0:01

Welcome back to another episode of Big

0:03

Money Energy, where we talked to super

0:05

successful people and self made people

0:07

to find out exactly how they did it, how they

0:10

went from nothing to something. Today,

0:12

I'm insanely excited to talk to one of

0:14

the most impressive and successful

0:16

entrepreneurs in the world. And it's funny.

0:18

When we started this podcast and we're talking

0:20

to my heart and we were listing out

0:23

people that, you know, I wanted to talk to. The

0:25

guy in front of me was on that list,

0:27

but I never thought that I would actually be able to convince

0:29

him to slow down for a split second and

0:31

actually talk. But here we are, and we're

0:33

in the room. He's an entrepreneur and investor

0:36

or father. Uh even better, he's

0:38

a New Yorker. He started and sold for

0:40

companies, with many more in the works,

0:43

one of them being diapers dot com, which

0:45

she sold for just under five and

0:47

fifty million dollars, and then jet dot

0:50

com, which he sold for three

0:52

point three billion dollars. And

0:54

those that's real money, that's not crypto, it's

0:56

like U S dollars. He also recently started

0:58

adventure fund with a very very small

1:00

athlete. This guy some people know

1:02

him named A Rod and if that wasn't enough,

1:04

he beat Jerry Rice in the forty r Dash, which is

1:07

insane. Anyway, I'm super excited

1:09

to discuss how he makes it all happen,

1:11

the all amazing man in

1:13

front of me, Mr Mark Lord. This is one of my

1:15

favorites. Let's get into it. Welcome to another episode

1:27

before I get into everything else. Uh,

1:30

you're a New Yorker, you love New York. This

1:33

is your spot right now. We're in Tribeca

1:35

and you quarantine through here. But you're

1:37

from Staten Island. Staten Island

1:40

until I was ten years old fifth grade

1:42

and moved to New Jersey. So talk to me before

1:44

we get to the companies and and everything

1:46

else. I want to go through about those

1:48

kind of formative years in Staten

1:50

Island. Uh, and how you think

1:53

that made an impact on your

1:55

life today, Like, did

1:58

you think it did it all? Yeah? Well it's

2:00

interesting because I think it definitely did. The

2:02

first four years of my life we lived above my grandparents,

2:06

you know, part of their house, like in the top floor, and

2:08

then from four to ten lived in a multi

2:10

family kind of home and it was very modest.

2:13

Growing up, we lived in a

2:15

predominantly Italian, Irish Catholic

2:17

neighborhood. I didn't even know

2:19

what a Protestant was until I

2:22

was moved to New Jersey. So I was at least

2:25

in sixth grade when I thought everyone

2:27

was pretty Italian. Yeah, I just thought

2:30

everyone's Catholic. Everyone's Catholic. I don't know about

2:32

you know, Italian and Irish, but I didn't know anything

2:35

else. It was incredibly uh

2:38

diverse. It wasn't diverse at all. And

2:41

you know, I had a thick statin on accent.

2:43

And then we moved to New Jersey and was thrown in this like

2:46

small thirty four kids in

2:48

a class, uh, super

2:51

diverse, you know, like you know, maybe

2:53

there was one other Catholic, you know, in the entire class,

2:55

and it was every nationality, and

2:57

they made fun of my accent. And I was

2:59

this like just assumed to be

3:01

dumb because I had this like thick, you know,

3:03

stating own accent and it was a jock and

3:06

just you know, it was a very interesting

3:09

juxtaposition to go from that to

3:11

where I was. And I you're kind of forced in a

3:13

small school, especially diverse, to be

3:15

sort of friends with everyone, and it's not typical,

3:18

I think to grow up and go to a school

3:20

where you're friends

3:22

with people you never would have been friends with if

3:25

you were in a bigger school and just found your crowd. Like

3:27

if there was a whole crowd of like Italians

3:31

Catholic Italians there, I probably would have gravitated

3:33

toward that. But no, I was like the

3:36

only one. So you're friends with everyone.

3:38

My two best friends are you know, Indian

3:40

American to this day, you know, And

3:43

I think that really helps shape me a

3:45

lot in terms of like empathy

3:48

and values and

3:51

how to understand people different

3:53

viewpoints, the benefits of diversity,

3:56

appreciating people for who they are as

3:58

opposed to like what they look like

4:00

or where they come from, and things like. It was a really

4:03

cool experience. I didn't really appreciate it until many

4:05

years later, but you

4:07

know, just it's part of your you

4:10

know, it becomes part of your DNA. After a while, I

4:12

was not into school at all. I told

4:14

my parents, like, the school doesn't give homework,

4:17

and they did and I never did it, and I

4:19

didn't do well. But I did have like just

4:21

a natural gift for math, so

4:24

that kind of carried me. I really haven't completed

4:26

any fiction books. I haven't completed

4:28

any fiction books yet in my life. So

4:31

I wasn't ever into books growing

4:33

up in grammar school and high school, and then just kind

4:35

of carried on, you know. I start reading,

4:37

I tried, I get through like the first few

4:39

pages, and I just start thinking,

4:42

and then I closed the book and I just spend time thinking.

4:44

I can't. I can't get through more

4:46

than a few pages. Um. So I

4:48

always feel like reading

4:50

takes time away from thinking, and I'm a thinker. I like

4:53

to think. I don't know how people actually

4:55

read, because it's like you're committee to somebody else's

4:57

words and I don't know how you think and invent

5:00

same time you're reading. Interesting. I just

5:02

never read. Do you get bored easily? I

5:04

do? Yeah, definitely, Yeah,

5:06

definitely get bored. Yeah, I get what's

5:08

funny. I get bored unless I'm

5:11

focused on a specific vision,

5:14

you know, like there's something and then I can be

5:16

like I can and

5:18

be laser focused, but it has to be

5:20

toward a very specific golden like

5:23

focused on Otherwise. Yeah. No, Like

5:26

I don't do TV like stuff like that. It's

5:28

just tough, got it. No TV, No

5:31

books, just thinking thinking.

5:33

That's why you have that crazy terrace upstairs. You can

5:35

just go out there and you can think and invet,

5:40

that's awesome, that's

5:42

I do. I wish I knew to say that to my parents,

5:45

like listen, you guys the books

5:47

and then for me, I just I need

5:49

more time to think. Did you know

5:51

early on that you wanted to be

5:53

an entrepreneur or not work for other

5:55

people? Because you when you graduated

5:58

school, you went into bank, you got a job because

6:00

that's what you thought you were supposed to do. No,

6:02

I had no choice, really, so I did

6:04

when I was a kid, so four years old. Um

6:07

Grandma used to spend all the time, my grandmother

6:09

and just ask me, what do you want to be when

6:11

you grow up? She's always just to say this to me. And I always

6:13

said, I want to be a farmer. Now,

6:15

you don't want to be a farmer, doctor, lawyer? No, I want to

6:17

be a farmer. Why don't want to be a farmer because

6:20

you grow stuff from nothing? Yeah. I

6:22

just loved as a little little kid this idea

6:25

that from a seed grew something and

6:27

which is basically entrepreneurship. And throughout

6:29

my entire childhood I did every

6:32

entrepreneurial business you can think of mowing

6:34

lawns, recycling, you

6:37

know, newspapers, um

6:40

lemonade, stand baseball

6:42

cards, like anything to

6:44

sort of make a buck and be entrepreneurial.

6:47

But when I graduated college in ninety

6:49

three, like I had no money, didn't know anything about

6:51

startups or that didn't really wasn't really a thing.

6:53

Nine I'd like stocks.

6:56

I had followed stocks as a kid, was interested in

6:58

it, and I I was like, okay, I'll go work for a bank.

7:00

It didn't occur to me that it was even an

7:02

option to be an entrepreneur or something. So

7:04

I went into banking, and like each year and banking

7:07

and I started getting more and more anxious, like I

7:09

don't like the culture. It's all about

7:12

mercenary as I call it, you know, just all

7:14

about making a buck. The values weren't

7:16

great, and I was more mission oriented, as like an

7:18

entrepreneur as a kid, like what's the

7:20

mission? Like what are we gonna go out? And how are we

7:22

going to change the world? And it never it just felt

7:24

wrong. And every year I was doing better and better and better

7:27

in banking, and probably about six and a half

7:29

years into banking, I was chief

7:31

risk office and doing really well, making a half a million

7:33

bucks a year. I just had a kid, and I'm

7:35

like, it's now or never, Like I need to

7:37

like go do this and be an entrepreneur. So I just went

7:39

in my boss's office and quit and

7:42

just said I'm going to be an entrepreneur. And

7:44

he laughed at me and said, well, you don't just like walk

7:46

in and just say I'm going to be an entrepreneur. Like what's the business?

7:49

I said, I don't know yet. I just know I can't figure

7:51

this out when working eighty hours a week for

7:53

you. I need to like quit, focus,

7:56

put together a bass plan, raise money, think

8:00

and and so he's like, you're crazy,

8:02

and I'm like maybe he's like, well, can

8:05

I be a first investor because I just have

8:07

a feeling you're gonna make this work.

8:09

And so you put fifty grand in And that was like the

8:11

start of the start of it. And what was that company

8:14

that was called the pit? It was Sports

8:16

stock Market and basically combined

8:19

my love for sports with stocks. I got

8:21

my two best friends from

8:23

from grammar school and I said, you know, and to quit

8:25

their jobs to go do it together. And it was like the most

8:28

fun time. Learned so much about entrepreneurship.

8:31

Um learned what a CAP table was.

8:34

We're in the first venture capital meeting.

8:37

Uh, and we're just sort of like saying, here's the business and

8:39

everything of that. And then then I never

8:41

forget the venture investor I think his name was Tom

8:43

Grant, and he said, uh,

8:46

he said, uh, so can you just

8:48

walk me through the cap table? And

8:50

we're looking at another and anyway,

8:52

he said, the cap tables I don't know kept black. You

8:54

know, I don't like cap table. What's a cap table?

8:57

And they were like, maybe you guys should

8:59

come back, should come back when you know what a cap table

9:02

is. So that was that was pretty

9:04

funny. So you know, everyone starts from the bottom,

9:06

you know, there's no you just just learn. You

9:08

get thrown in, throw yourself in and learn,

9:11

you know, trial and error. How much

9:13

did you end up raising for that business? Ultimately

9:16

five million? It was only

9:18

angels, no institution. We couldn't get any institutional

9:20

because we didn't know what a cat table was. So so

9:23

friends, people you knew it was like it was

9:25

yeah, it was basically my

9:27

boss at Santua Bank, but the first fifty

9:29

and instead go talk to these two people and then

9:31

every two people we talked to. We

9:34

said, okay, were the interested or not int do

9:36

you know two people? And it was literally like this

9:38

tree we had built and we talked to like a

9:40

hundred and twenty angel investors

9:42

and we got had a good hit, right. We had that sixty

9:45

people to invest on average

9:47

what is that like eight tho each? So

9:50

it was like just clawn,

9:53

you know, trying to raise that five million

9:56

UM. But then the

9:58

market crashed. This is this is

10:00

on the nastack in two thousand just got destroyed.

10:03

Forget about. We couldn't raise venture before. We're definitely

10:05

we're going to raise venture after UM.

10:07

And we were nine months in and we're the business

10:10

was doing well, was getting some action and

10:12

fortunately the Tops, the baseball

10:15

card of Zuoka gun manufacturer, came

10:17

in and said, hey, you know, we like what you guys are doing

10:19

and we'll give you a five point seven million for it. And

10:23

we're like, we'll take it

10:26

because there was literally the market

10:28

was destroyed and even our investors were like, wait,

10:30

you're gonna make money in this market, yeah,

10:33

take it. So everyone back,

10:36

pay everyone back and uh. And

10:38

then worked in side tops and that's where we got the idea

10:40

for diapers dot Com

10:47

had that idea come about. I was basically, I mean

10:49

I had a baby at the time, so paying

10:51

me ask going out for diapers all the time. But

10:54

the way it came together was I was literally in

10:56

Google. They used to be able to like search to figure

10:58

out how many times have searched term was searched in

11:00

Google, and they remember typing the

11:02

word diapers into the search engine

11:05

and it said two hundred thousand times it

11:07

was searched in a month. I'm like, wow, search

11:10

two hundred thousand times. Nobody's buying diapers online.

11:12

That's interesting. People want to buy them. They're not online.

11:15

I certainly want to buy them online. And the baby

11:17

that's pain in the ask, going to like diapers every

11:20

every few weeks. So I thought, well,

11:22

let me see Amazon. I mean, no, Amazon,

11:24

they sell diapers, but they're like three times it's expended,

11:26

Like nobody's buying diapers online. Why,

11:29

Oh, they're a lost leader. You know, Walmart

11:32

and Target they saw m at a loss. So

11:34

now if you want to ship them there big and bulky and

11:36

shipping everything. So everyone's like the scars and

11:38

like you can't make money. I was like, yeah,

11:40

but why they were lost leader in the store. I didn't know anything

11:42

about retail. I was like, Okay, they're a lost

11:45

leader because it drives traffic

11:47

and it drives moms to the store. Because yeah,

11:50

interesting, so it's a lost leader. So why couldn't you be a

11:52

lost leader online? Well, you're gonna lose a lot more money.

11:55

Yeah, but there's a much longer tail of products

11:57

I can sell mom because there's unlimited

11:59

shelves based online. And that was sort of like the breakthrough.

12:01

It's like, Okay, we're gonna sell dipers,

12:04

We're gonna bring people in and we're gonna sell them everything else,

12:07

and we're gonna lose money. The problem

12:09

was the manufacturers wouldn't sell

12:11

us diapers direct because they thought it

12:13

wasn't gonna work. So what do we do. We had to go to Costco

12:16

b J's and buy

12:18

the dipers in the wholesale club. So we literally

12:20

go into sell the diapers for let's say

12:22

forty dollars a box. Then we go into

12:24

Costco and buying for forty box and

12:26

pay ten dollars to ship them. And

12:29

we were funding this ourselves, so it's like,

12:32

you do know, Mark, you're selling a dollar

12:34

for ninety cents and I said, no,

12:36

actually selling a dollar for eighty cents, but that's okay.

12:39

But but yes, the plan is

12:41

we're gonna sell these dollars for eighty cents and

12:44

then when we get enough people shopping

12:46

and we're gonna then sell them stuff that we actually make

12:48

real money on. And it was

12:50

painful in the beginning because we're literally

12:52

like having to go to b J's

12:55

and buy these diapers, and

12:57

we stopped buying them. Yeah,

12:59

but we buy them the day that they were sold

13:01

because it was But then it got to the point where we're

13:04

selling like truckloads of diapers.

13:06

So me and Vinnie, we're going

13:08

Vinnie barras co founder and best

13:11

friend, you know, we go to we go to uh

13:13

b J's, and we have a deal. If

13:16

we leave them some diapers, they will

13:18

pack them on the eight and wheeler in the back because

13:20

they have the equipment and stuff. I'm like, okay, great, we'll leave you diapers.

13:23

That's a great deal. Okay, we still have to

13:25

pay money and stand online and go

13:27

through and it's like ridiculous,

13:29

right, and have all the things and everything, like

13:31

with the cashier. Yeah, with the cashier, we couldn't

13:33

like do it like you know, like through like why

13:35

or anything heavy. You're a diaper broker.

13:38

Yeah, basically a diaper broker. And

13:40

literally two years into it, Proctan Gamba

13:42

Chamilli Clark still not selling us diapers

13:44

and we're like, we're selling thirty million dollars

13:46

of diapers. You we can't keep doing this. We're like

13:48

clearing out wholesale clubs, like, we gotta

13:51

figure this out. We gotta figure this out. How many people

13:53

work for you at that time still

13:55

really lean, like Vinnie and I were

13:57

doing everything. It was probably like you know,

14:01

diapers a year, probably like six people crazy

14:03

crazy and buying them from the thing and shipping

14:06

them, going to like UPS stores and just like

14:08

putting all these boxes in yeah basically

14:10

yeah, but putting the labels. I would be out on the front

14:12

law on these boxes and you just put the labels on it

14:15

and put it on the truck and bring it to FedEx and

14:17

UPS and Silt the website who bought the platform

14:19

for you, Um yeah, we had got

14:23

build. Yeah, you

14:25

just designed it personally. You guys just said this, we

14:27

design it, no firm. We designed the logo

14:30

you know, and this kind of stuff. Yeah, we

14:32

did everything, and they beginning and

14:34

but we couldn't keep this up. We're burning a lot of money. Now

14:37

we're burning a serious amount of money. We basically

14:39

took it, funded ourselves to the first

14:42

eleven million that was That was the first two

14:44

years, the eleven millions, and parked kemal

14:46

Clock still wouldn't sell us the diapers, and

14:49

it seemed like there was not even close to selling us.

14:51

So we came up with the city like, oh, we got what were we gonna do? What you

14:53

can do? Okay, we need a reason for them to sell us. We need a

14:55

reason. And we're like, you know what, what

14:58

if we took all the diapers from BJ and

15:00

left nothing for their customers? Don't they have to don't

15:02

they need diapers? Like yeah,

15:04

but they're not gonna load the truck. All right, Well let's

15:06

let's go for it. So we went into Pj's and

15:09

we talked to the man. You said, hey, sorry, you know

15:11

this deal, it's off. We need them all. We're

15:13

taking them all. And he's like, no, you can't

15:15

take them all, Like, well, there's nothing

15:17

We're gonna buy all the diapers, right this is anybody could

15:19

come in and buy the dipers. You can't stop something from buying them,

15:21

Like, oh, you're right, we can't, but we're

15:24

not loading the truck, so good luck,

15:26

Like, oh, ship, we can load his truck.

15:29

A team real and mean Vinney were like boxes

15:31

and like it was just a war of wills,

15:33

like who can last longer? You know, We're we

15:36

cleared them out. Customers are coming and complaining,

15:38

right, and but we're like loading the truck

15:40

and these diapers Like man, dude, I don't know how how

15:42

long can we keep loading the truck And

15:45

like I don't know, I think you're gonna break. Man. They have no

15:47

diapers to their customers. They're gonna have to like call Procton

15:49

Gamble. We're like, listen, you can solve this pain.

15:52

Just call Proctor and Gamble Kimberly

15:54

Clarke and tell them to sell us diapers. Then

15:56

you're good. You off the hook. And like, after

15:58

like a few times to do this, they did, like

16:01

we broke them. We were like sweat and we're like pounds.

16:03

So like, dude, I don't know how long we can do this for,

16:06

you know, but they broke first. They

16:08

called procting a game. We're procting. We're called us and said,

16:11

Hey, one of our big customers

16:14

UM asked us to sell you direct

16:16

or a good client, and we're gonna

16:18

do it. We don't believe in it, nothing's changing how

16:20

we feel about your business, but we will sell

16:22

you direct. And

16:25

that's how we kind of like, you know, got

16:27

direct and then we raised venture at

16:29

eleven run rate, and then we took it to thirty six

16:32

and then ninety and then yeah, two and

16:35

it was like and he started started

16:37

hiring back office people to run it, and then we started

16:39

hiring people to run it and everything. But the first eleven

16:42

million was like just a few

16:44

employees, Like it was like probably anything we're

16:46

doing everything we do in the accounting, marketing,

16:49

web design, customer care.

16:53

It was diapers, wipes, and

16:55

then we added formula at that time and

16:58

that was pretty much it. Yeah,

17:05

how much until it did you end up raising before

17:08

before you exited? That's

17:10

it? That's it crazy.

17:13

And you just use that for pure expansion, just

17:15

for hiring and build hiring marketing.

17:18

Yeah, and you sold him what year was sold

17:20

in two thousand eleven? And did the

17:22

buyer come to you or was it something that you

17:25

were thinking about, Hey, it's time to turn to South

17:27

two is an eleven. It was not like a great time. No,

17:29

it wasn't a great time. And uh

17:32

so Amazon bought us. We actually

17:34

had an offer from someone else for a hundred million more,

17:37

but we took the Amazon offer because

17:40

Amazon was being pretty. They've

17:43

been pretty tough. They cut the price at diapers.

17:46

They were paying to burn a lot of money to

17:49

put a den in our business, and

17:52

they were they

17:54

were pretty. They were pretty tough. I'll just leave it

17:56

a tough tough But

17:59

the other are acquire that offered

18:01

a hundred million more. There was

18:03

this one clause in the

18:05

sort of agreement that said, um,

18:08

as long as there's no adverse changing your business

18:11

between like signing this and then like actually

18:13

closing, we're good. Everything else we're good,

18:16

and we're like, but no adverse change, Like do you

18:18

realize Amazon is gonna kick our ass?

18:20

You realize that, right, Like, yeah, it's okay,

18:22

don't worry about that, Like, no, you're

18:25

worried about it. It's clause here that says

18:27

everything else is great. Just take out this one clause.

18:29

We're done. They wouldn't take the clause

18:32

out, and so like talk to the board of

18:34

directors and said, hey, like I don't

18:36

think they get it, Like there's this clause here

18:38

and we don't understand what

18:40

they're trying to get at, like like they're

18:42

gonna kill us. And so like

18:45

that's a good point. You know, five is not bad. It's

18:49

not bad. So we sold the Amazon And

18:51

I always always talked about this. Is like people

18:54

say, oh, man, this is your first big exit, Like you made

18:56

a ton of money, Like you never need

18:58

to work again. You guys must have been so

19:00

excited. We're literally

19:02

depressed, Like Manny and I were just like

19:05

after after the close, we're like do

19:08

we get a beer and go celebrate? You

19:10

want to? Now me? Now, let's

19:12

just let's just call it a day. You

19:14

know. It's like it's literally it was the most depressing

19:17

day because we sold out. So you aren't

19:19

building anymore, right, we don't build anymore. And I always

19:21

talk about this. It's like the difference between

19:23

selling your company and selling out. Selling is

19:25

okay? Selling out, it's not. It's

19:27

like you have a mission, uh,

19:30

you know what you stand for, a set of values. You

19:32

have a vision of what you want to become. And

19:35

if you can sell the company and that stays

19:38

intact, they needn't sell out. It's actually

19:40

you're accelerating. You know, you have

19:42

more capital, you have more resources, you

19:45

you can go after it with the help of

19:47

the acquiring company, which is what happened with Walmart.

19:49

We didn't sell out. We we sold it, sure,

19:51

but we were still you know, the vision

19:53

of like creating you know, a formidable

19:56

competitor Amazon that was still alive. And well

19:58

when we sold the Amazon, we're sort of like

20:00

pushed in a corner. Guys, just

20:02

keep doing your thing, like doing our thing,

20:05

but you own us and you also have a diaper business,

20:07

and what do you mean do our thing? Aren't we gonna like join forces

20:09

and let's go you know together. And I was like,

20:11

no, just keep doing anything. Over the side. It

20:13

was very like you out.

20:16

Yeah, I was like just watch it like it was just

20:18

terrible competing with the owner and

20:20

it was just very very not fun

20:23

um. So yeah, So I always talked about

20:25

that as being like, yeah, we sold out, but most people

20:27

would then like, go to the beach, right,

20:30

Well, I wasn't going to the beach. So

20:32

how did you get the idea to build your second

20:35

company? To build jet dot com? Okay, that was the

20:37

fourth but yeah, but the second big one, right, second

20:40

big um just inside

20:43

Amazon for you know, two and a half

20:45

years, continue to build Vipers dot

20:47

com and we hit a bunch of other sites like wag dot

20:49

com and soap dot com, these other websites

20:52

and things, and uh, it

20:54

just felt like we had learned so much and

20:58

still felt like there was a knee for a

21:01

formidable number two competitor. The market was

21:03

growing fast. It was so big e commerce

21:06

and it was growing, and I felt like we

21:08

can you know, I use this acronym VCP

21:10

vision capital people, and I think

21:13

that's all it takes to create an incredible business.

21:16

And we had the vision

21:19

UM. We thought we could get access

21:21

to capital just giving our track record, and

21:23

we thought we could hire the best people in e

21:25

commerce in the world, again given the track record.

21:28

So it's kind of hard to pass up the opportunity

21:31

because you're primed and ready

21:33

to get primed and ready to go. And that's what we did. We

21:35

raised a ton of money

21:37

up front, so

21:39

yeah, just I mean just the pitch deck. I think we raised

21:42

fifty five million with the pitch deck

21:45

UM and we're able to hire an incredible

21:47

team and then we followed it up with another quickly

21:50

five million pre launch. So we had a lot

21:52

of money and uh and made a great

21:54

team. And I always feel like with businesses, if

21:59

you hired an incredible

22:01

team and you're

22:03

in the right size market

22:05

at the right time, you're never gonna lose because

22:08

there will always be a strategic that's

22:11

interested in that right Like, you know, because

22:13

if if there's a lot of big companies like,

22:15

wow, we need to be in this space, it's the

22:17

right time. It's massive, Okay,

22:20

we can't do it ourselves. What's the

22:22

best team in the world. Oh, look at

22:24

jet dot Com. They've got the best e commerce team

22:26

in the world. Why because they have all this capital,

22:28

they hire the best people and

22:31

so it's it's as I always felt it

22:33

was defensible. Some people are against like

22:35

don't waste too much money early, you can burn it in

22:37

the wrong ways and things like that. I've never

22:39

been like a fan of that strategy.

22:41

I would always say, like, raise as much

22:43

money as you can, as early as you can, and

22:46

hire the best team in your industry.

22:48

If it's a big enough market to support, it's got to be a

22:50

big enough market, the biggest tam it's gonna be the right

22:52

time. But if you literally hire

22:55

the best people. That's what we did with Archer, the

22:57

flying car company that I

23:00

invested in two years ago. Two

23:02

founders came in, sat on the couch right upstairs

23:04

and said, we have this vision for this flying car.

23:07

It's basically a drone that carries

23:10

passengers and it's safer, a faster, cheaper,

23:12

all this stuff, big vision. And

23:14

I'm like, Okay, that's the v I get it. It's the right time.

23:17

It's massive market, massive tam

23:19

and well, the two founders

23:21

are great, their second time founders. They

23:24

had a great exit, loved them, had all the

23:26

values and traits that I admire,

23:28

and I think it would be really successful. It's about

23:30

capital. So we need

23:32

to hire a great engineering team, the best

23:35

in the world. And what they told me was, Mark,

23:37

we need five million. Now we're going We'll go out and hire

23:39

we know where they are, will pull the best people from

23:41

the best companies in the world, will have the best engineering

23:43

team, and then we need to raise fifty million to build

23:46

the very best um

23:48

flying car. And then once we

23:50

had that, then we should be able to go out and raise a billion.

23:53

And this was two years ago, and I said

23:55

Okay, I totally get it. I'm gonna

23:57

put five million in here. I'm gonna help you hire

23:59

this great, best in the class team,

24:01

and then I'll kick off the fifty million dollar round and help

24:03

you raise fifty and then you're on your own. And

24:06

played out exactly that five

24:08

million. Hired the very best team in the world. Raise

24:10

fifty because we had the best team in the world. Now

24:13

we're building the best aircraft in the world because

24:15

we have the best team and all the learnings

24:17

from everyone else before us. And they spacked

24:20

and raised a billion, all within two years,

24:22

and now it's at three point seven billion dollar market

24:24

cap company. And it started

24:27

with a big vision and capital

24:30

in this mentality of like, we're gonna hire the very

24:32

best. I don't mean just good people,

24:34

I mean the very best in the

24:36

world. And if

24:38

they didn't raise that billion dollars, there's plenty

24:40

of companies out there would say, wait, you

24:42

only put million this company. You've

24:45

got this incredible state of you are

24:47

playing in the very best team in the world. Yeah, so

24:49

how do you find the best people in the world.

24:52

I get hiring problems all the

24:54

time, right, there's lots of how do I even know that

24:56

the person in front of me is the best. You're just looking

24:58

at competitors who already through the

25:01

process, and so you're just coming in and poaching. Certainly,

25:03

there's the best people tend to work

25:05

at the best companies, so in the space.

25:08

So so that's I think that's one Existing companies

25:10

are to disadvantage in some ways because

25:13

they can offer the upside you can at the

25:15

startup. So I think there's there's

25:17

a reason for people to leave, which is always great.

25:20

Um, but also I've just I've also hone

25:22

my resume reading skills tremendously

25:25

over the years. I used to get burned all the time early

25:27

so many things I just didn't understand about, like

25:31

what things to

25:33

look for in a resume. I think a lot of people that like look

25:35

at a resume and see, like

25:38

I'm looking to hire a CFO.

25:41

Okay, this person is a CFO and there's this company,

25:44

and you're like, okay, great, I'll interview

25:46

them, and you talk to them like, oh, I really like this person,

25:48

and in an hour interview like yeah, let's let's

25:51

hire them because I like them. And you didn't

25:53

really study the resume. You didn't do due diligence.

25:55

You sort of just just saw that there's a CFO

25:57

and you like them, and I call it honey

26:00

you get honeypotted. You know, you just like like the

26:02

person because they're like you.

26:05

You think, okay, this is a great person to get a beer with

26:07

and stuff. But they're not a superstar.

26:09

Most people aren't. If you say superstar, if you define

26:11

it as top ten percent, only one in ten people of superstars.

26:15

So how do you find the one intent? Every

26:17

time? I think on the resume,

26:20

if you are really um

26:23

focused on only accepting

26:26

a certain type of resume to

26:28

interview, much less chance

26:31

that you get you get burned or get honeypotted. And

26:33

like, I've now pretty

26:35

good track record if a resume

26:39

qualifies a superstar, and

26:42

then I bring them in and I'll interview them

26:44

for values and traits, like what

26:46

are the traits to be sure it's a good cultural fit.

26:48

But I don't have to worry about whether or not the superstar.

26:51

A lot of times it's not even people that actually

26:53

have the exact experience. Sometimes you have to sacrifice

26:56

the experience. But I've never sacrifice the

26:58

superstar resume, and superstar resu may

27:00

there's a few qualities that jump out UM.

27:03

The most important of which is um,

27:07

did they show a demonstrable

27:09

level of success in every job that they're

27:11

in, which may seem like yeah, of

27:13

course, of course they no. No, like look

27:16

at the company. Understand how many

27:18

years are there and how many years

27:20

like the top people and the companies would get promoted

27:22

like their Procter and Gamble and they're there

27:24

for five years. Well, I know when you get

27:27

in Proctor Gamble early, you should get promoted

27:29

every two years. So if you don't have at least two promotions,

27:31

that's the yellow flag. But if you're a Proctor

27:33

Gum of five years and you have two promotions, great,

27:36

now you're leave in Procer and Gamble. And this is

27:38

the most important part. When you leave a job,

27:41

superstars see step

27:43

changes in level in

27:45

camp, in company step

27:48

change. You don't see a step change out.

27:50

So so somebody's like you know, the

27:52

starff and their career and their associate, their

27:55

senior associate, their manager, and

27:57

then they leave and you're like wow,

28:00

director, like that was a nice step

28:02

up. It's a better company. And then

28:04

they go director and then two years later senior

28:06

directing like, oh I know that company two years of director

28:08

to seniorrector. That's they must really like this

28:11

person senior director and then there for two

28:13

years and there four years, five

28:15

years while they like state that companies a while, these

28:17

big moves and their senior director and I'm

28:19

like, okay, I'm not moving a lesson's

28:22

VP boom VP s

28:25

v P. Like wow, this person

28:27

in you know, college twelve years

28:29

has gone from graduate to s

28:32

v P at a good company. I

28:34

know that s v P and that company that that's

28:36

gonna be one of the youngest. People like that, that's

28:38

a superstar. And I can short

28:40

resumes to people and they'll say, you know, I totally get

28:42

it. Yeah, that that's a superstar. Okay,

28:45

then just don't settle, like wait

28:47

until you see a resume that

28:49

has and scream superstar

28:51

and then bring them in. Most people doesn't work like

28:54

that. How many companies are you invested in

28:56

right now? Yeah, Vision Capital people, there's probably

28:58

six companies of which m CO

29:01

founders so really involved, two of which

29:03

that's your day. You're working on those companies all day

29:05

today. I'm watching those companies, are working on the Timberwolves.

29:08

I'm working on congrats on that. By the way,

29:10

thank you crazy. Yeah, where

29:13

do you think e commerce goes from?

29:15

Here? We're post covid, We're out

29:17

of it, we're post post right, it's vaccinated.

29:20

Covid showed us a lot about what people can do

29:23

from the home, from their computers. People

29:25

are trying to bring physical products

29:27

to the Internet more than ever before. Right,

29:29

No one wants to go to stores, but they kind of do, Like

29:32

what do you what do you think we are in? From

29:35

the guy that a lot of people think predicted

29:38

the future anyway, Yeah, I think there's

29:41

two with the early stages

29:43

right now of what I think will be two big

29:45

mega trends in retail. One

29:48

is social commerce and the other's conversational

29:50

commerce. UM social commerce.

29:53

We just announced that we just arod and

29:55

I just invested in a company called now with UM

29:57

the connect connects brands to inf

30:00

answers. I think there's a really big future

30:03

on people buying products off social

30:05

media platform So I think that that's that's a that's

30:07

a megatrend, that's early stages, and the other one is

30:09

a conversational commerce. I think people

30:12

will be using text and voice to

30:14

basically converse things that they want to buy

30:16

with someone who knows them as well as their best

30:18

friend, who has the knowledge of the

30:20

most uh knowledgeable person

30:23

in the showroom floor of a specialty

30:25

retailer. Um. And

30:27

I think search engines in twenty years are going to

30:29

be something people will laugh about, like

30:31

the cassette tape, Like so you needed to

30:34

like go to a search engine. You're typing one

30:36

toaster and you've got ten thousand responses

30:38

and how did you know what's to buy? And you

30:40

had to read reviews and filter and search

30:42

like that seems tiring. It is,

30:45

it's tiring you. You should be able to

30:47

just say to you in a conversation

30:49

away, Hey, I want to buy a toaster, Oh

30:52

Ryan, yeah, of course, I know. I know

30:54

what you would ideally want. Here, let me

30:56

give you a couple options, and you're like, this

30:59

one's great, but have one in black? Yeah

31:01

great, boom, I'll take the black one. And

31:03

then it's just done, like there's no you

31:05

just converse and and and shot.

31:07

That way, you don't need to to this

31:10

archaic you know, search

31:12

engine and do all this work and scrolling,

31:15

especially on products that are more

31:17

commoditized, like I'm

31:19

sure you know there'll still be some clothing

31:22

apparel and things like that that you want to browse

31:24

and discover like discovery. But

31:26

for the most part, most things you don't need discovery,

31:28

you know, you just you just need something

31:30

for anyone who's listening. And I think, um

31:33

uh, you've been awesome and

31:35

taking a considerable amount of time with me today,

31:37

So this has been great. Um But like

31:39

as a last little piece of advice

31:42

to people who are

31:44

you know, either out of work now or

31:47

thinking about quitting their job or doing something

31:49

they don't like right, kind of like where

31:51

you were when you're in the bank, great job, it's fine,

31:54

and you're on that ledge of hey, we can

31:56

go and do something much much better for myself.

31:59

What what what? What if I do you have for those people who

32:01

are just too scared,

32:03

too nervous. They have responsibilities, there's

32:05

life. It's not going to work out, like

32:07

it's one thing to say yeah,

32:09

but you never know, so just go try it. Yeah. I

32:12

think I have a have a unique

32:14

advice here, and not everyone

32:17

shares the same way of thinking.

32:19

My advice is there's

32:22

no halfway, Like you can't

32:24

dip your toe in, do

32:27

it on nights and weekends and things like that's

32:30

the chance of it working is just so much lower.

32:32

My thing is like jump, like literally

32:35

put yourself in a position where

32:37

you cannot afford to fail. Some

32:40

people do the opposite and say, well I can't do that because

32:42

I can't afford to fail. Yeah, well,

32:44

put yourself in the position that you can't afford to fail,

32:46

and you won't like you just won't let

32:48

yourself um, and so

32:51

it's uh, there

32:53

there are people capable of doing things that they don't

32:55

even know are possible. I'd like to use

32:58

the six gear analogy where

33:00

I think, you know, you're working in a bank. I was

33:02

killing myself working eight hundred hours a week.

33:05

People lawyers and things, lots of professions

33:07

working really hard. You're in fourth

33:10

gear, and people like fourth gear. No

33:12

way, man, I'm in sixth gear. I'm like, d

33:14

I can't go any harder? Is you can?

33:17

You can? Your life not on the line. You're

33:19

not gonna get killed if you if

33:21

if you know, if you get fired, you'll find another job.

33:23

Like you're not in six gear. When

33:25

you actually jump and you quit and

33:28

you have a family and you have to pay bills and

33:30

you quit and you have a certain amount of money

33:33

before it runs out, and you have

33:35

to make it work, you

33:37

wind up doing things that you didn't know you

33:39

were capable of doing. Like literally, it's

33:41

like it's like if I told you, let

33:43

me look at you're in good shape. But if I told you, like

33:46

you need to like bike across the country

33:49

in thirty days, you

33:51

might say, no, way, I can't do that. I'm like out of shape.

33:53

That's like, you know, a hundred miles a day for thirty

33:55

straight days. I can't do it. Okay,

33:58

gun to your head, kill you if you don't

34:00

do it suddenly like you do,

34:03

I'll do it. You know, you might be like nearly

34:05

dead when you get there, but you like in your

34:07

mind you think, no, I

34:09

won't die, I'll figure it out, like

34:11

I'll somehow someway, I'll figure it out.

34:14

That's kind of what happens with with entrepreneurship.

34:16

When you put yourself in that position. You go

34:19

from I can't I'll

34:21

figure it out, like I'm not gonna

34:23

die, I'm gonna figure it out. And and it's just

34:25

there's a different thing that comes and takes

34:28

over your body and your mind and

34:31

enables you to focus in a way that just would be impossible

34:34

if you had like one ft in. So many

34:36

people do that like kind of like try it or

34:39

and they're like, I don't know why this is not working, like I'm

34:41

I'm like, we have a full time job. Like

34:44

you gotta quit, you gotta go, you gotta jump.

34:48

Big Money Energy is hosted by me

34:50

Ryan Sirhands. It's produced by Mike

34:53

Cosparelli and Joe Loresca and executive

34:55

produced by Lindsay By

34:57

More podcasts like Big Money In or

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