0:00

I. Think kids come out of the way

0:03

him almost ascii three call questions am

0:05

I loved and we and that through

0:07

the King Street connection and it's gotta

0:09

be more physical anything because I can't

0:11

prices me the words i love you

0:13

at five or three or fifteen because

0:15

it's too abstract to to at all,

0:17

right? So we have to show them

0:19

And so it's a Magadan ism but

0:21

fist bumps, winks, guitar, walk through a

0:23

door. Just. A lot because of

0:25

who they are, not because I did the right

0:27

thing of they put the she's away The second

0:29

question they come out of the way my Billie

0:32

Boschi is am I safe So initially we bundle

0:34

the map and we hold them back. Eventually it's

0:36

boundaries that keep them safe. So it's saying the

0:38

lobby to the moon and back and not put

0:40

up with that. Third thing, they want a nice

0:42

am I seen and heard and we answer that

0:44

through welcoming those feelings not all the time, but

0:46

thirty percent of the time and side. That's when

0:49

my child says i hate Spaghetti Bolland eyes and

0:51

instead of may just saying just have one bought

0:53

and you can have. Dessert. Or there

0:55

are starving children in Africa

0:57

Or just gladiator. I

1:00

say ah you not feeling and about dinner

1:03

there must be disappointing. On

1:05

have to do. I can get them and you

1:07

do not. I can not get them a new

1:09

dinner. It doesn't matter is actually less pressure them

1:11

What you think, kids laid less than what we

1:14

think if we could turn up and thirty percent

1:16

of the time mate that need to know that

1:18

they loved that they safe and that they seen

1:20

and heard. When. Ailing it. Did.

1:22

I thank you so much for being

1:25

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notified about new episodes, get access to

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This is better than yesterday. Make

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it better. Every episode is twenty

2:27

thirteen by learning from someone who's

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been sort first Imo. she gives

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birth a survey Here I am

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a podcast. I'm a best selling

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an award winning documentary film by

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cargo bikes I'm always guaranteed a

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I'm very grateful that I am in

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Yes tickets have come see the gates were

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melvin at the Melbourne is Comedy festival with

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and Cnn and it in our news Sharia

3:23

had such a great run last year we

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got a tv pilot commission of it. Were

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coming back for second season. Links to the

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gig are in the show Notes: very well

3:31

known a ten choice ten charged out on

3:34

the twenty at the mosque getting their quit

3:36

steaks their special guests a locking themselves in

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know to shows i ever the same as

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a heap of fonts and if the news

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Is absolutely the news shards to you thoughts

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And he had an added and at the

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moment in Central Comedy Festival or in Mental

3:51

Health and is a National Committee first or

3:53

were at the Greeks and Romans dow straight

3:56

and are actually spending my fiftieth birthday on

3:58

stage. Who does intuit. The man

4:00

who was once marginally employed and

4:03

also unemployed. I'm always thrilled when

4:05

I get the both the prison

4:07

of working on the day my

4:10

birthday sorry Jim Muir. To

4:12

me was on the show to Die. With. A

4:14

background in social work and

4:16

Greece and bereavement counseling, Jen

4:18

has found a brilliant focus

4:20

with the concepts around connected

4:22

parenting which is conveniently also.

4:24

The Instagram handle which operates

4:26

from ten has brand you

4:29

book. It's called Little People

4:31

Big Feelings. It's an insight

4:33

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4:39

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4:41

kids your age. Sleepiness as

4:43

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4:47

that this powerhouse mom of

4:49

four boys uses every day

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importance of building strong relationships

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5:10

compassion. Around the I

5:12

missed the mistakes you make yourself of at

5:14

a very vital discussion I vital discussion about

5:16

choosing the right calf. your family. Them.

5:19

Get around the book is called little People

5:22

Big feelings out. Let her know that you

5:24

heard a here on Instagram who fought a

5:26

post with that was a little bit service

5:28

shy whack according to their until I saw.

5:30

This is a magnificent chips. A

5:35

bloody here because he is a. It

5:37

is a particular. Ah

5:39

topic of interest of met some may and

5:41

that I'm I'm one of four boys are

5:44

went to an all boys school I'm you

5:46

know I am of the cohort of Papal

5:48

legate talked about when. Problems.

5:50

With masculinity and views of women in

5:53

at community are brought up and you

5:55

know when I see. Recently.

5:57

In Sydney they were blacks protesting outside like

6:00

school. I am day like I get away

6:02

as easy as. It

6:04

I've absolutely no all that world

6:06

who I understand, how. Pry.

6:09

Understandable. So as well what was watch me to

6:11

go out into the world and and and suddenly

6:13

got er hang on it's not what I got

6:15

told it was was it run mad at me

6:17

when I'm speaking to them in the why that

6:20

I've been speaking of the out women and two

6:22

women last have many towards water bottle earnings and

6:24

when I look at. University.

6:26

Entrances of boys, two girls and

6:28

I'll look at you know what

6:31

high school results are for spells

6:33

and then all the communication about

6:35

you know, teenage boys, bad. Everything.

6:37

You do or say is he wrong.

6:41

When seal raising sons.

6:43

Analyzing something's gotta go into out

6:45

nobody wants and it's It's hard

6:47

to talk about lives telling us

6:49

trump a one night sky for

6:51

a setting. The megadeth that the

6:53

other day I'm on his Us

6:55

as it hit me like a

6:57

ton of bricks. Hours at the

6:59

big Pot down the road, right

7:01

the really big one and. Two

7:04

passes on Saturday was maybe a hundred and

7:06

fifty kids. this say that was half of

7:08

them voice maybe eighty boys. They're all between

7:10

the ages of to and five yeah I

7:13

have yet to be. Other I bought was

7:15

like Syria as hot sauce sale and I

7:17

look at these i'd young boys and I

7:19

think. Looking.

7:21

At this disease. He. Twenty years

7:23

from now. What?

7:26

Does that say about how many of these little

7:28

boys are gonna punch this? Boyfriend

7:30

or girlfriend and ahead yes as the best

7:32

opportunity. Best thing that can do to get

7:34

out of express that I had a hair

7:36

like them. literally someone in the find my

7:38

silly as I don't know what else to

7:40

do cs. Family parents

7:42

sit around going. Out why from

7:45

of what about? See that nobody? Nobody wants Nobody

7:47

wants that night heron on earth. Want Sats

7:49

and it's such a complicated

7:51

issue and I deeply sale

7:53

at as the mom of

7:55

four boys as well and

7:57

I so wanted to rise

7:59

boy. That can navigate this world.

8:01

It's not just them punching someone bet

8:03

it's the risk to themselves. as I

8:06

say. So I quit Thera. Theres so

8:08

much more at risk of self as

8:10

harming themselves of one out him prison

8:12

as lucky say the results out sort

8:15

of less good. And it's I see.

8:17

Ah, you know the book. It's not

8:19

about boys, actually it's about all kids.

8:22

This bet my biggest seeing if I

8:24

can tell you how I got into

8:26

it. There. So I'm I'm

8:28

I'm a social worker, I'm the daughter

8:31

of a family therapist, narrative therapist or

8:33

my mom might in mental health field

8:35

so I grew up with on I'd

8:37

go to the the Chats a community

8:39

center and I'd hang out with a

8:41

little oh gods with Schizophrenia I'd listen

8:43

to marriage counseling happening in my hi

8:46

mom i'm at sometimes some. Immersed.

8:49

In this world that I'm still in

8:51

rights And then I got pregnant with

8:53

my says baby and I was really

8:55

well raids really like I waiting dine

8:58

i'm in a bay and amazing mum

9:00

like watch me when the Olympics some

9:02

bombing right. And

9:05

it all went really well. until around the time

9:07

I had a second baby who had race lox.

9:09

My old a child said seats he started. Cheating.

9:12

By. Seems to be as he

9:14

beat my friend on the stomach.

9:16

Lance are pushing ah melting down

9:18

and I suddenly. Wince. Holy

9:20

seats. Had to do

9:22

and eat. And then I sort

9:25

of reflected in thought. What if I'm kind

9:27

of. it's kind of well set up as

9:29

he could possibly base of these. Yes. And

9:31

I find myself knowing the parent I wanna

9:33

be in the moment and not be. how

9:35

to find that light reverting. To exactly

9:38

how I was raised

9:40

or really. Just being less amazingly

9:42

resilient and my two year old sin.

9:44

Nobody gets healthy for free and so

9:46

I kind of impact on a mission

9:48

to kind of guard myself. ah, develop

9:50

myself. I did circle of Security parenting

9:53

I just did sunni into kids are

9:55

kept learning really for myself and it's

9:57

kind of now turned. Into. So

9:59

much more. Him and for others thought I

10:01

have such compassion for the modern parents to

10:03

ease. You know, I think it's way harder

10:05

to be a parent now than it's ever

10:07

been because we know him. all the information

10:09

overload issues have. We know, you know this

10:12

and Misma he came from. Send them to

10:14

the room and you should welcome in their

10:16

fields. We know all that we don't need

10:18

to know more and yet we're trying to

10:20

do it differently to the way we were

10:22

raised. I'm I'm from a loving household but

10:24

he cited the wrong thing as a kid.

10:26

I got smacked and I got sent to

10:28

my room. And

10:31

say then I have my two year old and

10:33

he threw in the wrong thing and I'm thinking

10:35

what I don't want to smack auto know what

10:37

to do with it was not model some atheists

10:39

and them. What we don't realize is that in

10:42

mind that we see our top with our minds

10:44

not our eyes so I'm not saying that saddam

10:46

fun of awesome what they need from us in

10:48

the moment we are reverted back to Athena all

10:51

kinds of shit and essentially how are parents felt

10:53

about feelings is one of the be A since

10:55

impacting how we got with feelings know it's it's

10:57

in how we can't but how we lived love

10:59

with grace. And ninety percent of how

11:02

you feel about feelings get set up

11:04

in the face. Eleven months of the

11:06

last breath, right? Months

11:09

you've led to raid which emotions

11:11

use. Always a baby make your

11:13

parents feel more happy, more engaged

11:15

with you and will frighten. was

11:17

scared, more dismissive you've learnt. We

11:20

do this. We don't do that.

11:22

And then imagine if you're a male baby. And.

11:26

Bought like little boys should be tough and I shouldn't

11:28

cry and. So we

11:30

can do a little bit better every

11:32

generation than the one before. I

11:34

think that's a really good thing is

11:36

it's hard to talk about him of

11:38

having conversations is fine with an ex

11:40

about. How. I got

11:42

whacked as a kid and.

11:45

Look at the time. I

11:48

don't watch sire but that was a mrs that

11:50

got through like it's a mess is a big

11:52

gets her it really helped me. Guys are hang

11:54

on I really can't keep. topping

11:57

on my that yes or color pull my shit

11:59

together There may have been another effective

12:01

way to get that message through. It may have

12:03

taken more time than the less than

12:05

10 seconds it took for the formaster to hit

12:07

me with the big thing. But

12:10

I figured it out pretty quick. You

12:12

did. Actually, can I tell you

12:14

a story? Yeah, please. Is that okay?

12:17

So I worked with a dad once and something

12:19

he said just has really, I think

12:22

it nails this. So this

12:24

was a dad where he'd been

12:26

pushed reluctantly into a parenting course with me

12:28

but his partner, and he was from a

12:30

family of origin where culturally

12:32

he wasn't allowed to show emotion. And not

12:34

only did boys don't cry, but even if

12:36

he got a bit too joyful or exuberant,

12:38

he was told to settle down, right? Which

12:41

is really common for me. And

12:43

here's this dad raising three girls doing an incredible job.

12:45

And one day we sort of wound up catching up

12:47

and he said, Jen, you know what? I want to

12:50

ask you a question. And he said, because I get

12:52

it, I'm doing the stuff. I'm sitting

12:54

there and I'm saying, oh, you know, I can see

12:56

you're having some big feelings that I'm parenting in this

12:58

way. And he goes, it works. Like, aside

13:01

from any evidence you've told me about why it's important,

13:03

I can see it works. I'm

13:05

doing it and it works. But I have this one lingering question. When

13:07

I was a kid, if I did the wrong

13:10

thing, my dad would have hit first, asked questions second

13:12

and I respected him. I knew,

13:15

like, don't do that again. And he goes, my kids tell me

13:17

I'm the worst dad ever and they keep me in the shins.

13:20

So do my kids respect me? What's his question? I

13:24

just love this question because I think many, many

13:26

modern parents would be thinking this. And

13:29

I said to him, look, the evidence is really

13:31

clear that what kids need from us, particularly in

13:33

the first five years of life, is just to

13:35

know that one primary caregiver can meet their needs,

13:37

not all the time, 30% of the

13:40

time is what we're shooting for. So we've got

13:42

one safe person that can do that for every

13:44

child. That that's the single biggest

13:46

indicator that turns out someone that can reach

13:49

their academic potential, their social potential, has lower incidence of mental

13:51

health. Like, it's a really good thing. So that says that.

13:53

But I said, that's not what gets me out of bed.

13:56

What gets me out of Bed is that. What the evidence says

13:58

is that if we do it in the. My your

14:00

dad did it for in the lights when

14:02

kids a sixteen and I must have taken

14:04

a think I don't want. My. Parents

14:06

tonight and my golf my full boys. When

14:08

they mock up and they will is that

14:10

they will think I know who to call.

14:13

Their rights. About Michael and his dad

14:15

said these he guys. He was silent. I thought,

14:17

i don't know whether that landed. I don't. Know whether are gone

14:19

through to him And then he said. Thinking about

14:21

it. Ah muck up

14:24

a lot when six and and I nibbled as

14:26

I was like caught. Let my dad nice and

14:28

then he pours any days and you know what?

14:30

I'm really good mates of my dad. I consider. I have

14:32

a really good relationship. But. If

14:35

I had an emotional problem now, he

14:37

would literally be the last person on

14:39

the planet said I would guide me.

14:41

And I went. That's. What gets

14:43

man of it right? That's that's what motivates

14:45

me when I doubt it. When I worry

14:47

that maybe these kids are out of control,

14:49

I think. The. Relationship above all

14:52

else. This might be the first time

14:54

someone has heard would remain. You. Don't

14:56

welcome. Assessed occurs

14:58

snow Iraq arable of the consequences.

15:01

I series home. efficient. Yes, yes,

15:03

whatever is going on stops said

15:05

something else begins. Whatever that is

15:07

could yeah I asked. yeah but

15:09

you don't sitting there going say

15:11

might have with has it consists

15:13

when that call is going on

15:15

and is as is Babby Testing.

15:18

Not it's it's feeling where the

15:20

ceiling, where the edges of the

15:22

boxing ring out every how far

15:24

you will descend pushing the. I

15:26

messed that up yet yes it to stuff to

15:28

do this pocus guess that arriving this or this

15:30

groceries to be done as are going to do

15:33

the pick up a good as like of got

15:35

a zoom cool and six minutes. I cannot sit

15:37

and watch these this fast as why that you

15:39

could do with something like that. And.

15:42

Such a good question and truth be told

15:44

site at can I do an example sites

15:46

to say one of my kids hits the

15:48

other one A K C B Triggering is

15:51

apparently a children hits and heads the other

15:53

one. They're crying and as a parent it's

15:55

a horrible feeling eating all my gosh, you're

15:57

headed for prison. and seen i this is

15:59

I'm stuffing it all up. So

16:01

just say I do what we all want to do, which is fly

16:04

across the room and say something like, we do not hit this family,

16:06

go to your room. Like I can't even look

16:08

at you, go to your room. Yeah, right. Now, first

16:10

of all, I've done that, okay? Second of all,

16:12

we all do that, anyone that says a dozen

16:15

is lying. But what we know from the evidence

16:17

is, my child might go to their room. They

16:19

may even come back out 20 minutes later and

16:21

say they're sorry. But what we know is that

16:23

what I haven't done, I haven't

16:25

taught them in that moment how to identify the

16:27

emotion that led to the hit. No child chooses

16:30

to hit, no child chooses to be a bad

16:32

kid. They're hitting because

16:34

their emotions got the better of

16:36

them and they weren't able to regulate through that

16:38

moment because of the nature of development. And

16:41

what I haven't done because they're now in fight or

16:43

flight is have an opportunity to coach them to do it

16:45

differently next time. So I can get a quicker

16:47

result for sure by sending them to their room or

16:49

the old school method of smacking, which I don't advocate

16:52

because, you know. Evidence.

16:54

You shouldn't hit kids. Because evidence. You

16:56

shouldn't hit kids. You shouldn't do it.

16:59

You're like, I know it feels like the thing you want

17:01

to do. But here are

17:03

all these scientific research results that

17:05

show. Not a great idea. Not a

17:07

great idea. Not a great idea. But, you

17:10

know, you're not wrong if you feel

17:12

that urge to. And, you know, we've all

17:14

been there. But, you

17:16

know, a lot of parents would still be using methods

17:18

like if you don't stop that, I'm going to throw

17:20

your favourite toy in the bin. Threat. Threat,

17:22

yeah. So we've got threats. We've got go

17:25

to your room. We've got I'm just ignoring

17:27

that and hoping it goes away. This

17:29

is the stick. So the old fashioned stick.

17:32

We sort of know it doesn't work. And

17:34

the carrot and stick. The carrot and stick. Yes,

17:36

correct. Thank you. So the carrot is begging,

17:39

bribing, reward charts. We're doing a lot of that as

17:41

modern parents too. And then we've got the

17:43

stick, which we sort of know we shouldn't do. I

17:46

want to sort of clarify. You can still use these

17:48

things in your parenting. So I would at least once

17:50

a week say to my kids, clean up your room

17:52

or there's no Nintendo. That Won't teach them long

17:54

term to be cooperative, to be great kids

17:57

that intuitively spot on it and participate in

17:59

the team. It will get around. Plant

18:01

said it it in answer to that question.

18:03

What's the quickest way to end result is probably

18:05

the stage This thought I want long term

18:07

results. I wonder a license it Levin said yes

18:09

I want the kids. It starts eating missive

18:11

when I don't have to since they ran over

18:14

twenty minutes here. Site is it's to see

18:16

sin if it's problematic. If it's a value you

18:18

want to work on, he gonna have to

18:20

do it the hard way as I would I

18:22

would do in that same scenario where my

18:24

taught his other tom. I fly

18:26

across the room on still sit in a battery

18:29

life. I'm a big fan of a big Sat

18:31

know and I would say something like collie hit

18:33

a will Not Let you He and I will

18:35

physically stop them right? That's important Has modern parents.

18:37

It's fine. motor smart. but then I don't realize

18:39

that they actually do have a physical role in

18:42

boundaries. Sitting with his safety risk of a are

18:44

physically going I'm actually going to hold your arms

18:46

it you can't. Stop so that kind much of

18:48

doesn't want to be hitting or hurting our throwing

18:50

some. Going to help them with that I'm

18:52

gonna try and then remain as neutral Us:

18:55

it's a lens and sites. Whoa guys it

18:57

looks like some something went on here and

18:59

if I can do that what I'm doing

19:01

is I'm allowing the space for like he

19:03

didn't hit for no reason. You're a good

19:05

kid and he you like high and I

19:08

wonder what led to the hits and then

19:10

I can find out more and then I've

19:12

got these in because I've signed by Tsmc

19:14

here and now instead of once have shutting

19:16

down by you the fireflies I haven't of

19:18

she's a guy. Okay so he sat on

19:20

you. Or look to eat funny and then you

19:23

knocked out a he's like as how and then

19:25

he got a nice big pot and any hit

19:27

that in guys her Well so what can we

19:29

do Different and now we have an opportunity to

19:32

learn And it is. The dead are way the

19:34

faster way to. Create that long the

19:36

ten change and even shorter, Ten changed.

19:38

When in the high spot will it get your

19:40

result? Is you. Got a podcast? guess coming

19:42

in. The

19:45

Sky delivering the saying gonna have

19:47

to grab the town don't. Deserve

19:51

a seat. Are you gonna meet your

19:53

dad's? something you guys zones do like.

19:55

Yes, there's a feast cause okay, the

19:57

sonics boiling over stars above in Iran.

20:00

So what parents need to know is that we're shooting to do this

20:02

30% of the time Wow And

20:05

when you muck it up and when you say go to your

20:07

room because it's safe for your child to be in their room

20:09

away from you then with you at that moment that We've

20:11

got the opportunity to repair. I got more

20:14

than I got less than 50 but more than

20:16

30 and I still finished high school So that's

20:18

a lower Bar that I thought

20:20

it had to be so that's good What about

20:22

in that moment like when you when

20:24

your window of tolerance is is

20:27

low He's tiny is a gap this big

20:29

you're already up against it You've been getting

20:31

kicked in a spleen by three or more

20:33

might you know? Yeah, you're cranky at each

20:35

other and behind me You know there's not

20:37

enough work hours coming in your fucking mortgages

20:39

going here your jobs going there You

20:42

know your triggers are as hairy as they're

20:44

gonna get and then when one clocks the

20:47

other How do

20:49

you regulate in those moments like

20:51

it's freaking hard? Yeah, especially when

20:53

you're literally spinning plates and juggling

20:55

chainsaws. Yes. Yes What do you

20:58

do so what I do is I

21:00

learned to spot the feelings of Disregulation building

21:02

in my body in the moment now that

21:04

is hard But what you'll notice is that

21:06

when your three-year-old throws that meltdown in the

21:08

kitchen or your kids are being super noisy

21:10

in the car There

21:12

are some warning signs that you're going into

21:14

fight-or-flight because when we lose it We've

21:17

lost it not because we're bad people. Yeah, we've

21:19

lost it because our brain has gone into fight-or-flight

21:21

because Actually, the reality

21:24

is our child is often showing an emotional triggering a feeling

21:26

in us that in our family of origin That wouldn't

21:28

have been safe for us to do So if I got

21:30

sent to my room for crying and my child is in

21:33

front of me crying and I've tried to fix it Or

21:35

solve it. I've tried that kind of oh, you're having a

21:37

bad day and they're still not stopping Bit

21:40

by bit my heart rate is going to

21:42

increase my breath is gonna get shorter My

21:44

shoulders are gonna tense My body is preparing

21:47

the way it would prepare for an actual

21:49

jungle animal to enter my kitchen Because that

21:52

was scary for me as a child. Yeah,

21:54

it's it Threatened my relationship

21:56

with my primary caregiver. I've learned at

21:58

a level. This

22:00

isn't safe. But I can know at a cognitive

22:03

level, it's just a three year old having a

22:05

meltdown. But I mean, I'm describing

22:07

what you know, like does that... I know,

22:10

you actually like you've got too many

22:12

tabs open on your browser and

22:14

it's all peeking out and then

22:17

reboot and then you're just

22:19

running off straight source code. So connect

22:21

the parenting app and the breathing and

22:23

the mindfulness app, all those have crashed.

22:25

Yes, creativity's gone. All you've got is

22:28

the first 10 lines of code, which

22:30

are open eyes, breathe, avoid snakes and

22:32

you know, when this happens, bad. And

22:34

so then you snap, you yell, you

22:36

find yourself in that place of the

22:38

beast from the depths of

22:40

the swamp comes out and says, go to your

22:43

room or whatever you say, which is probably what

22:45

someone said to you at some point or maybe

22:47

not. For some parents, if

22:49

they were raised in a way that felt unsafe for

22:52

them or they were, you know, if they were hit

22:54

as a kid, they're trying

22:56

so hard to avoid that that instead of

22:58

screaming, yelling, all of that, they

23:00

run. They go, okay, just have what you want. Now

23:03

that's just as scary for a child, right? Yeah. Right.

23:07

And it's actually quite dangerous. I've went

23:09

to Paul Dillon, this extraordinary drug and alcohol

23:12

educator. Yes, love Paul Dillon. Amazing guy. I went

23:14

to a fantastic seminar with him. I had him

23:16

on the show. Learning

23:19

about permissive

23:21

parenting. Yeah. And it's

23:24

right because parents are trying to

23:26

overcome that family of origin

23:28

that they know at a cognitive

23:30

level, well, that didn't feel good and it's,

23:32

you know, the evidence is clear that's not

23:34

so great. So then they think, well,

23:36

I'm not allowed to say no, because it's not

23:38

that parents don't know how to say no, they

23:41

say no to the biscuit and then the child

23:43

melts down so badly and it feels so terrible

23:45

for us. We either have to scream and yell

23:47

and lose it ourselves or we have to say,

23:49

okay, just find just one. No more.

23:54

And that is really hard. So you asked,

23:56

how do I do it? Well, first of

23:58

all, I don't do it perfectly

24:00

all the time. Okay. I snap

24:03

like every parent. I act braceless

24:06

and you know, I'm really

24:08

open about that. I think it's

24:10

really important. Anyone doing this parent education

24:13

stuff can admit that they're not perfect. Do your

24:15

older ones give you shit and go put this on your

24:17

Instagram mum. I'm filming you. I'm filming. I'm going to put

24:19

this on yours. You know, it's

24:21

so funny. I don't, my older one, I sometimes

24:24

call him my broken pancake. You know, the

24:26

first pancake. That's

24:31

a way to go. I'll explain

24:33

why. So, um, the other night, my

24:36

youngest child who can get quite, you

24:38

know, he's sent to earth to test

24:40

everything I teach, he

24:43

threw a fork at my 14 year old at

24:45

the table, right? Not a great behavior. Um, and

24:48

I flew across the table. I grabbed my seven

24:50

year old. I said, I'm not going to let

24:52

you throw forks, but I can see you're really

24:54

mad right now. So I said, I practiced, but

24:56

I preached. I'm doing it. Right. My 14 year

24:58

old said, are you joking?

25:01

When I was a kid, you would have made

25:03

me stand and think. And I went, yeah. And

25:05

I wouldn't recommend parents do that now. I'm so

25:07

sorry. I was learning because you know, we

25:10

learning as we go. And I didn't

25:12

know it all at the start. We don't know what we don't

25:14

get for knowing it. You look at the shame that

25:16

we might feel for when we make a mistake like

25:18

that. The what you felt in your body when your

25:20

elders talk to you, like, yeah, you

25:23

were able to come up with a good line at the time, but deep

25:25

inside is like, Oh, fuck me. Fuck

25:27

up. Brian, that one. I'm going to be fine. You're going to go

25:29

to a therapist when you're 20. So

25:33

I've learnt to get, I've

25:35

learnt to be much more kind to myself.

25:37

I speak to myself as a young mom,

25:39

much more harshly. I'd sit on the couch

25:41

every night and I fucked that up. I

25:45

yelled or I didn't get it right. Or I'm

25:47

not giving enough to my baby or I'm not,

25:49

you know, not nailing it for my toddler or

25:51

whatever. Right. I absolutely

25:53

would break myself. And then I've

25:55

done My own work and my own journey around

25:57

self compassion. And I love, Brett A Brown and I've.

26:00

Christen Press Nests and what I came

26:02

to realize not only to some the

26:04

evidence olive evidence but the evidence sides

26:06

that the way we talk to our

26:09

selves. He. Is is threatening

26:11

in terms of putting us in the thought

26:13

of flights as the way if if you

26:15

walk into my living among us parent by

26:17

you must that up to thy Jane what

26:19

a liaison you know i'm a hot right

26:21

would go up and what happens is your

26:23

body experiences that as a threat and then

26:26

you are less likely to guy bit of

26:28

the atop in excess. That's what crises

26:30

So for your child you're trying to show

26:32

up and be more patient. The next day

26:34

he burrow itself thinking i'll make you better

26:36

parent and it doesn't say we've taxes are

26:38

linked to be kind of and I would

26:40

catch myself. Final: that was terrible and I

26:42

would Guys you know what? I'm a really

26:45

good mom. I try really hard and I'm

26:47

doing the best that I can and I'm

26:49

learning and I'm seem and and I'm modeling

26:51

being human and sorry I've actually just worth

26:53

that that be by be and that's what

26:55

I take parents Now is. Corner Wild and no

26:57

one has more than I'm doing it, but he

26:59

did else I can see really trying to sell

27:01

for you. I day sissies on a really good

27:03

job of those first couple breaths. Earth and Mix

27:05

for me. Do it. You might be able to

27:07

get a few more is that outfits and sell

27:10

through. Spurts. The

27:12

best I'm doing that so I will. I

27:14

will sometimes like I'm in the car and

27:16

the volume of all the kids and I

27:18

want to scream set up and I will

27:20

just take a deep breath and our guides.

27:22

This is really hard right now a lot

27:24

of people would feel over stimulated skinner and

27:26

then I say guys gonna need it down

27:28

instead of. The Morning In a

27:30

way that may isn't kinds and and not

27:33

perfectly and I don't Always I let that.

27:35

What I'm trying to do is be nicer

27:37

to myself and find the wins like x

27:39

If you can find a thirty percent Cs

27:41

and yeah, I know you thirty percent sounds

27:44

like it's actually a really good amount. Is

27:46

a big number actually. When you think

27:48

about how busy here is just to

27:50

keep people alive, he I'm not stepping

27:53

themselves with various household objects. Yeah, no

27:55

longer you can't house once I start

27:57

moving independently like could try to tread

27:59

everything. But then we couldn't live here.

28:02

Yes, Exactly. If anyone with a

28:04

three year old night thinking of emotions

28:06

and the minute they sulfate hit the

28:08

ground all the way through and you

28:10

can be considered in about thirty percent

28:12

of those before you start to really

28:14

time lose it yourself. Yeah, sorry, it's

28:16

I try to sometimes Guy: Yeah, I'm

28:19

just. On. Not attending to every

28:21

single feelings and in fact that can

28:23

good thing to keep. Even for babies

28:25

that might be filling station our instincts

28:27

can be to step in and fix

28:29

that. Saw that type of feeling alas

28:31

uncomfortable has faded to the terrorists or

28:33

toy that if we. Moved.

28:36

That soy to the baby without just

28:38

allowing a little bit of frustration with

28:40

stripping them of the achievement when I

28:42

finally right sets with two peas in

28:44

a practicing the ceiling of frustration. And

28:46

that's. It's. A little bit along. Alonso and

28:49

that's and that's a greater. We.

28:51

Make a game out of a

28:53

now with both dressed in the

28:55

morning bar because of the wolfie

28:58

sort of where he picks out

29:00

his clothes and then i common

29:02

type. His I have a

29:04

particular set of skills like ages them.

29:06

A lot of the by com entice

29:08

him getting dressed in the morning like

29:10

com a Rice Coyer, Glock on the

29:12

Rise, Court, Albion, Punk, and Bridgeman. This is

29:14

a tease. I'm going to use his. Hair. And this is

29:17

I gentlemen. Welcome to Wolfgang This morning Without

29:19

a doubt is building a lot of the

29:21

whatever I put left with little except for

29:24

the real unless such as he added he's

29:26

like full action stations or say the front

29:28

of America physically it is equated. What is

29:30

it.decides. To Two thumbs up Another

29:32

and among as I that is. It's nice

29:35

line but he gets it done yet but

29:37

nobody wants to. The counters themselves know no

29:39

one would dream. Of having a

29:41

child that doesn't know how to dress themselves. Had

29:43

a cigarette which part of which is a front

29:45

of me undies which is the back of the

29:47

undies which is the front of a t shirt

29:50

which the back of a t shirts. So why

29:52

do we see it so differently when it's like.

29:55

understanding. that you dealing with frustration is

29:57

a part of growing up and me being

29:59

with you frustrated is a part of that. I'm

30:01

going to have to be with you being pissed off

30:03

because you're going to need to learn how to get

30:05

out of being pissed off or being frustrated or being

30:08

angry or being sad. Without telling you don't do

30:10

it. Without looking for it for you.

30:12

What's the line there of you

30:15

know when do you as you mentioned when do you move the toy

30:17

because we want to have independent kids. When do

30:19

you move the toy? You know

30:21

at what point is it 30% is that a magic number?

30:24

Like at what point do you step in? One

30:26

of the things we can learn to do is comment

30:28

and this is my biggest tip is commentate out loud

30:30

about what we see and the French

30:33

have a term they call it the pause

30:37

which actually means to pause and

30:39

they apply it to their parenting in general so from

30:42

the minute that newborn cries it's not that they don't

30:44

attend to the baby they attend to the baby but

30:46

they pause. Is that baby wanting just

30:48

to be resettled or does it want to get

30:50

picked out? And with our

30:52

toddler reaching for the toy if we can

30:54

just pause and be mindful what

30:56

we're doing is acknowledging that those our feelings

30:59

about feelings are metafeeling how we feel about

31:01

emotions which was set in the first five

31:03

years of life are playing a role even

31:05

in that moment so our

31:08

instinct to stop that uncomfortable emotion

31:10

is playing a role in that

31:12

benign seeming moment right so if

31:14

we can just lapours and go

31:16

oh you're trying to reach the toy and

31:19

then we've got an opportunity to see if our child wants

31:21

our help or not sometimes our child's

31:23

not cueing us in so that our kids

31:25

tell us what they need so

31:27

if we can look at the child that baby

31:29

is either going help me and

31:32

they cry and they look at us and they communicate

31:34

or they're busy like reaching and we can

31:36

just sit there and be aware

31:39

and go tough you've

31:41

almost got it yeah and then if they

31:44

do reach it we're like you did it and we

31:46

get to celebrate in that joy with them or they

31:48

look at us for help and we go you want

31:50

my help that's going to help with language and all

31:52

kinds of things but it actually makes them feel seen

31:54

yeah and I think we can be doing that we

31:57

can be talking out loud From birth. So

31:59

we're changing your babies. Happy and I like it may

32:01

be that my inner beast maintains I get it's

32:03

I'm and we can be saying yell at a

32:05

speed now that's going to com our. Instincts

32:07

to clinic I stayed shallots.

32:09

Far. Also, I believe ninety percent of communications

32:12

on Bebo say our babies can take him

32:14

that were kind of getting pumped with up

32:16

from birth and if we can disallow that

32:18

a little bit better way communicating a message

32:20

of like I can have you come to

32:22

me when you're happy, on when you're frustrated

32:24

and when you said some of the times

32:26

I don't have to make sites that all

32:28

of the time I've got four kids and

32:31

on human spot some of the time I'm

32:33

just gonna allow it and Tolkien. Just

32:36

a moment away from June to say that

32:39

if is sobering see some values, please do

32:41

share it with friend shirt with a partner

32:43

shirt with a teacher apparent shirt with a

32:45

kid Whoever it's a zero costs way to

32:47

support these shows if you want to have

32:49

a non cost way to. Support the show

32:51

Get Sick as. The gigs in Melbourne

32:54

we're the Mobilization Comedy Festival. A

32:56

promise Your loss to your our

32:58

schools asks. That's a

33:00

fact. Linked to the tickets is in the show

33:02

Notes: Were back here with Jim Muir and system

33:05

are. You

33:10

love animals, gaming, movies, and discovering

33:12

how your favorite pop culture affects

33:14

everything you do. Then join us

33:16

on Crunch Hero Presents The Enemy

33:18

Effect. On

33:21

Nick Friedman I'm widowed marine. And

33:23

I'm we're President. Every

33:25

week you can listen and while we break

33:27

down the latest pop culture news and this

33:29

on what new releases we can't get enough.

33:31

Whether you love movies when I tell

33:34

you fall about the fulfil forte really

33:36

for Tron Legacy that house. Or

33:39

more would or music

33:41

the music images. So

33:44

yes, absolutely I'm in

33:46

chrome or am I

33:48

going under? This mask is

33:50

another man. assistance you can

33:52

discover your new favorite right here

33:54

on the enemy affects listen every

33:57

friday were really supportive and watch

33:59

video episodes on Crunchyroll or on

34:01

the Crunchyroll YouTube channel. You

34:13

mentioned earlier when you were a young mum and you're sitting on

34:15

the couch, nature's amazing. We

34:18

get this really brilliant ticking

34:20

clock going, hey, you're

34:22

Mr. Period. It's

34:27

what's going to happen in about eight and a

34:30

bit months from now. Oh,

34:32

and so you have this wonderful ramping up

34:34

where there's like, I don't care how

34:36

we feel about it. It's

34:38

going to happen. So we better get ready. And

34:40

then you have this learning curve where initially they're

34:42

kind of squidgy and you get

34:44

the same two hours on repeat for about

34:46

three months, like eight weeks, 10 weeks, which

34:49

is delightful. And then you kind of go

34:51

from there. And then

34:53

there's what happened to me, which

34:55

is I'm 41. No

34:59

parenting experience with an 11 year old.

35:02

Step parenting. It's the parenting that no one

35:04

ever talks about. It's the fatherhood

35:06

that no one ever talks about. And

35:09

I kind of struggle with that because when

35:11

I've met G, I was like, I need

35:13

to get my shit together because I can,

35:16

I understand what a close

35:19

by kind of proximal male

35:22

person in someone's life. Like everyone knows

35:24

how badly it could go. That mum's

35:26

stepdad doesn't matter, but a step parent

35:28

can really mess things up. And

35:31

I did my best. I made heaps of mistakes. Probably

35:34

more than I'd like to. I don't think I got to 30%. I

35:36

wish I did. But

35:39

it's a very, very difficult thing. I would make, you

35:41

know, I would make the joke. I've got an 11

35:43

year old kid with maybe about a month of parenting

35:45

experience. I would have done anything. I still like one

35:47

day to the next. I was like, I'll do anything

35:49

for you. Every dollar I earn is

35:51

now to make your life be everything you want it to

35:53

be. Which is amazing for a selfish person like me. You

35:57

know, as you know, I'd since. I

36:00

found out it has to be explained to me because I'd fallen in love with

36:02

both of them. It's different, obviously

36:04

very different. But the love

36:06

that I had and the transformation that I'd

36:08

seen in mates who had been loose and

36:11

then had a kid and then like, how did

36:13

you suddenly become a CEO of a company? Have

36:17

you ever seen Looking for Alabrandi, the movie? Oh

36:20

yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's this

36:22

scene where Anthony LaPaglia says to her towards the

36:24

end, like he's a bit reluctant, he finds out

36:26

he's a dad and he didn't know. So he

36:28

didn't even know she existed until she was

36:30

17. And

36:32

she's sort of, you know,

36:34

ripping into him and he says, give me a break.

36:37

I feel like I've picked up a book and I'm

36:39

halfway through it and I don't know what happened in

36:41

the first chapters of you

36:44

and I'm sort of trying to parent you. And I'm like, you're gonna

36:46

have to be a bit gentle with me. Yeah, anyway, just remind

36:48

me of that. It was really hard because as an 11

36:50

year old, 12

36:52

year old, like as the first couple of years, you're

36:56

experimenting. Yeah. You're

36:58

experimenting with talent. It's also processing change and

37:00

kids process any change, like you coming

37:03

into her mom's world is a massive

37:05

change. And kids process

37:07

change. They actually kind of

37:09

grieve. They can

37:11

love you or love the new sibling or

37:14

love the new school, but you know, any

37:16

change and grieve the world they knew

37:18

that was safe. Yeah. So

37:20

they're processing that. And when kids are

37:22

processing any change, they will test boundaries,

37:24

they will be more emotional and they

37:26

will seek more connection from their primary

37:28

caregivers. So all of those things will

37:30

ramp. Yeah. And so it's a bit of a

37:33

perfect storm. It was very hard and I

37:35

didn't have any of the things

37:37

that we've just been talking about because this

37:39

is the person practicing at

37:41

being an adult by then, all right. So

37:44

challenging me as an adult and I respond as

37:46

an adult. And then now I've got an 11

37:48

year old girl crying. Yeah. Like, oh,

37:50

fuck. Yeah. Because

37:53

development is like, it's painstakingly

37:56

slow. So do you know, I

37:58

mean, I'm sure you know it, but. To know that we

38:00

sort of expect by three, by 11, by

38:03

15, these humans that can walk and talk

38:06

and communicate and maybe negotiate their way

38:08

out of a hostage situation, we think,

38:11

well, they can emotionally regulate too. But

38:13

their frontal lobe, that part of the brain that does all

38:15

that is not fully formed until 25 to 27. So

38:20

it's such a long way off. And

38:22

we demand too much of kids emotionally

38:24

and not enough of them physically is what I sort

38:26

of find. We help

38:30

seeking behaviours, both my parents

38:32

were medical doctors, so

38:35

help seeking behaviour was the part that was kind of instilling into

38:37

us as kids. And

38:39

actually Audrey went and found

38:41

this. There's

38:43

a children's hospital near here and they

38:45

have a unit, a psychological

38:48

unit. And

38:51

we went and sat down with a

38:53

lovely site, Davey was her name, and

38:57

her job was to help parents

38:59

negotiate the blending of

39:02

families. How brilliant. And

39:05

I love that I live in a country with

39:07

a healthcare system that recognises if we can intervene

39:09

at this point, we're going to save everyone a

39:11

lot of problems and we're probably going to get

39:13

way better outcomes out of everyone involved here. And

39:16

so while this is going to cost us,

39:18

have as much money, a dollar an hour

39:20

for this particular healthcare professional to talk to

39:23

these people, guess how many tax

39:25

dollars are going to come back in

39:27

10 years from now? Early intervention. Yeah.

39:29

And it was really important. Like

39:31

Audrey knew all this stuff, right? But

39:34

I had no clue at all.

39:37

And it was really, really powerful. And

39:40

I can't

39:42

undo the mistakes

39:44

that I made. I can only try my

39:46

best to make good. You know

39:49

what I mean? It's hard. Yeah.

39:52

No parent can undo, like all parents make

39:54

mistakes. You were making

39:56

them with an 11 year old. Most of us are doing it on

39:58

a two or a three year old. You

40:00

can day that's the good news is.

40:03

You know is. That relationship it stronger

40:05

than what you think. It's really got

40:08

this incredible potential. Kids want to find

40:10

the business that see wanna love us

40:12

and your role as that dad that

40:15

came in at eleven like it's an

40:17

incredible Raul. It's a special role he

40:19

you know we know the kids attached

40:21

to one to two primary caregivers and

40:24

that's generally their parents, some mostly step

40:26

parents or other figures that one up

40:28

playing a really like some people are

40:31

single parents that raise a child with

40:33

their mom. or. Whoever? right?

40:35

So we vote with their so I'm

40:37

the It's ways to have have a

40:40

great family and you've got this incredible

40:42

role to be the secondary attachment Sega

40:44

right? And that's what most

40:46

set parents are. And ah, it's

40:48

slightly different and it's got incredible

40:51

benefits to it as well. And

40:53

the biggest thing I think that.

40:56

You. Should hold on to is that he did the

40:58

work. That he all we

41:00

can do. This is riders vet

41:02

always been set us. Back.

41:04

Seat and I just think. There.

41:07

Is so many people in. Years gone

41:09

by that didn't change. At. All

41:11

they have a like my parents out work

41:13

with would say that their own parents never

41:16

ever said sorry for them her nephew of

41:18

aren't to visit. sorry to hear something. Or

41:20

other know that I'd more like as I

41:22

had access to medical journals. I guy right

41:24

psychologists psychiatrists hire a part of a like

41:27

all. The majority of parents I work with

41:29

would say. Market never apologize. Says

41:31

saying sorry to their kids is caught. Yeah,

41:33

it's actually a hard thing today and yet

41:35

parents are sort of the doing that. They're

41:37

saying i'm sorry I didn't eat, I. I'm.

41:40

Responsible for my feelings. That's not your fault.

41:42

Here and that's. Incredible.

41:44

I have weighed doing that. That's

41:46

amazing. This year it's or as

41:48

is something in there is general from

41:51

gonna do something with it but. it's

41:54

like a zoo i'm happy i'm

41:56

so happy that fatherhood and the

41:58

visual representation of

42:00

fatherhood at least off

42:03

television is a very,

42:06

very positive one. Dump fat dad is still

42:08

the guy in every commercial and it really

42:10

shits me. It really, really shits me that

42:12

the only dad... It's not the dads I'm

42:14

meeting. No, the only dad was, I forgot

42:16

the fucking band. I

42:18

eat terribly, I've got no chin. There's

42:21

no jawline and I don't know. And I

42:23

look at him like, there's no way that

42:25

that hot, beautiful kind of

42:27

milf would be married to him if

42:29

he's that, looks like that and keeps fucking up like

42:32

that. No, not going to happen. That's a very story.

42:34

I can tell you about them. The dads I'm

42:36

meeting, the guys like, I'm unfortunately

42:39

not a millennial. I

42:41

like to consider that I'm

42:44

borderline, but I'm meeting millennial

42:46

dads. They are hitting the

42:48

ground doing everything

42:51

apart from physically

42:53

breastfeeding. They are

42:55

absolutely just attending to these

42:57

babies in the most beautiful way from

42:59

the absolute get-go. They're doing it differently

43:02

and they're doing that. No one probably modeled

43:04

that for them. They might've had dads that loved

43:06

them, but they dad would have been more

43:08

of a breadwinner, not on the ground.

43:10

And so parents are navigating this new modern village

43:12

as a team. And I

43:14

have a lot of hope for that. I think that's

43:16

the way forward. Thankfully, we're all using

43:19

the same reference point of Bandit and

43:21

Chilli Gila. As

43:25

possibly the greatest modeling

43:27

of parenting that could exist. The

43:29

best. Yep. I

43:31

agree. So there's possibly, there's parents

43:33

who are listening that

43:35

might have grown kids. It might

43:38

be the first time all this blues

43:40

happen after their kids have finished,

43:42

have hit puberty. They've

43:44

kind of missed this wave of, this

43:47

is the way. Do you feel

43:49

that even though it's a

43:51

book aimed at, concepts

43:53

that are aimed at younger parents or parents

43:55

of younger kids, do you feel that these

43:57

concepts can work with older teenagers? they

44:00

can because I'm applying them

44:02

daily with a 14-year-old and

44:04

because actually when we talk about attachment we're

44:07

talking about human needs. So these are needs,

44:09

the reason I focus primarily on young children

44:12

is that they're the ones expressing it the

44:14

most, they're the parents that are seeking the

44:16

help the most and I really believe if

44:18

we get in early, so I'm

44:20

about early intervention. I believe if I

44:23

can help you now with your three-year-old

44:25

when your 15-year-old is doing what they

44:27

do, you're going to be like okay

44:29

this is hard but we've practiced this

44:32

and so that's why I do what I do right

44:34

now with this. But yes to

44:36

that parent that either has the 14-year-old it's

44:38

not too late and yes there's something in

44:40

it for you but more to that parent

44:43

because sometimes we can hear these ideas and

44:45

think I fucked it all up

44:47

and I wish I knew this before, I wish I

44:49

had read this book when I started or whatever and

44:52

I just want to say you know it's never too late

44:55

and the best way I can articulate that

44:57

is for any of us if we do

44:59

carry things from our childhood where we wish

45:01

we were heard more or we wish something

45:04

was different, if you got a phone call

45:06

from your parent even today and

45:08

your parent said hey you know I've been reflecting

45:10

on this or that and I want you to

45:12

know I sort of wish I'd done that differently

45:14

or I'm sorry about that and I really love

45:16

you and you know how

45:19

would you feel like you would so want

45:21

that right? I think we all want that as

45:23

adults. I think it is

45:25

never too late ever to

45:27

turn this stuff around or to start

45:29

listening to say hey you know I

45:31

hear you. I'm often working with parents

45:34

and their parents so they have their

45:36

a baby and then their parents are

45:39

wondering how to turn up for them and I

45:41

say support them like listen to them so if

45:43

they ring you and say gosh the

45:45

baby won't sleep instead of saying well you know what I

45:47

did for you just say that's what

45:49

we did for you that's literally what my mum did for me.

45:54

Imagine if that parent said oh that

45:57

sounds so tough can I bring you a coffee. And

46:00

that's what we do for a three year olds as

46:02

well. Iraq. That that's all we want And it's never

46:05

too late to say that, even if yeah, I'd

46:07

easily. Some. Kids

46:09

much visit. Bell Curve right.

46:12

And. Must the time my

46:14

succeed say you I thought is a

46:16

tough us year most the time the

46:18

mice the kids are mostly iti all

46:20

right yes and sometimes so trying to

46:23

different men aren't and that is somebody

46:25

for people to come and I have

46:27

I not. I'll is says hands yeah yeah

46:29

I center site look when it comes to

46:31

like titillated he spoke which is more aimed

46:33

at young children but one of the questions

46:35

are often get is what about my child

46:37

with autism or Etti at stay or significant

46:39

behavior problems and I say does this apply

46:41

and I'll be like will festival it's your

46:43

time has additional an Aids in any way

46:45

or their a struggles and to be san

46:47

of getting help so I'm always like puts

46:49

a hand up and say when or okay

46:51

if anything ever in your hands hills more

46:54

than what sells know or it's putting pressure

46:56

on the other siblings or you will. What of

46:58

us on like go to a day pace. Engage

47:00

a psychologist and guy A love I taste

47:02

for kids. I think they're. Joining items are

47:04

precise. Know therapists a hybrid ones help with

47:07

social skills. Emotional regulations are all of my

47:09

kids have seen and I take because I

47:11

wanted to help. I want to help sites

47:14

absolutely getting metics to help on board. You're

47:16

gonna need more started using you going and

47:18

eight attain so that's festival. I'm not saying

47:20

we can just manage this on our on

47:23

nor should we spat the parent of the

47:25

hot a tiled say need dismal because they're

47:27

struggling more than the kid with the the

47:30

pet parent would be easy child to regulate

47:32

their own of my since I my book

47:34

is about. Us. So even though it says

47:36

it's about little paper with big feelings, it's about

47:38

the paper. With these sites.

47:41

and actually it's about you having some stepping signs

47:43

and knowing what to say if he didn't have

47:45

a script so that growing up but also giving

47:47

you the tools in the front part of the

47:50

book is is a tool to look back at

47:52

your family of origin and evaluate why you struggle

47:54

what today different in the moment so said that

47:56

pair it with that hot a child and like

47:58

my fourth child has a center to like

48:01

I've had to use everything I know and

48:03

more to raise this child and

48:07

so I get that feeling of well that doesn't work

48:09

on my child and then then I come back to

48:11

this thing at the end of the day where I'm

48:13

like where do I start what do I do about

48:15

this because I'm always a new parent to the 14

48:17

year old when the new stage hits I'm always we're

48:19

always learning as parents and then I think what do

48:21

I do I need a parent educator and I think

48:23

oh my god I am one what do I do

48:25

what do I do and then I think start with

48:27

connection they need connection like

48:30

I believe it in my core we're not getting

48:32

anywhere with any other result we've seen it in

48:34

the justice system we've seen it everywhere if we

48:36

go for well you're a bad kid and we're

48:38

going to punish then that

48:40

kid's got nothing to fight for. What

48:43

does the connection look like in that situation?

48:45

You're a good kid and we're absolutely going to

48:47

set boundaries but at your core we believe in

48:49

you and we're going to have to

48:51

find ways to get through and you're going to

48:53

have to be creative and it's going to be

48:55

about joining that child where they're at what are

48:57

they into so if that kid

49:00

is into video gaming you might be playing some

49:02

video games and getting into that but you're going

49:04

to have to join them somewhere in their world

49:06

you're going to have to hold those boundaries but

49:08

in a way that is you know firm but

49:10

kind how can we have empathy for the

49:13

fact that it sucks that I'm saying no

49:15

to tiktok or whatever it is and I

49:17

would get it if you hated me and that

49:19

can be really hard to do and especially if

49:21

you're learning this for the first time if that

49:23

child didn't force you to push yourself as a

49:25

young person then you're doing it now at 12

49:28

or at 14 and that can be really hard

49:30

for parents of adolescents but I

49:32

really do believe I do believe we

49:34

have to start with that connection. You say

49:36

connection one all right so what

49:38

are like some other things

49:40

that we'll just remember these things

49:42

in the moment when it's all flying everywhere and

49:45

there's porridge flying across the room or whatever and

49:47

the dog's doing this and the freaking thing is

49:49

doing that and nothing's working in

49:51

the moment like what's just like two five

49:53

things like the handful of things you can

49:56

just like try to remember. I think kids

49:58

cut out of the womb almost asking for it. three

50:00

core questions. Am I loved? And we answer

50:02

that through connection and it's gotta be more

50:04

physical than you think. Cause I can't process

50:06

many of the words, I love you at

50:08

five or three or at 15. Cause

50:10

it's too abstract to adult, right? So

50:13

we have to show them. And so

50:15

it's a Maggie Denism, but fist bumps,

50:17

winks, your child walks through a

50:20

door just a lot because of who

50:22

they are, not because they did the right thing or they

50:24

put their shoes away. So that's one.

50:26

Am I loved? We show it physically

50:28

is the first thing and time, but it doesn't

50:30

have to be a lot of time, but really

50:32

those mini moments of connection is everything. The

50:35

second question they come out of the womb, I

50:37

believe asking is, am I safe? So initially we

50:39

bundle them up and we hold them, but eventually

50:41

it's boundaries that keep them safe. So it's saying,

50:43

I love you to the moon and back and

50:45

I'm not gonna put up with that. We've got

50:47

to get confident with setting and holding those boundaries.

50:50

But we've got to do that in a way that

50:52

also makes space for how they feel about that. And

50:54

that's what people didn't do so well in the past,

50:56

right? And so that's also going, and the third thing they want

50:58

to know is, am I seen and

51:00

heard? And we answer that through welcoming those feelings, not all the time,

51:03

but 30% of the time. And so

51:05

that's when my child says, I

51:07

hate spaghetti bolognese. And instead

51:09

of me just saying, just have one bite and

51:11

you can have dessert or there are starving children

51:13

in Africa or just

51:16

bloody eat it. I

51:18

say, you're not feeling it about dinner. That

51:21

must be disappointing. I don't have to do, I

51:24

can get them a new dinner. I can not get them

51:26

a new dinner. It doesn't matter. There's actually less pressure than

51:28

what you think. Kids need less

51:30

than what we think. If we could

51:32

turn up and 30% of the time meet

51:35

that need to know that they're loved, that they're safe

51:37

and that they're seen and heard, we're

51:39

nailing it. And actually there's

51:41

all that other information about Montessori education and

51:43

how we sleep them, how we feed them,

51:45

how we show them experiences and teach them

51:47

to be brave. It'll unfold.

51:49

Our kids actually know what they're doing

51:52

emotionally. It's kind of us just

51:54

being able to show up in those three core ways. And

51:56

I think it is as simple and as complicated as that.

51:58

And I love, and I say. Are they

52:00

seen and heard? Are they seen and heard? So

52:04

there's the physical activity of like being there

52:06

with them. Yep. There's

52:08

the, I guess, you know, the, are they safe? This is

52:10

like kind of trying to make them sure that can look

52:12

like boundaries. And then seen and

52:14

heard. You know, that's just singing narration

52:16

if you need to. I

52:19

can see you really angry. Put

52:23

it away, put it away. You're kicking me

52:25

in the shins right now. It

52:28

works. It works. I

52:31

sing a lot too. It snaps them out

52:33

of it. I sing the cleaning up songs. I get

52:35

my kids to clean up. My kids tell me

52:37

to stop singing though. Do you, does Wolf allow

52:40

your singing? He's

52:42

good with it. George is like, oh, yeah. Throw

52:47

another, another bluey

52:49

in there when

52:52

he's being a proper pork chop. And

52:55

he's like, it's

52:57

just like, whatever. I'm like, picky

52:59

upy. I say it

53:01

in Chile's voice and he's like, oh, and he's into it.

53:03

And away we're now we're picking everything up. And you're picking

53:05

your battles there. You got to do it. You

53:07

got it. You just got to say, is this the hill I want to die

53:09

on? Probably not. I've got

53:11

a lot of hills. I'm

53:14

holding, I'm holding a lot of hills. Like

53:16

I'm like a platoon commander in a bad

53:18

Vietnam movie. Hill 160. Call

53:21

an airstrike. Thank

53:23

you so much for taking the time to come

53:25

here. And thank you for being OK with the

53:28

chaotic morning that you somehow rolled into. I am

53:30

a mum of four boys and a giant enormous

53:33

dog. So it just felt like home.

53:36

Now, are you rolling the suburban side loader?

53:38

Are you rowing the carnival? Or

53:41

are you in like not a carnival? I

53:43

drive a VW multivan. Yeah.

53:45

Electric doors. I

53:47

love my car so much. I desperately want

53:50

a two tone one like the really beachy,

53:52

you know, like that. That's my goal. I'm

53:54

putting that on my vision board. We

53:56

had the we had the we had the Mr.

53:58

We had the Mr. Bichiel three. Hundred which was

54:01

the only one two three, four,

54:03

five six seven. Eight site

54:05

say the yeah could get at the time yes of

54:07

the only I'd say there are gonna michael in it

54:09

or not. cool. To

54:12

I wasn't of still mako seattle. Really cool. Like

54:14

I roll up next to the bus driver

54:16

at the lights and I'm like. It

54:18

it has your crowd today. Yeah. Yeah,

54:20

I like a whole. New cool. I feel cool as

54:22

high. As does a dog or not.

54:24

Sides of the Korea's that my great.

54:27

Surprise semi astounding products I've

54:29

driven. It's a kind of

54:31

dissent tested, but the Germans.

54:34

In just it's a cool car runs

54:37

yokels, not not. Everyone says the same

54:39

paypal, other moms alive or a poor

54:41

saying in that big boss the I

54:43

Love. That a magnolia. says.

54:45

A sinkhole. The Elk tests are you on A

54:47

one of my brothers of the automobile motor might

54:49

have industry and he told me all about the

54:52

yolk tests on. The. Misconception is

54:54

not what my brother said to me

54:56

but the misconception is like all if

54:58

I get an issue they always all

55:00

be safer or it's the Elk Test

55:02

is singing a massive they see they

55:04

down the road and. And

55:07

l Crysis let down in front of

55:09

you vs and will spawn to the

55:11

rapid steering because the center of gravity

55:13

is so high. the rollover particularly wants

55:15

to start putting shuttle ever the rosiere

55:17

particularly to jack up the suspension. the

55:19

as your chest rolling over for us

55:21

is a solid. My down

55:24

dirty ban here might. And

55:27

I'm driving a break ensemble about

55:29

the artist my A sauce help.

55:31

ah. Can pull off at the I'm at

55:33

the Keys and ride at the school and

55:35

I think get him with their bags on

55:37

and I can walk down the aisle. Take

55:40

a seat, And. Mean it's a

55:42

bath. And you can get advice fully as

55:44

well as tables. or I'll get us to

55:46

Islam I have you been used stretch limos?

55:48

what? Selling out of a silly for sustainable

55:51

down on that the proper rot like that

55:53

if you get the see black tint now

55:55

that's take that next. Twenty eight The man.

55:57

I want the t time frame and co.

56:00

with a

56:02

tinge. And I don't

56:04

know what sports they're playing at the moment, but once

56:06

you get the kind of awning, so that

56:08

I weep for

56:11

you if they get into cricket. No cricket allowed.

56:13

Basketball. Which is good, because they're in and out

56:15

of there in two hours. But cricket, one of

56:17

my close people, like, their kid's

56:19

freaking amazing at cricket. They spend 10

56:21

hours in a field on the other

56:23

side of the country. Like, I

56:26

got out of bed at 4. The first over

56:28

was at 7. I mean, here, it's 4pm.

56:30

I feel like I've got 50 overs. Yeah,

56:32

the only thing worse is probably rowing. That's

56:34

a long way away. I'm

56:37

rowing's good though. I had a good time. Thanks,

56:40

Hates, for coming around. Thank you for having me. Really appreciate

56:42

it. That was

56:44

Jen Muir. The book is called Little People, Big

56:46

Feelings. It's a cracking read. It's

56:49

fantastic to... A lot of parenting stuff that I come

56:51

in contact with is American-centric,

56:53

I guess, and culturally. There's

56:56

a few nuances from

56:58

the Australian perspective that I really enjoy from Jen,

57:00

and I am so happy that she's out there

57:02

doing the work that she's doing. Connected parenting is

57:04

the Instagram handle. Let her know that you heard

57:07

her here on the show,

57:09

either over there or if you go

57:11

to my Instagram, you'll find that there's a post with lots of

57:13

little bits from this show. Just whack a little comment

57:16

in there. I really like talking to Jen.

57:18

I like talking to her about how important

57:20

it is to build those relationships with your

57:22

kids, creating that nurturing

57:24

environment. It was good to hear

57:26

someone like that give permission for

57:29

self-compassion when you make mistakes. Because I

57:31

still make mistakes. One's 20, one's four

57:33

and a half. I still make mistakes.

57:36

Why am I not good at it yet? I don't know. You

57:38

get a new kid every day. That's why. I guess

57:42

the other thing talking to her about what's interesting

57:44

was all I know about discipline and

57:47

disciplining kids that

57:49

isn't what I used to know. I've learned in the last 10 years.

57:52

I've discussed effective discipline and

57:54

the strategies that we can use setting

57:57

boundaries, acknowledging emotions, teaching kids alternative

57:59

ways to handle their emotions, that was really,

58:01

really good. And I'm also

58:03

really gonna try and rating and commentating

58:05

my own parenting a bit more. It's

58:07

a really good trick. And I

58:10

know that when I do do it, it does help me

58:12

slow down and think a bit more about what I'm doing.

58:14

But talking about it just then really reminded me

58:16

of how useful it can be and I should make it more of

58:18

a habit. It is also

58:20

nice to know that it's never too late to try

58:22

and get better at being a parent or a

58:24

grandparent or an uncle or an aunt and building those

58:27

connections, even with kids who are teenagers. That was

58:29

nice. It was a good one. She's

58:31

good, right? Let us know what you thought. Jump

58:33

on the Instagram. You can also find the

58:36

link to the newsletter in our show notes.

58:38

We have a newsletter, I'd love it to

58:41

be a part of it. Thanks to everybody

58:43

who helped me make this show today. Andy

58:45

Ma on audio post-production, Mike Ward on video

58:47

post-production, Toe Hider who made some brilliant new

58:49

music. Thank you, Mike. So

58:52

awesome. Get around Toe Hider on Patreon. Abby

58:54

Benno, our producer at large, Ella

58:56

Bramea Jones on the tools while Abby's on Matt

58:58

Leave and Ben and Monica for keeping the wheels

59:00

turning here at AGTV. And thank you. Without

59:03

you, there's no show. That's it. Come

59:05

and see us in Melbourne. It'd be so lovely

59:07

to meet you. Come and be a part of

59:09

my birthday. It'll be awesome. I'll see you

59:11

Friday. Head

59:15

over to Hulu this March where our new shows

59:18

and movies will keep you streaming all month long.

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Catch the acclaimed movie, All of Us Strangers,

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starring Paul Muskell and Andrew Scott. To

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stream the new Hulu original limited series, We

59:28

Were the Lucky Ones with Joey King and

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Logan Lerman. And don't

59:32

forget about Grey's Anatomy. Every

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Grey's episode ever is now streaming on

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Hulu. So

59:39

what are you waiting for? Go

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stream something new on Hulu.