0:10

Hi, I'm Joelly,

0:10

your Branding Badass, and

0:13

welcome to Season Two of

0:13

Branding Matters. My guest today

0:17

is Amy Johnson, the Chief

0:17

Marketing Officer of Zillow, the

0:21

world's largest real estate

0:21

platform that offers customers

0:24

and on demand experience for

0:24

selling, buying, renting and

0:28

financing their homes. As CMO of

0:28

Zillow, Amy is responsible for

0:32

driving brand experiences and

0:32

growing national brand

0:36

awareness. Prior to joining

0:36

Zillow in 2018, Amy served as

0:41

Senior VP of marketing programs

0:41

and digital innovation at

0:44

Starbucks. And before that, she

0:44

held leadership roles at both

0:48

Campbell Soup Company and Sallie

0:48

Mae. I invited me to be a guest

0:52

on my show today to discuss how

0:52

she helped transform the Zillow

0:56

brand. I wanted to learn what

0:56

the secret to their huge

0:59

successes, and I was curious to

0:59

get her point of view on how

1:03

technology is changing the way

1:03

people are buying homes. Amy,

1:08

welcome to branding matters.

1:09

Thanks so much for having me.

1:11

It's so great

1:11

having you here. I'm so excited

1:13

to hear about Zillow and

1:13

everything that you guys are

1:16

doing. So before we get into

1:16

that, though, I want to learn a

1:18

little bit about you. I read

1:18

somewhere that when you were a

1:21

little kid used to watch TV, but

1:21

you only watched the TV

1:25

commercials that used to be used

1:25

to love doing that. So I'm

1:28

curious to know why that is. And

1:28

do you still do that today?

1:31

Well, thank you back. I think I'd love the snippets of color and the

1:33

singing and the sounds we put

1:35

yourself back in the 70s 80s. So

1:35

some of the ones that come to

1:39

mind are like tootsie pop, you

1:39

know, how many licks does it

1:41

take to get to the center? Of

1:41

course you're eating one

1:43

watching it going? I don't know.

1:43

Let me count. Like 250 Like it's

1:47

not three Alka Seltzer. There

1:47

was a guy that had to keep

1:49

eating meatballs and you're

1:49

like, oh my gosh, my my mom

1:52

forcing me to eat food. And I

1:52

was like, I can relate to that

1:55

my stomach doesn't feel good. Or

1:55

like, I don't know Fred

1:57

Flintstone cereal. Who does Mike

1:57

pick milk? It was almost like

2:00

all the different things that I

2:00

would watch. You can like if you

2:03

relate to them the Ginsu knife.

2:03

Oh, my God, it cuts cuts of can

2:07

and it cuts me like it's just I

2:07

don't know. I just found it.

2:10

Super interesting.

2:11

Did you used to

2:11

watch those k tell record ads

2:13

and you're younger? You tell?

2:15

I have those

2:15

albums, thank you very much.

2:18

Yeah, right. Or

2:18

I think about those infomercials

2:21

way back when it was like But

2:21

wait, hold on. There's more.

2:24

There's more.

2:26

Shelby Flowbee

2:26

was the hair vacuum your hair a

2:30

second. I watched more of those

2:30

today though. Now. I think the

2:33

world is almost I think YouTube

2:33

and Tik Tok are just big

2:36

infomercials. Oh, yeah. I'm

2:36

finding myself watching the

2:39

videos on Amazon and then tick

2:39

tock and YouTube to try to

2:42

figure out and it feels like a

2:42

back infomercial. Again,

2:45

interesting. It might be five

2:45

years what it does, and so like

2:48

a slinky.

2:50

Go on and on.

2:50

And so do you still watch it?

2:54

Like, I don't know about you,

2:54

but I don't watch nearly as much

2:56

TV as I did. Because now we're

2:56

online. And my kids don't even

2:59

watch TV. All they do is watch

2:59

YouTube. What about your kids?

3:01

Yeah, no, they

3:01

watch YouTube, they watch

3:05

basically streaming.

3:06

So when you watch those ads, or when you seen us? Do you take some of it

3:08

and use it in what you're doing

3:12

today? I mean, do you have a med

3:12

make a mental note of it? Or do

3:14

you do actual notes and think,

3:14

Oh, I like that the way they

3:16

executed that? And do you think

3:16

of it in a work way? Or is it

3:19

just more entertainment? You just enjoy them?

3:21

I think both are

3:21

super intellectually curious.

3:23

They just find them fun. Like

3:23

sometimes I look at it, like

3:25

what the heck problem are they trying to solve? Or they're trying to communicate? Other

3:27

times I'll be so engaged like

3:30

the force, you know, the, the

3:30

Darth Vader kid that gets

3:33

surprised by the VW car when it

3:33

starts because he thinks and

3:38

investigate that and go ah,

3:38

should that and the kid was

3:40

actually surprised. And so for

3:40

that, like I remember Oh, when

3:43

we're doing something like that,

3:43

where the actor actress doesn't

3:46

know, maybe we should set it up

3:46

that way like so I have an

3:49

intellectual curiosity and also

3:49

from a work perspective.

3:52

What's your background? Where did you go to university or college as they

3:54

say in the US?

3:57

I went to undergrad at Virginia Tech and I specialized in marketing and

3:59

then I got an MBA at George

4:02

Washington University. Oh, wow.

4:02

Okay,

4:04

so where are you right now? Where do you live?

4:06

I am and the

4:06

rain. nice, sunny weather always

4:10

changing city of Seattle, Washington.

4:12

I love Seattle. Not that far from Canada. I'm in Calgary. So just you know,

4:14

there's a nice, yeah. Okay, so

4:18

you been at Zillow since 2018.

4:18

And speaking of Seattle, before

4:22

that, you were at Starbucks. So

4:22

I'm assuming you were at

4:25

Starbucks in Seattle. Right? How long?

4:27

14 years.

4:28

And what did you do there?

4:30

I see you when I

4:30

was last day, or I was SVP of

4:32

digital innovation. Ran the

4:32

loyalty program launched mobile

4:36

order and pay much to

4:36

personalization platform ran

4:39

analytics for them did a lot of

4:39

that stuff. My last six years

4:43

before that. I ran beverage I

4:43

did a lot of product creation.

4:46

Oh wow. 14

4:46

years, okay. And now you've been

4:49

absorbed since 2018. So those

4:49

are two pretty huge brands.

4:53

Would you say? What do you think

4:53

there's any similarities between

4:57

the two and if there are what

4:57

would you say they differ?

4:59

Outside of the Brand awareness that you just talked about. What I have been

5:01

struck by is both companies were

5:06

founded by a group of really

5:06

core individuals that felt

5:09

passion for a thing they were

5:09

launching, right that didn't

5:12

exist in the marketplace. So you

5:12

have Howard Schultz, heartbeat

5:14

or Smith and a couple others

5:14

that wanted to bring the romance

5:17

of the Italian coffee bar, the

5:17

United States, you know, the

5:21

flavor of a latte and the third

5:21

place to sit and just chat. And

5:24

they also wanted to offer

5:24

healthcare and treat their

5:27

employees as if their partners

5:27

by giving them ways to invest in

5:30

the company. And then rich and

5:30

Lloyd and Amy and a couple

5:34

others came together for Zillow

5:34

to create a data marketplace

5:37

where everybody can see

5:37

information about any house for

5:39

sale this Believe it or not way

5:39

back when you couldn't do that

5:42

the data was fragmented all over

5:42

the place. And in addition to

5:44

data, they also wanted to create

5:44

a workplace where employees

5:47

could come together and be their

5:47

best selves every day. So it's

5:50

kind of actually quite a bit of

5:50

similarities and how the

5:53

companies came to be. And today,

5:53

they both know growth companies,

5:56

they're both trying to create

5:56

customer experiences, you know,

5:59

their, their brand is not just

5:59

the brand, right? It's it's all

6:02

the touch points that the

6:02

customer has with the company.

6:05

So they see themselves as

6:05

customer centric and driving

6:09

love to the experiences they have.

6:10

And so going

6:10

from Starbucks to Zillow, what

6:13

has been the biggest change

6:13

would you say the biggest

6:15

difference

6:16

Biggest difference has been literally there's retail stores and the

6:17

omni channel of retail very

6:21

different than the

6:21

interconnected communications of

6:24

tech with some physical spaces.

6:24

And retailers like you're on

6:28

right now. It's holiday like

6:28

Mocha goes missing, you gotta go

6:31

find the Mocha, right? You can't

6:31

if you're consumed today, and

6:35

you need to be back tomorrow.

6:35

Like there's a there's an energy

6:38

in that space and an attack the

6:38

energy is around what's the

6:41

future, what's the way we're

6:41

going to satisfy the customer?

6:44

How are we going to bring them

6:44

in and have conversations with

6:46

them. So it's a little different

6:46

energy, the physical space, the

6:49

barista is there in intersecting

6:49

with the customer. Every day was

6:52

a little different than the

6:52

engineers that are creating

6:54

experiences behind the computer

6:54

launching things for the

6:57

customer. The energy though

6:57

growth and getting something out

7:02

there for the customer. And I

7:02

like giving them something they

7:05

don't already have in the

7:05

marketplace, that energy is

7:08

still what it is to both places,

7:10

right. And they're both pretty slick. You said they're very strong brands

7:12

and people can have a strong

7:15

connection with them right with

7:15

the internet

7:17

every day. You can interact with both businesses, coffee shop, or you

7:19

can go on Zillow, you could

7:23

snoop on your next door

7:23

neighbor's house. What's the

7:27

next house you want to have? You

7:27

know, you can you can interact

7:30

every day above?

7:31

Can you give a

7:31

little background story to the

7:33

founders and tell us about

7:33

Zillow and who they are and what

7:37

they do and what makes them I

7:37

guess in a way a disruptive

7:40

would you call a disruptive brand,

7:41

I want 100%

7:41

Because of what they did, and

7:43

bright real estate. So at heart,

7:43

it feels as if their marketplace

7:47

craters. So Rich Barton and

7:47

Lloyd Frank were both to

7:50

Microsoft employees and went on

7:50

to start Expedia. Their goal was

7:53

to bring power to the people by

7:53

providing a way for travelers to

7:56

book their own trips and access

7:56

information that was not

7:59

available to the public. So

7:59

again, go way back in the time

8:02

machine, remember, you had to

8:02

call a travel agent do a thing,

8:05

it forced the entire industry to

8:05

go digital and force the entire

8:09

digital mafia to be transparent,

8:09

like it was, it's pretty

8:13

groundbreaking when they did

8:13

that. And so after their time

8:16

and expedient, and it was

8:16

interesting, they both were

8:19

looking for their next business

8:19

venture and also happen to be

8:22

looking for a house to buy. And

8:22

so when they're shopping for

8:25

homes, they're like totally

8:25

frustrated by the home buying

8:27

process, because none of the

8:27

information is at your

8:30

fingertips. And so they created

8:30

Dillo, they realized they could

8:33

take this power the people thing

8:33

that they do with marketplace,

8:36

they could do it in the real

8:36

estate market. And so let's give

8:39

information to customers and not

8:39

just give information to

8:41

customers, because also at the

8:41

time, there was no way you can

8:44

value your own house, they

8:44

didn't even know like that house

8:47

across the street that they may

8:47

want to buy that might be for

8:49

sale, how much should they be

8:49

offering on that? So I think

8:52

what's been interesting is now

8:52

that we've kind of created this

8:55

market, we have this estimate

8:55

that exists that helps you out,

8:58

we've actually shifted the

8:58

mission, which originally was

9:01

Power to the People create the

9:01

marketplace now is unlike life's

9:04

next chapter, because can you be

9:04

sure we want to help customers

9:10

unlock their life's next

9:10

chapter. So if you think about

9:13

every address you've had is an

9:13

experience you've had and you've

9:17

moved for a reason. Generally,

9:17

people don't just like up and

9:20

move because they want to move.

9:20

There's like a birth or death or

9:22

divorce or marriage. You

9:22

graduate school, what have you,

9:25

right, as part of that is your

9:25

house, your new home, it's your

9:28

identity. It's who you are at

9:28

that moment in time. And so our

9:32

mission is not just giving you

9:32

here's the marketplace, we also

9:36

want to actually help you

9:36

realize your best self and get

9:39

you into that house that you see

9:39

is you and where you want to be.

9:44

I love that I

9:44

love that you said about it

9:46

being experiential, because

9:46

that's a big part of branding,

9:49

right? It's more than just

9:49

buying a house. It's the

9:51

experience of mine.

9:53

And our role in

9:53

that is helping people continue

9:56

to move forward. Like just keep

9:56

moving forward. Just keep

9:59

putting one foot in front We're

9:59

gonna help you with that. It is

10:01

hard, right? Like, you have to

10:01

search for the house. And then

10:06

once you search and find your

10:06

house, not just any house,

10:09

you're all of a sudden

10:09

desperately dating. And you're

10:12

not sure what to do so much

10:12

emotion you don't have the data

10:15

comes in from left field, you're

10:15

like, I don't know what I could

10:17

afford. And is this really the

10:17

right place and you start using

10:20

your data brain does start

10:20

justifying your heart. And it

10:24

gets emotional, like 30% of

10:24

people cry at some point during

10:27

the during the moving process.

10:27

So yeah, so it's, it's how can

10:30

we help make that less

10:30

traumatic, less uncertain,

10:35

people with a lot of confidence

10:35

come into the moving process and

10:40

become very quickly not

10:40

confident in themselves? Or what

10:43

they know and have you? So we

10:43

want to help our customers move

10:46

forward, help them have the

10:46

confidence help them have the

10:48

tools and the understanding, to

10:48

get through it to the other

10:51

side?

10:52

Can you share a

10:52

few things that you do to do

10:54

that to help them do that?

10:55

Mission? So we do

10:55

a lot of stuff with content. So

10:58

we have some economists that are

10:58

helping through what you need to

11:02

do to buyer buy a house sell a

11:02

house, what is it out market

11:05

look like? What is down market

11:05

look like? So we have a lot of

11:08

content. We also have different

11:08

product features that we've been

11:11

watching from on demand tours.

11:11

So you can get into a house to

11:14

see it you have 3d tours to see

11:14

which was big and COVID. Right,

11:17

you want to see that new couch, you don't want to go to people's houses, we've been streamlining

11:19

some of the back of house

11:22

services like closing services,

11:22

they should not be as difficult

11:25

as they are. So those are just

11:25

some of the things that we have

11:28

that we've been working on. But

11:28

there's over 200 different steps

11:31

in moving process. So it is

11:31

trying to work with our

11:35

customers and understanding what

11:35

the customers need next and why

11:39

Zillow should be the one solving

11:39

that for them because to your

11:41

point at brand, there's 200 plus

11:41

different steps. There's

11:45

probably another steps or

11:45

customers wouldn't go first

11:47

Zillow helping them but there

11:47

are a lot Brasil the brand in

11:50

their mind should go next. And

11:50

those are the intersections the

11:53

biggest pain points for the

11:53

customer with the biggest

11:56

reasons the biggest like kind of

11:56

allowance by customers for the

11:59

brand and the solving those

11:59

problems for them.

12:02

Let's say I was looking to buy a house, would you work with me? Or would do

12:03

you work with real estate agents

12:06

and brokers? Or do you work with both?

12:07

Well, we made a

12:07

pivot. I want to say around the

12:10

same time we changed the mission

12:10

back in 2018 19 were the people

12:15

that were servicing the

12:15

consumer. Those are our

12:18

customers, right? Everybody

12:18

Everybody in the system should

12:21

be maniacally focused on getting

12:21

a human into the home that's

12:25

right for them. Be an agent be

12:25

at Zillow be at the mortgage

12:29

lender, whomever the customer,

12:29

the one person we're serving,

12:32

that's the customer. Now we have

12:32

a ton of partnerships, right we

12:36

partner with agents, we partner

12:36

with brokerages, we partner with

12:39

mortgage houses, etc. And those

12:39

are partnerships we have. So

12:43

while we are all in service to

12:43

each other, I believe that we

12:46

come from my background of

12:46

Starbucks, you know that one

12:49

thing actually lets a customer

12:49

be happy, multiple things does

12:52

the maniacal focus on the

12:52

customer themselves and

12:55

servicing them helps them the

12:55

whole model. Start seeing where

13:00

there's opportunity for fixing

13:00

things making things smoother.

13:03

So then they're

13:03

all your partners are your

13:06

customers as well. So like for

13:06

brokers in real estate, for

13:09

example.

13:09

Yes, yes, yes, directly, but

13:11

you know what I

13:11

mean, right? Yes, yes. 100%.

13:14

Okay, cool. You mentioned

13:14

earlier book, the Zestimate. Did

13:16

I pronounce it right? Yes. In

13:16

this estimate is how you Zillow

13:22

is become a household name can

13:22

you share with the Zestimate is

13:25

and how it came about?

13:25

Sure. So back in

13:25

a time machine again, when

13:28

Zillow launched in about 2006.

13:28

Not only did it have the

13:34

information they could get on

13:34

the houses, they also launched

13:36

this estimate. In the first

13:36

three days over a million

13:38

customers came and it crashed

13:38

the site on the first day

13:41

because it was it was the first

13:41

time there was ever really

13:44

property valuation available to

13:44

people that didn't have access

13:49

to this specific MLS got to see.

13:49

So it was a really interesting

13:53

and needed feature that we had.

13:53

So specifically what is it so

13:56

it's estimates the home

13:56

valuation model that gives an

13:59

estimate of the homeless market

13:59

value? It's an estimate Zillow

14:02

estimate Zestimate Yeah, I want

14:02

to look up estimate in the

14:06

dictionary. It's not written in

14:06

stone right. Well, what's

14:12

interesting about that is we do

14:12

use a lot of information to

14:15

create it. So we have public

14:15

information, MLS information

14:19

user submitted data, we have a

14:19

formula that takes into account

14:23

all the different home facts

14:23

from you know, your your near a

14:26

major highway or your electrical

14:26

pole or you you have a view

14:30

those kinds of things I'll go in

14:30

and the nationwide error rate

14:34

which is super small for his

14:34

estimate for on market home, so

14:38

homes that need to sell is only

14:38

1.9%. I don't know too many

14:41

estimates that are that close to

14:41

like the actual price. Yes, this

14:46

actual prof market homes error

14:46

rates about 6.9% And a lot of

14:50

that is because when your house

14:50

is off market, you're not paying

14:53

attention to stuff you're not

14:53

necessarily fixing things. Oh

14:55

wait, I redid my Yeah, so now

14:55

it's four bedrooms instead of

14:59

three bedroom Wait, no, they

14:59

didn't put I had a view in

15:02

there. But I have a 180 degree

15:02

view. So the better the data on

15:05

the house, clearly the better

15:05

the estimate is, right?

15:07

We talk about

15:07

branding. Branding is about

15:10

differentiating yourself, right?

15:10

So what do you do differently

15:12

than your competitors that has

15:12

made you so successful?

15:15

Again, there's

15:15

200 Different places within this

15:18

whole moving process. There are

15:18

steps for getting a mortgage,

15:21

there's steps for doing a refi,

15:21

there's steps for looking for a

15:24

home the steps for getting a

15:24

home faster than anybody else,

15:26

there's steps to finding an

15:26

agent to step. So anywhere,

15:30

there's more than one company,

15:30

which there isn't all those

15:32

places, you're competing for

15:32

sharing voice. And so Zillow

15:36

comes in, you know, and I truly

15:36

believe this, I believe, before

15:39

it joined, I believe it now is

15:39

we're really pleased to uncover

15:41

a dream. Like you could dream

15:41

about your best self, you could

15:44

dream about the new job you're

15:44

going to take in the house, and

15:48

you're going to be in this

15:48

class, you know, set up a dream,

15:51

and a place we come into. And

15:51

from and differentiators. Yes,

15:54

you can dream with us, and we're

15:54

not gonna judge you. And you

15:57

could do it without telling

15:57

anyone if you want to, and you

15:59

could have fun doing it. And how

15:59

do we allow you to keep that

16:02

dream alive? Even when it starts

16:02

getting hard, right? How can we

16:06

just give you that pre qual on

16:06

that loan without having any

16:09

strings attached and see if you

16:09

get a pre qual, I want you to

16:12

keep dreaming. If you want to do

16:12

a remodel, you'll come online

16:15

and you can look and see how if

16:15

you approve things that could

16:19

improve or not your salary.

16:19

Yeah, so it's about it's coming

16:23

from the positive place, it's

16:23

coming from the dream space

16:26

coming from the you can do it

16:26

space, where I would say even if

16:29

you were today and started

16:29

looking at all the different ads

16:32

of mortgage companies or real

16:32

estate companies or other

16:35

places, it's about the singular

16:35

thing, right? It's about getting

16:38

the mortgage or else or being

16:38

scared. Or if you don't choose

16:41

the right thing, then Holy

16:41

smokes, you're not gonna buy

16:45

another house in 10 years,

16:45

you're gonna run for the hills,

16:48

and then you get scared. We're

16:48

really trying to come up this

16:51

way more optimistically, and not

16:51

have a Pollyanna. I mean, it's

16:54

real, like people say, it's

16:54

super hard. And change is hard.

16:58

But like, over 85% of people we

16:58

surveyed came out the other end,

17:02

and they're like, Oh, God, it

17:02

was so worth it. Like it was so

17:04

worth it. I just wish it wasn't

17:04

that hard. And so we don't have

17:08

to go to the depths of making

17:08

you feel like you don't know

17:11

what's going on to come out the

17:11

other end, we really want to

17:13

come in there from a let's keep

17:13

the dream alive, folks.

17:16

I love that. Because you know what I mentioned earlier about

17:17

emotional people crying, I mean,

17:19

moving, they say, you know, one

17:19

of the top stressors in your

17:22

life is mood. And so what I hear

17:22

from you saying all that is you

17:26

hope take some of that stress

17:26

away, and we have enough stress

17:28

with everything else going on

17:28

life. So you know what, we're

17:31

gonna make it easier for you and

17:31

less stressful for you versus

17:34

like you were saying about other

17:34

options that are just factual

17:37

and data. And here's all this

17:37

information. But but that

17:40

doesn't help I want someone to

17:40

hold my hand and take me and

17:42

show me right. So I love that.

17:42

So I can definitely see why

17:45

that's helped you guys become

17:45

successful. Zillow has eight

17:48

core values. And there was one

17:48

there that really caught my eye.

17:51

And that was customers are our

17:51

North Star. So can you share

17:55

those core values and then maybe

17:55

elaborate a bit about the

17:58

customers or north star one, the

18:00

values have been

18:00

around for leave since the

18:03

inception of the company, I'd

18:03

have to go back and double check

18:06

on that. But they're things like

18:06

Think Big Move fast. And dG is a

18:10

team sport, right? We all work

18:10

together so that things such as

18:14

that. And one of the ones that

18:14

we introduced was customers, our

18:17

Northstar. So we had lots of

18:17

things on how we interact, how

18:20

we bring innovation to life and

18:20

how we come to work as our best

18:23

selves. And then we needed one

18:23

as a customer where customer

18:26

centric, we want to focus on the

18:26

customer, as I mentioned

18:28

earlier, so that's customers

18:28

Northstar. And if you really

18:31

want to be customer obsessed,

18:31

you have to get into

18:34

understanding who the customer

18:34

is you have to understand the

18:36

circumstances or to best meet

18:36

their needs. In order to get the

18:40

innovation that's really game

18:40

changing. You have to be walking

18:43

in their shoes and understand

18:43

what's the pain point how you

18:47

solve the pain point? Will they

18:47

actually use the solution? Can

18:51

they afford it? Do they find joy

18:51

in it? And it's not just like

18:55

one or two people have to

18:55

understand that right? The

18:58

engineer that's sitting at their

18:58

desk coding has to understand

19:01

that the HR person that is

19:01

hiring people into the company

19:04

to hire the people that want to

19:04

work that way, right? The

19:07

marketing folks need to

19:07

understand from where the

19:10

customers coming in or for the

19:10

messaging and communications to

19:13

work, right. So that is a

19:13

customer's Northstar. And really

19:17

understanding the customer in a

19:17

way that we can act in service

19:20

to them is is really critically

19:20

important. Hugely important.

19:23

I mean, again, we go back to branding, I mean, that's what it's all about is

19:25

tapping into what your customers

19:28

problems are and solving them.

19:28

And you know, you mentioned

19:31

earlier, which I thought was

19:31

great as you asked your

19:33

customers what they want. You

19:33

asked about the moving process,

19:36

you ask them questions, and then

19:36

they told you what they needed.

19:39

And then you gave them that

19:39

right which is exactly what it's

19:41

all about. There's so many

19:41

companies out there that they

19:44

don't know what their customers

19:44

want. They tell their customers

19:47

what they want or what they need, but they actually don't give them what they're wanting.

19:49

So I love that you say that and

19:51

that your customer is your

19:51

Northstar because I think that

19:54

just shows to have a strong

19:54

brand. You really have to listen

19:57

to your customers and to be able

19:57

to connect with them. You have

19:59

to The problem, right and

20:01

operationalizing that I think it's important like coming from CPG and retail, you

20:03

know, CPG, you can go walk in

20:06

the grocery store and see your

20:06

product on the shelf, you can

20:08

turn it around, you can go into

20:08

customers homes, you either

20:11

using it with retail, you can

20:11

sit in a retail store and listen

20:14

by the point of sale, how

20:14

customers are interacting. When

20:17

it's more of a tech company, any

20:17

more hands on, you do have to

20:19

figure out how do you then

20:19

operationalize how you

20:22

understand the customer, again,

20:22

getting to that engineer, again,

20:24

the HR representative getting to

20:24

the marketer, you know, how do

20:27

you operationalize something

20:27

like that when the customer

20:30

you're servicing is really

20:30

interacting with you mostly

20:32

online? So that's been

20:32

interesting to figure out how to

20:34

do that. Oh, that's

20:35

great. We have

20:35

a lot of my a lot of my

20:37

listeners are small business

20:37

owners and entrepreneurs and

20:40

solopreneurs. And so as they're

20:40

listening to this, and you know,

20:43

you have obviously big budgets

20:43

and Starbucks had big budgets,

20:47

what advice would you give for

20:47

someone who, let's say doesn't

20:51

have big budgets as far as when

20:51

it comes to their branding, and

20:54

making sure that their customer

20:54

is, you know, again, their North

20:57

Star, because it really all

20:57

comes back to the customer? When

21:00

it comes to branding? It's really about your customers and your audience? Do you have any

21:02

sort of insight or advice that

21:05

you would tell someone who might be listening?

21:07

I think the first

21:07

thing we we used to this is in

21:11

any meeting or having it can be

21:11

you and two other people doesn't

21:14

really matter. have like a quote

21:14

unquote, or a real open seat at

21:19

the table for your customer and

21:19

have an open seat for your

21:22

employee filter everything

21:22

you're saying with like, does

21:24

the customer really care what

21:24

you're saying? Or is like you're

21:27

the piano teacher? And will the

21:27

employee have fun doing what

21:31

you're asking them to do? Like,

21:31

you got to be there for both

21:33

right? And then I would say you

21:33

have to, really, you have to be

21:38

really clear on what your brand

21:38

is, like, if you can't

21:42

articulate your brand, quickly,

21:42

no one's going to be able to

21:46

show what you stand for. So what

21:46

is it you're gonna stand for,

21:49

and you can use emotional words,

21:49

it's okay, you can use colorful

21:52

words, you could use data words,

21:52

you can remember everybody's

21:55

whole brain that's interacting

21:55

with you, right, they're gonna

21:58

be right and left brain gonna be

21:58

introverted and extroverted.

22:00

They're gonna like structure.

22:00

And they're like ambiguity,

22:03

there's all kinds of people out

22:03

there. So you need to understand

22:05

what your brand stands for. And

22:05

then I would think about, well,

22:08

if my brand stands for these

22:08

things, this is what I am going

22:12

to be promising my customer, I

22:12

promise I will this in what way

22:17

in this way, then what are all

22:17

the touch points you can have

22:20

with your customer, and is your

22:20

brand promising that in a

22:24

repeatable way. And then most

22:24

importantly, most importantly,

22:28

most importantly, don't promise

22:28

something you cannot deliver on

22:31

deliver on the promise don't

22:31

don't promise your future state,

22:35

you could promise the dream of

22:35

your future state. And then you

22:39

can stairstep your customers to

22:39

that promise. Just don't promise

22:43

which can't deliver. So if you

22:43

if you set your promise up, if

22:46

you understand how you versus

22:46

anyone else can deliver on that

22:48

promise, if you understand and

22:48

know why your customer thinks

22:52

that promise is valuable to

22:52

them. And your employees are

22:54

happy about delivering that

22:54

promise to your customer know

22:57

why you're delivering it. You

22:57

can do that on any budget. You

23:00

don't need time to do that.

23:00

That's just about you being

23:02

certain and understanding what

23:02

you have at your at your

23:05

disposal. And then I would say

23:05

past that if you're looking to

23:07

stretch your resources, then

23:07

it's like, okay, who do you have

23:11

that in common with? What are

23:11

some partnerships, you may be

23:13

able to create, tap into all

23:13

your friends and your friends,

23:16

fans and all that kind of stuff,

23:16

because you'll be starting to be

23:18

scrappy. So you did that with

23:18

Tazo tea. It was a very small

23:22

tea company out of Portland,

23:22

which was amazing. And you tap

23:25

into tea lovers, we were in a

23:25

coffee company, but people like

23:28

tea that's happened to people

23:28

that love you, and why are you

23:31

different and talk to them.

23:31

Don't talk to people that aren't

23:34

who you're trying to solve or

23:34

figure out the partnerships that

23:36

want to know, you know, if

23:36

you're scrappy, figure out other

23:38

people that maybe need you as

23:38

part of their service. Like

23:42

there's, there's so many things you could do to try and get scrappy and extend yourself.

23:44

That's what you have to be you

23:46

have to you have to know who you are. If you don't know what your brand is, don't differentiate on

23:48

your promise then that you kind

23:51

of do I

23:52

That's great

23:52

advice. I love that. So with

23:55

that said, Amy, what is the

23:55

zillo brand? How would you

23:59

describe that? was coming

24:02

Oh, well. My

24:02

elevator pitch Sure. Well, as I

24:07

mentioned, so the new mission is

24:07

unlocking my next chapter. And

24:11

because we know that getting

24:11

into a home, it's more than just

24:14

a physical dwelling. Right? It's

24:14

not just the houses like who you

24:17

are, it's your identity, those

24:17

kinds of things. And that our

24:19

homes while their identities and

24:19

you're moving from one to the

24:23

next. It's part of growth and

24:23

evolution. So Zillow, what we

24:27

want to be is we want to be the

24:27

most trusted place to imagine

24:30

play and dream about what's next

24:30

without judgment. Yeah, back to

24:33

what you were saying about the

24:33

dreaming part. So we're dreaming

24:36

and now we're helping customers

24:36

feel inspired and supporting

24:39

them right out the gate. We want

24:39

to help the customers move

24:42

forward to help them get unstuck

24:42

and help them feel confident

24:45

that they could do this because

24:45

they could do this they could do

24:47

that. Shouldn't be as hard as it

24:47

is.

24:50

That's great. I

24:50

love it. You know it's funny I

24:53

what you know you talk about

24:53

emotional so when people move I

24:56

moved I was married and then

24:56

when I my husband I got worse. I

25:00

moved in. I bought a new house,

25:00

you know. So all those things

25:02

you said, and it was stressful

25:02

and everything, but I tell you,

25:05

I describe it as my happy place.

25:05

Right. That's how I describe my

25:08

new home for many reasons, not

25:08

just because it's the four

25:11

walls, but it's everything it

25:11

stands for. And it's my new

25:14

home, and it's my happy place.

25:14

So it's totally an emotional

25:17

experience.

25:18

I'm glad that that happened. It's funny, because before we were really

25:19

getting into this whole training

25:22

thing, and you know, there are

25:22

people in the room we were

25:24

talking to, and they have

25:24

spouses that passed, they had

25:26

divorces, they foster children

25:26

and like sad things, because

25:29

that things happened in your

25:29

house, too, right? Yeah. And so

25:31

we definitely don't want to come

25:31

in with this Pollyanna. Dream

25:34

big, right? Because that's tone

25:34

deaf, it could be tone deaf. But

25:38

the thing we heard over and over

25:38

and over again, no matter what

25:41

the happiness was, the tragedy

25:41

was the different toys or

25:44

whatever happened was, his swing

25:44

just said, right? The house is

25:47

the place that's going to anchor

25:47

you the hope of the house is the

25:50

thing that keeps you centered,

25:50

that your identity is the thing

25:52

that you can look forward to

25:52

coming home to or their dream of

25:55

where you want to be, regardless

25:55

of the instance the future still

25:59

looks bright, understanding what

25:59

the promise of home could be.

26:02

Yeah, oh, I'm

26:03

sure everybody has stories of people. I mean, I think enough to my mom, when my

26:05

father died, there's another one

26:07

he died, she had to sell her

26:07

house of 36 years 30 Whatever

26:11

years and move right. It was so

26:11

emotional. But then her new

26:14

place is her happy place. You

26:14

know, like now, but you have you

26:17

know, you have to go through

26:17

that journey. So yeah, it's

26:19

quite a journey. And I love what

26:19

you guys are doing. I love your

26:22

brand and what you stand for,

26:22

and kudos to you for being big

26:25

part of that and helping them

26:25

achieve that. So if people want

26:28

to learn more about you, and

26:28

about Zillow are you You say

26:32

you're on are you on social media as well? I mean, what would be the best way for

26:34

people?

26:35

It's funny. I

26:35

feel cliche after we just get me

26:38

on social.

26:40

You I had a, I

26:40

had a guest that when I asked

26:44

him about that, you know what

26:44

his question was? Just tell him

26:46

to Google me.

26:49

So funny. Yeah.

26:49

LinkedIn. LinkedIn is probably

26:52

the best place to reach out to

26:52

me. And just Amy Johnson. Ai ma

26:57

me. Yeah. Okay, great. Well,

26:57

thank you. So golden golden.

27:02

It's Amy Johnson and an

27:02

apprentice golden because that

27:05

was my maiden name. I just

27:05

switched it coming out here to

27:07

Seattle.

27:08

So okay, so Amy

27:08

Johnson golden golden. Yep.

27:11

Okay, cool. Well, thank you so

27:11

much. I really think time is

27:16

like how fast it goes by. Oh,

27:16

nice to meet you virtually. And

27:20

thank you again. And we'll have

27:20

to stay connected now on

27:22

LinkedIn.

27:23

For sure. For sure.

27:25

Okay. Sounds

27:25

great. We'll talk to you soon. Okay.

27:28

Okay,

27:29

Bye. And there

27:29

you have it. I hope you enjoyed

27:32

the conversation and maybe

27:32

learned a few things to help you

27:36

with your branding. And most of

27:36

all, I hope you had some fun.

27:40

This show is a work in progress.

27:40

So please remember to rate and

27:44

review on whatever platform you

27:44

listen to podcasts. And if you

27:49

want to learn more about me and

27:49

what I do to help my clients

27:53

with their branding, feel free

27:53

to reach out to me on any of the

27:57

social channels under you

27:57

guessed it, branding, bad.

28:01

Branding matters was produced,

28:01

edited and hosted by Joelly.

28:05

Goodson also. So thanks again

28:05

and until next time, here's to

28:09

all you badass is out there.