0:00

now

0:03

This is the Black White Coffee

0:05

podcast. I

0:12

justified the the

0:14

three sixty per purchase because then

0:16

I also jumped at it for black rifle. Oh,

0:19

really? That's dope. Yeah. So

0:21

the guys with the new A license, they don't

0:23

You have to fund you, man? You don't get the chili.

0:26

Yeah. Fine. That's I wish I could do that.

0:28

You know? Yeah, man. It's it's alright.

0:30

We can get into that.

0:32

Chris. Would you

0:34

please introduce yourself? Yeah.

0:36

So my name is Chris Cathers,

0:38

former Army US Army

0:41

Grain Baray spent

0:44

several years afterwards contracting

0:47

with GRS. for

0:49

the for the agency. And

0:52

then I got in the defense contracting. And

0:56

yeah. That's kind of little bit

0:58

of the background. We can get into the details

1:00

though. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get there. Well,

1:03

welcome. Thanks for having me in your home.

1:05

I appreciate that. It is

1:07

late in the evening in a rainy Atlanta

1:10

suburb. We'll we'll stick with that

1:12

as far as location.

1:15

And let's let's start with this right here.

1:17

I know it's not coffee time, but how do

1:19

you take your coffee?

1:22

General, I used to drink it black now. I put little

1:24

bit of cream in, man, but that's it. Yeah.

1:26

That's it. I keep it I keep it simple, man.

1:28

You know? That's my new question. Since I took

1:30

over the podcast, I don't like I don't know how people

1:32

have their coffee, you know. It's a thing. We're

1:34

a goddamn coffee company. We gotta figure

1:37

it out. For sure you're bringing it because I'll

1:39

be brewing that tomorrow, I'm throwing out that other

1:41

garbage that I get here locally. Yeah.

1:43

Yeah. Yeah, man. Dumpster Box or whatever you got

1:45

going on pretty much. Yeah.

1:47

Good.

1:48

Alright. So tell

1:50

me your story. Where'd you grow up? Yeah.

1:52

So I grew up in

1:54

the northeast I tell everybody I'm like

1:57

a reformed Yankee. Right? As I

1:59

love the South, I dig the South. I've been down

2:01

in the South since high school. But

2:04

up until high school, I was raised by my

2:06

father up predominantly with

2:08

my father, and

2:10

he was former military. It

2:12

was an MP back in the early days of Vietnam,

2:14

sixty to sixty four, then he

2:16

became a canine handler, then he went on to

2:19

twenty years in the sheriff's

2:21

department. So I had that over

2:23

my head growing up -- Right. -- growing up under

2:26

with him and I was a little bit of a wild child.

2:28

No. Yeah. Just a little bit. I he

2:30

I like to tell the story. I I he arrested

2:32

me once. You know, that's always my my classic

2:35

go to, you know, I got arrested in high school with my

2:37

own father. What was the offense? Well,

2:39

I was carrying I got a fight in school and I

2:41

had a knife on me. Right? And some other

2:43

dude brought this is way pre columbine. Yeah.

2:45

And his other kid brought a gun this and they thought

2:47

we were, like, together. Right?

2:50

And I was a good kid at a good heart,

2:52

but I just seemed to get a lot of trouble from,

2:54

like, tenth grade on. I was always in and out

2:56

I I was arrested several times. And

2:59

luckily, with my dad's influence, it kinda

3:01

helped keep me keep

3:03

that off my record. So kind of open

3:05

me up to join the military afterwards. Yeah.

3:07

Well, you didn't hope that skill set in high school, and then

3:09

you just applied anything for uncle Sam

3:11

and Alec, man. I mean, that's how I

3:13

kinda I was just kinda, like, I was

3:15

a slick kid man, you know, like,

3:18

had a bunch of, like, run ins

3:20

with the law, but I was thankfully,

3:23

I was really good at sports, man. Like, I

3:25

dug sports, I really excelled

3:27

in athletics. But I just

3:29

wasn't interested in academics,

3:33

man. Like, so was in all

3:35

these gifted programs when I was real young

3:37

and I was such a like, ADD. I was, like,

3:39

the original ADD kid. Yeah. Yeah. And

3:42

It's funny there was another guy just recently

3:44

talking about ADD, and I was like, you just

3:46

need to channel that energy just because you're

3:48

not interested in one thing you gotta focus

3:50

on what you apply that AVD to what you're

3:52

interested in -- Absolutely. -- translated to

3:54

me wanting to join the military. You know?

3:56

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I even see it with my size

3:58

thirteen now, but even when he was younger, know,

4:00

he'd get in trouble a little bit in class for

4:02

talking or carrying on or whatnot. So

4:05

he started working out together. And it just

4:07

took the edge off him you know, got him

4:09

a little tired from a little PT, and

4:11

then he was able to kinda know a

4:13

while throughout the day. Yeah, man. I I mean,

4:17

It's hard to find a sports and stuff because I

4:19

wrestled. I did a couple

4:21

years of basketball. My

4:23

little brother denies that I played football for

4:25

two years because he went on the college football

4:27

phase. So I was like, that guy I did, like,

4:29

junior high and I fell out junior

4:31

high football. But then I I

4:33

started running in eighth grade and it

4:35

just stuck. You know, I was broke the five

4:37

minute mile in eighth grade and -- Oh, shit.

4:39

-- they're on. I was like, well, this is

4:41

It's a hard ass sport. It's an individual

4:43

sport, and it's kinda very mental.

4:45

Mhmm. And I think those things paid off

4:47

down the road because I was,

4:49

like, you know, I knew how to grind

4:52

and, you know, kind

4:54

of it's just you and a bunch

4:56

of other dudes and you have to,

4:58

like, figure out a way mentally to keep

5:00

pushing through the pain of and I was

5:02

a long distance runner, so it was a

5:04

alatia sport. Right? It's not like a

5:06

sprint. where it's, like, over nine seconds.

5:08

Yeah. Yeah. What what was the distance? So I

5:10

started as you know, I did middle distance

5:13

originally, like, eight eight hundred meters,

5:15

but I excelled at the two

5:17

mile was my best sport. Gotcha. Best

5:21

best discipline in running. And I did

5:23

cross country every year. I did the

5:25

mile. as well. You know, it wasn't

5:27

quick enough to get, you know, there's dudes running

5:29

low fours in high school now, you know, it's crazy.

5:31

Free kids. My old man actually

5:35

He held a record. I grew up in Ohio,

5:37

and he held a record at, like, a

5:39

foreign change, but for, like, twenty

5:41

years at his high school. Not a huge

5:43

high school, but a little suburb of Cleveland. Right.

5:45

That's his kind of fame. So I'm I'm naturally

5:47

fast, although I don't like it, at one

5:49

point during a pipeline for the PJ thing,

5:51

they prescribe you a

5:53

mile time. Now keep in mind still, I was

5:55

like, two twenty five. I was not a small dude.

5:58

than And for me, They

6:00

gave me A501 on a

6:02

crisp morning in where is

6:04

that? Texas. It was like no ground is

6:06

frozen. It was kinda shitty. I remember

6:09

running that thing. And if you didn't make it, it was there

6:11

was repercussions. You know, you had to make this time.

6:13

It was a big deal. So I came across

6:15

the line long is just burning like a motherfucker.

6:17

And then the plaque just says catch the

6:19

fat kid because I told the young guys, because

6:21

I was older, you know, I'd already been in the army and whatnot.

6:23

I'm like, come on, you know, bitch. Just catch me.

6:26

I'll tell you, man, that that that

6:28

long distance, Ronnie, is it's

6:30

it's something different. It's kinda like I wouldn't

6:32

say it's like wrestling. Like wrestling to me

6:34

is one like, MMA is my favorite

6:36

sport. Right? Like, Brazilian you just

6:38

do MMA. That's, like, my passion for the last

6:40

twenty years. I just really like I like

6:42

to challenge the humility and all those things.

6:44

Like, you know, one day you're the king,

6:46

like, in Fujitsu -- Yeah. -- one day

6:48

you're, like, the best dude in the gym, the

6:50

next day, you're getting merked literally by everybody.

6:53

So if you have an ego, you're not gonna be

6:55

doing DJJ for very long. Right? It's

6:57

the best man's but it's

6:59

just the the grind of that support, the

7:01

amount of just preparation to compete

7:03

in anything. It's

7:05

like wrestling. Like, there's to

7:07

me, some of the hardest sports you can freaking

7:09

try to do. Hundred percent. I mean, everybody I

7:11

think everybody in high school looks at the

7:13

wrestlers and they're like, dude. Those shoes

7:15

are grinding. you know, like a practice is

7:17

rough. I I wrestled a little bit in high school.

7:19

I also ran track. I was a eight hundred

7:21

guy, which is a miserable

7:24

fucking distance. because it's not a sprint, you

7:26

know. Kuwait, it's it's just in a yeah,

7:28

absolutely. But check this out.

7:31

I got to do a seminar with

7:33

Hoich Tracey. at Black Rifle

7:35

and solely. And And then had him in

7:37

the it was an ah ah moment. I'm like,

7:39

I was the demo guy. Yeah. And he was like

7:41

talking about different things. Like, you get down here

7:43

with the jujitsu, and I grab you, and

7:45

I'll try to hit you. I'm like, fuck it. It's crazy.

7:47

Yeah. That is awesome. What a cool moment.

7:50

Yeah. That's that's where I I

7:52

later later years, we'll go back. But

7:55

yeah. That's where I started. I started in capital

7:57

jiu jitsu. I got back from

7:59

Afghanistan

7:59

and, like,

8:00

early two thousands. And

8:03

I was like, man, I still don't know about Fujitsu,

8:05

man. Yeah. Like, I I kept watching it. I wanted

8:07

to do it in the nineties. People they were

8:09

doing it in group. I was like,

8:11

man, I don't know. It

8:13

seems kinda kinda weird,

8:15

dude. And so I tried it

8:17

out. I was I went into

8:19

the gym. This guy, Jeremy,

8:22

who's been a black belt for years

8:24

now, up there in capital tranches

8:26

who's a great coach. He was only a purple belt at

8:28

this time. like, hey, come on with me. He's a school

8:30

teacher -- Yeah. -- dude. And he, like,

8:32

took the shit out of me, like, ten times.

8:34

He was like, oh, fucking signed me up,

8:36

bro. So then I just got, you know,

8:38

smashed as a white bell for a while. Yeah. I

8:40

figured things out. Yeah. Absolutely. Love

8:42

this. That's the most dangerous guy in the gym is

8:44

the white bell. All strikes no technique.

8:47

Yeah. Well, especially, you're

8:49

one of those dudes. I'm sure you

8:51

grab onto somebody who's new to jujitsu

8:53

and they might be a white belt. They're tense,

8:55

but if they're a wrestler, you can feel it. The

8:57

way they move, they understand their weight and

8:59

balance, and hit movement, and everything else, and

9:01

they're explosive. And you're like,

9:03

oh, shit. I gotta be careful with this guy.

9:06

Alright. So high

9:09

school. Criminal basically is what

9:11

you're saying. You're currently, like, but, you know,

9:13

a respectful criminal -- Yeah. -- like as,

9:15

you know, as bad. Luckily,

9:17

I it would have taken one more

9:20

My whole trajectory could have changed if

9:22

I didn't have people looking out for me. My

9:24

coaches looked out for me that kept me in

9:26

school because I had to have certain GPA.

9:28

Like, if it wasn't for that, I have no idea. I

9:30

probably would have been dead by twenty. Yeah. I was

9:32

just on a bad course. So my dad gave me three

9:34

options. He's like, enjoy the

9:36

military like I did. You can go to

9:38

college, but I'm not paying for it.

9:40

Or you can go get

9:42

a job, figure that shit out. And

9:44

I knew right off the bat. I I was attracted. And I

9:46

said I grew up with, like, all

9:48

the action movies back in the day.

9:50

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I just watched Rambo the

9:52

other night. Okay. We're one Right? Is it

9:54

where I exist? Like, Rambo, John

9:56

Conveyor, you know, like

9:58

Come on. I just love I just love all, you

10:00

know, I was like, well, I wanna do that. So

10:02

my dumbass, my I got fucked by a

10:05

recruiter story. Right. My

10:07

dad said, you need you know, I said, I'm gonna

10:09

join the military. So I went right down the

10:11

meps man. I signed up for six years like that.

10:13

Yeah. My I came back when I you know, I was like, well, I

10:15

did it. I was like, a day after he gave me

10:17

that speech. And he's like,

10:19

Well, you know, how long did you join for?

10:21

Six years. He's like, you know,

10:23

I was like he's like, I I meant, like, maybe

10:25

try it out. Put your foot in the water, dude, maybe

10:27

three years. Yeah. And

10:30

I I didn't know much about the military. I didn't do

10:32

any due diligence. I didn't have, like, my

10:34

my older brother is in the military. He's in

10:36

still. He went back in at fifty. Oh, sure. He's

10:38

a warrant officer now. He's AW2

10:41

And, you know,

10:42

so my uncle was in,

10:44

my great uncle, like, So I had a

10:46

bunch of people, but they they weren't relatable

10:48

to me. They were much older.

10:50

So I just went down. I was like, I wanna be an

10:52

airborne ranger. Yeah. Okay. stamp

10:54

my paperwork. I saw airborne qualified. I

10:56

was like, shit. I'm gonna be airborne, Matt.

10:58

So I go to basic and, you know, I

11:01

find out you know, I'm a sixty

11:03

eight x-ray, which I was working on a

11:05

patches -- Right. -- as a,

11:07

you know, armament and electrical repair

11:09

for, you know, a sixty four

11:11

attack helicopters. And I was like, fuck. I

11:13

didn't wanna do that. Sounds

11:15

boring. Yeah. So I I

11:17

went to fucking recruiters. Yeah. And

11:19

I was like, this fucking recruiter, man. He told me

11:21

I was gonna be an airborne ranger man. And

11:23

I didn't even see other people.

11:25

I didn't see any braze because I went to

11:27

Fort Knox out of basic And,

11:29

you know, I get through there. That was a little bit

11:31

of a wake up call, but then I started excelling.

11:34

And I figured out how how do I

11:36

need to be successful to get on to the

11:38

next thing. So I

11:40

went through AIT, and I

11:42

was, like, dude, I wanna go to Ranger school. And they're,

11:44

like, you're a fucking soft skilled MOS.

11:46

Dude, you're not going to a fucking Ranger school

11:48

because you can't go. And I was like, oh,

11:50

that's pretty lame. It's not what the recruiters told

11:53

me. So they're like, you can try out

11:55

for SF, though. I was like, well, fuck yeah.

11:57

I wanna do that. So I was in

11:59

Germany. I did a year in Korea. Went to

12:01

Germany. Not school. Started rocking

12:03

every day. Yeah. Like like I

12:05

did It's a precautionary tale. I need a young

12:07

man trying to go SF. Don't rock

12:09

with a hundred and ten pounds even miles every

12:11

day. Like I did. How's your

12:13

shins? it what? Yeah. That's why I'm all

12:15

crippled now. I'm like, you know, don't do

12:17

that. You don't need to train with a hundred and ten

12:19

pound rub stack, bro. So

12:21

but I would do that. Like, religiously.

12:23

I just kept

12:24

grinding. I was, like,

12:25

trying to figure out, like, the the two

12:28

things that I knew you had the rock

12:30

is it make sure your feet were squared away?

12:32

And the second thing was, like, don't quit. That

12:34

was the predominant thing that that was only

12:36

advice because nobody I knew was

12:38

SF. So I flew

12:40

from Germany to the

12:43

brag, and I think it was in the winter, man.

12:45

It was ninety five. see

12:47

back in the last hard course, man. Yeah.

12:49

Sorry for all the emails for the other

12:51

dudes. And yeah,

12:53

man. It was a wake up call

12:55

for me, but I just knew the whole

12:57

time, all I have to do is not

12:59

quit. And I was like, fuck, I can do that. So you

13:01

have to kill me to put me fuck out of

13:03

here, dude. Like, I've got I've been

13:05

ingrained with that mindset my whole life,

13:07

which transitions even to today.

13:09

Like, I'm just I'm good at, like,

13:11

suffering. You know, I tell everyone I'm a professional sufferer.

13:13

I guess that's gonna be my new call sign,

13:16

but the suck. you

13:18

braised the suck. Then I went through, then

13:20

I the thing in the back of my head was

13:22

like, I don't wanna go back to my unit and

13:24

be the guy. with his tail between

13:26

his legs. Like, hey, dude, because I talked, you know,

13:28

I was like, I'm going SF, you know. I talked to a

13:30

couple people. I'm like, fuck. I gotta live up this

13:33

shit now. So I made it. And

13:35

then I went to airborne school and went through the q

13:37

course. And, you

13:39

know, I I like to tell people I

13:41

wanted to be an eighteen delta I was like, That

13:43

sounds cool, man. I wanna be the medic man. This

13:45

is gonna be the smart guy. You saved people's

13:48

lives, but I was too stupid.

13:50

So I'm I'm

13:52

proof that that's not true. They were like you're an

13:55

eighteen rock. You can break

13:57

rocks. Yeah. A rock. A little rocks. And fucking

13:59

learn how to shoot lots of different, you

14:01

know, small arms all the

14:03

way up to we're doing

14:06

stingers and one zero sixes and Carl

14:08

Gustaf. So we got, you know, that was really cool

14:10

because I was really in the guns even at

14:12

the young age. I started shooting when I was

14:14

maybe six or seven. Yeah. or not

14:16

properly. I learned all the wrong

14:18

techniques from my dad. Right? Revolver

14:20

-- Yep. -- shooting trees -- Yep.

14:22

-- shooting rocks or feet. We

14:25

used to shoot clay pigeons with twenty

14:27

twos. And I remember we kinda rebuilt

14:29

this little bolt action twenty two deal.

14:32

And I wanted these sites so bad. They

14:34

were Williams Peep sites. You ever seen those

14:36

-- Mhmm. -- bill adjustment on there and all that

14:38

shit. And we got to the point where we'd

14:40

we'd break clay pigeons. And

14:42

as they break, we just put the orange pieces

14:44

back up till we're shooting like nothing. Shoot

14:46

quarters and shit like that. That's pretty fun,

14:48

dude. That's cool, man. Yeah. So I

14:50

I enjoyed all that, man. Like and even

14:52

when I made my friends that I still have

14:55

now or literally

14:57

from that time in the q course,

14:59

like, ended up graduating,

15:01

did a few deployments. And,

15:03

you know, actually, my second

15:05

deployment was the first time I was, like, in

15:07

in a combat setting. Right? Like, we got opened up

15:09

on an ambush situation I

15:11

was driving. And

15:13

and I

15:15

was just looking for more because during

15:17

those first couple

15:20

deployments, I was the new guy,

15:22

man. I went I went I went through selection as

15:24

an e four. was a corporal. And

15:26

so when I got to my team, I just got my e

15:28

five, which you don't see any e fives in

15:30

SF, man. It's like you on almost

15:32

automatically, you know, you're up for e

15:34

six shortly after which I was.

15:37

But then we were doing

15:39

foreign internal defense, counter poaching operations,

15:42

demining predominantly North

15:44

Africa, like Chad, Nigeria, Senegal,

15:47

Cuthabaugh, but I spent most of my time in

15:49

Chad, and it was a

15:51

fucking shit hold. Who'd you?

15:53

Like, compared to Afghanistan and Iraq, all

15:55

of the places I've been in the world

15:57

that place was just

15:59

everything could kill you, man, like

16:01

diseases dengue fever. We had guys getting

16:03

dengue malaria on my team. It's nasty.

16:05

I I had my only so

16:07

I did alright. I spent

16:09

tiny bit of time in Ethiopia's

16:12

Somalia, but we were out of Japan. And

16:14

even Jabootie was like, yeah. This

16:16

is not super cool. It's not like the fun

16:18

deployments. Right? Yeah. And and

16:20

you're not It was it was

16:22

dangerous for a lot of reasons because that was the

16:24

time when I was talking a lot and that was the first

16:26

time I heard somebody utter his

16:28

name. Right? I was in during

16:31

with Darice Lam, when

16:33

the embassy bombings happened, and I think it

16:35

was in, like, I can't remember maybe ninety

16:37

eight ish. And we

16:39

were the only military force

16:41

in that area, like, in the A. O. and he was

16:43

in Sudan, like next door at that

16:45

time. And So it got really

16:47

dangerous. You know, even though we

16:49

were doing, like, foreign internal defense, counter

16:51

poaching, demining all those types of

16:53

operations, we had to go

16:55

kind of, like, our posture had

16:57

to be elevated while we're there.

16:59

And so it was

17:01

kinda cool. But I

17:04

had it was pre nine eleven. So this is where

17:06

everything kinda gets wonky. Right?

17:08

So I was getting I already pre

17:10

enlisted my first time

17:14

and was at a point where I had to reenlist

17:16

again. It would put me well over ten. And

17:18

I was like, I talked to my team sergeant. I

17:20

was like, oh, what do you think I should

17:22

do, man? And we had a heart to heart. You know, I said, I

17:24

didn't come in here to, like, do, like and

17:26

I know that's, you know, a predominantly role of

17:28

SF, especially at that during that time in

17:30

the low nineties. but

17:32

I wanted to do more. And I thought about trying to

17:35

go maybe try out for some other the cool

17:37

guys. Yeah. But hi

17:40

There was no guarantee, and I didn't wanna get stuck

17:43

at that point. So I decided to go

17:45

to PA school. So I got out

17:47

right around two thousand. And

17:50

I started going to school, which was a

17:52

total culture shock, man. There was no

17:54

transition, you know, and that we can get into that

17:56

when it comes to, mental

17:58

health and things for dudes that are veterans that

17:59

are transitioning from

18:01

soldier life to civilian.

18:03

And I was just,

18:05

like, I went to my to group,

18:07

and they're like, here you go. You sure?

18:09

They try to win me over each. And you don't wanna

18:11

sign up, bro? We'll send you to free fall. There's some

18:13

bullshit. You know, last said I was gonna be airborne

18:15

Rangerman. What are you gonna do? I'm not gonna

18:17

get. So I was like, no, I'm gonna get

18:19

out to you. And he that was my transition.

18:22

It was literally zero. It was

18:24

like, here's your paperwork. That's crazy.

18:26

Like, fuck. And for what it's

18:28

worth, it has improved the good

18:30

amount. know, even even when I was leaving the army in

18:32

five and, you know, I was

18:34

moving over to do PJ stuff.

18:37

it was still you had to go through like, the the meetings and

18:39

the briefs and the mostly, it was the state

18:41

highway patrol trying to, you know, recruit all the

18:43

infantry dudes, but they do a decent job of

18:46

it. And now, just watching the Evolution guy. I'm still

18:48

in the guard. You know, so I still see some of

18:50

this shit. Even my

18:52

first trip in p j

18:54

land in two thousand twelve, I

18:56

did a pre and post questionnaire.

18:59

Unlike mental health and shit, I'm like, I've

19:01

never seen any of those. What the

19:03

fuck is this? Sure you lie. Yeah. Yeah.

19:06

Exactly. I gotta make sure. What

19:08

I don't should I be putting b? I don't drink

19:10

at all. Never. Not a

19:13

problem. No. Not a problem. Any of

19:15

him. But yeah. So

19:17

he went out, went to school, then what

19:19

happened? Yeah. So

19:21

i I did

19:22

essentially, like, a year and a half, two

19:24

years, community college went through university that

19:26

was really tough to get in, and I was shock

19:28

that they even accepted me because, you know, you heard

19:31

my my previous story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey. It's not an

19:33

academic genius. Right? It still

19:35

bored the shit out of me, but I was like, hey. If I'm

19:37

gonna be trying to be a PA, really

19:39

need to apply myself. So I kinda

19:41

I did, but I had one foot I still wasn't

19:44

fulfilled. I didn't have that purpose that I had

19:46

previously, and I was, like, kinda regretting it.

19:48

And then nine eleven happened, man. I was going in the take a biology test.

19:50

It's, like, eight thirty in the morning, getting

19:52

my haircut. And I see the

19:54

first plane burn into the fucking towers,

19:57

man. and I instantly

19:59

knew, man. I wasn't a hundred percent, but

20:01

I was like, that's not an accident, dude.

20:03

And I was listening to how it

20:05

started. I got in my car. I drove still driving to school

20:08

because I we people didn't know what was happening.

20:10

I was like, oh, well, shit. It's

20:12

unprecedented. Maybe it was, like, fluke

20:15

Yep. And around was almost at

20:17

school, which was down near

20:19

Philadelphia. And I heard, you know, I was

20:21

listening to Howard Stern, and he was watching out the

20:23

window, commentating live. And I was,

20:25

like, oh my god. Another fucking plane went in,

20:27

man. And I was, like, turned around,

20:29

dude, went home, It

20:31

was either that day or the following day. I called my

20:33

team starting back. I was like, hey, bro. I wanna get back on

20:35

the team. He's like, no. Do you listen,

20:38

Bernadette Panama? the first gulf war,

20:40

these things they don't last long

20:42

by the time you get in process, you're gonna miss

20:44

the the you know, you're

20:46

gonna miss you know, the

20:48

whole evolution. So

20:50

I was like, alright. Fuck.

20:53

And so at

20:55

that point, my buddy, Ron Griffin, who I went through SF

20:58

with, he had

21:00

just gotten out and was doing

21:02

some stuff for OGA. And

21:05

he he actually reached out and

21:07

was like, hey, bro. You know, would

21:09

you be interested in trying out

21:11

for the agency, man? I

21:13

was like, yeah.

21:16

What do I gotta do? Yeah. And he's like, well,

21:18

there's the vetting process. You're gonna have to go through

21:20

this. You know, you're gonna have to do your SF eighty

21:22

six. clearance process and go through this vetting,

21:25

shooting, PT. And

21:27

so I

21:28

was, like, fucking sign me up, bro.

21:31

And that kinda again

21:33

changed my trajectory from that point

21:35

forward. So in two

21:37

thousand three, during the invasion, like, in

21:39

the summer, It's

21:41

like we're the first ten

21:43

dudes or so in

21:46

country for OGA.

21:48

This is GRS guy. and

21:50

it was

21:51

exactly what I want the fucking do. You know?

21:53

Like, there wasn't the bureaucratic red tape of

21:55

what we had to do with SF. Like,

21:57

there was the ROEs were just

21:59

was like, hey, man, you're gonna operate

22:02

in this envelope. Your

22:04

job is to keep this these people

22:06

alive. You're gonna be providing high risk protection in an

22:08

austere environment. So I was like, okay. So

22:11

that purpose is what drove

22:13

me. like putting someone else, I've continued to

22:15

do that, like, executive protection even later

22:17

years. In the last five years of my

22:19

career, I've been I got back into it

22:21

because I missed that

22:24

it sounds weird, but I felt like a ronin when

22:26

I got out when I got out

22:29

from SS. When I was in college,

22:31

I felt like that. And then, again, when I was in

22:33

defense contracting, afterwards,

22:35

I just felt like I my purpose wasn't

22:37

not clear. It was like, am I doing this

22:39

for money? Like, I'm not it's not,

22:41

like, didn't feel that purpose. Like, money's

22:43

great. Everyone loves money. You can do more

22:45

shit. It's cool. But I wanted

22:47

that, like, higher level, like,

22:49

would your life someone

22:52

else's life, you're you're putting your life

22:54

on the line to protect them is just I

22:57

just felt like that was my calling,

22:59

you know. there's a nobility that comes

23:01

from that type of work and and mission and

23:03

everything else. And even in, you

23:05

know, contractor landed, that that is

23:07

kind the paradigm

23:09

is you want to contribute.

23:12

And sometimes because you're making a good

23:14

paycheck, you're like, as a paycheck or as contribution

23:16

to country. At the end of the day, it's both.

23:19

Finally, like, you're making a decent paycheck

23:21

and make no mistake. paycheck

23:23

was nice at the time. Like Yeah. Of

23:25

course. because I was like, well, I could do a full time, but

23:27

that process is one, it's gonna take longer.

23:29

Two, doesn't pay as good, but do the same

23:31

shipping, a contractor. And

23:33

I have flexibility with my schedule where you

23:35

live. If I wanna work ten months out of the

23:37

year or full year or six months, I

23:39

can make that decision. So

23:41

I just felt the flexibility was

23:44

totally worthwhile. Yeah. So

23:46

I did that, you know, two thousand

23:48

three, and our

23:50

deployments were not like military deployments. So when I

23:52

say, you know, I didn't I

23:54

don't actually remember how many deployments I have. I

23:57

know I've counted twelve, but you

23:59

know, it's like there's some days

24:02

sometimes I've done six month deployment, sometimes

24:04

I've done ninety days, sometimes

24:06

as short as sixty.

24:08

So it really depends, you know,

24:10

but but at that time, I stayed

24:12

for a couple months. I went

24:14

home for maybe a month, and then I came

24:16

back at the end of o three. And

24:18

then I came back in o four.

24:21

And 003 was very

24:23

interesting in Iraq because it was the early

24:25

days, man. Like, we were running around in Soft

24:27

Skin. I was on the road every single day --

24:29

Mhmm. -- doing operations or

24:31

fans out of what city? We were

24:33

originally, we took over buy off Okay. It

24:35

was Bagged at International Airport.

24:37

We

24:39

kind of, like, we're housed there,

24:41

but then we transitioned to

24:43

CampSleyr. So that was right across, like,

24:45

near victory. Mhmm.

24:47

And we kinda set that up.

24:49

There was no one there, man. And it was just, like,

24:51

you're freed. What building do you want to make

24:53

your compound? Very early days.

24:55

Very wild west, man. And

24:57

o three was quiet, man. Like,

25:00

Not very many encounters, IEDs,

25:02

shoot outs. We were we

25:04

cleared half of fucking bagged out with, like,

25:06

six dudes, which was insane. Like,

25:09

we all had backgrounds that were completely fucking different.

25:11

Yep. So we had seals. We

25:13

had predominantly seals and SF guys.

25:17

But then we you have some other guys with different backgrounds

25:19

that had no CQB experience

25:21

other than the the school house -- Right.

25:23

-- more like four dudes

25:26

or two dudes. You know, it's just

25:28

very fluid. But I loved

25:30

every bit of it, man. All I remember

25:32

is this is so hot, you know. maybe

25:34

the hottest summer I've ever been in.

25:37

because you're wearing all this kit and, you

25:39

know, this is ridiculously hot.

25:41

But going into four,

25:44

soon as I came in the spring, I think I came back

25:46

in January. I just kinda came right back. I just

25:48

go home for a couple weeks or a month.

25:50

then it became really,

25:53

like, the encounters every day

25:55

we'd go out, you know, in the

25:57

spring eating up to the

25:59

spring of o four.

26:01

It just got

26:03

significantly worse. Like,

26:05

idea attempts were going up,

26:08

like, and

26:10

we take a lot of rounds on vehicles. And

26:12

thankfully, at that point, we started getting armor,

26:14

you know. And that saved it saved

26:16

me, like, several times. I mean, I got hit

26:19

by pretty significant an idea on kid easy

26:21

expressway with my my buddy

26:23

pulling security. And then

26:25

the next time I went out a week later, that

26:27

one was a pretty it

26:29

it killed our vehicle, you know. And

26:31

we we were in a

26:34

it was equivalent of AB7

26:36

So for those of who don't know, armor

26:38

piercing threats, but they set it up on

26:40

a guardrail, and we're going about seventy five

26:42

miles per hour when we got hit, and we just

26:44

went. And he I just remember him

26:46

looking over. just former

26:48

ArSach guy. He was like, that's

26:51

not appropriate. But

26:53

it's those moments seem like

26:55

a firefighter some shit that are, like, the biggest

26:58

takeaways. Yeah. I had a gun go down in that

27:00

too, man. I came I was at the range that

27:02

morning, didn't clean it. I only put, like, two

27:04

hundred rounds, but then I was like, hey, we

27:06

wanna do this thing. Cool. Alright. Well,

27:08

everything was smooth.

27:10

So got

27:11

out and there was a little bit of a

27:13

a shootout situation. And he's just, like, bla

27:15

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

27:18

bla bla bla

27:20

making a calm shot this dude is I'm

27:22

like, blah blah blah. Kick. And

27:24

he goes, blah. You know, I'm

27:26

like the asshole, the joke. nightmares

27:29

about that. It was not funny, but it was

27:31

funny, you know? Yeah. Right. So as it is a

27:33

fucking nightmare. You gotta transition in by, like,

27:35

two hundred meters with a pistol that was

27:38

on. So fast forward that.

27:40

The next time I went out, it was another one. So it

27:42

was just like the other dudes were just there was

27:44

a lot of dinner led

27:46

into Flusia. during during that time I

27:48

was still in country. And

27:50

even the BW guys that were over

27:52

there, I literally had drinks

27:54

with those guys the night before they went out to do their thing. I said,

27:56

what do you get? Where are you guys going? They're like, Fluzio.

27:58

I'm like, you're all

28:00

gonna fucking die, man. I was

28:02

trying to be I was like, this is bad, dude.

28:04

Yeah. Like, I said, man, things are heating

28:06

up, man. Like, just please

28:09

be careful. And watching that, that

28:11

just pissed me the fuck off

28:13

because of what happened to those dudes who

28:15

had strung up and it was just

28:17

it hit home because I was watching it live. I just had

28:19

beers with these dudes like twenty

28:21

four hours ago, you know.

28:24

And anyway, from

28:26

that point four that a

28:28

couple stayed in Iraq, the end of

28:30

o four Afghanistan,

28:32

the ball couple toward

28:33

trips and I was in o five and went back to Afghanistan.

28:35

And then 06I spent most of

28:37

my time in Israel. Oh, okay.

28:39

So that was that was kind of like,

28:41

thank you for your service deployment. Yeah. So it

28:44

was great, you know. The it wasn't getting

28:46

blown up every day, and it wasn't like

28:48

Afghanistan or Iraq.

28:49

was still kinda, like, when you're operating, you're operating,

28:52

when you come home, you're in a pool, you know, and

28:54

you can chill. And it was it was

28:56

very weird. So

28:58

Did you know again your spicer in Iraq?

29:00

No. I don't I was

29:02

I was doing Ranger shit in two thousand four.

29:05

And I was in the sniper section,

29:07

and a buddy of mine had left

29:09

snipers, and he was he went someplace. We

29:11

thought he was trying out for a b

29:13

or c, whatever. shows up in

29:15

a silver murk, up

29:18

armored. And he's like,

29:20

what's up, Kevin? And he's in civilians,

29:22

like, BlueJeans, and a glock. And,

29:24

like, Oh, what's up with you, man? We were at a

29:26

shark base, you know, in a lot. in

29:28

Ramati. Yeah. If I had shoes on, but, you know,

29:30

he's working. And he's like, you got me

29:32

762 I'm got a bunch of

29:34

match grade 762 And he gave me a bottle

29:37

of, what's it called, black

29:39

velvet -- Yeah. -- shitty whiskey or whatever

29:41

it was. but they had got the

29:43

SRs and didn't have any ammo for

29:45

him. Oh, yeah. Back back in the days

29:47

when Andy? No. Back in the day

29:49

when the equipment was, you know,

29:51

not quite super hot, but -- Yep. -- like

29:53

McKell's Navy man. Mhmm. So we asked

29:55

dudes, we started getting out gun. That was

29:57

one of our problems. So we had,

29:59

you know, when

29:59

you're

29:59

in a protective environment, when you're doing,

30:02

like, EP work, but you're in a high

30:04

threat environment, it gets kinda

30:06

murky. Like, you're not supposed to carry

30:08

certain things. you know, Alfred, things like like

30:10

military normally, and you're in a military

30:12

environment, high threat environment,

30:14

and you need to reach out

30:16

even though you do

30:18

the stuff state side, even like secret service,

30:20

you know, if you're

30:21

you're not

30:22

gonna carry a bell fed like in DC

30:24

-- Right. -- kill a bunch of innocents. Right?

30:26

So we we needed guns and well, it was

30:28

like Michael's Navyman. I have one one of

30:30

our dudes, man. We were like, hey bro.

30:33

we need some guns. He's like, how much do you need? You know,

30:35

it's like, just get us some stuff, man. Like AKs would

30:37

be really nice or maybe some

30:40

bellfeds, whoever This guy showed up in

30:42

AA5 ton truck. I

30:44

screwed it up. If I had those

30:46

weapons right, I would should have brought them all

30:48

back, man. I have that same regrets on

30:50

me listening. Oh,

30:52

no. I I may or may not know somebody.

30:54

We'll delete it. I may or may

30:56

not know somebody. who grabbed

30:58

the foul and I loved the

31:01

foul. His bow lodged it,

31:03

put it in with the rest of the long ends, threw a

31:05

scope in the bag, Well,

31:08

that's when the bravo stuff learned

31:10

to be handy, man. I was like, I'll go through these

31:12

things, but I'm like, hey, you gotta take least

31:15

three quarters of that dude. What what

31:17

are we gonna do? Let's rock a little guns. I was

31:19

like, what'd you do for this? He's like, it was

31:21

like couple cases of beer and a bottle of whiskey. Are

31:24

you serious, man? That's great.

31:26

You're you're a negotiator. You just

31:28

gotta weld all the barrels shut, and I think you

31:31

send them back. Right? I mean, he came back with RPG. He was like,

31:34

oh, this is excessive. I like

31:36

the way you think though,

31:38

brother. especially as the bravo. You're probably like,

31:40

look at all the shit. Well, that's what led

31:42

us in or led me into the

31:44

next career because I thought

31:47

that wrongly. So don't bet on

31:49

me if I make predictions, I

31:51

suppose. But I thought this stuff was every

31:53

year guys were, like, it's gonna dry up,

31:55

dude. you're gonna think, you know, what are you gonna do next?

31:57

And I was like, I don't know all I do is gunsling, man.

31:59

I don't know what I can what what am I capable of

32:01

doing, you know? Yeah. But I'm not,

32:03

like, I don't have a degree. Yeah.

32:05

and my degree is over here.

32:08

And so my buddy John's

32:10

in. He's a former Seal Team

32:12

three guy. He

32:12

was my partner for a while. And

32:15

we

32:15

I was partnered up with him through my buddy,

32:17

Ron Griffin, again, because he was like, hey, bro, when I got

32:19

in country, we got to serve in

32:22

in Iraq. together after the military. It was

32:24

really cool. And he's like, you need to

32:26

you know, Chris is a good dude. He's a

32:28

good dude. So we paired up

32:30

And and John was awesome, man. He

32:32

was always getting me in the trouble, though, because

32:35

sometimes he was a little aggressive, but

32:37

those are the best friends to have. Go. What about that guy? I was like, hey.

32:39

He's an old man, dude. He's not looking at

32:41

us. So we got partnered

32:43

up, and he got out. And one of the big

32:45

problems that we had were we were getting blown

32:47

up a lot and

32:49

shot up because of our profile.

32:51

We're driving superbans, g five

32:53

hundreds, you know, seven series

32:56

BMWs, and it was such a high

32:58

profile that every time we went down the street, they're

33:00

like, they're important. Yeah. Slow them

33:02

up. Well, in state didn't help with their

33:04

profile and their VIX and everything else.

33:06

So we wanted to make indigenous vehicles. So he started making

33:08

an armored vehicle company in California,

33:11

and I

33:12

initially invested in it you

33:15

know, my buddy that I have one of my

33:18

idea ID encounters with.

33:20

He called me up. He was like, hey,

33:22

bro. looking for investors, I was like, how much money, man? He's

33:24

like, ten grand. I was like, that's a lot

33:26

of money right now, but okay. It's like,

33:28

whatever, man. because My buddy

33:30

Ron, again, he got involved with buddy John, they all

33:33

started this company called Inogen

33:35

Armor, making low profile armored

33:37

vehicles for

33:39

steer environments have been blended, but had

33:41

the stuff behind it. So, anyway, we

33:43

did that. I did I transitioned over as

33:45

a project manager and we

33:47

up the company in four years to private equity

33:51

with three knuckle

33:53

dragging, you know, got my business degree,

33:55

started working on Lean Six Sigma courses and all

33:57

the stuff that's required for that

33:59

industry. And it was crazy amount

34:01

of work, man. And that's what kept

34:03

my mind focus because I

34:05

had transitioned to a bunch of

34:07

other seals and SF, you

34:09

know, run company.

34:11

and And it

34:12

would just made the transition a little bit easier because otherwise, I don't think I would've been

34:14

able to do it. But you're involved in the industry

34:17

still and, you know, contributing and whatnot.

34:19

So Yeah. And you're still

34:21

part of the, you know, your our customers were

34:23

dudes like us. Mhmm. So it was really kind

34:25

of nice, but it was very stressful because I

34:27

just wanted to do the best I could. Yeah. Absolutely.

34:29

What we had at the time you know. What a

34:32

power curve though? I mean, going from, you know,

34:34

GRS straight into that, you know,

34:36

invest in and running a business. It's just a

34:38

big iconic school full time

34:40

while working you know, sixteen

34:42

seven days a week, man.

34:44

So, anyway, kind

34:45

of, like,

34:46

stat transition

34:49

My buddy John ended up dying. He went

34:51

to Jordan on a work trip. He's it's

34:53

a long story. I won't get into all

34:55

the details, but he ended up

34:57

passing away at I got a call three in

34:59

the morning. And we had worked together in Iraq.

35:02

We worked together. He lived in my

35:04

neighborhood, lived

35:06

maybe four doors down or c o CFO was in there. It was like

35:08

the mob man. We had another general manager. We

35:11

had three four companies at the

35:13

time when we sold

35:15

And, you know, I had to

35:17

tell his wife so, you know, I got

35:19

to call him, like, his wife

35:21

was nine months pregnant with

35:23

his first boy. And he already had

35:25

two beautiful young daughters, so I had to

35:28

go up there with my buddy Ron and my

35:30

ex wife and knocked them the door at

35:32

six AM man, and she was nine

35:34

months pregnant. and it just crushed me, dude.

35:36

Like, she felt her knees right when she

35:38

saw me. I didn't even have to say anything. The door

35:40

opened, little

35:42

girl's answer. and she's on like,

35:44

just came out of the shower with a towel on her head and she looked at me and she just screamed

35:46

this this horrific whale this

35:51

this day just wrecks me. So all

35:53

this stuff happened, man, like,

35:55

the the there were some

35:57

legal issues with his Life

36:00

insurance. We all had big

36:02

life insurance policies. The

36:04

private equity group, there was

36:06

some gray area, which I get into

36:09

because I don't wanna get sued. No. I didn't agree. I waited eight months to

36:11

figure this out. And during that eight month period, I

36:13

was still working for the company because I had a

36:15

lot of guys that cared about and

36:17

sixty five guys working for me.

36:20

Mhmm. And during this time, I started

36:22

drinking hard, but I was

36:24

working trying to keep my the

36:26

company going wasn't

36:28

paying attention to the marriage as I

36:30

probably should have. My buddy's

36:32

dead. I had to pick his body up. There

36:34

was a series of

36:36

unfortunate events And my my wife left me. I had to

36:38

resign my position because I didn't agree

36:40

with how they treated

36:42

his spouse she ended up suing

36:44

our company. I said, here's my soon as

36:46

I I've got that phone call. I said,

36:48

here you go. I'm done. Yeah. I

36:50

feel lucky. I had some

36:52

pretty horrific thoughts going through my

36:54

brain. So that's when,

36:56

like, you know, go transitioning into

36:58

the world map today I

37:00

took about six months off. I was in a

37:03

sick this big house, all these things, and

37:05

everybody looked at me from the outside that I

37:07

was very successful, but I

37:10

was totally falling apart. Right? So I was drinking I

37:12

couldn't sleep. That kinda triggered

37:14

everything that I've dealt with

37:16

for the last twelve years. I

37:19

think in in high like, I didn't know this right

37:21

away because I've been through so many different what

37:24

you call traumatic events, but

37:26

I never they didn't bother me, you know, so they can pile. This the

37:28

catalyst. Right? I wasn't expecting it. We weren't

37:30

in Iraq. I was just a civilian. I

37:32

was like, dude, you just wanna work trip, man.

37:35

What the fuck? Yeah. So I

37:38

started taking Ambien. III was on

37:40

sleeping meds for two years doing

37:42

rozan bar techs at three in the morning, but

37:44

I don't

37:46

remember I was drinking probably a half to a fifth a night.

37:48

And for that first six months, I was

37:50

just a shit show. I'm like, I have to get

37:52

my shit together. I have to get another

37:56

job. rebuild, like What year what year are we talking here? So

37:58

this was in two thousand ten

37:59

Heaperten Way. And then

38:02

in eleven,

38:04

It really came to a head. I got another job.

38:06

I I was the

38:10

general manager sent

38:12

for Jankel armoring, which is

38:14

a a fantastic armoring company in

38:17

Greenville, South Carolina. So while

38:19

I interviewed five

38:20

times, I took sleeping, like,

38:22

pain meds. I was taking a lot of, like,

38:25

Oxy and all the anything I could get my hands on

38:28

to calm my anxiety. That

38:30

was the only reason I took it, you know, in

38:32

my I

38:34

just couldn't I was sweating all the time

38:36

and just was a mass mass

38:38

suicidal in two thousand

38:40

eleven. That when I plan to kill

38:42

myself the first time I

38:44

attempted suicide was an

38:46

eleven. And my buddy, Ron Griffin, it was the

38:48

craziest thing dude, like, So all that my

38:50

buddy died, my wife's just divorced me

38:52

on the anniversary, the first anniversary in two

38:54

thousand eleven, and my buddy's death, it was literally

38:56

to the

38:58

day. So she files a paperwork and just moved out, and I was like, whoa.

39:00

I'm rock bottom dude. Yeah. And

39:02

so I put plastic up in my bathtub because

39:04

I'm a conscientious to a sino guy.

39:08

because I was like, well, I don't want I don't want anybody to I don't want

39:10

to, like, have somebody clean my brain matter up.

39:12

That makes sense. Right? It's

39:15

so weird. And I mean, it's weird. Like, is it weird

39:17

that we laugh about it? You know, it is what it

39:20

is, man. I mean, this is, you know, that's just how

39:22

my brain worked that

39:24

was, like, I waited till nobody would whoever found me, I didn't want it be

39:26

his widow, you know? because fuck, well,

39:28

that's a smart move. That -- Yeah. -- has been in

39:30

me for a long time.

39:33

So I just said, man, I can't do any

39:35

more of this dude. I got, you

39:37

know

39:37

you know because I

39:38

just went through because my wife left,

39:41

buddy's dead, I quit my job. All these

39:44

other things happen. I can't sleep. I'm

39:46

fucking anxious all the time. What the fuck's wrong

39:48

with me? I couldn't figure it out. So I'm gonna fucking smoke

39:50

myself. So I had my gun on my in

39:52

my hand when my doorbell rang.

39:54

And I had plastic up and

39:57

I didn't even care at that point. I think I was gonna do it on

39:59

the couch. My doorbell was drunk. I had

40:02

a fifth, like, drinking right out, like,

40:04

Jim Morrison

40:06

right now. and my doorbell rang like ten in the morning, man. I was like, I

40:08

was

40:12

like, decision, say,

40:14

god. Do I answer the door, I shoot

40:16

myself. And I I honestly didn't give a

40:18

shit. And for some reason, I

40:20

went to

40:22

the doorman, My buddy Ron had gotten he was removed

40:24

from the company, but he and that

40:26

was another part. I was isolated. I had no

40:28

friends. There were my

40:30

buddy's dead. He was one of my

40:32

closest friends. My best friend, Ron. He went back to Tulsa, Oklahoma.

40:34

She ever he started a non running

40:37

a non profit for It's

40:40

called Shepherd Full Financial in Oklahoma. He's been doing that

40:42

for, like, the last ten, twelve years.

40:44

So he he I opened

40:46

the door and my buddy's there with bags in hand.

40:49

I'm like, what are you doing here, dude? So somebody

40:52

had called him. My old CFO had

40:54

reached out and said, hey. He's in a bad way,

40:56

dude. I don't think I think he's gonna

40:58

check out. And, you

41:00

know, that whole check your buddy thing, it's a little

41:02

cliche. But this dude has been

41:04

in my side for twelve fucking

41:06

years, dude, wore that

41:08

dude out. and

41:08

he came in, you know, he goes,

41:10

this man, you look like shit. What

41:12

are you doing? I was like, oh, you don't

41:14

wanna know what I was gonna do? I

41:16

was like, I'm drunk. you

41:18

know, and he's like, get dressed, man. He looked like, Sheila, we're going. I said, where were we going? He's

41:20

like, we're going to the bar because he didn't know what to

41:23

do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what dudes do,

41:25

you know? percent. Bad idea. You don't wanna drink if you're

41:28

fucking suicidal or depressed. That's my

41:30

PSA. But it

41:32

allowed me enough time He

41:35

stayed with me for several day. I don't even remember. I don't know if it

41:37

was one day or five days or a month. I can't remember

41:39

that whole time period of my

41:41

life as a blur. because

41:43

I was on so many different things.

41:46

And

41:46

it was kinda the

41:47

turning point at that time. I

41:50

I ended up landing the

41:52

next job. and but I was

41:54

having an outburst at work. I'd get short

41:56

fuses and twos. I'm like and we had a high

41:58

stress environment. We

42:00

had to start this other company up. And I

42:02

did that for about five years. I

42:04

was still struggling the whole time. I had panic

42:06

attacks at work.

42:08

I was wet all the time. I didn't wanna go to my own meetings because I like,

42:10

so anxious. Like, I didn't wanna

42:12

be around people. So then I started isolating

42:15

to a point where I was

42:17

only comfortable being by myself, and even that got uncomfortable. You know, that's

42:19

what got me. It was like, why am

42:21

I sweating by myself? This makes no sense.

42:23

There's no one here.

42:26

you know, I've lived through this. So so I'm familiar with it, but you get to

42:28

that point where like you're sweating, you're a little

42:30

shaky, because you're dehydrated, and you fuck your

42:33

drain hose up, and all the

42:35

time and combat and deployments the way that

42:37

we weren't necessarily designed to

42:39

to operate. But you get you

42:41

don't want anybody to see it. And

42:43

it's a little bit embarrassing too because you know you're in a

42:46

certain state and then you're using

42:48

alcohol to sleep. That's what I

42:50

did for

42:52

fucking ever. And then when I stopped, I was fucked up, and then I wouldn't sleep for

42:54

two or three days, and then I'd crash for, like, a

42:56

five hour night. And I thought I was, like, the

42:58

greatest thing ever to

43:00

finally sleep. where you throw pills

43:02

in there. And then you gotta

43:04

have something like you wake up while I can't

43:06

drink because they'll smell me at the office or whatever.

43:08

Mhmm. So I take something to get through to

43:10

kind of mask all these symptoms just to get home

43:12

and hit the bottle again. I get it. It's

43:14

a bad vicious cycle, dude. It's

43:16

fucking gnarly freaks So I was still

43:18

jack and feel like I'm motherfucker and drinking my face

43:20

off. I was doing when I when I

43:22

started before that

43:24

that attempt, I was doing three a day workouts. Yeah.

43:26

Like, BJJ

43:28

just functional fitness. I would the

43:30

thing that would redline me would be

43:33

a paradigm bike. I still hate that thing. I don't even

43:35

want it now because I'm a well, I'm a of a

43:37

crippled, so I can't I can't really bike well. When

43:39

I look at that thing, I'm like, hey, you dude.

43:42

red line. And then I my

43:44

mind would get quiet. And as

43:46

soon as I started recovering and I got

43:50

so fit, was down a hundred and seventy pounds from, like, you know, now

43:52

I'm, like, you know, usually around

43:54

two ten, you know, two

43:56

twenty. Yeah. And That's

43:58

that's bleeding, dude. Yeah. It was I was looking like an

43:59

AIDS victim in hindsight. I didn't even realize

44:02

it. though So

44:04

But I went on to from that point,

44:06

I was pretty successful on the outside. I

44:08

mean, I was running this company as trying

44:11

to figure it out. I was masking everything as well as I

44:13

could. I had to leave and change my suits

44:15

several times throughout the week sometimes. I fucking

44:18

pit stains soon. Yeah. And I was wearing

44:20

suits man a t shirt guy --

44:22

Yeah. -- figure that out. But so I went on to a third

44:24

defense company, brought me to Atlanta,

44:27

I was there for as a turnaround

44:30

expert for because we had a

44:32

half a billion dollar global company, but

44:34

mine was kind of

44:36

a linchpin was a strategic acquisition. They wanted to

44:38

grow aggressively. Did that

44:40

for two years, and then I got back in the gunslinger

44:44

for five. the last five, doing high risk protection for

44:46

celebrities and things like that. And I

44:48

really enjoyed that, man. I thought I could do that well

44:50

into my fifties because I stayed

44:52

fit. Mhmm. And

44:54

then in nineteen, everything kind of unfolded. That's when I

44:56

was diagnosed with a very advanced form

44:58

of bone cancer called conjunctiva.

45:02

and all my buddies have been getting sick from the early days in Iraq. And that's

45:05

the only reason they misdiagnosed me

45:07

originally. I just

45:10

thought it had a sports injury in my hip. It didn't even hurt bad. But it

45:12

went on off and on for, like,

45:14

six months. I was like, now it does

45:17

I hurt. What the heck? Something that you're doing jujitsu, so

45:19

you're like, oh, it's just something. Yeah. I thought I tore

45:21

a labrum or something in my hip, like,

45:24

some connective,

45:26

you know, like a ligament or something. You don't wanna tear your baby

45:28

off. Yeah. I'm not like

45:30

So I got an MRI and the dude called me

45:32

in a half an hour. He's like, hey

45:34

bro. I've never seen shit like this. I've been doing this almost twenty five,

45:36

thirty years. You need to be in the hospital.

45:38

I was like, this sounds bad.

45:41

I don't really I was two thirty -- Yeah. --

45:44

lifting every day. Super really

45:46

strong. I felt great. Like, cardio

45:48

was up. for that

45:50

size and because I'm usually a smaller, like,

45:52

you know, dude, like, two fifteen, two

45:54

ten, like, I don't know, like, right now, I'm, like, two hundred

45:56

first pre surgery. Yeah.

45:58

When lean. So

46:00

that kinda led. I was in the hospital for

46:02

five days. They misdiagnosed me and said I had

46:04

a bone infection. I got a

46:06

second. let into, hey, she's like,

46:08

I don't think you have cancer, but let's do a

46:10

bone graft. I'm gonna send you to the

46:14

bone is compromises. And if you keep lifting like this, you would've lost your leg

46:16

at the hip because your femoral head is about

46:18

ready to snap off because my it

46:20

was so compromised. Yeah. And I had

46:22

no clue.

46:24

I was Like, press and hold this weight. Oh, thank god. It didn't break off in the

46:26

gym. It'd be so embarrassing. It'd be super

46:28

gnarly too. Guess you went too heavy

46:30

for me. Hey,

46:32

John. Week. Week jeans. And what is that? Five hundred pound.

46:34

It's like a jeans. You're

46:36

repping that. You broke your leg, pussy.

46:40

That's awesome. No no like days for you.

46:42

Yeah. That's awesome. And I look

46:44

like Fagorn,

46:46

lakeorn. Right? So anyway, I went through that. I got a bone

46:48

graph right after the bone graph turned

46:50

into a week later. They're like, you have cancer.

46:52

Oh, shit. It's a

46:54

very advanced

46:56

is a grade three contra sarcoma. So there's a high

46:58

probability of a lot more surgeries. They had to

47:00

they did a radical resection. My right hip

47:02

and femur took to include Quidel.

47:05

They took about half to three quarters of my

47:08

femur with skill halls. They

47:10

called it a brutal and radical surgery. I was like, oh,

47:12

that sounds bad. It is. Yeah.

47:14

It is. Yeah, dude. It's more like

47:16

carpentry work at that point, like, so I should

47:18

have probably used some stuff out of your

47:20

garage. See, that

47:22

sounds bad. Sounds like a fun rehab. Yeah. You got a couple pipe fittings

47:24

and, like, a two inch piece of

47:26

steel. So I bounced

47:28

back, you know, from that point, but I

47:30

was still suffering this whole

47:32

time, man. Like so at

47:34

that point, like, well,

47:36

I'll get through the the cancer churn,

47:38

like, bit of it and then kinda go

47:40

back. But I had

47:42

that. They took out my femur, learned how

47:44

to walk again. And within, like,

47:46

five, six months, I get a call from a dude that I

47:48

work with

47:50

who was from the UK ish -- Mhmm. -- those

47:52

guys. He's like, hey, mate. I got a gig

47:54

for you. I was like, I'm a

47:56

cripple. I just got off a

47:58

walker. I'm killing it

47:59

because month four or

48:02

five, and I'm on a

48:04

cane. He's like, no, it's an easy gig. So I

48:06

ended up doing a gig. supposed

48:08

to be a month for almost

48:10

six months. Oh, shit. I I think

48:12

back now, I'm like, how the hell did I do that?

48:14

Is it in the mountains? And Yes.

48:17

super

48:17

it was super aggressive

48:19

dude. I was riding four wheelers and all

48:21

stuff. Like, I can't even do some of this stuff

48:23

now. I just mentally just dog

48:25

deep, man, but on the mouthpiece. I was like, I gotta

48:27

get back to work. Yep. I think sometimes when

48:29

you're when you're involved in it, your

48:31

mind's engaged in whatever the skill or the mission

48:33

or whatever that is. your your

48:36

body keeps up. You have to make your

48:38

body keep up in a way despite the

48:40

injury or the, you know,

48:42

previous surgery. Yeah. I mean, a hundred percent. And I think

48:44

it that's what drove me. So when I got

48:46

the cat cancer diagnosis in

48:48

nineteen early

48:50

in twenty, I'm still recovering. I'm watching the news

48:52

unfold. Right? I I

48:54

got MRSA after my, like,

48:57

after my radical section of

49:00

my femur that was after my bone

49:02

graft surgery, talking about two weeks

49:04

before that. So I hadn't walked in a while.

49:06

So he has a big climb three week

49:08

three days. stupid. because all my MMA friends came down and, like, hey, bro. My

49:10

buddy Sean was there. He's a black film

49:12

for SBG where I used

49:14

to roll and he's, like, my

49:17

buddy Wu and all these dudes were there and

49:19

they're like, you got this bro. And I'm like,

49:21

I haven't walked in, like, two weeks dude and

49:24

they just took, like, to detach my

49:26

leg. Yeah. New. phone.

49:28

That's super fucking gnarly. They gave me a list.

49:30

They said, OT and PT. Like, if you put your socks on,

49:32

if you take, you know, take a shit. You put your socks

49:34

on. If you can walk up these stairs, I'm like,

49:36

I have not walked upstairs in three weeks,

49:39

dude. My legs atrophied and

49:42

fucked. but I did it because I'm stupid. And I highly

49:44

regret that decision. I got home.

49:46

You have Mersa too. So you ended

49:50

up with, vancomycin, pick line, all that shit. I went right

49:52

back to the gym. Yeah. But with

49:54

those types of surgeries, not uncommon to

49:56

get MRSA. And

49:58

I was thank God for Brazilian jiu jitsu for that one because I've

50:00

a lot of my friends have had staff

50:02

or mercy, whatever. And I

50:04

just had this little spot

50:06

my wife Jen, she

50:08

works she was at that time in

50:10

the She's been a lifesaver

50:12

and very supportive of me because I've been

50:15

a pain. I just saw it on my I

50:17

had a hundred and ten staples on my second surgery

50:19

and twelve on my first in the same

50:21

spot. And I saw this little it

50:24

was, like, the tip of a pencil, and it was just red. And I'm

50:26

like, that looks like my buddies,

50:28

it looks like a zit, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

50:30

Well, it's right off

50:32

the incision. I

50:34

hey, I think this is might be

50:36

MRSA. Actually, I said staff because I was

50:38

like, I hope it's not MRSA. They're

50:40

both horrible. And

50:42

she's like, yeah. So we circled with a pen. I said, if this is bigger tomorrow, I'm gonna

50:44

have the doctor same doctor to give

50:46

me the second opinion to save my

50:50

life, to awesome woman, shout doctor

50:52

Raiaputte. So I went through her and she's

50:54

like, i went to her she's like yes.

50:56

We're gonna test you It'll

50:59

take a few days. I'm putting on daptomycin and all

51:01

these other antibiotics. So every

51:03

day for three months, I let

51:05

them stick me in both arms and wear me

51:07

out for three day. It was an hour to two

51:10

hour infusion every single day, and

51:12

I'd pull it out and I go to

51:14

the gym. Oh, shit.

51:16

I was like, you guys and then COVID

51:18

hit, dude. Oh, fuck. That's right. Right

51:20

before I got out, it was, like,

51:22

early two thousand twenty March. Yeah. And I had, like, was

51:24

I had, like, a week left

51:27

of demurrage stuff. because

51:30

she's, like, if it went one more day, they would've cut my leg off

51:32

or had to reform the whole surgery.

51:34

Okay. It was, like,

51:36

half of half of So

51:38

this is, like, a centimeter or away my prosthetic. And I

51:41

was, like, oh, shit. I don't I said,

51:43

Docus. If you do this over, just cut my leg off,

51:45

dude. It ain't gonna survive. No.

51:48

So that was kind of a shit

51:52

show. So after

51:54

all that was said and done, we knew it was

51:58

a high chance that this stuff was come coming coming back, but I

51:59

was like, man, my buddy Ron

52:02

has been in my corner for

52:04

twelve years.

52:06

He's got four kids. He's running he's executive director of Shepherd's

52:08

Full Brands. He's got all these duties and

52:10

responsibilities. At what point am I gonna get

52:12

my shit together and

52:14

take accountability for

52:16

my my own mental health. Are you still drinking at

52:18

this point? Yeah. Hard. Yeah. So I

52:21

would go off the rails. Drinking

52:24

is literally what I tell people drink

52:26

don't I'm not I I still drink,

52:28

but I had limited

52:30

to maybe you

52:32

know, most of the time, I won't drink during the week anymore.

52:34

If I do, it's like

52:36

one or two drinks tops. because

52:39

every every time that I've had an incident, it's always with

52:42

alcohol or some some other drug, but

52:44

usually alcohol for me. That was my

52:46

worst. It just your lows much

52:48

more low. Even if you think you're

52:50

good, if you have issues with

52:52

TBIs and PTS, it can really

52:54

catch you on off guard. Well,

52:56

yeah. I know. Again, in personal experience, I

52:59

I had this my my highs

53:01

were higher, my lows were lower. I actually

53:03

figured out how to talk

53:06

the TRICARE into getting us to Lake Gangland block -- Yeah. -- because yep.

53:08

Yeah, man. because one day, this dog it's

53:10

a longer story, but this dog went

53:13

after my daughter. and I was gonna

53:15

kick its fucking head off. You know, it said doverman, it

53:18

was this dog place, whatever. She didn't

53:20

get hurt. But I'm

53:22

the guy that Despite, you know,

53:24

an ID, a rocket attack, a firefight

53:26

like I'm always even keel. All of

53:28

a sudden, I'm shaking. I'm

53:29

like, what the fuck? and

53:30

I had felt it more, you know, like, my stress. you said, the anxiety,

53:33

like, all that shit. And I was hitting the

53:35

bottle hard, like, real fucking hard.

53:38

same volume that you mentioned earlier. And I finally, I

53:40

had enough fractures and little things in my upper

53:42

body that I talked the guy into doing. That's

53:45

the Lake Anglian block. But

53:47

like you said, you know, that kind of puts

53:49

the limiters back on those highs and lows. You know,

53:51

so you're more kind of right down

53:53

the middle. But same thing. Who's

53:55

for me? That's when the darkness

53:57

creeps in. Yeah. You cannot drink

53:59

if you're struggling, dude. Like,

54:02

it's it's the go to because

54:04

it's a temporary reprieve for a split second,

54:06

and that's what guys were like, hey, if I get a

54:08

second, that's cool, man. I'm I'm,

54:10

you know, the voices go

54:12

away, you know. You're just trying to shut this thing

54:14

down, you know. And the anxiety, which

54:16

usually for me, there was three things. It would be

54:18

anxiety twenty four

54:20

seven. And still struggle with it today, but nothing like I

54:22

mean, I couldn't do this podcast. I could

54:24

not leave

54:25

my house I go

54:28

grocery shopping even at this day in the gym and

54:30

grocery shopping. It's usually my go to's.

54:32

But now because of the what we're

54:34

getting into, The documentary

54:36

forced me over the last eight months

54:38

to just be uncomfortable as fuck.

54:40

and And that's

54:42

what I tell you. It's like, is first

54:44

you have to admit you have a problem.

54:48

Right? Second is if you

54:50

admit you have a problem, you have to be willing to

54:52

do something about it. Like, you have to

54:54

do something that usually best

54:56

thing to do is Explore your options as

54:58

far as resource, whether that's some

55:00

people hate the VA. Totally understand,

55:03

man. Everybody has different

55:05

experiences, but there's a million resources out

55:07

there for veterans, but not even veterans

55:09

like first responders,

55:12

doctors, civilians, doesn't matter.

55:14

This doesn't have boundaries. It's

55:16

just the frequency is much higher

55:18

with, like,

55:20

the military and why I'm passionate about it is because the community has been good

55:22

to me over the years. My

55:24

identity is still attached to it.

55:27

I wanted to give back. So that

55:30

first had prompted me to get in so over the last

55:32

two years I've been in treatment. I never

55:34

wanted to do meds I was an anti

55:36

med guy. I'm a holy epic

55:38

dude. You know, I like working out. I didn't wanna change my

55:40

personality. Anxiety

55:42

makes me perform is what I always used to say, you know,

55:44

because the stress makes me do -- Mhmm. --

55:46

because I'm a doer and I'm you know, I don't

55:48

like to sit around. I'm

55:50

always like, still got ADD, I

55:52

guess. Yeah. You mean both,

55:54

dude.

55:56

Well, yeah, you have to do those because I

55:58

have so many people that have called me over

55:59

the years. that have been struggling, the dudes that I

56:02

used to work with, dudes

56:04

that

56:06

civilians, man, I have, like, two or three civilian

56:08

friends that

56:10

are struggling and different scenarios,

56:12

but they call me because I've

56:14

been vocal about it. Same -- Yep. --

56:16

you know, hundred percent. And and buddies

56:20

reach out. I had a buddy

56:22

reach out on a on a Sunday. He just goes, hey, man. How

56:24

you doing? I'm like, I'm alright.

56:26

He sent me the operator syndrome right

56:28

up. Yeah.

56:30

he was like, hey, do you should read this? Like, I'm I'm just thinking about you. Like,

56:32

I'm struggling, so I wanna reach out to

56:34

you. He's the guy that I told

56:38

him about like, Angelin Lock. And, of course, he lives in Vegas, so he, like, found

56:40

some place. Does it on Thursday? Tom

56:42

Satterly. Yeah. We talked Yeah. Yeah.

56:44

Yeah. Val I've talked to Tom before. months

56:46

ago. Yeah.

56:48

to me with the same group, which does a lot for the

56:50

community. Yep. And they offered it

56:52

to me to pay for it.

56:55

fly me to Chicago. Oh, shit. It cleared me up. Very

56:57

cool. When you do it, started I did my Nike

56:59

Val. Yeah. Yeah.

57:02

I was like, we all did it right

57:04

here. But I because

57:06

I

57:06

knew so

57:07

last summer, this stuff progressed to

57:09

my lungs. Right?

57:12

So We couldn't formally

57:14

give me the stage four diagnosis last

57:16

summer, but I knew I was like, well, my lungs

57:18

were clear two years ago when I got

57:20

my leg done. Right. Now it's in my

57:22

lungs. You have these suspicious nodules.

57:24

That's the worst term. I

57:26

hate the term. Because a lot of

57:28

people do get nodules, you know, especially being

57:31

overseas but I knew right then in there, they started

57:33

growing, they started moving from my right lung

57:35

to my left lung, so I

57:37

have a bunch.

57:40

And we tried to do a biopsy this February,

57:42

and they missed. So you job

57:45

brother, he gets to. I

57:47

was on the table. I was it did my

57:49

thing and you missed the freaking

57:51

tumor, man. They missed.

57:53

And ironically, that's the same surgeon. We're

57:55

in ten days, I'm going going to get my

57:57

lower right lobe removed by the

57:59

same dude. By the same dude. How do you feel about

58:02

that, Chris?

58:04

thought maybe I should go to a different mechanic.

58:06

Like, if your car, the dude's like April, I don't know

58:08

what's wrong with it. I mean, I tried to fix the engine.

58:10

His car still doesn't work. Yeah. Right.

58:13

a smart person would probably go to

58:15

another mechanic. Yeah. But, you know. I

58:17

just figured that one was it

58:19

was a robotically is like bronchoscopy with

58:22

ultrasound and x-ray guided. There

58:24

was dude, it looked like I

58:26

got two If I redo

58:28

Joe Rogenbro Yeah. I'm gonna tell you right now.

58:30

I'm gonna tell this story because I thought I got a

58:32

ducted by Aileen. I

58:34

was on the table. I started asking smart questions for

58:36

due diligence. Yeah. I'm already I got

58:39

IVs in. I'm, like, five minutes. My wife's

58:41

there. I'm, like, hey. So how many of

58:43

these have has has the

58:45

hospital done, like, in the state of Georgia. They're like,

58:48

oh, we've done a lot. I'm like, well, how many is a lot?

58:50

It's like, thirty two.

58:52

We've done sex. I was like, bro. That's not a

58:55

lot. Thirty two is not a lot of

58:57

anything. So I'm thirty three, and you know what I didn't

58:59

ask. So a week later, he calls me. He was like, hey,

59:01

bro. I'm so sorry. I missed we

59:03

we didn't get a good sample. We can

59:05

do it again or and I was coughing

59:07

up blood. They put a mask on me and this

59:09

whole another topic. But

59:12

or, you know, we can just remove this thing. I was like, well,

59:15

let's do that, dude. Because since that surgery in

59:17

February, this thing has grown, you

59:20

know, it's big now. Yeah. It's gonna start, you know, if I

59:22

to give me the options, you can either do the surgery

59:24

in ten days or you

59:28

can die. Oh, I think this one out, man. Let's

59:30

go surgery. So I was like, I feel really good

59:32

right now. But I think this will be my

59:34

last surgery. I don't know that I'll do

59:36

many more. told

59:38

my wife, I'll do this one for the family. But, you know, I I

59:40

have to go do CTs every three months for

59:42

the rest of my life. Mhmm. And these

59:45

other ones are just sitting there waiting. Right? They're right

59:47

now. They're they're not growing

59:50

exponentially. Like this thing, it's gotta go.

59:52

So I don't have a choice, but I'm not

59:54

excited to have you

59:56

know, I'm like, you're owing one dude.

59:58

Just make this one count. What what

59:59

happened? Because you obviously, you're

1:00:02

you're driven you. Okay? And I it

1:00:04

resonates with me and the same. Even when I

1:00:06

was, you know, eating myself up and

1:00:08

crushing myself with booze and everything else, don't

1:00:10

PET and like crazy. But where

1:00:12

did the where did it go

1:00:14

from, suicidal, gun, the

1:00:16

plastic's up to the

1:00:18

resiliency of doing the surgery

1:00:20

to survive? Well, that's that's

1:00:22

the funny thing. So it led

1:00:24

to January of this year.

1:00:26

I've been in therapy. I got

1:00:28

medicated. I'm on, like, several meds

1:00:31

for depression and anxiety.

1:00:33

Plus, I have medical stuff coming on, so

1:00:35

it's not the time for me. to

1:00:37

to get off today.

1:00:40

My my plan is in in

1:00:42

next year, I wanna be off this all

1:00:44

all all meds. And if possible,

1:00:46

And, anyway, like,

1:00:47

in January this

1:00:48

year, I started to

1:00:51

think just about that. why

1:00:54

have I not done this yet? I've had

1:00:56

a gun in my mouth so many like,

1:00:58

thousands of times I've probably had a

1:01:00

gun in my mouth. Like, hundred

1:01:03

times a year, you know.

1:01:05

And,

1:01:05

you know, some of these came out of

1:01:07

nowhere

1:01:07

to a point

1:01:10

where I I was

1:01:12

like, man, I almost messed up, you know,

1:01:14

in the morning after. And it was

1:01:16

just, like, the emotion. I was so

1:01:18

emotional and all this stuff that I just

1:01:20

couldn't explain. So I went into

1:01:22

therapy two years ago.

1:01:24

I thought just about that.

1:01:26

Why why am I still here? And

1:01:28

and where

1:01:30

I was like, I definitely do not wanna be

1:01:32

here. The only way out is the, you know,

1:01:34

taking my own life. Yep. So I

1:01:36

reached out to Dan Daniel Beatty, like,

1:01:39

he's my producer for the

1:01:41

documentary. I started, like, I said, here's

1:01:43

what I wanna do. I'm a

1:01:44

I'm a you know,

1:01:46

I

1:01:46

have this particular background I'm used to suffering. I I've

1:01:49

suffered my whole life. Like with sports,

1:01:51

I always redline and try to

1:01:53

do, you know, take my

1:01:56

body to the the limits and

1:01:58

mentally. Like, I got a really

1:01:59

strong mind. And it may

1:02:01

my buddy Ron is probably

1:02:03

why I'm here. predominantly, but my willpower is

1:02:05

so strong. I was like, I'm eventually gonna

1:02:08

lose. So that's what led me to therapy, but it

1:02:10

also led me to the documentary because

1:02:12

I'm like,

1:02:14

twenty two veterans a day roughly commit

1:02:16

suicide. And if you look at the

1:02:18

statistics, I I started seeing all this

1:02:21

bad stuff going on TV. the

1:02:24

last three years has been a horror show for me for this country. Not

1:02:26

proud of what I see. People

1:02:28

are very you know,

1:02:30

know divided.

1:02:31

Mhmm. And

1:02:32

I've been

1:02:33

suffering so long and I started having all my

1:02:36

friends call me and I had a lot of friends that have

1:02:38

committed suicide. I say, I wanna do

1:02:40

something about it, man. This is gonna be my

1:02:42

focus because if I can't figure this shit out,

1:02:44

how is some other dude that might not

1:02:46

be equipped mentally that have

1:02:48

the willpower or the

1:02:50

physical abilities. It's more

1:02:52

so on the mental

1:02:54

aspect. How are these dudes

1:02:56

going to Beat this. And the answer is a lot of them

1:02:58

are. No. And it's sometimes eating

1:03:00

it. They're signed. Yeah. And so

1:03:02

it's in

1:03:04

my experience. and I've had too many.

1:03:06

It is the last fucking dude. If

1:03:08

you gave me a list of ten,

1:03:10

he'd be the last guy that I picked.

1:03:12

That's the guy

1:03:14

that goes. And there was a guy from the

1:03:16

GRS community who was also a

1:03:18

PJ. And like you

1:03:20

said, you know, that that

1:03:24

solitude. Like, you seek that solitude. Well, both

1:03:26

of those career fields, I call it my

1:03:28

interrupted life, you know, when I deploy it back and

1:03:30

forth back and forth constantly. but you're also

1:03:32

you're not really accountable to anybody during that

1:03:34

time. And you can slip into that bottle and

1:03:36

you can go super fucking deep. And as long as you

1:03:38

can brush it off, show up for work, and

1:03:41

get through that whether it's a sixty or

1:03:43

a ninety or you're showing up for a drill

1:03:45

or whatever fuck, you know, military shit you

1:03:48

gotta do. But a buddy

1:03:50

of mine, He did just

1:03:52

that. He showed up and he was the

1:03:54

fucking smiling, happy dude. That's all. You know

1:03:56

how much jokes to do? Yeah. All the time. Yeah. I

1:03:58

can't act like that because it's a serious topic. I

1:03:59

don't wanna, like, you know, but I joke around, even when I'm suffering

1:04:02

like cancer, I make all these cancer jokes,

1:04:04

man, because I'm like, oh, now I'm part of

1:04:06

the team. Right. So I go into the clinic

1:04:08

and I'm

1:04:10

like, Hey. What's up? Stage four, what's going on? But it's culturally

1:04:12

is that's how we've grown up. What is

1:04:14

wrong with this guy? Like, I come in with

1:04:16

a tank top of that, like, your

1:04:20

stage like, almost four -- Yeah. -- five. I'm, like, I'm stage

1:04:22

five, dude. But but

1:04:24

it's it's the culture, man. You

1:04:27

know, it's where we have collectively grown

1:04:30

up is in the face of, you know,

1:04:32

uncomfortable situations, humor, you

1:04:34

know, humor goes to it. Alright.

1:04:36

I'm sorry. Continue. So Yeah. So that

1:04:38

was what the challenge was I

1:04:40

finally got help two years ago. And

1:04:43

then I'm like, how are other people figuring this out? Because I

1:04:45

haven't figured it out. And I love psychology.

1:04:47

I love thinking, like, I can get myself.

1:04:50

I can use holistic approaches. I've

1:04:52

tried literally everything. Go yoga. I

1:04:54

don't know. I mean,

1:04:56

where does the shit go?

1:04:58

Yes. So I reached out. I

1:05:00

started looking I was like, I wanna I wanna do

1:05:02

a documentary that and

1:05:04

I'm the anti book guy in the

1:05:06

community, the anti I've been off the radar. I didn't even I have

1:05:09

LinkedIn and I have now

1:05:11

Instagram because of

1:05:13

what we're doing. And I was

1:05:15

just private with my friends to keep up. I never had

1:05:17

been on Facebook still to this day. I've not even

1:05:19

know what Facebook looks like. So I'm like

1:05:22

that guy. Yeah. Me too. And so now I'm, like, trusting

1:05:24

myself. I ended up getting in contact with

1:05:26

Daniel, and I was, like, hey, bro. I

1:05:28

wanna make

1:05:30

a documentary. to raise

1:05:32

awareness for the high prevalence of veteran

1:05:34

suicide in the community. It's twenty two a

1:05:36

day. And I wanna

1:05:38

take my story and other veteran

1:05:40

stories. But predominantly me

1:05:42

because I I have a story to tell

1:05:44

about it from my perspective, and I

1:05:46

know myself well. and I haven't been

1:05:48

able to figure it out. So I want people that are

1:05:50

struggling. It's like, oh, this cool

1:05:52

guy, you know, I'm still fit. That's why

1:05:54

I wanna sneak this in before my

1:05:56

surgery, before III get all, like, you know, shrink up again.

1:05:58

But, you

1:05:59

know, what can I do for

1:06:01

the community Well, if

1:06:03

I start talking about, I can destigmatize the

1:06:06

topic. And I think that's big because if you

1:06:08

look at the terminal list, I've been watching that. I love

1:06:10

Chris Brad, man. I'm not Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:06:12

I'll actually enjoying that,

1:06:14

watching that the other day. I don't watch a lot

1:06:16

of poor

1:06:17

stuff. But everything

1:06:19

you see on TV

1:06:21

is, like, he had a TBI, I think. I

1:06:23

watched a couple episodes.

1:06:26

But everything in the in media, it

1:06:28

it it gives such a negative connotation that dudes with mental health

1:06:30

issues. It's always the guy that

1:06:33

shoots someplace up or It's

1:06:35

not the case, man. Like, not not not for me. I

1:06:38

only wanted to hurt myself. I never you

1:06:40

know, I do have a

1:06:42

short temper. I have had problems with that in the past, but, predominantly, I

1:06:44

wanted to hurt myself. Right? Nobody

1:06:46

else. I didn't even want somebody to, like

1:06:48

you know, so I'm, like, seeing all this

1:06:50

stuff And

1:06:52

I wanted to to raise awareness, de

1:06:56

stigmatize it, but also provide some true

1:06:58

resources because I didn't I never

1:07:00

even looked the the

1:07:02

ironic the irony is now becoming

1:07:04

more not a subject matter expert. I'm

1:07:06

not a therapist. Don't claim

1:07:08

to be one. But

1:07:09

if I looked around,

1:07:11

you know,

1:07:12

SGB, like, the spinal ganglion

1:07:14

block, I just learned about that this year and

1:07:16

gotten off for that. I almost cried dude, like,

1:07:18

for real because I said dude, if I had

1:07:20

this ten years ago, it's fight or flight's

1:07:22

gone, then I can it's these are

1:07:24

all different tools and there's not a one size

1:07:26

fits all for all dudes. But I

1:07:29

think the two things that de stigmatize it that for the audience

1:07:31

is, like, first of all, if anybody's

1:07:33

suffering is listening to this, I really

1:07:35

like the term

1:07:36

i really like the term you

1:07:38

know, I think Mark Spitzer, who's a

1:07:40

SAS former SAS guy, sniper.

1:07:42

I just in chatting with him, we're

1:07:44

supposed to do a podcast together. I

1:07:47

said, I started reading his book that he gave

1:07:50

me. I think it's helped to answer the devil. I hope

1:07:52

I get it

1:07:54

right. But

1:07:54

the you

1:07:56

know, a lot of this stuff, they're using PTS

1:08:00

PTSI now, post traumatic

1:08:02

stress injury. listening

1:08:04

to this is like, there is no difference

1:08:06

between breaking your leg. If you break your

1:08:08

leg, you're gonna go to a doctor. Right?

1:08:11

because you're you're you're if you don't set that

1:08:13

bone, it's not gonna heal correctly, and you're gonna be a cripple.

1:08:15

Like, it's stupid. Same thing

1:08:17

with TBI

1:08:20

and PTS. you can put

1:08:22

somebody through head in in, you know, an MRI or some kind of imaging a brain scan,

1:08:24

and there's physical

1:08:27

damage to your brain. And

1:08:30

that should help people understand, like, dude,

1:08:32

there's no difference, there's no shame going to the

1:08:34

doctor if you have a TBI, and

1:08:36

you or having

1:08:37

memory loss issues because

1:08:38

you got blown up or you have anger issues because PTS and

1:08:44

TPI overlap So that was

1:08:46

one thing, like, I like the PTS post traumatic stress injury.

1:08:48

post traumatic stress the

1:08:50

injury think it's a more appropriate honestly. And, you know,

1:08:53

you can word Smith things and make it

1:08:55

touchy feely. But I honestly feel

1:08:57

like that would be a

1:08:59

a starting point Well, I think this

1:09:01

order is, you know, it's This order is offensive, man. Yeah. It's got negative connotation to it. It's gonna be like the

1:09:03

fuck that dude. I've been saying post traumatic stress. That's

1:09:06

it for years. Right? because I don't fucking

1:09:08

like it. know,

1:09:11

I don't like I don't like that disorder portion. I

1:09:13

I think people just need

1:09:15

to talk, like, open your

1:09:17

fucking mouth if you need help. You know?

1:09:19

Yep. There's tons of resources, man, like, I went to Warriors

1:09:22

Heart with Tom Spooner, who's a former cat

1:09:24

guy. They

1:09:26

spent twelve hours with me. They got six hundred acre ranch

1:09:29

in Bandara, Texas. Just one of many

1:09:31

places you can go to. They got

1:09:33

five hundred and fifty people on

1:09:35

staff, six hundred acres beautiful freaking facility. They

1:09:37

don't take your shoelace. They don't take your belts. They throw do drug

1:09:39

and alcohol treatment in addition to

1:09:43

therapy. I was like, why didn't I know about this place? It's okay for if you're a veteran,

1:09:45

you can go, like, reach out to those

1:09:47

dudes. That's one place. There's

1:09:49

multitude if you're in

1:09:52

the faith faith based places all

1:09:54

over the place. Shepherds shepherds men here in Georgia. They do TBI stuff.

1:09:58

And I like You got a TBI. They do crazy stuff here.

1:10:00

So there's all these resources banned, and

1:10:02

they're all different tools. It's very

1:10:06

complex, but you gotta start one, make you have a problem to

1:10:08

be willing to do something about it.

1:10:10

Three, look for resources and start talking

1:10:12

to people. Don't be ashamed to, you

1:10:14

know, hey, dude. You know, my brain's fucked.

1:10:17

You know? If you don't like

1:10:19

your situation that you're in, you know, how it fucks up your your jobs, career.

1:10:21

This is a lot

1:10:23

of things that there's a

1:10:25

lotta things that and why wouldn't you

1:10:27

do something? And I'm also trying to get guys to

1:10:30

reframe the brain because a lot of my friends

1:10:32

were growing up in

1:10:34

this atmosphere. If you're a

1:10:36

soldier, Thinking like a civilian will get you killed. Mhmm.

1:10:38

If you start getting all emotional and talking about your feelings,

1:10:40

right, and that's

1:10:43

part of the issue. You transition to

1:10:45

civilian life. There's a struggle because the things that kept you

1:10:47

alive in the in the military will get you

1:10:50

killed as a civilian. Yeah. you military and you

1:10:52

don't have any training, things that kept you alive

1:10:54

as a civilian will get you killed in

1:10:59

the military. Yeah. So you realize there's there's

1:11:01

a transitional, you know, when

1:11:03

you get out. Talk to this

1:11:05

guy Levi who is a former SF

1:11:07

dude just in Texas. I

1:11:09

don't know him personally, but he was kind enough to take calls. Eventually,

1:11:11

I'd like to interview the dude, sole survivor

1:11:14

of an ID attempt And

1:11:17

I said dude, how did you do it? You got

1:11:19

burned over, like, I don't know what it was. Berg almost every

1:11:22

bone in his body. His whole team was killed when dude saved

1:11:24

him. And I think it

1:11:26

was in Bogrom. Maybe I might be getting that wrong, but I think it was And

1:11:28

he's like

1:11:30

bro, when

1:11:31

you transition,

1:11:34

It's helpful for dudes.

1:11:36

You're climbing a ladder, so so you get out and

1:11:38

you're master sergeant, you're the top of the wrong

1:11:40

dude, you know, or if you're an

1:11:42

officer, you know, whatever. you're at the top of your career after twenty years or twenty

1:11:44

five years, thirty years, whatever you've done,

1:11:46

you're the top wrong. So when

1:11:50

you get out of the military, most people are mentally or thinking,

1:11:52

dude, I gotta this is his analogy,

1:11:54

by the way. I'm not taking credit for

1:11:56

this because I thought it was really wise.

1:11:58

But he's like, when you get out,

1:12:01

you you're not gonna most

1:12:03

guys think they're next next they like, no.

1:12:07

He goes, dude, you just need to

1:12:09

find another fucking ladder. Get on another find a ladder. I don't care if it's bottom wrong start climbing. You'll get there.

1:12:11

Do you the

1:12:15

know you know? You gotta mentally be equipped. It's hard

1:12:17

too, you know, and and think about it, you know, when you're on a team.

1:12:19

You know, when you're you're on

1:12:21

ODA or or an SF

1:12:24

or whatever. you

1:12:26

leave and you hang it up. And then one of my best friends, Mike, he hung it up So

1:12:29

when he

1:12:32

left OGA, he

1:12:34

was feeling a certain way and I was like, what's

1:12:36

up man? He was hanging it up again. He had decided like, I'm done. I'm, you know, I've

1:12:38

got what I need. I wanna spend time with my grandbabies so on and so forth.

1:12:43

But psychologically, you've now hung up that gun,

1:12:45

the only thing you've known for twenty, twenty

1:12:47

five years, you know, and you

1:12:50

started a transition, whether that transition

1:12:52

is into civilian life or

1:12:54

retirement or whatever that is. It's fucking hard because you're losing your tribe. You're losing your

1:12:59

community. You're losing you know, the camaraderie and

1:13:01

the banter and shit from the team room and, like, all that stuff goes away and then you're telling

1:13:03

Dick jokes and baby

1:13:07

jokes and shit. at the grocery store, and

1:13:09

now you're the inappropriate guy. And, you know, because you're not around your people in a way. So it it's

1:13:12

a super pivotal

1:13:15

time. And then at least

1:13:17

in my experience, when I've walked away from certain

1:13:20

positions, you know, climbing in that

1:13:22

bottle is that's the easy

1:13:24

button. and

1:13:26

it shuts everything off and it makes everything fucking

1:13:28

worse in the long run. Right. And it's

1:13:30

it's rough dude. It's really rough and that's

1:13:32

when guys get fall into the darkness. And I

1:13:34

I also like to tell dudes too. I'm like,

1:13:37

if you suffer from that stigma.

1:13:39

Right? because I've had a

1:13:41

couple guys this year, I just found out

1:13:43

one of my buddies attempted suicide last year, which I did not

1:13:45

know. I was totally shocked, and I also didn't know he was in

1:13:47

therapy for almost five years. He's

1:13:51

squared away, married kids to job

1:13:53

law enforcement now after

1:13:56

crazy career. And

1:13:58

I was

1:13:59

just shocked. It was, like, bro, why didn't you

1:14:02

call me dude? And, you know, we don't stay

1:14:04

in touch with certain dudes. Like, I talked

1:14:06

to my buddy, Ron, literally every day. Like, we're too old,

1:14:08

man. Hey, what's what's up, bro? And

1:14:10

he's just been, like, he's that guy. My

1:14:12

name is, like, I don't have twenty six

1:14:14

years. I'm old as hell now. So I

1:14:17

never thought I'd live to be this long, but that's part of the problem. I didn't know what

1:14:19

to do. At twenty five, I thought I'd be dead. Yeah. And then I just kept living,

1:14:21

and I'm like, what do

1:14:23

I do now? Yeah. And, you know,

1:14:25

in my mind, my my mindset now, people I have to kind of, like you know,

1:14:27

I've got, like, a maybe a nine

1:14:30

percent survival rate for the next

1:14:34

you

1:14:34

know, look

1:14:35

statistically when you're stage four

1:14:37

with chondro sarcoma, there's no treatment

1:14:39

of that surgery. Like chemo

1:14:41

doesn't work, radiation doesn't work.

1:14:43

So I have a very low life expectancy at this point, and

1:14:45

I don't know if it's like a year or

1:14:47

five or I don't think I'll ever make

1:14:49

ten years, I'll gonna damn try a

1:14:51

well man because I'm I'm

1:14:53

a stubborn motherfucker. But it's a mine fuck. When two years ago, I was thinking

1:14:55

about, well, even this year, I

1:14:58

had a couple slips. I've been

1:15:02

this is the best I've ever felt

1:15:04

mentally because I'm in therapy

1:15:06

every week, among taking things religiously,

1:15:08

and I'm listening and doing the

1:15:10

things I'm putting in the work. So that's where I'm going with this is, like,

1:15:13

you're suffering, you gotta put the work in.

1:15:15

Instead of saying, hey, man,

1:15:17

I'm a pussy for talking about my feelings. like, no,

1:15:19

you're not, dude. The hardest thing you can do is what I

1:15:21

keep telling people, man, even my buddy is like,

1:15:23

I don't wanna do therapy,

1:15:26

man. Last year, I was talk

1:15:28

about this stranger. And I'm like, the hardest

1:15:30

thing you can do, like, the documentary was

1:15:33

literally the hardest thing

1:15:35

I've ever because it forced me, like, to

1:15:37

sit down behind the camera and talk and

1:15:40

open up

1:15:42

a bell. some things that other dudes probably are like,

1:15:45

that's it. You know? I mean, I have

1:15:47

a lot of shit going on. Obviously,

1:15:49

you don't know the answer

1:15:51

in PTS the career and,

1:15:53

you

1:15:54

know, whatever. But it's just the interesting, like,

1:15:56

interesting

1:15:59

going

1:15:59

from two years ago to now

1:16:00

is very interesting of, like, you know,

1:16:02

one day you wanna kill yourself next

1:16:04

day. You're like, I'm you're struggling in

1:16:06

crawling. Like, I'm doing surgeries and all this

1:16:08

crazy things that preserve my life. So I was

1:16:11

like, that's that's not a good mindset. So

1:16:13

I tell people

1:16:16

I'm like, you need to go

1:16:18

battle your shit head on. If you don't like where you're at, do something about

1:16:20

it. Make it a

1:16:22

fight. If you're a warrior,

1:16:25

because I consider myself. I have a warrior

1:16:27

mindset. I got a super strong freaking will. I'll challenge anybody on it, you know. Like, maybe not physics. I can't

1:16:29

run anybody now. You know? Like,

1:16:31

maybe I can't I'm

1:16:35

like, oh, I can't even put my sock on on my right foot. But

1:16:37

if you go head on at

1:16:39

it, make it

1:16:41

a fight. It's the hardest fight

1:16:43

that I've ever had. I'd

1:16:44

rather get beat up by fifty

1:16:46

dudes in a back alley with pipes,

1:16:49

like pounding on me until I'm

1:16:51

almost dead. what this year and last

1:16:54

year by grinding

1:16:58

every day in making it a fight. And it's like, I'm not gonna lose

1:17:00

them myself. That's, again, ridiculous. Why am

1:17:02

I not gonna be successful? Why

1:17:04

am I not gonna get

1:17:07

out and be uncomfortable? The more

1:17:08

uncomfortable I am, the more I've grown.

1:17:10

So I tell people I'm like, you

1:17:11

need to struggle. You're gonna have

1:17:13

to

1:17:13

suffer a

1:17:16

little bit. to

1:17:16

reap that benefit. You just gotta be willing to

1:17:18

suffer a little bit more. You're already suffering. You're a hundred percent more suffering than

1:17:20

the mental health issues. Like, in

1:17:23

my opinion, that's the worst

1:17:26

nothing gives you fulfillment. You're you're

1:17:28

you're dead inside. You could have

1:17:30

beautiful daughters and sons that

1:17:32

rely on you for life

1:17:35

and you feel nothing. You hit the

1:17:37

lottery nothing. Dude, this is the you know, it's weird.

1:17:39

It is weird. And it's sad too

1:17:41

because guys silently suffer with

1:17:44

that thing. you

1:17:46

know, until they decide to punch out. But just

1:17:48

like anything else, like, I'm physically fit, dude.

1:17:50

I'm in the gym every day. Even if

1:17:53

it's not gonna be a good day, I'm

1:17:55

in there. but it took me a long time to change that paradigm

1:17:57

and work my mind like

1:17:59

a

1:17:59

muscle.

1:18:00

And I'm not great at

1:18:02

it. and I skip days and I skip fucking therapy days. Yay.

1:18:04

I don't really wanna do this. My

1:18:07

guns aren't my guns aren't

1:18:09

looking super vascular. So we'll just hit those

1:18:11

again. But you gotta you gotta do the work. You gotta put in,

1:18:13

you know, that that exercise to develop

1:18:15

that mental IQ. You

1:18:18

know, that mental toughness. if you will. And toughness is the wrong word, though. To

1:18:21

I mean, we're all mentally tough, but

1:18:23

it's turning and looking in the

1:18:25

mirror and going, I'm

1:18:28

fucked up. Let me figure out how to do this. And

1:18:30

what I've found is when I say shit out loud, it helps a lot -- Yeah. -- and people

1:18:32

know exactly where you're at, and

1:18:34

all of a sudden you're relating.

1:18:36

a guy, I met a buddy of my

1:18:38

mic, different mic about a year ago. And the first time I met him, I

1:18:41

was in the parking

1:18:43

lot at Black

1:18:44

Rifle. great place

1:18:45

to transition. Not like the transition, you know, from the military

1:18:47

or military service and, you know, learn these

1:18:49

civilian things and project management and things

1:18:52

like that. But

1:18:55

he looked at me and he was like, oh, yeah. You wanna grab some lunch?

1:18:57

And I'm like, nah. I'm good. He's like, oh, are

1:18:59

you one of those fasting dudes? I was like,

1:19:01

yeah, kinda he's like and he's

1:19:03

asking me about it. And I go, I I

1:19:05

eat dinner in second dinner. That's it. And then he's like, what the fuck

1:19:07

I go? I exuded immense amount of control

1:19:09

over my diet and exercise because

1:19:12

the rest of my life

1:19:14

is completely out of control and I can't control those things and it's it's really a problem. He was like,

1:19:19

the oh, you're

1:19:20

massively fucked up just like me. So now if we

1:19:22

could talk about those things, you know, just saying it out loud and saying, hey, I'm struggling

1:19:26

or I have a problem. that buddy that sent me that paper that white

1:19:28

paper on operator syndrome. Same type

1:19:30

of dude, you know, Jeremy. I'll

1:19:32

call him up. Hey dude,

1:19:34

what's going on with you? because

1:19:37

it's someday I wanna be somebody's wrong. Right.

1:19:39

I wanna feel that energy in the

1:19:41

universe or whatever the

1:19:43

fuck. The most it's stressful

1:19:45

because I'm, like, bro, first of all, like, I'm not a counselor. And I get

1:19:47

calls, like, like, may or

1:19:50

may not have taken

1:19:52

something Yeah. Yeah.

1:19:54

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can call me, and I'm trying to say that it was a fucked up situation. So

1:19:59

but it's so fulfilling,

1:20:02

man. Like, I get calls all the time. I I've had two, I think, last week.

1:20:05

the last week

1:20:06

yeah,

1:20:08

two last week and one the week before.

1:20:10

And I'm like, bro, first of all, I'm not a counselor, but you

1:20:12

wanna you wanna get you

1:20:14

wanna get better? Number one, you

1:20:17

wanna do something about it. You know, are you

1:20:19

willing to actually commit to something? Are you here just to you know, and fine too. You know, I'll

1:20:21

I'll listen to you if it's

1:20:24

gonna help. For

1:20:26

sure. But you need to fix this after today. There's

1:20:28

gotta be some steps that you're, like, willing

1:20:30

to take. You know what I mean? Well,

1:20:32

I don't I don't like when guys are afraid

1:20:35

of, like, taking meds or what I had a buddy call

1:20:37

me up and he goes to you. I was trying not to take meds,

1:20:39

but fuck they put me on him. They said, like, give it a year, see if you can do

1:20:41

some counseling in that. And then if you wanna

1:20:43

wean off or whatever, he

1:20:46

was like, I feel fucking great. My mind is a

1:20:48

little calmer. I'm able to focus a little bit more. Those

1:20:50

aren't as low, the highs aren't as great. So

1:20:53

I tell people on the meds, I was like, I went twelve years, dude.

1:20:55

I would go to my primary care. I didn't wanna lose my clearance. I didn't wanna lose my job. Yeah. My livelihood. Yeah. I'd never

1:20:57

said anything because I'm like, I I went in there.

1:20:59

I was like, crying

1:21:03

to my my primary care. I was like, I'm so fucked, dude. Yep.

1:21:05

And he's like, what is wrong with this guy? Like,

1:21:07

he doesn't see this shit. He's

1:21:09

not a psychiatrist. But I

1:21:12

was I need something to sleep, dude. I'm not sleeping.

1:21:14

I fucking have anxiety. I didn't tell him I was suicidal because

1:21:16

I was, like, I didn't wanna get Baker

1:21:18

acted. You know, it was, like, he's, like,

1:21:21

didn't even ask me because he's not that

1:21:23

kind of And I he's I'm give like, antidepressants. they are you he's

1:21:25

like how many be some like I'm

1:21:28

like, no. Yeah. Well, it'll might

1:21:30

fuck your dick up. And I was like, well, I'm not taking that. For sure now. It's so subtle. It makes sense. Like,

1:21:32

you try to give

1:21:35

me a kill myself? So it

1:21:37

didn't but then there's all these other different there's alternatives. If

1:21:39

you tell people what your concerns are like

1:21:42

I did two years

1:21:44

ago, I said, fine. I'll do it

1:21:46

because my the other option is I'm gonna end up doing this one of these times, like, it's gonna it's gonna happen.

1:21:48

Yep. You know, I

1:21:51

was so worried that wasn't

1:21:53

gonna make it even when we started the documentary

1:21:55

in January. I said, bro, I really wanna do this thing, but if I end up I don't

1:21:57

know that I'm gonna make

1:21:59

it this year. not

1:22:02

because of the cancer, but because of myself. And

1:22:04

that was our first interview. I said,

1:22:06

I if I don't make it,

1:22:08

I want you to sounds fucked up

1:22:10

because I was joke I was laughing, but I

1:22:12

was completely serious. I said, if I end up fucking off of myself, bro,

1:22:14

like, I want you to finish this thing and exploit

1:22:19

the shit out of me is a, you know, is

1:22:21

a cautionary tale for dudes watching

1:22:23

because, you know, that

1:22:25

would be gold. as fucked up as that

1:22:27

sound, but that's where my head was in

1:22:30

January when we started. And since then,

1:22:32

I've been forced

1:22:34

into all these uncomfortable positions, and

1:22:36

it's progressively getting better and

1:22:38

better through that process. And

1:22:41

and Yeah. I've

1:22:43

helped other people because I said, dude, because what do you wanna

1:22:45

do for this? Like, what's what's success? Said I

1:22:47

don't know, bro. I'm like, I haven't

1:22:49

worked in a year and a half

1:22:51

because I've got dealing with cancer and going to

1:22:54

the doctor every day. I just went to have an echo yesterday and got injected with a bunch

1:22:56

of weird stuff.

1:22:59

And, you know,

1:23:00

no

1:23:01

I just think it's

1:23:02

a if we can help save one life, that's my fucking goal. Okay. Like, if

1:23:05

I spend a bunch of money

1:23:07

and we save one life, fucking

1:23:11

human life worth a hundred grand and a two hundred grand. This is

1:23:13

like a drop in the bucket, dude. And so

1:23:15

we still funded this documentary.

1:23:18

We're calling BrothersKeeper documentary. for

1:23:21

the last eight months, which hasn't been easy. Like, my producer hasn't got paid a

1:23:23

dime. Like, he's been doing all this. Like, we

1:23:25

went to Nashville four

1:23:28

times Texas. went

1:23:30

to Savannah. We've been all over Jed

1:23:32

setting o Oklahoma to my

1:23:34

body, which was very difficult. That was

1:23:36

a bad interview for me. But I

1:23:39

was, like, you know, hey, dude. Now we gotta do some

1:23:41

fundraising. So we're kind of in that phase. Like, we

1:23:43

need to put together a very

1:23:48

for these types of things, and all I wanna

1:23:50

do is a good job because the the more

1:23:52

people that kind

1:23:55

of follow this journey. I wanna make it into

1:23:57

inspire people not be, like, I tell people, Mike, who wants to watch a

1:23:59

documentary on Veterans suicide on

1:24:02

a Friday night with the

1:24:04

wife? He gets popcorn. Yeah. That's what?

1:24:06

This shit. I know this dude. Oh, he's fucked up. So I wanna make it, like,

1:24:11

even now, like, I'm gonna have surgery in ten days. They're gonna take my

1:24:13

fucking lower low for my right lung out.

1:24:15

And I don't know

1:24:17

how that's gonna be because I've had other know, I

1:24:19

had the biopsy, but I've never this done. I know it's gonna be a

1:24:21

kick in the dick. I told him Daniel to,

1:24:24

like, stick a camera in my face, dude.

1:24:26

I wanna show you how I can smile

1:24:28

with fuck it. Like, I

1:24:30

might have bloody smile. I don't know. But as

1:24:32

long as I don't get COVID during that first week, I'll

1:24:34

be good. Yeah. I wanna do show people

1:24:38

physically, then that could be the cancer crowd.

1:24:40

Hey, dude. This is what you physically

1:24:42

can do through adversity. I don't have

1:24:44

a femur. I don't

1:24:46

have right hip, clue, quad. the lower

1:24:48

right, low low with my lung. I'm old, you know,

1:24:50

I'm forty nine now. I'm not young. But I wanna do, like I

1:24:53

wanna show people physically what I can do

1:24:55

in the next six months and

1:24:58

that can inspire people in a

1:25:00

different course, but it's all mental toughness.

1:25:02

And then through the documentary, I wanna

1:25:05

show you guys, like, yeah. I've

1:25:07

been in a fucked up situation mentally.

1:25:09

I've been very successful on the

1:25:11

outside, but I

1:25:13

i'm going

1:25:15

wanna inspire people look at all

1:25:17

the successes that have happened since we started this. You know, dudes that have come

1:25:19

out the other side and figure shit out. What

1:25:22

what did you

1:25:24

do like, how did you get through

1:25:26

this dark time? And how are how are you

1:25:27

now not fighting those demons

1:25:29

like you

1:25:30

were a year ago? Right.

1:25:33

I get after it, man. We hear the definition of what this

1:25:35

podcast is. So when Evan brought me on, I was like, you don't

1:25:38

need me. I'm just

1:25:40

another. dumbass. You

1:25:42

know, you got cooler dudes, but I'm in this stable of humans. And he said, what do you wanna do? And I said, I want

1:25:44

a campus that teaches people

1:25:46

how to deal with this shit.

1:25:50

And by campus, I mean, likes the lake ganglion blocks and

1:25:53

float tanks and meditation and, like,

1:25:55

all the holistic shit. But now there's

1:25:57

all the research and that white papers

1:25:59

and whatnot on, like, silocybin and ketamine liking

1:26:01

all -- Yeah. -- all that fucking shit. So I

1:26:03

find I use this platform

1:26:06

now to talk about this

1:26:08

shit. when I get introduced to

1:26:10

you, I'm like, yeah, I wanna talk about that.

1:26:12

Because, you know, we we reach, you know, thirty thousand, sixty

1:26:14

thousand, whoever hears it, if you can save one,

1:26:16

you can see then

1:26:18

you've done the right thing. You know, you've put the

1:26:20

message out here. And we

1:26:22

inspire, inform, and entertain. That's kind

1:26:24

of the mission statement for the podcast, and I

1:26:26

think that you're doing all of that. because you're

1:26:28

finding motherfuckers. That helps. Yeah. Well, I'm like, I just feel

1:26:30

like this platform has been more like I I

1:26:33

I've done these other I started I've

1:26:35

never done one before. I

1:26:38

almost like, I told you I almost had

1:26:40

a freaking panic. Like, I did have a panic attack on my first

1:26:42

two. And it didn't matter if there's one person or ten people.

1:26:46

I can't do this, man. Like,

1:26:48

I am and I grinded through that

1:26:50

thing, man. I was like, you know, how

1:26:52

you could start the world's closes in on Yeah.

1:26:54

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. everyone gets real far away, and I'm gonna ever get that one. Hey, Marcus. Hey, Marcus with

1:26:57

Trail. My second

1:26:59

podcast is, like, Oh, shit. Why

1:27:01

don't I just jump into Joe Rogen on this? Right? So it's progressively gotten

1:27:03

better, but that's that's the analogy to the

1:27:05

mental health. If you put the work

1:27:08

and you gets

1:27:10

progressively easy. Now I'm like, dude, I gotta let

1:27:13

people know my personality because I don't you

1:27:15

know, with the cancer stuff, MPTS, like,

1:27:17

I joke about both like, there's super serious

1:27:19

topics. Right? And I don't wanna, like, discount -- Absolutely.

1:27:21

-- people I've known so many people

1:27:23

died of cancer,

1:27:26

of course. And you know, a serious topic, but I'm like, hey,

1:27:29

dude. You gotta make, like, shit.

1:27:31

Life's fucking interesting, man. Like, you

1:27:33

can't make a win. Like, this

1:27:35

is my personality. Like, I

1:27:38

am very self deprecating when it comes to all this stuff, man. So if I can get through it anyway, you can get through it, the

1:27:44

the sharpest spoon

1:27:46

in the drawer? It's as sharp as hammer in

1:27:49

the back. I think is what

1:27:51

it is. Nice inspirational, man. And

1:27:53

and it's it's awesome that you're

1:27:55

just vocal about it. Because if you talk

1:27:57

about it and somebody goes as a super rad dude, cool career, done a million

1:27:59

cool jobs. And that guy saying, yes,

1:28:03

I struggle. you even during the documentary, even during the

1:28:05

thing that you're trying to inspire people with,

1:28:07

you're struggling, and

1:28:10

you're saying that shit out loud. I think that lets other people go, you know

1:28:12

what? Maybe it's alright if I say something. Maybe

1:28:14

I can say, no matter what it is.

1:28:16

You know what I

1:28:18

mean? Call somebody. Like fuck. I've

1:28:20

been in some dark places and I like,

1:28:22

call my dad, hey, I'm kind of fucked up man. Like, I'm in a bad way

1:28:25

in saying it

1:28:28

out loud. you have to own it and

1:28:30

then you're accountable for it. And then other people can help you, you know, so they should say some positive things. But

1:28:32

there's so many

1:28:34

tools out there. So super

1:28:36

pumped that you're doing this documentary, it seems like, well, now that

1:28:38

we've met, we've chatted a little bit, I feel like it's gonna be

1:28:42

the the rawest version

1:28:44

of all those things in conjunction with

1:28:46

your survival story to this day with cancer and everything out.

1:28:49

Like, don't fucking

1:28:51

check out, man. you know, you're

1:28:53

insane. on a band. I'm a I'm

1:28:56

a I'm a stubborn motherfucker, dude. My plan

1:28:58

is I wanna be in six months

1:29:00

in better physical shape than I am now.

1:29:02

I'm gonna be losing a couple things. Yeah. You

1:29:04

know, it adds up. There's a toll

1:29:06

to the surgeries. But mentally, I wanna

1:29:08

be even be better than I am

1:29:11

now. I wanna be stronger. So I'm

1:29:13

going into this thing just

1:29:15

as I'm gonna try to keep a a

1:29:19

super strong mental push. And I know the

1:29:21

first two days out of surgery. I know I'm gonna get kicked in the dick as I mentioned. No.

1:29:24

After that

1:29:28

second day, especially the first week, you know

1:29:30

how dudes are like, you always have those friends in our communities in the military through, like,

1:29:36

eight, you know, don't be a bitch.

1:29:38

You know? Yeah. I'm like, hey. Hold those off for the first week after one of the flood in.

1:29:40

You can shoot me Chris

1:29:42

Gathers at Instagram. You know? shoot

1:29:46

me like, hey. Don't be a piece of shit, you know. Don't quit. Did you did you just put blood in the I

1:29:48

have your personal numbers. So on the

1:29:50

twenty first, I'm gonna be like pussy.

1:29:55

I told Daniel I was like, hey, man. I haven't had one

1:29:57

troll yet, man. I guess that

1:29:59

means nobody. Like, where's that

1:30:01

troll? And it I'll

1:30:03

troll you. Dude, I'm not

1:30:06

gonna respond to you. Yeah. Fuck off. Don't read the comments.

1:30:08

Yeah, dude. I'm I'm actually looking

1:30:10

forward because it's like the next

1:30:14

chapter. Right? So we just

1:30:16

need help at this point of the documentary. What we're

1:30:18

we just started so I set up A501C3

1:30:22

called the BrothersKeeper

1:30:24

Veterans Foundation, which is

1:30:26

a right now, it's a

1:30:29

mechanism to help people that wanted to to

1:30:31

help us out with the fundraising campaign. So

1:30:33

we have a landing page called we are brother's keeper

1:30:35

dot com. It's brothers

1:30:39

with an s. And,

1:30:42

you know, people can go on there

1:30:44

if you donate, it is a tax exempt. But what I

1:30:46

would love to do is I wanna fund the documentary

1:30:51

through that mechanism. When we finish that, what I

1:30:54

wanna do is create legacy because, you

1:30:56

know, something that

1:30:58

lives beyond me. Right? So

1:31:01

hopefully, in a perfect world, that foundation will continue to

1:31:03

raise money and simply pull that out to

1:31:05

other for profit

1:31:07

or nonprofit businesses that

1:31:10

are doing real true work to battle the twenty two a day. And I wanna small

1:31:12

with maybe just

1:31:15

one or two strategic partners

1:31:18

that we're helping fund even if it was,

1:31:20

like, four or five grand a year. Okay. I wanna see where that

1:31:22

money goes, how it's spent. I'm not taking any money from

1:31:25

i'm

1:31:25

making any money from documentary. There's no that is

1:31:27

not the point of it. I'm not taking

1:31:30

any money. It's all been out of

1:31:32

pocket. But with the foundation

1:31:34

same thing, I'm not even taking

1:31:36

there's no salary as of why I don't been

1:31:38

I'd wanna do this properly simply to help other dudes

1:31:42

that are suffering because

1:31:44

you know, I might not be around

1:31:46

very long, realistically. You know, I'm gonna do my damnedest, but it'll be super rad

1:31:51

if this thing goes on for I'm already setting it

1:31:53

up for succession. You know,

1:31:55

the documentary is my primary focus

1:31:57

right now because it's like, hey.

1:31:59

I don't wanna get too

1:32:01

far downstream. So that's where my head's at is, like, I just wanna do a good job on this and reach

1:32:03

as many people as

1:32:08

possible. Right? So this will

1:32:10

be coming out next year. It's all predicated on, you know, the team that we bring

1:32:12

in as far as doing the

1:32:14

wrap up, but the launch at

1:32:18

you know, early early next year

1:32:21

is the is the goal. So

1:32:23

we'll stay tuned. That's

1:32:25

fucking awesome, man. So one more time, I think that's a great

1:32:28

place to wrap. I love your mission

1:32:30

statement. I love everything else. Tell them

1:32:32

where they can

1:32:34

find the foundation, the name again. Yeah. We

1:32:36

are brother's keeper dot com is the landing

1:32:38

page. If you wanna get involved, we're

1:32:41