0:01

I'm Will Lucas and this is black Tech, Green Money.

0:04

Randal Yarbro is a multidisciplinary

0:07

designer with professional experience in the fields

0:09

of sporting equipment, apparel, and full weear.

0:12

He was seeing your footwear designer at Easy

0:14

and It's not leading his own label joy Shit,

0:16

where he serves as creative director. Knowing

0:19

what he knows about reaching some of the highest levels

0:22

in creative direction, what would he say

0:24

is the most important non design

0:26

related thing to know about achieving success.

0:29

That's a great question.

0:30

I think one of the things that aren't

0:32

design related is kind of just being

0:35

honest with yourself and with

0:37

others.

0:39

That's probably the biggest thing that.

0:41

I can think of right at the top of my head when

0:43

it comes down to it, Like, you can be a great designer,

0:46

and you can do amazing things, you make

0:48

beautiful pictures, but at the end of the day,

0:51

being very honest and truthful about

0:54

what you're doing makes

0:56

it much easier to do those things right, to

0:58

portray what you're trying to portray or convey

1:00

what you're trying to convey that message

1:03

or that design, because

1:05

at the end of the day, like you know,

1:07

you can't fall back on something

1:09

that you make up. I think you know what I

1:11

mean. So, yeah,

1:14

just being honest and truthful about what you're

1:16

doing at the end of the day will kind of get you

1:18

and guide you into the right place.

1:20

So I was having this conversation with another designer

1:23

a few episodes ago, and we were talking about, you know,

1:25

the need for the

1:28

ability of storytelling and the need

1:31

for designers to be able to tell stories,

1:33

because that could potentially be just as

1:35

important as having the asset.

1:38

Can you talk a little bit about that from your perspective.

1:42

Yeah, just the storytelling part, like being

1:44

able to have the ability to storytell.

1:46

Yeah, communicating your idea, because it's one thing

1:48

to have a dope shoot, I imagine it's

1:51

another thing to be able to translate that dope shoot

1:53

to make people other people know that it's dope.

1:55

Yeah, No, it's true.

1:57

I mean it's kind

1:59

of like, uh, like stand up

2:01

comedy. Right. I'm not saying that trump make

2:03

people left, but just being able

2:05

to kind of like transfer

2:08

everything that you just put into that work,

2:10

whether it's a building, whether it's a chair, whether

2:13

it's a shoot, and kind of being able to share

2:15

that journey. And that's also where that truthfulness.

2:18

That honestness comes

2:20

back where you're like, I worked

2:22

so hard throughout the entire process.

2:25

Once I get to that point where I'm either

2:27

in front of a bunch of people, in front of the CEO,

2:29

in front of the team, sharing the journey

2:32

or sharing what I just created or put in front

2:34

of them, you know, I don't have to fall

2:36

back on made up stories or made

2:38

up things like the entire journey,

2:40

the entire process. You know,

2:42

I was honest, I was truthful, and

2:45

then that story is just so easy to

2:47

tell.

2:47

It's like, you know, not everybody's

2:49

able to talk about themselves.

2:50

But you know, once you do have that little

2:53

rhythm, that cadence, you're able to

2:55

kind of just go back and just grab a few things,

2:57

and that storytelling becomes extremely easy.

3:00

It's not something that you have to like you have

3:02

to make it up, you know what I mean. It

3:05

makes it much easier at the end of the day when

3:07

it comes to storytelling it.

3:10

But it's definitely important though.

3:11

I think lucky thing

3:13

for me is I study architecture in

3:16

undergrad and just being able

3:18

to sit there in front of like fit the other

3:20

classmates in six six

3:24

architects, you know, training trained architects,

3:27

practicing architects and your professor and

3:29

being able to take what you just did for over

3:31

the past you know, a month or so and

3:35

put it in you know, being very like vulnerable

3:37

and sharing that story and that journey

3:40

with people in front of you is

3:42

a it is a hard thing to do,

3:44

but it makes everything

3:47

that you did before it's super exciting.

3:50

It's like it's a feel good moment.

3:52

Yeah, you've said a couple of things that picked

3:54

my interest there. And I'm from the middlest also from

3:56

Toledo, which is like, you know, half an hour

3:58

forty five minutes from where you're from Detroit,

4:02

and I remember, I

4:05

remember growing up and designing

4:07

clothes and you know, tearing apart some genes

4:09

I had with some corduroys that I had also

4:11

and putting them together and making something new

4:13

out of them. And then like the places

4:15

that we grew up, so you know, it's a lot like Detroit

4:19

and like that that isn't necessarily

4:21

something that's you know, amplified,

4:24

Like there's not a lot of people trying to do that type

4:26

of work where we're from. And

4:29

so I'm wondering, like, what was the

4:32

fuel in the tank? Or the encouragement

4:34

you had or the self determination you had to

4:36

fight for those ideas so that

4:39

it was like me. I stopped doing it after I was

4:41

probably like twelve or thirteen because I'm like, Okay, nobody

4:43

around me does this, Like this is not what we do

4:46

right here, right, So I wonder like, what

4:48

was it about your coming

4:50

of age that helped you fight for that idea?

4:54

Yeah, I'm the number one thing. And I

4:56

always said, it's just like Gruffy

4:59

Troit. I was there until I was nine. But that

5:02

entire time I learned so much

5:04

Like I've seen I saw. I

5:08

saw a lot of stuff, so you're just like, you

5:10

know, you grow up faster

5:13

there. But the entire time I was like, man, how

5:15

do I how I get my mom out of this?

5:17

Like you know, typically we think, you know, playing

5:19

basketball, playing football, you might do a

5:21

support activity something to

5:24

get that money because it only makes

5:26

sense, or you can go, you know, a totally different

5:28

route. But the entire time I

5:30

can think if I was like, I want to build

5:32

her a house. If I build our house,

5:34

we can get out of where we're at right now. So in

5:37

my head, that's that's what I had installed,

5:39

like building her house. I didn't know

5:41

what it was or how to do it exactly,

5:45

but I knew I loved the idea of it.

5:47

You know, I love music, I love the buildings

5:49

that are around me. I love shoes and all

5:52

these things that that were Detroit. And

5:55

then when I finally went left

5:57

Detroit and got to South Carolina, that's when

5:59

I I kind of learned

6:01

about architecture and I was like, Oh, that was

6:03

my That's what I want to do.

6:05

That's where I want to be. Become an architect.

6:07

And so that was kind of like the guideline of

6:10

seeing the things around me and then finally

6:13

understanding what that goal was

6:16

or what I was looking to become to then

6:18

achieve the things that I saw

6:21

or the things that I was thinking about. So it

6:23

started off as a kid and just wanted to, you

6:25

know, literally just build my mama house. And

6:27

then the love of like music, architecture,

6:30

footwear, sports somehow

6:32

got me to that point of like, oh, I want

6:34

to do architecture.

6:36

Yeah.

6:37

So what's interesting to me is that you there's

6:40

a lot of us that grow up, you know, I want to build

6:42

my MoMA house or I want to buy, you

6:44

know, my grandma car I want to you

6:47

know, do I want to do something for somebody

6:49

that I love? And part

6:51

of the disconnect we have, like even in tech, it's

6:53

like so many of us are consumers of the applications

6:55

and software that we use, and not enough of us think

6:58

about there's somebody on the other side of building this

7:00

thing, right, and so, because

7:02

you're so passionate about mentorship and

7:04

teaching and you know, leading along the next

7:06

generation of black designers, what's

7:09

important to you or how is it important to you

7:11

to tackling the idea or the concept

7:13

of representation and awareness

7:16

to know that there's us out here doing

7:18

this work so that more people do desire

7:21

to be this. I mean I was I was raised.

7:23

I wanted Jordan's my whole life, you know, but

7:25

I never thought of I could be a Jordan designer,

7:28

you know what I mean?

7:29

Yeah, yeah, no, I

7:31

mean it's definitely true.

7:34

I guess like at a certain point I got

7:37

I got pretty lucky, and you know, just less

7:39

because even living in Detroit, there were CCS,

7:42

you know, ten fifteen minutes from my house, and

7:46

you know at CCS that they study

7:49

you know, architecture design, footwear

7:51

design, they industrial design, they do everything

7:54

there. But I was only fifteen minutes a way

7:56

and I knew I knew nothing about it. You

7:58

would think that I was across the country,

8:01

but I was just down the street. And so I didn't

8:03

have that you know, same as you like, I didn't

8:06

have that representation. I didn't have that understanding

8:08

that I could literally not walk

8:10

down the street, but I could go down the street and

8:12

I could be at a place where, you know, all

8:14

those needs that I was looking for could be like

8:16

fulfilled.

8:17

It was.

8:18

It wasn't until my

8:21

last year, my fourth year of architecture

8:23

school, and I entered into

8:25

full like this T shirt

8:28

competition called Future Soul with

8:30

Nike and Jordan Brand, and I was just doing

8:32

t shirts, just graphics, but it

8:35

was my first time doing graphics, and I was like trialing

8:37

it out. And that's

8:40

where like I kind of got that start in

8:42

that representation. They

8:44

flew us out to Nike, so the contestants

8:46

there was apparel and footwear. They flew us out

8:48

to Nike, got the tour the campus

8:51

and I got to meet a lot of black designers.

8:54

The main person Dwayne Doctor,

8:56

Dwayne.

8:56

Edwards who now runs Lewis

8:58

Pencil College. You

9:01

know, he was the reason why people

9:03

of color were in that space.

9:05

At that time, just

9:08

for the future soul.

9:09

And that's that representation and

9:11

that like, that's that that little drop that I

9:13

needed at the time to.

9:15

Push me and continue like push

9:17

me into the right direction.

9:19

Because with his guidance, you

9:21

know, East got Jason Maiden,

9:24

like those those guys Wilson

9:26

Smith, being able to finally

9:28

see that representation of black people not

9:30

just in fullward design, but just in

9:33

in the corporate setting doing

9:35

creative things was it was just

9:37

like it was eye opening, you know, architecture.

9:40

The entire time there was like maybe three or four of

9:43

us, uh that that were black,

9:45

and then just seeing that there were so

9:47

many more in the professional

9:49

space, it was like, oh, well,

9:51

now I got that drop of guidance.

9:53

And then their words and their you know, their

9:55

feedback was telling me, Hey, you

9:58

get to this point, you got to do same

10:00

thing we did. You know, we built this bridge,

10:02

you got to continue to build it. You got to continue to

10:04

give rides, you got to you know, you got to

10:06

do these things to help pull other

10:08

people up, just like you know, Hope, we were

10:11

pulling you up. And that's where

10:13

that that's the representation

10:15

came from and that's the reason why I

10:17

try to do it as much as possible when

10:19

I can.

10:21

Yeah. So I was talking with a friend

10:23

of mine, Darryl Brown, who you might know was

10:25

me midlest Kids and Darryl Brown Clothing

10:27

company was at one point Kanye's he

10:30

was one of the stylists for Kanye. And

10:33

we were talking about his aesthetic and

10:36

if you know Darryl or even his line,

10:38

it's very work where it's work where

10:40

effectively crossed the board because he used to work on the

10:42

train, you know, the railroad, and

10:45

we're both from Toledo, and we were talking about

10:47

this is because I'm interested in

10:49

your design aesthetic and

10:51

how much of your upbringing in the Midwest

10:54

and Detroit may speak to it. Like some

10:56

other designers might have something in

10:58

their childhood that speaks to how they design.

11:00

So is there anything about your upbringing

11:03

in in the Midwest and Detroit that speaks

11:05

to what you put to pen and paper?

11:09

Yeah, I mean, I definitely think so.

11:10

Again, going back to being a kid, just

11:13

like that, architecture, music,

11:16

the design, like you think about so

11:18

many different things that

11:22

that kind of pop out. Even right now I'm

11:24

wearing like Carhart my T shirt

11:26

and.

11:31

Not even on purpose, it's just a it's

11:34

a good feeling. So

11:38

yeah, I.

11:38

Would definitely say so at least from my

11:40

my visual aesthetics, you know.

11:43

But then when it comes to like from.

11:44

A design perspective, I

11:47

would say, so it might not always

11:49

be in what I physically

11:51

create, so

11:54

you know, consciously, it might be subconsciously,

11:56

but even in the way that I like

11:58

appreciate certain how It's like if you

12:01

if you think about like the tall brick do

12:03

places that that we have in the Midwest. You

12:06

know, the way that we dress is a little bit different,

12:09

the way that we speak is different. So

12:11

there's there's a lot of different things that that pop

12:13

up. And it might not be as I'm

12:15

not I might not be like very cautious of like

12:18

yeah.

12:18

Me doing it. It might just be like you

12:20

know, muscle memory not even noticing it.

12:24

H I

12:30

was reading an interview where you talked about

12:34

before you got too Easy, and you

12:36

said this in the in the interview said when

12:38

I went into the interview, I was talking to them and I

12:40

was like, Hey, I'll do this technical designer

12:42

role for now, but just so you understand, after

12:44

a year, I want to be a footwear designer.

12:47

I already had the tools and the knowledge. So after

12:50

a year being a technical designer, I was a footwear

12:52

designer that easy and so or

12:55

Adidas maybe even before ye say, I'm not sure which

12:57

was it Adidas or Easy.

12:58

Specifically it was easy in Adidas, so it

13:00

was like it was a Dida's easy, gotcha, gotcha?

13:03

And so I wonder what

13:05

gave you the confidence to speak up

13:07

in that way, like so many of us just want

13:09

the opportunity to get into

13:11

something that could be special. But you were

13:14

effectively putting it like yo, I want,

13:16

this is what I want, and that could even put you

13:18

at risk of not getting it, but you were you had

13:21

the confidence. And what I wonder what

13:23

gave you that?

13:25

Uh?

13:26

Man?

13:26

Just I

13:28

just had to do it.

13:31

To be honest, I think it's just

13:33

kind of my personality.

13:34

It's like at the end of the day, like you have nothing

13:36

to lose.

13:37

Grandpa told me the same thing, like, you know,

13:40

you asked for what you want, all they can say is

13:42

no, and it doesn't know it really hurts you, and

13:45

I you know, I didn't. I didn't see anything wrong with what

13:47

I was saying. Also, I just

13:49

came from Skills, which was in Carlsbad,

13:52

and I was a product designer there.

13:53

So for me, I was taking a step

13:55

back.

13:56

I was about to be a senior designer doing

13:59

sports performance training equipment and stuff

14:01

like that, but it was gonna be a step down.

14:04

So I wanted them to understand like where

14:06

my goals were, so then I wouldn't

14:09

I couldn't like say that it was ever lost or

14:11

it wasn't heard. It was like you have to kind

14:13

of you have to speak up for yourself, represent yourself.

14:16

Otherwise you know, they'll just say, oh,

14:18

well, you didn't tell me.

14:19

That you wanted to do that.

14:21

I didn't know, and that's a great response

14:23

for them to, you know, kind of cover up

14:27

your progress pretty much. So it

14:29

was pretty That was probably

14:31

the reason why. And then also

14:33

you know, understanding that I was going to be

14:35

one of the only black people again

14:38

in the space, especially for easy. I

14:41

did the same thing at Skills, like for

14:43

about two years I was the only black person

14:46

at Skills. So for me,

14:48

I was like, you know, I

14:50

was gonna stick out anyway, so I might as

14:52

well, you know, make it understood and know, you

14:55

know.

14:55

Before I even started in the brand.

14:57

Yeah, just so I'm

15:00

clear when we talked about you know, it was Adidas

15:02

slash Yeasy. I'm curious on how

15:04

that relationship between Adidas and Easy was

15:06

because I know, sometimes it's okay

15:08

Easy and the team can go

15:10

do whatever they want and they just showed they show

15:12

up at the end of the day and show Adidas what they did. But

15:15

is it more integrated that relationship

15:17

between that Adidas team and that Easy team.

15:21

Yeah. Yeah, especially footwear. Apparel

15:24

was was separate at the beginning. Apparel

15:26

was like a part of Adidas

15:28

as well Adidas Easy. But

15:31

for footwear it was pretty integrated.

15:33

Like you know, working with people like Steven

15:35

Smith and and the team over

15:38

over at Easy, it was we were all

15:40

one. So it was a it was a group that we were

15:42

working together every single day.

15:45

So yeah, it was It wasn't like I

15:47

was working in the Adida's office. I was working in

15:49

the in the Calabasas Easy office

15:52

with the team.

15:54

So actually it felt like I wasn't even Adidas.

15:57

I would go I would go to Portland to

16:00

visit the campus and stuff like that, and

16:04

you felt like you were still just Easy.

16:06

You didn't really feel like you were a Beata. So it was

16:09

it was interesting. Nobody made it that way.

16:11

It was just kind of how it was set.

16:12

Up, you know.

16:14

And so further on the question

16:16

about your transitioning to a

16:18

role that I'll say

16:20

this was beneath you in in your

16:22

career trajectory, How

16:25

did it make sense for you? What was the

16:27

thesis, what was the thought process you went through

16:29

to say, you know what, taking this step

16:31

back in my career makes sense.

16:35

Yeah. I mean the biggest thing I wanted to get in full

16:38

wear.

16:39

My my friend Sarah, Sarah Sabino,

16:41

she she was a full wed designer on the team,

16:43

and she called me and she just said, hey, you

16:46

still want to get in full wear?

16:47

And I was.

16:48

I was four years into my

16:50

time at Skills, and I was just like it

16:53

was like a decent trajectory. I

16:55

had products out and

16:57

I had patents already already

17:00

out, and on

17:02

paper it looked like a step back, but

17:05

in reality it was like, I want to get into full wear,

17:07

so I'll take this, this chance

17:09

and this opportunity to also kind

17:11

of come in as like a childlike

17:14

mindset where I can just

17:17

learn and learn without trying to sit there and

17:19

be like, oh, already you know, you know,

17:21

big up my chest and be like already know what I'm doing, Like

17:23

I'm good.

17:24

I was about to be a senior blah blah blah.

17:26

I didn't have to do that.

17:27

I could just come in there and be very open

17:29

to accepting knowledge and understanding

17:32

without kind of having the fault of

17:35

being like thrown in as a fullward designer and then

17:37

someone telling me like, hey, this

17:40

guy's not working out. So it was it

17:42

was kind of a blessing. Even

17:44

on paper that it might look step backwards,

17:47

it felt like a major like hop

17:50

leap forward for.

17:52

The people who don't myself included,

17:54

understand the whole difference between

17:56

you know, a technical designer versus a junior

17:59

designer versus as a design director or

18:01

a senior director senior designer. Can you explain

18:03

the differences between those particular

18:06

roles in a in the house.

18:09

Yeah, it all depends on the

18:11

profession and the product that's being

18:13

made. But typically, like you can see

18:15

it, you know, very similar technical

18:18

designer. Like you know, you come in there, you're kind

18:20

of doing blueprints and working

18:23

on certain certain

18:25

things. And when I say blueprints is just you

18:28

know, kind of doing like the very technical

18:30

drawings to then get it communicated with

18:32

the factory in China or with

18:34

the team in general. So whether that's a tooling

18:37

or an upper shell tech pattern, you're

18:40

kind of doing that baseline. So you're doing a little bit

18:42

less of designing conceptual

18:44

you know, conceptualizing, and you're taking

18:47

receiving those concepts and trying to

18:49

make them, you know, turn them into reality.

18:52

When it comes to the junior designer, you're you know, you

18:54

can kind of be doing both. You can be doing the technical

18:56

work and you can also be doing a little you

18:58

know, concepting. They might have you on laces,

19:00

they might be outshold design. Just's

19:03

a few different things like that. And then

19:05

when you jump up to like a

19:08

forward designer, then you

19:10

take on more projects and you should

19:13

be walking in from the content

19:15

phase, so like the sketch phase all

19:17

the way through production.

19:20

So they bounced around a little bit.

19:23

Yeah, oh yeah.

19:25

And so when you think about

19:27

there's so many easy issues

19:29

particularly that have pushed the boundary

19:32

of what we think about. When you're thinking about

19:34

boots or sneakers, they don't look

19:36

like any other sneakers in the market, or they

19:38

didn't before everybody else started to copy the style,

19:41

I should say. When

19:43

you think about that, and you also think about

19:46

driving market demand, how

19:48

do you balance creating something that

19:50

doesn't look like anything else and

19:53

think about, Okay, this thing has to sell also

19:55

to be successful.

19:58

Yes, that's a super importan and

20:00

that's a super important part of the whole journey.

20:04

And you know, honestly, yeay

20:06

is the reason why he's pushed so hard. So you

20:08

know, him being able to take

20:10

that and then turn it into a

20:12

marketable product. You know, product is a little

20:15

bit different than you know, you putting

20:17

it behind someone else. And

20:19

we can kind of see that when it comes to

20:22

you know, other people that are part of like Adidas

20:26

or other like you know, celebrities, how

20:29

different their life trajectory

20:31

were was. You know, ya could

20:33

put on a sock or you could put on a shoe

20:35

with a bunch of layers and people would be like, oh, that's

20:38

that's quality versus you

20:40

know someone else who might not actually have

20:42

that that reach and that convincing

20:46

like manner.

20:48

So it was a little bit easier on

20:50

our behalf.

20:51

But when it came to like pushing the boundaries

20:53

of design, it was very

20:55

like holistic between himself and the

20:57

design team, like him really

21:00

being specific of what he wants in very detailed

21:02

and then us making sure that we could like be

21:05

very like intricate in how we created

21:07

and made something to the liking of

21:10

what he was looking for.

21:11

I want you to speak a little bit more on that because I've

21:14

heard stories about like, you know, he

21:16

actually does draw also, and

21:18

he actually, you know, had comes to the office

21:21

with concepts. And I'm sure you've

21:23

worked with people who just say I want this thing,

21:26

go design it also and then't have a concept.

21:29

So talk to me about the different relationship

21:31

and different working types there is when you

21:33

have somebody who actually has some skill

21:36

and they come to the office with jawings

21:38

versus just being given a task.

21:41

Yeah, at the end of the day, like a

21:44

lot of people do just take

21:47

what's given to them when it comes from a design perspective,

21:50

or they might be a little bit nicer, you

21:53

know. I've heard stories about Pharrell where

21:55

he's a little bit you know, as we can

21:57

all see that he has like a very

21:59

like caring soul.

22:01

So when it comes to sharing you

22:03

know, footwear.

22:04

And designs with him, it can be much

22:06

different than when

22:08

it comes to the a where he's like,

22:10

you know, you come in and you show him something

22:13

and he's liking it, but he has a specific

22:15

eye what he wants, so he might take

22:17

it and sharp, be it updated, or

22:20

you know. I think his mind works

22:22

a lot different than a lot of people's, where he

22:24

has like this rolodex of designs

22:27

and footwear and names in his head and

22:30

he can like kind of call out to a

22:32

specific shoe or a specific

22:34

area of with shoe and just be like, hey, can

22:36

we go get this and then translate

22:39

it into like how we would actually put

22:41

it through our lens. So

22:44

it is much different working with you

22:46

know, certain people like you might

22:48

best why athlete. You might take the shoe

22:51

and hand it directly to him, like I did that at

22:53

Skills where we worked on a product

22:56

and you know, it's it's less

22:58

you know, apparel footwear focused.

23:01

It was more like, you know, something that they were using

23:03

to make themselves play better,

23:05

whether it's football or basketball, and

23:07

so a lot of times they didn't have the

23:10

the burbage to be like giving

23:12

great detailed feedback. They might be like,

23:15

yeah, that's cool and that's it, where they might

23:17

just accept the product as this and have

23:19

no feedback. But I think with Yay, it's

23:21

more so the sense where he's very

23:24

just very detailed, very like that

23:26

detail orient mindset

23:28

that he has is super specific

23:31

and it really does push the

23:33

groundary.

23:33

So you can like put.

23:34

Up one hundred different designs

23:37

and only two might be

23:39

the one that we go forward with, and

23:42

you know, concept out, prototype out, sample

23:44

out, and it's just.

23:46

A different way of working.

23:49

And that that goes through all across

23:51

his products, whether it's footwear, apparel,

23:54

architecture, you.

23:55

Know, you name it.

23:57

So talk to me, so I want to understand

24:00

differences in these working relationships. I

24:02

was interviewing Jeff Staple for this podcast

24:04

also, and he was talking about at his level

24:07

or his the way his business is designed.

24:10

There's a bunch of designers there, obviously,

24:13

but there's designs that he

24:15

had nothing to do with one and

24:18

some he's and some he said he

24:20

probably wouldn't have even put up. He like

24:22

he wouldn't even wear that, but he understands

24:25

where he's at, like this is what you

24:27

know, I guess the market is the many I'm I'm I'm

24:29

pair of phasing that part, But talk to me about

24:31

like the different ways these

24:34

fashion houses work and these labels works

24:36

where you can have somebody like a Jeff

24:38

Staple who's got you know, these

24:41

things out in the marketplace that he has ain't

24:43

nothing to do with and be you know,

24:46

probably wouldn't wear it himself because it doesn't

24:48

sound like easy. Would ever work that way?

24:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

24:53

it's tough. Like outside

24:58

of work with I think

25:00

the only thing that

25:02

that I could think of that would be similar

25:05

to it just goes back to you

25:07

know, I guess what Jeff said, where you

25:10

have this idea of what you want

25:13

and then if he goes into

25:15

you know, Adidas or Nike whatever,

25:18

and he's putting up his idea

25:20

of what he's looking for, just

25:22

meet ten filters. You know, that means ten

25:24

designers creating something for him and

25:27

depending on you know, the brand,

25:30

the business unit, they might the

25:33

marketing people might see a direction

25:36

for the design. The way we worked

25:38

was a little bit different because typically

25:40

the marketing people they give you like

25:43

a brief, like here's the direction of

25:45

what we want.

25:47

For us.

25:48

It was different, like he would give us the brief,

25:50

not not a paper, but just like a

25:53

brief like, hey, I want to waterproof food. That

25:55

could you know that could help me

25:57

fly. So you

25:59

started figuring out, like, this is

26:02

the idea of what he wants. Now let's put it through the

26:04

filter of how are many designers

26:06

we have, and then, you know, make sure we

26:08

have an outcome of what he's looking for. I

26:12

guess for Jeff's you know, the way that Jeff

26:15

was putting it, it is a little bit different. It's just

26:17

a different filter, right, Like that's

26:19

the that's the biggest difference when it comes

26:21

to Easy versus any other business

26:23

unit or brand. You

26:26

just have a different filter or different

26:28

people that are creating the filter and then out

26:30

putting the products.

26:32

I want to talk about Joys Shed a little bit first.

26:35

If you can introduce us to what

26:37

you're working on with Joys, I'm

26:39

gonna give it to you to just introduce it first. Then I have some questions.

26:42

Yeah, So joycech had

26:45

started off with me just wanting to have

26:47

something of my own. I

26:49

think it's important, Like we spend so much time

26:51

giving our life, designed mind and our creations

26:54

to a brand and you know, to different

26:56

people, and we have nothing to

26:58

like have for ourselves, right, we

27:01

have nothing that we built ourselves and can say

27:03

that it's like one hundred percent ours. So

27:06

you know, I was thinking, like what could I create

27:08

that would be you know, ultimately myself,

27:11

what would be me? And so I thought it was like

27:13

basketball shorts. I love basketball. I play

27:15

it as much as possible. I played growing up

27:17

as a kid, and

27:19

you know, growing up, I would just buy if I have money,

27:21

I would just buy every single short. I go

27:24

go in Ebany and get the authentic or the replicas

27:26

of u NC or Detroit Pistons,

27:29

whatever whatever I could find, just something

27:31

to be you know, tangible and just see it.

27:33

And I probably, I mean, I'm not gonna lie.

27:36

I probably have like a or I've had over

27:38

like two hundred pairs of different basketball shorts, different

27:41

brands, and

27:43

so I was like, what can I do that's

27:45

gonna be real to myself? And that's

27:47

where it came with just the idea of having basketball shorts.

27:50

The naming was super hard, right because

27:53

you know, I was born in Detroit and left there when I

27:55

was nine, got to South Carolina.

27:57

You know, it was there for nine years, you know, until

27:59

I grab your high school eighteen and

28:03

you know, going from Detroit to South Carolina,

28:05

everybody'd be like, yo, where are you from?

28:07

And I'd be like, oh, Detroit.

28:08

So every single time for about

28:10

you know, five years, somewhere actually

28:12

where I'm from, and I would say Detroit because I've only

28:14

been in South Carolina for you know, short of my time.

28:17

But then when I.

28:18

Went to college, that's where I started

28:20

seeing people. I started getting confused myself.

28:22

Where am I from? Oh

28:27

I Detroit, but I just came from South

28:29

Carolina.

28:29

I don't know what to really tell you.

28:31

So anytime I would say that, you

28:34

know, the South Carolina people be like, yoh, ain't

28:36

gonna leave us out.

28:38

So I had to try to find a way to put the two

28:41

together.

28:42

And what I did was I

28:44

wanted to just represent both at

28:46

the same time. And so I

28:48

grew up on Joy Jeord Road in Mansfield,

28:51

west side of Detroit, and when

28:54

I got to South Carolina, our first house was on Holly

28:56

Shit Road.

28:58

So I was like, how do I how

29:00

do I make this right? So I took.

29:02

Joy Joy Road to Holly

29:04

Shd to the first part of that joy

29:07

Shed put them.

29:08

Together and it just sounded

29:11

right.

29:11

It clicked for a little bit and I was like, Okay, I

29:13

can make this work. And that's

29:17

how it was born. Just from just from the idea,

29:19

at least the naming part of it.

29:21

It's like, where's my d NA? You

29:24

know, where the two places that influenced me the

29:26

most? And how can I represent that

29:28

through a product or you know, through

29:31

a look? And yeah,

29:34

that's that's where it all came from.

29:36

How do you go about repping

29:39

where you're from in a way that can

29:41

translate successfully to people who have no affinity

29:44

towards you know, joy

29:47

Road and how shed like, how do you how

29:49

do you do that? What

29:51

does it matter that they know what it means?

29:55

I think?

29:56

What what what has worked

29:58

or what I feel that work is people

30:00

being again being honest and truthful, truthful

30:03

with themselves and then that hopefully

30:07

you know, comes across the right way to

30:09

the other people. Right, so

30:12

if you can like show your your honest

30:14

self and be truthful to yourself,

30:16

like you know, the people who Detroy,

30:18

the people from Almo, South Carolina, you know

30:20

obviously right off rip, they'll

30:23

love it just because of the naming, just

30:25

because.

30:26

Of like, you know, who I am.

30:28

But when it comes to other people, that's

30:30

when the design pustion comes in. I think people will

30:32

love the honest truth about you know, why

30:35

you create the brand and what you're trying to

30:37

do with it, and then also the products

30:39

will then speak for yourself, so you

30:42

know, that's why it took so long to get to.

30:44

Where it's at right now.

30:45

And and as simple and simplistic

30:47

and clean as it looks. Again,

30:50

I think that's where that detroited I've comes

30:52

from that that very simplistic look

30:55

and not being like too loud,

30:57

but also being very you

31:01

know, very like you're you

31:03

know yourself that Midwest like you're

31:05

not We're not very I don't feel that

31:07

we're very loud, but we do like

31:09

we do know ourselves, and you

31:12

kind of like, uh, there's like a preparation

31:14

of respect in the way you

31:16

carry yourself as well. So that's

31:19

kind of how I see the brand.

31:21

You're very passionate as we discussed

31:23

about mentoring the next generation of black

31:25

designers. What

31:28

piques your interest in who? In

31:30

selecting who you're going to work with? I mean, I can

31:32

imagine you get a lot of emails,

31:34

a lot of d ms or you know whatever is

31:36

people reach out. You know, I want to be I

31:38

would work for free, I would do whatever just to be around.

31:41

Like, how do you what

31:43

gets you excited about somebody.

31:48

I think the consistency right

31:50

a lot of people, and you're

31:53

right, like definitely get.

31:54

A lot of d ms or a lot of emails

31:56

and I try.

31:57

I try my best to respond

31:59

to them all, and it's not easy, Like and I'm

32:01

not I'm not even I don't think

32:03

I'm a.

32:03

Big time at all. I'm just like a small whatever

32:06

person. I'm just chilling.

32:07

And it's tough still,

32:10

so I can't imagine being you know, even

32:12

more you know, face forward

32:15

to the public. But

32:18

I think the biggest thing is someone being very consistent.

32:21

And one thing I've learned from having mentors

32:23

myself is once I do

32:25

get that person having a conversation,

32:28

whether it's the first or second, once

32:30

that person shows that they can kind

32:32

of like be very like strategic

32:35

and very on top of the

32:37

things that I do share with them, that

32:40

really helps. Like with one of my mentors,

32:42

Jason Maiden, like anytime that

32:45

we have a conversation and anytime that

32:47

he shares his knowledge with me

32:50

and then almost gives me like a task, even

32:52

if he doesn't say as a task, I take

32:54

it as a task, right, just from playing

32:56

sports. I try my best

32:58

to make sure that I come back to them with

33:00

results, just so I can say,

33:03

like, hey, I didn't take what you

33:05

just said and the time you gave me for granted,

33:08

I made sure that I like went through, I built

33:10

what you said and I brought it back to you so I can show

33:12

it to you. So that

33:14

consistency and that person being under

33:17

understanding of like the timing and the

33:19

knowledge share and then appreciating

33:21

it and then you know, finding a way to either share

33:23

it back with me or you know, give

33:26

it to the next person. That's what really

33:29

really shows me that that person cares, and

33:31

it's you know, it feels good

33:33

once you see them doing that too. So

33:36

it's the best part about it.

33:38

When I think about the industries that are

33:40

being democratized in so many ways.

33:42

If I want to drive for a living, I

33:44

don't have to go work for a limo company or a bus

33:47

company. I can legit, just jump on uper

33:49

and do it myself. I want to be a musician,

33:51

I don't have to get on death

33:53

Row or deaf Jam or whatever

33:55

you know, or good music. I can put

33:57

out my music by myself.

34:00

From a fashion perspective, where's

34:02

the opportunity for designers

34:05

to find success without you

34:07

know, getting hired by a house.

34:11

You know, honestly, a lot of people have been doing

34:14

amazing jobs on Instagram

34:17

and social media, which is it's

34:19

a lot different, right, Like they've been able to

34:22

people have been able to have their almost resume

34:24

from creating things online.

34:27

Now that doesn't.

34:27

Always turn into a product

34:30

or it turns into the opportunities, but

34:32

I have seen it work for a lot of people where

34:35

you know, some you might see somebody on Instagram and be

34:37

like, hey, like let's go get them and have a

34:39

conversation. See what else they can do. Then

34:41

see you know how they work and how their

34:43

mind. You know how their mind works.

34:47

So I don't think that they know anyone

34:49

needs to jump, you know to a Nike or

34:52

an Adidas. I think it's a great opportunity

34:54

for people that want to do that, but you

34:57

know, nowadays we haven't and I don't want

34:59

to see easier route, but you know, multiple

35:02

routes. It's not just like you know, Nike

35:04

or Adidas or a rebod. You don't have to

35:06

go down those paths. There's other ways around

35:09

it, like you know, creating your own brand not.

35:12

You know, it's tough, it's

35:14

tough, but it's an opportunity

35:17

that you kind of create for yourself and

35:19

then once you get to that point, people hopefully

35:21

will see it. Uh. And then also

35:24

what's amazing now is people are able

35:26

to do like three D printing. You

35:28

know, I would speak to AI, but I'd rather

35:31

jump to the three three D printing because

35:34

we've seen it become you

35:36

know, something major like Zellerfeld, you

35:39

know, creating three D and giving

35:42

designers the opportunity.

35:43

To put their brand or you know, put

35:45

their.

35:45

Ideas out there into a physical

35:47

form, because it's not always easy

35:50

to create

35:53

a product or.

35:54

Even especially not a shoot.

35:55

A shoe takes mold costs, it takes upper

35:57

costs, you know, and

36:00

doing three D printing it also costs, but

36:03

the upfront it's not as much as like creating

36:05

you know, a person's own shoes.

36:07

So again, I think

36:09

you're right. You don't have to go through like a house or

36:11

through a brand.

36:12

You can always find other ways, and I

36:14

think those ways are definitely being opened up, like

36:17

three D printing, even you know

36:19

AI conceptualizing and sharing

36:21

it on Instagram or TikTok. There's

36:24

just so many new ways of finding finding

36:26

your voice and kind of being able to share with other

36:28

people.

36:30

Two more things I wanted to get to before I let you go. One.

36:33

I just thought this was super interesting. I was thinking about

36:35

this that hip hop has

36:38

had an undeniable impact on fashion. I

36:40

think we would all agree with that. And now

36:43

you have afrobeats, which is,

36:46

you know, top of the charts,

36:48

you know, a lot of music. I was reading this tweet

36:50

by a little duval the other day. You talk about you don't

36:52

have the afrobeats take over because you

36:54

know, you go to the club now all they playing is afrobeats,

36:57

And I wonder what you think

36:59

that impact may have on fashion.

37:03

Just just afrobeats in general, the.

37:04

Culture of African the African culture number

37:07

one, but afrobeats more specifically.

37:10

Yeah, I mean again, we've had

37:12

we've had an impact on America,

37:15

on the world, ourselves, just being black

37:17

people in general. Like you

37:19

know, they put us on marketing

37:21

campaigns. You know, they don't We're

37:24

not always behind the scenes creating the product or

37:26

creating.

37:26

The guidelines of the marketing plan, et

37:28

cetera.

37:29

But you know, we are

37:31

the reason why you know, fashion

37:34

apparel. But where all

37:37

these things are in the space that it's in today,

37:40

now add on afrobeats or

37:43

you know, the kind of

37:45

Africa it's just gonna make the

37:47

takeover is gonna be very interesting just

37:50

because you know a lot of

37:52

us, even you know, being

37:55

African black, you know, black Americans, we

37:57

have the ability to sit you know,

37:59

see our history here

38:02

not always right. We don't see it in our books,

38:04

we don't always get to see it in our

38:05

on TV unless it's

38:08

in a negative light. But

38:11

to be able to kind of have that connection

38:14

back to Africa and just

38:16

being able to open up the doors,

38:20

it's.

38:20

Going to be very exciting.

38:22

And I and I don't and I think that

38:24

it's going to be a lot different

38:27

than people might think. Whether

38:30

it's like us going being able to go back to

38:32

Africa and have an experience in

38:34

that experience really challenging what

38:36

we do and how we see things today and

38:39

also how people see Africa. You

38:42

know, the way that it's displayed in America isn't

38:44

you know, it isn't always in the best light. But you

38:47

know, they can't put us, they can't hold us in the

38:49

dark anymore when it comes to you

38:51

know, how we travel there, how

38:53

we communicate with our with our own people.

38:56

Uh, there.

38:58

So I think that it's going to make a big difference, and

39:01

just in apparel, like not just in a bit

39:03

like a visual sense, Like visually

39:05

we'll be able to see it in the way that people

39:07

wear their clothing or their garments,

39:10

the footwear that might come from it. But

39:12

also I think mentally that's where the big

39:15

change will be, not just for you

39:17

know, Black.

39:18

Americans, but for America, Europe,

39:20

et cetera.

39:21

Like how influential Africa

39:24

is not just in fashion

39:26

but in everything else that you

39:28

know, resources, real resources,

39:31

not like paper that has.

39:33

Been turned into currency.

39:36

So I know that was long winded,

39:38

but just my mind started racing

39:40

when she said that.

39:41

I didn't know how to answer that question.

39:46

It was good, though, it was really good. Lastly,

39:49

I was listening to a previous interview. Were you talking

39:51

about, you know, not effectively

39:53

creating in a vacuum, And

39:56

you talked about you know, design inspiration and where

39:58

you find inspiration and

40:00

you said the best place to find it from your perspective

40:03

was in nature and like

40:05

literally go outside and be inspired

40:07

by what you see, the trees, the air, the

40:10

whatever. And

40:12

I was I immediately thought about Michael

40:14

Jordan because I grew up as a big, humongous

40:16

Michael Jordan fan. I remember almost

40:18

every sneaker in his line was

40:21

designed after some sort of vehicle like

40:23

Corvette. And

40:26

I want you to talk about two things in closing,

40:29

and what elements in

40:32

the shapes of your work. If you

40:34

look at your resume, what elements

40:37

in nature do you most frequently find

40:39

inspiration from? Because if

40:41

I think about it easy, I'm thinking it probably like leaves

40:44

probably if I'm thinking about nature. So

40:46

I'm gonna let you answer that, and then I want I also

40:48

want you to talk about

40:51

the idea or concept

40:53

of both problems being

40:55

all around you therefore opportunities being

40:58

all around you.

40:59

Yeah.

41:02

Yeah, you

41:04

know, so when it comes to the inspiration

41:07

that that I take and try

41:09

to like implement in my.

41:10

Design process or just in design general.

41:13

Uh, you know, I think that the closest thing to

41:16

us as humans are you know, other animals,

41:18

right, So just

41:20

being able to see like how they live

41:22

their lives and how they work. Now, I'm not

41:24

saying I'm going out and like messing

41:26

around with rattlesnakes or anything like that,

41:29

but you know, even watching it on TV

41:31

is very interesting just seeing how

41:34

you know, a panther might run,

41:36

you know, same thing, like you know, how a tinker us

41:39

like a black cat to to represent

41:41

and create some footwear for for my just

41:45

seeing how you know, they live their lives and how

41:47

fascinating they move compared

41:50

to the human body. But how also

41:53

you know, these animals are also more connected

41:57

to the ground. They're more connected to the

41:59

earth versus versus how we

42:01

are where we have now removed

42:03

ourselves from the areas a lot more so

42:06

that you know, just in the design phase

42:08

in general, it's trying to look at like how,

42:10

you know, how do we use bironmenticry? You

42:13

know, typically environmentry can be you

42:15

know, almost anything that has to do with nature. But

42:17

how can we focus on like animals

42:20

and seeing how they live their lives

42:23

and almost either whether it's stripped

42:25

back or in addition to

42:27

create things for ourselves appareil

42:30

foot where you know, prosthetics.

42:33

You know, there's a lot of things like that that come off

42:36

of looking and creating off animals. And

42:38

I think that's that's probably where I gather

42:40

most of my my information. But

42:42

I definitely you know, in nature in general,

42:45

but when it comes to animals that keep it

42:47

on the TV as much as possible. And

42:51

and then for the second question, Uh,

42:55

can you repeat that?

42:56

Yes, the second part was in the idea

42:58

of the both problems

43:01

are all around you and therefore the solution,

43:03

the opportunity is all around you, and just if

43:05

you open your eyes you can see opportunities all around

43:08

you.

43:08

Yeah, okay, So for the second

43:11

question, just like the problems and opportunities,

43:14

I think that's how a.

43:15

Lot of you know, design is created.

43:17

That's you know, you might think.

43:18

That way, but a lot of times it's you know, sometimes

43:21

it's not. But for me personally,

43:25

it's like having an equation, right,

43:27

and it goes back to the idea of process

43:30

and progress through that

43:32

process. So just

43:35

understanding and seeing like

43:38

there are opportunities everywhere, how

43:41

do you really take that internally

43:43

and then filter through your own lens

43:48

because a lot of people are I wouldn't call it

43:51

like an opportunist, but instead

43:53

of really finding a problem,

43:55

more people just kind of like that

43:57

what they're creating is not solution based.

44:00

You know, they didn't they're not solving a problem. They're

44:03

just creating extra two

44:06

what's already out in the world. And I

44:08

can even say that about you know, there's a lot

44:10

of things out there that I like that.

44:11

But again, I think when.

44:14

It comes back to what I said before,

44:16

that honesty portion, even

44:19

if you're not necessarily solving a

44:21

problem, you're

44:23

creating this idea of like, hey, there

44:26

is a market for what I'm

44:28

creating. There are people that I'm looking

44:30

for this specific thing, and

44:33

it might not be a specific problem, but you

44:35

might just be saying like, Okay, here's

44:37

a group of people here, these are the

44:39

things that I want to represent. How do I be

44:41

honest with myself and then tell a true

44:44

story? So then that that opportunity

44:47

then gains you know, real

44:49

life customers or consumers,

44:52

but then also people that feel

44:56

a part of something that wasn't

44:58

there before. So you

45:00

know, not to be like opportunists,

45:03

but you're trying to create like a safe space

45:05

for other people. You're trying to create a product that

45:07

represents a certain group of people that

45:09

might feel not

45:12

represented, if that makes sense.

45:36

Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity

45:38

Afro Tech on the Black Effect podcast

45:40

network and iHeart Media. It's produced

45:42

by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas,

45:45

with the additional production support by Sarah Ergan

45:47

and Rose McLucas. Special

45:50

thank you to Michael Davis, Vanessa Serrano, and Mayamoju.

45:53

Learn more about my guests and other tech thisss and innovators

45:55

at afrotech dot com. Enjoy

45:58

your black tech, green money. Share

46:00

this to somebody, Go

46:02

get your money. He's

46:04

some love.

46:11

M