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1:07

Hello and welcome to the Blank Podcast. The

1:09

podcast where we talk to well-known guests about their

1:11

lives, their careers, and

1:13

navigating those difficult moments along the way.

1:15

I'm Giles P. Phillips and my co-pilot

1:18

on this journey of discovery

1:21

is Jim Daly. It

1:25

sounded a bit wanky. It sounded a bit wanky, didn't it? And

1:28

you imagine if your pilot came over the intercom and went,

1:30

welcome aboard this flight to Cairo? I

1:33

don't know. Cairo. We're

1:35

going to Egypt, aren't we? Anyway,

1:39

yes, I am your co-pilot and it's

1:41

lovely to be here. How are you?

1:44

All right. Do

1:47

you want me to elaborate? If

1:49

you want to, I would never force you to.

1:52

But if you'd like to elaborate, you can. But

1:54

you don't have to. This is the thing, like in

1:57

conversations, you don't always have to

1:59

elaborate. You can just say, I'm

2:01

fine and leave it at that. Sometimes you don't

2:03

want people to elaborate actually. I

2:07

mean, from a personal point of view, sometimes you don't feel like elaborating.

2:10

Sometimes you just want to be like, yeah, I'm cool. And you

2:12

don't, yeah, it has to. I think I'm

2:14

more of an active listener than an elaborator.

2:16

I think I prefer to hear other

2:18

people's

2:20

stories. You're a talker, are you like

2:22

to talk? I'm the other way around, I'll fill the

2:24

gaps. Yeah. And

2:27

my hairdresser,

2:28

shout out to Luke, he's absolutely lovely. I

2:32

do a lot of the talk. He's a really sweet lad

2:34

and he asks a lot of questions, but

2:37

I do most of the talking. And

2:42

actually I'm really bad at asking him questions about himself.

2:45

Oh, dear. I had a haircut this week, obviously, as you can

2:47

tell. And I spoke

2:50

about myself for about 45 minutes. I'm

2:52

not very good at asking questions back. And when I

2:54

do, about his family and stuff,

2:57

we have really nice chats. I

2:59

get awkward about asking people

3:02

questions about themselves. I feel like it's too intrusive

3:04

sometimes, or I'm going to get things wrong,

3:06

or I'm going to like ask

3:08

the question they didn't want to answer. So I

3:10

just keep it on about me, I'll keep it on about light

3:12

stuff or other stuff, whatever, interesting, until

3:15

I have to leave. Because I've read about this thing called

3:17

conversational narcissism.

3:19

Oh, fuck. Where,

3:23

it's basically people that don't like

3:25

to talk about themselves.

3:29

I don't like talking about myself. No, so that's fine.

3:31

That's, you're not conversational. But I do it because

3:33

I'm feeling the gaps. It's more of a nervous thing, is it? It's a nervous

3:35

thing. I want to feel the gaps and then I'll... That's fine.

3:38

That means you're not a narcissist, it's fine. But

3:41

yeah, so conversational narcissists are

3:43

generally people who like, yeah, they kind of, you

3:45

know when you're talking about something, maybe you've

3:47

got a problem you're talking about and someone will turn it back

3:49

on themselves and then just

3:52

go on about their thing. That's conversational

3:54

narcissism. So you say, I've got a cold. Oh,

3:56

well, yeah, I've had a cold, right? Oh

3:58

yeah.

3:59

I'm dead.

4:00

I'm

4:03

dead. Yeah.

4:05

That's that kind of, yeah. So, and then obviously

4:07

very much kind of take control of conversations

4:10

and don't let the other person speak. I

4:12

do that sometimes, but it's, I think again, it's a nervousness

4:15

thing, but I will, like

4:16

football is a big subject for me. So I'll have to talk about football,

4:18

football, football, just fill that gap and talk about, Oh, do

4:20

you think about Manchester City this season? keep

4:23

it going, keep it going, keep it going. I'll often then come back to

4:25

the same subject and I've already talked about this, but like, there's

4:28

a gap. I'm just going to keep filling it with, Oh

4:30

yeah, I'm paired. Yeah. So

4:33

you just don't like the awkward silence basically.

4:36

Yeah.

4:36

Interesting.

4:39

Interesting. We found out some

4:41

interesting things about you today. Well,

4:45

we, well, on this

4:47

episode, we found out some very interesting things about our

4:49

guest this week, who's been absolutely

4:52

fantastic. It's the wonderful Kat

4:54

Ronson,

4:56

comedian, actor, poet,

4:59

writer, content creator, podcaster,

5:02

Tik Toker. And I

5:04

think we learn a lot about her as well. We learn,

5:06

we learn, I'd say things about all three

5:08

of us on this episode. Yeah. It was quite a candid

5:11

one, wasn't it? Like you and I were talking about our own

5:14

chisel and yeah.

5:16

And yeah, it was great because we talked a lot about

5:18

social media and the impacts it has

5:21

on us as individuals and obviously

5:23

our work and how it's a bit of a

5:25

double edged sword a little bit.

5:30

Agreed. Yes. Sorry. I was just getting a message

5:32

from my wife that I need to be in the house in three minutes.

5:36

This is the problem.

5:37

There's a problem with social media, which we talk, which it does

5:39

not a problem, but this is one of the side effects of your talks about

5:42

about earlier. Well, she tweeted you that then. No,

5:45

it's on WhatsApp. She's what's telling me, but, but

5:49

because the baby's woken needs to feed, she's

5:51

got to be out the door in 15 minutes. But I need to come and

5:53

have lunch. Like it's all life is life

5:55

is a balance. It's a juggling act and it's just,

5:57

it's especially once you have kids.

5:59

A lot of admin. A lot of admin. But

6:03

you even, because I'm recording in the

6:05

studio and like Miranda and I were

6:07

talking a lot recently about how do we get,

6:09

maximize my time, maximize her time so we're both

6:12

productive. So when you go to the studio, you'll

6:14

be away from the house, you know, you can work and stuff,

6:17

but you're still contactable. And then also if there's,

6:20

if there's stuff happening in the house, especially with the baby, I

6:22

want to go and help, you know, it's, it's, it's, I don't

6:25

know, life's difficult and so on. So

6:28

not in a bad way, in a beautiful way, but

6:30

it's just busy. Life is busy and there's

6:33

a lot of admin. Yeah. Yeah,

6:36

there is. And we talked a lot about that with, with Kat and you

6:38

know, it talks obviously about her career as well and

6:40

the highs and lows and kind

6:42

of how we keep

6:44

judging on with this wonderful

6:46

world of creative freelancing.

6:50

Yeah. She's a, I would say a kindred spirit,

6:52

you know, in terms of the stuff we do very

6:54

much understands what we do. And

6:56

we understand what she does. And I think that's really nice to make that

6:58

connection. We talked about partnerships,

7:01

obviously she's in a comedy partnership with Kat Robinson,

7:03

whose previous podcast guest elaborations

7:05

talk about that agents with

7:08

neurodiversity, lots of subjects. Oh,

7:11

so much, so much. Which is makes her

7:13

the perfect guest. We love guests that

7:15

would jump into any subject.

7:17

Well, I think we shouldn't tease

7:19

the listeners any longer. No, I think we should jump

7:21

in ourselves. This is the

7:23

fantastic Kat Ronson on the blank podcast.

7:41

New Year's Eve is going

7:42

to be like the best night of the year. And

7:44

it's always a bit shit. There's a big queue,

7:47

you know, a lot of people around pretty

7:49

much like the coronation really. Yeah,

7:52

it is. It's

7:54

basically like New Year's Eve. I'm

7:57

sure New Year's Eve when I was younger. when

8:00

I was sort of, I suppose when I was first going out to the pub

8:02

stuff, I think the millennium, I

8:04

can't say that word, millennium kind

8:06

of ruined it in general though, because I think pubs

8:09

started charging, didn't they, like to get in and

8:11

all that kind of stuff.

8:12

And before that, it was like the place to be was

8:15

to go down the pub with your mates and like get

8:17

a table really. I remember my friends used to go

8:19

down like four in the afternoon to get a table.

8:22

It makes me laugh how people arrive places

8:25

early, you know, like at festivals when people go like three

8:27

days before, for no reason. People

8:30

are turning off at grass to be like a month before. Literally

8:33

people do that. I know somebody

8:35

who went to Leeds Fest, right, because I'm

8:37

from Leeds, so everyone was buzzing about Leeds

8:39

Festival, went three days before,

8:42

dug a hole, put all his

8:44

alcohol in it,

8:46

dug it back, like covered it back up and

8:48

then undug it at the festival. Oh

8:50

my God, that's- It's getting everyone loaded up alcohol. That

8:53

is a- And it survived. That's actually a really good idea

8:55

though. That is actually, yeah, I mean, you could do

8:57

that with all sorts of substances or alcohol.

8:59

Oh God, you could just supply the entire festival

9:02

with just anything. I

9:05

had to be, I did something similar when I was a kid,

9:08

going to watch Crystal Palace with my mate, Chris. We

9:10

hid beer in a hedge on the way

9:12

from the pub

9:13

to Stellars Park. And

9:16

it was there- It was good there. And we went back

9:18

as well. Yeah, so actually it's a really good tactic

9:20

now, I think about it. Yeah, let's just do that

9:23

for future efforts. Is there anything that you guys would, because

9:25

you're right about people sort of like

9:28

queuing up the stuff, but like people do it for like Apple

9:31

iPhone stuff. Trainers, trainers

9:33

as well. Yeah, is there anything that you would

9:35

queue up for like three

9:37

days in advance?

9:38

I mean, I think a ticket for someone that

9:41

I really wanna see, but not

9:43

three days. I'm sorry, three days,

9:45

that's a bit much. I mean, I know

9:47

we love queuing in the UK, but

9:50

I don't think I've ever queued in advance

9:53

to like buy something. No.

9:57

Because people like, you think about them thinking like things like black.

10:00

Friday where people will queue outside.

10:02

And have fights and die

10:05

at that time. Yeah. Yeah,

10:07

I mean... For the deals! For

10:09

the deals! Yeah, I need to get a new class! I need to get

10:11

a new class! Yeah, it's crazy. But

10:15

now it's different because now you sit on your laptop and

10:17

you just... You bid on eBay and get

10:19

mad in your own home instead. Oh,

10:22

don't start on eBay. I'm an eBay.

10:24

I love it. I'm very into eBay. Are

10:27

you on vintage? Yes. Oh my

10:29

God, that's the next... I'm obsessed.

10:31

I'm obsessed. I am. I've

10:34

got all my shoes from that. I'm on it every

10:36

day, like, fancy on my news feed.

10:39

Yeah, this is everything.

10:41

Yeah, I've got little search things. I'm like,

10:44

every day I've got to check my Crystal Palace top, check my colourful

10:46

standard, check my ball jackets, check my night

10:48

jacket, just in case. Can

10:50

I just ask a question about vintage? Is

10:53

it a bit of a buyer's market? Because it feels

10:55

like... I know some people that are able

10:58

to make a bit of money from vintage setting and

11:00

buying and all that stuff, but it feels like

11:02

everyone's getting a bargain. Everyone

11:04

is getting a bargain, truly. It must be

11:06

a buyer's market, surely. No one's actually making

11:08

that

11:09

much money from vintage. No, I

11:11

don't think they are because, yeah,

11:14

people sell things for like two quid. I don't know

11:16

how they're making any money. And

11:20

I've not bought anything off there that's fake. No,

11:22

neither have I. Yeah, I don't see. Maybe unknowingly,

11:24

but it all seems genuine

11:26

and you can do offers. Yeah.

11:28

I always go two or three pound under just to see what they say. That's

11:31

the thing. I'm cheeky. I'm like, this is

11:33

a reasonably priced garment. I'm going

11:35

to give you an offer three pound below just because

11:37

I can.

11:39

Yeah. And it depends what day you catch the people because

11:42

I've got too fat through lockdown since

11:44

being a dad. So I'm going to just like literally get rid of half

11:47

my wardrobe and then size everything up. So

11:49

I'm selling stuff on that. Have you just

11:51

like you've basically said that's it. I'm

11:54

not. I'm never going to back be

11:56

back to like to all staying again or whatever

11:58

you were. You

11:59

can. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

12:01

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've

12:03

just bought into it. Yeah, this is it. This is

12:05

me now I'm not gonna get it. I just gonna buy new board Jove

12:09

Yeah, it's a much easier way looking

12:12

slimmer just get slightly baggy clothes No,

12:15

I've realized it cuz I cuz I've always been six foot I've

12:17

always been a large really and I've always I've been by mediums

12:19

and smalls and sort of

12:20

dressing like a 70s Plunk,

12:23

I know it basically didn't look good. So

12:25

I've now I'm out actually like sort of like just Accepting

12:27

what it is. But if someone

12:29

low balls me, I actually respect

12:32

it and normally accept the offers Fair

12:35

play mate fair play. I've yet I'll

12:37

do the same so you can have that top for three power

12:41

Psychology behind buying and selling

12:43

and yeah, I just

12:45

feel powerful What's

12:48

your best offer bring me your best offer

12:51

Cuz I could never do it in real life Like if I went into like a

12:54

like a vintage store or something real off I'd end up paying ten

12:56

pound over like my actual negotiating skills

12:58

Are you good online you can just be a

13:00

bit more sort of brutal? That's

13:02

how that's how trolling starts

13:05

do you You

13:08

can just be a bit more like, you know online you

13:11

can just be a bit more kind of Yeah,

13:13

you can say what you like. Oh

13:14

God is open. It's open something

13:17

in me. Yeah, exactly It

13:21

is good though, it is really good. I'm obsessed.

13:23

I don't buy any clothes Like I

13:25

refuse to buy clothes full price now. It kind

13:27

of feels like I'm being robbed. I'm like

13:30

This isn't normal thing paying this amount

13:32

for some trainers Oh, I

13:35

played football on Wednesday at a if they wouldn't

13:37

be my mates like hire a stadium each summer and

13:39

play it like a professional Stadium and they

13:41

gave us four footballs to play with and we lost them somehow

13:44

I don't know how I think any at the stadium would

13:46

just disappear. You just lost them in the I

13:48

don't know the guy Goes like where

13:51

are they? I was like, well, they'll be in the stand somewhere. He said the whole

13:53

stand So I don't know some of the guys Nick. I don't know anyway,

13:55

he said to me Well, you know because that

13:57

would come out of our like

13:59

thing and it costs us 12 quid to make them all. And

14:01

then I checked online, they're selling them for like 55

14:03

quid. I was like, oh, fuck,

14:05

we are always getting done. We're always

14:07

getting done with clothes. So you might as well go

14:10

secondhand or get a

14:12

bargain. I think that's

14:14

the way forward. I also did hear something on the radio a couple

14:17

of years ago that was like, there's

14:19

too many clothes in the world. Oh well, fast fashion

14:21

is actually like the second biggest polluter.

14:23

Like after oil and gas, it's mad.

14:26

Like it's the water usage and

14:28

they pollute. Exactly. Like

14:30

streams, like kids washing,

14:33

like in poorer countries and

14:35

they like pollute all the streams. So it

14:37

is actually fucked up and we're doing well.

14:39

Which means we're good. Exactly, so

14:41

that's when I was like, right, I am

14:43

now determined to only buy secondhand. I'm not gonna

14:45

buy anything.

14:45

And I'm doing a great job at that because I'm

14:47

only on eBay and minted. Yes,

14:51

so pants and socks. Pants and socks

14:53

are gonna lie now. I think I will buy them first hand.

14:56

But I haven't said that. You can get new stuff

14:58

on vintage.

14:59

Well, they claim it's new. With tags, I got some socks.

15:02

So I figured they probably hadn't been

15:03

sweated in yet. But some people like buying

15:06

soiled. Some

15:08

people like soiled. They do, me and Kat

15:10

get a lot of requests for that actually.

15:13

Ah, so interestingly enough, a few weeks

15:15

back, we had a guest on who was doing

15:18

a newspaper article about

15:20

soiled garments. I think it was more

15:22

to do with feet. No, it was feet fetish. Foot

15:25

fetish. Foot pics, okay, yeah.

15:28

And there's like websites now for all that stuff. But

15:30

that's interesting. So you get

15:32

asked for that kind of stuff. Yeah, so while

15:35

we get asked for all sorts of stuff,

15:37

like yeah, feet, feet pictures,

15:40

yeah, worn underwear,

15:43

worn anything really. Kat

15:45

gets asked for like her gym leggings

15:47

to be worn and stuff.

15:49

But it's funny. Who? Sorry,

15:51

what are you gonna say? He's asking. Who the fuck is asking for

15:53

it? Well. You don't wanna know. You don't

15:56

wanna know. I have no idea. They're just these faceless,

15:58

random people.

15:59

getting the DMs like all

16:02

sorts of ranges of people like all ranges

16:05

of ages like you get your younger

16:07

guys or you get like obviously

16:10

yes it's

16:12

pretty mad but it's funny you say about the foot

16:14

thing because I actually have a

16:16

wiki feet page have you heard

16:18

that? Really? Okay we're gonna

16:21

have to like Google this now. It's

16:23

called wiki feet. Yeah wiki feet so it's like it's like Wikipedia

16:25

but for feet

16:28

for

16:33

like different feet. Celebrities

16:36

feet inverted commas. So can

16:39

I just search you up Kat? Yeah so any

16:41

time I post a picture of my

16:43

feet anywhere it will always

16:46

end up on wiki

16:47

feet. It's really

16:49

weird. Does this mean you're officially a

16:51

celebrity? Apparently

16:53

I think that is like the barrier

16:55

you've got breakthrough. There's one of you

16:58

on a bodyboard I guess it is.

17:00

Yeah.

17:03

You're actually looks like you're sort of posing

17:06

the feet a little bit. It's like you're aware that this

17:08

is going to end up on wiki feet.

17:09

Maybe I am. Because

17:11

you look quite carefree but then one

17:13

of your feet just describing this

17:16

for the listeners is sort of like slightly

17:18

upended and the other one is resting

17:21

gently to the other side. But one

17:23

is definitely poking out slightly like you're kind

17:25

of like. How I'm teasing them. Yeah the left

17:27

foot is like yeah come to me. There

17:33

is a way of posing those men in photos

17:35

that make your legs look better.

17:36

Yeah you point the toes. You

17:39

see you point one. Yeah you

17:41

got point the toes a long day. I want to

17:43

be on wiki feet. Can

17:45

you see if I am? I'm going to let you look. Let's

17:48

start your wiki feet. There's

17:52

no there's Jim Daley.

17:55

Listing results for Jim Daley. No search results. I

18:00

think you are. I'm

18:02

thinking the majority of the people on WikiFeet

18:05

might be female. I mean, I don't...

18:07

Yeah, I think it was maybe

18:09

designed for that. Yeah, I

18:12

have also note there's no such results for me

18:14

either. But having said that, by

18:16

the end of today, I'm

18:17

going to... You're going to

18:19

both have a WikiFeet profile. Well,

18:22

I told you Giles didn't I? The last time that... Because

18:25

I've really damaged my toe a couple of years ago, about 10 years

18:27

ago playing football and put it on Twitter. Like, is anyone

18:29

a doctor? What do I do?

18:31

And I see it come up with

18:33

some Crystal Palace fans, use it really

18:35

to troll me. Like, just a picture of my blackened,

18:38

disgusting toe.

18:39

So technically, there is a... There is images

18:41

of your feet. There is images of your feet. We can link it

18:43

somehow. Yeah, there is. Someone's

18:46

going to be into that. Someone's going to be into that. No, someone

18:48

will be, trust me. There's a market

18:50

for blackened toes. What, injured toes?

18:53

Yeah, gangrenous toes, yeah.

18:55

But it hasn't healed since then. It's still...

18:58

OK. I had to go

19:00

to the therapist and he was like, I don't

19:02

know what you've done to your toe, but I can't fix it. So

19:04

there's a constant... If a coon went and made money

19:06

off that, there's a constant stream of... This

19:08

could be a long term investment for you. A

19:11

Kroger, you can find the highest

19:13

quality products at

19:17

a great price in every aisle,

19:19

every day with Kroger brand. So

19:21

you can stock up on your household favorites that

19:23

are tried, tested and loved by you.

19:26

Because when you get the products you love

19:28

at great prices, it feels like winning.

19:31

Shop now in store or online. Kroger,

19:34

fresh for everyone.

19:35

Simply the best. Better

19:41

than all the rest.

19:43

Oh man. Do

19:46

you think if there was... I'm

19:48

going slightly more serious. If there

19:50

was IDs and stuff

19:52

brought into our social media profiles, you have to show

19:54

your face. You can't be face. Do you think you'd get

19:56

you a weird request like that? Oh definitely. because

20:00

like you know once they

20:04

if you say something to them they can just block

20:06

and delete and start a new account straight

20:08

away and there's absolutely no way there's

20:10

no way of knowing who it is like whether

20:13

this person has spoken to you before like

20:15

it

20:16

is actually quite creepy to think of like

20:18

you know they could have come gone back changed

20:21

their identity there's also this one um there's

20:24

a one guy that has messaged us multiple

20:27

times luckily he has the

20:29

same picture so you know who it is and he types

20:31

the same so we can tell but he's changed

20:33

his thing is like

20:35

handle about four different

20:38

times and it's just like

20:40

it's a bit mad like these faceless people

20:42

just coming in and

20:44

well also i guess when you're performing

20:47

are you ever kind of like conscious of that like that

20:50

you know potentially oh i hope

20:52

i'm not making that now thing for

20:55

you but like i wonder sometimes if it is someone

20:57

that maybe you have seen your show and then is sort of

20:59

like you know

21:00

messaging you online now afterwards

21:03

or if it's purely just someone who's sort of seen you online

21:05

yeah i mean we we get a lot

21:07

of people who um do

21:09

come to the show that have followed those online

21:12

for a while but been really

21:14

nice and in general um but

21:16

yeah

21:18

it's more like the there's

21:22

people who

21:24

they'll come in and then they'll

21:26

say something as if they they've actually been talking

21:29

to you for ages and like they know you or

21:31

something and that's when it gets a bit creepy when

21:33

they think that they know you and that you're their friend

21:35

or something um i don't mind

21:37

people being like oh you know really love your work

21:40

and you know i'm gonna come and watch you wherever

21:42

i don't mind about that but

21:44

it's just when when it's a bit over familiar

21:46

and creepy or or

21:48

they're convinced that you're good you're gonna have

21:50

a lot of chemistry if you need so

21:52

won't you just go on a date with me like i'm

21:55

sure we'll get on really well because they think

21:57

that they you're having this

21:59

crap

21:59

back and forth when actually they're just watching you,

22:02

which is quite strange. Yeah.

22:08

And it's like, I guess

22:10

it sucks because putting

22:13

yourself out there and I do this sound a lot of content

22:15

creation and stuff like it's a real thrill

22:17

putting stuff out there and people liking it and stuff and when

22:19

you get people saying love your content it's really nice. And

22:22

you need that platform to do that,

22:25

but you can't

22:28

rely on the audiences to

22:33

be responsible, be mature, take

22:35

that information the way you've

22:37

intended to put it out there. And

22:40

it's just the nature of audiences, but it's really,

22:43

I mean, I don't get, I'm

22:45

a boring white

22:47

guy, so I don't get sort of interactions

22:50

you get. Most of my people get nice

22:52

markets.

22:56

Yeah, I'll forget

22:58

making that profile. I

23:01

guess like there's an element

23:05

of trust when you put stuff out on the internet and the world

23:09

and stuff, but you just can't

23:11

trust audiences to behave.

23:14

Yeah, that's the thing. You put it out there and

23:16

it is kind of like you need the reactions

23:19

to keep fueling what you do, but then

23:23

you also can't really

23:25

control how those reactions make you feel

23:27

because it could be anything. It could be

23:30

go die or something like that being

23:32

said to you, or it could be you're the best

23:34

person ever, but

23:38

you've got to be okay with it regardless of what

23:40

people say to you. You've just got to be like,

23:42

that's okay. I still think the same

23:44

of myself regardless, even though you're

23:47

however people, if people troll you or if

23:49

people are saying really rude

23:51

stuff to you like creepy stuff.

23:56

Yeah, because I guess it's I guess it's

23:59

I would say nearly all. ways were probably a reflection

24:01

of them, than you. It's

24:03

a reflection of who they are or what they're

24:05

going through or

24:07

whatever. You

24:09

know what I mean? I just can't

24:11

imagine I would ever talk like that. No, that's the thing.

24:13

I wouldn't mind that, learning real life. It wouldn't even be... If I don't

24:15

find something funny, I would probably just move

24:18

on from it and not comment on it.

24:20

But Me and Kat did

24:23

a sketch that was about all the guys

24:25

that you need to avoid on social

24:27

media,

24:28

well, on dating apps. And

24:31

it got posted on quite a big comedy page.

24:33

And obviously, the more people

24:36

look at it, the more people can troll

24:38

you. But

24:39

there was no comments

24:42

about... Maybe one or two

24:44

about whether it was funny. They were all about how

24:46

we look, like

24:48

trolling Kat on how she looks,

24:50

saying, making comments about her

24:53

face, making comments about me.

24:55

It was all about how we

24:57

are physical appearance and saying that we're

24:59

not fit enough to be saying

25:01

those things. And that basically, you can't

25:04

have an opinion if you're not

25:06

ridiculously attractive or something.

25:08

It's just mad. But yeah,

25:11

I wouldn't even... I just

25:14

don't know why people think,

25:16

right, I'm gonna... I have the right

25:19

to just go and say that publicly. That's

25:21

mad to me

25:23

because I just would

25:26

shut up and just move on personally.

25:28

Yeah, me too. Yeah.

25:33

I don't know where

25:36

we go from here in regards... I don't mean in the podcast.

25:38

I meant in society. Because I feel

25:41

like we've... Obviously,

25:44

we've opened up this... Yeah.

25:47

The genie's out of the bottle with regards to the

25:49

social media and the impact it has. And for

25:51

all of us as creative freelancers, we kind of need

25:53

it, to a certain extent. But then

25:56

there is the other side of it. And it seems

25:58

to be getting...

26:00

more bleak. I mean, I hear stories

26:02

of people, performers

26:05

who have, you know, people going to theatre

26:07

door and abusing them after shows.

26:09

I've heard about that. Yeah,

26:12

and

26:13

I guess there's a sort of carte

26:16

blanche of ownership that people have now on

26:18

people. Post Covid, post lockdown

26:20

it seems to have got, there's a lot of stories

26:22

about people in West End shows going along and

26:24

sort of singing along at the top of their voices

26:27

and being asked to do that, not

26:29

do that, fighting security. Literally,

26:32

I thought, we all thought that lockdown

26:35

had literally like been a miracle.

26:38

It brought us all together and this

26:40

was going to stick and it just seems to have like

26:43

actually gone like as soon as it was over,

26:45

people gone, yeah, let's make up for all

26:47

the dickhead stuff we haven't been

26:50

doing. It's just

26:52

going to overdrive or something.

26:55

It's like the worst

26:56

stag do's ever

26:59

all just got together and we're like, let's

27:01

just be as horrendous as

27:03

possible. Very strange

27:05

sort of like window into the human psyche of what

27:07

happens when people get,

27:09

well, I guess locked up essentially. It's

27:11

very weird. I want, do you think people, more

27:15

so on trolling, I guess, do you think people were always like that

27:18

or do you think the mediums have opened it up? I'm

27:20

trying to think like back in the day, I guess like people would

27:22

write maybe hate mail. People are going

27:24

to write hate mail. You've got to sit down, get a

27:27

pen, get a bit of paper, write out

27:29

the address, get a stamp. People

27:31

used to write now. It

27:32

is a little bit elaborate to tell someone

27:34

you hate, isn't it? Well you used

27:37

to be like points of view. You'd write

27:39

to points of view and you'd say, dear points

27:42

of view, that show was shit. I

27:46

really hated it. Or, oh,

27:48

I was wanting to watch the latest

27:50

David Attenborough documentary, but the snooker

27:53

overran for an hour.

27:55

Now it's like 24

27:57

hour, like just, I can just. You'd

28:00

have to wait a month for your trolling

28:02

to be exposed. But

28:06

now it's like 24 seven news site, you know,

28:08

like we can just, and we have access

28:10

to everybody. Don't we? I suppose that's the other thing. I think it

28:12

has definitely made

28:13

things worse. Yeah. Worse. Yeah.

28:16

I think it has brought things out of people

28:19

because I think people felt a bit more ashamed

28:22

to have these like persuasions before,

28:24

whereas now everyone's seems like

28:27

you have, like for every opinion

28:30

that you have, there's a herd of people who are

28:33

also like, yeah. So there's

28:36

no need to hide it. Like even

28:38

if you've got quite like a heinous opinion, like

28:40

you can put it online and someone's going to agree with

28:42

it. Yeah. Which is mad.

28:45

Yeah. People felt more shame before definitely.

28:48

Yeah. I think you're absolutely right. There's more validation

28:51

now with it from other people. Yeah. Cause you can have the most,

28:53

sorry, go on, I was going to say you can have the most extreme

28:56

view on something and you will find someone else

28:58

who will say, Oh yeah, I agree with that.

29:01

You could love blackened toes. And that'd be

29:03

at least not the person out there. Yeah.

29:05

I think that'd be quite a few actually

29:07

too. Charles, you googled it for me again, please. We're

29:10

in my search history. Do

29:13

you just block then Kat? Do

29:15

you have a policy for sort

29:17

of trolling? Do I have a policy?

29:22

I think when it comes to pictures,

29:24

receiving pictures, that definitely

29:26

gets a block, 100%.

29:29

You can restrict people

29:32

so they can just basically talk to themselves

29:34

forever and you don't get any notifications.

29:37

It's quite great. It's like an echo chamber for them.

29:40

That's good. That's on Instagram. Yeah.

29:42

On Instagram. I think the worst messages

29:45

are definitely on Instagram. Oh

29:47

really interesting. Cause yeah, because you

29:50

kind of feel like Twitter's

29:52

this wild West where people just like horrendous.

29:56

And then you sort of think, well, and

29:58

this is only coming from my experience of it.

30:00

it seems like it's all right. Yeah,

30:02

I've never had one on Twitter. Oh, I've

30:04

had one tweet that was a bit rogue,

30:07

which said,

30:09

so I have epilepsy and

30:12

did a joke about it and it

30:14

went viral on TikTok. Then

30:16

I got this tweet from this guy saying,

30:19

saw your TikTok about

30:22

epilepsy. If you

30:24

don't have epilepsy, don't know how it works,

30:27

but if you don't have it, I hope you contract

30:29

it. Fuck it now.

30:32

Jesus Christ. Oh

30:34

no. But that's the only bad

30:37

tweet I've ever got, ever

30:39

actually, which is quite good. That's

30:42

not bad. That's actually, I mean, it is bad.

30:44

It's a bad tweet. Yeah, but

30:46

it's the only one on Twitter ever,

30:48

which is quite mad really. But

30:52

your experience has been worse on Instagram.

30:55

Yes, 100%. I mean, we do a podcast called Reading Our DMs, where

30:57

we read all the worst DMs,

30:59

and

31:05

all of them are off Instagram, maybe

31:07

about

31:08

five and not on Instagram.

31:11

Recently got a Dick pic email.

31:15

An email? Yes, an email. That sounds so

31:17

weird. I don't know why that's funny. No,

31:19

it is. That used to be like Dick pic carrier

31:22

pigeon. Yes, some polaroids.

31:27

Oh my God, that's horrendous. That's an

31:29

attachment. But with

31:31

that, and then the guy tweeting you, they've had

31:33

to like... It's a lot of time. Yeah,

31:36

and there's various barriers to

31:39

stop. It's not just like an instant

31:42

thing, oh, I better go and find

31:44

her out on Twitter. Oh, I better go and find her email. A few hurdles

31:46

to overcome in all of this. Yeah,

31:50

there's a few times that they were like

31:52

reflect on what they were doing. Because

31:57

there is a thing on Twitter now, isn't there?

31:59

I don't troll

32:02

people but I will often... When

32:04

you start a sentence with I don't troll

32:06

but... I don't troll but...

32:09

It's not as long as it is. Politics

32:13

gets me angry so I'll often sub-tweet

32:16

about politicians, normally Tory politicians.

32:19

And if you... I know

32:22

it's not good. But if you say

32:24

something angry, a little box pops up saying

32:26

are you sure you want to tweet this? And numerous

32:29

times... What's that

32:30

happen to me? Is that because me and Giles haven't

32:32

tweeted anything angry so we haven't got it yet?

32:36

I'm tempted to go on and tweet something like you bastards

32:38

or something as it happens. I

32:40

mean it may have been removed since Elon

32:43

must have over Twitter. Yeah

32:44

I think he's done... So literally

32:46

I've typed in you bastards and I'm

32:49

about to hit tweet. It's not strong enough mate.

32:53

Please tweet that. No don't.

32:54

But being... There was

32:57

numerous times when it did stop me tweeting

32:59

it. It made me think oh actually

33:01

who cares about this? No. It's not going to change

33:03

anything. You're just being angry. In fact actually

33:06

this morning I drove my daughter

33:08

to nursery and we drive past

33:10

the primary school she's going to go to hopefully and then up the

33:12

road to her nursery. And the traffic's always horrendous

33:14

because you've got the primary school everyone parking and

33:17

then nursery and then this morning there was

33:19

the bin drivers and it was

33:21

all chaos. And I always try and pull

33:23

in and be kind and let people come through rather than squeezing

33:25

in. I

33:26

pulled in and three cars from behind me

33:29

overtook me. Like literally I was on the road. And

33:31

I was clearly waiting and I was like are you fucking

33:33

joking me? And I sort of did a bit of like that

33:36

and then I drove on and I heard myself

33:38

go fuck me and I thought oh shit my

33:40

daughter's in the back of the car. I think I got away with

33:42

it under my breath because we had frozen music playing

33:44

anyway. And I got to

33:46

drop her off at the school and I walked back to the car. And

33:48

I remember saying to myself just

33:51

let it go. Just let it go. Like it's not.

33:53

What like frozen? I was still quite angry about it. Let

33:56

it go.

33:59

Thank you Elsa, thank you Queen Elsa. You thought you came

34:02

up with that idea yourself, just let it go. You just

34:04

let it go? It was

34:06

there though. If I'd been listening to The Lion King, I'd have been going,

34:08

you know what Jim, Hakuna Matata. Yeah, it doesn't

34:11

matter. But

34:13

I... I'm happy it was frozen.

34:16

But I watched it, because I think I could

34:18

in the past have let that

34:21

really annoy me. Because they were really like...

34:23

Dangerous driving, everyone's got kids in the car,

34:25

really rude. I was trying to be a good driver.

34:28

No, it annoyed me. But

34:31

I remember just thinking like, what's

34:33

it going to serve me for the rest of the day? Like, just crack on. There's

34:36

other things to do. And then it makes the next...

34:38

If they're going to drive like dick. Yeah, it makes the next thing worse

34:40

if you get all irate of that.

34:42

Then the next thing is even worse and then, yeah,

34:44

it just goes on.

34:46

Nip it in the bud. But that's... Nip

34:49

it in the bud completely. But that has taken me 38 years

34:51

to get to. It's been a

34:54

long process. But it is...

34:56

I find that... Well, that came

34:58

too much into a therapy session. Or this is often what

35:00

this podcast ends up being like. I

35:03

do find that anger is a quick

35:05

emotion for me. Or maybe

35:07

not an emotion, like a reaction maybe sometimes.

35:10

If stuff is annoying or whatever. I

35:12

think I quickly sort of go to get

35:14

annoyed about stuff. And

35:17

I'm trying to bring it back to social media. Maybe that

35:20

happens to people in line sometimes. And so they're

35:22

actually maybe

35:24

worried or frustrated or scared.

35:26

Fear is like a big driving emotion about other

35:28

stuff. Yeah. But it comes out in anger. And

35:31

that's when it comes out in the trolling.

35:32

In particular, I think anger

35:34

is our most palatable

35:37

emotion. Like

35:39

sadness and grief and

35:41

shame are horrible things

35:43

to admit. Whereas anger, it's like anger is

35:46

easy. We can all get angry in line

35:48

and that's acceptable.

35:50

Whereas crying in public

35:52

and going, that's vulnerable,

35:55

which isn't as easy for us to just display

35:57

to anyone. So yeah,

35:59

I think it is. the more manageable first

36:01

emotion isn't it?

36:04

I completely agree and I see it a lot in, I play

36:06

a lot of football and I've joined a lot of teams, I

36:08

see it a lot in football teams, there

36:10

are some guys who are

36:13

really angry guys and I won't

36:16

chat to you and stuff and surly and stuff and then when you get

36:18

to know them a bit more you realise

36:20

they're actually maybe

36:23

single and really want a girlfriend or they're

36:25

scared or they've got problems

36:28

at home or like their mum and dad have

36:30

split off, there's always like something but

36:32

it comes out in this anger in this football

36:34

environment, it's really interesting, I see it a lot

36:37

and yeah, we're

36:40

getting into why the social topic, oh no, I'm actually

36:42

and how do we fix it? Well, fuck those! But

36:45

I think you're absolutely right. Having conversations, yeah. People would rather be

36:48

angry than vulnerable. Yeah, having conversations. Yeah,

36:50

I think being open about those things, I

36:52

mean it's hard like to be open about your

36:54

emotions sometimes but I think you're right, I think anger

36:57

is a very, we're

37:00

very quick to go to that one first, aren't

37:02

we before the other ones and

37:04

it is maybe like you say more easy to

37:07

go there.

37:07

Also I think social media and

37:10

marketing and stuff actively does encourage

37:12

us to be angry about

37:15

things like, yeah,

37:18

that's, it's a way to get us to buy

37:20

things, do things, use social

37:22

media more. Yeah, what are we missing

37:24

out on? Yeah, exactly. That kind of stuff.

37:27

Yeah, we feel a lack so that we go

37:29

and buy things and go and do

37:31

things to give them more money.

37:33

So yeah, it's in their very first place. Go on vintage.

37:36

Yes, exactly. I'm angry, I've got shit clothes,

37:38

let me go on instant. Exactly, I'm

37:41

angry my clothes don't fit me because I got a dad bod

37:43

so I go and buy this oversized night jacket which

37:45

I fucking love, I love this jacket. Yeah,

37:48

I completely, emotion is a strong

37:51

driver for

37:52

certainly marketing but you know newspapers do

37:54

it all the time using fear

37:56

and anger to get people to, I mean politics

37:59

is, Again,

38:00

I don't want to get down that room. Sorry, but like it is

38:02

a strong you can tap into

38:04

people's emotions You can almost

38:06

make them do anything Well, it comes down to that thing

38:09

that how it's making us feel like things are unfair

38:11

like you're being hard done by Or

38:14

you don't have enough and someone

38:16

else has got some things conflict

38:22

Anyway So

38:31

you you were you're from Yorkshire originally,

38:34

yeah Are

38:37

you beautiful part of the country Yeah,

38:41

I my in-laws lived in workshop

38:44

for a while, which is South Yeah,

38:48

I think it's South Yorkshire and

38:51

then shut they did Shire Oaks as well, but anyway

38:54

Yeah, very nice part of the world. But yeah,

38:56

tell us about growing up there and Have

38:59

you always been wanting to do performing

39:02

and like acting and you

39:04

know, obviously the comedies come along as well So it's

39:06

yeah Wikipedia

39:09

page kind of thing So,

39:15

um, I grew up in Yorkshire

39:17

a little town kind

39:20

of between sort of leads and

39:23

Harrogate it's

39:25

just like normal sort of existence,

39:27

but Yeah,

39:30

I

39:31

My first sort of thing with performing

39:33

was my my brother older brother.

39:35

He was Quite shy growing

39:38

up. So my mom was like

39:39

let's take him to a drama class, you know

39:41

get him out of his shell and We

39:44

went and my mom obviously

39:46

made me go with him to just like help him

39:49

with his confidence and we came out My

39:51

brother was like

39:52

never ever take me there ever

39:58

And I was like, when are we going again?

39:59

Oh my God, I loved it. He

40:03

only had to go for like two more times

40:05

before Mum was like, OK, you don't have to

40:07

go over again. But I

40:09

continue to go. I used to do like musical

40:12

theatre and

40:13

stuff like that growing up and loved

40:16

all that. And

40:18

then, yeah, I was always just involved

40:21

in stuff like that. I went to uni, drama

40:24

school

40:26

and pursuing acting

40:29

and just in all those forms, made

40:32

my own short film. I've made quite a lot

40:34

of my own work over the years, but the

40:36

reason I kind of got into comedy

40:39

was kind of.

40:41

From, I guess, things

40:43

not going my way and thinking,

40:46

how should I how can I maneuver this? Because

40:48

I did get dropped by my agent

40:50

after a little while, because it just wasn't.

40:56

Yeah, it just wasn't a right fit or whatever.

40:59

And I was going through some health stuff. So I was like,

41:02

OK, I haven't got an agent. What am I going to do?

41:05

What do I want to do? And I was like, well, I've

41:07

always really wanted to do comedy acting.

41:10

So how can I actually make that sort

41:12

of happen?

41:14

So yeah,

41:16

just sort of saw this like

41:18

random gig post saying,

41:20

oh, we really need an act for tonight. Who's being

41:23

female? So I was like, all

41:25

right. So I just said, I'll do it, wrote some jokes

41:27

and performed them that night. And then that

41:30

just kind of started everything

41:33

and posting sketches online and stuff

41:36

and then met Kat. And then

41:38

we've just done loads of stuff together. And

41:40

yeah,

41:41

I'm

41:42

really shocked at what we've

41:44

achieved together, because like when we

41:46

connected, had absolutely no idea

41:48

that we would,

41:49

you know, even work together. I thought it was just

41:52

like we just had the same name or something.

41:56

But yeah, we've achieved quite a lot and

41:59

we've been sort of.

41:59

performing together for like four

42:01

or five years now. So yeah,

42:05

do you, what else are the Wikipedia that

42:08

was just an overview? Yeah, that's

42:10

great. I was gonna say it's interesting sometimes,

42:12

you know, like, like the moment where you

42:14

kind of use part ways with your agent, you'll be

42:16

thinking, and I've had similar things where

42:18

I've worked with different agents and through

42:21

in literature like book agents and

42:24

it's not quite been the right chemistry

42:27

or something and you kind of part ways and

42:29

then you think like you're the world's over you

42:31

think oh god I'm never gonna make it anymore.

42:34

But often that is kind of

42:36

the spur on to like the next stage

42:38

isn't it like make

42:39

you know better things come along but

42:41

at the time it's always really tough when

42:43

you're in that moment. I mean I still kind

42:46

of I'm in that place because I still haven't found

42:48

like that that agent that you know to

42:50

build a long-term relationship and you do

42:52

sort of think oh my god am I a failure am I

42:54

literally deluding myself like am I going

42:57

nowhere but sometimes those

42:59

things they do make you do other things because like

43:01

I might not have ever pursued

43:03

comedy because yeah a lot

43:05

of the stuff a lot of the sort

43:08

of parts that I was going for were very

43:10

like regal like

43:12

you know like middle-class sorts of roles

43:14

and maybe if I had have got those roles

43:17

I might have been like oh would it be a bit weird

43:19

me doing stand-up would

43:21

should I just not do that you know and

43:23

then this is like more me like this is like

43:26

building in like my childhood my

43:29

like sense of humor growing up and stuff I'm

43:31

able to communicate that because I

43:33

do this now so I

43:35

might not have had that sort of creative outlet

43:37

if I'd have got all of those things that I

43:40

thought I wanted at the time. Well

43:42

you you're able to be your authentic

43:44

self which is a gift. All

43:46

we want to do really when we're creating stuff

43:48

isn't it? Like we all want to put a bit of ourselves

43:50

in now and we do because that's in

43:53

heaven with being creative you do put a lot

43:55

of yourself in it but

43:56

if you're kind of stifling that

43:58

somewhere it's not quite right. Like

44:01

you say, you probably end up doing stuff that you

44:03

weren't comfortable with or that you start to get

44:05

pigeonholed or whatever it might be, I

44:07

guess.

44:07

Or you're not even that good at. You

44:10

wanna feel like you're doing the best you

44:12

can do and you're doing something that no one else

44:14

can bring to it.

44:16

Not you're doing something and actually someone

44:18

else could act it better because you're not really like

44:20

that in real

44:21

life. And stuff that lights you up.

44:23

Yeah, that makes you feel excited because

44:25

this job, well, just being in the

44:28

creative pursuit in general is just so

44:31

hard. Like if you're not feeling like

44:33

alive about it and like

44:35

excited, there really is no

44:37

point doing it at all. Oh, it's the worst.

44:39

Yeah. I completely agree. I

44:42

could not agree more. And yeah,

44:44

I like you. I do a lot of like online content

44:46

and sketches and stuff. And I

44:48

genuinely get really excited about making

44:50

them. If I had a little idea and then I'm editing

44:52

it, it's coming together, I think, oh, it's a

44:54

both mean hit, it's a buzz. And then if

44:57

it goes online, it does well, or it doesn't really

44:59

matter. And that's another sort of trying

45:01

to get your head around

45:03

how numbers don't really matter, but like just

45:06

doing it, just being excited about it. And then if

45:08

even one person comments, it's like, oh, this is good.

45:11

It sort of just, it lights you

45:13

up as a really good phrase actually, Charles. And I think that's just,

45:15

it's important to sort of

45:17

keep on that because you're right, this industry

45:19

can be, it can really, it can

45:22

be a slog. It can be wonderful, but it can

45:25

feel like sort of wading through caramel

45:27

quite a lot. And

45:29

keeping those things that do light you up. Or

45:31

trickle. Or quick sand. Yeah.

45:35

Or quick sand, whatever your tip is. I

45:38

think keeping things

45:40

that light you up as well for you. I

45:42

mean, you know, you put them out there for other people, but

45:45

it's for you as well. I think

45:47

it's really important mentally

45:50

to keep you in that space. But also,

45:52

we were bashing

45:54

social media earlier for all the right, you know, for legitimate

45:57

reasons. But these platforms

45:59

are. for us to then get our ideas out there and be seen

46:02

as well. So it's not like, you know, if

46:04

it was like 1999, I guess, put

46:07

it on MySpace. I don't think MySpace is even

46:09

there there, mate. It's like the 2000s.

46:11

Yeah. So what would you, you know, you'd have to

46:14

send them to VCR, to TV

46:16

production companies

46:17

or something. That's my thinking

46:19

of that, like. I know. Taking

46:21

a tape and being like, please can you give this to

46:23

the boss? Yeah.

46:25

We called it on a camcorder as well.

46:28

Like you'd have to have a camcorder. But now we know that

46:30

producers and execs are looking at online and

46:32

looking at stuff. So it's, you know, you never

46:34

really know. But if you're, if you're

46:36

feeling

46:37

making yourself like, light yourself up, I really

46:39

love that, about the stuff that you're doing. I

46:42

mean, that's just, I think

46:45

that's where it needs to come from first. Yeah, definitely.

46:47

You always make stuff for yourself first. And

46:50

I always say that to people when you know, I

46:52

don't

46:53

know about you, but I get

46:55

like messages from people saying, I'm going to write

46:57

a book or I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. Like what

47:00

publishers blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, but.

47:03

What's it about? What is it about? What you doing

47:05

it for? What, you know, like, it's

47:07

great if you've got an end goal, but

47:10

you haven't even written it yet. So, you

47:12

know, it's like that kind of thing. Like, I think it's really

47:14

important to, to do whatever

47:16

you create as a creative, whether

47:18

it's doing stand up comedy or writing

47:20

or music, wherever it might be. Always. I think

47:23

it's really important to always make it for yourself first.

47:25

Do something that you love. I

47:28

don't know. Just

47:31

eight agents. I just, um,

47:34

wankers. I'm

47:37

sure there's some nice ones. I'm sure there's some nice ones. There

47:40

probably are. Um, it's, it's

47:42

a funny thing because you're always told like, God

47:44

have an agent, God have an agent and all this kind of stuff. And I know plenty

47:47

of standups on the circuit who don't have agents who

47:49

just manage their own life diary and doing absolutely, absolutely

47:51

fine.

47:52

And I always thought when I first got

47:54

an agent, oh, they're going to be like my best

47:56

mate. We're going to chat every day. That's going to be great.

47:59

my sounding board. You just don't, you don't

48:02

hear from them. Like it is a, it is a

48:04

very, you're sold an image, I

48:06

think the TV and film of what it's

48:08

like to have an agent and it is actually

48:10

very different. And I'm

48:13

sure some agents are different than others, but a lot of the time

48:15

they're there when you need

48:17

them. They'll send you that self tape info,

48:20

but like you might not hear from them. They're there when

48:22

the contracts are coming through. Or

48:25

as I had recently, I got something and then I

48:27

was like, I need to send this to my agent. I've done

48:29

this all myself, but if I don't

48:31

and something goes wrong down

48:34

the line, it'd be more awkward. They're like 50% classic. Yeah.

48:38

Sorry, I'm

48:41

being very harsh about agents. They are, they do have

48:43

a, you know, I've got a great lit agent and she's

48:45

fantastic and wonderful, but yeah, I get, I get what

48:47

you're saying, Jim.

48:49

It's not everything, it's not everything, but also it's,

48:51

it's just not how it's perceived.

48:54

It's a different relationship sometimes. I just,

48:56

I don't know. I just, no one really talks about that, but

48:58

it is sometimes

49:01

just not what you see in TV. I

49:03

mean, I see plenty of like people

49:06

who have agents who say, yeah, I haven't had a casting

49:09

for three years. So it doesn't necessarily

49:11

mean that you're going to get like

49:14

this massive part. Like you could literally,

49:16

it's almost like if

49:18

you've got an agent who literally never acknowledges

49:21

your existence, that's almost worse than

49:23

not having one because you feel like you can't actually

49:26

do anything yourself because you might like rub them up the

49:28

wrong way or whatever, which is why

49:30

I kind of went on my own in the first place. Cause I

49:32

was like,

49:33

I'm not actually getting the casting. So

49:35

I might as well just not bother

49:37

and just have the freedom of being able to just

49:39

make all my own decisions and

49:42

do whatever I want. Have some autonomy

49:44

on it. Yeah, I think. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

49:47

Yeah. I've been in situations where I've had, um, I

49:50

had an agent once who took me on and

49:52

I thought, and they were quite big agents here. I thought,

49:54

Oh, amazing. You know, this is going to be like,

49:56

I'm going to break through and be like the biggest

49:59

author in the world.

49:59

and then literally

50:02

didn't hear from them for about a year. And

50:05

realized that, of course, they were

50:07

a big agency and they had loads of big clients.

50:10

I was just this tiny little, you

50:12

know, sprat

50:14

in a kind of ocean of whales.

50:17

And yeah, I was like

50:19

kind of never gonna get any kind

50:21

of credence or

50:23

like

50:24

attention, I guess. And I

50:26

think that's, it's a big thing. And I think you're right, Jim. Finding

50:29

the right personalities with people as well is

50:31

important.

50:33

Can I also say that work stops in Nottinghamshire?

50:36

Is it? Well, actually- So it's

50:38

not Yorkshire. According to

50:40

Wikipedia. But it's right on the border. It's

50:43

like 15 miles south of Sheffield. Okay, I

50:45

will know. It's near Sheffield. I was always under the impression

50:47

that it was in Yorkshire. So it's really close to the

50:49

border. Sheffield is Yorkshire. Yeah.

50:53

Yeah. But Nottinghamshire. It's

50:55

good that you spent months at the point of going, it's

50:57

not a good thing. Well,

51:00

they're in Shirots as well, but that is definitely

51:03

in Yorkshire. Shirots,

51:06

you know what's really strange about you saying Shirots,

51:08

my mum went to Shirots

51:10

primary school.

51:12

Oh. That's a bit of a mad link, that. It

51:15

is a small world. Yeah. That

51:18

is mad. Can I talk

51:20

about partnerships? Cause we talk a lot about

51:23

collaboration on this podcast. And obviously you

51:25

and Kat are fantastic together. And

51:27

as you were saying earlier, sliding doors, sliding

51:30

doors moments. You know, if you hadn't

51:32

done, moved into comedy in my door of meta

51:34

and stuff, but because

51:36

I have a comedy partner as well, I do stuff with Dave and

51:39

I remember he is an actor and

51:42

I saw him in Shakespeare

51:44

in the park with my wife, who I was

51:46

dating at the time. I remember I think he was playing, it

51:49

was mid-summonized dream, he was playing bottom. And

51:51

I was like, oh my God, that guy's hilarious. I want him to be my friend.

51:53

And then I basically went on like a two year campaign

51:55

to make him my friend, wore him down, it

51:58

worked.

51:59

But what. When you first met Kat did you sort

52:01

of feel that connection then? Like I think

52:04

this could be a mate for life kind of thing. I'm always interested

52:06

in

52:07

those sort of collaborations starting. That's a

52:09

really beautiful origin story you got there.

52:11

Like I wish ours was like that. I

52:14

wish she'd chased me down for two years.

52:15

Yeah it's like love at first sight. Like

52:18

yeah a bit of stalkery but I like

52:20

it. Love at first bottom. Yeah

52:23

but I was always asked Miranda, what was Dave

52:26

there? Can you hide a date from me? Are

52:28

you dating me or Dave at this current moment? Oh

52:31

yeah it worked.

52:32

Well when we

52:34

met it was just like I wanted

52:37

to do a like a female

52:39

stand-up thing.

52:40

Like you know at a festival or something.

52:43

So I just put a little breakdown out and then

52:45

somebody commented and tagged

52:47

Kat in it. It

52:49

said Katarina Robinson. I was like

52:53

Kat Robinson, Kat Ronson.

52:55

I was like this is weird. Also

52:58

my entire life whenever I rang someone

53:00

else and like said my name on the phone, they've always gone

53:02

Robinson and I'm like no Ronson. So

53:06

I thought that's just weird. We

53:10

ended up doing the little thing together

53:12

but

53:13

when we became really good friends was when

53:15

she came to like see me do

53:17

poetry and she was like

53:20

that's not really Kat's thing but she was

53:22

like okay. Then I told

53:24

this joke, she likes to say

53:26

she told her poem about her plits. She

53:31

was like yeah that's my kind of girl. Kat's

53:35

just like complete opposite of me. She's super

53:38

healthy, goes to the gym all the time,

53:40

doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, like all of this.

53:43

Complete opposite of me. So I was wondering

53:45

whether we would

53:46

get on but we're really the best of

53:48

friends. And

53:50

the best thing about it is we just get

53:53

things done. There's so many

53:55

people that you would love to work with and

53:57

you love their ideas, you love their talent.

53:59

but they don't get things done. Things

54:02

will just never happen. You'll be doing

54:04

it for three years, whereas we've

54:07

worked together for four years, but we've got

54:09

so many projects out. We just get

54:11

things out and just

54:13

get on with it. And that's the thing

54:15

that is just so good, is we're both on the same

54:18

page with that. We wanna just

54:20

get things done. We

54:22

will put the time aside and we'll

54:24

be committed to it.

54:26

That's the best thing, really.

54:30

Yeah, and there's something beautiful about collaboration,

54:32

anyway, I think. Yeah,

54:34

it is, because also in the creative

54:36

industry, it's just nice to know you're not alone

54:39

and you've got a little teammate. You

54:42

just need someone where, I

54:45

think, I don't know about you, but every

54:47

couple of months I'll have a breakdown where I'm like, I'm quitting.

54:50

I'm quitting.

54:51

Every day. Every day. Yeah, well,

54:53

no, I said two months. It is every

54:55

week, yeah. But

54:58

then you just give, when you've got a little

55:00

band, we call it the girl band, like

55:02

we're in the girl band. So you've

55:04

got your band mates to be like, this is shit.

55:07

And they're like, yeah, it is shit. And then you just move

55:09

on and you get on with it.

55:10

Yeah, we win it together. Like

55:12

that's the thing, isn't it? That camaraderie

55:15

and shared experience as well.

55:18

Exactly. And

55:21

yeah, having someone to share

55:23

that memory with when you perform like a big space

55:25

and you did it with someone, it's

55:28

quite special. What were those

55:30

first gigs like though together? The

55:33

first gigs. Seems so

55:35

funny. Like when

55:38

you're so nervous, like when you first start stand

55:40

up comedy and it just feels like alien, like

55:42

all these people staring at you. First

55:45

few gigs, obviously are like really

55:47

nerve

55:48

wracking, but we didn't do

55:50

like stand up together. We'd like do

55:52

different sets or whatever. But

55:55

the first sorts of shows

55:57

when we were together and we started like.

55:59

selling them out. We were both

56:02

shocked and just

56:04

excited. But

56:06

yeah, it's always nice when like something you

56:08

do actually goes well and people

56:11

actually really connect with it. And we've

56:13

done loads of different projects over the years

56:16

and yeah, just looking

56:18

forward to what what else we do.

56:20

Who knows? So when you're

56:23

working on stuff, do you, is

56:25

it one of you comes up with an idea? Do you collaborate

56:28

together? Like, and

56:29

you know, how does it work with regards to like,

56:32

coming up with your material,

56:34

I guess. Yeah, I mean,

56:36

it just kind of happens organically.

56:38

I mean, sometimes one of us will start

56:40

the idea and then the other or the other

56:43

will with lads.

56:46

That kind of came from a character

56:48

that I kind of started this character

56:50

called Dave, like this grumpy

56:53

teenager guy. And then during

56:55

lockdown, we were like, voice noting

56:57

each other back and forth. And then out

57:00

of that, Kat kind of came up

57:02

with this weird guy called Charlie,

57:04

and we were just both voice noting each other back and

57:06

forth as these characters. And then it just kind

57:08

of like went from there.

57:10

So sometimes it'll just be like one idea

57:12

or like a

57:13

phrase that we thought of that would be

57:15

funny. And then it just kind of like builds

57:18

on there. It is a bit weird how it kind

57:20

of comes together, but it just seems to work.

57:23

That's the chemistry, I guess. I love the idea

57:25

of the fact that you might have like a WhatsApp

57:28

correspondence as your characters. That's

57:30

just entirely of them. Yeah,

57:33

we were like just going back and forth with all

57:35

these random ideas and then it just

57:38

became a series out of nowhere. But

57:40

yeah, it just just kind of happens organically.

57:42

We'll just bounce off each other. But it's

57:45

quite a beautiful thing, actually. Yeah,

57:48

I was going to say that it is a beautiful thing. And like

57:50

and anyone that maybe doesn't

57:52

work in this space or maybe hasn't collaborated, it's

57:54

really hard to describe that feeling

57:57

of when someone else gets.

57:59

you and your idea

58:02

and they can see it. Because what you

58:04

guys are like when I'm creating things, I can like see

58:06

in my mind what I want it to be like. And

58:08

then when you're working with someone and they

58:10

see it as well, that is an amazing

58:13

feeling that someone's like looking

58:15

at the same movie screen

58:18

as you are. And that's just it's just a really nice,

58:20

you know, humans are social

58:22

beings who like connecting when you're connecting on that level

58:26

creatively, because you're being vulnerable, putting

58:28

your thing out there, being vulnerable and then it comes together

58:30

and makes a collaboration. Yeah. It's just

58:32

a really nice feeling inside. And

58:34

I guess it's like a that it's actually

58:36

a massive level of respect as well, because

58:39

you're able to be so vulnerable with

58:41

your ideas, like that you can say anything

58:43

to them. Like I could say something to Kat that I

58:45

think is absolutely weird and

58:48

she's never going to judge me for it. She's she

58:50

might go that shit and move on. But

58:53

like, I'm never going to feel like, oh,

58:55

maybe I shouldn't say this or like maybe she's

58:57

going to judge me or laugh at me or something. Like

59:00

it's a totally safe space.

59:02

And that's where you can do your best work when you are

59:04

totally

59:04

safe with someone. Completely

59:07

agree. Yeah. Yeah. Having that trust in

59:09

one another, I think, like you say, just to be as

59:11

completely open as possible. And then you just

59:13

don't know what

59:14

that will bring. Like the possibility. Yeah. The possibilities

59:17

are endless and that's exciting.

59:19

Like there's no like end

59:22

point where you have to close it off. Like

59:24

who knows where it'll go?

59:26

That's that's the feeling

59:28

that keeps me being free

59:30

being freelance because I think about

59:33

getting a full time job literally every

59:35

single day. But

59:37

the I took my therapist

59:39

about this yesterday. She was like, I've

59:41

been seeing that for like seven years. And she's like, you're always talking

59:43

about a full time job, but you haven't. Why

59:46

haven't you? I was like, oh, yeah, I

59:48

have literally been talking about it for seven, seven years

59:50

and I still haven't. So I must deep

59:52

down want to stay being freelance and being

59:55

creative. And

59:58

it's just I think it's that. It's

1:00:01

the what if. If I was in a full time job, I'd be

1:00:03

like, okay, that's me for the next three years, four years, five years,

1:00:05

whatever. Well, I've never actually done a job

1:00:07

longer than two years in my entire life. Apart

1:00:09

from this one, the three last one.

1:00:11

Apart from this one, actually, yeah. This is my longest job, yeah.

1:00:13

This is the longest I've ever had. My God, nearly five years.

1:00:16

But it's the opportunity, it's the what

1:00:18

if.

1:00:19

If you stay with that door open, you

1:00:24

don't know what's gonna happen. That's really exciting. Yes, it's terrifying

1:00:27

as well. But it

1:00:29

could be great. And I think that's the thing that keeps me

1:00:32

on this. The carrot on the stick. To

1:00:34

keep you enthused, what could

1:00:36

happen?

1:00:37

That's the same with me, actually. It's the what

1:00:39

could happen that keeps you going.

1:00:42

Yeah, if I knew what I was doing absolutely every

1:00:44

single day, that's terrifying

1:00:47

to me. That thought. I

1:00:50

don't know about you guys, but I, when

1:00:54

I'm at the point where I'm thinking, I haven't enough of this,

1:00:57

something, the universe,

1:01:00

those hippie bastards keep going on about. The

1:01:03

universe will speak to you. The

1:01:06

universe suddenly sends me something

1:01:08

tantalizing, like a new project

1:01:11

or a new idea. Could be just

1:01:13

a new idea. And then you're back in

1:01:15

again. You're like, ah, okay.

1:01:17

So I'm in this for another six months or whatever.

1:01:20

You never quite escape. Because

1:01:22

you like, so I think, and

1:01:24

I think there's that. And I think the other thing is,

1:01:26

Jim, and I don't know if I'm around

1:01:29

the same, but Michelle's was like, you're gonna

1:01:31

be my wife. It's like, you'll be so miserable.

1:01:33

You'll be far more miserable

1:01:35

if you were doing a regular kind of regular, in

1:01:38

fact. And there's nothing wrong with people doing regular jobs, but

1:01:40

like doing regular work,

1:01:42

as an employee somewhere.

1:01:45

And you'd still be thinking about all this stuff. Exactly.

1:01:49

But you'd be kind of trapped in something. And then,

1:01:51

you know, so

1:01:54

I think that's another thing I always think

1:01:56

about is actually how, would I be happy?

1:01:58

I don't think I would. Well,

1:02:01

because at least there's a chance of it happening. Exactly.

1:02:04

It might not happen, but there's a chance.

1:02:07

Yeah, hope's a wonderful thing. Yeah,

1:02:12

I think, yeah, thank you. There's a lot

1:02:14

of truth in that. And

1:02:18

the universe thing, I think

1:02:22

there's truth in that too. But

1:02:25

it's like staying open to it.

1:02:28

I think, again, I'm

1:02:30

getting a bit sort of spiritualistic and stuff here, but

1:02:32

like, not

1:02:34

that I am. Am I spiritually? I

1:02:37

am a little bit. I don't know if I am,

1:02:39

maybe I am. Because I do think about

1:02:41

this stuff quite a lot. Spiritual in what

1:02:43

way? I think if you're open to it

1:02:46

in some sense, you are spiritual because

1:02:48

a lot of people, they won't even allow

1:02:50

themselves to even accept

1:02:53

that there's energies

1:02:55

and auras and stuff. So I think you are a bit just

1:02:57

in the fact that you're.

1:02:59

I definitely believe in energies. I

1:03:01

don't know about you. Yeah, energies and stuff. I

1:03:03

think I do. We've talked about

1:03:05

this before, Jim, I think about it. And if

1:03:07

there's a curiosity, I

1:03:09

guess, then that in itself is you being open

1:03:12

to possibility. And I think as well,

1:03:14

none of us know everything. Like literally

1:03:17

not one person on the planet knows everything. So

1:03:19

you

1:03:20

might as well keep your mind open a little bit to what

1:03:22

possible, have your boundaries. Everyone has their

1:03:24

boundaries, understandably. But

1:03:27

yeah, I think I completely

1:03:29

believe energies. And

1:03:32

you can feel your own sometimes. I'm getting really deep on it. You

1:03:35

can feel your own sometimes. I can feel when I've

1:03:37

when I'm putting out

1:03:39

a positive energy or when I'm putting out a

1:03:41

negative one. I definitely feel it in my bones.

1:03:43

Like when I'm being great to be around when I'm being

1:03:46

fucking horrendous to be around. So when you were on your

1:03:48

drive this morning, that was bad energy.

1:03:50

But now in

1:03:52

this lovely conversation, then it turned bad. Yeah,

1:03:54

this is this is lifted my head. Yeah,

1:03:59

it wasn't great. energy but then I then I dropped off

1:04:01

at the nursery I get a kiss and

1:04:03

a cuddle at the front door and then actually to be honest

1:04:05

that that normally

1:04:08

solves everything although we were very

1:04:10

late so I had to write oh I had to write

1:04:12

in there there's a receptionist

1:04:14

makes our son the late book and there's always a reason

1:04:17

for lateness you have to put like why you were late and

1:04:19

actually loads of people were late today because of the

1:04:21

traffic

1:04:22

and I've decided literally this morning that

1:04:25

I'm gonna start putting fun

1:04:27

made-up reasons why we were late just

1:04:29

as a little like thing to make me feel happy so

1:04:31

instead of putting traffic I just put life and

1:04:33

I and in my head I hope that like

1:04:36

the receptionist will open that and have a chuckle one

1:04:38

day. You could have put those motherfucking drivers. No,

1:04:41

then again the boundaries but like I

1:04:44

just think of so I'm actually quite excited to be late

1:04:46

next week so I can put a fun way. It's gonna be late

1:04:48

on purpose. But it's

1:04:50

like it's keeping these things for yourself. Yeah,

1:04:55

keeping the little little people to

1:04:57

make you laugh. You said you're a bit spiritual.

1:04:59

Are you a manifester? Well

1:05:04

I mean I try I try but you

1:05:08

know what sometimes like I feel

1:05:10

feel like sometimes I forget

1:05:12

the things that I want I'm like I'm trying to manifest

1:05:14

all these things but I can't remember what they all

1:05:17

are and then but like

1:05:20

yeah I do like

1:05:22

I want to manifest I do have a few spiritual

1:05:25

books that I've gone through over

1:05:27

the years I

1:05:30

think I do manifest like there's quite a lot

1:05:32

of

1:05:33

ideas of like you know gratitude

1:05:35

that's a massive one with manifesting and I do really

1:05:38

try and do that because

1:05:41

just because it just makes you feel better in

1:05:43

your life in general

1:05:45

and like

1:05:47

affirmations have you

1:05:50

heard about them? Yeah, I am worthy.

1:05:53

I'm worthy of abundance and all of that.

1:05:55

So I like those but they're just I think

1:05:57

good just for general mental health and

1:05:59

stuff.

1:05:59

Yeah, and if they help you manifest

1:06:02

stuff great But

1:06:04

yeah, I mean

1:06:05

being a Yorkshire woman like sometimes I

1:06:07

read the stuff and I'm like

1:06:12

But

1:06:14

I do think I'm a lot better I am I

1:06:16

am open-minded I do believe in all like,

1:06:19

you know energies and

1:06:21

And manifesting and the energy

1:06:23

of the universe. I just don't know if I was like fully cracked

1:06:25

it Yeah, but I'm I

1:06:27

believe in it. Yeah.

1:06:28

Yeah, there's a kind of all that laws of attraction

1:06:30

stuff as well You know, like you know, yeah

1:06:32

what you and again like what energies you put out

1:06:34

you get back and yeah I think yeah,

1:06:37

but

1:06:37

also I do think there's

1:06:39

like little loopholes because I

1:06:41

know a lot of people who have very

1:06:44

bad energy Who've

1:06:45

been very nasty to people who have

1:06:48

got very far in life. Yeah Where

1:06:52

it falls down a little Yeah

1:06:56

Um, so I think that's a

1:06:58

thing but I think do you know what I think it more

1:07:01

more is right? It's feeling you're

1:07:03

you're deserving of it

1:07:05

And and whether that's you treat people like

1:07:08

shit you feel you're deserving of

1:07:10

it. You're still gonna get it Do

1:07:11

you know me? Whereas like I think with

1:07:14

like because I'm from like

1:07:16

a working class background and stuff I think one

1:07:18

of my biggest obstacles is not feeling

1:07:20

like

1:07:22

Good enough for that or like

1:07:24

it's ever gonna happen to me because I come from a

1:07:26

small town and things like that Don't happen to

1:07:28

me and and all of that internalized

1:07:31

stuff that is subconscious that

1:07:33

that is from childhood That's

1:07:36

the I think the biggest like The

1:07:39

biggest one is feeling deserving and

1:07:41

that helps you attract it Yeah

1:07:44

Which is the difficult one to feel when you've

1:07:47

been told your whole life that you're not or something

1:07:49

like that That's so true. It's something

1:07:51

i've been absolutely um thinking about

1:07:53

a lot in um in

1:07:55

recent weeks and months, um kind

1:07:59

of investigating getting kind of new diversity

1:08:02

within myself and thinking about like,

1:08:05

yeah, all that feelings like going back and

1:08:07

reflecting and thinking, I've always felt

1:08:10

like not good enough as a kid or different and all

1:08:12

those kinds of things. And then coming to the reality

1:08:14

now of like

1:08:15

trying to be more accepting of who I am and all

1:08:17

that kind of stuff. And then, you

1:08:20

know, conversely like looking at what

1:08:22

do I deserve creatively

1:08:25

or in life and all those kinds of things as well,

1:08:27

which is really, it's quite difficult

1:08:29

actually. Yeah, it is. Because

1:08:32

then, because

1:08:32

like,

1:08:34

if you listen to the voice in your head, like sometimes

1:08:37

I'm like, what is this saying? Like, this

1:08:39

is crazy. It's going shit, shit, shit.

1:08:42

I'm like, how has this happened?

1:08:45

But yeah, it's mad. If you don't check it

1:08:47

out, like,

1:08:48

you can go along like telling yourself

1:08:50

all sorts of weird,

1:08:52

weird shit all the time. And then you're like, why am I in

1:08:54

a bad mood? Oh, it might be the fact that I've just

1:08:56

spent 12 hours saying what piece

1:08:58

of shit I have to myself. That

1:09:01

might be why. But what,

1:09:03

you're a

1:09:05

diversity because I'm, you're

1:09:07

a diverse as well. Oh yeah. Well, welcome

1:09:09

to the club. ADHD for me. But

1:09:13

which is, yeah, yeah. But I

1:09:15

mean, it's a, I've known, I've always known

1:09:17

my whole life kind of like I've had it, but

1:09:19

never, but never wanted to be assessed or

1:09:22

like just kind of like, you know, kind

1:09:24

of jokey about it like, Oh yeah,

1:09:26

you know, that's just my ADHD. I'm time blind. I'm

1:09:28

not this, you know, Oh, I'm quite sensitive. But

1:09:32

I've got a hundred tabs open my brain. Like, you know, Oh,

1:09:34

there's Charles. He's like, kind of like, he's all over the place.

1:09:36

Um, that kind of stuff. And it's

1:09:38

all kind of that.

1:09:39

But I think having kind of discovered

1:09:42

that there's a link between that and like mental

1:09:44

health issues, things like that, anxiety and all those kind

1:09:46

of going more into that stuff and thinking,

1:09:49

actually, maybe I do need to really work

1:09:51

on this side

1:09:52

of my life, this kind

1:09:54

of, you know, being more accepting

1:09:57

of my neurodiversity and what the implications

1:09:59

of it. Yeah, like not just pretending

1:10:02

that it's not a problem or like it has an effect.

1:10:05

That's what I've had to do like because

1:10:07

I'm dyspraxic dyslexic

1:10:10

and epileptic trickle threat from

1:10:13

the NHS. But

1:10:15

I yeah, I kind of went through a lot

1:10:18

of time like kind of pretending that

1:10:20

it hadn't affected me and like, you

1:10:22

know, that I didn't need any help

1:10:25

or whatever because I

1:10:27

mean, there wasn't really any help. So I just

1:10:30

kind of accepted it and

1:10:31

kind of kidded myself into thinking that there

1:10:34

wasn't any problems or

1:10:36

and that I hadn't really suffered

1:10:39

at all from it. So I

1:10:41

can relate to like, just kind

1:10:43

of mentalizing.

1:10:46

For people who don't know, how does the

1:10:48

dyspraxia sort of show

1:10:50

itself? How does that,

1:10:51

if you can explain it? So,

1:10:53

do

1:10:54

you know what I actually need to research it

1:10:56

more to be fair because I'm

1:10:58

like you, I literally I

1:11:00

haven't really looked into it that much. But one

1:11:03

thing I can't, I struggle to remember

1:11:06

people's faces, which is really quite

1:11:08

bad in my

1:11:10

industry because obviously it's all about networking.

1:11:13

It's like, yeah, it makes it seem

1:11:15

like I don't care and I don't

1:11:17

remember you and I'm really rude or something.

1:11:19

But it's like, it can take me several

1:11:21

times of meeting someone to fully

1:11:24

really know what their face looks like and

1:11:26

picture it in my head. And

1:11:28

so that's a weird one. But

1:11:31

yeah, it's like short term memory,

1:11:34

organizing things, getting times

1:11:37

wrong, like,

1:11:40

just all sorts of things like booking the wrong

1:11:42

plane ticket. One time I booked

1:11:44

a plane ticket a week before

1:11:47

and completely missed

1:11:50

it. Just general things. I think you end

1:11:52

up spending a lot more money just by

1:11:54

having neurodiversity

1:11:56

because the forgetfulness, the missing

1:11:58

things. Yeah, it's kind of a big thing. processing stuff,

1:12:01

I guess, isn't it? Which I guess is a lot of newer

1:12:03

diversities around that. Definitely.

1:12:07

And yeah, I'm not really sure what

1:12:10

else. That's the main things. And

1:12:15

yeah, I mean, more so, I mean, my

1:12:17

epilepsy is more so like kind

1:12:19

of disruptive things, just because that's literally the

1:12:21

physical like,

1:12:22

you're done. If

1:12:26

that was more like disruptive to my life

1:12:28

for a while, just because like, it's so unpredictable.

1:12:31

And

1:12:32

there's nothing really you can do about that.

1:12:37

Whereas dyspraxia

1:12:39

and the dyslexia, I guess that's like, yeah,

1:12:43

it's something that's not

1:12:45

going to like,

1:12:47

cause massive disruption to my day

1:12:50

to day life. It's just like, you know,

1:12:51

like inconvenient things that

1:12:54

are like, please trap of or whatever. Yeah,

1:12:56

but you're still, you know, you say you

1:12:58

talk about spending money, you're spending energy, you're spending

1:13:00

energy and that stuff because it's disruptive.

1:13:03

And it's upsetting because you're like, I've done it again.

1:13:05

I've done it again. Yeah. Well,

1:13:07

that's another thing you just start beating yourself up. Yeah, exactly.

1:13:10

You're taking yourself up and saying like,

1:13:12

I'm an idiot. But it's not your

1:13:14

fault. I mean, this is the thing about

1:13:16

labeling these conditions is

1:13:18

that I think it allows people to let themselves

1:13:21

off the hook a bit. Like you have, there

1:13:23

are reasons that your brain processes information

1:13:27

in a certain way. And I

1:13:29

think the fact now that we

1:13:31

are

1:13:32

talking more about this and labeling

1:13:35

it more, it means it's more help out there. For

1:13:37

example, there are therapists

1:13:40

that specialize in ADHD. There are life

1:13:42

ADHD life coaches. There are people that

1:13:45

can actually help you. But

1:13:48

it feels like society a long time

1:13:51

to get to that kind of place. We're a bit more open about talking

1:13:53

about it. Because I think like, I mean,

1:13:55

we've got us two in particular, like

1:13:58

haven't really felt the need to like,

1:13:59

delve into it too much because

1:14:02

society isn't really

1:14:05

interested in making allowances.

1:14:07

So you think, right, well, I better learn

1:14:10

the neurotypical way of doing things and

1:14:12

try and do that because there aren't

1:14:14

any allowances. I didn't get any extra

1:14:16

time to read at uni.

1:14:19

I didn't get any extra time to do exams

1:14:21

at uni. I got nothing. So I was like,

1:14:23

well, I better just not even pay attention

1:14:26

to this because

1:14:27

I need to just be as good as other

1:14:29

people or else. That's

1:14:31

it. Yeah. And it's funny

1:14:34

enough reflecting on those. I mean, Jim and I

1:14:36

talked about this off air before, but like looking

1:14:38

at our school reports and going back and,

1:14:41

you know, Charles was disruptive. Charles was distracting

1:14:43

everybody else. Charles was doing, you know, Charles

1:14:45

failed all his GCSEs. No surprise there

1:14:48

because he was like probably not even looking at

1:14:50

the paper when he was like, you know, it's

1:14:53

all those things that you start to

1:14:56

work out about yourself and think, oh Christ, this

1:14:58

has been a lifelong thing really.

1:15:00

And I'm only now acknowledging it at the age

1:15:02

of 40 odd. And

1:15:05

so yeah, it's coming to terms with it, I suppose is the

1:15:07

best way of saying it really coming to terms with how

1:15:10

your brain works and like you say, being a bit

1:15:12

kinder to yourself. Yeah.

1:15:15

Being like, I wasn't done all those times

1:15:18

and I just didn't get the support that

1:15:20

I needed. And that's all right. Being like kind

1:15:23

to yourself about it.

1:15:25

It's nice. Exactly. It's that we all

1:15:27

need support. You know, neurotypical

1:15:30

people would have got the support because as you say, society

1:15:32

is set up for, for through

1:15:34

a neurotypical lens and that's, that's obviously

1:15:37

not their fault. That's completely fine. But I'm

1:15:39

hoping now

1:15:41

that for younger neurodiverse

1:15:44

kids, there is more support and their society

1:15:47

is

1:15:48

looking at it through the more lenses

1:15:50

that clearly exist. It's tricky. I mean,

1:15:53

I talked to Michelle about this because she's a teacher and I

1:15:55

think schools, I mean, obviously that comes from

1:15:57

government. It's really hard.

1:15:59

There is a set

1:16:02

way of teaching and stuff. And

1:16:04

although we're able to diagnose children

1:16:07

a bit earlier

1:16:09

with various different neurodiversities, it's

1:16:12

still a one size fits all with regards

1:16:14

to learning. So

1:16:16

you might get a little bit more support in certain areas

1:16:18

but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're

1:16:20

gonna flourish necessarily, which is really,

1:16:24

we should just be like letting everyone learn

1:16:26

in their own way, but that's never gonna

1:16:28

happen in this country. Back

1:16:30

up to our reason. Yeah. Well,

1:16:35

we can't even get a school meal. I

1:16:37

mean, I don't think we're gonna get a

1:16:39

reformed education

1:16:42

system if we can't even get a free school meal. Yeah.

1:16:49

I was about to say, thanks for coming on, but

1:16:51

that's what we've ended on a real time. Oh yeah,

1:16:53

like, should we have a

1:16:55

nice, nice last question. Yeah,

1:16:58

come on. What's your

1:17:00

favorite color? Are

1:17:05

you gonna be doing some, cause you've done some solo

1:17:08

stuff, haven't you as well? Right, stand

1:17:10

up. Yes,

1:17:11

no, I mean, I perform solo

1:17:13

like all the time. I mean, it's been a bit difficult,

1:17:15

like living in the

1:17:17

depths of Yorkshire, but I'm moving to Manchester

1:17:20

tomorrow.

1:17:20

Are you? Oh, nice.

1:17:23

So I'm gonna get my Northern gig on and

1:17:25

get focused on that as well. But yeah,

1:17:28

perform on my own all the time. And

1:17:30

then I think me and Kat are probably gonna do a split

1:17:32

bill later in the year, which

1:17:35

will be exciting.

1:17:37

And yeah,

1:17:39

just doing our podcast,

1:17:41

developing that. We have

1:17:43

been developing lads for a little

1:17:46

while and pitching that to places. So

1:17:48

there's a lot of behind the scenes things,

1:17:50

I think with

1:17:51

creative is like 90% of it is

1:17:54

just like talking about things and things

1:17:56

not really materializing. And then 10% of it

1:17:59

you can.

1:17:59

put on social media. So

1:18:02

you think like you think oh I'm not doing

1:18:04

anything but actually we've been pitching

1:18:06

like lads for like two years and stuff and

1:18:08

a lot goes into things like that that you don't

1:18:11

see so sometimes I'm like

1:18:13

what are we actually doing but you

1:18:15

know the shows are only a small amount of it

1:18:18

so. It's

1:18:20

like an iceberg isn't it? Yeah exactly. What

1:18:22

you can put on social media is a tip of the iceberg.

1:18:24

There is a lot going on. A lot

1:18:27

of emails, a lot of meetings,

1:18:29

a lot of admin goes into being a

1:18:31

creative. And I think also

1:18:33

it's good to keep that in mind when you're looking and

1:18:35

you're comparing everybody else what everyone else

1:18:37

is doing because you think like oh everyone's doing

1:18:39

so well. They're

1:18:42

like oh my god this you know but actually yeah

1:18:44

they're only putting their 10% up as well.

1:18:47

But their 10% is pretty great. Yeah

1:18:54

that's true actually. So it's your 10%? Like

1:18:56

you're in Barbados, your 10% is better

1:18:59

than mine. So

1:19:01

it's yours you know it's all it's all perspective

1:19:03

and people look at your 10% be like bloody

1:19:05

hell like they're doing so much I just think it's

1:19:08

trying to reframe it through that lens.

1:19:10

Yeah but also yeah that's

1:19:12

the thing you don't know like some people will look at

1:19:14

you and go oh my god they're so lucky

1:19:16

they've got this podcast and then you'll

1:19:18

look at it and you'll be like

1:19:20

because it's normal to you like oh

1:19:22

whatever but then yeah completely

1:19:24

you lose touch of how much you would

1:19:26

have appreciated the opportunity like a few years

1:19:29

ago but then

1:19:29

completely yeah remember

1:19:33

the the wind. Give

1:19:35

yourself the wind. Actually

1:19:40

that's quite a good going back if you went back 10

1:19:43

years and looked at your

1:19:45

social media profiles now like

1:19:47

think about what that person would. I

1:19:49

mean I had full followers. Well

1:19:53

yeah even last year I had

1:19:56

this time last year I only just started

1:19:59

doing TikTok and I'd

1:19:59

28 followers

1:20:02

and I've got 20,000 followers.

1:20:04

So that is incredible. Yeah exactly,

1:20:06

exactly. So I know you didn't have to go back that far. Yeah. You

1:20:08

know you can see your progress.

1:20:11

Yeah it's good. Definitely.

1:20:13

Celebrate it. Absolutely.

1:20:16

Well Kat it's been such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank

1:20:18

you. I know we've gone around the houses with like

1:20:20

various different topics but it's been really great. No

1:20:22

it's been awesome.

1:20:25

Yeah I'll do a screen

1:20:27

grab in a minute as well. Okay I'll

1:20:29

do a screen grab. Hang

1:20:32

on one, two, three. This

1:20:37

hand can waste my chin. I

1:20:41

think that's done. Let me double check. Kat

1:20:44

Ronson on the last podcast brought a fantastic

1:20:47

guest, very talented performer and comedian.

1:20:49

Do go and check out her star's link card

1:20:51

or below right now in the show

1:20:53

notes. Something else in between.

1:20:56

I love the 10% that stuck in my head. The 10% of what

1:20:58

you see on social

1:21:02

media really resonated me.

1:21:04

But also another one of our guests who buys into

1:21:06

the give yourself the win. Yeah

1:21:08

well we all love that. This is what we're

1:21:10

talking about of air Kat. We have

1:21:13

very boring conversations today. Very similar

1:21:15

person to us and but also just

1:21:18

a lovely lovely person as well. They're really enjoyable. And

1:21:20

I genuinely enjoy it as well. I really appreciate

1:21:23

it. Land conversation. Do go and check out that most

1:21:25

our friendship. Yeah I guess the give yourself a win is

1:21:27

day off for sea.

1:21:29

Is it because it's like a Jim Daley thing? Day

1:21:31

off to sea. I don't think I can

1:21:34

claim that one. I don't think. Well I would.

1:21:36

Go for it mate. Paint patent it somehow.

1:21:38

The Lofassee.

1:21:39

If I print it out on

1:21:42

like a background of clouds in

1:21:44

the sunshine. Make a meme with it mate.

1:21:46

With Jim Daley 2021 or

1:21:48

something. Yeah. Make a meme. Does that make it official?

1:21:51

You could put proverbs or something underneath I think.

1:21:55

Or Jim Daley's

1:21:57

book letter to the Corinthians. What,

1:22:01

the South American football team? Yeah, exactly.

1:22:04

The Corinthians. Have you tried?

1:22:06

Three, five, two. Yeah.

1:22:08

Give yourself the wins. Give yourself

1:22:10

the, give yourself the win. Jim. I

1:22:13

might write a letter to the Corinthians if you want

1:22:15

to say. Jim Daley's letter

1:22:17

to the Corinthians. Oh

1:22:20

God. Brilliant.

1:22:21

Well, that is a niche football

1:22:24

reference there for anyone that doesn't know

1:22:26

football, but hope you enjoyed it if you do. And

1:22:28

for those who are more into the Bible stuff, then

1:22:31

it's also another niche. It's

1:22:33

cross pollination, whatever they call it. It's

1:22:36

not wonderful stuff. Mate, it's

1:22:37

been a lovely, lovely episode as ever.

1:22:40

And I'm looking forward to next week's episode already. I'm

1:22:42

not looking forward to going from my cabin to the house

1:22:44

now because it started.

1:22:46

Christmas rain. Yeah. Well, good luck. Good

1:22:48

luck. Thank you very much. Don't get cancelled.

1:22:51

Don't get wet. Don't get cancelled. Is that a

1:22:53

new sign off? Bye.

1:22:56

Bye.

1:23:24

Bye.