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and welcome back to

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Outward, Slate's podcast about

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everything LGBTQ. I'm Palisha,

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Outward's lead producer, and typically I'm in

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the end credits, not behind the mic.

0:58

But this week, I'm stepping in for

1:00

Jules and Brian for a very special

1:02

Valentine's Day episode. My credentials?

1:04

Well, I'm a queer lesbian, certified lover

1:06

girl with a Libra Venus and a

1:08

Libra Rising and a former florist. So

1:10

this holiday is my bread and butter.

1:13

You can ask my girlfriend or your

1:15

local astrologer. And what

1:17

better way to explore queer love in all

1:19

of its forms than with poetry? The joy

1:21

and suffering of yearning, of waxing

1:23

poetic about unrequited love, articulating deeply

1:26

felt overwhelming desire. It's all built

1:28

into the fabric of queerness. We

1:30

know intimately the barriers to loving

1:32

freely that exist, that have existed,

1:34

and poetry has always been there

1:36

to express it all. Whether it's

1:38

the letters that come from the

1:40

long-distance romances we're known for or

1:43

the poetry of a short personals

1:45

ad. Horny gay poets and writers

1:47

across history have given us so

1:49

much, and it's only right that

1:51

we honor that history this Valentine's

1:53

Day. Today I'll be

1:55

talking to Sareh Jarell Johnson, a poet and

1:57

writer based in New York. Saree's

2:00

first collection of poetry, Slingshot, won the

2:02

Lambda Literary Prize for Poetry in 2020,

2:05

and his second collection, Watch Night, Out This

2:07

Spring, won the 2023 James Laughlin Award.

2:11

He was the founder of the

2:13

literary journal Deaf Poet Society and

2:15

the inaugural Brooklyn Public Library Poet

2:17

in Residence. His work has appeared

2:19

in the New York Times and

2:21

Yale Review, among other publications. Saree

2:23

is also a part of the

2:25

organization Sins Invalid, a disability justice-based

2:28

performance project that celebrates artists with

2:30

disabilities, centralizing artists of color,

2:32

and queer artists. We'll hear

2:34

some of Saree's poems and chat about the

2:36

particular romance of queer love, but you should

2:38

know, we'll be hearing poems that get a

2:40

little erotic. So if you're not

2:43

wearing headphones, here's your heads up. We'll get into

2:45

it all after the break. As

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a major research institution, Arizona State

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University offers the most online bachelor's

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degree programs, along with world-class faculty

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and dedicated support. Discover

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why ASU is ranked number one in

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innovation for nine consecutive years. Tap

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to learn more. When I

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say true crime, we all have some piece

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of media that immediately comes to mind. True

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crime is a phenomenon, but what are

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the true crime stories that no real

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fan should miss? What

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is the true crime canon? I'm Shana

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Ross, a senior producer at Slate and

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a true crime author. Over

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the last few months, I've been working

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with Slate columnist Laura Miller and Editor-in-Chief

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Hilary Fry to put together a list

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of the 25 best pieces of true

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crime, from books to podcasts

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to magazine articles and more. We

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dig into everything fans and casual

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observers alike should take in in

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the true crime genre. Go

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to slate.com to check out the true crime

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canon today. We

4:01

need to talk about friendship.

4:03

Hi, I'm Courtney Martin. And I'm

4:05

Carvel Wallace. And we host

4:07

a show from Slate called How To where

4:09

real people bring us their problems and we

4:12

find the wisest people we know to give

4:14

them advice. This month while

4:16

everyone's abuzz about Valentine's Day and

4:18

romantic love, we're gonna give friendship

4:20

the attention it deserves. That's

4:22

right, we love friendship and we're

4:24

gonna help you find friends in

4:27

unexpected places, evolve your friendships, and

4:29

recover from those terrible friend breakups.

4:32

Friendship is central to our joy,

4:34

our resilience, even our health. So join

4:36

us as we talk friends together.

4:39

Search for Slate's How To wherever you

4:42

listen. Welcome

5:09

back. I'm now joined by poet

5:12

Saray Jarell Johnson. Happy

5:14

Valentine's Day, Saray. Happy Valentine's Day,

5:16

Palace. How are you? I'm

5:18

good. Do you celebrate Valentine's Day? Oh

5:20

boy, do I ever. I love Valentine's Day.

5:22

I am like a pink and white and

5:24

red type of girly.

5:26

I love that for me. I'm also

5:28

a Pisces so I feel like this

5:30

is when I really feel the Pisces

5:32

season brewing in my life. Definitely. How

5:35

do you like to celebrate? Well it

5:37

is a day that

5:39

I, in the traditional style, like I

5:41

like a romantic dinner. I like a

5:44

very lavish dessert. I like a

5:46

lobster situation. Yeah, I

5:50

really love Valentine's. I'd like to put on a early

5:54

aughts, late 90s,

5:56

romantic, black comedy, you know,

5:58

on Tubi probably. and

6:00

just really snuggle down. Yeah,

6:03

I have too many Libra placements to not

6:05

love Valentine's Day, so I'm in the same

6:07

boat. Do you have any hot takes on

6:09

queering Valentine's Day at all, a little

6:12

outside the traditional? Do I have any hot takes

6:14

on queering Valentine's Day? You know, I

6:17

think that romantic love

6:19

has its own queerness anyway. I

6:23

very much appreciate, I'm on TikTok, I'm

6:25

a millennial of TikTok, and I think

6:27

it's very interesting, the takes on romance

6:30

and why we have romance

6:32

at all, right? If traditionally

6:35

love or marriage is an economic proposition,

6:37

the idea that relationships would be about

6:39

love, to me, is already a little

6:42

bit queered. And I also

6:44

think that any opportunity to be

6:46

a queer in love is

6:48

just a nice opportunity. As a

6:50

gay person, as a trans person,

6:53

there are so many obstacles to love. So

6:55

any opportunity to just really be able to

6:57

show my love and affection and adoration for

6:59

the people in my life, I feel like

7:02

it's already inherently queered because it's already so

7:04

fraught. Absolutely, I'm so glad we get

7:06

to talk to you about this today. I'm

7:08

like very excited. And it

7:10

makes sense with all this love of love that you

7:12

are a love poet. Can you tell

7:14

us about the different kinds of love you write about? Absolutely,

7:17

so my first book, Slingshot, is

7:19

about erotic love. It is very

7:21

erotic. It

7:23

is also about loving

7:25

people and

7:29

not knowing whether or not love

7:31

should be a feeling or an

7:33

action. And the

7:36

protagonist in Slingshot in

7:39

Maschine Mahogany and Bronze is very caught

7:42

up on feelings of passion and

7:45

really feels like that is the essence of love.

7:49

And to the detriment of his

7:51

own ability to love

7:53

other people through his actions and through his

7:56

commitments, especially

7:58

the people in his family. Because... Lab

8:00

can be very difficult a who on

8:02

in so many different ways right? and

8:04

even like think you might like clearing

8:06

Valentine's day or whatever it's like. Well

8:08

if you have like a very complex

8:10

relationship with your parents may make let

8:12

him have his love get crossed up

8:15

there. like if you have a very

8:17

complex relationship yourself. Had is Lacrosse up

8:19

there and. And that's

8:21

really what I look at in Watch

8:23

Night Is Lakes meant more familiar love?

8:25

There's some familiar love or lack of

8:28

love in Slingshot, but Watch Night On

8:30

is really a book about wanting love

8:32

from family and having to create families

8:34

that love you. And so I think

8:37

that that's his has been on my

8:39

mind. gallic. Thinking about what kinds of

8:41

love can survive the rise of Fascism

8:43

the continuation of fascism is really close

8:46

to my heart. He. I love

8:48

inhabit so many different dimensions of our

8:50

allies and I think that exploring that

8:52

through poetry is so interesting. And I've

8:55

always thought of poetry has like the

8:57

clearest corner of writing. It's like the

8:59

smaller percentage of an overall culture of

9:01

writing the usually has it's own space.

9:04

Is it something you know exists, but

9:06

you might struggle to find out how

9:08

to build community around it? And like

9:11

kind of in a joking way, it's

9:13

something a lot. Of people explore in

9:15

college in Sf. but it's. So I

9:17

guess little sort of associations and mind,

9:20

what are your thoughts on poetry As

9:22

a. Clear. Media. or maybe just inherently

9:24

clear. Yeah I do think poetry is

9:26

inherently clear. I don't think many things

9:28

are inherently clear. He buried like I'm

9:30

not lag as yeah I'm not a

9:32

the math that way. I did like

9:34

things you experiment in college. I was

9:36

a queer theory undergrad arm is so

9:38

I guess thought about lot about that.

9:40

But I think what makes puts a

9:42

queer is lake. Effect that

9:44

it's inherently spiritual freight like I personally think john

9:46

or is kind of faith, but I think form

9:48

is very real. And choosing

9:51

brevity and when the. Fashionable.

9:53

Style is len eight and they

9:56

just creates lots of possibilities to

9:58

choose to be out. The Native.

10:00

What society to release societies And that's how

10:02

you perjury right? It is a feminist art

10:05

form. It is an outsider art form. even

10:07

when your the inside when you look at

10:09

the history of poetry does her when like

10:11

poets are often living on the fringes admit

10:13

that Cyst. That. Sort of

10:16

where we belong raid on

10:18

the poetry of insiders. Ah,

10:20

Sin is even like. Outsiders

10:23

are inside. I think that that's something that I've

10:25

always been struck with. Lay bad. Lord Byron are

10:27

Oscar Wilde where it's like you are inside of

10:30

English site? Yeah, we're like. Rich.

10:32

People were coming from families that are

10:34

doing things that are not and slate

10:36

gray you're finding yourself still on the

10:39

upside rank as the Lord Byron. In

10:41

addition to being kind of an Apple

10:43

Nino, he has this limp his his

10:45

music comforts. Ah, and you know he's

10:47

by an Oscar Wilde frolic ounces mean

10:50

by as well and in prison because

10:52

of it, right? So even when you

10:54

are an insider, there's just like this

10:56

constant active negotiating. How

10:58

to speak to everyone from the far

11:01

this corner of society. Well. Today

11:03

we're going to get into your poetry there

11:05

and we're going to start with an erotic

11:07

poems from your book Slingshot called Doppelganger Nas

11:09

wondering if he did tell us a little

11:11

bit about it before he read. Sure, Ah,

11:13

Doppelganger. Is exactly what it says. There's

11:16

nothing on a groups. There's something complex

11:18

about Doppelganger. It is about wanting to

11:20

fuck somebody in a motel and and

11:22

fucking with on a motel efforts now

11:24

arm and a bow. It's I wonder

11:26

if you know your lover to wondering

11:28

if you'll ever know your lover, if

11:30

if they're even knowable. Rate like. I

11:33

really believe that the people are fundamentally

11:35

mobile, and I also believe that life

11:37

imitates art. I think that this home

11:39

was an attempt. Like a lot of

11:41

poems, the most of poems and Slingshot

11:43

our attempts. to create some space for

11:45

the way that i as a transact

11:48

will have ran with this isn't than

11:50

many depicts people like me and there's

11:52

that much art and emus conversation about

11:54

people like myself and i think that

11:57

is actually for closes upon the possibility

11:59

is imitates art and so

12:01

this is one more of my attempts

12:03

in slingshot. Applebanger.

12:09

Queer utopians think human beings are

12:11

perfectable but we are not. We're

12:13

just correctable. In

12:16

an hourly motel I recalled that

12:18

Kim Adenosio poem about tattoos and

12:21

ask you how many you have although I

12:23

count 14 every time you doze and add

12:25

your spit to the mysterious stains on the

12:27

pillows but the ink proliferates

12:29

in twilight sticky gold? Is

12:32

a cover-up one or two

12:34

or three tattoos and how many

12:37

about your forced disappearances and

12:39

how many about the appearance of manhood and

12:42

how many about being a man with

12:44

his face buried in pillows a short

12:47

black man hydroplaning down are impossible. I

12:51

hate how much I love when you suck

12:53

my toes and I despise you for making

12:55

me beg. That's why I can't know you.

12:58

That's why I stay perpetually ahead of

13:00

your judgment. You look just like

13:02

me when I'm fucking you from behind. I'll

13:04

fuck that shrimp cock to the glove pot plus

13:07

one extra watt before I figure it out. I

13:09

don't know God anymore but let's

13:12

stay here on our knees and

13:14

wait for him to come. I

13:23

wanted to talk about this idea of a

13:25

doppelganger because you know you said

13:28

that the idea of a doppelganger is really

13:30

simple and I was also just thinking about

13:32

how like the idea of being with a

13:34

doppelganger or someone who looks like you is

13:36

such a queer trope of dating. People fall

13:38

into that chap a lot so I guess

13:40

with that perspective because you talk more about

13:42

what you're thinking when you're writing a poem

13:45

about a doppelganger of somebody. Yeah well the

13:47

thing about a doppelganger is you're not supposed to see your own.

13:49

You'll die. That's like a harbinger of death.

13:51

In fact I'm trying to remember who it

13:54

was. Like there is a

13:56

poet whose

13:58

wife saw his doppelganger while

14:00

he was at sea and he was dead. Soon

14:03

thereafter, people see their doppelgangers, they pass away.

14:06

And I think that for me,

14:08

it's about fear of being seen. You

14:11

don't want somebody to see you as

14:13

you are. You regard it

14:15

as imperiling. And I think,

14:17

well, the person I wrote this poem about

14:19

certainly felt like it was imperiling. And so

14:21

really thinking about, what does it mean to

14:24

be seen? We

14:26

talk about good representation or bad representation.

14:28

But the feeling of being seen is

14:30

uncomfortable. It's not fun. It

14:33

isn't fun. And I think that some

14:35

of the queer doppelganger trope comes

14:37

from the extreme beauty

14:40

standards that queers live under.

14:43

So where it's like, I like you because you look

14:45

like me. And that means I

14:47

look good. I'm attracted to you. And

14:50

I think that in queer community, having

14:52

a beautiful partner can become a status symbol in

14:54

a way that feels very toxic. Having

14:57

a partner who society believes is beautiful.

14:59

Who's like jacked

15:02

or tall enough or looks

15:04

a certain way, has a certain body type can

15:06

be such a status symbol for people that it

15:08

can be, I think a little gross. I think

15:10

that that's one of the, I don't

15:12

have a personal identity as queer and gay. I

15:16

guess literally like many gay people I am

15:18

bi, but on a day-to-day basis, queer is

15:20

not something I identify with. I'm not being

15:22

like, yes, as a queer person, as something way

15:24

that you're supposed to refer to me. And

15:28

I think in part because like, I really

15:30

do think queerness is something we're striving to

15:32

be, right? We're striving to live in a

15:34

world where gender isn't

15:36

the primary factor on which people are

15:38

judged or oppressed, right? Like

15:40

where everyone can love the

15:43

way that they wanna love and live the way

15:45

that they wanna live. I don't think we live

15:47

in that kind of world. I don't. I think

15:49

that like there are so many barriers to love.

15:51

And I think that not

15:54

identifying as capital Q queer

15:57

is one of the ways I remind myself that

15:59

there is so. far to go. The way

16:01

that we talk about looking for one another or

16:03

falling in love is so rarely, you know, so

16:05

rarely meets the aspiration set up by the term

16:08

queer that I think that really

16:10

closely looking at each other and really wanting to

16:12

please each other and, you know, not to be

16:14

religious but I am religious, you know, seeing that

16:16

on each other is

16:18

like about as close as I can get, right? And

16:20

I think that, you

16:22

know, Slingshot really regards the erotic

16:25

as religious, really does regard love

16:27

as a religious and spiritual experience

16:30

and I think most of my work does because that's what

16:32

I believe. Yeah, the desirability politics of

16:34

the queer community are quite intense and

16:36

I appreciate you bringing that layer into

16:38

this conversation. You've done a lot of

16:40

activism around sexuality and since invalid,

16:43

a disability justice-based performance project you're

16:45

a part of looks at the

16:47

taboo of disabled pleasure embodiment and

16:50

eroticism quite directly. So

16:52

I'm wondering if you could continue to speak to

16:55

the power of eroticism in a

16:57

political context. Yeah, absolutely.

16:59

And, you know, since started out

17:02

as a disability sexuality project, so

17:05

it's definitely something close to my mind. In college

17:08

I was a sexual, you know, sexuality

17:10

educator particularly for lesbians at the time

17:14

and I would give these workshops and I think

17:16

that like the

17:19

less information you have about what

17:21

sex is supposed to look like for you, I think the

17:24

better sex you probably have and I think that's part of

17:26

the problem that straight people seem to have is that like

17:28

they have like their ideas of sex can be so prescriptive

17:31

that like nobody's having any fun and everybody's really worried about

17:33

how they look and like who's looking at them and like

17:35

whether or not they're doing it right and what they don't

17:37

want, you know, like what they don't want

17:39

to be known to do and like what other people

17:41

do, right? And I think that queers are actually very

17:43

lucky that we don't have as many of

17:46

those prescriptions because it makes

17:49

sexuality a little more adventurous

17:53

and specific and

17:55

as a disabled person I think

17:58

No one knows better than disability. Will people all

18:00

the different ways that six can lead like

18:02

I remember on Twitter. buried like gas was

18:05

this elastic Share This Share What Like you

18:07

know this as store with elastic bands over

18:09

and were like why would I ever need

18:11

that for sex. And it's like, what

18:13

about want? What about wanting. It for

18:15

sex for hint like what about like what

18:17

if it makes your experience two percent better

18:19

in that two percent with exactly what you

18:21

need And I think that that is such

18:23

a disabled approach to Sachs right? Like I

18:25

think about like the length of a handle

18:27

on a Hitachi magic wand. In fact, I

18:29

believe the blink modern dildo was invented by

18:31

a black says. Hey

18:55

this is Mary Harris. Host of

18:57

Slates daily news podcast like

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least.coms as the podcast. Or.

20:08

Comeback. I wanna turn

20:10

back to the poem for a

20:12

second because I love the opening

20:14

night so much about being perceptible

20:16

versus tractable and the phrase clear

20:18

utopians really jumped out at any

20:20

says wonder if he could tell

20:22

us like, who are clear utopians

20:25

in your mind's eye and how

20:27

love connects to this idea has

20:29

been correct. Double Ah.

20:31

Absolutely how. I

20:33

look at your local utopian and in

20:36

Iowa me to be absolutely a me

20:38

to the and in fact the our

20:40

i Was Born ways I you know

20:42

I guess like an intentional community at

20:44

one point called the Fair a colony

20:46

com utopian project where people left the

20:48

city and moved to army New Jersey

20:51

to figure shit hot right So like

20:53

I was born with that kind of

20:55

spirit of but when I think of

20:57

utopians to Sicily people who want the

20:59

world to be perfect and I think

21:01

the world will never be perfect. But

21:04

I do think that we should do whatever

21:06

we can to improve our lives in the

21:08

lives of others like I really do. And

21:10

I also think that we have to have

21:12

measures for when human beings fall short of

21:14

their policy aims. And so some of that

21:16

isn't that poem to Right Leg: How much

21:19

of your bullshit is about being a man

21:21

Like how many much of it is about

21:23

the spaces you're not allowed to inhabit because

21:25

of how people view you as a black

21:27

man, right? Like how much of it is

21:29

you limiting yourself on? I'm a non binary

21:32

person. Ran like I think. That most marvelous

21:34

it would. Gender is very complex and I

21:36

was raised by masculinity is so I always

21:38

knew that that was not me Graham Lake

21:40

I was raised by i guess he would

21:42

call they got gender nonconforming masculine these in

21:44

lesbian community and he no lag think we're

21:47

just so mask on their of they were

21:49

more masculine any men that I'd still ever

21:51

met right? like just very very masculine people

21:53

and on. i always knew

21:55

that was is not gonna be me a specific i

21:57

will be a disappointment of his and So

22:00

as someone who is a lover of men and

22:03

masculinities and also femininities too,

22:05

I'm always struck by how

22:08

chained up my male partner seems. It's

22:10

just like, oh, this is holding you

22:13

down. But

22:15

also it's holding you up too. And so

22:17

thinking about the ways that, you know, some

22:19

of the stuff that gets said in like,

22:21

again, you know, Capital Q queer community now

22:24

about masculinity, like sometimes it's like, oh, like

22:26

you think like men and masculinities is like

22:28

a title that makes sense any more

22:30

than women and femmes, you know, like

22:32

neither of those formations make any fucking sense, in

22:35

my opinion. But I think that we can

22:37

say that like the

22:40

regional character, I guess, of like masculinity,

22:42

you know, in my community, at least

22:45

in my black community and my gender

22:47

queer community, my generical form community, trans

22:49

masculine community, trans male community. Sometimes

22:53

it's like, damn, this is making you a lot better. But

22:55

sometimes it's like, damn, this is making you a lot fucking worse,

22:57

you know? And like, how do

23:00

we love on masculinities, love

23:02

on men while simultaneously be like, be better in the

23:04

same way? Like, how do we love on cis people?

23:06

Right? How do we, I think all the time, like,

23:08

how do I love on the systems in my community

23:10

while simultaneously being like, stop being a fucking transphobic, you're

23:12

fucking transphobic and you're making my life bad. And like,

23:15

this rhetoric has material consequences for people

23:18

while simultaneously being like, wow, like you're wonderful and I love

23:20

you. Like how do we hold those things for

23:23

each other without like lifting one up to

23:25

an impossible height, right? The parts that we

23:27

like, oh my God, they're just so transformative

23:29

and magical and perfect. And the parts that

23:31

we hate, you have to get out of here. It's

23:34

either pedestal or disposal. There's nothing in between. And

23:38

we kind of pick out who is going

23:40

to be on that pedestal and

23:42

who's always going to be good and right. And

23:44

like who we want to just kick out entirely

23:46

instead of seeing our community as imperfect. Each

23:50

and every one of us as needing

23:53

compassion, correction and care. But

23:55

we don't think that. And, you know, a lot of that is

23:57

like Certainly transphobias. In

24:00

a. Folksy. To experience things will

24:02

be able mean I even identify as

24:04

France and. And so

24:06

thinking about what it is like

24:09

an. To love people

24:11

who live outside of what. Politics

24:14

as is good including quit politics.

24:16

Ah what it means to be

24:18

and mean the with a base

24:20

I'm. In a way

24:22

that. Isn't full lives, pedestals and

24:24

either. Is something that

24:26

my writing concerns. I. Don't

24:28

claim that I know how to get it right or that. Are

24:32

you know that I am the one

24:34

who is perfect? But I think that.

24:37

In fact, I think that part of my writing

24:39

is an exercise and stripping myself have. Access

24:41

Ego. Make really thinking about like in

24:44

what way the ama imperfect you cope with it

24:46

like and what we them I'm not doing as

24:48

well. Like: in what ways can my work be

24:50

more considered and actually think that that's something that

24:52

shows up very strong in my writing and is

24:54

like my own. Failures

24:57

and ah, my

24:59

own imperfections. Yeah,

25:01

That's very real and maybe a little

25:03

obvious to bring up all about Love

25:06

that bell Hooks and and Hands day.

25:08

but I think reading that was the

25:10

first time my views on lover really

25:12

challenged. So for listeners who haven't yet

25:14

read it, the seminal Black Feminist Tax

25:16

breaks down the concept of love and

25:18

signs it and explores the many ways

25:20

love can exist in our lives. And

25:23

I was wondering survey what kinds of.

25:25

Our or poetry or writing has tones

25:27

your ideas about less. I say this

25:29

all the time. Everyone should be readings

25:31

here. and Bridge for if you're queer,

25:33

you're listening to this. Please return. Bridge

25:35

worth. A

25:37

Genius! Ah so absolutely left. Hunter Blues

25:40

is about a tight knit posts enslavement

25:42

community of queer and trans people who

25:44

are just loving on each other. Imperfect

25:46

leave then well and in every single

25:49

kind of way and I think it's

25:51

a beautiful What a beautiful work. Who

25:53

else has since May of view of

25:56

love Toni Morrison of course. I

25:58

think Tony Morrison has probably done. In for

26:00

my understanding of love. I'm hit

26:02

close friend from high school and

26:05

after. Passed away last

26:07

year and I read Sula twice and

26:09

like a day I was just like

26:11

solar now and alum when I think

26:14

a Sula, the heat. That's

26:16

definitely a book about loving and perfect

26:19

people. Right Leg Zola? Peace? Look. Justice

26:22

for now because Saw a piece is not a nice

26:24

person like she was her mama. Burn up. She.

26:27

Was a bunch of people deserve pathways with like.

26:29

Was interesting but like ultimately see, I think

26:31

that bad character figure. Is this gonna be

26:33

some point in her life that comes where

26:35

she can just experience normal love and when

26:37

she finds out that can't seats I said

26:40

monday. I think that that's

26:42

so real bright, like that level of vulnerability you

26:44

know, like I think that so really double. Also

26:46

the book Love by Tony Morrison. I think that's

26:48

along with their sit up and healthy eating shrimp

26:50

and they're just like I hate you. But you

26:52

can't leave and I'm not leaving. So we're done.

26:54

I sit here, hate each other until the end.

26:56

a time skipping that that. Has

26:59

whole lot of people Love Go! And

27:02

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting. More.

27:04

But like sometimes this is what the fuck

27:06

and it's them and Mrs what it looks

27:08

like to read enough somebody I'm unfortunately. Is

27:12

sometimes side warmed. Them have to endure the

27:14

parts where this isn't as truth until we

27:16

get back there a bluff or that there's

27:18

love contained even in them. Non.

27:20

Love. What else feel like

27:22

there is like so much. Those

27:24

are some amazing recommendations to get

27:26

some started and I think about

27:29

Tony Morrison or Bell Hooks Us.

27:31

I know earlier and dislike a

27:33

lot of feminists black work revolving

27:35

around love and community in the

27:37

collectors and so I was wondering

27:39

what role has community played. And

27:41

learning or relearning about love for you. All

27:44

that said, he confessed. And so the Book

27:46

Watch Ne is about Once a party that

27:48

I had for years and years and years

27:50

where I dislike grabbed every black queer dreads

27:52

birth and around me are like go on

27:54

Ids near the eve of favour Watch night

27:57

and in part that was because I'd love

27:59

to party. You know, Pandemic so

28:01

less now, but like you know, like back

28:03

into the I Love To party and I

28:05

knew that I wasn't gonna be cooking on

28:08

New Year's Day so everything had to be

28:10

done on Whitesnake. Everything. Had to be

28:12

done. And so it was my way

28:14

of making. Sure, Everything was done to the

28:16

point where it rewired in my head as that's

28:18

when we do it. You know, growing up in

28:21

the church, and you know I grew up African

28:23

Methodist Episcopal. Yeah, my great grandmother was a mother.

28:25

The church. My grandmother was a church nurse. So

28:27

what's night? As. A kid us that

28:29

interests you are sitting in see we're praying you're

28:32

tearing right leg. That was what she did on

28:34

watch name and so you know some love and

28:36

trust that all of these black queer and trans

28:38

people must have had for me. Light com to

28:40

Watson a party I trust you enough to come

28:43

to your wasn't a party and not think that

28:45

under the get prayed over called to the op's

28:47

her right I trust you add love you enough

28:49

to come to this right even if we were

28:52

the closest friends right? Like many black queer and

28:54

trans people with a fair amount of church time,

28:56

A trusted me and up come to my watch.

28:58

And a party and eat. A lot of people said to me

29:00

over those years. I didn't

29:03

know what we're going to be assessed. I

29:05

didn't know what with the if we're gonna

29:07

be. Ah mom. And.

29:10

Dad. Have a so special to me. I'm

29:12

not a very I'm not like very social

29:15

like I have a pretty low social need

29:17

am I'm autistic and so so situation can

29:19

be awkward for me said it was always

29:21

a time where I was like oh lake.

29:24

Practice. And I do. And community. Not just the

29:26

party, but like everything around it. Like this is

29:28

something that I do with my communities. Something that

29:30

I do in communities. The way the I practice

29:33

my faith in community with the people immediately around

29:35

me. And and always has been so much.

29:37

To me, ellison we sister left. Yeah, I

29:39

think that's a really wonderful when to this next. Tommy

29:41

have press old familiar. I'll let

29:44

you take nice. Okay,

29:46

awesome earlier. When

29:49

last night breaks and we're all still together. When

29:52

the tablet shadow is sucks from the corners

29:54

of last year and house class and easy

29:57

Tomorrow's we eat and we become a single

29:59

thing. Forgetting the turn

30:01

of the card so far behind this as

30:03

to be before us again. Tonight

30:06

we will make new promises, make love all

30:08

night, and lose our tempers. Drink to sway.

30:11

Subtle night and not be sweet about it.

30:13

neither just to be together. And

30:16

if this one tax and x or falls off

30:18

the wagon again if we forget to slip of

30:20

your sweet in light of your coin or states

30:22

no such thing. Will

30:24

come back to learn. Will turn

30:26

to you and listen to your song. Tonight and

30:28

tomorrow will find a way to retire the habit.

30:31

Apologize tomorrow and so sincerely as

30:34

to flush the hurt. We

30:37

people have night runs the wood

30:39

paneled liquor stores people have been

30:41

turned out experience people of sweat

30:43

people have put together than disabled

30:45

com morning. Joy. Dot

30:47

in each corner as we walk home in

30:49

or with our finest. Next. Year

30:52

again. Next. Year

30:54

or plant the special morning glories

30:56

drip again in a once we'd

30:58

own stamp of dirt save seed

31:00

for tomorrow and smug assumption it

31:02

will com and it will come.

31:05

Corners pressing out the old ways,

31:07

evil or divine multiplying like night

31:09

across the meridian. The

31:13

sap that snaps as eat together.

31:16

The vast drumbeat of gravity that helps

31:18

us up each in turn next year

31:20

will learn to ride it in our

31:23

stirrups. Ankles turning steer us past the

31:25

feudal present. So what? he that something

31:27

in. Next year we'll meet

31:29

up after the meetings. working together. We.

31:32

Are your community. We love you! Com

31:35

the late tomorrow or whenever. I

31:38

know that the hardest part can be the knights. Maybe

31:41

you don't feel it yet, but I think

31:43

you turn the corner. Hark, the New Year

31:45

in Sequins ringing her bell in the corner

31:47

of the sweat fog room. The clock hands

31:49

kiss you turn to face me, your lips

31:51

bless across my neck until the night and

31:53

twilight questions than snore and weight of night

31:55

that can. Might. As

31:57

well sleep. Till had to work at. Tomorrow.

32:01

I'll watch your eyes slicker in the cold room.

32:03

Let's stay together. I. Wasn't sure

32:05

but. No insert. A

32:08

See you. And love your coin. Thank

32:11

you for spending New Years with more people. Their.

32:13

Skin turn glow in st streetlight.

32:16

My. People. Whose. Glory rivals

32:18

the night. Think

32:23

so much for joining us today and

32:26

before we go. Do you have any

32:28

words for the lovers out there? You

32:30

know my keep at it. A I

32:32

think that. You know things can

32:34

be transients, but like. Why

32:36

not keep going? Why not love other? Seen

32:39

as I not love the trees. Why

32:41

not love the earth? Why not love

32:43

a pet? Why not love yourself? Why

32:45

not love of your ancestors? Why not?

32:47

Will have an idea when I love

32:50

your I hate my not. Why not

32:52

laugh? There's no good reason I think.

32:58

Sir A Drill Johnson is a pillow and

33:00

writer based in New York. They have a

33:02

new book last Night coming out later this

33:04

year as survey. Where can listeners find you.

33:06

And your work. I am on

33:08

line on Instagram act like department

33:11

see I'm on Twitter and Tic

33:13

tac as Surrey Drill. Alright

33:21

thoughts. Thanks for joining us for

33:23

another episode of the Hundred. Were

33:26

gearing up for another advice episode

33:28

and this time her covering your

33:30

poly questions send us to Outward

33:32

Podcast and sleep.com and Police And

33:34

as a bad habit ideas an

33:37

Outward Podcast at Sleep. Dot Com

33:39

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33:47

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33:49

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33:51

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33:54

Show was produced by me with

33:56

Health senior Supervising producer. The there's

33:58

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34:01

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34:03

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34:05

can head. To by everybody.

34:08

Stay again. When.

34:18

I say true crime. We all have

34:20

some piece of media that immediately comes

34:22

to mind. True crime is a phenomenon,

34:25

but what are the true crime stories

34:27

that no real say I'm said mess

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What is the true crime can at

34:32

times? Shayna Ross, a senior producer at

34:34

Slate and a true crime author. Over

34:36

the last few months I've been working

34:38

with Play Column is Laura Miller and

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Editor in chief Hillary Fry to put

34:43

together a list of five best pieces

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magazine. Articles and more. We dig

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into everything. Fans and casual observers

34:52

a like taken in the true

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crime genre. Go to sleep.com to

34:56

check out the true crime can

34:58

and today. We

35:03

need to talk about friendship. Say

35:06

I'm currently in it and I'm Karma

35:08

Wallace and we host to show from

35:10

Slay called how To Were Real People

35:12

bring us their problems and we find

35:14

the wisest people we know to give

35:16

them advice. This month. While everyone's

35:18

a bad about Valentine's Day and

35:20

romantic love, we're going against friendship

35:22

the attention it deserves. As right,

35:25

We love friendships and we're going

35:27

to help you find friends and

35:29

unexpected places, evolve your friendships and

35:31

recover from most terrible friend breakups.

35:34

Friendship is central to our joy are

35:36

resilient, even our health. So join us

35:39

as we talk of friends together. Search

35:42

for slates how to wherever you

35:44

listen.