0:15

Pushkin. Sixteen

0:21

years have passed since The Black Crows last put

0:23

out an album of all new material. The

0:25

world changed a lot since then, and it appears

0:28

so have the Robinson brothers. Chris

0:31

and Rich Robinson are, of course the backbone

0:33

of the group. They started together back in

0:35

Georgia in eighty four as Mister Crow's Garden

0:38

before moving to NYC, signing

0:40

with Death American and changing their name

0:43

to The Black Crows. The band's

0:45

debut album, Shake Your Money Makers set them

0:47

up as torch bearers of Southern rock for

0:49

the nineties and beyond. As

0:51

you'll hear in our conversation, the brothers Robinson

0:54

have had a competitive relationship

0:56

for a long time. Their ups and

0:58

downs have meant hiatuses for the band over the

1:00

years, but now they're back united

1:03

and seemingly in it for the long haul with their

1:05

new album Happiness Bastards. On

1:08

today's episode, I talked to Chris Robinson about

1:10

his growing up in Georgia with Rich, their dad's

1:12

rockabilly career, his listening

1:15

routine that includes Sudanese and Sufi

1:17

music, and how his road habits have changed

1:19

from indulging in champagne and other

1:21

substances to reading Herman

1:24

Melville.

1:27

This is broken record liner notes

1:30

for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman.

1:32

Here's my conversation with Chris Robinson

1:35

of the Black Crows. Is

1:37

that a gun club like the band? Sure that

1:39

you go on?

1:39

Yeah?

1:40

Yeah, yeah, oh hell yeah. I love gun

1:42

Club man.

1:43

Jeffrey Lee Pierce one of my faves.

1:45

And it's funny because, you know, when we

1:47

started, people would always say we sounded

1:49

like and we did. We had, you know, there was the Jengle

1:52

sort of indie pop thing, Rim

1:54

of course being the purveyors

1:57

of that, but Let's Active and

1:59

the DBS and then bands from California

2:02

like Game Theory. We kind of were into like this kind

2:04

of jangly sixties inspired but

2:07

we really sounded early days a

2:09

lot like the gun Club, you know, because gun

2:11

Club and X are very interesting to me, and

2:13

the like early punk scene

2:15

here in Los Angeles because they

2:18

were the well, I guess you could put the

2:20

Blasters and the plugs in there too.

2:22

Blasters are from esp though, right.

2:23

Oh, Blasters are a LA band too, you are

2:26

they?

2:26

Okay? Cool?

2:27

They had those kind of rootsyed

2:30

things, you know, and it would be really early

2:32

on that we would think like, okay, well, Jeffery Lee

2:34

Pierce is like a punk icon,

2:38

but he plays with Robert Johnson

2:40

song on the first record, you know, I mean, it doesn't

2:42

like Robert Johnson, but needless

2:44

to say, he found great inspiration and

2:47

the mythology and the imagery and

2:50

the vibration of like the blues and stuff

2:52

which other punk bands really didn't.

2:54

Whatever music is happening in La, there's

2:56

always some subset of it that countrifies

2:59

it. You know. It's like even with the Birds, like Sweetheart

3:01

of the Rodeo, like all that stuff, Like the Birds got

3:03

into that, and you know, I don't know you could even

3:06

feel that with Buffalo Springfield and

3:08

I mean, I know, like Neil from Canada or whatnot. But they're

3:10

making music here, you know, of course.

3:11

Of course, well I mean, you know, I mean, while

3:14

that's going on, Tim Buckley's here and

3:16

you know what I mean. And while that's going on,

3:19

you have bands like the Chambers Brothers

3:21

and Eric Burden Leaves the

3:23

Animals and Northern

3:25

English White Band playing blues

3:27

music. And then he's the lead singer of War

3:31

It.

3:31

War is like such a quintessential La

3:34

Long Beach of fact group, you know.

3:36

I mean, I think obviously there's subsequent

3:39

most famous records don't

3:41

include Eric Burdon. Yeah, And

3:43

it's funny. It also just goes to show how

3:46

that's just how music is, isn't it. You know what I

3:48

mean? I mean, I guess you obviously you can make

3:50

examples of things that seem heavy

3:54

handed or things that don't contain

3:57

a certain authenticity. But I mean

3:59

that was a big deal when I you know, talking about

4:01

growing up in a band, being

4:03

from Atlanta, being like

4:06

in a arguably the most progressive city

4:09

in terms of race relations, and if

4:12

not America and maybe globally.

4:14

That's interesting. It probably has to be. I mean, you might I

4:16

might have been coming to say New Orleans, but I think when

4:18

you kind of look at the musical legacy of

4:20

Atlanta over the last I.

4:22

Mean New Orleans most definitely, but Atlanta

4:25

is different because of the black universities,

4:27

yeah, like kind of

4:29

concentrated there, and Atlanta

4:32

having Maynor Jackson as the first

4:34

black mayor the first black police chief for

4:36

the black police force in the Deep South.

4:38

When I first landed in Atlanta, I got to say, coming from LA

4:41

because I grew up in La. When I first landed in Atlanta, I'm

4:43

in the airport, I'm like, with a

4:45

whim, like, how the.

4:47

Whole airport is black? This is crazy. It was the weirdest

4:49

experience for me. Funny, that's funny.

4:51

And as I said, I'm

4:53

a third generation Atlantan and I

4:56

don't really make the connection

4:59

of being like I'm a Southern person,

5:01

but my connection is with Atlanta. Yeah.

5:03

And so so it's funny because Maynard

5:06

Jackson is the guy who when Hartfield International

5:08

Airport becomes an international airport,

5:10

He's the one who's like, we're not doing

5:12

anything unless black

5:15

business owners are recognized and have a piece

5:17

in this and what that can mean for the community. Something

5:20

very subtle like that still reverberates,

5:22

I think, and besides

5:24

the culture, because

5:27

you start to see Atlanta also be a city,

5:29

you know, famous for the musicians and the

5:32

hip hop and the athletes that I'll move there.

5:34

But the reason that becomes attractive is because

5:36

of decisions like that and the

5:38

hard line that someone like mayn Or Jackson

5:41

would take, and how Atlanta had been pried

5:43

open. Of course, having the Great

5:45

Reverend Bee from there, you know, gives Atlanta

5:48

a different perspective, but

5:50

I don't know. It's a unique place in that way. And

5:52

it's funny, like I speak on it from the

5:54

past, because I really left first

5:57

check, I got into Black Crows. I moved to

5:59

New York. Being in a band to me was like,

6:02

you know, shooting an arrow over the mountain,

6:04

like just I wanted to get

6:06

out in the world.

6:08

Had you been to New York before we moved there?

6:10

Yeah? Yeah, Actually, you know our

6:12

dad, richardized dad was a singer.

6:15

He had a top forty rock and roll

6:17

hit in the fifties called

6:19

Boom a Dip Dip. You can check it out on Spotify.

6:22

I've listened to some of that stuff.

6:24

Very good, man, it's really good. Yeah,

6:26

it's a good song. And so I really happened

6:29

and looked at New York and he was

6:31

like, you know, into the theater

6:33

and music and acting

6:35

and dance, you know. So he wanted that too

6:38

at a certain time in his life, and he

6:40

was in New York. And it's

6:42

funny. My mom was a flight attendant

6:45

for the old Eastern Airlines,

6:48

and you know, it's funny she told me, she goes, Oh, I

6:50

served doctor King many times

6:52

on flight side of Atlanta. Wow,

6:55

I always really blew my mind as a kid.

6:57

You know, of course she did. I would make I mean, how

6:59

many flights out of Atlanta? Musty have taken that

7:01

out all.

7:02

The time, you know? You know. So I

7:05

moved to New York first, and I still

7:07

love New York and some of my deepest

7:10

connections and friendships are

7:12

there. My wife and I just

7:14

got back from there yesterday. But

7:17

I came to Los Angeles,

7:19

and I don't know, it was farther away

7:21

from Georgia, from everything. I

7:24

mean, California has an idea California.

7:27

Later I would get to know far

7:29

more about this state. And I lived up north

7:32

for six years, and I was in this little hippie

7:34

band and we started. We did nine weeks

7:36

just up and down California in the van,

7:39

playing all the little beach towns and

7:41

hippie towns. And you know,

7:43

I got a real appreciation for

7:46

do you remember hughle.

7:47

Houser, Oh, come on, man,

7:49

California's goal.

7:50

Baby. I was like the psychedelic hule Houser,

7:52

you know what I mean, you know hil

7:54

Hauser. I was like, so this is an

7:57

atobe.

7:58

Wow.

7:59

He was amazed about everything too, He's

8:01

like, so this is a ball of Manuda.

8:06

I love hul Hauser Lake

8:09

great Man, the late great hutle Hauser

8:11

Man. I love and you know what, he

8:13

was always so excited he saw

8:16

mission from San Diego to like,

8:18

you know, the Oregon border, so that the

8:21

mission like so excited.

8:24

Everything was ecstatic to him. It was crazy.

8:27

It was so that was that was a funny show to watch.

8:29

Man. I loved it.

8:30

When I moved here, I was like, what is this?

8:32

Is this good? I also am lucky

8:34

that when I'm I'm so I moved here. In ninety one

8:38

early ninety two, that was the

8:40

golden age of public television.

8:43

Yeah, I'm the weirdest, weirdest

8:46

of the weird stuff would come on TV

8:48

Man on the couple of public stations

8:50

on your cable, like Channel six

8:52

and Channel fourteen or whatever, the

8:55

most unimaginably, I

8:58

mean obviously like Tim and Eric. I don't know

9:00

if you ever got into Tim and Hell. Yeah, Tim

9:02

and Eric like take the inspiration

9:04

of that into their twisted world for the series,

9:07

which is still some of my favorite stuff.

9:10

You don't need a Chinese massage, you need an Italian

9:12

massage. It was fantastic

9:14

you know what I mean, And you know the other thing

9:16

about things that were really I've

9:18

always been interested in outsider culture,

9:21

you know, when those would be like driven by like

9:23

this, but because of Hollywood, it made

9:25

it even weirder, Like I'm on TV now I'm

9:27

famous too, you know what I mean, pre

9:30

dating the psychoses that has become

9:32

social media, you know.

9:33

Yeah, yeah. People always describe LA when

9:36

they come to LA as being closer to the industry,

9:38

as being closer to things. But I

9:41

also find that you can find your niches

9:43

and stay way out of the way of the

9:45

industry if you want. I did it.

9:47

Yeah, I mean when I moved to Topanga

9:50

Canyon at a certain point, I moved

9:52

to Topanga because I have these romantic

9:55

notions of what northern California, what I've

9:57

been to northern California, but what it might feel like

9:59

not to be in LA, but to still be able

10:02

to be in LA for different reasons.

10:05

I'm of the firm belief that Los Angeles is one

10:07

of the great cities world

10:09

and which is also

10:12

unique because of how new this city

10:14

is comparatively. In eighteen

10:16

sixty there's five thousand people living

10:18

here. That's wild ranchers and

10:20

spread out and it's just come

10:23

over from Mexican rule and

10:25

stuff from that government. And they had,

10:28

you know, gave everyone deeds

10:30

to these mass affincas and ranches

10:33

and things that were all of California, you

10:35

know. So it's not that old

10:37

in the big scheme of things. But

10:41

the other funny thing is when I came here,

10:45

I was I laugh all the time because was like growing

10:47

up in Atlanta or whatever. In nineteen

10:50

I had my first sushi in nineteen eighty nine.

10:52

My guy ended

10:54

up being our manager, Like, took me and Rich with some

10:56

friends to get sushi.

10:59

And that place is called Imperial

11:01

Gardens or whatever. It was right there on Sunset.

11:03

It's now like a Loco place or something,

11:05

but it was the Roxbury later. But

11:08

anyway, were sitting there and like,

11:10

of course I know what it is, but I'm

11:12

you know, standing Nancy

11:14

Robinson in Atlanta. We didn't, you

11:17

know what I mean. Like I remember

11:20

being sixteen and telling my dad, like

11:22

coming downstairs one day, I was like, why have

11:24

we never had Indian food? My dad was like, you're

11:26

right, we should go get it. And I was like we all drove

11:28

to the one Indian restaurant, you know, and it

11:31

was amazing. Wow, I'm

11:33

here in nineteen eighty nine. I'm still working

11:35

on the first album, and I'm a kid from Atlanta.

11:39

But the cool thing is it's a mentality.

11:41

You get farther away from where you come from,

11:43

and like anything else, you

11:46

figure out what's delicious about

11:48

it and what's special about it, and now it has

11:50

a place in your culinary like

11:52

thing that tonight's sushi, we want to go

11:54

and you know what I mean, And then you can on

11:57

that level. But there was one time where you're you

11:59

know, I come to La I don't

12:01

know anything about anything, and I don't even know what

12:03

this is.

12:04

How far removed from Atlanta do you feel

12:06

now? Like do you feel like an atlantin?

12:10

I mean not

12:13

especially, And none of that is to be taken

12:16

as if Atlanta has feelings. I do

12:18

love Atlanta more than ever. But it's

12:20

also I like the remnants

12:23

of the Atlanta that I remembered,

12:25

so when you go back you don't see the I mean, man,

12:27

it's changed. There was this thing on Peach

12:29

Street called the Darlington Apartments, and

12:31

there it used to have this digital thing

12:34

and it would be like two million nine

12:36

nine, you know what I mean that, you know, and it was

12:38

the population and it got

12:40

older. With the population sign it got bigger

12:43

and it went to three million in nineteen ninety.

12:46

Wow. You know. We used to hang around this

12:48

monthly thing called the Mudshack at

12:50

this after hours Mexican burrita

12:53

place, and it was a poetry.

12:54

Reading and just the poet would get it on stage,

12:56

like.

12:57

I live in a city of three million

12:59

people, as if it was like, you know this Atlanta

13:02

of this it's almost eight

13:04

million people now.

13:05

Yeah, yeah, right, that sounds about right. It's huge

13:08

went on there?

13:09

I mean, of course I love it, But most

13:11

a lot of the Atlanta you

13:14

know, the house where we used to rehearse and have parties

13:16

is now the Federal Reserve. The club

13:18

that we based all our rock and

13:21

roll dreams and mythology on is now

13:23

at that you know, a place where people go get stitches.

13:25

Or whatever, you know what I mean, Like all of

13:27

that kind.

13:27

Of stuff from back in the eighties, whenever the

13:29

world was new and music

13:32

was all our career was ahead of us.

13:35

That's all kind of gone. Yeah,

13:37

you can see that, the skeleton

13:39

of it, you know what I mean?

13:40

Yeah, wellcome back

13:42

with more of my interview with Chris Robinson. After

13:45

this quick break, we're

13:50

back with Chris Robinson. Do

13:53

you get excited to tour these days?

13:55

Like?

13:55

Can you still get excited about it?

13:56

I do? I do. It was funny. I've done a couple

13:58

of interviews for this project and

14:01

I'm like shocked that the people have said,

14:03

you're the first musician who says they still find

14:05

inspiration doing what you do

14:08

and being on tour, they say is so boring.

14:10

I'm like, I've never lost the

14:13

dream. And again, I've never been bored,

14:16

you know what I mean, even as a kid, like

14:18

with my mom and go to your room, I'd

14:20

be like, I'm amazing. That's

14:23

all I want to do. All records are

14:25

in there, the books I'm reading are in there. I

14:27

can draw, I can dream, you

14:29

know what I mean daydream? I mean I was somewhere

14:32

there's a permanent record of me, and all it says is

14:34

prone to daydreaming. Not

14:37

very good at math. But

14:39

I was saying, I mean it's just the way it is.

14:42

I mean, is it tedious

14:44

sometimes? Fuck yes, I'm fifty seven

14:47

now. Airports fucking

14:49

suck. Not every

14:51

gig is a magical experience,

14:54

but you never know who you're gonna meet, and it

14:56

could be anyone. It could be the Guyanese

14:59

uber driver who pitch you up in Saint Louis,

15:02

who's fucking hilarious, an amazing,

15:04

soulful person who's left a life

15:06

behind to try to eke out something

15:08

better, and like it's so brave and courageous,

15:11

and you know, and you're only

15:13

with this person eight minutes from the airport

15:15

or whatever, and you just two people in the world

15:17

laughing in a car. You know. But that little

15:20

thing that doesn't even necessarily have to be

15:22

a part of the narrative. It just has to be a part of that.

15:25

You still believe that

15:27

there's dynamic and

15:30

meeting people and talking and laughing

15:32

and sometimes crying. But I'm just naive

15:34

enough to still see it as in the same

15:37

way that I wanted. I picked music

15:39

on a lot of levels because I knew

15:41

it was the one thing that I

15:44

would travel all the time. Yeah,

15:46

and then you set up your little thing and then

15:49

you put your vibes out there. You know, it is

15:51

pretty rare.

15:51

I feel like, listening to you talk, the only

15:54

other person who has

15:56

had a level of success that you've had and

15:58

towards as much as you do, and travels as much as you do. That

16:00

seems to still love it. I got lucky. I met Quincy

16:02

Jones in Havana maybe ten years ago,

16:05

and the joy he has to like

16:07

travel and just talk to anybody. It's like he's

16:10

like, yeah, he'll tell Sinatra stories, and I'll tell

16:12

the story about like the cab Driver and

16:14

like Memphis, and you're like everything

16:17

is like new and fun and

16:19

interesting in every person and everything and

16:21

every sound and every that's a particular

16:24

joy that you don't find in a lot of

16:26

a lot of people.

16:27

Like I said, I understand, and

16:30

you know, you get older. It

16:32

also helps in my life that after all

16:35

the rock and roll and all the

16:37

experiences that I found Camille

16:40

my wife, because I found

16:42

someone who she understands

16:44

that some of that is problematic and

16:47

some of it's pain in the ass, and some of

16:49

it is like can't we just be do

16:52

normal something? And like,

16:54

by the way, we could talk about that and

16:57

do our best. But then she also realizes,

16:59

like she's an artist and she's

17:02

Piss's queen Moonstone

17:04

child out in the world, you know, who wants

17:06

to feel these things too, And you

17:09

know. My thing is the pandemic was

17:11

such a fucking head trip. Personally,

17:14

I didn't really find it creative. I found

17:16

it stifling. But we were lucky enough

17:18

to live out in the wilds

17:21

of West Marina and then we were in Southwest

17:23

Colorado amazing, Yeah, which

17:25

was really really help. But

17:28

one thing I thought I would really flip

17:30

out on was it was the first

17:32

time since I was basically a teenager

17:35

where I wasn't working and touring and

17:37

singing and playing and doing the whole

17:39

spiel. And you know what, it

17:41

was rad really

17:44

you liked it. Wow, my

17:46

head didn't fall off, you know, our

17:49

lives didn't, you know, disintegrate

17:51

into nothing. It was nice. I had time

17:53

for a lot of other things. And it's

17:56

funny the travel

17:58

part of it. I was just talking

18:00

to my manager Mark last night

18:03

about how at a certain point

18:05

it would be nice to

18:07

bow out from forming the

18:09

way we perform before. I

18:12

can't because I love

18:14

the travel and we fit in the things that we

18:16

want to. But it's

18:18

different to be in a place for you know, we're going

18:21

to Paris, I'm gonna see my friends. I know all

18:23

the restaurants I want to go to. I know all the things I want

18:25

to do, but you got to leave in two days.

18:27

Yeah, yeah, and you have a show. When

18:29

I was a kid, I didn't care. We would just party,

18:32

go out, champagne, drugs, this

18:34

that, two days, do the gig, go

18:37

do the gig. You know, like just all one

18:40

thing was so when you're young, you

18:42

can do it, you know what I mean. I

18:44

don't feel that now. I'm really happy

18:46

being in the Black Crows and really fulfilling

18:49

and satisfying

18:51

and gratifying. But at a certain

18:53

point, I just want to take

18:55

my wife and go to Sicily and eat

18:58

linguini and clams and like you.

19:00

Know, drink whine and you know, read

19:02

Moby Dick.

19:03

For the third time or whatever. You know what I mean. I

19:05

just want to just be a part of everything

19:08

going on. There's lots of places I haven't traveled.

19:10

I haven't been to Africa. I've always wanted to go

19:12

to Africa, you know what I mean. That would

19:14

be nice to have some time to do that. And

19:17

because Africa is such a huge thing too,

19:19

you know, I'm really interested in West Africa.

19:22

I'd like to go to North Africa. Be

19:24

cool, to see the East Africa, be good.

19:26

You know what I mean, what interest you in West Africa?

19:28

I don't know. I think maybe it has something

19:31

to do just with the I mean, I

19:33

love North African music, but there's you

19:35

know a lot of those West African music

19:37

could be because of the

19:40

horrors of mankind and the horrors

19:42

of the slave trade, human beings

19:44

found a way somehow, through

19:47

the vileness of that

19:50

to communicate and share things

19:52

in art and music, cuisine. Yeah,

19:55

so many African parts of especially

19:58

in the Deep South, and people wouldn't

20:00

they don't even know they're they're they're

20:02

under educated anyway.

20:04

But with these things, you know, it's like, oh,

20:07

every Southern person and loves

20:10

the fried okra, but okra

20:12

came over from Africa, you know, right

20:15

before that, ochra came from India to Africa.

20:17

So just dumb things like that, Plants

20:19

and fruits, vegetables, natural

20:22

things and supernatural things

20:24

that were brought over that could never be extinged

20:26

with. And I just have some sort

20:29

of and I don't even know what it is, because I'm not obviously

20:31

that knowledgeable as other people,

20:34

but I can put a few things together and realize,

20:36

you know, so much of the music, singing,

20:39

rhythm things guitar things,

20:41

especially string things come from

20:43

a West African musical tradition that

20:45

represents like this African mysticism

20:47

and magic as well, that manifests

20:50

when people express themselves vocally

20:53

and rhythmically and with melody

20:55

and things, you know, like a simple

20:57

as something like a string guitar, And

20:59

that is something that would draw me there first,

21:02

be that in a first person

21:04

and see what it feels like for me as a real

21:07

outsider. Yeah, outside your

21:09

culture is important to me just because of whether

21:11

my dyslexia or just whatever

21:13

my tastes and my where I

21:15

would find the things in life that are

21:17

interesting that make me happy, things

21:20

that I can understand or help me

21:22

for things that I don't understand to understand, you

21:24

know, So a lot of that you have to kind of just vibe

21:26

out viscerally fine, and I

21:28

would be curious to see what it feels like.

21:31

Yeah. Wow, we've gone from like psychedelic

21:33

qal Houserd to like psychedelic.

21:35

Like Anthony Bourdain or some shit.

21:39

I've gone global.

21:40

Now call my agent. I'm down to do

21:42

this job.

21:43

That's amazing, man, I want to check out like

21:46

Robert Plant goes to rock

21:48

O Go.

21:49

Yeah, he loves the Sufi music

21:51

and the North African music.

21:53

Yeah.

21:53

And it's funny because I have this app where you can

21:55

listen to radio stations all over the world. But

21:58

it's like, wow, right on, man, I want to listen

22:00

to some like rad Cambodia music, It's like,

22:02

uh, it's Nicki Minaj like everywhere

22:04

else. I know.

22:06

That's that's kind of a bummer about radio.

22:08

I mean it's it's like, which is cool. I'm

22:10

not bagging Nicki mi nuts, but I'm like, I'm

22:12

thinking I'm gonna like get hip to some thing

22:15

I've never heard, some regional vibes

22:17

or whatever. And then it's like, oh, it's

22:20

the same shit they're playing here, is it that radio

22:23

app?

22:23

Like yeah, oh so cool.

22:25

But there's some in Morocco. And then there's a

22:27

certain kind of music that the horrors

22:29

of things. There was a slave trade in Africa

22:32

for a long time too, you know that within

22:34

in Africa, and they're bringing sub Saharan

22:37

Africans to North Africa. But a

22:39

great musical art form is born

22:41

from it that still exists today, and there's whole radio

22:43

stations that play it and they're basically

22:46

a living blues it's the same tradition

22:48

of like the pain and suffering

22:51

of the blues that these people brought with them

22:53

that still lives today and it's now celebrated

22:55

as rebel songs. Almost.

22:57

Yeah, it's like those North African like guitar

22:59

but I don't know how to pronounce their names, but like or

23:02

something, yeah, right.

23:04

I saw their first show in New York many years ago.

23:07

Really, I love that music, and

23:09

I love Sudanese music, and then

23:11

you go over. I love Persian

23:14

classical music, I love music

23:17

from Afghanistan, and I love Turkish

23:19

music. You know, I really have a

23:21

lot of diverse interest in

23:24

things like that.

23:26

After this last break, we'll be back with more

23:28

of Chris Robinson. We're

23:33

back with the rest of my conversation with Chris

23:36

Robinson within the

23:38

Crows. Like maybe, like with your brother,

23:40

for instance, does he have a similar musical

23:42

palette.

23:43

I think he has an appreciation. I don't think

23:45

his palette is as wide as mine, and

23:48

he would admit that I'm not. You know. He

23:50

always said, like growing up like Chris

23:53

would bring back way

23:55

more records than I would listen to, or some

23:57

I wouldn't be interested in. But I got to he

24:00

could be able to cherry pick what

24:02

he liked, and he loves classical

24:04

Indian music. I listened to like

24:07

Mesopotamium, Sheep the music

24:09

and stuff, you know what I mean. Like, I'm really into

24:12

a lot of different things.

24:13

Do you listen to that stuff more than like rock

24:15

and roll? Like you'd rather reach for that than a Stones record?

24:17

Yeah, I listened to all day

24:20

long, Like I like to start the morning

24:22

with something mellow. We'll

24:24

listen to a lot of Indian classical music,

24:27

or personally, I like to start

24:29

my mornings with the late great Ben

24:31

Webster or some think Lester

24:33

Young. I love the pres you know, but we also

24:36

love Rossan Rolling Kirk, and we love the Lonius

24:38

Monk, and we love Bobby Timm bud

24:41

Path. We listened to a lot of jazz. We

24:43

listened to a lot of blues, country,

24:46

R M B, funk, soul, rock and

24:48

roll, punk music, post punk music

24:51

like tronic

24:52

music, rossa music.

24:54

You know, Share your Spotify right now,

24:56

Share that Spotify trying to.

24:59

I don't have Spotify envy, man, you know,

25:02

Like I'm just obsessed,

25:04

you know what I mean? And I my obsessions

25:07

maybe made me way more difficult

25:10

as a youth in the music business because I also

25:13

associated a certain authenticity,

25:15

passion, and purity to my obsessions

25:17

and what I wanted to say. But I also

25:19

have a waking life with music that has nothing

25:22

to do with me making music or being a musician.

25:24

Yeah, those things are simpatico,

25:27

but I'm sure it's annoying. I'm

25:29

the guy who I get the car to drive

25:31

down to eat dinner and West Tli and

25:33

I'm like, hey, man.

25:34

Can I play the spot? Oh yeah,

25:36

in the car, dude. I got to skicked out of a sushi

25:38

spot one time because I

25:40

asked them to change the music. And

25:43

then they opened the same sushi spot

25:45

across town, so we tried to go there a year

25:47

and a half later. Turned the same lady with

25:49

something. She's like, you look familiar.

25:51

I was like, I don't know, I don't know. No, no, no, I

25:53

wasn't. So did you ask me to turn off the music one time?

25:56

I was like no, no, no, no, it must have been my brother.

25:58

I don't know. It wasn't me, Like, hey, hey, so

26:00

she's not coming in here.

26:02

You know.

26:03

They weren't happy, but I was like, just changed

26:05

it.

26:05

I could tell it wasn't like pre pro it's like it's all

26:07

you're on serious or some shit.

26:08

Just change the stage.

26:10

I saw a mask.

26:11

I'm just always you know what I mean. I've just been adventurous

26:13

and things I can access

26:16

what makes things interesting

26:18

to me. But I do that with with

26:20

a lot of art. I do that not with music,

26:22

but with literature, cinema, most

26:24

definitely comedy as well.

26:27

So it's all that going through your mind as you're writing

26:29

lyrics for The Crows or for your other groups.

26:32

I imagine, yeah, I imagine it's something.

26:35

It's all in there. But I think when it's

26:37

time to focus, like on writing a lyric

26:39

or whatever. I've written songs with other

26:41

people. I've written many songs on my own.

26:45

The thing that is the Black Crows

26:47

is Rich and ize contribution

26:50

together. You know, rich, whatever

26:52

he's coming from will play me something. There's

26:55

a lot of psychic energy involved in it as

26:57

well, and music is a great conduit

27:00

to open those kind of psychic channels.

27:02

And do you go into it with that intention, like do you have

27:04

to set out to do that or does it happen?

27:06

I think there's other musicians who can do the fuck

27:09

in math and know all the shit and they do another

27:11

thing. I've only ever been able to access

27:13

it this way. Got it is my

27:16

process because of however, because we didn't

27:18

learn music. We don't know shit

27:20

about music.

27:21

I don't read music. Rich doesn't read music.

27:24

But we know what it feels like and we

27:26

know what sounds right, and then you keep doing

27:28

that. Of course, through that your vocabulary

27:31

is bigger. But we maybe are using different words

27:33

than people who are more knowledgeable about the inner

27:35

workings and mathematics the arithmetic

27:38

of music. Yeah, and that it's escapes

27:40

us. But I think it's also in

27:42

our that makes it folk and that

27:44

makes you know what I mean, there's some sort of that's

27:47

why we look at it more and like

27:50

it's kind of magic. When a song happens

27:52

out of the blue. One minute, there's nothing, one

27:54

little thing like this, and then I get an

27:56

idea, and then that changes what

27:58

Rich is doing. And then it's all dictated

28:01

by whatever the vibe is that Rich

28:03

plays me. There's an emotional ingredient

28:06

to what he plays me, like our probably

28:08

the most famous song as She Talks to Angels. He

28:10

wrote that song. He was very young with the riff,

28:13

and then we probably didn't get to it till like a year

28:15

later when but we would be playing things

28:17

around mom and Dad's house.

28:19

He's like seventeen when he wrote that, Yes, I

28:21

would be nineteen.

28:22

So there's something about the way he pulls

28:25

that first inn and then that would just

28:27

put me in a place to write

28:29

a song with that kind of dark, romantic,

28:33

melancholy imagery. But we do

28:35

that today, and we do that, I think,

28:38

especially if we get around to where

28:40

we're going right now with this Happiness

28:42

Bastards record and stuff. I mean, I think that's

28:45

exactly what we've done with this. I mean, there's

28:47

a lot more rock and roll on it. There's

28:49

a lot more water under the bridge. We've

28:51

lived a lot personally. I'm

28:54

one of those people and I

28:57

have two children and we want everything

28:59

to be the best. But I'm also not

29:02

afraid of adversity, because I don't

29:04

think you should be afraid of something that you

29:06

have to find acceptance with, you

29:09

know what I mean, Because it doesn't matter who

29:11

you are, what you do, if

29:13

you do it to yourself, if someone's doing it to you,

29:15

if you have the means, if you don't have the means,

29:18

No one escapes adversity, and it

29:20

changes you know what I mean, how we deal with it.

29:23

The great energy and power of youth

29:25

and where we came from in rock and roll was the anger,

29:28

the fuck you part of it.

29:29

Yeah, even with each other.

29:31

Yeah yeah, but that boils into that. Yeah.

29:33

I mean it's like live fire,

29:35

you know, and like

29:37

but it's also a great you know,

29:39

if you can get that into the dude, and you can

29:42

get in the studio and get it on there. You

29:44

know, we weren't clever enough to do the math. We

29:47

were only clever enough to wear our emotions on

29:49

our sleeves.

29:49

Did your parents pick up on your guys's tension?

29:52

Yes, I mean, fuck, I mean

29:55

even more so probably the older we would

29:57

get, but they weren't around when it was like,

30:00

for some reason, you know, we he had his own

30:02

bedroom. I had my own bedroom when we lived in the suburbs,

30:04

and I had like a twin bed

30:07

and a desk, stereo whatever. Rich had

30:09

like a queen size Bendings room for some reason. I don't

30:11

know why we ever got that. But

30:13

it was funny because when we were kids and it would

30:15

be like if we started getting

30:18

annoyed, we'd have this game where we'd

30:20

both get on the bed, and he'd be like I'm

30:23

mad Max and I'm like I'm Snake pliskt

30:25

and then we would like who

30:27

could who would win in a fight? Mad

30:30

Max or Snake clisktting? Like whoever could?

30:32

Like fucking throw the other one off the bed? Was

30:34

like the Winnersten Snake always win in

30:36

that got a

30:38

batch on the eye, fucking cool outfit.

30:40

I was like, it's my motherfucker there,

30:42

you know, but like dumb show

30:45

like guy. And then we've said it before, but we fought

30:47

brothers fight, but we would never punch

30:49

each other in the face. We would hit each other bodyguards,

30:52

throws at each other, try to

30:54

strangle each other, nothing from

30:56

the neck up. It was weird. I

30:58

don't know that rule always.

30:59

Applied, unspoken, unwritten,

31:02

just.

31:04

As if that makes it like worse

31:07

than all the other cruel shit. I

31:09

love it, man, I love it.

31:10

Ye Snake doesn't need muscles though, just

31:13

being a pure badass is sometimes enough.

31:15

Yeah, they couldn't stop, you know what I mean? The

31:17

craziest come out from under the street. He gets

31:20

away from all of them.

31:21

Didn't matter. So great soundtrack

31:23

to that amazing soundtrack. John Comber

31:26

is always the favorite one is.

31:27

A movie he made called, uh

31:29

is it called the Prince of Darkness?

31:31

You know that movie?

31:32

I don't know that one part of the trilogy

31:34

he did that. I think that Escape

31:37

from New York, Prince of Darkness and maybe

31:39

they See or whatever. I think those are like a

31:41

trilogy he made. But Prince of Darkness

31:44

is a really cool movie. Like in this weird church

31:46

in Oakland or whatever is like where evil

31:48

is and like this liquid container and like

31:50

these people find it's really deep. Man.

31:53

But the sound that one's really I listened

31:55

to it all the time.

31:56

I missed that one. I like, I like Assault on Precinct

31:59

thirteen.

32:00

That soundtracks amazing, very

32:02

far ahead of his time, actually.

32:05

Way ahead of his time. It sounds like what's you know,

32:07

like a lot of like electronic composers

32:09

would now go for.

32:11

Is he from Kentucky? I think originally is

32:13

from Kentucky. It's like if Tangerine

32:15

Dream were from Kentucky. Yeah,

32:18

yeah, right, Tangerine Dream is from

32:21

Kentucky. Maybe they just call that like Pineapple

32:24

upside down cake Dreamers.

32:27

How do you feel with a new record? I think it sounds amazing.

32:30

Yeah, we're very happy. I think we were really

32:32

focused on what we wanted

32:34

the record to be touring the

32:36

last few years and doing the Shak Your Money Makers

32:38

show. At first, I was

32:41

a little bit I had a little

32:43

trepidation about it, just because I was like, Oh,

32:45

isn't that what other bands kind of get into sometimes,

32:48

is playing their most popular record

32:50

or whatever. Yeah, But once I thought about

32:52

it, and I thought, Yo, don't think about it,

32:54

just do it. This is important record to

32:57

you know, this is where it all begins for

32:59

us, and let's revisit it. Let's

33:01

see what happens if we remove

33:04

ourselves from the way of thinking

33:06

before. You know, why did I think that was dumb?

33:08

Maybe it's not. Maybe there's something there.

33:10

And I think part of where the Black Crows are

33:12

today is getting out of our way

33:14

and you know, don't think it, do it,

33:17

and then you'll have more information about what works

33:19

and what doesn't. And it was

33:21

fantastic, And that was

33:23

kind of the impetus to get us to like a real

33:26

focus, up tempo rock

33:29

and roll record that hits all the

33:31

notes. I think that we finally

33:34

didn't have the perspective to know what

33:36

the Black Crows sound

33:39

like, and to me, happens Bastards is

33:41

like an arrow pointed towards the future for

33:43

us of what the Black Crows could be.

33:45

And once we work with a guy like Jay Joyce

33:48

who produced the record, who's very successful,

33:51

popular producer. We've never really worked

33:53

with like a super producer like that. And

33:56

you know, we met so many talented people

33:58

and had so many great conversations. There's

34:00

just something about Jay. Well, first

34:02

off, we felt like this guy not

34:05

only can we get him, but he could get us,

34:07

and we're incapable of doing something

34:09

that we don't feel is sincere, sincere

34:12

to us of what we want to

34:15

do and how it sounds. And of

34:17

course when he comes on board, he starts to help

34:19

shape the songs as well, like, all

34:22

right, we have a discussion about what I

34:24

think the record should be. What's the concept

34:26

in a sense? I mean, you can't do it one hundred percent

34:29

because it's music and

34:31

things change, but if that's what we're going for,

34:33

and so he, you know, we have a bunch

34:35

of songs. He comes in, tells

34:37

us what he likes about these songs. We go back

34:40

work on some songs, write some new ones. But

34:42

again, as we're in the studio making the record,

34:45

it only took us two and a half weeks to make the

34:47

record.

34:47

That's quick.

34:48

Yeah, yeah, it has an energy. It

34:50

has to be that way. Like I said, we're

34:52

not the kind of people to what

34:54

are we doing, you know? And what are

34:56

we selling? What do we want people

34:59

to get from this? What are we

35:01

putting out there in the world. And we haven't made a record a long

35:03

time. Basically, you got to, like, you know,

35:05

put your money where your mouth is and if you're going to say

35:07

this is what you are, then it better fucking

35:10

sound like that. Yeah, And I made

35:12

a record in so long and we've been talking about

35:14

it. We've been proving it every night on tour

35:16

of like what the presentation is, what the vibes

35:18

are, what the band sounds

35:20

like. We're rich and I are, but we're

35:22

playing old songs and we're playing songs

35:25

people know, and now to do it with something

35:27

new. But after all the talk

35:30

about we're a rock and roll band, this

35:32

is where we're doing this. We're in a good

35:35

place, we're creative. But then

35:37

you have to do it.

35:38

Yeah, do you think you could go out and play

35:40

when you go out on tour. You're going on tour soon. Could

35:42

you play a lot of this album

35:45

or do you do you feel you have to do

35:47

a lot of the old stuff.

35:48

I mean, that's the purpose of the tour. And we've

35:51

gone from bigger venues

35:53

to a little smaller because we know, you

35:56

know, there's always going to be someone like this is our new single

35:58

and they go to the bathroom or whatever.

36:00

Yeah, well you want to play the new record,

36:02

like that's the point of this.

36:03

Yeah, Well, we feel that it's right there with the

36:06

best of everything we've done. And

36:08

as we move on from this new record and being

36:10

able to focus on it for this period, of course,

36:13

you know, we have to play she talks angels hard to

36:15

handle, jealous again twice. It's hard during

36:17

to my pride remedy. You know, we know

36:20

there's certain things wiser times, soul

36:22

sing and whatever. We know there's certain songs.

36:25

I think when we were younger, we were more arrogant

36:27

and we didn't want to play along. We wanted

36:29

to push people more

36:31

into we're more than

36:33

just these hit songs,

36:36

and that was our right and

36:39

we did it, and we

36:42

felt there was some importance there that

36:44

wasn't just ecocentric. Yeah,

36:47

but I think now we realize and that

36:49

oh we can say

36:51

the things we want to say, but we also have

36:54

to respect our audience and know that somebody's

36:56

going to be mad if you don't play. She talks dandel yea And

36:58

by the way I look at she talks

37:01

to angels or hard to handle or whatever. Now

37:03

in such a different light because I realize

37:06

how special it is to have those songs in your

37:08

catalog, you know, to have songs

37:11

that we play for people, but that after

37:14

almost soon it'll be getting there forty

37:16

years that are been in people's lives

37:18

and it's important to them too, and they and they

37:21

want to hear it and they want to hear you do the

37:23

best you can do. Yeah,

37:25

and make it special and have that

37:28

relationship with the audience.

37:30

Yeah, you said you feel like this is

37:32

like an arrow pointing to the future,

37:34

like you want to do more Black Crows music.

37:37

Yeah, you know, I mean, I know it

37:39

sounds weird to, like, you know, start

37:41

wrapping up my fifties and talking about

37:43

it, But then again, you know, there's so much

37:45

about what we are as

37:48

a band and as artist and as people.

37:50

It looks like one thing on the surface, but it's

37:53

not underneath, you know, in the same way that

37:55

it breaks my heart a little bit to hear like people

37:57

musicians say that they are

37:59

bored or listless or not inspired,

38:02

and I'm like, well, I don't

38:04

feel that way. And this record is really

38:07

even greater sort of proof

38:10

that I don't have to give

38:12

up on my passion, on my creativity.

38:15

I can put it all in the correct order

38:19

and we can continue to move on. We don't have

38:21

the same expectations that you had in nineteen

38:23

ninety five when you made a record. When you

38:25

know you're spending a million and a half dollars on

38:27

a record, they want you to go out and sell fucking ten

38:29

million records and have four hit singles,

38:32

and everybody's trying to do that, and the radio

38:34

is pumping your songs all day long. And that's

38:36

that's how it used to work. Kids used

38:39

to they play your records all the time on the radio,

38:41

and people will go buy your record. That's how

38:43

it works. Yeah, So even though that's gone,

38:46

that doesn't mean we don't see

38:48

or feel there is still

38:50

some importance in that. And I

38:52

don't feel that making albums

38:55

is that antiquated or

38:57

archaic or anything. People

38:59

say, you know, you go to fucking Amiba,

39:01

man, You're gonna wait in line to pay for your shit. It's

39:04

not like there's Humble Weeds blowing through

39:06

a record store or something.

39:07

It's true there are a fewer around,

39:09

but you know, like, yeah, go to Freak Beating

39:12

in the valley.

39:12

There's people in the way, you know, and they have great records

39:15

in there. It's like anything else. The media

39:17

doesn't cover it because it would take too

39:19

much imagination and interest in something that

39:21

isn't status driven, in something

39:24

that is collectively uh more

39:26

dynamic, that contains more soulful

39:29

information, or something of a cultural

39:32

reality that's not just reality

39:35

TV and going to the gym

39:37

or whatever. Yeah.

39:38

Yeah, and so you do feel like it's

39:40

an arrow pointed in the future. You want to make more

39:43

music, but you mentioned earlier, maybe

39:46

less touring at some point.

39:48

It's a deposition. I have to give you a day.

39:50

No, I'm just curious. No, I'm just curious.

39:52

Like it's like I don't know, like I'm

39:54

just trying to figure out where you're at

39:56

here answered a Grand

39:58

Journey played this back to you. Remember

40:01

you said it you Miranda

40:03

rights Man. Uh,

40:07

Yes, there will come a It's not in

40:10

the near future, but maybe you

40:13

know, give me another. I

40:16

don't know. It's hard to say, you know

40:18

what I mean, because getting a bit older is weird

40:20

because I don't feel older, but like, oh fuck

40:22

my knee hurt or whatever. Yeah,

40:24

okay, it doesn't dictate

40:27

my dreams and passions my

40:30

age, but no for

40:32

the near future, and I think, you know, it

40:34

would be pretty safe to say for the next decade

40:36

of life. I want to keep doing

40:38

it while I can. Yeah, that was

40:40

another thing about the record, like, let's make a fucking

40:43

rock and roll record while we can still fucking

40:45

rock and roll. Man, you know what I mean, Because at

40:47

a certain point it's gonna be like

40:49

you, thank you rock and rolling, but intensity

40:53

level comes down, which is totally normal

40:55

and fine, But rock and roll is specific

40:57

to a certain energy that you need. There's

40:59

all sorts of things that you can be passionate and

41:02

you can again have that

41:04

kind of emotion and there's

41:07

still a smoldering intensity to those things.

41:09

But I think if you want to get out, shake

41:11

your ass a little bit, put it on a rock and roll

41:13

show. Hopefully people still

41:16

get up and dance, and that's what it's

41:18

about.

41:18

Incredible man. Well, look, man, thanks

41:21

for thanks for taking the time. To talk. I love

41:23

the new album, Excited to see you play it, and

41:25

fun talking to you. Man, you got a lot to say. I love

41:27

it all right.

41:28

I appreciate that.

41:32

Thanks to Chris Robinson for hanging out and talking

41:34

about his career along with the Black Crows new

41:36

album, Happiness Bastards. You

41:39

can hear it along with our favorite songs from Chris

41:41

on a playlist at broken record podcast dot

41:44

com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel

41:46

at YouTube dot com slash broken record

41:48

Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes.

41:52

You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.

41:54

Broken Record is produced and edited by

41:57

Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric Sandler

41:59

and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is

42:01

Ben Tollinday. Broken Record

42:03

is a production of Pushkin Industries.

42:06

If you love this show and others from Pushkin

42:08

can are subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

42:11

Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

42:13

that offers bonus content and ad free listening

42:16

for four ninety nine a month. Look

42:18

for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions.

42:22

And if you like this show, please remember to

42:24

share, rate and review us on your podcast

42:26

app. Our theme Music's back Anny Beats.

42:28

I'm justin Richmond,