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"If Not Us, Who?"

"If Not Us, Who?"

Released Tuesday, 11th December 2018
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"If Not Us, Who?"

"If Not Us, Who?"

"If Not Us, Who?"

"If Not Us, Who?"

Tuesday, 11th December 2018
Good episode? Give it some love!
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Episode Transcript

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0:00

As Fridayful

0:09

Meet the Heart Kids as they appeared online.

0:13

This is a family sing along Jen posted

0:15

to YouTube back in two thousand thirteen.

0:17

Davante is on the bongo drum,

0:19

Abigail is holding a guitar but not playing,

0:22

and Jeremiah is shaking a morocco while

0:24

Hannah dances off to the side. They're

0:27

in a sunny room with a gleaming wood floor,

0:30

and the shelves behind them are packed with neatly

0:32

stacked picture books. Happy

0:34

times, right, It certainly

0:36

looks that way, especially when Davante

0:39

pauses to give Hannah a hug. Is

0:41

it spontaneous or

0:44

is the person behind the camera prompting

0:46

him with a stern glance. We'll

0:48

never know, yes, Zula,

1:04

we don't know when Jen and Sarah Hart decided

1:06

they wanted children. Maybe they always

1:08

wanted to be moms, or maybe they just felt

1:10

like kids were the next logical step. Years

1:13

after they adopted six children, Sarah would

1:15

tell a colleague that she wished she'd known it wasn't

1:17

mandatory to have a big family. She

1:20

was the oldest of four kids. Jen was the

1:22

oldest of three. We're piecing

1:24

together the events that led Jen and Sarah from

1:26

their early days together all the way to the edge

1:29

of that one d foot cliff in California.

1:32

How did they go from being just the two of them

1:34

living in Minnesota working at a department

1:36

store to a family of eight in

1:38

less than three years. From

1:41

glamour and how Stuff Works, this

1:43

is Broken Hearts. I'm

1:46

Justine Harmon and I'm Liz Egan.

1:50

We've been looking into the story of the Heart family

1:53

for the past six months. In public

1:55

and on Facebook. They looked like the perfect

1:57

family, fun loving, joyful,

1:59

and acky in the best way. But

2:02

as we've learned, sometimes

2:05

perfect is the perfect

2:07

cover up. In

2:23

two thousand four, when Jen and Sarah

2:25

were in their mid twenties, still living in Alexandria,

2:28

still working at Herburger's, they took in a

2:30

fifteen year old foster daughter. Just

2:32

to give some context, This was

2:34

the same year Minnesota State Senator Michelle

2:37

Bachman laid the groundwork for presidential

2:40

run on an anti gay platform,

2:42

calling homosexuality personal

2:45

bondage, personal despair, and personal

2:47

enslavement. When thousands

2:50

gathered on the steps of the Capitol to rally for

2:52

same sex marriage, she spoke out to a Christian

2:54

television network, there's something that's

2:57

happening in our schools. And one of the reasons

2:59

why I felt like I was called

3:01

to take up this issue is because

3:03

of the profound impact that

3:05

this would have on every man, every

3:07

woman, every child in the state of Minnesota.

3:10

Because everyone thought this would only impact

3:12

the one point three percent of our population

3:15

that is the same sex individual. And again,

3:17

don't misunderstand, I am not

3:20

here bashing people who are

3:22

homosexuals, who are lesbians, who

3:24

are bisexual, who are transgender.

3:27

We need to have profound compassion

3:29

for people who are dealing with a very real

3:31

issue of sexual dysfunction in their life.

3:34

It's not funny, it's sad. It's

3:36

part of satan. I think to say this is gay,

3:39

it's anything but gay. So

3:41

this is the backdrop for the world in which the

3:43

Hearts started to build their family. You

3:46

already met Jordan Smith. She was

3:48

only nineteen when she worked with Jen and

3:50

Sarah at her burgers our Field.

3:52

Reporter Lawrence Smiley talked to Smith

3:55

about Jen and Sarah's first foray

3:57

into parenthood. They are one

3:59

of my early role models for what like

4:01

a non traditional family could look like.

4:04

I was nineteen at the time. The foster

4:06

child she was probably I

4:11

remember one of them

4:14

sharing with me a lot of

4:16

like this girl is so difficult,

4:19

she's awful, and

4:21

that she was eating out

4:24

of the garbage. It

4:26

felt like mean girl gossip,

4:28

you know, like she's the worst. It

4:31

didn't feel like they really had interests

4:34

in developing her as a

4:37

person and giving her the tools

4:39

she needed to be a

4:41

successful adult. And I

4:43

just felt so sorry for the girl. I

4:46

wasn't really old enough to realize that, like these

4:49

are shitty parents, But even

4:51

at the time, I just kind of was like, this was a

4:53

child, she's struggling, Like

4:57

something's not right about this, Like

5:00

isn't it your job to make her feel more

5:03

confident and encourage her to have

5:05

healthy habits. But

5:07

you know, I also grew up

5:10

in the Midwest where I didn't

5:12

see a lot of like great

5:14

parental models happening. I

5:18

grew up where people still hit their

5:20

kids in the nineties, Like

5:24

in the Midwest and Minnesota, you

5:26

became parents are like one and

5:29

let's be honest, you're you're immature, Like,

5:32

okay, my brain is still developing until

5:34

I and now I have to develop

5:37

this other human instead of focusing my energy

5:39

on you know, becoming the adults I need to become.

5:44

Her burgers would have just like friends and

5:46

family sale and all

5:49

the makeup counters were filling the books with

5:51

a lot of makeovers to like drama

5:53

more business, and so Sarah

5:56

and Jen signed their foster

5:58

daughter up for one of the makeovers as kind

6:00

of a let's bring you into our world a little

6:02

bit, you know, like maybe this is something she

6:04

would want to learn about. I

6:07

was the only teenager working at the counters.

6:10

They thought it would be fun to have her go

6:12

with another teenage girl. So

6:15

I did her makeover, and you

6:17

know, i'd say things like she had really pretty

6:20

skin, which she did, I remember

6:22

that for some reason. And

6:25

she was hunched over, like

6:28

holding herself in. I

6:31

could tell she did not want to be there. I

6:34

remember Jen and Sarah,

6:37

mostly Jen interrupting and answering

6:39

questions or being like she

6:42

doesn't talk much. I

6:45

remember them being both very annoyed

6:47

with the situation, like we

6:50

came into work on a day

6:52

we're not working and

6:54

we're doing this nice thing and our boughter

6:57

daughters being difficult and annoying

7:00

it. I don't remember her

7:02

being difficult are annoying. I remember

7:04

her being very insecure

7:06

and unsure of herself, and

7:09

Jen being very intimidating. I

7:12

didn't see a lot of empathy coming through,

7:16

Like I remember that very clearly and being

7:18

like, huh, do you feel

7:20

sorry for this girl. After

7:26

Jen and Sarah died in March, their former

7:28

foster daughter told the Seattle Times that she never

7:31

ate out of the garbage she remembered

7:33

the makeover. She said she was a tomboy back

7:35

then and never wore makeup, which

7:37

would explain her slouched posture that day

7:39

with Jordan's. The former foster

7:42

daughter, now in her twenties and preferring

7:44

to remain anonymous, also told

7:46

the Seattle Times how she remembers Jen and Sarah

7:48

showing her pictures of the three young children

7:50

they were planning to adopt. She was thrilled.

7:53

Jen and Sarah had told her she was going to stay with them

7:55

until she turned eighteen, and now she was going to be

7:57

a big sister. But that's not what happened.

8:01

They were applying for the

8:03

children, the first three. They

8:06

had gone and visited them,

8:08

and I remember them being really excited.

8:11

I didn't apply like a lot of critical thinking

8:14

to the situation at the time. I

8:16

mean, like if I had my experience, now I'd be

8:18

like, you don't seem very excited with the child

8:20

you have, why do you want three more? But

8:23

mostly I remember hearing it like after

8:25

I left her Berger, I'd hear that, like

8:28

Sara Engin, they got their three

8:30

kids, like they're so happy.

8:34

I remember vaguely hearing

8:36

that they dropped the foster daughter

8:38

off and like just abandoned

8:41

her. And I

8:43

remember being like, what the fuck? Cold

8:46

blooded? Like, oh Jesus,

8:49

there is their excitement about getting adopted

8:52

kids. Did you get the sense they really wanted

8:54

to be moms or I got

8:56

the sense that they wanted the validation

8:59

be a foster parent, didn't have

9:01

the cloud of having children like

9:04

they want to be like, we

9:06

have children that are ours versus

9:08

a child? Were watching and do

9:11

you mean validation as in we're a real

9:13

couple, We're a real you know, we're

9:16

a real family. Jenet

9:26

Sarah dropped their foster daughter at a therapist

9:28

office and never returned. She

9:31

never heard from them again. She was moved

9:33

to a different foster home. Her belongings

9:35

were already there. She would

9:37

not become a big sister after all, She

9:40

told the Seattle Times. She remembers

9:42

feeling abandoned devastated.

9:49

Two years later, in two thousand six, Jen

9:52

and Sarah officially adopted those three siblings

9:54

from the Texas foster system,

9:56

Marcus then seven, Hannah

9:59

four, and Abigail too. On

10:02

December, in a

10:04

Facebook post celebrating Abigail or

10:06

Abby's twelfth birthday, Jen

10:08

wrote, she was the first of my children

10:10

I ever held in my arms. Not

10:13

only is today her birthday, but it

10:15

also marks the day Sarah and I became mothers.

10:18

We flew to Houston, Texas ten years

10:20

ago on Christmas Day to meet our first trio

10:22

of children. Due to a plethora

10:24

of issues that came up with our flight and then finding

10:26

the hotel had burned down, we wouldn't

10:29

meet the children until the next day, December.

10:34

We walked into the foster home a bundle of

10:36

nerves and excitement. The

10:38

foster mother called Abby from the upper level.

10:41

This dainty little peanut walked out,

10:44

grabbed the railing, walked down the stairs,

10:47

stood right at my feet, and held out

10:49

her arms as a gesture to be picked up.

10:52

I lifted her and she immediately nestled

10:54

her head right into my chest, with her tiny

10:56

arms gripped around me, genuine

10:59

love oozed out of every pore of

11:01

my body. I will

11:03

never know what it's like to birtha child,

11:06

or the feeling of holding your newborn for the

11:08

first time, but I imagine

11:10

the feeling is much like what I experienced

11:12

with Abby.

11:18

We'll get more into the adoption process, Leader,

11:21

but just to give you some quick background, Marcus,

11:24

Hannah, and Abigail fell into

11:26

several categories that might have made them hard

11:28

to place with adoptive families. They

11:30

were black. Black children are overrepresented

11:33

in foster care and less likely to

11:35

be adopted out of it, and it can

11:37

be more difficult to find families willing to take

11:39

on multiple siblings. Jen and

11:41

Sarah had their work cut out for them.

11:44

They were young, they had no family in

11:46

the area, and overnight they

11:48

became mothers of three.

11:52

Ten years later, on the anniversary

11:55

of the day Jen and Sarah brought Marcus,

11:57

Hannah, and Abigail home to Minnesota,

11:59

Jen would revisit their first night as moms

12:02

in a Facebook post. The post

12:04

is accompanied by Jen's profile picture. Jen

12:07

and Sarah hart cheeked to cheek, their

12:09

faces mostly hidden behind big sunglasses.

12:12

Here's what she writes, and bear

12:14

with us. This is long, but we

12:16

want to give you a sense of how much Jen really shared

12:19

on Facebook. A

12:21

different kind of Mother's Day, March

12:24

third, two th six, with

12:26

temperatures in the teens and an abundance

12:29

of snow on the ground. I wondered

12:31

what their reaction would be as we paced back

12:33

and forth, peering out the front windows

12:35

while clenching our phones in anticipation

12:37

of their arrival. The three hour

12:39

flight from Houston seemed like days. Nearly

12:43

two years of our lives had been dedicated

12:45

to making this moment a reality, and

12:47

then bab parenthood

12:50

times three. Jen continues

12:52

the lengthy post with rumination on their

12:54

first day as parents. All

12:57

the challenges of a lesbian couple trying

12:59

to break through barriers in a rural

13:01

community in Minnesota just transformed

13:04

into a story of hope and triumph.

13:07

The social worker pulled up in a silver sedan

13:10

and out came three little humans that gifted

13:13

us with motherhood. My

13:15

heart pounded with pure love and the strength

13:17

of a million drums as we embraced

13:19

and welcomed them to their home for the first time.

13:23

To say this was an unforgettable day would

13:25

be an enormous understatement. It

13:27

was unforgettable in all the ways we weren't

13:29

expecting. We had no idea

13:32

what challenges we would be facing in the coming

13:34

months years. I

13:36

can't even begin to imagine what it would be like

13:39

for a child that had lived their entire life

13:41

with inconsistency, abuse, and

13:43

neglect to be swooped twelve hundred

13:46

miles away to a new place with the

13:48

promise of this time it will be

13:50

different. This

13:53

is how the first twelve hours of motherhood

13:55

was for us. The youngest urinated

13:57

anywhere but the bathroom several times

14:00

and fell down a flight of stairs, resulting

14:02

in a bloody gash on her chin. The

14:05

middle child pulled out chunks of hair and

14:07

smeared feces on the wall and gorged

14:09

herself with food until she started choking

14:12

and needed the Heimlich, resulting in episodes

14:14

of projectile vomiting. The

14:17

oldest banged his head repetitively on

14:19

a rock wall until we were able

14:21

to safely restrain him. Blood

14:24

was involved. This was a result

14:26

of not giving him a king sized tutsie roll

14:28

that he requested at nine pm.

14:30

It took hours to calm him and get him to

14:32

a place where we could leave him in his room to

14:34

sleep. We were physically

14:36

and mentally obliterated by this time. We

14:39

went to be absolutely terrified as a

14:41

million thoughts ran through our minds. As

14:44

we drifted off to sleep, we were abruptly reminded

14:47

that our day was far from over. Loud

14:50

crashes, banging, and strange

14:52

sounds slash voices from above

14:54

us resulted in us sprinting upstairs

14:56

to find the eldest in a closet. He

14:59

told us he was possessed by demons as

15:01

he growled, clawed, and spoke in multiple

15:04

voices while continuing to thrash, bite,

15:06

and bang his head on the wall. My

15:09

heart was breaking and I was terrified. I

15:12

was terrified for him, and it would be

15:14

disingenuous if I didn't admit I was afraid

15:17

of what he could do to others as well. Hours

15:20

passed before we were able to get him to sleep.

15:22

That night, just when it seemed

15:24

like we could breathe again, the youngest had

15:27

an asthma attack and stopped breathing. A

15:29

one am e er visit followed. I

15:34

didn't sleep at all for the first forty eight

15:36

plus hours of parenthood. I

15:39

cried a lot. What

15:42

had we done? We had no experience

15:44

with these kinds of things. We questioned

15:47

everything. When the social

15:49

worker called to check in after the first night,

15:51

we related everything, the good, the bad,

15:53

and the ugly. Her response,

15:56

just give them whatever they want. We

15:59

were dumbfounded. That's

16:01

it, that's the golden advice.

16:04

In that moment, I knew what to do. We

16:07

could not give up on these kids. Before

16:10

we were matched with these children, they were going

16:12

to be separated and adopted into two

16:14

different families, with the oldest place

16:16

in a residential treatment facility. How

16:20

can a child even know what they want when they haven't

16:22

ever been gifted with what they need? If

16:25

not us, who at

16:28

twenty five years old. We didn't have any parenting

16:30

experience under our belts, but we

16:32

had boatloads of love, compassion,

16:34

intelligence, and the natural instincts

16:37

to navigate these wild and uncharted

16:39

waters. There was no

16:41

way on earth we were going to toss

16:43

these children back into an incredibly

16:45

broken and abysmal foster care system.

16:48

Here we are, one decade

16:50

and three more kids later, ten

16:53

years ago to day, we became mothers

16:56

and began the grandest adventure of

16:58

our lives. Through

17:01

the spectrum of despair and utter

17:03

joy, I give thanks to all

17:05

of us who have joined this journey of

17:07

the Hearts. Look what love

17:09

can do. Come assist in

17:11

writing the next chapter with us, Love,

17:15

Love, Love. The

17:30

adoption records for Marcus, Hannah,

17:32

and Abigail are sealed, so it's

17:34

hard to fact check Jen's claims of health

17:36

or behavioral issues, but there

17:38

is no evidence that Abigail, the youngest,

17:40

had asthma. We also can't

17:43

verify whether Marcus was going to be placed in residential

17:45

treatment. The sibling

17:48

Gen was referring to here may have been the older

17:50

brother of the Davis Is the second set

17:52

of siblings adopted by the Hearts kids

17:54

Sarah and Jen hadn't even heard of back

17:56

in two thousand six. Maybe

17:59

Jenn, ten years later, was just getting the kids

18:02

mixed up. There were six of them, after all. Every

18:04

mom calls her kids by another kid's name at some

18:06

point. But the night was so momentous

18:09

for her. One can't help but wonder if she was

18:11

going for drama over truth. Can

18:14

you imagine if your mom posted something

18:16

like this about you on Facebook? Remember,

18:20

at this point, the Hard kids were teenagers. Marcus

18:22

was seventeen, Hannah was fourteen,

18:24

and Abigail was thirteen. Maybe

18:27

they never saw their mom's Facebook posts,

18:29

but if they did, they would have been old enough

18:31

to be completely mortified. Janet

18:36

Sarah must have gotten into the groove, because

18:38

not long after they welcomed their first

18:40

three kids, a picture of their new family

18:43

of five appeared on an adoption agency

18:45

website. They were smiling,

18:48

everyone looked happy. This time,

18:50

Jen and Sarah were seeking up to three

18:52

more kids of any ethnicity

18:54

up to eight years old. Two

18:57

years later, in the spring of two thousand

18:59

eight, they took in three more foster kids,

19:02

five year old Davante and his younger siblings,

19:05

Jeremiah four and Sierra three.

19:08

The Davis siblings were also from Texas,

19:10

and they'd been removed from their mother's home in Houston.

19:13

According to court records, she was a crack

19:15

cocaine abuser and was forbidden contact

19:17

with the kids. The records

19:19

showed that Jeremiah had tested positive

19:22

for cocaine at birth, and the kid's mom

19:24

had tested positive for cocaine after Sierra

19:26

was born. They'd been living

19:28

with their paternal aunt, Priscilla Celestine

19:31

for five months. She'd moved from a

19:33

three bedroom apartment to a five bedroom

19:35

place to make room for them, but then

19:37

one day, a CPS worker made a spontaneous

19:40

visit to their aunt's home and found their mom

19:42

babysitting. The

19:44

consequences were swift. Davante, Jeremiah,

19:47

and Sierra were removed from their

19:49

aunt's home and put into foster care. Shaunda

19:53

Jones, Celestine's attorney,

19:55

says Celestine had been called into work for

19:57

an extra shift a needed childcare in

19:59

a pinch, She's trying to keep her job,

20:01

so she scrambled for childcare and called their

20:03

mom, who she says was clean at the time.

20:07

Jones met the family ten years ago, but she

20:09

still remembers their case. Here's

20:11

how she described it to Lauren. The

20:13

father's rights were being terminated because I think

20:15

he had alcohol problems and

20:18

the mother had drug problems,

20:21

and so that's why their rights were terminated. Which

20:24

I don't take issue with that in

20:26

that instance, that was the prudent thing to

20:28

do. But I always have taken issue

20:30

within this case is the

20:32

harsh manner in the way that they dealt with

20:34

Miss Celestin. There was nothing

20:37

in her background whatsoever, probably

20:39

never even had as much as a driving ticket

20:41

um And to this day,

20:43

it just seems so strange, like I

20:45

don't understand what is the rush.

20:49

I do think that race is a part

20:52

of thing. Absolutely. I think race is playing a part.

20:54

You know, when people are sitting in the audience thinking

20:56

that, okay, well, why did the judge just rule

20:58

that way? Would think If I was trying

21:00

to adopt a kid and you had a family

21:03

member that wanted to adopt them, I personally

21:05

would think that's great. Why should I try

21:07

to interfere with the family member's adoption of their own

21:10

family? Right? That should kind

21:12

of like be a clue right there and there that this is a person

21:14

you don't think can operate in the child's best interest.

21:17

Let's pause here for a second on that point.

21:20

Davante, Jeremiah, and Sierra hen

21:23

and aunt who wanted them, She really

21:25

wanted them, but instead

21:27

they were sent to live with Jen and Sarah Hart,

21:30

who were soon to be under investigation for

21:32

child abuse. Yes, you

21:34

heard that right. We'll get into more

21:37

on that later, but

21:40

first we want you to know a little more about the heart

21:42

children, who they really were, as

21:44

best as we can piece it together from Jim's Facebook

21:46

posts and our conversations with people

21:49

who knew them. First.

21:51

There was Marcus, the one

21:53

with the big, floppy hair. He

21:56

loved to read and devoured Twilight in one

21:58

sitting. He wanted

22:00

to change the world one

22:03

Christmas. According to his mom, he

22:05

asked for a world without cancer. Hannah

22:09

was the spunky one with a closed mouthed smile.

22:11

Her front teeth were missing. Jen's

22:14

Facebook post described her as dancing and singing.

22:17

Once. She told her mom she couldn't concentrate

22:20

on subtraction because she had a song stuck in

22:22

her head. She

22:24

must have been a courageous kid, too, because

22:26

she would later jump out of her bedroom window and run

22:29

to the neighbor's house task for help. Next

22:32

up DeVante, whose face

22:34

you might remember from a photo that went viral

22:36

in two thousand fourteen. Davante

22:39

was the boy hugging a cop tears

22:41

streaming down his face. He

22:43

was known for wearing a free hug sign wherever

22:45

he went. He loved animals

22:48

and hated Donald Trump. He

22:50

appeared to have a special bond with Jen. He

22:53

may have gotten special treatment as a result.

22:57

Abigail known as Abby, had big

22:59

brown eyes and glasses. She

23:01

loved lime, green, yoga, and

23:03

exploring the wilderness. She had

23:05

a homemade strawberry shortcake on her birthday.

23:09

All the Hard kids were arrestingly beautiful, but

23:11

when you look at pictures of Abigail's face, you

23:13

feel like you can see the elegant woman she might have grown

23:16

up to be. Jeremiah

23:18

wore glasses too. They called

23:21

him the J Man. He was stoic.

23:24

A survivor, Jen said

23:26

he wasn't expected to live more than a few

23:28

days when he was born, what with all the drugs

23:31

coursing through his system.

23:33

Instead, he made it to fourteen and

23:36

last, but not least, there was Sierra. She

23:38

was another animal lover. She adored

23:40

her kitten, Sebastian and pulled him around the

23:42

house in a cardboard box. In

23:45

one of Jen's final Facebook pictures, we

23:47

see her holding one of her brother's hands backs

23:49

to the camera. She's wearing a bathing

23:51

suit and her shoulder blades are so pronounced

23:53

they look like little wings. In

23:57

the past several months, Justine and I have

24:00

seen hundreds of pictures of the Heart

24:02

kids, but we only have a handful

24:04

of recordings of their voices. Here's

24:07

one from two thousand twelve. You

24:09

can hear the kids giggling in the background, and

24:11

Jen's voice as she hands Jeremiah

24:13

and Earthworm. You're ready,

24:16

Yes,

24:19

Yes, what are you doing?

24:22

I was excited? Try

24:27

again? Can

24:29

you try not to throw him this time like

24:37

he's turning kids? Oh,

24:39

maybe he loves you up

24:48

next time? On Broken Hearts, Yeah,

24:51

I see them. They're right over his head. I

24:53

know it doesn't look like it, but that bird

24:55

is really a dove asking

24:57

us for world peace, no

25:00

wars. When

25:03

I say that Jen was good, she was good

25:05

at the time, we're thinking, Wow, phenomenal

25:08

parenting. You're not exploiting your children. We

25:10

learned now that there was some abuse charges in

25:12

Minnesota there fleeing

25:15

to Oregon, so there's probably more of a reason

25:17

why she didn't want to go on national TV. Have

25:20

you seen John's Facebook? Jen

25:23

loves Sarah to an

25:25

insane degree.

25:31

Broken Hearts is a joint production between

25:33

Glamour and How Stuff Works, with new

25:35

episodes dropping every Tuesday. Broken

25:39

Hearts is co hosted and co written

25:41

by Justine Harman and Elizabeth Egan

25:43

and edited by Wendy Knockle. Lauren

25:46

Smiley is our field reporter, Samantha

25:49

Barry is Glamour's editor in chief, Julie

25:52

Shen and Dianna Buckman head up the

25:54

business side of this partnership. Joyce

25:56

Pandola, Pat Singer and Luke

25:59

Zeleski are a research team.

26:01

Jason Hoke is executive producer on

26:03

behalf of How Stuff Works, along

26:05

with producers Julian Weller, ben Kiebrick,

26:08

and Josh Thaine. Special thanks

26:10

to Jen Lance. Have questions

26:13

for us about this podcast, reach

26:15

us on Twitter at Glamour mag for

26:18

access to exclusive photos and videos

26:20

and documents about the case. Visit

26:23

glamour dot com slash Broken

26:25

Hearts. If you like what you heard,

26:27

leave us a review.

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