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0:44

John and Mike Burns, known as the Burns

0:46

Brothers, are serial entrepreneurs with companies

0:48

in a variety of verticals like organizational

0:51

culture and diversity, marketing, PR

0:53

and events, hospitality, and lifestyle.

0:56

You may have heard of their companies like Manchester

0:59

Park Created Agency, HQ

1:01

House, a Social Club, a Koy Collective,

1:04

a DEI Strategy, firm.

1:07

John is an attorney by trade and community

1:09

activists. Mike is a seasoned executive

1:11

coach and former army officer. The

1:15

Burns brothers have found synergy working

1:17

together and their company is growing internationally

1:20

and they set their sites on the African continent,

1:23

working in Kenya, South Africa, Ethiopia

1:25

and more. There's a lot of opportunity

1:28

on the continent that many black entrepreneurs

1:30

from the States had taken advantage of,

1:32

whether it is simply finding opportunities or

1:34

partnering with natives own business moves.

1:37

For the Burns brothers, what about.

1:39

The continent, said to them, this

1:41

is your next move.

1:42

So Mike and I've been doing work in Africa for the last

1:44

five seven years, so we understood

1:48

kind of the opportunity that exists there and the

1:50

need that exists there. But we also wanted to be a bridge

1:52

between African Americans here in

1:54

this country and then Africans on the continent. We recognize

1:56

that Africa is going to be twenty five percent of the world's

1:59

population in the next decade

2:01

and a half, and so how can we be stewards for change?

2:03

How can we really be that connective tissue?

2:05

And we thought just based upon our experience,

2:08

there is tremendous opportunity to have that connection

2:10

point.

2:11

So when you think about going into new

2:13

territory, there's not just

2:16

about having the dollars and resources to go

2:18

open up, but there's also you know, political

2:20

implications and not that And I don't mean like law

2:22

and politics, but I mean but like nuances about

2:24

being in a certain space that you don't necessarily

2:27

know being from the proverbial

2:29

outside.

2:30

So how do you do that.

2:32

When you go into a space like did you have local partners

2:34

How did you consider this new territory

2:36

to find that you know, we want to be successful

2:39

here. This is the guy, the girl, the

2:41

lady, the man that can help us navigate

2:43

that.

2:45

Yeah, well you're exactly right.

2:47

So we specialize in the

2:49

connection and the community, but we will

2:51

readily admit we don't know Africa

2:54

as well as is

2:56

needed to deliver what we're trying to deliver.

2:59

So partnership is essential.

3:00

And so as John said, we've been doing this and

3:03

integrating ourselves into Africa over the past five

3:05

and seven years, primarily in the space

3:07

of like helping to decrease the

3:09

unemployment rates which are crazy across

3:12

the continent. So if you're a

3:14

skilled African Black African,

3:17

about thirty percent of the time you will be unemployed.

3:20

So these are people went to college and did all the right thing,

3:22

they're unemployed, and if you're a black woman, that

3:24

moves to almost seventy percent. So

3:27

over the past couple years, we've been partnering with organizations,

3:30

specifically three organizations.

3:32

One called CCI, which is the biggest

3:34

private employer. They do call center

3:36

services, So when you're thinking about how do you employ

3:38

a lot of people at one time, like

3:40

the call center industry is one of those spaces, and we've

3:42

partnered with CCI. Also,

3:44

another organization called Talent Match, which

3:47

focuses on people who have really high levels

3:49

of skill like developers, digital marketers,

3:51

designers, and how do you place those people get

3:53

them jobs? And then finally the third organization

3:56

that really kind of helped us out as well as this organization

3:59

called Endeavor, and they're actually building

4:01

cities.

4:01

Across the cognitive Africa because.

4:03

They have a proposition that you can't bring

4:05

multicultural or multinational organizations

4:09

into or on the continent because the

4:11

infrastructure is not right, so you need to build from scratch.

4:13

So they actually building these cities and so with those

4:15

three partners, they have feet

4:18

and boots on the ground.

4:19

Plus they've just been great guides to

4:21

ensure that we're.

4:22

Connected with the right people and doing the right things

4:24

to set up for success.

4:26

You know, it's interesting when you said that, I thought about

4:29

a question. I get asked a lot because I have three

4:31

buildings commercial properties and they're in a

4:33

Censius tract that is not great and

4:35

so but the opportunity to build things

4:37

that are great in this this tract is a really

4:39

great opportunity. And so I'm my

4:42

question is directed at like this the spirit

4:44

of entrepreneurship where you're building in Africa.

4:47

You know, so you have two guys you know, from the

4:49

United States going and taking advantage of an opportunity

4:52

building something to help people, to create

4:54

connections for them, create opportunities for them in et cetera.

4:57

How do you recognize the spirit of entrepreneur

5:00

worship as pervasive there and

5:02

the ability to get something started Because when

5:04

you have thirty percent seventy percent unemployment,

5:07

I imagine I got to go start something

5:09

because nobody's trying to hire me.

5:11

Well, it's interesting and I'll turn it over to

5:13

John. But like entrepreneurship

5:17

comes out of problem

5:19

sets oftentimes, and when you don't

5:21

have a lot of opportunity, your whole life

5:24

is a problem set, and so you

5:26

have to create and figure things out. So

5:28

if you think about just the richness of entrepreneurship

5:30

in Africa on the continent,

5:33

it's inherently already there, and

5:35

so finding the talent to partner with,

5:37

finding the talent to actually employ there

5:40

to help drive our mission. Having people

5:42

that have this visionary mindset, it's

5:44

not something you have to teach and just alreadys ingrained

5:46

and who they are just based off of their socio

5:48

economic and personal circumstances.

5:50

So, John, I don't know if you have other pieces to add to that.

5:54

No, I totally agree.

5:54

I couldn't agree more that I think for us, based upon kind of

5:56

the mindset that we kind of moved

5:59

with, it was all aroun driving opportunity. It's

6:01

this this wealth of enthusiasm, this wealth

6:03

of knowledge, this wealth of talent, this wealth

6:05

of expertise, but just the lack of

6:08

opportunity. And I speaking to like the entrepreneurship

6:10

point that Mike mentioned, there's so many

6:12

bright minds and so our mission separate

6:15

apart from HQ is how can we drive opportunity,

6:17

how can we drive by engagement and how can we

6:19

ultimately drive impact?

6:21

I want to ask that same question kind of, you know, like

6:23

about DC. Is you have HQ DC

6:25

House now, which I think is fantastic,

6:28

and.

6:28

I also have a social club.

6:30

I don't know if so, but I'm I'm I'm interested

6:32

in this question of you know, is

6:34

it important to have sort

6:37

of a missing mission oriented

6:39

social club, like dedicated to helping

6:42

a community achieve you know, specific things

6:44

or general things even not even

6:46

specific things, or is it the social aspect

6:49

of having a club to where you

6:51

know, cool people just want to hang out with other cool

6:53

people.

6:54

Is that enough?

6:56

Yeah, that's a great question. I want Mike to kind of jump in

6:58

here too.

6:59

At our club is unique in the sense it's really based

7:01

upon three core principles, right, So

7:03

it's a social aspect which is really important.

7:06

But for us, the almost more important aspect

7:08

is a development both personal and professional.

7:11

We think it's important to as people of

7:13

color that we're being developed personally professionally,

7:15

and so we have cohorts, we have workshops,

7:17

we have classes that really focus on that critical

7:19

piece and we always say why we

7:21

want to create social experience. We want to create a safe

7:23

space. We are really driven

7:26

by, ultimately, how can we mobilize,

7:29

how can we support, and how can we empower people? And

7:31

so to answer your question, we

7:34

kind of convey to our membership the importance

7:36

of how can you collectively or individually

7:39

make an impact, whether it be in your personal life,

7:41

your community, or on a global scale.

7:43

And that's kind of mantra that we move

7:45

with. And so it's bigger than the social

7:48

experiences. It's bigger than the cool vibe,

7:50

it's bigger than the parties.

7:51

It's really this.

7:52

Global community that we're trying to create that

7:55

really kind of convenes black folks around the world,

7:57

and we can kind of speak to that.

7:58

Some more too.

7:59

Yeah, please go in on this.

8:01

Yeah, and it is actually a really

8:04

good question, a little because I don't know if

8:06

it's an either or right. I think

8:08

that at the end of the day, whether it be a social

8:11

club or you're making a widget, right,

8:13

you have to have like passion or drive around

8:15

what you're doing. And so John

8:17

and I just happened to have passion and drive about

8:20

making a change and impact. We come from, you

8:22

know, grandfathers and mothers of

8:24

like the civil rights movement, right, So everything

8:27

we ever saw was people who were put

8:29

in self second and others

8:31

first in order to drive change in the community.

8:34

And so we just happen to create a product

8:36

that is tied to that. Could we have

8:38

done it and just been a social club and

8:41

had parties and drinks. I've seen that model

8:43

work as well, but for us, that

8:45

really wasn't the foundation of.

8:46

Why we were doing it.

8:47

Yeah, So I love your responses

8:50

on this, and I want to go on a level deeper because when I think

8:52

about, like take

8:54

Soho House, you know, like they don't have to have a mission

8:57

to galvanize people.

8:58

They could just open a club.

8:59

But like you and so, it's like when we do things,

9:02

and I don't know if that's you know, just in here because

9:04

of our history, but like when we do things,

9:07

they tend to be more mission oriented

9:09

and mine as a mission, like toe House has a mission.

9:12

Like our job, I believe is

9:14

to organize the community's doers.

9:16

So I have a social club.

9:17

That should probably just tell you a little bit about it, because if you don't

9:19

know, so toe House is a private social club,

9:22

you know it's for the city to well, then creative and entrepreneurial

9:24

class and it's and it's built

9:27

on the waterfront here in my hometown. It's

9:29

twenty five thousand square feet. So we have that social

9:31

parts, five bars, five lounges of coffee

9:34

house, jazz club, et cetera. But what we're doing

9:37

is organizing the people in the community

9:39

who are doing the work to help our community

9:41

be what it could be if we got out of our own way.

9:44

And so when people hear about where I'm

9:46

from, they're like, oh, you know, sorry to hear that,

9:48

or you know, there's all the young people want

9:50

to leave when they graduate from high school

9:52

and all of these things, and I'm like, we have really

9:54

cool stuff here. We just got to get the right people

9:57

in the right place to know each other in create

10:00

that cross pollination and et cetera. But

10:02

then you think about a different type of club. Our counterparts

10:06

they don't have to do that. They could just go put

10:08

a beautiful space and if

10:10

if you want to be in, you in, or maybe

10:12

not in, but you know, because their

10:15

waiting lists are you know, I

10:17

would love to have that sort of waiting list. But they don't

10:19

have to have the mission underpinning

10:21

the community. So I'm interested in your

10:23

thoughts on at what point

10:26

or is it important to even aspire

10:28

to just be able to do something just

10:30

because this will be dope?

10:34

Well damn, that's that's really good

10:37

brother. So this is how I

10:39

interpret it, and I like it just hits me right.

10:42

Could we do it? Absolutely?

10:45

Would it be successful? Absolutely?

10:48

Where we have like a waiting

10:50

list like some of our competitors.

10:53

Could I mean it's a tough, but

10:55

I think why why we tend to go

10:58

towards like the impact and the community. I

11:00

think there's something inherently built

11:03

in us based off our history, that

11:05

our survival is based off community, and

11:09

also our strength comes from community. So I

11:11

think naturally when we

11:14

build, I mean think about we grew up in the

11:16

church, we grew up in like fraternity

11:18

and rorities, like everything, especially

11:20

in the Black experience.

11:21

Is very much tied to community.

11:23

So I think we naturally just migrate

11:25

to it, even when we go into entrepreneurial

11:27

ventures, because that's where we find our collective

11:29

power. So I think we do,

11:32

and we could be just as successful without

11:34

the community our empowerment

11:36

based aspect. But I think based off

11:38

of our customer base, both you and ours,

11:42

our we are our client

11:44

and our customer base need the

11:46

community aspect of it, probably

11:48

more than some of our competitors.

11:51

Yeah you chime in on that, John, No.

11:54

I couldn't agree more.

11:55

I really have nothing to add, And I think I think it's to

11:57

Mike's Moore. I think it's kind of based on

12:00

the foundational fabric of who

12:02

we are as people of color, and.

12:04

I think it's heightened.

12:05

By the continual kind

12:07

of visible political climate

12:09

that we live in in this country. Right we need safe

12:11

spaces to convene and ultimately

12:14

community to help us mobilize. And so I

12:16

think whether it be your membership club which is

12:18

super dope Maa, so congratulations that

12:20

sounds incredible, or it's ours or others,

12:23

I think the foundational framework of

12:25

what we do as people of color is mobilized

12:27

through community. You think about every

12:30

organization from Jack and Jill to the links

12:32

I know Mike mentioned, like the Divine Nine.

12:34

Everything's based upon like how can we

12:36

convene, how can we mobilize to ultimately move

12:39

our culture forward?

12:40

And so it really begs the question to.

12:42

Your point, when can

12:44

we get to that point where it doesn't always

12:46

have to be around how can we change the narrative.

12:48

How can we move our culture forward?

12:51

How can we just get together and have a good time

12:53

right that doesn't have to be built on some other

12:55

framework.

12:56

Yeah.

12:57

Do.

12:58

I didn't plan on going this deep on this because but I love

13:00

your responses to this.

13:04

Do do you think about so I have in.

13:06

The other spaces we have like we're building a market,

13:08

And immediately

13:11

ninety percent of the people I tell that I'm building

13:13

a market, grocery store, etc. They

13:15

assume that I'm going to

13:18

try to.

13:18

Solve the food crisis issue.

13:21

And I would

13:23

imagine when one of our less

13:26

melanated part friends may say that

13:28

they don't get that assumption. But when I say

13:30

I'm going to go build a market, people assume

13:33

I'm going to go try to solve the food crisis,

13:35

food desert issue. And I'm like, I

13:37

want to compete with Whole Foods. I want

13:39

to compete with Trader Joe's.

13:41

And at what point can we think.

13:43

That way versus always.

13:45

Trying to And again, if you want to do that

13:47

food desert thing, that's I applaud that,

13:49

and I think we should do that. But we also

13:52

have to see people like yourselves

13:54

building beautiful spaces

13:56

just because we want to enjoy

13:59

beautiful spaces, and we want to be

14:01

around other people who are like minded

14:03

in that way that they want to enjoy.

14:04

People who enjoy beautiful spaces.

14:09

And know what's so interesting? Right, So when John and

14:11

I, HQ is one of the other, Like,

14:13

we have multiple companies that sent under the Burns Brothers

14:15

organization. HQ's one of them. One of them

14:17

is like a marketing and branding company.

14:19

And I remember when we first started it and we also

14:21

have an event company. I said John, I don't

14:23

want to be like the best black market,

14:26

right. Yeah, I don't want this company to like

14:28

hire us because it's African American

14:31

or Black History Month, and so they're looking

14:33

to run some programs. So then they come to us

14:35

to fill some type of diverse supplier

14:37

quota. I just want them, but they want the best

14:40

production event company.

14:41

In the world.

14:42

You come to Styles right

14:44

by the Verns Brothers, not because it's

14:46

black. And so I completely agree

14:48

with you. I think the issue we face, and

14:51

it goes back to like community

14:53

and all the other stuff, is that we don't

14:55

control the narrative, right, And if

14:57

you don't control the narrative, you're just righting the wave

14:59

of the narrative.

15:00

You kind of just kind of take it takes you where

15:02

if it wants you to go.

15:03

And so community numbers are so

15:05

important, the fact that we will be the numbers if

15:08

we connect and

15:10

we have this point of kind of community,

15:12

then we can have the volume to start

15:14

controlling our own narrative, and not just our

15:17

narrative, but the narrative of the

15:19

whole ecosystem. But right

15:21

now, I think when you go to that food example,

15:24

is that we don't control the narrative, and someone else would created

15:26

the narrative for us. So that's all you could be

15:28

doing if you're trying to open up a marketplace.

15:30

Yeah, as really good.

15:33

So I asked Quintin Harris, Who's

15:36

I believe you guys know Quinton. He's a co founder of

15:38

CEOI Retrospect there in DC.

15:41

And I asked him to send me a couple of questions

15:43

for you guys. I wanted to ask somebody who's

15:45

experienced your spaces and know the you guys's

15:47

work. I'm like, I wonder what he would

15:49

ask if he was given this opportunity.

15:52

So he sent one.

15:53

He sent two, actually, but this first one he

15:55

said, they have very strong views on

15:58

black excellence and how it restricts inclusivity

16:00

and collective progress. How are they

16:02

intentionally redefining the meaning of

16:05

black excellence?

16:07

Mike, you want to take that one. I got to think through it. I

16:09

love that question.

16:09

I love Quentin's a great guy too,

16:12

So when I take it, I can kind

16:14

of follow up.

16:15

So funny enough, we actually own

16:17

the trademark to a phrase called blaxcellents.

16:19

We have like the domain.

16:20

We're not sharing exactly what we're dealing with it yet,

16:23

but we got to figure it out.

16:24

But it's tied directly to this question, right.

16:27

I think that how we look at black

16:29

excellence even as black people is like very

16:31

narrow, right, and we actually

16:33

then reinforce and reaffirm that by

16:35

who we celebrate around excellence.

16:37

It's usually athletes, it's usually entertainers.

16:39

I mean, we're on a podcast with a brother who

16:42

is the chairman of the board of.

16:44

The University of Toledo, Like, that's black excellence.

16:46

Yeah, And so how do.

16:47

We tell stories that are stories

16:49

that are never been told, are people who have

16:52

never been highlighted that actually show

16:54

the whole gambit of.

16:56

What we do as people and

16:58

how we do it better? Than anybody

17:01

else.

17:01

We grew up, like I said, in the Civil rights era

17:03

where grandfather was part of NAACP, who

17:05

took place in this context when were a.

17:07

Little kid called AXO.

17:08

I'm not sure if it was just based out of Texas or if

17:10

it was like a national like kind of quiz competition.

17:13

On black history, right.

17:15

And part of what was so nice about

17:17

AXO is that you had to learn how

17:20

black people kind of dominated

17:22

in all sorts of fields that you would.

17:24

Have never thought about.

17:25

And I thought AXO like define, like this

17:27

is black excellence, right, Like

17:30

what Carver did with the

17:32

peanut is black excellence.

17:34

What what happened with Madam C.

17:36

J. Walker? And here that's black excellence.

17:39

I'm not saying that Lebron and all these old cats

17:42

aren't black excellence as well. They are, but

17:44

it's just so much bigger. And that's

17:47

how I personally see it. And we

17:49

need to tell the stories and highlight the things

17:51

that aren't highlighted around what

17:53

we're capable of and what we have done.

17:55

So John, yeah, yeah, And I think

17:57

Mike kind of mentions the depth of the black experience

18:00

to kind of what that looks like, right, And it's very We're

18:02

not monoliss right, So we're very multi dimensional.

18:05

And I think for us, as we try to build commit

18:07

and especially a global community, it's

18:09

highlighting these stories.

18:10

From around the world what black excellent truly

18:12

looks like.

18:13

And so I think in the US sometimes

18:15

we can get very specific

18:18

around just what that concept looks like to us,

18:20

But we are global black people

18:22

around the world, and so to elevate that whole

18:24

black excellence experience around the world is

18:27

like our mission. And so I love that question

18:30

because I really speaks to the opportunity that exists.

18:32

Like what if we could highlight the young cat and

18:35

a village outside of a crap

18:37

what he's doing right?

18:38

Like?

18:39

Stuff like that is so dope to me because

18:41

I think it not only educates us as black

18:43

people around the multi dimensions

18:45

of the black experience, but also really heightens

18:48

what black excellence truly is.

18:51

So I'm an entrepreneur like yourself,

18:53

with several businesses like yourselves, and

18:56

there's this idea that some people will

18:58

advise me, and I'm sure you've heard before,

19:00

like you know, you should focus like on one like

19:03

you should focus on this one.

19:04

Thing, et cetera.

19:05

And I've heard it say like a fist

19:08

is a lot stronger than five fingers separated.

19:10

Like if you took all.

19:11

Your energy and you balled it up into one fist,

19:14

you could make a bigger impact. And

19:16

so I'm my question is like, how do

19:18

you manage not just

19:20

at a high level, but actually in the

19:23

trenches, in function several

19:25

businesses in such different

19:27

categories and find success?

19:29

Like how do you guys do that?

19:33

The might have been on our team meeting

19:35

this morning, meeting

19:40

this morning, man, we spent three hours.

19:42

Talking about the exact topics.

19:43

Oh wow, yeah, because I think it's interesting,

19:45

right, because the whole fist analogy

19:47

is interesting, right, But at the end of the day, the

19:49

fist is still five separate fingers,

19:51

right, Like, and if you figure

19:54

out how those five fingers, which might be five

19:56

different businesses, how they're still connected

19:58

to a common theme, a common purpose, then

20:01

it works.

20:02

It's actually more impactful. So if you look at all of

20:04

our.

20:04

Businesses, they may be on the

20:06

surface seem very different, Like you got a membership

20:08

house, but you also have a marketing company, and you have a diversity

20:10

company, but you.

20:11

Also have a wellness and performance

20:13

organization.

20:14

That is true, but all of them

20:16

have the strand of delivering understanding

20:20

that ultimately leads to change through

20:22

different mechanisms, and no mechanism

20:25

by itself is effective.

20:27

Of all the mechanisms working together, and

20:29

so.

20:30

The day to day becomes not

20:33

necessarily complicated, but it's manageable

20:35

because everybody understands how they fit into

20:38

the bigger picture, even if they

20:40

operate or tied to a different organization.

20:42

So communication, explanation and really

20:44

helping people understand those points of connectivity

20:47

is really important.

20:48

And then well just team, I mean having an incredible

20:50

team, right, So I think everything foundationally goes

20:52

back to team and the culture of the organization

20:55

that really supports people to obviously be

20:57

critical thinkers, to have grit, have

20:59

integrity, have a selfless work

21:01

ethic, but ultimately being aligned

21:03

with the bigger mission around driving

21:06

impact and mobilizing community, because I think

21:08

everything we do again to Mike's point,

21:10

well it might have a different deliverable from

21:12

like a business offering standpoint, it's really

21:14

aligned with the overall mission of the larger organization.

21:17

And so we talk a lot about

21:20

access to capital, which I'm sure you guys

21:22

talk about also, you know, and then

21:25

having businesses in such diverse categories

21:28

and like to your point, might they do intersect

21:30

maybe not on the surface, but underneath. I imagine

21:33

that might still make it more difficult

21:36

or complex to attract outside the capital.

21:38

And I don't know what your stack is, Like, I don't know if you have

21:40

outside capital, but like, how

21:44

how are you able to tell that story

21:46

to potential investors if they're like, I

21:48

know you guys are doing this. I'm interested in investing

21:50

in this social club, but you also got this DEI thing

21:52

over here, and you also got this brand. You

21:54

know, how do you tell that story?

21:58

Can you tell it?

21:58

You tell it based upon kind of really helping

22:00

them understand the journey of these

22:03

businesses and how they ultimately became to

22:05

form, and they were coming to

22:07

being based upon addressing like a critical

22:09

need and a gap that exists within

22:12

kind of the work and the functions that we were operating

22:14

in. So nothing was willy nilly,

22:16

And once we explain like the level of alignment

22:19

across all of our business functions and kind of

22:21

that red thread, it actually makes us

22:23

more attractive. Right, So, for instance, if

22:26

I'm a private membership club that

22:28

needs to do marketing, I don't want

22:30

to hire X Y and z marketing company.

22:32

If I can hire a familiar entity, right,

22:34

so that makes us more attractive, and by a private

22:37

membership club that does private events. That's

22:39

the bulk of our kind of revenue model in

22:41

addition to obviously the membership model. I don't want

22:43

to hire a event production company or planning

22:45

company. I want to hire an entity

22:47

that actually exists within the ecosystem. If

22:50

I do a lot from like a programmatic standpoint

22:52

for our members around DEE and I, around inclusive

22:54

learning, around bias training, around

22:56

all those things.

22:57

I don't want to hire a random vendor.

22:58

I want to hire So everything makes because

23:00

it's all a shared experience

23:02

and a model that really is a line and synergistic

23:05

across everything.

23:06

So from our ganage point.

23:07

It makes us.

23:08

It gives us a competitive advantage that other

23:11

organizations wouldn't have that are just this,

23:14

are just this because we bring

23:16

all these superpowers together.

23:17

That ultimately supports it helps the whole Well,

23:21

will.

23:21

You get it right?

23:22

It's like a brother that's run like multiple organizations.

23:24

Like it's taking us a while to get that narrative

23:26

type right because it's

23:29

so every like there's so many

23:31

one trick ponies out there like everyone just does

23:33

this and once again that's cool too,

23:35

write like not no shade on anybody,

23:38

right, Like some people just dominate in one

23:40

space and like move forward and that's awesome. But

23:43

because that's a traditional model and

23:45

folks like us think differently, it's

23:48

hard when you go to like a VC or

23:50

an investor and they're like, well, you know, I've

23:53

used to like this like one dimensional track, Like I

23:55

really don't get it. And so we're

23:57

not saying now that everyone has gotten

23:59

it, and we haven't even really we've been

24:01

blessed to take like one business has been successful

24:04

and then we've taken the capital and the revenue that that

24:06

business makes to invest in the other businesses,

24:08

and so we haven't actually had to go and get capital.

24:11

But at the same point in time, there will be a point in

24:13

time, but we really.

24:14

Want to scale this to hit the vision that we're looking

24:17

to hit.

24:19

Bootstrap it is probably not the way

24:21

to continue to grow it to where it needs to grow.

24:24

But now that we have this narrative tot tighter,

24:26

I think it will be easier. But we still recognize

24:29

that not everyone's going to still get it.

24:30

Who we go to, Yeah, we guys,

24:32

we have so much in comment we should really talk

24:35

more after this, but so I've got a couple more.

24:37

For you guys.

24:38

But you know, given the notable

24:41

individuals who you guys have had

24:43

and have as members in HQDC

24:46

house, like, how do you leverage

24:48

these connections to foster, you

24:51

know, collaboration opportunities for other

24:53

black entrepreneurs within you in the

24:55

network.

24:58

I think it's just open lines of communication, right,

25:00

and so we never approach

25:03

members asking them to do as favors.

25:05

It's more of them willing to use and

25:07

leverage their network to ultimately support the

25:10

community. And so it's really just being

25:12

in community with people and ultimately

25:15

understanding where the community is going,

25:18

the community needs and how we can collectively

25:21

grow better, enhance

25:23

the experiences. And I think people and we've been

25:25

so I mean, in our wildest dreams, we never

25:28

would have could perceive

25:30

the impact it's actually making in people's lives.

25:32

People are becoming best friends, people are doing

25:35

business relationships, people are dating. But

25:37

also people are creating an impact and like doing

25:39

things to better themselves and better

25:41

their communities, which I think is the most rewarding

25:43

thing. And so for us, people are

25:45

volunteering of their time and of their

25:47

networks to support the community that we're

25:49

building.

25:50

And so I think for us that's just incredibly special.

25:53

And what we had said when we started the

25:55

house, we're like, okay, like our membership

25:58

base is going to be different than certain of their

26:00

competitors, right, Like people who we want

26:02

to bring in are people are going to be pretty established in their

26:04

career. They're usually like the onlies

26:06

in the room. They have senior

26:09

level of positions. But more importantly, they re walk

26:11

into a traditional

26:14

club or a house or an event, they're

26:16

using the people that people are coming up to and saying,

26:18

Oh, can I get your business card? Or can you introduce

26:20

me to so and so and so when they walk

26:22

into the room, there's no real value they receive,

26:25

right, they give a lot of value, but they

26:27

don't really receive a lot of value. So we say we want

26:29

to create a house to where there's always

26:31

mutual value exchange. That you

26:33

have to be able to give as much value

26:35

as you're asking to receive, and

26:37

we instill that and communicating that at the

26:40

very beginning of the interview process.

26:42

And if you're not able to provide real value,

26:45

then and you're just looking to receive value,

26:47

then you don't even make it past like the screening

26:49

process. And because we set expectations early,

26:52

then when you get into the house, it becomes,

26:54

like John said, are very organic people just supporting

26:56

a matter of their title.

26:58

Role, who they work for, what they do, and

27:00

it works out.

27:01

Add to that too, to Mike's point, and I

27:03

to Mike's point where I think it's so again pretty

27:06

amazing with HQ, the model that

27:08

has kind of been created is, with

27:11

the exception of CBC and DC, I've actually

27:13

never seen anybody hand out a business card in

27:16

HQ. It's really built on like authentic

27:18

relationships. And I don't know well how much Son he's been

27:20

in Washington. DC is the capital

27:22

business.

27:23

Transaction, I imagine, right.

27:25

And so I think especially you know, with our

27:27

in our community, and so I think it was

27:29

such a kind of a treat for us to see that people

27:31

actually forming authentic relationships and

27:34

not just looking for a transactional relationship.

27:37

And so in the several people I've talked

27:39

to recently, even who I have more

27:42

entrepreneurial endeavors that are not like VC back

27:44

door, et cetera. We've talked about staffing and how

27:46

challenging that is specifically in post

27:48

COVID days and

27:52

especially with a marketing company like

27:54

you have. You know, the freelancer movement

27:56

is huge. And then you talk about hospitality

28:00

where COVID change that landscape where you know

28:02

it's hard to put people in kitchens.

28:03

And server staff hosts, et cetera.

28:06

Like how do you navigate those challenges

28:08

such that your business isn't throttled

28:11

for lack of talent personnel.

28:15

We're still figuring it out, brother, like real talk.

28:18

This is like conversations

28:20

every single day because what we've so

28:23

luckily a lot of the businesses you

28:26

have the ability to cross train and

28:28

other people can cover down on people's jobs.

28:31

Membership clubs are

28:33

not that right, like

28:35

like if you get this right, so you got to have someone

28:38

at the concierge desk, and if that furs it isn't

28:40

there. It's not like you can just call up Mike and

28:42

Pennsylvania and be like, yo, can you cover down on

28:44

this? And so we're still working

28:46

through how do you manage like the cost

28:49

of people and so not overstaff, but

28:51

not get yourself in like a position to where all

28:53

you have is like one person filling a role

28:56

because not only does that put you in a point of stress

28:58

around you know, what if they don't show up,

29:01

but it also puts you in a point of stress what if

29:03

they don't perform Right now

29:05

you're like stuck with someone who's outperforming because you

29:07

don't have another like backup, uh

29:10

to replace them with. So there's all sorts

29:12

of conundrums that come with like staffing. But

29:14

like I said, we're still figuring this out.

29:17

We're still uh kind of exploring

29:19

and young here and and any

29:22

of my shot.

29:22

To Oh,

29:25

I love that.

29:25

I mean it's the hardest thing, you know, and I

29:28

recognize and it sounds like.

29:29

You guys did this position.

29:31

Also, you could be doing more business

29:33

if you had more people, And that's the hardest

29:35

part, Like if you could find more good people.

29:39

This this the.

29:40

Hard part is not selling, Like the opportunity

29:42

is there, it's just the people to support the

29:44

opportunity. That's that's when it's

29:46

really hard, hurtful.

29:48

Yeah, bro, well you could.

29:50

I mean, like some positions we've been like interviewing

29:52

for like four months. I mean it's

29:54

like, but you're exactly right, and that's like the

29:56

challenge because the opport

30:00

teams exist. But you can't support the opportunities

30:02

because you just don't have the people to feel the

30:05

jobs. But yeah, it's definitely a daily

30:07

challenge for.

30:08

Us along that thread, I

30:10

imagine, because you know, again I

30:12

feel so much similarity with you guys.

30:14

I imagine some of the ideas and

30:16

companies you started, you know, ultimately

30:18

just don't work out, because this is the nature to be, Like,

30:22

how do you set expectations on

30:25

what success looks like or should

30:28

look like at various stages to ensure

30:30

your efforts are going into something that's worthwhile.

30:34

Yeah, so you know, full transparency,

30:37

I call myself a serial entrepreneur, right,

30:39

I've been like doing this entrepreneurship

30:42

game for like a long time, and

30:45

I have had way more failures than

30:48

success as a matter of fact, Like obviously

30:50

the Burns Brothers just the biggest success,

30:53

and it's because I managed to partner with someone who

30:56

I know has a work ethic as

30:59

high as I do. Right, I think you

31:01

can probably attest will oftentimes in the space

31:03

of entrepreneurship, but like one person who's the horse,

31:05

the other person's the carriage, right, and

31:07

they just feel like you're just pulling one partner that doesn't

31:09

ever work. But the other problem you have in

31:12

entrepreneurship, which we faced before, is

31:14

that there are certain things that.

31:16

Seem sexy, like tech is sexy. Acts

31:18

are tech sexy.

31:19

So people want to jump into things that they don't have the

31:21

subject matter expertise in. Right,

31:24

Like John and I know people we're

31:26

passionate about, you know, change

31:28

and impact for people of color. We're able

31:31

to mobilize community. So what we do

31:33

inside of HQ and the other businesses, it was a natural

31:35

fit.

31:36

So it works.

31:37

Some of the other experiences that I have, Like

31:41

at some point in time, you just know that

31:43

is not working right, whether it be like man,

31:46

I can't continue to take out my savings like type

31:48

of.

31:48

No are are are

31:50

that you know?

31:51

Like just I've had to reposition

31:54

the value proposition twenty times because

31:57

it isn't sticking.

31:58

Like whatever that reason is. It appears differently

32:01

for different organizations.

32:02

But I think that everyone deep down

32:04

inside they have to admit to

32:07

themselves, but they kind of just know that it's time to

32:09

move on and jettison

32:11

what they were doing.

32:14

Yeah, and then well too, even under the Burns brothers,

32:16

I mean we've tried things. I mean, my brother and

32:18

I have been serial

32:21

entrepreneurs in the sense, but also even with on the Burns where

32:23

there's umbrella, we are constant dreamers,

32:26

right, and so sometimes it takes like

32:28

team members like our chief of staff and our CEO

32:30

to be like, hey, fellas, dreaming is

32:32

good, but we also have to make sure we're actually delivering on

32:34

the businesses that we.

32:35

Have, right.

32:36

So it's also ensuring that you have those

32:38

checks and balances internally, because

32:40

I think big dreamers dream big, right,

32:42

but you also have to be practical around what can be actually

32:45

achieved, and so having those folks within

32:47

the organization that can level set things too. And

32:49

then also to not putting too much in your

32:51

play. And I know we talked about the fifth and the five finger

32:53

analogy, but I think there's also a value in really

32:56

drilling down into organizations and not

32:58

spreading yourself too wide. So as

33:01

in totality of our organization,

33:03

we're really focused on kind of drilling down

33:05

into organizations more as opposed

33:07

to spreading ourselves too fit. And so we recognize

33:10

that and we've been very intentional about how we can do that,

33:12

how do we approach that, and how do we be successful with that?

33:15

Yeah, Mike, you mentioned tech, and

33:17

I think about I'm always interested,

33:20

like when I see people's you know, the desktop

33:23

of their phone, like what apps they have on

33:25

I'm just always curious and like what apps people are using.

33:28

And so I'm curious in how

33:30

you guys, what you guys use

33:32

for people out there looking for systems

33:34

and technology to help them be more efficient, Like

33:37

what do you guys use tactically technically

33:40

to be more efficient? Like some of the things that you

33:42

know are invaluable to me are like

33:44

Slack, Like my whole team, well on both

33:46

of my teams are on Slack and so we

33:48

are always having these conversations. Fresh

33:51

Desk is one that we use to you know, so

33:54

if a member has an issue, that can submit it

33:56

and it's not going to get lost because we can all see

33:58

that this person's in the need.

34:00

Nelly, So can you talk.

34:01

About some of the things that you've used

34:04

in your lives to make sure

34:06

technical things that you've used to ensure

34:09

that you're as efficient as possible.

34:12

Yeah, we're definitely were not necessarily

34:14

a Slack org. We use a lot of Microsoft

34:17

teams and we build all sorts of team channels

34:19

that we communicate.

34:20

With each other.

34:21

On we've really

34:23

started to adopt the platform, we're still testing it

34:25

out called Copilot. So when you're looking at like

34:27

outreach and how do you integrate your linked

34:29

in with this kind of AI and kind of technology

34:33

driven kind of outreach platform,

34:35

so from a BD standpoint,

34:37

so leveraging that from

34:40

like a CRM standpoint, because

34:42

we know how important it is to have the processes

34:44

inside of the pipeline. We use

34:46

an organization or a technology

34:48

called pipe Drive to help manage

34:51

all of that and all of our automated communications

34:53

and things like that. And then when we're thinking

34:56

just around like the membership experience

34:59

we currently u it was a platform called

35:01

people Line which we're

35:03

able to build our membership apps through and things like

35:05

that.

35:05

But we're also as we're expanding.

35:07

The community and what we do, we're

35:09

looking at other platforms as well that

35:12

have more like a community engagement

35:14

interaction model, which

35:17

we look to roll out here and leverage

35:19

in the next month or few.

35:21

So those are One.

35:22

Other piece that Mike mentioned too is like our project

35:24

management tool right has been you

35:26

know, an essential and critical piece to

35:28

like obviously from a project management standpoint.

35:30

It's been since us since

35:33

with us since we first launched, you know, a couple

35:35

of years ago.

35:35

Yeah, a great tool.

35:36

Yeah, we use a signa on that side for the project

35:39

management just seeing our stuff, and I've

35:41

tried different ones I tried. I think it

35:43

was base Camp we were using for a long time,

35:45

and base Camp will tell you, like we

35:47

know you guys, ask some more features, We're not

35:49

going to build more features. And so at some point

35:51

we needed more features than

35:53

base Camp even said that they.

35:55

Were going to do. So we had to graduate,

35:58

you know.

35:58

And I'm because I'm sure there's many more out there,

36:00

but those have been in my journey.

36:02

Also.

36:03

Now one more from Quinton. He said

36:06

family is family, and working with family,

36:08

let alone siblings, can be a difficult task.

36:11

What is your dynamic as family entrepreneurs?

36:13

How do you make space for each other's individual

36:16

brilliance?

36:18

Yeah, No, I think Mike and I definitely are stose

36:20

siblings, right, We're only two

36:23

siblings in our family, right, so it's he's

36:25

my big brothers So Mike definitely can big brother me sometimes.

36:27

So I definitely understand that dynamic.

36:29

But I think we also recognize kind of the

36:31

brilliance that we each kind of collectively bring and there's

36:33

a level of respect that

36:36

we have for each other, and there's a level of respect

36:38

that we.

36:39

Kind of convey to the team as well.

36:41

But as you kind of go on

36:43

this journey with your sibling, you ultimately realize

36:46

kind of their talents, right, and you

36:48

want them to really lean into their talents.

36:50

And I think over.

36:51

The last couple of years, we've been

36:53

really great with letting

36:56

the person with that talent be kind

36:58

of leading that level, leading

37:00

that area of expertise, and kind of take the step back

37:03

with respect to other areas that the other person

37:05

might have kind of more expertise in. So

37:07

I think it's just learning someone, just

37:09

like you learn anybody in any relationship, and

37:11

then ultimately kind of navigating through

37:14

those kind of hurdles to ultimately kind

37:16

of get to the finished point that where it's

37:18

more more of a well oiled machine.

37:21

Yeah.

37:21

And I think if you like, use like a sports team

37:23

analogy, right, Like the great teams

37:25

have great players, but what makes them really great

37:28

is they know I'm going to throw the ball and

37:30

I know exactly where

37:32

that receiver is going to be because I've been playing

37:34

with them for so long.

37:35

Yeah, but it just it just happens.

37:37

And so when you have a sibling and there's only two

37:39

of you, right, like we're the only people,

37:42

the only kids of our mother

37:44

and father. Like you spend your whole

37:46

time together. Your whole life is

37:48

together. So I know how John thinks. I know where

37:50

John's going to be on the field, and I know what

37:52

value John brings to the table. And so John

37:55

is a very empathetic human being.

37:57

I'm a very like

38:00

like human right,

38:02

And so you need both of those because you can't

38:04

be always X, Y and Z and

38:07

just give me the bottom line up front. Sometimes

38:09

you got to like feel and be there

38:12

for the people. And so John and I play about those parts.

38:14

John is very much a visionary. He's like

38:16

a creative and he sees

38:19

the ten thousand foot view. I'm

38:21

very much an operator, right, I operatedt

38:23

like five hundred feet, and so us

38:27

being patient with each other and understanding that

38:29

I can't get frustrated when he's at one thousand feet

38:32

and he can't get frustrated with me when

38:34

I'm like, hey, we got to figure out how we're going to execute

38:36

and get this done and understand all the dots.

38:39

And I think that we wouldn't effectively be able to make

38:41

those connections if we didn't have the relationship

38:43

of being brothers and spending our whole life together.

38:47

So, in closing, talk to me about

38:49

twenty twenty four and twenty like.

38:51

What are you excited about.

38:52

Over the next year. We're ended in the first quarter. Now,

38:55

what are you excited about over the next you

38:58

know, a little bit of future?

39:01

Yeah, well, and that's a great question. And we're

39:04

excited about a couple things. And I think the most thing,

39:06

the biggest thing that I could say collectively or

39:08

excited about, we're actually launching what

39:10

we're calling the HQ.

39:11

House Global Network, where our.

39:13

Goal is to convene to

39:16

build community with one million Black

39:18

professionals around the globe by twenty twenty

39:20

six. Right, we want to be this global convenor

39:22

of black people around the globe. And so later

39:25

this year, we're launching this concept

39:27

in ten cities globally and

39:30

more to come around what those cities are and kind of what that

39:32

community looks like. But we really believe

39:35

in going back to Mike's point, to really have

39:37

true influence, that true power, you

39:39

have to be in community with people not just in this country

39:41

but around the globe and that leads

39:43

you to be able to influence policy, influence

39:46

business, influence legislation because

39:49

there's power in numbers. And so how

39:51

can we no longer think just

39:53

domestically because now we know Africa

39:55

is going to have such an influence from like a population

39:57

standpoint in the next decade, How can

39:59

we now I think globally around mobilizing

40:02

people, community convening people, providing

40:04

people with development opportunities, but also providing

40:07

people with social experiences. And so we're

40:09

super excited to launch the HQ House

40:11

Global Network, which will be that convenient platform.

40:14

I love that.

40:15

Yeah, And the only thing I would add to what John

40:17

says that I'm excited about is

40:19

the ability to like help change.

40:22

Mindsets of individuals. Right.

40:25

I'm a big believer that

40:27

the biggest muscle that we have is

40:29

our brain, but also the biggest anchor

40:31

that we.

40:32

Have is our brain.

40:34

Right, and if we can do anything

40:36

over the next year, and we're doing a lot of development

40:38

stuff inside of the HQ ecosystem as well,

40:41

like to help people unlock the

40:44

anchor that's holding them down because they start

40:46

to realize that unconsciously

40:48

they were doing things that they were accepting things

40:51

like if we can start touching those lives

40:53

and shipping away to create that freedom

40:55

because we're opening that mind. To me,

40:58

that becomes a huge opportunity

40:59

into the mention of

41:02

the connectivity to drive change.

41:24

Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity

41:27

Afro Tech on the Black Effect podcast

41:29

network in iHeart Media. It's produced by

41:31

Morgan Devonne and me Well Lucas,

41:33

with additional production support by Sarah Ergan

41:36

and Lovebeach. Special

41:38

thinking to Michael Davison, Ky McDonald. Learn

41:40

more about my guests the other tech disruptors and innovators

41:43

at afrotech dot com. Enjoying

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Black Tech dreen Money, Share this with

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somebody, go get

41:49

your money, some luck. Check

41:58

me out at the annual Black Effect Podcast

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42:02

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I've lived there for two years. Actually, in my worldview,

42:18

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