In today's episode of Brave in Business Bec chats with Eliza Ludwig about the bravery behind learning to say No in your business. Eliza Ludwig is an experienced financial analyst and the creator of The Flow Society, she offers wealth coaching to help you feel in control, reap the rewards, live life on your terms and enjoy a sense of achievement, freedom and fulfilment in business.

In this episode the two women chat about:

• - Using your financial data to make well-informed decisions about your business offerings
• - Why financial analysis is regularly needed in your business
• - How focusing on your business finances can give you back time without sacrificing profit
• - How saying No and leaving money on the table can sometimes be the best thing for you
• - Why a rebrand was a pivotal part of Eliza's business growth

If you are wanting to find flow in your business and make easier decisions based on the numbers so you can continue to do more of what you love, this episode is for you!
Find Eliza Ludwig here:

• Instagram
• Website

6. Eliza Ludwig from The Flow Society - Being Brave and Saying No - Transcript

Hi, I'm Bec McFarlane from popular business and popular career. In this podcast, I'll be speaking to entrepreneurs who have overcome adversity, made difficult decisions, challenged the status quo and achieved amazing things in their businesses. welcome to Braven business Eliza Ludwig is an experienced financial analyst and the creator of the Flow Society. The Flow Society offers wealth coaching for you and your business to feel in control, reap the rewards, live life on your terms and enjoy a sense of achievement, freedom and fulfilment. Based in Sydney's inner West, the Flow Society offers one on one coaching for those who really want to see tailored, accelerated results in their business. There are also guided self learning courses in the mix for those who want to take the bull by the horns and work independently on a targeted need. Hi, Eliza. Thank you so much for joining me. Welcome to the Raven business podcast. It is absolutely so exciting to be here. Awesome. So to get started, I would love for you to tell me a little bit about your business and how it is that you got to where you are today. So I basically help businesses to find flow in their business. So to be able to take away some of the stuff that people don't tend to love in business i e. Financial, looking at their numbers, making decisions based on the numbers And just so they can really stay in their flow in their zone of genius and I also obviously help with cash flow. So coming up with strategies that really improve their cash flow and giving them that sense of sort of clarity and, uh, knowing what's coming rather than, you know, sort of just playing it by ear and being worried about a big expense that comes up or something that happens at the last minute. So, yeah, I came into it. Actually, in my corporate role, I, uh, supported all the the functions. So similarly, really, I would support operations, functions or marketing. And I got put on a team to bring a new, completely new product to market, which was refrigerated dips. I worked for Smith Stack food, so that was potato chips. And this was something in the fridge. So something completely different. We basically had no information, and just basically had a team of experts and sort of really pulled it together. And I was really successful product. So and I just wanted to do that forever. I was like, This is why is there not a role that does this? so I thought I would sort of create it myself. Yeah, fantastic. I love that. And, you know, I I guess we were introduced by my event manager, Lauren Harkness. And I'm so glad that she connected us because I think, you know, just from having a look at your website and from having a chat, I can see that our values are really aligned in what we do around, you know, really helping business owners to focus on the work that actually lights them up and to get some of that other stuff off their plate. But what I also saw, you know, when I was having a look at your website was just that focus on helping business owners to feel more fulfilled by the work that they do. And really, my whole business is centred around fulfilment. So it was a great introduction from Lauren. I'm really pleased to have you here I am also very interested in what you were saying about helping business owners to get across their numbers. Um, I know myself that, you know, that's only something that I've started to do more recently. But a lot of business owners tend to not really have a lot of visibility across what's going on from a financial perspective in their business. And they do often tend to bury their head in the sand. Is that something that you come across? quite frequently in your business. You know, it's interesting there has been a bit of a change, but yeah, I will say absolutely. And I think also there's this tendency to go. Oh, I'm making a profit, you know? That's all I need to know. I just need to know that one number without maybe recognising that there's a mix of services or something that you're offering within that, one of which is making the money, and one of which isn't so. Sometimes I think we can look at the one number and sort of forget about all of that. Yeah, I think you mentioned it before, Sort of all the detail that's behind that. I think another aspect is that what really drives people generally to come to me is time. And so it's like, I know I need more money. I'm doing really well. I'm really busy, but I have no time. I have no time to increase, you know, have have take on more clients or to run, you know, to make more products than more product. So it's sort of time seems to be the thing that actually really forces them to realise they need to focus on their finances. It's interesting. Yeah, I do find that interesting. And I can really relate to it myself because I have got this constant kind of limiting belief that hovers over me. My team gets sick and tired of me saying it, but I'm always saying I don't have time. I don't have time and I've had to really, you know, think about the language that I'm using and start to actually change that to. It's not a priority at the moment because of the fact that I think the more that I tell myself, I don't have time, the more that that's likely to actually come into existence. Yeah, but I think finance is such an interesting topic because, you know, for a lot of people, including myself, there's a real kind of fear factor, uh, around it, which will definitely talk about more today for me. I know that that fear factor comes from a place of like, being the unknown. Like I I know that I'm not good with numbers, so it all feels a little bit complicated. Do you find that as well, or are there other reasons? Do you think that people tend to kind of steer clear of looking deeper into that information. Yeah, I I think Yeah, that is one of the one of the the things that hold people back. I think another aspect is around. They think everything needs to be perfect. You know, it's like cleaning the house before the cleaner comes. You know, it's like, Oh, all of my numbers have to be exactly correct and everything has, you know, otherwise I can't get any help. And actually, what I do is very different to bookkeepers or accountants. I really do the analysis. So I will look at the different offers. that somebody has and how much profit they're earning per hour. So very little of it actually has to do with their bookkeeping. I mean, I really need price lists, and I need time and stuff like that. So I think that is one of those the the the fear things that I I may judge them or that that everything that might not be perfect and again I might judge them or that it means they can't, you know, sort of look at things. And, you know, it just goes back to that thing that we all know that You know, if it's 80% correct, then you know, or even 60% you know, it's much better than avoiding it altogether. Well, at least it's a starting point, I guess. And then there's sort of scope to, uh, to improve things. But, you know, it's something that I guess I'm very interested in around using that data to actually make decisions about the future of the business. And I think you know, when you get to that point where you are, actually able to look at some of the information and use that to forecast and and to make decisions about products and services. It is so powerful, so powerful. So I really love what you're doing. So we're here today to talk about being brave in business. This is obviously a topic that I'm very interested in. I'd love to know from you when you hear that phrase brave in business, What does that mean to you? Yeah, I love that. Because the first thing I thought was I'm not very brave. So that was an interesting thing to have come to mind. Um, but then I was also reflecting on, and we were sort of talking about it before Sydney's in a relatively extended lockdown, not as long as Melbourne or or other areas of the world. But I'm sort of like, Gosh, I I actually on the whole feel. OK, so maybe I am braver than I I've been giving myself credit for So that would probably be something is I think we're all braver than we probably give ourselves credit for. But I think one of the things I've been really brave in in business is actually saying no. So, um, I have, you know, worked for or with people, and it hasn't been right and it's not easy, but I have had to have those conversations and sort of say It's it's not right it I've also had to turn clients down potential clients down. If I can see that Their business really needs to be focusing on something else before I can help them. Then you know, I will let them know that. So, yeah, that's kind of that's kind of a brave thing, because you think that's actually turning income down. But I also don't want that person to leave the experience and think, Oh, well, that's not what I wanted. And that's not getting me to where I want. You know, I don't want them to to be left with that, so I would prefer to say no than just forge ahead. Mm. And I can kind of relate to that in my business because I, you know, have made a commitment to myself and have set a boundary around the fact that I'll only work with clients who I really want to work with. And I know that feeling of that fear around saying no. And you know what if this is the last client that I ever You know what if I need the money and those kinds of things, But for me, like given the fact that I talk about fulfilment so much, I feel like it would be a bit hypocritical of me to work with clients I wasn't fully aligned with. Yeah, completely. That whole saying no, uh is I guess a really interesting phenomenon that is becoming more and more spoken about this idea of the fact that we don't have to be a people pleaser and that no is a full sentence. Um, I know it's something that I'm continuing to work on. Is that something that's come natural to you? Or is it something that you've started to build upon? No, not at all. I was actually, uh, I just heard something. Uh, the other week, and the person was saying that, you know, they they find it even difficult to say to their friend what day and time It suits them to catch up, I that just went That is me, you know, to even that level of boundary as it were or that level of, um, assertiveness. So I would say Probably not. I am a real people pleaser, and I definitely have that fear as this The last client, um, you know, is am I making a really big mistake? But I think ultimately I know how I will. I I have, I suppose it comes from experience as well. I took on a client once and she was in a particular type of business. That I just I actually thought was not doing her, uh, was doing her a disservice. And I tried to communicate that to her, but she couldn't see it, and we just never It just never gelled. And it's just like, you know, I really should have just said at the start this isn't something I want to deal with. So, yeah, I think you're learning from experience. Yeah, I think we all are. And I mean, it's probably a topic for another day, but I think it's definitely something that I see introverts struggling with a lot more. I use disc a lot in my business, which is a behavioural profiling tool, and, uh, and I definitely see that it's my S N C or more introverted clients who struggle with that decision making and the boundary setting and really kind of standing up for their belief. and yeah, I think for us. Maybe it is just that little bit harder to have our voice heard, but good on you for working on it. I'm working on it, too. It's not always great like we were talking about before we started recording. You know, this is where that growth is and and where the discomfort is so important for us, for, you know, for the future of our not just our businesses but ourselves as human beings. So what do you think? The bravest thing is that you've done in your business so far? Well, ending an agreement with, uh with this particular client that I was mentioning I really liked them as a person so it was really, really difficult to say no there. I don't know if she could understand sort of what the what the reasoning was. So that was really difficult. I think you know something that's brave. It is actually sometimes sending a sales proposal. So it is just that clicking send and waiting for the response. and really wanting to work with somebody? But then also, um, being brave enough to put the price on there that you know that you're worth that, you know that it's gonna take you, you know, x amount of time, and it's gonna be worth it for them. It's going to pay back for them as well. So But, yeah, sometimes I find that quite a brave act. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Uh, and I feel that so much. Um, I am actually sitting on a few podcast episodes at the moment that I'm waiting to put into the Google Drive folder for my beautiful podcast editor, Mickey. and even that for me is something that, you know, I've been really holding back on. The podcast episodes are amazing, but I think it is just that hitting send. All of a sudden it becomes real, and it's no longer just an idea. It's something that's happening. Uh, that can be really scary. Yeah, yeah, I only recently realised I'm a perfectionist. I sort of thought I was a procrastinator, and I probably am both. But it's only recently that I've realised, or somebody's helped me realise that that's a perfectionist trait, you know, And I had never thought about it. I was like, but I I never get anything perfect. You're waiting for it to be perfect. Actually, do it. So, yeah, we've got the gorgeous Emma Norris from a girl in progress, is gonna be speaking at the popular business conference later this year, and you will definitely want to hang out for her key presentation. She has written a fabulous book about this topic, and, uh, and I know that she's got a lot of wisdom to share. Cool. Can't wait this episode was brought to you by the Popular Business Conference. It's all going down here in Canberra at the stunning Aloni Hotel on the 11th and 12th of March 2022. We have the most incredible speakers travelling in from around Australia, including sus Chadwick. Sarah Jensen. Emma Norris From a Girl in Progress and Jay Bourne from hipster Mum. We have surprises galore, And I can promise you that this will be an event that you'll be talking about for a long time to come. And for all the right reasons, tickets are available now at pop your business dot com forward slash conference. I look forward to seeing you there. So why do you think it is important that we do step outside of our comfort zone as business owners I think that we can't continue to grow unless we do. and I know we've sort of already touched on that before in our conversation. But I studied ho horticulture at uni, and I always thought I'd be end up being an organic farmer. That's what I wanted to do. But I was the The thing that immediately came to mind is a plant continues to grow through its whole life, and it's always pushing boundaries. Can I get bigger? Can I get wider? Can I pull out more flowers? And that's how it survives. And that's how it goes on to, you know, create a legacy. Or, you know, other flowers or other trees around it, So I just think if we don't, then we we risk not growing, and I again, again, again. It's scary and it, you know, you have to be pretty brave to do it, but, um, yeah, it's just a really good just the only way to grow. Really? Because otherwise we would just stay as 18 year olds and never learn things. Never, Never. it's interesting because as I'm doing more and more of these podcast interviews and I ask that question, growth is something that continues to come up. You know, a lot of my guests are saying, You know, it's it's all about the growth. I wonder. What I've found is that, you know, since I became a business owner, I became a lot more interested, you know, not just in business growth, but also in personal growth. Do you do you see a correlation between that interest in growth or motivation to grow and that kind of entrepreneurial spirit? Yes. I think I remember I met somebody also through Lauren Harkness, actually, but she She sort of said, Oh, I'm just obsessed with, like, self help books and business growth books and I said, Oh, me, too. And then the more I've sort of admitted that I realised a lot of people, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs are exactly the same, so I think it definitely is. And I think there is a sense in which we You sort of feel that, you know, we have to keep, uh I suppose what I'm trying to say is growth isn't just about increasing your profit or increasing your you know, it's also about personal growth, as you've just mentioned. It's about feeling happier and what you're doing, feeling really happy when you're finished with a A client. You know, if a project comes to an end or you know things that you know, they're moving on to the next project or whatever it might be. Growth is feeling really good about that relationship and what you've offered and and the way that you've worked together, so Yeah, for sure. I think there is a really close correlation. Yeah, Yeah, I just kind of I mean, I've been in business now for about six years. And even when I try and think back, I guess I've always been kind of interested in the personal growth and the self help books and things like that. But it wasn't until I kind of delved into the business world that all of a sudden personal growth became more of a priority and something that I was so much more focused on. Uh and I think it's a totally positive thing because we all know that in business, You know, mindset is so important, but I guess I'm just I am interested to see as we continue this podcast, you know, that common theme of growth really coming out and and what that's kind of looking like for people. So thanks for sharing that. Yeah. Interesting. I love that. Yeah. So we've talked a little bit about fear. Uh, and I see being brave as being quite heavily linked with fear. Often it is fear of failure. We do sometimes see fear of success. But sometimes it's a little bit harder to identify. Um, talk about failure. Have you experienced any of those kind of failures in your business, or has anything ever not gone to plan? Uh, and if it did, like, what did you do? How did you get past it? Well, I suppose I think in a sense, I did have a fear of success in that when I first started business, I would, you know, sort of put up one post about what I did and then sort of call out a day and never talk about what I did again. Or I'd go to one network eating event and give my business card. It feels very archaic now to somebody and again just call it a day. It would be like, OK, I've given out three business cards. That's it for the quarter sort of thing, cos I'm also, um, quite introverted, so it would really have to sort of gear myself up to do that, So I wish that I had have been a bit braver then, and I feel I would have been further along if I had have just pushed myself a bit further. But I can't get that time back. So moving on, I think another thing, though, is when I first started my business, it was called bread budgeting. So I was really focused on creating budgets for people, and I was working with a business coach and just one day just out of the blue she was typing something and she said, You gotta change your name She says, You sound like you're saving money to be able to afford a loaf of bread. And I was like, Oh, and it was just a lightning bolt and so completely rebranded, probably just over a year ago, and so I won't say that the first iteration failed, but I'm certainly really happy that it's evolved into what it is now. Yeah, and I love the flow society. I mean, just what an absolutely beautiful name and flow is something that comes up a lot when I'm talking to to my clients, and I know that I'm often looking for really cute passages out of books and things like that that talk about flow. So it is I I think it's a a bit more of a progression of the way that particularly female entrepreneurs are working. You know, we saw you know, when I first started in business six years ago, one of the first books that I read was the Tim Ferris four hour work week. And you know, we're kind of pushing past that hustle. culture and moving more into a state of flow where we're focused on our fulfilment and and focused on, you know, kind of working with our own rhythms and things like that as well. So I think it is very, very cool. But going through that rebranding process, you know, I've often thought about it, Um, and it's really bloody scary. So how did you like, overcome the fear? How did you like? Was it just that after your business coach mentioned that to you, you just made a decision and went for it. Or were there some mindset and that had to happen? That is a really good question. I I looking back on it. I'm sort of a bit I I suppose I just what it was was I couldn't articulate through my brain all through my you know, I couldn't figure out what my ST story was. My brand story, my business story. I really couldn't tie it back to bread budgeting because a budget is seriously the very last tiniest part of what I actually do. So I think I could just under I could just realise that I couldn't. I couldn't communicate through my brand, And I couldn't help people. I couldn't bring people along. And I think I'll do my budget myself. I I don't need You know your help to do that. So I think it was really a realisation that I was just banging my head against a wall in terms of explaining my brand. So that's really what it started with was around defining my brand's story. And then it was just, uh I worked with a branding, uh, expert. And so it just started with the story and just sort of naturally flowed literally the whole time from the next step, the next step to the next step. So, yeah, um, that's amazing. That's amazing. And I think you know what you've kind of explained is that it It almost was a necessity for you to do that. And for you to really be able to blossom into the brand that you wanted to be in. So I can imagine that although there would have been some fear around it, the fear of not doing it was probably worse than the fear of actually going through that process completely. Absolutely. I just continually felt like I was coming into a brick wall. And ever since I've changed, I just feel so much happier and and and much easier and much more in flow. Yes, exactly. I love it, love it. So if you were talking to another business owner and you had a sense that they were not going after their dreams because of the fact that they had some fear lying around, what advice would you give to them? I would I would say to them, find something that that feels in alignment with you. I know when I first started in business, I thought, sort of the way I felt that the way to get through it was to, you know, go to all of these events and hand out my business cards and it just was so at odds with who I was and or or, you know, join something big like, um, key person of influence or something like that. I thought that was sort of the only path that I could take, you know, And I was just like, No, that part doesn't work for me. This part does. So that's how I met. Lauren was through a different area where? you know, we would meet, I would meet with other women who were in business who are very similar to myself, and it would just float again. But it was It just felt a lot more in alignment with who I was and what I was trying to achieve. And it wasn't sort of suits, And digging each other up in terms of Oh, well, I've written three books, you know, it was none of that. It was just, you know, and I realised it doesn't have to be that way, you know, And it doesn't have to just be, you know, creating massive online courses and doing the huge launches. You don't have to do that, you know, if you don't want to. So I think, Yeah, find Find the areas of business that a you would love doing, ongoing and B that you feel comfortable and feel aligned with who you are and and what you like doing. Mm. That's very cool. And something that I talk about a lot with my business coaching clients often they are quite shocked when I tell them you don't have to do anything. And they often ask me, You know, how often should I do this? Or what should I do about this? And my response to them is always there are no rules to create your own rules. Good to you. Uh, and I think for myself being a really keen aesthetic human, I feel a lot whether that be, you know, from a a physical perspective or even an emotional perspective. And so I'm always challenging my clients to kind of step into their feelings and kind of go like, what? What feels right, you know, Does it feel right to post on social media every day? Yeah, absolutely. So, Eliza, I'm really excited to have you speaking at the upcoming Popular Business Conference. What are you most looking forward to about the event? Yeah, So this is gonna sound funny, because I I am an introvert, but I'm really excited to meet everyone to meet you and person. And, you know, just see everybody. Because although I haven't met you people in person because I sort of communicate with you on instagram or, you know, talking to you now, et cetera, I sort of feel like I do know you. So I think that's the biggest thing. And obviously, after a lockdown, It would be really good to be out of my city. Yeah, it's gonna be great to have that human connection, right? Yeah, absolutely. I almost feel like the popular business Conference is gonna be like this really big reunion Because Sarah Jensen, who's coming from Adelaide, is a good friend of mine who I just haven't seen in ages. Uh, you know, I haven't seen sus Chadwick, I think, since the end of 2019. And you know, we've We've got all these people kind of coming from from lots of different places who I know from online. and who a lot of the attendees you know, know and engage with online, but haven't met in person or haven't seen in a long time. And I think after such an extensive period of lockdown throughout Australia with Melbourne and Sydney and even Adelaide recently having a lockdown, I feel like when you know, when this happens, when we're all able to get together in a room, it is going to be so much more powerful and so much more, you know, just exciting and, uh, and fulfilling because of the fact that, you know, we haven't been able to connect like this for and you know, I'm definitely, uh, very, very introverted as well I always say I'm like, one of the most extreme introverts that you'll ever meet. But I am really looking forward to that just being in the room and hopefully being able to hug everyone I know. Well, I'm vaccinated. I'm halfway there, so I will be vaccinated by the conference, and I'm hoping it's gonna be a big hug fest. Yes, I know. Me too. Me too. awesome. So what's coming up in your business that you would like to tell the audience about? I think things are sort of changing with the business, as you know, as business changes. But at the moment I'm really just being in lockdown and sort of having odd times available. I'm running sort of a series of workshops, so they're low cost. Just pop in. It's an hour of your time, and I always give templates and things For you guys, for for attendees to take away and do some of this stuff themselves. So rather than it being a a self guided sort, Of course, it's really just me sort of talking through the concepts and people can ask me questions and stuff. And I'm just loving it and that in a way, it feels like, really good practise for the for the popular business conference. So in terms of seeing what people are are how things are resonating. Yeah, and really helping people in the business now without, you know, having to to do it all themselves, I suppose. Cool. Cool. It sounds like I'm out there to check out some of those workshops. Love to have you be really fun. Really fun. So where can people find you online if they want to find out more about what you're doing. My, uh, website is the flow society dot com dot a u And, uh, but my favourite place to hang out is Instagram, So I'm the underscore Flow underscore society. Fantastic. Yeah. So come say hi. That'd be great. We will make sure that all of your links are in the show notes, um, so that people can come by and, uh, definitely. If you're reaching out to Eliza, let her know that you heard her on the braving business podcast. We would love that, too. Yes. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here today. It has been such a pleasure finally being face to face with you, even on zoom just so that we can have a bit more of a chat and get to know each other. Um, but really appreciate your time. You too, Beck. Thank you so much for having me. I really, really loved it. Thanks, Eliza. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Braven Business podcast. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button. Leave me a rating. Five stars, preferably and a review. You can also join me over on socials at popular beers If you wanna hang out with me and my fabulous community of small business owners. You should definitely think about joining Beck's business besties. It's an online membership with mastermind vibes and is honestly my favourite place to hang out on the Internet. You can find out more at pop your business dot com forward slash b b b. I'll see you in the next episode,