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Actually, in my.

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I've always looked at any sector that I've been interested

0:41

in as how do I get in there and find

0:43

my place in this space?

0:44

Right?

0:44

I think, especially for a lot of

0:46

us that come from our communities, you

0:49

don't see yourself in certain situations, so you

0:51

think it's not for you, right or you think, oh, man, I don't

0:53

have a background that matches what I've seen traditionally,

0:56

So let me go look somewhere else and where I've

0:59

kind of always approached it like, well,

1:01

if I don't see me in a certain area,

1:03

that's an opportunity. Let me go in there and make

1:05

a space for me, and I can bring other people

1:07

with me. Now I can build a motor around what I do because nobody

1:09

here can can can match my skill set.

1:14

I'm Will Lucas and this is Black Tech,

1:16

Green Money. I want to introduce

1:18

you to some of the biggest names, some of the brightest

1:20

minds and brilliant ideas.

1:22

If you're black and building.

1:23

For simply using text to secure your back, this

1:26

podcast is feel Andrew

1:33

Hawkins aka Hawk, is

1:35

a former NFL wide receiver for having played

1:37

six seasons in the league with teams like the Bengals,

1:39

the Browns, and the Patriots. Today's

1:41

immedia personality and co founder of

1:44

status Pro, an athlete led

1:46

technology company which makes software

1:48

for training and consumer entertainment. Status

1:51

Pro has raised more than five million dollars in both

1:53

of enviable list of infastors like Lebron,

1:55

James, Yo, Miosak, mav Card

1:58

Drake, and others. Post

2:00

company is set to release NFL Pro Era,

2:02

a VR game from Metaquest in PlayStation,

2:05

the first officially licensed NFL

2:07

VR title. I has

2:09

talked with so many games becoming more lifelike.

2:12

How important is real player data

2:15

to the experience of gameplay?

2:17

I think if we're going to drill in on what you authenticity

2:20

looks like in a gaming environment,

2:22

it is important, you know, for people to really

2:24

experience the speed of certain things. Now,

2:27

obviously we want to slow it down for people to have fun,

2:29

that's the chief goal of anything we do from

2:31

a gaming product standpoint, but the

2:33

ability to ramp up and really see

2:35

how fast decisions need to be made when

2:37

you're talking about an immersive world like virtual

2:39

reality, we think it's super important.

2:42

Right, So we're gonna give you all the bells and whistles

2:44

of the feeling you get in the tunnel when you're

2:46

running out onto the field, and all

2:48

the hoop lie and

2:50

the kind of man, what if moments that people

2:52

think about when they think of playing professional sports.

2:54

But we're also gonna give you the actual data on

2:56

the other side of it too, And I think it just helps rope in the

2:59

entire loop of authenticity

3:01

that we kind of preach a status.

3:02

Pro does that mean more than just the numbers,

3:05

But Also, if a QB is slower,

3:07

then the player in the game will actually

3:09

be slower too.

3:12

Yes, so it's something we'll build upon.

3:14

I think, you know, I mean, I

3:16

think VR in itself is it's it's a

3:18

it's an emerging tech, and so we understand

3:20

that our game maybe the first time a lot of people even

3:23

experience VR, right,

3:25

and so we're trying to make sure the product matures

3:27

alongside the consumer. But to

3:29

your point, yeah, that I mean, there's really an endless

3:31

amount of data that we can put

3:33

into our AI, which we've done so in

3:36

a.

3:36

Very pointed way from.

3:38

You know, what plays a specific team would run,

3:40

what kind of defenses. This is a coach like to

3:42

call, right, And we've had the luxury

3:45

of building that AI and machine learning

3:47

and from the very beginning, and so it's going to mature

3:50

with the more data sets that are available,

3:52

you know, and we use a number of those things, including

3:55

player speeds and data. And to your point that,

3:57

you know, when you embody a

4:01

player, eventually you

4:03

will match the attributes that

4:05

they are as a player. And this first version

4:08

we've kind of really draw down on you as the quarterback,

4:10

so you will be the quarterback of your favorite

4:12

team as opposed to taking on the attributes of other

4:14

players.

4:15

But that's absolutely in the pipeline.

4:18

So every coach quarterback believes

4:20

they could have made that pass at the quarterback

4:22

blue, you know, on Sunday

4:25

Football whatever, Monday Night football.

4:27

Like, part of your effort, I believe is

4:29

to help better understand what it takes to compete

4:31

at the highest levels. You know, as you know,

4:33

playing a first person game

4:36

from a first person.

4:37

Perspective, does this help solve

4:39

that?

4:39

Like, so all those people who believe, ah Man

4:41

I could have made that, you know, does

4:43

this help solve that problem for

4:45

real athletes?

4:46

I would say yes and no. I would say yes

4:48

and no.

4:49

I think we use it on the training side,

4:51

right, so we could simulate that decision

4:53

making for an NFL quarterback and things will move

4:56

almost one to one at the speed that you would see

4:58

in an actual game. But if if people

5:01

had the ability to process information and

5:03

make those decisions that way, they wouldn't

5:05

need a VR game to feel what it's like to be a NFL quarterback,

5:07

because you would be that right, And even by

5:09

NFL quarterback standards, there are quarterbacks

5:12

that are starting quarterbacks that can't make

5:14

decisions and process as fast

5:16

as Tom Brady, right. So it's definitely

5:19

a sliding scale. And so you know,

5:21

we can simulate that for elite level

5:23

athletes to be able to get as close to a one

5:25

to one experience as

5:28

we can get. But I think for the gaming side of things,

5:30

man, I mean, we want to have it fun.

5:31

Like I said, that is our chief goal with

5:33

that. And yeah, it'll be intense.

5:35

You'll definitely get the feel of all

5:37

the different factors that go in on

5:39

every single play, and you will probably have a higher

5:41

respect for quarterbacks.

5:43

But if you're not having fun, you're not going to come

5:45

back.

5:45

So we definitely slow it down a little bit

5:48

so that we can keep you coming back for more.

5:50

So I've heard you say this a couple of times. You know

5:51

that you really want to help keep people

5:54

getting understanding for how fast the game moves

5:56

for people who won't will never have that experience

5:59

of being in a grid

6:01

iron. Talk about if you can make it relatable

6:03

to us, you know, how fast

6:06

the game actually moves versus what we see

6:08

sitting in the seats.

6:11

Yeah, and like I said, man, I'm gonna keep drilling

6:13

down on this. The speed of the game is ridiculous,

6:16

man, Like I mean, it's I would

6:18

say, in snap second, you have to make decisions,

6:20

and it's honestly even faster than that. So that's

6:22

why you practice so much. You practice so much in

6:24

a professional sports environment so

6:26

that your instincts kick in and that

6:28

way you can react even faster than it takes for you to

6:30

cognitively think of what to do next.

6:33

But in the gaming for everybody, I

6:35

think the thing that you'll get most out of the experience

6:38

that we're creating with NFL Pro Era is that

6:41

you just really can see all the factors and it

6:43

is very gratifying to make a play. It's

6:45

gratifying to you

6:47

know, complete a pass or throw a touchdown or get

6:49

a first down when you consider all

6:52

the different factors that are into a game.

6:53

And so it won't be the speeds

6:56

of an NFL game.

6:57

And you have the ability to ramp it up or ramp it down,

6:59

but again, all the different factors

7:02

that go into each and every game, and the

7:04

experience of the screaming fans. You get the high

7:06

points, you get the huge dn

7:08

coming right at you, and that's scary in and of itself.

7:10

So you have to think.

7:11

About what do I do now in the face

7:13

of the most fearful looking

7:15

human coming at me at car like

7:18

speeds. Right, And so that's the really

7:20

cool part is that that hasn't been democratized

7:22

before and us being able to

7:25

us being former athletes, and being able to put

7:27

other people in those shoes is

7:29

a really cool thing because you get to show people

7:32

the experience that you have had your whole

7:34

life and may even be a second nature

7:36

to you.

7:37

Let's talk about this leap you've made, because there's not

7:39

a lot of athletes who make the leap

7:41

from professional sports into high

7:44

tech, and so if you can give

7:47

the bridge for us, like how you got here

7:49

versus where you were, and we're going to talk about your

7:52

sports career, but I want to talk about how you made

7:54

that leap.

7:56

Well, I mean that's a great question, and I think they all

7:58

kind of tie in together. I would say, how

8:00

I got to tech, you

8:02

know, high tech where I'm at from

8:05

my career was that I

8:07

feel like in tech tech is you know, I talk

8:09

about this democratizing and experience, and

8:11

I think I've always looked at any sector that

8:13

I've been interested in as how do I get

8:16

in there and find my place in this space, right.

8:18

I think, especially for a lot of

8:20

us that come from our communities, you

8:22

don't see yourself in certain situations, so you

8:24

think it's not for you, right, or you think, oh, man, I don't

8:26

have a background I'm at matches what I've seen traditionally,

8:30

So let me go look somewhere else, and where I've

8:32

kind of always approached it like, well,

8:34

if I don't see me in a certain area,

8:37

that's an opportunity. Let me go in there and make

8:39

a space for me, and I could bring other people

8:41

with me number one and number two. Now

8:43

I can build a motor around what I do because nobody here can

8:46

match my skill set. And so you know,

8:48

when I was playing, it was that same thing. It

8:50

was like I saw an opportunity that you know,

8:52

I felt like me being

8:54

an athlete and wanting to

8:56

work in sports business. Even prior to

8:59

me playing professional football, there

9:01

was no value add from the fact that I was

9:03

an athlete. There was nothing to say like, well, what about

9:06

your experience makes it special here?

9:07

And so I was like, I'm gonna have to create

9:09

that.

9:10

I'm gonna have to create a way to

9:12

value the expertise to somebody who has seen

9:14

this from the ground level and

9:16

build a company that way, you know. And so

9:18

that's what originally got me there, And as

9:21

you would imagine, there was a long road of

9:23

slowly putting the pieces together to get to where

9:25

we are today.

9:26

And I'm glad you said that, because you know, we've heard these

9:28

horror stories of athletes who you

9:30

know, make a bunch of money and then they got boys

9:33

who want to start businesses and invest in

9:35

a whole bunch of real estate that don't get scoped

9:37

out and do no due diligence and

9:39

you know, rim shops and the whole thing.

9:42

So can you talk about how, from

9:45

your perspective, how athletes are getting smarter?

9:47

Maybe it's the people around them so

9:49

that they're making better decisions with their capital

9:52

and to deploy that for actual wealth generation

9:55

when they're off the field.

9:57

I think the enormous changed. And I think, you

9:59

know, that was always even my goal with

10:01

what I was doing. I wanted to, you know, hopefully

10:04

show other people that may be in a similar

10:06

situation of mind to be like, well, if he can do that

10:08

with his resources, or he can do that with

10:10

his stature of like profile

10:12

of athletes, imagine what I could do with

10:15

mine, right, And I think you see in a shift where

10:17

before it was we

10:20

want our athletes just to be athletes. We

10:22

want them to focus on football,

10:24

focus on basketball, focus on

10:26

baseball, track boxing, whatever it

10:28

is, and that's what we That is the norm,

10:30

and anybody who does anything outside of that

10:32

was looked at sideways. Well, I think now in

10:35

this age of more than an athlete and

10:37

a lot of the work that has been done

10:39

and shown by athletes, from them being

10:42

activists, them being investors,

10:44

them going back to school and all these things.

10:46

Now you look at an athlete that only does their

10:48

sport and you kind of look at them sideways, like,

10:50

yo, what are you waiting on?

10:51

You better get going. This window is closing.

10:54

And I think you know that kind

10:56

of maturation of

10:58

what the norm is for an athlete league has

11:01

shifted a lot of things for

11:03

the industry.

11:04

What's making the norm change? Is it just

11:06

representation to people like you?

11:09

I think everything develops. I think everything people

11:11

get smarter in any scenario. So if you look

11:13

at me right, like I think people sometimes

11:16

think, oh man, this is a really smart guy because

11:18

he was able to do certain things. And I am smart. I

11:21

do believe that. But at the same time, I come

11:23

from a family of athletes. I'm a third generation athlete,

11:25

right. My grandfather was a boxer.

11:28

My dad played Division one football

11:30

and signed D one. My older brother played ten years

11:32

in the National Football I got cousins, And so I've

11:34

seen those horror stories you've talked about.

11:36

I've seen them up close and personal. And I've

11:38

always approached sport like a business, right,

11:40

And I've seen where a sport could use somebody

11:43

up and there's nothing

11:45

to show for it, you know. And so for me, when I went

11:47

through my experience, it was like, well, I'm gonna

11:49

do it this way. And because

11:51

I seen somebody else make mistakes, I

11:53

can kind of take those answers to the test

11:56

and re craft it for myself, and I think

11:58

for everybody else it's much the same.

12:00

And now when you look at your peers, you

12:04

could see the benefit of it. Like my

12:07

goal after five years of playing, I'm coming up

12:09

on five years of after retirement, I wanted

12:11

to I wanted people to know me and not

12:13

know that I played professional football. That was a goal that I

12:16

had when I retired, you know. And it's

12:18

really cool now for people to say that and see

12:21

like, oh, man, I didn't know he played in the NFL.

12:23

That's crazy, right, that's because I'm hitting

12:25

that goal.

12:25

And I think for other players, they see

12:27

that and they build upon it, right, And it's like, well, I want

12:29

to be known for something more than what

12:31

people are defining or is my

12:33

skill set or what people may have known me for the start.

12:36

The institution that surrounds

12:39

athletes when they come in the league young, and

12:41

we've heard you know, horror stories around like you know, player

12:44

associations, and they weren't always set up to

12:46

help people thrive outside

12:48

of the field, Aull side of the court.

12:50

Are they are.

12:51

Player associations in your experience across

12:53

all major sports? Are they what's

12:56

happening for them to do better to protect and

12:58

help educate those young athletes to come

13:00

in with little financial experience often

13:03

and little you know, familiar

13:05

resources to protect them.

13:08

Man, that's a great question. I think I think more

13:10

can always be done, right. I think,

13:12

you know, like I said, as an athletes get smarter

13:14

as the game changes, and right now it's the wild, wild

13:17

West, man. I mean, you've got college athletes making tens

13:19

of millions of dollars in IL right and signing

13:21

for deals that you know, quite

13:23

frankly, I barely made as a professional athlete,

13:26

you know, And so it's happened earlier

13:28

and earlier in the process. And

13:31

so players associations

13:33

or anything set up

13:35

to aid and in athletes development,

13:38

they have a lot of work to

13:40

do to kind of catch up in that process,

13:43

you know. I think for young athletes, I always

13:45

tell them they, man, take your time. It took a

13:47

very long time for you to make your money. I know, it seems

13:49

like a nineteen or twenty two or whatever it

13:52

is that the money came fast, But this

13:54

is a lifelong process. You started playing basketball

13:56

or football when you were eight years old. That's

13:58

that's a that's a decade, you know, And so it

14:00

would be silly to not try

14:03

to put that same kind of work in of how you should deploy

14:05

that capital, how you should protect that capital, how

14:08

you should spend that capital, or where you should

14:10

develop your skills outside of it, to make sure you're making

14:12

the most out of that capital or that opportunity.

14:15

And unfortunately, in sports, athletes

14:19

are opportunities because they

14:21

have the least amount of experience, but

14:24

they have the most amount of money. And if you've

14:26

ever tried to convince anybody to give you money. It's a

14:28

hard process, and the easiest

14:30

people to convince to give you money are

14:32

people that don't know much as much about the

14:34

value or haven't had the experience of

14:38

understanding how hard it really was for them to get

14:40

that. And so to your point, there should

14:42

be more of a protection coming from

14:44

people that are in this space, especially

14:46

for a lot of the kids, like I said, that come from our communities, or

14:48

black and brown faces that don't come from a lot of finances.

14:52

You know, I think more things should be in place not only

14:54

to protect, but also teach and mature

14:57

and not make them choices. And it's tough

14:59

to make people with a lot of mone do certain

15:01

things. At the same time, it's so

15:03

important in the overall and longevity

15:06

of their development and their protection of

15:08

this incredible opportunity that is playing professional

15:11

sports.

15:11

Yeah, I mean, I love that answer because

15:13

I was I was gonna ask this question. I'm gonna ask it, but you just

15:15

gave me a little slight twist to the question

15:18

I'm.

15:18

Going to ask.

15:19

Because you've got this diamond list of investors

15:22

who who've put money in your

15:24

own business, people like lebron Naomi

15:27

Osaka, drake A, Jimmy

15:29

I, Beme av Carter Minim anymore. But

15:32

it's an all star list of investors.

15:36

And I would imagine because we have this conversation,

15:38

these people are more than just deep pockets,

15:40

but there's some other use that

15:43

they provide to the business, because you can probably

15:45

get money in a lot.

15:46

Of places, but you want specific help.

15:48

So can you talk.

15:49

About how they may or may not be

15:51

involved in helpful to the

15:54

company and to your mission.

15:57

Yeah, I mean I think there they've

15:59

been paying amount to the successes

16:01

not only my company. I would even say me professionally

16:04

a lot of those names, because you

16:06

know, like you said, these are people that are respected

16:09

business wise and the moves they make and the things

16:11

that they put their money in support behind,

16:13

and so that stamp of approval that

16:16

carries weight when you're going into certain rooms, you

16:18

know. I mean, we had venture capital

16:21

firms or investors or

16:23

companies that we've tried to partner with early on

16:25

that laught out of the room that are

16:27

now sending us emails once a week trying

16:30

to talk to us merely off the fact

16:32

of who's involved now. And I want to chase

16:34

what they're getting into because those people are successful,

16:37

you know, And I think we were very tactical

16:40

and strategic in that way

16:43

of just how we kind of approach them and understood

16:46

how do you make one plus one equal three? How do you understand

16:49

what people like that are looking, where they're looking

16:51

to go, and how you can aid in that thing. And again,

16:53

we are definitely the benefactors in that relationship.

16:57

But these are people that I've.

16:58

Worked with for

17:01

years, and I think the reputation

17:04

that I had with them went

17:07

a long way. And once it was time

17:09

to do our thing and we had an offering I

17:11

didn't they didn't have. They didn't question, which

17:13

is a big thing when you're investing, is well, how do you work?

17:15

How how much time are you going to put in?

17:18

How serious are you? Because of

17:20

what I had done for them and

17:23

in those moments, in my previous

17:26

work responsibilities, that was

17:28

out the gates, and now we could just look at the opportunity,

17:31

and the opportunity in and of itself speaks for itself.

17:33

Yeah, So let's talk about that because I'm interested because

17:35

there are so many people who would love

17:37

to have and see strategically strategic

17:40

reasons why a Drake on their

17:42

cap table makes sense or they on so

17:45

I can make sense for them.

17:47

How do you.

17:48

Position yourself to be successful when

17:50

you're trying to approach a celebrity investor?

17:54

If you're not, it's a good question. If

17:56

you're not, how

17:58

do you That's a good question, I would say, and

18:02

I kind of alluded to it, the one, the one plus

18:04

one equal in three.

18:05

Right.

18:07

Not every celebrity is going to be good

18:09

for your business.

18:13

Not every celebrity is gonna be good for your business. Not every celebrity

18:16

is going to make sense for your business, and vice

18:19

versa, you're not going to make sense for them, you

18:21

know. I mean, as all stars our roster

18:24

is, we've had celebrities tell us no, not my

18:26

thing, I'm good, right, even though we see the strategic

18:29

value. So

18:31

I think it's understanding and being very

18:33

self aware in that way

18:35

of how exactly this equation is going to come

18:37

together and to your

18:40

point, like making sure the value

18:42

of whatever you're looking to get matches

18:46

up well with what you already already have. We

18:49

didn't approach any of those names first.

18:51

They weren't the first people we went to, you

18:53

know, And I think a lot of times

18:56

when you're approaching people of of high

18:58

name value, there has to be an offering,

19:00

like their name means something, and I think that's

19:03

why you approach them in the first place. And so whatever

19:05

the scenario is, the situation is, or the opportunity

19:08

is, it has to make sense.

19:09

For where they are.

19:10

And we were able to get some already really

19:12

good investors. They didn't have to take on a

19:14

brunt of the

19:17

public value and their namesake

19:20

to just carry the company solely on their backs,

19:22

and I think that matters, you know, So

19:25

it was I think it was getting the offering right first

19:27

before we approached them was probably

19:30

the best thing we could do. And in that it was the

19:32

opportunity for you know,

19:34

getting an NFL license. We had that opportunity

19:36

coming up lined up chasing it. You

19:39

know, we had discussions with some of the

19:41

platforms in the VR companies who can kind

19:44

of confirm like, hey.

19:45

This is a big opportunity.

19:46

We had other VC firms that were

19:48

that were lined up incredible in the

19:51

space, and so I think all those things factored

19:53

in to us landing where we ultimately

19:55

did.

19:56

You know, I love that you said, you know, this

19:58

is one plus one equaling three. I remember

20:01

there's an interview mav car to have done with Magic

20:03

Johnson, and I don't know if you saw, but he was talking.

20:05

Magic was talking about like, you know, when you bring

20:07

me a deal.

20:08

It's got to be a big deal.

20:09

Because for the amount of work

20:12

I got to put in to make something go from

20:14

one hundred thousand to a million, I might as well go

20:16

from a million to a billion. It's the same amount of work.

20:18

So the deal size has to be

20:21

big enough. And so I'm

20:23

equating that with how you

20:25

pitched you know, pro era and

20:27

like status, Like how do you do that when

20:31

you're pitching a Drake who's

20:33

got, you know, enough money? Or is

20:35

there such thing as enough money? Who's got a lot

20:37

of money? Or Lebron who's got a lot of money,

20:40

And you know a

20:43

couple of zeros don't move the needle for them. So

20:45

how do you pitch the grand opportunity

20:47

here to people who already have.

20:50

All they you know, could need.

20:53

Yeah, that's another great question.

20:55

So I would say it in this way.

21:00

If you called me and say, hey, I want you to do my podcast

21:02

for and I'm gonna give you a dollar right now,

21:05

it's a deal. Now it's I'm gonna spend a certain amount

21:07

of time doing your podcast and

21:09

you're gonna give me a dollar, I'm gonna say no, right,

21:12

because that the work doesn't seem to match

21:14

what the dollar amount is. It's one dollar, right, I

21:16

could do other things to get a dollar. If you

21:18

said, hey, I'm gonna go do this podcast

21:21

with somebody else, and when

21:23

I do it, I'm gonna give you a dollar. If you give

21:25

me, you know, ten cent,

21:28

that sounds like it's worthy because I don't got to do much work for

21:30

that dollar. Right, it's on you. And if I think that you're gonna

21:32

do this podcast, and you got that podcast lined up, it's

21:35

scheduled and it's going no matter what,

21:37

and I don't have to do much that

21:40

That's what it means to be an investor. And I think a lot of

21:42

times people approach the athletes or

21:44

the celebrities or the big

21:46

time executives wanting them

21:49

to put the amount of work into their product

21:52

that a founder is doing. Now, there is

21:54

gonna be some over the top value, but there's value

21:56

already in the namesake, because that's why you're approaching

21:58

them in the first place. Because that is

22:00

not the same as their dollar because they have a name value

22:03

that also unlocks a lot of opportunities

22:05

for you. So that in and of itself is

22:08

worth the work, and you have to be able to know the

22:11

process and the plan for making

22:13

that work for you. So I think with me and

22:15

our investors specifically and

22:17

my partner Truy, who is amazing,

22:20

you know, I think that we are

22:22

just two guys that.

22:25

We come from nothing. We do

22:27

everything ourselves.

22:29

We don't expect much like the

22:31

terms of engagement are pretty straightforward. We're

22:33

going to do the work and as long as

22:36

an investor I feel like understands and sees

22:38

that, then they get to see the opportunity

22:40

because to the example

22:43

you use with Magic, there's not that

22:45

level of work that goes into it.

22:46

We're going to do the work.

22:49

And the moments we need you will give you a call,

22:51

but they'll know that man, they're calling me. It's

22:54

one of It's a situation that is

22:56

going to only multiply what the opportunity

22:58

is.

22:59

Can you just describe the timeline,

23:01

you know, between your enterprise product

23:03

that you licensed with NFL teams for their

23:06

actual training and then the consumer product that

23:08

will come out soon and

23:10

then the timeline alongside when

23:12

those investors came in, so did the

23:14

Lebrons and Naomi Osaka's come in when

23:16

they saw your enterprise product or this is

23:18

fire. We got to get it in the Cowboys

23:21

locker room, we gotta get it in the Lions locker

23:23

room, or they saw you had

23:25

that, and then they said there's consumer play

23:27

here. Can you talk about how that lined up?

23:31

Yeah, I would say they definitely came in for the opportunity

23:33

for the consumer play, but it all ties together.

23:36

So we started off on the

23:38

enterprise level working with NFL

23:40

teams to prepare them for NFL games, and

23:42

you know, that gave us a base foundation for our

23:45

technology and we just kind of continue to build

23:47

that because that was something we knew so and so inherently

23:49

from our experience of being athletes,

23:51

of knowing exactly how a receiver

23:54

could get better with this technology. Troy

23:56

is a quarterback, knowing how quarterback can get

23:58

better. You know, I've spent time as a coach as

24:00

a scout for the Detroit Lions, like understanding

24:03

how the technology could help organizations.

24:06

It helped us build a foundation

24:09

and then as the opportunities arise, we

24:11

know which way we can kind of craft and use

24:14

the foundation to go into other spaces.

24:16

And on the.

24:17

Consumer play, it was essentially

24:19

players would get in the headset and

24:22

they wouldn't take it off, and they were like, Yo, this is

24:24

fun, and that's not a statement

24:26

you hear from a player that's typically watching film.

24:28

This is fun and you're learning about what you're

24:30

going to see on a Sunday. So that was like the indicator for

24:33

us that we knew we had something there.

24:36

Because if a player who sees this scenario every

24:38

day and has for fifteen years, it's

24:41

saying that it's like it is on Sunday and

24:43

it's fun, imagine what a consumer

24:45

will play. So then, you know, after that was when we started

24:47

to communicate that and started to show

24:51

what the opportunity we felt was on the consumer

24:54

side. And you know, it's been years in the making.

24:56

Troy and I first connected, i want

24:58

to say, in twenty sixteen

25:00

or seventeen, and

25:03

here we are in twenty twenty two, you

25:05

know, so it's been it's been that long of a process,

25:07

that that long of us thinking about this craftiness,

25:10

letting the market do what it does, and then also relying

25:13

on a little bit of luck to put us in the right position.

25:16

So when you think about gamifying

25:18

things, let's talk about gaming and training,

25:21

you know, even at the consumer level, like,

25:23

how do you think gamifying

25:26

exercise and training?

25:28

You know, when I'm if you're bringing up a kid to be,

25:31

you know, an all star athlete, how

25:33

do you imagine gamifying that experience

25:36

in working out and training might evolve over

25:38

time?

25:40

I think it becomes second nature a little bit.

25:42

And there's a reason why we continue to drilling on

25:44

the fun aspect of it, because you

25:46

know, I view our consumers

25:49

early on in our consumer product which will be coming out

25:51

in fall twenty twenty two, they're

25:54

much like I have a ten year old son who

25:56

is obsessed with the game of football, naturally, because

25:59

again we come from a fan family of football players.

26:01

But I am anyone who knows me knows I

26:03

am not to push somebody to go play football

26:05

and do this and do that. It's not my thing. But

26:08

what happened was, you know, first,

26:10

you let him have fun with it. I'm not out

26:12

there making them run through drills

26:14

at seven years old and making them run stadium

26:17

steps to say, hey, you got a legacy. It's

26:19

not that you give him a ball and you let

26:21

him play catch with his dad, and he enjoys playing catch with

26:23

his dad and he's having fun, and because he has

26:25

fun in it, it motivates him to get

26:27

better. But he's passing the time by

26:29

having fun, but he's naturally becoming

26:31

better at what he's doing.

26:32

So I think when I look.

26:34

At the VR XR technology and specifically

26:36

what we're doing in gaming and the training opportunity

26:39

is I played football my whole life.

26:41

It kept me in shape.

26:42

As a thirty six year old man now who

26:44

is not playing football every day, it is a

26:46

lot harder for me to stay in shape and to focus

26:49

on actually being in shape. I

26:51

would love for a way for me to have fun in doing

26:53

it. And so when you think about XR

26:56

and training and that opportunity and getting better,

26:58

if gamifying it embeds

27:01

the fund right in it, and by

27:03

embedding the fund that becomes the chief focus.

27:05

Anytime you're having fun, that's kind of where your mind goes

27:07

to and you're not thinking about the calories you're

27:09

burning, You're not thinking about how you're learning

27:12

the sport, you're not thinking about how you're staying

27:14

fit on a day to day because the game

27:16

of it all is keeping your mind

27:18

occupied, and then everything

27:21

else becomes a value beyond.

27:22

That, you know.

27:23

I kind of asked a question similar to this when we

27:26

talked about, you know, getting a Lebron's

27:28

attention or Drake's attention.

27:30

But there are people who believe that their tech.

27:32

Is good enough to get licensed by

27:35

major partners, like you know, sports

27:38

teams in any category.

27:41

What levers do you imagine.

27:45

Are the fastest ways

27:47

to success.

27:48

To getting the meeting and also

27:50

being taken seriously?

27:51

Like what are the rolls for people who.

27:53

Are not getting not hawk you know, to

27:56

how do you pick up the phone and call the Detroit

27:59

Lions?

27:59

Like how does like, yeah, what happens

28:01

there? Where do I need to be? What conference?

28:03

Money to go to?

28:05

It's tough, It's tough.

28:07

I would say, a lot of it

28:09

is learning, learning

28:11

the industry, right, So I would love to think

28:13

that my name rings so many bells I could just pick

28:16

up the phone and call somebody and make it happen.

28:18

Unfortunately that wasn't the case.

28:19

Like I said, I started interning with the Detroit

28:21

Lions and two thousand and eight

28:25

I was a scouting intern, right and then

28:28

beyond that, I went and played in the Canadian

28:30

Football League, and throughout this whole process,

28:32

I'm shaking hands.

28:33

I'm taking meetings.

28:34

I'm telling people when I'm get done playing, i

28:36

want to do X, Y and Z in the off season. I'm

28:38

building out the marketing materials

28:41

for my sports agency, or for

28:43

my agent's sports agency for him, I'm

28:45

his marketing lead as well. I am also,

28:48

you know, applying to Octagon's internships.

28:51

I'm doing Under Armour's internships.

28:53

I'm going to.

28:54

Intern with Maverick Carter while

28:56

I'm the number one receiver for the

28:58

Cleveland Brownson an offseason. And it's not just

29:00

in nature like I'm getting coffee.

29:03

I'm people that I'm interning

29:05

with. It takes them a month and a half to know

29:07

that I play in the NFL. Because I'm doing

29:10

all the things naturally that an intern

29:12

would do. I'm setting those groundstick because I'm learning.

29:14

I want to see how the process works. I

29:16

want to shake the hands. I want to understand this

29:18

thing and come up with a plan and strategy

29:21

because in this business, specifically

29:23

in the sports business, you really only get

29:25

one opportunity at it, right, and

29:27

so it's probably not the best just to pick

29:30

up the phone and call the Detroit Lions, because

29:32

now they're always going to remember you just called the Detroit

29:34

Lions. You had no idea what our process was,

29:36

You don't know what our KPIs are, you don't

29:38

know the right people to talk to. You don't call it the scouting office

29:41

trying to get a licensing deal, right, And

29:43

so I would say engrossing yourself

29:46

in the area that you're looking to get

29:48

into and understand that it is very

29:51

hard to make those calls and get those deals,

29:53

and people are gonna want to see that you are

29:55

a subject matter expert in the space that you're

29:57

in. And I think that's what I've spent every

30:00

minute that I wasn't on a field over the last

30:02

decade. That's what I've spent doing, and

30:04

that's what my partner has been doing as well. And I think

30:07

we've benefited greatly that it was time for us

30:09

to do our thing. We had

30:11

a track record, We had connections that

30:13

people we connected with ten years ago are

30:16

now in a position to

30:18

make decisions or put us in the right place or confidently

30:20

say, Yo, you should talk to Troy, you

30:22

should talk to Hawk. Because I've

30:24

known them in their work for ten years and what they do and

30:26

what they're about, and it's at least worth hearing

30:29

them out.

30:29

So you did that.

30:32

So I'm excited about this game. I want

30:34

you to talk about it a little bit and like what makes

30:36

this metaquest and PlayStation VR

30:39

game unlike other football

30:41

arcade games, Like, you know, what's

30:43

the difference.

30:45

I mean, besides the fact that it's NFL license, which

30:48

is the big one, right, I

30:51

would say the insights from it. I mean,

30:53

this is this is a direct brain

30:56

chout of me and my partner, and I think, you

30:58

know, with the things I do creatively or

31:00

the things that I'm into creatively, I want

31:02

that extra level of authenticity to it, you

31:05

know, Like I want to see the

31:07

film about Detroit from

31:10

a Detroit director. I want somebody

31:12

who is in there giving

31:14

me that film, right, I want to see

31:17

all those things. And in gaming and in

31:19

sports specifically, that's what we were after.

31:21

This is our life. This is I'm trying to

31:23

explain.

31:24

I remember, like the very first we're pitching it,

31:26

I'm telling people about what it feels like to walk

31:28

out of a tunnel. It's one of the coolest ex

31:30

experiences I've ever had as an athlete is coming

31:33

out to seventy thousand screaming fans, and

31:36

in our game, we have the opportunity to bring

31:38

that to life and show somebody that. And that's just

31:41

the tip of the iceberg. So I think the little things

31:43

like that, that where we're giving you real

31:45

insights from things we've experienced and

31:47

putting them in creatively

31:50

are the things that will make it different our company

31:52

in and of itself. I mean we are I think

31:55

roughly forty five now, and

31:58

of the forty five, I think twenty one

32:00

of them are former athletes, college are

32:02

pro And that's from the systems engineer

32:05

to the creative designer

32:07

on the game, to the marketing to the business

32:09

dev I mean, it's permeated throughout the company. And

32:11

the reason for that is we thought, like

32:13

yo, if we can typically

32:17

athletes don't have a voice in sports anything, especially

32:19

sports gaming anywhere. But imagine

32:22

if we had that insight as well

32:24

as the experts of gamers, as well as

32:26

the engineering expertise, as well as the

32:28

marketing of all these places in

32:30

one room where everyone has a voice, we

32:33

can create something that

32:35

is above the status quo.

32:36

That was the whole impetus around.

32:37

The company, and I think in our experience

32:40

that's what's going to make the difference and what people will

32:42

feel of when they take the headset

32:44

off and say, dang, I do feel

32:46

like I know what it's like to be in an NFL game

32:48

now, right, And I mean that's our ultimate goal.

32:51

Yeah, I'm interested, you know, because

32:53

you've played it at the professional

32:56

level, and how much on field

32:58

tech there is, like we see and

33:00

we've heard, you know, they may mic somebody

33:03

up and so now we get the experience of hearing what it

33:05

sounds like, you know, when you're on the field or on the court,

33:08

but from the stuff that

33:10

the fan will never see

33:12

or may never see, how much like actual

33:15

on your body and on field technology

33:17

is happening to you know, measure

33:20

how fast somebody is running or where they are on

33:22

the field, or like what's happening

33:24

that we don't get the shares to be exposed to.

33:27

Yeah, there's a lot going on. There's a lot of prototyping.

33:30

There's a lot of testing that goes

33:32

on in both a practice and a game environment.

33:36

The NFL is pretty innovative, I mean professional

33:38

sports NBA is, I mean, they're extremely

33:40

innovative as well. So and

33:42

it's funny like that's kind of how I got my first

33:44

foray in the tech. I would consult

33:47

while I was playing for sports analytics companies

33:49

that would create this incredible tech, you

33:52

know, but it was always a gap

33:54

between the tech and the people who were applying

33:56

it, meaning the coaches who are you

33:58

know, it's just a very different world. They use a

34:01

rabbit's foot more than they would use

34:03

analytics in a game like this is my lucky underwear.

34:05

That's what they use in a game environment, right, And

34:08

so I would approach it like, okay, I

34:10

can act as a bridge between understanding

34:12

the technology and the people applying

34:14

it. And I mean there

34:16

is chips that every NFL

34:18

player wears that measures their XI coordinates

34:21

of where they are in the field, how fast they move,

34:23

they're forced from left to right,

34:26

from right to left. I mean in a practice environment,

34:28

we wear the same thing. There

34:30

is cameras that also just

34:33

are taking that footage and

34:35

also gathering all that data. There

34:38

is, you know, obviously the ability

34:40

to do even more from a technology standpoint, but

34:42

you want to make sure that the

34:44

rules are still in place and

34:48

fans are able to experience whatever it

34:50

is they're doing. So all the things that they're testing and

34:53

doing, even though they're not public, they

34:55

will be eventually. It's just a slow rollout

34:58

for which actually possible. And I

35:01

think that's the cool thing about what we're doing is because we do

35:03

call ourselves the future of the field because

35:06

we're combining a lot of those things and again giving

35:09

it to a fan and

35:11

that's a really cool thing.

35:12

So when you say like there's chips on players, I mean,

35:14

are you saying like glorified like apple

35:16

air tags or tiles are on

35:19

players to measure these

35:21

things?

35:21

Yeah, like RFID chips.

35:23

Every player in their shoulder pads

35:26

has a dime sized

35:29

chip that measures where

35:31

they are at all times on the field and

35:33

the speed of it and you could take that data. And

35:36

originally how we start as a company is we had access

35:38

to that data and just from the data alone,

35:41

we were able to create three D simulated plays,

35:43

So we didn't need any video. We didn't need to see what happened

35:45

because we could just get the data from those chips and

35:48

tell you exactly what's happening on the play.

35:51

Wow, that's pretty cool.

35:55

How do you because you're doing

35:58

you know, media now, which I think is

36:00

really interesting. Your great social media

36:03

presence. How are you leveraging

36:05

media for business success? Because I imagine

36:07

that may be a play because when Lebron

36:10

moved to LA, people were talking about, you know,

36:12

this is you know, he's on the down side of his career,

36:15

so LA is a smart move because he wants to be

36:17

a media and TV so it wasn't just an athletic

36:19

decision. So I'm interested

36:21

in the decisions

36:24

you make in being on making TV

36:26

shows or online internet

36:28

web shows. What's the play

36:31

for an athlete like yourself and

36:33

what are you shooting for? If I can just say

36:35

it.

36:37

Yeah, I love that. So I think two

36:39

part number one. What I'm doing now has always been

36:41

my goal since I've been a kid. I wanted to

36:43

do business. I wanted to do business

36:46

in an area that I felt like I was an expert at and

36:48

that I knew more than anybody else, And I feel like sports

36:51

is that thing. So

36:53

when I retired, I actually wasn't going to go

36:55

into media. My older brother went into media. I

36:57

wasn't really into it at the

36:59

time. There was a specific formula you had to follow

37:02

to get an opportunity. You had to speak a certain way,

37:04

look a certain way, do a certain thing, and

37:06

not that I'm not a chameleon and I can't do that. I

37:09

just didn't really have the energy that if I want to be one

37:11

way one day, I wanted the ability to do that, so I

37:13

wasn't going in the media. When

37:15

I retired, I walked White in to start working with Maverick

37:18

Carter after having intern for them

37:20

while I was playing, and

37:22

an opportunity came along, and he was the one that was like, YO,

37:25

you should do it, because as someone

37:27

who knows a lot of former athletes and I've

37:29

gone through this with a lot of people, you might like it, and

37:31

you might be good at it, and ultimately

37:33

it also helps you keep a face card,

37:35

which is important when you're trying to make business move, which I

37:37

know you inevitably want to do. So while I was

37:40

playing in the NFL, I would take

37:42

I would get fifty two, one hundred game

37:44

jerseys every year after the season, and

37:46

I would sign them and I would write handwritten letters

37:49

to people that I wanted to connect with or

37:51

that I was impressed by, and I would send it

37:53

to him in the mail with an email like, YO, if you

37:55

ever want to get coffee, let me know. And that was a networking

37:57

thing for me because I knew people thought it was cool.

38:00

But you know, there's only two

38:02

people that can say that the start receivers for the

38:05

Cleveland Browns. There's thirty thousand

38:07

people that can say they're former players. Right, So I'm like, well,

38:09

let me do this now so that they'll

38:11

remember when I was at my height where

38:14

my mind was that, and so when I need them and

38:16

they're at their height, you know,

38:18

they'll keep that relationship going. So I was

38:20

doing that, and then the media thing for me, it

38:22

was like, well that gave me that same kind of face card. Right,

38:25

it's cool to get an email from someone you've seen on

38:27

television or when we're in a meeting and I might be

38:29

on the background somewhere. That helps me at least get

38:31

an email back. So even if I'm asking for something

38:33

or I'm trying to do a deal, and even if it's

38:35

a no, a fast no is helpful to me,

38:38

you at least give me that courtesy because

38:40

I have a certain face card to it. And so that's my

38:43

original goal around media

38:46

was to use it to benefit

38:48

my business career and what we're doing now it's

38:50

that is pro and

38:52

I still think that's the same thing. And in that

38:54

I just kind of made the decision that I'm just going to

38:57

be me wherever I decide that is. From a media

38:59

standpoint, Eventually, it

39:01

will again just be projects

39:04

that are close to my heart that

39:06

I think there's a need for, that I think there's

39:08

a space for, and that Ultimately,

39:11

I never wanted to get into the media side of things

39:13

to have to hang on it solely

39:15

and completely.

39:16

As a football player.

39:17

You are hired and fired very

39:20

very frequently, and you have no say so when

39:22

your family picks up and moves. And so when

39:24

I got into the media side, I was just very adamant that

39:26

I didn't want that career to be that

39:28

way. I wanted to have the freedom

39:31

to say and do what

39:33

I wanted when I wanted, and

39:35

so I passed up on a lot of great deals media wise,

39:38

because I don't want to get into the rat race of

39:40

Hey, we love you today, tomorrow we don't like you anymore.

39:43

Now you don't have a job, right so.

39:47

I want to dig one level deeper before we get

39:50

out of here. And is absolutely

39:52

you mentioned earlier

39:54

that you know a dollar from a Lebron

39:57

James is not just a dollar because his name

39:59

has value. That thing

40:01

there I want to equate to what you just

40:03

talked about with media and how you're leveraging

40:06

that for a business success. Outside of media,

40:09

there's so many folks who are building businesses

40:12

and it's all really comes down to storytelling. There's so many

40:14

folks who are building businesses that if they could figure

40:16

out how to leverage stories

40:19

and personalities in social

40:23

on stage, in front.

40:24

Of people, etc. That

40:27

could help their business.

40:29

And So if you could leave us with some wisdom

40:31

on how people who might be funny,

40:33

who might be good looking, who might be what

40:36

charismatic.

40:38

How they should see that as.

40:39

A value or find that

40:42

value. To add that to the puzzle

40:44

of building a successful company.

40:47

Absolutely, man, I think you got to

40:49

nailed it right. Like you have to use all those things

40:51

that are at your disposal to

40:54

get to where you are. And a lot of time, especially early

40:57

on your company, is you they are various,

40:59

synonymous, PEP, We're going to follow those things.

41:02

Or it's like an artist when you when you find an

41:04

artist nobody has heard about, and you like their store and you like

41:06

where they come from, you write where they represent.

41:08

You're telling everybody about the artists.

41:10

You gotta check you got to check her out, man, she's amazing,

41:13

right, or whatever that is.

41:14

And eventually they hit mainstream and you.

41:16

Know you you probably now looking

41:18

for the next one.

41:18

Right.

41:19

Businesses are the same way. Right, they want

41:21

to they want to connect with you and your story number

41:23

one. But using

41:25

your talents to hit those

41:27

pillars are super important. And I say for businesses,

41:30

there's three things that you got to hit to

41:33

make yourself a home run. Number one is it do

41:36

you have an incredible product? Is your product

41:39

better than everybody else's?

41:40

Right?

41:40

Do you have something that is just a home run of a product

41:44

that's aggress number one? Number two is

41:46

do you have an ability to get

41:48

the deals done? And we've talked about all these things

41:50

on this podcast so far as do

41:52

you understand the industry that

41:54

you're in, can you make those calls? Do you know

41:56

the right people to talk to to keep continue

41:59

to push that ball down the court because those things are

42:01

important in those deals. And number three is

42:03

your ability to amplify it. Do you have an ability to

42:05

when you say something, get it out in

42:07

front of people, right, Because then those people

42:09

who are gonna follow the check marks of is your

42:11

product great?

42:12

And some people can be successful with two of those things.

42:14

You've seen people with terrible products, but

42:17

they got the right investors and the right amplification

42:19

and they got the right deals. You see people

42:21

with great deals, great

42:24

product and nobody to amplify

42:26

it, but eventually it bubbles up. If

42:28

you have one of three, it's gonna

42:30

be tough. You need at least two or three. If you have three

42:32

of three, you got the home run. And when you use

42:35

your talents for whether you're good looking,

42:37

whether you have other talents, whether you're funny, to

42:39

push through your product, that helps you in

42:41

the amplification side of things. And it's a very

42:44

very important, important pillar, and that

42:46

kind of determines the speed at which you

42:49

scale or becomes ubiquitous.

43:05

Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity

43:07

Afro Tech on the Black Effect podcast.

43:09

Network in iHeartMedia.

43:11

Is produced by Morgan Debonne and me Will

43:14

Lucas, with additional production support

43:16

by Love.

43:16

Beach Him and Rissus Lewis.

43:18

Special thank you to Michael Davis Jermaine Hall.

43:20

If that's a Serrano. Learn more about

43:22

my guests and other tech This repors and innovators at

43:25

afrotech dot com. The video person of

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this episode will drop the Black Tech Green Money

43:29

on YouTube next week, So tap in, join

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rating on iTunes, Go get

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your money, peace and love.

43:44

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