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From the creators of the hit satire Mega

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comes a new true crime mockumentary about

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the unholiest of scandals It's the

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rise and fall of Twin Hills.

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What I'm about to tell you is so dumb

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Twin Hills Community Church is a 10,000 member

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mega church in Broad Ripple, Indiana Where

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you can find a food court a lazy river

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and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ

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and behind it all it's enigmatic Pastor

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Steve Judson

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watch what you say He is

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a bit of a sex pest I could say that that's not a legal

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is Grant Hayes I'm a food blogger and

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now podcaster who has stumbled upon the

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and listen to our new mini-series the rise and

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You

1:55

Hello and welcome to the blank podcast the

1:57

podcast where we talk to well-known guests

1:59

about their their lives, their careers, and navigating

2:02

those difficult moments on the way. I'm Jars

2:04

Pelle-Phillips, and with me on this

2:06

bank holiday Monday, is when we're recording,

2:09

Jim Daley. We've really set

2:12

ourselves now. We've dated

2:14

the pods within the first 20 seconds. If

2:16

this pod doesn't go out immediately, people feel like,

2:18

what is up with these guys? This

2:21

one might be later in the week. This is an Easter-y,

2:23

Easter-y, relaxed Easter-y episode.

2:25

So just whenever. Yeah. We're

2:27

just cool and breezy. Easter's a bit like, it's

2:30

not quite as extreme as the Christmas time,

2:32

you know, when you don't, literally don't know

2:34

what day of the week it is. Yeah. But

2:37

Easter's a bit like that. Well,

2:39

we've still got a four-day weekend. Yeah. Which

2:41

we're now coming towards the end of. So that basically feels like a week

2:43

off for people. And I know a lot of people,

2:46

a lot of my friends that do full-time work, and obviously I don't,

2:49

are quite

2:51

strategic with their days off. So a lot of people will take

2:54

another day off this week. Or maybe a few, two

2:56

or three days off. Or maybe end

2:58

of last week. And then it feels like you've got a decent old chunk

3:01

off. So people might be in that

3:03

kind of, yeah, that post-Christmas

3:05

new year window where you don't know

3:07

what's going on. So we're just gonna, you know, we're

3:09

just gonna be cool and breezy with this episode and it'll go

3:11

out when it goes out. Yeah, absolutely. Well,

3:15

bank holidays are a bit weird, aren't they? I think anyway.

3:17

They feel like not

3:19

quite as bad as Christmas day, but it's that bit where like

3:22

no one seems to be around and

3:25

shops are kind of... You say that by

3:28

being the dad of a toddler. Bank

3:31

holiday means that this week there's no nursery

3:34

available. So I'm having

3:36

to see who's around. We are booking in Playdates

3:38

galore this week. Last

3:41

week I was in sole custody of

3:44

the youngest. And now we've got

3:46

both kids and we've got to try and find time

3:49

to fill them. So if anyone's out there, fancy the Playdate,

3:51

get in contact. We'll go

3:53

to the park. But I do,

3:56

the thing that always gets me back on holidays and this

3:58

is like pre-wardings.

3:59

This is very stupid. It can maybe sound very stupid.

4:03

But I always have a moment, nearly

4:06

every time, where I think, I've

4:08

got to pop to the bank, or I've got to pop to

4:10

the post office. And then I remember,

4:12

they're all closed, because it's literally

4:14

called bank holiday. But for some reason, it

4:16

always pops around around those times, but I

4:18

think, I don't know, maybe it's being freelancer that you just

4:20

don't know. The concept

4:23

of days off don't exist, but I really need

4:25

to go to the post office literally this weekend and I've

4:28

timed it terribly. That is bad timing. Have you got something

4:30

desperate to go out?

4:32

Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

4:35

Nevermind. That's the sort of little mini-tragedy there.

4:38

It'll go tomorrow. It'll go tomorrow. It'll

4:40

be fine. Again, like this episode,

4:43

it's not life and death. Exactly. It just happens when

4:45

it happens. That person will get this item,

4:48

you know, when they can. When they get it. Yeah. Yeah,

4:51

exactly. And if they start moaning, you just say, what was bank holiday?

4:54

You shouldn't have bought it. Bank holiday. Yeah. It's

4:57

your home for relying on me to

5:00

try and get something posted inside. You bought it knowing

5:02

that it was gonna be delivered over the bank holiday. You

5:05

bought it from me. Yeah. Which of course

5:07

knowing that it's gonna be delayed massively.

5:11

I'm massively assuming this is probably a vintage

5:14

negotiation. No

5:17

comment because other

5:19

selling websites are available and they've not sponsored

5:22

this episode. It does seem to be a big thing at the moment

5:24

though. That one

5:27

more than the other one that people have traditionally

5:30

used. Which is also

5:32

very good. Yeah. Should I say the name? I

5:34

should do it. No, we shouldn't say anything. No. I'm

5:37

actually, while I'm here recording in the cabin, I'm gonna go look through

5:39

my

5:40

boxes,

5:41

multiple boxes of football shirts because I've decided

5:43

to try and sell a few because

5:45

I've grown out of, I put one on the other day and I've like

5:48

two sizes too small for me. So they're

5:50

gonna start going out on. So if people like

5:52

football shirts, follow me on social media

5:54

and I'll start sending links. Yeah. I

5:56

need to make a bit of money as well. So, you know, the old.

5:59

double whammy of being too fat and too poor. I've

6:02

been selling, I had to sell a guitar the other day. Yeah,

6:07

because I needed to replace some equipment.

6:09

So, you know, it's a one in, one out kind of

6:11

negotiation. Yeah, exactly, like a nightclub. Yeah.

6:13

Yeah. I'm going to be like that now with football shirts,

6:16

I think, because I did

6:17

find another really lovely vintage palace

6:19

shirt on one of the websites every day. But

6:22

now my theory is one in, one out. And I'm

6:24

going to try and limit myself to my football shirts to

6:26

a certain number. Oh, OK. You

6:28

can't go over that. Some nightclubs. Yeah. I think

6:31

that would be sensible. I think I'm

6:33

thinking like, I think,

6:35

I'm probably at nearest triple

6:37

figures. I think 50

6:40

would be a sensible amount of football shirts. So

6:42

I'm going to get really quite a few, actually. Bit

6:45

of a spring clear out. So you're over capacity at

6:47

the moment. People are crammed in. Massively like.

6:49

Yeah, it's dangerous isn't it? Yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah. You

6:51

need to start. I've got to think of the safety of my football shirts.

6:54

I've got to let the nice ones breathe. Because

6:56

again, you know, there's some in there that

6:58

are lovely. And there's some in there that

7:01

are a bit rougher. Yeah. You

7:03

know, you don't want you want you want. Sounds

7:06

so elitist through this stupid analogy.

7:09

I want to let the nicer ones breathe.

7:10

Yeah. Where's this going? I

7:12

don't know. Anyway, follow me for football shirts. Yeah,

7:15

if you want to. Yeah, you want some premium football shirts.

7:18

Try and find Jim on on selling

7:20

websites.

7:21

I'll

7:23

put the links on social media and stuff. So follow me on my

7:26

socials. If you happen to be a

7:28

football shirt collector, which

7:30

I've become unintentionally. Anyway, we should

7:32

probably talk about this week's guest. That thing

7:35

is this is a podcast. You

7:37

got to do not sort of sort

7:39

of talking about selling our wares. What

7:42

an amazing guest. Absolutely thrilled

7:44

to have Marine

7:46

Bagan, who is a broadcaster

7:50

and an

7:52

influencer, I guess, to a certain extent. But

7:54

certainly she has

7:56

spent a lot of her time in working in education.

7:59

And we talk a lot about.

7:59

that and her time working in schools and

8:04

yeah the impact it's had on her life and the

8:06

impact she's had on other people's lives. Yeah

8:09

massively absolutely. I've

8:13

perhaps had sort of an education

8:15

icon I don't know if you know if that's a thing but

8:17

it feels like she is. It is now yeah

8:20

we've created it and yeah clearly

8:22

really passionate about that

8:24

that sector and has

8:26

taken that into her broadcasting work

8:29

and done some fantastic programs and

8:32

is now working on her own YouTube series

8:34

which is called glow up your grades which

8:37

as you say is you know is literally helping

8:40

kids with their GCSEs so

8:43

yeah which is absolutely fantastic and

8:45

as you said really really helping people but also just a lovely

8:48

lovely person like really really easy to talk

8:50

to was loads of fun so yeah

8:52

and again with our recent episodes

8:54

we've been we've been sort of focusing

8:56

I think more sort of niche areas and this is

8:58

but I think the pod really benefits

9:00

from that being able to bury down into one area and

9:03

this is definitely one we haven't gone to before so

9:05

yeah marine what a fantastic guest. Yeah

9:07

really fantastic and

9:09

you can tell her passion straight away when she's

9:11

talking about these things you know you you know when

9:13

you we have guests on who kind of light up when they're

9:15

talking about these things and obviously something

9:17

that you know that

9:19

we can talk about the political side of stuff

9:21

but you know the education system is such

9:23

a big part of you know our cultural

9:26

and societal landscape

9:29

and you know whether whatever

9:31

sort of side of the political fence you

9:33

see it we all want the best for our children

9:35

in you know with regards to their education

9:37

and you know we

9:39

they're all there are lots of different ways of doing things

9:41

and perhaps we might all you know you and I

9:43

might agree that the current state of affairs isn't

9:46

maybe the the ideal one at the

9:48

end of the day you know at

9:50

the end days the kids are important and and

9:53

Marines doing amazing work and has

9:56

continued to do amazing work with helping

9:58

and supporting young people.

10:00

Yeah and at one point she says she

10:02

was a bit of a rant and then apologizes, oh I'm

10:04

sorry for going on a rant but we're both like now it's exactly

10:07

what this pod is about. And

10:09

that passion comes through, it really really does

10:11

and that's exactly what we're trying to create with this

10:13

pod is a safe space for people to talk passionately

10:16

about subjects that they care about and see exactly what happens.

10:18

So really really interesting and

10:21

then talks you know a lot about moving into the

10:23

broadcasting space and talking

10:26

about the highs and the lows of that, the frustrations,

10:28

the winds and so that's

10:30

also so yeah two areas covered here really and

10:32

before we've had education come

10:34

up before in passing with people talking

10:36

about their own experiences of school and

10:38

stuff but this is the first time I've had I think a real expert on

10:41

the subject and I think that's why we're able to give it a bit more

10:43

time to sort of bury down into it so

10:46

yeah an interesting and an informative

10:48

episode. Yeah absolutely absolutely I think we should dive

10:50

in.

10:51

Yeah let's do it this is the fantastic

10:54

Megharine Begg on the Blank Podcast.

11:11

Well Megharine thank you so much

11:13

for being on the podcast.

11:15

Did I say it wrong that time? You made us sound

11:18

a little bit French this time actually. I did didn't

11:20

it I'm so sorry. I really

11:23

went for it. But I

11:25

enjoyed it. Thank

11:28

you for being kind. Thank you

11:30

for coming on the podcast. I kind of wanted to start with your

11:33

journey into education really because

11:35

I'm the husband of a teacher who

11:37

works in a secondary school she's a design

11:40

technology teacher and I obviously

11:43

hear a lot about the pros and cons of being

11:45

in the education system in this country.

11:47

Was that something you always saw yourself going

11:50

into?

11:50

No I

11:53

always thought I was going to be a doctor okay

11:55

because I'm Pakistani and it was

11:58

kind of assigned at birth. And

12:02

for my A levels, I did chemistry, biology,

12:04

math, English, literature. But

12:07

I had a bit of a rebel phase when I was in college. So

12:10

I kind of was bunking

12:13

off school a little bit and

12:15

I didn't revise and work as hard as I should have.

12:17

And I ended up missing my offer and missed my medicine

12:20

offer. So I thought, God, what do I do now? All

12:22

my life, I knew I was going to be a doctor. What on

12:24

earth do I do? So I went through clearing. It

12:26

was a particular low point. And

12:31

I thought, well, there's a there's

12:33

a spot to do English and I really love English.

12:36

So I'll go and do English. And then while

12:38

I was at uni, I to make some extra money

12:40

in my second and third year, I started

12:43

working at a tutoring center on Saturdays. My

12:46

sister's a teacher, my brother's a teacher. So

12:49

it was kind of like I would go and help

12:51

out in school plays or do extra little classes

12:54

with the kids there in their schools. And

12:57

it just yeah, at the end of my third year, the penny dropped and

12:59

I thought, I really like this and I'm really good at this

13:02

and I don't know what else I'll do. So

13:04

let me do a PGCE. I'll be a teacher.

13:06

And I ended up doing that throughout

13:08

my 20s. It was the best decision.

13:12

You know, it's weird, isn't it? Like things go wrong,

13:14

like you fail your A levels and

13:17

you think it's like the worst thing in the world

13:20

at the time.

13:21

But I really do believe that all the dots

13:23

eventually add up. And so had

13:25

I not failed my A levels, I wouldn't have become

13:28

a teacher and becoming a teacher was the best

13:30

thing to ever happen to me.

13:31

I completely agree. And

13:33

actually my journey was really similar

13:36

because I failed my A levels as well. So

13:38

I was going to say, what did you both do in

13:40

your A levels? And what were your grades from

13:43

someone who didn't do A levels?

13:45

Chemistry, biology, maths

13:47

and English. Oh, God, they sound all really

13:49

hard. I caught three

13:51

Bs and a C. That's good. So

13:53

what about you, Jim? Oh, my God. I can't miles away

13:56

from that. I

14:00

didn't know that was like a thing. I

14:02

didn't know either. I did ceramics. I did PE. I

14:05

did communication studies. Literally

14:09

is the other end of the spectrum,

14:11

isn't it? I did general studies, which was complete dos, and

14:14

I did French. And I got an A in communication studies. I

14:17

failed ceramics

14:18

in my first year. I

14:24

failed French. I think I

14:27

got an E in French. I got a C

14:29

in general studies.

14:31

And I failed PE. Because

14:34

I thought PE was just playing football. It turns out it's a lot

14:36

of biology. And I did not do well at that at all. And that

14:39

was the only exam in my entire life where I've got

14:41

into the hall, opened up the paper,

14:43

and thought, oh, I can't

14:45

do that one. Oh, I can't do that one. I can't do that

14:47

one. Oh, shit, that's the whole paper. I

14:50

just sat there for two hours and started

14:53

because I couldn't answer any questions. It was horrifying.

14:56

I thought A levels are difficult, though. It's

14:58

like it's such a huge jump

15:01

from GCSEs. And you're suddenly more independent

15:03

and school's not spoon feeding you. And it's

15:06

yeah, I think a lot of people, it

15:08

is a shock. You kind of think with GCSEs,

15:10

you can almost, if you're bright enough, you can sometimes

15:13

just coast through and you'll answer something

15:15

because in the last 15, 16 years of your

15:18

life, you would have learnt some of that information. But

15:20

it just doesn't work like that with A levels.

15:23

No, you're right. The jump up is huge. Because

15:25

I got an A at GCSE French and was

15:27

like, oh, my God, I'm basically French. And then

15:29

did A level. And the jump up

15:31

was insane. I was like in class with

15:34

literally French people. And I just I really

15:36

struggled. And again, going to a college where they're

15:38

like, hey, you can go to class if you want to, if you don't want to. I was

15:40

like, OK, I don't want to. So I just didn't go

15:42

to any classes and then didn't

15:44

had to retake,

15:46

had to basically in my gap year, had to retake French

15:49

second year. I did media studies in a year, basically

15:52

had to like fill in the gaps for university

15:54

and learn in that year that actually

15:58

I did want to go and do. journalism

16:00

at university, having gone into my levels thinking

16:03

I'm really arty, I'm just ceramic, something like that. And

16:05

so again like you like suddenly found through

16:07

the

16:08

failure essentially, this

16:10

other path opened up and it was communication

16:13

studies at Oxford School where

16:15

I did my AS&A 2

16:17

and my teacher, so I've turned this into the Jim Daly show

16:19

haven't I, my teacher Mrs.

16:22

Ruffell,

16:23

I'll never forget her, she was brilliant also because on

16:25

the bottom of her papers

16:28

it must have had her first,

16:30

her initial G, Ruffell

16:32

and then the A at the end for some reason, so always a Graffella

16:34

which always sounds to me like a sort of Julia Donaldson book,

16:36

I always thought was brilliant.

16:39

The Graffella. But

16:41

yeah she,

16:42

there's always someone somewhere that inspires you, just

16:44

sends you on a different path and I'm

16:46

up doing journalism and now obviously not doing that,

16:48

I'm doing madness really but sorry

16:51

to, sorry to hijack that.

16:53

No I really love that. Your story is so familiar

16:55

to me. Yeah no it sounds, I mean it

16:58

sounds very very similar but also

17:00

I think what you said about the fact

17:02

that one teacher can unlock something, like

17:04

I think often we think we like

17:06

a subject but it's

17:08

not that you like a subject, it's the fact that the teacher

17:11

has the ability to

17:13

turn something into your favourite subject or to turn

17:15

something into your least favourite subject and I

17:17

really do feel like

17:19

people kind of underestimate that

17:22

and the fact that you might hate maths

17:24

in primary school and secondary school becomes your favourite

17:26

subject, why is that? It's not because maths change,

17:28

it's because you had a teacher who

17:31

inspired you, you had a teacher who was

17:33

able to make that subject come to life for

17:35

you.

17:36

Oh it's so true, we, my son's,

17:38

he's just about to do his GCSEs so we were at his

17:41

parents' evening last night and he's decided for A

17:43

levels he wants to do computer science,

17:46

B tech IT and

17:48

then like photography on creative subjects

17:51

and when we were with the computer science

17:53

teacher he was like, the

17:56

B tech do you really need to be

17:58

doing that as well as computer science? probably

18:00

a bit of a crossover and then when we went to his biology

18:02

teacher he got a good grade in his marks. She

18:04

was like, you're doing, you are going to be doing

18:07

biology aren't you? At 8.11 he

18:09

was like, no, no, no, no, biology. She said,

18:12

oh that's such a shame and it just planted

18:14

that little seed and it was clear

18:16

that he had a good rapport with this particular teacher

18:18

and then he was thinking, you could just see the cogs turning

18:20

like thinking, oh maybe I should do biology actually,

18:23

I'm quite good at it and and she's really nice

18:26

and and it was that little thing just like actually

18:28

seeing his mind turning to

18:30

doing something different and I thought that's really great

18:33

you know and obviously she'd sewn that seed as well.

18:35

And that is and I think also as teachers

18:38

you have like, I

18:41

don't think people always realize like the power

18:43

you hold the teacher with like the words you say to children

18:45

because and I say this in my book that you

18:48

you can say one thing and it will build

18:50

a student for life like they will

18:52

remember that one thing that you told them that

18:54

they're good at or that one thing that's nice that's

18:57

good about them and they will carry that and

18:59

that will build them but you can equally say

19:01

one thing and it will break them and crush

19:03

them and make them think they're rubbish and sometimes

19:06

you you're human you say things as like a throwaway

19:08

comment you might just say something as a joke which is something

19:11

that is so minor to you and 20

19:13

years later a student gets in touch and it

19:15

happened to my sister, 20 years later a student

19:17

got in touch and

19:18

was like,

19:19

oh you said this to me when I was in year 8

19:21

and it shaped what I like did

19:23

for the rest of my life and that's pretty

19:26

I mean frightening it's terrifying

19:28

but it's also yeah it's it's

19:31

amazing I still remember my year 11

19:33

parents evening

19:35

I remember so clearly I didn't particularly

19:37

I wasn't particularly close with any of my teachers

19:39

my sister taught me everything I know but

19:43

I remember on

19:45

my last parents evening and

19:48

parents evening for us was like a family

19:50

affair it was mum, dad, brother,

19:52

sister because everyone would come it's like

19:54

we Asians take over a hospital when

19:56

they say only one visitor are allowed everyone

19:59

is there

19:59

pulling extra chairs and we all sat down

20:02

and she said,

20:04

I know I'm gonna see

20:06

Marine's name in shining lights one day. And

20:08

I never forgot it. I never, ever

20:11

forgot it. And she probably has like,

20:13

doesn't remember who I am, but I still

20:15

remember that one moment it stuck with me forever.

20:19

That's amazing. Words are so powerful,

20:21

especially to young minds.

20:24

Like they are like sponges and also

20:26

they're vulnerable and they're feeling,

20:28

we don't remember what it is to be 14, 15, 16. You

20:32

feel so weird about yourself all the time. And

20:35

that's why, you know, kids are really into music

20:37

because music talks to them for certain words. And

20:40

it feels like that song is written only for them. And so

20:42

I think

20:43

you're absolutely right. Like I remember

20:45

primary school. I can't

20:47

remember my teacher's name, but I remember writing a poem about my

20:49

hamster, which I thought was

20:51

like, okay. And my teacher was like,

20:53

this is so good. I'm gonna enter this

20:56

into a competition. Didn't

20:58

do well, but like

20:59

that confidence there, you know, 33 years

21:04

later, I'm still writing. Like

21:06

that obviously planted a seed. And I just think it's a

21:09

real, almost

21:11

like a power. But as you say, it has to be dealt

21:14

with carefully. I guess you

21:16

can really toe either side of the line. And

21:18

even now, like, so I still volunteer

21:21

in schools and tuition centers and the GCSE

21:23

cohort, this year's GCSE cohort

21:26

are the ones who spent two of the most important

21:28

years of their education learning

21:30

online.

21:31

So there I think like GCSE

21:33

is always stressful, but it's particularly difficult

21:36

this year. And

21:39

I sometimes mark kids essays

21:42

and I have, you do kind of, you

21:44

don't always mark accurately, particularly like in English,

21:46

you don't have to subject to the right or wrong, right?

21:49

So you can give a slightly higher

21:51

grade and get away with it. And

21:53

I do try sometimes. And if I

21:55

know someone needs a bit of a, just

21:57

a confidence boost, I'll give them like a grade higher. This

21:59

is amazing.

21:59

I can't believe you've done this. Because

22:02

that will give them the boost they need. And sometimes they go

22:04

back to school and they're like, my teacher checked that essay and

22:06

she said it was rubbish. She said it was a five.

22:09

And I'm like, why would you do that? Why

22:11

would you not just let them believe, not

22:14

all the time, but let them believe that that essay was

22:16

incredible. Because that will, a

22:18

small thing like that makes them believe

22:21

that, wow, I did it once. I can probably do it again.

22:23

And they work harder the next time. You

22:26

have got to be quite manipulative as a teacher. Yeah,

22:29

and emotionally intelligent and all those kinds of things.

22:31

You've got to really, yeah,

22:33

every word you do, every action.

22:36

And that can be really tough if

22:38

you're having a tough day yourself, which obviously sometimes

22:40

you go to work and you've had a rubbish morning or

22:43

you're getting divorced or you know,

22:45

you missed your bus

22:48

in the morning. And when you enter that

22:50

classroom, you've got to

22:52

head to toe,

22:55

be watching every single

22:57

move, every single word that comes out your mouth because

23:00

you are conducting, you are conducting

23:02

a

23:03

class with everything that you

23:05

do. Yeah, Charles, I was gonna use a football

23:07

analogy. Shall I do it? Oh, it's quite early,

23:09

yeah, 12 minutes in, first one. Every

23:11

episode. They're like football managers.

23:14

You got to know which kids need an arm around

23:16

their shoulder, which kids may react to a bit more

23:18

sort of

23:19

discipline. But

23:22

actually the point, I was gonna

23:24

say the football thing, and then you were talking and I realised

23:28

there's a really important part, and actually this is really prescient

23:30

with what's going on at the moment with a lot of the unions

23:33

and strikes, that teachers are people.

23:35

And I think sometimes people forget that and think

23:37

that they are almost like robots who are just there

23:40

to sort of

23:41

dash out information. They're

23:43

not, they are people as well. And they have the

23:45

same emotions that the kids have, that the parents have. And

23:48

I think at the moment it feels a little bit

23:51

like, I was gonna say

23:53

people, politicians, that maybe people

23:55

influenced by politicians. I've kind of forgotten

23:57

that in the way they talk about teachers at the moment.

24:00

Yeah, 100%. And I think... I

24:05

feel like what I'm about to say,

24:07

some people might

24:08

not like it, but I'm going to say it because I

24:11

do believe it. And

24:15

I've been a teacher for my entire adult life,

24:18

so I

24:19

know what that job entails. And I feel

24:21

like a lot of the time they are just seen as

24:23

free babysitters. It's because

24:25

they're free in this country, as in you can send

24:27

your child, the majority of us tend to send

24:29

our children to school for free. So it's

24:31

not something that is valued.

24:34

And I

24:35

remember... So my brother, who

24:37

is also a teacher, he's technically

24:40

disabled and he has

24:42

no immune system. And

24:44

I remember during... In the midst of COVID-19,

24:47

in the middle of the pandemic, it

24:49

was during the lockdown and there were all these talks

24:51

where

24:52

people didn't want to look after their children anymore. Because

24:55

they had their child at home and they actually had to

24:57

attempt to teach their child

24:59

even online learning and do their homework

25:02

with them and have them. They hated it

25:04

and they were like, send them back to school, open up

25:06

the schools. And there was all this talk of

25:08

maybe teachers should swab...

25:10

be the ones to swab students'

25:13

throats as they're coming into school in the morning.

25:15

And it's

25:17

like watching Wilfred Owen going back into

25:19

a trenches and you know what's going to happen. In

25:21

my house, it was such a terrifying

25:24

time because it

25:25

was like if my brother has to go back to school

25:28

and be swabbing possibly infected throats and

25:30

be locked in a classroom with 32 children and

25:33

that's

25:34

going to be really, really dangerous. But

25:36

no one cares at that point because it's like just give them to teachers.

25:38

That's their job. They don't do anything anyway. They get holidays.

25:40

So you don't want to look after your one child to

25:43

just chuck 32 of them and give them to a teacher.

25:46

And they are human beings. Teachers are human

25:48

beings. They have their own families. They have their

25:50

own worries and fears and hopes and dreams

25:52

and they have bad days and good days and they're

25:55

also going through the pandemic. But everyone

25:57

forgot that because everyone free-mixed that Christmas

25:59

and then thought...

25:59

oh don't fancy having my child at home anymore,

26:02

send them to school. And the way teachers

26:04

are treated in this country is absolutely

26:06

appalling. It's absolutely appalling.

26:09

In my, in this, I get really emotional, I'm

26:11

so sorry. No you

26:12

don't. I agree

26:14

with everything. When in my

26:16

old school, this sort of pre-pandemic, so imagine

26:18

how much worse it is now. So we used

26:21

to have a sort of almost

26:23

a police station on site, we used to have our own

26:25

two police officers just to make sure that like

26:28

everything was okay with our students.

26:30

And then the budget cuts were happening because my 10 years in

26:33

teaching correlated with a decade of austerity in Britain.

26:35

So then we didn't have our own police officers anymore

26:38

and we had to share them with like three other schools

26:40

so we'd have a police officer twice

26:43

a week. So then it became

26:45

the duty of regular teachers to

26:47

patrol the high road and the bus stops

26:50

after school just

26:52

in case a fight broke out or just in case

26:55

there was any sort of incident. When you become

26:57

a teacher, when I qualified, I thought

26:59

I'm going to be teaching English. I thought

27:01

I'm going to be teaching

27:04

students, helping them pass their exams and make them love

27:06

literature, hopefully a bit of Shakespeare.

27:08

I never signed up to be

27:10

putting my own life at risk and

27:13

be seeing if there's any potential knife crime

27:15

going on on the high road and taking

27:17

that responsibility. Teachers are

27:19

not just, I mean we always

27:21

talk about workload and I can talk about that all

27:24

day long. It's like the most amount of overtime

27:26

you will ever imagine and it's not accounted

27:28

for, it's not paid for.

27:30

But on top of that you hold so many

27:33

different roles and responsibilities

27:35

and people are clueless. Absolutely

27:37

everyone has an opinion on teachers in schools

27:40

and everyone wants to talk about teaching strikes

27:42

and they have no idea the emotional

27:45

toll and the physical and

27:48

it's one of the hardest

27:50

jobs in the world and that's why

27:52

so many of me that's why there's a problem with teacher retention, that's

27:54

why everyone leaves and goes to different countries or leaves a profession

27:56

altogether. But people don't realize that's

27:59

my teacher brand for you.

27:59

No, no, it speaks to

28:02

me. It really speaks to me because obviously my

28:04

wife's a teacher and I know we can

28:06

obviously share notes on lots of things there. I mean, like

28:08

the other day she came home and she goes, I didn't,

28:11

you know, when I became a teacher, I didn't think I was

28:13

going to become a social worker and a security

28:15

guard and all those other things like you say, that

28:18

entails being a modern day teacher

28:20

in this country. Plus, like you say, the

28:22

workload is unbelievable.

28:24

I mean, you know, she works four

28:26

days a week, most

28:29

she's doing 60 plus hours. Where

28:32

did my 20s go? Where did my 20s

28:34

go? Every single, everywhere

28:37

I went, if my friends were getting married, if we

28:39

had family come over, I would carry

28:41

my box of market. I kid you not my

28:44

box of marking with me and it wouldn't always get

28:46

done. But you have this eternal guilt

28:48

because you will never catch up. But you're like, I really

28:50

should be marking. You carry that everywhere. And

28:52

you're always waiting for the next half term. So you can catch up

28:54

waiting for the next half term. And before I knew

28:57

it,

28:57

I turned 30 with no kids of my own. I worked

29:00

in a department of kind of 30 women in

29:02

the in our English faculty. We

29:04

had about 30 women and not

29:07

either none of them were married or they were divorced

29:09

or they didn't have children. Because

29:12

when do you do that? When do you have time to

29:14

take

29:14

some time for your own personal

29:17

life? You don't. I had

29:20

something else I was going to share. Oh, yeah, I was gonna say again. And

29:22

I said I talk about this. I talk about

29:24

both these incidents in

29:27

my book and something very similar happened the other

29:29

day. And I cried and I cried and I cried. And my

29:31

sister was like, you should write another book. And

29:33

when

29:34

I was teaching, and this is imagine

29:36

you're just like

29:38

a young woman in a 20s still trying to kind of find

29:40

your own feet in your own like place

29:42

in the world. And I remember

29:44

this one time, cut a long story

29:46

short, but one of my students, we

29:49

got called for an emergency meeting at

29:51

sort of 1015 in the morning.

29:53

And I

29:54

found out one of my students had been who

29:56

was on reports for his punctuality was

29:59

running for the bus.

29:59

in the morning and he got hit by a bus and he

30:02

died. 15 minutes

30:03

later

30:05

I had to go and stand in front of the class

30:09

and teach like nothing had happened.

30:12

A few years after that one of

30:15

my favourite students

30:17

who I knew the family so deeply and

30:19

I worked with,

30:21

I taught his older brother, I taught

30:23

his younger sister, I knew mum so well,

30:26

he ended up getting excluded and a couple

30:28

of years after that I

30:29

was sent a news article and

30:31

he had been given a life sentence

30:34

for murder and you think what

30:36

on earth happened

30:38

in that time that a child

30:40

gets a top set student gets

30:42

excluded? What happens? What could I

30:44

have done differently?

30:46

Those things you're getting like those punches

30:48

are happening all the time and

30:51

you've still got to go and perform, you've

30:53

still got to go and all those things we were

30:55

talking about earlier about watching every word

30:57

that comes out of your mouth make sure you are on top form because

30:59

you are the escapism that the kids are walking into

31:01

to get away from whatever challenges and issues

31:04

they're facing outside. It's

31:06

a lot,

31:07

it is a lot, it is draining, it is

31:09

exhausting, it is, it's

31:11

a lot. I'm

31:14

so sorry to hear that, that is

31:17

really sad, really really sad both

31:19

those stories and you know

31:23

you're both right about the multiple roles that teachers

31:25

take on that I think I was going

31:27

to use the phrase that people take the piss

31:29

out of a bit I think or certainly I think maybe the government

31:31

do and don't really appreciate the

31:34

multiple, multiple roles that

31:36

that teachers do and

31:38

I was going to ask a question which

31:40

was in fact there's two prongs

31:42

for the question actually because first one was do

31:45

we think that government

31:49

people, parents maybe have this that

31:52

view on teachers because look they're doing something they love

31:55

and when you do something you love you have to end

31:57

up going beyond it's like

31:59

being an actor.

31:59

you have to be badly paid because you're doing

32:02

what you love. And so that's just the way it is. And

32:04

I wonder if people think of that as teachers in

32:07

the same way because their hearts in it.

32:09

So we can push them a bit further. We can get them to do

32:11

more, but also,

32:14

and I'm sure the answer to this is no, but

32:16

is there much mental health support for teachers?

32:19

Could just even just those two stories alone that you've mentioned

32:22

is enough to really, really,

32:25

I mean, tear someone down, but

32:27

there must be multiple stories like that that

32:29

teachers go through in their careers. But I'm imagining,

32:32

I'm gonna say, the mental health support probably isn't that great?

32:34

Mental health support doesn't exist because

32:36

everyone's go-to is that

32:38

you get enough holidays and you

32:41

just read from a textbook anyway. My ex

32:43

used to say to me

32:45

when I was training to be a teacher and I

32:48

felt like I'd been hit by a brick and I was like,

32:50

couldn't keep my eyes open past 7 p.m. And

32:53

he's like, all you do is read from a textbook anyway, why are

32:55

you so tired all the time? So I think

32:59

going actually to your first question of why

33:01

do you think people take the piss out of teachers

33:03

is because it's probably partly because you think,

33:05

oh, but you're doing it for the children, so you should, but I

33:08

think more so is because people just have no

33:10

idea. When you look from the outside and

33:12

also how teaching used to be perhaps back in the

33:14

day when I was at school, maybe there

33:17

was a lot more kind of, I remember like

33:19

in maths, we did do a lot of, here's a textbook

33:22

to enter like this page and just work through

33:24

it answers at the back. Sometimes there was, but

33:28

it doesn't work like that anymore because we've

33:30

got, I mean, we've got obviously bigger class sizes,

33:33

we've got fewer resources, we've got all of that stuff happening,

33:35

but also teaching has changed, I think,

33:37

and developed as a profession and we

33:39

plan lessons differently now. And I mean,

33:42

don't get me started on off-dead inspections, all that kind of

33:44

stuff. I think people just have no idea. You

33:47

can explain it all day long and it just sounds

33:49

like teachers moaning again. And until

33:52

you actually go and try and teach

33:54

yourself, you know, just the idea of standing

33:56

in front of 30 teenagers.

33:59

like just do that, forget

34:02

the workload, forget the emotional stuff,

34:04

forget all of that. Try standing

34:06

in front of 30 teenagers

34:09

a few times in one day and that

34:12

will give you the smallest taster

34:14

that you need to see how difficult this job is. It is

34:16

not an easy task, it is not

34:18

for the weak hearted to be able to stand

34:21

in front of 30 teenagers and let

34:23

alone try and make them learn

34:25

something. I think they can take

34:27

the piss with teachers because they

34:29

actually have no idea what it's like and they

34:32

will never ever know and a lot of the people in power

34:34

have never even stepped foot inside a state school.

34:37

When you haven't stepped foot inside a state school and

34:40

when you have gone yourself to private schools

34:42

where classes were of 10 and below,

34:45

when you yourself were, I'm gonna

34:48

sound, let me stop.

34:50

You have absolutely no

34:53

idea, you cannot even

34:55

fathom, you cannot imagine, you cannot empathise

34:58

what it's like to go to or be teaching

35:01

at

35:01

and for example in a London state

35:04

comprehensive. Yeah. And

35:06

the people who make decisions, the people who make decisions

35:08

about what happens in schools and what happens with teachers

35:11

are people who have never stepped foot into a state school

35:13

themselves.

35:13

It's beyond me why, and this

35:16

is all governments but this particular one, don't

35:19

have people

35:20

who have had experience in those industries

35:23

doing those, why have we not got people

35:26

who are in charge of the NHS, who have had experience

35:28

of working in the NHS? I mean, it's

35:31

potty, it's absolutely potty that that's not

35:33

a thing.

35:34

I just don't, I can't, I

35:37

can't. It makes

35:39

absolutely, it

35:41

makes absolutely no sense but because

35:44

when you are doing a

35:47

job simply to get the money and

35:50

the power and the status that comes with that job

35:52

rather than actually for the people,

35:54

then why would you care? Give

35:57

it to your mate,

35:58

give it to people within that circle. give

36:00

it to them, why would you actually give a job,

36:02

an NHS job to someone who actually knows about

36:04

the NHS, why would you make an education secretary

36:06

someone who actually knows about education's property works

36:08

in that sector, why would you do that? You don't need to. When

36:10

you don't invest in schools and education, which

36:12

is the bare minimum we should be doing as

36:15

such a developed

36:17

advanced country,

36:20

if you don't

36:21

invest in schools and education and young people,

36:24

they are going to grow up in a few years and be adults

36:26

and you've got a whole society filled with adults

36:29

who were not given proper support in any

36:31

sense, not for their mental health, not in their education

36:34

and you have an increase in poverty,

36:36

you have an increase in crime and that eventually filters

36:38

out into the world you're living in. And that's what we're seeing happening

36:40

slowly.

36:41

Completely agree. We've seen the effects

36:43

of 12 years of Tory government

36:45

essentially.

36:48

Should we move on? Yeah. Because I actually feel like I

36:50

feel like we could generally talk about this all day. And

36:53

I'm sure we've got a lot of people listening that would

36:56

echo these views. And, you

36:59

know, if you haven't already gathered from the first 27 minutes of

37:01

this podcast, we support all teachers, especially

37:04

teachers striking. We support them in

37:06

every way.

37:08

How did the presenting come about? Because actually, as

37:10

you were talking, I was wondering if actually being

37:12

a teacher and some of the stories you've been talking

37:14

about there and you are connecting to people, you're dealing

37:16

with people, you're having to deal with

37:19

people from different backgrounds on

37:22

various different levels that actually

37:24

are probably really good skills for going into

37:26

presenting. Yeah, I

37:29

it happened completely by chance. It was never

37:31

part of the plan. I was really happy as a teacher.

37:33

I've been promoted in my first five years. It

37:35

was like

37:36

I was really I loved

37:38

it. I was exhausted. I was unwelled.

37:41

But I loved it. And then one

37:44

morning and I'll tell

37:46

you the longer version of the story, actually. So

37:48

I had

37:49

another teacher in

37:51

the classroom next to me and she was was

37:54

she training at the time? She might have been training at the time.

37:56

But she came in

37:58

and she was another young.

38:00

South Asian woman and she

38:02

was crying her eyes out at seven in the

38:04

morning and I thought what on earth has happened? I thought

38:06

someone had died like the way she was crying and

38:08

I sat with her, sat with her, sat with her for like

38:11

half an hour and I said what's the matter? And

38:13

finally she revealed, she said,

38:15

my cousin's getting married and

38:18

I said, so why are you crying? And she said, because

38:20

I'm not married and I'm crying.

38:22

And I think we must have been about

38:25

yeah, 27 at the time maybe.

38:28

And that morning I don't know what

38:30

possessed me. I don't know what made me do

38:32

it. You don't usually even have time to like go for

38:35

a wee, but I had a free

38:37

period that morning and I went to the English office

38:39

and I wrote, they say I used to be a blogger,

38:41

but I didn't even know what blogging was. I didn't

38:43

have any social media at the time. I just

38:46

wrote something, wrote an article

38:49

called why I'm not married.

38:51

It was nothing profound. It was simply my experience

38:54

of

38:55

my views on marriage as a young British

38:57

Muslim Pakistani woman who

39:00

is like heading towards her thirties. And

39:03

that evening I put it up on the internet for my friends to see

39:05

it. Cause I thought this is God, I haven't written in ages and this is

39:07

a really good piece of writing.

39:09

Went to sleep and the next morning

39:12

people in

39:13

Kazakhstan and Uganda were reading it

39:15

and it was everywhere. And the

39:17

BBC had left a comment on it and said, can

39:19

you please get in touch with me and talk to you about a new show

39:22

that we are that's in development.

39:24

And I got really excited. And

39:27

I called them and they

39:31

pitched the idea of Muslims like us to

39:33

me.

39:34

And it

39:36

sounded like a Muslim big brother. You're going to

39:38

go and live in a house, which is fine if that's

39:40

what people want to do, but it's not what I want to do. So

39:42

I said, I'm sorry. I don't want to do it. I declined. And

39:46

they were really persistent, which I'm really

39:48

grateful for now, but they wouldn't

39:50

let go. Mabinaz, I was, I

39:52

think the exact producer at the time. And he was like, let

39:54

me come to your house. I'm going to speak to your family

39:57

and you about anything that you are actually.

39:59

about and

40:01

I said all right fine so he came

40:03

to my house a few times this went on for about three months

40:06

and on the third visit he really got on with

40:08

my dad and the third visit when he left

40:10

my dad said what are you worried about why do you keep

40:12

saying no to this and I said

40:14

look I know I'm Muslim I know

40:16

how Muslims are presented in the

40:19

media they are going

40:21

to put me in a house with

40:23

people

40:24

who are

40:26

who view Islam in a very different

40:28

way and practice Islam in a very different way to me

40:30

they're all gonna shout at me and tell me you can't be Muslim

40:33

because you got your nails done and

40:35

that's not fun what would I want to do that

40:38

and my dad said I'll never forget he said I didn't

40:40

raise you to be weak I didn't raise you to be

40:42

stupid and he was like you only

40:45

get a lot of opportunities only come around

40:48

once and you need to grab it and I feel like you

40:50

could do something really great if you get yourself

40:52

a platform

40:53

he said if you want to help children and

40:56

young people and make a difference

40:58

do it on a bigger scale this is your chance and that

41:00

day I phoned Mabine and I said I'll do it

41:03

and so I Hannah Montana did

41:05

it for nearly a year I my head

41:08

teacher was incredible and gave

41:10

me some time off to go and film with some psychos

41:13

it won a BAFTA I was doing a BAFTA

41:15

speech one night and staring

41:18

into Benedict Cumberbatch's eyes and the next

41:20

morning the next morning

41:23

I was doing a year 11 GCSE masterclass

41:25

at seven o'clock

41:27

and then it got to a point because you know I wasn't

41:29

born into money so it wasn't like you

41:32

know go and give this a shot and if it doesn't work out it's

41:34

fine I couldn't quit my job until I knew I was on

41:36

to something here but

41:38

post BAFTA speech obviously I was like

41:41

you need to get an agent you do this and people were giving

41:43

me and Muslims were very in fashion in the media

41:46

at that point a Channel 4 was doing a little Muslim

41:48

show everyone wanted to talk about

41:50

being Muslim so it was

41:52

the right time really and that

41:54

September I resigned because I thought I have to

41:57

I

41:57

have to pick one I can't continue doing

42:00

both. And I started presenting

42:02

and I remember when I led my first documentary,

42:04

they were like, are you nervous? Are you scared,

42:06

Marine?

42:07

And I said, I teach teenagers for a

42:09

living. Nothing. Nothing can scare

42:11

me. It's weird. I look back at myself

42:14

then, like four years ago, whatever it was.

42:16

And

42:17

I was so sure

42:19

of myself. I was so

42:22

confident in my ability and who

42:24

I was and what I stood for and what

42:26

I wanted to do. I was, and

42:28

teaching had built me to be, to

42:31

be like that. When you're guiding children,

42:33

like under your wing, there's this super mom

42:35

every day of your life.

42:37

Nothing can scare you. And I remember when

42:39

I started my telly journey, I really was,

42:41

I felt like piece

42:43

of piss. I could do this. Yeah.

42:47

Then it all went downhill. I was going to

42:49

say, that sounds like you're leading up to say, but

42:52

now things are different. Yeah. I think,

42:54

um, I was going to be really dramatic

42:57

and say, I think the industry's broken me a little

42:59

bit. I wouldn't say I'm broken, but I

43:01

definitely think

43:03

it's thoroughly unpleasant. And

43:05

I think

43:06

I am glad that I made the

43:09

move because I think had I turned,

43:11

was I like, if I was 33 and

43:13

I was still teaching every day and still wasn't

43:15

married, didn't have children, was just going

43:18

in every day and teaching, teaching, teaching, exhausted, no

43:20

time to

43:21

brush my hair.

43:23

Maybe I'd feel like, God, I never experienced

43:25

anything else. Maybe I could have done more. Maybe

43:27

I could have done something different. So I'm really glad

43:29

I've, I've made the move. Um,

43:33

and I've had really, really wonderful opportunities

43:35

on the way, which hopefully will carry on happening.

43:37

And I'll keep working hard and trying to make that happen.

43:40

But I think this is an industry

43:42

that's built on

43:45

insecurity and it's built on

43:47

parading people for 10 minutes and

43:49

saying, you're the best thing ever. And then saying,

43:51

times have changed, get to the back of the queue and we'll come

43:53

back to you when we're ready again. Um,

43:55

I don't think

43:58

it's always based on kind of.

43:59

merit and hard work and talent.

44:02

It's

44:03

whoever has the most views on

44:05

YouTube for doing something outrageous or whoever's

44:08

been on Love Island or whoever's, it could be a million

44:10

different things that you're not actually in control

44:12

of. At least in teaching, if I planned a really good lesson,

44:15

obviously depending on the kids move that

44:17

day, but

44:19

if I work really hard, I can get a promotion.

44:22

If I, it's stable and it's secure,

44:26

but TV's not like that. This media industry

44:28

isn't like that. I can work

44:30

day and night, but if the commissioners don't

44:32

fancy me at that particular point in time, I'm

44:35

not gonna have work.

44:37

And I find that quite

44:39

difficult. And

44:41

then, I don't know,

44:43

I was kind of living the high life and then

44:46

COVID happened. So that was the first kind of, oh

44:48

my God, like TV has stopped.

44:51

My four projects that were in development have all

44:53

been indefinitely postponed and canceled. What do I do?

44:56

So that was my first wobble and I was only two

44:58

years in or something. But

45:00

I made it work and I was kind of, I feel like again,

45:02

if that hadn't happened, I

45:05

didn't have that kind of low point in TV, I would have never

45:07

done my radio pull podcast, Secret Life of Teachers,

45:09

which then led onto my book. And writing

45:11

is my life. Like I was reading before

45:13

I could do anything else. So that

45:16

was amazing. But then my father

45:18

got really sick about

45:20

a year ago. He got COVID, I

45:23

don't know if you're aware already, he got COVID

45:25

and essentially

45:27

ended up on a ventilator and the doctor said he's got six

45:29

hours left to live. He was in a Red List country

45:31

at the time.

45:34

And it was 48 hours before my book launch,

45:37

which I thought in my head was like my big

45:39

comeback. And I thought, I'm gonna be back on telly, I'm gonna

45:41

be doing all these promotion things and I'll

45:43

be back in everyone's eye again. And it's gonna,

45:46

off the back of my book, I'll get back onto doing

45:48

my documentaries. And it was all kind of planned

45:50

and done.

45:52

And I had to fly out to Red List Pakistan.

45:54

And I didn't even know if he'd be alive by the time

45:56

I got there.

45:58

And I think that was a really, I don't know.

45:59

know, a really a

46:01

strange time but also a kind of

46:03

groundbreaking time for me because it really made

46:05

me reflect on everything.

46:08

It'd been so fast, you know, like I'm teaching,

46:10

my 20s have flown, but I'm teaching every day, every day, every day

46:13

and then I start presenting while I'm teaching

46:15

and then I leave teaching just as I'm presenting

46:17

full time and it was I'm writing a book

46:19

in 12 weeks and

46:21

suddenly I just I'm there. My dad's

46:24

about to die. No one

46:26

gives a fuck because

46:28

all the friends that you've made in this

46:31

industry are not friends, they are just people

46:33

looking for the next talent really.

46:35

They don't really care and

46:37

I remember

46:40

I thought if

46:43

I come back I'm gonna have to

46:45

do the quarantine hotel which

46:47

is how many thousands of pounds and A I can't

46:49

afford that and B I'd really

46:51

like to get back and promote my book and not spend

46:53

like two weeks or whatever in a quarantine hotel and

46:57

I really think that made me reevaluate

47:00

everything and then meanwhile obviously,

47:02

sorry I'm talking loads, stop me whenever you need

47:05

to, at the same time

47:07

there are no, well

47:09

there are hardly any like

47:12

less than a handful of brown women

47:14

on telly on mainstream TV

47:16

so at

47:18

the same time

47:20

where I knew exactly who I was and what I

47:22

stood for and I was really inspiring as a teacher

47:25

but suddenly I was talking about faith,

47:27

something Muslims like us, Islam, lost

47:29

boys about Asian men and

47:31

I just got like the backlash that

47:34

you get because there are all eyes are on you when

47:36

there aren't many of you doing what you're

47:38

doing then the whole community looks

47:41

at you to see whether you represent them. You

47:43

can't talk about your own story, you've got to represent all

47:45

of them and if you say anything vaguely

47:48

like

47:48

that may come across as criticism or questioning,

47:51

it's like you had an opportunity to show us in a good light

47:53

and you you're a sellout and

47:56

so all of that kind of also

47:59

makes you because the next

47:59

time you do a show, you're like, God, I've got to be even more careful

48:02

of

48:03

every word that's coming out of my mouth. Like

48:05

I really,

48:06

so where my first show, I was just me.

48:08

I was like, actually, me gets

48:10

a lot of hate. Maybe I need to like rephrase

48:12

this. Maybe I need to hold back. I remember

48:15

we were filming the show in, um, out of London

48:17

and these,

48:18

um, five

48:22

young men in a car, um,

48:24

identified me as the girl from the BBC

48:28

and they essentially attacked us in

48:30

the middle of filming and we had to

48:32

get

48:33

in a car and run away. They tried to run us

48:35

over with their car and Snapchat all of it. And

48:38

all of those kinds of things are happening. So it's bad

48:40

enough when you're like on the street as a young woman and you're filming

48:42

and people are shouting out sort of sexual noises

48:45

and stuff at you. But then top that

48:47

up with like,

48:49

every time a show comes out, you're either being told

48:51

to go back to where you come from. I was

48:53

born and brought up here. Where are you telling me to go back

48:55

to?

48:57

Or you've got the other half of the people saying you're a sellout

48:59

and why do you work for the BBC? And you're doing

49:01

like, it's impossible. And

49:04

that bit got easier because you end up

49:06

not giving a shit anymore. And you're like, actually,

49:08

I'm going to revert back to just being me. And that's

49:11

got to be enough. But all

49:13

of those things, if you

49:15

put them on top of each other, it's

49:18

tough. Yeah. And especially if you're

49:20

in an industry, then when you do reach out for

49:22

help, no one's answering that call.

49:25

And you're totally right

49:28

about that industry. And I wonder if actually

49:32

nothing's forever. No career

49:35

of anything is forever you. And

49:38

the fact that you came to it later, I think maybe, does

49:40

it give you more perspective? I often

49:42

wonder, I often think, thank

49:45

goodness, I

49:47

had

49:48

a proper career and I was a

49:50

big grown woman before I joined this industry

49:52

because it gives me it means

49:54

I'm that little bit wiser, stronger, able

49:56

to reflect and able to move on from things

49:59

when I know they aren't serving. me in a positive way and all

50:01

that kind of stuff which comes from a

50:03

being older, b having a really strong support

50:05

network of like family and close friends and things

50:07

like that but not everyone has that. I think

50:09

about people who go into this industry when they are so

50:12

that they're young and they are naive and they are

50:14

impressionable and they are not as yeah

50:17

just not as built and they may not have

50:19

that support system and I just yeah

50:21

it must be absolutely awful. I've

50:24

ruined the whole mood of the podcast haven't I? Not

50:26

at all no no no this is really important

50:29

to hear because a lot of people

50:31

won't be aware yeah yeah

50:34

of what this you know because it looks all sparkly and lovely

50:36

from the outside. Yeah no it's definitely not

50:38

sparkly and like I say I don't

50:40

there are I don't want to seem ungrateful for the opportunity

50:43

I did have because I've done really like

50:45

I was able to take my parents to hudged a

50:47

pilgrimage with the money that I made in my

50:49

first year

50:50

that was amazing

50:52

and I wouldn't have been

50:54

able to do that had I not

50:56

changed from teaching because with teaching you can't even

50:59

pay your rent. I

51:01

was you know kayaking with Adrian

51:03

trials and I flew a little helicopter

51:05

by myself and I like things

51:07

like that you just think wow I feel

51:10

like I've experienced so much more of life

51:12

than I would have and but

51:14

you know life happens life happens and

51:16

it inevitably changes you and it's just weird when I

51:18

look back at that first show I watch Muslims like

51:20

us and I'm like I'm so not that girl anymore

51:23

like

51:24

life has happened it's not just it's not

51:26

just TV it's also my father's illness

51:28

is also just life has happened um

51:31

but being in TV has not made it any easier.

51:34

I

51:34

think to be honest talking honestly I think is isn't

51:37

is always the way to go anyway to be honest um

51:40

but

51:40

I'm a bit sick of just not being able to say anything

51:43

you know yeah yeah you can't say anything

51:45

because you're gonna end up getting yourself blacklisted you're

51:47

gonna offend people you're gonna it's

51:49

a bit it's the truth why do we talk about the

51:51

truth it's you know I'm not saying

51:54

everyone's evil and I'm not saying anyone owes

51:56

me work and I'm not saying

51:57

I'm just talking about my experience and that

51:59

is

51:59

the truth of like

52:01

how it has been for me and probably for countless

52:03

others why can't we talk about that? Well

52:06

I think it's the it's the support thing that is

52:08

the most sort of disheartening as well

52:10

that you not there's like literally no support

52:12

there for you

52:13

you know. I also think yeah but the race element

52:15

is just awful. Of course of course

52:17

that is awful as well. No but also when I was

52:19

like

52:20

when I was when I first started

52:23

in TV I had another

52:26

British Muslim Pakistani woman who then became

52:28

my mentor taught me how to get an

52:30

agent, taught me

52:32

commissioned the first few of my shows,

52:34

championed me but then when she

52:36

left

52:37

like I shouldn't have to wait for the next brown person

52:40

to come and champion me again.

52:42

Like we talk about diversity pots and

52:44

we talk about all of this kind of stuff but

52:46

no not really why are we waiting for the next

52:48

Muslim story for me to be able to cover? Like

52:51

it's not

52:53

or if I pick something I really

52:55

want to talk about and it's like well you

52:57

know you don't really have a personal link to that

52:59

enough. I was told I don't have a personal like what

53:02

is marine's personal link to this when I wanted

53:04

to do something in schools?

53:08

But when Louis Theroux talks about

53:10

anorexia has he suffered with

53:12

it himself or when Stacey Dooley goes

53:14

and talks about whatever she doesn't have to the

53:17

double standards and the absolute like poor

53:19

way we treat diversity in this industry is

53:22

shameful. I

53:24

do think a lot of organisations are

53:28

perhaps lying to themselves that that feels

53:30

strong maybe it's true actually about how

53:32

good they are at diversity or for

53:34

example when it was International Women's Day the other day there's

53:36

a fantastic account on Twitter it's

53:38

a bot of some sort and it retweets every organisation

53:41

that says

53:42

Happy International Women's Day and says the

53:45

the parity in this institution

53:47

is 50%

53:49

love for women etc and it basically

53:51

calls out everything and nearly all of them are

53:54

love for women and they're all going out they're going hands

53:56

to have the International Women's Day and I think it's probably

53:58

the same with diversity I think a lot

53:59

of organisations. I don't know whether

54:02

they think they're doing well and they're not or they're lying

54:04

to themselves or they're lying to everyone else but it's

54:06

nearly always a bit of a smokescreen.

54:08

Yeah 100% I think they um

54:11

there's only room for one type of diversity

54:13

at a time so

54:15

you

54:16

just gotta wait your turn.

54:19

Yeah it's um do

54:21

you feel sort of feel like you get sort of pigeonholed

54:24

then? I was completely

54:26

pigeonholed in my first year

54:29

um everything I was getting was like as

54:31

a Muslim woman, as a Muslim woman you

54:34

know doing something about Lucas Aid, as

54:36

a Muslim woman, Maureen loves Lucas Aid it was ridiculous.

54:41

And then I kind of made a real conscious effort to

54:43

break out of that um so then I

54:45

started doing a lot of I was given lots of fish out

54:47

of water, Maureen's from London she's never seen trees

54:49

before we're gonna send her to talk about trees

54:52

and we're gonna send her to the countryside and make

54:54

her see salmon and I was like wow animals

54:56

and I thought God why have I

54:59

like why have I dumbed myself down

55:01

so it's fun for a bit it's funny for

55:03

a bit but I'm a teacher

55:06

I really can't be playing this wow

55:09

salmon like I can't be playing

55:11

that forever so then we kind of reevaluated

55:14

everything again I said I really want to talk about

55:16

other things that I ended up doing um a

55:18

year of the wealth gap so we looked

55:20

at Inside Chelsea which is a really

55:23

lovely doc actually I'm really proud of that one um looking

55:25

at the wealth gap in London um in

55:28

a borough in London and then I did like

55:30

the truth about cosmetic treatments because we're looking more

55:32

at body image and things so it

55:35

was starting to go in the right

55:37

direction because also don't forget

55:39

like I didn't know anything about TV so

55:41

I was very much learning the craft

55:44

when people were saying do a box pop it's like what's a box pop

55:47

um

55:48

box pops are horrible here's the first I

55:50

really enjoy them first the first couple

55:52

of years I was very much just sort of learning and

55:54

sort of realizing that actually

55:56

I can write a bit of my own calm and I can

55:59

So just when I was saying,

56:02

well, now I should start thinking about what I want

56:04

my body of work to look like, what do I actually,

56:07

you know, what do I actually want to do rather than

56:09

ideas that are just coming to me, Covid

56:11

happened. Yeah, bad

56:15

timing.

56:15

I have to admit you're definitely, you're

56:17

definitely made for what you're doing then because

56:19

I used to hate doing Fox Fox when I was

56:21

a local reporter. I used to hate

56:24

them.

56:24

Why? I don't

56:26

know. Talk to the public now. Yeah,

56:28

maybe different now. I don't know. But like then

56:30

I just hate approaching people and like accosting

56:33

them. And but it was always really dumb questions

56:35

like, what do you think about the potholes on Main

56:37

Street? No one cares

56:40

about.

56:41

But I love that. I think normal people

56:43

are.

56:46

It's like I love teenagers

56:48

because there's no they're no mind games. It's

56:50

like if they like you, I say this

56:52

line in my book and I say if they like you, they'll get

56:54

your best teacher mug. If they hate you, they'll throw a chair

56:57

at you. There's no mind games. There's no reading

56:59

between the lines. And I think similar with box pops,

57:01

like

57:02

rather than

57:03

talking to people about I don't

57:06

know, I was at an event recently and they

57:08

were talking about rhubarb. It's rhubarb

57:10

back in fashion. I didn't realize rhubarb. I was like,

57:12

what are you talking about? Box

57:15

pops, you get the regular person walking down, go

57:17

about their daily business, affected by the cost of living crisis,

57:19

have a chat with them. Like I much prefer

57:22

that. It's

57:23

a bit more, bit more real. So

57:27

I don't have two things I wanted to ask

57:29

for earlier. Firstly, Hannah Montana-ing it. Love

57:32

that. Never heard that before. Love that as

57:34

a phrase. Definitely going to be starting to use that. Yeah, that's

57:36

great.

57:36

When you were still teaching, but you were

57:39

getting the the BAFTA and that stuff

57:41

was starting to roll on. Did that give

57:43

you more credit with

57:46

the kids at school? Surely that must have brought

57:48

you some credit. Do you know a lot of our kids

57:50

didn't watch TV. So

57:53

they kind of knew, they

57:55

kind of knew because someone had heard or

57:57

something like that.

58:00

So yeah, some of them knew and it was kind of cool because

58:02

our teacher are you famous but

58:05

But it wasn't that big a deal because no one

58:07

watches documentaries of like as in no

58:09

one in my school at that point watch documentaries and

58:12

So it wasn't yeah Sometimes they say oh

58:14

miss I was like my mum was

58:16

going through the TV and then you were on it and

58:18

it was quite Cool, but I am

58:20

I was a really cool teacher. I didn't

58:22

need TV to give me that extra kind of credit

58:25

I already had that

58:27

The right answer It's

58:29

funny actually like going to the Parents

58:32

evening last night all the teachers are brilliant

58:34

obviously, but you can sort of pick out the cool

58:37

ones. Oh, yeah, they're cool No,

58:41

no just like a vibe just like an energy about

58:45

And sometimes it's not it's not everyone

58:47

thinks oh is it like it's cuz you're young it's

58:49

cuz you're Actually, it's not there

58:51

are a lot of young attractive teachers who kids hate

58:55

It might be exciting for the first day where everyone has a

58:57

little giggle because you've got a fit teacher But it wears

58:59

off very quickly Sometimes

59:02

it's like super old teachers who

59:04

just they just got

59:06

I think kids can really tell when

59:08

a teacher really cares about them I think

59:10

they've got a real they can sniff it out. They

59:12

can tell when you are just trying to be

59:14

an ass and when

59:16

you're just trying to be a dictator and you're just trying

59:18

to and they can tell when you're saying something for their Own

59:21

benefit because you really care about them. Yeah,

59:23

and kids kids Every

59:25

kid wants to hear that surely even kids that come

59:27

in to me with a bit bullshit or whatever and and they're

59:29

giving off A vibe of don't give a fuck about anything

59:32

every kid wants to be Appreciated

59:35

what we all do as humans listen to validated

59:38

Scene and I think teachers that can do

59:40

that. I mean my god that is that's a that's a real

59:42

skill Yeah, the ones who the kids who

59:45

seem like they don't give it give her anything

59:50

Are the ones who probably need love the most Most

59:53

of the time it's the ones who don't

59:55

turn up to parents evening who need

59:57

that parents evening the most It's the one like

1:00:00

Yeah. Going on to your, obviously your later

1:00:02

projects, like the podcast and writing, it

1:00:04

feels like you may be getting a bit more autonomy

1:00:06

on your creative career, doing those kind of things.

1:00:09

Has that been enjoyable, gotten of doing

1:00:11

your own stuff?

1:00:12

Yes, it's been enjoyable and it's been

1:00:15

intentional.

1:00:21

It feels really great to be able

1:00:23

to do things that are in my own words and my own

1:00:25

voice because often

1:00:27

in TV,

1:00:29

you are the face of something, but

1:00:31

then everything you shoot for six months gets condensed

1:00:33

into 60 minutes and then someone else

1:00:35

writes your comm and someone else edits and someone else, and

1:00:38

by the time it's gone through all those layers, you watch it

1:00:40

and you're like, even you don't know what you're about to watch.

1:00:43

And you are just the face of it. Whereas writing

1:00:46

my book, I had the most wonderful, wonderful

1:00:49

editor

1:00:50

and we had

1:00:52

a bit of a bidding war

1:00:54

for my book, but the reason

1:00:57

why I went with her is because she

1:01:00

gave me just full and complete ownership and she

1:01:02

was like literally, she

1:01:04

would make some changes and suggestions, but she'd

1:01:06

be like, you can ignore all of them if you want

1:01:08

to, because this is your story, these are your words.

1:01:12

And that was the most beautiful, that's

1:01:14

why that book is so close

1:01:17

to my heart because that is my baby, that is my

1:01:19

words, that is my life. It's part memoir. It's

1:01:21

literally

1:01:22

my story. You can't

1:01:25

take it out of context really as in

1:01:28

I can't blame anyone else. Everything I say in that I stand

1:01:30

by 100% because it's genuinely how

1:01:32

I feel. It's no one else's kind

1:01:35

of input. And equally with

1:01:37

Secret Life of Teachers, the podcast

1:01:39

literally was like that time

1:01:41

when I was explaining that we were like, our teacher's going to go back

1:01:44

to school, my brother and sister, they're going to have to go back

1:01:46

into COVID land and what's

1:01:48

going to happen. And everyone schools were

1:01:50

in the headlines. Everyone was talking about the government

1:01:52

was introducing, we might have bubbles and we're

1:01:54

going to make a put a one way system

1:01:57

into schools because all the kids are going to

1:01:59

follow the one way system.

1:01:59

system and all this kind of nonsense

1:02:02

and

1:02:04

I was lying in bed as I usually do

1:02:06

at 2 a.m. and I can't sleep in my mind as an overdrive

1:02:09

and I thought I want to do a podcast where I

1:02:11

get teachers

1:02:12

to sit down and

1:02:14

have a chat and I want people to hear these

1:02:16

chats. I wanted to hear the chats that we have at the dining

1:02:18

table because with a family that's

1:02:21

deeply rooted in education when

1:02:23

we have our friends come in, my best friend's a teacher,

1:02:25

when we have everyone come over

1:02:27

I want people to hear those real conversations,

1:02:30

not the headlines, not the government's plans and

1:02:32

I wrote out a one-pager about exactly

1:02:34

what I want that podcast to look like,

1:02:37

sent to the BBC the next morning, same day got the green

1:02:39

light and yeah

1:02:42

it was wonderful because it was literally

1:02:45

majority my family friends

1:02:47

but also we like got other teachers

1:02:49

from other walks of life and

1:02:52

it was a bit annoying we couldn't do it in person so it was

1:02:54

kind of it was on zoom which delays

1:02:57

everything a little bit but it was

1:02:59

yeah it was great

1:03:01

I love the fact that I'm

1:03:03

finally kind of merging my two worlds together

1:03:05

so

1:03:05

even with my new project with Glow Up Your Grade

1:03:08

I am mixing my presenting

1:03:11

with my teaching and

1:03:12

I'm able to do something which feels a bit more

1:03:14

rewarding and like it's got a bit

1:03:16

of soul and heart in it it feels like it's making

1:03:18

a difference but I'm not going back into a school

1:03:21

I don't feel like I'm moving backwards so

1:03:24

I feel like I'm definitely in some sort of liminal

1:03:26

stage and I feel like I'm definitely on some sort

1:03:28

of journey where

1:03:31

dots are slowly

1:03:33

adding up and leading towards something

1:03:35

but I'm at that point where I don't actually know what that something is

1:03:38

right now is it going to be writing more books straight

1:03:40

away is it going to be doing more of this kind

1:03:42

of

1:03:43

Glow Up Your Grade teaching resources

1:03:45

and resources for young people for mental health

1:03:47

well-being that kind of stuff is it going

1:03:49

to be something completely different I don't really

1:03:52

know at this point in time I'm not going to carry on TV

1:03:54

for a bit and see if I can totally like

1:03:56

smash it and buy a big

1:03:58

house I don't know Well,

1:04:02

you are smashing it. And I think it's those

1:04:04

kind of, I

1:04:07

know that very well from being a freelancer, that

1:04:09

this sort of combo of emotion of like excitement

1:04:12

and maybe anxiety of like, Oh, what could happen?

1:04:14

What could not, you know, you

1:04:17

have to sort of ride the wave of those emotions really,

1:04:19

when you're sort of freelance, and especially in this

1:04:21

industry. Yeah, but you are smashing it. Thank

1:04:24

you. It's

1:04:24

a constant hustle,

1:04:27

isn't it? It's a constant grind. It's

1:04:30

obviously it's the freelance life of like,

1:04:32

if you don't work, you don't get paid, so you got to find work.

1:04:34

But it's also this constant like,

1:04:36

2am wake up, I'm gonna write a book. I'm

1:04:39

gonna start a podcast.

1:04:41

And it's that constant, it's again,

1:04:44

it's a lot, but it is, it's becoming more exciting.

1:04:47

And I feel like

1:04:49

after a long time, I feel strangely at

1:04:51

peace with the journey again. And I kind

1:04:53

of feel like

1:04:55

it's got to work out at some point, all

1:04:57

of this grinding and hustling, all of this

1:04:59

hard work, all of this being

1:05:01

put through shit sometimes, all

1:05:04

of this having the best intentions and

1:05:06

always wanting to

1:05:08

always having a greater purpose of

1:05:10

wanting to help people, which has always been in

1:05:12

me, it's got to all

1:05:15

add up at some point. So I feel

1:05:17

less anxious and less stressed

1:05:19

for the last few months. And I feel a bit more like,

1:05:22

I'm gonna make something happen, just need to figure out what that

1:05:24

something is.

1:05:26

I'm sure you will. I'm sure you will. It will

1:05:28

probably become apparent without you even

1:05:30

realising it. Well, I

1:05:32

was gonna say, but I mean, I think that's a good

1:05:34

way to approach things. But also, think about

1:05:37

how many kids will have watched glow up your grades.

1:05:40

And maybe it helps them with an exam or someone

1:05:42

reads a book, someone listens to the podcast, it changes the

1:05:44

way they think. It's already

1:05:46

working out. It's already making a difference, just by

1:05:48

those things.

1:05:49

I think with glow up

1:05:51

your grades, it was something that I wanted to do for

1:05:53

so long,

1:05:54

because there's one me and as much as I volunteer

1:05:57

in places, because I was an examiner for like most

1:05:59

of my teaching career. career as well. So if there's one

1:06:01

thing I know, if there's one thing I know I'm bloody

1:06:03

good at is teaching. I can make kids pass.

1:06:06

I can make them like English. I can make them pass.

1:06:09

And

1:06:10

I wanted to do that on a bigger scale. And I wanted to create

1:06:12

these kind of videos to if kids can't

1:06:14

afford a

1:06:15

private tutor, I wouldn't have been

1:06:17

able to when I was younger, they should have

1:06:19

their own teacher, a teacher who's going to take them

1:06:22

through and also generation has brought up on

1:06:25

social media. I want it to feel young

1:06:28

and I want it to feel engaging and I want it to be on

1:06:30

it. They can watch it on their device and all

1:06:32

of that kind of stuff.

1:06:34

I find

1:06:36

I don't know how sometimes,

1:06:39

see this podcast is really great for me. Sometimes reflection

1:06:42

is a great thing and maybe I don't do it enough. I

1:06:44

wanted it for so long. And then suddenly

1:06:47

I just thought

1:06:49

a few months ago I was volunteering

1:06:51

at this Saturday school.

1:06:53

And the kids were like, I said,

1:06:55

Oh, well, let's talk about this poem. What's it about? And

1:06:58

they had no idea. And I was like, it's literally a couple

1:07:00

of months before GCSEs. How do you not know even

1:07:02

what this poem is about? And they went, Miss, we did

1:07:04

that in year 10 when we were learning online, we

1:07:06

actually don't know what this poem is about. And I thought,

1:07:09

Oh my God, that's it. I'm doing these videos. I'm

1:07:11

making it happen. But how do you do it? I don't

1:07:13

know how to use the camera. I don't know how to edit. So

1:07:15

I started applying for funding. And I was

1:07:17

like applying to all these long fought hate forms,

1:07:19

filling out all these long forms, trying to get funding,

1:07:22

getting rejected. Sorry, we're focusing on primary education.

1:07:24

Sorry, we're doing blah, blah, blah. This

1:07:26

is a nightmare. What's going to happen? And I thought, you know

1:07:28

what, I'm going to use the last of my savings. I'm going to make

1:07:30

these videos. And I contacted my agent and I said,

1:07:32

do you know anyone who can operate a camera

1:07:35

and can help me make these videos

1:07:38

so that I can put them out there before these GCSEs

1:07:40

and the kids can learn what these poems are about? He

1:07:42

said, yes, I know this guy. He'll

1:07:44

do it. And I think it was like three or 4,000 pounds. And

1:07:46

I thought it's going to have to be an investment.

1:07:49

I'm just going to have to do it because I really, I need

1:07:51

to do this. It was one of those, again, it was like post

1:07:53

dad's illness. It was like, I have to do something which

1:07:56

feels like it's

1:07:57

I'm doing something again.

1:07:59

And I was literally about to

1:08:02

sign the contract and say, yep, we're

1:08:04

doing this. I'm paying you this money. We're making the videos.

1:08:06

And just by chance, this guy

1:08:09

I know said, speak to this company. They

1:08:11

might be able to help you. I jumped on 10 minutes

1:08:13

later to resume to that, uh, on

1:08:15

a zoom with that company.

1:08:17

And the same day they gave it, they said, yep,

1:08:19

we want to do this. We'll invest however many,

1:08:21

however much money more than I could have ever

1:08:24

afforded. And glow up your grades

1:08:26

happened.

1:08:27

And now I get messages every

1:08:29

single day. I'm going to put some up actually

1:08:31

on my socials tonight. I get messages every

1:08:34

single day of

1:08:35

students who are making

1:08:38

pages and pages of notes using those

1:08:40

videos and parents

1:08:42

and teachers who are using,

1:08:44

like, who are saying that their children

1:08:47

didn't know X, Y and Z, but they've just spent the whole

1:08:49

day watching these videos and look at these notes that they've made.

1:08:52

And it is the best bloody feeling ever. And you

1:08:54

know what? I did that. I bloody

1:08:56

did that. I did that one day and I thought I'm going to do this.

1:08:59

And I have so made that happen. If there are, if

1:09:01

there's one child who will end up passing

1:09:04

and being able to move on to higher education from those

1:09:06

videos, that's a bloody good job.

1:09:08

There's a little catchphrase on

1:09:10

this podcast, which we use quite a lot of time. It's give

1:09:12

yourself the wins. And I think, you know, that's a big

1:09:14

win. You can give yourself.

1:09:15

That's a big win. There

1:09:17

have been some good wins. You know what? I

1:09:19

feel like I often talk about all the bad points,

1:09:22

um,

1:09:23

yeah, but they

1:09:26

have been good.

1:09:28

Yeah, they have been wins. I,

1:09:30

I was brought up on a council estate. We didn't

1:09:32

even have like a stable home.

1:09:34

We moved house all the time. I went to

1:09:37

how many different schools? There was no

1:09:39

foot in the door. There was no network

1:09:42

that would help me. There was nothing. I ended up on

1:09:44

mainstream BBC one and BBC two. That was off

1:09:47

my own bloody back. Like

1:09:49

give credit, but and I don't think I get

1:09:51

enough credit for the fact that I was leading major as a

1:09:53

Brown, 20

1:09:54

something year old

1:09:57

woman working class.

1:09:59

say no context, no anything. That

1:10:02

was a pretty incredible achievement

1:10:05

in itself.

1:10:06

And the fact that now

1:10:08

I've got my book.

1:10:09

I've got a book. You can go and buy my book.

1:10:11

My story, whether no one, like if

1:10:13

no one ever buys it ever again, but it's out there,

1:10:15

like in a hundred years time,

1:10:18

someone will be able to find out

1:10:20

about my life from that book. That's pretty

1:10:22

amazing.

1:10:24

Yeah. And it's really nice hearing you

1:10:26

say that. It's really, really nice hearing you vocalise

1:10:29

that and say it out loud because you are an inspiration

1:10:31

and what I love and just listening to you in the

1:10:34

last, well actually the whole book, I was a certain last 10, 15

1:10:36

minutes is you lead with your heart.

1:10:38

You clearly lead with your heart and you do things that are important

1:10:40

to you. And I think that really reflects back in

1:10:42

the things you do. And it's lovely to hear. And I've

1:10:44

literally got a tab open now to buy your book as well,

1:10:46

which is what I was doing while you were talking there. So yeah,

1:10:49

you are fantastic.

1:10:50

Thank you. I appreciate it. I think

1:10:53

I come from a really, really, really great family. I've

1:10:56

got

1:10:57

my family has brought

1:10:59

my parents have brought me up

1:11:01

and my older brothers, I'm the baby. My brother's 12 years

1:11:03

older than me. My sister's eight is older than me.

1:11:06

And they always said, you

1:11:08

don't chase money. You don't chase fame

1:11:10

because all of those things, A, don't

1:11:12

get you respect and B, that

1:11:14

you can lose them at any time.

1:11:17

So they always taught us A,

1:11:19

to really value education

1:11:21

and B, to everything you do, you

1:11:24

do it to help people

1:11:27

basically. And that is the, and

1:11:30

you know what? Like sometimes I think maybe

1:11:32

if my parents did X, Y

1:11:34

and Z, we'd be living in a really nice house right

1:11:36

now. Maybe if, but actually know what

1:11:38

they have always stood by and their children therefore

1:11:41

have always stood by is that you've got to serve

1:11:43

others

1:11:44

and you, you serve

1:11:46

God through serving others. And

1:11:49

if that, that's a, what's the saying? Is it that's

1:11:51

the hill I'm willing to die on? Is that the saying?

1:11:54

Yeah. I'm happy to stand by that. If there's

1:11:56

nothing else, but I can say, do you know what? I might

1:11:58

not have been.

1:12:00

I don't know, in Hollywood, by the end

1:12:02

of it, but I know everything

1:12:05

I have done, I have done with

1:12:07

the purpose of like serving

1:12:12

the community, serving the students that I teach, serving my

1:12:14

parents, like I've done

1:12:16

it with the best of intentions and I can say that wholeheartedly.

1:12:19

That's lovely, yes, really lovely. Thank you,

1:12:22

I really, really, really enjoyed it. That

1:12:24

felt so lovely, didn't it? That felt like such a lovely

1:12:27

chat. Yeah.

1:12:28

I really enjoyed

1:12:31

it.

1:12:47

Maureen Begg on the Blank Podcast

1:12:50

there. What a fantastic person.

1:12:52

Really, really interesting insight into her

1:12:54

experiences in education and then moving

1:12:57

into broadcasting as well. Someone

1:13:00

with passion for both sectors there, both

1:13:02

industries, which really shines through and

1:13:04

I'm very excited to see what

1:13:06

she does next. So really

1:13:09

appreciate her coming on, just a fantastic individual

1:13:11

and doing a lot of great work helping

1:13:14

a lot of people. So yeah, brilliant.

1:13:17

Thank you for coming

1:13:17

on, Maureen. Yeah, goodness me. I'd love

1:13:20

to have her to be my English teacher

1:13:22

at secondary school because I would have definitely got

1:13:25

a lot more out of it, I think. I

1:13:27

remember having very kind of passive,

1:13:30

I guess, the most kind way of putting it,

1:13:32

teachers who weren't necessarily as engaged

1:13:36

with the pupils at my old school.

1:13:38

But I think it's just really lovely

1:13:40

to see. And obviously I've got a child that's

1:13:43

going through GCSEs at the moment and

1:13:45

a wife who's a teacher. So this is

1:13:47

something that I'm very kind of keyed

1:13:49

into at the moment, particularly our education

1:13:51

system. I think the flaws with our education

1:13:53

system, the things that we could be changing for the better. And

1:13:58

that's another big debate, obviously.

1:13:59

you see sort of

1:14:02

education systems around the world that I feel

1:14:04

personally would we

1:14:05

would benefit from in this country particularly like Scandinavian

1:14:08

models where you know we start

1:14:10

a bit late the children start a bit later and they

1:14:14

they could encompass the arts a lot more I

1:14:16

think we we don't do that enough in this country and

1:14:20

we've got a huge creative

1:14:22

industry that brings in lots of money

1:14:25

so I think you know that actually focusing

1:14:27

on those things a bit more than the academic stuff

1:14:29

because not every child is academic

1:14:32

I think that's something but that's another debate but

1:14:35

it's great to hear

1:14:35

from Aireen

1:14:38

and like how she sees how

1:14:40

things could change a little bit and how the thing she's

1:14:43

passionate about and yes

1:14:45

she's just a really really engaging person

1:14:47

and yeah Glarp Your Grades is fantastic

1:14:49

if you've got if any ones listening and their

1:14:51

children are going through GCSEs at the moment

1:14:53

and need a little bit extra support

1:14:56

particularly around for example my

1:14:58

son's in his English is a lot of focus on poetry

1:15:01

and Maireen does a lot of stuff

1:15:03

on poetry and engaging with poetry which

1:15:05

is you know not always something

1:15:07

that 15 year olds are that into

1:15:10

so yeah loads of great stuff with the

1:15:12

Glarp Your Grades which you can find on YouTube

1:15:14

but yeah just check out her

1:15:17

social channels and you can you know

1:15:20

lots of lots of really interesting links

1:15:23

to to various different things in the education system

1:15:25

which I think would be really beneficial for a lot of people and

1:15:28

also do get her book as

1:15:30

well which I actually ordered a copy

1:15:32

of went straight to I'm

1:15:35

not sure where I got it from I tried not to get it from the

1:15:37

big place yeah

1:15:40

hidden lessons I've got a quick dip

1:15:42

into it already but I'm gonna sit down and my

1:15:44

wife who does drama teaching as well on

1:15:46

the side was like oh that looks good so

1:15:49

I think we're both gonna dip into

1:15:49

it and check it out so do we'll put a link in the show notes

1:15:52

below so people can buy a copy of that if they like the sound

1:15:54

of it hidden lessons to

1:15:56

go and growing up on the front line of teaching

1:15:59

that's the full title

1:15:59

Do go and buy that as well and

1:16:02

support Marine in all the work that she does.

1:16:04

Yeah, fantastic, fantastic episode.

1:16:06

Very pleased to have had her on and

1:16:09

yeah, it's nice when you kind of meet these

1:16:11

people for the first time as well and just have a chimp

1:16:13

wag with them and then you find you on

1:16:15

the same page with a lot of stuff. Oh,

1:16:18

same page, very good. Yeah,

1:16:20

I know. Good stuff.

1:16:22

Another great episode in the can. Looking

1:16:24

forward to next week's episode. We're

1:16:28

doing well at the moment, aren't we? We've

1:16:30

got some goodons. Oh, well

1:16:32

we always try to get the good

1:16:34

ones on. Yeah, I think we do. Yeah,

1:16:37

I think we do. So

1:16:39

what's next week? It's

1:16:41

the week after Easter.

1:16:43

Nothing special, is it? Anyway, I was just going

1:16:46

to say, I hope you have a good week, but I think post

1:16:48

Easter, everyone's probably going to be a bit... Do

1:16:51

you know what? It's probably one of those weeks, but like post Christmas,

1:16:53

where everyone's a bit like, sort of back

1:16:55

to whatever. Whatever you're doing this

1:16:58

week, listeners, and you, Giles, do something

1:17:00

for yourself. Find a little thing for yourself,

1:17:02

be it go for a run or read

1:17:04

a book or cinema or whatever. I think it's going to be one of

1:17:06

those weeks that I think you need to

1:17:09

treat yourself, I think.

1:17:10

Well, likewise, Jim. And I think, yeah, we've probably

1:17:12

all been eating

1:17:16

and consuming a lot of chocolate. So

1:17:19

yes, I'll definitely be getting back on the exercise

1:17:21

bike this week. Yeah, exactly.

1:17:24

Do whatever makes you feel good this week

1:17:26

and give you the win,

1:17:27

as we say on the podcast. Exactly, gives you the win. Right,

1:17:30

have a good week, mate. I will see you next week. Indeed.

1:17:34

And remember, don't.

1:17:36

Don't get cancelled. That's the one.

1:17:54

Thank you.