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1:26

I'm Maya Rupert. As an experienced

1:29

campaign manager in races from New York

1:31

City mayor to US president, I

1:33

know firsthand the power of representation

1:36

and leadership. Join me

1:38

on When We Win, a new podcast

1:40

from Lemonada Media, as I hear stories

1:42

of the transformation that women of color

1:45

are bringing to the political world. In

1:48

each episode, I discuss the people

1:50

and current races that are pushing the

1:52

boundaries and reshaping our political system so

1:54

that it can better support women

1:57

of colors sustain political leadership. when

2:00

these women win, we all

2:02

win. When we

2:04

win with Maya Rupert, out now,

2:06

wherever you get your podcasts. Lemonata.

2:20

Hi listeners. We're dropping in your feed right

2:22

now to share a preview of When We

2:24

Win, a new series from Lemonata Media. Maya

2:27

Rupert is an experienced campaign manager

2:30

and racist from New York City

2:32

mayor to US president, and she

2:34

knows firsthand the power of representation

2:36

in leadership. Join her on

2:38

When We Win, a new podcast from Lemonata

2:40

Media, as she hears stories of

2:42

the transformation that women of color are

2:44

bringing to the political world. In

2:47

each episode, she discusses the people and

2:49

current races that are pushing the boundaries

2:51

and reshaping our political system so it

2:54

can better support women of color's sustained

2:56

political leadership. After you listen to

2:58

this clip, search for When We Win with Maya Rupert

3:00

in your podcast app to hear the rest of

3:02

the episode. You can also find a link in

3:04

the show notes that will take you right there.

3:07

Enjoy. The

3:13

future is female. Let Black

3:15

women lead. Latina's fight,

3:18

Latina's win. Elect

3:20

women. Over

3:22

the last several election cycles, we have seen

3:24

more and more calls for greater

3:26

representation in our political leadership. Women,

3:30

especially women of color, have

3:32

been called on to run for office by

3:34

voters who said they were ready for change

3:36

and ready to vote for them. The

3:39

outcome of those races is a different story.

3:42

Despite more women of color winning in

3:44

each election cycle, we remain

3:47

globally underrepresented in elected office

3:50

and the same women candidates but

3:52

voters begged to run are often

3:54

still losing those races. And

3:57

it's no wonder Our political

3:59

system. The will be run

4:01

campaigns, judge campaigns and talk about

4:04

their ability to succeed. wasn't designed

4:06

with women of color in mind.

4:09

Roles in which candidates run for

4:11

office has transformed so much and

4:13

recent. Years. That means

4:15

we need to change the way we. Run to

4:17

like new types of handed as

4:19

in a new political world. it's

4:21

time for a new campaign playback.

4:24

That's why I'm talking to some of the most

4:26

exciting women of color in office today. I

4:30

my are refer to welcome to when we

4:32

when. In

4:34

each episode little funky the women of color

4:37

feel the. Need for the

4:39

conventional this and a typical campaigning with

4:41

a challenge. How that works for

4:44

that on what we can learn from. Having.

4:53

Authenticity is one of those things that

4:55

somehow seems to mean everything and nothing.

4:58

In politics, and this is especially true

5:00

for women of color. When

5:02

we run our. Authenticity is demand

5:04

It. But. It's also placed

5:06

under a microscope. Were. Told

5:08

that we must win the voters in her

5:11

own community, but that we must also appeal

5:13

the white. Voters in order to be

5:15

taken seriously and make everyone feel

5:17

like for being unapologetically ourselves the

5:19

entire time. And upholding

5:21

all of this. At the same time

5:23

gets too heavy for a candidate.

5:25

We question her authenticity. And.

5:27

Team her unelectable. The

5:31

same double bind doesn't exist for white

5:33

male candidates. Largely because we

5:35

have so many narratives that they

5:37

can authentically embody. White men can

5:40

be the plainspoken truth teller. The

5:42

Area is a wordsmith, the tough

5:44

and principled war hero. When

5:46

it comes to women of color, We.

5:48

Have fewer examples, so these candidates

5:51

are unceremoniously shoved into the few

5:53

narrow models that we've seen before.

5:56

And failure to sit within those visions

5:58

means voters are. Likely to find

6:01

their narrative resident. Spin.

6:04

Exactly who you are as a privilege that's only

6:06

ever afford it. To those who have never had

6:08

to answer the question, who do you think you

6:10

are. So the yardstick for

6:12

authenticity? It has white men, as it's

6:14

true. zero. But. New candidates

6:16

are ready to change. All of that. I

6:19

do solemnly swear to support the constitution of

6:21

the United States of America and of the

6:24

State of Minnesota and that I would discharged

6:26

faithfully that duties devolve in upon me as

6:28

a City council number. On

6:35

January ninth, Twenty Twenty Four The

6:37

first all women city. Council in

6:39

Saint Paul, Minnesota officially took

6:41

office. And six out of the

6:44

seven members are women. For

6:46

the first time in Us history a majority of American

6:48

city of are high. And Alexis, How.

6:51

Are Women and Is Superstores. Women of

6:53

color? Move up the deal for State

6:56

Farm as recently as Twenty seventh and

6:58

there wasn't a single woman of color

7:00

on the field and must. Say,

7:02

a whole lot of people who are

7:04

comfortable with majority meal majority institutions For

7:06

nearly two hundred and seven years of

7:09

city history. Or certainly certainly concerned

7:11

about representations. My

7:14

thoughts and prayers are with them in the sense. It's

7:18

an incredible story in order to

7:21

help me. So today I'm joined

7:23

by me to tell all in

7:25

the Council President and see for

7:28

Johnson. Recently elected councilmember Meter is

7:30

the trailblazer on the council. When

7:32

the Korean Iranian organizer when a

7:35

special election and twenty she. Became

7:37

a second woman of the first

7:39

season. Them and and the first openly

7:41

clear person to serve on that. she

7:44

was the youngest member of actual

7:46

for the only renter and almost

7:49

certainly the further to the left

7:51

politically in the five year said

7:53

she's become a political powerhouse and

7:55

st paul and help mentor the

7:57

next generation of women of color

7:59

in the office. Shaniqua

8:01

Johnson is one of the members of

8:04

that next generation. A black

8:06

woman. She was born and

8:08

raised in Worthington, Minnesota, a small rural

8:10

town near Minnesota's border with Iowa and

8:12

South Dakota. She made history

8:15

in 2018 when she became

8:17

the first woman of color ever to run

8:19

for state representative in that area. She

8:22

lost that race but continued to be

8:24

very involved in politics, moving to the

8:26

city who worked for a who's who

8:28

of Minnesota politicians. That experience

8:30

paid off with her election to the

8:32

state policy council. Mitra

8:36

Shaniqua, welcome to When We

8:38

Win. Thank you so much

8:40

for having us. I

8:42

am just incredibly excited to be having this conversation

8:44

with you and I want to start off and

8:47

really just kind of talk a little bit about

8:49

how you all got elected. You both ran for

8:51

office for the first time in 2018. You

8:54

know Mitra, you were running for city council,

8:56

Shaniqua, you ran for state rep. But

8:59

you were running from very different sort of areas

9:02

and I want to talk a little bit just about

9:04

what was it like being women of

9:06

color running for office from urban

9:10

and rural communities. How did

9:12

that play out for you two? I just would love

9:14

to hear you both speak to those experiences. It

9:18

feels like a different lifetime to think

9:21

about that. I'm Mitra Jalali. This is a

9:23

really fun podcast experience for me already. I

9:25

love this. In 2018 I think

9:28

about like where we

9:31

were in society, right? And you know Donald

9:33

Trump had been elected president. We felt like

9:35

we were still in the throes of that.

9:37

I was working in a congressional office. I

9:39

was helping constituents with like immigration

9:42

casework, which was brutal. There were

9:45

terrible things happening to our constituents

9:47

under the Trump administration. And there

9:50

was just this like deep

9:53

national anger and

9:55

like sense of injustice and fear.

9:57

And a special election opened

9:59

up. in the city

10:01

that I live in and love, St. Paul, and

10:04

I got just a whole bunch of text

10:07

messages all at once, like, you should think about running for this

10:09

seat. I think you should run for this seat. And

10:11

I just had this sense

10:14

of like, just

10:16

calling and desire to do

10:18

something in the local

10:20

conversation in a time where it felt like everything

10:23

in our national realm

10:25

was very broken. And so

10:28

that ended up being a year where a lot of women of

10:32

color kind of like came into the

10:34

collective political consciousness at once. Like in

10:36

the national scene, that is the year

10:38

that are now

10:40

Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez,

10:44

I think Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, Congresswoman

10:48

Anna Presley, like all of those women of

10:50

color got elected on the national

10:52

level and it was a big deal. And then locally,

10:54

myself, Irene Fernando, and

10:57

Angela Conley were like three women of color that ran to

11:00

that point, we just hadn't really seen that

11:02

many women of color candidates. We certainly like Ilhan

11:05

was our state rep and things like that. But

11:07

it was, that genesis feels clear to me as

11:09

I look back on it. So that

11:11

first election for me felt like I

11:13

was just stepping out as Mitra to

11:15

define myself in terms of what our

11:18

St. Paul community cared about. And

11:20

also like just really wanting to be myself,

11:22

like just wanting to not hide

11:25

who I am in terms of like my

11:27

personality and what I care about

11:30

and what I'm into, but to really be like

11:32

very focused on, you know, St.

11:34

Paul voters need housing stability. They

11:36

need a community safety system. They

11:38

need like community centered economic development.

11:40

They need like a sustainable, resilient

11:43

city as we look at climate

11:45

change. So all of that

11:47

was like what propelled me into public service

11:49

and what was really wild

11:52

and this will probably pivot to Shaniqua in

11:54

a nice way is when

11:56

I went through, like I ran again in 2019, I

11:59

Ran again in 2020. Twenty three to posses the oven

12:01

for the South three times in five years. On.

12:04

The. Sidebar feel. Very. Like worked

12:06

three times as hard for has as much

12:08

time in the same jobs. has the thing.

12:10

But like that's my story and. When

12:13

a bunch of women of color in the

12:15

next major cycle. Also. All

12:17

started running for office and they were

12:19

sharing in the group chat like comments.

12:21

they were getting reactions, they were getting

12:23

pushed back. Backlash Things like that I

12:25

thought strangely validated like five years after

12:28

going through it almost entirely by myself

12:30

because I was like of the this

12:32

is what people are like the vehicle

12:34

to gauge have like you're needing to

12:36

close out and I called i love

12:38

you either like look like you're smiling

12:40

and that's inappropriate or you weren't smiling

12:42

and like that was inappropriate does all

12:44

of it Oh that and so like.

12:47

I got a second unexpected wave

12:49

of empowerment like. Being.

12:51

So in this very closely with the

12:53

wave of candidates that cynical was a

12:55

part of and all that feels very

12:57

connected. And meaningful personal to me so. That.

13:00

Some of what it was like. Saying.

13:04

To you and I would love to delve more

13:06

into some of that tech same and he here

13:08

a little bit about the experiences but some equating

13:11

that does actually bring us really nicely. Then to

13:13

you to talk a little bit about your experiences

13:15

when a team. I. Think the as

13:17

it's kind of carry on with what. From

13:20

the President Joy Had Manson You know where the

13:22

things I think I'm. Super. Important

13:24

about my journey to. And

13:26

that and has have been a little

13:29

bit of all around earth the state

13:31

of Minnesota far as a five hundred

13:33

finding enough for me a lot of

13:35

times it was finally my political voice,

13:37

somebody who was born and raised and

13:39

roll Minnesota. I. Often did not

13:41

talk about politics that. The dinner table like

13:43

our family voted, you know, but it was kind of

13:45

like ever much in coming. Up, but there wasn't

13:47

really much. Emphasis

13:49

especially on just like running for

13:52

office. My mom of then asked

13:54

me about. What makes you

13:56

get into politics then Why are you

13:58

doing this work? As. I got

14:00

into politics really

14:02

because I genuinely

14:06

was very baffled by how many people

14:08

would be like, hey, Shaniqua, where

14:11

are you from? And I would say, I'm from

14:13

Worthington, Minnesota. And they would say, where's that? And

14:15

I'm like, it's a small town, you know,

14:17

just south of Mankato. And then they

14:19

would be like, there are black people

14:22

there? Wow. And you're just like,

14:24

okay. And then you go, oh, I'm from

14:26

the, you know, I actually represent the east

14:28

side. Oh, we're on the east side and

14:30

Ward seven. Oh, okay. Where is that? And

14:32

they're like, Oh, the east side. Wow. And

14:34

I was like, listen, I'm going to need you

14:36

to care about our communities because we have work

14:38

to be done. I'm going to need the wows to stop.

14:41

You should not be surprised when you come

14:43

in contact with like one black

14:45

person from one community or one area.

14:47

And then I would recognize though, in

14:50

the same breath, right? We just had

14:52

that conversation the next minute you'd be

14:54

making a decision that quite literally easily

14:56

could harm that same black person you

14:59

just had contact with, but you

15:01

don't feel the need to contact me then

15:03

you don't feel the need to invite me

15:05

then to make a decision with you or

15:07

to have a conversation with you about the

15:09

impact it's going to have on my family

15:11

or on the impact it's going to have

15:13

on my household. And it felt very stark,

15:15

like the invitation to political spaces or

15:17

maybe the lack thereof for people like

15:19

me with my experience with

15:22

my background, my story,

15:24

but it's like, you

15:27

know, a lot of this work in politics for me has been

15:29

about not just like what it

15:31

feels like in the moment, but the long-term

15:33

game and knowing that a lot of policies

15:35

that are made that impact families like mine

15:37

were often done without people like us that were

15:39

at the table. And so that for me

15:42

has been like a huge part of the journey of

15:45

the spaces, like even the campaigns that work on the

15:47

elected officials that come to know and grow to really

15:49

appreciate. But for sure, when it came down to running

15:51

on the East side of St. Paul, You

15:53

find the full circle of just like, wow,

15:55

I've had these conversations with neighbors in Worthington,

15:57

just like I've had these conversations with neighbors.

16:00

The Battle Creek and St. Paul and some of

16:02

the same concerns that were issued to them like

16:04

overall with access to knowing what a local government

16:06

birth and does it all at a lot of

16:09

the questions we were like you must have had

16:11

some really hard questions and I'm like a lot

16:13

of time there was like okay you tell me

16:15

what a city council member does because I've never

16:17

met my councilmember well when I was in Rome

16:20

and I thought it would like. Can.

16:22

You tell me and or little bit more about

16:24

what a state representative does because. I've. Also

16:26

never met my see representative it already

16:28

to me it was transitioning some understanding

16:31

seek annulment and federal governments understanding that

16:33

I wanted to advocate and join the

16:35

fight here. and say paul I'm around

16:37

Things that were a simple of potholes,

16:41

Pothole Thermal to what the most loud

16:43

so game issues here. When we're thinking

16:45

about this everyday activities in Minnesota you

16:47

have to get through the doors that

16:49

he thought the function sometimes with several

16:51

feet of snow how we'd get to

16:53

and from work is really important to

16:55

the average. Person. In.

16:58

The City councilmember it. Every decision I make

17:00

in the in that regard impacts the day

17:02

to day lives. The people that we currently

17:04

experience and feed on Both Meter and I

17:06

go right back onto our award and every

17:08

night is all. We also feel the impact

17:10

the what we do him for me. That's

17:12

really motivating when it comes to just thinking

17:14

about what the future looks like and what

17:16

it hasn't looked like in the past. And

17:20

I think you both. Sort of touched on

17:22

something. I'm You know that it's about

17:24

everyday people so everyone should feel welcome in

17:26

our political system but he knows that that

17:28

is not always true and a seat or

17:30

me to you. You should have indicated that

17:33

you felt in some ways kind of alone

17:35

and some this of the you are facing

17:37

and it was. You know knowing other people's

17:39

felt some of the same barriers. Obviously it's

17:41

not good but it's sort of like they're

17:43

sort of on the solidarity and that understanding

17:46

that that's just some of what it means

17:48

to be a woman of color doing some

17:50

of this works. I wonder if you all

17:52

have examples. Of some of the things

17:54

that you either you hurt yourself, are

17:56

you someone else keeps you. with this

17:58

examples of the kinds things that people

18:00

would say to you or ask

18:03

of you that you feel like were

18:05

specifically being posed to you because of

18:07

your identities and how that impacted your

18:09

willingness to keep going with it. Yeah,

18:13

like the one I remember the most

18:15

in 2018 was she's not like really

18:18

from here. And I was

18:20

like, okay, so are we gonna like have

18:22

a conversation about like perpetual foreigner syndrome and

18:24

like how people treat Asian Americans? Like,

18:27

right? Like, is that what we're doing in 2018? And

18:30

like, I was born and raised in Minnesota.

18:32

I like have this Twin

18:35

Cities family story and frankly,

18:38

Greater Minnesota family story. I mean, my

18:40

parents are from Korea and Iran. They

18:43

like individually found their way to Greater Minnesota

18:45

and then they found each other and then

18:47

they relocated to the Twin Cities. And then

18:49

I was raised all over Minneapolis and St.

18:51

Paul in the suburbs and then back in

18:53

Minneapolis and back in St. Paul. And it's

18:55

like, I felt a stark

18:58

contrast between having like so

19:00

much connection to this place, but because of

19:02

how I look being questioned. And

19:04

then my opponent and her

19:06

supporters who were like really pushing this narrative

19:08

at the time, she was an older

19:10

white woman. She lived

19:13

in like a much wealthier part of the ward. She

19:16

moved here from like Iowa. And

19:18

she was doing the like, you know, I've been a homeowner here for

19:20

20 years. And it was

19:22

just like such a palpable contrast. And my whole

19:24

thing was, we're not like doing

19:27

that anymore in our city. If you live here, you

19:29

have a stake in whether it works well or not.

19:32

You should run on your vision and values and what you're

19:34

willing to do as a council member not like I've

19:36

lived here for 20 years and therefore I get

19:38

to like have more clout and say it doesn't

19:41

mean we shouldn't listen to residents with a very

19:43

long view of our city. But

19:45

it certainly means is that we shouldn't

19:48

exclude people who haven't lived

19:50

here as long because of their

19:52

perspective. And we also should

19:54

not perpetuate like racism

19:57

in like our criticisms. candidates.

20:00

So like that's just a 2018 example I

20:02

can think of, but it's just like, you know,

20:04

I'm in this place in my career right

20:06

now where like, I

20:08

feel almost aggressively bored with all

20:11

that. And I'm just like, anyway,

20:13

like it's 2023. We're

20:16

here to do a job. These systems aren't

20:18

working. Minnesota is a place

20:20

where the failure of our systems

20:22

exploded outward in like the most painful

20:24

way on an international stage in 2020.

20:28

And, you know, we sent a trifecta to the

20:30

legislature to like get what needs to be done

20:32

done. And now our city councils look the way

20:34

they look just coming off this cycle. So I'm

20:36

saying this to say it used to really like

20:39

pull at me more. And now

20:41

I'm like, this is just a pebble in

20:44

my shoe. Like sometimes a person will say

20:46

something and it just like stings,

20:48

but then I'm like, I just flick it

20:50

off. It doesn't mean those thousand

20:52

paper cuts aren't there. But I have had to

20:54

just forge ahead because like, we

20:57

just don't have time for that anymore. And if you

20:59

stop and address every single thing, like

21:01

you would never get anything done. So it's always

21:03

this tension between, no, I am

21:06

going to like call out how this isn't right

21:08

for our culture and we deserve better. But also,

21:10

there's times where like derailing the work from that

21:12

is not the right movie there. It's always that

21:15

balance that I feel like I've had to forge.

21:17

So yeah. And I found it

21:19

really interesting to see just how people have, or

21:22

they assume based off of what they were doing

21:24

at my age, that somehow that means that I'm

21:26

doing the same thing. You know, I'm 28 years

21:28

old and the amount of

21:30

times that I hear people at the door be

21:32

like, you know, when I was 28, I wasn't

21:35

doing X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, you

21:37

know, that's you. It's not me. Yes.

21:39

You're in this space where you're talking to

21:41

people at times, like it just feels like

21:43

they assume based off of your age that

21:46

somehow you are less qualified than the person

21:48

who's twice your age. And it's such an

21:51

interesting example of hypocrisy when you're not understanding

21:53

that a lot of the young people that

21:56

are in our current political system

21:59

are often people running campaigns. They

22:01

are often people getting hired to write the

22:03

legislation, advocate for the bills at every level

22:05

of government. They are the people on Capitol

22:07

Hill. And I know that because

22:10

I am that person. I am the person who's been

22:12

able to do that work. And you find that sometimes

22:16

people may assume your lived experience for you.

22:18

And I feel like that is everything that happened

22:21

that Metra gave in that example in 2018,

22:23

100% happened to me on the campaign trail

22:25

in 2023. You

22:28

know, my predecessor was we did

22:30

the math three times my age, and

22:32

just thinking about the changing of what

22:35

that looks like and the transition of leadership

22:37

between it. And then in addition to that,

22:39

I'm also like the youngest council member that

22:41

was elected in Ward seven by like 20

22:44

years plus, including the people who came

22:46

before her. So when you just think

22:48

about like, how the faces are changing,

22:51

it's important to also understand that Ward

22:53

seven had almost a third

22:55

of the population under the age of 35.

22:57

So when we think about representation, and

22:59

just people that, you know, that piece is

23:01

often used, I think, against people, I started

23:03

to see things like in campaign ads that

23:06

for my opponents that were like, she's the

23:08

mature choice. What does that

23:10

mean? It's so

23:12

subtle. I love the subtlety.

23:14

Yes. Wow.

23:18

So you know, somehow you're just like,

23:20

how? Oh, absolutely.

23:22

So I wanted to hear some of

23:24

those stories specifically. And I appreciate both of

23:26

you for sharing them, because it's incredibly generous.

23:28

But also, Mitra, to the point you were

23:30

making, I completely agree, this is

23:33

the kind of stuff that we have to say,

23:35

you know, it's not worth

23:37

it to address every single incident. But

23:39

I do think it's so important for

23:41

people who are hearing the story about

23:44

this historic, all women city council right

23:46

now, to know that

23:48

it didn't happen without some of those things.

23:50

It happened in spite of those things, right.

23:52

So I appreciate these stories, because I think

23:54

they say a lot about

23:56

the resilience of when we're

23:59

successful. This kind of stuff

24:01

still happens, but people are resilient enough to

24:03

move past. That's why I really do appreciate

24:05

those stories. We're

24:09

going to take a quick break, but we'll be right

24:11

back with more, and then move on. In

24:22

1985 in Texas, three teenagers were

24:25

brutally murdered. There were

24:27

multiple suspects, but the police narrowed in on

24:29

one man, Ronald Tramboli.

24:41

If there was enough evidence to show Ronald

24:43

Tramboli committed these murders, why did

24:45

it take three trials to convict him? I

24:48

told him my dad was being tried for murder

24:50

of three teenagers, and

24:52

he didn't do it. For

24:54

it to be Tramboli, that makes zero

24:56

sense. If Ronald Tramboli

24:59

did commit the murders, why would Ronald

25:01

voluntarily request to undergo a brand new

25:03

test? A test his attorney

25:05

said could conclusively establish your guilt and

25:07

be very devastating to you. A

25:10

DNA test. To find something that's really

25:12

hot, we think, oh, this is the answer to all of

25:14

our dreams right now, prosecutors. This makes it

25:17

real easy. All we've got to do is run

25:19

a DNA test. And that's

25:21

one thing I've never understood, that

25:23

if there's evidence out there why

25:26

jurors are not privy to all

25:28

the evidence. I mean, obviously, Ronald

25:30

Tramboli committed this brutal crime. What

25:33

if I told you Ronald's DNA test was a match,

25:36

but he could still be innocent? How could

25:38

that be possible? Find out. From

25:41

Voyage Media, producers of the

25:43

True Crime hit podcast, Borderline,

25:46

comes a new True Crime story that

25:48

shares all the information the jury never

25:51

received and asks for the

25:53

listener's verdict. In

25:55

The Blood, hosted by Ben McKenzie,

25:57

available on Apple, Podcasts, Spotify, and

25:59

Facebook. And anywhere you listen to

26:01

podcasts, Heck. Smile

26:03

is a comedian, writer, producer and when it

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comes to confidently managing her finances she's a

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beginner. Joined her on the Dell Lemon Out,

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a Media New Ten episode podcast series as

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she dives into better understanding the financing trap

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doors that any of us to fall into.

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If you've ever stayed in a bad relationship

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to avoid moving out, costs are found yourself

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Week so the exploring all types of financial flops

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and money miss that stand in the way of

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our financial freedom on this show. Caches clean. we

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hardly know her but were determined to be her

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friend. You can listen to the Dough on Amazon

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music or every. That your podcasts.