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yourself some cash back this holiday season. Honey

1:26

was my friend. We

1:29

worked together often on long

1:32

afternoons, and after everything

1:34

had already been shelled and dusted,

1:37

and customers were few and far between,

1:40

and we would talk. My

1:42

Anya grew up in a grim and

1:44

violent era. She

1:47

welcomed Anjanka into her

1:49

heart, into her soul, out

1:51

of hurt and rage. She

1:54

and Anjanka were one, and

1:56

as one, they sought vengeance

1:58

for hundreds of women. and girls who

2:01

had been betrayed or hurt. There

2:05

was little room for nuance back in those days

2:08

and it took generations for Anya to

2:10

learn there was a different way of living.

2:14

So if you are anything like the

2:16

Anya I knew, you are

2:19

not the same woman who first

2:21

merged with that vengeance team. Trust

2:24

in who you've become because

2:27

it's what you choose to do now. It

2:30

matters. Hello

2:37

and welcome to Buffering the

2:39

Vampire Slayer, a podcast where

2:42

sometimes a baby is asleep

2:44

in the next room and we are listening to and discussing every episode

2:50

of Slayer's Buffyverse

2:52

Story one by one spoiler free and on the tail

2:55

of seven whole seasons of

2:57

coverage of Buffy the Vampire

2:59

Slayer featuring one original

3:02

song by one of the most popular songs of

3:05

all time. This is

3:07

the song of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. We are the first

3:10

to hear the song of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. One

3:12

by one spoiler free and

3:14

on the tail of seven whole

3:16

seasons of coverage of Buffy the

3:18

Vampire Slayer featuring one original song

3:21

for every episode and

3:23

sexual attention awards for every

3:25

episode and just making a

3:27

list now, the

3:29

beautiful friendship. One

3:34

best friend, one second best friend. I

3:37

am the best friend in Anya and Young. And

3:47

by default, of course, that would make

3:49

me the second best friend, Kristen Russo. I

3:51

would really love to know who's in the

3:53

first slot, honestly. Don't you chew on that

3:55

one. Tell me who comes ahead of me. Is

3:57

it John Mark? editor

4:00

of the podcast, John Mark Nelson. I'm

4:02

not at liberty to say. I

4:05

want to remember. There are many, many

4:08

contenders. Um, first

4:10

of all, this is the one

4:12

where will the sunlight spell actually

4:14

work? Is Drusilla about to get

4:16

dusted in the sun? Are

4:19

pup yanka, what did I name

4:21

them? Jaspa yanka,

4:24

Jaspa yanka. Are

4:26

they going to get separated? Um,

4:29

all of that and more, but what I really want to tell

4:31

you honestly is that, uh, the reason

4:33

that Jenny was so quiet at the intro, yes,

4:35

there is a sleeping baby in her house across

4:37

the wall, but for the last

4:40

few weeks, something insane has happened

4:42

where I was talking off mic,

4:44

but the mic was on about a

4:46

gift that we were maybe going to get for

4:48

our editor, John Mark

4:50

Nelson. And, um, I made

4:53

a joke about like, Oh, what will

4:55

we get for John Mark? Because

4:57

I knew he'd be listening to edit

4:59

and Jenny forgot. And she said, weren't

5:01

we talking about getting him a bottle

5:04

of, and then realize that he'd be

5:06

listening. And for some reason said sperm.

5:13

I'm just trying to throw him off the

5:15

sand. We've gross. So we've

5:17

been, um, really hamming

5:19

it up before the actual podcast.

5:22

It joking about this beautiful

5:24

glistening bottle of sperm that

5:26

we're going to give John Mark for Christmas. And,

5:30

um, right before we counted in

5:32

today with, I did

5:35

not pre-plan it at all, but I

5:37

just started singing. Jaws of sperm, Jaws

5:39

of sperm in the jingle bell cadence.

5:42

And Jenny laughed. She honked as

5:44

a matter of fact, she laughed

5:46

so hard and then panning. And

5:49

I think that Jenny, your math is that

5:51

if you do something really loud,

5:54

then if you're just like extra quiet for

5:56

a little while, it'll like even out the

5:58

loud thing that happened before. That's

6:01

my theory, yes. Anyway,

6:03

you know, perhaps you know everything. Now

6:06

you know everything. Perhaps someday

6:08

we'll give you the blooper reel

6:10

of all of the off-mic torture

6:12

that we've put poor John Mark

6:14

Nelson through for absolutely

6:16

no good reason whatsoever. Anyway,

6:24

of all the people I got at Jars of Sperm

6:26

for this year, John Mark

6:28

is not among them. Honestly, nothing sits

6:31

so nicely under a tree than

6:33

a beautifully wrapped jar

6:37

of sperm. This

6:40

episode was written and

6:42

directed by Amber Benson and

6:44

Christopher Golden and co-directed and produced by Casey

6:46

Weyland. It originally aired

6:48

in a full-season binge drop on October

6:51

12, 2023. All

6:53

right. We

6:55

only have one left after this, Jenny. Big

6:57

thoughts on this episode, big thoughts in

7:00

general before we dive into the scene by

7:02

scene. Patty? My

7:05

only big thought is like out of my

7:07

way, let me get

7:09

to the next episode because I want to know what happened. Yeah.

7:15

I think my big thought on this episode, because I've

7:18

been talking to Big Talk about once

7:20

I got to seven and then things started really

7:22

picking up for me and I was tearing through

7:24

eight and nine. I have a feeling that nine

7:26

is going to be more of a banger for

7:28

me because I did

7:30

not remember that there was as much

7:33

exposition in eight. In

7:35

my mind, since I remembered just

7:37

shuttling through the last few, I was like,

7:39

oh, maybe the reason was that the

7:42

heavy exposition lift was done in

7:44

the first five or six. Then

7:46

I was just flying through. I

7:48

felt free of it a bit in the last

7:50

episode. Again,

7:53

it's a different listen when you sit and

7:55

you take notes, so there's that. This episode

7:57

felt heavy. heavy

8:00

again with exposition and some of it

8:03

that I wasn't really sure why we were

8:05

getting another time. Because

8:08

sometimes I panic, Jenny, because I have

8:10

talked about a thing and then I

8:13

hear it again in the exposition pieces of

8:15

the episode and I'm like, did I say

8:17

that that was the reason before we learned

8:19

it or did we learn it and we're

8:21

learning it again? And I don't even know

8:23

at this point, but I like this

8:25

episode. There does seem to be a rule being observed where

8:28

it's like if you say something once you have to say

8:30

it twice, to have

8:32

the listener absorb it. Which

8:35

is interesting because when we like

8:37

knit, not nitpick, but when we

8:39

kind of fine tooth comb a

8:41

television episode, it's less,

8:45

at least in our experiences of Buffy and

8:47

the Exiles, it's less common for something to

8:49

be repeated. I don't

8:51

have a lot of experience with something being

8:54

repeated and maybe there is

8:57

a perceived need to

8:59

do that because you don't have the visual cues.

9:01

Maybe the feeling is like

9:03

your ears need to hear something twice sometimes to make

9:06

sure you capture it. So I'm

9:08

not sure. But my

9:11

big thoughts on this episode are I enjoyed

9:13

elements of it. We opened

9:15

with the Giles clip, Giles talking

9:18

about Anya and sort of her journey

9:20

as a vengeance demon. And I think that that

9:23

was one of my favorite parts of this whole episode.

9:25

And we can talk more to that when we get

9:27

to that part. But for now, are

9:29

we done forever with Spike's

9:31

monologues? It's

9:34

starting to seem like

9:36

we are. Unless

9:38

the next episode begins with him

9:41

monologuing from outside the magic

9:44

box. Honestly, I'm reminding

9:46

us of everything that happened in this episode in

9:48

the next episode right before they bust the door

9:50

down. Instead,

9:53

we get Anya and Anjanka

9:55

and Jasper, who realize

9:58

that the longer they that feeling when

10:00

the longer you stay merged with someone the

10:02

deeper your merging becomes, you know? Queer

10:04

culture at its final culture. To

10:07

be certain. Yeah, they're

10:09

talking about the merger. We're inside

10:11

Anya's mind. That is where the script places

10:13

us. And Anya, Anjaka, and Jasper are,

10:16

yes, Jasper in

10:18

his limited abilities. They're

10:20

all conferring about the

10:22

merger while Giles and

10:25

Clem, we imagine, are working on things

10:27

outside. Anya's

10:30

being very blunt

10:33

and maybe

10:35

a little self-absorbed. And Anya says, no

10:37

wonder you've been single for so long,

10:39

to which Anya replies, I

10:42

am not single. I am without a host by

10:44

design, which of course would

10:47

be my Tinder bio if I got on Tinder

10:50

right now. I

10:53

think the kids are on hinge these days,

10:55

Jenny. Oh, whatever. I mean, who can, A,

10:57

who can keep up? Yeah. B,

10:59

I'm a happily married man. I'm

11:02

trying to, I don't, for no reason, I was trying to

11:05

think of the combination of Tinder and hinge and I was

11:07

like Tinder? Hinder? Hinger?

11:11

Hinger? My

11:14

favorite part of this Anya-Anjanka-Jasper

11:16

scene is when Anya

11:18

totally drags Anjanka and is like the fact

11:20

that you have the power to make a

11:22

body for yourself and you chose one that

11:24

looks like mine? I

11:27

mean, given the option, wouldn't

11:29

so many of us choose

11:32

to look like Anya? I just thought it

11:34

was a good burn. Not the best burn

11:36

in the episode though. I cannot wait to get to the

11:38

best burn, Jenny. Anya

11:43

accuses Anjanka of wanting to be human.

11:45

Anjanka accuses Anya of missing the power

11:47

of being a vengeance demon. These two

11:50

sound like they are gonna

11:53

merge any second. Remerge?

11:56

You know, re-merge and re-merge.

11:58

Yeah. Do you know what that is? the

12:00

word blo-viating means because it's said

12:02

and I didn't look it up because I

12:04

figured maybe you would know, but I do love

12:06

the word, whatever it means. It's

12:09

one of those words that I feel like I know

12:11

what it means when I hear

12:13

it, but that, okay, good, I

12:15

was right. Talk

12:18

at length, blo-viate, talk at length, especially

12:21

in an inflated or empty way. It kind

12:23

of like sounds like what

12:25

it is. Like as a podcaster,

12:27

I am a want to blo-viate.

12:30

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

12:33

We talk at length for

12:35

a very good culturally

12:38

important vital

12:40

reason. Okay,

12:43

so back in the magic box,

12:45

Giles and Clem, just like you

12:47

suspected, Jenny, are talking

12:49

about making summoning circles to get these

12:51

three separate from each other. We get,

12:54

we get a, and Clem says

12:57

he's repeating, or you know, it's called out that

12:59

Clem is repeating this bit. This I'm

13:01

here for, Clem's obsession about talking

13:03

about the fly and always underlining

13:05

that he's talking about the Jeff,

13:07

he is talking about the Jeff

13:09

Goldblum version, not the Vincent

13:12

Price version, or is it the other way around?

13:14

He does need to repeat himself more. Yes,

13:17

he means the Jeff Goldblum one. Yeah.

13:20

And Jenny, I don't know, I can't make any promises

13:23

about my time this season. It is, tis

13:26

the season, whatever that means. And perhaps

13:28

I thought, what if it means that I

13:31

pick a couple, what if there is time for me

13:33

to pick a couple of nights to hang out in

13:35

the discord and watch both of these versions of the

13:37

fly because I've never seen the fly before. Oh, man.

13:40

The fly is, yeah. I

13:43

saw the Jeff Goldblum one when I was much too

13:45

young to have seen it and it haunted

13:47

me for much of my youth and I will

13:50

not rewatch it. I haven't. Even though watching it

13:52

now would probably, it would just be probably pretty

13:54

silly. I have no idea what it's about.

13:56

I imagine someone becomes a fly. That's

13:59

what my guess is. So a

14:01

man becomes a fly. I

14:04

think if I remember correctly he's trying to

14:08

perfect teleporting, which

14:10

requires de-atomization

14:13

of the human body and re-atomization,

14:16

but uh-oh, what if there was

14:18

a fly in the transporter when

14:20

you press the button? Okay

14:23

that's fun. Yeah, it's just,

14:25

it's uh, Mulder was watching the fly

14:27

earlier in our X-Files coverage of season one

14:29

and now Clem keeps talking about it so

14:31

I'm just like, it seems like the

14:33

universe. Oh, Mulder was watching the Vincent Price

14:35

one? Yeah. Yeah. So

14:38

I'd like to know, I'd like to be able to

14:40

comment on which one was more powerful for me and

14:42

uh, why. Alright,

14:45

um, listen, Giles comes back,

14:47

he has the book. Great job Giles. Clem

14:50

is hanging out with Jasper. Poof, Giles is

14:52

back with the Kurgan book. What luck. He

14:55

tells us a bunch of stuff. I

14:57

have it bulleted. I don't, if you have it

14:59

bulleted please go ahead, but if, if. Kurgan

15:03

was the youngest watcher ever ordained by

15:05

the council. His name was stricken from

15:07

their records. Kurgan worked

15:09

with a slayer named Berenice who

15:12

collaborated with a white witch and

15:15

used her blood to separate Kurgan's body from

15:17

the grimoire. His body died free but his

15:19

soul stayed in the book. Blah.

15:23

How the hell is going on here? How

15:25

does a body die free if the soul

15:27

is in the book? That's the thing that

15:30

like really threw me. I was like, isn't

15:32

what we all care about generally speaking

15:35

with narratives about death the

15:37

soul? And

15:40

then there's also talk of a mind.

15:42

Like there's a body, mind, and soul

15:44

all involved in this lore which

15:46

is just a little bit confused. It's

15:49

confusing to me, but the Berenice stuff

15:51

does seem important by the time we get

15:53

to the end of this episode. I also

15:55

thought, would the Watchers

15:57

Council have really kicked this guy out? just

16:00

because he was getting a little close to dark

16:03

magic, because as I remember it, Giles,

16:06

his nickname was Ripper. He

16:08

was not erased from any of the history books.

16:11

Right, right, but it's unclear when

16:13

Giles joined the

16:15

Watchers Council. I kind of

16:18

got the impression that he had a

16:20

rowdy youth. Oh, and then? And

16:22

then reformed and joined the Watchers Council. I

16:26

don't know if that- I don't think that it's ever directly

16:29

addressed in the show. It might

16:31

be somewhere in the

16:33

canonical comics or elsewhere. Well,

16:36

lucky for you, Jenny, someone listening knows and

16:38

they can email us. I know, I

16:40

can hear them emailing us right now. Click any clock.

16:42

Click any clock. Click any clock. Click any clock. Also,

16:46

Kurgan, so we already know

16:48

about Kurgan's research. He's trying to figure out

16:50

this whole sunlight vampires relationship, you know. Over

16:53

here we study one orgasm plus

16:55

true love equals negative one soul kind

16:57

of math, but Kurgan, he wants to

17:00

understand the math equation when you put

17:02

vampires and sunlight in the bin. Sure,

17:04

sure, sure. But he, the reason, and

17:06

this was the thing I was worried

17:09

that maybe I accidentally spoiled, because I

17:11

think last episode I talked about vampires

17:14

maybe not being able to touch the book.

17:17

I don't know if we knew it. No, but that

17:19

was something, that's something that's been in the mix. It

17:21

has, okay. That was identified as the reason that they

17:23

got Terra. Terra. I remember

17:25

who talks about it earlier in

17:28

the series, but someone

17:30

mentions it, but then we get it again. Yeah.

17:32

In this episode from a different angle. Yeah, and the reasoning

17:34

is that he thinks that, he

17:37

casts the spell that will dust a

17:39

vampire because he thinks vampires will find

17:41

out what he's doing and they won't

17:43

want to be quote, tamed. Vampires, the

17:45

Miley Cyrus of their time, simply

17:48

can't be tamed. So to keep them

17:50

away, he puts a curse on this

17:52

book. And that's flawless. Not

17:54

to like, whatever. I mean, we're here to talk

17:57

about the lore. We're here to talk about the

17:59

story. I'm obviously both of

18:01

us are confused about the divide between

18:03

body, mind and soul in this with

18:05

the idea that his body died clean

18:08

and free. But I'm also confused about

18:10

this moment in

18:12

this scene where it's declared

18:14

that the since his

18:16

soul is in the book,

18:18

the grimoire is kurgen. Because

18:21

by that math, the orb of thessula

18:23

was angel. Like if a

18:25

soul is trapped inside of a thing, it

18:28

doesn't make the thing. I

18:30

don't know if this thing has words inside

18:32

of it. So like that's the line. It

18:34

seems like he is able to seep

18:38

into people who use the book. Whereas

18:42

angel soul was just trapped in the orb.

18:44

Right. Kurgan soul can walk

18:46

around a bunch, do what it wants

18:48

if given the right environment. Make its

18:50

own notes. Yeah. Well, I'm

18:53

not becomes key to the rest of this

18:55

episode. Cordelia

18:57

and Indira return. Hooray. I

19:01

love the doorbell jingling and Clem saying, I hope

19:03

that isn't someone we have to fight. Honestly,

19:06

a moment for James Leary truly

19:09

because we

19:11

talk about Leia as Indira a

19:13

bunch and like the talent that

19:16

she has and how it integrates

19:18

into this. She is one

19:20

of, I think, the characters that can

19:22

deliver exposition in a way where it never feels

19:24

like that. James's character,

19:26

you know, Clem doesn't have like

19:28

a huge expositional lift, but his

19:31

work is so good. He

19:35

just makes me laugh all the time. And when

19:37

I listen, sometimes my like litmus test for things

19:39

too is when I listen with my current wife,

19:41

you know, she's not really paying. She

19:43

has no stake in the game. She just needs to

19:45

make a podcast about it. She's just casually listening, paying

19:47

attention to whatever she wants to pay attention to. And

19:50

it's always Indira's remarks

19:53

and Clem's remarks that she like

19:55

vocally responds to, you know, and

19:57

laughs out loud too. Which

20:00

is how I feel like, I

20:02

don't know, the measurement of their power inside

20:04

of this universe is pretty big. So,

20:07

Fonte's a Clemhead, I love it. Yeah,

20:10

yeah, totally. Okay, meanwhile, at

20:12

Drusilla's lair, I'm

20:15

confused. Terra's draining a witch, and

20:18

Spike is like, you enjoy this, don't you?

20:21

And Drew is like, be nice, Spike. And I'm like, why?

20:25

Aren't they all supposed to be evil? So

20:27

why would anybody care if somebody

20:30

thought Terra enjoyed draining a witch, and

20:33

why is Drew saying that's

20:35

mean? I'm just so

20:37

confused about this moment. Yeah, it's

20:39

a little bit, I

20:41

wish, because, okay, the word throuple is

20:43

written into the script. It's

20:45

actually spelled, I guess I can't really declare if it's spelled

20:47

wrong, but I always thought throuple had the O-U,

20:50

just like, couple. But in the script,

20:52

it's just the U, throuple. Anyway,

20:55

the word throuple is said out loud in the

20:57

show, and I kind of wish, let me tell

20:59

you when you just Google the word throuple.

21:06

Sorry, let me just add dictionary to the

21:08

search. Yeah,

21:11

we're showing both spellings

21:13

as being accepted. Okay, all right. I

21:16

guess I just, to your point,

21:18

Spike has been resurrected, he's evil.

21:21

He is returning to Drusilla.

21:23

Drusilla is kind of being an asshole to Terra,

21:25

so I kind of wish either

21:28

we went clean and hard,

21:30

sorry, I didn't mean to

21:32

phrase it like that, on

21:35

Drew just fucking over Terra, and that's

21:37

it, right? And we didn't get any

21:39

of this wishy-washy stuff from

21:41

Drew. She does not feel like a

21:44

wishy-washy character at all to me, or

21:47

that we just canned the whole competition

21:49

thing right at the outset and

21:54

just had evil be the shared goal, and

21:56

so there's not as much of a like,

21:58

you just kept her bed warm. like

22:01

battling, you know, like just save

22:04

that for another piece. I don't know. I don't know.

22:06

I haven't worked it all out, but it just, I

22:09

think the biggest thing that rubs me the wrong way

22:11

is that in this scene, like you said, Drusilla is

22:13

sort of like, be nice to Terra. And

22:16

Terra is like, you just locked me

22:18

in a dungeon. And I'm like, exactly.

22:20

What are we doing, Drusilla? Yeah. And

22:22

then Spike takes this sort of like, moralistic

22:25

or like, at the

22:27

very least, like sort of hottie position

22:29

that like, Terra is like addicted to magic,

22:31

as we all know, magic and drugs and

22:33

sex and some other stuff. Don't worry about

22:35

it. And rock and roll, of course.

22:39

But Spike's reliance on blood is

22:41

like survival oriented and therefore fine.

22:44

Yeah. But

22:48

hey, they're running low on witches. So Terra is going

22:50

to have to make do with what she's had. We

22:54

have McDonald's at home. Drusilla

22:57

kind of challenges her and is like, well, you're

22:59

going to have to drain Anya. It's going to

23:02

come to that. And Tara's like, yeah, I'm fine

23:04

with it. Can't wait to see her empty

23:06

husk. And Drusilla is like, I should

23:08

have always trusted you. And I'm like,

23:10

I don't feel like that is warranted,

23:13

Drusilla. You can say whatever you

23:15

want. But until I see the empty husk of

23:17

the empty husk, show me the empty husk, show

23:19

me the empty husk you want to see in

23:22

the world. You don't get my trust until I see

23:24

the empty husk. That's how it is to

23:26

date Kristen Russo. You

23:29

don't get my trust until I

23:31

see the empty husk is a

23:34

shirt I would like to put it on

23:36

a shirt or a hat. I'll take either. Okay.

23:42

All right. But Tara does mention

23:44

here that she thinks that Cordelia was

23:46

let out of her cell by Indira.

23:48

So Tara doesn't trust Indira. Right. Drew

23:51

should have always trusted Tara. Spike

23:54

is looking down as nose to everyone.

23:56

Spike just wants to have sex with Drusilla. Okay.

23:58

So in the training room behind

24:02

the magic box. shop. Uh,

24:05

Cordelia and Indira are sparring with

24:07

Bakken, which are wooden sparring swords.

24:09

And Kristen, I'm on a website

24:12

right now. bakken.com. That

24:15

sells, that sells Bakken.

24:18

And I was wondering if you would approve

24:20

a company expense of

24:23

two Bakken for me and two Bakken

24:25

for you. Oh, you need two Bakken

24:28

each? Well, no,

24:30

but I figured we

24:32

live four hours apart. So we won't always get to spar with

24:34

each other. Oh, so we'll always have a set of Bakken. Yeah.

24:38

Yeah. Uh, how much is one

24:40

Bakken, Jenny? The low, low price

24:42

of $24.99 for the entry level model.

24:46

So that's 50 bucks each for repair.

24:48

Sure. I can, uh, I can approve

24:50

the cost for some holiday Bakken, if

24:53

you will. Holiday

24:57

Bakken. Bakken around the Christmas tree.

25:01

Bakken's placed on the chimney with care. That's

25:04

right. Yeah. Great. Um,

25:07

I'm so glad that this happened. We're gonna,

25:09

I'm gonna watch the fly for the first time and both

25:12

of us are gonna have two Bakken apiece and

25:14

both of our wives will be so annoyed with

25:16

us constantly because of our Bakken. Mm,

25:18

actually the majority of the swords and knives

25:21

in my house are Jess's.

25:23

You better not, you better not fight

25:25

her. Hers are metal. No, I would

25:27

never. You're no, I need two Bakken

25:29

so that she can, can Bakken with

25:32

you and yeah, they

25:35

always say Bakken the one.

25:39

If you can't Bakken with the one with

25:41

whom you podcast Bakken with

25:43

the one you're with

25:46

and love, is

25:49

that what they always say? Sometimes

25:52

I feel like the, like less we

25:54

have to talk about content wise, the

25:56

better the podcast becomes. You know what I mean?

26:01

Maybe better for me anyway.

26:04

I'm having a great time. Okay,

26:08

so Bakken, we've covered it. Sean

26:10

Connery, I've never seen this movie.

26:12

It's called The Name of the

26:14

Rose. I looked it up. I

26:16

couldn't even successfully Google. I

26:19

will say, as I'm picturing

26:21

the sound of the swords, I

26:24

know this can't be why they're called Bakken, but I feel

26:26

like they go like, bak, bak, bak, bak, when they strike

26:28

each other. That's the sound

26:30

of two wooden barring swords. Honestly, it's also

26:32

the sound of a cartoon chicken. I know,

26:36

but it's not a sunbok,

26:38

it's a spoken bok. I feel like chickens

26:40

are more like bok. Okay,

26:43

this is a very cool podcast thing.

26:48

Okay, so just so you know, I found the

26:50

Sean Connery movie by Googling Sean Connery Nuns. So

26:53

I don't know, maybe there's multiple movies with

26:55

Sean Connery and Nuns, and this is not referring

26:57

to the name of the rose. But

27:01

I guess what we are to take

27:04

from this scene are a few things.

27:06

One, Indira's pretty fucking strong. I mean,

27:08

Cordelia has been a slayer for like 112 years in this universe.

27:13

She has stayed alive through everything.

27:15

So the fact that Indira has been

27:17

a slayer for a hot minute and

27:20

bests Cordelia, I mean, I don't think

27:22

that she could kill Cordelia in

27:24

a battle, but the fact that she gets

27:26

Cordelia right at the jump is

27:28

pretty incredible and surprises the shit out

27:30

of Cordelia. And

27:33

we learned that Indira has done some martial arts training

27:35

and that she did a lot of dance. And

27:38

so the combination of those two things has also

27:40

helped her. Yeah,

27:43

she's not only, you know, pretty naturally

27:45

strong and trained in

27:47

the fighting arts, but she can also give

27:49

the vampires the old razzle dazzle. It comes

27:52

right down to it. Fuckin'

27:55

Uber Vamp. What's his name? Why can't I

27:57

remember his name? Surikhan. Surikhan. We'll never see

27:59

it. endear coming they're gonna have a

28:01

showstopping number when we get into their

28:04

battle scene yeah I'm seeing

28:06

top half I'm seeing

28:08

Kane's I'm seeing a little

28:10

soft shoe they

28:14

also talk about endear is fear that

28:16

perhaps the spell worked this is you

28:18

know giving us the listener

28:20

the we because we did actually talk

28:22

about it on our own in episode

28:24

7 what if it works she

28:26

does have magic why wouldn't it have worked so this

28:29

is really underlining what if it worked

28:31

I whatever I would prefer

28:33

to just go in being like but what if

28:35

it works then to even have them wonder about

28:38

it I kind of like the idea of just

28:41

accidentally finding out that it fucking

28:43

worked but I don't know and

28:46

then there's a conversation about is spike bad did

28:49

spike spike bad endear

28:52

is like you spared

28:54

him critical no I

28:57

was aiming for his

28:59

home bullshit cordelia ball

29:01

and also it should she should have aimed for

29:04

his back like I don't think that cordelia in

29:06

this moment should have to defend the fact that

29:08

she didn't kill him even if she's

29:10

doubting him I don't think that's a reason

29:12

to just decide he's like they don't have

29:15

information enough on either side of this

29:19

you know situation is only denying it

29:21

to herself really yeah okay that's fair

29:24

so cordelia says something to

29:26

make endear a think cordelia

29:28

is sending endear a back to her reality

29:30

when this is all said and done so

29:32

long as she lives and endear is like

29:35

what gives and cordelia

29:37

has this moment which I really like so I'd love to

29:39

play the sound clip so we can all listen in together

29:42

being a slayer means you're stronger faster

29:44

and more durable you are not

29:47

immortal if you're still

29:49

breathing when this fight is over then

29:52

you go back to your world

29:54

where there's hundreds of girls just

29:56

like you when

29:58

you train you train You

30:00

get smarter, you find the most badass

30:03

player in your world and you fight her.

30:08

Only when you can hold your own against her,

30:10

beat her. Like

30:12

it's nothing. Only then, if

30:15

you still want to come back here and

30:17

help me take care of my world, I'd

30:19

be damn grateful to have you. Okay,

30:22

so tell me why you're

30:24

into this. I

30:26

think I like that Cordelia... What

30:29

I feel in my heart is

30:31

that Cordelia isn't really saying like,

30:33

go back and prove

30:35

to me that you're the best. Prove

30:37

to me that you can fight and battle

30:40

with the strongest people in your reality and

30:42

come back. I think that

30:44

Cordelia knows that Indira is

30:46

an incredibly strong player and

30:48

I think she wants her to be in

30:50

an environment where she can do these things

30:52

and then come back. And I also think

30:54

that it's Cordelia's way of saying like, I

30:57

want to keep you alive because

31:00

I think that Indira's odds of

31:02

surviving the kind of battles that

31:04

Cordelia seems to be fighting in her reality

31:08

and surviving are a

31:10

lot higher if she does these things.

31:15

Go and train and train and train, get better.

31:18

Use the people around you that are

31:20

strong and can fight like you to get

31:22

to be the best at your craft and

31:24

then fucking come back here and we will

31:27

just rip shit up. But

31:30

I don't know. Okay, I totally hear you.

31:34

Especially on her wanting Indira

31:37

to really train up so that

31:39

because Cordelia might care about Indira doesn't want

31:41

her to die, but this just

31:43

seems like a horrible mismanagement of resources.

31:46

One reality has limitless slayers. One

31:48

reality has one slayer who honestly,

31:50

no offense to anybody, but is

31:52

not getting any younger. And

31:58

we don't have any data on... the

32:02

impact of aging on a slayer. But

32:04

we do have data on impact

32:06

aging on not being a slayer and it's

32:09

pretty rough. Exactly. And I'm just saying, like, I'm

32:11

going to guess that, especially

32:13

because slayers don't tend to live

32:15

past like their late teens or

32:17

early twenties, she's

32:20

probably not, you know, felt like

32:22

you're getting stronger or more flexible.

32:25

Yeah. Let

32:28

Indira help and honestly

32:31

bring some of her friends. Honestly,

32:34

funnel a couple of these slayers over to this reality.

32:36

Also, can't they just tell her where to find her size?

32:41

Oh my God, that's such a good point. Why

32:43

not? Maybe this

32:45

is Cordelia's actual plan. She's like, go back to your

32:47

reality. Make friends with a

32:49

bunch of other slayers. Bring them back here. Yeah.

32:58

All right. So I love that Indira

33:00

is like, you like me. You can't

33:02

help it. You want to be my

33:04

mentor and train me. Honestly,

33:06

just more incredible delivery

33:09

from Leia because it is

33:11

perfect. It's perfect. OK,

33:16

so back at the

33:18

magic box, we

33:20

hear that Cordelia growled at Clem, and

33:23

this is wonderful for two reasons. One,

33:26

because it happened in two because Giles

33:28

is like, based on my math of

33:30

meeting two Cordelias, it does seem to say growl.

33:32

I like this. I

33:34

celebrate it. Clem

33:40

really hung up on a

33:42

lot of retired snacks. I

33:45

know. I was thinking, like, do you think we didn't ask them? We

33:47

should have. But I was wondering

33:49

if like Chris or Amber or Casey or someone

33:51

else in the room just happens to be

33:54

like a collector of retired snack

33:57

items because it's such a bizarre thing. Like

34:01

twice we have these like very

34:03

specific references to things that have

34:06

gone away. Why didn't we ask

34:08

them, Jenny? Horrible journalist.

34:10

I regret it. Okay,

34:12

so this is where you already, I think, referenced this

34:14

Jenny. Giles says that he thinks that Kurgan may be

34:17

the one that, oh, this is my favorite burn. Giles

34:20

is saying that he thinks Kurgan is the one that

34:22

made these notes and he says the notes

34:25

Tara made inside it are very

34:27

precise and powerful, which leads me

34:29

to believe they're not really

34:32

Tara's. Giles! This

34:36

struck me as

34:39

well, especially because

34:42

they're not even from the same reality.

34:44

He doesn't even know this. He

34:46

doesn't. But

34:49

it was like written as though they almost

34:52

didn't realize what a burn it was. Like

34:54

it didn't even feel like Giles, like it

34:56

didn't feel like anyone was. The notes were

34:58

good. The actual ad made to conclude that

35:01

Tara could not possibly have made that. Like

35:06

what? Um,

35:09

I'm, yeah, I'm shocked. But

35:12

I do have a giant LOL written in

35:14

the script because, wow, ouch.

35:18

Obviously this is not what was meant and

35:21

we can extrapolate just based

35:23

on like the vibes that the

35:26

intention was, you know, that there's

35:29

something going up. Maybe it's something

35:31

watery. Yeah, it would be,

35:33

but that was, that there's such an easy

35:35

fix for that. Just have Giles have seen the

35:37

notes and some of the words and stuff

35:39

are oldie timey words,

35:41

you know, just like, yeah, yeah.

35:44

Or like Kurgan's handwriting. Yeah. Which

35:46

he, which he saw samples of

35:48

in the, uh, the said

35:50

the bomb worker. Yeah. Or like

35:52

all of the notes in the

35:54

margins sound like

35:57

this. That's

36:01

my favorite option. Um, cool. I

36:05

love it. Um, okay,

36:08

Clem and Giles are talking through Spike's

36:10

possible loss of loyalty. Literally everyone has

36:13

got to talk about Spike's

36:15

possible wavering loyalty.

36:18

Um, did he double-cross them?

36:20

Or does he have his own reasons for

36:22

the Gem of Amara stuff? And this is...Crizan,

36:25

did you say this in the last episode that we

36:27

taped, that like, the Gem of Amara

36:29

is a great way to keep

36:31

Jusilla alive in the sunlight and make her think

36:33

that the spell works. Yeah. Yeah.

36:37

If she happens to forget that she's wearing the Gem of Amara.

36:39

Does she know what the Gem of Amara does?

36:41

She does. I think they talk about it in...

36:43

Because she does because they, in their

36:45

reality, they've thought it's been a legend the

36:47

whole time. But she knows what it would

36:49

do if she found it and then she

36:52

found it. But yes, we did talk about that

36:54

a little bit. And I think that's

36:56

one of the romantic notions that perhaps Spike gave Jusilla

36:58

the Gem of Amara so

37:01

that even though the spell didn't

37:03

work, she wouldn't die. That is very

37:05

romantic. Thank

37:08

you. And then the other big thing in this

37:10

scene is just this idea that Berenice,

37:13

who was Kergan's

37:16

slayer trainee or

37:18

whatever, seemed impervious to the

37:21

grimoire. It's

37:23

all rooted in the like, we don't understand the

37:26

blood of a slayer. We don't understand everything

37:28

about being a slayer. Wait,

37:30

isn't there another slayer who did

37:32

something with the grimoire recently? It's

37:35

Indira. So Indira

37:37

seems to be impervious to

37:39

the grimoire as well. Sometimes

37:41

I'm like, do I even say another thing

37:44

I'm confused about? But if Kergan only

37:46

has one soul, it's not like the

37:48

book has dozens of Kergan

37:51

souls. Fine. I like

37:53

the lore that if Berenice was impervious,

37:55

then Indira might be as well. But

37:57

I don't think that Indira using the

38:00

grimoire... and not getting another kurgen in

38:02

her. A kurgen is already in Terra.

38:04

If the

38:08

grimoire, which

38:10

contains the soul, has an

38:12

orgasm while it's in true love,

38:16

does it lose its soul? Does the

38:19

soul remove? Yeah, well that's actually

38:21

the thing that gives the... I like want

38:23

to stop talking so badly and like can't

38:25

stop myself, but I was going to say

38:28

the thing that gives the book an orgasm

38:30

is a witch, which is why. Oh my god,

38:33

oh my god, oh my god. Kurgen

38:35

is Romanian, so it could be... there

38:37

could be some... Oh shit! Curse over.

38:39

Curse over. Anyway,

38:42

Clem has some tiny doubts

38:44

about Spike, which... Let

38:48

me tell you what Jenny. Clem would never. No,

38:52

no, no, no. Clem would never doubt Spike. A,

38:54

because... No, no, no, no. He loves his abs

38:57

and B, because they're fucking best friends. They're best

38:59

friends. Best friends forever.

39:02

Yeah. Okay. Then

39:05

we learn something. Anjanka

39:10

asserts that she and Anja are both

39:13

holding things back from each other. Right.

39:16

And then also, we get

39:20

this knowledge bomb from

39:23

Anjanka, which Giles then confirms

39:27

about sort of like Anja no...

39:30

While being

39:33

merged previously with

39:36

Anjanka, Anja knew every wish that Anjanka granted,

39:39

and if she truly wanted, she could have

39:42

stopped it. Yeah,

39:45

so the person inhabited

39:47

by the vengeance demon has some

39:50

agency as well. But

39:52

they... But because Anja...

39:55

Like what led Anja to invite Anjanka

39:58

into to her to begin

40:03

with was, you

40:05

know, a thirst for

40:08

vengeance, which

40:10

they just sort of coasted on together for some

40:14

odd thousand years. Yeah. Yeah.

40:18

And we played this clip at the jump at

40:20

the top of the episode where

40:22

Giles is saying, you know, that Anya

40:25

was his friend and that

40:27

Anya grew up in a grim and violent

40:29

era. So to your

40:31

point, Jenny, she welcomed Anjanka into her

40:33

heart. And we opened with a clip. I

40:35

found it really interesting, this idea that like

40:38

when really it's odd, right? It's

40:40

not even Anya. Like Anya is

40:42

who odd is after Anjanka has

40:44

been merged and no,

40:47

just merged into

40:49

odd. But regardless that at

40:51

the time of that merging, odd or

40:55

Anya was living in a time

40:57

when really probably the only option

40:59

to fight back against

41:01

a lot of the injustices that

41:03

women faced at that time was

41:05

to literally be violent. Like there

41:08

was no, there were no other

41:10

options, sort of like

41:12

a killer be killed for a lack of a

41:15

better phrasing. But

41:17

that as she journeyed and

41:19

as time passed, the

41:23

battle changed, you know, and that like there's

41:25

more nuance now than there was then. And

41:28

it isn't necessarily a literal kill

41:31

or be killed anymore. There are

41:33

differing circumstances. So

41:36

that was that time progressive. And, you know,

41:38

Giles says it took generations for Anya to

41:40

learn that there was a different way of

41:42

living. And I just

41:44

found that interesting. Again, you know, we

41:46

talked a little bit last week or maybe two weeks ago

41:49

about some of the things

41:51

that we find are what makes

41:53

the Buffyverse the Buffyverse. And

41:56

I think something like this, like this is the kind of

41:58

like, lore. or

42:00

like history or some combination therein

42:02

that I like the most in

42:05

the Buffyverse, because it's a commentary

42:07

on, you know, what it was like

42:09

perhaps to be a woman centuries

42:12

ago and what it's like to be a woman currently

42:14

and how those things are different and

42:17

what they share still.

42:19

And that, I think that that

42:21

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other night, and I'm not going to tell you how

44:18

much it was. You've got to put two dozen oysters

44:20

in a spreadsheet. Your accountant's not so happy. You can't

44:22

even write those off when they come from the farm.

44:24

Seafood gets tricky. Alright. The call

44:26

follows a down-on-her-luck tech industry wonderkin by

44:28

the name of Julie Berg, who has no

44:31

other choice but to partner with two

44:33

brothers from the reject piles of Shark

44:35

Tank as they desperately try to develop

44:37

their next invention. When

44:39

recordings of Julie's calls with The Toad

44:41

Bros. end up in the hands

44:44

of an investigative journalist, she presents

44:46

her audience with the wild twists

44:48

of Julie's story, showcasing the best

44:50

of their worst, most cringe-worthy phone

44:52

calls. A conference call,

44:54

a Paradiso Media production presented by

44:57

Realm, stars Elizabeth Henstridge, Jeff Ward,

44:59

Gregory Sees, and Emma Roberts, and

45:02

featuring Karen Gillan, Beck Bennett, Jimmy

45:04

Digiweebe, Clark Gregg, and many more.

45:07

Be sure to listen and subscribe to Conference

45:09

Call wherever you get your podcasts, or learn

45:11

more at realms.fm. Jenny,

45:17

before we go to the next scene, I think one of

45:20

my favorite parts in this episode, honestly, is that

45:22

Giles is like, okay, Anya, this is how

45:24

you think about being Anya. Everybody

45:27

in this pile

45:29

of humans and dogs merged

45:31

together has to kind of like really think

45:34

about who they are for this spell

45:36

to work. And he's like, how I

45:38

don't really actually know how to do that with a dog.

45:40

And Clem is like, I have fucking

45:42

got this. Who's a good boy? Who's

45:45

a good boy? It's Jasper. And I think

45:47

it's perfect. Aww. If

45:52

I ever become merged with Frank, and I really hope

45:54

it doesn't happen. You're fucked, honestly, because

45:56

if we said to the merging of you and

45:58

Frank, who's a good boy? I honestly

46:00

think you'd both respond the same. Okay.

46:07

Meanwhile, at Drusilla's lair, Spike

46:11

and Tara are having a little

46:14

argument about whose

46:16

girl Drusilla is.

46:20

Yeah, I don't need it. And

46:24

Tara's like, who are you really?

46:27

Hmm. And

46:30

Spike tries his most used tactic,

46:32

which is flirt with the person

46:34

he's speaking to. Usually

46:37

when I'm in a uncomfortable position, I

46:40

just get really, I just try to

46:42

ooze sex. He just

46:44

is pointing to his own cheekbones,

46:47

tilting him off towards the moonlight. Yeah, yeah, check

46:49

these out. Pulling his t-shirt up to

46:51

reveal his rippling abs. Tara's

46:53

like, you're not my type. And he's like,

46:56

you're not my type either. I don't even

46:58

know why I tried. I

47:01

do like this line that Tara has

47:03

in this scene. She

47:05

says, there is no old me. There

47:09

is just me. Just like even

47:11

outside of the whole storyline. I just thought it was like a

47:14

good line, a fun line of

47:16

like, because I do really wonder

47:18

what is happening with Tara. If

47:22

we get to see Tara

47:25

without Kurgan, will

47:28

Tara be irreversibly changed in

47:30

ways that maybe are really

47:32

great for her? Question

47:35

mark. No more

47:37

zigzag parts. No more zigzag parts. And

47:41

I think she had one all of the vending

47:43

machines she could move right now. Wow.

47:47

Her and Drusilla definitely moved more, I think,

47:49

than a vending machine. What

47:51

would Drusilla and Tara move with

47:54

their sexy magic? Well,

47:56

all I can think of is at the

47:58

end of season six when... Willow

48:01

is darkly raising a satanic

48:03

temple from underneath the ground.

48:06

It's way better than what my mind conjured,

48:08

which was a lot of cats all at the

48:10

same time. Why?

48:13

Kristen's not. But like gently. Like

48:16

when I thought it and I was like, but they're fine. Such

48:18

a thing as being the cat's too gay. It's

48:22

my brand. I know. I'm

48:24

wrong. Oh,

48:27

so this line that I was, I

48:29

knew there was a line that Tara said, and it

48:31

I think is what informs me thinking like, will Tara

48:34

post-Kurgan like find some strength that

48:36

maybe will be good for her

48:38

if there is a post-Kurgan Tara?

48:40

Sometimes I think about the sentences

48:42

I'm saying and I'm like, who,

48:44

what? If there is

48:46

a post-Kurgan Tara, shut up,

48:48

Kristen. But

48:51

she says in this scene

48:53

that there's more to what she's doing than just

48:56

pleasing Drucilla. She says, I want freedom

48:58

to love, to hate, to take what

49:00

I want when I want it. Faith

49:02

Lahain much. She wants to want and

49:04

take and have. Yeah. And

49:07

like we know our Tara and

49:10

she was fairly timid in

49:12

many ways and I think grew as the series progressed.

49:16

So like maybe this Tara will get to want, take,

49:18

and have and I would love to see it. I

49:22

would celebrate it. Okay. Emerge

49:25

in your mind if you will, Kristen, I've got a pitch. Okay. Do

49:29

you remember on

49:31

Friends when Joey was

49:33

writing his script

49:36

for officiating Monica and Chandler's

49:38

wedding? Spoilers for Friends.

49:42

Yes, I do. Do you

49:44

remember how he's like to have and to hold. He wants

49:47

to take. He

49:49

just like, he

49:52

writes like seven paragraphs in which he

49:54

just repeats the words,

49:57

having, holding, giving, receiving.

50:02

Now imagine Faith just being like to

50:04

want and to take and

50:07

thus to have with all of this wanting

50:11

and taking and ultimately having.

50:14

I like the idea of it being a

50:16

combo where it's like to want to take

50:18

to have and to hold you know. All

50:23

right, Tara's like, ooh, Indira suppose

50:26

Tara's all about casting doubt right

50:28

now. She's like Indira supposedly raised

50:30

Spike from the dead, right? But

50:34

she can't sense the kind of power on

50:36

Indira that would have been required to complete

50:38

the resurrection spell. Okay, interesting.

50:42

And Mr. Pickles, you

50:44

remember him, indicates that Spike

50:46

does not smell like the

50:48

old Spike. And here, let me

50:50

just take you through my process while I was listening to this

50:52

the first time before I was taking notes. I was like, before I

50:55

got to the end of the episode in real time, I was like,

50:57

okay, so last week I was trying to figure out if the

50:59

angry British man in the dungeon is James Marsis if it's some

51:01

other version of Spike. So I was like, before

51:03

I got here,

51:06

before I got to Tara

51:09

being like not knowing,

51:12

right? I was like,

51:14

what if Tara did

51:16

the spell, like got tricked into

51:18

doing the spell from the Gromar, got possessed by Kurgan

51:21

and then started like getting

51:23

up to no good was like,

51:25

I'm gonna imprison Spike, but like

51:27

cast a glamour on someone that

51:30

Cordelia can behead, which your syllable

51:32

thinks that Spike is

51:34

dead and that I can like slip

51:36

in there with my exhilarating fingers or

51:38

whatever. And not

51:40

my words, Kristen, not my

51:42

words. And

51:48

as you may recall, Drusilla

51:51

specifically says when

51:53

it came time to Entomb Spike. Right.

51:57

This is like a, this is like peculiar.

52:00

your way to say it because she was like, we

52:02

all know vampires are dusted, right?

52:04

When they turn into dust. But she

52:06

was like, I couldn't find any like you

52:08

were just dust. Okay, well, we

52:10

sure yeah, why? Oh, yeah,

52:13

she said something about a small amount of

52:15

dust or something, right? Yeah,

52:17

yeah, yeah. And then that she basically just like

52:19

scoops up whatever she could find, which was not

52:21

much and the duster and berries that so. So

52:25

here. So I guess it wasn't

52:27

Tara because she doesn't seem to

52:29

know what's going on. But did

52:31

someone else I'm just like, who

52:34

did this? Okay. And, and

52:37

how did they get Cordelia

52:39

to think that she actually killed

52:41

Spike or maybe Cordelia is

52:44

responsible, which was

52:46

such a big reach. But I'm just like, scrambling

52:49

in my brain desperately trying to figure out

52:52

who who

52:55

besides Tara has something to

52:57

gain from this scenario that I've

52:59

cooked up in my mind. Yeah, but no

53:01

answers yet. Maybe possibly answers next week, even

53:03

if the answer is that's just an angry

53:05

British man. Oh,

53:10

I would like to I can't

53:13

comment. Because I

53:15

don't, you know, I don't trust myself to

53:17

really dig in here without

53:19

revealing or without confirming or

53:21

denying any of these things. But I do want

53:24

to say that, obviously, the spike

53:26

in Drew love story is wonderful

53:30

and I delight in

53:32

it. Spike has some lines

53:35

that are very delicious,

53:37

very spike lines that

53:39

I just wanted to call out in

53:41

this scene when he's talking about you. I don't don't

53:44

love the like, she's mine, she's mine that drew

53:46

his mind situation that's

53:48

going on here. But I do love

53:50

when Spike says, I've known her since

53:52

the 19th century. She made

53:54

me we've been loving and fighting and

53:57

killing and bleeding together since the year

53:59

they invented. invented the light bulb,

54:01

we break apart and get together

54:03

as regular as the tide. Nice.

54:07

And then later he says, my

54:09

feelings for Drew cross time and

54:11

space. They're immutable. And,

54:15

you know, whatever he goes on, but

54:17

there's something about the word immutable to

54:19

describe their love that I just love.

54:21

Yeah. Yeah. He's

54:24

like, okay, what rhymes with immutable?

54:28

Unscrewedable. Okay.

54:35

Where do we go? We have I

54:37

just want to make sure that we

54:39

don't end this scene without me talking

54:41

about how hard I laughed at Kurgan

54:43

saying where vampires and humans will coexist

54:45

in worship of their one and only

54:47

God, me. I

54:50

fucking died. I died. Listen,

54:55

some people just want to watch the world burn, but

54:58

some people, some other people

55:01

just want vampires and humans to coexist

55:03

so that they can all worship

55:05

their one true God, me. Yeah.

55:07

We talked. You haven't heard. Well, who knows

55:09

if you've heard the conversation we had with

55:11

Amber and Chris yet? Who knows? Probably you

55:13

have not and you will soon. But

55:16

I will say that one of my favorite parts

55:18

of talking to them, one of my

55:20

favorite little bits that we pulled in

55:22

conversation was some of their thoughts about

55:24

how they were thinking about folks

55:26

who go in, who like sort of are like, I

55:28

can fix the system from the inside, like

55:31

politicians who were like, I know this is

55:33

how I can do it. I can just

55:35

get in with all the evil guys and

55:37

from the inside fix it. And that Kurgan

55:39

is sort of like this, you know, mystical

55:42

version of that, of this guy who

55:44

felt in the beginning that he could

55:46

get into the system, the evil system

55:48

to like uproot the evil. But then

55:50

once he was inside of it, it's

55:52

a slippery slope and down he went.

55:55

And I hadn't thought of that at all in my

55:58

listen, and I thought it was a really cool

56:01

lens for Kurgan and

56:03

for I think a lot of other characters. But

56:06

yeah. I like that we also get

56:08

the shift from

56:11

Tara being like Drusilla and I are, you

56:13

know, are real. Like,

56:16

our love is real too. Well,

56:19

if Drusilla walks into a

56:21

trap and dies, well,

56:24

yeah, agree. Agree. Things

56:27

have changed. Okay,

56:30

there's more training in the training room. Yeah. Cordelia,

56:34

as soon as the words Cordelia and coffee are

56:36

placed next to each other, I only think about

56:38

how horrible the coffee that Cordelia made in

56:41

the show Angel was. But it was like, no,

56:43

it's like endearing, you know, it was like one of

56:45

the things about Cordy that we all love

56:47

that she made horrible. And thankfully, Endira is

56:49

making this coffee. I

56:54

like that Endira wants

56:56

Cordelia to tell her what it's like

56:58

being the only Slayer. And

57:01

it's funny because Endira just

57:03

became a Slayer like five minutes

57:05

ago. So she hasn't really become

57:08

a part of the community. She's really only been a

57:10

part of the fandom up to this point, you

57:12

know? So it's not like

57:15

she necessarily has like a she doesn't have the

57:17

firsthand experience of like experiencing

57:20

that connection right with with other. Yeah.

57:24

But has this sense of like in

57:26

my world, it's always been like

57:28

this for since I was a little kid, it's always

57:31

been this way. There's always been this

57:33

sisterhood, this like squad,

57:35

whatever. But you

57:37

would just have yourself. And

57:39

you know, that was that was Buffy's reality for

57:43

seven seasons before

57:46

it was changed forever. Yeah.

57:49

Yeah. And Latoya, this is sort

57:51

of just like riffing off of that. I

57:53

remember a note from Latoya last episode, which

57:56

there was a comment that I think Endira made

57:58

about like not being a Slayer. being able to

58:00

do this thing that she thought she might be able to

58:02

do, or someone saying like she wouldn't be doing that thing

58:04

because she was a slayer now. And

58:07

Latoya and her production notes had said like, but

58:09

why can't Indira,

58:11

like it's not like Indira is the

58:13

only slayer. Like if the slayer wants

58:15

to pursue a different career, is the

58:19

pressure now taken off? Can they just go

58:21

to college if they'd like to go to

58:23

college? Do they

58:25

have to pick

58:27

up the slayer mantle if they are

58:29

called or is there flexibility there? Yeah,

58:32

well the person who says that is Cordelia

58:34

actually. Ah. Okay, Indira

58:36

is talking about like having an interest in

58:38

psychology and Cordelia says

58:40

well if that was like your career

58:42

plan, you can forget it now. And

58:44

Cordelia doesn't have... That's true. Cordelia only

58:47

knows what Buffy knew for most of

58:49

the time that we spent with her in this

58:51

series which is this is your

58:53

calling and it's your life and there's not room

58:55

for anything else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good

58:57

point. So

59:00

there's a clip here. We almost opened

59:02

with it, but we're going to put it in this scene

59:05

conversation. And this is Cordelia

59:07

saying to Indira that when you're just answering

59:09

this question, when you are the only, when

59:11

you are the one, she says

59:14

it's sort of like no one sees you.

59:16

I actually really liked this piece of the

59:19

line. No one sees you because you

59:21

don't exist. You are just this thing,

59:23

right? You are the slayer. And so

59:26

the identity is so big that like

59:28

who you are apart from that

59:30

title is just invisible. And

59:33

then she goes on and she says. Funny.

59:38

There was a time before I became the

59:40

slayer when I worried about

59:42

what other people thought. I

59:44

behaved myself because that's

59:47

what the world expected. So

59:51

stupid to think I could ruin my life

59:53

by speaking out or standing

59:55

up for myself. So naive.

1:00:00

I learned that

1:00:03

people who want you to be quiet and

1:00:05

toe the line are always the ones doing

1:00:07

the bad stuff. They

1:00:09

want us under their thumb and

1:00:11

silence. But trust me, when

1:00:13

the truth is revealed, they're the ones who

1:00:16

all get burned. And

1:00:18

they deserve to be. I

1:00:21

had originally, you know, Jenny and I talk about the

1:00:23

sound clips we want to pull in and what's going

1:00:25

to be the opening clip and so on and so

1:00:27

forth. And I had originally marked this for the opening

1:00:29

clip and then that led to us having a conversation

1:00:31

which I found really

1:00:33

important. Because obviously, like, at the core

1:00:35

of this series, or at least one

1:00:37

of the things at the very core

1:00:40

of this series is hashtag justice for

1:00:42

Cordelia, right? There

1:00:44

was a person at the helm of

1:00:46

the arc of Cordelia's story and that

1:00:49

person made choices about the

1:00:51

end of that character's life that

1:00:54

were deeply upsetting to the fandom and

1:00:56

still are. So bringing

1:00:58

back Cordelia and bringing back Cordelia

1:01:00

as a slayer has inherent power

1:01:03

that reaches outside

1:01:05

of just the story itself. And

1:01:07

when I heard this clip, I was like, well, there

1:01:09

it is, right? So stupid

1:01:12

to think I could ruin my life

1:01:14

by speaking out or standing up for

1:01:16

myself. This is Charisma Carpenter and she

1:01:18

is talking about her experiences. And

1:01:20

I was sort of swept up in

1:01:22

that, which I think is fine and great and I'm

1:01:24

sure many of you were. But

1:01:28

it made me not really think about the

1:01:30

words themselves in the story itself, which is

1:01:32

a bit confusing. And I

1:01:35

think that, okay, so without

1:01:38

saying too much, Jenny, I was thinking

1:01:40

about Mulder and you know how- I

1:01:42

love it. You know how like

1:01:45

Scully's presence in Mulder's life at

1:01:47

this point to the listeners I've

1:01:49

only watched one season of the show, but is

1:01:52

to sort of say, hey, I'm

1:01:54

here because you believe so deeply

1:01:57

in this thing that sometimes you

1:02:00

sort of- of like lose the thread, right?

1:02:02

Like sometimes you lose your way because you

1:02:04

are here so much for this thing that

1:02:06

it becomes like the biggest and loudest heartbeat.

1:02:08

And I was thinking in a lot of

1:02:10

ways that's what's happening to me in this

1:02:13

moment. Like I am here and I am

1:02:15

here first and foremost for Cordelia, for Charisma,

1:02:17

for all of this message that

1:02:19

I sort of lost the thread a little

1:02:21

bit in looking at actually the story where

1:02:23

I don't know that we I don't

1:02:26

know that we needed to hear

1:02:28

this exactly like this to get

1:02:30

the message. We're getting the message.

1:02:32

Cordelia is back. She's a fucking

1:02:35

slayer. That's the move. That's the

1:02:37

go. And this is you know

1:02:39

it wasn't even my opinion at first. It was

1:02:41

my opinion Jenny after talking to you and what

1:02:43

have you and it doesn't need to be an

1:02:45

opinion that folks share. But I felt it was

1:02:47

really important when you sort of like pointed to

1:02:49

that. Well it's

1:02:51

just that like it

1:02:53

feels a little bit disconnected from what's going

1:02:55

on on either side of it and because

1:02:58

it is I think

1:03:00

so meaningful to

1:03:03

the people who are writing

1:03:06

and performing this

1:03:09

series that it felt

1:03:11

like just a little strange

1:03:15

that it didn't like totally connect because like

1:03:17

the idea like where they kind of land

1:03:19

with it is that Indira's

1:03:22

like are you telling me to misbehave so

1:03:24

jerks like Drusilla don't keep the world down

1:03:26

and Cordelia says always always

1:03:28

misbehave. And I feel like we

1:03:30

just don't quite

1:03:33

have enough connected

1:03:35

tissue that gets us from the

1:03:38

big idea that Cordelia is putting forth and

1:03:41

that I think the

1:03:43

people making the show really

1:03:45

want to communicate and I understand

1:03:47

why and I value the idea.

1:03:49

I just wish that it felt like

1:03:52

it's slotted in a little bit more like

1:03:55

it didn't it feels like

1:04:00

a dropping of the fourth wall. But

1:04:04

I feel like there maybe was a way to

1:04:06

more seamlessly weave

1:04:10

it in to the

1:04:13

story. Do you know what

1:04:15

I mean? I do. I mean, I think of course

1:04:17

there was. I mean, that's what really struck me is

1:04:19

like, of course there was because it's

1:04:21

not like you're taking any character, any

1:04:23

kind of narrative and trying to get

1:04:25

this message to come out. I mean

1:04:28

this message of like standing up,

1:04:30

speaking out, fighting back, that is

1:04:32

the heartbeat of a slayer. So

1:04:34

you really don't need to. It is where it's placed

1:04:36

and it is what it's about. I think it and

1:04:39

I do think that it could have been done in

1:04:41

a way where it did both lifts

1:04:44

without feeling like it was placed in a

1:04:46

place that was a little bit

1:04:48

confusing, right? Because are you

1:04:51

telling me to misbehave so jerks like

1:04:53

Drusilla? Like

1:04:55

this would be the in this universe,

1:04:58

I think this would be something about

1:05:00

the council, something about the watchers, something

1:05:02

about fill in the blanks, even a

1:05:05

demon, right? But like Drusilla

1:05:07

being the thing that we're pivoting on

1:05:09

just feels maybe like not exactly the

1:05:11

place where it could have landed and

1:05:14

you know, it's a little bit scary, I will

1:05:16

say to like talk about something like this because

1:05:18

I have such high

1:05:21

regard for the work

1:05:23

being done here, why it's being done,

1:05:25

the reason this is here, the power

1:05:27

of this, the experience that I will

1:05:30

never understand that these folks

1:05:32

in this series went through, right? But

1:05:36

but also it feels important to talk

1:05:39

about it because I think and believe

1:05:41

and hope and want for this universe

1:05:43

to get a second spin. Like

1:05:46

I do think that if this is

1:05:48

more at the forefront of really thinking

1:05:50

about how these stories already tell this

1:05:52

tale and how to like just nail

1:05:54

it down that we will be getting

1:05:56

closer to the thing that we know

1:05:58

and love, you know? Maybe.

1:06:03

Or come for me. Please

1:06:06

don't come for her. I

1:06:09

literally thought you were going to say, please don't come

1:06:11

for me. And I was like classic. And then you

1:06:13

were so nice. Well definitely don't come

1:06:15

for me. I mean there's simply nothing to come

1:06:17

for me about. But

1:06:19

don't come for Kristen because I need her. She

1:06:23

is my good friend. Second

1:06:26

best. Speaking

1:06:28

of friends, what

1:06:30

I do love is that this leads

1:06:33

directly into Indira being like, you're my

1:06:35

friend Cordelia. Whether you

1:06:37

want to be or not. You don't have to

1:06:39

say it back. Oh so sweet. Best

1:06:41

friends. Best friends. And

1:06:44

Cordelia says fine. You win. We're

1:06:46

friends. Are you happy now? I'm happy.

1:06:49

Yeah I am happy soon. Okay.

1:06:54

In Spike's car. Spike,

1:06:57

Drew and Tara speeding towards the magic box.

1:06:59

Spike and Drew are in the front. Spike

1:07:01

is playing his tunes on the stereo. He's

1:07:04

very pleased. He's got his arm

1:07:06

around Drusilla. He says, just like

1:07:08

old times, my arm around you.

1:07:10

Your girlfriend in the backseat. Tara

1:07:15

is trying to like flag for Drusilla that

1:07:17

Spike is in league with Cordelia. Drusilla

1:07:21

is not interested in hearing it. And

1:07:23

Spike is like, whatever happens Drusilla. This

1:07:27

has been great. Okay. This

1:07:29

is the truth. That is the God's

1:07:32

honest truth. The Spike's honest truth. I

1:07:35

was going to say, I think that

1:07:37

my favorite Tara Drew

1:07:39

Spike situation is this

1:07:42

one. I love the idea of them speeding

1:07:44

together in a car. And just like

1:07:46

Spike and Tara like hating each other.

1:07:48

But Drusilla being there and they both

1:07:50

love Drusilla. Like that is exactly the kind of

1:07:52

manifestation of the throuple that I would like to

1:07:54

see more of. I also really had

1:07:57

a good life. at

1:08:00

Spike calling Tara Broom-Hilda.

1:08:02

And I looked up because

1:08:04

I knew like I could

1:08:07

picture Broom-Hilda in my mind

1:08:09

but I couldn't remember exactly

1:08:11

her deal. And I

1:08:13

looked up Broom-Hilda which

1:08:16

is an American newspaper comic strip

1:08:18

created by this cartoonist Russell Myers.

1:08:21

This Wikipedia article on Broom-Hilda says

1:08:24

this comic strip depicts the

1:08:26

misadventures of a man crazy

1:08:28

cigar smoking beer-guzzling 1500 year

1:08:30

old witch and her motley

1:08:33

crew of friends. I was

1:08:35

like sign me up!

1:08:37

I gotta get a look at

1:08:39

this Broom-Hilda. Yeah you do. This

1:08:42

lady is green Kristen. She's green it's

1:08:44

funny because some of the pictures she's

1:08:47

yellow but I remember her green. I

1:08:51

just listen I don't I haven't read the

1:08:53

comics I'm sure there's a lot to discuss

1:08:55

in the comics of Broom-Hilda but the description

1:08:57

fucking got me. There's a picture of her

1:09:00

Jenny one of the

1:09:02

illustrations of her she's sitting on her broom that

1:09:06

seems to be aloft in the air and

1:09:08

her little tongue is sticking out and she

1:09:10

just has a can of beer in her

1:09:13

hand and I'm just like give me a

1:09:15

Broom-Hilda merch. Can I have pictures of Broom-Hilda

1:09:17

in my house? Okay. You're saying she's a

1:09:19

nail wife? She is yeah truly she's bringing

1:09:21

me ala wife full circle. Yeah

1:09:25

okay so they have 15

1:09:27

minions a couple of SUVs

1:09:29

and a rusty Chevy I

1:09:31

think is the vibe. They're

1:09:34

headed to attack the folks at the

1:09:36

Magic Box. I

1:09:38

thought it was a little bit odd that Drew

1:09:40

Silla chose to talk about Spike as a part

1:09:43

of her like her liver her hair or her

1:09:45

fingers because that is almost the same verbiage

1:09:47

used for Tara talking about

1:09:49

Kurgan. I was like

1:09:51

I don't know if we want to put

1:09:53

those things on the same plane. Okay

1:09:57

so at the Magic Box. It's

1:12:00

hard for me to know now because I

1:12:02

read on the script and sometimes it says

1:12:04

that bell rings but it doesn't always, you

1:12:07

know what I mean? So I want to say that

1:12:09

we have heard it before but I don't know, listeners,

1:12:11

tell us. And even if we have Jenny, if it

1:12:13

moved you this episode, that is

1:12:15

when it moved you. I guess that's the thing, yeah. Speaking

1:12:18

of ringing bells. Sexual

1:12:26

Tension Awards! Welcome

1:12:31

back to another installment of the

1:12:33

Sexual Tension Awards! Here we are!

1:12:36

God bless us everyone, tis the season.

1:12:40

Listen. In slot number

1:12:42

one, there are some feelings

1:12:45

which cannot be replaced

1:12:50

or improved upon and one of them is when

1:12:52

you are sitting with your arm around

1:12:54

your girlfriend and her girlfriend is in

1:12:57

the backseat and your tunes are

1:12:59

on the stereo and the wind is in your hair,

1:13:01

etc. Therefore

1:13:04

I give you in slot number

1:13:06

one Spike and your Silla!

1:13:11

In slot number two, continuing

1:13:13

to desperately

1:13:15

want to be separated from the dog element

1:13:17

but also be then perhaps

1:13:20

re-merged with just one

1:13:22

another privately and it's

1:13:24

none of our business. Get that damn dog out

1:13:26

of here, you know? And on

1:13:29

Yanka, get that damn

1:13:31

dog out of here. And

1:13:34

I've got one more nom for

1:13:36

this round up. In slot number

1:13:38

three, Spike talks a lot about his love for

1:13:41

Drusilla transcending time

1:13:43

and space and there is another love

1:13:46

in this episode that

1:13:48

does not care for the boundaries

1:13:50

of chronology and the

1:13:53

past, the present, the future. It's

1:13:55

timeless. It's omnipresent.

1:14:00

Clem and various

1:14:02

retired snacks. Perfect. He

1:14:06

longs for them across the

1:14:08

years. Yes, I love that. Beautiful.

1:14:12

Please vote. Please, for the love of

1:14:14

God, please vote. Vote! Vote! Please

1:14:17

vote. You can do so by going

1:14:19

to bufferingcast.com/SCA. That will lead you to

1:14:21

the current poll. We need your voice!

1:14:33

Well, that

1:14:35

is the penultimate episode of Slayers,

1:14:38

the Buffyverse story. Sure is. Still

1:14:40

having a blast. Me too. I

1:14:43

am so excited to talk to you about the

1:14:45

final episode. Who? Me?

1:14:48

Jenny Owen Youngs? She's not making podcasts

1:14:50

with Kristen, is usually making music. Well,

1:14:54

you can find my music by searching my

1:14:56

name on your favorite digital music platform. You

1:14:58

can give me a shout on Twitter, Instagram,

1:15:00

or TikTok at Jenny Owen Youngs. Or

1:15:03

you could just talk to my very good

1:15:06

friend Kristen Russo instead. That

1:15:08

would be me, very good friend Kristen Russo.

1:15:10

When I'm not thinking all the time about

1:15:12

my best friend Jenny Owen Youngs, I am

1:15:16

usually working

1:15:18

with and for LGBTQ communities.

1:15:21

You can learn about my

1:15:23

work on my website, kristennoline.com.

1:15:29

Use that spelling to find me on socials as well.

1:15:32

Buffering the Vampire Slayer is on

1:15:34

Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok at

1:15:36

bufferingcast. And you can email us

1:15:38

at hello at bufferingcast.com. You

1:15:42

could support us, we would love it if you did,

1:15:44

tis the season, whatever that means, and

1:15:47

on Patreon, patreon.com/buffering cast. We're in

1:15:49

the middle of Want Take Winter,

1:15:51

where we are watching just

1:15:53

last night. We watched Faith

1:15:56

Hope and Trick as well as Bad Girls.

1:15:58

We've got another couple of sets. of

1:16:00

delicious episodes for you all

1:16:02

coming in January and February.

1:16:04

Yes, indeed. This

1:16:07

episode was produced by Kristen Russo, Jenny

1:16:09

O'Nyongs, and Latoya Ferguson with support from

1:16:11

our consultant, Mackenzie McDade. It was edited

1:16:13

by John Mark Nelson. Until

1:16:15

next time. Ah, woo!

1:16:21

Birkin, Birkin, Birkin. Birkin,

1:16:24

Birkin. Al

1:16:29

Capone. Bugsy Siegel. Maya Lansky.

1:16:31

Lucky Luciano. Pretty Boy Floyd.

1:16:33

What do these guys all

1:16:35

have in common? That's right.

1:16:37

They're all gangsters. Whether

1:16:39

it's running hooch, drugs, or girls, they all

1:16:42

had a piece of every business on every

1:16:44

corner of every city. Well, every

1:16:46

business. Except one. And

1:16:48

that's where I come in. My

1:16:50

name is Harry Dolovich, and I'm from New York City,

1:16:52

and I'd like you to join me with the help

1:16:55

of an incredible cast of actors like Richard Kine, Lewis

1:16:58

Black, Melanie Lynskey, Bobby Cannavale, Michael

1:17:00

Stuhlbarg, Justin Bartha, and many

1:17:02

more to tell the unbelievable true story

1:17:04

of how I rose from nothing to

1:17:06

something after taking over the one business

1:17:08

that those gangsters were too blind to see.

1:17:11

The chocolate syrup business.

1:17:14

So, make sure you tune

1:17:16

those radios to Realm and slurp up

1:17:18

the first ten fizzy installments of how

1:17:21

I, Harry Dolovich, became New York's king

1:17:23

of the egg cream. Available

1:17:25

wherever you get your podcasts.