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1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:18,000 [Music] 2 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:23,840 All right, welcome to Black Girl From Eugene. This is Ayisha Elliott. 3 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:32,800 I am simul-casting on KEPW 97.3 local radio station. Shout out, shout out. Today is, oh shoot, 4 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:39,680 what is today? Sunday, the 30th, May 30th, right? Okay, oh my gosh, I'm right, y'all. May 30th, 5 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,840 I literally on Saturday was wondering why someone hadn't delivered something and people were like, 6 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:49,600 it's Saturday and I was like, it's Saturday? It literally was a whole brand new, I had, I thought 7 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:55,680 Thursday, that's how many days off I was. That's what happens when you're on vacation, or you're in, 8 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,000 I mean, don't even be on vacation when you're in Hawaii, just lose track of time. You just lose 9 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,840 track of time. So welcome to my show, everyone, this is live one, Facebook, I am recording audio 10 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:15,360 and I have my wonderful, special esteemed guest with me, Ian Waller. And I want to say right now, 11 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:20,640 I want to say what we're going to do immediately because people have been giving me this like, you know, 12 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:26,880 a lot of pointers about how I should introduce my show, which I appreciate, but the ones I really 13 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:33,200 appreciate is that I should probably say what I'm doing at the beginning, which I think makes a 14 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:38,320 lot of sense. So I'm just going to go ahead and go with that. And what we are going to do is introduce 15 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:43,680 your podcast yet again, because you have been on my podcast before, but I want to bring back my, 16 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:49,760 my special guests and you're one of them and your podcast, The Power of Ideas is so well done and 17 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:54,800 is so informative and is so like, I don't know how to say it's, it's much more like put together 18 00:01:54,800 --> 00:02:00,400 than my podcast is. And so I want to give you a shout out. You said it. You said it. I did. And I 19 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:09,440 recorded it. What was I thinking? So introducing the podcast, The Power of Ideas, you Ian Waller, 20 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:15,120 also known as Kubikai. I know you don't want to you, but there it is. Is there okay? And after Guru, 21 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:21,360 are we going there? The Wu-Wu-Wu-Guru? We're going to reveal the nicknames. You remember what 22 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:29,520 yours was? Wait, wait. Universe Juice. Universe Juice. Why? But after David Universe Juice. I'm 23 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,920 the, yeah, I'm the Wu-Wu-Wu-Guru. Yeah, you're the Universe Juice. That's right. That's the best thing 24 00:02:33,920 --> 00:02:40,800 for ever now. I think it's amazing. I'm thinking of the bad too. Yeah, the started group. 25 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:46,800 Now, it also, also known as my little brother. All right. So that's, I think, excuse me, 26 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:54,880 important title for me. Anyway, Power of Ideas, before we do get started though, I want to give 27 00:02:54,880 --> 00:03:01,120 us shout out to the fact that tomorrow is Memorial Day. And if I would have thought this out 28 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:07,200 a little bit further, we probably would have been talking about that. But I think it's important 29 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,760 to say though that the inception of Memorial Day, because you know, we're talking about 30 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:16,160 blackness on my show and just like living in the world and being who we are. And I think it's 31 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,720 important, and I don't know that a lot of people know that the inception of Memorial Day was actually 32 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:29,440 a slave. Do you know this about in 1865? You don't know. Okay. So in 1865, Memorial Day, we started 33 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:37,840 by former slaves on May 1st in Charleston, South Carolina. So there was like 260 dead soldiers 34 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:44,880 from the war and Union soldiers who were like buried like in a mass grave. They're just kind 35 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:50,400 of like thrown out there and kind of buried. So, and they were buried. These Union soldiers were buried 36 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:57,200 in a Confederate prison camp, like just like mass grave, Union soldiers in a, anyway, these former 37 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:05,120 slaves went and dug up these bodies, right? And it took them two weeks to actually give them a 38 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:12,960 proper burial ceremony. And they did it in, so they, they undug all these bodies and it took them 39 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,760 two weeks to do it. And they gave them all proper burial, a proper burial as gratitude for their 40 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:26,320 freedom. And it was like conceptualized in this, this march of like 10,000 people and 2,500 41 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:31,680 children actually led the march. And they sang and they celebrated for like a couple days. And it 42 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:36,640 was, that was like the first Memorial Day. And since then, they celebrated it since then. So, yeah, 43 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:42,480 so people don't actually understand that this was actually super appropriated, but this was like 44 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,640 actually like, I mean, that was the thought that I was having. And then, and then, and then who took it 45 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,440 over and made it some completely different. And now it is that because of why, you know? And now, 46 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:56,560 and Black folks don't even know that this is something we get again, that this is our, this is our 47 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:01,520 ish. We did this. It's another ceremony that we have, we have celebrated and created and given. 48 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,040 So I just wanted to get that quick shout out. I know we could have like a super long conversation 49 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,920 about appropriation. And I, and I should like technically start doing that kind of stuff, talk 50 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:16,560 about appropriation more, but appropriation like it just pisses me off. And it's, and it's so, 51 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:25,440 I don't know, like when I think about it, like it's just, it's so, just, to me, it's very cut and 52 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:33,840 clear, but then you start to get into all this really like privileged conversation that requires 53 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:38,640 way too much tact for me. You know what I'm saying? Like it requires a lot of tact. Because I just want 54 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,640 to smack the fold up side the head and just be like, what are you talking about right now? Like, 55 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:48,560 this is that again. You know, that's interesting. Like for, for me, you know, like the work that I do is 56 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:54,080 the sociologist is like, I really have started to dig into the history of, you know, things that we 57 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,920 think that we take for granted now, like right? So, you know, we'll probably talk about the fact that 58 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,600 like what I study is astrology is a social phenomenon. And then I looked at like what are the 59 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:06,160 historical roots of perceptions about astrology right now? And it's always like the, it's like 60 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:12,720 wild and revelatory to like discover where they, where they started and like the narrative that's 61 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:19,840 been told about them now, right? And it can make you insane to like find out things and be like 62 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:24,240 and find out that the story you're being told is actually a complete fiction. I mean sometimes it's 63 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:30,000 not a complete fiction, but it's like, like, so like, are we being lied to about one more day now? No, 64 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:35,440 we're just not acknowledging the thing that you just said, right? And that is, that's like a form of 65 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,840 omission. That's like a form of lying in one way. Look, we can, okay, look, let's just jump into this 66 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:44,640 power of idea. Okay, let me understand this real quick because honestly, like what you just said is 67 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:51,920 really interesting to me because the whole idea of lying by omission is like when you're telling 68 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,800 when we talk about appropriation, right? And it's like what you were just saying, like, okay, tell 69 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:01,360 everyone before we get started before I do this. What you're studying your PhD through 70 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:10,640 you see Santa Barbara, right? Tell us about your work real quick, just like you said, just a 71 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,240 title and what you're doing and then I'm going to get into that, what you're studying with this idea of 72 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:19,040 omission. I feel it, okay, I just want to ask you that when people go omission is kind of still lying, 73 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,880 omission is straight up lying. Like, I don't understand why people like want to ask you that. If you 74 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,800 didn't tell what was going on, that shit is a lie. Okay, I'm sorry, keep going. 75 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:32,880 Well, I mean, we can talk about, I think was it on, it was on my podcast where we had a conversation 76 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,320 where I was saying I would like to have a whole conversation about astrology and lying because I 77 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,800 think that each sign lies differently and I think me and you actually kind of disagree on this. 78 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:49,360 I don't necessarily think that omission is lying all the time. Sometimes you can leave things out 79 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:56,640 and it benefits people and then I think that everyone does this. Just like I think everyone lies, 80 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,400 you know, so people are like, you're always telling truth, like, no, you don't, you know what I mean? 81 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,840 Like, that's a lie itself. You definitely don't always tell the truth. Nobody to. 82 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:08,160 But I like that conversation and we can have that conversation for sure. 83 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:14,000 So yeah, when I start, I'm giving my PhD in sociology from University of California, 84 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,400 Stanisth and Barbara, I just finished like the halfway point. So I finished my master's degree 85 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,640 where I studied astrology, the social phenomenon, that's still what I study. Basically, 86 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:28,560 I study culture and stigma. So I look at, but I look at like what, and belief, 87 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:33,360 so belief systems essentially, but I do that through astrology. So I look at how people, 88 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,720 what do people think about astrology? Do they like it? Do they hate it? Do they feel what kind of 89 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,440 way do they feel about it? And then now I'm going to be looking a little bit more at how people 90 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:48,560 within the astrology community talk about astrology, feel about people outside of the astrology community 91 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:53,040 and how it's being talked about. And also like, you know, there's a kind of feeling that it's growing 92 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:58,480 in popularity and what do people inside of the community feel about that? And it's just a way 93 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:06,000 of looking at culture, but also like stigmatized forms of belief, which are kind of everything 94 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:11,520 depending on your perspective. Yeah, so I don't know, I mean, and you know this, I know a lot 95 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:16,400 about astrology as a practice too. So like, you know, if you're a tourist, you act like this, or 96 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:22,800 if the mood is in Gemini, what does that mean? And so I know a lot about that, but that's not my, 97 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,040 that's not my, as a sociologist, that's not what I look at, but obviously that's how I got into it. 98 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:33,520 Yeah, yeah, nothing that's amazing. I remember when you first got into it, because your your astrology 99 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:38,480 was like your driving point, I thought the way that I saw what you were saying, but I still want to 100 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,640 get back to that idea that omission is not lying. 101 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:51,120 Well, in the context, so like we can talk about that too, like, in the context of Memorial Day, 102 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:58,400 right? I think it's kind of important. So, you know, everything, so I will, actually, so I also have a 103 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:03,600 master's degree in education from the University of Washington, and I studied story. Actually, like my 104 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:10,960 thesis was why do teachers tell personal stories in classroom? And so I studied story a lot. And my 105 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:17,360 personal perspective is that everything is a story. We craft narratives so that we can better understand 106 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:22,480 the world, because you can't tell all the details of the entire, of even your life, but certainly not 107 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:27,760 America or like the universe, you can't do it as impossible. So we construct these narratives, 108 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,720 and you have to leave things out, and you have to, you know, but, but what you choose to leave out 109 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:40,400 sometimes can be very specific. And in the context of Memorial Day in America, often, what we leave out 110 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:46,320 is intentional, right? We leave out, you know, that was the whole purpose of the people's history of 111 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:51,040 the United States by Howard Zan, right? He said, you know, it's like, let's tell the story of America 112 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,200 through the eyes of the indigenous people and of the brown folk, and everybody that's left out of 113 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,200 the narrative, right? So now we have a narrative about Memorial Day that's basically all about the 114 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:03,280 military, but really, I mean, it's, and it isn't about the military, but what are the origins of it? 115 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,200 Who were the people that started this? Like, why are we not talking about that? Why is that not part of 116 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:13,120 the story? And the truth of it is is that if we really want to talk about the military, those 117 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:21,040 truths in that, in that division of the states was that those troops were not honored in any way 118 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,840 because of what they stood for. And that was the government against the government, right? So I mean, 119 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:30,800 like, we, and the people brought that together and made in body together, not only the people, but 120 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,720 the people who were not even considered people at that time. So I always look, you know, I am, I'm always 121 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:40,160 looking at the in between of the gray of like, what was the, I'm a behaviorist. I'm like, what was 122 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,840 the feeling? What was the behavior? What was the cognitive, the cognitive, the cognitive 123 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:48,640 distance and the cognitive, um, what brought that, what brought that thought together? And then I think 124 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:55,040 about even on a soul level, like, I think about just the souls and the trauma of slave people to have 125 00:11:55,040 --> 00:12:01,360 the, the capacity for compassion in the space in that way, coming from a space of struggle in that 126 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:07,360 way. And you talk about people of privilege to, to toss aside people's bodies into these, you know, 127 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:13,600 it's just like that, that into these shallow graves, um, because of what, because of the opposition, 128 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:19,440 right? Not because of, it was such a tie, emotional tie to, to something other than what it actually 129 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:24,160 really was. It wasn't really about, you know, this military thing. It really was about, it's just kind 130 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:29,120 of like, the way that I think about it now is just kind of like the way that we, that we look at, um, 131 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:34,240 the, how we look at race and how we look at relationships. And it becomes like these people who 132 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:39,520 extremist just disconnects like the humanity out of all of it and it just becomes this, 133 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:46,480 this like personal, personal quest of, it's just because of personal identity almost. Like, 134 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,560 people who aren't thinking about like the presidency, but they're thinking about Trump, they're, 135 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:54,800 right? They're like, they think they didn't think about, you know, um, Nazis, they thought about, 136 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,120 they thought about Hitler. Like it was like this, I don't even know how I'm trying to explain this, 137 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:05,280 but it was like this, this phenomenon of this like, what is that? Like what I mean, I'm trying to 138 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,880 describe it. I want everyone to know that it's like seven o'clock in the morning, who I am right now, 139 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:16,880 my brain will warm up by time this podcast ends. So, I mean, I think that, I don't, I don't know, um, 140 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:24,000 I think that it's, so what I often tell my students when I'm talking about this and actually, 141 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:29,040 how I felt about it as I was like getting more familiar with sociologies that, um, 142 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,760 you know, everything is incredibly complicated, right? And so it's, and so it's in one way, 143 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:40,160 it's kind of okay to not, not know, but in, but also once you do know, there's kind of no excuse to 144 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:46,640 not, to like ignore it again. And so I think they're like, you know, in the context of, um, maybe 145 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,560 Memorial Day and like what's being left out? I mean, you know, so like, for example, 146 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:56,640 America is full of these narratives and what is always being left out of these narratives is 147 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,480 always just like very interesting, right? Especially to Black folk and, you know, people of color in 148 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:05,360 America were always like, why are you not telling this part of the story? You know, I mean, it's, it's, 149 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:10,480 I mean, you like, even the fact that like civil rights, so thinking about Memorial Day, like, 150 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:17,360 the civil rights movement, um, in part, what has to do with the, the, the fervor around it and the 151 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:22,320 momentum as it gains team, how to do with the fact that Black folks and people of color were going 152 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:27,920 to fight for them for America in Vietnam and then came home and were treated worse than they were 153 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,560 treated when they were in Vietnam, right? And then so you have what am I fighting for? And you were, 154 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,360 and, and there's, you kind of give us this belief that we're supposed to be, uh, you know, 155 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,440 all men are created equal, all people are created equal. And I'm going to have these rights when I 156 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:47,040 come back, but that is obviously not true. And so when you say you, that you believe in, um, the 157 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:52,080 troops that you believe in our military and these are the things that Americans value. Um, and then 158 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:57,440 I come home after serving my country and I'm not treated as an equal, but you know, so then you have 159 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:02,640 to kind of wrestle with the hypocrisy of America. Um, and, you know, and then there's another question 160 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:08,800 about who's not doing that wrestling, uh, who's not doing that, um, who's not looking at that honestly. 161 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:14,880 Right, but that's the part where the omission comes in for me because at, at some point, there, 162 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:22,880 there is, there, there is a line of reality, right? And I believe that when you omit history that way, 163 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:29,120 or you do not tell the full story, um, like it doesn't obviously give the whole, the whole 164 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:34,080 reality of the situation. Like, and I don't remember the quote, or who, who quoted it at this time, 165 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,320 right now, but it was just like, you know, you look at, and I say this all the time in my, in my classes, 166 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:43,760 it's like, when you look at history and you look at it from the victor, right? It looks like amazing 167 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,760 triumphs, but if you look at it from the people who were already there, the black and brown people, 168 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:53,200 it wasn't a day of a, it was a years of apocalypse. I mean, honestly, like if we're looking at 169 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,680 it from the other view, it makes the whole situation look a little different. The period where you look 170 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,320 at how dynamic you're looking at it. So when, and to me, like on a more personal level, and you can 171 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:09,040 even take it bigger, when you omit something because you are trying to paint a picture of a reality, 172 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:14,400 that that's more about you than the actual factual thing and not allowing the other people or the 173 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:20,480 other person or the, the, the, the, the droves of people to take the whole reality and make what it 174 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:25,120 means to them in their whole, in their way. It's almost like telling other people what you believe 175 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:31,440 they need to know, which to me is, is, is, is omitting the participation of the conversation. It's not 176 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,920 a conversation at that point because it's almost like, I'm gonna protect myself and not say this part 177 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,520 because I, I don't really want to hear what you got to say about that part, but I'm gonna let you do 178 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,520 this part because that's what's most comfortable for me. And that invites the premise culture to make 179 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:49,440 sense because if you didn't omit, if you omitted the, the violence that you omitted this, this, like, 180 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:54,560 I mean, the way that the, I mean, the union soldiers retreated, you omit that, that it was, 181 00:16:54,560 --> 00:17:00,720 it was a former slaves that created this respectful burial for people who were fighting on their 182 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:06,080 behalf. If you omit that, you, you have to in order to hold the lie of white supremacist culture, 183 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:12,720 you have to. And so to me, that, that is, is manipulation at its highest form because we, here we are now 184 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,240 what, like, you know, 200 years later, or something and... 185 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:23,360 Yeah, so I actually agree, but I'll, but I'll, this is kind of a... 186 00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:25,680 Do your things, little brother, do your thing. 187 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:30,400 Yeah, this is like a little bit, this is something that like, you know, an academic would do, 188 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:35,200 and so like, I agree with you, but I also think that there's a, there's a, when, sometimes when you use, 189 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:42,000 when you use, like, totalizing language, right? So like omission is lying, right? In the context of 190 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:50,720 a narrative about the United States, if we are omitting the destruction of, you know, Indigenous people, 191 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:59,760 if we're omitting the, the, the, the, the, how much black people gave to this country, 192 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,240 how much brown people gave to this country, like, this country was built on the backs of brown and 193 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:10,320 black people, right? Literally, if we omit that, then certainly is lying, but you also have to kind of 194 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:16,480 think about interpersonal relationships, right? So this is like a, I'm making a pivot here. So like, 195 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:21,600 if you say it, you have to kind of define exactly in what ways are you talking? I'm not, you could say, 196 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:27,040 I'm not talking about interpersonal relationships, I'm talking about the narrative of the United States, 197 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:32,560 when I say omission is lying, you know, so there's, because so when I was saying it earlier, I'm saying, 198 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,280 like, yeah, when you, when you're talking to like a, you know, an intimate partner or something like that, 199 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:43,280 you know, and they ask you a question and they, and you know that you're, you're, 200 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:49,760 just being asked to support them, not to give them the truth, and you're just like, you know, 201 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:55,040 that's a different, that's a different scenario. Yeah. So it's tricky, right? That's a story too, though. 202 00:18:55,040 --> 00:19:00,560 You're telling, you're telling them a story. It's a negotiation between you. I do. I know, I know what you're saying. 203 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:07,360 I do. And I trust me. I am not, I am not the best at not omitting, right? But I see, if I lie, 204 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:13,280 I, if I lie, I don't lie by omission, because, but this is, and you're talking, now you pivot to 205 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:20,000 interpersonal, um, the, the, for me, I, I just, when we talk about interpersonal, and we, if we take 206 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,480 it down from the bigger picture, because I look at this bigger picture, and in my mind, like I said, 207 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:29,440 I go down to how, how that trickles down into how we relate. So that it does become interpersonal, 208 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,800 right? And it, like, this whole idea, and I'm skipping lots of steps. But, um, this whole, 209 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:40,320 I, and I, and I think about, as Black folks, how we, uh, move about the world, uh, move about, 210 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:46,000 move around, move around the world and in this United States, um, under the, under the guides and 211 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,720 lie of the white supremaculture in, under the idea of this omission of truth and history, 212 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:58,640 then coming down to how the, how it is, um, how the, it becomes the efficacy of, of how we show up 213 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:03,680 in, in these spaces. And so it, it, it goes like, it gets layered and it goes a long ways, but when 214 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:10,880 it comes to interpersonal, I just believe that it's, it's important to allow the other person 215 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:20,480 to have their truth in it. 216 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:32,800 [Music] 217 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:40,000 For me to tell, for me to decide what part of the story needs to be left out or is better for 218 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,640 them not to hear is more about me than it is about them. Do you see them? But you're talking about it 219 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:49,600 being included in the story, right? Well, I'm included in the truth in the truth. If I tell you something 220 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,640 that I'm like, okay, don't tell you, you know, he's not, it's not gonna work for you. Like, don't 221 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,440 take that, say that part. I might be right. Like, I might be like, that may have been hard for you to hear, 222 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,520 but then if I say it to you, you'd be like, oh yeah, that's, I understand that I did it. 223 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,640 Matter of fact, I need to hear that because now I can do this and I would be like, oh shit, 224 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:11,120 I was like, I, I, I, by your, by the way that you could take that in, it was information you needed, 225 00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:14,560 instead of me deciding that it was not good for you. Does that make sense? Like, I'm, 226 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:21,440 I don't want to decide what I, what you can handle out of this story. Why am I deciding what part of the story is true for you and not it? 227 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:28,880 If you've got, if I'm doing that, I'm, I'm controlling this scenario and I'm lying to you because I'm, I'm choosing what you can actually, 228 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:35,120 I'm choosing the story for you. Does that make sense? I see the look on your face. I hope people can see him. This is the look of like, I 229 00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,560 does agree with you. I eat you and I don't want to do this on your podcast. 230 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:51,120 Yeah, for real. You should not have straight. Like, I have an example on deck that could, that could show the how that's not necessarily true for you within the past 24 hours. 231 00:21:51,120 --> 00:22:00,240 But I, I want it because I, because I, this is my ish. Like, I want to know how it doesn't really, how, that's how I look at it. Right? 232 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:08,160 I mean, that's a little, how I look at it. It does it. Don't get me wrong. Like I said at the beginning, as I, I definitely have done it before. 233 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:16,320 I try not to do that, right? But it doesn't mean I don't do it. But I'm saying, so that's a different too. So now we're talking about intention. 234 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:24,400 Right. We're talking about what are people intentionally lying and if they are intentionally lying, that's bad. But if they are unintentionally lying, that's bad too. 235 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,000 Well, but, but you can't blame somebody for unintentionally lying. 236 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,720 Well, how do you unintentionally lie? 237 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:41,360 Well, so for example, you could do, you could, you could be acting defensively, right? And, you know, and you're also, you're also taking for granted that people know what they're doing. 238 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:48,560 You know, I said this in therapy the other day, am I there? It was so hard. And I was basically like, I don't actually believe that people know what they're doing. 239 00:22:48,560 --> 00:23:00,320 So like, you know what I mean? Like, I think that people act in all sorts of different ways. But if you, so if you say something to someone and then they have a feeling and they don't know how to engage with that feeling, 240 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:20,720 immediately, they don't know what that feeling is and you're like asking them to kind of say, say something, right? And then they go and then they say something to you and they, or they say, I don't know, you are something, you know, and you're, or maybe you challenge them and then they give you what you, what you wanted to hear, but they don't actually believe that or they don't know what they believe. 241 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:27,520 And so, you know, there's all sorts of, I believe that there's way more going on than what we're actually consciously thinking about. 242 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:40,640 And so, and so you can unintentionally, yeah, you can unintentionally really hurt people's feelings or and lie. It's, you know, no wonder what they want or what they're doing. 243 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:56,320 But I wonder if that's really, to me, I wonder if I guess when I think about lie, I feel like I wonder if that's like a lie or if that's like a misrepresentation or like you say, I'm just not ready and it just came out sideways as a half, it's a half story. 244 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,120 It's like, there's not a half true to it. It's incomplete. You know what I mean? Like I didn't finish it. Like I couldn't think of it. 245 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:06,800 You were on my ass for five minutes and I couldn't think about it. So I just said, like, okay, I don't know what I was like. 246 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:13,520 To me, I don't know if that's like the same thing. Like I, for me, I feel like in flying is, is an intentional thing. 247 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:20,960 And if I, like if someone lies by omission, I, what I'm saying is that it's, it's about you. 248 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:27,520 It's about, like if I, if I decide not to say something, it's because I don't want to deal with that. Not because it's about me. 249 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,920 I'm taking the story out, which means I'm giving you the parts that I can handle to have the conversation. 250 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:41,600 It's not the parts that I think that you can handle. It's that I don't want to deal with what the other part is going to be, which is a self protection thing, which is, is, is not. 251 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:49,600 I mean, it doesn't, like I said, if I'm, if I'm trying to work with someone and I'm, and I'm giving them just pieces of it, I'm not, 252 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,640 I'm only working with them on pieces of it. 253 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,340 They don't know the whole story. 254 00:24:53,340 --> 00:24:55,580 - It's happening now. 255 00:24:55,580 --> 00:24:56,600 - I'm keeping it. 256 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,480 - Man, don't make me like, 257 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,680 spar you right now. 258 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,920 - Yeah, it's like, you know, I mean, this is why we disagree. 259 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,060 I know, man. 260 00:25:08,060 --> 00:25:13,060 - Because right now, we're unwravelling the complexity. 261 00:25:13,060 --> 00:25:16,820 - Oh, I mean the idea, that, 262 00:25:16,820 --> 00:25:18,600 I got some feedback is it. 263 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,180 - No, you're good. 264 00:25:20,180 --> 00:25:22,240 - So like, we're unwravelling the complexity 265 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,560 of just the idea that through a line, through a mission. 266 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:27,840 And like, I mean, for example, 267 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,840 you know somebody very, very well 268 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,460 and you know how they're gonna react 269 00:25:33,460 --> 00:25:35,420 if you tell them something. 270 00:25:35,420 --> 00:25:36,720 Are you gonna do that? 271 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:37,880 Are you gonna purposely hurt them? 272 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,080 Even though you know, you know what I mean? 273 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,680 And I guess you would say, well, that's on them, right? 274 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,160 But what if it's somebody that you love and really care about? 275 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,720 And you've had this same sort of conversation 276 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,960 a million times and you know that what you're about to say to them 277 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,800 is, and maybe it's not for you to say, right? 278 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,840 Like maybe it's not for you to tell that person that. 279 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,080 - I mean, there's that part. 280 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,120 - I know family secrets of someone else. 281 00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:02,400 And it's like, I wanted to tell these people 282 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,320 through, like legit 20 years, but is it my place to tell them? 283 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,640 Am I being a liar by not telling them, 284 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,320 these are not my business? 285 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:11,480 You know what I mean? 286 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,000 But I somehow got privy to that information. 287 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:14,840 - Yeah. 288 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,520 - So a bad person for omitting that? 289 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,920 - No, but I mean, okay, let me split this way. 290 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,000 - Wait a minute, what's the, well, that's not what you just said though. 291 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,680 - No, but hey, I'm about to say something 292 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,040 that tells you about this. 293 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,600 Now, I didn't say you gotta run and go tell it 294 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,440 every time you got a piece of information. 295 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,600 But if I said Ian, Ian, I did this by blah blah blah. 296 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,840 And you know, you know, you're gonna be like, 297 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,440 I eat your look. 298 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,120 I don't know that it's my place, 299 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:43,880 but since you are bringing it to me, 300 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,680 I'm about to be like, I'ma let you know. 301 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,360 But if you just know some information and you're like, 302 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:50,040 oh, oh, I know this information. 303 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,560 Let me go run and tell you what I know. 304 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,720 That's not what I'm talking about. 305 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,600 I'm talking about like, Ian, 306 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:56,440 if I knew something about-- 307 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:57,440 - You're talking about a little bit more. 308 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,080 - If I knew something about you 309 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,560 and I was like, that shit is awful 310 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,320 and or not even awful, that shit is, you know, 311 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,080 whatever, it's information. 312 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,960 And it's information that was given to me by a third party. 313 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,600 I guess this is where that great, 314 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,440 there's lots of great area in human behavior. 315 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,040 But like, for me, the way I interpret that 316 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,880 is that at that point, like what you were just saying, 317 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,520 that depends on the relationship 318 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,320 and the degrees of the relationship and trust 319 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,520 and the knowingness involved with all of that kinds of, 320 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,320 all of that is relevant. 321 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,360 I'm saying in generalities, if there's information 322 00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:33,200 that you and I are in direct contact 323 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,000 and we're in direct conversation about, 324 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,800 and you decide that I'm not gonna tell you this piece 325 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,000 because I don't think that you're gonna react to it well 326 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,000 or I don't think that you're gonna like what I have to say 327 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,600 or I don't, so I'm just gonna give you this piece of it. 328 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,560 And we're in conversation, I think that's, 329 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,680 I don't like that, that's what I'm saying. 330 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,840 - That's a very, that's a much more specific example. 331 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:54,840 - It is not good. 332 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,000 - You said it in the beginning. 333 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,160 - Whatever, it worked the same. 334 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,000 (laughing) 335 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,320 - That's what I'm saying, it needs to, 336 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,200 'cause it's complex, so you can't just say, 337 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,360 you can't just say, I mean, in the context of, you know, 338 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:09,120 the United States and the narratives about the United States 339 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,520 and the, kind of can't find the word for that. 340 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,280 But the inclusion of brown and black people 341 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,120 within the narrative about the United States 342 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:17,440 and the United States military, 343 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,880 that to me seems absolutely like a lie 344 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,880 because it's like, we're consciously creating a narrative 345 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,200 that privileges white people, privileges what the white 346 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,000 narrative, white privacy mindset, narrative, 347 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,320 all of those things and diminishes the role 348 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,960 of black and brown people within it. 349 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,120 And we're doing that knowing, or, I mean, not we necessarily, 350 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,880 but the people that are continually perpetuating it. 351 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,840 But at the same time, I think that there's, 352 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,200 I mean, this is, and this might be a little provocative 353 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:46,920 on this show, but the fact is, is that like, 354 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,240 most white people don't know. 355 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,680 Like, most white people don't know. 356 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,000 But the white people that do know 357 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,440 that are perpetuating that, that they are the liars for sure. 358 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,760 But it's like, you have to kind of give some grace 359 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,520 sometimes to the narrative and try and include it. 360 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,360 That's why, actually, it's a very good thing 361 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,520 that you did this. 362 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:03,360 I didn't know that. 363 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,480 Like, am I a bad guy for not knowing 364 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,640 that the origins of Memorial Day, not necessarily. 365 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:11,960 And am I lying every time I perpetuate the story 366 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,480 of Memorial Day when I don't know? 367 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,000 Is it, am I lying about it? 368 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,480 No, I just didn't know. 369 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:18,560 So that's, it's like, there's-- 370 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,520 Yeah, but that would be, it would be different, 371 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:21,880 like what you said at the beginning, 372 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,040 now that you do know, if you were to, if you, 373 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,960 now that you know, right, it's kind of like that Maya Angelou, 374 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,760 is that when you know better, you must do better, right? 375 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,200 Now, if you continue to not know, and you continue 376 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,840 to move on as if that information was not relevant for you 377 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,320 or for everything that's going on, now, 378 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,760 now you're choosing a narrative that works for you. 379 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,640 The truth of it is is that Memorial Day's inception 380 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,400 and inception of Memorial Day was about black gratitude 381 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,800 to people who had sacrificed their life for their freedom. 382 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,160 That's what Memorial Day was about, right? 383 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,920 And so, and it was, and it was, like we were saying, 384 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:08,040 it was former slaves giving union soldiers, specifically, 385 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,120 a proper burial in which they were dropped into, 386 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,600 and they were in, that were left in a Confederate prison camp. 387 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:21,000 So that, that part is, I think, super relevant 388 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:26,040 to understand the relationship and to this lie, 389 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,120 or the relationship to this omission, this relationship, 390 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,160 it's a huge, it's exactly what you're saying 391 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,920 with a perpetuation of, I think, of this, of this narrative 392 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,040 around criminality of black folks, of this narrative around 393 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:43,080 the lack of ability and capability and efficacy, 394 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,720 all of this is relevant. 395 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,080 And then when you have stories like this in 1865, 396 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,280 where this is what, this is what was going on, 397 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,760 this is what was going on for enslaved people. 398 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,480 Proofiest, you know, this is what, 399 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,560 where the mindset was for enslaved people. 400 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:00,400 You know what I mean? 401 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,360 Like, it's like giving back to the humanity, 402 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:07,920 like, trying to really understand, to really understand 403 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,680 the depths of that particular lie, the white supremacist 404 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,000 culture lie, the depths of that lie, the omission within that, 405 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,400 within that history is devastating, obviously. 406 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,160 But it all, it limbs to all of this other, 407 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,200 all of this other, 408 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,400 degradation of consciousness of black and brown people 409 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:27,240 in this country. 410 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,600 So I just, about our own history, about our own compassion, 411 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,360 about our own ability, it just is something huge. 412 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:35,960 No, to answer your question, 413 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,240 are you a bad person 'cause you didn't know, of course not, right? 414 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,040 Now, I mean, I think that, but this is the thing though, 415 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,560 are you willingly, are you, it's different to me 416 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,560 if you are willingly accepting and spacing ignorance. 417 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,360 That to me is different. 418 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,680 - Yeah, so I mean, okay, I'll actually want to back up too, 419 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,360 'cause one of the reasons why, I think that I'm, 420 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,640 I mean, we get tangled up in this multiple times, 421 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,000 but I used to be way more like you. 422 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,600 And what I, like, I used to be like, yeah, omission is lying, 423 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,800 if you omit something, then you're a liar, 424 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,560 and you're a bad person. 425 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:16,400 - Right. 426 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,640 - I had a hard line in the sand. 427 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,120 And so I would confront people all the time. 428 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,000 And like, first of all, I'll tell you one thing, 429 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,800 it did not benefit me to do that, right? 430 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,080 Like, it was like, so if I was like, 431 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,000 if I was like, oh, you're obviously not telling the whole truth, 432 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,240 I actually told a story about my mom the other day to someone, 433 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,920 and it was, and I guess it kind of, it would kind of relate 434 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,320 to what you're saying, I don't need to go run and tell, 435 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,320 but you know, she told some family friends about an affair 436 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,200 that one of them had had with you, like, 437 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,040 - Oh my god. 438 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,040 - Yeah, straight out, I mean, we know, you know, 439 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,960 we were, we were, we were, we were on blast, 440 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,760 but you know, you know, R&P mom, 441 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,840 but at the same time, mom was low, low intense. 442 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,640 And like, she, but she felt like the her friend who was married 443 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,760 had been holding on to this lie, 444 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,240 and she felt that she needed to say, 445 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,600 to put that out in the open, because it was all, 446 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,120 it was like, she knew she was holding on to this secret, 447 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,760 and so it was like, for the betterment of everyone 448 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,360 for this thing to be out there. 449 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,840 You know, and I remember, I was in the room when this happened, 450 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,120 and I was just like, slaver-gasted, you know what I mean? 451 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,200 I cannot believe that you had the, 452 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,880 go, so, you know, but it's like, but there you go. 453 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,240 She had some truth, it wasn't untrue, 454 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,760 but it was, but she put it out there, I mean, you know, 455 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,640 so I don't know, it's, it's, it's, it's always hard, 456 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,040 but anyways, on a more personal level, 457 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,480 I feel like I've hurt people's feelings very much, 458 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,600 I told them the truth, and even if it was about me and them, 459 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,400 I, you know, there's things that I could have done, 460 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,280 for example, like in personal, like, romantic relationships. 461 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,640 Would you either tell the person, why, 462 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,600 that you're leaving or do you just leave? 463 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,960 Once you've made the decision to leave, you know what I mean? 464 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,120 Like, is it omitting why is that lying? 465 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,240 Or you just like, make the decision, okay, I'm out. 466 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:08,440 And I've done both, and I can tell you that it really never helps, 467 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,800 there's never really a right or wrong way, 468 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,520 it's kind of whatever you choose to. 469 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,560 But if you, if you, if you're staying omission is lying, 470 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,000 then I should always tell the person, and then, then leave. 471 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,200 But I can tell you that doing that, 472 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,120 I've been, I've been skewered, 473 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,880 and then not doing that, I've been skewered. 474 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,120 - No, look, I'm not, it's not, it's not, 475 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,560 this, again, it's not about them, right? 476 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,240 Like, it's all, it's about you. 477 00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:33,840 And we talked about this on your podcast, 478 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,120 which I'm gonna get to, but we, it's really like, 479 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,400 and look, I've been married twice, right? 480 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,360 I've had several relationships in between. 481 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,120 I have left them mostly, I think I've been left once, right? 482 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,880 And I'm gonna tell you like this, when I left them, 483 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,920 I always gave a reason. 484 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,120 And I always gave time to process. 485 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,720 And I always gave, it was always a kind of a slow separation. 486 00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:03,400 This is just how I roll, this is how I do it, right? 487 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,040 Because that's what I'm comfortable with. 488 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,840 I could never just be like, if we were in a relate, 489 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,800 okay, let me just, let me just preface this with, 490 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,680 if we were in a real relationship, like, 491 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,280 a meaningful relationship, I could never just be like, 492 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,960 to my romantic partner, and I'm out. 493 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,760 If it was a healthy relationship, right? 494 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,840 Now, there's lots of caveats, 495 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,720 this is like a human behavior, 496 00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:27,880 this is like a lot of complexities in between, 497 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,960 but what I'm saying that is like, 498 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,680 I just believe that there's a way to be compassionate 499 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,400 and empathetic both, and that you can be respectful 500 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,440 of the other person's process. 501 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,720 And by telling them what your truth is. 502 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:48,200 And so your truth, if you're like, 503 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,120 look, your breath is stank, and I've been trying to deal 504 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,280 with it for like six months, 505 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:57,280 and I cannot, how do you do that with tax and with compassion, 506 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,240 right? 507 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:00,720 And some people be like, I would never say anything like that. 508 00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:03,280 I would just go, I can't see the look on their face, 509 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:04,800 I can't hurt their feelings, I can't, 510 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,680 but you gotta know that that choice was not about them. 511 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,600 It was about you not being able to deal with what they might say, 512 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,480 and the, or how they might feel. 513 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,840 And then, but I'm saying give them the choice, 514 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,080 give them the opportunity to say that hurts me, 515 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:21,720 or give them the opportunity to be like, you know what, 516 00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:23,480 after you, get out of here. 517 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,000 I gotta wanna talk to you, that was rude. 518 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,920 Like I thought that would, you'd have to tell me that. 519 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,200 Like, okay, but I need to tell you, 520 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,560 I wanted to give you all of it, but that's my style, 521 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,040 and it goes down in the personality, 522 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,160 it goes down to like, it's complex, but for me, 523 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,800 I, you know very well, I have actually, 524 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,760 the people I choose to have in my life, 525 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,520 I want them to be able to tell me the truth, 526 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:45,480 like that. 527 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,760 I've actually stopped, I've actually stopped friendships 528 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,880 because of omission. 529 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:51,720 Because. 530 00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:53,840 - I had this conversation with someone else the other day, 531 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,440 and they were saying this is kind of the same, 532 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,720 I mean, they said is about delivery. 533 00:36:57,720 --> 00:36:59,360 - It's about delivery, baby. 534 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,120 - But I actually think that, like, so I am like you, 535 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,600 so for example, the way that you're talking about, 536 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,560 that's what I want for people, right? 537 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,320 But I have a lot of people in my life that can do that. 538 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,920 So I have to, and so when they omit, right? 539 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,480 And especially if I know that they're omitting something for me, 540 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,200 and I'm just like, I mean, honestly, 541 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,680 you know what I mean, we talked about this with astrology. 542 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,280 Robin is the type of person that will not tell you 543 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,280 anything directly. 544 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:26,920 (laughs) 545 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,640 - But see, I think she does that to you, 546 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,560 I don't think she does that to me. 547 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,520 - Well, I think that that's incorrect. 548 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,520 But I also, I can tell you, that's not, 549 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,360 that's not unique. 550 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:41,520 Lots of people do that. 551 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:42,360 - Yeah. 552 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,280 - Because, yeah, you're right, it is about them. 553 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,920 I don't know how this person's gonna react, 554 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,200 and so I don't want to tell them, 555 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,120 so I'm gonna tell them in a way that is more subtle, 556 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,160 but maybe they're not gonna get the point, right? 557 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,360 They're like, you know, I want you to just tell me the thing. 558 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:56,200 Just tell me the thing. 559 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:57,800 If it makes me upset, I'll get upset, 560 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:58,640 and then I'll be over it. 561 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,800 That's how I roll, but they don't know that necessarily. 562 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,960 And they know me well, unless I've told them that. 563 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,900 And so yeah, it's just, it's, it's, it's, 564 00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:06,300 - I mean, I'm in, I'm in, I'm in, 565 00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:07,960 I'm in literally an environment now, 566 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,560 in which direct communication is the last line 567 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:12,560 of communication. 568 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,360 No one says anything directly. 569 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:15,200 - Yeah, I can get that. 570 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:16,440 - And the thing is that like, 571 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,840 that is insanely frustrating to me. 572 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,480 I do not like it at all, but it's not, 573 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,060 but I don't, I can't go around being like, 574 00:38:24,060 --> 00:38:26,000 everybody's omitting everything around here. 575 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,520 I mean, I've done that, and I'll tell you, it didn't end well. 576 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:29,360 You know what I'm saying? 577 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,960 So it's like, we need to talk about the things. 578 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,240 And in fact, I mean, and this is kind of moving 579 00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:38,200 into a astrology land, but, but, you know, 580 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,320 families in particular, I feel like have a lot of secrets, 581 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,600 and there's a lot of life. 582 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:44,800 And they do that. 583 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,360 Why? Because there's a need to keep the family together. 584 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,320 And so in that situation, 585 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,880 lying becomes important for the togetherness, 586 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,600 for the functionality, for the stability. 587 00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:58,720 Some things need to be out. 588 00:38:58,720 --> 00:38:59,560 - Yeah, you know it. 589 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,000 - But other things, we don't, we don't tell that 590 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,200 outside of the family, we don't tell that. 591 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,640 Inside of the family, X person doesn't need to know, 592 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,320 X person does need to know, we keep it between the two of us, 593 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,840 and even though there's 15 of us, you know, 594 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,560 and so then, so then lying becomes this whole other type 595 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:14,560 of thing. 596 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,400 It becomes something that is actually beneficial 597 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,320 to the long term survival of the unit. 598 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,840 And that, and that, and that, 599 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,040 little nugget, which I definitely got from astrology, 600 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,400 made me rethink the way that you think about lying, 601 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:31,840 is how I used to think about it, 602 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,400 and then thinking about it that way, 603 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,680 made me rethink everything that I thought about lying 604 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:37,680 in the way in which I engaged. 605 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,640 - And which is funny because like, 606 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,440 which is funny because our family, 607 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,400 and I don't know if anyone caught from the beginning, 608 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:48,160 this is Ian Waller, he is the content producer, 609 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,280 power of ideas, podcast, he is also, 610 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,400 like I said, a PhD student, he's also, 611 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,160 Koova Kai, but most importantly, he is my brother. 612 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,800 So this is, so in our family, right, 613 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,720 there are definitely background secrets, 614 00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,720 there's definitely, there's things that have happened, right? 615 00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:11,240 And lots of things that have happened. 616 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:13,160 - No, I'm not gonna say a lot, but I mean, 617 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,040 pretty to freaking significant ish, right? 618 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,480 - Oh, let's be real, let me real, 619 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,280 we wanna put some stuff out like, 620 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,680 I mean, I am living in body, man, 621 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,000 I see. 622 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,240 - Right, and I'm, something got omitted. 623 00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:29,000 - I'm thinking two and three different things, 624 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,480 but yes, you are clearly of here, 625 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:33,480 (laughs) 626 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,000 but at the same time, when we think about how this, 627 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,200 how it works in terms of relationships, 628 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,440 right, the relationship, those omissions, 629 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,680 it goes back to what we were talking about, 630 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,720 in a family unit that way, yeah, everyone can't, 631 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,360 you're not gonna put the six year old involve 632 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,400 into that marriage situation, 633 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,400 we're not gonna be telling little Timmy 634 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,000 about what mom and dad are doing over here, 635 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,240 because that's inappropriate, right? 636 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:03,480 Like in a family structure, but for me, 637 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,200 I feel like there is a time for, 638 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:12,200 for in that space, it's the same idea, 639 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,000 is it relevant for you? 640 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,400 If you come to me, like, you know, like this has happened, 641 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,280 if you come to me, I'm gonna need you to tell me the truth. 642 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,640 If I come, I'm sorry, if I come to you, 643 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,640 and I'm asking you, how does homeboy look just like you? 644 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,120 I'm gonna need to tell you the truth, right? 645 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,960 I'm just gonna need you to tell me the truth. 646 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:31,800 Now, 647 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:32,720 - Well, that's different, that's different. 648 00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:34,640 I mean, if you ask, if somebody asks you directly 649 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,040 and you lie to them, that's just lying. 650 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,120 - But that's the opposite. 651 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,200 - Oh, mission of truth, right? 652 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:39,920 Do we have to protect their feelings? 653 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,360 Do they need to know all of that thing 654 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,960 or do that can they compassionately engage in the idea 655 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,880 that that person is seeking truth from you? 656 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,600 Can you give up your protection, 657 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,440 to give them the truth that they need to protect them? 658 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,480 - Yeah, I think that is, 659 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,680 I think that in that case, 660 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:57,880 if somebody asks me directly, 661 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,280 this is what I actually tell them now, 662 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,680 but I used to be like, I'll be like, 663 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:01,760 yeah, I'm about to keep it real. 664 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:02,800 Wasn't this person that ever asked them, 665 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:03,800 no, what's up? 666 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:04,640 - Right. 667 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:05,760 - So I don't do that anymore. 668 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,040 Now I say, well, on a scale from one to 10, 669 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,120 (laughing) 670 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,040 and being the most real, one being, 671 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:13,720 basically not telling you anything, 672 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:15,640 how real do you want me to keep it? 673 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,240 And I will, and that's, 674 00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:20,120 and you really, and the funniest part about it 675 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:21,960 is that people will be like, 10, 10. 676 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:22,800 And I'll give them 10, 677 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,640 and they'll be like, I wish I could have chose six. 678 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,720 And like, and so I think that it's never, you know. 679 00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:29,800 - I like that though. 680 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:30,640 I like that you're like, 681 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:31,880 what can you deal with right now? 682 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,640 'Cause I got it from zero to one to 10, 683 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:34,480 like, what do you want? 684 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:35,320 - I like that. 685 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,320 - It's like, 686 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,680 tell me how much you want me to lie to you. 687 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:39,520 - Right. 688 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:40,360 - Yeah, essentially. 689 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,720 - I mean, and that's a very, 690 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:44,040 like we were from the beginning 691 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,320 that interpersonal conversation, 692 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:46,880 and when it comes to why it's a premise culture, 693 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,040 we need a hundred percent truth. 694 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:48,880 Okay. 695 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:49,720 (laughing) 696 00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:51,040 - Oh yeah, well, I think, 697 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,920 it's like, yes, I agree, I agree. 698 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,640 There's just, we need to re, 699 00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,600 (laughing) 700 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,920 we need to reintegrate what has been left out 701 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,040 for sure, you know, because, 702 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,000 yeah, because the narrative is, 703 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,480 the narrative has been constructed to, 704 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:16,480 to perpetuate white male supremacy, 705 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,880 and that's the bottom line. 706 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,040 That's what the narrative is. 707 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,480 And, yeah, and so anything else is lying, right? 708 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,920 - Right, and then, you know, yeah, 709 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:31,280 and so is that cisgender, male, white privilege crap? 710 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:32,680 And it can do one and all, 711 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,600 and this is totally not what I was gonna do, 712 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:35,600 this podcast, I was like, 713 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:36,960 this is where I love my podcast, 714 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,640 because I just was doing whatever the hell, 715 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,720 and it turned out, powerful. 716 00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:43,300 (upbeat music) 717 00:43:43,300 --> 00:44:00,720 Okay, so power of ideas. 718 00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:01,800 - Let's talk about it. 719 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,560 That is your podcast. 720 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:04,560 It's amazing. 721 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,160 It started, and then you, it slowed down a bit, 722 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,240 and then it started up again, 723 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:11,160 and now you're in the second, you know, 724 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,320 what is it that take two? 725 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:15,440 You've been doing some great. 726 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:16,560 I love the way you edit. 727 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,240 I wish I had time and skill, (laughing) 728 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:21,040 to you remember, I mean, 729 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:22,640 just when you're listening to your podcast, 730 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,440 if anyone check out power of ideas, 731 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:25,920 because it is not this, 732 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,640 and it's absolutely not like, 733 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,400 it's so much more, 734 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,960 it's concisely put together, 735 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,000 it's really well done. 736 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:35,800 The people, your guests are very, 737 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:40,800 I think you're very good about choosing really dynamic guests. 738 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,280 So I wanna let you talk about how you came up 739 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,080 with power of ideas and why you chose the format that you did. 740 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,280 - First of all, thank you. 741 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,400 I appreciate this. 742 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:52,800 Go very validated right now. 743 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,400 Yeah, so this is, I sent, essentially, 744 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:59,320 this is like version five of a lot of podcasts 745 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:00,440 over the last like six years, 746 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:05,440 and then finally I landed on the power of ideas as like a concept, 747 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,680 and then I kind of realized what I wanted it to look like. 748 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:13,000 And essentially it was like, I realized over time 749 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,440 that I wanted an exciting, 750 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,600 an excuse to talk about deep subjects with people, 751 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,400 you know, me, I like to talk about deep things, 752 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,320 you do too, but not everyone's like that. 753 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,800 But if I created a podcast where I could talk to people 754 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,720 that I like and are typically friends of mine 755 00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:30,440 about deep conversations, they would, 756 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:31,960 I would be able to have those conversations 757 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,000 with people that I care about or invite people on 758 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:36,920 that I maybe don't know that well, 759 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,320 and can talk about like really interesting things. 760 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,360 So yeah, I mean, but this version, 761 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,280 the power of ideas is, it's like, this is season three. 762 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,120 So I did like a season with, I think I did like 20 episodes, 763 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:50,960 which was really hard. 764 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,320 I did a bunch in a row and there was very, 765 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,120 very edited, very put together. 766 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,600 And that was right when I was getting into astrology 767 00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,640 and was basically all about astrology. 768 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,880 And then I kind of redid it and season two 769 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,360 was some of the same guests actually came back on 770 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,360 and it was more about the person. 771 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,600 I was like, I was really interested in the person 772 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,880 that I wanted to know more about them. 773 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,520 And then, you know, and then now I feel like I'm finally in my group. 774 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,280 I'm calling this season 2.5. 775 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,560 We're about to bring people from the very first season 776 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,360 and we're revisiting certain things. 777 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,800 That's not totally true, but I had you on my first season 778 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,960 and now you've come back, you're basically like a regular 779 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,680 guest and my friend Shelley, who was all, she was my very first guest. 780 00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,560 We talked about what is love, dialogue as a form of love 781 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,680 and then a friend of mine. 782 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,720 And then I had Robin on, you know, so, so. 783 00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:41,240 But now I've realized because I'm a sociologist 784 00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:43,080 that one, all the things that I'm talking about 785 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:44,840 and interested in are there, 786 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,280 that basically astrology related, psychology related 787 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,280 or sociology related and I kind of leave the psychology out 788 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,680 and always kind of focus more on social issues 789 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,000 because I think as a sociologist one, I think that they matter 790 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:57,960 more, they have more impact. 791 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:02,080 And, and psychology is in my opinion kind of a way sometimes 792 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,480 to divert attention away from social structures 793 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,280 that are pressing people. 794 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,840 You know, it's, it's you, the person rather than the government 795 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,320 or white supremacy or, you know, these kind of structures 796 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,440 that are, you know, putting, putting pressure on people 797 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:17,920 to act in certain sorts of ways. 798 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:19,440 So anyways, yeah, this is, that's where I'm at. 799 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,240 That's kind of a big picture way of how I think about it. 800 00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:25,360 If you listen to the podcast, you know, you probably just 801 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,080 get gleaned that I'm asking people about their lives 802 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,280 and injecting a lot of astrology and, and I'm trying 803 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,400 to keep it topical these days, you know, so like, 804 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:36,960 when all the George Floyd stuff was going on, 805 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:38,840 I really wanted to talk about Blackness in America. 806 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,480 I really wanted to have people on that I felt was, 807 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,200 were, were that knew this and that could, 808 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,520 that could challenge the narratives going on, like, right? 809 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,560 Like, let's talk about this in a more complex way. 810 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,280 Right now, I, you know, I had a friend on, 811 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:53,760 that is half Palestinian, Jordanian. 812 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,440 She's very, very active in like trying to inform people 813 00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:57,840 about what's been going on there. 814 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,240 And it was like close to my heart, something that I didn't 815 00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:03,080 really talk about often, even though I knew a lot about it 816 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,120 because I felt that I would be kind of, 817 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,200 I could, could it get into the, you could just trouble? 818 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:09,160 Yes, I'm going to be good. 819 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,520 You're going to get, yeah, I, I, I, yeah, but it, yeah, 820 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,280 I want to, I want you to, I mean, I don't want, 821 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,160 I'm, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I want, 822 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,800 kind of like, I'll a little bit through that, that podcast, 823 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:18,960 and I want to get more into it. 824 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,240 Okay, I kind of like, what else did she say? 825 00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:25,080 Because I literally was like, it's something that, 826 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,040 that, that whole conflict is hard for me to talk about 827 00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:33,040 because I don't know enough in depth for me not to sound like, 828 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,600 I'm, I'm, I'm, I don't want to say obviously, 829 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,400 but I'm obviously not anti-Semitic. 830 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:42,920 However, I'm, I'm not, like, I'm not here in Israel, right? 831 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:43,720 Right. 832 00:48:43,720 --> 00:48:44,720 Right. 833 00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:45,720 I think it's like a good, good. 834 00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:46,560 Yeah, yeah. 835 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:50,720 First of all, one of the things that, I'll say this, 836 00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:53,480 there's actually a really, really great episode of this podcast 837 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,800 called Through Line with a historian of Palestine 838 00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,040 that I listened to yesterday. 839 00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,560 And they do, obviously, this is like a very professional 840 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,320 podcast that is plundered by NPR. 841 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,840 And I do a great job of, of, of, of, 842 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,520 giving context to Palestine over the last 100 years. 843 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,520 And basically do what me and Shadin did in my episode, 844 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:17,480 but in a way more, this is an academic that wrote the book 845 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:18,440 on Palestine. 846 00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:19,760 And I would like definitely incur if people 847 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,200 to go, what was your name of that again? 848 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,080 Listen to that episode is called Through Line is the name 849 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:25,880 of the podcast and it was literally, I think, 850 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:27,600 May 27th was the day that it came out. 851 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:28,440 Oh, yeah. 852 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,200 And the name of the, the episode in particular is just Palestine. 853 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:32,040 Okay. 854 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,160 But the episode I had with Shadin was, you know, 855 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,360 essentially the same thing I wanted to talk about the, 856 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,360 the, the genesis of Palestine, the, well, 857 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,120 the, yeah, what, where did Palestine come from? 858 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:44,800 Where did Israel come from? 859 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,480 And then I really wanted to highlight the fact that this was, 860 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,400 one of the things that would mind blowing to me was that 861 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,440 this has not been going on for that long. 862 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,920 And, you know, I remember when I was learning about this 863 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:56,320 and I was talking about some friends and they were like, 864 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:57,680 oh, it's been going on for thousands of years. 865 00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,840 I'm like, no, no, it's not been going on for thousands of years. 866 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,720 Been going on for like 60. 867 00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:03,080 And we need to talk about that. 868 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,920 And, and actually now I know a little bit more of this 869 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:07,280 been going on for about a hundred. 870 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,440 Obviously there's, there's, there's, there's, 871 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,560 there are complexities, but the, the real thing, 872 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,280 the real world consequences of, you know, the, 873 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:22,040 the conflict and the struggle for, of, of, of the, you know, 874 00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,760 Palestinian people against the kind of, you know, 875 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,960 Israeli, you know, state is been going on since basically 1948. 876 00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,360 So there's a, there, but when previously, but anyways, 877 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,840 the, the, there's also this kind of fear, I think, 878 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,640 and you just named it, of anti-Semitism. 879 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,480 If you talk about Palestine, right? 880 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:47,920 There's a narrative about, about Jews in America that is like, 881 00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,920 you can never, like, the guy in the, the through line episode said, 882 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,040 they are in a uniquely, un, um, 883 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:56,960 criticizingable position. 884 00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,040 And if you do, you can get, um, you can get, you can get criticized 885 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,000 and maybe even like, canceled, we'll say for, for, 886 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,400 because of anti-Semitism. 887 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:06,400 Right. 888 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:11,960 And the thing is, is that there's, there's, uh, the, the, the, the, 889 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:17,800 there's an awfulness to what's going on there, um, that is, 890 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,600 you can be a Jew against the Israeli state. 891 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,440 That's something that just should be said now. 892 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,200 This is not, this is, you know, and they did a great job of kind of saying it. 893 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:30,560 If I was to criticize the Saudi government for not allowing women to drive 894 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:35,040 and for, you know, and for being a kind of a totalitarian regime, 895 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,800 not going to criticize me of being Islamophobic, you're just going to say, 896 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,000 oh, they're, that's possibly true. 897 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,000 You know what I mean? 898 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,600 Like, um, the same thing is true for like, you know, Trump, 899 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,240 criticizing Trump doesn't mean that you hate America or that you, 900 00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:48,920 even that you hate all white people. 901 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,440 It just means that you think that Trump and his administration was an awful 902 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,080 administration, uh, you know, 903 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:58,360 being at Nyah who is not a good dude and the Israeli state has done some things 904 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,440 that are, uh, pretty heinous and the, and it's really, really important to 905 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:07,360 understand that the United States has a big role in that. 906 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:08,200 Right. 907 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,800 And, and, you know, and I think that, you know, there's a friend of mine that I want to bring on 908 00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,720 because he's black and he's Jewish and, uh, we had private conversations, 909 00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:18,920 and I'm not out who he is, but he was, you know, told me a few years ago, 910 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,040 he was like, he wins Israel. 911 00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:21,400 He's like, yeah, I can't focus Israel. 912 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:22,400 Really? 913 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:23,400 And I'm like, why? 914 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:24,400 And he just pointed to his skin and I was like, wait, me? 915 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:25,400 He was like, I'm Blackroom. 916 00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,840 He's like, there's, he's like, so it doesn't even matter, you know, that he was 917 00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:33,960 Jew. He would, like, there's, so there's, so there's some things going on in Israel in particular. 918 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,920 And it's not all, it's not all Israelis. 919 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:36,920 That's the, the people. 920 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:38,520 We have to be careful, right? 921 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,960 And it's, so it is, um, it is, you know, my friend shot in is like, it's not complex. 922 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:44,400 And I was saying, it's not complex. 923 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,320 It is complex, um, but it is not as complex as you said. 924 00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,600 And it's not so complex that you dismissed the entire conversation. 925 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:52,600 Right. 926 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:53,600 We just cannot. 927 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,920 Right now, we're, we're at a place, I think, I think personally that we are going 928 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,160 to look back at this in a hundred years. 929 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:06,160 And if it goes this way, we will have witnessed, perhaps, a displacement in genocide of 930 00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,440 a people at the hands of a state. 931 00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:14,600 And the horrible irony is that this construction of the Israeli state was based upon the destruction 932 00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,960 of Jews in World War II, right? 933 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,440 So how did that happen? 934 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:23,200 I mean, I think it says something very important about humanity that this has happened. 935 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,320 Like, it's, and that's why it's so mind blowing to me. 936 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:30,120 And, you know, there's people that will critique what I'm saying basically because, you know, 937 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,680 America has a lot of its hands destroying indigenous people and all that. 938 00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,680 I think the situation is quite parallel to be honest. 939 00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:42,160 They are, but at the same time, it's like, you know, we can do something about it right now. 940 00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:43,160 You know what I'm saying? 941 00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:44,160 Like, this is happening right now. 942 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:45,160 Right. 943 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,760 And what you have, like, you know, like, I said this in my podcast and I'll say it again, 944 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:53,160 because I think it's important is that I listened to an interview with, uh, Nome Chomsky 945 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:57,560 and Ezra Klein and Ezra Klein challenges Nome Chomsky on, uh, he says, you know, what about 946 00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,140 China and the Uyghurs, right? 947 00:54:00,140 --> 00:54:04,360 And he's like, the Uyghurs are this group of Muslims in Southwest China. 948 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,200 I think, no, Northwest China that are being basically put into camps, right? 949 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,800 And to reeducate and be quite, quote, right? 950 00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,560 But the thing is that the United States has nothing to do with that. 951 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:18,280 Nor do they have the power to change anything unless they were to decide to go to war with 952 00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:19,280 China. 953 00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,240 And that's just basically a geopolitical, you cannot do it. 954 00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:26,120 Like, it's just, it was a nightmare that you could, you, and, and that would, that could send 955 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:31,080 us into literal world war of, uh, a, a, and like, and definitely trade wars. 956 00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:32,480 We just don't have the power. 957 00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:38,840 But we fund Israel to an extent that they would be essentially, uh, harmless without our, 958 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:39,840 without our aid. 959 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,640 And so there's a, there's a huge difference between the ways in which we can kind of morally 960 00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:50,640 lambast China for being, uh, you know, for being horrible and funding an actual state 961 00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:58,200 that is doing things that you could, um, say border on, uh, you know, at least mass murder 962 00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:03,360 if not, um, intense displacement of an oppressed brown people, right? 963 00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:04,360 Like, it's crazy. 964 00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:08,520 So anyways, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very passionate about it because I've actually been sitting 965 00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,200 on this for like a decade and I just got very educated on it. 966 00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:16,280 Um, but yeah, there's no, I don't think there's any room to accuse people of anti-Semitism 967 00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,360 when they talk about Palestine and Israel. 968 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:23,680 It's just a, we're, it's a humanitarian issue that I think it's the, the, the way that I see 969 00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,800 this and the how I'm seeing it and to spring it back to black, right? 970 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:32,560 Is because it's, I feel and the, the, the, the, the level of omission, if you're talking 971 00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:33,560 about it, right? 972 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:39,080 Honestly, I don't know how many people in the United States that aren't directly affected, 973 00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:44,160 but who are absolutely, uh, affected by this level of white supremac culture that's actually 974 00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:50,400 about, we're watching genocide in real time and we're funding it in real time and, and looking 975 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:55,280 at the parallels of what you were just saying, even to talk about, you can't really say, 976 00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,960 you know, talking about the experience of indigenous people in this country, the experience 977 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:03,600 of black people in this country right now, like honestly, we can't talk about it directly 978 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,200 because then it might mean this and might mean that, but does that mean we just don't 979 00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:07,800 make the truth that's actually happening? 980 00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:13,200 Is it too complex to just, it's too complex to just like drop the whole subject and be 981 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:14,880 like we're not doing that right now? 982 00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,440 Because that's the, the whole, that's the argument that's happening right now with the whole 983 00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,680 Asian hate bill and the black hate, like, you don't hate bill. 984 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:28,560 Oh, it's just too complex to, to address creating a bill that's an anti-hate bill for black 985 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,280 people is too complex, but why is that? 986 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:36,120 So the idea that is too complex is what you just described as the United States being so 987 00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:42,480 monetarily involved in, is really maintaining what their behavior means, maintaining the 988 00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,800 military status is what it's so complex about. 989 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:50,920 It's not really that complex, it's about money and it's always money over people and the 990 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:55,720 whole idea about it when we're talking about this is not money over people, this is people, 991 00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:57,040 this is humanity. 992 00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:01,560 I feel like the more that we talk about all these different states of this kind of, this 993 00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:06,480 kind of up people that's happening around the world, it's that, it boils down to that 994 00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:12,080 same complexity, money over, money over people, money over people, money over people, and 995 00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:17,400 the people are screaming, this is humanity, and the structures are screaming, this is necessary. 996 00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,760 This is a very evil, right? 997 00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:25,000 And so, and the problem with it is with the omission of the, with the omission talking about 998 00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,760 the democratic state is the, is the goal, right? 999 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:34,800 The omission of the truth of this is, is, is, is, is what allows the institution to continue 1000 00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:40,360 and the, and for us who are trying to champion humanity, I mean, I don't know how many people 1001 00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,240 when they graduate high school can tell you what panel sign is. 1002 00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:44,240 You understand? 1003 00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:45,240 Absolutely. 1004 00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,200 One of the, I was literally, so I'm 38 now, I was, it was like my second year back at school 1005 00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:54,800 in community college and, and some, and I was just, I actively pursued figuring it out 1006 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,760 because I saw something on TV and I was like, this doesn't, this, this, that, it was on 1007 00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:00,800 the news, they were talking about Israel, Palestine. 1008 00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:02,600 I did not understand what they were saying. 1009 00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,440 Now I understand what they were saying is essentially they're trying to minimize the, the, 1010 00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:07,440 the, the conflict. 1011 00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:08,440 Right. 1012 00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,480 And so, and, and I was like, this doesn't make sense. 1013 00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:14,520 And then someone came in and talked about Israel, Palestine for like 20 minutes and I was like, 1014 00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,280 oh, that makes a little bit more sense. 1015 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,240 And then I saw that that person was giving a talk. 1016 00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,240 So I went, I saw, they're talking. 1017 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,120 This was this, this actually was really great. 1018 00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:28,680 Just, this blonde white woman that was using her privilege to go into Israel and fight 1019 00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:33,920 for the human rights of Palestinian people that were being held. 1020 00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:38,440 Now, there is some wildness to Hamas. 1021 00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,200 That's kind of something that people will always bring up. 1022 00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:47,460 But Hamas is this resistance group that feels that their land has been taken and that 1023 00:58:47,460 --> 00:58:55,440 there's no other alternative than giving back the land to Palestinian people. 1024 00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,400 And they're adamant. 1025 00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:58,980 We'll say, right? 1026 00:58:58,980 --> 00:59:01,320 And I think that is -- 1027 00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:06,760 I mean, to me, it's difficult, but I will say, but it was my point. 1028 00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:14,180 I brought that up because she went into Palestine or to Hamas controlled Palestine and was 1029 00:59:14,180 --> 00:59:21,680 fighting for basically the human rights of women and children, essentially. 1030 00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:27,520 And these checkpoints that are incredibly controlled by the Israeli state. 1031 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:29,520 So it's a lot. 1032 00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,120 It's a lot, and it has a lot to do with morality. 1033 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,680 My whole thing is like, you can't switch morality. 1034 00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:37,680 You can't switch it in and out. 1035 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:39,760 You can't switch morality for humanity. 1036 00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,880 And then at one point, it's not in the other point in humanity. 1037 00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:49,640 It's like, you know, that whole -- it is complicated because you can't take out the behavior of 1038 00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:54,240 oppressed people and try to say, well, you need to act in this way so that we can have 1039 00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,720 this simple conversation as I have my knee on your neck, right? 1040 00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,440 You're going to get something like Hamas that's going to fight back. 1041 01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:06,200 And it doesn't -- and then it needs to -- it's just like -- anyway, like you said, this can 1042 01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:10,400 be a conversation that goes on for hours and hours and hours because it is complex. 1043 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:20,920 But my idea -- this idea that the conversation -- just like the idea that this has been going 1044 01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,760 on for all of my life and all of your life, right? 1045 01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:34,640 I remember my -- our dad and mom, like having conversations about Israel and the Jewish 1046 01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,160 this and Jewish dad and Israel this and Israel that. 1047 01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:41,400 And when I was very little, I had no idea what they were talking about, but it was very 1048 01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:42,400 contentious. 1049 01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:43,400 I know that, right? 1050 01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:44,400 And I never -- 1051 01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:49,800 Yeah, it is -- and there's -- and I learned a lot from Shadin. 1052 01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:56,320 You know, there was 1948 is essentially the -- the UN creates the Israeli state on Palestinian 1053 01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:02,080 land and essentially designates that a large part of that land to the Jewish people so that 1054 01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,040 they could resettle there because of antisemitism, basically, in Europe and obviously the Holocaust 1055 01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:07,040 and these things. 1056 01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:14,160 And so there's -- there's that -- but in then in 1967, there's kind of an evolution, a 1057 01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,560 giving of more power to the Israeli state. 1058 01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:24,560 And so I mean, so on my -- on my -- on my Instagram site, if you want to go there, there's -- it's 1059 01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:28,800 the power of ideas, but all underscore between the power of the news. 1060 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:33,360 But there's a picture, I just want to say, that there's a picture and it shows how the 1061 01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:39,640 land has been taken from Palestine since the -- since it's been given to Israeli. 1062 01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,360 And you can just kind of see, like, but people lived there, you know what I'm saying? 1063 01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:44,360 Like -- 1064 01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:46,360 I mean, that's what I'm trying to say is like -- 1065 01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:54,520 the British Empire put that movement in and then when it got complicated, they threw it to 1066 01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:55,520 the UN. 1067 01:01:55,520 --> 01:02:02,160 And my thing is, is like, the British Empire, again, you know how white folks do, put in this 1068 01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:06,640 -- you just go put some people in some other people's land and be like, y'all going to do this? 1069 01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,040 Like you can't -- there are people there. 1070 01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,680 There's a whole -- there was a whole damn thing going on before you decided this was going 1071 01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:18,280 to be -- this was the humanity move to do to help them, you know, survive this anti-Semitism 1072 01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,680 attack and then put them on you and then all of a sudden -- I mean, it's just like -- it's 1073 01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:22,680 just so -- 1074 01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,360 It's also important, I mean, like -- so I just want to go back to things. 1075 01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:31,680 First of all, if you -- there's another book that you -- that if you read, it can help kind 1076 01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:36,080 of give context to this era, which is called Kingsley of King Leopold's Ghost. 1077 01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:42,160 And it's essentially -- it's about Belgium and their colonial takeover of the Congo 1078 01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:48,160 and the rubber trade, but what it does is it shows how all of these powers, you know, British, 1079 01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:53,200 the British, France, Belgium, all these white colonial European nations basically went into 1080 01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:57,160 all of these, you know, specifically Africa and just drew it up like a pie. 1081 01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:59,160 And they said, you're going to get this, you're going to get that, you're going to get this, 1082 01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:04,160 and one of the things that I didn't kind of realize is that they also did that with Palestine. 1083 01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:08,560 And so -- and then they -- so there's just -- there's that piece, but we've been talking about 1084 01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:09,560 this for a while. 1085 01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,560 So I want to say this, give my -- give my pocket a little bit. 1086 01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:18,560 This was probably the most, I would say, important episode that I did where I felt like I was putting my -- 1087 01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:22,560 putting my reputation, if I have a reputation, on the line for something that I really, really care about. 1088 01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:27,560 I do try and talk about interesting and difficult conversations, but I don't -- 1089 01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:32,560 I don't -- this was like one where I was very fearful of, you know, what, you know, 1090 01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:36,560 if colleagues heard this and criticized me and maybe accused me of being an arithmetic 1091 01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:40,560 because of the thing that I'm even bringing it up, because actually there was a teacher in our department, 1092 01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:45,560 but he's got tenure that brought this up a few years ago and students complained and he almost got fired 1093 01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:49,560 even though he had tenure because, you know, he got blamed for being, you know, and he's -- 1094 01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:50,560 - I'm not a committee, yeah. 1095 01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:53,560 - And it's just like bringing this up, but at the same time, I just want to say, I don't -- 1096 01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:58,560 it's a lot of the time, it's like me and you talking about astrology and like just laughing a lot. 1097 01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:03,560 Like this week's episode is about Dungeons and Dragons with like my boy Mitch, who's like the widest, do live, 1098 01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:09,560 but I love him and he's like, you know, we talk about MMA and like sharing imaginary worlds and stuff, 1099 01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:17,560 so if you think -- so I go -- I kind of try and keep it a broad array of things. 1100 01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:21,560 And you brought it up, so we're talking about it and I get fired up. 1101 01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:24,560 I can get fired up about anything, but definitely fired up about this. 1102 01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,560 - I feel like I'm not doing a good job. 1103 01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:31,560 Like you have me on your podcast, like on a regular, and I need to have your mind on a regular. 1104 01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:35,560 We just need to like -- I need to schedule you like every last Sunday it's going to be brother and sister time. 1105 01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:37,560 Like we're just going to call it sibling corner or something. 1106 01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:39,560 I don't even know what we can do. 1107 01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:45,560 We can just get on and just like start talking and just let people hear how crazy we go from idea to idea 1108 01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,560 and you have no idea what's happening next. 1109 01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:52,560 - I mean, I literally -- I create -- you don't really look at the Google Docs. 1110 01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:53,560 - [laughs] 1111 01:04:53,560 --> 01:05:00,560 - But I create a Google Doc for me so that I can create some sort of structure 1112 01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:05,560 to the podcast because especially with you, because I know we can go out there. 1113 01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,560 I mean, even in the conversation that we're having now, I realize that there's like multiple threads. 1114 01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,560 I'm like, "Damn, I didn't finish that pot. I didn't finish that pot." 1115 01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:13,560 - But you know, that's how we do. 1116 01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:14,560 That's how we do. 1117 01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:15,560 - Who is how we do? 1118 01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,560 - We're both Mercury and Pisces and just go on. 1119 01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:22,560 - Okay, look, now that you brought up the dishality, okay, you know how black girl for your team does. 1120 01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:25,560 Everyone who's listening again, thank you for following me. 1121 01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:29,560 - Honestly, you guys are strong people. 1122 01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:35,560 - So, and I did put some stuff about Power of Ideas because you're not on the Facebook thing 1123 01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,560 but there's two live icons here. 1124 01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:43,560 We're in the portal of Zoom and I'm watching the Facebook Zoom too. 1125 01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:45,560 So it's like happening at the same time. 1126 01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:49,560 - So I'm doing -- if you see me typing it because people are speeding me a commenting. 1127 01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:50,560 - I see. 1128 01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,560 - But I'm sorry, I'm typing it up something. 1129 01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:56,560 But anyway, when we're done, I'm gonna put your whole -- 1130 01:05:56,560 --> 01:06:01,560 You can give me that link so I can put it into the comments so people can just click it and go to the Power of Ideas. 1131 01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:04,560 So, there's that, but astrology. 1132 01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:10,560 Okay, so what's really funny is that -- I don't know if it's that funny, but we're both Pisces. 1133 01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:13,560 And I -- okay, I talked about astrology ever so often. 1134 01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:17,560 And generally, it's my lowest viewed -- viewed up. 1135 01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:19,560 - It's my lowest view. 1136 01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:23,560 - People are listening to you because they want to talk about -- they want to talk about blackness. 1137 01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:26,560 - What is the experience of a black girl from Eugene? I mean, spread up, I get it. 1138 01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:27,560 - That's what I'm saying. 1139 01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:28,560 - Just don't. 1140 01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:34,560 - And this is the part that makes me frustrated with that is because black girls from -- black girls -- 1141 01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,560 they are astrologers. They do astrology. 1142 01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:46,560 We do these things. It's not all about the depression and/or deprivation of my life walking through the storage, 1143 01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:48,560 talking about white supremacy all the time. 1144 01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:53,560 Sometimes I talk about sex and dating and astrology. 1145 01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:57,560 There's life-ish-hapity outside of white people's white supremacy. 1146 01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:02,560 And so sometimes I wish -- not that I wish, because I just do it. 1147 01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:09,560 And it's the -- if the podcast or the episode of the radio has a lower viewing at that time, 1148 01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:15,560 that's okay, because what I'm trying to teach in my education classes is that white people need to focus -- 1149 01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:21,560 like check themselves on their -- on their need for deprivation of black people. 1150 01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:28,560 And they need to start if you're really concerned or really want to be an ally ship or really just want to be a human being to another person. 1151 01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:32,560 Understand them in their wellness. Understand them in their everyday normal. 1152 01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:37,560 Like because as long as you're othering an experience of mine, although there is an experience I'm having, 1153 01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:44,560 it takes away from the fact that I can just be here and put my underwear and my pants on and my jeans on and my one leg at a time, 1154 01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:49,560 like you do, you know, I worry about my hair, I worry about if I'm gaining weight, I worry about if I exercise today, 1155 01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:57,560 I worry about if I am -- but like it's not all about like going into the world with my black shield on and fighting white supremacy all day long. 1156 01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:02,560 Matter of fact, it's so embodied in what I do, I don't think about it, like white people think about it. 1157 01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:08,560 Like white people see the black person coming in the room and they're like, "Oh, there's a black person in the room, especially in the Pacific Northwest." 1158 01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:13,560 Me, I'm walking into a space that's always white. Like I walk outside my house is always white, so that's how I do it. 1159 01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:22,560 So I mean, we can have a conversation about, I know probably the most well-known black male astrologer, 1160 01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:30,560 and me, Kim and I had had a conversation about blackness and astrology and specifically black men in astrology, 1161 01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:34,560 and you know, we can have a larger conversation about that, I think that people would like it. 1162 01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:41,560 What I would say is this, I think that astrology is this thing that is stigmatized heavily, right? 1163 01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:51,560 And so the research that I'm doing on astrology right now with my PhD program essentially is looking at why it is stigmatized. 1164 01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:56,560 Is it because that it's wrong? And what I've found is that nobody can really prove that it's wrong. 1165 01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:05,560 Nobody can really prove that it's right, but you know, like it's not, so the reason that people don't do it actually has much more to do with social stigma. 1166 01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:14,560 What I mean by that is that it's, so white people engage in astrology will say, this is not, I don't necessarily know if it's true, I think it is. 1167 01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:24,560 White people are engaged in astrology more because they have the privilege not to have to worry about, like, oh, I'm into astrology. 1168 01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:31,560 And if somebody was like, oh gosh, you know, like Becky's into astrology, it doesn't matter because Becky has owned so many different privileges. 1169 01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:39,560 But if Aisha says, you're taking more of a risk because you have all of these, you know, if you think about your identity intersectionally, 1170 01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:46,560 do you have the levels of oppression that you have, like, you have to, you're not going to choose another stigma. 1171 01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,560 You're not going to choose another identity. 1172 01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:59,560 So, and that's, and that is, I think one of the reasons why black people might stay away from it, it's not that they don't believe it, or even if they like it, they're interested in it. 1173 01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:02,560 They're not going to admit that they are interested in, they're not going to talk about it. 1174 01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,560 And one of the things that they do is that they avoid it, right? 1175 01:10:07,560 --> 01:10:18,560 And this is kind of something that I'm looking at, like, why do people, who, rather than looking at some sort of natural connection between those that do it, are interested in it and like it, I'm looking at those who don't. 1176 01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:24,560 And why they might do that? Because usually it's a, it's a, yeah, and there's another piece, which is that. 1177 01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:30,560 So, and this, I'm actually looking at this in the context of the LGBTQ+ community as well as women, specifically. 1178 01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:41,560 And essentially, that they're, that people that are interested in astrology, one of the kind of emerging stereotypes is that they are, quote unquote, irrational. 1179 01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:50,560 And so, and, and so if you are irrational, right? What is one of the most common stereotypes that men use against women? That they are emotional, that they are irrational, right? 1180 01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:52,560 And talk about black women. 1181 01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:58,560 Being labeled, being labeled irrational, you avoid things that are also labeled irrational, right? 1182 01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:08,560 And that's, and that's probably also true for black people. Black people have to, have to perform at a higher level of rationality so that white people take them seriously. 1183 01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:27,560 If they are, if they care about being, being, you know, treated some sort of way by white people. So what you can do is just avoid astrology in general and avoid saying that you like astrology so that you don't, that you don't, that you don't confirm the stereotype for white people or whoever the dominant person, you know, kind of. 1184 01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:42,560 And I love all that, everything that you just said and I, and I, because I have this conversation with black and brown, indigenous people too is that, that veil of white supremac culture as if that we have to perform in that way and understand that astrology is an ancient situation. 1185 01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:45,560 This is not coming from white folks period in the first place. 1186 01:11:45,560 --> 01:12:04,560 So again, back to that omission of the story of back to that, to that, having this idea that, that we don't have the whole truth. This is our embodiment of the connection that black and brown people have had ever since the inception of time, like it's been, it's always been there. 1187 01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:23,560 You know, I mean, the pyramids are built on based on the relationship to the stars, right? And so this idea that that is something that is, like you said, stigmatized in, in, in the way that you just explain that whole idea is basically this veil of white supremac culture and how we have to behave. 1188 01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:35,560 And therefore, then at the same time still missing the benefits of what was originally created in our, in our, I don't want to say in our image, but still for our benefit. Why are you trying to do that to me, man? 1189 01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:46,560 Thank you. Still trying to, it's still, it's ours. It's ours. It's another part of the omitted story of our dynamic self, right? 1190 01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:55,560 There's nothing that is black and white black folks have been doing it, name it black folks have been doing it ever ever since brown people and different people have been doing it ever since. 1191 01:12:55,560 --> 01:13:06,560 So for us to come back to it and have to be reintroduced to it and then have to like again hide it so that we can be, you know, be accepted into the find say that I'm an astrologer. 1192 01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:13,560 I like, I told you like, once, this podcast, we won't have that many views for this, they will stop already and be like, okay, they're good and true astrologers. 1193 01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:32,560 And I'm not saying everyone has to love it. Obviously, obviously, you all have everyone has their own thing, but it's just that permanence of is that thing is that idea like yoga is for white girls like, you know, is a basic white that girl to do since when has that been like, you know, but that's like if you go, oh, you're a yogi. 1194 01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:45,560 The first thing you think of is that super slim, you know, what girl with the with the little candy tank top and the little G and she's got a little blonde ponytail and she's got a little mat as exactly what people think of when you go, she's a yogi, right? 1195 01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:52,560 Or there are yogi. That's what you think. And so that that that level of of disconnection for me is like, that's what I'm saying. 1196 01:13:52,560 --> 01:14:12,560 Like, let's not let's not omit the history. That's not omit the story. And actually, a matter of fact, going into Juneteenth, we won't talk about this now. Like I'm like fighting for the idea of like, please remember that this is not like trendy right now. This has been going on in this little bit of town of brazolio, Texas for like, I would know how long. 1197 01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:33,560 You know, rinsy families like directly involved in the inception of Juneteenth. Yeah, Charles Brown, Charles Brown, like we don't need the brown rinsy fans. Yeah, it's directly related. Even the land is family to live on as part of this wavelength they were given. Like that was yeah. So anyway, it's crazy. So anyway, and I. 1198 01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:46,560 I'm trying to think, no, I guess you are like, did you ever go to Juneteenth celebration like when we were in Texas, but probably not. But like you were celebrating back then like, you know, I mean when it was just a Brazilian, Texas thing. 1199 01:14:46,560 --> 01:15:00,560 So I was one of people that remember like, let's not make it into like a, you know, into like a, sink of the mile situation. But anyway, so I want you to talk. I want because you have been studying astrology and then you really sparked it. 1200 01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:14,560 I've always been like the person who tries to figure out like I've always learned heard about astrology. I've always loosely understood astrology. Like most people do. I think I've always like kind of kind of 1201 01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:24,560 looked at behavior through astrology because dad always did that. And so when I grew up with him, that's something that was always like, oh, you're so sneaky. 1202 01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:35,560 It was like the Chinese zodiacal kind of descriptions of my behavior. And that. And so I'd always like look at those things. But now that you've gotten so passionate involved in it, I've gotten more interested in it. 1203 01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:47,560 So I've read along with it. And now I'm understanding it much better. But I don't understand at all in the in the context that you do. But I am getting to the point where I can start to see aspects and people where I'm just like, that is super marzy. 1204 01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:56,560 Like I don't say that my favorite part of astrology is when it emerges in front of you. And you're like, ooh, they just did the thing. 1205 01:15:56,560 --> 01:16:10,560 Sometimes I'm always like when I see people like going throughout the day and I'm like, I also use behavior, right? So I'm like crossing this over. And I'm also looking at how I don't know how to read that in a chart yet. But I know I'm seeing it. 1206 01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:20,560 And that's just the way I learned is like, how is that Mars, like where is that Mars showing up? How is it coming through trauma? How do I recognize it in the chart? Like that kind of thing. 1207 01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:30,560 But I'm trying to see these things. And so it's very, it's complex. And it's not, it's not your weekly astrology shit. It's really not that. So there's a whole bunch more to it. 1208 01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:43,560 So as we're talking about a whole bunch more to it, Ian and I were on Power of Ideas yesterday. And we were talking about astrology. And he brought up Astro cartography. 1209 01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:57,560 Astro cartography. And I was like, hold up. Wait a minute. What? Because I have been thinking in my life and everything happens for a reason. Where should I be going in my life? Where am I moving to in the next two years? 1210 01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:12,560 I got to like expand and in your in your podcast, you asked about travel. And it was just so in serendipitous that you were like, oh, yeah, I've been kind of dabbling this after cartography. And I was like, huh? So it all kind of for me like linked up. And so I was like, tell me more, tell me more. 1211 01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:41,560 But I just want people, I want to have this conversation about about astrology is very little because of where like now in the last 15 minutes that seems reasonable for people to listen and hour and a half in. 1212 01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:58,560 Yeah, the people who still listen to me heart, heart, you guys be hanging in hard. So I try to get to know, I get list. I can see how many people listen to, but I want to like on YouTube. You can see when people stop listening and I want that. I want those. 1213 01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:06,560 Right. I know I feel like I need to shorten them. But people like, I love it. I love it. Keep going on. I like the platform. I think I listened to long form stuff. 1214 01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:18,560 And so I like the longer the better. And because I can listen to it in multiple days or whatever. But yeah, I'm starting to get into Astro to to the astrology podcast. I'm I'm Chris now. 1215 01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:31,560 It's not boring to me like he used to kill me. The monotone killed me. But now I find it. He's good because he got the he's like dry with you know. And he's dry high. 1216 01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:45,560 So the last the last forecast episode, he did this thing where he was talking about how they further 300th episode. They made a cake. That was the that was a chart. Yeah. And how they ate it in a specific way. 1217 01:18:45,560 --> 01:19:00,560 And if you I mean, you got to know a little bit about astrology for it to be funny. But I was dying laughing. But just like it's so it is a specific sort of humor. But and he does sound like a robot for a while. But yeah, I highly recommend at least the forecast episodes. 1218 01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:13,560 No, it's and they're really good. Yeah, they're really good. And I yeah, now I've gotten past his like. And I was like, why does he do that? Like I've gotten past it. I've gotten past it. And he and when I tell the joke, I always laugh. 1219 01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:27,560 I'm like, Oh, look, Chris. Don't joke joke. Like it because it's like so hard to follow until you until you get it. And sometimes I the personalities of cat of of. Oh, God, why can't of why can't I think for a name? So he's what's your first name? 1220 01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:54,560 Oh, Kelly Kelly, a book called Kathy of Kelly and the other dude, the personalities that go, I think they're hilarious, but they're work. They were. It is definitely a show that you have to get used to and then once you're fun. Like like you and me, we're just funny. Like we're just very funny. Like we are funny people. But the. But they are not necessarily funny until you get to know them a little bit. And then you're in on the jokes and you're in on the like little family. And it feels really fun. 1221 01:19:54,560 --> 01:20:10,560 And you know, I mean, actually even respond to me and Chris have had some back and forth. I was almost on there already. Yeah, I didn't tell you about that. But yeah, yeah, essentially I think that sometime in probably the next few years, I'm going to go on there and we're going to talk about my research, which is pretty exciting. But that's super exciting. 1222 01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:22,560 That's super exciting. So who knows? But I mean, we did recently. We exchanged emails. We have different. I think you I feel like he's like still all of us like still down to like super earth. And he's like huge. And he's still. 1223 01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:34,560 I feel like down the earth. He just got all kinds of things going on to tell you, you know, my my astrology crush Jessica Lignato. I'm definitely going to be on her show. Like I she's going to be on my not going to be on her show. She's going to be on my show. 1224 01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:49,560 I just feel that that we talk often. Like I actually like I'm always writing. She's always writing back. And we always have a back and forth about her cat. Like so pretty soon she's I'm just going to go the correct route and be like, Hey, it's me. I need you to be on my show. 1225 01:20:49,560 --> 01:21:09,560 I want to see you. I want to talk about her LBBG, her LBG, the distance with Jewish with Canada with because I want her to talk to me about what that means for her. Just like being more about like her background. I want because every time I listen to her interviews. 1226 01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:17,560 I'm so surprised how much people don't know about her background because she talks about it. But they don't really listen to her about her. And I want her to talk to me about her experience. 1227 01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:32,560 And that we can align it together. And I feel that it's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You would say I mean like she's she's one of those people that you know she she's open. But you have to listen to her lies to know. Yeah. And you do listen to her. 1228 01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:58,560 I mean, you know, I'm a fan. She's actually speaking of lying. She is one of my most most interesting is because she does not she's capricorn AF. She brings the she brings the real and but she but and I love it. Right. We've talked about this. I love it. But I I would never in a million years do what she does because in some ways I think it's too. 1229 01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:11,560 It like puts people into a box without giving them any kind of agency sometimes like this is your astrology. This is who you are. Right. And and and and but it works for her and people really resonate. 1230 01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:19,560 I mean, I mean, I resonate with it. But I couldn't pull it off. I guess it's a better way to say I think that pull it off in her way. 1231 01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:37,560 She I mean, you and I talked about how I think that she's a negative person, honestly. And she's actually said that she's negative. She's like, I'm negative. I'm gonna give it to you. Capricorn. But I but what I also think that she does in a really good way is like being able to give you like do what she I think she does. I think she's like do what you want, man. 1232 01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:49,560 But this is what I'm saying. She to me, I feel like she's always like I can tell you what to do or not you can pick it up or don't like she I'm just hilarious. I mean, sometimes the shit that she says I'm just like rolling on the ground because she's. 1233 01:22:49,560 --> 01:23:00,560 And I actually have a little intimidation by talking to her because she's so capricorn. I want to make sure that I'm actually way more burgo when I talk to her because I'm going to be like I need to have my shouldn't point. 1234 01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:19,560 She's a triple capricorn. That means that she, you know, it'll put your straw, a job blast, but that wouldn't that would it would oppose your your send it. So she's teaching you something very specific about how you present to the world. And it probably feels intimidating. 1235 01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:28,560 But this is the thing I know that I actually'm going if I talk to her, I have to be specific because she's got no mean be like you need to be more specific and I would be like. 1236 01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:33,560 Especially if you've heard your chart, which I think that you told me that you she does. 1237 01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:37,560 I'll be like, is my chart telling me what's up? 1238 01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:39,560 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. 1239 01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:42,560 Because if I trust you, I believe that you'll put your mind out. 1240 01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:48,560 I believe like the commission thing that we talked about from the very beginning. If I trust you, I don't know why I trust Jessica and Mario. 1241 01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:54,560 We're like besties. She doesn't even know me, but like I feel like if I trust you, you can give me the bad parts. 1242 01:23:54,560 --> 01:24:02,560 That and I trust that you'll do it in a way that you understand will be most kind to me. But if you don't give me the bad parts and I trust you, I feel like you've lied to me. 1243 01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:07,560 And now I cannot trust you because if anyone can give me the bad parts is the people that I trust. 1244 01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:10,560 Like I want you know what I love that. 1245 01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:20,560 So I mean, we've talked about this with Robin to which is that like she, you know, I referred someone to her and then she was like, don't ever refer someone like that. 1246 01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:26,560 Because the person was like, I don't want to know anything bad. And Robin was like, that's not how astrology works. 1247 01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:32,560 Yeah, I mean, like, and so, and I was like, yeah, my bad is so, but yeah, we're not like that, right? 1248 01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:39,560 It's like, we want to know, I want, tell me, tell me the dirt, tell me the dirt. I can take it. I can handle this. Some people can't tell me who can't. 1249 01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:41,560 So you got to admit. 1250 01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:49,560 So let me, let me just go back to the astro cartography because I think that you want to get it this is where we finished. Yeah. So like, yeah, just preface. 1251 01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:53,560 I don't know a ton about astro cartography, but I am absolutely fascinated by it. 1252 01:24:53,560 --> 01:25:07,560 And I'm fascinated by it because of the, the way that I learned of it. So I got in, so I got into astrology because I went, I had like a really rough, you know, 28 to about 33 was a really rough years for me. 1253 01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:17,560 And I decided, I think as I was finishing my first, my B.A. to go to Hawaii. And, and so, by myself, I just decided I was like, I'm going to go to Hawaii. 1254 01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:26,560 I'm going to, you know, do some hikes. I'm going to just have some, some like meditation time for me. It was a, it was a, it was a present to myself. 1255 01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:35,560 And I got there, got off the plane and immediately met this person who was very interesting, but very strange. And we, we ended up having dinner. 1256 01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:43,560 And we kind of got along, but kind of didn't get along. And then she was like, I'm going to clean up these dishes and then you're going to go. And I was like, Oh, okay. 1257 01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:51,560 And I was like, I'll look, but I guess I'm saying for the dishes bar. And so I sat down on their couch and they had a book on the table. 1258 01:25:51,560 --> 01:26:01,560 And it was called human design. And so I was like, what's this human design? And so that human design is kind of a, like a, kind of astrology. It's like not, it's like astrology adjacent. 1259 01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:07,560 And so I was like, she was like, Oh, it's like a, kind of form of astrology. You want me to read your human design chart. I like sure. 1260 01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:19,560 So sat down and, you know, long story short, she read me my entire chart. It blew my mind. I spent the entire time in Hawaii reading this book that she had, that she had, that she loaned me. 1261 01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:28,560 And that was it. I have forever been since into astrology, almost obsessively. 1262 01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:36,560 And that was, you know, five-ish years ago. I mean, my, literally, my life literally changed from them. I mean, it's not like, Oh, it changed my life. 1263 01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:48,560 It actually changed my life in ways that I cannot, like, people will be like, Oh, you've been studying astrology for a long time. I'm like, No, no, not that long, actually, like 2016, that I even learned what astrology was. 1264 01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:54,560 And actually, it wasn't even astrology that I was interested in until about six months later. So it was a human design. 1265 01:26:54,560 --> 01:27:10,560 Yeah, that's a lot of preface to the, yeah. But what I, what I look, so astro-partarmy jumps in because I learned astrology and then I learned of this thing called astro-partography, which basically says that on a day that you were born, there's different energies that are going through the world. 1266 01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:21,560 And different, so like if you're, you know, in astrology, the sun, the moon, Mars, Jupiter, they all mean different things. Saturn, they all mean different things. And where it is in your chart means a different thing. 1267 01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:37,560 And this is saying that there's a Jupiter line, there's a Mars line, there's a Venus line. And if you go to that place, maybe you're going to have the energy of that planet, you know, in your life more, right? 1268 01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:56,560 Yeah, so basically that's kind of the, that's kind of the gist. And it's different for everybody. So I looked up mine and my, and so there's one in particular, it's not actually a planet, it's called your, it's a north note, north note, south note access is a point that is related to the sun in the moon. 1269 01:27:56,560 --> 01:28:24,560 And so like, and, and eclipses actually are a big part of the north note, south note. So my north note went directly through a, why specifically, why win? And so, so if you look at my thing and your north note is a representation of, you know, kind of what is increasing in your life, but also if you think about it in more Google language, it's like where you're, what you're supposed to learn in this life and your south note is kind of your past lives are the things that you are decreasing in your life. 1270 01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:44,560 And so if I, and I'm in a query, smooth, and that they're known for being into astrology. And so it's really interesting to me that I went on this vacation and it was in my north note, what's supposed to be increasing in my life, what am I supposed to be learning, what's my trajectory and really changed checking it live. So I told, I told you about that last night. 1271 01:28:44,560 --> 01:29:03,560 And I was curious about why for you and like maybe where where you could go that would be helpful. Yeah, I mean, Hawaii for me has popped up. I've been, has popped up several different times in my life. And every time I'm here, there is definitely momentum in my life. 1272 01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:21,560 I've never been like, I'm just here chilling. It's always been like a, I'm here, I'm chilling, but I'm here on a very specific life trajectory. There's, there's something is happening in my life that is generally in transition almost every time, even when I lived here, it was like that. 1273 01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:32,560 It was a massive transition in my life when I was in Hawaii, even now as I'm here, this massive transition is happening in my life. When we were here last time, it was almost like a preview. This is a massive transition is going on. 1274 01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:49,560 So something about a Wahoo, but maybe not. I mean, I don't know. And the transition that's happening that I'm looking forward to, and I mean looking forward as I'm like looking ahead is that, you know, Barbara, who is my youngest daughter is 17 and she's going to be a senior in the fall. And she absolutely is going away to call it. 1275 01:29:49,560 --> 01:30:08,560 You know, all, all things the same. She will be off to college. And that means I'm an empty nester. And I have to get out of Eugene. So I travel time travel. I was yet right relocation time. And so I'm, I'm really like, there's lots of factors. 1276 01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:24,560 You know, we're thinking about because Jasmine, who is my middle or who is my oldest daughter and mom of my grandchildren wants to come along with me so that we're so that not that we will be living together, but that we're in the same area, you know, so that I'm with the grandkids and she has that support. 1277 01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:31,560 So she is like, you know, a factor because Anthony, oh my God, will be in kindergarten. 1278 01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:52,560 And one year from now, this is so stupid. Right. So we got to think about his education. All of a sudden, like he's going to be in school. So, so there's a lot, there's some factors, but I'm trying not to like put their factors into my factors. So I'm wanting to be very, I want to be very, very succinct in my travels in a way, because I want it to be meaningful. 1279 01:30:52,560 --> 01:31:07,560 Although, obviously, whatever decisions I make are meaningful in my life. That's how I've learned these things. But so anyway, the cartography was was very interesting to me. So I was like, look at my cartography. He's like, I can't do that in 24 hour. 1280 01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:21,560 I'm also the last one, cartography. So like, I am a kind of a, if it works for you, you didn't do it, but astrology is this one thing where like I am actually strangely a little more of like a skeptic when it comes to certain things. 1281 01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:28,560 But the thing about the photography that I always say I'm skeptical of is that like, you know, to kind of test it out, you have to go a lot of places. 1282 01:31:28,560 --> 01:31:47,560 I mean, you have to have a lot of money. I ain't got no money. I mean, I can just think about, I can just think about the places that I've been. So for example, Pluto went through Santa Barbara, which is where I'm getting my, my, you know, my graduate degree. And the thing is that as much as I have enjoyed the process of getting my PhD, it's been a, it's been a struggle. 1283 01:31:47,560 --> 01:32:02,560 And so Pluto going directly through that is intense. Why on the other hand was an incredibly revelatory changing life changing experience. You know, I have my Venus line. Venus represents love art. 1284 01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:14,560 Went through Florence, which is where I was another place that changed my life. And I went, did my study abroad there. So there's like, I can think about those things, but like, whereas I can look at everybody that I know and ask them for their birth data. 1285 01:32:14,560 --> 01:32:27,560 And then I can see that kind of stuff, submerged. It proves astrology to me in that way. Whereas after a photography is a little more theoretical, it's hard to kind of test it out by going to these different places. I can ask people how they felt, but it's different. 1286 01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:35,560 So, you know, take it all with a grain of salt, do your own stuff. If you've got some money, go travel around, look up your astral photography. But it's hard is I'm not, I'm not a full enough. 1287 01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:38,560 I'm not a believer in astral photography. Yeah, it's more theoretical. 1288 01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:57,560 So, you know, I always be believing until I'm not believing. So this is the thing. I'm always like, let's go. But so, let me, let me try. I have it. Let me try to see if I can, can I just look it up and like, it will, I mean, how would someone like do that? 1289 01:32:57,560 --> 01:33:12,560 Yeah, I mean, I have years up, but I can, we can, so go to, so there's a lot of different websites that you can use the best ones that like astrologers typically use. If you don't want to pay for it, you can go to astro.com. 1290 01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:13,560 Astro beans. 1291 01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:14,560 They do that. 1292 01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:21,560 And let's just astro.com you look that up. And then you're going to go to your, you're going to use the setup of a page. I think you probably already have one. 1293 01:33:21,560 --> 01:33:36,560 You're going to go to this is like a tutorial. There's a, there's a thing that says sections and usually you go with the round one that shows you your natal chart, but you can go to this tab that says special, which is right next to, which is right next to the thing that says round and tap this is around. 1294 01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:40,560 And you can look, you can then you just click on astral map world. 1295 01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:51,560 You can astral map North America astral map astral map South America. So I'll click on the astral map North America. You're actually using or just the West Coast in general. I think it's pretty good for you. 1296 01:33:51,560 --> 01:34:03,560 Your Hawaii is Saturn and Jupiter are going over it. And I think I told you this before we started is that, you know, Saturn, Saturn line, you don't want to go to a Saturn line. That would be hard on you. 1297 01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:14,560 Just like I want to look like I have to be on so if I knew astrology, if I knew Astral photography before I went to UCSB, I probably wouldn't have gone. That's how intense. 1298 01:34:14,560 --> 01:34:23,560 But, but you, because you have Jupiter and Saturn, let's just like test this out. Jupiter is about growth. Saturn is about constraint. 1299 01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:32,560 So you could kind of say that Jupiter and Saturn astral photography lines going over Hawaii would be like constructive growth, right? 1300 01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:43,560 Constructed would be Saturn growth would be would be Jupiter. You could say it's like discipline to learning though. Discipline is Saturn learning is Jupiter. Those would be kind of the things. 1301 01:34:43,560 --> 01:34:58,560 So it's not going to be like you're not just going to be like overflowing with new information and learning all of these different things. It's going to be more like I'm getting some discipline and learning things about myself and my life and discipline and steady and stable ways. 1302 01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:03,560 So that would be, yeah, that would be, that would work. 1303 01:35:03,560 --> 01:35:26,560 Okay, that makes sense. But yeah, anyways, but if you go to that Astral Dings, you, you know, set up a profile and go to special in an Astral map north America, like you're, you have this, your Sun line as well as a moon line going right through Seattle and Eugene and also San Francisco. 1304 01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:28,560 And so that's pretty good. That's pretty good. 1305 01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:36,560 Do I, my dog, the dog, sorry guys, I'm in Hawaii. I'm outside the dogs are happening things in all the dogs. Yeah, rooster. I have a hoodie rooster. 1306 01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:44,560 That was this morning. And I think the dogs were like, yeah, they definitely come about about 30. Yeah. 1307 01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:53,560 So I, yeah, I would love is there anything that you see like just people. I know you didn't really looking steady and I, we will do it together and I, I just interested in seeing. 1308 01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:58,560 Is there anything that popped out for you that you're like, oh, that's interesting that you see your mind just really quickly. 1309 01:35:58,560 --> 01:36:02,560 You have a lot of stuff in Europe. I do. I do. I know. 1310 01:36:02,560 --> 01:36:08,560 A lot of, a lot of, I mean, just I mean, there's like, there's, yeah, yeah, I knew it. You have no idea how, okay, hold on. 1311 01:36:08,560 --> 01:36:19,560 Like a lot of cool things that I would be interested in. If I was you, like, I have, I have some stuff in Italy. And that's always, Italy has been always like a place that is called to me for sure. 1312 01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:25,560 But yours is like, you have, you have like a lot of different places that you could go. I think it's, let me look it up here. 1313 01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:33,560 So, yeah, Italy, specifically Rome is like would be, would be great for you. 1314 01:36:33,560 --> 01:36:40,560 Yeah, Italy is good, but also you see, yeah, kind of like everywhere is changed. 1315 01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:47,560 Yeah, basically like Norway, Denmark, Germany, Switzerland, all through that all the way to Italy. 1316 01:36:47,560 --> 01:36:57,560 So, that was this line here. Yeah, I would probably stay away from France maybe, but, but yeah, and then you have to look at your chart, right? 1317 01:36:57,560 --> 01:37:06,560 So, we know that you have that, that T square. And so any of those things, any of those planets that activate that T square. 1318 01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:11,560 So, like the Sun Moon actually has maybe white jeans challenge for you because the Sun in the moon, you weren't on the full moon. 1319 01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:17,560 And it in the Sun Moon activate that T square. So, that's why I said stay away from France because you have a Neptune line going right through France. 1320 01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:23,560 So, make France enough for you, but, but Germany, Italy, England to a certain extent. 1321 01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:31,560 Spain could be enjoyable, especially like, well, would you say it was enjoyable? 1322 01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:40,560 I don't know. We could talk about it more. There's just like, in particular, I would say like Norway, Denmark, Germany, like Netherlands, Switzerland, Italy. 1323 01:37:40,560 --> 01:37:44,560 And that is kind of that goes north, south like that. All those would probably be. 1324 01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:50,560 Okay. The, the, why you guys heard me like again, if, if asked for a cartography is true, this is how I like to say it. 1325 01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:55,560 Right. That's all you, although I'm definitely a believer in, but I know the parts of it that I really believe in. 1326 01:37:55,560 --> 01:37:57,560 And I know the part. 1327 01:37:57,560 --> 01:37:59,560 But you know, I mean, you can, the astrology is true. This is the thing. 1328 01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:03,560 You can say what you want. I'm already packed my bag. So, this is the thing. 1329 01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:08,560 Like, I, what you, you put it in your nine house. You're ready to, you're ready to go. 1330 01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:18,560 I'm out. So, I mean, honestly, like, this is the reason why I got so like super excited all of a sudden is because I have been having so many. 1331 01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:24,560 I just have all this permission and all of this, like, dealing lately about Europe. 1332 01:38:24,560 --> 01:38:29,560 And I keep thinking, because I'm always talking about like, you know, the history, the story context of why it's a famous culture. 1333 01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:33,560 And I'm like, and I have not done my DNA very purposely. 1334 01:38:33,560 --> 01:38:40,560 And so I'm like, it's, I don't know what it is, but I know I need to go to Italy and or Germany. 1335 01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:46,560 That's when you said that. I was just like, but I knew it was Europe, but Germany and Italy have been like popping up. 1336 01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:51,560 And I'm thinking, Germany don't make no sense because it actually snows and I don't, I don't do that. 1337 01:38:51,560 --> 01:38:57,560 Right. And I was like, I can't possibly be going to Germany and I'm thinking, Italy and I was like, oh, Italy, like, wow, that's insane. 1338 01:38:57,560 --> 01:39:04,560 Can I learn Italian? Like, I just started getting all these little stupid little things. But there was something about it. I was just telling Jasmine. 1339 01:39:04,560 --> 01:39:10,560 I was like, that is where we need to go. Like, I don't know why, but I got to go see Germany. 1340 01:39:10,560 --> 01:39:15,560 I've been getting on my, like, I, that was the first language that I learned was Italian when I went there. 1341 01:39:15,560 --> 01:39:20,560 And like, I've been on my duo, Lingo, I've been kind of slacking lately, but I, you know, I had, I had like a hundred days in a row. 1342 01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:23,560 I'm trying to get better at my Italian. 1343 01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:30,560 I'm definitely going to be trying to go. My goal is, if I can do it next summer, I'd like to go and spend like a month in Italy. 1344 01:39:30,560 --> 01:39:35,560 So you want to, you want to plan it? We can plan it. Although making plans right now, I'm going to a little more career. 1345 01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:41,560 We started just thinking about it. But I feel like I've already been planning this. 1346 01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:51,560 And so I don't think it's like anything, you know, the, the, the retrograde can like, I mean, I'm just going to chill, but I, this is like on going long. 1347 01:39:51,560 --> 01:39:59,560 Like, and I'm kind of thinking about like, you know, maybe we don't talk about this when we get off, but maybe we go before that. 1348 01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:05,560 And I just help out. I'm serious. I got to go. Like I, there's a very big. 1349 01:40:05,560 --> 01:40:11,560 We can talk about it. I actually might be going earlier, but it's, but I'm very hesitant to say any of it because. 1350 01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:12,560 Are you really the first to clip? 1351 01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:17,560 The clips, portals and we're also, you know, we have the eclipse to happen. Got the eclipse is coming up. 1352 01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:23,560 And then all of the mercury retrograde, you know, I'm saying something. And I'm broke. 1353 01:40:23,560 --> 01:40:28,560 Right. I'm trying to say, you know, I told you yesterday, I'm trying to say, say, say, but it's true. 1354 01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:30,560 It's true, it's true. And here I am. Like, let's go. 1355 01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:34,560 All that airy energy that both of us have, want to be like, yeah, let's go. 1356 01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:38,560 I've gone on many, many trips and come back and be like, man, I have no money anymore. 1357 01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:43,560 You know, we kind of have a lot of our success. My towards rising is trying to get stable. 1358 01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:48,560 We don't have to eat. We can live off kale. We can go like I mean, come on. 1359 01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:53,560 You're trying to go to Italy and not eat. I know. What am I talking about right now? 1360 01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:55,560 Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. 1361 01:40:55,560 --> 01:40:56,560 You know what? 1362 01:40:56,560 --> 01:41:03,560 That's all we do. You walk, you literally walk around, eat pasta and bread and drink wine and then just walk to the next place and do the exact same thing. 1363 01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:09,560 It's the best thing ever. Just like walking to place and placing you putting cards in my body. 1364 01:41:09,560 --> 01:41:18,560 Sorry, my sister K. She's frustrated. Okay. All right. You guys in waller, power of ideas. 1365 01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:26,560 Please check this podcast out. It is, it is informative. It is funny. It is thought provoking. 1366 01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:31,560 It will have, it has a lot of information impacting it and it's just really well done. 1367 01:41:31,560 --> 01:41:38,560 And I support it. Obviously, we didn't get really into like, I wanted to talk about some of your guests, but we got, we talked about how you choose your guests. 1368 01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:48,560 But some really great conversations are there and that I have been, I like, I was saying, although my podcast is long form, like I can't hardly listen over two hours unless you're really good. 1369 01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:53,560 And I always like when I get into your podcast, I'm always like, okay, it's been two hours. I'm good. 1370 01:41:53,560 --> 01:41:56,560 Like, it's not really that long, but that's the best compliment I could get. 1371 01:41:56,560 --> 01:42:03,560 Yeah, no, it's like I stay. I stay just like astrology podcast. I stay. I'm like, oh, damn. I've been listening to you for an hour and a half. Okay. 1372 01:42:03,560 --> 01:42:13,560 So anyway, let me, let me, let's say that loud and then I'm going to say I'm going to tell me how loud all I type is in. What is the, yeah. 1373 01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:25,560 Yeah. So, so the power of ideas is just what it's called, but I also like to tell people that for some reason on Spotify, it doesn't come up unless you type in an astrology and sociology podcast. 1374 01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:34,560 So I call it, you know, it's called the power of ideas and astrology and sociology podcast. So if you're having trouble finding it, you just have to type in the part that says, 1375 01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:39,560 "Instrology and sociology podcast." But it's called the power of ideas. If you want to find, I don't have very many followers. 1376 01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:48,560 I just try and update it on my Instagram, my Twitter, but it's usually the power of ideas, but in between the power of ideas, there's an underscore. 1377 01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:58,560 But it should just come up if you, if you, if you, if you have power ideas in mind, especially if you like also search astrology with the power of ideas that you should pop up for your best. 1378 01:42:58,560 --> 01:43:07,560 And why am I looking at it? I don't know how to do this computer thing. Okay, the power, I'm pretty, you know, I got literally like, why am I acting like I don't know how to type right now? 1379 01:43:07,560 --> 01:43:15,560 I sent you a link to that's a, that's a abbreviated link so that you can use it. It's easier to, did you send it? 1380 01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:30,560 I sent it to you. Okay, okay. And next week's episode is Aisha. And we talk and I try everybody's, I try to have Aisha on once a month, even though she doesn't ever have me on her podcast for a year. 1381 01:43:30,560 --> 01:43:41,560 That was a little brother. Yeah. I like to have, I like to have you on because I like to talk about astrology with you because you know a little bit and you're, what your way more like vibrational, what's going on in the world? 1382 01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:49,560 I'm a little bit more, she's, you're a little bit more Pisces. I'm a little bit more, whereas you know, I think our, and we're just talking about what's going on in the sky. 1383 01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:58,560 And this, this, this next episode we do, we talk about what we, what are we talking about? We talked about Saturn Square, you're honest, we talked about Jupiter moving into Pisces and we talked about the Mercury retrograde. 1384 01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:06,560 So, uh, those are, you know, if you, if you want, if you want to, if you can't get enough Aisha, you can get the Black Girl from Eugene, come over to the power of ideas. 1385 01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:21,560 It's a whole different, it's a whole different Aisha. Okay. It's a whole different Aisha. I'm going to tell the story. I'm going to say, I'm like, I was like, hey, you want to use this episode as the dual episode and you're like, yeah, let's do that. And then you were like, actually, I don't want to know. 1386 01:44:21,560 --> 01:44:26,560 So if you want to know some dirt, why are you doing that? 1387 01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:37,560 I know exactly what it was that you didn't want people to know. I never, I hardly ever edit my podcast. I hardly ever edit my podcast, but now I gotta edit that because. 1388 01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:41,560 Don't go. Never mind. 1389 01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:52,560 No, no, it's true. It's true. It's definitely a different side is I definitely get comfortable and just be like my mouth just be running. So anyway, all right. Ian, you know, I love you. 1390 01:44:52,560 --> 01:45:06,560 Thank you so much for coming on my show. And I think we need, I need to like, we look at how I do it and put you in on a regular. And I kind of think it's like wandering mind like I, because I like that we can just get away and we talk about something and we can go on and on. 1391 01:45:06,560 --> 01:45:15,560 And we don't always agree, which is amazing. And we, it's so funny because we love each other so much that we try to be like super sensitive about how not to be like, you're wrong, bro. 1392 01:45:15,560 --> 01:45:27,560 And you're like, you know, why are you so stupid? Right now we don't do any of that. We don't do any of that. We, we, we, we start to get into that. We like, okay, we don't go real gentle. 1393 01:45:27,560 --> 01:45:29,560 Yeah. 1394 01:45:29,560 --> 01:45:34,560 Yeah, no, I, I think that I think we both appreciate that about each other. 1395 01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:40,560 Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, like I love having you on my podcast. Thank you for having me on your podcast. 1396 01:45:40,560 --> 01:45:48,560 And I hope all of your listeners don't, don't tune out if you made it this far tune in all the astrology podcasts that I use the man's support. 1397 01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:52,560 It's good. You hit with the, the old ways of wisdom. 1398 01:45:52,560 --> 01:45:59,560 All right. I'm going to pause this audio right now. Thank you for listening to Black Girl from Eugene. I will check you out and you will check me out. 1399 01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:01,560 Next week. Thank you. 1400 01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:09,560 [Music] 1401 01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:10,780 [CLANGING]