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[Music] Tanner Iskra: Oh, let's get it. Monday, August 30th, 2021. Borne the Battle, brought to you by the US Department of Veterans Affairs. The podcast that focuses on inspiring Veteran stories and puts a highlight on important resources, offices, and benefits for our Veterans. I'm your host, Marine Corps Veteran Tanner Iskra. However you listen to this podcast, be it Apple Podcast, Spotify, iTunes, iHeartRadio, the player inside the blog, hope you're having a great week outside of podcast land. I usually record these earlier in the week, I felt like I had to come back this week and re-record this one, part of this one a little bit. If you’re a Marine, if you’re in the Navy, if you’re in the military, not the greatest of weeks actually. Last week was a tough one. Thinking about the Marines and the sailor that we lost last week. May their families find comfort knowing that they were doing a duty to serve other people and to save lives and may we all think about them during this time. And may we never, never forget. Personally, if this is still getting at you, or getting to you, talk to a friend, man of faith, chaplin, talk to someone. You know, VA also has a lot of resources from Vet Centers to mental health services to the Veterans Crisis Line. Worst thing you can do is bury it, let it eat at you. Talk to someone, get it out there, and know you’re not alone. And as always, I’m, you know, we have an email here too at the podcast, [email protected]. Here for ya. Personally, I was recently welcomed back to my first alumni- Alumni. I'm the alumni, right? My first- my first school, the Defense Information School, the DOD’s Defense Information School, to speak at the 2021 DINFOS social media forum. Did a talk on planning a podcast from a government perspective. Right. You know, it was the first time in my life that over 1000 people signed up to, I don't know, see me do anything. Hope I shared some information that others can take back to their respective communication shops, whatever it be would be- a combat camera in in the DOD, be it a public affairs shop in the FBI, what have you. Wanna thank Kuande Hall, Sterling McKinley, and their team for allowing me to speak on a topic that I'm very passionate about. And if you're listening to this podcast for the first time because of that forum, welcome to the show. Two reviews came in from Apple Podcast. First one is from Photomanjosh, says five stars. “Great job. Wanted to provide a review for your great podcast. I enjoy your topics, guests and outreach to our amazing Veterans, truly exceptional and inspiring content. I did not serve in uniform, but I'm serving our Vets as an employee of VA. Keep up the great work.” I appreciate the review, Photomanjosh. And now if you work for VA, brother hit me up on the emails. I'm in the global. Second one is from V0V10. I don't know how to pronounce that. V0V10. Well it’s a zero though. I don't know. V0V10 had a Charlie Sheen reference, says five stars. “Winning. Hi Tanner. You made me laugh out loud when I hear you laugh. The show relaxes me when I hear other Veterans stories. The brotherhood and sisterhood in the military is very special.” Agreed. “And this show brings us closer together. Information learned here is very valuable for Veterans to hear what is available for them. Keep up the good work.” Appreciate the write-in, V0V10. Love to laugh, who doesn't. You must be listening to the bonus content on the back of some of these episodes. And if you are, congratulations. You already know I'm looking for that next review. If you haven't yet, please consider writing one for Borne the Battle on Apple Podcasts. Doing so does help us climb higher in the algorithms, giving more Veterans a better opportunity to discover and listen to the interviews, our Benefits Breakdown episodes, so they get to know some of the programs and resources within VA. We break it all down. And they learn what's in the news release. It's also the best way for me to communicate with you and respond to you, and all of that. Speaking of news releases, we've got two this week. Been getting two a week. Hey, you know, hey VA. That is consistent. It is a consistent, good pace for me. No complaints. First one says, “For immediate release.” It says, “As a follow-up to National Financial Awareness Day, August 14th,” didn't know that was a thing, “the Department of Veterans Affairs is launching an awareness campaign to inform elderly wartime Veterans and their families of their lesser known pension, funeral, burial and survivor benefits. The following benefits are available through VA's Pension and Fiduciary Service for use in planning and preparing for their future.” And I'm just going to run down some of these pretty quickly here. So the first one is a “VA pension as payable to wartime Veterans who are permanently and totally disabled due to non-service connected disabilities or who are age 65 years or older, who meet certain income and net worth limits. A special monthly pension is an additional benefit for Veterans in receipt of pension who are housebound and require the aid and attendance of another person to help them with their daily activities, such as eating, bathing, dressing, et cetera, or have very limited eyesight or require nursing home care. For surviving spouses, there are two types of Pension and Fiduciary Service offers. Survivor's pension provides monthly payments to qualifying surviving spouses and unmarried dependent children of wartime Veterans who meet certain income and net worth limits. Special monthly pension is also available to surviving spouses who are housebound or require the aid and attendance of another pension. Dependency and indemnity is available to dependents and parents, and generally is not based on income and assets, except the income limits applied to parents. That is a monthly monetary benefit paid to a surviving spouse, child, or parent of a Veteran who died from a service related injury or illness, or when on active duty service member dies in the line of duty. Special monthly dependency and indemnity compensation is also available to surviving spouses who are housebound or require the aid and attendance of another person, just like the last one. Also a surviving spouse of a Veteran who served on a Blue Water Navy vessel offshore, or the Republic of Vietnam, were on another US Navy or Coast Guard ship operating in the coastal waterways of Vietnam between January 9th, 1962, and May 7th, 1975.” And we have a full Benefits Breakdown on Blue Water Navy. “They also may be eligible for DIC benefits, even if they were previously denied.” Two more. “VA funeral and burial benefits are also available for both service-related and non-service related deaths. New regulations allow a flat rate burial and plot or interment allowance with decreased paperwork and maximum payment permitted by law.” And finally, “For those interested in burial benefits, such as a Presidential Memorial Certificate, burial flag, headstone or marker, the National Cemetery Administration has information about pre-need eligibility.” It goes on, it says, “Many vulnerable senior wartime Veterans are targeted with misinformation. In many cases. This is because they are not fully aware of their benefits, which increases the chances of them being taken advantage of, or defrauded. Fact sheets are available to assist Veterans with limited resources, pension eligibility information, has details on how Veterans and their families can get help filing their claim for free. Now, the URLs for the fact sheets and pension eligibility, they're pretty atrocious for me to repeat. They’re long, and include characters that I don't even know what to call them- ampersands and whatnot. So like always the link to this news release is in the show notes of this episode. And it will also be in this episode’s blog on blogs.va.gov [Link: www.blogs.va.gov]. All right. Next one says, “For immediate release, the Department of Veterans Affairs will begin awarding $106.4 million in grants starting September 30th to more than 200 community organizations under VA's Grant and Per Diem Program. GPD provides funding to community organizations that provide transitional housing and supportive services for Veterans at risk of, or experiencing homelessness, and aims to help them achieve residential stability, increased skill levels, and income and obtain greater self-determination. VA will award three different types of grants to address the unique needs of Veterans who are experiencing or at risk of homelessness.” And I'll run down those real quick. First one is “Capital grants, which will provide funding for community organizations to build or renovate facilities that serve Veterans experiencing homelessness and are authorized through the Coronavirus Aid Relief and Economic Security Act established in 2020. VA awarded 60 capital grants totaling, approximately $64.2 million to provide,” and I'm assuming maintain, “over 1400 new beds over the course of a year and a half to two years. Next one is the “Case management grants. They will be used to support case managers who provide services to help Veterans maintain self-sufficiency and housing stability. A total of over 120 grants to organizations are awarded to support over 150 case managers totaling about $28.4 million over two years.” And finally, “The special needs grants will provide funding for community organizations that help Veterans experiencing homelessness with special needs, such as women Veterans, those with chronic mental illness and those who care for minor dependents. A total of 26 grants to organizations will be awarded to over 200 beds totaling about $23.75 million over three years. For the complete list of GPD grantees and nonprofit organizations visit www.va.gov/homeless/GPD.asp [Link: www.va.gov/homeless/GPD.asp].” All right, this week's interview is a bit of a treat for moi. I'm a bit of a gamer, not so much time for it now, but there was a time that gaming was my hobby. Now it is one of my hobbies, one of my outlets. And I used to play this game series. You may have heard of it. Elder Scrolls. I played Morrowind in Iraq, Skyrim in Syracuse and Elder Scrolls Online when I initially got out. Pretty hardcore for a couple of years. Well imagine my chagrin and I hope I'm using that word in the right context. I don't even know. I'm just rolling with it. Well, imagine again, imagine my chagrin, when I learned that there was a Veteran involved in the production of Elder Scrolls Online, which by the way is also one of the largest, massive, multiplayer onlines in the world. Army Veteran Tommy Davis, a former infantry soldier turned quality assurance tester for ZeniMax Media and Elder Scrolls Online. Enjoy. [Music] Tanner Iskra (TI): Thomas Davis, do you go by Tommy or Thomas? Tommy Davis (TD): Tommy. (TI): Well, welcome to Borne the Battle man. (TD): Nice to be here. (TI): You know, you started quality assurance testing, game testing. A game that I personally had a healthy addiction to circa 2016, 2017. Man, I was in a major Guild. I hardly ever played the game in groups though. I was, I was mostly just a, a single player player playing for the story. But I was a beast in the trading game man. (TD): Oh wow, you are more talented than me. (TI): Well, I was a level 10 character, so it's not like I played the game that much, but I had the most expensive items, for like the top players and the most expensive materials, the items that craft certain armor styles. I was like, what you need? And they were like, “How you a level 10 that has all this?” I was like, “Bro, don't worry about this. Do you want this or that?” (TD): Wow. You became the supply guy. (TI): Yeah, exactly, I’m the supply. That was before they even incorporated the chat function. We'd hold open air, we'd hold open air auctions in Daggerfall. It was a good, it was a good time. It was a good time. (TD): I like Daggerfall. (TI): Exactly. The is the starter spot, the starter spot. No time for that game anymore though. It's like, you always have to stay on top of it. (TD): Oh, well, it's a good time to jump in now. They've been doing a lot of work on it and, like you, I played a while ago. And then, since I started working at ZeniMax Online Studios, I've been playing a lot more with obviously, and they've been doing some really incredible things. I've been really fortunate to be able to work on this project, especially during the past year, in the pandemic. So, when I first started, we were, they were introducing dragons and the land of Elsweyr. And that's spelled E-L-S-W-E-Y-R. And it was really cool because a huge group fight. There is a ton of people there. And these dragons are just coming in and whooping on you. And it was a really cool experience. (TI): I had no idea dragons were even there and the, in the game yet. That's awesome. (TD): Yeah. So, now there's dragons in the game. And, I got my first credit on Elder Scrolls, online Greymoor, and I'm really proud of that because that was, the first time you could go to, Skyrim Tamriel and you go, I forget the name of the place. Now, there was a, of a location and Elder scrolls in Skyrim. It's like on a land bridge, overseeing the water and solitude. There we go. Solitude. So, you can go to solitude, but this time, instead of doing a single player, you can go there with your Guild, with all your friends and your teammates that you play with. And it was really cool to see that happen. And, and the player reactions to it were really great. And fans and the elder scrolls online community are very passionate and very involved with the game. (TI): We, we've got a Veteran. I talked to you a lot. She's one of the, she's a streamer that streams, Elder Scrolls, Dova, Dova. She's going to be, she's going to hit me and be like, “Why didn't you know, my real name?” But yeah. Dova she's she does. All right. Before we get too deep in that hole, whole area, everyone's probably listening to like, “What the hell are they talking about?” First question, you know, I want to go way back. Let's go way back. Were you always a gamer even before the military? And what games did you grow up? (TD): Yeah. always lifelong gamer. I grew up—at first, I didn't have a video game system and I would just go to friend's houses and play. And I, I remember the first experience I had playing a video game. I'd gone to my friend's apartment. I was maybe four and he had a Nintendo entertainment system and a power glove. He was one of the rare few. He was the only person I've ever met that actually had one. And so, I got to play a glove. I play a game with a power glove, and that was just the most mind-blowing thing I'd ever experienced at four years old, of course. But ever since then, I had just been drawn to that. So, I ended up getting a Nintendo entertainment system at some point, Sega Genesis and just all the way up through till now. I always get my hands on whatever system I can. Gotcha. What, (TI): Gotcha. What games were you drawn to growing up? (TD): The first game I replayed, that was my own was Kubert. I don't know if you remember that there was a top-down isometric game and you're a little orange guy and you hop around. that was pretty fun, but I think games like Legend of Zelda to me back then were really challenging. Megaman, I loved Megaman. And I think that the biggest series of growing up that germane into video games was Castlevania. I love Castlevania symphony of the night. I played that on the, the first PlayStation. And that was a real blowing game because you could play through the whole game, go through the whole level and there was a map and you could see your progress. But if you, if you beat the last box, The credits should roll in, that'd be it. But if you had a certain piece of equipment, there was like a hidden thing with the boss. You would defeat that and unlock the Capitol would flip upside down. And then there was a whole other side of the game that you never would even know about. And so, things like that are really mind-blowing experiences to me and that kind of development, that kind of, design is just amazing. (TI): So, you got a big thing for Easter eggs. (TD): Yeah. (TI): Well, that's one thing that elder scrolls really does really well. I remember playing Skyrim and seeing the, you know, a lady in the lake and all the other Easter eggs that they had in the game. (TD): And they had the Minecraft kick action at the top of the mountain. (TI): Yes, yes. All good stuff. Well, the first question we usually ask, is when did you know that the military was going to be the next step in your life? (TD): So, I grew up in Maryland and I had, I was going to community college, and I wasn't really getting anywhere with that. I was getting really frustrated with academics. I, I wasn't progressing the way I want it to at the speed I wanted to. And so, one day I just sat up and I went the recruiting station and, that was pretty much it. I, I had one conversation with them. I was into it. I, I signed up and I decided to go in the US Army, active duty. I believe my first contract was actually 11Xray and so it was like you were going to go to infantry, basic training, and then you might get an opportunity to go to ranger, ranger battalion. I performed well in basic training and performed well enough to where one of the drill sergeants offered me an 18X-ray contract. And so, that meant that I was going to go to airborne school and then go try out for selection. So that's what I did. Wow. (TI): Wow. Now you said you had only one conversation with a recruiter. Was it, you just walked in, you were like, “I, you know what, I just want to go in the military. Let’s just do it.” (TD): Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Total, total dive. I was unsatisfied with, with college. I was unsatisfied with my own ability to get to where I wanted to. And I was passionate even then about video games and building computers is really expensive. So, if you don't have a good skill set workwise instead said it's hard to, to manage that. So, I decided to just dive right in, and I knew that I needed a better skillset, a better work ethic. I needed to hear from other people, other mentors about how to perform better, how to be a better person individually. So, I really was drawn to things like the army value system. Really worthwhile. I didn't explore too many of the career options. I was a hard charger. I was like, “Let's do infantry. Let's do airborne.” I went to selection. I didn't get selected. So, I watched the infantry and, I didn't go to an airborne unit either. I went to a straight leg unit out in Fort Lewis and a shout out to Patrick Company 423 infantry regiment. I served with them for a few years and then, and then I decided to try and get back into special operations and I applied, and I ended up going and get into PSYOP. (TI): Okay, So, Fort Lewis, that's my neck of the woods. That's where I grew up. I grew up out in the Pacific Northwest about two hours west on the beaches. Aberdeen Hoquiam area, Grace Harbor. So, know the area. Know I-5 very well, know that traffic right outside of Fort Lewis is not always the best time. Your bio said that you went to Haiti and Afghanistan. Did you go to Haiti during the 2010 quake? (TD): Yes. Yeah, that was my first deployment. So, the earthquake happened, we saw it on the news. I was, I had medical training when I was in the infantry. I got to get my EMT basic. And so, I was like, I was just thinking I could be useful out there and we were in a, we were in our pre-deployment training phase for Afghanistan. So, I figured it would be a good time to put some of the training I had into practice. My NCO, was like, “Why are you volunteering to do anything like that? This is crazy.” (TI): So, you went as like an individual augmentee. You didn't go as a unit? (TD): No, no, no, no. It was, it was so I, I volunteered to no like official manner or anything. I just told my NCO, I wanted to do it. He just kind of laughed in my face. Like. “So?” It was a normal reaction, but then like, I want to say that same day within a few hours, he said to everybody, “He's like, all right, you're ready to go get packed up. We're going down to Haiti.” And so, within 24 hours of that breaking news, we were on a plane going down there, flying into that airfield. I'll never forget it. I'll never forget that experience. And it was so. Humid. I have never experienced humidity like that before in my life. It was insane. (TI): What are you not going to forget from that experience besides the humidity? (TD): It was total destruction. That earthquake ravaged that country. And I, I felt horrible for everybody there. Fortunately, there were a lot of positive people on the ground. The locals and a lot of the non-profits that were there, assisting things. So, there was a lot happening. The destruction was pretty wild. So, in the, the one area that we were in, there was, we were handling right distribution, it was like a residential area around a clinic and all of the buildings were crumbled except for like one, And the guy who owned that house, I got to meet him actually. And he was, he was from, he was actually an American citizen and worked for Boeing. And so, he was an engineer and had constructed his house to his own standard. So, his house was still standing, and I thought that was pretty incredible. And he explained to me all of it, like why the buildings fell and why his is still standing. And there wasn't much damage there. But it was, it was, it was crazy. (TI): What was the, why was there so much destruction? Was it just the coding that they just didn't have much codes? (TD): From what the, I had been told on the ground, just from people I had met while we were working down there was that there were government and regulations and building codes, but they were never met, and they would never complete projects as a way of like getting around that loophole with the government code. So essentially what this engineer told me was that the concrete for the sidewalls, for the supporting walls needs to have something like two parts concrete, one part water, and brand-new rebar, but a lot of that home has had heavy roofs as well. So, you would do the same mixture on that. But they would go half on the mixture to save resources and then use recycled rusted rebar. And so, you have these heavy roof, weak walls, and then the earthquake wasn't even that bad. Like I think it was a seven point something. Normally, something like that, it'll shake things a little bit, but it won't take buildings down. But in Haiti, like all of the buildings fell, so like, or not all of them, but a great amount of heavy roof, weak walls, it just crushed. So, a lot of the injuries that I saw out there were like crushing injuries, fractal, skull, fractures, things of that nature. Yeah. (TI): Recent guests, Jake Wood, that's where he started team Rubicon, him and eight volunteers. So, he talked about that. Now it's a huge NGO. If you're listening to this, really good episode in the archives, if you want to check that one out, really good stuff. What year did you go to Afghanistan? (TD): It was right after Haiti. (TI): Like Bam, bam? (TD): Yeah. Yeah. Like we came back for a few weeks and then got back on another plane and went out to Afghanistan. (TI): Wow. So probably a 2011, 2012. What was the mission out there? Where were you at? (TD): We're doing village stability operations out in Farah, and it wasn't too bad. It was more or less what I expected, you know. Village stability operations, I think with like phase four of the whole plan for Afghanistan. And I had spent a lot of years in training for that. So, it was more or less like I expected, a lot of explosions. But we were doing good things. So, like one of the focuses on the efforts out there was on a girls school, like age, I don't know what the age range was, but for really young girls giving them some basic education and I was really excited to be a part of that. In fact, at one point I got to. I got to meet the minister of education in Afghanistan. He was a really old, really old like, wow. He looked maybe a hundred and he had traveled such a great distance to meet me. And I was, I was really honored by that. And he was so passionate about education. I'm also passionate about education. So, I love talking to him about it. Yeah. And so that was just a really cool experience. And he, he was dressed normally, like he had the, the normal garb that they were out there. So, it's not like he was in a suit or anything. He dressed like everybody else did there. Very cool guy. (TI): So, he came to meet you. What, what were you, what was your mission, was it to meet you or to meet the unit or to meet Tom Davis? (TD): No, not me. I was not some kind of rock star guy out there. I was just there supporting the team out there. (TI): So, he came to meet the, like the unit and stuff. Very cool. Yeah. Cool. While you were in Tommy, give me either a best friend or your greatest mentor. (TD): I’d say, two really good friends that I met while I was in was Joe Cruz, and Jared Nelson. So, we had gone through, the PSYOP training together. They're still on. They're doing great, they’re awesome. And they just have a really positive attitude, positive attitude towards them. And me and I can't remember if Joey was there, but Jared had, we had both been in Haiti and Afghanistan, so we'd both done that back-to-back. And it was funny because I ran into Jared. We were in different areas. Like we all get spread out. So, at one point we got caught in a sandstorm. We were out, going out somewhere. And this sandstorm is bad. Like iMac movie screen, bad. Like wall of sand and it was coming faster than you could leave. So, we had to, we found another base to pull off in, and there's so many people there, right? When you go to these bases and then I run into Jared of all the people. And so, it was just really cool to see him and meet him. After going through all that. But he's really tough guy. I don't know. How he's still, how all those guys jump out of airplane for 16, 20 years. They’re like lifers and they’re just insane. (TI): I, you know, for a lot of us, it's a young man's game. You look at the old, the old dog's doing, you're like, “what are you, how are you doing that? Is it—" (TD): They've got some, I don't know. There's some secret they've got. (TI): Is it, isn’t it amazing to you that the, you know, some of the guys that you were PFCs and, and specialists with, you're seeing them now as like staff sergeants, sergeants first classes, like, and say all those that you're like, “I remember when I remember when you were the young guy?” you know? (TD): I think it's tremendous, honestly, because like I was, I was totally the private potato type. I had the goofy glasses and shaved head and everything. I didn't, you know, I don't know what I'm doing half the time. So, like I was aimless and directionless and have no skills. So, to the great thing about the army is they can take you from that and really mold you and shape you into something useful. (TI): Absolutely. For society. Absolutely. (TD): I see those guys get promoted and move up in the ranks. I am, I'm extremely proud because it takes a lot of courage and a lot of, you need, you've got to be so solid to be able to stand up there and put yourself out like that and take on those responsibilities, you know, because with that rank comes a heavy amount of responsibility. And so, I think everybody who goes beyond that, into like, into any leadership role in the military is doing tremendous work. (TI): Outstanding, outstanding. So, when and why did you decide to leave active duty? (TD): My contract is ending. And my goal, one of my goals while I was in, during that contract was to get my bachelor's degree, like while I was in active service. I was able to complete courses here and there, but only like one at a time. And I was always in training and always in the field. So, it didn't really work well for doing online courses. And so, by the time I was done with those deployments, I had actually completed a course while I was deployed. So I was, I was getting well on my way, but I still didn't have that. And I said, you know what? I just need to take time, focus on that, get that degree and see what my next steps are. So, what years (TI): Gotcha. So, what years did you serve total? what time? What year did you get out? (TD): So, I got in 2005 and then I got out at 2011. (TI): Okay, wow. You must have had a longer—is that, did you do two contracts or was that just one? (TD): That was just one. (TI): Wow. So, you really dove in when you went to that recruiting office, you're like, give me the max contract, let’s just do it. (TD): Yeah. (TI): Wow. (TD): Yeah, I didn’t want an option out. I was like, “I just needed to learn, I need to get disciplined” and this is the way. (TI): Wow. Very good, very good. Now, did you know gaming, the gaming industry was where you wanted to go right after you got out? (TD): No, I was playing video games, but it was just more to relax. When I got out, I had more of a mindset that I might do work with USAID, because I got to work with USAID pretty closely out in Haiti, working logistically with getting rice to everybody and hooking materials and other supplies. So, I, I really admired work like that. I thought humanitarian work was maybe where I was going. But ultimately, I was playing more and more of video games. I was enjoying that experience and I ended up getting—I changed majors. I was a philosophy major and a double major for Russian. So. I just decided I was like, I don't want to do this anymore, it's stressing me out and I'm not having a good time. So, I changed majors to fine arts because I had really enjoyed art when I was younger. I decided there would be a, maybe more worthwhile experience, cause I was looking for personally, something challenging, but the, the solution had to be, to have problems a little more complex. And so, I like finding solutions to visual problems in art. So, things like composition and lighting, I think are interesting. And these are the kind of things I might break down if I'm watching a TV show or a movie, or even playing a video game. So, I enjoyed those complex scenarios of complex problems and seeing how I was progressing my way through this problem, I thought was really interesting. (TI): It sounds like your artistic eye goes beyond just gaming. Like if you're breaking down scenes and films and things like that, it's like the same things I do with composition light, that sort of thing. Very good. Very cool. What's what I was wondering. That's why I was like, “Why didn't you go to George Washington university over say like a gaming arts university, like full sail or something like that?” And that now it makes sense. You completely changed your major. You had something else. (TD): Yeah, and I was already a transfer student going in. So, like I changed my major a couple of times by the time I had gotten there. So, I couldn't really figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up. (TI): I was there myself. I think when I look back at my academic career, I look at, like to get my bachelor's. It was like a, something like seven different institutions. Like five of them were run. I was in the military, six of them, something like that. Yeah. It's kind of a, you know, and you just hope that all, like, when you go to your, get your final school, you're like, “How many credits will you take” Like when you're making that final decision, like I'm going to get my bachelor's, I think the big, one of the bigger decisions is, you know, which one's going to take the most credits to just get it done. (TD): Yeah. When I first went in, I hard charged in my first semester at GWU and I had signed up for six courses and that was not smart. I had to, I had to take a set back and really reevaluate what I was doing. (TI): Yeah. Now you were also, you were also doing extra extracurricular, extra-Curricular activities, as like a former president of GW Veterans, I'm assuming that's an on-campus organization. (TD): Yeah. So, CW Veterans is a chapter of student Veterans of America. I think SBA still has their office near GWU or like on GWU campuses. And so, student Veterans of America a great organization. They focus on, issues with Veterans and education. I think this is formed around, making sure the GI bill was going to process correctly at institutions and it's, it's. It was actually probably the number one reason why I went to GWU. When I got back from deployment before I'd even gotten out, I, I drove up to DC just to check out the campus. And I linked up with, the Vets that were there currently that were going to school and, in GWU Veterans and what I met them, I felt that sense of community that I was really looking for. And, and that really pulled me on. So, I was determined to go there. (TI): I really need to interview them. I know they've been, they were on a lot when I, the previous guests or the previous hosts, Tim Lawson hosted Borne the Battle before it became a video thing and everything, it's in the archives. He's in, he's interviewed Jared lion, all the presidents, the student—you know, they do like the student Veteran of the year. He's interviewed a bunch of them. He was very, very involved in flushing out the student Veteran America. And we haven't really done an episode in probably about two years, maybe it's time to revisit them. But that's all that's in the archives as well. How important was it for you to connect with the other Veterans on campus? Like you said that you did in that forum. (TD): It was critical. It's critical to be around people that can relate to your experiences in one way or another. And, and there were Veterans from all different kinds of services. And there were people that were still in there were involved with us. There were, you know, dependents of other former service members and other Veterans that were involved with us. And it was just a way to connect with people, on that same platform, full circle, you know? So, I got to meet, I think one of the coolest people I actually got to meet through being in GWU Veterans was a ranger from World War II and he came, yeah. He came to speak at the campus, and it was a really incredible story. He talked about his experiences. He had actually captured a group of Nazis that were having lunch by a riverside or a Creek or something and all of their weapons were like, Leaning up against the tree. And while they were having coffee and crumpets around, he was armed and just pointed at them and says, “Well, guess what? your mine.” And brought theim in. And so, the flag he actually captured from them he brought and he had it hanging in the background, or I think so, or he had like a screenshot. But he showed it to us, and it was really cool. I think I had a few bullet holes in it. (TI): That's outstanding. That's outstanding. Any cool accomplishments when you were at GWU Veterans, did you hold any gaming tournaments or anything? (TD): I wanted to. I was actually, I had actually, I had many conversations about setting up gaming tournaments and there were the gaming club that GWU, but it is hard to do that, to have extra-curricular activities are involved when you're taking coursework. (TI): 100%. I think that needs to be like, you know, I, e-sports was kicking up right just starting to kick up around that time. And, and I know when I was at NASCAR, I really, I pitched e-sports, and they're doing it now. You know, I think SVA is a perfect vehicle to have like a league or something, you know, something like that. (TD): That’s a great idea. I like it. (TI): Yeah. We, we've, I've explored that with the VA too. And so, hint, wink, wink, maybe there's a partnership there. How did you find your way to ZeniMax online studios? Like, how did you go from graduation to this really cool career? (TD): So, the year that I was my senior year, the last year I was at GWU, the virtual reality headsets had just started coming out and I decided to get myself for a graduation present the HTC Vive. It's a really cool, the room-scale VR headset. And I had always been a big fan of games from, Bethesda, Like Fallout and Elder Scrolls. I've been playing them throughout my whole life, and I'd played Elder scrolls Skyrim extensively. But when I got that HTC, Vive headset, eventually they released a version of Skyrim that was in VR. And I played that. And to me, that was it. You go from that experience and you're just like, wow, there's so much you can do here. (TI): The immersion is that good. (TD): I think so. Yeah. It changes everything to me because you know, you go from sort of projecting yourself out of a character on your screen. That's maybe this big, and then you're fighting monsters are this big, but it's just on your screen. So, you, you relate to it the way that the character representation of you is relating to it. But when you put a headset on, and you are the character and you're standing there, and things are scaled to you and your height. And you look at that dragon. And that thing is, is 20, 35 feet tall. It's a really memorable experience. But not just with video games, I was really fascinated with where that was going with the tech world. So, I had to dive in, so I really looked into that, and I was, I was doing a, another deep dive into the video game world and I had to know everything with the virtual reality and what was going on. That was just one bridge me into it. That was my fuel for getting into the industry. (TI): Gotcha. So, that was your fuel. So, so you did your research and obviously you probably found ZeniMax and Bethesda was just right up there, just like I did. And when I was there, I initially looked into this, you know, as a video editor, video producer, you're like, “Oh, gaming industry. They have a lot of stuff.” So, did you just apply online? That's it? That was it? You just applied online and got went through that process. Yeah. (TD): So, I sent them my resume. It probably wasn't the best resume because I, I never have gone through like my military experiences and skills and tried to translate them to civilian terminology. But I had a great friend, that I had gone to college with who was working there, and he had been working there from early on his name's Vince Long.. Great friend. He’s great friend to me for a really long time. And he had encouraged me to apply years ago, actually. And when I told him I was interested in it again, he encouraged me again. And that was, I think the biggest push though, was from my wife who knew how passionate I was about video games and, and these kinds of things. And the combination of my wife and my friends pushing me to do it really, got me to do it. So, it wasn't as simple as like, oh, I just applied and that was it. Like I had to convince myself that I should even apply. And I'm really glad I did cause it's a great job. (TI): Interesting. Very, very interesting, interesting that you had to convince yourself to apply. That's I think it's key for anybody that's listening to that. (TD): We can talk about that. If, if, if there are Vets that are interested in the, in the video game industry, I'm happy to talk about it. (TI): Oh, absolutely. I'm sure people will be hitting you up after this as well. You know, it's, it's funny that you said though, but I want to hit on the point that the fact that you said that you, you had to convince yourself to apply because unless you try, you don't really know if you can, if you, you know, it's like a confidence thing, right? Is that what it was? (TD): Well, how can I put this? there are some intellectual heavyweights in the video game industry. And so, it's—you, you, I questioned my own intelligence and my ability to be able to, to morph into that. Cause I haven't done software development before, my jobs were, in the military were being a paratrooper. And that's not one for one with the software development, but luckily a lot of the framework from the military, helps me stay focused line when I work. (TI): The tangible stuff, the commitment, and that sort of stuff. You know, I, but I think, I think it's so important that you said that because you're coming from infantry, and you went for a degree and you went for, you really went for a career that you're, you're, passionate about. Cause a lot of people tell a lot of infantry guys, “Hey, all, you're going to be good is as corrections officer or police officer or janitor.” And that's just not true. And, and you, you sir, Tommy, you're living in body minute of that. (TD): Thank you. Yeah. I was determined to get into something that I was interested in because anytime that I tried to be in a job where I wasn't interested in the industry, I was just dragging my feet. I was thinking of ways to get out of that. And that's true. I think in any job that you do. So there were, there were people I met in the military, they were going to do it a full 20 years and they're incredible, but they know where they want to be. So, they're comfortable wearing that hat. So, I think finding a place that works for you that makes you comfortable like that is ideal. And you get your best performance from being surrounded by people who share those interests. (TI): A hundred percent. A hundred percent brother. So overall as a, as a quality assurance tester, or I'm just going to say game tester for short for the rest of the interview, is your job to try and break an exploit game loops, or is it to measure your level of fun playing the core base of the game is at both? Or, or are you on like the edges of the map trying to see if you can click through mountains? how do you go about your job? (TD): I would say that you just do whatever needs to get done. So, like when, when I showed up to my first job at the infantry, you know, you showed up for formation, you get your tasks for the day and you do them. So, the same thing in QA, there's a lot going on. And for a game like this, Because the Elder Scrolls Online is a massive multiplayer online role play game. What that means is you have a ton of players in the same game at the same time, so they can talk to each other, they can interact, they can battle each other, and they can do all kinds of things. (TI): It's a, it's an entire world, literally. (TD): It's incredible. And it's so, it's so immersive that, I mean, you can get your own real estate and, and take things you've collected from your adventure and put them in your home and invite people to your home. So, it's really incredible. And because it's its own world, there is so much to do workwise. So, whatever needs to get done, I just make myself available for any, even if I don't know how to do it, I just, I ask people and you know, they'll teach me what I need to know and that's it. It's been really great. I've gotten to see a little bit of everything about how it works overall as a business, as an industry. I'm fascinated with it all. I'm soaking it all up. I love it. It is a, an amazing intersection of computer science, engineering, technology, and art. And I love seeing artists work with engineers and scientists and so on to create the world that we see, because it's just truly incredible. (TI): So, give me some examples of some of the things that you have worked with and on? And like what is like a task that you've accomplished or something like that. Just to give someone an idea of like, okay, what, what could happen in that? (TD): Well, you're going to do a lot of game testing. If you're a game tester, There’s that. (TI): [Laughter] But what does that, what does that encompass, like? What does game testing encompass? Is it literally just playing the core part of the game or are you literally trying to break it? (TD): Well, definitely you want to try and break it for sure, because if you don't then other players will definitely find out how. But it's not just about breaking it, you know, it's, it's, it's inherent within the title of quality assurance. You want to make sure that what's getting out the door is looking good. So, it's just like when you're in the military and you're doing your vehicle checks, you know, you want to make sure everything runs so that when you go to hit the accelerator, you know, that vehicle moves. So, a video game is the same way, you know, like you want to make sure everything is working right. So that everything fires off correctly. It, it reminds me a lot of doing vehicle maintenance checks. Honestly, it's not a one for one, obviously, but you're still working with machinery, you know? I mean, I'm not sitting there pulling a wrench. Yeah. but I think if you're technically minded, you'll do well. But even if you aren’t, it's a cool job because a studio like this, you know, values people from all kinds of backgrounds. So, you don't even have to have like a specific skillset like that. But if, if you're artistic and creative, you know, you're going to do great in video games. If you're a technological wizard, you're going to do amazing video games as well. And I think that the biggest thing of course is getting along with everybody you work with. It's easy to when you share the same interests because you know, we all are, everybody there is a gamer, and we all play video games. So, we're all talking about it all the time. Great environment that we share, those same passions. (TI): That's, that's awesome. Get along people that you work with. Has it, it doesn't sound like it's taken away from any joy from playing video games. I, for example, I, there was a guy I worked with, he was an NBA fan. He produced videos for NASCAR, and I was like, “Do you ever want me to produce videos for in the NBA?” And he's like, “No, I don't want to be burnt out on about the NBA.” And so it doesn't sound like that's happening with you yet, or if it even will. (TD): Now if anything, I want to play video games more. I love being involved with the process. I, I always want to learn something else about it. I want to learn something new about it every day. And there's so much to learn. There's so much to see and experience. So, I just—every day you wake up, I think when you're, when you're involved with the video game industry, what's amazing is what's something amazing that's going to happen today and I'm pretty sure it will. And I'm usually right. (TI): You know, I think gaming is a, is a really great way to stay connected to your Veteran friends. You know, I, I don't play Elder Scrolls anymore. I haven't played it in a while. One, it’s giant time sink. and two I've been taking any time. I do get a game— play Madden now. There’s a timer, right. So, you get to, there's you have one game and then you're done, but you still have the online franchise mode where you can still connect with your Veteran. You can still have other teams that are, that are your friends. And, and that's how we, I still connect to a lot of my friends in the Veteran community. (TD): Well I think that you'd probably like, what we're doing this year with Elder Scrolls Online. So, I'm going to see if I can pull you back in the gates of oblivion story for Blackwoods. And it's a really cool, it's a really cool experience. There's a lot of stuff to see. I'm a big fan of the Xbox game pass. IT gives you access. It's kind of like the, I don't know if I should say that, like the Netflix of gaming, I hear it said a lot, but you subscribe to the pass and then you get to play a huge list of games from the Xbox library. A lot of games like you're talking about from VA are on there, but it's a great way to connect with people and it's, it makes it easier now. Easier now more than ever to connect with people that you want to play with. And because of things like this, because sometimes it's hard to get somebody into a game because you don't want to buy them a $60 copy when you've already spent $60 on your copy. Now you've got the game pas, you can get into these co-op games and get in there and play together. And I think that's really worthwhile. I've seen a lot of, a lot of this, a lot of, video game interactions, help a lot of people when they get back. And, I think it does really well for them. I've seen stuff on the VA website related to just that. (TI): Yeah. On the VA website? (TD): Yeah. There's, I think there was an article I just read yesterday about what they were doing with accessibility and then therapy and training. (TI): Exactly. With the game passes or the Microsoft, game controls. Yeah, no, I, you know, Madden, that, that's the core of keeping some of it, a lot of these Veteran friendships alive that I still have. We play, we play Madden, we have our own teams and then we keep in touch with discord. We have like a hall of records. We have like a, a, you know, you know, there's— cause some of the stats that, that Madden doesn't keep like the yearly MVP is and who wins super—And so stuff like that, like we keep that in a record in discord and then we still, and then we have like another old chat box for free agents or, or for trading and things like that. But you know, there's six or seven guys in there and that's how we stay in touch. (TD): Awesome. Yeah, that's what I love about it. And, you can stay connected with your friends, keep doing the stuff you want to do no matter what you're doing and where you're doing it at. And If you serve in the military, you know how hard it can be to stay connected with the people that you served with, because just the way that life takes you, you’re all over. So, it's really great for staying connected to them. (TI): Now working for ZeniMax, is there a Veteran clinic of Veteran dynamic, Veteran group affiliation, either within ZeniMax or within the gaming community? You know, a lot of companies like Microsoft, Amazon, Allstate, Charter Spectrum, Spectrum Communications, are some of the people I interviewed. They’ve built like a military affairs division to not only recruit Veterans to their company, but to train them for civilian integration and also somewhat Koch industries. They train their supervisors to understand the kind of person that they're getting when they hire a Veteran and to help train them, to help them understand and integrate, you know, what to make, find out what Veterans’ tick and that way they can, they can have a better, a more cohesive unit. Does Zenimax have anything like that? Is there anything like that in the gaming community? (TD): So, so we were recently acquired by Microsoft and now are on direct box. So, what I love about that is, is that Microsoft has done some great things with the VA in the past. I remember when they. Introduced the Microsoft XBox adaptive controllers to some of the VA centers. And that helped a lot of, disabled service members. And I think that kind of stuff is incredible. (TI): That was a couple of years ago. I think I read that in the news. Yeah. (TD): Yeah. And you can, I think it was limited who got access to that, but I think you can just buy those now. And I think they're really great if you're, if you're looking to stay in the game and you're having difficulty with a traditional controller. I love what they do with Veterans and for Veterans. And I was really excited about that acquisition. And I think that the, one of the greatest ways, if you're— so I, I think this question is like, if you're looking to get into the industry, like you're a Veteran and you're trying to develop a skillset to get in, I think one of the best ways to do it is through the Microsoft Software and Systems Academy. it used to, it used to take from your GI bill, but now it doesn't. I think because of the pandemic, they, they made it all online and it's all free to Veterans. So that's incredible. Yeah. That's, that's really worthwhile and they've got a high success rate, so I'm just really proud to be a part of that in some small way. (TI): Yeah, Danny Chung came on the podcast probably about two years ago. He's the Director of the Microsoft Military Affairs and talked about that, that, and there's also like a spouse, a military training academy. You'd have to look at the blogger, have to look at that, that episode to listen to it. But yeah, a lot of good, a lot of, a lot, a lot of stuff that, that Microsoft does and, and training Veterans for the next step, if they want to get into that. So, so yeah, if you get a chance, say hi to Danny Chung there, if you ever of getting that get involved. (TD): I’ll look him up. (TI): Yeah. No, definitely, definitely look them up. Definitely look them up. Also, my old CEO from, from my training school. Yeah, so it was fun to see him go from, you know, being a company commander pretty much to, to what he's doing now. It's incredible. So, what is, what is the next career track for, for a video game tester or a QA test, or what, what would be the next step in your career? (TD): Well, you can always, you know, stay in quality assurance, but there are other departments in the studio, if you go to jobs.Zenimax, let me see. jobs.zenimax.com/jobs. You can break it down what kind of positions are available by department and location. Cause we have, you know, studios and offices all over the world. And I think if you get into quality assurance and the QA, it's a really good way to see what the industry is like and then you can look into those other departments and see if there's anything else you like, or maybe you love doing quality assurance. But there are a lot of career paths. There's production, there's engineering, there's computer science, you know, designers, artists, animators. marketing (TI): Marketing. (TD): Yes, marketing. (TI): Big time. Especially with some of those AAA titles. How has it been? Okay. So, we've talked a lot about Bethesda. There's ZeniMax, how are those two related? Because it does the, you know, it was a AAA independent studio before the acquisition and they made Elder Scrolls that we've talked about, the Fallout series. And Zenimax has a hand in those, but ZeniMax also has a hand in other iconic IPs, like Doom, Dishonored, Wolfenstein, Corrupt Quake, you know, Rage and Evil Within are also, you know, critically acclaimed. How, how are those two? Yeah. Great games. How, how do those two interact? These two companies? (TD): Well, there's media, which is like the overarching company and then there's, ZeniMax online studios there, but there’s the studio develops video games. And then there's the publisher that publishes all these games that you're talking about. And then each of these studios fall under Zinemax, and then that now under Xbox, Microsoft. But don't quote me. I'm not an expert on organizational structure. That's how I understand it, I think. (TI): It doesn't seem as linear as like division, regiment battalion company, you know. It just seems like there's a lot of things going on there. A lot of things going on. (TD): It feels a lot like you’re—I don't know if you're a Star Trek fan, but it feels like you're on the USS Enterprise and there's just a lot going on. Everybody has got their jobs to make the ship run, but everybody's down to make that ship run. So that’s a lot of how it feels like. (TI): So, it's almost like there's kind of— it's not even like, okay, so there is ZeniMax and then there's like all these affiliation studios underneath. Very good. Very good. Very good. Tommy what's, what's a piece of advice that you would have for anybody that's getting out and wants to work in the video game industry, other than a starter as a QA tester? (TD): I would say, get involved with, Veterans service organizations. Get linked up with other Veterans. Because when you're getting out, there's a lot of things you need to get squared away and they're going to help get you set up for success. So, Veterans throughout my life have helped me out and mentored me and got me to where I needed to go. Especially when I got out of service and I was starting my life as a civilian and getting into becoming a student, they will help you with all of your questions that you have about where to go, what to do, who to talk to. I was heavily involved with Student Veterans of America and GW Vets, obviously. I think there's a lot of great service organizations out there. You mentioned team Rubicon, I’m huge fan of them. Wounded Warrior Project is another great organization, if you need to tap into those kinds of resources. And there are all kinds of things in the industry now, if you're interested in getting in there. So, I think there’s skill bridge, I've heard good things about that from, from other buddies. So do your skill bridge. And if you're worried about having a skill set like I was, do some training online, get some, get some certifications under your belt so that you've got something to bring to the table. But I think that a lot of Veterans have a lot to bring to the table and I would do very well in this area. (TI): Very good. Absolutely. Especially with all the intangibles that Veterans bring. But you're talking like the online certifications, like probably like LinkedIn learning or something like that. (TD): I like the LinkedIn learning and the learning courses.I think they're, they're really on point. and it states view your GI bill tank, you know, doing courses like that and getting those certifications. So, you can use that for something later on and doing something a little more heavyweight on your resume. (TI): Very good. Very good. Tell me, what's one thing that you learned in the military that you apply to what you do today? If you were to pick one thing, I know there's many things sometimes. (TD): I think discipline. I think discipline and time management are key to success and it helped me survive in the military for a nerdy guy like me who was really only interested in video games and I'm doing some rough jobs. But being on time, saves you a lot of pain, and can't be on time without having discipline. (TI): Well, it's funny when you, when you talk about that nerdy guy in the infantry and where you're at now, I'm like, man, he should have, you know—he showed up, but you know, it's funny that you didn't even think of like going into like an S6 field, you know, and then, but, but it, obviously—it sounds like you wouldn't have traded your experience for the world either. (TD): No. The guys that I met there, I mean, they were great and yeah. When I started in the infantry, I would say that almost every single one of my battle buddies was playing video games as they got off work anyway. We had our own computers, and we were all playing video games, heavily. (TI): Tommy, is there, is there anything that I've missed or haven't asked that you think it's important to share? (TD): I would say, thanks to my wife, first of all. And if you are a Veteran and you have a wife, a spouse, a husband, or a significant other, you should thank them for supporting you because that's been critical to everything that I do. And don't doubt yourself. And if you are doubting yourself about your career transition and where you want to go and what you want to do and what you want to do when you grow up, you know, talk to your peers. Talk to other Veterans, talk to them about what you're about, what you want to do, and they will help you get there. In my experience. (TI): Sounds like Veterans have helped you, and it sounds like your spouse has been a huge influence on you. (TD): I mean, that kind of support is irreplaceable, you know, and, and having that kind of insight into your own life and interest is critical because without that perspective, I mean, you can get pretty lost. (TI): Yeah. I don't think I've told this story on the podcast, but my wife applied to this job on my behalf. I didn't even do it. Didn't even do it. She's like, she's like, “You have an interview on Monday.” I was like, “For what?” she'd be like, “Oh, to tell Veterans stories.” it's like, okay, I can mess with that. (TD): You have a great wife. (TI): Yeah. Shout out to all the spouses out there. (TD): And I like the podcast. I've actually been listening to it for a while. I listened to it with the previous host. I've been listening to you. You've been doing a great job. I really liked that interview with Jake Wood. This format I think is really good for Veterans. I think this podcast is a big step in the right direction for the VA and getting that information out and making it relatable and digestible. (TI): I appreciate that. I really do appreciate that. Again, when you talk about, when you're talking about having a passion, it makes your job easier, a lot easier. So, thank you. I appreciate that. Well, Jake, thanks for coming on— (TD): Jake? (TI): When I, when I talked, I was like, “Did I say Jake?” (TD): [Laughter] (TI): I had my mind on Jake Wood. Well, Tommy, thanks you for coming on. When I talked about this interview beforehand, and, and I explained what you, what you did for a living, a lot of people asked me, “How did, how did he get that gig? We want that gig.” So, hopefully we've answered a lot of questions today. For people that have, you know, people that have that question, really appreciate you coming on and helping out with that. (TD): Thanks for having me on and thanks for what you do for Veterans and thanks to all the Veterans out there that are listening for everything they do. [Music] Narrator: Strength is something earned, not given. Dedication means pursuing your passion, everyday. Healing is something we do, together. And together, we put Veterans first. Search VA Careers [Link: www.vacareers.va.gov] to find out how. [Music] (TI): Wanna thank Tommy for joining us, showing all you grunts out there that you can do more, and your career options are more diverse than what you think. You can find more on what Tommy does by, you know, you can Google, “Quality assurance tester for a video game company,” or go to elderscrollsonline.com [Link: www.elderscrollsonline.com] to see his credit, or you can find him on LinkedIn. This week’s Borne the Battle Veteran of the Week is from our VA Veteran of the Day program. Every day, our digital media team honors a Veteran on all of our social media platforms and with the blog on blogs.va.gov [Link: www.blogs.va.gov], you can nominate the Veteran in your life by emailing in a short writeup and a couple of photos to [email protected]. Patrick Peter Caruana was born in November, 1939 in St. Louis. He enlisted in the Air Force while he was still in high school. Immediately after graduation, Caruana went to Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio to complete basic training. He then completed technical school training to become an aircraft mechanic. After he served as a mechanic for two years, Patrick received an appointment to the Air Force Academy in June of 1959. Patrick then completed one year of pilot training at Vance Air Force Base in Oklahoma, where he learned how to fly a jet aircraft. He served as an Air Force officer for the next 33 years, started from enlisted, and you'll see where he goes. Check this out. During the Vietnam war, Patrick served at two bases -I can't pronounce their names- in Thailand and Phan Rang in South Vietnam. He flew missions to support troops in South and North Vietnam. Caruana also flew combat support missions to transport troops and supplies for the army and special forces. In September of 1989, Caruana then became the commander of the 42nd Air Division Strategic Air Command at Grand Forks Air Base, North Dakota. He then served as a commander of strategic forces in Saudi Arabia from August of 1990, till March of 1991, during Desert Shield and Desert Storm. He, along with several other officers, planned and executed the Desert Storm air campaign. Patrick was in charge of all US Air Force refueling, B52 bombing, and reconnaissance operations. He also commanded the 17th Air Division, which had 12 wings of tanker, bomber and reconnaissance aircraft. In 1997 Caruana retired at the rank of Lieutenant General, having logged over 5,000 flying hours and 500 combat hours. He now serves as the chairman of the board of directors for Family Policy Alliance. And he's been there since 2013. Air Force Veteran Patrick Caruana. Thank you for your service. That's it for this week's episode. If you yourself would like to nominate a future Borne the Battle Veteran of the Week so we can all learn their story, you can. Just send an email to [email protected], include a short write-up, and let us know why you’d like to see him or her as the Borne the Battle Veteran of the Week. And if you like this podcast episode, hit the subscribe button. We’re on iTunes, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, iHeartRadio, pretty much any podcasting app known to phone, computer, tablet, or man. For more stories on Veterans and Veteran benefits, check out our website, blogs.va.gov [Link: www.blogs.va.gov]. And follow the VA on social media- Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, RallyPoint, LinkedIn. DeptVetAffairs, US Department of Veterans Affairs. No matter the social media, you can find us with that blue check mark. And as always, I'm reminded by people smarter than me to remind you that the Department of Veterans Affairs does not endorse or officially sanction any entities that may be discussed in this podcast. Nor any media products or services they may provide. I say that because the song you're hearing now is called “Machine Gunner,” which is courtesy of the non-profit Operation Song and was written by a Marine Veteran Mick McElhenny, Nashville songwriter Jason Sever, and Mykal Duncan. Have a great day. Thank you for listening. We'll see you right here, next week. Take care. [Music] (TD): So, I was in Afghanistan, and some people like to bring things with them when they deploy, like a guitar or a violin- you know, something to boost their morale. I wanted to bring an Xbox. So, I brought my Xbox, and I had got to play it one time and then I had to get to where we were going. We got to where we were going, I finally got an opportunity to sit down and play again, play a round of something. No internet connection or anything, just, like single player stuff. And when I plugged it in to the outlet that we had, it immediately burst into flames. (TI): [Laughter]. It wasn’t rated for Afghanistan. (TD): Oh boy, and, mind you, the room- my room, had explosives and you know, ammunitions and all kinds of things. So like, fire in there is like really bad so I unplug it and I’m freaking out, so I put it out and, thankfully, nothing bad happened, nothing blew up. Both: [Laughter]. (TD): Then it dawned on me how bad the situation really was and that was that I didn’t have an Xbox anymore. (TI): [Laughter]. That’s the real bad situation. (TD): [Laughter]. The morale really sank from that point.