1:04:47

And sometimes it's five minutes at a time. And those

1:04:49

five minutes have filled with a phone call. In

1:04:51

the early years, it was, I got really sick as

1:04:53

well. I went through all kinds of mental

1:04:56

health problems. I've experienced psychosis and all kinds of

1:04:58

shit. If I was still drinking, forget it. I

1:05:00

wouldn't be here. I'd be dead. I'd

1:05:03

be dead. Absolutely. Because

1:05:05

I would have got the fucks and

1:05:07

that would have been it. But thank goodness

1:05:09

I had the skill set of getting sober

1:05:12

when I got really sick because I had all the

1:05:14

things I knew how to do before you do

1:05:17

anything dumb. Pick up a phone and check it with someone else's

1:05:19

brain. That's something I'd call 20

1:05:21

people in a day. And that'll go,

1:05:23

no, no, no. That's okay. I trust you. Yes.

1:05:27

And yes, my doctor, I've got a point to see him in

1:05:29

two days. It's the earliest I can get in. I'm going to

1:05:31

go. Are you going to be there? Yeah, I'm going to be

1:05:33

there. So I know I make a plan, get checked out with

1:05:35

someone else and just don't do anything. Don't

1:05:38

do anything. And was physical activity for

1:05:40

you part of your journey for recovery?

1:05:43

It wasn't until it wasn't. I

1:05:46

ignored a lot of red flags. I

1:05:49

ignored when I was no longer able to downregulate.

1:05:52

When I was no longer able to calm myself down and when

1:05:54

the running wouldn't work anymore. I

1:05:57

didn't go and get help even though I really, really

1:05:59

should have. I didn't. I thought

1:06:01

I could still handle it. I thought that

1:06:03

I'd always been all right. I

1:06:05

would run. I'd see shit on

1:06:08

the road and whatever, and I'd kind

1:06:10

of shout stuff. Venice

1:06:12

Beach, people are doing

1:06:14

that anyway. Absolutely. And

1:06:16

it would be okay for about 20 minutes, half an

1:06:18

hour, maybe sometimes an hour after my run, but then

1:06:20

it'd be just as bad. So

1:06:22

I really, that was a massive thing

1:06:24

that I know now. I

1:06:26

reverse engineered the whole thing. I was very

1:06:30

particular about it. And so there's a few flags

1:06:33

that go back to like, now

1:06:36

it's like if I get three nights in a row where

1:06:38

I'm kind of like having

1:06:40

interrupted sleep, waking up less

1:06:43

than five hours continuously, I

1:06:45

call my doctor. Yeah. That's it. Because I

1:06:47

know what happens next. You know the red flags. I

1:06:49

might think I'm fine. I might convince I'm fine. How

1:06:53

many espressos can I take today? I'll be all right. I

1:06:56

know that that's the symptom of something else that

1:06:59

I can't yet realise. But I

1:07:01

know that. I'm lucky to know that. There's

1:07:03

a lot of people that don't realise

1:07:05

because it feels real. It

1:07:08

feels real. And if you've never understood that your

1:07:10

brain can feed you

1:07:12

bad information and you're acting

1:07:15

on delusion, of course, the world's

1:07:17

terrifying. And anyone that tells

1:07:19

you otherwise, well, they're even on it. And

1:07:21

I've been there. It's terrible. Yeah.

1:07:23

Terrible. I mean, I can't

1:07:25

sit out. Look, International Women's Day, I mean, it

1:07:28

should be every day like Valentine's Day. My

1:07:33

eldest, she's 20 and I

1:07:35

can see her generation. They

1:07:37

are very proactive, very forward

1:07:39

thinking people. They're very aware of their

1:07:42

own power. They're very certainly

1:07:44

the kids that she hangs out with. They're very

1:07:46

aware of their own agency and very aware of

1:07:48

their worth. How

1:07:52

can, for example, young women, 20 up

1:07:54

to, you know, 30, something, how can those women

1:07:56

help the 72 year old that

1:07:59

you mentioned earlier? What can those women

1:08:01

do to advocate for

1:08:04

with their skill set of being able to speak

1:08:06

up in a way that other generations may not

1:08:08

have purely because of the systems they grow up

1:08:10

in? What can women like that

1:08:12

do to help those other women? Well

1:08:15

I think firstly what you were talking about, they do

1:08:17

have a voice and they're, I was

1:08:19

going to say they're strong voices and generally they're

1:08:21

not afraid to use them. We

1:08:24

need to be more courageous in

1:08:26

terms of speaking out. So

1:08:28

with International Women's Day coming up on

1:08:30

the 8th of March there'll be lots

1:08:32

of morning teas and there'll be lots

1:08:34

of high-fiving and celebrating about how great

1:08:36

it is, how far we've come. So

1:08:40

that's great because it's an opportunity to highlight

1:08:42

things but I think we need to be

1:08:44

careful thinking that the answer is not just

1:08:46

in having lots of morning teas and doing

1:08:48

that but that's the start because it builds

1:08:51

awareness. So your daughter and her friends and

1:08:53

women everywhere and men as well because they

1:08:56

are helping to solve the problem as well

1:08:58

is actually it's using their voice, it's being

1:09:00

courageous, it's about speaking up and saying the

1:09:02

way things are at the moment is not

1:09:05

okay. We need to accelerate progress. That's

1:09:07

one of the themes of International

1:09:10

Women's Day. Let's get the

1:09:12

21.1% or actually it's closer to 22%

1:09:14

wage gap. Let's

1:09:16

get rid of it and they're

1:09:19

monitoring that but let's accelerate

1:09:21

progress. Let's absolutely do that.

1:09:23

Let's make sure that the women

1:09:25

don't always have to be overwhelmingly

1:09:28

the majority of people who are on

1:09:30

low incomes. Fixing

1:09:32

those kind of structural problems will

1:09:35

actually help for the longer term.

1:09:37

Your elders, so there's a lot she

1:09:39

can do in terms of using her voice and it's

1:09:41

advocating to government as well but

1:09:44

they can also reach out to organisations

1:09:46

like Mission Australia. We've got over a

1:09:48

thousand volunteers as it is. We're always

1:09:50

looking for people who can volunteer and

1:09:53

as I said earlier who can fundraise

1:09:55

as well to help us

1:09:57

with the areas that we're not funded. So

1:10:00

there are a myriad of things to do. What they

1:10:02

need to do is they need to be willing to

1:10:04

put their hands up and they need to speak out

1:10:06

and have a courageous voice. And

1:10:08

amongst us all, and with the men

1:10:10

as well, we can make the change

1:10:12

that we wanna see to make Australia

1:10:15

the best community that it can be. If

1:10:17

we do see, you know, today, people

1:10:20

driving usually when they listen to this, if they

1:10:22

do see someone who's, you know, homeless or they

1:10:25

can see someone who's kind of struggling a bit, what's

1:10:27

a reframe question that we might be able to ask ourselves when

1:10:29

we look at them. Well, we don't look at

1:10:32

them and think, gee, I wish you'd get out of

1:10:34

the way because you're in my way of getting into

1:10:36

the supermarket. It's actually thinking, how did

1:10:38

this happen? How did this person get to be

1:10:40

this way? And what can we be doing as

1:10:42

a community to help them? And you know, often

1:10:44

kneel down, sit beside them, say hello, say, how

1:10:47

you going? We've got a guy in our local

1:10:49

supermarket. He's there all the time. I

1:10:51

know who he is. I know his name. For whatever

1:10:53

reason, he doesn't wanna leave. He doesn't wanna change his

1:10:55

life, but he does love having a chat. Make

1:10:58

them feel human and just find out if there are

1:11:01

things that you can do to help. And

1:11:03

I think maybe people

1:11:05

sometimes are afraid to approach people

1:11:07

and just think, just

1:11:09

lose that. Just think, actually, what can I do to

1:11:11

help? Yeah. So

1:11:13

have I, have you. Thanks to your patients earlier when

1:11:15

all the chaos is happening. Oh, I'm loving it. Thank

1:11:18

you. You're so much for having me. That

1:11:22

was Sharon Callister. If you do wanna support

1:11:24

her work, you can support Mission Australia, however

1:11:26

you choose to do so. Thank you so

1:11:28

much for being here. Thanks for being a

1:11:31

part of it. Thank you to Andy Ma

1:11:33

who did audio and video. Post Abby Benno,

1:11:35

my producer, Tohoda who made all the music,

1:11:37

Monica and Ben for keeping the lights on

1:11:39

at OGTV. And on Friday, we are back

1:11:41

here for NTN and NNN. For

1:11:44

the weekly news update, you can get tickets to

1:11:46

our live shows in the show notes. See

1:11:48

you around.