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1:01

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1:41

What's up, Cliff? Nothing, man. Gonna podcast

1:43

a little bit. What about you? I just got off

1:45

the phone with a researcher. I don't want to be

1:47

a bigfoot tease, but he's got

1:50

pretty good footage. He said

1:52

it's comparable maybe to the Memorial Day

1:54

footage. It was taken on the iPhone at about 200 yards,

1:56

but he's got

1:57

three creatures

1:59

in. in the video at two different points.

2:02

Fantastic, let's hope that's true. I've

2:04

heard a lot of things like that before that didn't quite pan

2:06

out, but man, if this is true, it's good news. Oh,

2:09

for sure. But I saw those little

2:11

video clips you sent me, those hand, those probable

2:13

handprints you got.

2:15

Dude, it's been going crazy. I mean, when

2:17

we couldn't get you the other day for that episode,

2:20

I just did a 40 plus minute monologue

2:23

about all the stuff that's been happening at one of our research spots.

2:25

So our members got to hear about it. And of course, if you're

2:27

listening now and you're not a member and you want to be a member,

2:30

it's a good move. You can go to bigfootandbeyondpodcast.com

2:34

and click membership or hit the link in

2:36

our show notes and become a Patreon supporter of this

2:38

podcast and get an extra 45 minutes or

2:40

an hour of Cliff and Bob's

2:43

every single week.

2:44

Coming at, doing it to your ear holes as

2:46

Parliament Funkadelic used to say. You know,

2:48

we probably need to move on because we have a fantastic

2:51

guest from the other side of the planet on with us

2:53

today. Hell yeah, I've been waiting for this guy.

2:55

I mean, you know, it's funny because I feel like

2:57

I know him and I've never met him but I feel like I have, because

3:00

I've read his books and I've talked to people that know

3:02

him and I've listened to him on a

3:03

few other interviews and I've

3:06

been a big fan for a long time. So I'm excited for

3:08

this one.

3:09

Yeah, I have met it. I have met this gentleman

3:11

one time in 2009, I think it was. And

3:13

it was at the Bigfoot Roundup organized by Tom

3:16

Yammeron and you and Paul Graves, I believe,

3:18

as a tribute to Bob Gimlin out there in Yakima.

3:21

I sat down and had a wonderful conversation with this gentleman

3:23

and he has written several

3:25

books with a partner of his that we're gonna get on the podcast

3:27

at a later dates, but he has a new book

3:29

out called The Yowie File, Encounters

3:32

with Australian Ape Men. And

3:34

of course his first book was fantastic.

3:36

I think it's just called The Yowie, one of the best Bigfoot books

3:39

on, or Bigfoot Yowie, well, it's the best

3:41

Yowie book, period. But

3:43

one of the best cryptozoology, Harry Mann

3:46

sort of books available anywhere because he goes

3:48

to the history and the indigenous knowledge and contemporary

3:50

sightings. That's right, ladies and gentlemen, as if I

3:52

even need to say his name now because you all know it,

3:55

it is Paul Cropper. Paul, thank you very

3:57

much for coming to us from the other side of the planet and joining

3:59

us.

3:59

on Bigfoot and beyond.

4:01

Hey Paul. Hey, good day guys. Hey

4:04

Cliff. Hey Bubba. Thanks for joining us.

4:06

Yeah, I really appreciate it. And thanks

4:09

for being patient with our technical issues and all that sort

4:11

of stuff. We finally got it rolling and you're here with

4:13

us. So thank you. Hey, no problem. It's

4:16

great to be here. So your second book is,

4:18

well, your second Yowie book, I should say, because you've also

4:20

written some general cryptozoology books. But

4:23

your second Yowie book is now out. I

4:25

think that's probably a good lead. You sent

4:27

me an advanced copy and I really appreciate it. Thank you. And

4:30

I've been going through it.

4:31

And I'll tell you, people in this field

4:34

love citing reports. They

4:36

just absolutely love citing reports. For

4:39

a lot of people, it's the end game. That's what they're

4:41

trying to get as many citing reports as possible. And

4:43

this book is chock full of them.

4:46

Holy smokes. How many, how many citing

4:49

reports are contained in this book now?

4:51

I think probably around 300, something like

4:53

that. There's a lot.

4:56

Yeah. It's an extension on your first book.

4:58

Yeah, that's right. I mean, the first

5:01

book we did back in 2006, and I mean, in the

5:03

last couple of years, one of the really

5:05

big things, not just in Australia, but

5:07

I think we'll write, is that

5:09

a lot of newspaper archives have come online.

5:12

We have this fantastic resource in Australia called

5:14

Trove. And almost all

5:16

of the Australian newspapers from

5:19

the early 1800s up to about 19, the middle 60s,

5:24

late 60s are all online and

5:27

all available free. I

5:30

mean, for people like me and Tony, who

5:33

really had an interest in the

5:35

early reports, and in

5:38

our first book, we had a few, but not

5:40

very many. And the few that we had,

5:42

we dug out by hand, right? We go and sit

5:44

in a library and open the old, the

5:47

big hardbound copies, and you get all your

5:49

fingers covered in black ink.

5:52

And it would take a long time. But

5:56

with these new online archives,

5:58

it's fantastic. You just go in and... All you got to do

6:00

is plug in words like gorilla, sighting,

6:04

and just, I mean, dozens of cases

6:07

would come up. So it's been fantastic.

6:10

And those older cases are really, really interesting

6:12

because I think what

6:14

they prove and what the book proves is

6:17

that there's this consistent tradition

6:20

of these big hair covered,

6:22

ape-like kind of creatures in Australia right

6:25

from the beginning of European

6:27

colonization in late 1700s right

6:30

through to the current period. There isn't a gap. It's

6:32

this consistent thread of reports.

6:35

And I mean, also with the indigenous

6:37

stories, it's even

6:40

older than that.

6:41

You guys got 165 before 1900. I

6:44

mean, just in the 1800s, you got 165 in your book. That's

6:47

I love those old ones. So they're

6:49

just phenomenal. And it's interesting.

6:51

The first, like the first rule starting

6:54

in the book is about 1843. That's where

6:56

someone claims we saw this big seven

6:59

to eight foot tall, hair covered

7:01

creature and dogs, dogs,

7:04

it was basically kind of challenging some dogs.

7:07

That was in central New South Wales. But I

7:09

mean, it's exactly it's it's it's

7:12

exactly the same as the reports

7:16

you hear in the last couple of years. And it's

7:18

the I mean, it's almost identical to Sasquatch

7:20

reports, right? The older Sasquatch reports. So,

7:23

you know, one of the arguments when we when we first came

7:25

out with the Yowie was, oh, look, you know, the Yowie

7:27

is basically kind of feeds

7:30

off the Bigfoot mania of the 60s and early 70s. Right.

7:32

Because in Australia, I mean,

7:35

Australians hadn't heard of the Yowie until

7:38

Rex Buroy started talking about it in 75. They

7:40

thought, what the heck is this? But if you look at the

7:42

reports, you can see that quietly, maybe

7:44

not nationally, but these stories

7:47

and these reports are consistent right from the beginning.

7:49

It just it just the public wasn't

7:51

aware of it. I guess it's like the Bigfoot thing, right? It took the

7:54

Jerry Crew theme to kind of bring it into into

7:57

the cultural awareness stage, but

7:59

it was bubbling along. before just

8:01

kind of at the fringes of culture rather than in the middle

8:03

of it.

8:04

Well, unless of course you're an indigenous person in which

8:06

case, and sure it's still maybe not

8:08

the center of your life, but it is much more of a central

8:10

thing. Now, you are actually indigenous.

8:13

Yeah, my

8:16

father's side, my mother's English, my father's

8:18

Wolbanja and Wodi Wodi

8:20

from the south coast of New South Wales.

8:25

Do you feel that that has given you some unique access

8:27

into some of the indigenous insights by

8:29

hearing things that perhaps they wouldn't tell outsiders? Not

8:32

really, Cliff, because I didn't grow up in culture.

8:34

I was adopted at birth. So I only really

8:36

reconnected with my family in the last couple of years,

8:38

which has been fantastic.

8:41

And actually it sparked an interest in me to go back and

8:43

reexamine some of these indigenous

8:45

reports

8:47

because it's really interesting. Right. I

8:49

mean, in our first book, we talked about Aboriginal

8:52

reports of the hairy man. And

8:55

in the Yowie world, kind of saying the

8:58

hairy man reports are

9:00

the same thing as the Yowie right. That

9:02

was our conclusion, right? I

9:04

just, these days I kind of got a different view. I'm

9:07

not sure it is. Although

9:09

some indigenous people absolutely say it is,

9:11

but others, I mean, it's the same

9:14

thing with, I

9:16

guess, the traditional American

9:19

reports and there's that spiritual

9:21

element to it that doesn't exist in the European

9:23

stories. I guess my thing

9:25

is I'm not sure you can say that it's

9:29

necessarily the same thing because I think we've

9:31

just assumed that it is because we're looking through a

9:33

kind of European lens at it. But

9:35

I'd like to, I mean, to be honest, that might be my next project.

9:38

I need to go in and look nationally

9:40

at all of the indigenous

9:43

traditions around this. And there's lots, I mean, it's,

9:46

and, you know, and a lot of the indigenous

9:49

people that we're spoken to say,

9:51

you know, these things are here right now. And

9:53

we know about them, we encounter

9:55

them, we see them, we effectively

9:58

kind of have a relationship with them. So it's really important. interesting.

10:00

But yeah, I wonder

10:03

where investigation would lead down

10:05

that space, whether it is exactly the

10:07

same thing or whether it's something different. Maybe we just always

10:10

assumed it's the same. You

10:11

never know because there's all sorts of strange

10:14

happenings down in Australia. I mean, I was surprised

10:16

when I went down there on the Finding Bigfoot

10:18

episode to learn about the brown jacks, for example.

10:20

I mean, I'd read your book, but it didn't

10:22

quite register. I guess I didn't hold it.

10:25

It's just so interesting that there's two

10:28

distinct species of these things down there.

10:30

Indigenous people, they

10:32

have a really interesting perspective on it, but you

10:34

have to understand that in Australia, there's something like maybe 250

10:37

different cultural groups at the moment.

10:40

I mean, at the time of colonization, there might

10:42

have been something like 500 different cultural groups.

10:44

And different cultural groups have different stories and

10:47

sometimes different explanations for what it is. But

10:49

if you were going to look, I mean, and as

10:51

I said, it's always a bit dangerous

10:54

to generalize, but it seems

10:56

from the material we looked at that Indigenous people

10:58

say there's little ones, little

11:01

hairy people, and there's bigger ones, and

11:03

they're different. And the little ones

11:06

seem to be mischievous. It's

11:08

almost like, how

11:10

would you put it, like European elves. They

11:12

can be tricksters. They're sometimes

11:15

mean. Sometimes they kidnap

11:17

kids. And

11:20

in a lot of the cultural stories around them,

11:22

they punish bad behavior. So

11:24

often, parents

11:27

will say to their kids, don't go outside, you know, because

11:29

the little hairy people will get you. But

11:32

yeah, you're right. I think the brown

11:34

jacks was one description of the little

11:36

creatures, but there's lots and lots of different names.

11:39

And you know, with the discovery of Homo floresiensis

11:41

and now Homo luzonensis from the same island

11:44

chains just north there and Indonesia and the Philippines

11:46

and stuff, it gives a lot of credence to the possibility

11:49

that there are smaller varieties of unknown

11:51

hominoids, hairy hominoids, running around in

11:53

Australia because of

11:55

these recent paleoanthropological finds.

11:59

and even lose an Enzus.

12:04

There was a lot of discussion in the field

12:06

down here about the relationship between that and

12:09

particularly the stories about these

12:12

smaller creatures in indigenous tradition.

12:15

I mean, my thoughts on this are, and

12:17

this is after I guess being in the fields since about 1975 is, I

12:23

don't believe that these

12:26

things traditional

12:28

zoological creatures. And I think the evidence

12:31

for that is

12:33

that just in all of that period, there's

12:36

never been a creature

12:38

nailed by a four wheel drive or a

12:41

body found, they just seem

12:43

remarkably elusive. I'm

12:48

not kind of the, but I'm not of the school

12:50

that sort of indicates that

12:52

leads to anything paranormal. I think my view

12:54

is just that

12:57

people are having real experiences. I certainly believe

12:59

the witnesses and what they're describing. And

13:02

in many cases, there's pretty clear physical

13:04

evidence that something was there

13:06

in a physical, physically

13:09

where the witness described, doing what the witness

13:11

described. And of course we have multiple

13:14

witnesses as well. Lots of the stories, lots of

13:16

the cases in the book are multiple witness,

13:18

sometimes more than two and three people. But

13:22

I just think my view is kind of, I

13:24

think these experiences are real. I

13:27

don't really think that it's a physical creature

13:30

in the sense of kangaroo or a wallaby,

13:34

but I just think more evidence is required

13:36

as to exactly what all of this means. I think

13:39

Yowies are just part of the broad spectrum of weird

13:41

experiences that happen to human beings. Are

13:43

you lumping Brown Jacks and Yowies together on that?

13:45

When you say that Paul, they're both like that or

13:47

just the Brown Jacks?

13:49

I think all of these sightings. Tony's got

13:51

a different position on this and he can

13:54

talk about that. But I just think, yeah, as I said, I

13:56

think...

14:00

these experiences, these

14:02

sightings, are

14:04

just part of this broad spectrum of phenomena

14:06

that happens to people. And

14:10

weird experiences happen, we all know it, we

14:12

read about it in the press pretty regularly.

14:15

But my expectation would have

14:17

been, if this was a creature

14:19

in a full physical sense, we would

14:21

have found much clearer evidence by now.

14:24

And of course, this is Paul Cropper, and he mentioned Tony

14:26

earlier, I want to bring that up, Tony is Tony Healy,

14:29

Paul's co-author on this book and

14:31

his previous book, and we're talking about his new

14:33

book, The Yowie File. So

14:36

in many ways, this book is an expansion

14:39

on your first book, and kind of digging deeper

14:41

into some of the reports that were previously mentioned, and of course,

14:43

unearthing many, many, many new

14:46

ones. I want to talk about some of the ones that you

14:48

expanded on that were mentioned

14:50

in the first book, but you found more

14:52

information about For Your Second. Tell

14:55

us about some of those that you kind of rediscovered

14:57

or plumbed deeper depths of. Well,

14:59

just, it's been a long, it's

15:02

been a long gap since 2006. And I think for quite a

15:05

few of the cases, there was

15:08

just further documentation.

15:11

And as I was saying a little earlier, you know, a

15:13

lot of a lot of the early

15:16

European explorer reports,

15:18

a lot of indigenous

15:22

traditions, everything has started

15:24

appearing in some of those digital archives,

15:27

in particular in Australia, it's the same trove, which is just

15:29

this amazing online resource of

15:31

newspapers and journals and various

15:37

other sorts of documentation. And

15:39

that allowed us to sometimes go back and find

15:42

out, particularly on some of the older cases,

15:44

we found new sources of data

15:46

for a couple of the stories. And

15:48

I'm thinking that there's a story

15:50

from the late 1800s about a

15:52

Mr. Marron finding a kind

15:56

of the body of what he said was like

15:58

a

16:00

a hairy man.

16:03

We even, you know, we're able to locate photographs

16:05

of some of the participants. So it's interesting, you might

16:07

find a couple of a couple of the older

16:10

reports that were in the Yowie and

16:12

now in the Yowie

16:14

file, but we've managed to turn

16:17

up a photograph of the person that was involved. And that's pretty

16:19

amazing, given that some of these stories back in the 1800s. I think

16:21

there's a couple of those.

16:23

Yeah, yeah. And that's part of the corroboration of

16:25

these stories that that person was a real person

16:27

in real place, you know, real time. It

16:29

kind of goes a long ways instead of just making up somebody's name

16:32

and throwing it in a book, you know? Stay

16:34

tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond

16:36

with Clifton Bobo. We'll be right back after

16:39

these messages.

16:44

You know, anxiety and depression are real deals,

16:47

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16:59

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18:56

You guys mentioned the black cats. Do you think that's

18:59

paranormal? Like also anything that's a physical like

19:01

they're real large cats are you know,

19:03

biologically based or loose there? Yeah,

19:05

I think some of the cat stories are real large,

19:08

you know, really genuine large felines

19:11

loose in Australia Yeah, I believe that but

19:13

here's the strange thing like

19:15

it's really interesting You know when

19:18

I first started following up yaoi stories I was

19:20

asking witnesses the question of what

19:22

did you see? Where did you see it and

19:24

kind of keeping? Keeping the questions

19:27

pretty narrow But

19:29

as time went on I just started

19:31

introducing and Tony did as well started introducing

19:33

a few extra questions and things were asking people

19:36

and that was Have you ever

19:38

had? Any other strange

19:41

experiences? Have you ever seen any

19:43

other kind of a strange animal and people?

19:47

Really regularly would tell

19:49

us that they had either

19:52

had other strange experiences and

19:56

and in particular and this happened a lot

19:58

that they had also seen

20:02

these mystery cats as well. Now,

20:05

I know you can argue that that might mean that perhaps,

20:08

you know, these people in the country, perhaps they've got a great chance

20:10

of seeing other things, or perhaps,

20:13

you know, some people are more prone

20:15

to fantasy,

20:17

you might say, but I

20:20

just didn't get the sense of that.

20:22

And that I think also plays into the idea

20:26

that it's not just

20:29

an experience of a yowie,

20:32

you know, that something

20:34

else is at play here. You know, these people

20:36

are, it's part of this broader spectrum

20:38

of experiences that people are having. And

20:40

perhaps the people that see these things are more prone

20:43

to these experiences, I'm not sure. But

20:45

yeah, I mean, there are a lot

20:47

of reports from the people we talked to about particularly

20:50

seeing these kind of cat-like creatures. It

20:52

was very, it's

20:55

a sizable percentage of the people we talked

20:57

to that had other experiences.

21:00

Did you catch that news item this past week about

21:02

them getting DNA of Black Panthers

21:04

in the UK?

21:05

Yeah, actually there's been, there was

21:07

a case in Victoria where

21:10

DNA in Australia was

21:12

tracked back to a leopard.

21:14

But

21:16

there's questions around it because there could have been contamination

21:19

in the laboratory where the research was done because

21:22

they had other samples in that same laboratory. So

21:25

I saw that, yeah, I did see the UK stuff

21:28

for DNA, but I think I'd

21:30

probably wait to hear that that's verified

21:33

and that issues around contamination have sort

21:35

of been adequately addressed. And

21:37

also I think that report, it didn't come out from

21:40

independently, it came out from the people that were promoting

21:43

the documentary around big cats in UK. So,

21:46

I mean, it was interesting, very interesting. But

21:49

I'd kind of, you know,

21:52

I'd wait to see that for the documentary. The

21:55

interesting thing is if there were really

21:57

leopards,

21:59

if you tell,

21:59

it to the logical conclusion. If there were leopards in

22:02

Australia or leopards in the United

22:04

Kingdom, one would expect

22:06

that dogs would be disappearing left, right and

22:08

center because leopards are particularly partial to dogs. Occasionally

22:11

leopards attack people. So why hasn't that

22:13

happened

22:16

in either place? But interesting to

22:18

see where the evidence

22:20

leads. Well, yeah, certainly they're not indiginous

22:23

either of those places. But if one or two got loose

22:25

at some point, I could see a small

22:27

population of them living and you know what, the dog thing,

22:30

I get it, man. Sochi, my dog looks delicious.

22:32

Actually, the other thing with those big cats,

22:35

particularly black cats, if they're black leopards,

22:38

you know, the black, the

22:40

the, why haven't they flipped

22:42

back to their standard spot, right? Because

22:45

I think the black

22:47

gene is recessive. But if, if

22:49

they were breed, if it was, it was a breeding population,

22:51

you'd go back to spots. You

22:54

know, you go back to the to the normal rosettes, I should

22:56

say. So and you don't see that

22:58

either. So that was always a really weird thing about the

23:00

cats in Australia, too, is if people are actually

23:02

seeing black leopards, then why aren't

23:04

we seeing the what we you know, the

23:08

standard,

23:09

the standard marking phases

23:12

of leopards or and we're not seeing dog,

23:14

you know, these dog predation. So so

23:16

it's, it's, it's very, it's very odd.

23:19

Yeah, we'll see what comes to that was I wasn't aware of the source

23:21

behind that. I just saw the clipping or whatever.

23:24

We'll see if that's verified. Because at the end of the day, science

23:26

is about reproducing results, you

23:28

know, and so hopefully more people will look into

23:30

this and verify that because that's a pretty bold claim. But

23:33

I thought it was an interesting headline. And I'm not a black

23:35

cat kind of guy. You know, I saw one on accident,

23:37

but that's kind of the end of it. But

23:39

not really a black cat researcher. So I don't I

23:41

don't pay too much attention to all that sort of stuff. So I've

23:44

seen one and I was there and

23:47

I'm like, okay, that's, we know there's cats,

23:50

we know that they can be black sometimes.

23:52

But

23:53

yeah, I was gonna mention

23:55

Paul, did you notice that

23:57

descriptions like the right like the sketching?

24:00

done by eyewitnesses or maybe an artist

24:02

in the former themselves, how

24:04

the South American map and guari matches

24:07

really well with the yaoi like the

24:10

skinny legs in the pot belly like

24:12

seem like the Vietnam rocket. It's like

24:14

they're not built like a big buff Sasquatch.

24:17

Like they're more, you know, like not

24:20

thin waste. They're,

24:22

they're bulky and like they got the pot

24:24

belly, you know, and the skinny arms and legs. Have you

24:26

noticed that? I think you might be

24:28

referring to one of the, one of the,

24:30

particularly one of the sketches from like the early 1900s. Yeah,

24:34

look, I think the point fair, you know, when

24:36

people talk about yaois, they're probably talking

24:38

something five to seven foot, not

24:41

many are in the eight nine or, you know, the

24:43

kind of big hulking Sasquatch type

24:45

stuff. But in general, the description is,

24:47

you know, is really, really

24:49

similar because the witnesses describe, you know,

24:51

they talk about

24:53

lots of them, the majority, in fact,

24:55

what you talk about, it didn't have a neck, you

24:57

know, it just, its head sunk right into the shoulders, the head

24:59

was a bit smaller, it was really solid. It

25:02

was massively wide in the chest.

25:05

Mostly they're talking about, you know, pretty solid.

25:08

Sometimes I describe being like a well built rugby

25:10

player, you know, really big and big

25:12

and broad. So it's, it's pretty

25:14

much like a Sasquatch, but just

25:17

the sense I get from, you know, from the

25:20

American literature is they're bigger, and ours

25:22

are just a bit smaller, but, but

25:24

kind of otherwise really similar,

25:27

I think you could take a yaoi story, if you

25:29

took the location out and it would read almost

25:31

identically.

25:32

How dangerous do you think they are? Like you think

25:35

they're responsible for all these killings and other people

25:37

say they are? No,

25:38

no. If something

25:40

was killing people in the Australian voice, it'd be pretty

25:43

quickly, it'd be pretty quickly obvious.

25:46

I mean, there's the stories about people being abducted,

25:48

but you know, particularly in indigenous

25:50

law or children abducted, but

25:53

no, I think if that were actually happening,

25:55

it'd be pretty much front page

25:57

news and everyone would know there's not that many.

26:00

people down here, you know, people would

26:02

notice if they were disappearing.

26:05

And I mean, in some of the stories though,

26:07

and there's some in the book right where these things act

26:10

what seems to be aggressively, but it's kind of

26:12

like, you know, and this is in the

26:14

American stuff too, it seems like a blast, you know,

26:16

like a gorilla blast, like I

26:18

want to scare you away or I want you to go and leave

26:20

the space, I'll scare you. But

26:24

I do know that Dean Harrison, you

26:26

know, pretty much our best known field researcher

26:29

here and a good friend of mine, he

26:31

says he was kind of charged by one

26:33

and knocked over and he had, he was black

26:35

and black and blue. But again, it was

26:38

sort of like a more of a defense kind of

26:40

thing or a bluff thing that maybe went wrong and,

26:42

and they connected. But yeah,

26:45

he's, he's, he's got a photo of being

26:47

covered in bruises from head to toe, where

26:49

this thing bowled him over in the bush. That

26:51

was one of the questions I had when we went to go investigate

26:53

Australia on the show is like, because

26:56

for so many of the reports, talk about how these

26:58

things are super dangerous

27:00

and terrifying and cannibals and this all

27:02

scary, scary, scary stuff, you know, but

27:05

I mean, we were lucky enough to run into at least

27:07

one over there. I mean, I, I heard the

27:09

thing and I was clapping at it and it was clapping back

27:11

at me or doing whatever it was doing. But

27:13

near as I can tell, all I did, all I

27:15

observed was Sasquatch behavior,

27:17

you know, but it was I was on a different continent.

27:20

But it seemed to me that everything I

27:22

personally observed indicated, oh, there's a

27:25

Sasquatch there, except that was in Australia.

27:27

So I thought that was kind of nice. You

27:29

know, Cliff, behaviorally, it's exactly

27:31

the same. We have rock throwing. We have,

27:34

you know, those kind of stick structures. I'm not

27:36

saying the yaoi, but you know, it's the same,

27:39

the same kind of claims in the literature

27:41

and, and even, you know, occasionally things I've seen

27:44

in the bush. So those tucked over

27:46

tree structures,

27:48

a tree, you know, wood knocking, rock

27:52

stacks, rocks being thrown

27:54

at people, but not necessarily

27:56

at them, but close by. But, but

27:59

you were lucky having experience. I mean, I've thought I'm

28:02

not really a field guy. I'm kind of a, you

28:04

know, I'm kind of more of an armchair,

28:07

more of an armchair guy than in the field guy. But

28:09

I've been at the field quite a bit. And

28:11

the only time, only one time I haven't ever

28:13

had an experience that I think might be connected with you. I mean,

28:16

that was actually with Dean very early in the piece. And

28:18

I think that was like in the late 90s.

28:21

And I'd only just met Dean, right. And he

28:23

said, I'll come out, I'll take you to a place in the Blue

28:25

Mountain Zoo of New South Wales, is about an

28:28

hour outside of Sydney. I'll take you out where,

28:30

you know, I've had experiences. And I was

28:32

sort of like, okay, I was pretty skeptical.

28:36

We went out to a spot and this

28:38

was in a national park. He

28:40

said, just, just sort of be quiet and wait. And

28:45

so we kind of hunkered down in a spot,

28:48

night fell. And then

28:51

I distinctly remember that coming

28:53

up from the valley, because we were kind of on the top of

28:55

a, on the top of a valley that

28:58

was in front of us. I just heard what

29:00

sounded like a person.

29:02

I mean, we were pretty, we went a long

29:05

way to the national park, but you know, it sort of wasn't

29:07

anyone around. There was no light. And what

29:09

sounded like kind of to, sounded

29:12

like people walking in the bush sort of came up and

29:15

seemed to be aware that we were there and kind of circled

29:17

around us and then went back down to the bush again. So

29:20

I'm not

29:22

saying it was the alley, but it was kind of interesting and

29:24

certainly put the window me. But

29:28

beyond that, I've never had a, I've never

29:30

had an experience that

29:32

I would, I've never seen a Yowie and I've never

29:35

heard a Yowie. Yeah,

29:38

that was pretty much my, my only encounter. So

29:40

you were lucky coming out here and, but you go to the

29:42

right places with the right people and things tend to happen.

29:45

Yeah, this is a place of, I

29:47

think that the same was Ray, like who really looked into

29:49

things for a long time. Yeah, yeah.

29:52

He had a lot of stuff, I guess, at

29:54

this one particular location, which is why he brought

29:56

us there. And we just got lucky, I guess, you know, that's what it is with

29:58

Bigfoot for the most part. You can go to the right place.

29:59

the best spots, but doesn't mean they're going to be

30:02

there. I had some great experiences

30:04

down there. I was with the Slab family.

30:06

Oh, yeah, yeah. You went with them all. Fantastic.

30:09

Yeah. Yeah. I spent about 10 days

30:11

with those guys. And yeah, so before

30:13

we filmed Finding Bigfoot, I went down there a couple weeks early

30:15

because

30:16

the episode was falling apart. And

30:19

I met this guy in Hawaii

30:21

and he said, oh yeah, I live where

30:23

there's Yowies and Chingerese.

30:26

Is that right? Chingerese, right? Chingerese,

30:28

yeah. Yeah. And so

30:30

I was down in the Blue Mountains. I said, man,

30:33

I know this guy up north. So I talked

30:35

to the network and I flew up there, you know, it's

30:38

whatever, like a nine hour, 10 hour car drive up

30:40

there. And I caught a plane

30:42

up there. And they were nice enough

30:45

to take me around.

30:46

And they took me up to one of those

30:48

national parks east of there.

30:51

And we went and they had

30:53

an encounter. I don't know if you might have talked to them about

30:55

this, but they got attacked by they said a bunch

30:57

of Chingerese that were

30:59

swooping down and like

31:01

jumping down and like swinging on vines and swinging on

31:03

branches. And they'd come down and they actually snapped

31:05

a pair of sunglasses off one of

31:08

the guys heads.

31:09

Well, I hadn't heard that story, but but

31:11

Carl's lab and and his family

31:14

and his experiences there are really, really

31:16

interesting because he's on single

31:18

peninsula. So that's pretty close to

31:20

the border. It's a little peninsula. And

31:23

it's almost right on the border of New South Wales and Queensland.

31:26

And he's part of his family's part

31:28

of an indigenous community that's that's lived

31:30

on that little peninsula, which is only about 10 k's

31:32

long and about I think it's less than a k wide

31:35

and about 10 k's long. And he got in

31:37

touch with us and we did just before we did the our book

31:39

and was talking to us about it. So

31:41

his family say that on

31:43

that peninsula, there was a hairy man that

31:46

lived there that had a relationship with the cultural

31:48

group there. And in fact, it lived on

31:50

a cave. And when that when his

31:53

family and when their cultural group because

31:55

the cultural group would stay down in

31:57

winter, they'd stay down on the beach

32:00

area and in summer they go up into

32:02

the mountains and he said the hairy man would actually mind

32:04

the the the this cultural groups all

32:07

of their things in the cave so they had this kind of

32:09

relationship but it

32:11

it wasn't

32:12

when he was talking to me too he said only

32:14

a few when he was when he was quite young at school

32:17

he'd seen this hairy man sitting

32:19

by the road and walked up to it and

32:21

in fact in the in the yaoi there's a sketch

32:23

that he did so he said you know this wasn't

32:26

just some kind of loose cultural

32:28

tradition he said this thing was known

32:30

it would actually be in the bush but it's such

32:32

a small peninsula you know it was like hard to imagine

32:34

but he was saying it was it was effectively

32:37

still there you know in in this

32:39

tiny place

32:41

they said they saw it when we were there

32:43

we went and filmed them when we were there and i

32:45

got there ahead of time so i got to spend a lot of time with them and they

32:47

took me up to the river where they'd had that incident

32:50

with the gingerees up there

32:52

and uh we were walking up there like they

32:54

were getting there they were they're really afraid of

32:56

those things and we were going up there was

32:58

a gum tree that was snapped i think

33:00

it was about a seven inch you know diameter

33:03

you know fresh we heard it snap

33:05

crack and then come down in the river

33:07

because we had to walk up the river did you

33:10

say you went to that spot with those guys or not

33:13

i haven't caught up with um

33:15

with with call and the slab family for

33:17

quite a quite a long time so we're only

33:19

we're only kind of connected when we talked about that initial

33:21

stuff so that's really interesting i'd always wanted

33:23

to go back go back up to single but just

33:26

across so that little peninsula that they live on

33:28

that his family lives on um finger

33:31

fingerhead just across

33:33

the river on the kind of on the mainland side

33:35

less than two kilometers away independently

33:38

of that um

33:39

uh

33:40

paul kronk an environmental

33:42

scientist wrote to tony and i and said

33:45

hey back in 1977 when

33:47

i was really young i grew up just opposite

33:49

fingle and me and

33:51

this friend um we're

33:53

kind of playing in this gully and we saw this tree

33:55

shaking kind of thinking what the heck is

33:58

that and then they saw this

34:00

yaoi kind of walked down a gully

34:03

into the bushes, like the stories in the

34:05

stories in our book, the yaoi. But

34:08

I thought, wow, that's amazing. So his

34:10

report was only like two

34:13

kilometers across this fairly shallow

34:15

kind of inlet across to the across

34:17

the single where the,

34:20

you know, Carl and his family was saying

34:22

they'd been a hairy man seen there for years. I thought that was like

34:24

really interesting. I mean, there was a long distance, a

34:27

long time between the sightings, but I thought just this

34:29

very small, small geographical

34:31

area.

34:32

They said they saw when we were there, we let them

34:34

use the you were there clip from I gave them the thermal image

34:37

and they walked out and they came running, tripping

34:39

over themselves running back into the house scared.

34:42

They said they saw a ginger e

34:45

on the thermal image or

34:46

like just a hundred, hundred meters

34:48

from their house. Yeah, I can verify

34:51

they said that. Yeah, they took off with a flier

34:53

and they were they're tripping out going, what is this? Like,

34:55

oh my God, passing it back and forth with each other. They,

34:58

they disappeared off into the brush and amongst

35:00

the sand dunes there. And then not

35:02

five, eight minutes later, they came running

35:04

back with the fear of God put in them by something

35:07

that they saw out there. So who knows what it went on

35:09

about there. But yeah, yeah, they definitely

35:11

said that they saw one of these things while we were there.

35:14

And of course I immediately went over there and

35:16

looked around and there were there were footprints

35:18

in the dune and stuff. But I mean, I, which ones were

35:20

human, which ones were not, who knows? Cause

35:22

no, no, no, no, no family wore shoes.

35:24

Yeah.

35:25

All right. Yeah. Now I haven't seen Carl Phalom,

35:27

but I'd love to get back up to there because I think it'd be

35:29

a really interesting area to kind of look into

35:31

a little further back in

35:33

the early seventies, like this, the

35:36

kind of middle to late seventies, there was a lot of

35:38

Yaoi stories from the Gold Coast, Northern

35:41

New South Wales, just a ton. And some of them were fantastic.

35:43

And probably the best ever, I think the

35:45

best Yaoi sighting ever is the one by the

35:48

Australian Senator Bill Ochi and

35:51

a group of, a group

35:53

of students from Southport school that

35:55

are in up in Springbrook

35:59

on a holiday camp. and who all

36:01

watched this yaoi on the side

36:03

of a hill kind of stomping around and Like,

36:06

you know really bill when he was an

36:08

Australian senator still a serving senator

36:11

was wanting to come out and say yeah I it

36:13

happened when I was a kid. I'm gonna stand by the story. I mean

36:15

to me that's like

36:17

You

36:18

know that that's and and we talked to another

36:21

Student that I was at the school who's still

36:23

teaching at the school still a tutor at the school. He

36:25

said yeah, Bill's right I saw it. We all saw

36:28

it. That's just the way that it is. So

36:30

I thought yeah, that's a that's an excellent

36:32

report Imagine how much bill had to

36:34

lose by standing up and saying I saw a yaoi

36:37

when I was kid in the Australian parliament

36:39

Yeah in Springbrook is what 1015 miles,

36:42

you know, or you know, 2020 30 kilometers

36:45

directly to the west of Finglehead, right? Yeah,

36:48

yeah, it's not that it's a little

36:50

Yeah, it's not it's not far at all So there was

36:52

this big cluster of reports when

36:55

Paul's had his experience that I was talking about it

36:57

was 77 and that was basically

37:00

the same year as below cheese starting in quite

37:02

a few others around the Gold Coast at the time and You

37:05

know the theory is that

37:08

in the late 70s There

37:10

was a lot of development on the coast, right? So

37:12

all of these stories were happening kind of just in

37:14

the fringe where where suburbia

37:16

was starting to push into some of these Into some of

37:18

these more wilder places and Springbrook is a wild

37:21

place. It's pretty heavy bush and solids

37:23

Oh,

37:24

correct me if I'm wrong Paul, but isn't spring book where

37:26

that excellent footprint cast comes

37:28

from?

37:29

Yes, that's right Yeah

37:30

I've now Tony shared a cup like

37:33

three different footprint casts with Bobo and I when

37:35

we accidentally stumbled across him Way

37:37

up Bluff Creek oddly enough out of the blue So

37:40

it's there's a whole story into itself But of

37:43

the three that I saw the only one that I would even consider

37:45

real is the Springbrook one Because

37:47

it's the only one that even kind of

37:49

looks like the stuff here from the from North America

37:53

It's a very impressive footprint cast.

37:55

Yeah, there just isn't much footprint evidence here.

37:57

I think I think Part

38:00

of it is just the nature of our countryside,

38:02

right? It's really dry. We

38:05

don't have the same kind of fine-grained

38:08

dirt that you get in the Pacific Northwest, you know,

38:10

that kind of fine dust that preserves

38:12

footprints.

38:16

And yeah, the casts

38:18

and the photographs that we've got,

38:20

they're just not consistent at all. So that's a

38:23

bit of a mystery into itself. So yeah, there might be some

38:25

reasons why that just people aren't attuned

38:27

to it, like they had a Bigfoot, looking

38:30

for those things. The ground might not hold

38:32

prints as well. I

38:35

did find some tracks after a... I've

38:38

got two track stories. One was the

38:41

tracks that I found up in Kempe,

38:45

after a report by two boys.

38:48

That's in the Yowie as well. But

38:51

again, they were quite small, very deep,

38:54

very deep, but not a lot of detail.

38:58

And then only

39:00

not that long ago, I found another set of... I

39:02

got called up by someone that has found these kind of human-like

39:05

footprints on the edge of some

39:08

highway work being done up in... Same

39:10

sort of general area, Kempe in New South Wales. But

39:14

I took a lot of photos. I think I sent them to you,

39:16

Cliff, as well as Dr. Meldrum. And he said,

39:18

that's a big

39:21

person. That's a human foot. There's nothing

39:23

particularly. Stay tuned

39:25

for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff

39:27

and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages.

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40:36

Nate. By day he works in IT,

40:39

but when he gets on the bike he becomes Nature

40:42

Nate. An outdoorsy

40:45

type with his head in the clouds and a weak supply

40:47

of trail mix in his cargo pants. Nature

40:49

Nate leaves no trace, except for native

40:52

wildflowers. If a tree falls in

40:54

the forest, he'll help it get back up. And

40:57

Nature Nate rides with Geico, because getting

40:59

specialty coverage for his motorcycle is

41:01

the natural choice. Geico Motorcycle,

41:03

expert coverage for both your sides.

41:06

When we were down there, one

41:08

of the confounding things for me is

41:10

that the indigenous people there just don't wear

41:12

shoes, unless they're going into town. They just

41:15

don't wear shoes. So when you're out in the woods, I

41:17

did find barefoot human footprints

41:19

in very unlikely places, but were

41:22

they brownjacks? Were they yaoi's? Were they

41:24

human? They looked human to me. They're

41:27

about human size, but I don't know anything

41:29

about brownjack prints or gingery prints. I

41:31

don't know anything. I don't know the first thing about them. I would

41:33

assume that they would have a flat footedness

41:35

and a midfoot flexibility

41:36

and all that jazz, in which case it would

41:38

mean that those were human prints that I saw. But man, they're in

41:40

weird places in the ground.

41:42

Very strange places. But

41:44

the indigenous people there, they don't wear

41:47

shoes ever in the woods. So I

41:49

don't know. I found it very frustrating in that sort of

41:51

way.

41:51

Working with Dean and his

41:54

yaoi hunters team, they get lots of

41:56

reports and lots of people send print

41:58

photos, but often they'll just send... And you

42:01

can't see the context, you don't see the size,

42:03

so it's very difficult to make a call. And

42:06

again, you don't have kind of, we don't have like a reference

42:08

print. We don't have the reference print

42:10

of what a yaoi's

42:13

foot looks like. So yeah, it's the, I

42:15

think we mentioned that in both books, right? That just the

42:18

track stuff is pretty inconsistent

42:21

and there's not much you can point to to

42:23

say, well, we really, you

42:24

know, we think this is a yaoi print. It

42:27

just doesn't exist. Yeah, well, that Springbrook

42:29

one is actually very interesting. I'm very

42:31

impressed by that one. To me, that's the best

42:33

physical evidence that I've seen out of Australia. Although

42:37

the thermal stuff was really good too, like last

42:39

year or year before, that was great too. Oh, that's the best,

42:41

best thermal footage ever. I love that.

42:44

I mean, I have no doubt, no doubt at

42:46

all that shows two big yaoi's.

42:48

Yeah, it's pretty good, isn't it? I mean,

42:51

we included in the book because we thought, yeah, that

42:53

is, that's quite, you

42:54

know, that's, we were

42:57

impressed. We were impressed by that. So

42:59

yeah, and we know the guys, all of the guys involved

43:02

and they're all solid. It's difficult

43:05

to explain, even if you were

43:07

pitched that these guys were hoaxed, the

43:10

size, you know, the reference,

43:13

having the human people stand in the location

43:15

and, you know, the comparison

43:18

shots just so, no, this was something significantly

43:20

bigger than a person, way bigger. Yeah,

43:23

it's really interesting. So yeah, we've got a chap, we've

43:25

got kind of quite a few

43:27

pages on that in the back of the yaoi file.

43:30

So you said that someone

43:32

in the parliament actually has had seen a Sasquatch,

43:36

or not a sallygawi rather, how

43:38

often do you run into law enforcement

43:40

or people who work for other federal agencies

43:43

encountering one of these things or finding evidence of one?

43:45

I know, and actually quite

43:47

friendly with an officer

43:50

who, a police officer in Queensland

43:53

who's had

43:55

an experience in quietly investigating in his

43:57

spare time. Yari reports. He's

44:00

had his own experience and great guy,

44:02

very solid, just doesn't quietly though, not

44:05

as part of his official duties. Beyond

44:07

that, I'm not really aware of any

44:10

kind of police officers

44:12

who are kind of claiming that they've

44:14

had yower experiences. I don't think we have

44:17

any in the book. So

44:19

I haven't come across

44:22

anyone apart from him. And this police

44:24

officer, is he keeping his own files and documenting

44:26

like a proper police investigation?

44:28

No, this is all stuff that he's done in his

44:30

spare time with other researchers as

44:33

an individual and outside of his official police

44:35

duties. Oh, yeah, but with

44:38

the sensibilities of a cop?

44:39

Yes. So

44:42

I've seen, yeah,

44:43

I've seen police doing reports where

44:45

a yower has been reported

44:47

to them. But

44:50

no, I haven't heard of any others outside of him. But

44:52

yeah, he's really impressive. Really impressive. Do you know

44:54

anyone that's got good hair samples down there? I've

44:58

seen a few bouncing around. And

45:00

I think Dean Harrison sent

45:02

some across for analysis, but

45:04

I've never seen anything really

45:06

definitive come out of it.

45:09

No, this is a little off topic, Paul. How

45:11

many people have you talked to that said they've seen a thylacine?

45:14

Oh, a lot. A

45:16

lot. Like maybe 50

45:18

or 60. But

45:21

I kind of I kind

45:23

of stopped. You know,

45:25

when we get out of the shadows, my interest wide,

45:28

I was looking at big cat stories and thylacine

45:30

stories. But then I think, you know, I kind

45:32

of got zeroed in on the yowie and a lot of that other stuff

45:35

and the files on that I kind of put to one side.

45:38

All of my all of my big cat files,

45:40

all of my thylacine files,

45:43

all of my other my bun your

45:45

files and everything with the state library in

45:48

New South Wales. You got bun your reports?

45:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Still not

45:53

as many. I mean, not as

45:55

many, but

45:57

we still keep we still we're getting

45:59

some. But,

46:01

you know, the rivers today are pretty much

46:04

way different to what they were like in the

46:07

late 1800s and 1900s when all

46:09

of those reports were, you know, were happening.

46:12

I think in Out of the Shadows we said a lot of them might have been

46:14

seal reports because occasionally seals

46:17

would have made their way up into our

46:19

river systems as far as 2,000 kilometres

46:23

upstream from

46:25

the sea. So we think a lot of the Bunya reports

46:28

were, you know, potentially seals. And now that there's so many

46:30

dams on those rivers, seals can't make

46:32

it up as far as they used to.

46:34

Was there a concentrated spot where you,

46:37

was there like one general area that thought us in reports

46:39

were the most common? There was a couple

46:41

of spots where they were very common. One was in the south

46:44

west of WA.

46:46

There were quite a few in central

46:48

Victoria. They were

46:50

pretty much, there was a lot on the mainland

46:52

of Australia. And to be honest, Bobo, I

46:55

think almost all of the mainland

46:58

reports, if not all of the mainland reports were

47:00

misidentifications, probably

47:03

foxes with mange. Because when foxes

47:05

get mange, they can get

47:07

this striped appearance. And it's really,

47:10

really looks like a xylosine from

47:12

a distance.

47:13

And if you see it quickly. Is that xylosine

47:15

picture? You know that one, the xylosine picture of the,

47:18

people say it's a stuffed one on a trail

47:20

and like it's like going up like the tail

47:23

sticking up. What do you think of that?

47:24

Oh, it just looked really artificial to me. Not

47:26

convinced, not convinced. That's what I thought. Yeah,

47:29

just didn't know. I

47:31

think there are a few reasons to kind of be really

47:34

doubtful about it. And you only see a part of the back of the

47:36

tail, right? That's it. So yeah,

47:39

I don't think it really convinced anyone. So

47:41

I think there's a low possibility

47:44

of xylosine still exist in Tasmania. Low

47:46

but you know, fingers crossed. But

47:48

I think

47:49

there's a

47:50

zero possibility of the xylosine still

47:52

being alive on the mainland.

47:54

Do you get Yowie or you

47:56

know, Harry hominoid reports of any type from

48:00

the islands across, you know, Tasmania and

48:02

like even New Zealand, for example.

48:04

Okay, in Tasmania,

48:07

there's a couple of reports,

48:09

maybe five or six. So

48:11

not a lot, but there's a few.

48:14

None of them are,

48:17

you know, top tier reports. None.

48:20

They're little kind of

48:22

secondary kind of things. The

48:26

New Zealand stuff, I know that there's

48:29

a cultural tradition amongst the Maori of wild

48:32

people in New Zealand, but

48:34

as far as the modern reports,

48:37

I haven't seen anything to make me think that's

48:40

legitimate at all.

48:41

And in fact,

48:43

when I started looking into it, it did seem

48:45

like a lot of the original reports

48:47

of the Coromandel Hairy Man came out

48:49

of one person who was like a media, like

48:52

a, who was a

48:55

reporter just really trying to kind of

48:57

gee up a story out of nothing.

49:02

So I have never spoken

49:04

to a firsthand witness to

49:06

the New Zealand stories. As

49:08

far as I can see, there's no traditional

49:11

historical tradition. I mean,

49:13

apart from them, there's the Maori traditions, but there isn't

49:16

anything like in the contemporary newspaper

49:18

reports, you know, that like in the

49:20

Yawifile where we got all those stories from the late

49:22

1700s right through to early 1900s, you know, year

49:27

after year, century after century in

49:29

New Zealand, they have their old newspaper reports

49:33

online as well, nothing. So

49:35

there's no consistent European

49:37

tradition before the modern day until

49:39

the stories pop up in, I think

49:42

it was probably the 50s or 60s,

49:44

a couple of newspaper reports. And

49:48

all of them came out of the same person at

49:50

that time.

49:51

I'm so disappointed. I was so blown

49:53

out to find out that Maori Hao wasn't true because I've

49:55

always wanted to go to New Zealand. I'm like, this is perfect combined

49:58

squashing with going to New

49:59

New Zealand, looking into it more, I was

50:02

kind of crushing to find out they're probably not there.

50:05

Well, go to New Zealand, it's a fantastic place and

50:07

well worth the visit. But if you're searching for squats,

50:10

I wouldn't be doing it in New Zealand. But yeah, it's

50:13

very suspicious.

50:16

Very suspicious. Well, so yeah,

50:18

but there is a culture tradition,

50:20

it's really clear. But there's

50:23

nothing between colonization and the

50:25

1950s and 1960s. Then

50:32

there's some secondhand reports, nothing

50:34

firsthand. And then since then,

50:37

occasional stories pop up. But

50:39

again, there's never a single witness who's quoted.

50:42

There's nobody you can talk to. And if

50:44

there was somebody you could talk to, I probably would have talked

50:46

to them in the past 30 years. But

50:49

there's never been anyone. Well, it seems that

50:51

most of the reports, and correct me if I'm wrong, but by

50:54

reading your first book and leaving through these other ones, most of the

50:56

reports are East Coast reports.

50:59

Generally, South Queensland and

51:01

New South Wales, a little bit of Victoria, right? Is

51:03

that because that's where you guys live? Or is there

51:05

a bunch of stuff down in Western Australia

51:07

by Perth or something? And

51:10

they generally go unreported? Or what

51:13

do you think is going on? Well, the

51:15

majority of reports are in the

51:17

majority of reports are where the majority of people are,

51:19

to be honest. So that's on the East Coast,

51:21

Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria. But

51:24

there's still a lot of really

51:26

good reports in South Australia, in

51:29

the southwest of WA, and

51:31

even in northern Western

51:33

Australia and in the Northern Territory,

51:36

and

51:37

some in central Australia. But I

51:40

think the reports reflect where people are to see them.

51:43

So I don't necessarily know that it

51:45

means that's the only places that Yowies

51:48

are. But

51:50

it's

51:52

where the most people are, where people are travelling and where they're

51:54

driving and so forth. There's not so

51:56

many reports from central Australia, although there

51:58

are Indigenous traditions. Central Australia,

52:01

and there are some reports that are pretty

52:03

good from Central Australia. So

52:06

it could be that there's encounters,

52:09

we just don't hear about

52:12

them, or yeah,

52:15

you obviously only get the reports where there's

52:18

people who see them. Sure. And I don't know,

52:20

have you done... John Green in the 1970s, of course,

52:23

discovered a strong correlation between rainfall

52:25

and Sasquatch sightings. Have you found

52:28

similar patterns here? Because Central Australia,

52:30

correct me if I'm wrong, I've never been there, but seems

52:32

dry as a bone for the most part, unless

52:34

you're around some springs or something. But as far as rainfall

52:36

and whatnot, it's going to be mostly coastal

52:39

stuff, I imagine. Is there a correlation

52:41

there as well?

52:42

Yeah, but people are

52:45

where the climate's the nicest, and that's where the more...

52:48

where the rainfall is. So yeah, there is a connection.

52:50

But again, it's like the people are where the...

52:53

Central Australia is incredibly dry. So people

52:55

tend to settle here where the climate's a bit

52:57

more moderate, which is around... generally

52:59

around the coastal fringes. And that's where most

53:01

of the reports are. But that could be a reflection

53:04

of, as I said, people, not necessarily

53:06

the hours. Yeah, it comes down to a people factor.

53:08

Just like I know here in North America, sighting

53:11

reports drop off pretty dramatically

53:12

in the wintertime. And that's probably a people

53:14

factor too.

53:15

It was actually... it was kind of through

53:17

John Green that I met Tony, because

53:20

I started corresponding with John in

53:22

probably about 1976, 77. And then I met him twice, traveling to Canada.

53:29

And one time he took me over to meet Bob Titmus.

53:31

I met him as well, I had a chat with him.

53:33

Oh, you're lucky. Never met the guy.

53:35

Yeah, yeah, he was an interesting guy. And yeah, we

53:38

had a long chat about Bigfoot. So when

53:40

I got interested, I started kind of traveling around a bit

53:43

trying to meet, you know, different people in the field

53:45

and met Renee DeHinde as well, at

53:47

the Vancouver Gun Club and had some Australian

53:49

beers with him and talked Bigfoot. So

53:52

yeah, it's kind of interesting meeting different people in

53:54

the field. Oh, lucky

53:55

you, lucky you. And then met either one of those guys.

53:57

And I would have loved to met either let alone both. smokes.

54:01

Those two and Roger Patterson, those are the two I want.

54:03

Those three, Roger Patterson, Renee

54:05

and Tit, those are the three I wish I

54:07

could have met.

54:08

You definitely need to talk to Tony because he actually

54:11

spent more time with Renee. I think

54:14

he was kind of part of his crowd for a while

54:16

because he worked in Canada and

54:19

spent a long time traveling around. So yeah, definitely he's

54:21

got lots of Renee to Hinden stories

54:24

and he actually went to the

54:26

conference in, you know, the first kind

54:28

of Sasquatch conference, I think in British Columbia. Oh, 77.

54:32

Yeah, yeah, that big one. So he was there when all

54:34

of that was happening. So he'll have some great stories to tell.

54:36

Well, we'll definitely get Tony on at some future point.

54:39

But you know, why don't we close up the regular episode

54:42

here? And maybe if you can stick around for our members episode, I'd

54:44

like to ask you about some of the specific and

54:46

more impressive yaoi encounters that

54:48

you've documented and your thoughts on them.

54:50

Yeah, sure. Why

54:51

don't we get into that with the members in just a few minutes

54:53

here? So if you can hang on for a second, Paul,

54:55

thank you very much for joining us on a regular episode of

54:58

Bigfoot and Beyond. And now we're going to go to Beyond

55:00

Bigfoot and Beyond for our members. Thank

55:02

you for our members and everybody else who listens to this. We really

55:04

do appreciate it. And then thank you very

55:06

much to Paul Cropper who joined us today on Bigfoot

55:08

and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

55:10

Yeah, thanks, Paul. Yeah, we're gonna have links

55:12

to the book and the show notes down below.

55:15

Check it out. It's a great book.

55:16

It's got all the history

55:18

of the yaoi down in Australia from the beginning till

55:21

now. It's awesome. I can't recommend

55:23

it enough. Thank you, Paul. Thanks

55:26

guys. Great to chat.

55:27

Yeah, and thanks for listening to Bigfoot

55:29

and Beyond everyone. And until next week,

55:31

y'all keep it Squatchy.

55:38

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of

55:40

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55:42

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Nate. An outdoorsy

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Nate leaves no trace except for native

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