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then so I am so excited to try

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2:08

always nice to have that like nice fresh

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I'm Hannah Brown and welcome to Better Tomorrow.

2:30

My absolute favorite thing to

2:32

do is have a heart-to-heart talk with my

2:34

new friends and my best friends where

2:37

we sit down and talk about

2:39

all the things like relationships and

2:42

love, faith and self-care and of

2:44

course the little things as well

2:46

like the struggle to figure out

2:48

what to eat tonight. All in

2:50

all I really want to ask

2:52

how am I better today than

2:54

yesterday and bring artists entrepreneurs and

2:57

friends along on the journey. So

2:59

join me on the journey will

3:01

you? Hey Pookie. Hey

3:05

Pookie is looking at straight fire

3:08

today. Thank you I have all my

3:10

Valentine's Day red. Hey happy Valentine's Day. Happy

3:12

Valentine's Day. I love you. Love you back.

3:15

This episode is coming out on

3:17

Valentine's Day so uh all

3:20

we're talking all about love our relationship.

3:23

Hi guys thanks for

3:25

joining us today on Better Tomorrow.

3:27

I've got my my Pookie bear on

3:29

and you got your red shirt

3:32

on. I got my I love this red shirt

3:34

it's pretty cute right. Absolutely fire. I

3:38

even like I see I was like is it a little

3:40

too much I'm wearing a heart necklace but it's like no

3:42

for Valentine's Day. It looks great. I'm going all

3:44

out. Yep um but

3:48

yeah how are you? I'm

3:50

great. It's been

3:52

a minute since we uh we're

3:55

here last. I know. Like we had just

3:57

moved to Nashville. No. I mean

4:00

When we did our podcast? We did

4:02

a podcast after we got engaged. Oh,

4:05

that was the most recent. That was the most recent.

4:07

I don't know. My mind is going back to like

4:09

starting the banking job, getting to Nashville. So

4:11

much has changed. So much has changed. In a good way.

4:15

Yeah, in a really good way. I

4:18

feel like we are so

4:20

in so much of a better place

4:23

personally and as a couple, just like

4:26

in our relationship that we were the

4:28

last time that we were on

4:30

here together. I agree. And

4:32

it didn't happen by chance.

4:36

We're actually putting some work in. Yeah. So

4:38

we kind of wanted to talk about that today because you

4:41

know, we got engaged at the

4:43

end, like at kind of

4:45

at the end of last year and people

4:48

are always asking like, when's the

4:50

wedding? What are you doing?

4:52

And honestly, we aren't planning a wedding. We're

4:55

not. No. We

4:58

really are. I

5:00

feel like doing it the right way. We're

5:05

really focusing on getting ready for a

5:07

marriage and kind of doing

5:09

like supercharged pre-marital

5:11

counseling, like super, supercharged

5:14

and really just like working

5:17

on our relationship and how we

5:19

communicate with each other, how we

5:21

can really like be

5:24

a 1% couple. Which

5:29

is a big challenge. Yeah. Because

5:32

as we've learned, 80% of couples

5:34

are kind of doomed to fail and not

5:37

so much as like get divorced, but fail

5:39

in that they don't have what

5:42

we call a secure attachment relationship.

5:45

Yeah. No, we

5:47

started working with this therapist,

5:51

couple's therapist about

5:53

end of, where

5:56

did we start? December? Five

5:58

weeks ago. Five weeks ago. I'm.

6:02

And. See. It

6:04

has really like opened our eyes just like.

6:07

A So much when it comes to relationships and how

6:09

like. There's. A lot of

6:11

that. Yeah, it's. To. Put and

6:13

to be a to like be in

6:15

that twenty percent of couples actually had

6:17

a not dislike. What

6:19

to call? it? A. Where.

6:22

Are the ones that are like

6:24

stable? I think a lot of

6:26

hands like people think dislike having

6:28

a saber relationship is good. Like

6:30

having might actually like secure safe

6:32

relationship is really small amount of

6:35

couples and. It takes

6:37

a lot of. Work

6:39

in a growth mindset. Get there

6:42

and we just as likely than

6:44

taking so much knowledge in. And

6:46

really like now trying to like per actually behind

6:49

it so we kind of wanted to talk to.

6:51

You. Guys about all that we've learned

6:53

and we are by no means experts

6:56

in this like it's been five weeks,

6:58

but we play in. A

7:01

lot of hours and had a lot

7:03

of like a really awesome conversations and

7:05

have started putting an action steps and

7:07

I think we've already been able to

7:09

see like a big difference. They do

7:11

so like. In

7:14

five weeks we are. Feeling.

7:16

Like closer than ever, more

7:18

connected and really realizing how

7:21

similar we are. I think

7:23

for a while I thought we were so different.

7:25

And. I feel like maybe that manifested in

7:27

different ways. The really the like. I.

7:30

Said of our insecurity is

7:32

an relationship are. Really?

7:35

Really? Similar. When. It's been

7:37

quarter be able to realize how we can

7:40

show up better for each other. Ah,

7:42

I'm. So. Yeah I

7:44

feel like. Why

7:46

wanted to talk more about this openly

7:48

is because. And.

7:51

I'm interested to see what easily as well.

7:53

but like whenever you hear people doing like.

7:56

Therapy. just in general

7:58

like therapy for yourself It

8:03

seems like, oh, there must be something going on. But

8:06

when you hear people, like a couple isn't there,

8:08

if you're like, oh, they must be on the

8:10

brink of like, it's bad.

8:13

And I feel like one thing that I like really

8:17

feel strongly about

8:19

is really believing

8:21

that it should be a norm

8:25

that people start working on their relationship before

8:27

they have to actually save it. And

8:30

really starting to talk more about that

8:32

because it's

8:36

been interesting when I tell people, yeah, we

8:38

were in therapy for this many hours. People

8:40

are like, oh,

8:43

great. Something must be horribly

8:45

wrong. But like,

8:47

we're having these really long sessions and

8:49

then going to lunch

8:51

and dinner together and feeling like so

8:54

connected. So it's just really been so

8:58

life-giving for us. And I want people to talk about

9:00

that more because I feel like it's

9:02

getting better. I feel like people are realizing

9:04

how important learning how to

9:07

communicate is for and

9:09

understand ourselves, but also in relationship,

9:12

but more about just like how

9:16

important it is to be proactive in

9:18

your relationship. So, yeah. Yeah,

9:22

I think the stigma is slowly changing.

9:24

I think you hear, like you said,

9:26

couples therapy and couples that

9:28

are in couples therapy, you think there must

9:30

be something totally wrong, but it can be

9:32

preventative. It's like we're doing

9:34

things now before marriage

9:38

so that we don't have these kinds of

9:40

issues when we're married.

9:42

And it's locked in, we're married.

9:44

Yeah. Like we have to make it work. So

9:46

why not be proactive and start

9:48

getting to the root of some of our challenges,

9:52

both individually and as a couple, so

9:55

that we can grow into marriage.

9:57

Yeah. Like don't you feel like. People

10:00

when they they get engagement I think happy

10:02

I always on time over for dinner city

10:04

to get into a marriage. Always feel like

10:07

the first year marriage is so hard. And

10:09

you know he become roommates and this

10:11

and that is like a paywall. What

10:14

is? Leaflet. The script

10:16

and our first year marriage. Is

10:18

also a week hannah have all

10:20

those harder conversations. Now.

10:24

So. That like when we do

10:26

get married, when we do

10:28

have. Our wedding like

10:30

it truly is just like a

10:32

full. Celebration. Of

10:34

what we're going into. and just like a

10:36

full representation of like. What

10:38

Are. What? like the light

10:41

that we pray to the these other? yeah. And

10:43

there's water pressure for us. It's. Like. As

10:46

soon as we got engaged. In. Like

10:48

when the way. When. The going

10:50

to happen and that created so much

10:52

anxiety. Lot of anxiety, a lot of pressure

10:54

are just a lot of decide. What

10:57

we got to get the sun we got us are planning. We got to

10:59

give people a day. And like even even a

11:01

little posts I put out today of like me i'm going

11:03

to be on a park as would questions you have. I

11:06

got so many questions of like. When's. The

11:08

wedding and like we're going to be. When.

11:11

That Cons: I'm excited to see.

11:13

I'm sure. But when they

11:15

I really realized that myself is. Either

11:18

a Canada. A little bit. A shame that

11:20

I had like anxiety when it. When.

11:23

We got engaged because ever buy things like

11:25

that like such a happy season and that

11:27

should be like all these feelings but. Learning

11:30

a lot of my own father.

11:32

He's actually just me. But a

11:34

lot of times when they're it's

11:37

commitment jumps in a relationship. whether

11:39

that's engagement. Married as

11:41

are moving in together, Dog

11:43

getting a dog, having babies,

11:46

When. There hasn't been some of this.

11:49

You. Know it when there's not a full

11:51

secure attachment. Some time that can be where

11:53

you start to feel like of bricks and

11:55

a relationship. Foundations or spray. yeah

11:58

no that's you even see like Yeah,

12:02

the okay, there's something like deeper

12:04

here. And I

12:06

think I felt that obviously.

12:11

But it wasn't because like anything that

12:15

like I felt connected to you and I loved

12:17

you. I do love you. But

12:19

there was something that really I needed

12:22

to work on and I needed to realize

12:24

how I could like really

12:28

show up in our relationship better and

12:30

how we could like really be able to show up for

12:32

each other. So. And

12:34

the more that we learn about attachment styles

12:36

and like how we're both

12:38

avoidant. Yeah. And how

12:40

those like big life events together

12:43

can kind of cause both

12:45

of us to like push away from each

12:47

other. Yeah. And

12:49

I think like one

12:51

thing that just like what

12:54

our therapist kind of is rooted in is that

12:56

like relationship

12:58

issues have to

13:01

do with attachment theory and

13:03

trying to understand like you

13:05

know, there's two types of attachments. They're

13:07

insecure or secure. But like in insecure,

13:10

there's avoidant and anxious. And

13:12

it really doesn't matter which one

13:14

you are. I think it can help.

13:16

It's good to know which one you

13:19

are. But you're still insecure. Right. The

13:21

goal is to get from insecure to secure.

13:23

Regardless of if you were avoidant

13:25

or anxious. To be that 20%. But

13:28

just from us being able to we've

13:30

been doing this work. We are both

13:33

very avoidant. So we realized

13:35

that a lot of times like when there is

13:37

friction. I

13:40

told my friends that I told my friends this and they're like what

13:42

is this? We're like we don't really get in

13:45

like fights. But the reason

13:47

we don't get in fights is because we're

13:50

both so avoidant. I

13:52

stuff it down. You remove yourself. Yeah.

13:55

Until it gets to a place like we've just stuffed

13:57

it down so far that we can come back. It's

14:00

like we're over it,

14:03

but it still needs to be addressed. And

14:05

so we've been learning so much about how

14:07

to show up for

14:09

each other in those times, like our

14:12

therapist, which I will definitely have.

14:15

She has to be on the podcast. She's going to have to be on the podcast.

14:17

With both of us. And maybe, maybe Ryan.

14:20

Yeah. Her husband. Yeah. I

14:22

think that'd be really cool, but she's just honestly

14:25

like a godsend has,

14:27

I mean, she changed her life. We

14:30

can, but I, you kind of want to keep

14:32

her close. I want to keep her close. Yeah. I

14:34

don't care her away yet. No, I

14:36

just, I think it'd be great for her to

14:39

be able to tell her whole spiel. Yeah.

14:42

As we've said, we've learned a lot, but I want

14:44

her to be able to like fully

14:46

tell like what

14:49

she does and what she's doing. But this is just us

14:51

kind of like sharing what's really

14:53

hit for us, but she's

14:56

really helped us try to start having these

14:59

conversations for when not that we're getting in

15:01

an argument, but when like a

15:03

story has it's in our head, she calls

15:05

it the story script. So I feel like

15:07

people have heard this before, but like when

15:10

people say like the story I'm telling myself,

15:13

instead of just being like, he's

15:15

an asshole. He's this, he's bad. Like

15:18

the story I'm telling myself is that

15:20

when you did this thing, it

15:22

made me feel this way. And

15:24

then being able to do that

15:27

in a calm manner and then

15:29

allowing the other person to reassure

15:31

and affirm our feelings, but

15:33

then also kind of like share where

15:36

that was coming from. And to be

15:38

able to have this type of conversation has been

15:40

huge. Huge,

15:42

huge for us. Yeah. Huge

15:45

for really anybody. Yes. She says

15:47

that that's like the one thing that like has

15:49

saved the marriages that like that

15:52

she has worked with, but she says the

15:55

one thing that I get there with anything, if

15:57

we can only pick one thing From

15:59

what you share. that shared with Ice. That.

16:02

Like. Has helped us so much

16:04

as like understand the story script because it's small

16:06

things in it feels so damn at first to

16:08

be like. Like. One of our story

16:10

spread is about me with the curtains. He didn't

16:13

hang out the curtains. But

16:15

it's small and you feel like, oh,

16:17

like I said needed say anything about

16:19

this. By. Is coming from?

16:21

There's always a story under. The story.

16:23

There's a lot underneath. Yeah, because it

16:26

in the story. You know? It

16:28

kinda he can go on for. For.

16:30

A long to the story can be long,

16:32

but it can go on for a long

16:34

time. Just builds and builds. Yeah, and we

16:37

found the underlying meaning behind why you are

16:39

so. Hurt. By me, not bring up the

16:41

curtains. When. You wanted it is done.

16:44

And. It. Was like oh my

16:46

gosh, there's way more to your enemy, you're

16:48

being upset and I'm a complete set. Yeah,

16:50

like oh my Gosh, like this means a

16:52

lot to you. That's great to know. And

16:55

I'm so glad. Like when we do the

16:57

story script that it's like. My

16:59

either on a paper. We have of

17:01

it as a as a survey for at. My

17:03

scripts person A and person be. And.

17:06

We go through it and there's there's blanks

17:08

where we saw on the blanks like. This.

17:11

Is what happened. This. Is

17:13

how it made me feel. These are the the

17:15

emotions the came up. And this

17:17

is what I need reassurance from before. And

17:20

it's very vulnerable, we both realized,

17:22

because. Of

17:24

just being a little bit more

17:26

like ceiling like dismiss some times

17:28

or. Letters

17:31

and see. I'm see that that it's

17:33

really hard for us to show up

17:35

as the person a that says like

17:37

hey. What? He did the hang

17:39

the curtain because like it's vulnerable to

17:41

be able to say like this hurt

17:43

me in it's making me feel. Like.

17:46

She gets is like a word beta even

17:48

help and wow I'm so glad we have

17:50

the word date even might put words sour

17:52

actually feeling after like that. So many people.

17:55

that either one of the biggest realization that i've had

17:57

i've really want to talk about like the big realization

18:00

we've each had, but like with

18:03

Adam and even like the anxiety and stuff that

18:05

I have a lot of times I don't have

18:07

words for it. Like I know

18:09

I have a need that's not being met.

18:12

But you just default default to like anxiety.

18:14

Yes. But there is actually a

18:16

need. And a lot of times

18:18

I'll make myself I'll say and I've got to work

18:20

on this even for you. I was like, I'm crazy.

18:23

I'm not crazy. There's a

18:25

need that needs to be met. I

18:27

do need to work on learning

18:30

how to really know

18:32

what my needs are. And that

18:34

comes from working on my self-esteem, which I've

18:36

been like really diving into. Like that's been

18:38

one of my biggest realizations is like when

18:42

you don't have high

18:44

self-esteem and a lot of people might think, oh my gosh,

18:46

you know, I would think you'd have high self-esteem like because

18:50

of some of the situations that I put myself

18:52

in and your achievements and

18:54

my achievements, but like even

18:56

getting to the root of that, like a

18:58

lot of the situations I've put myself in,

19:01

I didn't actually have autonomy because

19:03

if I had autonomy over myself, I

19:06

mean, I could have like self-trust and I don't

19:08

have self-trust. And when you don't

19:10

have that self-ethiccy

19:13

and worth established within

19:16

yourself, like obviously that creates so many

19:18

problems of just like your personal life.

19:20

But when it goes into your relationship,

19:22

there's so many times that there's

19:25

all these confirmation biases that I have

19:27

about my worth and who I am

19:29

that I'm

19:32

going to continue patterns of proving

19:34

that right rather than being happy

19:36

and realizing that like happiness

19:38

anxiety is a real thing

19:41

because it doesn't, if

19:45

it doesn't match the

19:47

story that I've told myself about who

19:49

I am and that has been so

19:51

big. Now do

19:53

I have like all

19:56

the tools and like have I fully like rewired

19:58

that part of our brain? absolutely not,

20:00

but being able to fully like see

20:03

the big picture of it in like

20:06

the roots underneath and where all that

20:08

comes from has been I mean

20:11

I have four hour therapy session. Let's

20:14

go Pookie. But it's been

20:16

it's been really cool and eye-opening

20:20

to be able to like see

20:23

that not only that like we have to

20:25

work together but like we're both doing our

20:27

own individual work and then being

20:29

in a space and learning how to share that

20:31

with each other in a way that like the

20:34

other person can be there and

20:36

support and and allow you to feel seen because

20:39

like that I feel like for a little while

20:41

I was like I've been in

20:43

therapy for a long time and I

20:45

maybe would uncover something but I

20:47

didn't know how to actually tell you and

20:49

you didn't know how to show up and

20:51

make me feel seen and safe for sharing

20:54

that so then I would either pull back

20:56

or feel so misunderstood and

20:58

I want to say one thing I know I'm just like

21:01

I feel like I'm on a roll. No, you're killing

21:03

it. Like I

21:05

said I've been in therapy for a long time

21:07

and I feel like I've read so many books

21:10

and so many things and

21:13

I remember when we went to our

21:15

first therapy session I said I'm just

21:17

like kind of over therapy and it's

21:19

not that I don't think that it was good and I

21:21

don't think that my therapist in the past were

21:23

bad. I think they were great human

21:26

beings and had wanted to help me

21:29

but I do feel like there is a little bit

21:32

of there

21:36

could be some work in the system of how

21:38

people like in therapy just in general like there's

21:40

a lot

21:43

of passive therapy like we our

21:45

therapist has talked about this she is not passive

21:47

at all and some people would like not like

21:50

that but she's really like it's immersive therapy and

21:52

it's helped in five weeks so much but

21:54

I just want to say to people who are feeling like where

21:56

I felt like five weeks ago five

21:59

I said five weeks. Hi week. Is.

22:02

Like. He. You are Not.

22:06

Broken, you're not damage

22:08

and In is not

22:10

you. And. You.

22:13

Are just you still have the right help? yet? And

22:16

it's okay to switch therapist. It's okay to

22:18

find a different route. There are. There

22:21

are some books that are not helpful. And.

22:24

I know that feeling when like. He.

22:27

Read a book. any clothes at night? My.

22:30

Bill actually like sit still. A lot of

22:32

the great the I don't I don't apply

22:35

this to my life, I know it. What

22:37

what it's like to go to therapy session

22:39

that's a forty minute. Therapy. Session.

22:42

And. Feel like I've just like opened

22:44

up this wound and now I'm. When

22:47

them it. It hit minute thirty

22:49

nine. Both times it turns out sorry.

22:51

In it's like I feel so open

22:53

and exposed. And

22:56

feeling like oh, I feel worse than I

22:58

did when I left. like I know what

23:00

that feels like it. I just like weren't.

23:03

And I know. Not.

23:06

Just a that feels like but what that? What

23:08

stories you start playing in your head. Of

23:10

like. oh this is might not work

23:13

for me down to be made his ass.

23:15

The meaning of undated of is. Not.

23:17

And. I wish

23:20

everybody good how are they are if is but also I

23:22

think. There. Are there is help

23:24

out there? but. You

23:27

can change you. can you can find

23:29

somebody? Who. Can help you and

23:31

good either I have. And. You're not

23:33

broken. And that's

23:35

been at like the one of to biggest. Elevate

23:37

Armory? Yeah, but you're not

23:40

broken effective. You. Just haven't

23:42

had the radio. Yeah. And.

23:46

What about you? What do you feel like has been

23:48

like a big realization? I for loyal. I've had.

23:51

More. Aha moments in last five weeks

23:53

then I have in a long time. Because.

23:56

About me And about. Yeah, but like.

23:59

Also. We, you can

24:01

kind of tell, we've kind of talked about this

24:03

in our, our other podcast together, but like we've

24:05

both done our own type of work, but

24:08

this is your first time to really fully go into

24:10

therapy. You had started going to therapy. Like you had

24:12

like one or two sessions before we decided to do

24:14

couples, but you had put

24:17

yourself into fully submerged

24:19

yourself into a lot of different things that

24:21

were kind of helping

24:24

mask everything. So like, how has this been different

24:26

than some of the other ways

24:28

that you've tried to like, I

24:31

would say cope. Yeah.

24:33

So in terms of,

24:35

you know, I, I got really big into meditation.

24:37

I got really big into yoga. Um,

24:40

all of that was kind

24:42

of a way for me to, you've read

24:44

all the books. I read a lot of

24:47

books. So many books. I just

24:49

went on this endless journey of searching for

24:52

purpose, but also just like running away

24:54

from, um, potential

24:59

disappointment. So

25:01

I was, I was in

25:03

a very serious relationship beginning of

25:05

college. I got

25:07

cheated on. It didn't work out. I felt

25:10

very just like rejected and abandoned.

25:13

And that, that plays a lot

25:15

to my attachment story. So

25:17

like, I'm an avoidant

25:19

attachment style. So that means I

25:21

pull away whenever I feel like I'm going to be

25:24

abandoned. So that is

25:26

kind of played throughout my life. And

25:28

it played out in college when I got broken

25:31

up with and got my heart broken. It

25:33

played out. Um, when I

25:35

left my banking job, uh, the

25:38

first time I felt

25:40

rejected, you know, I, I was given

25:42

a job at the new bank, but it was kind of

25:44

like, you know, here's this, this is what we have. It's

25:46

not what you really want. So

25:49

I was kind of like, Oh, I don't

25:51

need that. And then I went on this

25:53

like endless search for meaning and purpose in

25:55

this world, and that involves a lot of

25:57

masking my emotions in terms of, you know.

26:00

doing yoga every single day, meditating

26:02

for hours on end, um,

26:06

kind of holding myself up in, in my

26:08

studio apartment in both Dallas and in Chicago

26:10

before I made it to LA. And

26:13

like, I didn't, I didn't, I hung with friends every now

26:15

and then, but I, I like walled

26:17

myself up so that one, I

26:20

couldn't get hurt and

26:22

two, so I couldn't hurt somebody else. So

26:24

like my relationships with women were

26:26

very just kind of surface

26:28

level. I didn't let it go too far to

26:31

where I could hurt them or vice versa. Um,

26:35

so the big aha for me was like, you

26:39

got to get to the root of like what's

26:41

happening, what's going on inside that's causing you to

26:43

be this avoidant and to avoid, um,

26:46

sharing anything about your life with

26:48

another individual. Yeah.

26:51

So, but then how did you get to

26:53

me and be able to like, even, did

26:57

I feel like to an extent

26:59

you opened up, we wouldn't be here.

27:01

Yeah. You know,

27:04

we wouldn't have gotten to where we are. And

27:07

I feel like you were definitely like, you

27:10

pursued me quite a

27:12

bit at the beginning, but what

27:14

if, like what do you feel like what's happening

27:16

there? Like what have you learned in therapy from

27:19

that? Well, coming

27:22

into a relationship with, with

27:24

someone who's so well known, it

27:27

was, there was a lot of pressure. There was a lot of

27:29

pressure to be buttoned up, to be

27:31

perfect, to be, to

27:33

make it seem like I had everything together. Because

27:36

if I didn't, then the

27:38

fear of abandonment would really come up

27:41

because I was so exposed. It

27:43

was like, everybody can see me in my relationship

27:45

now. And that

27:47

felt very unsafe. So

27:51

what I did was put on this

27:53

mask of like invincibility of, of

27:55

like being your rock and never, never

27:58

showing weakness. Um,

28:02

having it all together, always being

28:04

perfect, obviously not perfect, but

28:08

striving for perfection so

28:10

that you wouldn't see the real me

28:12

and abandoned me. And then

28:14

that rejection that comes with it being public

28:17

was a lot to bear. But

28:21

what I've found in therapy is that

28:24

in terms of attachment, like you can't, you

28:26

can't relate to perfection. You can't

28:28

relate to this robotic atom

28:30

that I kind of created as a

28:32

self protecting mechanism. And

28:36

once I started sharing in therapy, once I

28:38

started like really being vulnerable, and I've said

28:40

to somebody, I hate the word vulnerability because

28:42

I think it's overused, but

28:44

vulnerability is so important. Well,

28:48

because people don't really know it. I mean, I, I

28:51

feel like vulnerability

28:54

is also overused. And I know people would

28:56

say to me, I remember like somebody that

28:58

was on my team would be like, your vulnerability

29:01

is your superpower. And I was like, yes, it

29:03

is. But really, and I was

29:05

like, yeah, yeah, it is. But I actually

29:07

wasn't because I didn't actually know what the

29:09

definition of being vulnerable

29:11

is. And I feel like

29:13

our therapist has made it really clear, like

29:15

being vulnerable is feeling

29:18

and being safe and seen at

29:20

the same time. There's

29:23

a lot of times I felt safe and there's

29:25

a lot of times I felt seen, but at the same

29:29

time, I've now

29:31

had moments, but that was also like

29:34

a huge revelation of like, I don't

29:36

think I've ever felt that. And like,

29:38

I love you. I know you've supported me, but

29:40

I think sometimes where I felt like you've seen

29:42

me and seen me at my weakest, I still

29:44

didn't fully feel safe. Yeah. But,

29:51

and then sometimes I felt safe, but

29:54

I wasn't fully showing the

29:57

deep roots of everything. Yeah. And

30:01

yeah. Yeah, so like I went

30:03

on this like masculine, feminine

30:05

polarity kick and.

30:09

I don't want you to say kick because

30:11

I feel like you did learn a lot. I learned a lot.

30:14

Yeah, I'm not saying that there's anything

30:16

wrong with that. But

30:19

in terms of a relationship, if

30:22

you don't, if you kind of like go

30:26

with the idea of like, I need to keep this

30:28

masculine frame. I need to not show emotion. I

30:30

need to not share. I need to keep it all together. Then

30:33

the connection will not be

30:35

there because you can't connect

30:38

to someone who doesn't

30:40

share fears, doubts, emotions, realness.

30:45

Because I wasn't being real. I was like, yes,

30:47

I was listening to you. I was holding space for

30:49

your vulnerabilities, but I

30:52

wasn't reciprocating it in any way. You

30:55

know, I gave you just enough to

30:57

like, okay, he's showing me a little bit here, but

31:00

he didn't tell me about, like he wouldn't talk

31:02

about his past relationships with me. He wouldn't talk

31:05

about. Because

31:07

that would expose a weakness

31:10

or insecurity. Insecurity of myself. Yeah. And

31:12

then maybe I would question

31:15

something about you or. You're

31:17

defective. Yeah. I'm going to abandon you. Like that

31:19

was the story that played in my mind. But

31:21

what I feel like we've learned from this,

31:24

like having these conversations

31:27

is like kind of what,

31:29

Adam saying, like for me, I

31:31

felt like

31:34

cuckoo, cuckoo crazy. Because

31:38

I got

31:42

to a point, it's just with

31:44

everything. Like I couldn't fake

31:46

it anymore. So like

31:48

I was like, I am such a mess.

31:51

But if think about

31:53

like, if when you're like, I'm feeling so bad,

31:56

you're crying, and somebody just is like rubbing

31:58

your back going, the hair, the hair. And you know

32:01

they're like trying like they're trying to be

32:03

there. And you're like, you don't feel this at all.

32:05

But they're just like kind of uncomfortable, but

32:07

you know, they're trying to keep like mad

32:09

at them because like they're doing their best.

32:13

And then you'd be like ungrateful because at least

32:15

you have some money that's like rubbing your back

32:17

and patting you. That's sometimes how I felt. It's

32:22

like Adam really did show up perfectly.

32:24

Like you were, you're, you're always there

32:26

for me. But

32:30

there's always a story under the story.

32:33

And a lot of times you would like be

32:37

able to console

32:39

me in a point that I could be

32:42

like, he can solve me.

32:44

He's here for me. But

32:47

it was like that connection of being able to feel

32:49

like, oh, like you've felt the way I felt before

32:51

or like, oh, you still, you struggle

32:54

with these fears

32:56

of abandonment are not being good enough

32:58

or being unlovable

33:00

or a burden. Like that is what

33:03

connects someone. And I feel like a

33:05

lot of men struggle with this of

33:07

like being able to like show up

33:09

for their partner because

33:13

of like what is being reiterated

33:15

to men from the very beginning.

33:17

It's like get

33:22

up wipe wipe wipe off your your

33:24

all the dirt and get up. Don't

33:26

cry. Don't show emotion. Be

33:29

strong and like, yes,

33:31

like be strong. But like actually what

33:33

has what will connect

33:35

you to your partner more is being able

33:38

to show up for her and and

33:41

show yourself too. And

33:43

there's there's so much strength in being

33:45

seen. Yeah. And being seen

33:47

and making connection because of it

33:49

because vulnerability actually is a superpower when you

33:51

know how to do it. Yeah, and

33:54

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34:59

Of the relations outs I'm most proud

35:01

of is definitely my relationship with Adam.

35:04

We have worked so hard on

35:06

being able to communicate our needs

35:08

with each other and continue to

35:10

do that. We've

35:12

done therapy together and we've also

35:14

done therapy separately so that we

35:16

can figure out what our needs actually are

35:18

and how to be able to like best

35:20

communicate with them. I think

35:23

a common misconception about relationships is that they

35:25

have to be easy to be right. But

35:27

sometimes like the best ones happen when both people

35:30

put in the work to make them great. Therapy

35:33

can be a place to work through your

35:35

challenges you face in your relationships. Whether

35:38

that's like not just

35:40

your romantic relationships but

35:42

your friends, work or really anyone

35:44

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35:46

you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp

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35:59

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36:01

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36:03

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36:06

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36:08

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36:10

your first order. That's

36:13

betterhelp, h-e-l-p.com tomorrow. What

36:22

else have we learned? Oh, compatibility.

36:25

Yes. Yeah. So I

36:27

actually talk about this a little bit

36:29

in my book, my first book about

36:33

me recognizing like the people

36:35

that I had

36:37

like these crazy sparks with. As

36:40

I like was writing about my life, I'm

36:42

like, hmm, these

36:44

all are interesting because these all didn't end

36:46

up very like they didn't turn out very

36:49

well and kind of already putting

36:51

together that like a lot of that spark

36:53

feeling was anxiety but our therapist

36:56

really gave us more like

36:58

science back in that and then also just

37:00

like clarity

37:03

of like what what makes

37:06

relationship last work like what is important

37:08

like is chemistry is sparks? Are they

37:10

are they important or is it something

37:12

that you disregard? What even is compatibility

37:15

and like one of her truths

37:17

that she says that I

37:19

feel like I've really clung

37:21

to and it's been a big realization for

37:24

me is compatibility

37:28

is an achievement

37:30

not a precursor because

37:32

there's so many people and I know

37:35

like when I was single or when

37:37

I see my friends being

37:39

single like single there's so many times we like

37:44

count people out because you didn't feel this

37:46

certain thing or they didn't like match this certain part of

37:48

you or you didn't I didn't get

37:50

butterflies. Yeah. Yeah. And compatibility

37:53

is really something that you have to

37:55

work on and not just

37:59

like understand that like

38:01

sparks equal anxiety, but

38:03

it actually

38:05

is like a familiarity. Do

38:09

you remember her talking about like,

38:11

we get our definition,

38:13

are we, are like,

38:16

we know what love is from what

38:18

love meant in our childhood. And

38:21

if the love we

38:23

feel doesn't match what

38:25

we felt when we

38:27

were a child, then we'll reject

38:30

them. But if it feels like

38:32

that love, that's when we have

38:34

like the strongest connection, chemistry and

38:36

the spark. And like, I

38:38

first want to say like, I

38:41

love my parents and I know they love

38:43

me and I know you love your parents

38:45

and we love your parents and they love

38:47

you, but we all have childhood wounds and

38:49

our parents are, were imperfect and

38:51

they didn't always show up the way we needed them to.

38:55

And I know in my house, there was love was

38:58

chaotic and not always

39:02

safe, not

39:04

safe and was

39:07

kind of sometimes a gambling machine. Sometimes

39:09

there was sometimes not, it wasn't always

39:11

steady. And so a lot

39:14

of the relationships that I felt that

39:17

they were the

39:19

ones that I felt like, Oh my

39:21

gosh, we just had this intense chemistry

39:23

and it's just palpable. And, but

39:27

it makes so much sense. I'm like,

39:29

yes, because that, even though

39:31

they didn't have the characteristics of my

39:33

parents, maybe we didn't, those feelings were

39:36

the same feelings that I had when

39:39

it came to like feeling loved,

39:42

recognized, valued, seen

39:44

as a child. And

39:46

so you have to kind of

39:48

like make the choice. And it sometimes it's like a

39:50

subconscious choice. We are pulled to,

39:52

well, if you don't do

39:55

the work, like you're pulled to subconsciously choose

39:57

what's familiar. And we're always like, if you

39:59

do that, that you're not going to

40:01

be your parents. You're going to be like a

40:03

little bit better version of your parents with Adam.

40:06

You are so unfamiliar. I do not, that's

40:08

not the way our love is at all

40:11

or how you show up for me. So like, Oh God,

40:14

I was a little confused at first. And we,

40:16

I've talked about that and podcast past, but like

40:19

what compatibility is something that

40:21

you work on and you grow

40:24

together. And if you both have a

40:26

growth mindset, which we both have, like

40:28

that's what you'd have an amazing, like

40:30

amazing love. Do

40:33

you have anything to say to that? I

40:35

mean, you kind of said it all. That was, that

40:38

was great. Yeah. I was just kind of admiring you

40:40

when you were saying all that. Um,

40:43

but it's so true. I think compatibility

40:46

is definitely something that you can

40:49

work toward and achieve, and it's

40:51

not something that necessarily needs to

40:53

be there right off

40:55

the bat and to feel all that,

40:58

those things that anxious emotions. And, um,

41:01

because what we've learned is that in

41:04

order to like rewire and not

41:07

become like our parents, parents

41:09

are great. Um, to

41:11

have a love that we are like really, really

41:13

proud of, we have

41:16

to start rewiring our brain. We

41:18

have to start making mismatches and. What

41:22

are mismatch moment? Do

41:24

you want to explain the mismatches? Do you want

41:26

me to kind of, um, cause you

41:29

gotta make them work the mismatch

41:31

moments. So we're learning,

41:33

like, like I just said,

41:35

like we, uh, get our

41:37

definition of love from our childhood.

41:41

A lot of us want to change that. We don't want to have

41:44

the same exact relationship

41:46

as our parents. We want

41:48

to be better. We have, I mean,

41:51

I feel like we're the first generation that's

41:53

really had the information to change too. I

41:55

think our parents are like the very best

41:57

they could be like, nobody was talking about.

42:00

attachment theory or it's

42:02

sharing your emotions. So we're

42:04

wanting to be better and so we have to

42:06

learn how to like rewire our brain and we'll

42:09

have our audience to explain all

42:11

the actual like scientific actual

42:14

stuff that's going on in the brain. But basically there

42:17

are certain ways that we can like work

42:20

to rewire that part of our brain and

42:22

like mostly it's reps doing all these things

42:26

over and over and over again and putting

42:29

in the work that I feel like we've

42:31

been doing and making it really intentional. But

42:33

one of these things like a mismatch

42:35

detector that she says and so

42:39

like one of like our homework is to

42:41

create mismatch moments for each other and

42:45

it'll it helps us rewire

42:48

that like you know

42:50

love is constant or

42:55

hey like for both of

42:57

us especially for me like sometimes physical touch I'm

42:59

like get away from me. But

43:01

learning how like a mismatch moment would be

43:03

me like really leaning into Adam and giving

43:06

him like a little bit of

43:08

a longer hug than I normally would and

43:10

like really allowing for that when you're

43:12

in a hug to like rest

43:14

in somebody's arms that

43:17

would be like a mismatch moment or when

43:19

Adam walks through the door like dropping

43:23

everything to like welcome

43:26

him in instead of like I feel

43:29

like when you're probably walking in the door I like

43:31

have my hair on the side of my head I'm like

43:34

doing four things at one time and I'm like trying to

43:36

make dinner I'm like hey. But like really like taking

43:38

the time to like be present um

43:45

what would you what would you say is another mismatch moment?

43:47

I think that's the only two we've learned so far

43:50

but no like more like the notes notes

43:52

yeah like making out like hey I'm yeah

43:55

hey I'm thinking about you yeah you're you're not a

43:57

burden your anxiety is not too much for me. me.

44:00

Yeah. And just like reaffirming the

44:02

new story that we're creating for ourselves.

44:04

Yeah. Well, we, our homework also is like send

44:06

each other texts at like certain times when we're

44:08

not together to just reassure

44:11

and to help continue

44:13

to change and rewire the

44:18

story that we both like have

44:21

thought was true about ourselves. So

44:24

that's kind of like the small

44:26

but big things that we do

44:28

to really connect.

44:31

Yeah. It's been going great. It's been

44:33

going so great. Like I... It's energizing.

44:35

I thought, I thought four

44:37

hour therapy sessions were going to be draining

44:39

and yes, I mean you get tired every now and then,

44:42

but like I feel energized after them.

44:44

I'm like, we are making some serious

44:46

progress in actually changing

44:49

our relationship for the better. Yeah.

44:51

But also like changing ourselves individually

44:53

and making ourselves just more

44:56

lovable and like just better people.

44:59

And like we've had some really

45:01

emotional like hard conversations for each

45:03

other that we normally

45:06

wouldn't have. And like really

45:08

breaking down both emotionally. And

45:10

it's so weird because

45:12

a lot of times I feel like

45:14

so embarrassed or upset or like what

45:16

is the other person thinking? But

45:18

that is when

45:20

we have both felt the most like attached

45:23

and I feel like in love with the

45:25

other person when you see them like doing

45:27

this really hard thing and really going into

45:30

like the basement of

45:32

all the things that you are

45:35

ashamed of or and

45:37

there's a lot down in that basement.

45:40

I have been shoving stuff down in my basement

45:42

for a long time. That's why we have

45:45

four hour sessions. But it's been so

45:47

cool to be able to watch your

45:49

person and go there and to

45:53

feel all those feelings and then to

45:55

like start rewriting that and then out

45:58

of the session see. how

46:00

they're showing up differently for not just you

46:02

but for themselves it's been so

46:05

cool and I'm just like so excited

46:07

that we're doing this together and You

46:11

know the wedding planning will come And

46:14

I think it's gonna be so much more fun now a hundred

46:16

percent It's gonna be

46:18

the best. It's almost like it almost hurts

46:21

to think about like if we didn't start

46:23

this and We started

46:25

wedding planning It

46:27

just it wouldn't it wouldn't be the same and be the same so

46:31

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46:36

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46:38

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46:40

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46:42

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46:45

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46:47

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46:49

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46:51

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49:48

Thank you. Well,

49:54

we asked some questions, or we asked on

49:57

my social media, and you asked on your social media

49:59

too, like for you guys. to send in some questions.

50:01

So, Andrew, producer Andrew is

50:03

going to pick some

50:05

random ones and we're going to answer them

50:07

as best as we can. Like we said,

50:09

we're five weeks in pros but... You

50:13

guys do sound like pros though. That was a

50:16

really cool conversation. I

50:20

feel like I learned a lot. Nice. I'm

50:22

excited. Well, we've learned like, I

50:24

think it's really exciting to like

50:27

share something that has been

50:29

so impactful for us with other people.

50:31

Like... Totally. There's like

50:33

just a passion behind it because we're like, oh

50:35

my gosh, like our lives have changed

50:38

so quickly and so deeply from

50:41

just having the right information. And like we've

50:43

always loved sharing things that work for us,

50:45

but usually it's like a gadget or something

50:47

or like a new drink. Sure. But now...

50:50

They get more hair care, you know. It's

50:52

so much more transformative that I think it

50:55

really gets us going and it like

50:57

energizes us to speak about it and to

50:59

like tell people about it. Yeah, because I think

51:01

we both felt so much shame for being like, wait,

51:04

we love each other. Like, I

51:07

found my person, I want to make this work, but there's

51:09

still like some stuff here. And do I just like press

51:11

it? Do we just shove it down? Because we're like good

51:13

for each other. But like, I think that's

51:16

how a lot of people feel sometimes. Yeah. And to

51:18

be able to be in a place where it feels

51:21

like in five weeks, like

51:23

confident enough to start sharing our story. And

51:25

like, of course, there's things that like, we'll

51:27

continue to share once like, we

51:30

feel more comfortable in doing this work.

51:34

I would want to know that

51:36

like, first of all, like I'm not alone

51:38

for like needing help. And

51:42

knowing that there's ways that even

51:44

though I've chosen my partner, he's

51:46

awesome. I'm awesome. But there's

51:49

ways that we can learn to communicate

51:51

and be able to make our relationship

51:54

the 20%. Because unfortunately, the statistics are not

51:56

great. And I don't want to be statistics.

51:59

And like you as a. as a couple you can

52:01

check all the boxes. Like you can both have a

52:03

great job. You can both be, you

52:05

know, somewhat fulfilled,

52:07

you know, alone. You

52:11

can have a great family or the great upbringing

52:13

and then there's just something there that just like

52:15

not allowing you guys to connect. And I think

52:20

we kind of started feeling that, you

52:22

know, in the last last couple

52:24

months leading up into therapy

52:26

and like uncovering

52:28

all of that was like,

52:30

that was the missing piece. Like we really had

52:32

to get down in there

52:35

and like clear all that out before we

52:37

could like fully, fully connect and show up

52:39

for each other. Yeah. It's been awesome. I

52:41

feel like it's inspiring to see that it

52:44

can happen in, you know,

52:46

just over a month. You can make

52:48

like legitimate progress. I feel like the

52:51

fear of therapy, especially couples therapy is

52:53

like, Oh, I'm embarking on

52:56

a journey that's going to be

52:58

six months before we're able to

53:00

like actually feel like we accomplished

53:02

something. And most therapies

53:05

probably would take that longer.

53:07

But that's what our therapist says. She's like,

53:10

we're not going to be doing this for six

53:12

months. Now, like we said, we're

53:14

having a long

53:16

sessions, but it's

53:18

immersive. And she is like, they're with us

53:21

in it. And it's like, we're not going

53:23

to be in the same place. I mean,

53:25

in, like we said, in the

53:28

amount of time, how much we've shifted,

53:30

that is, that

53:32

would have not been possible with a once

53:35

a week, 40 minute session. It just wouldn't have been,

53:38

unless you're doing a lot of work outside.

53:40

And I do think you could do that.

53:43

Because like, look, I know

53:45

we're super privileged, privileged to be able to

53:47

do what we're doing, like therapy is expensive,

53:49

and there should be like, better access, like

53:51

that's the whole soapbox. But I

53:55

think the importance is like when two

53:57

people in the relate,

54:00

like the two people in the relationship are both like,

54:02

we want to do this, we want to figure this

54:04

out. You can find the help and there are workbooks

54:06

and there are things you can do. And when

54:09

I do have our therapist on,

54:11

she like even had like on

54:13

like online courses and things that she does

54:15

that are the exact things we're doing. So

54:19

I didn't want her to explain it all before

54:21

I share, but, um, yeah,

54:23

I think, I think it's really important and

54:26

it can change quickly. Yeah.

54:28

Let's get into some questions. Yeah. Let's do it. Okay.

54:30

So the first one you kind of

54:32

mentioned your default

54:34

is anxiety and how does

54:36

Adam support you when you're

54:39

feeling especially anxious? I

54:43

mean, I think the way

54:45

that he's showing up different is just

54:47

saying, um,

54:49

that I'm not a burden. Cause that's one of

54:52

my big stories is that like my mental health

54:55

and, um, not

54:59

being okay and not being able to put on

55:01

the show anymore. Sometimes it's such a burden for

55:03

other people. And that's in all my relationships, I

55:06

feel like, but especially with my partner,

55:10

sometimes I feel like,

55:13

why would he want, you know, my story was like, why would somebody want

55:15

to be with me? Like

55:17

I need to push him away to save him. And

55:21

so the way that

55:23

he's been supporting me even more than I've ever

55:26

more than he already was, cause I felt like he were

55:29

showing up for me, but reminding me that my

55:31

anxiety is not a burden to you. Yeah.

55:33

It's kind of, it's kind of a two step process. It's,

55:36

you know, holding space for your anxiety

55:39

and for your worries, your doubts,

55:42

and, and just being there while you're

55:44

telling me about it. And

55:47

then secondly, it's

55:49

reassuring that, you

55:51

know, what you're feeling is valid.

55:53

What you're feeling makes sense to me. And

55:56

like validating you and being like, Oh my

55:58

gosh, I can totally. see why you would feel

56:01

that way. Because the majority of

56:03

the time I can, I'm like, it

56:05

makes sense why you feel that way. That's

56:07

been the other key is like you being able

56:09

to say that shifted is that

56:12

you, um, will

56:14

now be like, I

56:16

know what that feels like, or

56:18

I've felt that sadness before, or,

56:20

and then sharing a little

56:23

bit of yourself, of yourself when I'm

56:25

in like my vulnerable messiness that you you're

56:27

saying, not that I'm asking you to fully

56:29

go there with me and be a blubbering

56:31

mess, but to

56:34

remind me that like, you have felt all

56:36

these feelings before too. Yep. Yeah. That's,

56:38

that's my thing. Sharing more, sharing

56:41

just to share. Yeah. Because that's how we connect. Yeah.

56:44

And that's not what I did growing up. No. So

56:48

you guys, in the very

56:50

beginning, we're talking about when you, you're avoidant.

56:53

And so when you would, an argument would start

56:56

to come up, you both kind of

56:58

have your own way of avoiding that

57:00

argument. How have you learned to have

57:02

productive arguments? We, that's still

57:05

something, still something that we're learning

57:07

of how to have. Actually

57:10

have an argument disagreement. Um,

57:14

it's funny, we were talking about this a little bit. What

57:17

was it last night? Like we both have

57:19

been in relationships where we

57:21

have had fights. Yeah. So

57:24

it's interesting that we've got, we've both gotten

57:26

to this place where we

57:28

don't really have arguments.

57:33

Um, can I say what I think it is? Yeah. I

57:35

would love for you to, I think because we're both avoidant,

57:37

that's what we did in the past, we would just avoid

57:39

the confrontation, but I think now

57:41

that we're being more secure in our relationship

57:43

and we're still avoidant, I think

57:45

we're just both more mature now. That

57:48

we can see it kind of building up and we

57:50

can, we can kind of regulate inside

57:53

and then have a conversation. The story script,

57:55

the story script, the story script, the story

57:57

script is huge because it, it almost. like

58:00

puts the other so like if I say babe we

58:02

need to do the story script so I'm person a

58:04

and I'm I have something going on inside that I

58:06

need to get out whenever

58:08

I grab that story script it almost

58:10

puts her nervous system like

58:13

at ease it almost

58:15

makes her calm and like okay we're about

58:17

to talk about something that's serious and

58:20

that we both need to be present for and we both

58:22

want to work through it like we're not

58:24

wanting this to turn into something that's

58:30

during like we wanted we want to do it

58:32

right now and I think that's another like just

58:34

another part of it is not letting

58:37

it go and even if it feels

58:39

small and stupid we've

58:42

learned that there is no small

58:44

no yeah they can eventually get

58:46

too big and yes yes and

58:49

it's like we both need that

58:51

so there's nobody else that's like rolling their eyes it's

58:53

like all right

58:55

I don't know where this is going but

58:57

like obviously this is bothering you and we

59:00

would both rather it not turning to something

59:03

big and and like

59:05

yeah and when we grab the story script now

59:07

it's almost exciting it's like what you got for

59:09

me elephant

59:13

in the room it's like oh it's

59:16

gonna be fun yeah okay so two

59:18

follow-up questions how do you know when

59:20

it's time to do like

59:22

the story script is there like if

59:24

I'm understanding correctly you're feeling a certain

59:27

type of way inside you

59:29

haven't expressed yep and then

59:31

you initiate that

59:33

and you guys walk through like so an

59:37

example is sometimes

59:40

when something's festering will both make

59:42

like some type of like joke

59:45

about it and the therapist

59:48

asks us about like one thing we haven't talked about

59:50

is your dog and we

59:52

start talking about like yeah well Wally likes him

59:54

more and he

59:56

goes yeah I

59:58

guess he does yeah he does And

1:00:01

I immediately was like, you're an asshole. And

1:00:04

she was like, whoa. I

1:00:06

think there's something there. And

1:00:10

I know. She's like, why did you just

1:00:12

call him asshole? And

1:00:15

I'm like, I don't know. But

1:00:19

it's because

1:00:21

I feel like I can't always

1:00:24

show up for Wally the way Adam

1:00:26

does. And Wally also

1:00:28

represents kids in the future. And

1:00:30

it's like actually this deep thing

1:00:32

of me feeling like I

1:00:34

can't show up the way that I need to

1:00:36

show up. And therefore, if something were

1:00:38

to happen with me and Adam, Wally would

1:00:40

choose him. If we had kids, I

1:00:44

wouldn't actually be a good mother. Like,

1:00:47

it's actually this deep thing. So recognizing...

1:00:49

So that's her story. So that's my

1:00:51

story that I don't feel like I'll

1:00:53

be able to show up

1:00:55

the way that I need to for my children

1:00:57

or that I... And

1:01:00

if I can't even take care of a dog, then how would I

1:01:02

ever be able to have kids? It's so

1:01:04

there. So grabbing

1:01:07

the story script, we're breaking that

1:01:09

story down, destroying it. And then

1:01:11

I'm basically validating her and reassuring

1:01:13

her that that's a valid feeling

1:01:16

to have. Valid feeling, but also that

1:01:18

like Wally loves me. And if Wally

1:01:20

needs comfort and wants to... And

1:01:23

we're going to bed at night, he lays by

1:01:25

me. But like Wally

1:01:27

loves playing with Adam because Wally... I

1:01:30

mean, because Adam will really get in there with Wally

1:01:32

and like that's not really my thing. Yeah,

1:01:34

everybody has something that you both have something to

1:01:37

offer. And so it was

1:01:39

so healing, but it's kind of like, obviously

1:01:42

I reacted with, you're an

1:01:44

asshole after he just said something like

1:01:47

was agreeing with me. So

1:01:49

when you're at home and you're not

1:01:52

in therapy and it's like that

1:01:54

emotion comes up or an emotion like

1:01:57

that, you have to

1:01:59

have the awareness. to say, I got

1:02:01

to get the story script because there is

1:02:03

something, there's a layers to this

1:02:06

that I have to now explain. Not even

1:02:08

the awareness, but like also the courage to

1:02:10

say. Yeah, but I will say like, um,

1:02:13

we wouldn't have been able to

1:02:16

do that without Jordan, you know,

1:02:19

and we're still like, we're fumbling around with the

1:02:21

story script. We have not figured this out. There's

1:02:24

still like the other night we

1:02:26

had one when Adam's doing

1:02:28

like this awesome job, which I want to talk

1:02:30

about at some point, but really like more aligned

1:02:32

with what he wants to do. But we were

1:02:34

talking about, he was trying to share like, all

1:02:36

right, I think I'm going to take this new

1:02:38

position and something

1:02:42

came up because I have

1:02:44

like another story that I

1:02:46

felt was kind of

1:02:48

coming in. I felt like he

1:02:51

fully wasn't sharing as much because he didn't

1:02:53

know how. I'm like, we knew there was

1:02:55

like these feelings

1:02:57

there. I

1:03:00

don't know if we fully did the story script

1:03:03

right, but we were trying. Like we were trying.

1:03:06

And I just

1:03:08

want to reiterate, like we're five weeks in, we're

1:03:10

still, so we got the story script two weeks

1:03:12

ago where we're still

1:03:14

like fumbling through it, but, um, it

1:03:18

does help that we have the support that we have to kind

1:03:20

of get through it. And then even

1:03:23

just trying, I mean, it makes the other person feel

1:03:25

seen. I think for sure. Fumbling through it is still

1:03:27

better than not, not even addressing it. Yeah. Okay.

1:03:30

Then one other follow-up from a couple of

1:03:32

questions ago, you're mentioning

1:03:34

no, nothing is too small. There's

1:03:37

no such thing as a too small of a argument

1:03:39

or issue. How

1:03:41

do you get past? I feel like a common thought

1:03:45

is that if you're

1:03:47

constantly bringing up all of these

1:03:49

little things, that gets exhausting. And

1:03:52

it feels like we're always addressing this tiny

1:03:54

little, you said this and it made me

1:03:56

feel that way as opposed to, yeah, I

1:03:58

guess I feel like the. default

1:04:00

is to like let that build

1:04:03

into something that's like substantial

1:04:05

enough to be brought up. How do you

1:04:07

get past the quote-unquote

1:04:09

exhaustion of constantly bringing up

1:04:12

little things? Well

1:04:14

I think the thought is because I feel

1:04:17

like we kind of had that same thought

1:04:19

and conversation is like there

1:04:23

won't always be all these

1:04:25

small things but we have 36, 29

1:04:28

years of stuff that's been like pent

1:04:31

up inside of us and

1:04:33

never had the tools to communicate

1:04:36

so yeah there's gonna be a lot of

1:04:38

small things at first because

1:04:40

these stories are so deep

1:04:42

rooted. I mean that story about

1:04:44

Wally me having that one little

1:04:46

comment with something so deep

1:04:49

but I think I'm a burden. The whole

1:04:51

anxiety like me sharing my anxiety is because

1:04:53

I feel like it's a burden like that's

1:04:55

such it's a heavy deep

1:05:01

story that comes in all

1:05:03

the time so the more

1:05:05

that we like every

1:05:07

time it comes up like denounce it and

1:05:09

like speak truth into each other the less

1:05:13

that's gonna keep happening but at first when you

1:05:15

first start yeah there's gonna be a

1:05:17

lot of things that are going to keep happening and

1:05:19

then you're like okay I'm

1:05:22

like okay I'm gonna do it and then you're like yeah let's do it

1:05:24

yeah but our therapist

1:05:27

even says like her and her husband they rarely have to do

1:05:29

it anymore because

1:05:32

they're just they're so like in sync now but they still

1:05:34

do they still do

1:05:38

it for sure and you know probably with big things but it's it's less like

1:05:43

a little bit of a fear to just kind of in normal conversation

1:05:45

yeah instead of like

1:05:49

getting out the sheet of paper sitting down and

1:05:52

like reading through it. But I think the sheet of

1:05:54

paper is so critical for us now for us

1:05:56

now so it's not like because sometimes

1:05:58

yeah I feel like for us sometimes like trying to resolve the

1:06:00

situation when you don't have the

1:06:02

right to help does more harm

1:06:04

than good because falling

1:06:07

the story script makes sure

1:06:10

that we're saying things more clear

1:06:12

and concise. We have a vulnerability

1:06:15

feeling word bank so that we

1:06:18

aren't... I feel rejected. I feel stupid. And it's

1:06:20

not like... And even how we approach

1:06:23

the situation of bringing

1:06:25

it in, a lot of times people will be like it's

1:06:30

important that when you're talking

1:06:34

about whatever story is coming up and

1:06:36

what actually happened that it's like somebody

1:06:38

could be filming you, could see

1:06:41

everything that's happened because a lot of times we'll

1:06:44

be like, when I said something

1:06:47

about the dog and you were

1:06:51

kind of short with me and distant, it's

1:06:53

like, well, you didn't... You can't

1:06:55

really see that he was disconnected

1:06:58

or something with me. It's

1:07:01

really being like when I said the comment

1:07:03

about the dog and you agreed

1:07:06

with me, it made me

1:07:08

feel these ways. But I

1:07:12

think I would try to do my own version of the story

1:07:14

script before I had it, but I was

1:07:16

not doing it the right way. I was

1:07:18

like, oh, I think I've

1:07:21

done this before. I try to do

1:07:23

this, but he doesn't really respond. You were

1:07:25

a lot better than I was. But

1:07:27

I think it's important to actually know how

1:07:30

to do it. And I feel like

1:07:32

we could talk about this on

1:07:34

and on. And if you guys are

1:07:36

interested in hearing more about not

1:07:39

just our relationship, but how to show up

1:07:41

in your relationship

1:07:43

and just also

1:07:46

how to show up for yourself. I feel

1:07:48

like we could have more conversations about what

1:07:50

we're learning. We'll have updates. Also,

1:07:52

like I said, very clear

1:07:54

that it would be awesome to have our

1:07:56

therapist on. And I can share her with you

1:07:58

guys. So, um,

1:08:02

thanks for coming on and doing this with me today. Thanks

1:08:04

for, thanks for having me. Happy Valentine's Day

1:08:07

to you and to everyone out there. Yeah.

1:08:10

And we love you guys and we

1:08:12

hope you feel loved today and feel

1:08:16

seen and safe. Bye. Thank

1:08:18

you guys so much for listening to

1:08:20

the episode. Better Tomorrow is produced by

1:08:22

me, Hannah Brown, and Legos Creative. Our

1:08:25

producer is Andrew Stromer. Our

1:08:27

show is recorded, engineered, and edited by

1:08:29

the Legos Creative team. Remember

1:08:32

to follow Better Tomorrow wherever you get your

1:08:34

podcast so you don't miss the next episode.

1:08:36

And don't forget to rate and review us

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on socials at Hannah Brown and you

1:08:44

can stay updated on all things Better

1:08:46

Tomorrow on our Instagram at Better Tomorrow

1:08:49

and your TikToks Better Tomorrow podcast. Hi,

1:08:58

it's LeVar Burton. I've got a brand

1:09:00

new podcast called Sound Detectives. It's a

1:09:02

comedy adventure about the magic and mystery

1:09:05

of sound and it's fun for the

1:09:07

whole family. In this world, sounds have

1:09:09

gone mysteriously missing. Follow Detective Hunch and

1:09:11

his sidekick, Audie the Ear, as they

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track them down and find the nefarious

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sound swindler. All with a little help

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from me, LeVar Burton. You can listen

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to Sound Detectives on SiriusXM, Pandora, or

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wherever you get your podcast. And don't

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never miss an episode. Sound

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good to you? Sounds great to me.