0:00

it's worth knowing what's

0:02

, on is

0:05

the atlanta journal constitution?

0:10

previously

0:12

on breakdown we

0:14

were dealing with matters that had no precedent

0:17

and history we , no law books

0:19

to go to to we couldn't find

0:21

anything that gave us any guiding light

0:24

or service a beat and you know to where

0:26

we know what to do any

0:28

cut vote of the history books was not only

0:30

that i didn't have anything from have legal

0:33

have nothing is starkly to build your

0:35

some people feel that might have cost more

0:38

the election and i think seventy six

0:40

so brave was the over

0:43

there spare and it's in a

0:45

possible trial yeah

0:48

the day i knew people historians

0:51

markings are divided

0:53

a question but certainly that's

0:55

the time when it seems

0:58

the more a form

1:00

friends in a recent pregnant with see

1:02

justice for granted

1:04

and lawyers actually

1:07

had the nerve to argue

1:09

that that's correct that he

1:11

would not could ,

1:13

be arrested could not be

1:16

stopped and that he could engage

1:18

in of murderous rampage

1:20

and that no one would have the

1:22

right to and is

1:25

and philosophy this we call that call reductio

1:27

ad absurdum of their positions

1:30

their positions is so absurd

1:32

that anyone can see sad

1:35

can see president should be

1:37

so above the law that he has

1:39

right to to start shooting people upset

1:41

savage

1:42

welcome back the season nine of breakdown

1:45

the podcast from the atlanta journal constitution

1:47

that takes you inside george's most important

1:49

cases until rank and the ha

1:51

sees legal affairs reporter

1:53

and senior reporter to mar hallerman

1:56

in episode seven you're going to hear

1:58

from georgia secretaries

1:59

bread rations and his deputy

2:02

gave sterling

2:03

they reflect on what happened during the twenty

2:06

twenty presidential election it's

2:08

aftermath and the ongoing investigation

2:10

and we explain the surprise

2:12

court ruling the person the fulton county

2:14

district attorney's office will no longer

2:16

be able to investigate this

2:19

is breakdown the trump grand jury

2:21

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impact

3:59

the impetus

3:59

behind a special purpose grand jury investigation

4:02

of donald trump and his allies is a former

4:04

presidents january second two thousand

4:07

and twenty one phone call with secretary

4:09

raf unspoken that's when the president

4:11

claimed he had one georgia by hundreds

4:13

of thousands bugs not lost

4:15

it by eleven thousand seven hundred seventy

4:17

nine votes trump says he could

4:20

show that thousands of dead people in fallon

4:22

both he says this about a

4:24

poll worker at state farm arena in atlanta, on

4:27

the night of the election process,

4:34

pay with

4:36

stuff like nobody's ever

4:39

report the she's not

4:41

have not have you stuff develop each each

4:43

ballot went three times they were

4:45

showing his valid know belong

4:48

here to suspected that third time next

4:50

ballot

4:51

that runs burger stands up to trump

4:54

listen to

4:55

what the president has

4:57

said president trump

4:59

the

5:01

we've had several lawsuits and with

5:03

had responded courtroom

5:05

the lawsuit in the contentions

5:07

the

5:09

we don't agree that you have one

5:11

trump at point with ross

5:13

and spark er to find him the votes he needs

5:15

to overturn the election later

5:18

in he insults wrath

5:20

and springer and then threatened him and the secretary

5:22

of state's general counsel ryan germany

5:25

the other find that they are and which

5:27

is totally illegal it's it's it's more

5:29

illegal for you that it is for them because

5:32

know what they did you not reporting as best

5:34

as you know that's a criminal that's

5:37

criminal offense and

5:39

in a you can let that happen that's that's

5:41

a big risks to you and darius

5:44

the a lawyer and that's a big risk

5:45

rothenberg didn't back off not

5:48

one bit held firm

5:51

and the actions taken by him and his deputy

5:53

gave sterling gave sterling weeks following the

5:55

twenty twenty presidential election leave

5:58

them national heroes for democracy the

6:00

eyes of many

6:00

so we were happy when both men agreed

6:03

to sit down for an interview for this episode

6:05

of breakdown in , reference

6:08

burger trounced trump fact jody

6:10

and the republican primary race for secretary

6:13

of state it wasn't ago when

6:15

many republicans wondered if wrath and parker

6:17

would even when the dlc primary or

6:19

at the very least be forced into

6:21

a that reference burger picked

6:23

up fifty two percent of the vote and

6:26

beat ice by twenty points

6:29

so i look at our my primary race

6:31

of the , i got fifty two percent

6:33

of the vote when i look at the start

6:36

i think this i think they are now

6:38

still forty percent that weren't convinced

6:41

about everything's so i still need got

6:43

talked us more people i mean i get all

6:45

the spokes to support me my

6:47

job to after just feel like

6:49

johnny appleseed i got my the

6:52

truth and so that's what i'm doing is

6:54

planting seeds the truth here's exactly

6:56

what happened and then i take their questions

6:58

animal no duck from any their questions

7:00

about the tea party between republican

7:02

party means you're all talk to anyone

7:05

that has questions the only

7:07

people want to make sure they

7:09

can sort it out in their own mind and the

7:11

best thing to do is you like

7:14

i said

7:16

earlier quantum meetings one minute

7:18

how much about to a

7:20

a business or chamber beating i'll

7:23

go to a political party meetings are

7:25

on the proper to speak the people dislike

7:27

am today

7:28

robin burger grew up in pennsylvania

7:30

that move to ontario canada after the

7:32

fourth grade when his dad relocated for

7:34

work burger met his

7:37

wife tricia in their eleventh grade home room

7:39

class and they've been married forty six

7:41

years they've had three sons

7:43

the rapids burgers have also suffered a worst

7:46

nightmare road his son brenton

7:48

battled cancer and addicts him for years

7:51

he also was arrested several times in

7:54

his book integrity counts reference

7:56

burger notes that a judge on the outskirts of

7:58

atlanta when sentence in britain

8:00

ordered him to buy a casket and put it

8:02

in his home as a reminder of

8:04

the deadly consequences of his

8:06

decisions i must say

8:09

i find it hard to believe a judge would actually

8:11

do something like that

8:13

franken died of an overdose of sentinel

8:15

four years ago russians burger

8:17

has said his interest as christian faith

8:19

gave them strength and peace configure

8:22

also says he and his wife had a moto

8:24

in the tumultuous following the twenty

8:27

election the say themselves i've

8:29

been through worse

8:31

that is burger is civil engineer and

8:33

built a successful business after moving

8:35

to georgia more than thirty years ago it

8:37

design supplies and installs

8:39

post tense and steel in

8:42

his son kyle is now president of different

8:45

that burger serve two years on the johns

8:47

creek city council and four years

8:49

the legislature before running for secretary

8:51

of state in twenty the

8:53

had to win both the glp primary and

8:55

general election in run off

8:58

in two thousand and sixteen reference burger

9:01

trump for president before he was the front

9:03

runner intern trump

9:05

indoors reference burger two years later

9:08

the tweet

9:09

read rapids burger will be a fantastic

9:11

secretary of state for georgia

9:13

that all changed in the weeks after the

9:15

twenty twenty presidential election

9:18

i understand the secretary of state

9:20

who are really

9:22

he's an enemy of the people's

9:25

the secretary state and

9:27

whether his republican or not

9:29

we are draft and sprecher he kept

9:31

his cool in the face of such attacks

9:33

attacks that led to threats against him

9:36

and his wife

9:37

well as i discussed in my book

9:39

the

9:40

way forward is

9:42

really very simple

9:44

that doesn't mean it's easy but it gets

9:46

back to really civil

9:48

discourse honesty character

9:52

that a touchy to tightness even rate rather

9:54

break it's not was my beloved

9:56

or reagan's or but he talked about kind

9:58

of so we can be

9:59

the server be kind but i think people are looking

10:02

for honesty i think they're

10:04

looking for civil discourse and

10:06

we had these honest discussions but also

10:08

you have to also i believe respected position

10:11

for that anyone homes at anyone

10:13

level in elected office

10:15

in other words for some people that hold

10:18

elected office i believe

10:20

don't comport themselves in

10:23

the manner that you would expect someone that holds

10:25

an artist bf city council where

10:27

i started state house

10:29

secretary of state or other office and

10:31

a liar but also that we respect the office

10:33

that people hold and want to make sure whatever

10:36

have conversations with people that are blank respectfully

10:38

better still many who the election was

10:40

stolen

10:41

polls conducted in february and july

10:44

thousand and twenty one found that some two

10:46

thirds of republican respondents believed

10:48

that joe was not legitimately

10:50

elected and an ha see survey

10:53

conducted in january that

10:55

three quarters of georgia republicans

10:57

believe there was widespread fraud and the

10:59

two thousand and twenty elections so

11:01

we've of i got dot people also

11:04

talk to talk about the election

11:06

twenty twenty the fall watch

11:08

those are still lot of misinformation this information

11:11

that is sure the facts and i take

11:14

the best thing is after something that's

11:16

still going of someone's mind as your

11:18

question so i can answer

11:20

it's that few months ago people

11:22

were still asking about state farm oh

11:24

that's where that allegation that the ballots

11:26

were being stuffed well we've now

11:29

you know have had many

11:31

town fraternities and and lot of information

11:33

out there that first we looked at it

11:35

the f b i looked at gbr at it and

11:38

if you don't trust any of those resources president

11:41

can pick someone to look at that himself

11:44

and that was body krispies who came

11:46

up from savannah as the us attorney the southern

11:48

districts became acting us attorney the

11:50

north a distance he looked at that specifically

11:53

and he dismissed it but obviously

11:55

when it gets up your of eating cable news

11:57

networks than it does it ever bring

11:59

take him back off they just

12:02

move on to something else

12:03

for the interview wrath and burger made

12:05

it clear that he no longer wanted to talk about

12:08

his phone call with trump he said

12:10

it speaks for itself

12:12

that is burger gave thoughts about what transpired

12:14

during that call in his book integrity counts

12:17

and we went into great detail about that

12:19

and episode one

12:21

that emperor was the first person to testify

12:23

before the special purpose grand jury

12:25

pose interesting how i won't

12:27

share much because it is are behind closed

12:31

but it's not just the prosecutors

12:33

ask questions the people are our

12:36

younger citizens that are part of the grand

12:38

jury pool can ask questions to and

12:40

so that to stop you

12:42

know it's

12:43

the people are formation so that's

12:47

my first time doing that and you

12:49

know hopefully they'll be my last time but

12:52

you never know i don't think we'll have another election

12:55

like we didn't twenty twenty joe

12:57

obviously day one but we

12:59

says we

13:01

apply with any your lawful

13:03

subpoenas every show up on were subpoenaed

13:06

of course the grand jury wanted to know about

13:08

the trump phone call i would think that was some

13:11

awesome a major focus of oh

13:14

so what was there so

13:16

beware some questions about other matters

13:19

but is really focused in on field from

13:21

com butcher as as

13:23

everyone

13:24

our that's out there in the public space

13:26

you can google the phone calls you can

13:28

listen to it never can draw their close

13:30

to of sediments nutshell

13:33

my book explains all that but

13:36

i'll sometimes you want just curious

13:38

ask questions directly so that

13:40

was the purpose that i assume good sterling

13:42

has been involved in republican politics

13:45

since he began volunteering as a teenager

13:47

and ninety ninety he ran for a seat

13:49

in the state house lost in the g o p

13:51

primary in two thousand and eleven

13:54

he won a seat on the sandy springs city council

13:57

in two thousand and seventeen he ran for

13:59

a seat on the phone the county commission

14:01

the last

14:02

after election day and twenty twenty sterling

14:04

became the face of secretary of state's office

14:07

despite his decidedly bureaucratic title

14:09

of voting system implementation manager

14:13

the how many news conference as doing

14:15

all he could to make the election results as

14:17

transparent as possible and

14:19

of course he did have one moment that

14:21

resonated nationwide that's

14:23

when a vitriolic attacks lead to people being

14:25

threatened including rations worker and

14:27

his wife

14:29

the president you're

14:31

not condemn these actions or

14:33

senators you've

14:36

not condemn this language already

14:42

you to step up to

14:45

take of leadership

14:51

looks like you mildly lot

14:54

they're investigating there's always a possibility

14:56

i didn't you have the rights to go to the course would

14:58

you do any noise do any to step

15:00

up and say this is stop his

15:02

arm people looking at the tesla about some

15:05

reason to hurt having such

15:07

some as a legit killed appearing

15:09

before the house select committee on june twenty

15:11

first

15:13

sterling explains my last is cool

15:16

there's a news conference had already been scheduled

15:18

for that afternoon shortly after

15:20

he received a phone call from the project manager

15:23

at dominion voting systems

15:25

he was audibly sake

15:27

the rubber first noticed assume would be that

15:29

way she has a massive some mit a grudge was

15:31

naval academy and is very much on the ball

15:33

and the unflappable and

15:35

, informed me about a young contractor

15:38

they who had been receiving threats

15:41

from us a video posted by some to

15:43

and on supporters

15:44

sterling says this was just one more thing

15:47

they were having to deal with

15:48

the he says he pulled up his twitter feed and family

15:51

young man's name

15:51

sit at his name the

15:53

committed treason may god have

15:56

mercy on your soul with a slowly twisting

15:59

gifts of a new

16:01

an for lack of a better word i lost

16:03

i just got irate sterling

16:06

says he told his boss he thought he needed

16:08

to say something if the news conference though

16:10

she tells rapids burger who gives is

16:12

okay

16:13

what me to do what i

16:17

did i lost my temper it

16:20

it seemed unnecessary at the time because it

16:22

was just getting morrison's i don't i

16:24

cannot tell you why that particular one was the one that put

16:26

me over the edge but it it rep

16:28

adam of california has

16:30

this question as you may

16:32

this please the president did donald

16:34

trump urges supporters to use

16:37

of violence that's my knowledge

16:39

sterling also appeared before the fulton

16:41

county special purpose grand jury

16:45

it wasn't real so much different earlier same

16:48

with same darn thing over

16:50

and over again for for a month i

16:52

mean

16:53

it's really easy to do we are telling us are you

16:55

not remember too much assess this is there

16:59

you can like secretary out and three

17:01

of the level of amount

17:04

engagement from the yeah rangers

17:07

i was in their seventeen grand jurors now as they

17:09

ethic ten of them questions

17:11

the

17:13

it was it was a very engage them are

17:15

very and you can tell them you're working

17:17

with the lawyers for a walk near cutting off

17:19

and doing stuff

17:20

and

17:21

they have a new each other

17:24

my i was there for what my normal

17:27

games basically

17:28

the reality of these things and and the secretary

17:31

was kind of refer to the summer

17:33

rumors anything to spelling your allows

17:36

there lies the hatcheries there

17:38

this information was is done for bad reasons

17:41

they're misinformation for political reasons

17:43

it again from what the left and

17:45

right i think will surprise us most much when you twenty

17:48

beauty gearing up for the left declined saw lox

17:51

you can also get whiplash who

17:53

think when the president lost by

17:55

new eleven thousand seven hundred simply madness

17:58

that i remember that number for it

17:59

the

18:01

though

18:02

justifying was for i was in there for like

18:04

three hours

18:07

in

18:08

it was interesting because you know we went over videotapes

18:10

not she knows things asked about and state

18:12

farm is stolen normal thing love my

18:15

job is how to explain ago interesting

18:18

you know the couple people them strike questions about

18:20

soul auction and they say more about

18:22

this is what about this too long to make a

18:24

single softball hoping

18:27

to secretaries point the

18:29

grand jurors will be a wanted

18:32

first hand accounts not just stop the right we

18:35

need to have that for them in

18:38

effect years and we will respond to lawful spanish

18:40

jessica different january six

18:43

wow

18:44

i don't know the outcome of a sterling

18:47

than makes this observation in

18:49

it's good business

18:51

un secretary ran for the job

18:54

really boring job you know it must i was a bone

18:56

susan station manager as bureaucratic

18:58

finally come up with know when she

19:01

never with you know

19:03

when i find interesting about all those

19:06

russian separatists people

19:09

look at hand the hero

19:11

of simple his job of telling the truth is

19:13

that is such a hell of a think the see

19:17

what that same type of thing is going on

19:19

when a man stands there and it's way follow

19:22

the law also atsushi then

19:25

also hero of great i'm i'm glad

19:27

you didn't recognize will be recognized for doing

19:30

i think that's i may ask me when

19:32

did ya the side be the right thing offsets us

19:34

we didn't have a meeting with his do it

19:38

this is breakdown from the atlanta

19:40

journal constitution

19:42

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19:44

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order is the nation's political battle

20:09

around without a fight we never saw

20:11

before the mockery

20:12

the only works when we worked for

20:14

in see informed during a historic election

20:17

with politically georgia from the atlanta journal

20:19

the constitution out of that we've ever covered

20:21

election quite like this

20:22

political insiders greg blue scene and

20:24

patricia murphy have sources experience

20:27

and analysis no one else has

20:29

get a really good feel on the ground

20:32

for what politics georgia looks

20:34

like and feels like politically georgia

20:36

listen at a d c dot com slash politics

20:38

or wherever you get your podcasts

20:44

interviews rations burger criticize

20:46

district attorney funny well as suggesting

20:49

she was slow walking the investigation

20:51

to make an impression on this year's elections

20:54

the secretary was more circumspect

20:56

when we asked him about that remember

20:59

he is a general election has his sights you

21:01

facing off against democratic state rep

21:03

be when who also testified

21:05

before the special grand jury

21:07

what's a lawful process and would

21:10

just wait and see where it all goes we

21:12

handed everything over that wow we've

21:14

been requested and soak the think

21:16

that part of face dot

21:18

everything

21:20

what you're looking at now has nothing to far

21:22

off has to do with other people

21:25

and so that's really what their focuses

21:28

of course secretary is referring

21:30

the slate of fake electors and the subpoenas

21:32

to members of trump's inner

21:34

robin burger was also question about the

21:37

two phone calls that sen lindsey graham

21:39

south carolina place to his office

21:42

prior interview on cnn resins

21:44

berger said this is what graham wanted to

21:46

know

21:47

the answer to bells could be matched back

21:49

to the voters

21:51

the day i have i got a sense it's

21:53

implied that just send you could throw

21:55

those out of with any

21:57

we will look at the counties with the highest

21:59

the

21:59

frequent pair of still

22:02

signatures so that's that's

22:04

you person that are gods were just

22:06

an implication that jokes look

22:08

hard and see how many bout you could throw out

22:11

the i'm denies that saying he did not

22:13

ask rapids burger to do anything

22:15

inappropriate so since the

22:17

phone call with trump was recorded

22:20

we naturally asked whether the

22:22

phone calls with graham were recorded

22:24

yeah you would a person the eightieth

22:27

first now

22:28

now

22:29

we hate to be the eightieth suit even

22:31

the eighth person to ask a question

22:34

but i it's safe to say stand by what

22:36

you've you've said about their phone

22:38

call with graham

22:40

the us

22:41

we are sterling about how his office

22:43

decided to push back against the misinformation

22:45

that came flooding in after the twenty twenty

22:48

presidential election

22:50

the never change or patch day long

22:52

i remember

22:54

that it will happen we were

22:56

at all luxury warming

22:58

and

23:00

once we need a beating lot

23:02

lot smarter than watching days flight

23:05

back into office on wednesday

23:08

afternoon when i

23:10

knew he plans i

23:12

get the map on getting for forty years of

23:14

friends like alimony in about three o'clock almost

23:16

like a presence in louisiana at some point

23:19

what's off by one thousand

23:22

that our our plans will beginning was

23:24

just fifty the facts

23:26

over network

23:28

in will be gotta remember his

23:31

they i knew the present one

23:33

woman and mostly knowledgeable

23:36

people in both campaigns noom

23:38

of the outcome was going to be able

23:41

to terrify get so close to start

23:43

attacking the system on while the so

23:45

bidens team and from st he

23:48

didn't say much the worst

23:50

rear for days what it's not public saturday

23:53

it figured out again loss for sure

23:56

sterling them recalls when george's to

23:59

senators day purdue and kelly leffler

24:01

called unwrapped and burger to resign

24:04

even know they had no evidence he had done anything

24:06

wrong

24:07

in been on the night

24:10

november

24:12

the way before the day and for

24:15

and

24:16

the right amount from the left on happened

24:18

to me statement you

24:21

center on powerful the secretary theresa where

24:24

we texted back within the for ha ha funny they're

24:27

like nails getting out bible and

24:30

then you kinda kinda get a job very fast

24:32

the smart made at that point the novel

24:34

signal gets lost on and his wife russia

24:37

abroad twice or the sex i guess that's a her

24:39

phone that will kick off all phrase

24:42

we want you know allowed you those things are full

24:45

of our goal

24:47

need

24:48

robin burger had this to

24:50

say about his response to what purdue

24:52

unless they're dead number until

24:54

they called for his resignation they were viewed

24:56

as political allies

24:58

as they say pressure reveals

25:01

character and , that's

25:03

really what have revealed the post election

25:06

and so i leaned into

25:08

not intended to the law law

25:11

i wanted to make sure make every

25:13

allegation was every out to

25:16

the like to come back to the people are jordan said

25:18

these are the results that's

25:20

why travel all the state that's why access

25:22

to them what with other rotary and

25:25

meeting and bipartisan

25:26

despite all of that sterling

25:29

says he still for senators produ

25:31

and leffler in their fails run off election

25:33

be a any i'm republic i was were pulling

25:36

the what are we can all be a problem after

25:38

trump is not

25:39

everything is my party and how

25:41

many people fighting for we asked him how it

25:43

feels to hear trump continuing to

25:45

make his claims the election was stolen

25:48

on some level

25:50

i think if you what not to a lot attack against

25:52

pats thank you so convinced

25:55

himself that this is for with no way

25:57

he could have off this is not possible

26:01

the at the end of the day is a similar what

26:03

he is an outsized care butcher

26:05

to me being on top that so his

26:08

his flaws are more magnified and

26:10

his family interact with small

26:12

fun yeah the

26:14

age fifteen years on reality television

26:16

the hone all the skills

26:18

the outlaws everything

26:20

and

26:21

incentives to do damage mean

26:24

we gotta be a great year for republicans

26:27

he would just shut the hell because

26:30

the can't be about him of nice to be about

26:32

real thing like a lot of inflation

26:34

yeah right

26:36

the uk

26:37

yeah a the labor

26:39

shortage and gas shortage

26:41

of all these real issues that me but

26:43

at day to day every time to use i'm talking

26:46

about stuff it takes

26:48

the service away the failures

26:51

of have some of these institutions or remember

26:53

the difficulties people face what

26:56

more frustrating than anything the get it

26:58

every patient i don't like losing

27:01

at the house select committee hearing snippets

27:03

of trump's phone call or played reference

27:06

burger sits and listens and then he asked

27:08

to respond to what trump has said the

27:10

other thing that people so

27:13

dead people voted

27:15

i think care the the number

27:17

isn't the brought a close to five thousand

27:19

people

27:20

they went to well obituaries

27:23

they went to are all sorts of benefits

27:25

to come up with it as your number

27:27

at a minimum is close to about five

27:29

thousand voters

27:31

no it's not accurate and actually

27:33

in their lawsuit stay alleged ten thousand three

27:35

hundred fifty dead people are

27:37

we felt to the people when i wrote my letter

27:40

to congress that stated said you were and

27:42

subsequent to that without to more one

27:45

two three four people not four thousand

27:47

but just total for not ten thousand

27:49

not by thousand

27:50

and burger is also asked why he didn't

27:52

just quit and walk away

27:54

because i knew that we had follow the law were followed

27:56

the constitution i think

27:58

sometimes moments car you to up

28:01

and i just take the shots

28:03

you're doing you're and that's all we

28:05

did though it has followed

28:07

along with all the constitution and

28:10

, the end of day president trump came up short

28:13

i had to be faithful to the constitution and

28:16

as resource and have to do we

28:18

asked reference burger about his experience

28:20

testifying before congress on national

28:22

television

28:24

the show

28:25

the imposing obviously

28:28

the room was just

28:30

crammed with

28:32

probably all reporters are still

28:34

not does people sitting in the back there

28:36

are there must've been one hundred photographer says

28:39

game mentioned and then then

28:41

a team but my biggest take

28:43

the takeaway about all that

28:45

it does many people have said no

28:49

bread thank you you're you say democracy

28:51

and almost better like it was just what we

28:53

do here georgia what

28:56

do i came away from that is uses

28:59

majority leader the state house of

29:01

arizona rusty bout you sitting

29:03

next to us

29:04

dot you stood firm in

29:07

, words it was not just one person

29:10

person bother people that stood on

29:12

the mall and on the constitution and

29:15

constitution think that's the biggest take way that

29:17

everyone should really grasped

29:20

break

29:21

there's that

29:22

our nation a strong because it's betty

29:24

people that believe he had

29:26

our constitution they believe in the rule

29:28

of law and that's the strength

29:31

in our country so just you're only some

29:34

up there would be please a better happen

29:36

from time to time but

29:38

as i said what i want my primary

29:41

most people are

29:43

never doubt most americans

29:45

good people and so funded

29:48

and provided with the facts

29:50

people will lean and accept the facts

29:53

and so classy give everyone grateful

29:55

i think that you saw that in many people

29:58

are held positions of effect

29:59

the

30:01

this is a plot stood for

30:04

on the law on the rule of law

30:06

that's a good thing for america and she

30:08

give us all great hall

30:11

the great comfort

30:14

like we said earlier we had big news last

30:17

week a court ruling that very

30:19

likely embarrassed district attorney

30:21

funny willis fulton superior

30:23

court judge robert make bernie who's

30:25

overseeing the special grand jury disqualified

30:28

willis her office from investigating

30:30

state senator byrd jones pretty

30:33

opie nominee for lieutenant governor and

30:35

one of the sixteen alternative republican

30:37

electors who met at the state capital

30:40

in december twenty twenty to cast electoral

30:42

college

30:42

for trump in court filings

30:44

the fulton da's office says jones

30:46

the other fifteen alternative electors

30:49

or targets of the special purpose grand jury

30:51

investigation that means they could

30:53

recommend that they should be indicted as

30:55

soon as jones name became public his

30:58

filed a motion to disqualify willis

31:01

that's because she hosted a june

31:03

fourteenth fundraiser for charlie bailey

31:05

do at the time with an a democratic

31:08

primary runoff getting it out for the

31:10

right to take on jones in november

31:12

on june twenty second mcburney

31:15

over a hearing and express his alarm

31:17

at the of the fundraiser

31:19

the media posts that promoted be event

31:22

includes willis's formal title

31:24

that bernie suggests that is a conflict

31:27

of interest and says this with sitting

31:29

just fifteen feet away

31:31

very very moment to

31:33

realize how

31:35

, horrific trains

31:38

you haven't i believe

31:40

that a com partisan max

31:44

we're trying to maintain congress

31:47

today , is pursuing back

31:50

in a non partisan scholarships

31:53

in his order make bernie rights that willis's

31:56

attorney correctly points out that the

31:58

fundraiser was for bally's

31:59

this will run off race against kwanzaa

32:02

hall but he also makes observation

32:05

quotes that more relevant

32:07

and harmful the integrity of

32:09

the grand jury investigation is that

32:11

the die was already cast on the other

32:14

side of the political divide whoever

32:16

the bailey hall run off with face

32:19

senator jones when

32:20

ah a handful of unaffiliated

32:22

lawyers about this ahead of the hearing

32:25

oh said the conflict was more theoretical

32:28

and predicted that mcburney would rule in

32:30

the fulton da's favor

32:32

that's what made make bernie's final decision

32:34

so surprising right

32:36

quote an investigation

32:38

of this significance garnering the

32:40

public attention at necessarily and

32:43

touching so political nerves in

32:45

our society you're not be

32:47

burdened by legitimate doubts about

32:49

district motives the

32:51

district attorney does not have to be apolitical

32:55

their investigations do the

32:57

bailey fund raiser see sponsored in

33:00

her official capacity makes that impossible

33:02

when it comes to investigating bally's

33:05

direct political opponent any

33:07

decision the district attorney makes about

33:09

senator jones in connection with the grand

33:11

jury investigation is necessarily

33:14

infected

33:16

make bernie's order bars will s and

33:18

the entire fulton da's office from

33:20

considering jones a target the

33:22

penile him or ultimately

33:24

deciding whether he should be charged with a crime

33:27

responsibility will now fall

33:30

to another district attorney's office prosecutors

33:33

can still gather evidence about jones's

33:35

conduct from other witnesses

33:37

they can't mcburney rights quote

33:40

make use of any such evidence to

33:42

develop a case the senator

33:45

ouch you said

33:47

it's now up to the prosecuting attorneys

33:49

council of georgia to a point another da's

33:51

office to step in the group's

33:54

executive director pete scandal atkins

33:56

issues atkins statement soon after make

33:58

bernie's decision scandal

34:00

aca says he hasn't made any decisions

34:02

yet about whether an will be made the

34:05

indicates he isn't in a hurry to the side

34:07

especially because the special purpose grand

34:10

jury cannot issue indictment the

34:12

says quo pending further

34:14

analysis it may be premature to appoint

34:17

a criminal prosecutor at this time

34:19

the added it may be best to

34:21

allow the grand jury to conclude this portion

34:24

of the investigation before appointing

34:26

another prosecutor to come in

34:28

finding another da who'd be willing to pick

34:30

up this hot potato of a case be

34:33

difficult

34:34

well is your t

34:36

a volunteer

34:39

right

34:39

that that lana criminal defense lawyer andrew

34:41

fleischman

34:42

what you want to take the case and whoever

34:45

that may be sorry boss and the kept telling good

34:47

wants to be prominently sitting on a major

34:49

of consider three

34:52

area way we know

34:54

, your to do it will do a job

34:56

doing as an excuse

34:58

how people would be something after that i

35:02

because he has week they want to risk losing it

35:05

all our diplomats

35:07

and the resources as somebody coming up allow

35:09

them on them case lottery system of

35:11

my not wanna like wanna delay who gets it

35:14

men also says this

35:16

mv hard to oversee would have been with

35:18

asus for us

35:19

his democratic opponent charlie bailey

35:22

has long hammered him on the campaign trail

35:24

for subverting democracy by serving

35:26

as a trump elector in a state joe biden

35:28

one

35:30

now he has a respected fulton county judge

35:32

singling out the prosecutor who'd been pursuing

35:34

jones for allegedly crossing a line

35:37

it's worth noting that in the same order

35:39

in he does qualify as well as investigating

35:41

jones make bernie denies

35:44

a similar request from eleven

35:46

of the other sixteen elected he

35:48

says well as has no conflict there

35:50

here's georgia state university law professor

35:53

anthony michael christ during his

35:55

take on make bernie's ruling

36:01

you know it's just as any other case

36:04

i don't know who turn out the same way i

36:07

would be judges doing is i

36:11

just have a degree joy ah

36:13

my so i'm just trying

36:15

to see more cautious

36:18

then what might want more

36:21

cautious than what your regular

36:23

case that's not is

36:26

highly politically charged in that's

36:28

not quite a series and that

36:30

doesn't have such major implications

36:32

works towards the politics and national politics

36:35

com gente separate you can do everything

36:37

the chance to keep the teams or

36:39

any potential t out

36:41

remember judge make bernie was appointed

36:44

back in january to the special

36:46

purpose grand jury if elected the

36:48

jerseys adjudicating conflicts

36:50

as they arise and he will accept

36:52

the jury's final recommendations undoubtedly

36:55

his order is a real rebuke of the fulton

36:58

da and represents a true misstep

37:00

for funny well as the professor

37:02

cries thinks just make bernie's ruling

37:05

that ultimately be helpful to willis's investigation

37:08

when everything said and

37:09

terms of their like information collected

37:13

small but i

37:15

think election think think that's the thing is that

37:18

the judges given us warning shots

37:20

with the da's office a means

37:22

to be extremely careful

37:25

going forward three

37:28

general saber the like know like i

37:30

mean yes it is tough loss the

37:32

one sense for since he's he's

37:34

trying to do are you trying

37:36

to do a be safe in the long run

37:38

we have a few other recent developments

37:41

to report

37:42

the special grand jury last week heard videotape

37:44

testimony from gov brian camp

37:47

the remember that heard repeatedly from

37:49

president trump in late twenty twenty and

37:51

early twenty twenty one trump

37:54

won in georgia gov to call for call special

37:56

session of legislature to overturn

37:58

joe biden wins

37:59

there's also began testimony

38:02

from the sake republican electors

38:04

they were required to come in after mcburney

38:06

down a request clash of subpoena

38:09

that said we're expecting those electors

38:11

to say very much beyond citing the fifth

38:14

they don't want to incriminate themselves after

38:16

being named targets of the investigations

38:19

here's one of their lawyers holly pearson

38:22

at the recent hearing before make burning

38:24

the modifiers situation

38:26

i generally cannot think of a single topic

38:29

for question they could be ass

38:32

there would not be either understand

38:34

them

38:34

mm hey anything that

38:37

be asked what's your name incriminating

38:40

what's your job that of these other political

38:42

change athletes emails no

38:45

period

38:45

i don't see

38:47

any half of this is actually be relevant

38:50

to the grand jury i'm

38:52

not quite a lot of those are several years

38:55

taking a situation whereas others have a

38:57

lot of people should not be that since with frogmarched

39:00

from the camera

39:02

the right

39:04

last week also brought a hearing in atlanta

39:06

federal court where congressman

39:08

jody face security subpoenaed

39:11

george me martin may have the us

39:13

district court for the northern district of georgia

39:16

denied isis requests

39:18

that she acknowledged that the republican may soon

39:20

be in federal court he objected

39:22

to specific questions asked by prosecutors

39:25

or jurors that deal with his role

39:27

as a us house member

39:29

remember ice is protected from some

39:31

questions by the constitution speech

39:33

or debate club

39:35

interestingly judge may says even

39:38

be willing to stand outside the grand jury

39:40

room where crisis being questioned and

39:42

with the republican every time there's an issue

39:45

she did say however

39:47

that would be an inconvenient last resort

39:50

peter to pay cause is the same one

39:52

being cited by south carolina sen

39:54

lindsey graham as he seeks to avoid

39:56

testifying

39:57

we'll be following those challenges closely

40:00

next on break down will

40:03

be taken be taken time off to watch this

40:06

progress that will be back

40:08

as major developments arise you

40:10

can certain about have always

40:13

thanks so very much for listening

40:15

i can follow or daily coverage on our website

40:17

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40:18

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40:19

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40:22

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40:24

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40:26

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40:29

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40:31

am to my hallerman this is

40:33

breakdown the trump grand jury from

40:35

the atlanta journal constitution