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Hello, Tony Street here. We Need To

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Bye. Bye. I'm

1:29

Tony Street, a former doctor in New Zealand. I'm

1:33

a senior in his youth, surfing without knowing how

1:35

to swim, the obstacles he's overcome, his

1:41

path into medicine, and the challenges of being

1:43

a moldy doctor in New Zealand, the most

1:46

incredible stories from his ultra-marathon missions around the world

1:49

and the logistics of

1:51

working towards this year's goal. Inia

1:53

is a candid, Kiwi bloke whose honest sensibility,

1:55

humor, and grounded nature was first.

2:00

wherever you get your podcasts from, or watch the

2:02

video on YouTube. If you'd like

2:04

to hire one of our guests to speak

2:06

at your function or event, flick us a

2:08

message by going to b2bspeakers.co.nz. This

2:12

episode was brought to you from the Export

2:15

Beer Garden studio. Enjoy. Inia

2:25

Raumati. Welcome

2:27

to Between Two Beers. Kia ora.

2:30

We are very excited to have you in

2:33

the Export Beer Garden studio today. It's a

2:35

couple of firsts for us. It's our first

2:37

record in the new studio. Those watching on

2:39

YouTube will see the beautiful surrounds. And

2:42

the first time we've had a dog in

2:44

studio. We've got Doug asleep under the table.

2:47

What's Doug's story? Yeah,

2:49

so he's sort of like my therapy support dog so

2:51

that I don't do anything stupid. And the, yeah, the

2:54

missus has sort of trained him that if I

2:56

do anything or say anything too political, he's

2:59

just gonna give me a little bit of a nudge. A

3:01

little nip under the table. Yeah, but no, no, he's a

3:03

rescue dog. Yeah, so

3:06

the missus is a vet and she works

3:08

with like retired working dogs and other organisations.

3:11

And unfortunately he was a young fella that was

3:13

sort of just beaten by a young shepherd when

3:15

he was, you know, he's a puppy. And

3:17

I think it was a young shepherd's old man actually said, oh,

3:19

you know, you gotta uplift this dog. And

3:22

Vicky grabbed him and trained him up

3:24

and it's taken a few years, but now he's

3:26

like quite comfortable. You know, he's reasonably comfortable around blokes.

3:28

Not that much, but seems to be all right with

3:30

you two. He was good with us. He was good

3:33

with us. Yeah, that's a bit surprising really, you know.

3:35

And he's very comfortable asleep at our feet here. So

3:38

it's nice. We'd heard that he might let off a

3:40

few farts which would let Shea off the hook. Yeah.

3:42

He lets loose and doesn't have anyone to blame. Well,

3:44

that's the other reason I brought him, you know, in

3:46

case like, yeah, I let off a few. I

3:49

can just blame it on him. It's just nervous energy.

3:51

Yeah, it's all a new space for us. Doug. We

3:55

have got a crackerette lined up today. Your

3:57

partner, Vicky, put us in touch. with

4:00

just about everyone you know. I think at

4:02

this point, we might know the Inia story

4:04

better than you. But I

4:06

wanted to start with a really

4:08

interesting concept that I've not heard

4:11

of before. And it was from

4:13

your friend and jujitsu teacher, Bex,

4:15

who is a badass from the

4:18

recent small man in a research I've done

4:20

there. But she said that you come to

4:22

jujitsu to have a rest, which is equally

4:24

impressive and hard for the rest of them

4:26

to hear. But then she

4:28

started talking about how you like type

4:30

two fun. And I sort

4:32

of stopped there, I was like, what, I've never heard that before.

4:35

And I was like, what type two fun, do you know

4:37

about this? And she's like, oh, no, I thought everyone's kind of

4:39

knew about it. So can you tell us what type two

4:41

fun is? Yeah, I guess I first

4:43

really sort of heard that term when I was in

4:45

the military, people were talking about type two fun. I

4:47

was like, what is this? And you

4:49

can actually Google it up and it's different types of

4:51

one to four or whatever of fun. And I think

4:53

type two fun is sort of like that

4:55

shit when you're doing it, and

4:57

you don't enjoy it. But then afterwards you're like, hey, that

4:59

was really good, let's do it again. Yeah.

5:02

So it's like those sort of

5:04

things where it really sort of challenges you and you

5:06

want to quit and you get that sort

5:08

of side of it. But then at the end of it, the

5:10

sort of sense of achievements is awesome. And

5:14

the sort of more hard things are

5:16

to do, the more struggle, it's sort of like the more

5:18

the type two fun compared to sort of

5:20

type three, which is like, regardless, you just never

5:23

want to do that shit again. No, I don't know

5:25

the type three. Yeah, the type three, which is like

5:27

the next step up where it's like, nah, I almost

5:29

died, I'm not gonna do that again. Yeah,

5:31

she described it as kind of like a

5:33

search for darkness. And I don't know what

5:35

percentage of people enjoy type two fun. I

5:37

think I'm lying. I reckon after that definition,

5:40

you're heading towards that type two area. I think

5:42

I definitely hang out in type one. Would

5:45

you say it's a very small percentage that enjoy type

5:47

two fun? No, I reckon that there's a lot of

5:49

people that sort of have that little bit in

5:52

them. Because I

5:55

think a lot of us live in a pretty comfortable sort

5:57

of day to day sort of role. I mean,

5:59

you might be, yeah. stressed or hard

6:01

out with work and stuff but physically you live in

6:03

quite a sort of comfortable zone and I

6:05

think a lot of people crave that just a little bit of a

6:08

little bit of difficulty a little bit of strife or a little

6:10

bit of what Bex and me were discussing

6:12

the other day darkness you miss the darkness a little bit

6:15

and then every now and then you've got to go off and do something

6:17

stupid just to sort of refresh your battery

6:19

or refresh your life a little bit. You

6:21

do hear like particularly like elite athletes

6:24

like in that hurt locker training

6:26

like we had a Dame Lisa Carrington

6:28

on like training way harder than the

6:31

actual competition is and just

6:33

operating in that there that darkness I guess for large

6:35

periods of time. I think that's where we got stuck

6:37

in the rabbit hole conversation the other day me and

6:39

Bex was like you know she's talking about one of

6:41

the other sort of black

6:44

belt some stuff she trains with like missing the

6:46

darkness and it was like yeah I can understand

6:48

that like you you miss that sort of part

6:50

where you're almost breaking you

6:53

know and you miss that sort of stress in that strain

6:55

and that feeling of yep I've

6:57

got to that point where I might not succeed

7:00

or like I suppose with them they might have to tap out

7:02

or they might break or whatever and

7:05

yeah strange people like you just miss it.

7:08

Maybe I am a type

7:10

2 fun but not physical

7:12

darkness but like professional professional

7:15

darkness like I've done some wild

7:18

events like in Papua New Guinea which pushed

7:20

me to absolute breaking point professionally and

7:23

then you come out of it and you go oh

7:25

she was quite cool operating in that chaos

7:27

and trying to hold everything together maybe

7:30

I am a type 2 funner. Would an

7:32

example of type 2 fun be surfing without

7:35

knowing how to swim? No

7:37

that was just stupid is he really? But

7:41

it was all like a mate of mine was well one

7:43

of my best mates you know like Sam and he's um

7:46

he sort of let himself go but a medical school

7:48

like a lot of people do you know you sort

7:50

of get wrapped up in the study and late nights

7:52

and the eating and not really exercising stuff and to

7:54

be fair he packed on a lot of weight you

7:57

know and he just wanted to get back

7:59

into some exercising. I said, oh, let's take up Seth. And I

8:01

was like, OK, if it's going to get

8:03

him out to exercise, I'll do it. So

8:06

we got some really big boards and went out to pee. Everybody

8:11

laughs at those red fruits. We had no idea, eh?

8:13

We had no idea what we'd get into. And literally,

8:15

we just ate sand for about six months,

8:19

constantly getting your sinuses cleaned out, getting smashed and

8:21

the rest of it. And

8:24

then I told them, they go, you keep

8:27

scrambling for the board. I told them I

8:29

couldn't swim. But my

8:31

theory was that you got this massive flotation device,

8:33

which is obviously wrong, strapped to you there. So

8:36

I had to go off and take some swimming lessons after that. I

8:39

think that's a really good insight in some of the stuff we're

8:41

going to cover. I

8:43

spoke to Sam about it. And the recollection was, yeah,

8:45

a couple of weeks we've gone by,

8:48

we're out there. And then I realized he couldn't

8:50

swim. Like, what the fuck are you doing out

8:52

here? While

8:54

we're on surfing as well, we got asked to

8:56

ask you, what

8:58

happens when you drink a large primo

9:00

before you go out into the surf?

9:03

Now, I've got no idea where this is going to

9:05

go. And your reaction tells me. Interesting. I

9:08

think, was it Kelly Slater who put it best like when he

9:10

first dropped into the pipeline and he shat his wetty? No,

9:14

it didn't quite that happen. But I'm probably

9:16

a little bit on the lactose and tolerant

9:18

side if you have too much. And

9:20

you know, you stopped on the way. I

9:22

think was driving out to PR again. And

9:25

the boys stopped off at the petrol station and grabbed some

9:27

primos on the way out. And I had that with

9:29

everybody else. And it must have been

9:32

those windy roads sort of working around your bow and the

9:34

rest of it. And then we got in

9:36

the water. It was like in the water paddling. It was like in

9:38

the water, out of the water. Come on, come on. Whoever

9:42

you wanted on our face. Just

9:44

a niche question for me. What flavor primo

9:46

can you remember? I think it was a

9:48

chocolate actually. Yeah, safe decision. The

9:51

lime would be one that you definitely wouldn't want to get. It

9:54

may not be the only poo story that comes

9:56

out. The creation of this episode. But we'll build

9:58

into that. So,

10:00

all right, we're gonna start painting the picture of

10:02

Inia and we want to take us back to

10:04

the start So we understand that some of your

10:06

formative years were traveling with your parents as your

10:09

dad Tiki Tiki

10:11

Tiki attended different Anglican parishes

10:13

all around the North Island. What

10:16

are your memories of that time? Yeah,

10:19

it's hard. Like my first memories are sort of being like

10:21

one of those little Sposed my

10:23

rykids back in the day, you know running around

10:25

no shoes on shorts, you

10:27

know Whenever there was a

10:29

function on at the Marae, you know You would go around

10:31

and pick up all the old bottles and take them in

10:33

to get like a few seats You know back in those

10:36

days the recycling then try and buy some lollies and stuff

10:38

or Hidden up all the old people for

10:40

like their lollies off the top the row with their table But

10:43

um as soon as we could sort

10:46

of reach the car pedals you deal man sort

10:48

of had you driving if

10:50

anyone from your You

10:55

know and you'd be driving long distances

10:57

because He

11:00

had a huge dioceses to cover and

11:02

we'd just be like, you know helping him drive from one

11:05

small little church in the

11:07

middle of nowhere to the next at times I

11:11

Remember once driving past the turn off for some

11:13

week because he'd sit and he just fall asleep

11:15

as the old man does You know doing some

11:18

underage Sun drive for him. Yeah,

11:20

and then waking up and like he's got quite angry

11:22

because he was like, yeah You know 50 odd case

11:24

down the road had to turn around but

11:27

um Yeah, this is probably some of the

11:29

earliest memories of We

11:32

read that you grew up in poverty, but

11:34

that those weren't your words and sometimes that

11:36

gets a bit distorted Is that how you

11:38

would describe it? No, I wouldn't describe like,

11:40

you know poverty. I think we were Like

11:44

a lot of families, I guess, you know Living,

11:46

you know not in

11:48

poverty, but we weren't like, you know, well

11:51

off. We're just working, you know Anglican

11:53

Mary mission is don't get paid much at all

11:56

and Mum was

11:58

trying to raise all us kids and you

12:00

know, work part-time and stuff as well.

12:02

So there was never, you know, money

12:04

to be thrown around, but we never sort of went

12:07

without the essentials, I guess. It's humble

12:09

upbringing is kind of a better way to paint it. Yeah,

12:13

it's a bit of a better way to paint it. I mean, it was a bit... When

12:15

you compare to other people you went to school

12:17

with, it was obvious. But then,

12:20

because Dad was in the Anglican Mario Mission,

12:23

because we moved house and

12:25

sort of, like, locations so often, we were put in

12:28

boarding schools. And Anglican boarding

12:30

schools, in those days, you know, you'd

12:32

get sort of like, they'd

12:34

have like a, I suppose you could say like

12:36

a discounted type rate for ministers' kids. So

12:39

we'd be in these schools with, like,

12:41

you know, rich kids, I suppose, or

12:43

really well-off families compared to us, you know,

12:45

who'd been put in quite prestigious boarding schools

12:48

and stuff. So when you were comparing yourself

12:50

to other kids and stuff, you know, yeah,

12:53

you went well-off. But we were never, never

12:56

poor, I think. I'm

12:58

going through my own kind of journey,

13:01

for want of a better word. So my background, my

13:03

mum's from the Solomon Islands, and my father was English,

13:05

came out to the Solomons in 1967. So

13:08

coming from a mixed-race background.

13:11

And I'm a lot younger

13:13

than my two siblings, but as I've got older,

13:15

I've been trying to kind of piece together, like

13:17

my mum's journey in particular from the village into,

13:21

like, the UK initially, and then over here

13:23

to New Zealand. You

13:25

also come from a mixed-parentage background. Did

13:27

your parents face similar challenges through their kind of

13:29

relationship that you were aware of, or have you

13:32

had to make sense of them later on? Well,

13:34

I think both mum and dad's families

13:36

didn't want them to get married at

13:39

all. You know, like, mum came

13:41

from, you know, like a traditional English family, and

13:43

was one of those early, plain loads of teachers

13:45

that they flew over back in the day. So,

13:48

you know, she did that to escape her family, she

13:51

says, basically over in England, because I guess like a

13:53

lot of those English there, they expect you to live

13:55

in a sort of small town, and maybe marry somebody

13:57

else in a small town. just

14:00

sort of done a runner. Didn't want to

14:02

look after your granddad or whatever, which I can't

14:04

blame. And then flew over to New

14:06

Zealand and got mixed up with the wrong crowd and the

14:08

old man. But he

14:11

definitely came from quite a... I suppose what

14:13

you would typify is technically called like a

14:15

poor family, I guess, you know,

14:17

youngest of 18 kids, you

14:19

know, living in the, I suppose these

14:21

days, sort of the house the size of a large

14:24

shed for some people, you know.

14:26

So when those two worlds of met, like

14:28

I think mum's family weren't happy. And

14:31

then surprisingly enough, and I suppose

14:33

it happened a lot back in those days, and still does

14:35

happen dad's family, like the Māori side of them, we're happy

14:37

with him, you know, meeting

14:39

a Pākehā English lady and marrying

14:42

her. So I

14:44

imagine for a young mind, going into a,

14:48

as you described it, like a quite a prominent boarding

14:50

school as well, that maybe manifested itself

14:52

in kind of interesting ways or your

14:54

view or your perception of the world.

14:58

Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day,

15:00

and it's just like when you were young, like

15:02

really young, I suppose at school, you

15:04

know, before like 11 or 12, everything's quite

15:08

at those age, like all kids are sort of

15:10

like friends, really, aren't they? And there's nothing about

15:12

like where you come from, or your race, or

15:14

wherever your upbringing really has much to do, people

15:16

are just mates. And you have a really

15:18

sort of mixed sort of group

15:20

of friends. And then as you sort of get

15:22

older, and you get into that sort of secondary

15:24

school type age, I guess, people start to delve

15:27

more about where you're from, and, and

15:30

sort of start getting a bit more opinionated, and sort of

15:33

things start getting a bit, sometimes can turn

15:35

quite nasty from there. And then that's when your

15:37

life sort of changes in boarding school and things

15:39

like that, I think. So for me,

15:41

like the early years in boarding school, because I

15:43

started when I was nine, through to 12, and

15:45

stuff were like really good. And then

15:47

things just got a bit, bit

15:50

shit after that. Yeah, yeah. One

15:52

of the things that really caught

15:54

my attention in the research was

15:56

dispensation at school to run and

15:58

I'd read that any time

16:01

of the day or night, whenever you needed to, you could go

16:03

and just let off some steam. Is that something that,

16:05

how did that come in? Oh, he's gone and done one, hasn't he? Yes,

16:07

I was about to say. Oh, he's gone and

16:09

done one. I thought I'd let you finish your question, but...

16:12

I saw the look on your face, and I thought, I

16:15

thought to myself, I didn't think this question was

16:17

gonna be that controversial. And

16:19

then he's gone and done it now. Oh,

16:21

Dougie's fresh. It's a chance for everyone to

16:23

just... No, that's good. You can really taste

16:26

those ones, eh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's

16:28

high-quality dog food that you know, clearly. It's

16:30

type two fun, right? Yeah. I do.

16:35

I wanna get back into that Hurt Locker again. That

16:38

was so good. That was such a

16:40

good reaction. Oh, I love it. I was just

16:42

used to it. I was just like, oh, God, I feel sorry when you

16:44

guys are gonna start getting the whiff of that. Kind

16:46

of a cabbagie almost. Yeah, it does. Yeah,

16:48

it's quite... Oh,

16:50

we were running. Yeah, the dispensation

16:53

in high school. Yeah,

16:55

I guess, well, that was sort of like the second high

16:57

school I got into, like after sort

17:00

of... Oh,

17:02

like sort of being forced to

17:04

exit the first one. And

17:08

I guess I... Yeah. I

17:10

suppose it goes back to what I was

17:12

saying, like you didn't have at times that

17:14

great a sort of interaction with other kids and stuff

17:17

at school. Are we

17:19

talking racism? Are we dancing around? No,

17:21

I was just about to say, we don't

17:23

need to dance around it too much, because

17:25

I mean, you guys are a little bit

17:27

younger than me, but it was probably still

17:30

pretty prevalent. It's still prevalent today, but back

17:32

in the 80s and early 90s, especially, I

17:35

think it was ignored a lot more by teachers and

17:37

organizations and stuff. It was something that you just had

17:39

to harden up and deal with and stuff. But when

17:42

you're always been like one of only one

17:44

or two Maori kids at a boarding school,

17:48

and then kids sort of get that sort of way going as they

17:50

get a little bit older, you'd cop a lot.

17:54

And the old band was sort of

17:56

a bit of a stickler for like, Having

18:01

quite a high moral standard and

18:04

not being a bully, not starting anything,

18:06

but then not backing down either. Like

18:08

if someone came at you or

18:10

a group came at you or if they insulted your

18:12

family or whatever, then you stuck up for yourself. So

18:14

I guess that's the way he was raised. And

18:18

then like, so if a

18:20

group of kids would have a go, and back

18:22

in those days, no cell phones and stuff, so

18:24

it was all in person, then

18:26

I'd have a go

18:28

back. Because I guess you were just young and full

18:30

of testosterone and stuff as well. And you

18:34

know, like you'd get in fights all the time.

18:37

And I suppose when people knew that they could rak you up,

18:39

then you'd end up getting them more because it was like a

18:41

bit of a game to some groups of people. So

18:44

school, I found that like, if I could go

18:46

blow off some steam, then

18:48

I was less likely to punch

18:51

someone, I guess, once a bit of term.

18:53

So I'd go out running and

18:57

they sort of caught me doing it. And

18:59

then the

19:01

Anglican minister and stuff at the time at the

19:03

school and that said, look, he'd take responsibility for

19:05

me. And that if I

19:08

needed to, then I could go for a run anytime. So yeah,

19:11

normally, boarding schools have curfews back in those days, but then I'll

19:13

just go out whenever it was. And if it was the middle

19:15

of the night, or really early in the

19:17

morning, I'll just go out for a run. And I

19:19

found that that would sort of give you enough time

19:21

to blow off all that sort of energy and

19:24

sort of get it out of your head rather

19:26

than just sort of finnily snapping in front of

19:28

someone. What sort of distance are those

19:30

run? Like how, how angry are we? Like

19:32

how much steam did you have to blow off? Well, I

19:34

suppose it depends on how angry you were at the time.

19:36

But looking back at it, I was like, oh, actually quite

19:38

a good runner back in those days. I feel like you're

19:40

a good runner now. Let's look at that eventually. But

19:44

yeah, you know, you'd get out and you'd, you know, even as

19:46

a young guy at school, and you might not see very much,

19:48

but we'd be going from anywhere like, you know, 10, 12 K

19:50

runs in the morning, just to

19:53

calm yourself down. Did

19:55

that, did that anger or that frustration or that

19:58

feeling towards the world continue? post high school?

20:01

Yeah I think it has. I think

20:04

it's a matter of getting better at dealing with it

20:07

and as you become older and obviously a little bit

20:09

more insightful looking

20:11

at where it's coming from and realizing how you react

20:14

to things and sort of trying to deal with it

20:16

a bit better but it did sort

20:18

of shape I suppose sort of my

20:20

early years quite a lot on

20:24

how you reacted to things and how you saw

20:26

yourself and sort of whether

20:30

you took opportunities or not whether you trusted people

20:32

or not or things like that so it did

20:34

shape you a lot those early years of having

20:36

to sort of fight your way through

20:38

school. Your journey into

20:41

medicine after school went through

20:43

via Otago University how

20:45

did what we have just

20:47

talked about mix with the sort of

20:49

booze culture there with the drugs and

20:51

alcohol start to come into play? I've

20:54

never been one for drugs like I've

20:57

grown up around people that have like you know back in

20:59

those days smoked a lot of weed and stuff like that

21:01

but for me I just hated the smell of

21:03

it you know like everybody growing up in those days you

21:05

tried it everybody does these as

21:07

I guess in New Zealand most people but I mean

21:10

I just hate it I thought it tastes like shit

21:12

smells like shit just made me

21:14

really hungry and I can't afford to eat that

21:16

much McDonald's you know back in the day so

21:18

I never was into that but beer was cheap

21:21

you know and you got out of boarding school you

21:23

didn't know what to do with your life I

21:26

think I went to university because that's just what

21:28

everybody else was doing and I

21:30

had some really bad sort of career advice

21:32

at school and

21:34

headmaster advice at school you know when I left

21:37

so I just went to university that's what other people were doing and

21:40

I wasn't particularly interested in what I

21:42

was studying and because I was relatively bright

21:45

I suppose I just coasted we'll

21:47

be right back after this short break purer

21:52

somatic sexologist Morgan Pena and I am

21:54

inviting you to dive into the world

21:56

of intimacy relationships and everything in between

21:58

on the six dot line podcast with

22:00

myself and Haileys route. You

22:02

know like that great fruit video where a woman's like if

22:06

you haven't seen the grapefruit technique video

22:08

good lord. I haven't haven't you? No.

22:12

Spend the first season of six dog

22:14

life the podcast before the launch of

22:16

sentence two on iHeart Radio or wherever

22:18

you get your podcasts. Were

22:23

you still academically sound despite some of

22:25

those challenges at high school? Probably

22:28

dropped off a lot like I was. Yeah, because

22:31

it goes back to like when I left school

22:33

like I was in the top educational stream at

22:36

school. You know we did what

22:38

was bursary back in those days we did

22:40

it like a year early so basically in

22:42

your seventh form you were you know which

22:44

is your final year of school now for

22:46

you young kids out there. We

22:48

were just sort of coasting and playing sport and

22:50

doing other stuff and doing more bursary papers and

22:54

no one ever really gave me any career advice what to do. I

22:57

remember my exit interview with the headmaster and

23:00

I look back at it now just think

23:02

what a prick was basically when I

23:04

said to him look you know sport was just

23:06

becoming professional I said look I'm interested in this

23:08

and would think about

23:10

you know trying sport. His only advice to me

23:12

was stay out of jail and I was just

23:14

like where's that coming from like you know I'm

23:16

in the top academic stream at school. I've

23:19

been a member of you know some of the top sports teams

23:21

at school and I'm doing quite well and the only advice to

23:23

me was stay out of jail and I didn't realize

23:26

where that was coming from and it probably becomes a

23:28

bit more obvious as you get older. So

23:31

I just went to university and and hit

23:34

the booze I think really. Was it

23:36

a sports physio that you had some intentions

23:39

of becoming? I did because that's the only thing

23:41

I knew physios did. Yeah. Like I thought the

23:43

physio was just a dude that ran onto the

23:45

rugby field when he was hurt. But as you've

23:47

identified that was the start of the professional era

23:49

right. Yeah. There were probably it was sports physio

23:51

before sports physio was a thing. Yeah and I

23:53

thought that's what physios did. I thought that's awesome

23:55

and then I went down to Otago

23:57

and it was still a mixture of the university. the

24:00

AUT back in those days and they started doing

24:02

all this stuff about like you know old people

24:05

rehab and all this stuff and I was like

24:07

oh that's not really that interesting

24:10

for me really but I did you know

24:12

just stuck with it and managed to finish it in the end

24:14

but there's a lot of time in there that like you know

24:17

I look back and think oh I did

24:19

waste a lot of... But did you enjoy your

24:22

Scarfie experience? Some of it yep

24:24

some of it not so much I mean you can

24:26

tell by the way when you mature that you know

24:28

like I don't hang out with any of those people

24:30

and you from back in those days some

24:33

of them have moved on to

24:35

do good things some of them have probably just

24:37

completely fallen off the wagon some are probably still

24:40

stuck down there in some sort of way shape

24:42

or degree and you know the pub

24:44

sort of culture and stuff you know because

24:47

we used to work at the pub as bouncers

24:49

when we were younger just so you could earn enough

24:51

money to drink beer. One

24:55

of my favorite parts in episodes

24:57

like this is when we see like where

25:00

you are now but then I hear that

25:02

it took you three attempts to get into

25:04

medical school you you failed and you whatever

25:06

and you kept going back and keep going

25:09

back what tell us what happened with the

25:11

three attempts? Yeah I suppose there's

25:13

been a lot of failure in what

25:15

I've done like there's always been a lot

25:17

of kickbacks and I came out of physio

25:19

school and then went off to work as

25:21

physio year and hated it and

25:24

I probably wasn't that good at it either because my heart just

25:26

wasn't in it so I sort of

25:28

loitering and thinking what to do and I went

25:30

off and

25:33

did some military stuff and

25:35

then was sort of working part-time and I

25:38

was having a chat with my

25:40

dad and he just said oh you know I

25:43

mentioned that once when I was on a placement I

25:45

saw this young doctor and it was a young fellow,

25:47

this young parkour fellow and he looked flash like he

25:50

had the shirt and the tie on and stuff and

25:52

you know looked the full nine yards and I was looking

25:55

at what he was studying and some of the courses the

25:57

same I thought like you know I could probably do that

26:00

And it was the first time it ever crossed my mind. And

26:03

then I was talking about with the old man while I was sort of

26:05

trying to figure out what to do. And he said, well hey, why don't

26:07

you go to medical school? And I

26:09

was like, that was the first time

26:11

anybody had ever sort of mentioned to me that I

26:13

could possibly do it. And

26:16

in hindsight, you know, if I'd applied from school or somebody told me,

26:19

I probably would have got in. But that's

26:21

another sort of story. So

26:23

I applied. And

26:26

quite rightly, I think they turned me down on

26:29

the first application because my grades from physio was

26:31

so poor. You know, C's got degrees back at

26:33

those, you know. Yeah. When

26:36

did that mindset of C's get degrees changed to

26:38

like, to one of excellence? Was it around that

26:40

conversation? It was around that conversation. It was like,

26:43

you know, I was a straight A student at

26:45

school, lost the plot, went to the need,

26:47

and C's got degrees. It sort of cruised through. And

26:50

then that sort of conversation was there and stuff. And

26:52

then when I applied and they said, look, your grades

26:54

aren't good enough. And I had a sneaky suspicion that

26:56

would happen. And I was like, okay, this isn't

26:58

good enough. You know, C's might get

27:00

degrees, but they don't get medical degrees.

27:03

They don't get you into medical school.

27:05

So they made me do

27:07

first year health science back in those days.

27:09

Again? Again. Because

27:12

you've done it for physio, right? Yeah. My

27:14

rudimentary understanding of medical degrees. Well, it was

27:16

sort of different universes. So Otago never had

27:18

back then a first year health science. So

27:21

you just went straight into physio and did four years back then.

27:24

So Auckland, because that's where I

27:26

was applying, was saying, oh, you know, some of the

27:28

papers don't match up, all this other sort of stuff

27:30

and do first year health science.

27:33

And I'd approached some of the admission organizations

27:35

back then. I said, look, if you do first year health

27:37

science, we'll take you. I was

27:40

like, okay, first time rejection, you've been asked to

27:42

prove yourself to it. So I did it. And

27:44

like, I had to work, you know, three part time

27:47

jobs and study at the same time. But

27:50

I applied myself like I used to at school. And

27:53

I managed to get through with this, you know,

27:55

straight average and actually get close to

27:57

topping the odd subject. Then

28:00

when I applied again, I got turned out. And

28:03

I got turned down by two different ways of admission.

28:05

And I was like, oh, she

28:07

is. I've just spent a whole

28:09

year living

28:11

off the bones of my arse, not

28:13

working pretty much for nothing. And

28:16

I was at a loss about where to go. And

28:19

it literally wasn't until the

28:21

week before medical school started that

28:24

I got sent a letter with

28:26

an offer. And

28:28

it's still to this day. It's a bit mixed of

28:30

exactly how that happened. There

28:32

was rumor that I was like a third or

28:34

fourth on the waiting list and that

28:36

some people pulled out. But there was also

28:39

a Dr. Tony

28:41

Ruakiri, who was a mentor

28:43

of mine and a good family friend at the time, who

28:45

was a doctor and working in government

28:48

as well, who was quite upset that

28:50

I hadn't been offered a spot

28:53

through the admission schemes and

28:56

forged his opinion as well. So

28:58

whether it was really what I was told, that

29:00

I was third on the waiting list and

29:02

a spot popped up, or whether it

29:04

was him putting his foot down. I

29:07

don't know. To this day. Did

29:10

you know at that time, and correct

29:12

me if I'm wrong, that through your fuck a

29:14

papa, you've got medical history as well, dating right

29:16

back to, I think, the first Māori doctor? I

29:19

didn't, actually. And I think that's why dad

29:21

was really keen. As soon as I mentioned

29:23

it, he jumped on it. And

29:26

it came out afterwards as I started

29:28

to learn more about my fuck a

29:30

papa and everything, where I suppose where

29:32

it came from. Because

29:34

all the first Māori doctors came from the

29:37

same little town, Raka Nura

29:39

Nui, in Taranaki. The first

29:41

one trained overseas, the first one trained

29:43

in New Zealand in Otago. They all came from the same

29:46

EU as I did. And I didn't know that

29:49

when I first applied. And

29:51

again, I might be

29:53

making the story up to super narrative, but now

29:57

I feel like that would really be

29:59

celebrated. That knowledge that

30:01

sharing of knowledge and that that pride

30:03

in that lineage but was that

30:05

coming through a period where. It was a

30:07

little bit you know like people like

30:09

people that is a whole generation of a big

30:11

for speaking speaking mawri was it

30:13

kind of caught up in the aftermath of that sort

30:15

of thing where it wasn't spoken about cuz i find

30:18

it incredible that you wouldn't be aware of that. I

30:20

think a little bit yeah like. Generate

30:23

over the like the past three generations things have

30:25

changed a lot so. Dad's

30:27

parents only spoke spoke mawri

30:30

knowing this when dad went to

30:32

school and it was late when he went to school he

30:34

got picked up with the government like age 13 to go

30:36

to school. He

30:38

wasn't allowed to speak mawri at school because

30:41

they'd get beaten but then he wasn't

30:43

allowed to speak English at home because parents wouldn't allow it.

30:46

Yeah so there was that whole sort of change

30:48

there and then. My

30:51

generation and sort of some of my other mawri friends that

30:53

grew up the same there was nothing at

30:55

school and your parents

30:57

didn't really like dad wasn't around to

30:59

push it a lot, so we never

31:02

spoke. So there

31:04

was that whole side of. Because

31:06

dad was so busy with the Anglican Marian

31:08

mission I suppose at times we didn't really

31:10

have the opportunity to learn exactly who we are

31:13

we came from and things like that. But

31:17

there was also the side I think that. Quite

31:20

a lot of mawri and especially I suppose where we come

31:22

from is the sort of that little bit of. Your

31:26

humility where you don't. I

31:29

suppose brack about who you

31:31

are where you come from and for me

31:33

I sort of adopted that quite a bit like I wanted to

31:35

be taken in. On

31:38

the merits that I demonstrated and

31:41

not just because I'm related to somebody

31:43

that's always been why I come from

31:45

a certain lineage. I mean

31:47

I can understand I recognize that and I'm

31:49

proud of it now but I've

31:51

always wanted to achieve stuff on my

31:54

merits on who I am and

31:58

at times. I

32:00

think that's a good thing and it's a bad

32:02

thing because there's

32:05

there's been like humble and then there's been

32:07

what I've always probably been too much of

32:09

earlier in my life and that's like not.

32:13

Speaking up all for yourself or not putting

32:15

yourself forward enough because of that you

32:18

must and that sort of like I

32:20

suppose it does damper things a little bit

32:23

that makes sense. Yeah, it makes all by just fluff

32:25

down a rabbit hole. No, no, that actually makes real

32:27

sense to me as well as as

32:29

a person of Pacific Island heritage

32:32

that maybe sometimes doesn't lean on some

32:35

of those traits that make me unique and

32:37

doesn't yeah and probably does down

32:39

themselves a little bit too much more

32:42

than they should given what

32:44

they've been able to do or done. And

32:47

I guess I had I've recently my

32:50

partner Vicki and I took some today

32:52

lessons from to the car. And

32:55

I think he phrased it the best

32:57

way to me that I'd probably been looking forward to

32:59

understand my entire life and he said be

33:02

humble but don't be subservient

33:05

and I just like when he said that I was just like it

33:07

just makes a lot of sense. There's

33:11

humility but then there's actually being so humble

33:13

that you just make yourself subservient to others

33:16

and I think that's the balance and sometimes you can go

33:18

too far one way and

33:20

I don't know what it's like for

33:23

a lot of other people

33:25

but I think we've done that a little bit

33:28

in our whanau at times. You've

33:32

been humble and you've just gone too far. Eventually

33:36

you do you do make it into medical

33:38

school and I've got a

33:40

little anecdote from Sam which I'm not

33:42

sure where it's on the timeline. I

33:44

thought we would cover it. He

33:47

said there was time when you're working in

33:49

the Waikato psych unit and he

33:51

said that your parents perhaps

33:56

blurred the lines between whether you were a

33:58

medical student or a patient. Yeah,

34:01

so they had. Yeah,

34:04

Jesus, a prick. So

34:07

there was, they would only

34:09

put like, down back then, they'd only put

34:11

the, the males sort of like medical students

34:13

in with the secure sort of areas in

34:16

the psyche that down there or with, I suppose,

34:18

people that had tends to be violent or other

34:20

disorders, you know. And

34:23

there was a workman, he was

34:25

fixing the electronic locked door. And

34:29

I was walking through and I had on like, as

34:31

I was a broker students, you

34:33

know, and I had like a jacket on, which

34:35

was like a third hand me down from some

34:37

op shop somewhere and I had my

34:39

best shoes on at the time, which is one pair of

34:42

shoes and some jeans and stuff. And I was walking past

34:44

this guy and he goes, Oh, excuse me, you allowed to

34:46

leave. And

34:50

I was like, well, I bloody well hope so. I'm

34:53

actually a doctor. Yeah, sure you are. Yeah,

34:56

come back this way. Very

34:59

good. Yeah. He said like you had the shape, the big, the, the

35:01

sheets, the jacket. But

35:04

it's not the first time that often, like you're

35:06

mistaken for like not a doctor. Yeah.

35:09

We were working up in, in Whangarei and there's

35:11

this lovely lady there in the intensive care and

35:14

she was one of the cleaners, this Maori lady,

35:16

and she was cleaning the floors and she looked

35:18

at me, she goes, Oh, you've got a really

35:21

nice tan. How I

35:23

said to her, I was like, Oh yeah, I'm out

35:25

here. She goes like, No. And

35:27

I was like, Yeah, I'm one of the,

35:30

one of the doctors here. She's like, just keep

35:32

on sweeping the floor. Like I was just taking the piss, you know, is

35:37

that, does that kind of casual, casual racism, probably

35:39

not. Well, maybe it is. Is

35:42

that, is that still kind of a challenge

35:44

that you face even today? I

35:47

think it is like you get, like

35:50

I said, I get mistaken for everything, but a doctor. I

35:52

think it's one of the reasons why work got me some

35:54

scrubs of my name on it and doctor on it, you

35:56

know, so that people would stop asking me to push beds

35:59

and things like that. that the

36:02

erasure is still out there and there's a lot of

36:04

casual stuff that's just, you

36:06

know, and it's always written off by organisations

36:09

of people as, oh, that's just how people are

36:11

and stuff and that's degeneration or that's this and

36:14

that and I think that's

36:16

crap. You know, you just address

36:18

it wherever you see it because,

36:20

you know, the standard you accept or walk past,

36:22

you know, so I just

36:25

pull it out wherever it is but, you know, I've

36:27

been asked by other young doctors,

36:29

you know, to move patients to their

36:31

beds to do other sort of stuff and it's just

36:33

like, no mate, I'm actually one of the senior doctors

36:35

here. You can do that

36:37

yourself if you want. With

36:40

a look. With a look, yeah.

36:42

Usually people only make that mistake about once. Yeah,

36:44

you've got quite an intimidating sort of presence about

36:47

you. Those that can't see, he's

36:49

got the tattoo and the xan, he's well-built and I

36:51

can imagine the look would

36:53

be, it would really put someone

36:55

in their place. That works against

36:57

you too though at times. Like

36:59

I've always tried hard, especially as

37:01

I've got older, to keep my

37:03

underlying, I suppose, bluntness or

37:07

presence in check a little bit because you'd

37:09

always get, you'd

37:11

probably get, tell you about it, like you see people take

37:13

one look at you and they think, oh, big

37:16

fella, round fella, I'm

37:18

going to cross the street or I'm going to...

37:20

Oh, yeah. And you automatically, whenever you have a

37:22

discussion with someone that you don't agree on the

37:24

same thing, automatically

37:28

you get told that you're aggressive or

37:30

that you're intimidating. And I've had

37:32

that before. When work means, I

37:34

said, oh, you look into me. He's like, well, why do you want me to change

37:36

about my look? Am I

37:38

supposed to wear a suit and be

37:41

clean shaven? And everybody these days

37:43

can show up to work whoever they want. You've

37:46

got doctors of piercings through their noses, through

37:48

the eye, colored hair. You can't

37:50

tell anyone how to dress or whatever. And people

37:53

tell me that I look intimidating because I

37:55

actually give a shit about being fit and go to the

37:57

gym or go running and stuff. And

38:00

that really upsets

38:03

me a little bit. I know some people don't mean it like

38:05

you were saying there before, you meant nothing

38:07

bad about it, but sometimes at

38:09

work you cop it, and that's one of

38:11

the things you cop. And

38:13

I said, what do you mean? Is it

38:16

because I'm young and Maori and look after

38:18

myself that I'm intimidating? And

38:21

then they stop and realise what they've said. And

38:23

sometimes that's enough to make them realise

38:25

that hey, you have got some underlying

38:28

bias on how you view people, because

38:30

I've never been an aggressive person at

38:32

work, I've never done

38:34

anything. And I actually

38:36

hate bullying whatsoever, and it's one

38:38

thing that really set me off after suffering from it

38:40

for so long through school. Have

38:42

we just excused what I said? We

38:45

have, because you just meant nothing by it.

38:47

But I mean that's... Yeah, but is that

38:49

representative of wider society? I

38:51

was commenting on the build and the

38:54

tats. But is

38:57

this what we're talking about? Am I part

38:59

of the problem? No, I think all

39:01

you've done is probably... Yes, it's okay. No, because I

39:04

think all you've done is probably triggered off stuff that's

39:06

in my head, and that's the stuff that I can't...

39:09

Well, I have to deal with daily because

39:11

that's what you've suffered coming through the system.

39:15

You've been judged by your

39:17

appearance or your life, and

39:19

a lot of young kids are getting that right from

39:22

now. You go back to even

39:25

recently, the police just taking photos of

39:27

young brown people with no

39:29

legal reason or... Because

39:32

they just want to keep a record. I

39:34

mean shit like that really upsets me. And

39:38

there's people that make casual comments with obviously mean nothing

39:41

but good nature and you understand it. And

39:43

then there's organizations that do it, and

39:46

that's that sort of systematic

39:48

inherent bias and racism

39:51

in our society that we need to deal with. And

39:54

that's where I get myself in trouble at work at times.

39:57

It's an interesting point. I don't go out as much...

40:00

because I don't drink anymore as I used to but

40:03

for sure you'd be standing at a bar and someone

40:05

would come up and go fuck you're a big guy

40:07

a and it was like you

40:10

kind of go oh yeah I am and

40:12

they're like oh you're actually really nice and you're

40:14

like yeah I am but

40:17

also like just thinking through what you're saying it's like fuck I

40:19

think were there people like sizing you

40:21

up as like oh what if I take this big

40:23

guy down like that'll give

40:25

me some badge of like badge

40:27

of honor I'm probably kind of reverse reverse

40:30

engineering my own kind of thinking on things but I always

40:32

did find it weird that people would come up and feel

40:34

like that was a thing to

40:36

kind of comment on yeah that is a part of

40:38

I think New Zealand culture you know that sort of

40:40

going out culture I guess is people will do that

40:43

I mean when we were younger even at university or

40:45

medical school and we ran out for drinks and stuff

40:48

but none of my other mates would get sized

40:51

up or anything yeah we're always like people like you're the

40:53

nicest guy when you go on stuff is like you come

40:55

a nice guy all the time but

40:57

you're just a shit magna and

41:00

it was just because people would look at you and they'd be like oh

41:03

you know whether they want to

41:05

have a go they want to prove something whatever you know

41:08

they'd pick you out yeah and that's part

41:10

of the dark side of the drinking culture I

41:12

think in New Zealand I mean you

41:14

can be a nice guy mind your own business but

41:16

somebody just wants to have a go and it's

41:19

just because of your appearance it's definitely in the back it

41:21

was definitely part of we had a

41:23

conversation about me not drinking Stephen

41:25

and I and it was definitely

41:28

something that had started to

41:30

enter into my psyche because it was around the

41:32

time I can't I think

41:34

it's Tal Fekke the he was a

41:36

an MMA fighter Tongan MMA fighter they

41:39

got coward punched

41:42

here in Auckland and died yeah and

41:44

I and I remember thinking shit

41:47

is that like am I a big target that someone

41:49

one night who's had too much to drink would go

41:51

I'm just gonna go and smack this guy and

41:53

I was like I actually don't I don't want that in my life

41:55

anymore so there was a whole bunch of factors that came into the

41:58

my decision to not drinking but that was one

42:00

of them is like on a night out it just kind

42:02

of didn't really feel that comfortable anymore. And

42:05

I don't feel that comfortable anymore going out drinking

42:07

and then obviously at work seeing

42:10

the amount of violence is just ramping up and

42:14

not just the amount but the degree of

42:17

like I suppose nastiness or

42:19

with the violence that it's around

42:21

with drinking and drugs and stuff in

42:23

the central city. I mean I reckon if

42:25

you go out drinking in the center city these days I

42:29

mean you just always got to no matter

42:31

how good a person you are or what sort of group

42:33

of people you're with or where you're going it's

42:35

just like you know keep your awareness

42:37

up because there are just cowardly

42:39

nasty people out there that will

42:42

just for no reason at the moment attack

42:44

people and a lot of it's come

42:46

in with weapons and stuff as well so I'm like yeah

42:48

bro I don't really go out drinking anymore. Also

42:51

because we're all really old eh? Yeah because we go

42:53

out drinking and have two bears and it's like it's

42:55

time to go home on the couch. 9

42:58

o'clock curfew. We'll

43:00

be right back after this short break. I'm

43:28

keen to

43:31

bring in

43:36

and I want to talk some more about health

43:38

care down the line but I'm keen to link

43:40

into the running and the start of the ultra

43:43

marathon and when this bug came. I understand Christchurch

43:45

earthquakes around 2011 was was kind of the catalyst.

43:49

Yeah like most things in my life it's my dad dropping

43:51

me in it you know he drops you in it go

43:53

to mid school you have to do the the Mahi Gid

43:55

and there to do that. I'd had Like

44:00

I really hurt my back when I was... Or

44:03

was it in my mid-30s? Um...

44:07

I left a pediatric ventilator out of a

44:09

helicopter. We've all been there, eh? Yeah!

44:12

LAUGHTER You

44:15

know, cos you were like, yeah, you only go to the gym

44:17

and stuff, and then it's like, you know, the ramp's broken, so

44:20

let's do that. And I did that, and at the time it

44:22

was like, oh, shit, this is sore, but I didn't think too

44:24

much of it, and then... I heard

44:26

it more kayaking than it just went. And

44:29

I spent a long time sort of rehabbing and dropping a

44:31

lot of weight, cos I just used to go to the

44:33

gym and lift big weights and be a big dude, and

44:35

it was like... And I got back

44:37

to being tiny, as a friend that I used

44:39

to run with at medical school, she said, hey,

44:42

let's start running again, cos we're in New Plymouth

44:44

at Taranaki Base Hospital. So the

44:46

first couple of runs, I went on like, you know,

44:48

Jesus, my back hurt, and I was as slow as

44:50

shit, and it was a real struggle. And

44:52

then you finally... You started

44:55

to get strongly slower. Strongly

44:57

slower. Slowly stronger. Shift-width.

45:02

And then I started running half

45:05

marathons, started running marathons, which

45:07

the old man was really stoked with, he used to be a really

45:09

good runner. And then I

45:11

was thinking about doing an ultra-marathon, and

45:13

they were pretty new back in those days.

45:16

For those who don't know, that's 100k. Ultra-marathon is defined

45:18

as 100k? Yeah, they say

45:20

it's anything over a marathon. Right.

45:23

But most people sort of count the first one as like, you know,

45:26

a real one is 100k. Sorry for

45:28

people that have only done 50k. But

45:30

you can always harden up and down a bit further. And

45:34

then the crisis earthquake happened, and I was

45:36

thinking about entering the Saltschram Marathon, and I

45:39

mean, Aaron said, oh, you know, we can

45:41

always do it to raise money for the

45:43

earthquake appeal. And next thing he's

45:45

told the local church that I'm going to do

45:47

it, and they started raising money. Advertise,

45:50

like, sponsor this guy to run 100k, and

45:53

I'd never run more than like, you know, 42.2 in my life.

45:56

Yeah. So, yeah, it's

45:58

the old man's fault again. turning back, I mean,

46:00

we'll take you back to circulating it. But

46:04

have you always enjoyed running right from back

46:06

in high school? Like, was running a constant

46:08

in your life? You've mentioned you went to the gym

46:10

and you pumped some weights, but was that always a

46:13

joy? It used to be more of

46:15

a joy when I was younger, I think, because

46:17

I wasn't so old or had so many underlying injuries,

46:19

and you could run quite comfortably and free, and what

46:23

limited you was how hard you want to push yourself. Now

46:25

what limits me is what's gonna fall

46:27

apart first, because you're an old fart.

46:30

When did you first learn you could push yourself

46:32

further than what you actually thought you could? I

46:35

think that's where ultras really sort of come

46:37

in. I

46:40

mean, there was always stuff with the

46:42

military and other things where you can

46:44

do more than you think, just if you just hold on.

46:47

Like, you just switch off that part of

46:49

your brain that says quit, then your body

46:51

will quit well after your brain says quit.

46:54

And ultras just sort of reinforce that, you

46:58

get to a spot where your body just says, hey, I'm

47:00

gonna stop now, you just say, well,

47:03

what are you gonna do? Sit down here and like, you

47:05

know, wait for hours, or you're just gonna keep going. And

47:08

you can just ignore it. And if you ignore

47:10

that part of your brain that's conditioned, you say stop. Then

47:13

sooner or later, your body would just go, oh, let's

47:16

do it. I have got

47:18

a story which perfectly speaks

47:20

to this, which I'm gonna read out. So I

47:22

mentioned it before, but I was on the phone

47:24

with Eugene Bingham and lead up to this, and

47:26

I said, tell me an anecdote about Inia that

47:28

helps paint the picture of who he is. So

47:31

bear with me. So during Ultra Trail Australia

47:33

last year, Inia was running the 100K. Matt

47:36

and I were out running on the course during

47:38

the day. We'd come around the corner and thought,

47:40

oh shit, is that Inia? He's in trouble. He

47:43

looked dead on his feet and we thought he's

47:45

cooked. We went up to him trying to be

47:47

enthusiastic, but in ourselves we're thinking he's toast. And

47:49

this was early in the race. He was unwell,

47:52

it was hot, he was struggling. We helped him

47:54

as much as we could, but left him to

47:56

it. We figured he would be DNF, do not

47:58

finish at the next station. But we

48:00

kept tracking on through the day still going

48:02

that's weird He was slow but

48:05

still going at night They were

48:07

working at the event and figured that he

48:09

would be out but lo and behold this

48:11

figure came Sprinting through the finish shoot finishing

48:13

like a freight train Racing

48:16

through to the astonishment and

48:18

he said that they looked at each other gobsmacked

48:20

He went faster and faster as the day went

48:22

on. What the hell? We couldn't explain it to

48:25

to Eugene and Matt that demonstrated

48:27

the toughness of the guy to

48:30

a normal person They would pull out not only

48:32

did he not pull out, but he

48:34

grounded out and got faster Astonishing

48:37

so that was about 30 kilometers into

48:39

a hundred k race They're seeing

48:41

you out and like you just spoke about

48:44

you're finding the strength from somewhere. Do

48:46

you remember that race? Yeah, I

48:48

do actually cuz I'd um I'd

48:51

gone over for it and like they see

48:53

I was caught It was a really stinky

48:55

hot day in Australia And

48:57

I hate the heat as it is trying to run and

49:00

we're only literally like you said about like 25 30 K zone And

49:03

I said to them only Everything

49:13

was just like and it's that sort of fatigue where you

49:15

just know that you're in trouble but

49:18

um You just stuck with

49:20

it and I think the thing is is once you've done Once

49:23

you've pushed your body for a barrier once it

49:25

becomes easier to do it again And

49:28

I just know in my mind that I've just got

49:30

a weather whatever storm comes up in a race and

49:33

eventually my body will just go Oh, you

49:35

know shit. He's gonna do it again. Regardless. I might as well

49:38

just suck it up and Endure

49:40

it The mind

49:42

sighted for the worst thing for me is you get a bit embarrassed But

49:45

people think you some good runner and I'm not a good runner

49:48

I'm just a stubborn prick and

49:50

you get embarrassed to think like oh, yeah, all these people are

49:52

passing me You

49:55

know the person with only you know,

49:57

one leg and the three-legged dog or whatever's passing

49:59

me and Oh, yeah, just you

50:01

get in your head you're gonna quit because you're

50:03

embarrassed And

50:06

if you just think no Hey,

50:09

I'm still here I'm still doing it if

50:11

I finish it you've beaten everybody that hasn't

50:13

started or hasn't finished Just keep going and

50:15

I know that sooner or later typically when

50:17

the Sun goes down things get cooler Or

50:21

when I can finally get my brain to harden up

50:23

a bit that I'll eventually just dig it in and

50:25

start to come right but You

50:29

describe it as being a stubborn prick.

50:32

I would reframe it as Mentally

50:34

tougher than anyone I think we've had on this

50:36

podcast But some of the stuff we're about to

50:38

talk to its mental toughness, right?

50:41

Like you're finding that way in

50:43

that type too fun to push through what other

50:45

people can't yeah I think everybody's

50:47

got that potential in them

50:49

somewhere. They just need to have

50:51

it exposed and that's where sort of

50:53

like My

50:56

partner and I sort of like trying to start up a

50:58

scholarship for young kids and that's sort of part of the

51:00

thing that sort of brings into is just like People

51:03

are always told you can't do this or your body

51:05

tells you you can't do this But

51:07

all you need to do is just reset yourself and

51:09

push through and once you've done it once you can

51:11

do it again Like my

51:13

first hundred K like I had no idea was

51:15

gonna finish. I mean just seemed like a ridiculous

51:17

task I've never run more than 42 in

51:20

my life, but then once your body does

51:22

it and you do it I could

51:24

like even now with Not

51:26

enough training I could go out tomorrow and quite

51:28

comfortably so I could run a hundred K race

51:31

and I'd finish I mean it wouldn't be

51:33

flash The time would be

51:35

horrendous and my body would say look I really really hate

51:37

you for it at the end of it But

51:39

you do it Because you're

51:41

just not gonna quit and your body knows

51:43

that you're not gonna quit But also you

51:46

have prepared your body and in talking to

51:48

Bex about the work that you put in

51:50

to be able to not quit It

51:53

involves weight work and Pilates and diet

51:55

and hip mobilization and jujitsu to get

51:57

in flow state like there's a lot

52:00

that goes into being able to do that as well? Or

52:02

do you think you could do it without all that? No,

52:05

I think, well, I literally think that anyone can

52:07

do anything within

52:09

reason, that's just how much you're

52:11

gonna hate yourself. You

52:13

know, like if you can run like

52:15

1K, you could do

52:17

a 10K race. You've maybe never done one before in

52:19

your life. You could do it, but

52:22

you're not gonna enjoy it. And

52:24

it's the same, if you can go out and comfortably run 10K, you

52:26

could do a 100K race. It's just

52:28

all a mindset. Again,

52:30

you're not gonna enjoy it. And you may not walk

52:32

properly for a week or so, but

52:35

you'll be able to do it. These

52:38

stuff that I do these days is mainly to

52:41

keep the mind active and to also deal

52:44

with all the injuries that I've put

52:46

on my body over the years from pushing

52:49

yourself. You know, you just

52:51

develop niggles and stuff. And it's

52:53

all worked to sort of try to make it a

52:55

little bit more comfortable, I guess, when you do things.

52:57

Yeah, would you describe it as enjoyable? Like you do

52:59

a 250K race. Are

53:02

there parts of it that's enjoyable? Is the whole thing

53:04

enjoyable? Is it not a good way to describe it?

53:08

There are parts that are enjoyable. There's a lot

53:10

of parts that aren't, you know, but then

53:13

again, it's hard because those little parts

53:15

that really aren't enjoyable where you're suffering

53:17

and stuff a lot and everything hurts.

53:19

And if it's pissing down with

53:21

rain and you're freezing and stuff, I

53:24

quite often stop and think this sucks. It's

53:26

just like, if it just sucked a little bit more,

53:28

it's going to be awesome. Yeah. Type

53:31

two, baby. Yeah, it's just sort of

53:33

that. And you feel that even more

53:36

when you're finished, like in a stage race, when you finish

53:38

a stage and you're sitting down with other people that have

53:40

gone through the same suffering as you, and

53:42

you're just sitting down looking miserable, having a feed, you know,

53:45

somebody will crack a joke and then it'll just be

53:47

the start from there. Because you've all gone through the

53:49

same thing. You've suffered like shit and you enjoin it

53:52

at the end. And I suppose that's that sort of

53:54

camaraderie of that sort of thing. It's an intense mindset,

53:56

isn't it, really? Yeah, I want to get into some

53:58

of these yarns. So to paint

54:00

the picture in 2014 for your 40th birthday

54:02

instead of having a big... Sorry for outing

54:05

your age too by the way. Yeah, yeah.

54:07

Get worse. You did the

54:09

Four Deserts race series which is running four

54:11

250 kilometre races in a calendar year.

54:15

Why? First... Why?

54:18

Yeah, why? Why? Well,

54:21

I guess it came around... You have those midlife

54:23

crises and I think, you know, it started

54:26

at 30, maybe it really hit the fan at 40 but

54:28

I was... How

54:31

it first came about is I was having a really shit time at

54:33

work. Like

54:36

the health board, the district health board I was working for at the time

54:38

was sort of just abusing your work

54:40

ethic a little bit. You're getting a

54:42

lack of support and you're just really out there. And I sort

54:44

of had a bit of a breakdown of work

54:46

and just said, look, I don't want to go

54:49

through this sort of shit. And I was looking for some

54:51

sort of escape and I was turning 40 and

54:54

I saw these ultra marathons that

54:56

I've been doing. And I saw this multi day one and I

54:58

was like, oh, that

55:00

looks like... Fun? Yeah.

55:03

It looks like a real challenge. It looks like

55:05

a... 250k you say? Yeah. It looks like

55:07

a bit of fun. It looks like a bit of a

55:09

real big challenge and stuff and I want to do it.

55:11

So I signed up and

55:13

then I think it was in the middle of a night shift,

55:15

maybe or something stupid and just rocked

55:18

on up to this first one completely unprepared. Like

55:21

I mean shit. When

55:23

I got on the start line and looking at other people, it was

55:25

like, oh yeah, you can pick

55:27

the fella from small town, New Zealand. Yeah. The

55:31

rest of it, you know, got to be a rugby shorts on. Because

55:34

to jump on Stevie's point, you were the

55:36

first Kiwi to do it, right? I was

55:38

the first Kiwi to do all four in

55:40

a year. Right. Yeah. So

55:43

to join their Grand Slam club or whatever. And

55:45

where was the first one that you lined up at? Jordan.

55:49

Okay. Yeah. Because

55:51

they used to do it

55:53

in Egypt and then there was the Arab Spring or

55:56

something. Everything was kicking off. So they moved

55:58

up to Jordan and we did it there. Yeah.

56:01

What's that feeling like when you do line up on a

56:03

start line with 250k in front of you across

56:07

multiple days? Do you break it down to

56:09

like, I'm just gonna do

56:12

the first 10k and see how I like, what the fuck?

56:14

How do you even plan that? Or because it was

56:16

your first, you just bullshitted your

56:18

way through the first one. I think that it was the

56:20

first you was just so nervous. Like, I mean, I think

56:23

I went to the bloody portal of about four times before

56:25

the start. I had a pre-nod again, did you? A

56:29

dehydrated pre-moe before the race. But because

56:32

you just so never, he didn't know what to

56:34

expect. And I remember taking those first couple of

56:36

ks and I was like, shit, this pack is

56:38

really heavy. Because I hadn't done enough build up

56:40

for it. Cause I had strained my killies beforehand.

56:44

And I hadn't been running with a pack cause I couldn't load it up.

56:46

And I got this pack on and I weighed

56:48

about 12 kgs and then we put some water on a couple

56:50

of litres and I was trying to run. And

56:53

I was like, Oh God, this is going to be a

56:55

long, long day. Cause

56:59

what do you put in a way in a day of a 250? Putting

57:03

away in two ks. How

57:05

much of that do you bite on the first day? So

57:08

there's a minimal calorie intake

57:10

and there's also a minimal sort of distance that they

57:13

do. So it depends

57:15

on the race. So typically you're running about a marathon a

57:17

day. And then

57:19

they have a double stage or an

57:21

overnight stage where you do anywhere from like, you know,

57:24

75 to a hundred sort of ks. And

57:26

then whatever's left over to make up to 50, they

57:28

just do it on the last day. Right.

57:32

Yeah. Okay. There's like

57:34

five stories I want you to tell. So give them as much or

57:36

as little as you want. And I'm not sure if this is part

57:38

of the desert race series, but is there

57:40

a story about you becoming

57:43

blind towards the end of one of these

57:45

races and having to run towards some drums?

57:48

Yeah. And I always thought that

57:50

that was just complete not a fatigue and it probably,

57:52

it was. And then I

57:54

did learn that people are doing research into

57:56

ultra marathon runners that were going suffering

57:59

sort of like temporary blind. And it'd

58:01

be more common in people that had ice surgery and I

58:03

did ice surgery before but I was over

58:05

in doing this Gobi race in China

58:07

and My entire

58:09

build-up for it had been crap like

58:12

I trained but then the airports

58:14

lost all my gear So I

58:16

completely lost everything Except for

58:18

what I was wearing and carrying on the flight got

58:20

to this race and thought shit You know,

58:23

I'm gonna have to run in my icebreaker boxes And

58:26

like a t-shirt cuz I've got no other gear and

58:28

so I put up the sign at the check-in and said, hey

58:30

Can you guys donate gear if anyone

58:32

got it and the response is overwhelming people just don't

58:35

add to everything but the

58:37

big thing was food and

58:39

I got a lot of Dehydrated food from a

58:41

lot of the locals sort of runners and

58:44

it was all in Chinese and stuff He had no idea

58:46

what they were giving you so I just took all the

58:48

English dehydrated food I could get and Mixed

58:50

with some of the the Chinese stuff to make up my

58:52

calorie numbers and I was eating this

58:54

stuff and from the first day

58:56

It just must have disagreed with me and

58:58

I had the shits something awful like

59:01

I Was

59:03

in the you know, just basically gun pine every bush

59:06

I could give my hands on after eating some squiddy

59:08

sort of thing from breakfast Stealing

59:10

toilet paper from the first aid tent and basically just

59:12

sort of ran myself into a really sort of dehydrated

59:14

mess and then

59:17

on one stage Which is

59:19

coming in just like the final long stage I

59:22

just run myself so ragged to try to catch

59:24

up to make up time that I Was

59:27

really sort of on that edge. I guess we're

59:29

looking back where your body regardless what your mind

59:31

Saying you can do your body was just gonna go. No,

59:34

you're just gonna drop and cut out and There

59:37

was one last checkpoint to go at the top of this

59:40

ridge And then it was sort of a

59:42

downhill from there for about seven or eight days So

59:44

I knew if I could just sort of get past that without

59:46

them pulling me from the race That

59:49

I had a good chance of finishing So

59:51

I sort of got up the top of this hill and they were pulling people

59:54

Because the weather was turning crap and I

59:56

just sort of waved and smiles said yeah, you want to follow

59:58

sweet? Oh, I go and just took off And

1:00:00

it just sort of all started to turn to

1:00:02

custard from there. And I

1:00:05

sort of got to that sort of pre-black out stage,

1:00:07

I think, like my vision was getting smaller and smaller.

1:00:10

There was a guy that was actually Polish

1:00:14

run out, sort of in front, who was keeping an eye on me, which

1:00:16

was a really nice guy. And sort of every now

1:00:18

and then sort of waiting to make sure I made the turnoffs. And

1:00:21

it got to the point where you could hear these drums,

1:00:23

because they beat the drums at the end of each stage,

1:00:26

so you know where to go. And

1:00:28

I got to the point where I could no longer really

1:00:30

sort of focus on the ground or what I was doing.

1:00:32

It was getting that bad, but I could hear these drums.

1:00:35

So I thought, like, if I just keep running toward

1:00:37

the drums, allow this, and don't trip up, I'll make

1:00:39

it. So I sort of staggered in,

1:00:42

and pretty

1:00:44

much the classic sort of collapse after the

1:00:47

finish line. And

1:00:49

then sort of like, you know, woke

1:00:51

up sort of being

1:00:53

assisted in like a vehicle with

1:00:55

being wrapped up in blankets and

1:00:58

people trying to get me to sit floors and stuff. And

1:01:01

it was only like a short stage at the end

1:01:03

of the race after that to go, and

1:01:05

I think that was still close to pulling me. But

1:01:09

a couple of international runners, like one from the

1:01:11

States and one from the Australian that I sort

1:01:13

of paired up with, these good guys, Robin

1:01:16

Brett sort of looked after me for that night. He's

1:01:18

like, no, no, he sleeps. He doesn't feel the

1:01:20

time. He just feels like... Two mates

1:01:22

on a night out. Yeah, yeah. With your drunk mate.

1:01:24

Yeah, with your drunk mate. He's fine, mate. He's fine.

1:01:26

He's all good. I'll problem up at the bar. Same

1:01:29

sort of thing. And then like by the

1:01:31

next day, I was well enough to finish it off. Yeah.

1:01:34

You talk about type two running towards

1:01:36

the darkness. Is there any better example

1:01:38

of like, actually the darkness? When

1:01:41

you finish that race, just before we get onto

1:01:43

another story, like what is the recovery time to

1:01:46

feel, quote, unquote, normal? I

1:01:50

don't think you feel right back to

1:01:52

like running normal for months. Yeah.

1:01:54

Which is what makes doing like quite a few in a

1:01:57

year quite tough. Yeah, we're going to get to that. We're

1:02:00

gonna get to that. Like I think your body, like

1:02:02

for the first couple of days, all you want to

1:02:04

do is eat and drink and stuff.

1:02:06

Yeah, okay. You know, like if something walks

1:02:08

past you, you could possibly, you're gonna tackle it and just start

1:02:10

eating it. Yeah. Do you have a

1:02:12

go-to meal after a huge, any

1:02:14

huge run like that, like a 200 plus up? Yeah,

1:02:17

it usually starts with a couple of beers on the

1:02:19

finish line. Yeah, really. And that sort of numbs off

1:02:21

all the pain a little bit. And

1:02:24

then I find pizza, I can shove pizza

1:02:26

in my gob. Yeah. I'm

1:02:28

gonna send your spirit to you and I. I don't need a 200k

1:02:30

race for that though, that's the thing. It's

1:02:33

give me pizza, yeah. How do you

1:02:35

find pizza in Antarctica then? Uh,

1:02:39

yeah. Oh, penguin pizza's not too bad.

1:02:42

Cause that, tell us about literally freezing your

1:02:44

nuts off. Who's

1:02:46

giving you all this stuff? Oh, we got more. Don't

1:02:48

worry about that. Don't worry about that. I made the

1:02:51

mistake of telling the race organisers about this. You said

1:02:53

it once and it's done, yeah. And they put it

1:02:55

on their website and everything but, um,

1:02:59

Antartan wasn't as cold as when I was running down

1:03:01

there as I thought it would be initially, you

1:03:03

know? And so I was running in me, um,

1:03:06

tights and stuff and that and a top on.

1:03:08

I thought this wasn't too bad, but the winds

1:03:10

can really pick up down there and they can

1:03:12

pick up quick and they're freezing cold. And

1:03:16

the wind just caught us on the slab and it

1:03:18

was blowing in and the pants

1:03:20

I were in weren't windproof. And

1:03:22

the wind just seemed to be focusing on my nuts and

1:03:25

they were getting really cold. And

1:03:28

then it was like, you know, you put your hands down your pants

1:03:30

or whatever. It's like, oh, that went for a bit. And then you're

1:03:32

like, oh, this is getting really bad. I was like, what am I

1:03:34

going to do? So I thought,

1:03:36

uh, would I rather sacrifice some fingers

1:03:39

or some testicles? And I thought, oh, I've got two

1:03:41

hands I can do without some

1:03:44

fingers. So I took off the

1:03:46

inner liner, the small inner liner, my glove, and I

1:03:48

shoved a heat pack in it and I shoved it

1:03:50

down my pants. And I was

1:03:52

like, Hey, this actually works quite good. Nice. And

1:03:55

I made it to the end that I just made the

1:03:57

mistake of telling the race organizer about

1:03:59

it. And then

1:04:01

all these jokes just wouldn't stop about like, you

1:04:04

know, don't you know borrow a glove from

1:04:06

this dude Yeah,

1:04:09

all these for these that they put it on their website

1:04:11

and my mum had heard about it back home asking me

1:04:13

how But

1:04:17

like like how legit a risk is

1:04:19

frostbite in a place like

1:04:21

that. Oh, it's massive like I did a

1:04:23

race earlier this year

1:04:26

over in over in

1:04:29

Finland and then one in

1:04:31

Sweden and winter And

1:04:34

literally people got frostbite on that race Which

1:04:38

which isn't like actual frostbite. It's not like actual

1:04:40

man. It's cold. My fingers are really feeling it

1:04:43

You know, so we had this one stage where

1:04:45

we hit the side station and some storm had

1:04:47

come through early And we weren't really ran There's

1:04:49

a group of us that is shot up up

1:04:51

this hill into this bit where but it's a

1:04:54

rush They couldn't would struggle to get

1:04:56

to you and it turned to a complete white

1:04:58

out and you were literally there were

1:05:00

these big posts that you're supposed to be able to see

1:05:02

to go from one to the next and we couldn't see

1:05:04

and I hadn't

1:05:06

because the weather was calm before at the bottom.

1:05:08

I hadn't really fully Put

1:05:11

on all my gears again, and

1:05:13

I was caught and My

1:05:15

buff had frozen to my face But literally so

1:05:17

I couldn't lift it up and I

1:05:19

couldn't pull it down. So just rip your skin or your

1:05:21

beard off You know, it's like okay and

1:05:24

my nose was exposed for the bridge and

1:05:27

that was getting really cold And we're not so getting really

1:05:29

cold again because I hadn't put on my windproof ass. Yeah,

1:05:31

you don't learn the first time And

1:05:35

like I didn't have to walk backwards from one post to

1:05:37

the next to try to keep it an eye so I

1:05:39

could Get to the next one and

1:05:42

I just thought like if you stop That's

1:05:44

when it's gonna turn the shit if you try to

1:05:47

unpack your stuff to put it on It's gonna blow

1:05:49

away. You're gonna get worse. So I

1:05:51

just kept going And

1:05:53

came across a few other people that didn't keep

1:05:55

going and then had to set off the emergency

1:05:57

beacons and stuff But trying to

1:05:59

encourage them to keep going but you couldn't

1:06:02

really sort of stop with

1:06:04

them because if you slowed down and stopped then you'd

1:06:07

freeze as well. And I got into

1:06:09

the A station after that and I had frost nip which

1:06:11

is sort of the precursor to frostbite and

1:06:13

that's the one that stings like shit so when

1:06:15

the circulation starts coming back it burns and

1:06:18

like my face was burning like my nose was

1:06:20

just on fire and stuff and um but

1:06:22

they did pull out a couple of other

1:06:24

people in that that had frostbite full blown

1:06:26

frostbite and took them to hospital. Type 2

1:06:28

maybe. Yeah that was a great stage

1:06:31

that one that was awesome. We

1:06:33

had John O Riddler on the

1:06:36

podcast he's the long distance swimmer and

1:06:38

he talked about his swim from Great Barrier

1:06:40

Island to Auckland where he described some

1:06:42

of his hallucinations to us and

1:06:44

we've heard that you might have had

1:06:47

all the snowmen on the beach

1:06:49

which was really interesting but you might have

1:06:52

had some of their experience in the Atacama

1:06:54

race. Giant rabbits. Giant

1:06:57

rabbits. Well maybe I can't even remember

1:06:59

that one. Maybe. I have

1:07:01

seen a few strange things. I've always disappointed because

1:07:03

I think I haven't had a full blown hallucination

1:07:05

that some people have that they can't then explain

1:07:08

like I've always seen things and then when you

1:07:10

get closer it's like of course it's not a

1:07:12

giant rabbit of course it's not like a crocodile

1:07:14

it's um you know. Oh right.

1:07:16

Yeah it's not a full blown hallucination but

1:07:18

some people do and I've always been so

1:07:21

jealous of them. Is there

1:07:23

is there any truth to the Sahara

1:07:25

desert race that there's like a pride of

1:07:28

lions maybe that might be prowling around? Well

1:07:30

they did the Sahara one because they've struggled

1:07:32

to actually get back into Sahara they did

1:07:34

it in Namibia

1:07:37

one year and there are these

1:07:39

desert pride of lions and stuff and

1:07:42

like one day we were sort of running and there's this guy

1:07:44

in this like you know little single engine

1:07:46

plane flying over quite low we're like waving out

1:07:49

there oh this is quite cool we've

1:07:51

got the end of the stage and having a feed and there's this you

1:07:53

know typical uh you know

1:07:55

stereotypical sort of you know great white hunter looking dude you

1:07:57

know with a beard and all the rest of the out

1:07:59

there. those gears. Sorry if I'm stereotypically.

1:08:02

Well, they put it in the guy

1:08:04

in Jumanji. He looked like that. And

1:08:07

it was like, who's this dude? What

1:08:09

is he doing? He's like, oh, he's

1:08:11

the researcher for the desert pride of

1:08:13

lions. And I was like, hang on a second.

1:08:15

He was flying really low over us during the run.

1:08:17

Why was he doing that? And he's like, oh, he's

1:08:19

keeping an eye on the pride to make sure they

1:08:21

don't get too close to you fellas. And you

1:08:25

just like, and you see paw prints

1:08:27

in the sand. The paw prints always look bigger because the

1:08:29

sand I suppose, the spurs and they look bigger than what

1:08:31

they are. And they said, oh, you

1:08:33

know, it'll just be if you see some prints, it'll

1:08:35

just be a high end or a jackal or whatever.

1:08:37

And I said, Oh, geez, because I saw those

1:08:39

sort of prints, but I saw a couple that were like,

1:08:43

oh, really? So they would float into the next

1:08:45

stage to tell the people coming back behind me

1:08:47

that maybe the pride was getting a bit closer.

1:08:52

The sort of things you want to hear.

1:08:54

Yeah, just in that cast the characters of

1:08:56

people that are doing like the desert race

1:08:58

series, are they the same faces that you

1:09:00

see at different races? Hey, there he is.

1:09:02

Old big dick Steve. Is

1:09:05

there like a

1:09:07

community of people that are all type

1:09:09

two fun seekers? You mean like the NASA, it's a

1:09:11

community of NASA. Yeah, but like, you know what I

1:09:13

mean? Like, are there actual, you can see, like you

1:09:16

see, oh, there's in here. Yeah. Hey, good to see

1:09:18

you, Dave. How are you going? How's the kids? Funny

1:09:20

enough, there is like a core sort of group that

1:09:22

you will see the some of the same people from

1:09:24

event to event. Like, I never fully looked for the

1:09:26

internet listening, you show up and be like, hey, I

1:09:28

know that following you all go over and have a

1:09:30

chat. And especially in New Zealand,

1:09:32

because they're running New Zealand small, isn't it?

1:09:34

Yeah, and the running community small, you always

1:09:36

are guaranteed to start saying, like, meet somebody,

1:09:38

you know, yeah, because they're the

1:09:40

same sort of people that go in. And, but

1:09:43

I think in those multi day ones, it's such

1:09:45

a really diverse group. Yeah, like really

1:09:47

diverse from people that do a lot of

1:09:49

them, to people that would just do one

1:09:51

to people that are doing it

1:09:53

to prove something to themselves or their

1:09:55

family or whatever. So we'll

1:09:58

be right back after this. short break. That

1:10:04

was such a cool little section like just

1:10:06

moving from the desert to China to Antarctica

1:10:08

like that you've just run and had such

1:10:10

cool stories from all these places. I

1:10:13

was hoping we could just touch on your

1:10:15

father and influence that he had on you

1:10:17

because I know when you do these things

1:10:19

you have a support network and he was

1:10:22

sort of involved in races and

1:10:24

he sort of he's passed and I sort of

1:10:26

just wanted to reflect on the influence he's had

1:10:28

on you and how you dealt with that. Yes,

1:10:32

I guess it's

1:10:34

quite difficult but I guess when we

1:10:37

were growing up like

1:10:39

a lot of people I suppose you idolised your

1:10:42

father or your parents and

1:10:44

I think a lot of my sort of

1:10:46

moral standard and how I think still comes

1:10:48

from my mum and my dad

1:10:50

and probably especially my dad and the way he was

1:10:55

and at times for no

1:10:57

fault of his own he wasn't around a lot when

1:10:59

we were growing up because he was working for the

1:11:01

Maori Mission and doing God's

1:11:03

work and stuff like that and I

1:11:06

think he in hindsight when he

1:11:08

looked back on it he missed a lot of our

1:11:11

sporting events and childhood events that he wanted

1:11:13

to be there for but couldn't. So

1:11:17

when I started getting into running again,

1:11:20

when I started rehabbing from my back and stuff

1:11:22

he was quite into it and

1:11:24

then when these ultras came along and he

1:11:27

really started getting into that because it would have

1:11:30

been something I think when he was younger he

1:11:32

would have really been good at because he was

1:11:34

just like a lot of that generation he

1:11:36

was just hard. He's

1:11:38

underlying the hard bloke. So

1:11:40

he started coming along to these events and

1:11:42

he'd use any excuse to come along. A

1:11:46

couple of reasons I guess, one he wanted to be there

1:11:48

too, he wanted to get away from mum's primate so they

1:11:50

could eat some naughty food. There's

1:11:53

been a typical Maori father in

1:11:55

his later years. diabetes, gout, heart

1:11:57

disease, all sort of kicking out.

1:12:00

Man. He I give to get on on the stuff

1:12:02

in it is kind of. The things you be like are. We

1:12:05

gonna have a pizza and a beer or something and you're like. Okay,

1:12:08

Progress. When was him a pizza

1:12:11

and a be the night before and

1:12:13

then he'd shot these events. And

1:12:15

he just help himself to the racing

1:12:17

tables of food. You

1:12:20

know, So the A stations would put out the

1:12:22

I'd tables and they have a big slaves snacks

1:12:25

and stuff on us and Israel. And

1:12:27

to start helping us or think everybody was

1:12:29

too scared the till of the zone I

1:12:31

follow you'd stop doing that is it out

1:12:34

especially it had a we Are United by

1:12:36

the novel a totally old i forgot us

1:12:38

and he just like even autonomous time he'd

1:12:40

stop it just eat the stuff and. He

1:12:43

was the wish support for a variety I you loved

1:12:45

your name but he just. It

1:12:47

short summary supposed to be wouldn't be me.

1:12:50

Or. Just as you're leaving the I station

1:12:52

he'd show up a have like a suburb in

1:12:54

his hands and a newspaper or something running done.

1:12:57

All went up white a white opposite number of

1:12:59

got a tough business. Just.

1:13:03

As they the funniest thing was in them. To

1:13:05

the we're a one year. And I'm dead

1:13:08

was quite suck. At that stage

1:13:10

and the seal of did look of iran's

1:13:12

i'm transport for you to get to decide

1:13:14

station in the say station and just to

1:13:16

him or me to the and him is

1:13:18

one of the bus. On.

1:13:20

Get just down the but the fist I stations in. L

1:13:24

you hear nice the air smile and

1:13:26

away a stuffy this optimizers promote somebody

1:13:29

cousins of yours any literally found these

1:13:31

young man he goes that was ear.

1:13:34

And. He'd despite silly and vital himself to

1:13:36

get been to drive him from aid

1:13:38

station to station. and they just do

1:13:40

it. Like there was a father is

1:13:42

as but I just know that self defense in

1:13:44

the oh man was and so he was it.

1:13:46

virtually every aid station that a vehicle to make

1:13:48

it to in I help you themselves to the

1:13:51

food. And. It's

1:13:53

your relationship with running. Change.

1:13:55

As the he path did you use it. In.

1:13:58

and way to help I

1:14:02

did the opposite I think

1:14:04

for a bit like I used to run with

1:14:07

a group out at Riverhead.

1:14:10

I suppose the original sort of dirt cheats type

1:14:12

group. I used to get up

1:14:14

early in the morning, drive from town and

1:14:16

go out and run with them. And then

1:14:19

when the old man sort of passed away and

1:14:21

it was quite sudden and there was a lot

1:14:23

of things around that that I wasn't that happy

1:14:25

with. Running

1:14:28

I sort of associated with him quite a lot so I stopped

1:14:30

running for quite a bit. And

1:14:32

I remember talking to people about it at

1:14:35

the time and I'd try to go out for a run

1:14:37

and I'd be running with this group and people always do

1:14:39

it to release themselves and whatever they've had or something. And

1:14:41

they'd want to have a chat and want to talk about stuff and I

1:14:43

just didn't want to talk to people. So

1:14:46

I took the old man's death

1:14:48

pretty hard and I didn't run for

1:14:50

a while after that and it took

1:14:52

me quite

1:14:55

a while to get back into

1:14:57

running. Is

1:14:59

that softened? That ability to

1:15:01

articulate maybe and work through some of that

1:15:03

grief? It

1:15:06

has and obviously

1:15:09

like now I find running is more of a –

1:15:12

like I went for a stage of like it reminded

1:15:14

me and I didn't want that because I

1:15:16

was so negative about things. So now it

1:15:18

sort of reminds me about that and I

1:15:20

do it because I enjoy that aspect

1:15:23

of it. And you get to bits now

1:15:25

where you can talk about things more and

1:15:28

you'd get to that situation where you're in a dark space in

1:15:30

a race or whatever and you just think about your old man

1:15:32

and he'd be like, how

1:15:35

positive he would be about things

1:15:38

and that sort of helps me a bit more now.

1:15:41

So yeah, sort of switched from one to the

1:15:43

other. So now it reminds me more about

1:15:45

like, I suppose about the good times that we had and

1:15:47

how we sort of started to reconnect

1:15:49

in my older years with Dad. The

1:15:53

sort of things I missed out on maybe when

1:15:55

I was younger. Because I think as Men

1:15:57

Generally, we struggle more than we do. Women

1:16:00

in terms of. Going.

1:16:02

To the doctor or talking

1:16:04

about stuff that's bothering us?

1:16:06

Have you noticed through your

1:16:09

profession a change? In

1:16:11

that stance, Ah,

1:16:13

nothing was still pretty. But

1:16:17

I think maybe it's as I'm It's a

1:16:19

generational thing a little bit as well. Hopefully.

1:16:22

Or think maybe the younger people are

1:16:24

getting better. Or. Younger men are

1:16:27

getting better at home. To.

1:16:29

Society I guess has changed a lot from when

1:16:31

we were. And I you

1:16:33

know, eat and talk about stuff he

1:16:35

didn't. He had a problem. sort of

1:16:37

that yourself for you than tortilla mates

1:16:39

about stuff like that. Yeah, you've made

1:16:41

three. Talking. About the rugby in Honey

1:16:44

Bees You could drink on the weekend tonight

1:16:46

but now I think we are softening of

1:16:48

but. The.

1:16:52

Get your your fear uniquely placed

1:16:54

as an emergency doctor to see

1:16:57

some of the worst parts of

1:16:59

society and the trickle down effect

1:17:01

that you have to deal with

1:17:03

Ems? How do you. That

1:17:05

this will. How do you fit everything in? It's

1:17:07

like all of this running and you're also

1:17:10

an emergency doctor. We haven't even spoke about the

1:17:12

blue belt in jujitsu that you seems like you

1:17:14

got so much going on. a how do

1:17:16

you juggle if you don't. Know

1:17:19

I think know either. I juggle as I always

1:17:21

laugh when I am able to be the hey

1:17:23

where do you trying for these options of us

1:17:25

are you don't want my training plan My training

1:17:27

plan is said and it's not enough. Yeah, like

1:17:29

I don't run anywhere near enough of what you

1:17:31

should do. For an

1:17:33

ultra. I think I'm so what

1:17:36

I try to do it. I just

1:17:38

literally don't have the time as I

1:17:40

try to condition myself to be. Sort

1:17:43

of mentally and physically. Outta.

1:17:46

And that's half the stuff. When I

1:17:48

substitute my training for other things like

1:17:51

going to the gym. Because

1:17:53

sometimes years. Before. A

1:17:55

night shift? The jury, not just. I

1:17:58

struggled to light yeah, I like my. If

1:18:00

up. And the middle of a

1:18:02

night shift block and guy for three for our

1:18:04

on account of you just feel like crap. The

1:18:06

whole body just feels awful when you

1:18:08

doing not as I can sort of.

1:18:11

Suck it up the site myself up enough for forty

1:18:13

five minutes to go to the gym and from a

1:18:15

but a turn around for of it. And.

1:18:18

I find that sort of helps me. And

1:18:21

that so I substitute. A lot of the long

1:18:23

distance training was smaller things. I'm.

1:18:26

Sorry my guess would the jujitsu sort of

1:18:28

are fond of like and guys a one

1:18:31

or two seasons awake that helps a my

1:18:33

mental toughness and stuff as well and that

1:18:35

some. It's also good like yeah

1:18:37

I free car factory when they sort of

1:18:39

things around like a pretzel stuff. That

1:18:42

wix on Nicer to think so I rely more

1:18:44

on. Having. A spice been

1:18:46

slightly heavier run and than a lot of

1:18:48

other people when they line up the events

1:18:50

carrying a bit more but more muscles to

1:18:52

the trial support these joints that are going

1:18:54

to take a hemorrhage because I'm literally not

1:18:56

probably as fast. As a lot the other people.

1:18:59

Yard. Running said. And. I'm.

1:19:02

Just a talk a little bit about

1:19:05

the current state of health kit it

1:19:07

new zealand like how many modi doctors

1:19:09

idea and they did not enough donor

1:19:11

for far like literally with they've done

1:19:14

studies in they look at yards the

1:19:16

percentage off say modi that excess emergency

1:19:18

medicine. And. Give

1:19:22

or take up essential so this

1:19:24

research is pretty.eclipses. hearts at about

1:19:26

twenty percent. Of patients

1:19:28

coming in some way between the eyes of

1:19:31

you know what's possible you and sustained A

1:19:33

twenty percent of patients come in and will

1:19:35

be mounted and then you look at. The

1:19:38

percentage of mountie doctors have wiccan a

1:19:40

day and I think when it comes

1:19:42

to senior doctors are think it was

1:19:45

like point six or one percent of

1:19:47

the same a dick is a lot

1:19:49

of and they actively trying to recruit

1:19:51

more now so. i

1:19:54

think for my point of view as

1:19:56

you've gotta percent of the population using

1:19:58

a system then the miracle people providing

1:20:00

that system should reflect the same sort

1:20:03

of percentage to get you

1:20:06

know some sort of you know equity and treatment

1:20:09

and there's just not enough but

1:20:11

then there's not enough Māori

1:20:13

doctors and every specialty so I

1:20:16

can't blame the young ones coming out wanting to

1:20:18

do a different specialty because there's

1:20:20

a lot of other specialties that are

1:20:23

probably more financially

1:20:25

rewarding more family orientated

1:20:29

and a lot sort of friendlier work

1:20:31

environments than emergency you obviously

1:20:33

thought about this a lot do you have a

1:20:36

better solution than what's like would there is there a

1:20:38

way that you would do it which is different that

1:20:40

currently being done oh yeah

1:20:43

and it's just like whatever you talk about healthcare you have

1:20:46

to sort of make it clear because otherwise work

1:20:48

and other people and agencies will get upset at

1:20:50

what you say that these are all sort of

1:20:52

my opinions and my views

1:20:54

but there's a lot better way that you

1:20:57

can run health in New Zealand than what

1:20:59

it's being done the problem

1:21:01

is is that nobody wants to spend a

1:21:03

lot of money on healthcare and

1:21:06

over the success of sort of you know

1:21:09

governments and things healthcare has been

1:21:11

run on like the smell of an oily

1:21:13

rag we've always been tight

1:21:16

and then COVID fucked us for

1:21:18

one of a better term that did it really

1:21:21

bad and it just showed how underprepared

1:21:24

the healthcare system was and especially

1:21:26

certain branches of it like

1:21:29

that sort of primary healthcare

1:21:31

branches you know like GPs emergency

1:21:34

medicine who took the brunt of all this

1:21:36

sort of work when other people didn't want

1:21:38

to get the risk of infection and

1:21:41

then now over that

1:21:43

period that we've had a lot of people

1:21:45

just said hey this is the perfect time

1:21:47

to retire or quit because works too tough

1:21:50

and it is getting really tough and

1:21:53

a lot of nurses who have been horrendously underpaid

1:21:55

in New Zealand for what they're doing it's just

1:21:57

like hey I'm getting asked to

1:21:59

do more work more, the

1:22:01

conditions are shit. I can go

1:22:04

playing across the ditch that's just as quick

1:22:06

as flying from here down to Dunedin or

1:22:08

something and I can get a shit more

1:22:10

cash and get treated a

1:22:12

little bit better and they're off and

1:22:16

we've just lost senior nurses like

1:22:19

the truckload and you know

1:22:21

senior doctors are retiring, it's a

1:22:23

good time to retire, they were working because they

1:22:25

wanted to pass on stuff to the profession and now

1:22:28

they've had enough and

1:22:30

you just got a big healthcare gap that's gonna take,

1:22:33

oh it's gonna take years if

1:22:35

they put stuff in action now for it

1:22:37

to actually get back to a manageable standard. We'll

1:22:41

be right back after this short break. Does

1:22:46

this stuff make you frustrated like how

1:22:49

do you deal with knowing it could be done so

1:22:51

much better but you're sort of in the system which

1:22:54

you're gonna run eight races in eight

1:22:56

confidence next year. Yeah it's true but

1:22:58

it does make you frustrated and the

1:23:00

thing that frustrates you the most is

1:23:02

that the government at

1:23:04

times they get opinions from people who

1:23:06

don't work on the front line. I

1:23:09

mean all you really had to do with everything's

1:23:11

getting rough is come talk to the you

1:23:14

know the doctors and nurses in GP clinics

1:23:16

or in emergency departments on the front line

1:23:18

who basically either for one

1:23:20

of a better term I guess almost like the gatekeepers

1:23:22

to higher levels of health care or

1:23:25

access in New Zealand for a lot of people and

1:23:27

just find out from then what they need but

1:23:30

no they'll go spend money on ridiculous things

1:23:32

you know that they think are gonna make

1:23:35

a difference that don't and

1:23:37

then you'll get institutions

1:23:39

or things put in place that are gonna make

1:23:41

a difference and then a new

1:23:43

government will come in and they'll

1:23:45

pull those things because they didn't set it

1:23:47

up and it's almost like

1:23:49

a pissing contest of we didn't do

1:23:52

it so we're gonna get rid of it because it's not working.

1:23:54

And you're caught in the middle. And

1:23:56

you're just caught in a watching this machine. Yeah so

1:23:58

everybody comes in with these new ideas. nobody actually

1:24:00

lets it run to fruition, nobody fulfills

1:24:02

anything. And in the meantime all

1:24:05

the healthcare workers in the front are just stuck in the

1:24:07

middle, you know, and we're slaves to

1:24:09

decisions that are being made that nobody's

1:24:12

asked us opinions on, nobody gives a shit

1:24:14

about our opinions really. And then when you

1:24:17

try to voice them you get told that

1:24:19

hey you've got to make sure that these

1:24:21

are only your opinions and you don't bad

1:24:23

mouth some agency or some group

1:24:26

of people, you know, because that's they

1:24:29

try to say that's not like it's not productive

1:24:31

or it's not clear you it's not

1:24:34

the right thing to do and that's just

1:24:36

crap. Yeah you're just trying to censor the

1:24:39

people that know. And now I'm gonna

1:24:41

be fired. But it's really

1:24:43

timely like I spent seven hours in ED

1:24:45

this week with my mum and

1:24:48

it's such a I was

1:24:50

thinking this is great for me to talk

1:24:52

to you because it's such a real

1:24:55

cross-section of society all funneling

1:24:58

into the space and not

1:25:00

being able to be seen in a time that you

1:25:02

think you should be seen. And I

1:25:04

felt in that moment for someone like you

1:25:07

who's dealing with the shit because it's shit.

1:25:10

Is that a fair assumption? It

1:25:12

is and it's um and

1:25:14

it's and that's the worst side

1:25:16

of it is there's people that you want to see

1:25:19

who need to be seen and you can't do it and

1:25:22

it's either because there's too many

1:25:24

people coming into the ED and

1:25:27

there's just not enough room to see them or

1:25:29

there's not enough people exiting. So

1:25:32

if people can't get into other parts of the

1:25:34

hospital or be discharged home then they just fill

1:25:36

up an ED. And as

1:25:38

every other department in New

1:25:40

Zealand suffers because everybody's busy every

1:25:43

special is busy that little

1:25:45

bit that they can't take flows

1:25:47

back into ED. Yeah so every department might

1:25:49

be a little bit busy but then

1:25:52

that little bit builds up builds up builds up and

1:25:54

the only place they can go is emergency and

1:25:56

the mental health system in New Zealand is

1:25:59

a prime classic of

1:26:02

where shit is going wrong because people can't access

1:26:04

what they need and they get stuck in an

1:26:06

emergency department which is the worst thing and people

1:26:09

can get stuck in there for days you

1:26:11

know and you compound that

1:26:13

with a lack of a

1:26:16

lack of actual staff because

1:26:18

they're leaving or

1:26:20

they've taken better jobs or

1:26:22

they're sick because staff gets sick

1:26:24

too and especially during winter

1:26:26

and during COVID we were getting sick so

1:26:29

you could show up to work and you might

1:26:31

have supposed to have like five six doctors overnight

1:26:33

and there'd be three of you and

1:26:36

the department's pumping and people

1:26:38

are just saying we can't find anybody else and

1:26:41

it's literally deal with it. So

1:26:43

why did emergency medicine

1:26:46

for you? I think it

1:26:48

goes back for me like failing and lots of stuff

1:26:51

like I was a sort of a

1:26:53

failed anesthetic trainee and then I

1:26:55

went off to study sports medicine and

1:26:58

then I actually came to the conclusion that most

1:27:00

athletes are dicks. Sorry

1:27:03

all you professional athletes out there but some of

1:27:05

you really need to look at your attitude

1:27:08

and adjustment a little bit

1:27:12

and then I just ended up working in emergency

1:27:16

and then I don't know you sort

1:27:18

of find a spot where even

1:27:20

though at times you might not like it you sort

1:27:22

of fit and

1:27:25

I seem to fit in sometimes

1:27:28

that more of a blunt attitude

1:27:31

or a no-nonsense sort of attitude can

1:27:34

come in handy. I mean there's times where

1:27:36

you have to show sort of like you know great understanding

1:27:39

and you know sympathy and you

1:27:41

know compassion in emergency but there's also times where you've

1:27:43

got to be unafraid to put

1:27:45

your foot down and deal

1:27:48

with you know the less social

1:27:51

sides of New Zealand

1:27:53

society and humanity and actually be prepared to take

1:27:56

a risk or be prepared to not

1:27:58

put up with shit. And

1:28:00

if you do that and you look after your staff,

1:28:03

like if you look after your nursing staff and that,

1:28:06

then they respect you and like you for it.

1:28:09

And it's reciprocated. So ED

1:28:11

sort of self-selects to a certain degree. You

1:28:14

either fit in or you don't. And

1:28:16

some people will persist there who don't really fit in

1:28:19

that well. But others will

1:28:21

like, we try to keep because we

1:28:23

really like them, but they're smart and they want to

1:28:25

go do something that pays better. I

1:28:28

take my hat off to all of

1:28:30

the emergency staff because that's a, yeah,

1:28:32

I think I said it a couple of times to people that were working

1:28:34

down and I said, I don't envy your job and what

1:28:37

you have to deal with here on a day to day basis. When

1:28:40

we came up with the concept of low key

1:28:42

legends, like this is such the perfect like story.

1:28:44

Like we haven't even talked about your tour in

1:28:47

Iraq. Like we haven't had time. We've still got

1:28:49

to get to the eight and eight, which I

1:28:51

want to give enough to. So I'm going to

1:28:53

move us on. Like

1:28:57

in 2024, you hope to be the first

1:28:59

person in the world to run a

1:29:01

self-supported multi-stage ultra marathon on every

1:29:04

continent in a single year. That's

1:29:06

coming up. Like all of this is

1:29:08

the back. All of this, what we've spoken about is

1:29:10

the platform for this epic insane

1:29:13

quest you're about to go on. What

1:29:16

a logistical nightmare for planning. Are you doing

1:29:18

all the planning? Have you booked all the

1:29:20

flights and all of that? Thanks for reminding

1:29:23

me how much I haven't done in order

1:29:25

to make this work. Yeah. And

1:29:27

how behind in training I am at the moment.

1:29:29

Can I just paint a picture? Yeah.

1:29:32

You start in Queenstown and

1:29:34

then in April you've got to

1:29:36

tackle Texas and then get

1:29:39

to Namibia. You

1:29:41

get May off and then

1:29:43

in June you're over to Mongolia. You

1:29:46

get July, August off to

1:29:49

be an ED. Yeah. You

1:29:51

get back to the shittest work environment in New

1:29:53

Zealand. Then you hit

1:29:55

Chile in September. October

1:29:58

you can have off back at your job. And

1:30:00

then November you go a little jaunt, a little

1:30:02

200 km in Aussie and then you finish off

1:30:06

in Antarctica and then it's

1:30:08

Christmas. Like

1:30:10

it's a lot. It sounds really stupid doesn't

1:30:13

it? It sounds exciting, I'll be honest, it

1:30:15

does sound exciting but it also sounds like

1:30:18

a lot of airports, a lot

1:30:20

of flights to places that aren't a

1:30:22

lot of fucking Ks and

1:30:25

a lot of days and a lot of pain. You

1:30:28

should answer the first question about who organises this

1:30:30

logistical stuff because I am shit at this. That's

1:30:32

my partner Vicky. Shout

1:30:35

out to Vicky, thank God I've met you to

1:30:37

sort this shit out for me because I can't

1:30:39

organise a piss up in a brewery at times.

1:30:43

Yeah a lot of love for Vicky

1:30:45

out there, amongst your friend group as

1:30:47

well. They're the best thing that's happened

1:30:49

to them in a long time. I

1:30:51

suppose it's what every ageing marine follow

1:30:53

needs is a younger Asian girlfriend to

1:30:55

smack them around a bit. People

1:30:58

pay good money for that in other environments. And

1:31:02

to organise their lives for them a little bit. Yeah

1:31:05

so shout out to her, she also provided me with

1:31:08

my training coach with Doug to go out running with.

1:31:11

He's, by the way, there's at least

1:31:13

five. No. Yeah,

1:31:15

we'll silently just let him pass through. We'll just

1:31:17

ignore today the fact that he's just got four.

1:31:19

Four with him and one with me. No,

1:31:26

no, no, you gotta sort that. You gotta sort it. Yeah, it's

1:31:28

nice. Nice. Sorry, I've derailed

1:31:30

all eight now. Yeah, no. 20, 24, I

1:31:32

don't know where to start. I don't even know where to start.

1:31:34

Like, Quik-Wok-Kown sounds idyllic. Yeah, I mean it was something

1:31:36

that I've been thinking about for years

1:31:38

and I was probably planning to do

1:31:41

it when I was younger and fitter

1:31:44

and sort of less smart. But

1:31:46

then things always got in the way. Like

1:31:49

I did like the, that Four Deserts,

1:31:51

Grand Sam, and then I got out

1:31:53

of there and I re-enlisted and

1:31:55

I did some military service and then that

1:31:57

sort of delayed things for a couple of years and

1:31:59

then And I went for a really sort of rough time with

1:32:01

my dad passing away and then

1:32:04

my relationship falling apart and being homeless and

1:32:06

stuff again in your 40s literally

1:32:09

and then sort of trying to rebuild my life and

1:32:11

it just sort of came around that it

1:32:13

went from running for when I was 40 to like

1:32:16

you know ages already up there I'm turning

1:32:18

50 next year and it's just like how do

1:32:20

you celebrate turning 50? Usually

1:32:23

just a dinner and some drinks. And

1:32:26

then like

1:32:28

you know how do you justify going broke because literally

1:32:30

like instead of paying your mortgage you're just going to

1:32:33

be doing this stuff. And

1:32:36

then we sort of like I really wanted to do

1:32:39

it and I really wanted to promote

1:32:42

something positive

1:32:44

for young people and sort

1:32:47

of like after the white all the sort of issues and

1:32:49

stuff I had going up for school and how long it

1:32:51

took me to come to realise that you know you're

1:32:53

actually worth more than you thought and could achieve more

1:32:55

than you thought. And I thought look

1:32:58

it's a perfect time now to do this

1:33:00

because you can only do it every two years so if I

1:33:02

don't do it now you can't do

1:33:05

it for another two years because Antarctica only runs every

1:33:07

second year. And I want

1:33:09

to start up the scholarship for

1:33:11

young people. I'm going to do

1:33:13

everything next year and sort of take some time

1:33:15

off and promote the

1:33:17

scholarship and do this as part of that

1:33:20

and try to hit the record box you

1:33:22

know before you become

1:33:24

too old. The

1:33:26

way it's painted like Texas dodging snakes

1:33:28

and scorpions. Fact? I've

1:33:31

never been to Texas. All

1:33:34

I know about Texas is like these big hats.

1:33:36

Everything's bigger. Everything's bigger yeah. You've

1:33:39

done the Pridar lines in Namibia that's fine. You

1:33:42

shat yourself in Mongolia on the Gobi one. So

1:33:44

I know how to do that. Romania

1:33:47

going to Dracula's castle. That's the

1:33:49

first ever I understand. Yeah so

1:33:52

it's a young guy that's sort of a young guy

1:33:54

probably the same age as me who's organised this race

1:33:56

and it's pretty new but they just have been like.

1:34:00

I think the environment there is just going to be

1:34:02

awesome. They sound like a really good

1:34:04

group of people, small race, really into it. We told

1:34:06

them what we're doing. They're like, yep, sweet, come over.

1:34:08

We'll try to sort you out as much as we

1:34:10

can. So I'm looking forward to that. That's going to

1:34:12

be awesome. Chile, you've done? Well,

1:34:15

we're actually, the Atacama race in

1:34:17

Chile has been canceled. So

1:34:20

now to make it worse, I've got to go

1:34:22

over for South America to run the Jungle Ultra

1:34:24

in Peru. Oh, I had that on my list!

1:34:27

I had that on my list! Amazon! Yeah,

1:34:30

Jungle Ultra in Peru. And that just

1:34:32

sounds horrendous. Which will be awesome. Because

1:34:34

it's got a really high dropout rate.

1:34:36

Which sounds great. Amazon Jungle Ultra. And

1:34:38

then there's like, obviously there's all the

1:34:40

critters you're going to deal with. There's

1:34:44

just the environment being so humid. Like you're

1:34:46

sweating constantly and you can't cool down. And

1:34:50

there's other people from this year,

1:34:52

I think, that got a bit

1:34:55

of altitude sickness of stuff and other bits

1:34:57

and pieces in their lungs and

1:34:59

ended up in hospital. So it's going to be

1:35:01

awesome. I love that. It's going to be gorgeous.

1:35:03

I love it. Lighting up Aussie three-day, but you've

1:35:05

got special permission to run. Yeah,

1:35:07

so the Aussies don't have next

1:35:09

year like a classical sort of

1:35:11

multi-day, multi-stage race. Self-supported. So we

1:35:13

had to find one that was

1:35:15

as long as possible. And

1:35:18

we actually emailed the guys and said, hey, is

1:35:20

it cool if I join your race but I

1:35:22

carry all my own shit and sleep in the

1:35:24

tent? And they're like, yeah,

1:35:27

I suppose you're going to be that stupid.

1:35:29

You can do it. And they just agreed

1:35:31

to let me do it. So I'll be the only person lining

1:35:33

up with a big backpack. Oh, yeah.

1:35:37

And while everybody else goes off to the hotel

1:35:39

or whatever, I'll be, I suppose, catching a bivvy

1:35:41

or a tent somewhere and cooking up my feet

1:35:43

in a little... Fuck that's how

1:35:45

you do it. Do you have an entourage to

1:35:48

travel with you or is it just you and

1:35:50

a backpack? It's just you and a

1:35:52

backpack. Well, for the races. Yeah. Yeah,

1:35:54

so like with three self-supported is you carry

1:35:56

everything you need for seven days on your

1:35:59

back. The only thing

1:36:01

that they give you is obviously water and

1:36:04

they get an allowance sort of for every stop or every

1:36:06

night and typically something to sleep

1:36:08

under and that may be a tent or

1:36:10

it may be just like a

1:36:12

lean-to shelter or whatever, but you've got to carry

1:36:14

your sleeping bag all your food all your clothes

1:36:16

everything you need to survive so

1:36:20

Yeah, that is wicked Before

1:36:22

we jump away. The only other one I had on

1:36:24

there was Mount Everest tensing Hillary 60k

1:36:27

ultra, which is after a 10-day hike to base

1:36:29

camp. Is that on your list of things to do? Somebody

1:36:33

added that in for me. No, no, no, no. This is one

1:36:35

that I know It's

1:36:43

not on your radar no,

1:36:45

I think after next year if I'm still able

1:36:47

to Walk in with some of

1:36:49

my mates aren't replacing my hips and knees or something

1:36:52

I will probably cut it back down to like one or

1:36:54

two And

1:36:57

hopefully a fun run. Yeah, and hopefully one

1:36:59

of them will be like sort of You

1:37:02

know taking along some young people see me

1:37:04

supervising them, you know to help them do

1:37:06

the same sort of thing That'll be the idea man.

1:37:09

There's been such an epic where again towards the end, but

1:37:11

I Love asking the

1:37:13

partner of a guest what I should ask like

1:37:15

what's what's a question you'd be interested in the

1:37:17

answer to So I asked Vicki and

1:37:19

she said What

1:37:21

happens if he gets injured and

1:37:23

if it's not an injury What would

1:37:25

get in his way to prevent him from

1:37:28

completing this? She's asking me

1:37:30

that go out. She said we should ask you be

1:37:32

interested to hear your answer so

1:37:35

the way I've always looked at it is I will

1:37:40

Finish no matter what in

1:37:42

my mind unless something Catastrophic

1:37:45

happens that you can't so

1:37:47

I mean there's always bad luck, you know

1:37:50

touch wood There's always people that break things,

1:37:52

you know, break ankles snap their

1:37:54

Achilles Fall off things. We have

1:37:56

big injuries that they can't continue But

1:37:59

unless I get one of those then I'm just

1:38:01

gonna keep going because I mean everybody

1:38:03

hurts you know everybody

1:38:06

suffers just

1:38:09

to assume it's just got to deal with it

1:38:12

I was asked my mate Sam asked me once

1:38:14

he said oh you know what happens if you

1:38:16

know you're not paying and he's a very you

1:38:18

know one of those really extreme medically minded people

1:38:21

thinking about your kidneys all the rest of us

1:38:23

like why you got to kidneys mate there's one

1:38:25

paxon but yeah I

1:38:27

mean and if something does happen that obviously I can't

1:38:30

finish one of the races for some

1:38:32

reason then there's still the rest of the year

1:38:34

to try to slip in another one yeah when are

1:38:36

you happiest when

1:38:39

am I happiest I

1:38:44

probably actually out at time sorry Vicki

1:38:46

but probably more out running with the

1:38:48

dog you know if it's

1:38:50

raining especially in Auckland and the weather's a bit you

1:38:53

know just getting out having a run with the

1:38:55

dog they're sort of my happy

1:38:57

place a does that give you time do you

1:38:59

think while you're running about life or about stuff

1:39:01

or is it a zone out

1:39:04

while you're running it's more of a zone

1:39:06

out like I like these sort of things

1:39:08

because you can switch off like

1:39:11

part of my job is like literally somebody may

1:39:14

be asking you a question every form of 10 minutes you're

1:39:16

constantly in thread even when you're trying to write something somebody

1:39:18

come up hey you can you look at the CCG hey

1:39:20

you can you look at this blood test hey what do

1:39:22

you think about and you just

1:39:25

got this complete and utter interaction question

1:39:27

overload that when I go out

1:39:29

for run sometimes even with a

1:39:31

group I just like to zone out and

1:39:34

the best thing is like Doug doesn't ask

1:39:36

me any questions if he does something's wrong

1:39:38

yeah just but I

1:39:41

find that's like sort of a big zone out and

1:39:44

people ask you what you think about and at times I

1:39:47

must own out so much that you can't actually remember

1:39:49

big sections of your run yeah you

1:39:51

just sort of like just such in the just

1:39:54

enjoying things that you just switch off it

1:39:57

leads me nicely into the last question from Vicki

1:40:00

ask him who was his favorite pet. Oh

1:40:05

it's controversial. It's controversial but it's got to

1:40:07

be Doug. By hands down. Jess was going

1:40:10

to be fuming. Well Sid's going

1:40:12

to be the more the one.

1:40:14

It's hard because it was like

1:40:16

this this cat when I was flattening

1:40:18

down and after I'd sort of um yeah

1:40:21

I was living, flashing again because I'd had a pretty

1:40:23

shit social sort of life and stuff and this cat

1:40:25

just moves into the house and just said hey I'm

1:40:27

going to live with this fella he eats chicken. He

1:40:32

just sort of like moved in, made himself at home

1:40:35

and even though he's a bloody troublemaker

1:40:38

like the neighborhood hates him because

1:40:40

he just beats up other cats and steals

1:40:42

food and pushes over toddlers and stuff but

1:40:44

he's my cat and he always comes home and

1:40:47

like you know he always hangs out with me

1:40:49

and stuff so it's hard because he's probably you

1:40:52

know it's hard between him and

1:40:54

Doug because he doesn't come for rungs. Doug

1:40:57

by nose. Doug by nose. Any bits pieces?

1:40:59

No we'll start wrapping up. I just want

1:41:01

to thank you so much for coming in

1:41:03

and cheering and so much of your life

1:41:06

and giving us your time. The

1:41:08

mental strength that you have I just find

1:41:10

so inspirational and I think people can take

1:41:12

it to so many different facets of their

1:41:15

life like what you just said about I'm

1:41:17

gonna finish it no matter what you know

1:41:19

like you just can use that like there's

1:41:21

so much more toughness to people than

1:41:24

I think they realize so man

1:41:26

hell of a life like I was so excited

1:41:28

to follow your journey across the next year and

1:41:31

yeah we'll be we'll be posting it on our socials

1:41:33

every time you take off one of these bastards but

1:41:35

yeah thank you so much man it's been such a

1:41:38

cool let but I'll throw it at you.

1:41:40

Yeah echo that epic like

1:41:44

it's amazing to have this platform where I didn't

1:41:47

know you two weeks ago and

1:41:50

now you've you've kind of come into

1:41:52

our sphere by virtue of research and

1:41:55

more than the feats that you've done your

1:41:57

philosophy and your outlook and your takes on

1:41:59

society I have really resonated with

1:42:01

me today in terms of like

1:42:04

looking Beyond what someone

1:42:06

is saying or beyond what someone's thinking or beyond

1:42:08

what someone's looking like as well to Take

1:42:10

that into kind of everyday life is something that

1:42:13

I think Hopefully resonates with a lot of people

1:42:15

that listen to this as well As

1:42:17

well as the physical kind of side of things

1:42:19

as well and the challenges that you push yourself

1:42:21

through and that mental toughness Is it

1:42:23

is absolutely epic? So yeah, likewise

1:42:25

I can't wait to see eight and eight come to

1:42:27

fruition and then fuck man. I just wonder

1:42:30