0:00

We're

0:00

gonna try to keep it kinda generic

0:03

and try not to reference too many specific

0:05

projects. Why not? Well,

0:09

I mean, we'll we'll work with our clients. I just

0:11

wanna know who's pain he has to work with.

0:14

Exactly. Exactly.

0:28

This

0:28

is Bourbon Pursuit, the official podcast

0:30

of Bourbon bringing to you the best in

0:33

news reviews and interviews with people

0:35

making the bourbon whiskey industry happen?

0:37

And I'm one of your host, Kenny Coleman. You

0:39

may remember back on episode three hundred

0:41

and thirty four and we talked about how

0:43

to engineer a distillery, everything

0:46

that goes into it from mechanical, electrical,

0:48

plumbing and everything like that. But we forgot

0:51

to start off with a key component and that's

0:53

the architecture. A quick Google

0:55

search for distillery architects will

0:57

always lead you to one place. Joseph

0:59

and Joseph and Brevera. The architecture

1:02

firm is synonymous with creating the most iconic

1:04

distillery and visitor experiences all

1:06

across Kentucky. They got their start

1:08

by designing four roses back in nineteen

1:10

o nine and have since then been

1:12

the lead architects on places like Old

1:14

Forester in downtown mobile, Artsdown

1:16

Burbank Company, Mickters, Luxrow,

1:18

Angel's Envy, and so many more.

1:21

We're joined by Cash Motor and Eric Hughesman

1:23

who are both partners in the firm. We discuss

1:25

the history of the firm and then we dive

1:27

into what it takes to architect a distillery.

1:30

Where to start and how do you design around

1:32

about bunch of different constraints. With

1:34

that, enjoy this week's episode. And now

1:36

here's RedMedic with the above the char.

1:38

I'm

1:41

Fred Minic, and this is above the char.

1:45

Today's idea comes from

1:47

Nate j? Or is it Jane,

1:49

Nate? Nate JA2

1:52

first name first name, last name.

1:54

Name. NJ writes

1:56

me on fredminic dot com. Where

1:59

do you think bourbon would be today

2:01

in two thousand twenty two? had

2:04

Prohibition never happened.

2:07

What? This

2:09

is the kind of question I have.

2:12

never really thought about, but it is a

2:14

fascinating one to ponder.

2:16

Oh my goodness. If Prohibition never

2:19

happens,

2:21

wow. Oh,

2:22

boy. So if

2:24

prohibition never happens, I'm gonna

2:26

I'll I'll throw a couple ideas

2:29

out that may shock a few people.

2:32

If prohibition never happens, I

2:34

don't think Jim B would be

2:36

as powerful as it became. Reason

2:40

being, you know, there were a lot

2:42

of brands and brand names

2:44

that were out there that

2:47

did not have did

2:49

not have the shrink to carry on.

2:51

So Beam was was a

2:53

really good name and a solid

2:55

brand, but it was not the mega powerhouse.

2:58

that it was. And it was until after prohibition

3:01

that they kinda became more of

3:03

that. And I think that they

3:06

they garnered strength in Prohibition.

3:09

Same with, you know, Pappy Van

3:11

Winkle, same

3:13

with Brown Forman, Nash

3:16

distillers, you know, a lot of

3:18

those big companies that survived

3:20

Prohibition had the manpower and

3:22

the shrink and the know how to do

3:24

it. but there were other

3:26

families like the MacBres

3:30

and what's the

3:32

what's that one in Marion County. I'm always

3:34

talking about the Blair's, McBrayer and Blair's.

3:36

Those are those are two so McBrayer

3:38

would have been, like, in Anderson

3:40

County, and the blares would have

3:42

been in Marion County. And so those are

3:44

two really strong whiskey

3:48

names that would have been

3:51

much more powerful had

3:53

Prohibition never happened. Also,

3:56

you know, I think the Nelson

3:58

Distillery. So Charles, you we know

4:00

if that know them now for Nelson Greenbrier,

4:03

but Tennessee had a prohibition

4:06

starting in nineteen o nine. And

4:08

if prohibition never happens,

4:10

Charles Nelson, which was larger than Jack

4:12

Daniels at the time, I

4:15

think would have continued its

4:17

its steam. But, you know, they

4:19

had kinda lost their their patriarch

4:22

and and they kinda changed

4:24

quite a bit and just moved on. But

4:26

that that family just

4:28

didn't continue during prohibition

4:31

at least at a high pace. So I

4:33

think those are just a few ideas and

4:35

I think the concept of

4:38

craft distillery would

4:40

never have existed because they

4:43

would just remain independent, and

4:45

there would have been distilleries

4:47

all over the country.

4:49

you would have seen distilleries

4:52

in New Jersey, you know,

4:54

Montana, all over the

4:56

place, you know, as early as like

4:58

thirties and forties because people did

5:00

make whiskey all over. It would

5:02

just you could argue it wasn't any good, but

5:04

they made it. And

5:07

I would say last but certainly

5:09

not least, if prohibition never

5:11

happened, we would not have

5:13

the three tier system. the three

5:15

tier system was created to

5:18

give control to the state. So

5:20

essentially, every state became

5:23

its own regulatory authority from

5:25

importing to issuing

5:27

tavern licenses at the

5:29

municipality level. after

5:31

prohibition. Prior to that,

5:34

it was you could sell alcohol a

5:36

lot differently. I mean, how you could sell to

5:38

one another. you know, so

5:40

the three tier system would have been

5:42

avoided entirely if prohibition

5:45

never happened. But that's an amazing question.

5:48

one that I have not

5:50

really pondered, but I like

5:52

those kind of what if questions, you

5:54

know. I mean, how that make a good movie? That

5:57

make a really good movie. I mean, I doubt

5:59

tons of people would watch it, but it'd

6:01

be a good movie. But that's gonna

6:03

do it for this week's above the

6:05

chart. If you would like to be

6:08

like Nate Jay, hit me up

6:10

on fredminc dot com. That's fredminc

6:12

dot com. And if I like the

6:14

question, I'll read it on the air. Until

6:16

next week, cheers.

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gambler, a bourbon that blends the

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7:21

road trip continues and we're heading into

7:23

the Windy City for the first week of October.

7:25

On October fifth, you can catch me at Benny's

7:27

in Naperville from five to seven PM

7:30

And then on October sixth, I'll

7:32

make my way further into the city, and I'll

7:34

be at Binnys in Lincoln Park from five to

7:36

seven PM as well. You know, I've always said that

7:38

I enjoy deep dish pizza over New York

7:40

style, so pop over and say hi, come support

7:42

me, and try some United Bourbon and

7:44

United Rye. and please take home a

7:46

bottle or maybe even twenty for yourself and

7:48

your friends. Heck, it's not too early to

7:50

start buying Christmas presents. And the tour

7:52

continues after this in Tennessee and you

7:54

can get information about the dates and

7:56

locations at pursuit spirit dot com

7:58

slash tour and follow all of our social

7:59

media channels for updates. We'll see you

8:02

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8:33

Welcome

8:40

back another episode of Bourbon Pursuit,

8:42

the official podcast of bourbon, and I'm

8:44

with Ryan today. And we're talking about something that

8:46

is very interesting because back on

8:48

episode three hundred and thirty

8:50

four, it was when we talked about the

8:52

mechanical engineering side of building

8:54

a distillery. And today, Ryan, talking

8:56

about the architecture side. Yeah.

8:58

They're pretty solid. You know, the

9:00

mechanical is just how everything works, how everything

9:02

gets done. Good. That's all. The the

9:04

process is whatnot. but architecture

9:06

is what's the beauty,

9:07

the majestic, the when you walk in and

9:10

you get this feeling, you know, when you

9:12

walk in there. So, yeah, I'm excited to

9:14

talk to these guys a day

9:16

and understand the whole architecture part because I'm

9:18

sure designing around a distillery

9:20

is super simple and, like, no

9:22

problems whatsoever. Every man just

9:24

goes and there's no codes in

9:26

regulation. It's just like super, you

9:28

know, it's an easy, you know, it's like

9:30

designing a, you know, a house or something. That

9:32

or you have all these expansion

9:34

projects from distillaries that have been started

9:36

back in, like, nineteen o nine and you're just like, hey,

9:38

you know, that's fine. Just go ahead and add another building

9:40

here. We'll add another fermenter. It should be pretty

9:42

easy. Right? Yeah. Just work with the existing

9:44

structure, you know, it's sound and We

9:46

don't need to increase the pipe size. Like, the water

9:48

water pressure is fine. Yeah.

9:50

But today on the show, let's go ahead. We'll

9:53

get in the introduction. So today, we

9:55

have AirKiehl's men as well as

9:57

Cash Motor. They are partners at Joseph and

9:59

Joseph and Prevera architects. Now

10:01

before we actually lead them on, I wanna make sure

10:03

to give them a little bit of a, like,

10:05

how important this is because this is this is some

10:07

of the hands that they've they've had their

10:10

responsibilities, they kinda had their hands in. They've done

10:12

Old Forrester, Bardstown Bourbon

10:14

Company, angels and v four

10:16

roses, mictors, James B, Beam

10:18

Luxrow, Fred B, No, Kentucky

10:20

Peerless, James C Pepper, and Jeff

10:22

McCreid. That's a lot of places

10:24

now when I say it, but guys welcome to the show.

10:26

Oh, I appreciate it. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for

10:28

having us. I was joking with Kenny last night.

10:30

I was doing some research and I was like, man,

10:32

they're the Vuzix of architecture.

10:34

You know, the Vuzix build all the warehouses

10:36

or warehouses for all the distilleries and then apparently,

10:38

Joseph and Joseph does all the architecture.

10:41

So We're trying. We're trying to get them all. Got

10:43

that got that market market cornered.

10:45

That's right. That's right. That's a good place to be

10:47

though. But before I kind of dive into that a

10:49

little bit, I kinda wanna know a

10:51

little bit about you

10:53

all. like, how did you all get into the

10:55

architecture side? And how did you

10:57

find your way into saying, like, hey, this this whole,

10:59

like, building a urban thing is

11:01

pretty cool. So, gosh, I'll I'll kinda start with

11:03

you. Sure. Sure. So, yeah, so the

11:05

firm started nineteen o eight, and it's

11:07

my family firm. two

11:09

brothers, Alan Alser Joseph, started the firm in

11:11

nineteen o eight. So you really didn't have a

11:13

choice but to go into Yeah. Exactly. So it

11:15

was a yeah. It was either get kicked out of

11:17

the family or do they do this, but it

11:19

worked out well. So we've been doing it. The first

11:21

distillery we did is it's now for roses

11:23

distillery. It was JTS Brown back in the

11:25

day. That was in nineteen o nine. and

11:27

we've been doing it ever since. So

11:29

their two sons took over, came in in the

11:31

thirties, and then one

11:33

branch left and went to California. And then

11:35

my grandfather joined the firm in the fifties.

11:37

So he was a structural engineer,

11:39

went to college and came back after World

11:41

War two and joined the firm.

11:43

and then my dad joined the firm in the seventies.

11:45

So and then all the Josephs have they

11:48

were smarter than us and became attorneys. And

11:50

and so luckily, it's it's the motors taken

11:52

over since then, and then and then

11:54

Eric joined us a few years back.

11:56

Yeah.

11:57

I was I actually at Brevira.

11:59

The other the

11:59

other name you mentioned there other than Joseph and

12:02

Joseph, and

12:03

had the privilege of working on Old Forester

12:05

was the first project distillery

12:07

project that I got to work on. So

12:09

that always holds a special place in

12:11

my heart, an amazing project if you've

12:13

been there. And so I went to another firm

12:15

for a for a little bit did a

12:17

little bit of distillery work there, but never

12:19

really

12:19

got back into it. So

12:21

when Kash reached out to me,

12:23

I did a little research on on Joseph

12:25

and Joseph and It was a great

12:28

fit. So here we are. Join

12:29

forces. We did deal like kinda

12:31

like a Voltron kind of episode. We just kinda

12:34

comes together. That's right.

12:36

That wasn't the plan, but it's

12:38

amazing how these you look back. And this was, you

12:40

know, I guess, a little over three years ago

12:43

now. And Yeah. It's

12:44

just it's just worked out and and

12:47

Brevira was is a phenomenal firm

12:49

too and done some great work. So

12:51

when we were sort of looking to grow

12:53

and band, it it just made a lot of sense.

12:55

So that's how it

12:55

all came to be. And did you have the

12:58

experience doing the whole distillery

13:00

side of things before this, or was that sort

13:02

of a a new thing for you?

13:03

I mean,

13:04

prior to the old Forrester, no.

13:06

A lot of my early

13:09

career was was restaurants.

13:11

hospitality, which is

13:14

very relatable to a lot of the

13:16

bourbon side of things

13:17

complicated. You're jamming

13:20

a bunch of stuff into a small building.

13:22

So I think, you know, relatable there.

13:24

But, no, until Old

13:26

Forester, that was kind of my first Bergen

13:28

experience. Yeah. I was gonna say, what did

13:30

Joseph and Joseph do before the Bergen do?

13:32

You know, what other focuses, I guess, do you have?

13:34

because it's was pretty boring in the

13:36

distillery architecture because nobody

13:38

was expanding, adding on, doing all these beautiful

13:40

things. Yeah. So we so

13:42

we did a lot of work for Brown Forman,

13:44

you know, into the eighty we've been doing that

13:46

work for them since the thirties, but we

13:48

did a lot of work for them. We did their whole campus

13:50

in the eighties and nineties. converting

13:52

what we built in the thirties into their

13:54

their corporate campus. But we also do a

13:56

lot of multifamily residential, so we

13:58

also do some parts work

13:59

We have a lot of some hotel

14:02

work that we're doing right now. So so we

14:04

we have our hands in a lot of a lot of different

14:06

aspects of the business. Around

14:07

here, you can't put all your eggs in one basket

14:09

just enough market, but bourbon has

14:11

been good to us over the past, you know, ten,

14:13

fifteen years as it's grown exponentially.

14:16

Yeah. I'd say so. That's there's no shortage

14:19

of of distilleries that want to expand

14:21

or anything like that, and it seems to

14:23

be the the

14:23

good place that you're in right now that you're the first phone call a

14:26

lot of these people make. So how

14:28

does that relationship get established?

14:30

Like, how does I four rows

14:32

is easy because, hey, we're there in

14:34

nineteen year. You remember us back then? Yeah.

14:37

We still have the drawing. That's

14:39

exactly right. That helps. Yeah. It does

14:41

help. yeah, I mean, it comes lots

14:43

of different ways. You know, it's personal

14:45

relationships, really, and word-of-mouth, you

14:47

know. So as I'm sure you've

14:49

learned over your podcast that

14:51

urban industry is is a little

14:53

incestuous in terms of lots of people moving

14:55

from place to place, lots of everybody

14:57

shares tips and know,

14:59

resources and all aspects of the

15:01

business. And I I think consultants are

15:03

are no different. I'd like

15:04

to say that we do a good job and people

15:07

think that we we do a good job and share our name with

15:09

their friends and their the other colleagues

15:11

and and just we continue to build a book

15:13

of business and and good loyal

15:15

clients. we'd like to luckily,

15:17

we've been working with lots of these brands

15:19

for lots of years, you know, historically

15:21

as well as, you know, over the past fifteen years as

15:23

they've all grown and we've kinda grown with them.

15:26

So we That's the best way. When

15:27

they call you back for the next project, that's

15:30

always always a good sign. Mhmm.

15:32

It's kinda like a contractor. Right? It's

15:34

like if I can have a kitchen done once. But if I

15:36

don't like your tile work, I'm not gonna have you come

15:38

back. Right? Exactly. Get all the little

15:40

details. One bad experience and and you're done.

15:42

So I think that's kind of a testament to

15:44

the the level of work that we do that they

15:46

keep keep calling us back. So that's good for

15:48

us. Yeah. And

15:48

the word-of-mouth doesn't hurt either. Yeah.

15:51

Exactly. Yes. So can you mention all those

15:53

names, you know, some new buildings, some

15:55

old this and that? What the as an

15:57

architect, what do you what's get you going?

15:59

Do you like

15:59

rehaving something old? Or would you like

16:02

a blank campus, like bar soap and bourbon

16:04

company? I'm just trying to dig and say,

16:06

who's your favorite client? And who's not gonna

16:08

I'm kidding. But you know, what I

16:10

guess, what kinda do you like preferred a

16:12

a new design blank canvas or

16:14

existing working with an an existing

16:16

structure? What do

16:17

you wanna take that one? Oh, man.

16:20

I don't know. It it

16:22

depends. In

16:23

a lot of ways, an old building you know

16:25

what you've got to work with, you know where the

16:27

where the strengths of that building are

16:29

visually and, you know,

16:30

you sort of try

16:32

to to bring those to life in a lot of

16:34

ways, a a new project is is

16:36

harder because you're inventing it from scratch.

16:39

But

16:39

at the same

16:39

time, you can put things wherever you want.

16:42

Right? You can set things up to

16:44

be maximized, and I think that's something

16:46

that we've really started

16:48

perfecting is the

16:50

process, not just what the building

16:52

looks like, but understanding the

16:54

flow of materials from

16:56

coming in as grain to leaving in the

16:59

barrel and even coming back for

17:01

for bottling and things like that. So

17:03

you know, they both have their advantages. I think,

17:05

you know, as architects and

17:07

go into architecture school, you always sort

17:09

of lean towards that more modern design, I

17:11

would think, if if we were gonna start

17:13

our own distillery something like that, but we'll take

17:15

any pride

17:16

here. So talk

17:18

about, like, you know, you said Angel's in

17:21

the old forest or mictors. You know, mictors had

17:23

the, you know, the whole collapse

17:25

and all this during

17:27

And then Well, take them,

17:29

like, well, the fairway or I mean, I just took a long

17:31

time, you know, out Forrester had their share problems with

17:33

the fire and this and that, like, you

17:35

know, talk about, like, I guess,

17:38

how whiskey rose is Whiskey, I'm not

17:40

-- Yeah. -- is not stable.

17:43

Knocketta. I guess going

17:45

through, like, working

17:46

with the historical boards, like, trying to keep everything, I

17:49

guess, original as much as possible,

17:51

how big a challenge is that?

17:53

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I'll take

17:55

that one. Yeah. I it's

17:57

a challenge and opportunity. I mean, you know, it's

17:59

those

17:59

buildings are they are architecturally

18:02

significant. The facades are are

18:04

really important you know, a lot of those buildings, warehouse

18:07

buildings. You know, most of the ones that we've been in, there

18:09

isn't a whole lot on the inside that's

18:11

necessarily architecturally significant, I'd say, they're

18:13

mostly because they're warehouses. But the,

18:15

you know, keeping that context is really important to

18:17

the city and making sure those facades and, you

18:19

know, and that's why their people are attracted to

18:22

it. the view from the public way and what you see and

18:24

and how can we how can we re

18:26

enliven those facades for the uses

18:28

today, you know, and the good

18:30

good growth that we're seeing in the industry and bring

18:33

life back to to those Whiskey Row buildings

18:35

is fun and and but challenging. I

18:37

mean, you said lots of structural issues that need

18:39

to be dealt with. Yeah. because wasn't there a time

18:41

that wasn't there, like, an arson fire that

18:43

happened? Like, the guy that owned part of that

18:45

whiskey row wanted to set it on fire or something

18:47

to collect

18:48

wouldn't even ask me. Yeah. I was like, I'm

18:50

good. It's kinda smart because there was a big fire down

18:53

there. It seemed like a gun was going on. There was. zero.

18:55

Every every

18:56

every six months or something. Exactly.

18:59

What setback can we have this week?

19:01

Provera's office was actually right behind that,

19:03

and we were supposed to

19:05

be starting the old Forrester project, like the next

19:07

week, had the the

19:09

groundbreaking ceremony and the whole thing. And next

19:11

thing, you know, we look

19:12

at the window and the buildings are on fire.

19:15

which

19:15

was kinda crazy.

19:16

Now I don't know about the conspiracy. Yeah.

19:18

It was a arson. everything's out

19:20

there. Let's see it sticks. We heard, you know,

19:23

it was contractor accident or whatever? That too.

19:25

But, yeah, actually, it was lucky that the project

19:27

hadn't started because it was

19:29

just the facades of

19:31

of the old Forrester project. there,

19:33

we hadn't

19:33

built, you know, the the rest of the buildings behind it

19:35

yet. So the fire wasn't able to

19:38

jump to go all the way down the block.

19:40

Otherwise, that battle block would be

19:42

gone. So unfortunate for the

19:44

start of our project to delay it by a couple years

19:46

because they had to rebuild the buildings

19:47

next to it because they were braced across.

19:51

but just adds to the to the story.

19:53

Yeah. More character at the end of the

19:55

bill. Yeah. Yeah. Real. So

19:57

definitely more expensive. Yeah. I

19:59

would I would think

19:59

so. So when we talk about this the

20:02

process, if Ryan and I, we

20:04

wanna go and start our our distillery and we're

20:06

like, hey, we're gonna or are calling these guys the the

20:08

beautics of the architecture world of

20:10

distillery making over here. Where does it start?

20:12

Like, how do how does those conversations

20:14

begin? or does it start to say how much money

20:16

do you have? Like, where where does that where does

20:18

that conversation start? That's not always a bad place to

20:20

start. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a

20:22

good way to weed out. Yeah. Yeah.

20:25

Yeah. The you know, really the you

20:27

know, so

20:27

first thing we always wanna do is what's your goals

20:29

for the project? You know, what Is this

20:31

a production facility? Is it only a production facility?

20:34

Is it a visitor center? Mostly

20:36

visitor center? You know, what's the

20:38

production really for most of them in the

20:40

visitor interaction, it really sort of starts the

20:42

conversation. You know? And then and then we

20:44

do you know, then how much money do you have? because

20:46

we do need I mean, because it's there is there's a

20:48

pretty big what starts

20:49

like a starting point where you're like, alright, I

20:51

can take these guys serious or, no,

20:53

Ryan, can you're full of shit? Let's, you know, move

20:55

on. We're not gonna waste time with them.

20:57

kinda depends on the goals, you know. So if you're

21:00

just gonna build out a a visitor center, a

21:02

small little visitor center, you know, in the

21:04

existing building. Yeah. So it's a we'll do this first

21:06

PM. We'll play we'll play scenario. Like,

21:08

build no distillery. Alright. So

21:10

we wanna produce

21:11

about twenty five barrels a day, and we

21:13

want a gift shop, and we want

21:16

Probably what? A hundred

21:19

visitors to come in the day or something like that.

21:21

Maybe something get a tasting room. In a tasting

21:23

room or something like that. Alright.

21:24

Help us help us with our goal.

21:28

Oh, gosh. Yeah. That's

21:30

this is the same that we avoid this conversation with our

21:32

clients too. How much is gonna a we had.

21:34

And we're gonna be on Main Street.

21:37

Well, that

21:38

helps. Yeah. I mean, you know, twenty

21:40

five barrels a day. That's that's a

21:42

that's a decent, you know, crap story.

21:44

You know, that's that's a couple million dollars, I'd

21:46

say. It's in that range. Okay. You know,

21:49

there's

21:49

lots of details. Lots of other details.

21:51

No. We are not we

21:53

are not investors. No. We got it. And

21:55

that's kind of the thing. If we

21:57

start you know, if you came to us and said, oh, I've got

21:59

a hundred thousand

22:00

dollars and I need all this stuff, then

22:02

we'd say, no. You're not gonna get it. I mean,

22:04

it's just not gonna be safe. It's not gonna be

22:06

good for your visitors, not gonna be good for your brand.

22:09

At that point, we may steer you towards,

22:11

you know, contract distilling with somebody, build

22:13

your brand up till you have some more money or

22:15

fundraise or something. you know, if you say, well, I've

22:17

got a million dollars. So then we say, okay. Well, let's

22:19

let's figure out what you can get for that, you know,

22:21

what all is included in that.

22:23

So there's there's a lot of back and forth it's not

22:25

always a hard no. I'm not gonna work

22:27

with you. So when you are talking about

22:30

those initial goals of saying, okay, we're

22:32

gonna have more production versus

22:34

more of showroom or something

22:36

like that. When I when I think of what was done

22:38

at Angel's Envy, I think it's the perfect balance

22:40

of a lot of that. I mean, you've got production

22:43

there. Granted, that production is just

22:45

a very very small percentage of what Angel's

22:47

entity needs to be able to fulfill their market, but

22:49

it also gives them a tasting room, it

22:51

gives them a gift shop experience, gives them

22:53

all that. how did you work with them to try to figure out

22:55

what does that goal look like? Not just them

22:57

particular, but anybody that says, like, this is how

22:59

do we work towards the goal or what you wanna do? How

23:01

do you figure out those numbers or

23:03

like say, like, is this the production amount you want? Is

23:05

this the visitor traffic you want? Like, how do

23:07

you help figure out those goals? Yeah. I

23:09

mean, with most

23:10

distilleries, and I'll I'll I'll show up

23:12

and let Eric jump in here. Let's get but

23:14

we're planning most

23:15

of these distilleries for visitor

23:18

traffic in terms of the space

23:20

planning. I'm sure it's changed over a lot few

23:22

years if that's probably the main goal a lot

23:24

of people have now. It's one

23:26

of the big Yeah. I'm well, and also people a

23:28

lot we get a lot of people who say, we're never gonna

23:30

have anybody coming in here. There's no you know, this is

23:32

just production blah blah blah and

23:34

Blah. and yeah. Then they they

23:36

get it half built and they're like, well, how are we gonna get a

23:38

tour through here? Wait wait a minute. You

23:40

said there were no visits Exactly.

23:43

So that's yeah. That's something we plan out from the

23:45

beginning as we always, you know, figure out,

23:47

okay, well, how how can we get ten

23:49

to twelve fifteen people around

23:51

this equipment in various spots

23:53

regardless

23:53

of what, you know, what they're planning for because you

23:56

you're gonna wanna show off whether it's

23:58

whether it's actually consumers or

23:59

customers for the for the bourbon industry, they're

24:02

they're gonna bring somebody there to show off

24:04

their their equipment.

24:06

What

24:06

about when they ask you if we're gonna set barrels on fire in

24:08

our visitor experience in downtown? Like,

24:11

Old Forester, for

24:14

example. Yeah. you have

24:16

enough money, we can make anything.

24:18

Yep. There's a lot of probably fire suppression

24:20

things to put in there and everything like that to

24:22

to sort of make that happen. Okay.

24:25

So you figured out the goals. You started

24:27

figuring out what's this you know,

24:28

what do you want it to look like? How

24:30

do you get to the actual design

24:32

phase to figure out the tasting

24:34

parsing over here. But your bottling is gonna

24:36

be over here. Like, how how how does that

24:38

all work? Because I'm sure just from a from

24:40

when we had the other guys on from mechanical perspective,

24:42

there's a lot happening. But how do you start sitting

24:44

there and figure out how do we arrange this

24:46

sort of stuff? Sure. You know, and I think

24:48

with our experience, we know a

24:50

lot about how how things flow

24:53

and that helps. So, you know, you've

24:55

got the

24:55

parameters, you've got all that. A lot of times, somebody

24:57

calls up and say, Alright. I

24:59

got a twelve inch column still. You know, that's to be honest,

25:01

that's almost enough of a jumping off point

25:04

for us to to start going. As

25:06

far as the design architecture

25:08

goes, And I

25:09

always ask for some sort of precedent.

25:11

Like, what do you like? What have you

25:13

been to? Do you

25:14

have any images of of a feel

25:16

or a a design? aesthetic

25:19

that you're looking for. And this is something

25:21

that back in architecture school, that's kind of

25:23

the first piece of any project.

25:24

As you you get precedent imagery,

25:27

you get whether that

25:29

be an actual completed building or just, you

25:31

know, material or whatever it

25:33

is, you can get that inspiration from

25:35

from anything. So that's

25:38

kind of where we start with clients. A lot

25:40

of times, they have a good idea of what

25:42

they want, whether they know how to express it

25:44

or not. So it's kind of our job

25:48

to sort of usher them through that and

25:50

come up with the ideas. Now

25:52

how that happens?

25:53

It's it's

25:54

almost, you know, there's an there's

25:56

an art aspect to

25:58

it. I would say,

25:58

where you don't really

26:00

know until until you see it. And

26:02

we've had

26:03

that happen on a lot of our

26:05

projects. Fred

26:07

b, no one, I think, would be a

26:09

good example where we were going

26:11

down a different path. We thought that was

26:13

the way to go.

26:15

and then one of the guys in the office had

26:17

this sorta stroke of genius and we're like, no,

26:19

that's it. Right there. And so we took

26:22

that one image and and the client loved

26:24

it. And the rest

26:24

is finished with that with the new craft distiller

26:27

direct? Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Definitely.

26:29

Yeah. Can you go into detail a little bit more about, like, what

26:31

was that stroke of genius or what was that

26:33

thing that made it sort of hit the

26:35

mark. Man, that's tough

26:35

to describe, I guess. So it

26:38

just comes

26:38

from the air. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's

26:40

it's not ambulance aura. Yeah.

26:43

Yeah. I think with Jim

26:45

Beam, it was it was tough because, you

26:47

know, they have such a long history

26:49

and and there's such

26:51

a

26:51

certain design aesthetic associated with

26:54

that. But we also knew that there this was

26:56

supposed to be the new, you know,

26:58

high end distillery. So how

27:00

do you respect that history, but

27:02

also bring it in to the future

27:04

and and to the modern times. And

27:06

so that gable form that sort of pulled

27:08

apart in the middle, and that's where

27:10

you you go into the distillery, it sort

27:12

of captured all that. And so

27:15

I don't know how to, you know, necessarily,

27:17

like, there's no check box or anything. It's

27:19

just one of those things where gathered

27:21

around one of the computers in the office and

27:24

no. This is it.

27:25

Looks awesome. So,

27:26

like, like, little details of, like, certain

27:29

projects. Like, I'm just looking through this book and, you

27:31

know, like, Old Forester has, like, the elevator, you

27:33

know, that goes follows the still all the way up,

27:35

you know, in the the the warehouse and all

27:37

that. Like, how much of that is,

27:39

like, them saying, we want an

27:41

elevator that goes up or we

27:43

want this or that or how much are you all

27:45

saying? Like, you know, it'd be really cool as you get this

27:47

long let's follow it up with an elevator.

27:49

Like, who kind of leads that process,

27:51

you know, coming up with, like, creative

27:53

one off ideas for each place?

27:55

Yeah. I

27:55

mean, with each project, every every project, it's

27:57

a it's a team effort, you know. So lots

27:59

of times

27:59

clients will come with ideas, will come with ideas.

28:02

Several of those projects we had exhibit

28:04

designers that were involved in

28:06

interior designers, from

28:08

our team or other teams, with

28:09

any

28:10

good project, it'll be a collaboration.

28:12

So it's never if

28:14

we come show up at a first meeting and we have

28:16

the answer right, then then we're

28:18

all wrong. Right? So have you strike

28:20

have you strike gold on the first? Yeah. If you're

28:22

the smartest person in the room, leave the room

28:24

or something. Exactly. That's exactly right.

28:27

Yeah. So it's never you know, it's

28:29

lots of times, we'll take germs of their

28:31

ideas. They'll, you know, we'll we'll come up with something

28:33

and and see bounce several ideas off

28:35

the client and see what what resonates, what

28:38

doesn't. It's an iterative process. So it's there's

28:40

a lot of back and forth sort of a it's

28:42

kind of a spiral moving forward. You know,

28:44

well, we'll go in circles, but we're we're

28:46

continuously moving forward just kind of the idea. What

28:48

are some ideas where you're like, that's not

28:51

gonna happen? wait.

28:53

Yeah. The column still pokes out the top of

28:55

the building. We've seen that a couple times. Yeah.

28:58

Oh. Sketch is They're like, no.

29:00

never really thought about

29:02

the adverse effects of the weather

29:04

and stuff like that. Yeah. Well, it's

29:06

just, you know, I think

29:08

people they just

29:09

think, oh, it's just this column still.

29:12

There's an

29:12

amazing amount of piping and and

29:15

connections and that sort of stuff

29:17

that has to go that sometimes

29:19

we we hide it, sometimes we show it off,

29:21

but they're ideas. So that's fine.

29:23

It's a it's a starting point. when you

29:24

are talking to some of these clients, I mean, Brian just

29:27

mentioned Old Forests, you have the elevator

29:29

going up. And a lot of

29:31

people need to have sort of like this thing

29:33

that's really like a focus point

29:35

or that differentiates them

29:37

from somebody else. Is that

29:39

a typical conversation that comes up and

29:42

and so of how do you lead that conversation or figure

29:44

out how how do we make this different?

29:46

The one thing that I always try to say

29:48

is that you can go to all of these places and get

29:50

the fifty one per corn tour is what we always call

29:52

the generic thing. But there's always

29:54

something there that they wanna

29:56

gravitate towards make people see like this is what makes

29:58

us different. So how does how does

29:59

that happen? most

30:01

time that's coming from their brand. You know, so we're we, you know,

30:03

at the beginning of each project, assuming they have

30:05

already have a brand and that they're

30:08

it's

30:08

it's playing off of what they

30:11

differentiate themselves by. So

30:13

if somebody is secondary

30:15

aging, you know, that's gonna be the

30:17

the key

30:17

focal point of the project, or if

30:19

they're doing something special with their their

30:21

column, or if they're doing something with their, you know, the

30:23

special double or something. Those

30:25

are gonna that try to emphasize in

30:27

the building, to reemphasize

30:29

their brand, you know, because at the

30:31

end of the day, the product is what

30:34

we're all

30:34

there to celebrate. So that's that's

30:35

what we wanna do this. And and that helps them tell

30:38

their story on their tour.

30:40

If you're

30:40

emphasizing

30:41

something verbally on your tour, but the

30:43

architecture doesn't reflect that. It's hard for

30:45

that story to connect with visitors. So

30:47

that's usually the starting point for us is, okay,

30:49

what's special about your urban. You tell

30:51

me your

30:51

story and then we're gonna sort of

30:54

embody that in the architecture is the idea.

30:56

It's special fermentation tanks. Right? That's

30:58

right. You know, supervised permanars

31:00

are special. No. I was look another

31:02

client that you all had was Luxe Rowan. I think

31:04

they were one of the first with, like, the glass kind

31:06

of side of the warehouse.

31:08

And

31:08

and then now you see, like, everybody's

31:11

doing, you know, a glass warehouse at

31:13

at some point. Who who kind of

31:14

who started that idea? like, we should look

31:17

out to that level of concern. was from Don

31:19

Lux. Right? And that was his idea to pull

31:21

some Yeah. To pull back and have and

31:23

I have those seeing all the whole thing

31:25

on the side. Yeah. And that was kind of the one

31:27

that started it, but then, you know, the

31:30

the Heaven Hill one that has a kind of

31:32

glass on the corner. And then if you've been

31:34

the parts on Bourbon recently,

31:36

the entire end of a building is

31:38

glass, which is, you know, or

31:40

just keep taking it a step further every time. Before

31:42

you know it, it's just a a whole thing and a

31:44

whole thing. Exactly. I

31:47

don't know. There's a there's a fine line. You want you don't want

31:49

it to be

31:51

cheaper or

31:52

showy or Disney world, I

31:54

guess. You know? So you want you wanna have a certain

31:56

authenticity to it. And then, you know, you try to

31:59

pick up on what's there as well.

32:01

So that's something that

32:03

bar some bourbon, for example, you know, we have

32:05

the the very modern distillery

32:07

and then the bottling building, which is

32:09

kind of much more of a industrial

32:13

modern, but functional. I mean, the the

32:15

building is designed to function.

32:17

And then, you know, they said, okay.

32:19

Well, we're gonna do these warehouses across

32:21

front of the property. How do we tie all this together? And so

32:23

they trusted us to to come up with some

32:25

ideas for that and seems to

32:27

be working

32:27

out. Really cool. So

32:30

another question I kinda had for you also, we're

32:32

not architects and we're not gonna ever claim

32:34

to do that. But for any of

32:36

the sort of listeners out there that are kinda

32:38

super nerds and super fans of like the

32:40

scientific aspect of things.

32:42

Talk about some of those sort of like

32:44

constraints that you have to work in when

32:46

you're trying to design, move,

32:49

architect and and put things in their

32:51

position. Like, what are those constraints that you have to

32:53

figure out?

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sixty five.

34:20

So

34:26

another question I

34:26

kinda had for you also. We're not architects, so we're

34:28

not gonna ever claim to do that.

34:31

But for any of the sort of listeners out there that are kind

34:33

of super nerds and super fans of, like, the

34:36

scientific aspect of

34:38

things, talk about some of those

34:40

sort of like constraints that you have to work in when you're trying to design,

34:42

move, architect,

34:46

and and put things in their position? Like, what are those constraints that you have figure

34:48

out? How much time do you have? Yeah.

34:50

Well, what what engineer working

34:54

with you.

34:56

Yeah. Those guys over Shiriltate are no good.

34:59

Yeah. Yeah. Well,

35:02

they're all called separated mixed use occupancy buildings. And

35:04

this is kind of really getting into the

35:06

the nerdy side of it.

35:07

But there's different

35:10

classifications within a distillery that you

35:12

probably don't see really anywhere

35:14

else. I mean, essentially,

35:16

it's a chemical factory. It's

35:19

it's a oil refinery or whatever, that you're

35:22

gonna bring the general public into, which is

35:24

not common. So

35:26

you have different classification.

35:28

So, you know, for instance,

35:30

the firm enter room isn't super high

35:32

hazard, so that can just be a

35:35

factory setting. whereas the still tower

35:37

and where you're filling the barrels,

35:39

the cistern room is more high hazard because

35:41

you have that that high

35:43

proof alcohol. So there's a separation that has to happen between those,

35:45

and that's usually in the in the form of a

35:48

rated wall. Alright.

35:50

You gotta explain. I don't know what a

35:52

rated wall is. Okay. So you got it. You got it. You got

35:54

it. Big school list here on these stuff. Sure. So there's

35:56

different ways of achieving what a rated wall

35:58

is. So in a lot of distilleries, that's

35:59

just what the concrete masonry block, cinder block is what

36:02

it, you know, kind of the layman's term.

36:04

It's it's concrete masonry unit is

36:06

is the real

36:08

name. So that's normally how it's achieved or, I mean, to be

36:10

honest, just regular old drywall

36:12

is can provide one hour to

36:14

two hour rating depending on how many layers of it

36:16

that you put

36:18

on wall. So usually is, you know, one of

36:20

those two two

36:20

things is how is how we achieve

36:22

it. Or what are you writing against

36:25

the heat or the fire. Fire. Okay. So it's

36:28

yeah. So the yeah. The ratings

36:30

are for it's a how

36:32

long the

36:32

the wall will stand up to a fire?

36:34

So

36:35

it's, you know, one hour, two hour, three hour wall. If for a

36:37

fire will burn from Yes. Go ahead. How feel

36:39

really quick? out wall right at four

36:41

versus the center block. Okay.

36:44

Yeah.

36:44

It depends on the pieces. I mean Yeah. Just a

36:46

regular drywall on two sides of a

36:48

wall is is an hour rated. You

36:51

start adding layers of drywall that can get up to two or

36:53

three hours. And that's including the studs between

36:56

them. Correct. Gotcha. Okay. There's and there's

36:58

UL. You may have seen

37:00

that on any appliance or anything like that. That's they have ratings

37:02

for wall assemblies in in

37:04

the same way. So we call

37:06

out it's this wall,

37:08

it's UL, 419

37:10

or whatever it is, and we have

37:12

those drawings in our

37:12

sets of drawings, and that explains it.

37:14

And because you have to have

37:17

fireproof, like,

37:17

switches, outlets, light bulbs, everything.

37:20

Right? We're now really getting into it. Yeah. Please

37:22

do. Yeah. So in those

37:24

high hazards spaces. So

37:26

the the steel tower, the cistern

37:28

room, there are requirements

37:30

for rated

37:32

electrical components. So if

37:34

you ever go into a still tower, a

37:36

sister in room where they're filling barrels, you'll

37:38

notice, like, the light

37:40

fixtures are much more bulky and they're all

37:42

sealed up. Same with, you know, any plugs or anything like

37:44

that. And that's to prevent any

37:46

spark that could, you know, light

37:48

something on

37:50

fire. So that's part of what we

37:52

do. That's also, you know, the

37:54

engineers also come into play there.

37:56

And then, you know, there's

37:58

another layer of

38:00

code that the steer distilled

38:02

spirits council discus, and you

38:04

may be familiar with them. Just

38:06

because this is, you know, in the normal

38:08

building code, they don't specifically describe

38:10

distilleries. It's kind of a special thing. So

38:12

when it comes to that, they basically just

38:14

say follow best practices, industry standards,

38:18

and the Distilled Spirits Council is where we get those standards.

38:20

It's funny you say all this stuff. It's

38:22

like it's now starting to

38:24

to piece the puzzle together

38:26

in my head because any distiller that

38:28

we go to, you always have to

38:30

walk through a door to actually go

38:32

to the still and you go in there and

38:34

it's freaking three thousand degrees. And then you you're out of there and you're going

38:36

out to the next door to go to the whatever,

38:38

you know, fermentation tank room

38:40

or anything like that. They everything

38:43

that sort of segments that were Yeah. And that's

38:45

kind

38:45

of the challenge for our job just to figure out how

38:48

do we because, you know, that's that still

38:50

is the usually

38:50

the money shot. You know, that's what everybody wants to show off. That's where they spend all their money. That's where

38:53

the, you know, the product becomes kind

38:55

of the the product. so

38:57

for us, you know, being able to show that off

39:00

without but still be safe is

39:02

is a lot of the challenge. So, you know, there's lots

39:04

of different ways we go about that,

39:06

whether it's fire rated glass or fire shutters that we

39:08

that they close a case of emergency

39:10

to separate that out because that's

39:14

ultimately, that's biggest part of

39:16

our job is to keep everybody safe. I mean,

39:18

that's, you know, the the fun stuff

39:20

is is secondary to our

39:22

our primary goal,

39:24

primary responsibility. to keep everybody safe. And when you know, flammable

39:26

liquid being processed with

39:28

tourists coming and going, that's

39:32

a it's a high threshold to to maintain. Then the other

39:34

goal of showing it

39:35

all off and making sure it's fun and exciting and

39:37

people can see it in aesthetically pleasing.

39:40

Absolutely. Exactly.

39:42

Yeah. Or the old guys in the office would have never, you know, the

39:44

guys, you know, back in the thirties. This was never

39:46

a thing. You know, this where I

39:49

urban tourism. functional functional functional functional.

39:51

Exactly. crank it out and get it in a bottle. Let's go.

39:53

You know, what do you wanna come see? There's nothing

39:55

to see here. So that was never never a thing

39:57

of, you know, until relatively recent history. Yeah.

39:59

Yeah. So fire is one constraint.

40:01

Right? So

40:04

what's what's another one that you have to figure out. That's that's pretty common

40:06

that you all have to sort

40:08

of navigate. ADA

40:10

makes you a

40:12

tourist side of things, you know, having visitors

40:14

come through, we've got to follow the Americans

40:16

with Disability Act. So probably

40:19

ten years ago, there was lots

40:21

of work out there retrofitting

40:23

old distillaries to four tours, you know,

40:25

because you've gotta make sure you have an equal

40:27

opportunity for people. of different

40:30

handicaps to be able to see the same tour that everybody

40:32

else does. And with these old

40:34

facilities, that that wasn't really the It

40:36

was never a thing. So you know, there's

40:38

there's several facilities out there that have

40:40

lots of strange ramps that go, you know, around

40:42

the facilities that you kinda if you if you ever take

40:44

a minute to look at it, go why why the world's out

40:46

there is because distillery was there and

40:48

then we had to retrofit it back to to make

40:50

it work. And now you see a lot of

40:52

distillaries that are saying, alright, just tear it

40:54

down and we'll rebuild the visitor center, and we'll just start from scratch.

40:56

Is that because it's well, A, they're seeing

40:58

the demand, but as well as for

41:00

constraints like that

41:02

as well. Yeah. A lot of it's for

41:04

demand, you know, and and there's there tends to be a within the industry kind of an arms

41:06

race of of your main competitors doing one

41:08

thing, you know, and it just did a new

41:12

and brand new building, then then, by golly, we should do

41:14

it too. Why can't why can't if they can have it, why can't

41:16

we have a new shiny object? It helps

41:18

it helps when they they go into their

41:21

brand meetings and they're saying, I look

41:23

at all these competitors, look at what they're doing, and

41:25

then it's pictures of our projects. So who

41:27

did this stuff? And then and then we get the

41:29

phone call. So that that works out you. What did what

41:31

did you think when you

41:31

saw the bourbon pyramids? because

41:34

I know you all didn't do it. Did or you,

41:36

like, That

41:38

can't

41:38

happen or That can't happen or the I don't know. I'm curious because

41:41

Obviously, it never happened, but and maybe it

41:43

will. Well, that's that

41:45

is one of clients. Oh, it is. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a,

41:47

you know, good partner of ours, the sugar bound

41:50

architects were the were the local architects on that.

41:52

Oh, okay.

41:54

See. Class hurt. It's Alcon's back. Alcon's back to

41:56

these guys. They're they're they got their claws hooked

41:58

in everywhere. Yeah. We're

42:00

trying. No. That is a that's

42:02

a unique unique chapter.

42:04

Yeah. Yeah. And they do a lot of

42:06

wood structures. So the

42:08

shape of it is not necessarily

42:10

as striking

42:12

to in terms of making it happen as as how to

42:14

do it out of wood. Right. You know,

42:16

so building a a processing

42:18

plant, you know, for alcohol is highly flammable

42:20

inside of wood structure. a few

42:22

challenges. The building that

42:24

is

42:24

Yeah. Those but but why are

42:26

you making it out of wood? That doesn't that

42:28

doesn't even register because it it's just not

42:31

on the radar. So it'll be interesting when it when it's

42:33

all said and done. Yeah. Yeah. So I

42:35

got another question. So you have, you know, a

42:37

lot of these massive distillaries

42:39

that you work

42:40

for. Then you also have on the other side, you had something

42:42

like Jetpackite, a little bit smaller

42:44

smaller scale, but kind of

42:47

clean slate. So kinda talk about how that one was a

42:49

little bit different project than say

42:51

four roses when you're retrofitting something

42:53

from nineteen o nine in there. Sure.

42:55

Yeah. Jeff's Creek was one of was one of my projects.

42:57

So they you know, starting

43:00

a a new distillery from

43:02

scratch provides some

43:04

it's just different when you have a brand that's already

43:06

established versus one that's up and

43:08

coming or one that's not even on the

43:10

shelves yet with different, you know,

43:12

different companies. So we really

43:14

delve into the lots lots of time when we try to get

43:16

into their packaging or what their story is gonna be,

43:18

you know, because you don't wanna be building an

43:20

ultra modern facility if they're if they're

43:22

going, you know, more on the traditional

43:24

social science. Yeah. You know, so

43:26

that's a lot where, you know, like Eric was saying,

43:28

we come asking them for inspiration images.

43:30

What do you like? What's what's

43:32

your branding gonna be? What's your label looking like? You know, a lot of times we'll

43:35

have ads that are already out if they're producing something. You know,

43:37

what's your ad look like? You know,

43:39

if you're if you're is

43:41

different if you're showing pictures of the

43:43

beach, if you're drinking on the beach. Of course. You

43:45

know, somewhere, somebody drinking in the woods. You know,

43:48

it's just a different So you you try to

43:50

play off that and figure out, you know, where are they

43:52

stylistically. You know, because this is gonna be

43:54

their home. You know, it's just like everybody's, you

43:56

know, like a personal house. This is gonna

43:58

be their their home for their brand and it needs to last a

43:59

long time for their their different branding.

44:02

So we try not you know, there's a balance there

44:04

between doing

44:06

two stylistic because marketing

44:07

does change. I mean, they're gonna change, you know,

44:10

labels and and sort of thing. But at, you know, the heart of

44:12

everything, they're gonna they're gonna be

44:14

more of a traditional brand or

44:16

they're gonna be more of a cutting edge

44:18

brand. You know, and and you try to figure out where that

44:20

that balance is architecturally to to

44:22

make it work for them. nobody ever says I want

44:24

the Corona lifestyle here in the middle of

44:26

eastern Kentucky or something like that.

44:28

Nice job. Yeah. Yeah.

44:30

Yeah. Beachfront property and Shelbyville.

44:32

Yeah. So, I mean, I I kinda see you have some some documents here in

44:35

front of you. What's what's what we have here?

44:37

Yeah. So we were digging so

44:40

preparing for this. You were digging through some of our old documents here and

44:42

and found so this is we

44:44

found some old letters from this

44:47

is from the president

44:50

of old premise distillery, which

44:52

now for

44:53

roses. So this one was a reference

44:55

that we asked them to write apparently

44:57

in in nineteen fourteen for a project, but you can

44:59

see it's got the it's got

45:02

their their logo on the top there and it's from

45:04

that one's

45:06

you know, basically giving us a reference to how good we did on their distillers.

45:09

Yeah. Four roses back in the day.

45:11

It was a job for, you

45:14

know, done today. Number four Rosa, that's for the

45:16

reference to And it says it on I think it says it on

45:18

there. I'm sure he it was something here

45:20

in Louisville, I think. And

45:23

so I I gather question is, when you think

45:25

of something that's a a historical significance

45:27

of of something like four roses, because

45:29

they're a lot different than any other

45:31

distillery, like, in their their architecture, that's, like, sort of, that Spanish influence and stuff

45:33

like that. How do you

45:36

continue to

45:38

keep that that vibe or keep that sort of same influence going

45:40

when you just like say redid their

45:42

their new visitor center. How does that

45:46

mesh and mold. And are you kind of like,

45:48

alright. Well, we're gonna try to blend

45:50

old with the new. Like, how does

45:52

how does that all work?

45:54

That

45:54

one thematically was to the thought of the visitor center was

45:56

to be

45:57

sort of the grand manor for the facility. So

45:59

there wasn't ever,

45:59

you know, a big mansion that was on

46:02

the facility.

46:04

But when you walk on the on the campus, you know, it kinda feels like there

46:06

there should have been. Yeah. There could have been, you

46:08

know, the the master distiller up on the

46:10

hill, you know, watching over everything and in

46:13

his mansion or the owner, whoever, or they're doing

46:15

olive oil there. It's almost sometimes what it feels like

46:17

to me. It's -- Oh, yeah. -- it should be an olive oil field

46:19

behind there. Yeah. Yeah.

46:22

That's right. So we wanted to do that. You know, so they I mean, they obviously have such

46:24

a stylistic campus already,

46:25

but we didn't wanna

46:28

just copy exactly what was

46:30

there. I mean, those are commercial buildings and they were, you know,

46:32

they were designed for commercial

46:34

style. So, you know, we we really

46:36

looked back frankly, we looked back at some of our

46:38

older work residentially on that one as inspiration.

46:40

Some of the things that were being built in the in the

46:42

twenties and

46:44

teens residentially. to get influence

46:46

on on that visitor center. And and

46:48

again, it's it's sort of the visitor

46:50

center piece is always

46:52

sort of you know, you want people to feel like you're at home. This is the play

46:54

that you're you're getting invited into their

46:56

home until we kind of ran with that and,

46:58

you know, did a wraparound porridge and and it

47:00

has a

47:02

real while grand and big, a residential feel to it.

47:04

So that that was kind of the this stylistic

47:06

choice there. And do you

47:10

have all these documents that take back to the nineteen early

47:12

nineteen hundreds that you can go and

47:14

reference and say, oh, here's

47:16

here's the blueprints or, like,

47:18

I don't know if they're blueprints back there. I don't know what you would have back then. We do. We

47:20

do. So we have we have the original some of

47:22

the original drawings for the JTS Brown

47:26

distillery. We have lots of old from early

47:28

nineteen hundreds, early teens. And that was

47:30

yeah. And that's exactly so we started digging through

47:32

our old our our drawing

47:35

files of where the older projects

47:37

were and and started looking at those for

47:39

for inspiration. So Yeah. They're they're building the

47:41

CAD files on a USB drive still for

47:43

we're trying, you know. It would have been

47:46

nice in the cloud

47:48

somewhere. Yeah. It'd be ideal. Well,

47:50

then what would our turned to do all summer

47:52

long. Yeah. They've they've got to take through drawers and get

47:54

dirty and let them, you know, get the graphite all over

47:56

them. So if any other distillaries outside

47:58

of Kentucky contact you,

47:59

I mean, I'm doing designs. So I I think most of these have

48:02

been Kentucky or or

48:04

y'all's footprint outside of the

48:06

state. Yeah.

48:08

getting

48:08

calls from Texas seems to be coming in a

48:10

lot. We did just do the Distilled

48:12

Spirits Council Conference down

48:16

in Austin. and tried some, you know, some really great stuff that they're

48:18

that they're doing in

48:20

Texas. The scales of things we're

48:22

finding in in Texas

48:24

and outside of Kentucky really

48:26

are so much smaller. So they're like, oh, yeah.

48:28

We're the big dog in Texas and you look them up

48:30

and they still have, like, dirt

48:32

roads and stuff like that. So it's like but you never

48:34

know. You never know who's gonna be the next

48:36

that's bought by one of the big, you

48:38

know, liquor companies

48:40

or whatever. So, yeah, I mean, we

48:42

we send out proposals all

48:44

over. Got an email from somebody from

48:46

Scotland today. And, you know, I

48:48

I maybe they just googled distillery architecture,

48:50

and we popped up. I'm not sure. I didn't

48:52

say he was paying off. Yeah.

48:56

That's right. Yeah. That one for some reason, we said we tend to pop But

48:58

there's, you know, there's sort of getting letters hand

49:01

typed out. Yeah. Pinnacle

49:04

deal. There's, you know, that that sort of feeling out process.

49:07

Are these people serious? Are they

49:09

legit? And then you submit

49:11

a proposal? And a lot

49:13

of times you don't hear back.

49:16

Yeah. It's part of, like, any bidding

49:18

process for sure. Yeah. I don't know

49:20

if we got every proposal that we

49:22

sent out, then Yeah. We wouldn't

49:24

be sitting here. We'd be on the

49:26

beach. Or or or

49:28

or you're not charging enough? Yeah. There you go. You're

49:30

not or you're not charging enough. Yeah.

49:33

So I guess that's the the kind of the next thing

49:35

is start when you start thinking of, like, where

49:37

can where can Joseph and Joseph and

49:39

Brevera go from here? Like, is is

49:41

the goal? Like, do you all want to be known

49:43

as as the distillery architects? Like, the place

49:46

that you should be the first call if you're gonna

49:48

be serious about this? Like, what is what is your end

49:50

goal of of basically

49:52

becoming the people that people wanna call about this

49:54

this sort of

49:55

facet of the process?

49:57

Well, that's

49:57

exactly right. I mean, that's that's always the goal and

49:59

then we

49:59

hope we're we're somewhere near there

50:02

that that's where the where the

50:04

go to I

50:04

ventured to say that our portfolio of distillery work, I put up against any

50:06

other firm in the in the country of

50:08

the world, architecturally, in terms of

50:10

it wouldn't be much in there. Yeah.

50:14

And so, you know, when when a client

50:16

or potential client calls up and says we've got

50:18

a you know, we're gonna have an RFP

50:20

coming out, I welcome the chance. You know, this is great opportunity for us to

50:22

show off and, you know, and I try to get that meeting

50:24

as fast as I can because, you know What's an

50:26

RFP? I'm sorry. Press for proposal.

50:28

Press for proposal. Press for proposal. I got you on that

50:30

one. Yeah. We're competitive.

50:32

Of course. Yeah. Anytime we see a distillery

50:34

come up that's not

50:36

us for Well, they'll learn,

50:37

you know. Yeah. When it all

50:40

goes bad, don't don't call it. Yeah.

50:42

And that fixes all their problems.

50:44

Yeah. Well, no. I mean,

50:46

I think No. It's and I'd say it's a friendly rivalry. We're, you with

50:48

with anything. It's there's other firms

50:50

out there that that have done other distillaries

50:53

but not near to the to quantity. And and I'd

50:55

say quality. There you go. There you go. It's

50:57

our slide. So

51:00

is there anything in the bourbon business that

51:02

you all haven't done yet? Or have

51:05

you literally done everything? I have to

51:06

say as far as the buildings are concerned,

51:09

I think we've we've probably done every

51:10

kind of prototypical building. Yeah. I think the

51:12

hospitality thing is really coming around. So they've, you

51:15

know, they say the Napa Valley of

51:17

of Kentucky. Right? So

51:20

those campuses that that would be sort of that all inclusive,

51:22

like, people come in and they're gonna stay

51:24

at this one place, which is not usually the

51:26

case currently, but we're seeing it go

51:30

that way. where you're gonna spend a day

51:32

or there are multiple days at

51:34

one place. Usually, it's like we're gonna try

51:36

and hit three or

51:38

four distilleries in in a day, which

51:40

is difficult if if you've ever

51:42

done it. I mean, it's so I think that,

51:44

you know, on that side, the

51:46

hospitality side, hotels are one of our fastest growing

51:48

markets. A lot of that's related to

51:50

the bourbon business, but

51:52

I think

51:53

added sort of making

51:54

that jump. Yeah. We've done restaurants

51:56

and gift shops and tour

51:58

start areas and things

51:59

like that. But keeping those people

52:02

on campus and then

52:04

developing the campuses. So

52:06

whether that be a two fifty year

52:08

old campus or a brand new

52:11

campus where it's

52:12

sort of designed.

52:13

Every piece of it is designed, which, you know,

52:15

we could probably bring some of our parks experience

52:18

in when it comes to that. Well, you haven't

52:19

seen an air BNB in the

52:22

distillery yet yet. So so you still you'd

52:24

figure out some way to even elevate the

52:26

the visitor experience. That's come up, but it has never been Has it really? Yeah.

52:28

Yeah. Yeah. Is there any constraints with

52:31

having people stay on

52:34

a campus you know, there's a fact that

52:36

you don't want them or it's a distillery at, you know, eleven PM at night. Yeah. You don't want

52:38

to press the pound buttons. Yeah. Make sure everything's

52:40

locked up. That's our sonitrol. Okay.

52:44

here. Yeah. The actually, the but

52:46

TTB actually has

52:47

some problems with that. TTB and ABC. So

52:49

they've got some they've got requirements that

52:51

you can't have residents in on

52:53

the premises. So, you know, there's there's some that has been brought

52:55

up several times where lots of people, you know,

52:57

master stillers or or owners from out of town

52:59

wanting to have

53:02

an apartment you know, in the in the building, you know, somewhere for them to

53:04

stay. So we don't have to get a hotel.

53:06

And we we've that that becomes the

53:08

problem is

53:10

it's not you know, legal. So you have to figure out a way, you know, either

53:12

they usually end up with apartments somewhere nearby

53:14

or something. But but there are lots of

53:16

calls. There's a lot

53:18

of infrastructure on the urban tourism side of things missing.

53:20

There's there's lots of opportunities for

53:22

hotels and restaurants, especially when you

53:24

get to some little more rural.

53:27

places. I mean, you see that down at Maker's Market, you've they've

53:29

got, you know, restaurants down there and places, you know,

53:32

they've got a little they still have bed and

53:34

breakfast down there. Yeah. And

53:36

there's creating all these little small buildings anywhere. Like it's like it's a small campus.

53:38

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, you know, I think there's

53:40

lots of opportunity for lots of these brands

53:42

and collectively, you know,

53:44

the communities around them to to build up

53:46

their infrastructure. because we we hear a lot of

53:48

visitors who come in and and hear

53:50

and say that they, you know, they they'd

53:52

like to stay, you know, in bars town, but everything was booked up, you know, or they'd like

53:54

to say, you know, in Frankfurt or wherever it

53:57

is. because it's such a boom that

53:59

the infrastructure of

53:59

of supporting buildings

54:02

and and cast is not not in place yet even

54:04

though it's been going for a long

54:06

time in twenty years. Yeah.

54:09

love to stay on like, a

54:11

boutique, kind of person, hotel, and middle of Barcelona, bourbon's campus. So I

54:13

can just stumble, you know,

54:16

right, somewhere. Somebody had also

54:18

mentioned, like, doing a a warehouse camp

54:20

out sometime. So just having, like, a campsite,

54:22

like, literally in the middle of a field

54:24

between warehouses would be an interesting

54:26

thing. But there's I'm sure there's

54:28

plenty of leap drugs me in the boutique.

54:30

Yeah. Exactly. Alright. Where's the alright. Where's the

54:32

glamping past that? Sorry. That's that's more

54:34

more my speed. Perfect. RVs or something. Yeah. There you go. Just put the somewhere

54:36

else. Right? The whole time.

54:38

Well, guys, this is a fun

54:41

conversation to kinda get a little bit of the history,

54:44

not only of just your firm, your

54:46

families, you know, sort of pass with this as

54:48

well as kinda

54:50

knowing exactly when people will need to make

54:52

that first phone call, who do they go to, or how good is your first Google result

54:55

for Distillery Architect. it's

54:58

awesome to be able to hear that that side of things. But before we sign off, I

55:00

want people to give an opportunity for people to

55:02

tell people how they can get in contact to

55:05

how they can learn more about you and and everything

55:07

like that too. So our website

55:09

is probably the best best way to get

55:11

a hold of us. Joseph and

55:13

Joseph and spelled out. dot

55:16

net. And there's a contact form on

55:18

there that comes directly to

55:20

cash an eye. So if

55:22

you have any questions, any any comments, you

55:24

wanna build forty

55:25

million dollars distiller inches. And, yeah,

55:27

that's that's the starting point. Yeah. That's the starting

55:29

point. We probably got it out of it. They told us

55:31

for two million dollars. Yeah. That was

55:34

a lot. two million just third portion of the mill.

55:36

Yeah. There's there's a

55:38

question. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's a lot of money that takes

55:41

people to build But guys, I wanna do

55:43

is say thank you again for for having you on telling that sort of story and and

55:45

kinda getting to know more about the architecture side

55:48

because this

55:50

is again one of those things that we haven't

55:52

touched on with almost four hundred plus episodes of doing this, and it's just

55:54

yet another thing that we like to be able to bring

55:56

to our listeners and help them sort of that education

56:00

perspective too. So and thanks for the the whole the science background thing. It's like

56:02

when we start getting those constraints, I'm like, I know

56:04

there's some listeners out there that are like, alright. I can nerd

56:06

out on this too. So Yeah. Now no

56:08

fire ratings. We know that. We're

56:10

gonna learn something today. So make

56:12

sure you check them out on their website. You can

56:14

also check out bourbon pursuit dot com. We've got

56:16

sign ups for our newsletters, follow us on

56:18

all the socials as well. But

56:20

with that cheers everybody. We'll see you

56:22

next week.