0:08

Hi and welcome to

0:11

the Big Deep podcast . Big

0:14

Deep is a podcast about people who have a connection

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to the ocean , people for whom

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that connection is so strong it defines

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some aspect of their life . Over

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the course of this series we'll talk to all sorts of people

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and in each episode we'll explore

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the deeper meaning of that connection . Today

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I speak with an author , film producer and underwater

0:34

photographer who shares how the magic of a

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single moment in the ocean changed the trajectory

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of her entire life . Hello

0:42

, this is your host , Jason Elias . Welcome

0:47

to the Big Deep podcast

0:49

. In

0:51

today's episode I speak with award-winning author

0:54

, film producer and underwater photographer

0:56

, Pier Nirandara . Pier's

0:58

connection to the ocean started as a young girl growing

1:00

up in Bangkok , thailand , with weekend

1:02

family trips to a nearby beach house . Her

1:05

time there sparked an interest in storytelling , which

1:07

led her to writing a trilogy of novels about mermaids

1:10

when she was just 15 years old and

1:12

, remarkably , all three novels went on to be number one

1:14

national bestsellers in Thailand . From

1:16

there , her path took her to college in the US and

1:18

a successful career as a film producer at studios

1:21

in Hollywood . But her connection

1:23

to the ocean never left her , and I first heard

1:25

about her in an article in the Hollywood Reporter about

1:28

a private dive club she had started for studio executives

1:30

in the entertainment industry , which she called

1:32

Hollywood Sharks . So

1:35

I reached out to Pierre and she responded immediately

1:37

, as she was always open to raising awareness around

1:39

the world's oceans . And of course , the

1:41

interview was fantastic . Pierre was

1:43

thoughtful , funny and kind and

1:46

over the course of our interview Pierre discussed

1:48

where she initially found that connection with the water , the

1:51

surprising parallels between aspects of the world's

1:53

oceans and her inspiration for literature , and

1:56

an unexpected life-changing moment she had

1:58

in a sardine run off the coast of

2:00

South Africa .

2:02

My name is Pier Nirandara . I'm

2:04

originally from Bangkok , Thailand . I'm

2:06

an author , a film producer and

2:08

an underwater photographer .

2:11

Right . So I was , of course

2:13

, very excited to speak to you , because not

2:15

only do you have a deep connection to the ocean , but

2:17

we also both work in the entertainment

2:19

industry . So could you talk

2:21

a bit about where you grew up and when you first

2:23

remember your connection to the ocean ?

2:29

I was very fortunate to grow up in a country where

2:31

the water is warm year-round , it's

2:34

like a swimming pool . We

2:38

had a beach house that we would spend a lot

2:40

of time at in Haua Hin , a

2:43

very local beachside town that

2:45

a lot of times houses it , or apartments

2:47

about two hours outside of Bangkok

2:49

, and

2:53

I remember foraging for little clams

2:55

mussels these little I don't even

2:57

know what they're called in English , but they're almost like tiny prawns

3:00

that live in the sand and

3:02

we would bore them out with pieces of fish and they would catch

3:05

them and then you cook them in Thai style . So

3:10

that's how I grew up , always

3:12

by the water . My mom could never pull me

3:14

out of it . People

3:16

would always ask like how did you get into scoop dive or how did you get into

3:18

the water ? It's like it was always there

3:20

and , looking back , it was such a privilege

3:23

to have , which you don't notice at the time

3:25

being a kid , but it was a

3:27

really idyllic childhood in the

3:29

sense of being based in Bangkok and

3:31

then getting to run away to the solution for

3:33

the weekend .

3:35

Right , and so you became a

3:37

bestselling author at age 15

3:39

, which is truly remarkable

3:41

considering what I think I might have

3:43

been doing at that age . So

3:46

can you talk about how that came about

3:48

and what inspired you to tell

3:51

these stories , and what impact

3:53

did that have on your young life

3:55

?

3:56

Yeah , I was 15 when it came

3:58

out the first novel and it

4:00

grew into a trilogy . I

4:02

think it was about the feeling that you get

4:04

when you're experiencing something larger than

4:07

life . I wanted to impart that feeling

4:09

onto someone else and share that

4:11

feeling of being alive , and that was

4:13

really what drew me towards writing and storytelling

4:16

and manifested itself

4:18

in these trilogy of children's books . It's a fantasy

4:20

series and it's about teenagers

4:22

who find out that they've been chosen to become the

4:24

future ambassadors between humans and

4:26

mermaids . The books did very well

4:29

and they were graphic novel adaptations

4:31

. They've gotten options . The

4:33

characters and the audience grew up with me , which

4:35

was really cool . So I got to tour

4:37

schools and talk about literature and

4:39

the importance of ocean

4:41

and storytelling to a lot of Thai

4:44

kids . So that was a lot of my high school

4:46

career was doing that . But it was really

4:48

exciting because at the end of the day , it all came from this

4:50

love for stories and for the

4:52

ocean and wanting to impart that feeling on .

4:55

I still find that crazy that you did

4:57

that at such a young age . It's just absolutely

5:00

amazing . And yet when you tell

5:02

your story it kind of makes

5:04

sense how you got there . So

5:06

you grew up in Bangkok , which can sound

5:08

so exotic to a Westerner , but

5:11

which you mentioned for you was simply

5:13

your hometown , and in a strange

5:15

way , growing up in such a big city started

5:18

your connection to books and to the ocean

5:20

. Can you talk a bit about that

5:22

and perhaps where you see

5:24

parallels between your connection

5:26

to the ocean and your inspiration

5:28

for literature , even as an adult ?

5:31

I mean , I'm an only child and I grew up in

5:33

the middle of this huge city , which

5:36

can actually be quite lonely , so

5:42

I spent a lot of time with my own thoughts , surrounded

5:46

by books . The

5:48

library was the one place that I could go and

5:50

I didn't have a spending limit , so

5:54

I literally grew up just surrounded by literature

5:57

and always in these dream worlds . And

6:03

when we talk about mermaids a lot of people just think , oh

6:06

, childish fantasies . But

6:09

for me , looking back on it now , it

6:12

was actually the feeling of longing , of

6:15

the bitter sweetness

6:18

, the beauty of the transience

6:20

of the world , the sublime

6:22

transcendence as the romantics

6:25

of call it . I

6:27

think a lot of writers probably feel the same way

6:30

, and

6:32

I think the ocean is

6:35

a really big way that it manifests

6:37

in that sense of it is this

6:40

other world that

6:42

we dip our toes into . It

6:45

never lasts forever , it's

6:48

always transient , it's

6:50

ever changing and

6:53

ultimately we always have to leave . To

6:59

me , that's something that's very beautiful and

7:04

you don't find that in a lot of other avenues

7:06

of life , I think .

7:16

Well , that's beautiful , and

7:19

, as an artist myself , I find it so intriguing

7:21

how I , too , find the creative

7:23

process to be similar to being in the ocean

7:25

. There's a sense of letting go

7:27

of something bigger than myself , of

7:30

trusting the world in a way that something

7:33

impacting will arise , so

7:35

that really resonates with me . So

7:38

with that , you ended

7:40

up working in media and had

7:42

an incredible career . But

7:45

you also mentioned to me before we started

7:47

, that a deep

7:49

realization came to you on a dive

7:52

trip you took and caused a major

7:54

change in your life . Can

7:56

you talk a bit about your path

7:58

in Hollywood and what you

8:01

discovered that was so

8:03

moving when you were in the ocean ?

8:06

I always wanted to actually work in publishing but

8:08

, through a twist of fate , ended up at an internship

8:10

in LA , actually at a production company , which

8:13

completely changed the trajectory of my life . I

8:15

was like , oh my God , this is where I'm meant to be

8:17

. I want to tell stories . I've always

8:20

loved films , but Hollywood was just this

8:22

. I mean , as a Thai kid which is

8:24

so far off , I finally got

8:26

my foot on the door and then started at ICM

8:28

talent agency and then was like mailroom

8:31

assistant . It worked my way up and found

8:33

myself at Sony and a major . In all

8:35

these other companies had amazing

8:37

mentors , just got very lucky

8:39

and worked primarily in the book to

8:41

film department , so working with writers

8:43

and authors and directors . And

8:45

then had a experience where

8:47

I went on a scuba diving trip to South

8:49

Africa , sardine Run . At

8:52

the time I was 24 and

8:54

I was always the good Asian daughter

8:57

, went to school , got good grades , got a good

8:59

job , did things my parents would be proud of . I

9:02

just felt like there was more . There

9:04

was more out there . So it

9:07

was quitting my

9:09

job and embracing

9:11

something that scared the

9:14

living hell out of me , which was the unknown

9:16

. I think a lot of people

9:18

feel that way , when they're in deep water

9:20

, people joke like , oh , I just don't know what's down

9:22

there . And that was what was so

9:24

terrifying to me . It was the unknown ocean

9:27

, the unknown life . This

9:29

travel writer named Rolf Potts . He talks

9:31

about this concept If you go out with predetermined

9:34

expectations of what you want , the best that

9:36

could ever happen is you fulfill those expectations

9:38

. But if you go out there opening

9:41

yourself to the unknown , so much

9:43

more could happen , and I

9:45

think that that really resonated with me .

9:48

Well , I fully respect

9:50

the courage it takes to see a

9:52

different life and then

9:55

take the step to embrace it . That is a

9:57

step that most , including me , might

9:59

be hesitant to take . So I

10:01

give you much respect and I

10:03

want to return to that trip a little later to

10:05

get a deeper understanding of what

10:07

really happened for you . But

10:10

I also want to talk about how I heard about you

10:12

originally . There was an article

10:14

in the Hollywood Reporter , an industry

10:17

magazine , about your dive club

10:19

, hollywood Sharks . Can

10:21

you tell me a little bit more about

10:23

that , because I just love the

10:25

idea .

10:26

Yes , so Hollywood

10:28

Sharks is a scuba diving club

10:30

, or a diving club for people

10:33

who are in the industry , who love

10:35

the ocean and who dive . There's all

10:37

levels of divers . You don't have to be a crazy

10:39

advanced scuba diver to be part

10:41

of it , and ultimately it's about bridging

10:44

the gap between the

10:46

ocean and film , and the

10:48

goal is to make movies that

10:50

help with themes of conservation

10:52

and love for the ocean and the environment , without

10:55

being preachy , but to also stop

10:57

making killer shark movies and

10:59

killer animal movies that vilify creatures

11:01

of the blue . So much of Hollywood . If you

11:04

strip away the fame , you strip away the money . Chasing

11:06

it is creative people coming

11:08

together to tell stories , and

11:10

there is something beautiful about that . So

11:12

I always thought that if Hollywood execs

11:15

could have tennis clubs and golf tournaments

11:17

, why couldn't we have our own water society

11:20

? That's where it came from .

11:23

That's so great and I cannot wait to

11:25

go diving with you All right

11:27

. So you mentioned this seminal

11:30

trip to South Africa that changed

11:32

your life forever , and

11:34

I'd love to hear a bit more about that story

11:37

and what it is about that trip

11:39

in particular that was so deeply

11:41

impacting .

11:43

So this was 2018

11:45

, on the wild coast of South Africa

11:47

, which historically was known as

11:49

the Trans Sky , where black people were forcibly

11:51

removed and put during apartheid . So

11:59

insanely beautiful landscapes

12:01

, but tragic history . I'm

12:03

24 years old . I'm there for a diving

12:05

trip supposed to be a week long . The

12:09

sardine run is the biggest migration

12:11

in the world . It's larger in

12:13

scale in number of animals than the Serengeti

12:15

and the Maasai Mara , more sardines than wildebeest

12:18

, and every year around June-July

12:20

time , the sardines migrate up the coast

12:22

in South Africa , chasing water

12:25

currents , and with them come

12:27

the predators that hunt them Sharks

12:29

, dolphins , whales , birds you can even get penguins

12:32

there sea lions . I

12:36

went there on the diving trip that felt

12:38

like it lasted forever , but it was really only one week

12:40

long , and I joked that I went

12:42

from swimming with sharks and Hollywood to swimming with

12:44

actual sharks , because

12:49

I remember being

12:51

on this little rubber boat whizzing

12:53

up and down the wild coast . It's

12:56

pouring rain , there's

12:59

crazy waves and

13:03

you're looking for diving birds , because

13:08

when again it's dived , that's a sign that

13:10

there are bait balls , and that's what we're here to

13:12

see . And there's

13:14

one specific day where we

13:16

find a bait ball and

13:18

it seems static enough that we can maybe jump

13:20

in . And

13:23

I remember the boat pulling up next to

13:25

the bait ball and

13:27

I'm in my year , ready to go , and

13:30

the guide says , ok , ready

13:32

. When I say jump , you jump . And

13:34

then , when he says jump , I look over

13:37

and there's this bronze whaler

13:39

shark . It must have been over two meters long

13:41

. That's just feeding on this bait

13:43

ball . Now

13:46

there's a shark and

13:49

the guide yells out isn't that what

13:51

you're here for ? So

13:54

I jump in and

13:58

it's freezing cold

14:01

because that's what the sardines like . They're chasing

14:03

the cold water current . So once the temperature

14:05

drops at a certain level , that's when the sardines are running

14:07

the

14:10

water is rough . I'm

14:12

bopping up and down in the cold

14:15

, cold water . There are

14:17

sharks everywhere and

14:20

it's just like pure adrenaline

14:22

rush . You peer

14:24

down into the gloom and there's huge

14:28

sharks chomping on these bait balls and

14:30

with each chomp comes an explosion

14:33

of glittering scales coming out

14:35

of their gills . It's pretty

14:37

crazy . And

14:40

I'm there with my camera trying

14:43

to decide how close do I dare get

14:46

to these animals , because the one

14:48

thing you never want to do is swim into a bait ball because

14:51

you could be accidentally bitten , trying

14:57

to still breathe through the snorkel , choking

15:00

on saltwater , being

15:02

cold , your heart's

15:04

pounding . You're like that

15:06

shark definitely knows I'm here , but

15:09

then realizing they don't care that I'm here

15:11

. They're not here for me , they're here for

15:13

the sardines . And

15:15

around you you also hear the thump of

15:18

birds bandits that are

15:20

diving , so

15:22

every time they hit the water they're like missiles . You

15:26

hear like the thud , thud , thud , thud of the birds around you that

15:28

are literally swimming down and eating fish

15:31

. The dolphins are around , which

15:33

herd the bait balls into these tight balls , and

15:36

the thuds actually are what draw the sharks from the blue

15:38

. And then you might see penguin whiz by and

15:40

the birdish whale come up and just chomp the whole ball

15:42

. So

15:45

everything is working as one major

15:47

ecosystem . It's

15:51

just a huge frenzy and

15:53

you're in the middle of it . But

15:56

once the frenzy was over , the one moment

15:58

that I remember was actually

16:01

the way the ocean looked afterwards

16:03

. It's

16:05

glittering with fish scales Because

16:08

the sharks disappeared , the

16:12

bait balls gone and

16:15

there's like an odd sardine here and there that survived

16:17

, but

16:19

ultimately you are in the endless blue , floating

16:23

in a galaxy of stars . The

16:27

beauty of it is that it's transient . It can

16:29

never be static . We

16:32

look for the bait ball , but it disappears

16:35

, and that's what makes it beautiful

16:37

. It

16:42

felt like a microcosm for the

16:45

larger metaphor of life . The fact that I went out to Africa not knowing

16:47

what I would find is

16:49

that I was able

16:51

to find the right place to live . I went out to Africa not knowing

16:54

what I would find and discover . I

16:59

think it was a lot of

17:01

untangling my own biases

17:04

of the way that I was supposed to lead my life

17:06

and

17:11

it was just a very big change

17:13

in my not

17:16

just life trajectory but

17:18

also my relationship to the ocean .

17:31

Finally , we end every interview and every

17:34

episode with a single open-ended

17:36

question . We ask everyone we talk to

17:38

what does the ocean

17:40

mean to you ?

17:42

To me , the ocean is everything . I've

17:44

spent my entire lifetime trying

17:46

to put it into words , this connection to the ocean

17:48

. I think I'll probably spend the rest

17:51

of my life trying to do the same type of thing .

17:57

Thanks for listening to the Big Deep podcast . Next

18:01

time on Big Deep .

18:03

In order to understand the Earth

18:06

, we have to know her . She

18:08

is 98% ocean and

18:10

95% deep ocean

18:12

. So I wanted to go downwards

18:15

, because the journey inward it's a journey

18:17

into darkness , it's a journey into the unknown

18:20

, but it's also a journey into

18:22

the life force of the planet

18:24

. And the underworld is , in fact , where the treasures

18:26

are .

18:28

We really appreciate you being on this journey into the Big

18:30

Deep as we explore an ocean of stories

18:32

. If you like what we're doing , please make

18:34

sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts . Also

18:37

, please find us on the socials where you can like

18:39

and comment , because those subscribes , likes and comments

18:41

really make a difference . For

18:43

more content from our interviews in our series , photos

18:46

of every guest or just to get in touch , please

18:48

reach out at our website , bigdeepcom

18:50

Plus . If you know someone you

18:52

think we should talk to , please let us know

18:54

at our Big Deep website , as we are always looking to hear

18:56

more stories from interesting people who are deeply

18:58

connected to our world's oceans . Thanks

19:01

again for joining us .