0:10

hey, how's you done

0:11

i'm the podcast that's

0:13

great news thrilled

0:17

i

0:22

what you going do after

0:24

advice

0:26

to devote more time to end

0:28

this is a video game i

0:31

think i've read about it on the internet,

0:32

i a so

0:37

it's this fantasy world and i'm developing

0:39

a warrior with very high strength

0:42

and dexterity and i realized

0:44

let's see the person todd's that i can't really get

0:46

good at this game while continue do this podcast

0:48

i hope you can find a suitable replacement

0:50

i'm sure it won't be that hard a how

0:52

many hours of you devoted to this game

0:54

probably under five so far

0:56

but i'm i'm os projecting size

0:58

to ten thousand

0:59

i know how you how you feel because i

1:01

also and a gamer i play a game called

1:04

would blocks and i have i have also probably

1:06

devoted such than doesn't hours on it

1:08

the move would blocks from one

1:10

place to another are so

1:12

you've described would watch to me and

1:15

every time we do i feel like a lumberjack

1:18

district you lumberjack different

1:19

the

1:20

cool gave

1:22

i go to a word sinuses and i a whole

1:24

wasn't birth to a trust as they

1:27

have limited access a ted ted is

1:29

so i do have a question about

1:31

building rank of i saw so

1:33

i'm not i don't know much about this game

1:36

i know that it's apparently really beautiful

1:38

correct

1:39

yeah

1:39

and i saw elon musk

1:41

posted a screenshot of his

1:44

bill

1:44

yeah super

1:46

the refiners

1:47

well i am not yet good enough

1:49

to know why was a horrible bill but apparently

1:51

like everyone would wanna build oh

1:53

yeah with sardar steady a video

1:56

game is a know build is like zeus

1:58

he a bill does the decisions make about how

2:00

to develop your character like you can put points

2:02

in two strains which makes you like whole

2:04

game you can carry more stuff or dexterity

2:07

which makes me sort of more nimble unable to handle the for

2:09

weapons i'd also like

2:11

it's like what time does ah equipment

2:13

you carry what swords shields blah blah blah

2:15

nurture so you are must billionaire

2:19

or the most successful by the world's posted

2:21

his build which apparently to true l

2:23

didn't ring nerds is white

2:25

laughably bad it's like it's like the equivalent

2:28

of like recording professor

2:30

patasse with your max light you

2:32

know internal microphone just stuff you would never

2:34

do if you knew what you reduce doing so people are

2:36

roasting him for days and that

2:39

made me so happy to just twitter had been so horrible

2:41

and toss it and you just saw this huge

2:43

cross partisan ah consensus

2:46

that you must isn't good it out and ring and it

2:48

it brought everyone together

2:49

okay so it made you happy to see the entire

2:52

internet beating up oman

2:53

yeah what should you know i light online

2:55

harassment or mates yeah notice yes on

2:57

and harmless you're allowed to make fun of people for life

2:59

what did i mean watching this and for a made

3:02

me think what is elon musk is actually

3:04

not smart and i saw people apparently

3:06

he's like a really shitty kotor

3:08

and he also my my main complaint

3:11

about elon musk is that he steals content and

3:13

he does this all the fucking

3:15

time he , every

3:17

mean that he shares you never hear in

3:20

a whatever like a ceiling name's is not

3:22

like stealing money from somebody but

3:24

if you have a platform that big it's i

3:26

think that you should credit the creators like he's

3:29

posted aim admittedly sort of silly

3:32

little drawing that call and right

3:34

did didn't credit him at all

3:36

this could have been really like college like mean collins

3:38

it into been a creator he iran

3:41

had like linked to a subsurface would have been really good

3:43

for him and his doesn't bother to do that was i think this is

3:45

really bad internet etiquette

3:47

you know i'm not sure i agree because so

3:49

many people will retreat

3:51

beams without checking

3:54

try to track down to created them i agree

3:56

he should have

3:56

but most people don't have the you know

3:58

however many followers the eighty million dollars

4:01

or whatever it is it's not a big deal and somebody

4:03

with a hundred followers breach with some be

4:05

without credit but he could i need to i

4:07

mean he does this all happened actually it's actually worse

4:09

than that i saw an article the other day

4:13

mk , w the

4:15

local npr

4:17

they can here in seattle and the article

4:19

is from twenty eighteen and they research at because

4:21

of course ilan is and the news again

4:23

he tweeted a photo of a coffee mug

4:26

with a picture of a farting unicorn

4:28

on it and said this is my favorite

4:30

line where is this is my favorite mug

4:32

ever and then two

4:34

months after that so he didn't credit

4:36

the artist at all which okay he played it know

4:38

the artist was or maybe did two

4:41

months after that he

4:43

took that aren't work and he

4:45

was using it to promote a software

4:47

the upgrade of of hustlers

4:51

we don't you put it he put the fart a unicorn

4:53

in the tesla the logo on the tesla

4:56

the through it i target

4:58

good it's really not good

5:00

he says similar just random thug and dude

5:03

dude and dinners his artwork emile on

5:05

my stole it in put it in his fucking out

5:07

that's the hunter

5:08

the farted unicorn is the intellectual

5:10

property of whoever caused it to farce

5:13

not

5:14

okay so the artist's name is tom

5:16

edwards i think we as influence

5:18

influencers should cut out the artist whose names

5:20

edwards what desire to to

5:22

i know now he's a he's like a six year old

5:24

man and seventy or probably of his on

5:26

slack

5:27

sorry goncourt ideally to seven year old

5:29

man is who would come up with are starting today

5:31

as a , a good live

5:34

oak and so were after desert i

5:36

play ordinary now ordinary ride my

5:38

spectral steed across spectral steed

5:41

the bladder landscapes that's not a sentence

5:44

and you on mosque is bad at all the drink and

5:46

i will beat up and i moved blocks and suzy

5:48

who were tricked by a lumberjack would

5:52

anyone does it ever this increasingly gaming

5:54

center podcast

5:55

this is lacking reported in them caterers

5:57

i'm jesse singal and and today yes

5:59

the target little bit more about gender i want to talk

6:02

about this very weird very

6:04

stupid very self defeating strain

6:06

of what as it is basically

6:09

evolution denialism that's really

6:11

popular in some progressive quarters now

6:13

got a couple example that a one talks about how that

6:16

is really i'm hoping liberals

6:18

get owned by the likes of matt waltz which

6:20

is never good science but first

6:22

let first

6:23

jesse were doing at we're going to talk

6:25

about johnny depp

6:26

amber heard stay god i

6:28

have searched high and low fraud

6:30

discourse on this try was i thought would get attention

6:32

but no one's saying anything about know some glad

6:35

you finally our timing

6:36

the i think i'll we are here to or explain

6:38

it to the people so as everyone

6:40

has probably heard by now because

6:42

this is the most important story in the world's johnny

6:45

depp was mostly successful and his

6:47

defamation suit against his ex wife

6:49

amber heard the mechanics of this

6:51

or little bit confusing because he filed

6:54

a defamation suit against her

6:56

for claiming and a washington post opinion

6:58

piece that she was a victim

7:00

of abuse and then she countersued

7:04

claiming that he hadn't defamed her

7:06

when one of his lawyers said that the allegations

7:08

were a hoax and then the

7:11

suits were hurt at the same time by the same juri

7:14

the position i suppose i'm anyway

7:16

the jury did agree that the amber heard

7:18

had been defamed on one on

7:20

one points when his lawyer

7:23

accused her of damaging their penthouse

7:25

apartments and then blaming it on johnny depp

7:28

but he was really the big winner they

7:30

wanted her to million dollars and

7:32

they awarded him fifteen

7:34

in dollars which was reduced do

7:36

too

7:36

i believe bridget your loss to run

7:38

ten million and i have to admit i did not

7:41

follow this case very closely

7:43

i read about it a little bit i

7:45

watched a little bit of his testimony when

7:47

i was home sick one day and none

7:50

of hers so i was just don't feel qualified

7:52

to comment on whether or not the outcome was

7:54

sarah like with almost everything

7:56

else it depends on the perspective of the person

7:59

that and being so i can read

8:01

one article or twitter thread

8:04

making a convincing argument that she was lying

8:06

and then i can read another way making convincing

8:08

argument that he was lying and since

8:10

i did watch it i just i don't want away

8:13

and on whether or not i think it was right

8:15

because i don't know i'm the

8:18

will say though that i was surprised

8:20

at the l com because the

8:22

bar for defamation and the u s

8:24

is very high way higher

8:26

than places like the uk and this is especially

8:28

true for celebrity

8:29

while that also which is if it's relevant here because there

8:31

was a uk defamation case where he lost

8:34

my senses he mostly last right us

8:36

and if you

8:37

read her peace in the washington post if you actually read

8:39

the piece that started all of this it's

8:42

really vague in terms of actual

8:44

allegations it's titled i

8:46

spoke up against sexual violence and safe

8:49

and face our cultures wrath that has to change

8:52

and the whole thing which doesn't actually

8:54

mentioned death by name is much

8:56

less about any specific violence

8:58

that she faced or that she allegedly says

9:01

and much more about the public response

9:03

to her talking about abuse the

9:05

jury apparently thought that she was lying about

9:07

the abuse itself and that she was doing it maliciously

9:10

in order to hurt him but i was still

9:12

surprised about the outcome because not

9:15

only is the bar for defamation really

9:17

high especially

9:18

celebrities

9:20

if you read the op ed it's hard to find

9:22

any particular line that was literally

9:25

false like here's here's the one

9:27

line that alludes to johnny depp two

9:29

years ago i became a public figure representing

9:31

domestic abuse abuse and

9:33

i felt the full force of our cultures wrath

9:36

for women who speak out that's it as

9:38

long as she's not lying about the public

9:41

harassment in i doubt that she is

9:43

it's hard to see what could be false about

9:45

that she did become a public figure

9:48

representing domestic abuse and she did

9:50

i assume feel the full force of our

9:52

cultures wrath for women who speak out although

9:54

that's big and probably a bit hyperbolic

9:57

so that's why

9:58

the problem with that for that's also know i see

9:59

getting sued he's he's suing

10:02

her over the reference to him

10:03

that's the reference to him

10:05

i know bit but but never the part of it that matters

10:07

is saying that she was she was

10:09

against domestic abuse i'm saying a public

10:11

figure representing domestic abuse yeah i've

10:13

seen as soon as a rare and so he doesn't even if she

10:15

was lying about silly before wrath that is relevant

10:17

to the trial

10:19

right right but that's the that's the senate this that

10:21

this like your two years ago i became a public

10:23

figure representing domestic abuse and i felt the full

10:26

the full force our cultures razr one his be out

10:28

that's the only part that reference

10:30

that as that's a reference to him even

10:32

if he didn't actually beat her

10:35

she did become a public figure

10:37

representing domestic abuse so that's why i found

10:39

this surprising but again they

10:41

didn't want your testimony and

10:43

i saw not going away on whether not i think it was rates

10:47

when i time found most interesting

10:49

about this whole sordid saga was

10:51

that the washington post opinion

10:53

column or blip op ed was

10:55

go ghost written by the a seal you and

10:58

it , that they wrote this for her

11:00

and exchange for a substantial donation that

11:03

she didn't actually give them market because skim

11:05

like half or something we talked about that

11:07

in that prima pursued prima few weeks ago so

11:09

we're not have we're not that again the day

11:11

but if you're interested you can sign up like reported that

11:14

word because today it's we're

11:16

going to talk about the stupid internet bullshit

11:18

angle of this the new jersey i'm talking

11:20

about the takes have you see any good ones

11:22

oh my god i've seen so

11:24

many dates yes

11:25

everybody has a take everybody has their own pride

11:28

flag and everybody

11:29

there are take a it's been a recital but

11:31

like what what jumps out at you about i did your father

11:33

this more closely than i us and flow

11:35

i mean a lot jumped out of me about it up in

11:37

a say like as a member of the pundit

11:40

class i recognize that every

11:42

time there is some sort of the that like this

11:44

you are supposed to find a way to pigeonhole

11:46

it into your personal beat and that's why

11:48

you'll find articles like what police

11:51

shooting say about climate change the

11:53

shit like that and i'm only sort of exaggerating

11:55

when i say this like that particular example

11:57

those kind of joke but

11:59

the googled when police shooting say about climate

12:02

change and there were no direct hits but

12:04

i did get a new yorker piece by bill mckibben

12:06

called racism please limit violence

12:09

and climate or not separate issues where

12:11

i mean

12:11

there's no such a separate issue get a he's know

12:13

this manner

12:14

the as to have this class of people whose

12:16

job is to look at an event

12:19

some sort of current event or maybe even a historical

12:22

events and pigeon hole that into their

12:24

to their pet projects race and so

12:26

something like this is absolute catnip

12:29

for takeovers and i

12:31

did not see any takes connecting

12:34

the trial the climate change although surely

12:36

one is coming but i did see

12:39

a few that connected it with the second

12:41

biggest issue facing the

12:43

american public right now which is of course racism

12:45

this is a headline from the route by

12:48

someone named candace make duffy amber

12:51

heard verdict sends a message to black

12:53

women everywhere

12:55

every

12:57

has involved in this was why are you what

13:00

does that mean

13:01

still just install it sends a message specimen

13:03

everywhere hit another

13:04

i now

13:06

walk me through it

13:07

basically if you are a privileged

13:09

white woman like amber heard

13:11

it's even she would lose a case

13:14

then think about what that means for black woman

13:17

so centralizing because like

13:19

i mean this was a complicated here's my senses

13:21

he lost speech in part because

13:24

i guess i'll watch much of it dubs dabs

13:27

legal team attacked her credibility which is what

13:29

you would do in a case like this it seems like there are a number

13:31

of cases where it can be reasonably

13:33

argue that she lied right

13:35

yeah there is

13:36

in quit her own witnesses

13:38

apparently conflict it'll have a

13:40

lot of her custom

13:41

a of course at once again

13:44

we didn't y sus so we need to be really

13:46

careful about my but the put the point is yes

13:48

if there was if there is a

13:50

black women who solved in a case

13:52

like this and there been a lot of conflicting

13:55

a house or what happened and and the possibility

13:57

she lied about suspicious she would have a bad

13:59

time either but i don't see this idea

14:02

of like wealth a white woman it's not

14:04

what this didn't happen to a white woman who happen to

14:06

a specific white woman who did specific things

14:09

and who is going up against a very same

14:11

as are and then for actor lighter

14:13

wasn't it wasn't fun to watch there

14:15

were no winners here but it's like i just

14:17

is this well he's got a letter i mean he's

14:19

he's definitely a lack of he is like he has

14:21

be had to go through all the shit he did he seems

14:24

if anything like more of an asshole

14:26

i think you're wrong about that i think

14:28

in terms of i think the reason that he did

14:30

this and the reason that he wanted

14:32

this to be aired and public was because

14:34

he was fighting for his reputation

14:37

this was about the public perception

14:39

and i think if you look

14:41

at bad at the the takes you will

14:44

see that the media class

14:46

is solidly team amber but

14:48

if you look at that discourse

14:50

the online discourse everybody

14:52

else is solidly of course i'm generalizing

14:56

johnny and so yeah

14:58

i think for him i think he'd i think he does one

15:01

i mean besides the fact that she now

15:03

has to pay him ten million dollars as he is now have i

15:06

, just in terms of rehabilitation he

15:08

can say

15:10

i was defame doesn't happen i

15:12

just it's just the sort of the racially centralizing

15:15

discourse on this has become so automatic that

15:17

automatic just i don't find it helpful way of understanding

15:19

whites even just basic questions

15:21

of power like is to slobber is more complicated

15:24

rail ring complicated bell whenever i say that

15:25

there's nothing to do with race absolutely nothing

15:28

i i don't think this is the

15:30

route is an art of his of is a website that covers

15:32

race and so there has to be racial

15:34

angle to this

15:36

yeah the right or just

15:39

a lot of take satellite also the

15:41

i'm sure some the ones you highlighted notices

15:44

but just like

15:45

that me really stripped away the details of this

15:48

case and word aside yup this is just more evidence

15:50

society hates women like that yeah that's what it

15:52

comes out

15:52

yeah that was the bulk of it and there was

15:54

one that i especially enjoyed from

15:56

mired down again in the guardian she wrote

15:59

a piece called the amber her johnny depp

16:01

trial is an orgy of massage any here's

16:03

laundromat strange a logical

16:05

and unjust ruling has the a second sanctioning

16:07

depth alleged abuse of heard and punishing

16:10

heard for speaking about it it will have a devastating

16:12

effect on survivors who will be silenced

16:14

now with the knowledge that they cannot speak about

16:16

their violent experiences at men sans

16:19

without the threat of a ruinous libel suits

16:21

and that sense women sees just

16:23

became a lot less rates so now

16:25

she cares about free speech and now she can define when

16:27

a woman as in

16:29

i

16:31

yeah i guess is as just seems

16:33

like a little bit of us over extrapolation

16:36

to get his was one very specific incident

16:38

involving it's too bad people

16:40

and i

16:42

don't know man decide it's it's it's

16:45

it's it's it's sort of your play the hits like

16:47

of course of course she would never write

16:49

a com about there have been instances

16:51

where like

16:53

men have not been treated well i'm benefited user

16:55

submitted do and lost their jobs overseas

16:57

being sued of right now for

16:59

defamation by stephen elliot because more

17:02

donnie and the woman who wrote this hello started

17:05

this shitty medium and less that was a collection

17:07

of a bunch of anonymous and sometimes false

17:09

allegations she does not mention that and the color

17:11

by the way she does not business she does

17:13

it does

17:14

she doesn't disclose that sensei so

17:16

sorry i'm late in a calm about a libel

17:18

say i mean this is like basic journalists talk

17:20

about i'll do full disclosure fight i

17:22

like while on earth ah yes

17:24

i did

17:24

yeah you'd have is in full disclosure if you had a dream

17:27

about somebody wants i'm okay

17:28

it problem we should probably disclose that you and i are both suing

17:31

the other the dollars

17:33

let me read you another another

17:35

lie

17:36

from dot against his

17:38

the trial has turned into a public orgy of

17:40

massage any well most of the vitriol

17:42

is not as nominally directed at heard it

17:44

is hard to shake the feeling that really it is

17:46

directed at all women and in particular

17:49

those of us who spoke out about gender to be

17:51

some sexual violence during the height of the me too movement

17:54

we are in a moment of virulent

17:56

anti feminists backlash and

17:58

the modest gains that were made an error i've

18:00

been retracted with a gleeful display a victim

18:02

blaming at a mosque else deceit guess

18:04

what evidence she points to to

18:06

demonstrate that we are in a moment of virulent

18:08

anti some is douglas

18:10

if i had it as a zeolite i gamer gate

18:12

tweet from twenty two

18:13

the issue doesn't present any evidence

18:16

nothing nothing

18:17

the it completely may it's like this

18:19

one thing happen i mean stimulus

18:21

of that has happened since me

18:23

to include you like we have our first

18:26

the you know who adds vice president

18:29

will see now that like if you're gonna just scary facts

18:31

we have a senior vice president ah

18:33

we have a black woman other supreme court of course

18:35

of i just started take those do i tabulate jumps

18:38

semitism my wedding full stop at like

18:40

you you get to the other way there's is very silly

18:43

superficial punditry but some people you're fighting

18:45

the he was talking about was a

18:47

all of the death threats that jk rowling has

18:49

gone for speak

18:51

yeah she's written a lot yeah yeah

18:53

devils

18:53

yeah the guardian should and her editorship

18:56

and like hey how bout a link issue just something

18:58

something akin to been somebody calling

19:00

fucking comma here as a counter whatever just

19:02

something that there's nothing

19:04

yeah but asking for evidence isn't as i'm this yet

19:07

last year

19:07

and

19:09

then of course you had inevitable invoking

19:11

, gamer gate wishes you mentioned last week

19:14

dot again that as well well

19:16

next we have ellie missile from the

19:18

nation this was his tweet after the verdict

19:20

was announced holy crap they

19:22

rule for deb the take away for domestic

19:24

abusers is going to be threatened to

19:26

sue your ex for defamation if they talk about

19:28

what happened and someone responded

19:31

to that dude you're one of my favorites when

19:33

it comes to politics brilliance but obviously

19:35

we didn't watch the same trial and here was

19:37

here ellie missile responded

19:39

to this guy that's probably

19:41

because your focus on the trial

19:43

which trial could hardly give hardly crap about and

19:45

i'm focus on the verdicts and how these

19:48

by bad guys

19:48

really

19:51

good an hour

19:52

because you watched the trial which

19:54

i didn't hear that be a

19:56

very very sophisticated analysis

19:59

it doesn't matter

19:59

not actually gil days because this will

20:02

be good for bad guys

20:02

that is it is worth noting it

20:05

is if you're johnny

20:07

depp and you basically

20:09

the assume i know he he says he lost

20:11

work because this as part of it as i see me as basically

20:13

i

20:14

kick out of the pirates of the care

20:15

iran's i assume he has basically i'm limited resources

20:18

really rich people can

20:21

screw over other people even with frivolous

20:23

libel cases but light normal

20:25

people day to day life it's it's

20:28

it's really hard to see someone for

20:30

defamation the states and like a decent

20:32

lawyer

20:34

the tell you just not to bother ah

20:36

it's it's not it's not something done

20:39

lately and it's like a hellish

20:41

process my understanding is for all involved

20:44

so the idea that this

20:46

incredible outlier of a case involving

20:48

to rich and famous people will influence

20:51

people deciding whether to sue others

20:53

is just not it's it's is also says like

20:55

not good to tell people that towards

20:58

his disciples casual fear mongering

21:00

casual you and i have observed and lot in

21:02

progressive spaces that in that i used to release

21:04

that tribute a conservatives to be honest bullets

21:07

i don't actually think it's true that this is as

21:09

good that have any impact on the average

21:11

woman seeking justice his ability to get

21:13

it or the wrists he'll be sued to the dentist in

21:16

normal circumstances it's very hard

21:18

to see someone for defamation so i just estates

21:20

for estates

21:22

half cocked and again he's like i didn't even want

21:24

to try which to be fair we did was try to either but

21:26

we're just we're responding to the tickets which we did

21:28

read or us

21:29

we have vice news we've

21:31

all sailed amber heard society

21:33

we the overwhelming

21:36

part i failed

21:39

the overwhelming deliver content targeting

21:42

heard is itself abusive and humiliating

21:44

x experts say and is partly

21:46

why we collectively as a society are

21:48

failing heard plants

21:51

oh

21:52

what do we what do what ,

21:54

i genuinely don't give a shit about what

21:57

if what think they're both horrible

21:59

which we have you'd evidence for a i

22:01

would not in a million years root

22:03

for either of their because i think rooting for

22:05

either them is sort of crazy what

22:07

what is that's the case by

22:08

no no no no no no jesse you are

22:10

part of the collective you

22:13

are we live in a society if one

22:15

person since and amber heard mean everyone

22:17

since an amber heard me

22:18

i mean i do i did not look for the most

22:20

sausage air my her anti heard me i

22:23

ate there's no doubt in my mind that is the case

22:25

at a lot of a shit online went completely off the

22:27

rails because it always does i'm sure that's

22:29

true but just lights we sailed her

22:31

like what was the other nurses horrible

22:34

that were mine i know there's always horrible people

22:36

my

22:36

there's no such thing as way

22:38

we katie we have failed steve

22:40

yes yes we've

22:42

failed

22:42

no one no one no one davis said it's

22:44

if the allegations against him work were literally

22:46

true and would use

22:48

the rewarded it you failed

22:49

earlier i didn't i do know the united

22:51

or what they did we did sales what i was

22:53

i sort of he's on how we all sales stephen alliot

22:56

at

22:56

really excited about a mouse it's

22:59

just i mean i know i should

23:01

be that excited about of about case that and arguably

23:03

has some free speech like they're free suisse

23:05

implications but implications really excited about as good

23:07

what would oh

23:09

i have

23:11

been toward i guess what i i've been

23:13

threatened to be sued by

23:16

a doctor pushing quack treatments

23:19

the

23:20

i began to to be sued multiple types

23:23

including one spot a private a trans activists

23:25

who falsely said i tried to sue hurts

23:27

which is what it's but

23:29

in my case of the city medium amherst

23:32

i seek elliot is trying to find out see

23:34

say this never happened

23:36

this thing i was accused of never happened i was the should

23:38

we should be more specific for people who don't

23:40

know what about what i'm jared know you base this oh yes

23:43

stephen elliot is a a writer

23:45

ah full disclosure

23:46

when you they a real estate magnate

23:48

they'd made that yeah i i

23:50

did you and i both might

23:53

have to be a little bit of us enduring

23:56

weird else is as if to say he's afraid

23:58

either fruits and

23:59

i didn't

24:02

read

24:04

it before i got involved

24:08

in

24:12

all these people immediately who had supposedly

24:14

harm women and his

24:16

cell said

24:18

in the spreadsheet said that i was

24:20

afraid to face with rape accusation, his

24:22

lawsuit involves

24:25

the claim that he's assuming he's

24:28

trying to find out who added that

24:30

who's responsible for accusing him of that

24:32

ends i understand the fear that

24:34

this has a chilling as i bought our also having

24:37

hubbard and learned about cases where people

24:39

were accused of shit they didn't do

24:41

and how are you having dealt with some of the whole rumor mongering

24:44

garbage go out and left on my own i

24:46

, think you should have some recourse if

24:48

there's a professionally damage rumor about you

24:50

and no one can point to evidence

24:53

and what happened after stephen l a template

24:55

is edwin point there are other times they thought he was

24:58

ill creepier bad with boundaries no one came

25:00

close even say he'd been accused of rape by rape

25:02

third parties third just suggested

25:04

you just suggested have some recourse so i'm

25:06

not really comfortable saying that this is lights

25:08

a slam dunk white threat to

25:10

journalism or free speech i don't know i

25:12

think it's for topic it's important to that i

25:14

since i need a better catchphrase

25:17

after a bit less came out stephen

25:19

was dropped by his agents i can't

25:21

member one or both agency lost a bunch of

25:23

friends he lost a bunch of work he his

25:25

career as a writer basically ended

25:27

in that moment and stephen had been kid had moments

25:29

of success he was the founder of the rumpus he

25:32

he wrote his are in a ton of books one of which was made

25:34

into a movie

25:35

adderall there's

25:36

james franco and

25:39

ah yes yes even had real here

25:42

there are real

25:43

repercussions about like for being on

25:45

this list for him especially after he wrote

25:47

about it he wrote about his inclusion on this on

25:50

this list for collect and after

25:52

you read about the piece on collette i think things

25:53

i got worse worms and then he

25:56

announced that he was serving word or dot again

25:58

created his list and things

25:59

probably got even worse for him people have

26:02

spray painted somebody spray painted rapist

26:04

on his house they just like sprayed

26:07

portrait painted some shit on his car and

26:09

his career as a as a creative is basically

26:11

over at that point and , nobody

26:14

has come forward and said yes stephen elliot

26:16

raped me were assaulted me or anything like that

26:18

there's no victim here and

26:20

i wrote about this for the stranger and

26:23

as you mentioned people came out of the woodwork

26:25

to make other big allegations

26:27

like he asked me to go

26:30

into his hotel room to watch a movie

26:33

shit like that which is stephen being

26:35

see that and i talked to male friends of his and see

26:37

my friends of his he said like yeah stephen is great

26:39

with boundaries but this was like

26:41

he would have asked he was making a movie he would have s

26:44

anybody who would have asked my ten year old to go and watches

26:46

movie he was obsessed with this movie i don't

26:48

i feel insulted because when i hung out with him a new worlds

26:51

he did violate a single barrier by what's wrong with this

26:54

i guess he learned his lesson we stevens cases

26:56

writer named liz lands who she's written

26:58

for a bunch of different places and i believe that she's

27:01

read a book or to she

27:03

had been an intern or something like that like that rumpus

27:06

which is this website that's even founded and

27:08

she said that stephen because

27:10

people come on they make these public allegations basically

27:13

mining their their memories for

27:15

it things that maybe they didn't think were

27:17

abusive at the time but now i would

27:18

where people recognize his side sorry i'm integral be

27:20

the lights when someone like steve it becomes

27:23

the twitter character of the day you will

27:25

people need to recognize that lights

27:27

oh suddenly ten people at allegations

27:30

there's is very weird psychological

27:32

thing where people will my to say oh

27:34

this thing happened to me seven years ago

27:37

i don't really at the time it didn't bother me but

27:39

now that this person's controversial and that i did skyn

27:41

tweet how abuse i was now i find it

27:43

abusive people should really be mindful that because

27:45

he scored a good accusations will sort

27:47

of white multiply rapidly but lot

27:50

of them are just that

27:50

yeah so lives one of the allegations

27:53

she made about stephen was that he demanded

27:55

her free labor well

27:57

stephen had receipts he showed me the

27:59

even

27:59

was where he was i don't remember what the project he was

28:02

where he on an anthology or movie or something like

28:04

that and he ashley's use these

28:06

looking for an assistant and he

28:08

ashley's of she would be interested and then he

28:10

offered to pay her and this was in the emails

28:13

and i contacted lives and i said you

28:15

know would you be able to share this correspondence

28:17

for stephen ah sued or for free or

28:19

to manager free labor and she said yes

28:22

and then she changed her mind and said no we'll

28:24

stephen sure the email

28:25

with me and he offered a fucking parents

28:27

she just she lie about it she lied about

28:29

it or she misremembered it or or if if

28:31

she misremembered she then should have but she never

28:33

fallen up and sir i was wrong he did

28:36

africa famous

28:36

no and season has like

28:39

really face of his these in real

28:41

estate i think he's doing fine because seem as

28:43

a hustler a way we sort of got derailed

28:45

but stephen is suing wire donegan arm

28:47

i'm not sure what the status of the of the suit is right

28:49

now but every time there's been some attempt

28:52

to get it's round of course even a

28:53

one so we'll see what happens

28:55

okay so back to the takes

28:57

ah there were some in addition to all of these

29:00

damn unsophisticated takes on the left

29:02

there are also definitely some on the

29:04

right mostly about how this

29:06

was the death of me to likes

29:09

even crowder is a popular conservative comedian

29:11

he tweeted johnny depp defeated me to a

29:13

bunch of fox correspondence said basically the same

29:16

thing the thing o p twitter account

29:18

tweeted account picture of johnny depp from pirates of

29:20

the caribbean as

29:21

he saw that guys you know

29:23

if he's yes everyone such

29:25

an asshole yeah

29:26

the liberal who was accused of beating his wife

29:29

like this is the person who you who you've

29:31

decided to make a hero for your fucking cause an

29:33

issue

29:33

the got a trigger anything digital or get

29:36

to this again later but anything to tribunal

29:38

yeah totally and is this idea

29:40

that this was the death of me too

29:42

no no this isn't true and

29:44

more it on again says it it's not true when stephen

29:46

crowder says that either one event like

29:49

that's like saying that because harvey

29:51

weinstein was convicted

29:53

that mean sexual harassment is over these

29:55

are just these are events into themselves

29:58

they are not proxies for americans culture

30:00

the dumbest take however comes from buzzfeed

30:03

let me just read you the headline jesse

30:05

here's a list of all the celebs

30:07

who like johnny depp instagram statements

30:11

it's rename some balls scenario heard

30:14

a lot

30:17

ryan adams well that seems appropriate

30:20

patti smith michelle branch ashley

30:22

benson never heard of her senate this

30:24

doesn't just have the the celebs

30:26

who liked his instagram posts after he won

30:28

it also has their a bow geez

30:31

so like naomi campbell

30:33

and then commented it before her emerges

30:36

emma roberts cassie

30:38

, zoe saldana jason

30:41

mama he also like amber heard spurs

30:43

so he's the central issue

30:45

of the list of people who like a blister famous

30:48

people who like this fucking post some of whom

30:50

are probably johnny

30:51

the friends government

30:53

reporting from by said okay

30:55

so those steaks are just kind of lazy and down but i did

30:57

see one in the guardian by joe full a pool they said

30:59

did sorta made me think unfortunately a

31:01

, is called the dub defamation

31:04

suit should outrage and paul you and she comes

31:06

at this from a free speech perspective

31:08

which i think is sort of clever arms

31:11

here's a passage from that piece you can believe

31:13

that heard was not actually a domestic violence victim

31:15

and also recognize the objective fact that the

31:17

public associated her with domestic violence

31:20

you can believe that dub was not an accuser and also

31:22

recognize that he was in fact a man accused

31:24

of abuse you can believe that amber heard

31:26

is a devil incarnate and johnny depp is an

31:29

innocent lamb and still realize that the

31:31

only sarah reading of hers words and the

31:33

post and of us law which runs all

31:35

of us broad right of free speech is that

31:37

herds word simply do not meet requirements

31:39

for defamation and that

31:41

gets back to why i was surprised that this verdict

31:43

because this verdict reading of the of

31:46

the op ed which wasn't actually written by her it was

31:48

written by the easier you

31:50

sure there's not a literal

31:52

paul said but

31:54

they have her didn't say and herpes johnny that

31:56

beat me it's pretty clear that he did suffer

31:58

reputation on professional daily

31:59

as a result of her allegations so

32:02

this is sort of like penalizing heard not for

32:04

her actual words that for the outcome of her words

32:07

that makes sense yeah yeah

32:09

i mean i'm overall sympathetic to supposes

32:11

it out here

32:12

yeah adam davidson tweeted a

32:14

i'm a bit stunned that more journalist are outraged

32:17

and stand by the dep heard verdict

32:19

in addition to being a disaster for domestic be survivors

32:22

it's a disaster for a publications ability to tell

32:24

the truth well

32:26

did she tell the truth i think that matters

32:29

i mean i think there should be civil remedies

32:31

to defamation i am glad

32:33

that the bar to when a case like this is high

32:35

in the us especially against reporters nauseous

32:37

because i am one but because reporters do need

32:39

to because protected from pissing off the wrong people

32:41

but there should be some recourse against

32:44

slander and libel and up in defamation

32:46

in my opinion and much better that a be

32:48

civil be criminal this

32:51

case is now i think davidson

32:53

is being hyperbolic and overstating the

32:55

the like everybody else the importance

32:57

of this one case because this case is

32:59

not a proxy for american culture

33:02

this is a one very bizarre speedy

33:04

use and crowded court case involving

33:06

to very rich and famous people the

33:08

verdict doesn't mean that that women can't talk about

33:11

their abuse and and doesn't mean that men can get

33:13

away with anything it doesn't mean me

33:15

to is dead

33:16

the i think the basic davidson's get iran is that

33:18

if if you're a news outlet and person a

33:20

accuses person be of domestic

33:22

abuse you can always report

33:25

on that if they made the accusation isn't

33:27

for the accusation is always you take certain precautions

33:29

to get the other side's us response

33:32

like reach out to them as i don't think it

33:34

will unless i'm really misuse of adult the

33:36

do it ever be libelous to report that

33:38

a accused be of something as long as you take

33:40

those precautions it's difference when

33:42

is the first person account saying i

33:44

mean to get i'm with you with don't even understand

33:46

how technically that sentence could be libelous

33:49

so we've been we've simply word about the about and buses

33:51

it's different when it's first person to journalists

33:53

are just treated differently and in defamation

33:55

cases

33:55

sometimes a celebrity trial is just a celebrity

33:58

trial you know this doesn't

33:59

how to have some grand lesson in this

34:02

doesn't mean anything for people coming

34:04

behind it businesses a very very specific

34:06

thing i think people want it to mean something

34:08

more than it does because it sort of fun to get out race

34:10

no and ip to try to justify their own obsession

34:12

with like , you

34:14

could see spending patterns hundred

34:17

hours filling your brain was sewage

34:19

from his trial at it was just for nothing

34:21

ancestors were all chaotic

34:24

to lessons of cells circling

34:26

and uncaring son that would be depressing

34:29

is instead this is instead major milestone damage

34:31

to our free speech or whatever it's that would justify

34:33

your weird obsession

34:34

right you can feel good about it because it's not just

34:36

washing the kardashians or whatever young

34:38

bigger than that this isn't about

34:41

, too it's about women's rights and violent

34:43

sexual violence and free free speech

34:46

okay blessing okay to say about this

34:48

i was really shocked by the

34:51

difference between the aftermath

34:53

in the of the that's the verdict the media coverage

34:55

an online conversation this reminded me

34:58

of the rotten tomatoes page

35:00

for like nenad toward the suppose essential

35:02

were like the average person's perception

35:05

of this of this so different from

35:07

the media's

35:08

yeah yeah it there is a lot of that because

35:10

you know when we know what's going on

35:12

in progressive outlets on these sorts of subject and we

35:14

know that for the most parts there's not

35:16

going to be very much descent from the

35:19

as twitter consensus it's

35:21

all tribal it is all tribal anything

35:23

else on the city that's city

35:25

thank god hopefully will never have to talk about as ago

35:28

there was a spin off a mini series or is considered

35:30

analyzes trials

35:31

the money so vague a are cool man

35:33

made pires of the caribbean like

35:35

super super show super

35:37

movie who i like that

35:41

okay so we should probably do housekeeping

35:43

are let's do it most importantly

35:45

and urgently

35:46

we are going to be doing a live show there

35:49

i get it

35:50

we are

35:51

that show takes place as i scroll down

35:53

to that's will be at heterodoxy cadre coverage

35:56

sweaty twenty two in denver this june

35:58

not only this june but by the time you

35:59

this

36:01

the next weekend or do not show on on

36:04

june twelfth of your korea live podcast episode

36:07

for those who haven't heard of it heterodoxy can we just

36:09

lot of work to be higher education space to increase

36:11

viewpoint diversity it's open inquiry

36:13

a constructive this agreement on campuses

36:16

if you like to attend or live show you can register for the conference

36:18

at the i say topics that works although

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i just heard from somebody might be sold out so

36:22

maybe not this was i do the ads they have

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some great speakers lined up including jonathan

36:27

hi john mcwhorter when lowry and other

36:29

leading thinkers in thinkers higher and space were

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you're willing to pay five dollars a month or more great

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36:54

the up and have your have what was your last premium episode

36:57

about

36:57

do this to me ah

37:00

i can it was and why they're so good

37:02

and i we pour our hearts into them and

37:04

by the edwards has spent we don't even know our own

37:06

oil over there

37:07

i river in honor pride month we

37:09

searched for the origin of the term know my

37:11

we did during for awake it

37:13

wasn't during pry into right before

37:15

pride immediately prior to pride

37:18

we area during pride month unbelievably

37:20

offensive during story prior jd

37:23

during prices and during tried wet

37:25

when all the most morally serious

37:27

organizations like the brooklyn nets

37:29

and raytheon are presenting

37:32

the earnest appreciation for gay lesbian since

37:34

lesbian shall be we would have the gall to publish suppose

37:36

publish crazy

37:37

you look at the did you see

37:39

them work the the marines sweet

37:41

as sugar it look like a picture of a helmet

37:43

from what's that movie full

37:46

metal jacket

37:46

oh yeah i get with like fuckin remote

37:49

i do not use of you know think i'll introduce

37:51

you to the bullets and stated a different

37:53

color representing pride before

37:55

his shot into the chest of an afghan civilian

37:58

said

37:59

it'll kill people can also we have a sub reddit

38:02

a i think it's blotchy reported

38:04

that read it dot com thank you chewy a

38:07

we don't know which would emerge etti bar we're

38:09

looking for like a deus ex merchant

38:12

or like someone to pop up and offer

38:14

us a way to sell merch where we won't have to do anything but

38:16

for now it's to logistically complicated i'm

38:19

what else getting

38:20

please rate interview us on i tunes

38:22

and if you are

38:23

if you doesn't exist and

38:24

whatever and if you want to entice her does

38:27

the email blocking put a podcast

38:29

monica katie

38:30

you're from ah door so

38:33

on are it i am yes

38:35

they asked this question was some supper day

38:37

should have you heard of evolution

38:40

only when my parents

38:42

to manage

38:43

the me out of school was cheating

38:45

those lessons as you're

38:47

in cause professor parents hated

38:49

bad staffs

38:51

the stereotype is has

38:53

always been that the left believes in evolution

38:55

the right does it's ah i

38:58

came of age politically or maybe

39:00

little before to visualise could be fierce battles

39:02

over creationism and intelligent design

39:06

the leaders ministry of like of

39:08

a version of evolution did i was one

39:10

less than want to talk about a little bit

39:11

i'm irish be interesting

39:15

basically the way it is goes down is because

39:17

it is so important this is my interpretation

39:20

people might disagree and i'm happy to hear from

39:22

you if you do

39:23

it's become very important to acknowledge not

39:26

that

39:27

like a trans woman is someone who's biological

39:29

sciences mail but identifies as a see now that

39:31

was the old understand it's the new understanding

39:34

is that if you say you're a woman you are literally

39:36

a woman or procedure manager literally mans

39:39

including biologically i mean do think i'm overstating

39:41

that know people say this

39:43

the an hour and non binary people to

39:45

if you see yourself library here literally

39:48

not mail

39:48

be around you're not male or female

39:51

yeah and and yet large i

39:53

i know not everyone thinks is this is literally

39:56

this is i think the orthodox

39:58

belief among many this you will definitely

40:01

not see

40:02

the high profile progresses in positions

40:05

of with platforms are power who

40:07

will cool deny this will argue otherwise

40:10

and and i think it's lead to some really weird

40:12

attempts to the

40:14

night the nature of have sex

40:16

of biological sex of the seen that is very

40:18

important to all humans and that causes neatly

40:21

into two categories

40:22

they didn't notice i pointed to humans

40:24

this is why it bothers me in part because

40:26

it's humans are mammals like this

40:29

they was not interrupt out

40:31

the nile that humans are

40:33

animals and are mammals and there's something

40:35

almost religious about that to me as the

40:37

we are we are separate from the animal kingdom

40:40

when i found out as a mammal i was so

40:42

surprise i jerked up and knocked my

40:44

cd lamp miles assessment

40:47

, at parsons but always gotta

40:49

swansea should note is that someone is predated

40:52

the it's ah

40:54

hands down are in college in

40:56

two thousand and five or two thousand says i was in a

40:58

lit theory seminars

41:00

you would a very good friend hobby see in denver amazon

41:02

gcs ah

41:04

then i remember i believe of the only person the

41:06

seminars who thought that

41:08

men and women were differences agreed terms of

41:10

sports it's everyone else thought this

41:12

was socialist rock to this was two thousand and five

41:14

it had nothing to tell that is so

41:16

he was it was at least or friends will lead

41:18

back

41:19

how do people ever played sports before

41:21

they didn't recall it lit theory seven are some

41:23

now together

41:26

huge athletes slow so

41:28

i hadn't heard that before but as i do like really

41:30

of friends themselves beasley

41:32

just want to go through to example

41:35

this i saw i've seen in in may

41:37

add that really bugs me

41:39

it's one of there was an article in sapiens

41:41

this is a big anthropology magazine

41:43

ah i guess in fantasies

41:46

in fantasies anthropologists the headline

41:48

biological science rejects

41:50

the sex binary and that's good for humanity

41:54

three little bit from the tops at the recent

41:56

us supreme court confirmation hearings for to

41:59

taji brown jackie

41:59

senator marsha blackburn triggered

42:02

controversy when she as jackson's define

42:04

the word woman as suggested decline

42:06

several republican congress double sided with definitions

42:08

for women that ranged from dubious to saw

42:10

students including quotes the weaker

42:13

sites quote someone who has a

42:15

uterus and quote x chromosomes

42:17

know tally wax the

42:20

wagons it's so

42:22

this idea that these definitions range

42:24

from dubious society

42:26

like obviously it's just such a straw

42:28

man if he defied women as the weaker

42:31

sex in later added

42:33

a you know your criticized like

42:35

obviously that sort of bullshit but it's also in

42:37

terms of physical strength

42:39

that's true women are weaker than men similarly

42:41

just

42:41

the do you think that if is shove a baby

42:44

out of your vagina and you know that the strength that as a

42:46

city that doing it is

42:47

in my great yeah now i could not

42:49

nurture new ice i can only harm

42:51

people are the others it is like sex

42:54

chromosomes know tally wacker is actually

42:56

a pretty good definition for wouldn't every time i logically

42:58

like what what's wrong with that i mean

43:01

i think it works so digital along

43:03

lot of articles attempting to like complicate

43:05

or problem with ties biological sex

43:07

and and it's become like a bit of these

43:09

liberals it's a sin or even

43:12

a moral panic at this moment let

43:14

me do a are another quote from his second

43:16

articles of course there are clear bodily

43:19

differences in capacities to give birth

43:21

and lactase thank you for a daughter that's

43:23

oh actually okay okay this is

43:25

also been males can lactate

43:28

i've never even noticed as an urban legend i've never

43:30

checked this

43:30

it's not it's not my dad so he tired

43:33

of listening

43:33

the like hated an hour

43:35

the word in in his classes

43:37

he would tell his melt his students that have any

43:39

males can make themselves lox a on but

43:41

in this mess logan automatic a and of the getting

43:43

them actually did it but i did look into

43:45

that

43:46

how many title neither

43:48

butcher bay it is very very good

43:50

that he is no longer teaching things have shifted

43:52

in a way that i he was a very very popular teacher

43:54

i think if i if he were on campus know things have a difference

43:57

but i actually look into this at one point in their

43:59

dot many cases of males lactating after

44:01

for instance moments of extreme stress

44:04

like some physical stress like after the holocaust

44:07

there was this is jones's this

44:09

rash of of i don't know if it was holocaust

44:11

survivors are prisoners of war or lactating

44:14

hormones are fucking weird but yes men males

44:16

can lactate end and there are at

44:18

this describes lot of people out like

44:20

the stranger for instance a couple years ago they

44:23

publish an article a trans

44:25

woman her partner gave

44:27

birth and she breastfed you know you

44:29

know you to take some sort

44:30

hormone hormone and will they are on hormones

44:32

anyway but she actually breastfed the

44:34

child bloody of the not like article

44:38

iran and of a little last

44:40

thing about lactation because i find assassinating

44:43

i has friends to lesbian

44:45

friends who adopted a baby there

44:48

and one of them percent

44:49

well yeah to kid com is pretty easy

44:52

to stimulate it right if you're a woman

44:53

while you take hormones and then you do like

44:55

be palmer something like that but she was like

44:57

he was very surprising to me that she was i've

44:59

watched her breast feed her child that she had not

45:01

given birth to anyway variants

45:03

so yeah we can continue statements

45:06

ah to be set up from the summer of course

45:08

are clear bodily differences in capacities to give

45:11

birth in lactate and ranges of patterns in

45:13

the development distribution of body size strength

45:15

and myriad other processes but such patterns

45:17

are mostly overlapping and only a few

45:19

are distributed in clear are functional

45:22

dichotomies only

45:24

a few are distributed in also like

45:26

a functional that sodomy i guess he means something

45:28

worth like either you have one thing or the other

45:31

thing but

45:32

that's like a big part of what sex is is

45:34

we have entirely different organs from the other sexiness

45:37

it a few different cases so i i don't really

45:39

know what this means it it seems a

45:41

little bit the rarely butts numerous

45:43

studies have found that the differences between adult

45:45

men and women are overhyped and largely influenced

45:48

by the dynamics of biology and culture

45:50

humans are nature nurture all

45:52

a fusion of nature and nurture there's

45:55

like too much bullshit going

45:57

on here to even get into most of it but they're

45:59

just like new the studies hi this is a huge

46:01

oversimplification because

46:03

everywhere you go you find the same strength differences

46:06

the same athletic differences in

46:08

the best evidence we has suggests

46:10

that in more gender equitable places

46:13

like scandinavia male and female interest

46:15

difference marks which means that even if you

46:17

remove cultural pressure for whites you

46:19

know men are engineers women are teachers

46:22

there are some average level or differences

46:24

in interest that are sort of hard to account for

46:26

unless you acknowledge biology's part of this

46:29

ah so others just use just gloss

46:31

over up pretty complicated as they could be like

46:33

our nature nurture all it's both it's like no

46:35

one's denying this but there there's clearly

46:37

differences you can clearly divide people in the male

46:39

or female which is the argument his argue against

46:42

this year's a particularly bad parts

46:44

i think proves i like just how little thought

46:46

has done interests in fact of the hundred

46:48

forty million babies born last year at

46:50

least two hundred eighty thousand did not fit

46:52

into a clear penis vs lay be a model

46:54

of sex determination it's genitals

46:56

hormone levels and chromosomes are not reliable

46:59

determinants of sets there are for example

47:01

people with x y chromosomes her female characters

47:03

a steep with ambiguous genitalia us and

47:06

women with testosterone levels outside the typical

47:08

quote female range

47:10

usually so letter to the editor

47:13

it's , of this fairly well known disputes and around

47:15

the work of ancestors sterling and and

47:17

she's a sex researchers and

47:19

i see had claimed that they replied

47:22

something like one point seven percent of people are

47:24

intersects this letter to the editor

47:27

i was like now as you look at people are

47:29

actually intersects where there's like actual

47:31

ambiguity over whether they're male or female

47:33

the percentage of humans who meet those criteria

47:35

or something like zero point zero one

47:38

eight percent so am i

47:40

guess in seems have come up with this two hundred eighty thousand

47:43

estimates trying to

47:45

get that zero point o h o

47:47

one eight percent think he's off by order

47:49

of magnitude i think he meant twenty eight thousand

47:52

babies are born a year in the whole country

47:54

that are truly intersects but either

47:56

way even if it's point two percent of babies

47:59

which is he saw as

47:59

that's way too big that would mean that

48:02

sex is almost entirely clear cut like

48:04

totally agree that if it's ninety nine point

48:06

eight percent of people any done this is probably

48:08

underestimates if ninety nine

48:10

point eight percent of people are male or female

48:13

does not mean were mostly sexually dimorphic

48:15

were mostly male or female

48:16

yeah this is heather hiring

48:19

i think has made this ah

48:21

made this operation she said that this

48:24

idea that sex is a spectrum

48:26

the it's sort of analogous to saying that

48:29

humans are not

48:31

by pedals

48:32

because some people don't have to

48:34

legs

48:35

yeah yeah it it it's that level

48:38

of reasoning so i dance the best

48:40

estimate we have is not our desire justin's

48:42

overestimate it's it's not

48:44

about ninety nine point

48:47

nine eight percent of

48:49

people are not in are such their male or female

48:51

so

48:53

you know the eight this is just an attempt again

48:55

to pretend this is a very muddled and confusing

48:57

that's that's not to say there aren't very

49:00

interesting examples of the boundaries were

49:02

such gets fuzzy it's caster semenya

49:04

other you know the african runner who was

49:06

or is bad because he's

49:08

she looks like a woman but she didn't look like

49:10

a doesn't have she was pretty

49:12

large yes

49:14

i think it or to i think it it's she has

49:16

a vagina or what looks like a vagina i think if

49:18

you look at her face

49:19

the would say she looked like a man

49:21

the of internal has these though she's technically mail

49:23

yeah i'm right so that that's

49:25

the case will it's just this is it no one's ever did

49:27

either arts intersex people or

49:30

that are are interesting debates be had

49:32

over these sort of borderlands between sex

49:34

but a nice

49:35

interviewed se but we also we talk about this

49:37

or less cream of episode but the word intersects

49:39

is not against it's sort of a misnomer

49:42

the term that people use now is dst

49:44

is heard differences of sexual development because intersects

49:47

makes it sound like you are literally in them at all

49:49

which is

49:50

that's not actually what does is yeah i mean look

49:53

i think the point is point cj

49:55

solid estimate for the true rate of votes

49:57

were there's some ambiguity of whether they're male or female

49:59

again zero point zero

50:02

one eight ninety nine point

50:04

nine eight percent of people are male or

50:06

female were sexually dimorphic

50:08

it would be very weird evolutionarily if

50:10

we were so that article

50:12

in sapiens which is like an important anthropology magazine

50:15

was one example another was

50:17

this

50:18

crazy tweet storm by surrey backer

50:21

who is a i a processor it's

50:23

she was ready for the twitter account at real

50:25

scientists which bills itself as

50:28

quote real science from real scientists

50:30

writers communicators artists inclinations

50:32

scab more than ninety thousand followers

50:35

her tweets was basically was repeat of

50:37

repeat different one she wrote in march let me just read

50:39

just read from the new version

50:42

i want to address a narrative that we

50:44

see around women sports and inclusions

50:46

particularly from those who seek to school trans

50:48

women and women with secretaries in some women sports

50:51

and how this narrative is part of a bigger pattern

50:53

that functions to keep women small i've

50:55

been hearing more frequently the narrative that women

50:57

sport apparently this as a quote protected

51:00

category and quotes so that women

51:02

ten wins because on this account without

51:04

it no woman will ever win again

51:06

the woman completes the women can compete

51:08

not your so women can win well

51:11

like you think any like if is there wasn't a separate

51:13

category think any woman will get chosen for the football

51:15

team or the baseball team or the soccer team

51:17

me personally subliminal if is it that's always

51:19

the as year but i guess this is a not

51:21

the reason why women sports exists as a category

51:23

and be it is not true that no woman will

51:25

ever win against this narrative is profoundly

51:28

paternalistic and keeps women small let's

51:30

unpack this little a women sport

51:32

exists as a category because the dominance

51:34

of men athletes was threatened by women

51:37

competing we see this over and over

51:39

again in the history of sports katie what

51:41

are you sick of the idea that women sports exists

51:43

as a category not as women need it to

51:45

be able to compete but because they would otherwise

51:47

dominant male athletes and male athletes

51:49

would threaten my that does any sense yeah this

51:51

is like

51:52

we cannot leave at one point in my life

51:55

they i was one of the top

51:57

freestyle kayakers

51:59

for under

51:59

in women

52:01

in the country they

52:03

didn't happened over and over again it was immensely

52:05

getting a

52:06

you had never been in about before

52:09

to paddle for six months and beat me

52:11

to see the living in the plot by those

52:13

calling my own skill levels that a big part of it

52:15

was fragrances

52:18

muscle mass is crazy steam supply

52:21

any examples for this thesis

52:23

it's like what a long tweet stores where it appears

52:25

to be littered with examples but they're really weird

52:27

so what is us figure skating

52:29

in the year ninety know to

52:32

one problem is that that's one hundred years ago so

52:34

not really applicable to the present situation

52:37

for

52:37

programming i i think there are probably some

52:39

sports where women do naturally

52:41

have natural advantages over men figure

52:43

skating might be one of them are not sure

52:46

that that's true at like floating i that

52:48

floating

52:48

well as i look i looked into

52:51

i as much as ten minutes which is a the

52:53

the sex differences in in figure skating

52:55

and as it is a little bit complicated because it's

52:57

is an individual sport greed is in a fairly

52:59

subjective way and men and women to sort of

53:01

do it very differently because if such different

53:04

container pretty differently at least two they are very different

53:06

bodies it's better just much

53:08

bigger there's also this whole they were like it's you

53:10

would you go through puberty your body changes

53:12

as a woman apparently that like me

53:14

you sort of have to relearn does it was interesting

53:16

but it's just figure skating is not a great

53:18

example i'm in part because as an individual

53:20

sports another example involves

53:23

jackie mitchell she was a seventeen

53:25

year olds who supposedly struck out babe

53:27

ruth and lou gehrig obviously to the best hitters

53:29

ever it's back to back in nineteen thirty

53:31

one so dense is going back almost a century

53:34

for these examples is is true

53:35

did a seventy year old actually strike them out

53:37

it it's

53:38

really hard to say that there's some controversy

53:41

over whether this really happy or whether

53:43

was a stunt there was addressing smithsonian

53:45

write ups

53:47

it's hard to say and she

53:49

has even if it wasn't her to say this is

53:51

one example is one example you see

53:53

seats may have the site is unique

53:55

sinking fast ball that could be hard to set

53:58

out to buy one of the accounts his neighbors like

53:59

one of the pitches by like a foot which you don't do

54:02

as a professional hit or it's unless you are badly

54:04

school but even if it did happen that's

54:07

what to give up from ninety thirty one the site is

54:09

major league baseball has in open to

54:11

female players for decades as

54:13

have the other pro sports leagues very ib

54:15

this this is sort of would have done yet there's there's no

54:17

women

54:19

had entered the league they they haven't

54:21

because i think

54:23

some people try to argue that there was like discrimination

54:25

but but if a woman being major

54:27

league baseball or the mba or the nfl

54:30

that would be the biggest media story

54:32

of the decade it would it would open

54:34

up so much endorsement money

54:36

so much riches such readings is

54:39

everyone would want it to happen

54:43

the the league's would love to have a female player

54:45

like it would be a bonanza us but the reason

54:47

it hasn't happened is because not

54:50

just at a lead levels but at the high school level

54:52

the differences between men and women make it really

54:54

hard for women to compete with

54:56

that he didn't want to bring up was is this some young

54:58

woman a madison birds and in twenty

55:00

twenty there was photo

55:02

of her was video of her teaching of fifty

55:04

five yard field goal with it on an empty

55:07

football field sixty five yards is like

55:09

even nfl tickers can't do that

55:11

consistently and game conditions and

55:13

skill it's a big deal it's a very long feel go

55:15

and the results excitement the seaside town

55:17

as you college which is not a

55:20

major football powerhouse but it's like

55:22

you know and suitably football and

55:24

sure enough i checked after this wave of like

55:27

excitement of people oh my god she could really

55:29

competes i'd i'd sector stats

55:31

and this woman who they obviously thought

55:33

she was good enough to play they they gave her the

55:35

slots in in her

55:37

time in college she stood for extra points

55:40

which are to seize very short field goals that

55:42

light up a lot of high school teachers could

55:44

take a college extra point and she

55:46

made i'll forward is great but but clearly they

55:48

don't feel confident the put on the fields which had the real

55:51

kick and game conditions and you

55:54

know it's just it's just there are these

55:56

differences and the what and nord me

55:58

about the sweet storm is it really did

56:00

like so many these arguments undermine the case

56:02

for women's sports women would not be

56:04

able to compete at these levels if they had to compete with

56:06

man and so yeah if you buy

56:09

surrey backers are admit this is no real reason for

56:11

women's league and in fact women sweet bids were

56:13

set up because men are

56:15

thread by women which is just ridiculous

56:17

that's what that's what either

56:19

oh right okay i think that there

56:21

are

56:22

like i played i played little league i was an obvious

56:24

like be no right theater again

56:26

second string not good

56:28

the girl i'm in little league team

56:29

there are some

56:32

for sure some so there can be some

56:34

awkward as the same thing when i was kayaking

56:36

i was the only under eighteen girl

56:38

who was doing it i did this summer

56:40

trip where i drove across the country and ads

56:42

passenger van with fifteen teenage

56:45

boys like there are

56:47

obviously there were some difficulty their

56:50

their it can be hard to be the only

56:52

girls in an environment

56:54

for sure but that doesn't negate

56:56

the fact that they're already

56:58

says will differences as well so i think both

57:01

things can be true but she is completely ignoring

57:03

the actual physical differences and so i

57:05

have a friend to

57:06

she was the first girl in

57:08

the in the little league world series and and

57:10

i think for thirteen year olds and

57:13

she was a catcher i believe this is

57:15

in the nineties

57:17

i just googled her and

57:19

one else in this article came up from a from

57:21

a local paper and like us their names but

57:24

here's a quote from one of her teammates they

57:26

never been on a team with a girl before and i

57:28

was

57:28

to sure

57:30

obviously and this is in the nineties of things

57:32

might have changed so obviously like their

57:35

it can be difficult to be a girl in an all male of

57:37

orbit

57:37

this girl is now a man citrix

57:40

this is still at is your things

57:43

first girl little league world series

57:44

it is now simply guy and

57:47

, think there's so much pressure he uttered out

57:49

in for mean girls at some nasty

57:51

i see yeah yeah i

57:53

see your i shouldn't under tower how

57:55

unpleasant experience would be to would a woman in woman male

57:57

dominated space dominated think this i think for a lot of it like this

57:59

the arguments like when when computer programming

58:02

was on an obama to i shouldn't discount

58:04

but i think that a small fraction of the reason

58:06

out there are more women and say the

58:08

n b a

58:09

yes yes that's my

58:11

point is anybody who watches the way

58:13

the and be a markets and sell for example

58:16

you're crazy if you don't think the i'd be a wooded

58:18

wouldn't at the level of like the

58:20

people who run it's embrace

58:22

a female player which there will i do nothing to ever

58:24

be would she have issues in the locker room of course

58:27

you would like talk to eat and strauss about

58:29

what what and be a locker rooms or i it's absolutely

58:31

that's a factor but later

58:32

never been to wmd again

58:33

i did as you

58:35

are one

58:36

it is a a go to

58:38

a w n b a game and

58:40

you will see why women don't

58:42

in the in the a i don't want to be a dick but

58:44

you could you can tell there's it's sorry

58:46

but like op size

58:48

i mean part of this is like you good at w

58:50

any a could be more interesting i think like

58:52

as this is

58:53

coming up may it may impact on the show before

58:55

they'll if they allowed madison

58:56

if they lowered the if they lowered the who

58:58

by two feet

59:00

they made it to court shorter and they

59:02

lords

59:02

they said i would and where he can have it like a new the

59:04

that is just a wouldn't it wouldn't be the same

59:06

he would look

59:07

childish sort of snow

59:08

oh eat women should have equipment

59:11

that fits their bodies

59:12

the reasons what i was gonna say that a

59:14

good high school teams could

59:16

be the women's national basketball team similarly

59:19

it's similarly dallas our team

59:21

of under fifteen boys beat the us women's

59:23

soccer team which is the best in the world

59:25

the soccer is not apparently a

59:28

as is not super popular among women

59:30

sports and most

59:30

the world it's sort of an american thing i didn't realize

59:33

that until i talk to him british guy recently news

59:35

like echo something soccer just above me the

59:37

point is you're you're just ask yourselves would be required

59:39

if you're going to pretend that all this isn't the case

59:41

that there aren't huge differences are stars

59:44

sections i apparently i'm some

59:46

forms of rivalry women can

59:48

be men consistently or at least the best woman

59:50

the that's not it yeah but that's not a special

59:52

guest see the sport that's where

59:54

strength as

59:55

well but up but also it's it's certain

59:58

types of long distance swimming and maybe you've been

1:00:00

running i think with some the running they've closed the gap

1:00:02

but like it's just it's

1:00:05

crazy that this

1:00:07

is what i mean when i say comes across as evolution

1:00:09

denialism that we're not dimorphic in there

1:00:11

aren't these major physical differences at

1:00:14

least post puberty it's just it's such

1:00:16

a losing battle

1:00:16

we can we it on us

1:00:18

it's not like you can't pick the transition out of the lineup

1:00:21

yeah i mean i did this

1:00:23

sort of gets to so matt walsh

1:00:25

uses like right we'd rather rouser rather has

1:00:27

he has documentary out called what is

1:00:29

a it's a what is a woman right

1:00:32

and this is where i just think we're

1:00:34

just we're digging ourselves into such a dumb hole where

1:00:36

we can get owned by the lights of matt walsh there

1:00:38

was a clip he posted where he sort

1:00:41

of a day goes a could you post the way went to africa

1:00:43

is with african tribesmen asking them basically

1:00:46

it's about gender identity

1:00:48

ideology and

1:00:50

the whole like , residuals for the

1:00:52

whole frame it as he writes while the left

1:00:54

says indigenous people are more sophisticated

1:00:58

on gender saw somebody go as somebody

1:00:59

there are three try where they were they practice

1:01:02

female genital mutilation

1:01:03

i hesitated to decide

1:01:06

that he has a commitment to the bit where he would fly

1:01:08

to africa to a remote tribe to trigger

1:01:10

the libs but still gets there and of course

1:01:12

as anyone should have told you if you ask

1:01:14

remote african tribes people about circuits

1:01:17

twenty twenty two liberal mores on sex

1:01:19

and gender they disagree with that completely this

1:01:21

is always a whole like these these this whole

1:01:23

noble savage so has always been so stupid

1:01:25

and said yourself because he said we

1:01:27

have that way but cities that they have like third

1:01:29

such as and stuff like that it's a very different

1:01:32

version from what we have in the states is not

1:01:34

lights describes it isn't like yes i'm

1:01:36

gonna let my two year old decide what they are like what

1:01:38

they actually died a girl so they're not a four man

1:01:40

it's more closer to that

1:01:41

i hate to say i did this is

1:01:43

a movie does look funny i've been trying to get a screener

1:01:46

because you have to pay like twelve dollars to watch

1:01:48

it at the daily wire in a conflict of the daily

1:01:50

wire twelve dollars on the

1:01:52

i've been try to find a screener so

1:01:54

, hopefully we'll get it may we can talk about

1:01:56

it with a little bit i'm a little bit more knowledge

1:01:59

there is

1:01:59

part of sit there a lot eclipse been floating around

1:02:02

and he does he goes and he taught cities to

1:02:04

the liberals and says basically like what

1:02:06

is what woman and they just can't

1:02:09

answer the question

1:02:10

that dude he's out the i think he's a the

1:02:12

women's march and he's or a women's my sassy

1:02:14

what's a woman they want answers to sit

1:02:16

would i i think someone with a pussy hat on

1:02:18

his his city was like a high level

1:02:20

academic i think at brown university

1:02:22

they won't answer is just what

1:02:25

why are we inflicting this on ourselves

1:02:27

what does this game that someone like matt

1:02:29

waltz can so easily make us

1:02:31

look stupid i what is

1:02:34

it is such a weird rabbit hole

1:02:36

that a lot of progress is have gone down and i don't

1:02:38

think it really wins us anything how many people

1:02:41

have been to vid sats oh yeah actually

1:02:43

humans are sexually dimorphic evolutions

1:02:45

as has been understood as far as is actually

1:02:47

subverted at a or as you're just like weird

1:02:50

robotic types who will say whatever they're

1:02:52

supposed to say saying it the

1:02:54

yeah i just i found this to be so demoralized

1:02:56

years ago and for years now i think it's getting worse

1:02:59

but it's the site as if we're at a point where

1:03:02

there's the problem is

1:03:05

people will watch the match was documentary

1:03:07

and because of tribal influences they won't interpreted

1:03:10

as was how easily he is humiliating

1:03:12

our fellow liberals those are still ickes a bigot

1:03:14

why not both my can he be the

1:03:16

you can be bought i would i tweeted the

1:03:18

been on by marry someone with a ukrainian

1:03:21

flight in there's a quote retweeted me

1:03:23

and said that i'm matt ,

1:03:25

exploited those tribes people people

1:03:29

is as see where there are

1:03:31

some classes they answered so as so

1:03:34

see ever stressing definitions

1:03:36

of everything doing anything else on

1:03:39

this anything that that race

1:03:41

this is it was reported as always

1:03:43

we produce with help from crazy would reinstate

1:03:45

you trace i'm jesse singal and

1:03:47

remember a podcast there is someone

1:03:49

who identifies as apart chester

1:03:52

in haiti herzog and also remember the amber

1:03:54

heard verdict sends a message to black women everywhere

1:03:56

and that message is don't date johnny