0:00

Hey guys, a quick one

0:03

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0:32

Enjoy the year. Welcome

0:34

to episode two of the Business in

0:36

Between podcast. This week we're revisiting our

0:39

chat with Dia Nash from 2022 where

0:41

we talked about his transition

0:43

from professional sportsman to business owner. The

0:46

original recording of this episode went for

0:48

two hours with the first 90 minutes

0:50

focused on his upbringing, family and his

0:52

professional career. We're going to

0:54

join the action on the home straight where we

0:56

switch to his business journey and it's a compelling

0:58

30 minutes. Dion talks about his

1:01

first job at a cricket and his idea

1:03

to sell bottled water, how he became marketing

1:05

director for 42 Below and his journey working

1:07

for Bacardi, why he left and how he

1:09

had the courage to start his own business,

1:12

Triumph and Disaster. There are

1:14

so many gems in this one and

1:16

Dion is such a thoughtful bloke. We

1:18

talk about taking action and breaking stereotypes,

1:20

how everyone is bluffing it, respecting where

1:23

you are informed, how a life with

1:25

no regrets is a bullshit life and

1:27

much, much more. If you love

1:29

this 30 minutes and want to listen to the full it,

1:31

you can find it in our back catalogue on the Between

1:33

2B's channel. We're also super

1:36

stoked to tell you about the business we've

1:38

built. If you'd like to hire one of

1:40

our incredible guests to speak or MC your

1:42

event, check out our epic lineup at b2bspeakers.co.nz

1:44

and get in touch. And while

1:46

there, sign up to our weekly newsletter with all

1:48

the biggest news from us and the podcasting space

1:50

in New Zealand. The

2:01

second act which is business and I'm

2:03

really fascinated about this part. We were

2:06

talking about whether to talk about it

2:08

at the top because I really

2:10

am interested in those years when

2:12

you retire from cricket and

2:15

then you embark on the next chapter of your life.

2:18

Now you've built this incredibly successful brand

2:20

which is kind of the second half

2:22

of the second act right. But I'm

2:24

really interested in those early years of

2:26

getting into the corporate scene and being

2:29

a salesman and how that actually started.

2:32

And whether you failed as hard in the

2:34

business sector as you did, sales hard has

2:36

gone the right word. But had

2:38

those same challenges that you did in sport.

2:41

Yeah I mean. In business. Yeah

2:43

I mean I fell into business. I got

2:45

lucky and that's one thing about being well

2:48

known. You get some

2:50

opportunities that you wouldn't normally have got right.

2:53

And I definitely got, I fell in with the guys from 42 Below.

2:57

Mike Baker and Jeff Ross and Shane

2:59

McKinnon and you know Steve Stinson. Those

3:01

guys who were standing up and made

3:03

that business. So they brought me

3:05

in and I ended up running the water brand which

3:08

was 420 and I bought 25%

3:10

of it. And I got put

3:12

into a management role really quickly

3:15

having no skills, no knowledge of

3:17

business. Was it you know how

3:19

to sell water by the way? Yeah I met the guys, I

3:21

met one of the guys at a gym on

3:24

a Friday. Shane, Shane

3:26

McKinnon and he said what are you

3:28

doing yourself? And I was like, I

3:30

was actually at a loose end. I'd

3:33

been doing a bit of TV and I didn't know what I was doing.

3:35

So I was like, well I'm gonna, my

3:38

father would come and spring on the farm. So

3:40

I was like, oh Dad's got to spring on

3:42

his thumb so I'm gonna bottle the water and sell

3:44

it. He was like really? Because

3:46

we wanted to sell water too. Was that through? I

3:48

sort of thought about it. And he goes why don't

3:50

you bring your business plan in on Monday and we'll

3:52

have a look at it. And

3:55

see if we can wait together. And I was like, yeah. It

3:58

was a great idea. It was a great idea. like the

4:00

headmaster's office. He left that conversation

4:02

and then, why, red, what's a business plan? Red, I

4:04

was in bed, and everyone's doing it, and I was

4:06

like, shit, I better write a business plan for this

4:08

thing. This guy wants to hit the semi on Monday.

4:11

But anyway, so yeah,

4:14

I did that. We saw them, they changed it

4:16

one lot of over, there's a fan, put it

4:18

to one side, and we went, okay, well, why

4:20

don't we start at the beginning then? Okay, be

4:22

honest. We'll

4:25

know it better if we build it together. Yeah,

4:27

good idea, Shane. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

4:31

so, oh, you

4:33

know, but it was fortuitous,

4:35

but also, Business 101, you

4:37

know, like inside in a

4:39

really young entrepreneurial business of

4:42

guys just going for it, and, you know,

4:44

that was just some inspiring, right? And being

4:47

around Grant Baker, who's just a

4:49

brilliant business mind, Jeff, who's just

4:51

a great marketer and brand, and

4:54

Steve Stinchere, who's a fantastic English guy, and

4:56

Shane, who's a great salesman, and

4:59

just this sort of like hot bit of talent, but

5:01

also egos, you know, there was difficulties with that, which

5:03

I recognized straight away, and was like, should not all

5:05

these guys get on? They've been

5:08

here, I've been in this environment

5:10

before, you know, and so I was

5:12

able to live and breathe, and then Byron bounced

5:14

around it, and where

5:16

some of the other younger guys in there with

5:18

me were, you know,

5:21

getting stuck with some of the politics, or trying to work out

5:23

here, and I was just like, so

5:26

I was able to probably manage that

5:28

better, and therefore enjoy

5:30

it more, but also not get threatened by anyone,

5:33

or not be a threat to

5:35

anyone, which was great. And then also,

5:37

I got picked up, and it's kind

5:39

of, you know, I wasn't a great

5:41

salesman, I got corporate sales for vodka

5:44

just for four months before they, well, I

5:46

was writing the new business plan, and

5:49

so nothing breaks your pride, like, you

5:51

know, some guy who didn't think he

5:53

had much of your bowling anyway, listening

5:55

to your whole 20-minute pitch for some

5:57

corporate followers of vodka around Christmas time,

5:59

and then... then just going, you know what, nah.

6:02

Thanks to those days, I'm sure I got one.

6:06

So it was a really good lesson in

6:08

just learning how to ask for the sale

6:10

and try to close a deal and all

6:12

those basics. And in

6:14

sport is different to business.

6:16

In sport, as I said,

6:19

you create a bubble around

6:21

you to protect yourself, whereas

6:23

in business you

6:25

have to go out and bring people into your

6:27

circle. You have to go and find it and

6:29

bring people in. Nothing's coming to you. So

6:32

it's a complete inverse of what you've actually

6:34

been doing. And for me,

6:37

I'm not a bit... I

6:39

actually am one of those extroverted introverts. I think I'm an

6:41

extrovert when I need to be. If

6:45

I need to be life of the party or

6:47

if I want to... If I'm out in the

6:49

middle of a cricket field and I need to

6:51

do that. But for the majority of the time,

6:53

I'm very much an introvert. I'd rather just sit

6:55

and read a book or be quiet and draw

6:58

or whatever. So

7:03

to go out and have to be

7:05

an extrovert on a more mellow basis,

7:08

I found that really hard because it's

7:10

like you constantly having to enjoy people.

7:13

Bernie enjoys people. I've realised

7:15

I don't really enjoy people.

7:18

My wife loves people. She just loves people.

7:20

She just loves being around them. And

7:23

it's a great skill. She's taught me

7:25

how to be better at that. Thanks

7:28

for putting on a good face tonight. I

7:31

do enjoy people but I enjoy my

7:33

own time. I'm

7:36

just looking at some sort of... I

7:39

can relate to that. He invites me to his house all the time. Sometimes

7:43

I just enjoy my own company. Yeah,

7:46

yeah. I

7:48

should have bought more shoes. and

8:00

you're working for four years, three years

8:02

with 42 Below working with the guys,

8:04

in four years with Bacardi, so seven

8:06

or so they end up

8:08

being sort of like, they end up through, you

8:11

know, some sort of like Bullshitting

8:14

everyone to the degree, ended up

8:16

getting, being marketing director for 42

8:18

Below under Bacardi So

8:21

traveling, which is a big job It

8:26

was a huge, huge brand. Yeah, at the

8:28

time it was it was a definitely It

8:30

was definitely like it was, you know, there's

8:32

me the CEO and CFO We

8:34

were the top three and they come there one and

8:36

it was like that's a fee job. Yeah, yeah, yeah

8:39

That blew people's minds. Yeah, it was big

8:41

It was big but we our job was

8:43

to take it over and make it assimilate into

8:46

the Bacardi business And

8:48

I would say that largely we

8:50

failed that if I'm honest and

8:53

but there were so many lessons in there You

8:56

know just understanding I remember the day sitting in

8:58

a Corporate office in Miami and

9:01

there were all these guys in there with

9:03

double MBAs, you know And

9:05

I just remember sitting around thinking shit

9:07

just shut up. Don't let them assume

9:09

I've got an MBA You know, don't

9:11

get engaged. So the conversation, I guess

9:13

mumble BA You know But

9:23

anyway, I remember sitting there and there's this

9:25

really intimidating vice president of the whole business

9:27

and there's this super impressive guy

9:30

Anyway, talk to all of these guys heads

9:32

of these businesses. I've cut down the marketing

9:34

directors people at my

9:36

level of bigger brands, you

9:38

know, we're a small brand but I was in the

9:40

room anyway and I Remember

9:43

speaking for about 45 minutes one day and

9:45

then eventually I was like Dude,

9:49

this needs just totally Talking

9:52

around the circle and totally contradict myself and

9:54

I was like and nobody's picked up on

9:56

it and I was like, oh

9:58

my god They don't

10:00

know what he's, no one's followed what he's saying. I was

10:02

like, should I follow, I know what

10:04

he's talking about. I know what he sees. And

10:07

I was like, there's a big gap here, you

10:09

know, that he's, and I was

10:11

like, shit. And I just remember thinking,

10:13

oh, I understand the language now. You know,

10:15

it was just that penny a drop that

10:17

I'd been around it enough to understand the

10:19

corporate language and lingo and what

10:21

they were all meaning. And then it was

10:23

like, oh, shit, I've worked my way through

10:25

from sales all the way out. And

10:28

I understand the business. So I know what I know he

10:30

doesn't know what he's saying. I

10:32

know the inaccuracies and what he's saying, but the

10:35

other guys don't because they will just learn it

10:37

through their way up. And I was like, shit,

10:39

that's a, that gave me loads

10:41

of confidence because then it was like, oh,

10:43

I don't need to worry anymore. Everyone's bluffing

10:45

it. You know? And so that

10:48

was a huge breakthrough. And I think, you

10:51

know, learning that quite late probably, because I'd have

10:53

been in my mid

10:55

late 30s with it. Well,

10:58

there's similarities between that. You

11:01

talked about the Lord's kind of experience of,

11:04

you know, like that first big performance and

11:07

then like realizing you understood. Are there similarities

11:09

between those? Yeah. Well, I

11:11

think everything's licensed about confidence, isn't it? So you're

11:13

trying to gain genuine and a

11:16

confidence. And there's truth in that statement,

11:18

fake it until you make it right.

11:20

And probably I've never been very good at faking

11:23

it. I've had to know it, you know? But

11:26

I think, whereas I

11:28

think maybe a guy like Jeff Wilson was

11:30

probably better at faking it, you know? Maybe

11:33

he knew it as well too, but really quickly.

11:35

But, you know, I've often marveled at some players

11:37

who just seem to sort of be able to

11:39

have this sort of like harder

11:41

shell of like, whereas I don't even think

11:43

things or want to know and get on

11:45

and lift up and understand it, you know?

11:48

And I think sometimes that slows you down or it's a

11:50

longer path to get to it. I

11:53

do love the internalizing of something so

11:55

that I'm bulletproof. I know this, so

11:57

I can do it. I

12:00

still fuck it up, it's not going to be good enough,

12:02

but at least I know it inside out. So

12:05

for me that was an important process

12:07

and I think getting confidence, but I

12:09

also think I learned in sport that

12:11

to respect form. I

12:13

think when

12:16

you're young and you slip

12:18

into form, the zone if you like, when

12:20

you're playing sport, the first few

12:23

times it happens you sort of twist it up against

12:25

the wall. What I mean by that

12:28

is you get to batting form, you're just seeing

12:30

the ball really, and then the young guy will

12:32

just get in the nets and just smash everyone

12:34

out of the nets for six lengths and just

12:36

play shots all around. Then all of a sudden

12:38

one day he won't be able to hit the

12:40

ball at all and he's got all his bad

12:42

habits, he's taught himself and well and behold he's

12:44

out of form, right? And then it's just long

12:46

row back to correct everything and get it.

12:49

Whereas the older you get, the

12:51

more you realise once you get

12:53

into form, critique that like it's your

12:55

life. You know, like don't, and you turn

12:57

back to basics, you respect everything there, you

12:59

just do the basics and go over those

13:01

drills and try and stay in that state

13:04

as long as possible because

13:06

that's what you need to perform at

13:08

the top level. And so I sort

13:10

of feel like that knowledge

13:12

and stuff, it helped because

13:15

when I realise I'm here now

13:17

and I've maybe worked harder, you know, I

13:19

was like okay now I know it, now

13:22

what's the next thing I need to know, how do I

13:24

get better and do my job better? Well

13:26

it's soon after that epiphany that you had

13:28

the meeting in Brooklyn when the guy pulled

13:31

out the moisturiser at the table. Yeah. Kind

13:33

of. I'd already decided to leave so they

13:35

asked me to move to London and I'd moved over to London

13:38

and I just saw a lot. I'm selling, there's a

13:40

tough life selling booze, you know, you're out in the

13:42

bars and restaurants a lot and I just

13:45

had a young family at that stage. I'd

13:47

lived in London before. I

13:49

moved over, found a flat, had this great big

13:51

paying job and I just thought, I got on

13:54

a plane the way home and I thought I'm

13:56

going to be on a plane six days a

13:58

week, travelling all over the year. and

14:00

he'll be in London by himself with a young family.

14:03

And I was like, and you know what, the only thing that really

14:06

scares this shit out of me is doing my own

14:08

business and staying my own brand. And so I thought,

14:10

if I don't do it now, I'm never gonna do

14:13

it. And I was

14:15

29, I think. At 88, you were

14:17

eight. And so

14:19

I just sort of, I flew home

14:21

and I literally agreed to the flat,

14:23

I'd agreed to the package. I

14:26

just reneged on everyone, I said, sorry guys, I'm not

14:28

coming. And they were like, what?

14:31

And I was just sort of

14:33

glad because then it was like,

14:36

yeah, well, actually I'd go and six weeks down,

14:38

that's a thing. So then I played, my last

14:41

meeting was in Miami. Oh,

14:43

actually New York, actually. Went

14:45

into a meeting in New York and there's

14:48

this young guy using moisturizer and

14:51

hand cream, and there's a woman's hand cream.

14:53

And I was like,

14:55

man, I know those products because

14:57

I've used them all when I was playing cricket.

14:59

And I recalled on the way home on the

15:02

plane, there was this one day when

15:04

Ken, rather so this captain, was a target and

15:07

Ken was a bat thrower. If he got out

15:09

early, he'd come in and throw the bat. And

15:12

at that stage at Carrodsbrook, he'd go underneath the

15:14

stand and then upstairs was the chain rooms. So

15:16

we'd bowled all day. And then

15:19

I was in the shower having bowled

15:22

and all the guys were down

15:24

watching. Ken opens the bat and gets out early.

15:27

I'm in the changing room,

15:29

giving him a shower, putting on my moisturizer

15:31

after, you know, my face. And then

15:34

unaware Ken's got out and the door swings

15:36

open and the back goes flying across the

15:38

dressing room, smashes into the wall into his

15:40

kit bag. And he takes

15:42

one look at me as I'm sort of mid

15:44

down stroke, putting on my moisturizer and I'm like,

15:47

fuck, this is gonna be bad. And

15:49

he goes, and he just looks at me with

15:52

this quizzical look on his face and goes, what

15:54

are you putting on sunscreen at this time of

15:56

day for? And I was like, never

15:58

be too safe Ken. I

16:00

rubbed in this moisturiser, shoved it in the

16:02

deepest corner of my bag and then just

16:04

like thought, eh, dodged a bullet there, you

16:07

know. But I remember laughing to myself because

16:09

it was so far out of the frame

16:11

of reference for a man to use moisturiser

16:13

in the deepest salve of the day that

16:15

it was like, he kept getting me a

16:17

record of it. And

16:19

so yeah, I only had none. We'll

16:22

be right back after this short break. Yeah,

16:30

but those thoughts started

16:32

to form the idea, I guess, of

16:34

like, well, shit, if I could

16:36

make the products that I

16:38

used and new work for a cricketer skin

16:40

in the sun, you know,

16:42

like cleanse the face instead of soap and

16:45

moisturise it and then sunscreen properly and

16:47

then wash it properly and then shave

16:49

well. I was like,

16:52

well, that's a range, you know. And I

16:54

thought, well, if I can make that in some

16:56

cool packaging, like we did at 42 Glars, I

16:58

was like, well, fuck, that's got to appeal more

17:00

than, you know, Clinique for Men or something, you

17:03

know. Yeah. So

17:05

that was sort of the gist of the idea and I

17:07

had a little bit of money because I'd taken redundancy and I

17:09

was like, right, well, you

17:11

know, that was the thing. So

17:13

I went and set that up

17:15

and then

17:17

of course had instant feelings

17:21

of regret that I was about to come out of a

17:23

small window. That was really the

17:25

job. That was the street food I

17:27

even had of, oh, really? Was

17:29

about to go out of the window because I

17:31

used moisturiser now. Seriously, was that like a genuine

17:33

consideration? Like you said in jest, but it wasn't.

17:36

No, it was. It was like, I mean, so

17:38

I made, I was committed to it

17:40

and I saw the opportunity. I thought, no,

17:43

this is an opportunity people are changing, you

17:45

know. And back then there was a thing

17:47

called metrosexual. Metrosexual, yeah. And it was like

17:49

this really picky term and I remember thinking,

17:51

you know, fuck, no, Stephen Fleming, he's a

17:53

metrosexual. I'm not a metrosexual. And

17:56

we were like, it was like, you know, that

17:58

whole feeling of like, I wouldn't. I

18:01

wouldn't want to be called

18:03

a metrosecical because it felt

18:05

somehow wrong. And so I

18:08

thought, if I can change that, make

18:10

it more natural for people to use it. And

18:13

so that was the sort of gist of

18:15

it. And then one day, where

18:18

it all became real one day, as I was

18:20

trying to, because I thought, well, the way to

18:22

get around this is my

18:24

grandfather used to be pots and shade creams, and they

18:27

were all cool. You know, raw leaves, creams and stuff.

18:29

I was like, if I can make it look like

18:31

that, that'll feel cool and old school. And

18:34

then I thought, well, maybe if I make

18:36

it about shaving, because most men shave, and

18:38

you learn shaving from your dad, and I

18:40

was like, well, that's handed down advice. And

18:42

then I was thinking, well, if handed down

18:44

advice is a good starting point, because it's

18:47

generational. And then I just looked

18:49

up from my desk as I was sort of toying my

18:51

eye on that. And there's the prime, the Rudyard Kipling of

18:53

foam. And my dad had given it to me when I

18:55

was about 13 or 14. And

18:58

we weren't really talking very much. And

19:00

so he'd given me this plaque, and I kept

19:03

it on my wall in my office. And now I just looked up,

19:05

and I was like, try it and just ask

19:07

her. And I was like, fuck. It's

19:09

handed down advice at home. And I was like, dad

19:12

gave me the poem. It's handed down advice. And I was

19:14

like, this was handed down advice. And I was like, fuck.

19:16

And then I went online and was like,

19:18

surely it's not available. You know, I think that was

19:21

on trademarked or whatever. And I was like, no,

19:23

it's all available. So I was like, trademarked, New Zealand, trademarked,

19:25

trademarked. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so then I was like, and

19:27

did it all that in like a day. And I was

19:29

like, fuck. I think I

19:32

need to do this now, you know? I've got

19:34

this great name, and I've got

19:36

this great story that's all true and legitimate.

19:38

And it's an idea that I think can

19:40

sell, and it won't be all picky. So

19:43

anyway, that was the whole

19:45

thing. And then Karen

19:48

Walker had been on the board of 42 below. And

19:50

I just thought, well, I got the first

19:53

round of products. I remember the first day I spent a

19:55

week, because we sold our house to start it. Then, actually,

19:57

I got the first round of products. and

20:00

then get some cash out and

20:02

do that. So we sold

20:04

the house and downsized and all that and then

20:06

I remember spending $50,000 on

20:09

plastic bottles. Oh,

20:12

just, and I just like, and

20:15

I just remember walking around onto me just

20:17

like sick in my stomach. Just going, fuck,

20:21

what have I done? You know, like,

20:23

fuck, $50,000, all I've

20:25

got is a whole bunch of empty plastic packages.

20:29

Nothing to show for it, you know? And

20:31

I just remember, I couldn't breathe a

20:33

word to Bernie. I was just like,

20:36

I'm just gonna fucking front this, you

20:38

know, to get through this. Anyway,

20:40

so I stood there and then, I

20:44

remember making the first range of products, putting

20:46

them in this packaging, and I

20:48

just thought, you know what, before I do this, I

20:50

need to get, so I took it

20:52

over to see Karen Walker, and

20:55

she had the department store, and

20:57

Karen's super intimidating lady, you know,

20:59

very, very earnest and strong

21:02

with this person. So

21:05

I thought, well, if she tells me it's shit, I'll

21:07

stop. And if she tells me it's okay, I'll

21:10

carry on. And so anyway, I walk into this

21:12

meeting and she just

21:14

takes one, smells them and smells all the

21:16

products as I'm telling me who I smell.

21:19

It's like a dragon's bend. Yeah. And

21:22

she just goes, they're on, I

21:24

love them. I would use these products. The

21:26

smells are amazing, da-da-da-da-da. And then, so

21:28

that took about five minutes. And then for the

21:30

next hour, she just brainstormed with me around,

21:33

right, well, how are we gonna do it? What are

21:36

we, who are you talking to? And what's the, you

21:38

know, what's the idea? How are you gonna, you know,

21:40

people don't have any time in their time, so you

21:42

get to look at rituals. And

21:44

it was just this really great hour.

21:46

And Karen Walker then

21:48

said, oh, and we'll take it in the department store.

21:51

So I walked out having my first store endorsement

21:53

from Karen Walker, and the now

21:55

coaching session. And it's free to

21:57

watch, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

22:00

So I was like, wow, that worked

22:02

out well. And that, but I, so

22:04

I'm always forever grateful to her for

22:06

A, giving me the time, the endorsement,

22:08

but it was endless getting

22:10

into her store. Because then I was able to go

22:13

to Smith and Cowery and say, oh, I'm already in

22:15

the apartment store. Karen Walker's taking it, you know? And

22:17

so then it was like, oh, you know, just

22:20

made life so much easier. But

22:23

also, I think her saying, I love

22:25

the products and I can tell they're

22:27

quality products and I would use them,

22:29

gave me that, again, that confidence and that,

22:31

and I believe that, oh no, I've got

22:34

this, I know what I'm doing. I do

22:36

know what I'm doing. Oh my, you know,

22:38

because I'd have quite a hands-on approach and

22:40

like, I've been, when developing the products, I've

22:42

been really hard on the developers

22:44

because it was like, no, that's not how it should be.

22:46

It should be like this. Because lots of

22:50

the industry wants to make what they're already making

22:52

and sprinkle on a bit of different fragrance and

22:54

a bit of different thing and, you know, fairy

22:56

dust. And then it's like, well, here you go.

22:59

Because there's scaleability of that. I was

23:01

like, no, that's not good enough. That's what men have

23:03

been getting for the last 20 years. If

23:06

I do that, I'll fail, you know? So I said, I want

23:08

to start again. I want all New

23:11

Zealand volcanic ash and I want all this

23:14

green clay and kaolin and kauka

23:16

and all that. And people

23:18

were like, you're crazy. There can't be that. And

23:20

now everyone's doing it. You know, it's like,

23:23

you know, that's it. So

23:25

now, so 11 years later. Is

23:27

it 11? 11 years. 11, now 11 years. From

23:31

the outside, it looks like things are going

23:33

very well. Was it a natural growth? Was

23:35

it year after year you got bigger and

23:38

bigger? I mean, things are going well. We've

23:40

been, we're profitable business and we're growing. We've

23:42

got like, you know, about 10 of us

23:44

working for the business. It's

23:47

not doing well enough, you know? Like I

23:49

want it to be faster and more. And

23:51

I won't view it as a success until

23:53

I've managed to sell it or,

23:55

you know, or get it to a size that

23:58

I can step out of it. And

24:00

we're still well short of

24:02

that. So I've got pretty

24:04

aggressive three or five year plan. It needs to

24:07

be, I'm 50 now, I don't wanna be, I

24:10

figure I've got three to five really good

24:12

years and then probably a few more after

24:14

that. But at 60, I've

24:17

watched my older brothers and sisters, you run

24:19

out of energy for stuff, right? So I

24:21

need to make it work now. So there's a

24:23

bit of still that internal pressure. And

24:26

it needs to be bigger and it needs to be

24:28

more overseas. It's a niche

24:31

within a niche. It needs to be an overseas market.

24:34

We're building, we've managed to traverse the

24:36

COVID thing really well. We're online brand,

24:39

we've grown a lot. And I'm still

24:41

buzzed and excited about lots of parts

24:43

of the business. And

24:45

there's so much potential still. But

24:47

it's one of those things I think, there's

24:50

always those things that build like pressure, like that

24:52

first game at Lords or meeting

24:55

in the Miami. And

24:57

it's all, well, this one is probably,

24:59

I need to sell a business at some

25:01

stage or I need to build it to a point where

25:04

I can step out of the business. One of those

25:06

two scenarios needs to happen for me to feel like

25:08

I've proved myself to myself. So

25:14

there's always, it's never ending, I

25:16

think. Are you

25:18

as proud of your business, of your business

25:20

success as you are, as your cricket? Do you

25:22

ever think like that? Yeah,

25:24

I am. Yeah, I definitely

25:27

am. No, I'm very proud

25:29

of the business. But like I said,

25:31

it's a job unfinished. I

25:34

still have regrets about my cricket career. I'm

25:36

very proud of my career, I'm proud of

25:39

the way I played. I'm

25:41

proud of the way that I didn't try

25:44

to have a career. I played with my

25:46

heart on my sleeve. And that's,

25:48

I think, I wouldn't play it any

25:50

other way. I

25:55

don't think there's any safety at that level. I think you've

25:57

got to just go for it. And

25:59

if you don't get... lucky and

26:01

stay injury free, maybe you get to

26:03

have a long fruitful career

26:06

that you get to call a career. I

26:08

probably didn't have that. I had some

26:10

great one off games and

26:13

was part of teams and helped

26:16

raise those teams. And

26:19

part of me is like, well, I threw

26:21

a bit of bad luck and maybe a

26:24

bit of bad self-management. I probably

26:26

should have done more. So

26:30

you always have that little regret, but at

26:32

the same time, I don't

26:34

regret the way I did it. I wouldn't go

26:37

back and change any of my, I'd own up

26:39

to the pot every time. I'd probably

26:43

still take the money over Oxford. A

26:53

life with no regrets is a bullshit life. I

26:56

think that's the one thing I definitely

26:58

believe is like you're

27:01

always represented with

27:03

paths that are diverged and you've got

27:05

to take one. And

27:08

you know,

27:11

friends or girlfriends or business

27:13

decisions or careers or all

27:17

manner of choices, you're always choosing

27:19

and you're always cutting one path

27:21

after another. And if any person

27:23

says they've got no regrets, it's

27:25

just bullshitting either themselves or you

27:27

or both. And so like, it's

27:30

the dealing with the

27:32

what ifs and having the coping strategies to

27:34

go, well, I don't want to choose this

27:36

path. So those are the ones I'm going

27:38

to live with and commit

27:41

to. That's the sort of

27:43

the skill, I think, and just realising that

27:45

you're not dwelling on

27:47

the regret, you know, but also not

27:49

trying to ignore it because should

27:52

take a special person to never

27:54

have a lot to make decisions, never have a lot

27:56

back or maybe don't make the wrong decision. Yeah, it's

27:59

an incredible. journey like either of those

28:01

two stories were worthy of the podcast you know

28:03

we could have talked to all two hours about

28:05

the business we could have talked about the cricket

28:07

we've been done two hours and i feel like

28:09

we could go for another hour

28:12

easily but we are going to start wrap things

28:14

up i always like to throw the shake we've

28:16

always got a few little bits and pieces stored

28:18

away just to close off oh man i don't

28:20

even know where to begin like i always know

28:22

the mark of a great episode is where i

28:24

feel like i haven't interjected and

28:26

i've just listened and like

28:29

that that's kind of the part of it

28:31

and one of the things i take away and it was

28:33

even before we started speaking but how thoughtful

28:35

you are and how reflective

28:38

you are of a

28:40

period of time that was very very different and

28:43

we've all lived through that period of time and we

28:45

all know without having to say what it was like

28:48

particularly what it meant to be a man yeah and

28:50

how you are now and

28:53

how comfortable you are now having

28:56

learned from those experiences and wanting to make things is

28:58

that kind of i feel like a ramble but is

29:00

that like an accurate kind of take

29:02

on it if i sit here opposite you and i

29:04

look at you and you seem so content and so

29:06

assured and so comfortable

29:08

with everything that's happened and if

29:11

your life is the accumulation of those experiences it's a

29:13

pretty cool life well i'm still

29:15

excited about the future and i

29:17

see that you know i have a part

29:19

to play in the future because i'm because

29:22

a my kids

29:24

are at an age my oldest is 15, middle 13

29:26

and you know like they

29:29

need to stay

29:31

in the game and be relevant

29:34

enough and

29:36

busy enough that they

29:38

can see how to live

29:40

because it gives back to that kiwetunoka if i

29:42

if i tell them how to do something they're

29:45

not going to hear it but they'll want to follow it

29:47

and they'll but if they can just continue

29:49

to live and be relevant and improve

29:52

myself and try keep trying to

29:54

improve i think you

29:57

know you learn off watching your

29:59

parents they I always remember

30:01

with my father, dad

30:03

was a farmer in Timbermilla, and

30:06

so I grew up, my holidays jobs were either

30:08

picking squash or working in Timbermilla, and I was

30:10

like, fuck, give me a cricket bat, I've got

30:13

to get out of here. And

30:17

so, but I just remember his

30:19

work ethic was just, he just

30:21

worked so hard. And I remember

30:24

thinking, and he always, he probably

30:26

played enough a bit, but he always said

30:28

I was playing, you know, he was off

30:30

playing cricket again, why are you working? And

30:33

it was like, and it wasn't until I

30:35

went to 42 below and finished cricket and

30:37

started working alongside other people, and I was

30:39

like, fuck, I'm a really hard worker, I've

30:41

got a massive work ethic, you know, and I

30:43

was like, fuck, I didn't realise

30:45

because I was playing for 10 years of cricket that

30:47

all of that time I was working, I didn't

30:50

realise that, you know, I didn't think of it that

30:52

way. But

30:54

I also look back and I'm like, I

30:57

learned that off my father, because that's what he did.

30:59

And so, and he never told, in

31:01

fact, he did try to tell me about

31:03

it, I didn't listen, you

31:05

know, revolted against him. But

31:08

so, in terms of like

31:10

answering, I'm now, I'm re-embling,

31:12

but I think the point I'm trying to

31:14

make is, you just have

31:16

to live it forward, you know, like it's, you're

31:19

a long time dead and

31:21

life's too rich, there's too much to

31:23

learn and too much to get involved

31:25

in to dwell on

31:27

what you might have done or

31:29

stand on ceremony or, you

31:32

know, expect more respect than you should be,

31:35

or demand more respect than you should be given, you know, like

31:37

I think, you know, you've just

31:39

got to try to keep evolving and

31:41

getting better. And you know,

31:43

this whole mental health that we're all going through

31:46

right now, I would hate

31:48

to be a young guy now with, or

31:50

girl, you know, with the devices

31:53

that you've got, like one

31:56

thing I've learned is, you know, that Laura

31:58

McGoldrick story, you know, we

32:00

all have that experience of someone

32:02

would do a nice post where you do

32:04

a great podcast and you get a

32:07

hundred people say awesome podcasts and you

32:09

get a person say what a shit and

32:11

it's the

32:13

one that one outweighs all the hundred

32:15

right and it's like social media is

32:17

like that on steroids right so you

32:19

got these young people growing

32:22

up trying to live

32:24

their lives like and putting that out into

32:26

the world and

32:28

just getting this negative sort

32:30

of loop of feedback right because that's

32:32

one negative to probably 500 podcasts

32:36

and they're always going to get the negative

32:39

so we've got this we've built this world of this terrible

32:42

sort of psychological damage

32:44

that it does to young people and

32:46

so you know like my

32:49

thing right now is just to try to

32:51

give build some coping strategies for my kids

32:54

and going and myself you

32:56

know show them show them

32:58

hey you got to be robust you

33:00

know that's the key so I think

33:02

I'm still trying to learn how to

33:04

be robust and that I've got there

33:06

yet. Yeah I think you are I

33:08

think you're very wise like especially it's

33:10

so thoughtful so insightful thank you

33:13

so much for your time thank you for your whiskey yeah

33:15

we'll wait to catch up for the rest of the story sometime.

33:18

Yeah no no all good things

33:20

guys also the megaboat so thanks for travelling

33:23

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