0:10

Hi I'm Joelly,

0:10

your Branding Badass, and

0:13

welcome to Season Two of

0:13

Branding Matters. My guest today

0:17

is Jason Stang, one of

0:17

Calgary's, if not Canada's most

0:22

talented and celebrated

0:22

photographers. Frequently

0:25

roaming between Calgary and New

0:25

York City, Jason has done

0:28

award-winning work for MTV, Sony

0:28

Music Entertainment, The New

0:33

York Times Magazine and Tommy

0:33

Boy just to name a few. I

0:37

invited Jason to be a guest on

0:37

my show to talk about the role

0:41

photography plays in branding. I

0:41

wanted to learn how he always

0:45

managed to deliver what the

0:45

client wants in a unique and

0:49

visually stunning way. And I was

0:49

really curious to get his point

0:53

of view on what role photos play

0:53

in the development of a brand

0:57

story. Jason, thank you so much

0:57

for being here with me today.

1:02

Welcome to Branding Matters.

1:03

Thank you very much. It's great to be here. I've not talked to you in a long

1:05

time and looking forward to

1:07

catching up.

1:08

I know I'm

1:08

really happy to have you here

1:11

today. I just want to give our

1:11

audience a little bit of a

1:13

background because it is kind of

1:13

cool. So you and I know each

1:15

other for I was trying to think

1:15

probably 30 years ago when I was

1:19

working in the advertising

1:19

world, the first company well

1:22

actually not the first happened. I think where you and I work together is probably when I was

1:24

either at Caro at Ogilvy and

1:26

Mather, one of those two and you

1:26

were the twin MRI at first. I

1:30

was at Carl first and you were

1:30

the man around town when anyone

1:34

needed a top photographer Jason

1:34

Stang, that was the name that

1:37

everybody knew. That's how I got

1:37

to know you. And then when I

1:40

went over to Ogilvy, we did some

1:40

pretty big campaigns over there.

1:43

And we worked with you there.

1:43

And here we are, and then we

1:45

lost touch like millions of

1:45

people. And then 30 something

1:49

years later, you get a message

1:49

from me pop up in your account.

1:53

And the reason I reached out to

1:53

you not just because I want to

1:55

talk about specifically about

1:55

photography, but there's a

1:57

really important campaign going

1:57

on right now in Calgary, if not

2:00

Alberta called own and it's all

2:00

about own cancer, and I was

2:03

really interested in them. Then

2:03

I found out when I found out you

2:06

were the photographer on it, and

2:06

I love the photography, I just

2:08

had to reach out to you. So

2:08

thank you for agreeing to be on

2:12

my podcast. I know you were a

2:12

little bit nervous is the right

2:15

word. But I don't know, do you

2:15

do a lot of podcasts? Oh, no,

2:18

no, no. Well, then. And then I'm

2:18

even more I'm really honestly,

2:22

Jason, I'm really touched and

2:22

flattered and honored that you

2:24

said yes. So let's get right

2:24

into it. I want to know, when

2:28

was the moment that you knew

2:28

that you could not do anything

2:32

else in your life other than

2:32

photography,

2:35

That was dictated

2:35

by a lack of ability in math. I

2:39

always really wanted to be in

2:39

marketing and advertising. And

2:42

that whole industry was

2:42

something that spoke to me back

2:45

in the day, you did not really

2:45

have much of a way of finding

2:48

out much about that industry.

2:48

You basically said okay, I'm

2:50

gonna go to university and

2:50

hopefully I can end up in

2:52

marketing, get a degree a

2:52

commerce degree in marketing.

2:55

That's how I'm gonna get in advertise. So I was in marketing, I was taking commerce

2:57

at the University of Calgary and

3:00

I was doing reasonably well in

3:00

the classes that I cared about.

3:04

And really classes like the

3:04

wieder classes like calculus and

3:08

stuff like that I was bombing

3:08

spectacularly. And at the same

3:11

time parallel to this, I had a

3:11

darkroom at home. And I was very

3:14

much into photography. And I was

3:14

working at a camera store to pay

3:17

my bills. And I just had a sort

3:17

of an epiphany weekend where I

3:20

said, Screw it, I'm not getting

3:20

into marketing by be calm,

3:23

because I just won't be able to

3:23

do it. I can't stand it. So I

3:26

went and enrolled in art school

3:26

decided I was going to become a

3:28

photographer not really

3:28

understanding that that is

3:31

actually probably what I wanted

3:31

to be all along. She was working

3:33

on the creative side of ad work,

3:33

and it sort of was the natural

3:37

spot to be so it was never

3:37

really a decision as much as it

3:40

was a stumble.

3:40

Well, it's funny that you say that though. But then you said you had a

3:42

darkroom at home. And I don't think everybody has a darkroom

3:44

at home. So clearly, you must

3:46

have been a passionate

3:47

About arts. And that's

3:47

even in my brain. I was like,

3:50

Okay, how can I commercially

3:50

apply my artistic abilities and

3:53

use my creative skills to find a

3:53

career and this is pre internet.

3:57

So a lot of that was just

3:57

guesswork. You really didn't

3:59

know where the jobs were how you

3:59

got to them. The darkroom was a

4:02

passion and thank God for my art

4:02

marks because I think that's

4:05

what kept me from getting kicked

4:05

out of university. So it was

4:08

sort of preordained.

4:09

So photography,

4:09

though, was always in your

4:11

wheelhouse as far as when you

4:11

were a kid. I mean, I read, I

4:14

read in your bio, where you

4:14

joked about in the womb. So I

4:17

was gonna ask you about

4:18

this think of all

4:18

sort of naturally gravitated

4:20

towards my mom's comes from a

4:20

family of artists. There's

4:23

always been art, my family, you

4:23

know, I was also attracted, I

4:26

think, to just the electronics

4:26

and the interest of an SLR

4:29

camera and the buttons and all

4:29

that sort of stuff. When I was

4:31

like, five, I was always the one

4:31

who wanted to take the camera

4:34

and take the photos on road

4:34

trips and stuff with my family.

4:36

I mean, I didn't know what I was

4:36

doing. But I would point and

4:39

shoot and click the button and

4:39

think I was pretty good. So I

4:42

find that's pretty good. Yeah, I

4:42

grew in high school in high

4:45

school, you're taking our

4:45

classes and photography was one

4:47

of the ones that really you know, that component of the art classes was probably my

4:49

favorite. So it just sort of

4:51

grew from there and started

4:51

building a darkroom and I

4:53

learned more and I read books

4:53

and sort of ended up there.

4:57

Wow, that's

4:57

amazing. So I read a quote, I

4:59

read a quote But somewhere where

4:59

you said photography, for me is

5:02

more about creating the

5:02

opportunity for the decisive

5:05

moment to occur. I think that's

5:05

a really interesting quote. Can

5:08

you elaborate on that?

5:09

Well, it's sort of

5:09

a play on the whole decisive

5:11

moment. You know, Robert Osnos

5:11

sort of ethos of photography,

5:14

where they always talk about the

5:14

decisive moment, and just being

5:17

really ready to capture that

5:17

fraction of a second when

5:20

everything just falls into

5:20

place. And that isn't really

5:23

what I do, I build I create,

5:23

sometimes it's building the set,

5:26

sometimes it's finding the

5:26

location, all those things, are

5:29

there a bigger part than the

5:29

actual pushing the shutter? The

5:31

shutter is sort of a culmination

5:31

to me, it's not really the it's

5:35

just part of the process, right?

5:35

And when you're an artist, and

5:37

you're creating a piece of work,

5:37

the creativity happens in your

5:41

mind and in your heart in your

5:41

head, right. And then the

5:43

paintbrush just is a way for you

5:43

to execute that. Is that kind of

5:46

the same things? Exactly. It's yeah, it's the

5:47

pencil, right or part of the

5:50

pencil, whereas the guys that

5:50

talk like the decisive moment,

5:53

they're much more about

5:53

capturing, being at the event,

5:56

capturing that and finding the

5:56

moment at the event, I tend to

5:59

build the event and then make

5:59

that moment happen. It probably

6:02

a little bit of the difference

6:02

between art photography and ad

6:04

photography.

6:05

Right? Okay,

6:05

interesting. And so would you

6:07

say you're an ad photographer? I

6:07

mean, you specialize in brands,

6:10

right? That's where your

6:10

specialty is not personal. I

6:13

mean, you don't do you personal branding. Mostly just, I don't think

6:15

there's a photographer alive who

6:18

doesn't do a bit of everything.

6:18

If you're truly a photographer

6:21

that becomes your soul, like, I

6:21

don't go anywhere without a bag

6:24

of cameras. And you know, I

6:24

might not use them, I might need

6:26

a break. But generally, you're

6:26

always seeing photos, right?

6:29

So I gotta tell you a funny

6:29

story back. This is gonna show

6:31

my age now. But quite a few

6:31

years ago, when I had a

6:34

Blackberry, and my sister got

6:34

one of the new blackberries, and

6:38

it had a camera on it. And she

6:38

was like, totally, I got this

6:40

new BlackBerry. You got to see it's got a camera. And I remember at the time and I

6:42

camera, I can't tell what year was, but I was like, Who the

6:44

hell needs a camera on a phone?

6:47

I mean, I have a camera and I

6:47

have my phone. Why would I ever

6:50

want one? And now? I can't even

6:50

imagine not having their camera

6:53

on their phone. So what's your

6:53

take on taking pictures with

6:56

your phone? And do you use your

6:56

phone to take a lot of pictures?

6:59

I do a lot. I don't

6:59

take pretty pictures with my

7:03

phone. Not often anyway, I think

7:03

mostly because I'm just a bit of

7:06

a snob. Still, though. The

7:06

reality is camera phones are

7:09

quite good. Yeah, a lot of

7:09

things they can do very well.

7:12

Most people never look at an

7:12

image anymore other than

7:15

electronically, and you don't

7:15

need the same sort of

7:18

resolution. So the camera phones

7:18

are fantastic. Especially the

7:21

latest ones every time I see

7:21

one. I'm like, Yeah, that's a

7:23

few more jobs that won't be getting.

7:26

That was gonna be my next question is do you think with the introduction of

7:28

the camera phones, specially you

7:31

know, the iPhone? And now I

7:31

think it's the iPhone, what 13?

7:33

Has that affected you as a

7:33

professional photographer?

7:36

It has an I mean,

7:36

cuz everybody thinks they're a

7:39

professional photographer now.

7:39

Right? Well, that part, I don't

7:42

think it hurts me too much.

7:42

Because it gets back to what I

7:44

say as I build my photos. For

7:44

the most part, I'm building

7:47

lights and building sets, I'm

7:47

doing all this sort of stuff,

7:50

that part is still really tough

7:50

to the camera doesn't really

7:53

matter so much. And any good

7:53

camera will do. But what happens

7:56

is, is the stuff that I used to

7:56

get phone calls for like, Hey,

7:59

can you come shoot this giant

7:59

cheque being presented to

8:02

somebody or whatever, I don't

8:02

get those calls anymore. And I'm

8:04

fine with that. Yeah. Typically,

8:04

when you're doing those, you're

8:08

doing it because it's a client

8:08

that you've worked for. And

8:11

you're like, Okay, I'll do this

8:11

for you. Because either you

8:13

don't want to open the door for

8:13

another photographer, or you're

8:16

just doing it as a favor no

8:16

matter what. I don't miss those.

8:19

There's no real joy for me in

8:19

taking those. So I'm glad to let

8:22

that stuff go.

8:22

Interesting. Okay, so let's talk about branding. Because we are the

8:24

show is called Branding Matters.

8:27

And that's why I brought you on

8:27

here. So what role do you think

8:30

photos play when it helps some

8:30

brands to tell their story?

8:33

I think it's everything. Photos are far more effective than words. I hate to

8:35

say that to somebody who is a

8:37

writer. But people assume words

8:37

can lie. People don't

8:42

necessarily assume photos can

8:42

lie. So when you're showing a

8:44

photo of whatever it is, you

8:44

have, they tend to look at it

8:47

and go oh, yeah, I see that

8:47

photo speak true, completely

8:50

bullshit response because they

8:50

don't speak truth. But people

8:53

perceive they speak truth when

8:54

You say they

8:54

don't speak truth are you

8:56

referring to because of all the

8:56

Photoshop and all the filters

9:00

and everything else?

9:00

Well, that's part

9:00

of it. Even back before all that

9:02

photos were never truth. I mean,

9:02

you made decisions. He didn't

9:06

make as many decisions back

9:06

then, you know, but we still had

9:08

to pick the film we use the time

9:08

of day we shot, how long the

9:11

exposures were all those things

9:11

contributed to making things

9:14

look better than they were or

9:14

even the lens selection or what

9:16

we frame, you know, you can

9:16

exclude a lot of things and just

9:20

focus on the good things. And if

9:20

you're working for a mining

9:23

company, or if you just point

9:23

the camera at the right

9:25

direction, or you put the right

9:25

stuff in the foreground, you can

9:28

say a lot of things without

9:28

really saying you don't have to

9:31

actually say that you're just

9:31

lying by omission sometimes, you

9:34

know, you can leave stuff out,

9:34

you could selectively show

9:37

things and it's a way of

9:37

controlling the narrative. The

9:39

goal of all branding is

9:39

controlling the narrative.

9:42

Yeah, that's so true. And I

9:42

mean, it's cliche to say,

9:44

picture says 1000 words but I

9:44

mean, it's true and never more

9:47

so probably then it is with

9:47

social media, right? Because

9:50

people's attention span right

9:50

now or like milliseconds.

9:53

Yeah, that's exactly it our

9:53

attention span to read the

9:56

words. I guarantee you for every

9:56

photo that's looked at it

9:58

Instagram or there's 1000 photos

9:58

looked at for everyone that

10:01

somebody reads the caption on.

10:01

Yeah, visuals are very much part

10:05

of our lexicon. Now,

10:06

Speaking of

10:06

social media, how has your

10:08

business change with social media

10:10

Purely on a work level, the amount of work I produce is substantially higher,

10:12

because of social and the

10:15

demands for more imagery. And

10:15

the demands for more photographs

10:19

just go up exponentially. And

10:19

there's a shift. If I had to

10:22

photograph a vodka bottle for a

10:22

vodka company, 20 years ago,

10:26

that was a day, you took a day,

10:26

you lit the vodka bottle, you

10:29

made it perfect, you did

10:29

everything, you would probably

10:32

select half a dozen different

10:32

vodka bottles to get the perfect

10:34

label. And all these sort of

10:34

things, it was a full process

10:37

with social, that doesn't happen

10:37

anymore, the demand for imagery

10:41

is so high, and the currency

10:41

value of those images is dropped

10:45

substantially, you need to

10:45

produce more, because they need

10:48

more, and they can't really pay

10:48

more, they're not going to pay

10:51

to spend a day shooting a vodka

10:51

bottle anymore. You can shoot 50

10:54

in a day, or 20 or 10. But

10:54

there's that balance now of what

10:57

they get for what they pay for.

10:57

There's a lot more library where

11:00

people just need assets.

11:02

Interesting. So

11:02

what about stock photography,

11:05

It has a place and I'd

11:05

be lying if I didn't say I made

11:08

a fair bit of money off stock

11:08

photography, it's sort of a race

11:10

to the bottom now in that

11:10

industry. Because there's so

11:13

many there's so much being

11:13

produced. When I started doing

11:15

that as a side hustle, I guess

11:15

to photography, the barriers to

11:18

entry were fairly high, a good

11:18

camera was 10, grand 15 grand

11:22

now you could shoot stock

11:22

photography with your iPhone,

11:24

there's companies that

11:24

specialize in iPhone stock

11:26

photography, so it has a place a

11:26

lot of companies now there's so

11:30

many small companies, there's so

11:30

many companies that need

11:33

imagery, and so much demand for

11:33

it that they can't pay for

11:36

photoshoots. So I mean stock is

11:36

a great option for areas where

11:40

you can't afford to do

11:40

otherwise, you just have to be

11:43

very selective on when you use

11:43

it. Because it's sort of just

11:46

filler for the most part, you

11:46

can find stuff that sort of

11:48

mimics your brand or mimics your

11:48

image. But generally no, it's a

11:52

little bit of a substitute.

11:53

So is budget the reason usually people go with stock is because it's a lot

11:55

less expensive?

11:57

Substantially less

11:57

expensive speed, you can have it

12:00

that day, you can have it right away, you don't have to organize, you don't have to do a

12:02

lot of things like that the cost

12:05

per image is down to dollars,

12:05

not hundreds or pennies, even

12:08

sometimes, you know, you should

12:08

be using that when you need an

12:10

image to fulfill a certain

12:10

objective, and you can't afford

12:13

to get a produce. And it's not

12:13

going to matter. It's not going

12:16

to be something that's brand

12:16

defining or anything like that.

12:20

It's just Oh look, you can pay

12:20

online, here's a photo of

12:23

somebody paying online or

12:23

whatever it is you can do a lot

12:27

of stock right now is people

12:27

buying mask photos to show mask

12:29

mandates and stuff like that.

12:29

You don't want to go shoot that

12:32

not if you're a small company,

12:32

that's just too much effort,

12:34

it's too much money, and it's

12:34

not worth it. Now, conversely

12:38

put something that fundamental

12:38

to your brand, you should

12:40

definitely look at investing in

12:40

actual photography for those

12:43

things. And why would you? Well,

12:43

because you're trying to define

12:46

your brand. And most stock today

12:46

is royalty free, meaning it

12:50

could appear anywhere. The image

12:50

you picked up boosts your brand

12:52

could also be the image to push

12:52

whatever I point to one photo I

12:56

took years ago and is a friend

12:56

of mine. And it was an actual

12:59

stock photo shoot that I had

12:59

done for an agency years ago.

13:02

And that photo, I think it's

13:02

been downloaded 15 20,000 times.

13:07

It's made me a fair bit of money.

13:08

So you make money every time it gets download?

13:10

Yeah

13:10

Oh, that's great.

13:11

Depending on the site you're on and stuff that image took off. And if you saw

13:13

it, you'd probably recognize it.

13:16

At one point, it was one of the

13:16

top selling images on a stock.

13:19

And we kept a running tally of

13:19

where it appeared. And it would

13:22

appear on ads for dentists but

13:22

the best one was charcoal

13:25

underwear for women who are

13:25

flatulent when they fly. And it

13:29

was a filtering. And I mean that

13:29

oh my god. So imagine using that

13:34

as your branding photo. And it's

13:34

the same photo appearing for

13:38

charcoal underwear.

13:39

Well, you know, it's interesting, you said, because that's exactly what I

13:41

was thinking I've seen that I've

13:43

gone on to websites, believe it

13:43

or not, this is what really blew

13:46

me away is I was on a website

13:46

where I saw a stock photo for

13:50

this brand. And I saw that photo

13:50

somewhere else. And I remember

13:54

thinking like, where else did I see before and I went back and I found it. In my opinion, I think

13:56

it really dilutes the brand.

13:58

When you see the same image

13:58

throughout, like you just said,

14:02

then that sort of, in my

14:02

opinion, not only dilutes the

14:04

brand, but it loses that sort of

14:04

uniqueness,

14:07

Right. And that's

14:07

sort of what I get back to is I

14:09

mean, if it's a brand defining

14:09

image, you're the last thing you

14:13

want to use is stock. There's a

14:13

lot of reasons to use stock. But

14:16

if it's a brand of finding, like

14:16

I said that image has been

14:18

downloaded 16,000 times, imagine

14:18

where that it's been. There's

14:22

cases I remember somebody sent

14:22

me a photo of two different ads

14:25

using the same stock photo face

14:25

to face in a newspaper.

14:28

I mean,

14:28

terrible I know for sure. I

14:31

mean, why do you make money off?

14:31

I'm a little bit of a for that.

14:38

Wow, that's crazy. So talking

14:38

about that. I'm curious you know

14:43

a lot of big part about branding

14:43

is but connecting your brand

14:46

with the audience, right is how

14:46

do you make that connection? And

14:49

especially now we talked about

14:49

social media as being able to

14:51

connect so what role do photos

14:51

play and how do you as a

14:55

photographer, help the brand

14:55

connect through the pictures

14:57

with their audience?

14:59

Well, the big thing

14:59

is, so many businesses today are

15:03

an extension of their owners.

15:03

You know, there's a lot of small

15:06

123 person shops that are people

15:06

trying to break out and

15:09

establish something. And because

15:09

you're an extension, the owners,

15:13

they should be able to bring

15:13

their personality into it.

15:15

Whenever somebody asked me to

15:15

shoot or play a part of that or

15:17

consult or whatever it is,

15:17

that's the first thing I look to

15:20

is I look to okay, what is the

15:20

aesthetic of the brand. And it

15:24

doesn't have to be first and

15:24

foremost, every time but it has

15:26

to be recognized. And you have

15:26

to understand can't go too far

15:29

out of your lane. Because sort

15:29

of how people identify if you

15:31

stray too far, you're not

15:31

telling people who you are. And

15:34

so you have to sort of stay in

15:34

your lane and make sure your

15:37

imagery sort of reflects who you

15:37

are, whether it's what type of

15:40

lighting you use, what type of

15:40

models, whether it's bright and

15:43

airy, I mean, if you're a

15:43

lifestyle clothing brand, you

15:46

want to make sure you're true to

15:46

who your wares are. If they're

15:48

skateboarders, you want to be

15:48

cognizant of that culture, when

15:51

you're shooting it, all those

15:51

things, you want to see them

15:53

reflected in your photos.

15:54

It's an art form, right? I mean, art is about tapping into you on an

15:56

emotional level. When you look

15:59

at art, you take your mom's an

15:59

artist, I come from a family of

16:01

artists to an art, I mean, it's

16:01

very subjective, but it's also

16:04

very emotional. I don't know if

16:04

I ever told you this. My dad was

16:06

photography was his hobby and

16:06

his passion. I mean, I think if

16:09

he were to redo his whole

16:09

career, he'd probably be a

16:11

photographer. I was one of those

16:11

kids that grew up where

16:14

everything he did, he wanted to

16:14

take pictures, and it was so

16:17

annoying. But then we have

16:17

pictures now of us all grown up,

16:19

which is amazing. But anyway,

16:19

but it was up but it was a very

16:21

emotional, like you look at his

16:21

pictures and you look at your

16:25

pictures, I think Oh, mom is

16:25

actually really good example

16:28

that we're really taps into your

16:28

emotion. I mean, that's a big

16:30

part of branding is trying to

16:30

connect on an emotional level.

16:32

And I think with photography,

16:32

trying to do that, I suspect is

16:36

a real skill. It's not just

16:36

snapping. Like you said, it's

16:39

getting deeper than that. So

16:39

let's use the OWN campaign

16:42

because I think that's very

16:42

relevant. And it's a very

16:44

topical and it's beautiful. So

16:44

cut. Let's talk about those

16:47

pictures that you did. How are

16:47

you able to? I mean, it's an

16:50

emotional subject to begin with.

16:50

But I'm curious to know how you

16:53

were able to connect with the

16:53

audience, help the brand help

16:56

the OWN campaign really connect

16:56

with their audience with your

16:59

pictures?

17:00

OWN was an interesting

17:00

one, because it's one of those

17:02

ones you're like, Yeah, I want

17:02

to be part of this. It's not one

17:04

of those jobs where you're like,

17:04

what's the final pay? There was

17:06

no pay.

17:07

We shoul probably explain. Can you give a little briefing of what exactly

17:08

the OWN campaign is?

17:11

OWN was put up by

17:11

Daughter Creative, one of the

17:14

smaller shops in Calgary that

17:14

does some fantastic work.

17:17

They've got some really talented

17:17

people there. They were tasked

17:19

with branding the new cancer

17:19

center in Calgary, they didn't

17:22

want to show a building, they wanted to show people, they wanted to show stories, and they

17:24

wanted to make it so we could

17:27

all relate to it. And it was a

17:27

really interesting set in that

17:30

we were shooting the video the same time we're shooting the stills, and you had a lot of

17:32

cancer survivors there, you had

17:35

a lot of people and you really

17:35

felt the necessity that sort of

17:38

do the story, right? You didn't

17:38

want a lot of hyperbole, you

17:41

wanted to show how strong these

17:41

people were. But they also

17:44

didn't want to show these people

17:44

quote unquote, beating cancer,

17:47

they wanted to show all of us

17:47

beating cancer. And it's a

17:50

little bit of a different thing.

17:50

Because when you think of people

17:52

beating cancer, you think of

17:52

people Oh, it's like some people

17:56

don't be cancer, it means they

17:56

lost. And that's not really the

17:59

premise, the premise is as a

17:59

collective, we're going to be

18:02

cancer and own was about getting

18:02

to some fundraising for the

18:06

cancer center, because it is a

18:06

crazy world class facility. And

18:09

we are really lucky to have it

18:09

in our city limits, and we need

18:13

to support it, it is an

18:13

important part globally of the

18:16

fight against cancer. And we

18:16

should be proud of it. And it's

18:19

one of those things where you

18:19

gotta just I don't know how to

18:22

say...

18:22

It's a very

18:22

emotional topic. You know, I've

18:25

been affected by cancer, and my

18:25

dad died of cancer. So I'm very

18:28

much affected by it. And I know

18:28

people that have died and are

18:31

struggling with it. When you

18:31

talk about branding, it's really

18:34

important to connect with your

18:34

audience on an emotional level.

18:37

And I think through photography,

18:37

it's really important and

18:40

challenging thing to do is to be

18:40

able to connect in that way. And

18:43

I think that campaign, you did a

18:43

really good job of doing that.

18:46

And so I was just curious to get

18:46

your point on how you were able

18:49

to do that.

18:50

What we were trying to do with that campaign is we were trying to show strength, we

18:52

weren't trying to show anybody

18:55

is particularly vulnerable, or

18:55

even particularly strong. We

18:58

just wanted to show the people

18:58

that are in the war and their

19:00

stories and uplifting stories.

19:00

You know, Jim button has a

19:03

fantastic story that is a guy

19:03

who's embraced everything and he

19:07

lives life to the fullest. You

19:07

just want to capture the spirit

19:10

of those people and what they've

19:10

gone through what you don't want

19:12

to necessarily portray them as

19:12

something above and beyond

19:16

normal. It's something that

19:16

we're all part of. It's

19:18

affecting everybody. You just

19:18

want to give them their moment.

19:21

So it wasn't

19:21

about pittying people. It wasn't

19:24

trying to pity people. It's

19:24

about trying to tell their

19:27

story.

19:27

And conversely the other way. It was not about elevating them, either. They've

19:29

gone through the battle, or

19:31

they're going through the battle

19:31

or they know somebody who's been

19:34

through the battle. I think it's

19:34

more about showing it. They're

19:36

all of us and they're part of

19:36

us. And yeah, it's left some

19:39

scars and it's left some hope

19:39

and it's less than sadness and

19:42

it's left awake. And you know,

19:42

it's about showing that without

19:45

glamorizing it, so you just

19:45

wanted these people to just be

19:48

that. Yeah, and it was very

19:48

isolated and very strong,

19:52

somewhat heroic, but not it was

19:52

a real balancing act. We didn't

19:55

want to make them look like

19:55

they're some sort of badass

19:57

superheroes or fighters, right?

19:57

Because there's They're people

20:00

and we're all people. And they

20:00

just wanted to make it seem full

20:03

spectrum that it covered

20:03

everybody, it affects everybody,

20:06

everybody gets it, everybody

20:06

fights it, the only way we beat

20:08

it is as a group as a collective.

20:11

Well, I think the pictures portray that they're very simple. And

20:13

everything you just said, was

20:16

completely personified in the

20:16

photography, just FYI.

20:19

So that's what we

20:19

wanted. Those were a little bit

20:21

of a, you know, one of those images where you're like, I really want this to be a certain

20:23

way. And I really want this to

20:26

have that feel to it. And on the

20:26

day, everybody was fantastic.

20:29

All the people appearing it,

20:29

whether it was researchers,

20:31

whether it was people in the

20:31

battle, people who've gone

20:34

through the battle, everybody,

20:34

they're all just there's just a

20:37

positivity in it and a

20:37

healthiness about the whole

20:39

thing that was really quite

20:39

organic and felt really nice.

20:43

Well, you should be very proud. Okay, I'm going to switch topics here. And

20:44

I want to talk about COVID.

20:47

Because I'd be remiss not to how

20:47

would you say, yeah, right,

20:52

Jason, I mean, how has COVID

20:52

affected your business

20:55

specifically? I mean, especially

20:55

when you would do all your

20:58

photoshoots. Obviously, you'd

20:58

have to go on location, I guess,

21:02

is what you call it. So how was COVID affected your business?

21:03

I want to use the word

21:03

pivot here so badly, because

21:06

everybody talked about

21:09

I've never heard that before.

21:11

I did not really have

21:11

to pivot. It was weird. Like, I

21:15

literally thought the sky was

21:15

falling, you and everybody else

21:17

ever whenever they was starting

21:17

to shut down, and I was, I know

21:20

scrubbing my groceries, I wasn't

21:20

sure. I didn't know what it

21:23

would be. And then within a

21:23

week, the phone was ringing. And

21:26

I had a bunch of companies just

21:26

trying to shoot their covert

21:29

response photos, like how we're

21:29

standing with business and how

21:32

we're doing this or doing that.

21:32

So I was somewhat busy out of

21:35

the gate, probably for the first

21:35

couple of months, which shocked

21:38

me, and I had no expectation of

21:38

that. I thought it was just like

21:42

I said the sky was falling, and

21:42

I would just be on a really long

21:44

holiday.

21:45

So even in lockdown?

21:46

Well, yeah,

21:47

we won't say who the brand is.

21:49

Well, it's funny,

21:49

because, I mean, okay, there's

21:52

two stories there. There's one,

21:52

I got a call from an agency in

21:54

Toronto, you know, after about

21:54

1000 NDAs, they sent out a brief

21:57

on what I was shooting. And I

21:57

also got a similar call from a

22:00

client here. And their

22:00

competitors, I should say that

22:03

competitor of the company into

22:03

each other it was an agency in

22:06

Toronto was a company in Calgary

22:06

who happened to compete with

22:08

each other, they both sent me

22:08

briefs that were virtually

22:11

identical to the point where I

22:11

was getting the jobs confused.

22:13

But everybody wanted to just

22:13

show that they were supportive,

22:16

especially if you're a company

22:16

that deals with small business

22:18

and stuff, they want to say, you

22:18

know, we got your back. So I had

22:20

a lot of work for the first few

22:20

months for different companies

22:24

shooting that sort of stuff.

22:24

That was sort of how it started.

22:27

As it progressed, summer is

22:27

usually sort of a busy time for

22:31

me in terms of corporate work,

22:31

where I'm doing a lot of asset

22:34

photography, and I'm out in the

22:34

field for various companies,

22:37

that stuff plummeted, because

22:37

nobody was going out in the

22:40

field, there's no shooting. So

22:40

that summer was really a lot of

22:42

cabin time, which was fantastic,

22:42

you know, and then it sort of

22:45

just petered back and forth. You

22:45

get these crazy requests, like,

22:49

Okay, we want to shoot

22:49

portraits, but we need you to

22:51

shoot them from your cars you

22:51

drive by and oh, no, there was a

22:56

quote for a job like that. It's

22:56

like, okay, the photographer

22:59

will stay in the vehicle and

22:59

shoot out the window. And I'm

23:01

like, No, I won't.

23:04

Oh, my God. So

23:04

you turn those down?

23:06

Well, you just

23:06

know, I actually am doing the

23:08

job. But I'm not shooting

23:08

rolling down a window and

23:10

shooting a throne and park and

23:10

fire off a couple of shots. It's

23:14

not gonna happen. Yeah, you just

23:14

follow protocol. And the nice

23:18

thing is you just shoot with a

23:18

longer lens, and you can stand

23:21

back a little further. It's not

23:21

a occupation where I have to be

23:24

intake, I can literally shoot

23:24

somebody from a block away if I

23:27

choose to most of the issues

23:27

with COVID for me became

23:30

shooting stuff in studio, how

23:30

many people you could have in

23:33

the studio hair and makeup was a

23:33

huge things required hair

23:36

makeup, that was always a

23:36

stumbling block. So you're like,

23:39

Okay, well, we're not doing hair

23:39

and makeup on this job. Or we'll

23:42

get the talent to do their own

23:42

hair and stuff like that

23:45

projects where I probably only

23:45

did 30% of what I would have

23:49

done in a good year, but that's fine.

23:52

So do you think

23:52

it's changed the industry and

23:56

moving forward? I mean, what do

23:56

you see being done differently?

23:59

Or do you see things being done

23:59

differently now?

24:01

A little bit, I think there's a

24:01

little bit of more, the pop of

24:05

what usually goes around with

24:05

what I do is sort of faded.

24:07

Like, you know, if I was

24:07

shooting something in the

24:10

studio, there's always half a

24:10

dozen people just lingered

24:12

around, usually not even paying

24:12

attention usually on their

24:15

laptops, but just creating

24:15

billable hours, I guess I'm not

24:18

sure what they're doing most of

24:18

the time. That doesn't happen

24:21

anymore. It tends to be me and

24:21

our director and I like that

24:24

it's a little more direct and

24:24

it's a little less dog and pony

24:26

show, which I think is the end

24:26

of the day just doesn't really

24:29

change the end result just

24:29

changes the path to get there. I

24:33

don't mind this. I'm not a dog

24:33

and pony show kind of guy so I

24:36

don't mind missing that part of it. Are you an introvert or an

24:37

extrovert?

24:39

I'm a introverted extrovert.

24:40

Me too.

24:42

I love going out. I

24:42

love seeing people I love being

24:45

out. But I'm as happy as a clam

24:45

to be alone and in work and

24:49

create or do whatever it is I

24:49

want to do. I like a balance I

24:52

guess is the way to put it.

24:53

Yeah, it's

24:53

funny I describe myself that as

24:56

that people don't believe me.

24:56

I'm like, No, I you know, I can

24:58

go out and socialize. Do people

24:58

get to recharge, I need to be by

25:02

myself. I love my longtime I

25:02

don't get enough of it, and I

25:05

covet it.

25:05

And with kids, you

25:05

never get enough of it.

25:09

Right?! Yours

25:09

are older than mine. But

25:12

exactly, yeah, for sure. So let

25:12

me ask you a question when

25:15

you're out or whether you're

25:15

online or anywhere and you see

25:18

other ads or photos, do you look

25:18

at it with an eye like, Oh, I

25:22

love this photo, but I would

25:22

change this. And do you have

25:25

this inner critique?

25:26

All the time. And

25:26

you know, certain things, I

25:29

don't have expectations of

25:29

certain ads and certain photos,

25:31

I'm like, those just go right

25:31

over me. But if somebody puts an

25:34

effort into it, and I'll look at

25:34

it critically, of course, my

25:37

favorite is when it comes up to

25:37

jobs that you quoted on that

25:40

might not have gotten, and then

25:40

you see the execution, you're

25:42

like, yeah, it's yeah, a lot of

25:42

times, I think they've done a

25:45

great job. A lot of times, it's

25:45

like, yeah, you fumbled, I would

25:49

have done that different. But I

25:49

like to think I'm realistic when

25:51

I do that. I'm not the only

25:51

person in the world who knows

25:53

how to take picture. So I like

25:53

seeing how other people solve

25:57

the problem as well.

25:58

Right. But I mean, I have no doubt that you can't just look at a picture

26:00

being objective, just because

26:03

I don't know. Yeah,

26:03

it's tough to just purely enjoy

26:03

that's, a photo for a photo, say, Yeah,

26:06

but I probably that said, I

26:09

probably get more excited over

26:09

photos than most people, too. I

26:12

do it all the time as if I see

26:12

an ad or something where I'm

26:15

like, Oh, that's a great photo,

26:15

I will screenshot that. Just

26:17

because I like having it. I

26:17

don't know why I might go back

26:21

and revisit it six months from

26:21

now or when I'm cleaning out a

26:23

folder on my desktop or

26:23

something. But yeah, generally,

26:26

I see something like, oh, I

26:26

don't want to forget about that.

26:28

I will take a shot of it. So

26:28

that's great. And then I just

26:32

like it.

26:33

Do you have any

26:33

photographers that you look up

26:35

to?

26:35

Yeah, various ones,

26:35

for various reason, share a

26:38

couple. The one who I probably

26:38

have the most time for and the

26:44

most respect for is a man named

26:44

Dan Winters, which is

26:46

interesting because our lives

26:46

and sort of intersected a few

26:49

times over the last 30 years.

26:49

And I've gotten to know him

26:51

reasonably well. Now. He's just

26:51

found his path path I would like

26:55

to be on or try and emulate, I

26:55

guess is a way to put it where

26:57

it's a mix of work that is broad

26:57

enough based and he explores his

27:02

passions with his work, but he's

27:02

capable of making some just

27:05

stunning imagery. And he's just

27:05

one of those guys that is very

27:09

honest to himself. He doesn't

27:09

really go outside his lane too

27:12

much. I can tell one of his

27:12

photos within seconds looking at

27:15

it. Oh, really? Where does he

27:15

live? Austin, Texas.

27:18

Okay, so his

27:18

brand is very recognizable that

27:20

I was gonna ask, that was my

27:20

thing I was gonna ask you to so

27:23

do you think that you've created

27:23

a brand for yourself where

27:25

people can look and say, Oh,

27:25

that's a Jason Stang.

27:28

People tell me that

27:28

all the time. People go. Yeah,

27:30

like I could tell right away.

27:30

That was yours. I get that quite

27:33

often. And I'm like, Yeah, I

27:33

don't know. My thing is yeah,

27:36

when I do it the way I want to

27:36

do it. Yeah, I would say that.

27:39

Keep in mind, I am an

27:39

advertising photographer. So

27:41

it's a little bit of being a

27:41

chameleon. Not always satisfying

27:44

my visual, right? Often

27:44

satisfying the client's visual,

27:48

you might have your influences,

27:48

but a lot of times it's dictated

27:50

by what the brief says, right?

27:50

And what their vision is.

27:53

So what would

27:53

you say your brand is? Actually

27:55

I'm curious, what do you think

27:55

people say about Jason Stang

27:57

photography,

27:58

My personal brand think

27:58

might be a little bit of a

28:00

different narrative. And I think

28:00

that's actually more of a

28:02

constantly evolving thing. But

28:02

the the brand I like to carry

28:06

through in the industry is I

28:06

like people to think you know

28:08

what he solves my problem, you

28:08

know, more so than anything,

28:11

whatever visual style I use to

28:11

solve it, or visual execution, I

28:14

used to solve it, I want to just

28:14

be known as that guy that people

28:17

walk away and go, that was a

28:17

great experience. From a

28:19

branding standpoint, I like to

28:19

be on the tip of the tongue of

28:22

art directors and creative

28:22

people and I want to be the guy

28:24

they go, you know, he's the guy

28:24

that will understand what we

28:26

need, and he will deliver it and

28:26

he'll deliver it in a way that

28:30

makes us super happy. That's

28:30

really what it comes down to me.

28:32

I don't want them to go. The work was excellent. But he's NASA.

28:35

Right? I mean, there's no question that you're super talented, you're award

28:37

winning, you have done tons of

28:40

great campaigns. But that's the

28:40

other thing too is you're

28:42

actually a really down to earth,

28:42

easygoing person and great to

28:46

work with. And so that I think

28:46

that's your brand. And that

28:49

means a lot because people want

28:49

to work with someone

28:51

professional, who they can also

28:51

actually like, so you kind of

28:55

hit all that if I'm a business,

28:55

and I'm a small business owner,

28:58

and I'm looking for a

28:58

photographer to take some

29:01

pictures of a campaign I'm doing

29:01

what are some things I should

29:04

look for

29:05

Just my number? No.

29:09

That's sort of the easy answer.

29:11

Well, first of all, I think you really have to assess your needs. People go, oh, we

29:13

need photography. Well, what do

29:15

you need photography of, you

29:15

know, you have to really

29:18

understand what you need, and

29:18

what you hope to get by hiring a

29:22

photographer. And that I think

29:22

will dictate a lot of it.

29:24

Because if you're looking for

29:24

just lifestyle stuff, and stuff

29:27

that reinforces your brand, if

29:27

your brand is let's go back to a

29:30

skateboard company or surf

29:30

company or something like that,

29:33

but you feel that you need

29:33

images of kids with surfboards

29:36

in Volkswagen vans on the beach

29:36

at Tofino that's a different

29:39

photographer than hiring somebody who's going to shoot your stuff on a model in a

29:41

studio. Not necessarily

29:44

different photographer, but it's definitely a different execution. So if you're hiring

29:46

that guy for the beach, well

29:48

then you look for people that do

29:48

that you look through Instagram

29:51

or you find them wherever and

29:51

you go from there, that stuff

29:54

gets expensive to produce. And

29:54

maybe that's one of those places

29:57

where you look for stock or you

29:57

Find somebody on Instagram who

30:01

has that type of imagery in the

30:01

offer to buy it from, there's

30:03

ways to get that without

30:03

necessarily investing the money

30:06

and getting it. Conversely, if you're to be shooting your product, that's a whole

30:08

different thing. And that's somebody who can work in a

30:10

studio where quickly work

30:12

efficiently and maximize your

30:12

expenditure for that day. The

30:16

big thing about I find often

30:16

when I get calls for companies

30:19

to shoot for them for a day, I'm

30:19

not cheap and easy. No, but you

30:26

want to maximize your day. So I

30:26

don't want to waste anybody's

30:29

time or money. I want them to

30:29

get the most out of what they're

30:31

spending their money on. And so

30:31

you want to get a clear and

30:34

concise idea of what you need,

30:34

and what you want to have at the

30:38

end of the day in terms of

30:38

assets. If you're photographing

30:40

your product, well, how do you

30:40

want to photograph so that will

30:44

determine who you hire. And it

30:44

should be find somebody who

30:47

specializes in studio, you're

30:47

going to get a lot more out of a

30:49

day than you will if you're hiring somebody who's a lifestyle photographer and

30:51

shoots on beaches, they can

30:54

probably do that. They might not

30:54

do this quickly and efficiently.

30:56

If they're going into a studio,

30:56

if they know how to work a

30:58

camera and lights and stuff.

30:58

They're going to be able to do

31:01

it both situations. But you

31:01

really have to assess what you

31:04

need, first of all, and then

31:04

look at Instagram, get

31:07

referrals, talk to people look

31:07

at websites.

31:09

Do you think

31:09

that it's valuable to really

31:11

hone in and create a niche?

31:11

Like, you know, this is wedding

31:14

photographer or this is a

31:14

advertising photographer, this

31:17

is a boudoir photographer. I

31:17

mean, what's your take on

31:20

creating that niche and fine

31:20

tuning your brand as a

31:23

photographer to make sure people

31:23

know if they want a photographer

31:27

for like I said a wedding they

31:27

know to go to this guy you're

31:29

the go to for that particular niche.

31:31

I think it's somewhat defined by the market. You know, I'm Calgary based. So

31:33

in order to basically put bread

31:36

on the table in Calgary, you

31:36

have to have a multitude of

31:38

skills. I can say I'm an ad

31:38

photographer, and I'm a

31:41

corporate photographer. Those

31:41

are pretty all encompassing

31:43

terms. If I go to New York, and

31:43

I say I'm an ad photographer,

31:47

well, what kind of ad

31:47

photographer do you do food? Do

31:50

you do food inside? Do you do

31:50

only fish? Like literally it

31:54

could be that precise? That sort

31:54

of focus?

31:56

Is there photographers that are just like fish photographers? Fish

31:58

photographer costs out?

32:02

Maybe maybe not

32:02

quite does get that special?

32:05

Yeah, to specialize in purely

32:05

just in makeup, and shooting

32:08

lipstick and or those guys who

32:08

specialize in tromping things,

32:12

photographing stuff as it falls

32:12

through a frame. Like there's

32:14

guys that just have a very, very

32:14

specific niche. Wow, which is

32:18

easier to do now, because you

32:18

can work globally. I mean, you

32:21

could send your work anywhere.

32:21

If you're going to work in an

32:23

industry city like Calgary and

32:23

you want to work with actually

32:26

humans and not on the phone, you

32:26

have to be able to do a little

32:29

bit more and show that I used to

32:29

teach a class in a CAD a

32:32

portfolio development class. And

32:32

I would tell the students, where

32:35

are you going to show this book?

32:35

Where are you going to show your

32:37

portfolio and that was obviously

32:37

just electronically show your

32:40

book or actually, you know, a

32:40

hardcopy show your portfolio,

32:43

because that will determine if

32:43

you go into New York and you're

32:46

going to show it there, well,

32:46

you're not going to show a whole

32:48

broad base variety of things,

32:48

because you're not going to get

32:51

hired, if you got one image that

32:51

strikes a chord with the art

32:53

directors with what they're

32:53

after. Well, there's also going

32:56

to be a guy in New York that has

32:56

a whole book of images like

32:58

that, so he's going to get that

32:58

job. Whereas in Calgary can

33:01

local, it only takes one or two

33:01

images, sometimes to be the only

33:04

guy that does that in the city.

33:04

There's not as many

33:06

photographers to choose from. So

33:06

you have to be a little broader

33:09

base. But if you took that broad

33:09

based approach to the city like

33:12

New York, or even Toronto to the

33:12

DRI, London for sure, if you

33:15

took that book there, you'd

33:15

never get work, because it's too

33:18

broad based. Nobody can really

33:18

say, Oh, this is the guy to go

33:21

to for that. in Calgary, I have

33:21

the ability to say, Okay, I'm an

33:24

ad photographer. What does that

33:24

mean? I mean, my ads could be

33:27

anything from a person jogging

33:27

in a park or hiking a mountain,

33:31

or it could be a still life on a

33:31

table like it's very broad base.

33:34

So you talk about all these different campaigns, I have to ask, can

33:36

you tell us about the mermaid in

33:40

the tub picture? And what was

33:40

that all about?

33:42

That was a really

33:42

fun campaign. And that was her

33:45

brokerlink insurance. And they

33:45

wanted to really show a campaign

33:49

that said, no matter what

33:49

happens, they got you covered.

33:52

And so the whole campaign was

33:52

built around mythical creatures

33:56

messing up your ship. So it

33:56

started off, you know, we had

34:00

basically I think we had nine or

34:00

10 executions they wanted to put

34:03

out. And it was like, Oh, what

34:03

if you had a mermaid that was

34:06

living in your bathtub and

34:06

flooded your bathroom, but if

34:08

you had a Sasquatch, you wanted

34:08

a bowl of Froot Loops and

34:11

destroyed your kitchen in the

34:11

process. These are all things

34:14

that in theory, if these

34:14

happened to you, you'd be

34:16

covered by broken link

34:16

insurance. And, you know, that

34:20

was sort of the point of it. So

34:20

they came up to me with these

34:23

sort of wild ideas and it's

34:23

like, okay, execute these. And

34:27

I'm like, Okay, the first image

34:27

we did was actually was the

34:31

mermaid in the bathtub. It's all

34:31

problem solving, like I said,

34:34

gets back to creating the

34:34

decisive moment because the, you

34:37

know, we built the set, we built

34:37

a fake bathroom, you build the

34:40

fake bathroom inside of a,

34:40

basically an eight foot by 10

34:43

foot line sandbox, so we could

34:43

flood it. We built the set, got

34:47

all the props, got all that

34:47

stuff. We did have to photograph

34:50

the model separate in the

34:50

bathtub. Because first of all,

34:54

we needed warm water in the tub.

34:54

So we weren't killing our model.

34:57

And secondly, then we needed to

34:57

flood the room. And we weren't

35:01

gonna flood it with hot water

35:01

that was, you know, hundreds and

35:03

hundreds of gallons of water. So

35:03

once we had that shot, then we

35:07

kept the camera locked down and

35:07

we shot the bathroom where we

35:09

floated everything. It was

35:09

pieced together from about three

35:12

or four shots. Her tail in that

35:12

shot was a milk fish and

35:16

Malaysian milk fish that I

35:16

bought a TNT supermarket and

35:19

then wrapped around a wine

35:19

bottle and froze. So my eyes

35:23

curvature to it. That's amazing.

35:23

That's a beautiful picture.

35:26

Thank you. Yeah, no, it was it

35:26

was a lot of fun. That project,

35:29

the whole thing from start to

35:29

finish is such an exercise in

35:32

problem solving. There's just

35:32

one thing after next where the

35:35

Sasquatch came from where the

35:35

Sasquatch suit came from, it was

35:39

a healthy budget. It wasn't an

35:39

unlimited budget, so we had to

35:42

really think and come up with

35:42

ways to solve it. Yeah, it was

35:45

exciting. It was a lot of fun.

35:47

Oh, that's

35:47

great. Well, sounds fun. And

35:50

like I said, I saw the picture

35:50

and I had to ask you about it.

35:52

Well, Jason, thank you so much

35:52

for all your amazing information

35:57

and insight. Obviously, you're

35:57

extremely passionate about

35:59

photography. And like I said, I

35:59

can't say enough good things

36:02

about your work. So if someone

36:02

wants to learn more about you,

36:05

what's the best way for them?

36:05

Are you on social media at all?

36:08

I am. That's a

36:08

great way to learn about me.

36:10

I've gone through all this

36:10

branding exercise right? By

36:13

Instagram is not pretty but it's

36:13

okay. I don't have a lot of time

36:17

and I get finicky about what I

36:17

post. So So what's the best way

36:20

for someone to get ahold of you?

36:20

Instagram is Stanger. 68, which

36:23

is my year of birth. If you want

36:23

to do the math.

36:26

You're younger than me.

36:27

Really?

36:28

I'm older than everybody I interview practically.

36:30

That is crazy.

36:31

Yeah. Anyway,

36:32

Obviously you made

36:32

a deal with a devil so?

36:37

Well, anyway,

36:37

sorry. So how else?

36:39

My websites does if you

36:39

just go to Stang, photography,

36:42

calm. Okay, yeah, between those

36:42

two, you can find me and find

36:46

work and stuff like that. And

36:46

Stan photography probably has a

36:49

little bit more insight into who

36:49

I am and, and the work I do.

36:53

Okay, cool.

36:53

Well, thank you again, and

36:55

congrats on all your amazing

36:55

work. And I'll see like I said

36:58

the old campaign thanks for

36:58

sharing that information. And

37:00

you donated your time for that.

37:00

Right. That was all everything

37:03

was quite donation. Yeah.

37:03

Amazing. All right. Well, nice

37:07

to see you here.

37:08

It's very nice being here is very nice to touch base again.

37:10

Well, thanks

37:10

again. And we will definitely

37:12

stay in touch. Bye! And there you have it. I hope

37:19

you enjoyed the conversation and

37:22

maybe learned a few things to

37:22

help you with your branding.

37:25

Most of all, I hope you had some

37:25

fun. This show is a work in

37:29

progress. So please remember to

37:29

rate and review on whatever

37:32

platform you listen to podcasts.

37:32

And if you want to learn more

37:35

about me and what I do to help

37:35

my clients with their branding,

37:39

feel free to reach out to me on

37:39

any of the social channels under

37:42

you guessed it, branding, bad

37:42

branding matters was produced,

37:46

edited and hosted by Joelly.

37:46

Goodson awesome. So thanks again

37:51

and until next time, here's to

37:51

all you badass is out there