Perspectives - Michael Gerber 

[00:01:00] [00:00:00] Sharon: [00:00:00] Everybody welcome to this episode of Perspectives. I am so thrilled to introduce today's guest to you. You may have heard a little bit of his voice before you may have recognized his voice, and I'm not going to reveal his name because I truly believe nearly all of our viewers will know this man have read his book and hopefully be applying some of the messages that are in it.

[00:01:25] He is an extraordinary, innovative, extraordinary human being. He's so warm and generous. He's an entrepreneur. He's definitely a thought leader. He's the author of so far and counting 21 books, including a mega selling business book that really is considered probably, the most important, if not one of the most important business books in the world ever written, he published it in back in 1986, he did a review of it in 1995, and it has been selling as a bestseller since [00:02:00] then, which is incredible. The Wall Street Journal named this book, the number one business book of all time.

[00:02:06] It sold millions of copies. Its expertise has been applied throughout businesses throughout the world in 29 languages, the world's number one, small business guru because of his series of books. And since founding his organization and a number of different companies, he has served in excess of a hundred thousand small business clients, helping them successfully transform their business, including my businesses.

[00:02:38] His dream is to transform the state of small business worldwide. This is of course, Michael Gerber. He's a fabulous human being. We met way back in 2006. We were at a convention together. I had a very baby stage. He had a much, a biggest stage and I managed to catch him just as he was going on stage. And I shared with him a challenge I was having.

[00:03:00] [00:02:59] Straight out having just met me. He said, you need to get over your narcissistic urge to be on stage, being the only one who can deliver that thing that needs to stop right now. Then he swept off onto stage and I thought all hell, Michael Gerber, there he goes. Then later I got into a smaller room. I paid the upsell.

[00:03:17] I got into a smaller ring. That was just 20 of us. And I was the only one who asked questions. I apologized at one point for taking up the whole time, but I had Michael Gerber for an hour. So he's book, the E-Myth, is obviously the book I was speaking about . The E-Myth and the message he gave me has been the backbone, the vision, the guiding posts for how I've built my coaching businesses.

[00:03:44] I credit the systems at our businesses. And how I've replaced myself in my businesses with Michael Gerber and his message in the E-Myth. It is considered one of the top business books ever written, but he's written others as well. So we're going to be talking in this conversation [00:04:00] about The E-Myth Revisited, Awaken the Entrepreneur Within and Beyond the E-Myth.

[00:04:04] And I'm going to be asking him at the end about what is a legacy. The message is so simple in the E-Myth and in the books he's written yet seems so smoky to too many people. I really trust this podcast, helps anybody viewing it, how to think about their lives and their businesses and how they are creating their legacy.

[00:04:26] And here he is without further await awaiting, Mr. Michael Gerber. Hey, Michael. Hello. 

[00:04:35] Michael: [00:04:35] How are you? I'm good. I'm fine. How are you? Well,

[00:04:46] well, you're wonderful. 

[00:04:50] Sharon: [00:04:50] I've been doing my reading. Wonderful. I read them in sequence. I read The EMyth Revisited, then Awakening the [00:05:00] Entrepreneur Within and then Beyond the EMyth in 2016. And I noticed the, the story act -was that by design? So I noticed the hero's journey that you had in the three.

[00:05:15] Was that a deliberate or my just over noticing something that wasn't there. 

[00:05:23] Michael: [00:05:23] First of all, you're not over noticing anything. I can absolutely promise you that. On the other hand, the books showed up at the time they were called to show up. So, no, I didn't plan from the very beginning at revisited that I wouldn’t be right.

[00:05:44] Awakening the Entrepreneur within I didn't plan it - it just showed up. So I might say that my entire history has [00:06:00] been simply, it just showed up and I, I, so I'm not going to take credit for some grand scheme. Yeah. Um, all be it that the grand scheme does exist.

[00:06:17] Sharon: [00:06:17] It is. So to me, there's the ordinary world. So in the hero's journey, I think you're familiar with Joseph Campbell's work in the, yes, the hero has a thousand mass or a hundred mass, a lot of mass. This one is ordinary world to me, pointing out why ordinary world should be painful to us. And we'll oversee, unpack this in more detail for our viewers who aren't familiar with your work, which would be staggering, like three people.

[00:06:43] But to me, this was ordinary world pointing out why the problem is and why staying there should be painful. And then you give indications on where the extraordinary world is. Then we get into this book and you really paying a great and magnificent picture of the universe. When you [00:07:00] get out of ordinary world and into extraordinary world.

[00:07:02] And in this one, you show us how to be your own hero, which to me is the ultimate mythological journey that ultimately, we should be inspiring ourselves. So by the time we get to this book, I almost felt like a graduate. I felt like I was I'd graduated too. 

[00:07:20] Michael: [00:07:20] Well, it's wonderful the way you envision it.

[00:07:25] Um, the way you've interpreted it. And I say, it's wonderful because you're bringing your own experience to the listener, to the reader, to the thinker, the dreamer, the storyteller, the leader, you're bringing your own experience to it. And as you bring your own experience to it, you're bringing that internal life forum that has revealed itself to you.

[00:07:52] Sharon: [00:07:52] Yeah, that's how I saw it. And it meant a lot to me that I felt that you were with me as I built my business all those years ago. [00:08:00] So it has been very significant to the building of our businesses. E-Myth is where it began for me. The E-Myth is required reading for entire (TCI) curriculum. So, so far that would be in existence.

[00:08:13] That's literally tens of thousands of people. I consider it. The first book people should read when they're endeavoring to start a business. Because as you say in the E-Myth, don't start the business until you recognize yourself and what you're going to do wrong. If you don't have this information. So to me, it's you, you don't start the Monopoly game until, you know, the game to me, you don't start the business until, you know, the game you're about to play.

[00:08:41] And most people start not even knowing the game they signed up for. They're playing Scrabble when they're actually playing Monopoly. They don't 

[00:08:50] Michael: [00:08:50] even know what a game. 

[00:08:52] Sharon: [00:08:52] Yes. 

[00:08:54] Michael: [00:08:54] Because they don't even know what to game. They're completely absorbed [00:09:00] in self. And not self in the, with the great S but self with the little less, I'm doing it, doing it, doing self, doing it, doing it, doing itself, then want to be doing it doing itself.

[00:09:16] And it's such a tragedy. It's such a tragedy because we both know, we all know as we're speaking about this year, um, that, that little self, um, absorbed as he or she. Um, invariably is, um, misses the whole point of self and it is a tragedy and it breeds a tragedy and we become absorbed in that tragedy to the point where there is no future beyond that little self, as I say, doing it, [00:10:00] doing it, doing it, doing it busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, busy.

[00:10:04] So yeah, they're unaware of the game. We're about to play. And that's what revisit it was all about the game we're about to play. And my primary aim, my strategic objective, my organizational strategy, my management strategy might, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I’m working on it, not in it, working on it, not in it, working above it, beyond it and so forth and so forth.

[00:10:32] And that's the key to this game that you've been playing you individually had been playing and then you've been inviting every single one of your clients I presume to play. 

[00:10:49] Sharon: [00:10:49] Yes. Yeah. I really took on board a couple of times. You've said particularly about coaches because obviously one of the business I have is a coaching school.

[00:10:58] Uh, [00:11:00] Coaches to me. And I do want to unpack the E-Myth and talk about the principles of the book for those who aren't familiar with a malicious dive into what really struck me, Michael was - I think coaches have the biggest entrepreneurial seizure of them. All practitioners who think the skill is the business, the doing of that coaching session of selling one hour of their time is the point is missing the point.

[00:11:27] And Michael I've been saying for 18 years, 18 years, I have been speaking this language of how are you replacing yourself? And we designed the program. So anybody who wants to replace themselves can, but still do you notice people's, uh, vision. To letting go of the technician. You must see it the way I see it.

[00:11:50] They're just holding on so tight to their hourly rate. Yeah, of 

[00:11:55] Michael: [00:11:55] course. And it's been that way since the very beginning. And it [00:12:00] continues today. Um, the solar preneur thing, um, which is, um, sort of agreeing there's an entrepreneur. Um, within that, just to get beyond that so that we can get back to doing it, doing it, doing it, doing it, and creating this whole mythology.

[00:12:26] That is so destructive of the solopreneur. Um, there is no such thing as a solopreneur. There never has been. There never will be. It's simply a guy doing it, doing it and doing it, doing it and missing the entire freaking point. So yes, that you've been so invested in driving your students beyond that at the coach level and with the clients of that coach, speaks [00:13:00] magnitudes about what you've been attempting to do.

[00:13:06] I don't know how successfully you've done that. Other than to say that I know you've succeeded at growing an enterprise. Yeah, upon that. 

[00:13:18] Sharon: [00:13:18] I think we hit some success. Well, okay. So we have lots of success with the people who hear the message the way I heard you. So I simply am an advocate of that message that I heard from you all those years ago, because I studied the E-Myth when I started my business and the way I feel about it, Michael if this I can, in all conscience know I have the successes I've had with my coaching school.

[00:13:42] If I hadn't given my students, the reason why I have this success. So for every minute we teach them a coaching skill. I have to, I also match it with one minute. So for every hour of coaching skill, there was an hour of training. And how to think about working on your business because I [00:14:00] canl conscience it two decades later.

[00:14:02] So I've had all this success because I built an enterprise that replaced me. I haven't worked to my business for nearly 10 years now, whilst I just taught everybody else had to just be stuck in their businesses. So the message has been very consistent, mainly for my conscience, because I couldn't look at people and say, I want you to sell your time for money, because that will help me.

[00:14:23] So the message has been there all the way through the people who come to us because they want to feel great about themselves. That's what they get the people who want to have some part time income. That's what they get. People want full-time income and just love coaching the practitioner. I encourage them to stay in their lane.

[00:14:40] You don't have to become an entrepreneur. You don't have to replace yourself as long as you know that when you go on holiday, so does your income, and that's what you want to sign up for. We will teach you that. And then there's the next cohort who say, well, I'm going to learn the skill, turn it into a system so I can step back and [00:15:00] replicate myself.

[00:15:01] So we have four distinct groups throughout our programs. 

[00:15:05] Michael: [00:15:05] I got it. To me, in my mindset, so to speak is to continually challenge the first, the second, the third to come face to face with the fourth. Yes, because in my heart, my soul in my spirit, that when one fails to do that, they fail to take themselves on to the degree that is simply waiting for them to do that.

[00:15:46] And when they fail to do that, they're failing to bring to those students, their coaching, the true spirit that is possible, [00:16:00] once they awaken to it. So it's like each and every one of them, the first and the second and the third. And then the fourth is simply a potentially a movable object, who I'm determined to upset.

[00:16:30] Sharon: [00:16:30] That's it perfectly 70%. So a hundred percent start here, 70% end up in the fourth cohort. We just the whole time just,

[00:16:43] Michael: [00:16:43] and you're saying, and you're saying, join me. Yeah, that's what you're, it's an invitation. It's not an exclusive creation. It's an invitation. Join me, join me. I live in a world you've never [00:17:00] seen before I live in an experience you've never had before. Join me, join me. I know you enjoy where you are. I know you feel safe where you are.

[00:17:11] I know you feel productive where you are and all of those are self-righteous and probably true, but they're not the game that's waiting. To be played info. Yeah. Discover who you could potentially bring to this table in order to transform the state of the people you're engaging with every day. So you get to do that.

[00:17:45] And so, because you get to do that, what else are you going to do? I mean, what else is 

[00:17:55] Sharon: [00:17:55] there to do? What else is there to do that to [00:18:00] me, you, you are the song that needs to be sung and everything else is the harmony. So the message of the E-Myth revisited to me is the major song. It's the backbone that should guide any movement towards building a business.

[00:18:14] And I know you had your own epiphany Michael, many years ago, not too many years ago, it was like yesterday, but you had your first epiphany when it's incredible story. If anybody who anybody, if the millions of people could possibly not have read the E-Myth revisited, the I'm speaking to two people right now, there is a moment in their book where you share that you, you knew there was a piece missing.

[00:18:37] And it was a blinding flash of this is so obvious once you saw it. Can you tell us, do you mind repeating that story? Because I think it's an might 

[00:18:47] Michael: [00:18:47] I can, uh, you're going to have to lead me into it. 

[00:18:52] Sharon: [00:18:52] Allow drop a few more breadcrumbs for you. It's the moment you realize this in [00:19:00] 1977 and you walked into a McDonald's hamburger joint.

[00:19:03] Uh, 

[00:19:04] Michael: [00:19:04] not enough. Okay. Well, sure. It's more than enough. I walked into a McDonald's hamburger joint to get a hamburger. And I suddenly came to realize that this McDonald's hamburger joint was significantly beyond what I went there to get. What I actually got was the realization of what a system truly meant.

[00:19:42] I became enraptured by the. Possibility that I could do the very same thing in short, that I was going to create the McDonald's of small business development services that McDonald's of [00:20:00] small business coaching services that McDonald's of small business consulting services. And my dream, um, truly came to me at that point that I'm going to transform the state of small business worldwide.

[00:20:15] And the only way that could be done is if I did what Ray Kroc did at McDonald's. So yeah, I saw the franchise and I fell in love with it. I realized that it was the first time I'd actually understood it as I did in that very. The library compelling moment. It struck me. And it's true when I say this, that this is how it happens with entrepreneurs.

[00:20:53] It finds you, you don't find it, but you have to be [00:21:00] a blank piece of paper. And beginner's mind at the process ensured there has to be something completely out of the way. You have to be completely open to the possibility that something astonishing is going to happen to me and that something is finishing is waiting to happen.

[00:21:20] So when you talked about your realization, something astonishing happened to you, as you experienced the E-Myth revisited and allowed it to take you in. It was that Holy moly experience. It's that sudden seeing. And that sudden seeing is unlike anything else that happens to us. And thank God it's happening.

[00:21:53] Sharon: [00:21:53] Thanks. I'm glad it happened for me, but I have to say, Mike, I see a lot of people who see the message here, the message you grew with the [00:22:00] message and then ignore it. So they're not having to me the obvious of epiphany. 

[00:22:05] Michael: [00:22:05] No, of course they ignored because they're afraid of it. They're afraid of it. You understand?

[00:22:13] It's just, it's just that they're afraid of it because they are challenged by it to become someone they're terrified. They'll never become. I can't do that. I can't do that is what rises within them. I can't do that. I can't do that. And what if I did, what if I did, what then? What would happen? You follow me.

[00:22:44] Sharon: [00:22:44] Yeah. And it's also, I don't know how to do that, but of course. 

[00:22:48] Michael: [00:22:48] Yeah, of course. I don't know how to do that. I've never done that. I have no idea, but 

[00:22:53] Sharon: [00:22:53] yeah, all I've done is sold my time for money. I don't understand that it could be any other way. [00:23:00] Well, 

[00:23:00] Michael: [00:23:00] I see that knowing my time for money is so hard anyway.

[00:23:04] Yes. Yeah. It's so hard. And it, I mean to then think about going beyond spelling my time for money and actually creating a methodology through which everybody could sell their time for money, meaning replacing myself in that. It's just. Far too threatening. 

[00:23:29] Sharon: [00:23:29] Hm. And I do notice that people who have, are exposed to the message long enough, eventually start hearing it sometime for you use walked into McDonald's for me, I picked up the E-Myth and I met you for the very first time.

[00:23:43] That was enough. But for others, repetition becomes, starts breeding familiarity, which breeds more comfort. I have noticed as people have moved throughout programs, they get more comfortable with the idea of letting go of the tightness and starting to look at the, on instead of in the business. Have you noticed that [00:24:00] as well, that sometimes familiarity helps the epiphany become a reality?

[00:24:05] Michael: [00:24:05] Well, yes. I've noticed it because they become more familiar with the store. My co-author of the E-Myth HVHC. Contractor, Ken Goodrich when he started with the events, not when he started as an HPAC contractor, but when he started with the E-Myth and that's after he failed as an HVHC contractor, he read the book, then he read the book a second time.

[00:24:41] Ken Goodrich read the book 39 times. Yes. Yeah. Think about that. 

[00:24:46] Sharon: [00:24:46] 39 times. I read it five times in my fifth year in business. 

[00:24:54] Michael: [00:24:54] You're as crazy as I am. What can I? Yeah, but it struck me, it [00:25:00] struck me, it struck me, it struck me and each time he read it, he saw something more. Each time he read it, he saw something more.

[00:25:08] So each time he saw something more, he was capable of thinking beyond where he was to grade something he'd never done before. Yeah. So yes, I have seen that. I know that. I've heard that again and again and again and again. Unfortunately, and sadly, I just don't hear it enough. I wish I could hear it.

[00:25:35] A million times, you understand that literally we could transform the state of entrepreneurship worldwide. You and I could actually do that to a degree. Never imagined possible before. 

[00:25:54] Sharon: [00:25:54] Yes I 

[00:25:55] Michael: [00:25:55] do. Yep. If somehow, if some way we [00:26:00] were able to literally drag them, kicking and shaking and whatever they were to get them to do the first thing.

[00:26:12] And then the second thing, and then the third thing and in the process of get, getting them to do the first thing and the second thing, and the third thing. Suddenly the fourth thing would get done almost on its own. 

[00:26:27] Sharon: [00:26:27] Yes, that's right. And that in and get out of the inertia the way I see you've got to get out of the initial inertia.

[00:26:35] It's like getting a rocket ship out of gravity and the rock, the energy it takes to get the rocket ship going is massive. And I get that first burn is hard, but the burn gets easier as gravity gets less. And eventually we're just, it's automatic. But people got to get past that first rocket burn. Cause that burn, it hurts.

[00:26:54] Michael: [00:26:54] Yes. And they've got to get past it. There's no question, but they have to get past 

[00:26:59] Sharon: [00:26:59] it [00:27:00] and they have to go through 

[00:27:01] Michael: [00:27:01] it. Yeah, yeah. Right. You can't do it for them. You can't do it for them. You can't do it for them. You can't take that pain away. Yeah. That's cheating but the truth is once that pain is experienced, once they break through that barrier, it takes them the next step and the next step and the next step.

[00:27:31] And suddenly they're in a liberation stage, which is a state all of its own. Yeah. So our job, your job, my job, your job, more than my job now in these days, um, your job is to see that through. Yep , no matter what your job is to see that through your job, isn't to say. But it's too difficult for it's too difficult for your [00:28:00] job.

[00:28:00] Isn't to pass that your job is to pursue that with everything you've got. 

[00:28:08] Sharon: [00:28:08] Yup. Yup. I love that. I can you share with our viewers plays Michael from the E-Myth a little bit about this fatal assumption, the assumption that if we understand the technical work, that somehow we'll have a business model, can you share this fatal assumption, which I really think is the entrepreneurial seizure that you talk so beautifully about.

[00:28:28] Can you introduce our viewers to your thinking around that? 

[00:28:32] Michael: [00:28:32] Well, the fatal assumption is that if I can do what I've set out to do, then it will liberate me to do more. Um, and it's just not true. Um, I had this great [00:29:00] conversation with a wonderful partner of mine and there is a. Process that is called for it to awaken the entrepreneur within that requires one to think turnkey, if one is ever to do turnkey and until one does turnkey, one will never become turn key.

[00:29:40] Yeah. So it's a process. One has to engage in that is transformational. I've said to Mark saying it to you. I'll say it to the world that the word is transformation. [00:30:00] Transformation is the key transformation means. To go beyond what I know to be true, discover what I will never know how to do until I've passed through that window of

[00:30:29] transformation. Okay. Um, transformation is what occurs and it occurs to a degree that is in some sense of the word, um, terrifying. That's why most don't it's terrifying because what we're really asking people to do is to become [00:31:00] who they aren't, not who they are, who they, aren't not who they are. When I talk about a blank piece of paper and beginner's mind to become who you aren't rather than who you are.

[00:31:20] And there's no experience that will enable one to grow comfortable with the possibility of becoming who I'm not, who I'm not is everything that's waiting in. The wings speaking. In a strange language,

[00:31:50] somebody who is caught up in who I am,

[00:31:58] tragically [00:32:00] consumed by who I 

[00:32:01] Sharon: [00:32:01] am. And by what I do by what I do is by what's in front of us, not what's who 

[00:32:09] Michael: [00:32:09] I am is what I do. What I do was, yeah, I am. That's why I say until I,

[00:32:18] until I truly understand it, turn key. I will never become turnkey. And until I become turn key, I'll never truly understand the transformation that occurs in that. Not glib moment. Yeah. Now I don't know whether that makes sense to anybody we're talking to right now. 

[00:32:53] Sharon: [00:32:53] I'm going to give you an example of it now.

[00:32:55] So I remember our conversation. So we had two conversations that day. There [00:33:00] was the conversation where it was the narcissistic seizure that you slapped me for. That was fantastic. And then we went into a smaller room cause I bought a ticket to your very elite room and it was, I always get into the smallest rooms wherever I can, Michael, where the biggest investment is going to be the smallest room, which means the most access Michael, there were.

[00:33:18] 1520 people in that room. And not one person asked you a question. I was the only person who asked you a question. It blew my mind. So I had this whole hour of you mentoring me in front of 20 other people. I'll take it any day of the week. It was fantastic. So we discussed when we're about to share with you.

[00:33:37] I, what I did to build this business and it's turned over hundreds of millions of dollars is the following. I started out with the E-Myth. This is a true story guys. I started out with this book and Michael's advice, which I'm happy to share right now. It's basically the E-Myth. And I was a technician knowing I was a technician with very little skill [00:34:00] in anything I needed.

[00:34:02] I set out, in the E-Myth the skills I needed in advance. So ahead of me, Michael, I had a blueprint of all the categories of skills I would need. To follow your message. And they were all empty. None of them had anything written in them. I didn't know how to do any of it. So, business skills, marketing skills, sales skills, leadership skills, delegation, project management, skills, performance management skills, finance skills, seven categories were blank.

[00:34:33] And I didn't even have coaching skills. So, I had this blank. So, they want, I did was I began filling in where I was. So, I started getting some coaching skills and developing speaking skills. As I did that, I began documenting what worked. That was my first move towards replacing me. So, every step I took that worked with a client and was really successful and quote on, because I was very, very successful coach.

[00:34:59] I [00:35:00] documented, as I documented it, I put it into a system. I was creating my first client fulfillment system. Didn't have the language for this, but that's what I was doing. This is for anybody listening, it's not just coaches, its consultants, practitioners, justas anybody who thinks they are stuck in the, doing the, doing the doing it.

[00:35:19] Isn't true. So I began documenting it. Then I began looking for patents in the system, Michael. So I knew it'd be a progressive turnkey system that someone else could walk through. Then I began having little groups. Exactly. As you did testing and asking them, what is it you want? What is it you need? How is this going to work for you?

[00:35:40] What's your greatest fear? What's your greatest concern. What's keeping you awake at night. And I began building that into the system. Then I had my first training where I charged for it and I started revealing it and I got more feedback. And as I did that, I began building the skills in the other seven areas.

[00:35:58] I went from zero to a [00:36:00] million dollars profit in two years. In my fourth year, I made $4 million following a 300 page book and one hour of your advice. So that's somebody who had no coaching skills when they began, I had to learn all of this and at the end of that, so at the 12 year mark, I had an entire vision for myself and we get to talk about personal transformation.

[00:36:24] In a moment, I had a vision for myself. Michael is one of the things you said to me was, it's not a business transformation. It's a personal transformation. I had no idea what you meant, but I went away and thought about it. So what is the personal transformation I need? I need to grow into the person who can handle this because today this person can't handle any of that.

[00:36:44] I can't handle. Having a team. I couldn't handle the finances at that level. So I had to grow personally to keep up with what I expected to be my legacy in my business. And I had a 12 year plan to replace myself. And on the [00:37:00] 12th year I walked out of my business and I'd replaced myself. And now haven't worked in this business.

[00:37:05] That's doing better without me in the last eight and a half years, simply by following all of these steps. So I am the biggest advocate that this is doable for us. 

[00:37:17] Michael: [00:37:17] So you've just described the evolution of an enterprise, a company of one to a company of 1000. You've just described beyond the E-Myth the evolution of an enterprise from a company of one to a company of 1000.

[00:37:32] You literally did it. Yup. Yup. By step by step, 

[00:37:37] Sharon: [00:37:37] by step, by step by step. 

[00:37:39] Michael: [00:37:39] Yep. Exactly. As I defined it, In that book that you bought for $12. So hear me, 

[00:37:51] Sharon: [00:37:51] I paid $500 for that hour with you.

[00:37:57] Michael: [00:37:57] You spent for that hour with me, [00:38:00] but we never spent any more time after that. You took it. You got it. You did it. You took it. You got it. You did it. I want to say to you how extraordinary. That is how extraordinary that is and what a gift that is to every single human being you work with and your company's work with since and what a gift that's going to be when you actually go beyond that too, because while you've arrived at a space and a place that very few people will ever arrive at, you're still on your way.

[00:38:47] Sharon: [00:38:47] Yes, 

[00:38:49] Michael: [00:38:49] you are still on your way. Yeah, and that's gotta be immensely 

[00:38:56] Sharon: [00:38:56] exciting to you. It's wonderful. [00:39:00] Rereading your books makes me realize the gaps that we have, that we haven't taken care of everything. So we're doing what you did recently. We're going back and relooking and redefining how this needs to be based on your message.

[00:39:13] So my husband and I J JP and I we've spent the last three days discussing your books. We've both been devouring them again and asking ourselves questions about our businesses based on, we just were Gerber-ing everything. Just so you know, the, every business we have, I don't know how many we own. We're Gerber-ing all our businesses right now, that's become part of our new policy in the company.

[00:39:37] Michael: [00:39:37] I love it. I absolutely love it. 

[00:39:41] Sharon: [00:39:41] So let's go right back to a very basic step. There are three levels of thinking the way. Michael sees things. So there's the technician, the doing the, doing the doing there's the manager who is meant to monitor, manage and measure the systems that make the, doing the, doing the doing possible.

[00:39:58] And then the [00:40:00] entrepreneur who has even stepped beyond that and is leading and inspiring the manager to manage the systems and to bring the vision to life. What do you see is preventing people moving from technician? Let's just get them to manager. Let's just get them to that first step. What do you think the block is?

[00:40:20] Or what's the biggest challenge you see that we can help them with? Well, 

[00:40:24] Michael: [00:40:24] the biggest challenge is actually expecting them to, okay, so hear me. The reason they don't is because we don't expect them to. So in most organizations, there is very little expectation of the evolution. Of the enterprise, Eric, we have a technician, who's doing it, doing it, doing it, doing it.

[00:40:50] They're either bad at it. They're mediocre at it, or they're good at it. And a handful of very, very small handful are expert at it. [00:41:00] What Ben, nobody wishes to do is to take the expert at it. And move them on to become a manager of that, because we don't want to lose the results they produce as an expert at that.

[00:41:16] So the thing that's missing in the organization is literally the expectation that everyone moves, 

[00:41:23] Sharon: [00:41:23] that you're really shortsighted, 

[00:41:25] Michael: [00:41:25] everyone moves, and that means up or out 

[00:41:32] Sharon: [00:41:32] up or out. Yep. Or across I've had people in my company who decided they're not going to ever be an expert in that thing. And they've go found another thing in our company where they can bring their passion to lighter.

[00:41:43] We can be. Yeah. 

[00:41:44] Michael: [00:41:44] But you understand, you asked the question, so what what's missing and what's missing is the expectation that everyone moves 

[00:41:56] Sharon: [00:41:56] in their own business. What's missing for them. Why, [00:42:00] why does a coach just stay 

[00:42:03] Michael: [00:42:03] Included, that is, it's never been a mindset that effectively says I'm only going to do this until this occurs.

[00:42:16] I'm here to make that occur. In short, I'm not here to make this occur continuously. The system is here to do that. I'm here to move beyond that work, to grow that work to the point that that work can work an exponentially greater degree than it's capable of doing right now. I'm here to grow my enterprise.

[00:42:44] I'm here to grow the company. From a company of one to a company of 1000. So there is not that there. And if that's not there, it doesn't happen. You understand it, it has to, it has to live in the [00:43:00] mind and heart and soul of the individual we're speaking to. So how does that occur? Yeah, that has to occur through the interface that individual has with a leader.

[00:43:18] So there has to be expectation that everybody moves. Everybody moves. Yeah. His expectation is that most people don't in short that if I can find somebody who's really good at this, I want to keep them doing this because. Not doing this means they're going to be ineffective at doing that. Yes. So the expectation is an inhibitor.

[00:43:55] Sharon: [00:43:55] I think this is same for business owners, all for technicians who are in their own [00:44:00] businesses. They don't have that expectation of themselves. Even though they hear the message there.  I come across a lot of people who can't envision how they would move out of selling their time for money too.

[00:44:14] They don't know what to work on when I say work on your business. And even when we explain the steps, which are all available, they still seem to have this gap that that can happen for themselves. 

[00:44:26] Michael: [00:44:26] Well, of course it's. Yes, but yes, but yes, but as you heard it, you know, it, you recognize it. And it's right there in the way of anything magical happening.

[00:44:39] Um, there is no magic possible when the, the thinking about it is so steroid sterility of that position, one takes that is so inhibiting. Yeah. [00:45:00] So that's why very, very simple. That's why so transform that. And you suddenly find yourself in a new world. 

[00:45:08] Sharon: [00:45:08] One of the things you talk about beautifully and passionately about Michael is none of this is for business.

[00:45:13] All of this is for life and that this is a personal transcending journey to get there. You definitely think very, big picture. I love the way you think the big picture you see that if this mind isn't operating at that level, none of this doing. The way we want to change, it can happen. You speak about transformation and transcending that we need to work on our lives.

[00:45:39] If we expect our business to transcend as well. Can you speak to that a little bit? I love when you speak about that, because I do believe my business is there to support the life I want to have it isn't that my life is my business. 

[00:45:54] Michael: [00:45:54] I had a wonderful conversation, a continuing conversation in, [00:46:00] with a small group participating in what we call Radical U.

[00:46:04]  Radical You is our new school, for awakening the entrepreneur within ordinary people. And, I created a small group as a test of students who were going through the normal curriculum of Radical You. So they can get some experience of feedback in the conversation that's awakened in each of these weekly classes.

[00:46:41] And this particular conversation arose within a lovely gentleman from Israel who happens to be a real estate agent, independent agent. And I introduced him to my [00:47:00] co-author of the E-Myth real estate agent. And he said to me, a few meetings back. He said, when he met him, he simply took it for granted that the guy knew something that he would be best.

[00:47:25] Committed to learn, but he never truly appreciated the profound, profound impact that it could have on him. He said, I feel so ashamed that I didn't value the profound life force that just meeting that man would bring to me. [00:48:00] Yeah. And he said, it just struck me one moment. It was like this own, my God.

[00:48:10] He's talking about my life. Yeah. He's not talking about real estate. He's talking about my life. He continued to say that. And all of the experiences he's shared in this group, I have about 23 students in this group. They all come, we all come together every other week. As he's sharing this, he is sharing this with tears, and this is a man in his early fifties.

[00:48:49] He's describing the profound meaning of this to his life, to his [00:49:00] relationship, with his children, to his relationship, with his wife, to his relationship, with his clients, to his relationship, with his work. And he's describing this. With such passion that is so far beyond

[00:49:24] income so far beyond. 

[00:49:28] Sharon: [00:49:28] Yes.

[00:49:33] Michael: [00:49:33] Okay. It says though, when you say, how could I possibly have been alive in this work without what he shared with me? I felt so ashamed. He said today

[00:49:55] too. So missed the point. Hmm. [00:50:00] So when we speak about that, It's far beyond any language we can bring to the task. 

[00:50:13] Sharon: [00:50:13] Yes. Yes. I love that 

[00:50:15] Michael: [00:50:15] life, Michael. It's my life. My God. It's my life. You're speaking about not my job. 

[00:50:30] Sharon: [00:50:30] Yup. How I view me? Who am I? And I'm not the task in front of me. I just not, I'm the legacy.

[00:50:39] I'm the vision. I'm what I'm. If I don't inspire me, I'm not doing it right. I've gotta be my inspiration. That's what it is to me, Michael, 

[00:50:50] Michael: [00:50:50] if I don't rise to this occasion, To experience the [00:51:00] eloquence of it. I've missed everything. 

[00:51:05] Sharon: [00:51:05] Yeah. And it's worth saying for anybody who's viewing this or listening to this and not getting it it's worth pursuing until you get it.

[00:51:14] Just start with the E-Myth Revisited or go to Radical U.com and just start somewhere with exposing yourself to this type of thinking. That's what I did, Michael. It was very foreign to me. I'd been raised on sell, sell an hour for 25 bucks. So that sounds just mind blowing. I just trained my brain in your thinking when I began.

[00:51:42] I just trained my brain in how you thought about it. So I read this book many times. I just kept thinking, how would my, how do I need to look about this? So I'm applying the E-Myth. Am I letting myself right now down right now, because I'm not thinking about this in terms of a visionary. And I just kept challenging myself because you give so many ways to [00:52:00] look at it.

[00:52:00] Michael, it's doable for all of us. If we're willing to stop stagnating on yesterday's thinking and challenge what goes in here, it's all about how we think. Everything we build is an idea. That's all it is. It is not the next widget that we're turning out. It's the idea of what that widget represents.

[00:52:19] That's the widget, is a widget to a technician, to a manager and as a system and to a visionary and a later, and our entrepreneur, it is freedom. It’s a widget it a fricking widget. 

[00:52:33] Michael: [00:52:33] Well, and the only thing that you folks who are listening to us ramble on right now need to know is it's all real. You understand, this is not something were concocting out of thin air.

[00:52:50] It's all real. It's real for us. The experience is alive in us. And what we're saying to you, and this is [00:53:00] what's so important about is it can be alive to you as well. And if it isn't. You're paying an enormous price for the loss of it. 

[00:53:14] Sharon: [00:53:14] Yes. 

[00:53:15] Michael: [00:53:15] You just got to do the work. You just got to do the work. Hear me.

[00:53:19] You're just got to do the work. And the beauty of it is it's all spelled out for you. It's a freaking system. 

[00:53:27] Sharon: [00:53:27] It is a system. Let's talk about that. Yes. So one of the things you say is systems enable you to keep your word. I believe, systems equal trust. Consistency in systems, equal trust. And I think that's parallel to the way you look at it.

[00:53:44] If something is chaotic, unreliable, inconsistent, made up on the spot, I don't believe that person's put the thought into it necessary for me to entrust them with my dollar. My dollar goes two way. There is consistency, [00:54:00] stability, replicability, and sustainability. That's what I'm looking for. Then I know there's the potentiality for a relationship in business.

[00:54:09] Michael: [00:54:09] Yes. And that exists right now, um, with everything you do. Every single day and anyone who's sitting here with us right now can put their faith in that because it's worked for ordinary people in extraordinary ways, again and again, and again, and again, it's the system stupid. That's the genius of McDonald's it's the system stupid.

[00:54:37] You're going to have 37,000 stores throughout the world doing one thing one way called our way McDonald's way and produce and replicate that identical experience again and again and again and again and again, which means that you and I can do that. [00:55:00] And hear me if I'm saying, which means you and I can do that.

[00:55:04] Holy moly, what else do I want? But the integrity of that fact, that I've just stated that you and I can do that. We can, we can do that. And we have, and that's, what's so absolutely exciting about that. We have done that and now you 

[00:55:26] Sharon: [00:55:26] can. Yup. That's true. We're going to move into awaking, the entrepreneur within, and I love what you say on balance.

[00:55:34] I you're the first person I've met, who feels the same way I do about balance. I believe FA it's a figment of our imagination. I think it's arbitrary. Eight hours, eight hours, eight hours. You don't go on holiday and do eight hours, eight hours, eight hours. So why in your real life do you do eight, eight and eight.

[00:55:50] If your passions flowing and you've got the vision, you just do the foot. What do you want? You want people who want balance to me, to worried [00:56:00] about, , stability and sameness and stagnation. Is there anything you'd want to speak to about that? Michael? We want to wake up entrepreneurs who are listening.

[00:56:11] Michael: [00:56:11] You hear me hear me? Uh, let, let me speak to it in a prophetic way. That the entrepreneur is actually four distinct people. Yes. A dreamer, a thinker, a storyteller, and a leader. The dreamer has a dream. The thinker has a vision. The storyteller has a purpose and the leader has a mission. So our job, because I'm saying we're going to awaken the true entrepreneur within every human being who says.

[00:56:50] Helped me the job is to discover the dream, the vision, the purpose, and the mission. So that's what we do. What [00:57:00] we call it the dreaming room. We engage an individual, any individual who says, take me there, take me there. If you dare take me there. I want to discover what you mean. When you say the dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller, and the leader.

[00:57:19] I have a dream. I have a vision. I have a purpose. I have a mission. Take me there. And what we do in Radical U is to take an individual through that process.

[00:57:30] Sharon: [00:57:30] That's 

[00:57:30] Michael: [00:57:30] right. That. One can say I have a dream. In my case, my dream was to transform the state of small business worldwide, have a dream to transform the state of small business.

[00:57:44] Worldwide. Every single human being on the planet must have a dream. Because without a dream, it's just what it's just doing it, doing it, doing it. [00:58:00] So I'm saying we're going to awaken the entrepreneur within every human being on the planet by discovering your dream. And I've written it down to transform this state of blank worldwide.

[00:58:14] Yup. What's your blank. And simply the question, what's your blank. That's the great result you're here to produce. That's what a dream is a great result. You're here to produce. The second is your vision and your vision is the form your company is going to take. So in my case way back then in 1977, I had a dream to transform the state of small business worldwide.

[00:58:45] My vision. Was to invent the McDonald's of small business consulting services. Get it McDonald's was that template, the model that [00:59:00] I utilized in order to envision the company I was setting out to create. So I had a great result to produce my dream, to transform the state of small business worldwide and the vision of the company to which I would achieve that result.

[00:59:19] And that was my vision. The next question became, so what's my purpose. The dreamer has a dream. The thinker has a vision. The storyteller has a purpose. My purpose was to make certain that every single small business owner who was attracted to my dream and to my vision could effectively become a successful as a McDonald's franchisee.

[00:59:47] Get, it could become a successful as a McDonald's franchisee. That was my purpose. And finally, my mission. My mission was [01:00:00] very, very straightforward. It was to invent the business development system that would enable me to realize my dream, my vision, and my purpose, the dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller, the leader, get this to the degree you engage in that process.

[01:00:19] Michael, I have a dream. My dream is to transform the state of blank worldwide. I have a vision. My vision is to invent the McDonald's of blank 

[01:00:31] Sharon: [01:00:31] to achieve, 

[01:00:34] Michael: [01:00:34] to fulfill the dream. I have a purpose. My purpose is to attract and et cetera, and so forth in order to be as successful as blank. And my mission was to invent the system that makes all that possible.

[01:00:53] You got it. Turnkey. Yep. Absolutely. Replicable. Yes. [01:01:00] And they're in resides awakening. The entrepreneur within the heart of that book is the process that I've just sketched out and the opportunities that make it possible to literally invent a company that could be scaled just like Ray Kroc scaled.

[01:01:23] McDonald's 

[01:01:25] Sharon: [01:01:25] well, the moment you have a dream, like you just said, the moment, your dreams, that big, you got to lift yourself out of the technician. You got to lift yourself out of the doing and the join because it's so beautiful and magnificent. It's got legacy in there as well. 

[01:01:42] Michael: [01:01:42] Yeah. Or you can say my dream is to make a hundred thousand dollars a year.

[01:01:51] You understand you suddenly have gone from being a dreamer. Yeah. To being something significantly less than [01:02:00] that, because the dream is never about me. The dream is about it. I'm here to transform the state of the world. I'm here to awaken the spirit of imagination. I'm here to become a entrepreneur world-class to a degree I'd never imagined before.

[01:02:26] I'm here to pursue the impossible through a process that makes it possible for me to achieve it. So. The job isn't to satisfy one's small instincts. Yeah. The job is to take them beyond 

[01:02:51] Sharon: [01:02:51] it's not our job. And when we do this is not about solving the immediate problem we have right now, the problem we have right now is not anything to do with the dream.

[01:03:00] [01:02:59] The dream is about others. It's who we're going to serve. It's how are we going to make a difference? It's how are we going to leave a footprint? The problem we've got now, I need cash right now that can't be turned into a dream. Cause that's not that soul about lack and hoarding and hyping and wanting a solution and feeling crisis and urgency dreams are built on way past that.

[01:03:23] So we can set a hundred thousand dollars goal and think that's a dream. It just can't be so 

[01:03:29] Michael: [01:03:29] effectively. We're really saying I'm here to awaken the dreamer within you. Yeah. That's what you were saying to every single person who comes through your doors. We're here to awaken the dreamer within you. We're not here to make a successful coach out of a perspective, entrepreneur.

[01:03:46] We're not here to create a successful doer, um, in, in inhabiting the life of a successful creator. We're here to discover the creator within the [01:04:00] creator, within the Imagineer, within, as Walt Disney called them. And that's who we're here to pursue with everything we've got. Now, hear me. That's gonna scare the living daylights out of you because the one in you who is terrified of not becoming successful in our ordinary life.

[01:04:27] Is going to be absolutely blown out of their socket when I say, yeah, we're not here to do that. Anyway, we're here to step beyond that anyway. And the process through which we do that is very much like the process that a US Navy seal does.

[01:04:53] Sharon: [01:04:53] You don't get a bell, you don't get to tap out. 

[01:04:58] Michael: [01:04:58] Yeah. But I'm not [01:05:00] good as that. I'm not as big as that. I'm not as exceptional as that. No, of course. You're not. None of us are, but we'll be, you will get the degree. You simply say I will. So if you have the determination to become someone you're not. We have the process to which to enable you to do that where there's a will.

[01:05:31] There's a way if you've got, we got the way, if you've got the will, we've got the way that's effectively what you're saying to every single person who comes through your door. If you've got the will, we got the way don't believe us. Let me show you. Let me show you. Let me show you. Let me show you. Mary, did you have the will, Mary Johnny?

[01:05:53] Did you have the will? Jodi, did you have the will Jerry? Did you have the will? 

[01:05:59] Sharon: [01:05:59] Yeah, we say to [01:06:00] everybody, we said, everybody bring you and your willingness to give it a go. We will take care of how it unfolds because we get so many people asking before they join. How does it work? How do I fly? What do. If you read them, don't worry about it.

[01:06:17] The, how is all has been taken care of for years, for decades, we've got the, how it's a proven methodology, your ability to apply what works instead of letting your ego take over and thinking you're going to know best. And you want to find your own way. We're going to save you years, absolutely years. If you just follow this methodology versus trying to figure it out for yourself.

[01:06:40] Michael: [01:06:40] Yep. 

[01:06:42] Sharon: [01:06:42] You also talk about comfort versus challenge. 

[01:06:47] Michael: [01:06:47] Oh, I do. 

[01:06:48] Sharon: [01:06:48] You do God. I should put myself in a position where I'm challenged. That is a direct Michael Gerber quote and you had just sneak in awakening when you're 69 years old and you [01:07:00] felt like you'd been asleep up until then. So that was before, beyond the E-Myth terrace chair with us.

[01:07:05] What the second epiphany was please.

[01:07:09] Michael: [01:07:09] Well, well, you understand that my entire life has been challenged Every single thing I've ever done has been a challenge,, because I was never prepared to do it because I didn't know how to do. If I had known how to do what it would have already done it. I didn't know how to do it, but I never allowed that to stop me from pursuing it.

[01:07:37] So the pursuit of it was key. The pursuit of it was key and it revealed itself to me, pursuit of it was key and it revealed itself to me. And in the revelation of it, I changed. So in the revelation of it, I changed. It's [01:08:00] not because I changed it's because it changed me. Hmm, every single one of you have to understand that it's not about you.

[01:08:10] It's not about what you know how to do. It's not about anything you are prepared to do. It's about opening your heart and mind to it, to understand it will work. It's wondrous way on you. When you make yourself available, it's making yourself available. It's like saying to Sharon, Sharon I'm here, I'm yours.

[01:08:37] Teach me, and then doing what you're being taught to do. And as you do what you're being taught to do, it's going to speak to you. And it's going to say things to you. Nobody's ever said to you before, hear me you're in for a shock [01:09:00] because the world isn't what you think it is. Hmm, the experience. Isn't what you believe it to be.

[01:09:08] The opportunity is nowhere even close to what you imagine. It will be. All of this is an exercise that takes you beyond who you are to discover who you potentially can rise to be speaking to you. Come play with me, come play with me, come play with me. And suddenly you say, Oh my God, how come I never seen that before you follow me?

[01:09:45] It's so extraordinary. And you have this experience over and over and over and over again. I know you do. I know you do because you pursue it. In exactly the same way as that. I have you pursue it with [01:10:00] everything you've got. And when you don't, you pay the price for not having pursued it with everything you've got, then something happens, something happens, it's a revelation.

[01:10:13] And that revelation is an exquisite and you can then turn to every single person around you and say, Oh my God, you'll never believe what just happened. Welcome. And there 

[01:10:26] Sharon: [01:10:26] it is, Michael, I'm going to ask you this question. You talk about legacy a lot, and I believe we're here to inspire ourselves. How are you going towards fulfilling what you believe your legacy potentially could be?

[01:10:43] Michael: [01:10:43] Well, what can I say? We already have every human being has a legacy. Um, it's right there right now. Um, you can't avoid it. You can't ignore it. Um, every [01:11:00] single one of us has a legacy and that legacy is either failure, success beyond success, beyond belief. Um, it's in so many different ways and shapes and forms, but every one of us have a legacy.

[01:11:15] Um, mine is what I ultimately end up having done. And I don't know yet what that is. I 

[01:11:29] Sharon: [01:11:29] love it. 

[01:11:30] Michael: [01:11:30] You understand? I have absolutely no idea yet actually is. Do you realize that just in this conversation, my legacy could have been altered to a degree beyond anything I ever imagined it's possible to become.

[01:11:51] That's how I envisioned in view my life. I love that every single day is [01:12:00] contributing to my legacy and I have no idea, nah, everything that I've done with all the people that I've moved with, ever, all the moving and shaking and making and breaking all of that step one would have to say, well, Gerber, you certainly certainly must have a clearer idea about your legacy than most of us.

[01:12:27] And I'd say not. 

[01:12:31] Sharon: [01:12:31] I love it. 

[01:12:34] Michael: [01:12:34] I know the day I done the day, there will be one. Yeah. I just don't know what it is. And it's as exciting to me right here. Right now at this moment. To think about that as it was the very first day I began on this band. 

[01:12:59] Sharon: [01:12:59] Yeah. [01:13:00] Just wonderful. I am driven a lot by thinking about when I'm way too old to do anything about it.

[01:13:11] I want to make sure I look back and I did it, whatever that brave thing is, whatever that inspiring thing is when it's too late, I don't want to be left with all those moments that I could have embraced. And I turned away for ease or comfort. That's what challenge means to me to do the thing that's going to lift me.

[01:13:31] So when I, in that moment, when I take my last breath and I made the person, I could have been it's may the gap isn't there. That's what drives me, Michael, that's me being my fullest truest self in my last breath. The could of been is who I am. I want that to be the same thing. 

[01:13:50] Michael: [01:13:50] I got it. And God bless. And may your wish your will come to realization.

[01:14:00] [01:14:00] But you have no idea what that's going to look like. Absolutely none. Thank God. 

[01:14:09] Sharon: [01:14:09] Yes. 

[01:14:10] Michael: [01:14:10] Thank God you have absolutely no idea what that's going to look like. It's being born at this very moment. 

[01:14:17] Sharon: [01:14:17] It is 

[01:14:17] Michael: [01:14:17] at this very moment. It's being born so 

[01:14:25] Sharon: [01:14:25] wonderful. You're a wonderful human being, your energy and your sparkle and your generosity.

[01:14:34] Is it something you've cultivated or is it just how you came out? So it 

[01:14:40] Michael: [01:14:40] just showed up. So what can I get? And it's been a delight. Thank you for having me here. Um, thank you for the conversation. Thank you for the honor of your pursuit of the impossible, utilizing my work to the degree that you have and going beyond my work [01:15:00] to touch the lives of thousands upon thousands, upon thousands of people, may you be blessed, um, in the most, absolutely phenomenal way possible for what you've done and what you're about to do.

[01:15:15] I've loved it. 

[01:15:15] Sharon: [01:15:15] Here's the same for you. I loved it as well. Michael, where would you like people to get in touch with you and to discover more of your work? You mentioned radical you, can you share a little bit about where we can find that and what we can expect? 

[01:15:28] Michael: [01:15:28] Just come to Michael E, Gerber.com [email protected].

[01:15:33] And just say, Hey, I heard you speak to Sharon. I just heard you talk about all these wonderful things. And we'd just love to do with love, to do with love to do it. And I know that Sharon will find a way to make it happen. And if she doesn't, I will say 

[01:15:54] Sharon: [01:15:54] exactly right. 

[01:15:56] Michael: [01:15:56] They've got that promise on the table.

[01:15:58] Um, just let's leave [01:16:00] it at that. And we'll find many, many ways to, um, tell your world and world your tilt.

[01:16:14] Sharon: [01:16:14] Thanks so much, Michael. [01:17:00]