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[Intro] Breastfeeding Unplugged. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome mamas and mamas-to-be. A podcast dedicated to helping moms navigate their way through the tricky world of breastfeeding.

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Breastfeeding Unplugged.

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Breastfeeding Unplugged. Hello, mamas and mamas-to-be.

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Welcome to today's podcast. I am your host Amanda Gorman of Nest Collaborative. And this week's episode is very near and dear to my heart. As we all know, being a new mom is pretty tough.

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There's no two ways about it.

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Trying to figure out how to care for a newborn or multiple babies while staying sane, semi clean, and at least slightly human, is something almost all of us have had to grapple with. But for a certain very special group of women, trying to figure out the nuances of motherhood has its own unique set of challenges. So my question for today is, how do you balance the active duty of being a new mom when you're literally on active duty? Today, we'll take a walk in the shoes of one woman who can actually tell us what it's like to care for a newborn when you're in the military. Just thinking about it seems almost impossible to me.

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And not just because women in the military are a major minority. According to the Defense Department, women now make up 20% of the Air Force, 19% of the Navy, 15% of the Army, 15% of the Coast Guard, and almost 9% of the Marine Corps. Even though those numbers are a lot more impressive than they were just a few decades ago, the military's still widely considered a man's domain. So what is it like to be a woman, and more importantly, a new mom in the military, how to military moms get the support they need to care for their babies while still being at the ready to fight for our freedom. I have so many questions, and I'm sure you do too. So let's get right to it and welcome our guest. With me today is the incomparable Krystal Wallace, the Assistant Education Director for Mom2Mom Global, a worldwide network of breastfeeding support and advocacy resources for military families. Krystal is a certified lactation consultant, and La Leche League leader who holds a master's degree from Union Institute & University in Health and Wellness with a specialization in Human Lactation. What's probably most impressive is that Krystal's be- given birth and breastfed as an active duty officer in the Coast Guard and the Reservists. She still currently serves in the Coast Guard Reserve and is married to an active duty Coast Guard officer. Krystal, welcome.

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And let me start by saying thank you so much for your service.

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Oh, thank you for having me. I'm very excited about this.

2:46

Awesome. Let me just start really by saying that being a mom in the military seems almost unfathomable. So can we just start by talking a little bit about how this all happened for you?

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Oh, wow. So let me just start by saying that I had a super privileged experience that not all military moms are fortunate enough to have. My husband and I decided to start having children, probably about a year before I was my, my service time was up, and maybe a little less than that. And he was currently in flight school. I was commuting an hour to work in mobile, which doesn't sound privileged, but my mom was four hours away. So she'll play back into this. We got pregnant, I had my baby in early December. I had 42 days of leave. And then I took an additional. I took additional time off probably like an additional month out of my personal leave stash just because I wasn't ready to go back to work. I was panicking like any new mom about going back to work. And fortunately for my husband and I things kind of worked out. I was I was nervous because I worked an hour away from where we lived.

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My husband was in flight school.

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So his schedule was super random. I mean, we found out sometimes at five o'clock at night, what he was doing the next day. And so I didn't know what to do about childcare. I had no idea. I was like, okay, well if I put my kid in childcare where we live, and I'm at work and there's an emergency, how am I going to get there because I also was on the road for my job. I was a Marine Inspector so I would travel anywhere from probably as far as Pensa- Pensacola or a little further out all the way to Mississippi in a given day. So I could be two hours away from home, I could be three hours away from home and God forbid I would get a call that there was an emergency. I didn't know how to deal with that. And my husband could be flying and it's hard to get a hold of someone in the air. So we were fortunate enough that I called my mother who was living in Georgia at the time and wasn't working. And I begged her. I was like- and I didn't have to beg that hard. I was like, "Hey, can you come live with me three weeks out of every month until I get out of the Coast Guard?" And then my mother-in-law would come relieve my mom for a week of every month. So we had my mom for three weeks, and my mother-in-law for one week, and we did this rotation until I got off of active duty.

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Talk about calling in the troops.

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Yes, and I was, it was such a fortunate thing.

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And forecasting, I'm so thankful because my mom ended up passing away a couple of years later. So it was just amazing that she was at least able to be that significant role in my son's life early on. But I can't imagine going through first time motherhood without that support network. And so many military moms do, because their family is just, you know, their family may not be there, they may not have close family ties, they may be in another country. It's just- their family may still be working. I mean, I just happen to get lucky that my mother-in-law was a per diem nurse. So she made her own schedule, and that my mom wasn't, wasn't working at that time, it just all the stars aligned for me. You know, it wasn't without its challenges.

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Being a Marine Inspector, finding a- I worked in shipyards, primarily doing boat inspections and new construction for vessels, not the cleanest location in the world. So and also being one of the few females in the office, I often had to pump in the gv with men in the car, because sometimes the timing just worked out that we were still an hour from our destination. And I was going to burst. And so I was like, "Hey, guys, eyes forward, turn the radio up. I'm going to put this cover on and I'm going to pump."

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There's your training coming into into play.

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Yeah.

7:07

Wow. That's, that's an amazing story to hear.

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Tell us a little bit more about Mom2Mom Global and and this really wonderful network. I imagine that having access to breastfeeding res- resources that are more specialized for military families can be a huge relief for new moms. But I do know that they are at quite a minimum for most military families. So tell us about what you all do at Mom2Mom.

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So I am so impressed with this organization every day. And I wish I had found it when I was going through this. So Mom2Mom, we're a global network of breastfeeding support. We have chapters across the globe at military installations. And we're volunteer based. We requir that our volunteers, most of ou volunteers have some form of lactation credential, so that e can provide the best ca e possible. And we're also n advocacy group. So we we help o advocate for military fami y needs, military member needs.

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We have people talking to people in Congress, we have people on he US Breastfeeding Committee.

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nd then we also, what's amazin, is we have mothers that will call in and say here's my issue with my unit. I don't know i I'm explaining this right, a d we have members that will go head and contact the unit and h lp a member explain their need for breastfeeding. Explai the regulations. So we do a l t of advocacy work as well as d rect breastfeeding sup

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That's wonderful.

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And, and so needed. I'd love to know like what are the most common questions that you get when you're working with military moms, you know, outside of their difficulties or troubles you know, in their workspace, but just in doing your your lactation support with them. What do you find are the most common concerns that they bring?

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You know, it's very similar to most working moms is- the biggest questions are, you know, what should I do about pumping? What should my pumping schedule be? How do I bring my supply in? And it, that's what's interesting is it's most of our questions are the basic working mom questions.

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Where we differ is the more unique questions that come in for, because- we have so many different I guess you can say like job fields. So we may have moms calling about wearing bulletproof vests or we have moms calling about exposure to jet fuel or moms come in about lead exposure because they're working on ships. So that's where it gets unique, but our common questions are honestly the questions that most working moms might have.

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Thats's interesting. Bulletproof vests.

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I was just worrying about nursing balls. So talk to me a little bit about how childcare generally works in a military environment. I mean, you spoke about your own, you know, resources, which sound amazing.

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But what are the options on base for most military families?

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So a lot of big bases will have what we call Child Development Centers, which are great options. For military families, this, they're usually adjacent to the base, or they are on the base. So that's, you know, a lot of people's first option for childcare. But now, depending on your location, that may not be available. So most of the services do have some childcare subsidy programs that will help help with the cost of childcare outside of the government provisions. And so it's super useful. But if you don't have a CDC or the CDCs are full, which can happen a lot of times there's a waiting list, families are forced to go out and find local daycares or nannies. And that's where the child subsidy comes in. But that's pretty much the gist of it. I mean, it can be more difficult based on their locations outside of the US and finding, you know, with language barriers and stuff, but most of the time, there should be a CDC on post.

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Okay, and those- that CDC those are those Child Development Centers?

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Those are the child development centers. Yes. Sorry.

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Got it. So they can kind of help advocate or at least point you to resources.

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Yeah.

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Got it. Awesome.

11:47

That's- it's interesting, I, you know, I want to talk a little bit you- you mentioned your technique in terms of, "come on guys eyes forward." But, you know, in terms of policies, what what do you see in, you know, in military workspaces in terms of, you know, finding a place to pump or what the expectations are, when, you know, you are the, you know, gender minority?

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How does that work? Or, are there policies?

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So there are policies and all the services, pretty much say the same thing in a different way. But they say that there should be a clean space, for a woman to pump It cannot be a restroom, it should have access to water. Some of them require you to have a sink, some just have to say some say that there's needs to be a sink adjacent. So that's good. That's fairly been- that wasn't a policy when I was breastfeeding.

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And I'm so happy that it came up now, because most of us were pumping in the bathrooms or locker rooms at the time, but most services do provide lactation rooms. Where it gets difficult is for women that are in the field, you know, you're not going to get a lactation room in the field. And that's where you have to get creative.

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I'm sure. Can you imagine? Let me ask you this.

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You know, we hear a lot from moms coming to us working and pumping and really trying to pump on a schedule or sometimes being directed into a pumping schedule from their employer.

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Are there policies around that?

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Are women instructed when they're allowed to pump or how frequent? What has been your experience?

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So the policy for most, and it's like I said, it's written in pretty much the same way for most of the services just with some wording changes. But in general, I'll read the Air Force's policy. For example, it's a supervisor should work with their personnel to allow 15 to 30 minute breaks every three to four hours for pumping.

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Okay, that's reasonable. You know, you know, as you know, you know, every mom's needs are so different and I can't-

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And that's where it gets to be problematic at times.

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Yes. You know, and turning the tables a bit over to, you know, active duty.

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You know, if you have to be away from your baby for an extended period of time, you know, what does that end up looking like?

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You know, do you find that women are able to maintain their supply? Do you find that that kind of forces moms to, to supplement earlier than they would have liked or what is it?

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What have you experienced either from your friends or with yourself or other women you've helped?

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So thankfully, the military is really making some great strides to help maintain women in the services.

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So some of the things that have been coming up is they're allowing six months deferment for deployments for some services and up to a year deferment of deployments for others. Now, that doesn't always work out and in some cases, moms will decide to stop breastfeeding, but I have an amazing friend who- she was upper echelon on an icebreaker and so and she had just had a baby and she made it work. She was pumping, and then shipping her breast milk home to her husband to provide for her baby.

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And she made it work. It was super amazing. And I know that's not easy for everybody. But she continued to provide breast milk for her son while she was in Antarctica.

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Just the thought of trying to pump in extreme cold. I can't I can't even imagine. And let me ask you that does the military or TRICARE pay for the shipping?

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So right now, Coast Guard has a very defined policy through our coast- Coast Guard Mutual Assistance Program.

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The other services don't have as defined of a policy for shipping breast milk as we do. But I have heard from other members that there are ways to get it paid for I'm just not as familiar with those. But that's something like, if someone had a question, they could go ahead and pop onto our Facebook page. And we have an expert from every service that can help out with that.

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Like I said, they're not as defined from the other services.

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So sometimes you may be on your own to make it work. Thankfully, the Coast Guard has put this policy in place. So they will reimburse you for the shipping of your breast milk.

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Got it? That's well, that's great, hey, that's more than a lot of people get, period. So it's nice, it's nice to see that there's, there's avenues being paved.

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Oh, it was it was really exciting when that policy came out, or that privilege came out. I think it's making a huge difference for those moms that are really trying to do to be underway on ships, but want to provide breast milk for their babies.

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And other moms that are obviously like taking two to three weeks that they have to travel while they've just had a baby. Because even with the deferrals of deployments, it's a really hard decision for military moms to make. Because some of these appointments can make or break your career. And I'm not supposed to break it, but you know, there's some opportunities that you can't pass up, because they're, they may not come back around. So to be able to have these, these special options really is helpful.

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That's amazing.

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You know, as I mentioned a bit in my intro, you know, new moms in the military are a minority.

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And I can't imagine it's easy to have conversations about breastfeeding with a command. So how do you help women kind of approach these discussions that might be a bit uncomfortable for them?

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You know, it is super awkward. And I've had the conversation before. I've gotten much better at it as time has gone on that I'm unapologetic about the topic of breastfeeding.

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Good for you.

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But for some of our you know, for some new moms, or for just moms that aren't as open about these conversations, because some obviously, you feel that breastfeeding is a very private thing. I always suggest trying to have the conversation before you leave on maternity leave. Because if you have the conversation before, then you'll know what to expect when you come back. If you wait to have the uncomfortable conversation until you've just returned back to work and you're already frazzled, because you're away from your baby. It doesn't always go well. So my suggestion is always have it early. If you're uncomfortable in your title, look for someone in your chain of command that you are comfortable talking to. Try to look for another female, or a male that you know will advocate for you. It's it's really about finding the right person to talk to first to see how to approach it. Because if you have a supervisor, that is weird about stuff like that, then you might not be comfortable going to them even though you have to. But you can go ahead and get guidance from someone else on how to approach the situation. And I know, at least myself and many of my other friends and breastfeeding mamas in the military and Mom2Mom global members would be more than willing to walk someone through that and talk them through it.

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Yeah, it's a hard conversation.

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And unfortunately, you have to go into it being unapologetic about it as uncomfortable as it may be.

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No, I think you're doing a great service to to other women by by telling them that that's okay. You know, sometimes women just need to be allowed in some way, or just, you know, to help with the empowerment side of it. And, you know, it's certainly so much of what we do at Nest Collaborative. We've had the privilege of working with a number of military families, which is really a privilege and it's been very enlightening to our practice as a team and has, has added so much value to to what we're doing. But, you know, we do really advocate for that prenatal visit, you know, not only to teach a mom how to breastfeed but just like you said, to really do a risk assessment specific to her, and sometimes those risks are not physical or pathophysiological risks, but environmental. And getting back to and their work environment and, and getting them teed up for success sometimes is setting them up with those conversations and the right words and the right approach. So, you know, I think you're dead on and in helping them get through that early. So that's awesome. I do have one question for you. I'm just interested in kind of what is the craziest or most difficult thing you've had to help a military mom with? Like, do you have, you know, a unique story you could share?

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I'm trying to think.

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You can, you can marinate on that one a little bit. You know, I always find that, you know, lactation consultants typically have a couple of stories in their pockets.

20:55

You know, it's actually not been, for me, it's not been helping a fellow military mom so to speak, it's actually been a prior supervisor of mine, like I, when I got into the lactation field when I was starting to go to Union Institute University, and I was going down this whole journey to become a lactation counselor.

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My, one of my most senior supervisors, wrote my recommendation for graduate school. And we didn't really talk much about breastfeeding, he ju- he knew what I was g ing to be doing. But you know, t ere was never a conversation a out it. And then probably t ree years later, I get a r ndom phone call. And at this p int, he's retired. And he c lled me and he says, "Hey, rystal it's commander. My wif just had a baby and I remember I wrote you that recommendation for- to become a lactatio professional. Are you stil doing that? Because we nee help."

21:56

Awesome.

21:58

Out of the blue.

22:01

You must have made an impact in several ways.

22:05

I guess I never thought so. But that was that was definitely surprising and exciting all at the same time.

22:11

And I've actually had other male co workers that have come to me to help their spouses.

22:18

Oh, my gosh, that's awesome. But that is that is a good story. So being an active duty parent has obviously a whole different level of risk.

22:25

What keeps military moms up at night? Besides the baby?

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It's, am I fulfilling my duties? Am I am I pulling my weight? Am I a good soldier? Am I a good sailor?

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It's, it's always a question of am I doing everything I should be doing and being a good mom?

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I can't even imagine that on top of all the other. You know, moms just in general are always worried whether they're doing enough.

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And they're doing it right.

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Yeah.

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I can't even, I mean, that's, that truly is double duty. That's a lot.

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It is. I mean, I think that the thing that many people don't realize, and they're like, "Oh, well, that's similar to other working moms." And it definitely is, but we can't just quit our job. We can't just decide tomorrow that here's my two week notice I'm leaving. So when you make a commitment to the military, and you've made a commitment, and don't get me wrong, there's ways out, but there, you know, those timings have to work out just right. There's processes. And most of us that join, do it because we love what we do. And we're trying to make a difference. And we're trying to do something bigger than ourselves. But obviously, our families and our children are number one, but so are our- and our careers are less than our children, but it's a hard balance at times. And again, if we do decide we don't want to do it anymore. You can't just leave, like you're stuck for a little while.

23:59

Kind of like parenting.

24:01

Yes, you can't leave parenting either.

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So how can military women really advocate for what they do really need?

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I think it helps to talk about it. I think we need to talk amongst ourselves. We need to talk with our co workers, we need to be open and honest about motherhood and breastfeeding and working and how all of those interact with each other. Because while it can be difficult at times, it's perfectly doable, with open comp- with open conversations and supervisors that are willing to listen. And so sometimes we may take it to our supervisor.

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And if we're not getting support, we may have to take it above that supervisor's head which can be difficult, and it's not always going to be easy and it may suck. I mean, it's one of those times where when you say embrace the suck that that may be your situation. But we see military moms doing it all the time saying, "Hey, I'm not getting support," and they reach out. And then other military members will say, "Hey, I've got your back, let me see if I- here's the policy, let me talk to them." It's definitely about advocating for yourself, but also reaching out to people who have, who are also willing to advocate with you. Like Mom2Mom Global is a great, a great way to help- to- a great, a great group to reach out to, because they will find- if we don't have the resources, we will find the resources for you. But as a military mom, find other military moms. Have these conversations with your male co workers, because they need to know. And especially because your male co workers and you and other military women, the more you talk about it, the more they will understand and then more they will say "Oh, hey, I have this new junior person that just had a baby. Let me make sure they have what they need."

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So I think what you're saying is we we just need to be bringing the men into the conversation a little bit more. And, and earlier.

26:17

Yeah.

26:19

I think I think you're spot on with that.

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I mean, let's be honest, women, women aren't, you know, children and babies are not just a one gender responsibility. And I think we need to make- continue to promote that this is for the, for the health and well being of everybody. This needs to be a group effort here.

26:44

No, I can truly relate. And I think all women can. And I really do think you know, there's so much alignment.

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And I think that's why I've been very attracted to Mom2Mom and everything you're doing. Only because at Nest Collaborative that was really what we wanted to be doing too, is just opening up a more real and candid conversation about what this experience of entering motherhood and breastfeeding really looks like and not just kind of the pretty pink tulip version. So I, you know, I really appreciate it- you know, what Mom2Mom Global is doing in terms of getting, you know, a conversation going, making sure that it is real, it is accessible. And like you said, if they don't have the answer today, they will help you find it. So tell us, you know, how can someone get in touch with Mom2Mom Global for either lactation advice, or just to learn more about the resources that they're providing?

27:38

So we have our, you can go onto the web page, mom2momglobal.org. And within there, we have links for brea- for military members and for military spouses. You can volunteer through us, you- it also has the links to all of our social media pages. So our social media pages are great.

28:01

You can get on and ask questions, we have awesome admin team. And again, just like I said before, if they don't know the answer, I always say go right to our mom2momglobal.org web page, and then the links to everything will be in there.

28:18

Awesome. Thank you so much Krystal, this conversation has really been eye opening for me. And you know, as much as we respect and appreciate our active duty military and veterans, getting a glimpse of what it really is like to be a new mom in the military takes my admiration to a whole new level. I hope it's been- this conversation is giving a lot to the women who are listening, you know, and given them really the information they need to know, which is that they're supported.

28:43

For those of us who aren't in the military, I think you'll agree that we're so lucky to have people like you out there protecting us, while also raising your own amazing next generation of strong men and women. We can't really thank you enough for being here today. And you've shared a little bit about where our listeners can stay in the loop. But is there anything you want to share about either yourself or Mom2Mom before we close today?

29:10

So I would just like to say for military moms, military spouses, or non military mothers or parents.

29:22

Don't sit uncomfortably. Reach out for help. There are so many resources that are available from Mom2Mom Global, to La Leche League, to Nest Collaborative, like get the help you need.

29:36

There's a lot of people out there who are just like you who want help and there are resources out there. So reach out. Just don't sit at home, not knowing what to do or being miserable because you have no one to talk about your lactation issues with or mothering with.

29:51

Please reach out. It'll make it'll make the experience so much better.

29:59

That's wonderful.

29:59

Thank you. And yes, I copy all of those sentiments. So you know, thank you for for sharing that and reinforcing it. It's really, really important that moms know that it's it's normal to struggle, and it's normal to reach out. So thank you so much Krystal for everything you've provided so much infa- insight, and I really learned a lot. So thank you.

30:22

Thanks for having me. This is this is a great, great resource and I'm so glad that people are going to get to, to hear this and then yeah, I'm very excited about it.

30:34

Awesome. Well enjoy and to mamas and mamas-to-be that is the end of our show for today. Don't forget to like and follow us on Facebook and Instagram, where we can provide you with a transcription of today's podcast and plenty of additional resources and information. Don't forget if there's a breastfeeding topic you'd like to explore. We do want to hear from you. So until next week, it's me Amanda, wishing you well on your breastfeeding journey.