0:00

What would you say if someone outside your

0:02

family asked if they could move in with

0:04

you? Stay at your house, eat meals

0:06

with you? Observe how you interact

0:09

with your spouse and your children, all

0:11

to let them see what a healthy family looks

0:13

like. They want to know how it's

0:15

done. Well, what would you say? Would

0:18

you say your family's too dysfunctional to

0:20

take on a border? Your family is not

0:22

healthy enough to face that kind of scrutiny.

0:24

It's a little daunting to know there's somebody

0:26

who wants to emulate how you live. But what

0:29

if they see conflict? What if you have a

0:31

bad day today? You're going to hear

0:33

from a man who had that exact scenario.

0:36

Someone asked him if he could move in with his

0:38

family, and his wife and two children.

0:40

Thought it was a good idea. What

0:42

happened?

0:43

Oh, don't you dare touch that dial, friend. This

0:45

is building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman,

0:47

who is the New York Times best selling author

0:49

of the Five Love Languages. Today, we're going to highlight

0:52

his book Five traits

0:54

of a Healthy Family. Steps you

0:56

can take to grow closer, communicate

0:58

better, and change the

1:00

world together. Could that be true?

1:02

You're going to find out more today on

1:05

building relationships and go to the website.

1:07

Building relationships.us.

1:10

I have to pause here at the beginning of the

1:12

program. Look at the calendar. Gary. Happy

1:14

Veterans Day to you. I know

1:16

you have a heart for military families

1:19

around the world, right?

1:21

Well, I do. Chris, you know, my dad served

1:23

in the Second World War

1:25

going way back. And

1:28

I will never forget receiving letters.

1:30

I was probably 5 or 6 years old at that time.

1:33

And he would write a letter now and

1:35

then to my mom, and mom

1:37

would read them to me and to my sister. At

1:40

the end of every letter, my dad would say,

1:42

now give your mother a big hug

1:44

for me and obey her.

1:49

So, you know, I've spoken at many,

1:51

many bases, military bases

1:53

all over the world and really

1:55

always enjoy speaking there because

1:57

I greatly admire those who

1:59

give years of their life in the military,

2:01

and especially also now

2:04

veterans who invested

2:07

part of their lives in serving our country.

2:09

So I'm hoping that all across

2:11

the country, veterans will

2:13

feel appreciated for

2:15

what they invested in all of our

2:17

lives. You know, we sometimes just take them for

2:19

granted, but we should never take them for

2:21

granted. Yes.

2:23

Well, and service is

2:25

something we're going to talk about here in just a little

2:27

bit. But but I also have to highlight

2:29

the military family

2:31

members. There are wives

2:34

and husbands as well now, but

2:36

mainly wives and then children

2:38

of military members and

2:41

also parents who are

2:43

making these huge sacrifices. It's

2:45

a big disruption to their lives as

2:47

well. And you

2:49

talk about that when your dad said that he

2:51

wrote that letter and your dad said, give her a hug.

2:54

Was his love language, physical

2:56

touch, do you think?

2:58

Well, I didn't know anything about love languages at

3:00

that point, but looking back

3:02

on it, I think it probably was. Yes.

3:04

Yeah.

3:06

Well, I just wanted to pause

3:08

here at the beginning of the program and

3:10

say, Happy Veterans Day and all

3:12

that. That means to you who are listening.

3:15

God bless you, friend. Thank you. Now let

3:17

me turn to the conversation today.

3:19

You have been doing radio and

3:21

TV and zoom interviews

3:23

for decades and decades.

3:26

You don't have any idea how many you've done

3:28

through the years, do you?

3:30

Not a clue, Chris. I'm

3:33

thinking hundreds and hundreds, but I don't

3:35

know. I've never tried to keep

3:37

a record of how many interviews

3:39

I've done.

3:40

This has been one of the ways that people

3:43

have found out about your ministry,

3:45

about your counseling, about your ideas

3:47

as a pastor, and then the five

3:49

love languages. It kind of exploded

3:52

when that book came out, right?

3:54

It did, Chris, and continues

3:56

to explode every year.

3:58

It sells more than the year before. It's been

4:00

going on for 30 years. Over 30 years.

4:03

I never, ever anticipated that that

4:05

book would have such an impact and really

4:08

surprised that it's gone to other

4:10

languages. It's published now in over

4:12

60 languages around the world,

4:15

which it's just humbles me

4:17

to think that this concept

4:19

is helping marriages all over the world.

4:22

Yeah, well, I had the opportunity

4:24

to have Gary on my program

4:27

on Moody Radio back in early July.

4:29

We talked about the book that is featured

4:31

today. We talked about his story,

4:34

and my guess is there's somebody listening today

4:36

who did not hear that and the interaction

4:39

between you and the callers, Gary.

4:41

But they're going to hear it today. How do you feel

4:43

about that?

4:45

Well, I'm excited about it, Chris. I think any

4:47

time we can use something we've done

4:49

in the past to bring it up to the present,

4:51

that's going to be helpful to people again.

4:53

Amen, Amen. So the scenario

4:55

that Andrea painted at the beginning of the program

4:58

actually happened to you. Is that true?

5:01

It's true. Chris. It was years

5:03

ago. I was leading a college ministry

5:05

in our church, and there was

5:07

a young graduate of the University of North Carolina

5:10

who said to me at the end

5:12

of the summer, he had spent time in the summer

5:14

working with our summer group, and

5:17

he had just graduated. And he

5:19

said to me, you know, I have never

5:21

seen a healthy family. My

5:24

family was very dysfunctional. And

5:27

I wonder, would you be

5:29

open to my moving in with you

5:31

and Carolyn and your children

5:34

and just live with you for a year just

5:37

so I can see what a healthy family

5:39

is? And

5:41

I said what any wise man would say. Well,

5:44

let me talk to Carolyn about that. He

5:50

had a job in town. He was working as a schoolteacher,

5:52

teaching school in town. I

5:54

talked to Carolyn and the kids, and they both all

5:57

of them thought that's a good idea. We

5:59

didn't have an extra room. You know, we

6:01

had two kids and we had a three bedroom house

6:03

and two bathrooms. And

6:05

I said, well, where is he going to live? And Carolyn said, well, you

6:07

know, the basement is just empty sitting down there.

6:10

We could just put up a wall on the corner

6:12

and we could put a bed in there. And

6:14

I said, well, yeah, okay. So

6:19

John moved in with us and observed

6:21

everything. I mean, he was there, you

6:23

know, he was there in the mornings eating breakfast with us.

6:25

And when we had devotions with the kids, he

6:27

was there at night when we had devotions, was a family.

6:30

And, and he he just saw the whole

6:32

thing. Fortunately, you know, apparently

6:34

we were sane enough that he gained a lot from

6:36

it. That

6:39

would be my.

6:39

Question is like, what? What is he going to

6:42

see that I don't want him to see,

6:44

you know, and you didn't have a dog so he couldn't

6:46

kick the dog, right?

6:47

Couldn't kick the dog. That's right. Yeah.

6:50

He says it was one of the most meaningful things

6:52

in his life because he said, really?

6:54

I had no idea. I hate

6:56

to think what my life would have been like if

6:59

I had not been able to observe what a

7:01

healthy family looks like. And of course,

7:03

Chris, you know, Carol and I had a lot of problems

7:05

in the early days of our marriage. So I

7:07

was just glad that by this time, you

7:09

know, we had we had kind of work things out.

7:12

And we were we were moving in a positive

7:14

way because, listen, we're always growing.

7:16

You know, none of us are perfect, but

7:18

we're always growing, are regressing

7:21

one way or the other. So yeah,

7:23

but it was quite an experience. But our kids, our

7:25

kids loved it. You know, he became their big brother

7:27

and he loved, you know, interfacing

7:30

with our kids. So it was a healthy thing

7:32

for all of us.

7:33

Was there a point, you know, when you when you have like

7:35

cameras that come into your home,

7:38

you're always you

7:40

feel like a sense that I'm

7:42

being watched. Was there a

7:45

time when you just forgot

7:47

that he's there observing you and

7:49

and you got past that and he's just

7:51

part of the family?

7:52

Yeah, I think so, Chris. I think it

7:55

happened pretty soon, really. You know, I

7:57

kind of my background,

7:59

you know, is cultural anthropology, where an anthropologist

8:02

moves into a tribal group

8:04

and just starts living with them, you know,

8:06

and everybody's asking, who is this guy

8:08

and what is he here for, or what is going on? You know,

8:11

da da da da da. So

8:13

it kind of brought that to my mind, that image

8:15

to my mind. You know, he's an anthropologist

8:17

moving in to observe our culture.

8:19

But really, you know, after

8:22

a few weeks, we got the the kinks worked

8:24

out on which bathroom everybody's going to use and

8:26

how that's going to work out. It

8:29

was really a pretty pleasant experience.

8:31

Did he ever load the dishwasher wrong?

8:36

Oh, yeah. He disgusted that we discussed

8:38

that. He said, you know, he said Carolyn

8:41

would sometimes ask if she could just load the dishwasher.

8:43

She said, because I said it took me 20 minutes

8:45

what she could do in five minutes because I was so

8:47

particular, you know. So

8:49

we ran into this normal things which you run into

8:52

that people have different personalities and

8:54

they do things in a different way.

8:56

What was the biggest takeaway then

8:59

for him? Was it in the area of communication?

9:02

Was it a spiritual thing? What

9:04

did he say?

9:05

Yeah, I think it was kind of both of those, Chris,

9:07

because let's face it, you know, our relationship with

9:10

God is going to impact everything else.

9:12

And, you know, he saw us having devotions

9:14

with the kids at breakfast. It was just brief,

9:16

but it was just a word of scripture, you know, and thinking

9:19

about the day. And then he saw us

9:21

at night, you know, with the kids. We read a Bible

9:23

story and, and then go to

9:25

their beds individually beside of them and pray.

9:27

So, you know, that whole spiritual dimension.

9:29

But I think also it was

9:31

communication because I think

9:34

in his the house he grew up in, you

9:36

know, his dad was always yelling and screaming at his

9:38

mother, and then she would withdraw. And, you

9:40

know, all kinds of things went on there. And

9:42

to see us carrying on conversations,

9:45

you know, like after the dinner meal every day,

9:47

that was a part of the meal.

9:49

As we talk about how our day went,

9:51

what did we discover? What was high?

9:54

What was the low, you know, and

9:56

just to see a family talking about daily

9:58

life and processing. Together, I

10:01

think was a very helpful thing for him.

10:03

And I think that really hits

10:05

the nerve of what you want to do. There's

10:07

probably somebody listening today who

10:09

says, I'd take that,

10:11

you know, I'd move in with the Chapmans and their family.

10:14

You know, a few years ago when your kids were still

10:16

at home, because

10:18

I didn't grow up in a functional

10:20

family, there was a lot of dysfunction there,

10:23

or dad was out of the picture

10:25

or whatever. And

10:27

so I didn't get that model. That's

10:29

what you've done with this book, five

10:31

traits of a Healthy Family. The subtitle

10:34

is Steps You can Take to grow closer,

10:36

communicate better, and change

10:38

the world together. And by

10:40

change the world, you're not over the top

10:42

with that because you really believe that you go

10:45

from the micro to the macro. You change

10:47

the dynamic of your family and your relationships,

10:50

and that filters out into everybody

10:52

else, doesn't it?

10:54

Yeah, absolutely. Chris, you know, I

10:56

think the family is the basic unit

10:58

of culture. You know, I mentioned

11:01

my undergrad and master's degree

11:03

was in cultural anthropology. I don't

11:05

care what the culture's like. The family

11:07

unit is the fundamental unit

11:10

of culture. And if we can have

11:12

healthy families, it spills

11:14

over into the broader culture. And

11:16

I think that's part of the things that we're facing

11:19

in our country today. With so much dysfunction

11:22

in the families, it just spills

11:24

over into the culture. And let's

11:26

face it, we were pretty dysfunctional in

11:28

certain areas of our culture today. So

11:31

yeah, I think and what motivated

11:33

me, Chris, is I know that there's

11:35

many, many people out there who grew

11:37

up in dysfunctional families and they

11:40

really don't have a concept of what,

11:42

what's a healthy family supposed to look like.

11:44

And so in this book, I'm really trying to

11:46

be practical and just

11:48

kind of spell it out what it looks like.

11:50

And I think if we can, if

11:53

we can have a rebirth of of

11:55

family life, it can affect

11:57

the whole culture.

12:00

You're listening to Building Relationships

12:02

with Dr. Gary Chapman, author

12:04

of the New York Times bestseller The Five

12:06

Love Languages. Well, back in

12:08

July, Gary appeared on a program called

12:11

Chris Fabry Live, and he talked about

12:13

a new book, Five Traits of a

12:15

Healthy Family Steps You Can Take

12:17

to grow closer, communicate better,

12:19

and Change the World together. You

12:22

can find out more about it at building relationships.us.

12:25

You know, I've heard Dr. Chapman talk about a lot of things

12:28

through the years, and I felt like Gary can't

12:30

surprise me with anything he says.

12:32

But as I looked over this book,

12:35

I was surprised at where

12:37

he starts. He says the most

12:39

important thing that a healthy family does

12:42

is wait for it. Families

12:45

serve. So let's talk

12:47

about that. Why did you start there?

12:49

I think because, Chris, an attitude

12:52

of service is fundamental

12:54

to everything else in a family life.

12:57

You know, if we have an attitude

12:59

that you know, in this marriage, you know,

13:01

you're supposed to make me happy. That's

13:03

the main thing. You're making me happy.

13:06

That's selfishness. You

13:08

know, genuine love is serving other

13:10

people. Peter said

13:12

about Jesus, he went about

13:14

doing good. Jesus

13:16

said about himself, The Son

13:18

of Man did not come to be served.

13:21

He came to serve. And then, of course,

13:23

to give his life a ransom for others. So

13:26

I think, you know, in Ephesians five, for

13:28

example, when he discusses some things

13:30

about family life, he starts off

13:32

by saying, you know, submit to one another,

13:35

you know, and that submit

13:37

means I'm here to do what I can

13:39

to help you. Just let me know what

13:41

would enrich your life. And so

13:44

I think when a person really is walking

13:46

with God, they realize

13:48

Christ is the model and

13:50

we're here to serve others. And

13:53

that should start in the family. If

13:55

I have an attitude of honey, how can I

13:57

enrich your life? How can I make your life

13:59

easier? How can I help

14:01

you become the person you want to become? And

14:04

she has that attitude toward me. Wow.

14:07

That's going to be a good marriage. And

14:10

then if we have children, we have that attitude

14:12

toward the children. And we teach

14:14

the children how to serve each other

14:16

and ultimately, how to serve in the

14:19

mom and dad. And then we take it

14:21

beyond the family and take

14:23

the kids out with us, serving in the community,

14:25

doing things to help other people. If

14:28

children grow up with an attitude of

14:30

service, you've set

14:32

them up for a great life because

14:34

nothing is more important in life

14:36

than taking what God has given you

14:39

and using it to enrich the lives of

14:41

other people.

14:42

And isn't that, you know, I

14:45

keep going back to the the

14:47

upper room and in Jesus

14:49

pouring into the lives of the

14:51

broader community around there in the miracles,

14:54

but especially these 12 guys. And right

14:56

there at the end, he's right at the very moment

14:59

where he's going to pour himself out

15:01

for all humanity.

15:04

You know, those who respond and

15:06

give his give himself and

15:08

they're fighting. They're dysfunctional

15:11

followers. They are fighting about who's going to be

15:13

the greatest in the kingdom. And he has

15:15

to bring it back again to

15:18

that service and the washing of feet.

15:20

He was that was what

15:22

he was all about.

15:23

Yeah, absolutely. Chris. And

15:25

looking back on my own life, it's

15:28

this reality that changed my marriage

15:30

in the first place. Because when I

15:32

got married, I was self-centered, you know?

15:34

I mean, I was happy, I was in love with her. She

15:36

was going to make me happy forever. I could hardly wait

15:38

to get married. And,

15:41

you know, after a while, she wasn't doing

15:43

what I wish she would be doing. And

15:47

we argued. We didn't know how to solve conflict,

15:49

so we argued with each other and and

15:51

then we lost the euphoric feelings. We had

15:53

negative feelings toward each other. And and

15:55

I was in seminary two weeks

15:58

after we got married. I was in seminary

16:00

studying to be a pastor and

16:02

my marriage was in shambles. And I was just,

16:04

you know, kind of mad at God for getting me

16:06

into this. And

16:08

when I finally just said to God, I don't know what else

16:11

to do. Chris, what came

16:13

to my mind was exactly what you described

16:15

Jesus on his knees, washing

16:17

the feet of his disciples. And

16:20

I really heard God say to me in my heart, you

16:22

know, that's the problem in your marriage. You

16:25

do not have the attitude of Christ.

16:28

And Chris, it hit me like a ton of bricks,

16:30

you know, I knew it was not my attitude because

16:32

my attitude was, you know, if you make me happy, I'll make

16:34

you happy. You know, you do what I

16:36

say. We'll have a good marriage, you know, and

16:40

I just I confessed him and I wept, and

16:42

I confessed to God that

16:44

I had I had the wrong attitude

16:46

and just ask him to give me the attitude of Christ

16:48

toward her. And

16:50

Chris, you know, and God changed

16:53

my heart and gave me that attitude. Three

16:56

questions made it practical for me. One was,

16:59

honey, what can I do to help you? And

17:01

the second question was, how can I make

17:04

your life easier? And

17:06

the third one was, how can I be a better husband?

17:08

And when I was willing to ask those questions,

17:10

she was willing to tell me, you know, and

17:13

and I began to do those things. And,

17:16

Chris, I think it was probably three months before

17:18

she warmed up to all of that, and she started asking

17:20

me those three questions. But

17:23

when they have an attitude of service, you know,

17:25

you're going to have a good marriage and

17:28

you're likely going to be good parents. So I think

17:30

it all starts there. It's kind of fundamental.

17:33

You know.

17:33

The other thing that happened with you and Carolyn

17:35

was you started to see how different

17:38

you were. And I don't know

17:40

if God pulls blinders over us

17:42

or we just have them. We don't see that.

17:44

But you, you know, you thought

17:46

you'd go to bed together at 10:00,

17:49

1030. You'd read, you fall asleep.

17:51

And she wasn't having it, you

17:53

know, she was a she's a night owl. You're the

17:56

morning person. And and

17:58

that resentment came in there

18:00

that, you know, you're not feeling fitting the bill,

18:02

you know, and that that was

18:04

hard to get over.

18:06

Absolutely crazy. Not only the evening

18:08

but the morning, you know, because I envisioned

18:10

that we'd have breakfast together every morning and then

18:12

have devotions together every morning. And

18:15

then after we got married, I mean, she would get

18:17

up, but she didn't wake up, you know,

18:19

until 10:00, you know? So

18:22

this ain't gonna work. So that

18:24

kind of went out the window, you know? So

18:27

all of my visions of how wonderful

18:29

it was going to be turned out

18:31

to be not so wonderful. And

18:33

I realize now, having counseled people

18:35

for 40 years, I wasn't the only one

18:37

that went through that. You know, many couples

18:40

go through you kind of disillusioned

18:42

with the way what you intended

18:44

or you thought it was going to be like, and it's not like

18:46

that. And so we have

18:48

to start to rethink

18:50

how do we have a good marriage. And I

18:52

think it begins with the heart. And

18:54

when we have a heart and we have an attitude

18:57

of service and love like

19:00

Jesus, and he can give

19:02

it to us if we're open our hearts to us, he

19:04

wants to change our hearts. Then

19:06

we start moving in the right direction. Yeah.

19:09

The five. Let me just give the overview

19:11

of the five things. So families who

19:13

serve. That's part one. The second is husbands

19:15

and wives who relate intimately.

19:18

And then you go into the parenting parents

19:20

who guide their children. And

19:23

then the response of children who obey

19:25

and honor their parents. And the

19:27

fifth then, well, let's wait

19:29

on the fifth and go to our first caller

19:32

for Dr. Chapman. Let's talk with Kimberly,

19:34

who's on the line.

19:35

Good afternoon, everyone, and I

19:37

love your five five, this book, I have

19:40

it and I read it several times. Either

19:42

way, I have five

19:44

older brothers and

19:46

I am the only girl. And

19:49

once I got saved, I realized that my family

19:51

was dysfunctional. I didn't know that

19:53

before then. We weren't raised together.

19:55

I was adopted out and now

19:57

that we are adults, is very

19:59

hard to get them to get along. So

20:02

they get along with me, but

20:04

they're very dysfunctional with each other

20:07

because they respect my walk with Christ, and

20:09

I just want them to see the life that I've seen.

20:12

So how do I coach them

20:14

that way? How do I model

20:16

my life that way? But how do I help them?

20:20

Well, I do think, Kimberly, that your model

20:22

is the most important thing because

20:25

even though you may feel like, well,

20:28

they're not paying attention to any to my

20:30

model, the reality is

20:32

the model speaks more loudly even than

20:34

words. But I do think

20:36

also there is a place for conversation.

20:40

And when you have that opportunity to

20:42

them to ask questions of

20:44

them, you know, how do you feel

20:46

about where you are if they're married, how do you feel

20:48

about where you are in your marriage now or

20:50

if they're not married? How do you feel like you

20:53

are in relationship to people that work with

20:55

you? You know, just kind of asking question,

20:57

open ended questions that they can

20:59

choose to come in and share what's

21:01

going on, or they may choose not to.

21:03

But as you engage them and asking

21:06

questions, rather than taking

21:08

the approach of let me tell you something that

21:10

I think would help you, because

21:13

when you ask those open ended questions,

21:15

it gives them a chance to begin

21:17

to reveal themselves to you. And

21:19

where they're hurting. And then in

21:21

that context, you can

21:23

often will have ideas and say,

21:25

well, you know, here's something that really helped me

21:28

in that area, and you can share

21:30

it. So I think particularly with, with

21:33

siblings, you know, grown siblings

21:35

is what I'm hearing you say. The

21:37

question approach is always the best approach

21:40

to is the best place to start.

21:42

Yes.

21:43

But this goes back to something that you

21:45

talk a lot about, Gary, and that is influence

21:47

versus control. You.

21:50

She cannot make her brothers,

21:52

you know, love each other or serve each other

21:54

or have a different opinion about each other or anything,

21:57

but she can influence

21:59

them, right?

22:00

Yeah, absolutely. And that that's really the key

22:03

is that in any in any close relationship,

22:06

we cannot make the other person change,

22:08

but we can model for them a

22:10

different model. And

22:12

our model is an influence

22:14

and conversations we can be an

22:16

influence and but ultimately

22:18

we're all free. I mean, we're free

22:21

to do what Adam and Eve did, just

22:23

ignore God's guidelines and live

22:25

our own lives. And there's always

22:27

a detrimental effect to that. And

22:29

we have to allow family members to be free.

22:32

You know, their parents who raised children

22:34

and they're Christians and strong Christians,

22:36

and they take the children to church and and

22:39

somewhere along the line, you know, in

22:41

the young adulthood, they turn away

22:43

from God, they turn away from the church. And

22:45

sometimes parents say to me, well, what did we do wrong?

22:47

You know, where do we fail? As if,

22:50

you know, if we had been perfect, our kids would

22:52

be perfect, you know? Well,

22:54

you know, we're free. You know, Adam and

22:56

Eve had the best father in the whole

22:58

world. God was their father,

23:00

and they still made wrong decisions. So

23:03

I think as parents,

23:06

we have to recognize, again, we can't make

23:08

our children do anything or turn out

23:10

any way, but we can

23:12

influence them. And and that's

23:14

particularly true in adult, you know, as they're younger.

23:17

Of course we yeah, we can make them do some things,

23:19

but but ultimately

23:21

they have to make choices on their own.

23:23

Kimberly, what's your response to that? Thank

23:25

you.

23:27

I appreciate that because

23:29

I am very adamant,

23:31

like, you should do this. You should do that. And

23:33

as long as they don't receive me, I

23:35

just think it doesn't take root because

23:38

it's feeling forced. Opposed

23:40

to God is

23:42

a gentleman and he's not going to force

23:44

himself. So in this conversation,

23:47

I realized I shouldn't force what I feel

23:49

or what I know, even though I can help them

23:52

on them. Let them talk

23:54

to me and let

23:56

and I receive what they're saying,

23:59

and it would be better for them.

24:00

Yeah, but now comes the hard part right

24:03

now. Now you have to do that.

24:05

And that's what we're talking about today. On building

24:07

relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman.

24:09

Do you identify with what Kimberly

24:12

just mentioned? It means you

24:14

don't control the outcome. You

24:16

can only be part of the positive process

24:19

and allow the other person or members

24:21

of the family to respond.

24:24

Well, do you want a healthy family? That's

24:26

what we're talking about today. I'm building relationships

24:29

with Dr. Gary Chapman, New York

24:31

Times bestselling author of The Five

24:33

Love Languages. If you go to Building

24:35

relationships.us, you'll see our

24:37

featured resource today, Gary's

24:40

book five traits of a Healthy Family.

24:42

Steps you can take to grow closer,

24:44

communicate better, and change the world

24:46

together again. Go to Building relationships.us.

24:50

Today's program originally aired

24:52

on Moody Radio back in July with Dr.

24:55

Chapman and Chris. Let's get back to the

24:57

conversation.

24:58

Gary. At the end of the last segment, I

25:00

made the point that you don't control

25:03

other people's responses. You

25:05

cannot finagle the outcome,

25:07

but you can be faithful to

25:09

the process of, for example,

25:11

communicating well. The

25:14

five love languages or these

25:16

five traits of a healthy family are not

25:18

meant to manipulate somebody to

25:20

do what you think they ought to do.

25:23

Yeah, Chris, I was talking about and we were

25:25

talking about an active attitude of service

25:28

toward the other person. You can't have the

25:30

attitude that if I'll serve her,

25:32

then she'll serve me. No,

25:34

we have an attitude. I

25:36

am going to choose to have an attitude

25:39

of serving not only her, but

25:41

serving people in my workplace and serving

25:43

any opportunity I have in the church world

25:45

and that sort of thing. It's an attitude

25:48

and we choose our attitude. We

25:50

don't choose our emotions. You know, you can have

25:52

negative emotions towards your spouse feeling

25:54

hurt because of the things they've done

25:56

or haven't done, but you can still

25:58

choose an attitude, the attitude of Christ.

26:01

Listen, he loved us while we

26:03

were sinners. You might be

26:05

married to one, you know. So with

26:07

God's help, we can love them and serve

26:09

them. But it's not with the attitude

26:11

of If I'll do this, then they

26:13

will meet my needs. No,

26:16

it's because of our love for them.

26:18

We choose the attitude of Christ and

26:20

so. But the fact is,

26:23

people will be influenced when

26:25

we love them, when they know they don't deserve to

26:27

be loved, they don't deserve the service

26:29

we're giving them. And God uses

26:31

that to touch their hearts. Yeah.

26:33

With Dr. Gary Chapman. Here's an

26:36

on the line and go right ahead.

26:39

Hi. Thanks for having me. The

26:42

word that keeps bringing to my mind,

26:44

you just kind of spoke about is the word

26:47

mercy. And I

26:50

just saw an article and I believe it was

26:52

CNN that said 25%

26:55

of young adults now

26:57

have cut their parents out

26:59

of the picture. I don't know how factual

27:02

that is because you see a lot on

27:04

Facebook, but I do. I

27:07

do have friends, and it's a pretty

27:09

becoming, pretty common. And

27:11

it is so extremely painful.

27:14

And I don't know, in my generation,

27:16

our parents made mistakes,

27:19

many, but we didn't

27:22

cut them off. And I

27:25

know it's a new time and all, and I know

27:27

we always have to humble ourselves

27:29

and recognize our failures and

27:31

ask for forgiveness. But if

27:33

you can't, if they won't

27:36

allow it. There

27:38

just needs to be mercy. And

27:40

I know God can redeem any situation,

27:43

but I think most parents.

27:48

Do their best and. And

27:50

I just I just want

27:52

to say to people listening to

27:54

be merciful to your parents

27:56

as well, because I think also sometimes you

27:58

see these articles about criminals.

28:01

And while they grew up in a, in a hard

28:03

life, well. Is

28:07

that? Make

28:09

it okay. It doesn't

28:11

make it okay. We still have responsibilities.

28:14

Whether things hurt us when we're young

28:16

or not. So I guess mercy and

28:18

just allowing God to heal hearts. But

28:21

I do have compassion for

28:23

parents that have been completely

28:26

cut off, and it seems pretty common.

28:28

Well, it cuts both ways too.

28:30

And because I've heard the same thing with

28:33

if my son or daughter does this, then

28:35

you know they're dead to me. I'm not going to talk to them

28:37

again. So but I think it happens

28:40

maybe a little more often than what

28:42

you're talking about is the kids

28:44

saying, no, I can't do it. That situation was

28:46

toxic. I'm not going to open myself

28:48

up to that again. What do you say about that, Gary?

28:51

Well, I think the hurt and the pain

28:54

is real. We don't want to deny

28:56

that. And yes, all

28:58

parents fail to some degree

29:00

or another. None of us are perfect. But

29:02

I think to make the choice

29:05

just to cut them out of my life because

29:07

of what happened in the past. Or

29:09

maybe what's continuing to happen

29:12

is not the best choice.

29:15

And sometimes, and this may sound

29:17

strange, but I think sometimes

29:19

the first step is

29:22

for the child, the adult child,

29:25

to ask themselves, where

29:27

did I fail? Where

29:29

have I failed to be a child that honors

29:31

parents even though they're not honorable?

29:35

And maybe go back to that parent and

29:37

say, you know, I realize

29:39

I've made a serious mistake in cutting you all

29:41

out of my life. I

29:43

have been hurt deeply, no question about that.

29:46

But it's not a loving response to

29:48

actually cut you out of my life. So

29:51

if you're open and you would like

29:53

for us to have lunch, you know, once every couple

29:56

of weeks or once a month or whatever,

29:58

I'd like to I'd like to continue

30:00

our relationship and see what we

30:02

can learn from each other. Sometimes

30:05

that kind of humility that

30:07

just simply acknowledges, you know,

30:10

that you feel like you've made a wrong choice. Here

30:13

is the first step in the parent

30:15

opening up. And then you as

30:17

you are able to have lunches, then you

30:19

can talk about, you know, and ask

30:21

them, you know, tell me, what was your

30:24

dissatisfaction about me as a

30:26

child as I grew up? What hurts you most

30:28

as I grew up? You know, you

30:31

just open up the door and let them

30:33

share and you do that. Chances

30:35

are, sooner or later the next lunch,

30:37

they're going to say, okay, you tell

30:40

me, where did you feel unloved

30:42

or where did you feel that I hurt you?

30:45

It's that kind of conversation, Chris, that

30:47

leads to reconciliation. When

30:50

we're open to hearing each other's

30:52

hurt and looking back

30:54

on it and acknowledging to each other that

30:56

it was wrong and asking for

30:58

forgiveness. And there can always

31:01

be healing. Now, obviously it takes

31:03

two to heal a

31:05

breached relationship, but somebody

31:07

has to take the initiative and often,

31:10

even if they're 95%

31:12

of the problem, you're only five. You

31:15

apologize for your part, your

31:17

5%. It opens the door

31:20

to the possibility of conversations

31:22

where we can process our feelings.

31:24

So this is and I'm wondering if

31:26

the John who stayed with

31:29

your family saw this. This

31:31

brings up communication, and

31:33

it also highlights listening

31:36

and being inquisitive, you know, asking

31:38

good questions. And then ask listening

31:41

for the answer. How

31:44

important is that communication

31:46

or even being willing to open up

31:48

the communication with somebody else?

31:52

Well, we don't make progress in a relationship

31:54

without communication. You know, communication

31:57

is to a relationship what oxygen

31:59

is to the body. It's an absolute

32:02

necessity. We will never make

32:04

progress if we just keep our distance

32:06

and we don't talk. The relationship

32:09

will continue to be fractured. But

32:11

if we're willing to take a step trying

32:13

to open up an opportunity for conversation,

32:16

and I'm saying that often an

32:18

apology is the first step

32:20

because you're not going at them and blaming

32:23

them and lashing out at them because

32:25

it just gets worse. You have another big argument

32:27

and then you just walk away. And so that's the last time,

32:29

you know, no, no, no. You take

32:31

the humility, the attitude of humility

32:33

and go acknowledge what you consider to be

32:35

your failures and and

32:38

just simply ask for an opportunity that we can

32:40

talk. I want I want to ask you, mom, to share some

32:42

things with me or dad share, share with

32:44

me. What were your frustrations when

32:46

we were at home and growing up? What were you going

32:48

through? And you know, many times

32:51

our parents will be willing to open

32:53

up and let let us

32:55

in on what was going on in their lives.

32:57

And that doesn't excuse it if it was really,

32:59

really bad behavior. But at least

33:01

now you're listening with a different ear

33:03

because you're learning something about what was going

33:05

on inside of their lives.

33:08

Five traits of a healthy family.

33:10

Steps you can take to grow closer, communicate

33:12

better, and change the world together.

33:15

That's our featured resource at building relationships.us.

33:19

Before we take a break, let's hear from

33:21

Alina.

33:22

Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for

33:27

taking my phone call. So

33:29

as I was explaining earlier to the

33:31

lady who answered the phone, um, we

33:34

have a blended family and

33:37

there's a lot of conflict and

33:40

it's been ongoing for many years. Our

33:42

daughter is, um, 12

33:44

going on 13, and

33:47

it's impacting her very

33:50

deeply. Um,

33:53

and we just can't, you

33:55

know, seem to

33:58

get along. And we're the Christians,

34:00

so we look pretty bad.

34:03

Probably in her eyes, too. We're trying

34:05

to raise her as a Christian. And

34:08

so she has like a double life where

34:10

on her biological mom's

34:12

side, there's no Christianity.

34:16

The friendships on that side are not encouraging

34:18

of church or Jesus. Um,

34:21

and so she feels alienated,

34:24

even from God and us when

34:26

she's over there. And then when she's here,

34:28

we don't talk that much about

34:30

what's going on over there. And so

34:33

she's in the middle. But,

34:36

um, I was listening

34:38

to some of the things you were saying, you

34:40

know, about the communication.

34:43

There's no communication. It's

34:47

it's being funneled through the child.

34:50

Um, and we try

34:52

through emails and text messages

34:54

to communicate with mom,

34:57

but, um, she'd rather

34:59

use attorneys and or the child.

35:03

Let me ask you this, Elena is does

35:05

your is the daughter.

35:07

Does she look at your faith

35:09

in your Christianity and see

35:12

things that she doesn't

35:14

want? Or that right now that she's pushing

35:17

back against because she feels

35:19

like this is not this is fake

35:21

to me because of this or that or the other

35:23

thing, is that what she's going through?

35:27

Well. No, she's she's she's

35:29

been going to church since she was two years old.

35:31

And she got baptized in 2022.

35:34

She always had a strong faith

35:36

and been drawn to Jesus.

35:39

And you know, we pray

35:41

and she hasn't said

35:43

anything about what we look

35:45

like. But she's angry

35:47

with God now. She says, I've been praying

35:50

for this family forever,

35:52

and he's ghosting me.

35:55

Um, he's not answering my prayer.

35:57

He doesn't care. And the Bible doesn't

35:59

isn't doing anything for me. Got

36:01

it.

36:02

Okay. And that's a really good way

36:04

of putting it. You tell her. I say that

36:08

she feels like God is ghosting

36:10

her. That's. That puts the

36:12

finger on the nerve that he's

36:14

there, but he doesn't really care. You

36:16

know, Gary, what would you say?

36:18

Yeah. I think if we're talking about her relationship

36:21

with her biological mother and maybe

36:23

her stepfather on that side to

36:27

let her know and say, honey, you know, the

36:29

fact that you're praying that God will work in her

36:31

heart and da da da da da. But

36:33

keep in mind, God doesn't make people

36:35

do things. You know, God

36:37

influences us, and God brings

36:39

people along the way to speak to us, but he doesn't

36:42

make us do right. And so

36:44

even, even in answer to our prayer, because

36:47

God is not going to, you

36:49

know, he gives us freedom to choose.

36:51

And your your biological mother

36:54

has freedom to choose the

36:56

decisions that she makes. So we have to recognize

36:58

that that may be a part of helping her

37:00

understand, you know, why what she perceives

37:03

as unanswered prayer is that

37:05

she's asking God to do something that

37:07

he's not. He's not going to make her change.

37:09

He he will answer prayer in terms of

37:11

bringing people into her lives and

37:13

situations that will be designed

37:16

to help her biological mother

37:18

make wise decisions, but he will not make

37:20

her do that.

37:22

This is building relationships with

37:24

Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the

37:26

New York Times bestseller The Five

37:28

Love Languages. For more ways

37:31

to strengthen relationships, head on over

37:33

to our website. Building relationships.us.

37:36

You'll find the book we're talking about today

37:38

right there. It's titled five traits

37:40

of a Healthy Family. Just go to building

37:42

relationships.us.

37:45

All right.

37:45

We talked about this about a half hour ago,

37:47

and we better keep our promise about revealing

37:50

the fifth trait of a healthy family.

37:52

And this 1st May surprise people as

37:54

well. You talk about the husband being the

37:56

leader of the family, and

37:58

if you say that very loud in today's culture,

38:01

you're going to get called names or people will cancel

38:03

you. It's controversial. Why do you use

38:05

that word leader?

38:08

I think because Chris, the biblical

38:10

word is the husband is the head

38:12

of the wife. And

38:15

contemporary word would be leader, as

38:18

I view that. But I think, again,

38:20

where the pushback is many

38:22

people have misinterpreted that biblical

38:24

concept and some have

38:26

the entity. What do you mean, husband? The leader?

38:28

You know he's not the leader. You know we're

38:30

equals. You know, certainly

38:32

you're equals. We're both made in the image of God

38:35

were equals. But use the biblical

38:37

model. It says the

38:39

husbands, the head of the wife, as Christ

38:41

is the head of the church. What

38:44

did the head of the church do? He

38:47

died for the church. Who

38:50

would not want a leader like that that's

38:52

willing to die for them? You know?

38:55

So if we get the biblical concept of leadership,

38:57

and I spell this out in

38:59

the book, of course, that that he views

39:02

his wife as a partner, an equal partner

39:04

in our relationship where we're on the team

39:06

together and he will communicate

39:08

with his wife. He won't make wild decisions

39:10

on his own. He wants to have two

39:13

minds in making decisions. And

39:15

so he'll talk about that. He'll

39:17

community. He'll put her at the top of his priority

39:19

list. Somebody said, wait a minute,

39:21

I think God's supposed to be at the top of our

39:23

list. Well, he is, but

39:26

when you report to God is a Christian husband,

39:29

God says, oh, well, now let's say you're married.

39:31

So the first thing is, I want you to meet your

39:33

wife's needs. I want you to put her

39:35

first in your life. I want you to

39:37

seek to meet her needs. Whew.

39:40

Okay, well, what wife would not

39:42

want a husband with that attitude? You know,

39:44

honey, I want to find out what I can do to meet.

39:46

Meet your needs. So let's share them with

39:48

me. You know, he's committed to discovering

39:51

his wife's needs and meeting those needs.

39:53

And he sets a model for

39:56

his moral and spiritual values.

39:58

So, you know, a lot a lot of fine details

40:00

there in terms of applying all of this.

40:03

But don't ever forget the

40:05

the biblical concept of the husband as the leader

40:08

does not mean that he

40:10

makes all the decisions and tells the wife

40:12

what to do. No no no no no no. He

40:15

sees it as a partner and he wants

40:17

to make decisions together with her.

40:19

And he has an attitude

40:22

of wanting to give his life

40:24

to enrich her life. Exactly what Jesus

40:27

did. Who was the head of the church. So

40:29

we get that concept. I think wives

40:31

do not oppose that. Wives

40:33

would long for a husband who has the

40:35

attitude of Christ.

40:37

Which takes us to Kyle. Kyle,

40:39

what's your question for Dr. Chapman?

40:43

Well, I'm just

40:45

processing all of what I've heard the last 15

40:47

or 20 minutes, and I have

40:50

two of my four daughters. Ten

40:53

years ago, after 25 years, I went through

40:55

divorce. And. And so I've got

40:57

a daughter that has not spoken to me in two

40:59

years and one about eight. And

41:02

so my contention

41:04

is I just live my life. I can't rush the

41:06

fruit. I heard a few of your

41:08

nuggets here in the last 15 minutes. Your

41:10

book is sounds awesome, but

41:13

I just thought I'd just check in with you

41:15

for additional wisdom. Well aware

41:17

of all the love languages.

41:18

So the two daughters that are

41:21

estranged are adults now

41:23

it looks like they're in their late

41:25

20s, early 30s. So,

41:28

Gary, what what would you say?

41:30

Yeah. And I hear you saying that happened after the divorce.

41:33

Correct? Yeah.

41:35

Yeah. It's not. It's not unusual

41:38

that adult children

41:40

whose whose parents divorce

41:42

will blame one of those parents

41:45

for, you know, for the divorce. And

41:47

sometimes they make the poor decision of

41:49

just cutting off that parent because they're

41:51

just so upset and angry that you would,

41:54

you know, divorce my mother, that that kind

41:56

of thing. So that may be involved

41:58

in with your daughter. I don't

42:00

know, because I can't read their hearts in their minds.

42:02

But and again, you're right

42:05

in that you cannot make them reach

42:08

out to you and be involved with them. But

42:10

I do think this, I think

42:12

to to say to them, as you have would

42:15

have an opportunity. I just want

42:17

you to know, I'm empathetic

42:19

with the fact that she withdrew from

42:21

me because of the divorce and all

42:23

that went on there, and I can see how

42:25

that was very painful to you and very hurtful

42:27

to you. And, you

42:29

know, I can't make you have a relationship with

42:31

me, but I want you to know, I do love

42:33

you. And if there's anything I can ever do to

42:35

help you, I want to do it. You know, it's that

42:38

kind of approach may begin to soften

42:40

their hearts so that they will again

42:42

say, well, maybe we ought to. Let's

42:45

have lunch together. So it's

42:47

those kind of baby steps, but it comes, I think,

42:49

with your being real to say, you know, honey,

42:51

I can't make you accept

42:54

me and have a relationship with me and I can

42:56

understand, you know, some of the hurt

42:58

that you've gone through. That approach is the better

43:00

approach.

43:01

And it's taken a long time for all of that hurt

43:03

to to fester and to cause

43:05

the fracture. So for

43:08

Kyle to be patient and

43:10

to as he moves toward them

43:12

is not going to be an overnight process. As

43:14

I'm sure Kyle already knows, you're

43:16

playing for the fourth quarter. You know, you're

43:18

you're playing for the long game,

43:21

right, Gary?

43:22

Yeah, absolutely, Chris. And so

43:24

you never know because we can't make our adult

43:26

children, you know, change their hearts and minds toward

43:28

us. But we can have a warm attitude

43:31

and an understanding attitude toward

43:33

them.

43:34

Well, Gary, thank you for sharing your heart

43:36

in this hour, for opening up your home all

43:39

those years ago. Imagine what

43:41

wouldn't have happened if you had said

43:43

no to that college graduate.

43:45

This would be a whole different program,

43:48

a different experience for you,

43:50

isn't it?

43:51

Well, it would, Chris. And he told me he

43:53

has made a tremendous impact upon his

43:55

life. So it was a fun time

43:57

and we really enjoyed it. And

43:59

and he did it and it had an impact on our

44:02

children as well. You.

44:04

Will you find the featured resource from

44:07

today at our website? Building relationships.us.

44:10

The full title is five traits of

44:12

a Healthy Family. Steps you can

44:14

take to grow closer, communicate better,

44:16

and change the world together.

44:18

Just go to building relationships.us.

44:22

And next week the life changing

44:24

practice of paying attention. Learn

44:26

to listen to your day in

44:28

one week.

44:30

A big thank you to our production team,

44:32

Steve Wick and Janice. Backing and thanks

44:34

to Ryan McConaughey and Tricia McMillan

44:36

from Chris Fabry. Live. Building

44:38

relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman

44:40

is a production of Moody Radio in

44:43

association with Moody Publishers,

44:45

a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.

44:47

Thanks for listening.