0:00

Hey, so I wanted to give a

0:02

report. I have gotten my treadmill for

0:04

my uplift desk. I told you I

0:06

was gonna share my experience with that

0:09

and well, I'm easing into it. I've

0:11

already been using my uplift desk to

0:13

alternate between standing and sitting throughout the

0:15

day. Been doing that for five years

0:17

now. I love my uplift desk, but

0:19

I'm loving even more being able to

0:21

have a whisper quiet, sturdy treadmill underneath

0:23

it now to be able to get

0:25

that walk in while I'm in a

0:27

meeting. Because if you're sitting around all

0:29

day at your desk trying to do

0:31

work, you have a down and

0:33

to the right level of energy that

0:36

is just happening constantly. And I am

0:38

perking myself and picking myself back up

0:40

with my uplift desk. Now more than

0:42

ever with the treadmill attached to it.

0:44

I have been thrilled with my uplift

0:47

desk for five plus years now. You

0:49

can build your dream desk like I

0:51

did with tons of space, not just

0:53

for working on top of it, but

0:55

also storage in and underneath it. And

0:59

you can benefit too by going to upliftdesk.com and

1:01

using code BEYOND for 5% off your order. They

1:04

give free shipping, free returns, and free

1:06

return shipping, which is great. They've got

1:08

the industry leading 15 year

1:10

warranty that covers the complete desk.

1:13

Go to upliftdesk.com and use code

1:15

BEYOND for 5% off your order.

1:17

That's uplift, U-P-L-I-F-T desk.com to get

1:20

5% off your entire order

1:22

with promo code BEYOND. Hi.

1:40

Hello, and welcome back to Beyond the

1:42

To-Do List. I'm Eric Fisher and this is

1:44

a podcast about not just helping you be

1:46

more productive, but to find the real meaning

1:48

of productivity, living a meaningful

1:51

life. I am ecstatic

1:53

to welcome back to the show, again,

1:55

my friend, Jeff See. He

1:58

is a speaker, a visual. marketing

2:00

consultant, he hosts the show

2:02

Social Media News Live and

2:05

he's also worked with and produced

2:08

a wide range of content for

2:10

various companies including Guy Kawasaki, Kim

2:12

Garst, Social Media Examiner and Tailwind.

2:15

This right here is the first in a

2:17

series of three, this is the first in

2:20

a series of three episodes I'm gonna be

2:22

releasing not all at once but over the

2:24

next couple of weeks and a couple of

2:27

months that Jeff and I had. We sat

2:29

down and we talked about creativity which is

2:31

what we dive into in this conversation and

2:33

then in a future episode we're going to

2:36

talk about repurposing and in a future episode

2:38

beyond that we are going to talk about

2:40

AI and AI tools. But I

2:43

mentioned creativity, that's what this

2:45

conversation focuses on. We're going to

2:47

talk about the importance of

2:49

fostering curiosity and cultivating diverse inputs

2:51

to inspire your creativity but

2:53

then we also talk about a

2:56

system for capturing and organizing

2:58

ideas, dipping into Thiago Forte's Building

3:00

a Second Brain and his Para

3:03

System, P-A-R-A. But then also

3:05

we talk about creative rituals including

3:07

journaling and tools like the

3:09

Pomodoro Technique and then

3:11

we also touch on napping for

3:13

creativity and productivity and effective napping

3:16

routines. And also we

3:18

talk about the significance of humor

3:20

and laughter to enhance your creativity

3:22

and productivity. This conversation is

3:24

packed with so much I'm just gonna

3:26

get out of the way and say

3:28

enjoy this conversation with Jeff C. Alright,

3:31

well I want

3:34

to jump into a conversation about creativity

3:36

for business people. This is one of

3:38

the things that I think business people

3:40

they get started, they have this flurry

3:42

rush of intense passion, that's what caused

3:44

them to one have the original idea

3:46

but two start the business and some

3:48

people they constantly get ideas but they

3:50

don't know where to park them, they

3:52

don't know how to mold them, move

3:54

them, mesh them. But my friend

3:56

Jeff C. who is a

3:58

studier of creativity. and a

4:01

practitioner, I would say, is here

4:03

to talk about creativity for business

4:05

people. Jeff, I want to start

4:07

by asking the question, how do

4:09

you define creativity, especially in the

4:11

context of business building and creation?

4:14

You know, it's funny to ask that because

4:16

a lot of people say, like, I'm not

4:18

creative. When they think of creativity, they think

4:20

of, like, Leonardo da Vinci and these, you

4:23

know, the pop artists on there. And I

4:25

really do believe that everybody has a creative

4:28

bone in their body. I mean, accountants

4:30

can be creative. Teachers are especially creative.

4:32

You talk to any kindergarten teacher, they're some

4:34

of the most creative people that you

4:36

see on the planet. There's a stigma,

4:38

like, you have to be this, like, this

4:40

starving artist or, like, go and learn

4:42

at the feet of the masters to

4:44

be a creative person. And I just

4:47

don't think that's true. I think creativity

4:49

is actually just taking things that you

4:51

know and looking around you and coming

4:54

up with ideas and taking things kind

4:56

of outside of the box. You try

4:58

to condition yourself and use different processes

5:01

and think of new ideas to apply

5:03

to your business. Like, what

5:05

can I do different outside of the

5:07

competition? You know, getting more people to

5:09

see my product. Creativity is just using

5:11

the years of wisdom and what you've

5:13

learned in school and in your experience

5:16

and kind of putting them in a

5:18

blender and taking them out into a

5:20

different form or function. That's

5:22

a great definition. You didn't give, like, a

5:25

creativity is this and this and this and

5:27

this equals this. Like, there's no math equation

5:29

because, again, that's partly why creativity is such

5:32

a hard thing to wrangle, to pull together.

5:34

I think one of the things that you

5:36

kind of addressed there and brought up in

5:38

a way is that creativity and business are

5:41

not opposing things. I think, you know, there's

5:43

the whole, oh, you sold out, you know.

5:45

But I think that's the thing is, like,

5:48

most business owners, they get into their business

5:50

because they're passionate about the idea, they were

5:52

Creative and they want to make money and

5:54

or serve all of the above. There's all

5:56

those different reasons. I Think one of the

5:59

things that most... People don't realize is

6:01

that we're very familiar with the term

6:03

patriarch or that the service petri on

6:05

these days and that kind of a

6:07

morphing of the word p trend and

6:09

mean Michelangelo was paid to create his

6:11

art is patrons, gave him the money

6:13

and then he went off and did

6:16

the thing. And so commerce has been

6:18

part of this the whole time so

6:20

it really needs to be and stigmatized

6:22

is a great book about this Jeff

6:24

Coins real artist. don't starve I think

6:26

is what it's called A, but we

6:28

can throw that in. Shown us. It's.

6:31

A great d stigmatizing book for

6:33

entrepreneurs and business owners. It helps

6:35

creatives that know the creative get

6:37

into the business side of things,

6:39

but it also helps business people

6:42

tap into their creativity. Day.

6:44

In day out though. I think the thing

6:46

is is yeah you get some people to

6:48

have ideas all the time, but what about

6:50

problem solving with that creativity? That's really what

6:52

we're being creative about. His were creative a

6:55

lot of problems and coming up with a

6:57

solution for customers. So. One of

6:59

the things that I think one of

7:01

the best things to do to be creative

7:03

in any business is not just to

7:05

look to your competitor. So if you're a

7:08

flower shops you don't just look at the

7:10

floor us and see what they're doing with

7:12

their and copy is what they're doing

7:14

to bringing customers. Would you need to go

7:16

look at his the amusement park. How is

7:19

Disney getting people in their doors house people

7:21

when they first come into a Disney

7:23

store? what are their eyes drawn to first

7:25

is looking at these other industries and taking

7:28

those ideas and tools. And things that they're

7:30

being successful with in applying those to your

7:32

business. I was saying with the flash applicant.

7:34

an amusement park? Do they have certain sounds

7:36

that they're using either? Smells this? You know

7:39

you're a flower shop. You prices know pretty

7:41

good. You know if we see probably have

7:43

some of those. It's snowing flowers at the

7:45

front when people first come into your store.

7:48

but when have a big display What? what?

7:50

What things can you take from Disney and

7:52

apply it to your business ideas? You dizzy

7:54

because everybody knows of Disney and they're famous

7:56

for their customer service. But there's been. Books

7:59

written of the out. How Disney really

8:01

analyzes is customer service analyzes. It's traffic

8:03

what people see. They invented the snow.

8:05

I think it's a snow either where

8:07

they actually pipe in smells on the

8:09

rides and actually out in their food

8:11

courts and stuff like that that other

8:13

industries have taken now and using for

8:15

their own purposes. So I think the

8:18

best thing too young to prose Creative

8:20

Juices go and is not just to

8:22

the looks at the people who are

8:24

you know in that knew I'd the

8:26

same I B M the same you

8:28

know Dell computers but look outside. Of

8:30

the Box and Apple is famous for doing

8:32

this. They do a lot of studies on

8:34

different things and try to apply into their

8:36

design and you know the way they do

8:38

business. It sounds to me like

8:40

we want to create a kind of

8:42

work flow. A creative work flow not

8:45

in terms of the output, but in

8:47

terms of the input. And. You

8:49

wanna kind of foster a curiosity? Not

8:51

just about your own kind, a nice

8:53

or industry whatever your business is, but

8:55

about the world and how people are

8:57

putting themselves for what you know, what

9:00

they're doing, how they're doing. It's have

9:02

constant kind of newsfeed if you will

9:04

or curated news feeds. how do you

9:06

do that? How to you'd select your

9:08

inputs. Just we all know we can

9:10

go to the internet and it's just

9:12

an overwhelming firehouse. Exactly. Well first

9:15

of all do things that interest you. I'm

9:17

it's in Disney because I think there one

9:19

the most creative companies there are out there.

9:21

You mentioned Just going to put the you

9:24

mentioned earlier. one of my favorite books about

9:26

creativity for businesses is principally eighth by Ed

9:28

Catmull who was one of the founders of

9:30

Pixar. and it's not only a great book

9:33

about creativity in the workplace but also how

9:35

you manage creative teams for he been that

9:37

he talks about and a minute casting way

9:39

to teams because teams are a big part

9:42

of where you find different ideas because. when

9:44

you have a group of people the more diverse

9:46

and the more people that you can get to

9:48

come of those ideas the better and more creative

9:51

bit those ideas will be so he has a

9:53

code in there if you give a good idea

9:55

to a mediocre team they will screw it up

9:57

if you give up mediocre idea to a brilliant

9:59

the They will either fix it or

10:01

throw it away and come up with something better.

10:04

I love that idea of, you know, you

10:06

ask how I get my ideas. One

10:08

of the things is I ask other people. I'm in different

10:10

groups. I'm in different

10:12

masterminds. The more stimulus

10:14

you can get from, you know, very parts

10:17

of the world, the more creative you are.

10:19

And that way you're able to take things

10:21

from different areas and apply them. Like, I

10:23

love to do wood carving. I also like

10:25

music. I'm not just, you know, this guy.

10:28

I have all these multiple things. The same

10:30

way with your business, look outside of

10:32

those things. Get your team involved in

10:34

creative projects. You don't have to sit

10:36

there and hold hands and sing Kumbaya

10:39

or whatever. But you can have creative

10:41

things that they can do and then

10:43

applaud them and give them the reins

10:45

and freedom to be creative in their

10:47

work. Because a lot of times the

10:49

atmospheres I've seen in business can be

10:52

very, very stifling. And like, yeah,

10:54

we want you to be creative, but then they

10:56

really don't. They want you to do what you've

10:58

always done. And that's just going to give you

11:00

the same old, same old and not you let

11:02

you kind of go to the next level with

11:04

your business and also creativity. Now,

11:07

I know that a lot of business owners probably

11:09

find themselves, as far as from the experiences that

11:11

I've seen and heard interacting with them, they feel

11:13

like they're on a spectrum and not necessarily in

11:16

between. They feel like I had that one great

11:18

original idea and now I have none. Or

11:21

I have all these ideas constantly like the

11:23

fire hose and they don't know what to

11:25

do with them because they've got so many

11:27

and they can't act on any or all

11:29

of them. What would you prescribe to both

11:31

ends of the spectrum there? So

11:33

one of the things, and this goes back to the

11:35

Creativity Ink book, is that you want to fail often.

11:37

You know you've heard that and fail forward. Everybody says

11:39

it's kind of a thing. But

11:42

to try those things and, again, if you

11:44

have a team, try them and move quickly.

11:48

Like Especially if you have a bunch of ideas

11:50

and you don't know which one is going to

11:52

resonate with your audience or your leads that you're

11:54

trying to get into your business. So You've got

11:56

to put stuff out there and then when you

11:58

start seeing some traction, move quickly. The and put

12:00

out more container or move in that direction

12:02

and that's working. If you're stuck for like

12:05

ideas like you know a lot of our

12:07

friends in a lot of people probably listen

12:09

and are you there sold for New Years

12:11

or they're really small business and they're like

12:13

almost didn't like. Okay I had one great

12:15

idea. I don't know what to do next.

12:18

like if you're putting together a video series

12:20

like I did. a great idea and it

12:22

went really well and then like oh dang

12:24

it now what would I do and the

12:26

best thing I would say is to get

12:28

out and get into different. Environment for a

12:31

while. If you're able to take your team

12:33

and go even on like you know, meet

12:35

at lunch, it's somewhere else you know, like

12:37

go by a big retreat and go out

12:39

there and spend all this money. If you

12:41

could just change your environment for little bit

12:44

subsidies, go outside or you could do something

12:46

creative together even if it's something like okay,

12:48

we're going to play win, lose or draw

12:50

it a day during this time and we're

12:52

going to come up with these ideas. One

12:54

of my favorite creative geniuses: As Duncan Mortal,

12:57

he was the head of innovation at Disney.

12:59

He's got all. Sorts of things where he

13:01

uses mixed media like killed have drawings things

13:03

to. One of his things is where he

13:05

gives you a character. You're supposed to tear

13:07

piece of paper behind your back in the

13:09

shape of that figure and it is Uses

13:11

these different senses and it gets those creative

13:13

things moink. You. Don't have to be

13:15

a duck and mortal, but you can do

13:18

really creative things to try to get your

13:20

team's juices flowing and you can also do

13:22

that with yourself. You could go out for

13:24

a walk you to go to to museums.

13:27

Julia Cameron I just ended up ah yes

13:29

with her and she talked about having artist

13:31

dates were once a week you take yourself

13:33

somewhere where you want to learn more about

13:36

as as a museum if is to go

13:38

see a garden somewhere or a zoo or

13:40

whatever. but you have these artist states where

13:42

you take yourself out and learn something. In

13:45

a new environment and I think that's super

13:47

important and can really get those reduces going.

13:50

i think that's great advice and yeah i've

13:52

got an echo duncan mortal him we were

13:54

in the same room for an event that

13:56

he was that he had a certain slotted

13:59

amount of time And the people running

14:01

the event could see the impact he was making

14:03

and just said, you know what, we're going to

14:05

rearrange the schedule. They threw it out. They changed

14:07

things up for the rest of the day and

14:09

let him keep going. I think he was supposed

14:11

to have an hour, hour and a half. And

14:13

I think he ended up getting double that time

14:16

and it was well worth it. When I say

14:18

muscle memory, a lot of people think, oh yeah,

14:20

your muscles, they've learned things. No,

14:22

when people say muscle memory, it actually means neural

14:24

pathways. And the neural

14:26

pathways were forming anew in

14:29

that room at that time. I just

14:31

couldn't help but think that that was amazing. One

14:34

thing is to be creative in terms of

14:36

ideation and having them come together. But what

14:38

kind of system should we be looking at

14:40

in terms of, you know, we come across

14:42

something that inspires us, whether it's a swipe

14:44

file, whereas we're, you know, swiping through, literally

14:47

swiping through Instagram, although the term comes from

14:49

way further back than then where you'd rip

14:51

a page out of a magazine and put it in

14:54

a file folder drawer. And then when

14:56

you got creatively dry, you'd pull that open and pull

14:58

all those out and look through them. It's kind of

15:00

what you were talking about earlier. So curating those sources.

15:02

But once we have all those feeds, those

15:04

inputs, we're getting outside the box,

15:06

we're getting outside of our normal

15:08

environment and or niche and industry,

15:10

and we're getting all those ideas

15:12

though. It's one thing to have

15:14

those, collect those, curate those. It's

15:17

another entirely to start to act

15:19

on those. And that's

15:21

kind of what I was getting at with that

15:23

spectrum is that you've got some people, they have

15:25

so many ideas. They need to

15:27

learn how to park those in a

15:29

place that when now is not the

15:31

time, it can sit there and percolate

15:34

and simmer and backburner for the

15:36

right time with maybe other ideas

15:38

and ingredients that come in. What

15:41

does all of that kind of

15:43

process, catalog, workflow look like for

15:45

you? So I've been

15:48

a big fan of creating a second

15:50

brain. Tiago Forte is the guy who

15:52

kind of created this and he uses

15:54

the Para System which is projects, areas,

15:57

resources, and archives. I've

16:00

been a big fan of using this. I use

16:02

Notion actually now. I switched over to it. That's

16:04

a software where you can kind of create anything

16:06

you want out of it. It's really, really popular.

16:08

But one thing, it lets me capture stuff. So

16:10

like, I see something that really interests me. Instead

16:12

of going down that rabbit hole, I can capture

16:14

it and put it to my second brain. And

16:17

then later on, it's usually, for me, it's

16:19

on Fridays, I'm able to sit down and

16:21

I go through and I actually organize all

16:23

those thoughts and things that I had for

16:26

a week. And those go into projects, right?

16:28

So projects are things that I'm actively working

16:30

on. These are like a building another course

16:32

or something that's an actual project. Areas are

16:34

things about my life. Like we mentioned before,

16:36

I love amusement parks. I love music. I

16:39

love wood carving. Those are areas. And so

16:41

I have places to stick those. They

16:43

don't have to be projects, but I can take

16:45

those areas and make them projects. And I have

16:48

a place to stick that kind of stuff. Resources

16:50

is just stuff like, hey, podcasting. I

16:52

do podcasting. Hey, I do video editing. Those

16:54

are where I'm gonna throw, like here is

16:56

what's happening, and

16:58

YouTube in 2024. Oh, that's a great article. I'm

17:00

gonna save that and put that to some one of

17:02

my resources sections. And archive is what it is. Like

17:04

after things are done, like I had a project for

17:07

2023 taxes that I

17:09

was constantly working on and I had to

17:11

get done. And so when that's done, hopefully

17:13

it's over. Actually archive it. I

17:15

can dump it into there. So having

17:17

that for creative people or even people

17:19

who struggle with having a bunch of

17:21

ideas and then not knowing where to act

17:24

on them, having a system like this lets you

17:26

see a bird's eye view, kind of

17:28

look at what's working and what needs to be done, what

17:30

needs to be done next. And

17:32

I never struggle with

17:34

why, we mentioned this earlier, like,

17:37

okay, I did a great video. What do I

17:39

do next? Well, I already have stuff that I

17:41

can go to and I don't

17:43

have that anxiety feeling of like, I've

17:45

gotta be creative now. I've

17:47

kind of like seeded creativity in the future. So

17:50

anybody who struggles with that or wants to go

17:52

down that route, I highly recommend Thiago Forte's Building

17:54

a Second Brain book and then his Paris system.

17:56

He's got a second book that came out about

17:58

that, but it's really, really, really good in kind

18:01

of organizing that creativity. It's helped me out a ton.

18:04

Selling a little, or

18:07

a lot, Shopify

18:09

helps you do your thing however

18:11

you cha-ching. Shopify

18:14

is the global commerce platform that helps you

18:16

sell at every stage of your business. From

18:21

the launch your own online shop

18:23

stage to the first real store

18:25

stage, all the way to the

18:27

did we just hit a million

18:29

orders stage, Shopify's there to help

18:31

you grow. Whether you're selling scented

18:33

soap or offering outdoor outfits, Shopify

18:36

helps you sell everywhere. From their

18:38

all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person

18:40

POS system, wherever and whatever you're

18:42

selling, Shopify's got you covered. Shopify

18:44

helps you turn browsers into buyers

18:46

with the internet's most converting checkout,

18:50

36% better on average compared to other leading

18:52

commerce platforms. And sell more with less

18:54

effort thanks to Shopify magic, your AI-powered

18:56

all-star. And because of all this, what

18:58

I love about Shopify is no matter

19:00

how big you wanna grow, Shopify is

19:02

giving you everything you need to take

19:04

control and take your business to the

19:07

next level. Sign up for a $1

19:09

per month trial period

19:11

at shopify.com/beyond, all lowercase.

19:13

Go to shopify.com/beyond now

19:15

to grow your business

19:17

no matter what stage

19:19

you're in. shopify.com slash beyond.

19:22

TIAA is on a mission. Why?

19:25

Because 54% of black Americans don't

19:27

have enough savings to retire. So

19:30

in collaboration with big name artists like

19:33

Wyclef Jean, TIAA released Paper Right, new

19:37

music inspiring a new financial future. With 100%

19:39

of streaming sales going to a nonprofit that

19:43

teaches students how to invest. Stream

19:45

Paper Right now and help close the gap. Hey

19:53

there, did you know Kroger always gives

19:55

you savings and rewards on top of

19:57

our lower than low prices? And

19:59

when you To download the Kroger app, you'll enjoy over

20:02

$500 in savings every week with digital coupons.

20:04

And don't forget fuel points to help you

20:06

save up to $1 per gallon

20:08

at the pump. Want to save even

20:11

more? With a boost membership, you'll get double

20:13

fuel points and free delivery. So shop and

20:15

save big at Kroger today. Kroger,

20:17

fresh for everyone. Savings

20:19

may vary by state. Restrictions apply. See site for

20:21

details. I

20:25

think the other key thing here is then, okay,

20:27

you've got all these different ideas. You've

20:29

got your system, your inputs, all

20:32

of these different things. You're becoming

20:34

inspired consistently. So you've got the system

20:36

set up. But then I

20:38

think there's also other creative practices

20:41

daily, weekly, those creative rituals.

20:44

Talk to me about some of these rituals

20:46

that help you. And I don't just mean

20:48

like monitoring all the different inputs that come

20:50

in, but like what are the other things

20:52

that keep you honed and centered and focused

20:54

and allow you to choose

20:57

correctly? You never can know.

20:59

Life's a game and you play it

21:02

the best you can, but helps you

21:04

make those best choices as you're going

21:06

through your business. Well, a lot

21:08

of people and a lot of people who

21:10

are trying to be more creative, and I'll

21:12

go back to Julia Cameron because she's famous

21:14

for having what she calls morning pages where

21:16

she writes out and it's just like freeform

21:18

writing. It's not any sort of trying to

21:20

write a book or anything. It's just like

21:22

your thoughts for the day, da, da, da,

21:24

da, da. And she writes out three pages

21:26

long hand. That's her morning pages. The artist

21:28

way, I think is what her book is

21:30

called. And a lot of people do that.

21:32

I do something similar, but I use an

21:34

app called Day One and I journal. I've

21:36

been journaling for the last three years.

21:39

I have it set up so like I can't get

21:41

in my office unless I journal because it's chained to

21:43

a habit that I've set up where I have to

21:45

unlock my office and that journal button's right there beside

21:48

it. So it makes me do that before I get

21:50

up. So that's kind of a little hack. If you

21:52

want to journal more, she swears that you have to

21:54

use long hand. I don't because I

21:56

would never be able to read what I have

21:58

done. So I don't do that. But that's something

22:00

that you can do, that's a practice. And

22:02

journaling can help get those creative things going.

22:05

It also can help you offload something.

22:07

And I know we've talked about this before,

22:09

Eric, on like your productivity stuff, is being

22:11

able to do a mind dump of stuff,

22:13

like either when you're leaving your office or

22:15

you're getting started, or you need to just

22:18

offload stuff during the day. That's once again,

22:20

that's what I use. For me, getting overwhelmed

22:22

with stuff I'm seeing online and people, ideas

22:24

that are coming up, that can overwhelm me

22:26

and I kind of get into like a

22:28

vapor lock and being able to just dump

22:30

those into my second brain, knowing that

22:32

they're captured somewhere, releases so much anxiety

22:34

from me that I can focus and

22:37

start doing those tasks. You talked about

22:39

like what tasks and processes to do that as

22:41

well. So what I usually do is like when

22:43

I'm finally found a task that I need to

22:46

focus on that's in a project that I need

22:48

to do, is I have a thing called focus

22:50

to do, which is pretty much I enter my

22:52

task list and it makes a Pomodoro timer and

22:55

it makes me focus on those because a lot

22:57

of creative people, we do struggle with focus. And

22:59

so having tools and tricks and hacks to allow

23:01

you to focus better, that helps me a

23:03

ton. So I can focus for 25 minutes and

23:05

I get a break and then I can go

23:07

on and do it again or I can check

23:09

that task off. But using something like that to

23:12

help you focus is a

23:14

huge way to actually not just,

23:17

anybody can be creative, but if you don't

23:19

use that creativity to actually do something, you're

23:21

just scatterbrained all over the place. So you

23:24

have to harness your creativity and get

23:26

the superpower of it. And by using like focus to do

23:28

where you can focus on those tasks, I think is a

23:30

must do and really can be a game changer for your

23:33

business. Oftentimes I think of

23:35

all that curation and systematizing and

23:38

pulling things together as the gathering of the clay.

23:40

And then there's this other side of it where,

23:42

well, you gotta get it up on the table,

23:44

then you gotta pair it down and kind of

23:46

mold it and move it. I'm thinking of the

23:48

movie ghost for some reason and I don't want

23:50

to, but. Thank you for that.

23:52

You're welcome. But There are other

23:55

practices here too that I know you

23:57

know about in terms of, like for

23:59

example., I know you and I are

24:01

both very big proponents of napping for

24:03

the sake of creativity. Talk about that

24:06

a little bit. More. I

24:08

think you and when he told me the

24:10

term napa Chino which is a great term

24:12

and I use it almost daily is I

24:14

have a cup of coffee in the like

24:17

you know, one thirty two o'clock hour and

24:19

take like a twenty minute nap and that

24:21

allows the caffeine to hit and I wake

24:23

up. And. This gives you

24:25

a little too if you need during the afternoon.

24:27

So now the Chinos Eric Fisher I don't have

24:29

you view of the idea but I'm giving you

24:31

can I did not. I a It was a

24:33

guest on my show and I can't remember who

24:35

it was specifically. I know that there's been a

24:37

couple of people who have brought that up as

24:39

a thing, but yeah it's one of the things.

24:42

I've also heard something like cappuccino something or other

24:44

are no anyway. but yeah that that's one of

24:46

things. I've also heard that and I forget where

24:48

I think you know who it is. There was

24:50

the guy who he would put something in his

24:52

hand and they would sit nut so that it

24:54

was a. Famous Inventor and he was either

24:56

as the Benjamin Franklin idea morbidity actually have

24:58

like a plate with like some coins on

25:00

and in this as he and again fall

25:02

asleep. It. Would drop and then it would

25:05

come up so it's not healthy but a

25:07

lot of asleep by var bedside we have

25:09

our phones which is he get rid of

25:11

those as important but have a way you

25:13

can capture ideas like at night or when

25:15

you wake up or when you take that

25:17

nap in the afternoon. Lotta times things will

25:19

be percolating in your brain that a wake

25:21

up and your oh that's I figured it

25:23

out lot of people or of proponents of

25:25

nap area on a Huffington as a whole

25:27

book on the Prince Asleep or friend Michael

25:29

say it peas and big proponent of taking

25:31

naps a during the day so. It doesn't

25:34

have the taboo thing like all your

25:36

lazy I mean there's actually it's places

25:38

I think in might even googles offices

25:40

where the have nap rooms businesses are

25:42

starting see the importance of having them

25:44

young, prices, arrests and also places for

25:46

creativity and that nice debt to happen

25:48

like ping pong tables are places where

25:50

they can go and do stuff together

25:52

to did those creative juices flowing so

25:54

I insist. That. the more creative work

25:56

place and replace reason rest as a more

25:58

more companies are see seeing how important

26:01

that is for the long-term health

26:03

and actually productivity and actually profit

26:05

of their company. There are a

26:07

lot of business owners out there who

26:09

they either find themselves up early deciding

26:11

to hustle in the margins there, whether

26:14

they have a family or what their situation

26:16

is. They decide while the world is asleep,

26:18

whatever that world shape takes or looks like,

26:21

I'm up before them and

26:23

I'm getting a good hour, two hours or whatever done

26:25

then. Then there's also the

26:27

people that are up into the night and I think the nap

26:29

is that unifying thing that helps

26:32

both people on the ends of

26:34

the spectrum, whatever their chronotype is,

26:36

they're able to hit reset. In some

26:38

ways, it's like getting two days. In

26:40

the same way that sleeping overnight differentiates

26:42

our days, having naps does that too.

26:44

I think a lot of people, they

26:46

think, naps are for kids or they

26:48

think, I've tried taking naps, it

26:50

didn't work. I think the key thing that

26:53

I've heard when it comes to naps from

26:55

most people as to why they don't work

26:57

is because they're taking them too long. They're

27:00

falling actually into actual REM sleep. Stay at

27:02

that surface level, 20 minutes. If

27:04

you find you don't fall asleep right away, when I do

27:06

it, I use Apple Watch. I go on

27:08

Do Not Disturb. I set it for 35 minutes or

27:11

45 minutes depending and I just know

27:13

it's going to take me 10 minutes

27:15

or 15 to actually get there and then I'll get a

27:17

good 20, 25-ish and then I'm up. You

27:21

don't want to fall into the sleep

27:23

cycle or the beginnings of that because

27:25

then that sleep inertia is the term.

27:28

That's what makes you groggy. That's the thing is

27:30

most people are like, I took a nap. I ended up

27:32

more groggy on the other end. Then it

27:34

was like, why? What was the point? I

27:37

highly encourage every business owner out there to

27:39

consider the creative as

27:41

well as the energy giving benefits

27:43

of a nap because when it

27:46

comes down to it, it gives

27:48

you more time than if you

27:51

were to just plow through. Sit

27:54

here with loud headbanging music or whatever your forte

27:56

is and doing that. Speaking of, I know

27:59

there's a tool. both used in the past,

28:01

Brain FM, that's a great one. What's your experience

28:03

been with that in terms of creativity? So

28:06

one that helps you drown out stuff. And I

28:08

really do think, you know, there's

28:10

controversy both ways about the brainwaves and does

28:12

it really work? Does it not? I

28:14

tend to think it does. At least it helps

28:17

me when I need to focus or concentrate. If

28:19

I can put on those, put in Brain FM

28:21

and they also have some really good, like when

28:23

I want to take that nap in the afternoon

28:25

and I feel like I can't get the sleepiest

28:27

that I want to get. I put on some

28:30

of their sleep music and it really does help

28:32

me. There's one that I use, it's like my

28:34

go-to is like highlighted, like if they ever went

28:36

away I'd have to like track them down and you know

28:38

find it and you know make them download it for me.

28:41

But I use it all the time for that

28:43

nap thing. I do want to go back and

28:45

talk about, because you mentioned something that really got

28:47

me thinking is that you said, you know, like

28:49

when we were kids, we took a nap. Yes,

28:51

and we fought it. And man, I wish I

28:54

could knock some sense into myself. There's

28:56

a lot of things about creativity that, you know,

28:58

when we're kids that we have that we tend

29:00

not to do when we're adults. Duncan Wardle mentioned,

29:03

you know, stuff like, you know, we don't sing

29:05

out loud like we do when we're kids anymore

29:07

and now we only sing in the shower. And

29:09

that's where our best ideas come from. He goes,

29:11

oh, is there a correlation? You know, I thought

29:14

that was really interesting. I just came across this

29:16

in a book that I was reading about laughter

29:18

and humor and how important that is for creativity.

29:20

And it says the average four-year-old laughs 300 times

29:22

a day. And

29:24

then the average 40-year-old laughs 300 times every 7.5 days.

29:31

Around age 23, the average person falls

29:33

off what researchers call the humor cliff,

29:36

and we start to laugh and smile

29:38

less and less. And I think

29:40

you don't have to have like higher a comedian

29:42

to come in, but the more we can find

29:44

humor in what we're doing and we can laugh

29:46

together at breaks, you don't

29:48

have to be goofy, but the

29:51

importance of laughter and humor and

29:53

fun on creativity and how that

29:55

creativity can trickle down into the

29:57

workplace. There's more and more research coming

29:59

out. That last year and humor and

30:01

smiling and you know those kinda things and

30:03

how they affect work. He can't deny it.

30:05

And how can we use that as business

30:07

owners and creatives and content creators? How can

30:10

we use that to take our content in

30:12

our busy next level? I think we really

30:14

need to look at some of but what

30:16

you said about the kids really made me

30:18

think about as a kid. Well. What

30:20

you just said has sparked and me.

30:22

I remember that i especially late in

30:24

college when I really started to get

30:27

a handle on it like it was

30:29

kind of and is like oh my

30:31

gosh what I get myself into and

30:33

then slowly over time I was able

30:35

to cram for years in the five

30:37

and graduates and not everybody graduates by

30:39

the way and that's okay but for

30:41

me I really enjoyed studying communications and

30:43

in some of those communication courses with

30:46

my classmates who were in the same

30:48

courses in they were trying to all.

30:50

In my major I'd grown real deep relationships

30:52

and one of the things that came out

30:54

of that was I noticed I paid more

30:56

attention and or got more out of it

30:58

if I was playing in class of I

31:01

was trying to do in the back of

31:03

the room. Mystery Science Theater three thousand kind

31:05

of throw a jokey thing in less and

31:07

hopefully that you know the lecture or the

31:09

you know professor didn't hear it. It.

31:11

Helped. When. You last, you listen

31:13

more. I just really thinking when I do

31:15

presentations of i was trying to put humor

31:18

in it because I think that it's part

31:20

of who we are. There's a reason why

31:22

cat videos are so popular. ah and the

31:24

Rio's and Tic Toc because they make us

31:26

last or there's something funny about it or

31:28

there's something that hits his part of who

31:30

we are and sparks that creativity. And so

31:32

I don't think we should discount that and

31:34

off because I think it's a very very

31:36

important of are who we are made to

31:39

be. Again, It's a

31:41

perspective. It's a mindset shift

31:43

that helps us to treat

31:45

people better, operate our businesses,

31:48

better interact with the world,

31:50

better receives information, better pay

31:52

attention. In other words, were

31:55

engaged instead of on auto

31:57

pilot were engaged and humor.

32:00

And creativity play a huge part when it

32:02

comes to that sell. The one last thing

32:04

I can think of is we've got all

32:06

these ideas. We may be got more ideas

32:08

that we need. How. Do we go

32:10

about testing them/deciding Ah you know I

32:12

wrote that a month ago or all.

32:14

that's a good idea from a year

32:16

ago. Oh what was I think him?

32:18

How do you differentiate in other words

32:20

and are you love cooking in real

32:22

life Like actual cooking. Metaphorical cooking with

32:24

our ideas. What is that process look

32:26

like in terms of determining which we

32:28

pick and choose and task and which

32:30

were like air that when goes back

32:32

in the freezer for awhile. Yeah,

32:35

I think one of the things is not

32:37

to be scared to fail. You're going to

32:39

put out seekers like they're just gonna go

32:41

in there going to fall flat people get

32:43

what you're trying to say and it's gonna

32:45

be okay with that. And the other thing

32:47

is I think I'm busy before is that

32:49

will having a group of people that you

32:51

can bounce stuff off of even if it's

32:53

three or five people that you meet with

32:55

regularly and say listen, I'm thinking about doing

32:57

this. Am I missing something here And you

32:59

need our people who aren't just yes men

33:01

or yes women and I'll just like oh

33:04

that's great You. Know what? your mom, your mom's

33:06

was no leverage gonna do in this race is

33:08

your mom. She loves you that you need a

33:10

happy blue tell you buy truth lies. Yeah.

33:13

That. May go the wrong way. I

33:15

don't think you're gonna. that logo doesn't look like

33:17

what you think it looks like is something that

33:20

you're going to get some comments on on Instagram

33:22

so you really need it. Had the people that

33:24

you bring that stuff in front of and I

33:26

mean it's helped me before. I'm number one time

33:28

I had a logo for a company as that

33:30

was great. I worked really hard on it looked

33:32

really good but it was the color of he

33:34

slowly like choked a smurf who's like this really

33:36

weird blue and somebody is it was my friend

33:38

who is America's I should Just by what he

33:40

thinks is awesome right is like ah now you

33:42

need to fix that and. nasca mad the she

33:45

said it's i worked really hard on but as like

33:47

i'm i'm glad i have a friend will tell me

33:49

that listen you need to go back to the drawing

33:51

board little bit on that one because it's not gonna

33:53

work and at the when i went did that it

33:55

took off it was great was great brand but yeah

33:57

you need us people who will tell you the truth

34:00

And having multiple of those type of people,

34:02

that's what you need to work on probably

34:04

more than the next big idea is finding

34:06

those people who will surround you and tell

34:08

you the truth about what's going on and

34:10

help you get some ideas and where you

34:12

can bounce those ideas off of them. Yeah,

34:15

creativity is not a vacuum. It doesn't

34:17

just involve you and the world and

34:19

you soaking it in and then moving

34:21

things around in your mind or in

34:23

a trusted system. It's also about interactivity

34:25

with other people, especially trusted people, friends,

34:27

colleagues, teammates, mastermind

34:29

members, etc. So

34:32

thank you for reminding us of that. I'd love

34:34

to point people to where they can find out

34:36

more about all the different things that you're doing.

34:38

You've got like a weekly show. A lot of

34:40

people don't know this but you produce Guy Kawasaki's

34:43

podcast. Throw out all the links as we

34:45

do at the end of a podcast. Yes, what you

34:47

can do is you can find me everywhere. It's

34:50

jeffc.com and that's JeffS

34:52

is in Sam I E H. That's I

34:54

before E especially at C. So

34:56

my mommy told me to memorize my name and you can

34:58

go there and that's where you can get links to social

35:00

media news live, creator news live, all the different things that

35:02

I'm doing. That's probably the best place. So

35:05

jeffc.com. Awesome. Jeff,

35:07

thanks for being here and imparting all

35:09

your experience and wisdom. Thank you. Well

35:14

that is another podcast crossed off your

35:16

listening to do list. I love getting

35:18

to talk to Jeff. Obviously

35:20

I know him in real life. This isn't just another guest for

35:23

me. So I'm thrilled especially knowing

35:25

there's two more conversations like this one coming

35:27

up one on repurposing and one on AI

35:29

and AI tools. We kind of take the

35:32

pulse and talk about some favorite tools that

35:34

come into mind and what they do and

35:36

how we use them. So you

35:38

can look forward to those coming up but again it's

35:40

not next episode or the one after that. It'll

35:43

be in the near future. I have those

35:45

on deck. It's part of this conversation.

35:47

So you don't get bored listening to

35:50

no offense Jeff. Listen to

35:52

just Jeff for three episodes in a row. So

35:55

I hope that you found this one helpful. I

35:57

hope that you started to think of ways that

35:59

you can. foster creativity by engaging with

36:01

curiosity and picking and choosing the right

36:04

inputs, but then also using those inputs

36:06

to capture and then organize ideas and

36:08

put them together and form different building

36:11

blocks of things that you can start

36:13

to work with and do actual things

36:15

with. And I hope that you consider

36:17

some of the creative rituals that we

36:20

talked about as well. If

36:22

you found this show helpful, which I hope

36:24

you did, do me the favor, do someone

36:26

else the favor, share this episode with them.

36:28

Hit that share button in your podcast player

36:30

app of choice, wherever you're listening, send it on

36:33

over to them, let them know you were thinking

36:35

of them, tell them what you thought they would

36:37

be interested in from this episode and help them

36:39

out. Thank you so much for sharing.

36:42

Thanks again for listening and I will see

36:44

you next episode. Thank

37:02

you.