0:00

Was recently dating a friend who attends

0:03

a different denomination.

0:04

How serious of an issue is this?

0:07

He has so much anger

0:09

in his heart.

0:10

I love her more than anything.

0:12

I want to save our marriage.

0:19

Welcome to building relationships

0:21

with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of the New

0:23

York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages.

0:26

Today we open the listener line and hear from

0:28

you as you post questions for trusted

0:30

pastor, counselor, and author doctor Gary

0:33

Chapman. And we have some great questions

0:35

today on our March edition of Dear

0:37

Gary.

0:38

And it's our hope that something you hear today

0:40

will help you in your marriage and your

0:42

parenting. Maybe in your singleness.

0:44

Especially on this Easter weekend

0:47

when we celebrate the resurrection power

0:49

God exhibited in Jesus.

0:51

That same power is available

0:54

to you and me, and I think you're

0:56

going to hear some of that in Gary's answers today,

0:58

that there's real hope because

1:00

of the real risen Lord.

1:03

If you go to building relationships with

1:05

us, you'll find more simple ways

1:07

to strengthen your relationships. Like the book

1:09

written by Doctor Chapman and Shannon Warden

1:11

titled the DIY Guide to Building

1:13

a Family That Lasts. Just go to

1:15

building relationships with us,

1:17

Gary. We talked about that book here before.

1:20

Tell me again, what do you hope parents take

1:22

away from this do it yourself

1:25

guide?

1:26

Well, you know, I want to emphasize

1:28

the DIY part, but also explain

1:30

it. You

1:32

know, the scriptures say without God we

1:34

can do nothing. So it's not

1:36

that you're doing parenting by yourself,

1:39

but these are practical things

1:41

that you can do in cooperation

1:44

with God, in raising your

1:46

children and in having a healthy

1:48

marriage. Uh, it's really, really

1:50

practical book. My my co-author,

1:53

I've known for many years. She used to be on our

1:55

staff as a counselor. She's now

1:58

a counselor in another place in our city.

2:00

But it's just a really, really

2:02

practical. That's what I would suggest. It's giving

2:04

you things you can actually do

2:07

that will enhance your parenting and enhance

2:09

your relationship and your marriage.

2:11

The DIY Guide to Building

2:14

a Family That Lasts. You'll find

2:16

it at the website. Building relationships

2:18

with us again. Building relationships

2:21

with us. Well, on our Dear Gary broadcast,

2:24

we take your calls and remember

2:26

you can get involved by leaving a message

2:29

for Gary at the number 866424.

2:32

Gary, we'd love to hear from you. Today

2:35

we have three calls

2:37

about spiritual mismatches.

2:39

So we're going to go through all three of these

2:42

in order. The first is a wife

2:44

who had this to say.

2:46

Hi, Gary. So the past

2:49

about a year and a half, I've really fallen

2:51

in love with the word, with Jesus,

2:53

of getting closer to God. And

2:55

I have a six year old and one year old who I am trying

2:58

to build a relationship with God, with

3:00

him. And my husband is just not.

3:03

Putting God in the center of our marriage or in our

3:05

family. He doesn't find

3:07

it be important. Um,

3:10

going to church for him is just like an action.

3:12

It's just for a show.

3:14

Just for show. Now, her call cut

3:16

off right there. But my guess is, Gary,

3:18

you've got enough of the situation

3:20

to respond. What would you say to her?

3:23

Well, first of all, encourage that

3:25

she is growing in her relationship

3:27

with God because that's

3:29

always a positive. The other thing

3:31

I would say is just remember, we

3:34

cannot make people

3:36

do things that we think would be appropriate,

3:39

you know, for them. Uh,

3:41

one of the things I heard her say was he's reluctant

3:43

to go to church because he sees it as just

3:46

kind of a formality or a ritual.

3:48

The first thing I'd say is, don't preach to him.

3:51

Don't preach to him. It's not going. It's not

3:53

going to help you demonstrate

3:56

to him what your relationship

3:58

with God is doing in your life.

4:01

If he begins to see you

4:03

being kind, as

4:05

the Scripture say, be kind to one another.

4:08

Uh, you know, treat it. Love your enemies.

4:11

He sees you loving

4:13

him unconditionally, speaking

4:15

his love language on a regular basis,

4:18

affirming him for the positive things

4:20

you do see in his life. It

4:22

will have a far more positive impact

4:25

on his life than complaining

4:27

to him about his not going to

4:29

church and not being a spiritual leader in the home.

4:31

So you're going to influence him

4:34

one way or the other. I'm just saying,

4:36

let's have a positive influence by demonstrating

4:38

to him the attitude of Christ,

4:41

of loving him in spite of the fact

4:43

that he's not doing the things that you really

4:45

wish he would do when he sees

4:47

Christ changing your life. It's

4:50

going to have an impact on him. Now, again,

4:52

you can't make him. You can't make him turn

4:54

to God. But that kind

4:56

of example, it's going to be far more

4:58

impactful in a positive way.

5:01

And you can pray, pray, pray and

5:03

get other people to pray, pray, pray and

5:05

and trust God in the middle of

5:07

the struggle so that that's the first

5:09

spiritual mismatch in a marriage.

5:12

Now here comes the second

5:14

one. Caller two is in a dating

5:17

relationship.

5:19

Hi, Gary. Uh, I just had a question.

5:21

I'm listening to the program on the radio. I really

5:23

appreciate the things that you've shared

5:25

over the years, but, um, I was

5:28

recently dating a friend, um, who

5:30

attends, uh, different denomination,

5:33

just as a member of beliefs

5:35

about, um, what

5:37

Scripture teaches in terms of being

5:39

filled with the Holy Spirit as part of

5:41

every believer and just speaking

5:43

in tongues, being an evidence of that, as

5:46

well as just miracles and healing and so

5:48

forth. Everything else we agree on,

5:50

uh, very strongly in terms of what

5:52

it means to follow Christ and, uh, just

5:55

love for him and love for others,

5:57

particularly as believers for each other. But

5:59

that was just an area of particularly

6:01

more division for her and for myself.

6:04

Um, just wondered if you have any insight in terms of

6:07

believers from different backgrounds,

6:09

how to navigate that as brothers and

6:11

sisters in Christ? Thank you.

6:15

Well, this is a very common question. I think

6:17

if people are serious about their relationship

6:20

with God than if

6:22

they're Christians, both Christians, and

6:24

they differ on certain issues

6:26

about the Christian faith. Let's

6:29

face it, that's why there are denominations,

6:31

is because we disagree on

6:33

certain aspects of the Christian life and

6:35

certain understandings of the scriptures.

6:38

I think it's good to discuss those

6:40

things. I think it's I'm really glad

6:43

that in your dating relationship, you're dealing

6:45

with those issues because

6:47

all of these things are important. It's

6:49

just that some people put more importance

6:51

on these things than others, and

6:54

actually differ on some of these things

6:56

than others. And we have to think

6:58

in terms of if you're dating, you have to think in

7:00

terms of, am I willing

7:03

to commit myself to this kind of relationship,

7:05

even though we disagree on these

7:07

things for

7:10

the rest of my life? Don't

7:12

think you're going to get married and change them.

7:15

And they should not get married thinking they're going

7:18

to change you and make you like

7:20

they are. I think being

7:22

realistic about this, this

7:24

is the issues that you you brought up

7:26

and realizing, yes, Christians do

7:28

disagree. That's why some people are in

7:30

that denomination and others are in the nomination.

7:32

I mean, we are members

7:35

of the same family. We believe

7:37

in Jesus Christ, and the forgiveness

7:39

is comes through what he did on the cross.

7:41

But we do differ on some significant

7:43

things, and you have to decide

7:46

how significant they are. But

7:48

again, don't ever think

7:50

that I'll marry them and

7:52

they'll change because

7:54

that's not likely to happen.

7:57

Thinking about the tongues thing. If

7:59

a person believes

8:01

that you if you're a Christian, you're

8:03

filled with the Holy Spirit. You will be able to speak

8:06

in tongues if that's what you believe. Then,

8:09

ten years down the road, he's not speaking

8:11

in tongues. You know, you question if

8:13

he's a Christian or not. I'm not saying

8:15

that those two people can't be married

8:17

together and love each other for their entire

8:20

lives, but that's going to put a strain

8:22

on that marriage in some

8:24

way, don't you think?

8:26

Absolutely, Chris. And for me, that's

8:28

the value of dating, you

8:30

know, and not every culture has dating,

8:32

but in our culture we do.

8:35

And I think that's the purpose of it is

8:37

to talk about real issues

8:39

and things. We believe and we believe

8:41

strongly, and how much we disagree

8:44

on certain things and how strongly we disagree

8:46

on them. And yes, there

8:49

are there are places that just say, well,

8:51

you know, I do have love feelings

8:53

for you. You know, that in love thing.

8:56

But that's not that's not the foundation

8:58

for marriage, being in love. You

9:01

can be in love with somebody that's not even a Christian.

9:03

And you are, which is a radical

9:05

difference. Don't ignore

9:07

those things. I guess it's what I'm saying.

9:10

The process of dating leads us either

9:12

to where we are willing to make a commitment, and

9:14

ready to make a commitment and feel like that,

9:17

that we have enough in common and that this

9:19

thing is not going to be divisive because

9:21

it can be, and it likely will

9:23

be divisive.

9:25

Gary, this next question is so

9:28

vulnerable, and I'm hoping

9:30

that you have some good advice for this

9:32

caller who is questioning whether

9:34

to move ahead with marriage

9:36

plans.

9:38

Hey Gary, my fiance

9:41

and I are looking to get

9:43

married and we align on

9:45

all the primary theological,

9:48

um, tenets of our faith. We believe in the gospel.

9:50

We affirm the authority of God's Word.

9:53

Uh, but we come from two different

9:55

denominational backgrounds. Uh, he

9:57

was raised Church of Christ, and I come from a Baptist

9:59

background. Um, and we

10:02

do not agree on the meaning of baptism.

10:05

Um, he sees it as a instrument

10:08

in our salvation, while I see it as

10:10

a symbol of our salvation.

10:12

And it's an ongoing conversation.

10:14

But I understand,

10:16

uh, through listening to your podcast, that unresolved

10:19

issues can lead to bitterness. And so my question

10:21

for you is how serious

10:23

of an issue is this? And,

10:25

um, wisdom or counsel would you provide

10:28

in how we can seek unity and,

10:31

um, yeah, work through this.

10:33

Appreciate your help. God bless.

10:36

Well, I think that's a common question.

10:38

When people are dating someone

10:41

of a denomination where they disagree

10:43

on some pretty heavy duty things,

10:46

such as baptism. Is baptism

10:48

a necessity for salvation?

10:51

Or are we saved simply by

10:53

faith in what Christ did on the cross for

10:55

us? And baptism is simply a

10:57

proclamation, public proclamation

11:00

that we have trusted Christ and turned

11:02

our lives over to him. And

11:04

it is a divisive issue. That's

11:06

why we have two different denominations.

11:09

You know, you mentioned the two that you mentioned,

11:12

and there are other reasons why we have other denominations,

11:15

because there are other things on which people

11:17

disagree and feel strongly about. So

11:20

yeah, I think this is an issue also

11:22

that that is has to be considered.

11:25

Here's the other part of that. When

11:28

you get married, which church

11:30

are you going to go to? And

11:32

if you go to his church, you're going to feel uncomfortable

11:35

when you hear the proclamation

11:37

that he you know, his perspective.

11:39

And when he comes to your church, he's going to feel

11:41

like you all are not really Christians, you know, or

11:44

he's questioning whether you are.

11:46

Uh, but.

11:47

And then children, then the children come along

11:50

and you've got to decide then. Yeah.

11:52

You got another another problem. I haven't

11:54

actually known people where he goes to after

11:56

they get married. He goes to his church. She goes to her church.

11:59

Well, I do too. I don't I don't think that's good.

12:01

I just don't think that's good. You know, uh,

12:03

I think we need to be together in

12:06

our walk with God. So, yeah,

12:08

I think an issue like this in

12:10

terms of a marriage could be really

12:12

a decisive point to say.

12:15

I just don't see how

12:17

we can walk together on

12:20

this issue and it not be

12:22

troublesome to us, you know,

12:24

through the years. Now, other

12:27

people may feel differently about it, and I'm certainly

12:29

open to that. I do think

12:31

it's a it's an issue that is that

12:33

needs to be deeply considered before

12:35

you would decide actually to marry.

12:38

Right. And I told you before

12:40

we started here, Gary, I have

12:42

specific memories of

12:45

early part of my childhood

12:47

when my mother, she was very much

12:50

in that camp that she talks about

12:52

her fiancé being and

12:54

would argue there was a friend

12:57

that my mom had named Mildred. Mildred

12:59

Blake and Mildred would argue with

13:01

my mother, and my mom

13:03

could argue. Acts 238 to up

13:05

and down. And she started listening

13:07

to back to the Bible broadcast

13:10

and some other other Christian broadcast

13:12

on radio. And I think that's one of the reasons

13:14

why I do radio today, is

13:17

because it made such an impact on

13:19

her about, do I

13:21

add something to what Jesus

13:23

did, you know, do I have to do a work

13:25

for God in order for him to receive

13:27

me, or is what he did

13:30

sufficient? And it

13:32

was after a very long time,

13:34

and these conversations that they had

13:36

that my mother and father

13:39

realized in Ephesians

13:41

289, you know, and appropriated

13:43

that and actually

13:45

left that church, you know, left that

13:48

teaching and moved moved to

13:50

a different one. But it was a

13:52

very difficult struggle for them

13:54

to get to that place. Yeah.

13:57

Um, and so I just say that not to

13:59

not to twist anybody's arm to agree with

14:01

me theologically, but to think that

14:03

through, as you just said, think it through.

14:05

What is it going to look like

14:08

five years down the road, ten years

14:10

down the road? Because that's not going

14:12

to go away, right?

14:13

Yeah, absolutely, Chris. That's

14:15

why I think, you know, in the dating

14:17

process, that's what we're looking for.

14:20

How compatible are we in

14:22

beliefs that are the most

14:24

important area of

14:26

our lives. And that is our

14:28

belief in God, our belief in

14:31

salvation through Jesus Christ and Him

14:33

alone. So, you know, these

14:35

these are these are big issues that we have

14:37

to discuss.

14:38

Well, if you disagree with Doctor Chapman here,

14:40

you call him 866424.

14:42

Gary, leave a message

14:44

and we'll see if we can't get to your

14:47

question. Your comment on

14:49

a future. Dear Gary broadcast (866) 424-4279.

14:55

Since we are on a roll with controversial

14:57

questions and they're kind of theological, let's

14:59

hear this next call from a listener

15:02

who has a question about church leadership

15:04

and remarriage.

15:07

Hi, Gary. Good day. God

15:09

bless. I have a

15:11

question. It is regarding

15:13

marriage or second marriage,

15:15

and if so, can this

15:18

person still be

15:20

a pastor or pastor

15:22

of a church? It's been a bit

15:24

of a conflict between families

15:27

with me and my husband, and I'm very

15:30

confused. As

15:32

to what the correct answer is.

15:34

I mean, I know exactly what the Bible tells me.

15:37

I'm calling to see if somebody with more experience

15:39

like yourself can maybe shed

15:41

a little more light on this

15:44

matter. Thank you for.

15:47

Well, I'm not totally sure if she's saying

15:49

that she is married to someone

15:51

who is a pastor, or

15:53

was a pastor and has

15:55

now or is now in a second marriage,

15:58

and she's asking, can he biblically

16:00

be a pastor? And

16:02

she says she knows what the Scripture says, which

16:04

is the idea that pretty clearly

16:07

that a pastor should be the

16:09

husband of one wife. Now

16:12

people have interpreted that in different

16:14

ways. It can

16:16

be one wife at a time or

16:19

some other interpretation of

16:21

that. My own personal opinion

16:23

of that is that if a person

16:26

has is married the second time, they are

16:28

not qualified to be a pastor. But

16:30

I understand that there are others

16:33

who disagree with that. We

16:35

all are responsible for what we believe,

16:37

and we should study the scriptures

16:39

very carefully to try

16:41

to make sure that what we believe

16:44

is indeed in keeping with Scripture.

16:46

So that's basically all I can say

16:48

about that is, you know, to me,

16:51

the scriptures teach clearly that

16:53

the pastor, a pastor, is

16:55

to be the husband of one wife.

16:58

And that would be not not your

17:00

your wife dies and you

17:02

remarry like from divorce,

17:05

right?

17:05

Right, right, right. Because,

17:07

you know, when a when a wife

17:09

dies, that's a whole different story,

17:12

you know, but obviously this is

17:14

an issue in the Christian church. There's no question

17:16

about it. It is divided in many Christians.

17:19

Well, I'm glad we felt free

17:21

to ask those kinds of questions. That's

17:24

what we love to hear. 866424

17:27

Gary. Our next caller has

17:29

a disagreement with you, Gary. We

17:31

like those two. It makes it more interesting.

17:34

At least he thinks he disagrees with you about

17:36

he term, what he terms. Just accepting

17:39

others. Here we go.

17:41

Hi, Gary. I know

17:43

you just talk about people just

17:46

accepting what they

17:48

do. You know, my

17:50

kid, one lady called and said her son

17:53

was supposed to be a Christian, but

17:56

now he's just living with a girl,

17:58

and she wants to know. You know, what to do.

18:02

I know you talked about being

18:04

kind and gentle and all that,

18:06

but Paul says, if

18:08

if a believer is

18:11

living in complete rebellion

18:15

to cut them off, don't

18:17

have nothing to do with them. Don't

18:20

even eat with them. How do

18:22

you justify telling people that

18:25

if they're having problems with a

18:27

believer living in

18:29

sin, and

18:31

just be nice to them and

18:35

kind of accept it?

18:37

Of course I don't. I hope I didn't give the

18:39

impression you accept what they're

18:41

doing. We don't accept

18:44

what they're doing. I think,

18:46

however, if we're parents

18:48

and our children are doing

18:50

things that are non-biblical,

18:53

I don't think we should cut them off

18:55

because we cannot have any influence

18:58

on them if we cut them off. Jesus

19:01

himself ate with sinners.

19:04

Uh, let's face it. He

19:06

spent time with sinners. Uh,

19:09

so I don't think we should.

19:11

We should cut off our children simply

19:13

because they're doing things that we disagree with.

19:15

Now, we certainly need to verbalize

19:18

what we believe. We need to let them know

19:20

that we do not agree with what they're doing,

19:23

and we're praying for them that

19:25

God will convict them and will bring them

19:27

to a place of doing what the

19:29

scriptures say, whatever the topic is.

19:31

I don't think we accept what they're doing,

19:34

but I don't think that we cut them off

19:36

and have nothing to do with them as parents

19:39

because Jesus said, love

19:41

your enemies, even if they are an

19:43

enemy. Uh, we're still to

19:45

love them. So it's a matter of how

19:47

are we going to express that love? And

19:50

I don't think you express love simply by

19:52

saying, I'll have nothing to do with you.

19:54

I don't want you in my house anymore. I don't want to

19:56

see you again until you get this straightened

19:58

out. Yes. I don't think

20:01

that's the way Jesus would have responded.

20:03

On the other hand, I think he might be

20:05

talking about church discipline.

20:07

You know, there's somebody in the body

20:09

who is

20:12

is sinning in an open way

20:14

or, you know, uh,

20:16

and they they don't respond to

20:19

the loving encouragement

20:21

from the leadership, you know, to, to

20:23

change behavior. And they just in

20:26

that case, there's church discipline,

20:28

right?

20:29

Yeah. In fact, uh, Matthew 18,

20:31

Jesus said, uh, you if

20:34

someone's sinning, you approach

20:36

them. If they repent, you forgive them. If

20:38

they don't, you take somebody with you

20:40

and you go talk to them again. And

20:43

then if they don't respond, you tell

20:45

the church, then the implication

20:47

is the church will send somebody. Then if

20:49

they don't respond, he said, treat

20:51

them as a pagan. Well,

20:53

what do you do with pagans? You

20:55

pray for pagans, you

20:57

pray for pagans. You

21:00

know, you give food to hungry

21:02

pagans. You know you return

21:04

good for evil. Uh, so,

21:06

uh, yes. But I do think certainly

21:08

in terms of church fellowship, there

21:10

is a place for, you know, that we we

21:13

we have to take some kind of action

21:15

to say, you know, you are not you're no longer

21:17

in fellowship with this church because

21:19

of your living in sin. And we are

21:21

praying for you and we if there's anything

21:23

we can do to help you, we want to help you. But

21:26

we can't accept your behavior because we've

21:28

done everything we know to help you turn

21:30

back to God. And

21:32

and so we're here. We're always here

21:34

and always available for you. So yeah,

21:36

I think there's there's that thing

21:38

of standing for the truth,

21:41

but being open to the

21:43

possibility that forgiveness can

21:45

come because if they repent,

21:47

God will forgive them. I don't care what they've

21:49

done. And we must also always

21:51

stand ready to forgive pagans

21:54

when they turn to God.

21:56

And I was glad that you called with that question,

21:58

because it you know, there's something

22:00

about the, you know, the disagreement or

22:02

the way that you heard what Doctor Chapman said,

22:04

that he can clarify here. I

22:07

want you to respond to an email. Gary,

22:09

uh, a listener heard a conversation with Kia

22:11

Stevens. We had her on this program

22:13

about overcoming father wounds.

22:16

And here's what he says. This past

22:18

August, after 22 years of marriage,

22:20

our struggles came to a head. We've been

22:22

in counseling since August. We're

22:24

working on unpacking our past wounds

22:27

and gaining understanding of how

22:29

those wounds have impacted how

22:31

we work as a couple. This has been one of the darkest

22:33

and stormiest seasons of my life.

22:36

I'm still struggling as it relates to

22:38

how we move forward. We don't

22:40

have any acute incidents

22:42

like physical abuse

22:45

or substance abuse, pornography, infidelity,

22:48

he says. In our marriage, it's more of a

22:50

low hum of miscommunication,

22:53

exacerbated by the wounds

22:55

we both bring to the table. My

22:57

wife describes it from her perspective

22:59

as death by a million paper

23:01

cuts. I'm heartbroken to

23:03

be learning just how much my deficit

23:06

in the area of emotional maturity

23:08

and subsequent communication

23:10

struggles have injured my

23:13

wife. I feel like I've been in

23:15

a thick, disorienting fog since

23:17

August, with very few glimpses

23:19

of the fog receiving receding.

23:21

I'm trying to hold on to hopefulness,

23:24

and I know God can and does often

23:26

reconcile strained relationships and

23:28

heals wounded and injured

23:30

hearts. What would you say to him?

23:34

Well, first of all, I'm encouraged that

23:36

they're going for counseling. Because

23:39

when you have long term, long

23:41

standing, uh,

23:44

frustrations and disagreements

23:46

and never able to resolve them yourself,

23:49

you need an outside

23:51

party who is empathetic

23:53

with each of you, because

23:56

each of you belong to God,

23:58

and God loves each of you. And

24:00

so an outside person can

24:02

help you understand each other

24:05

and understand yourself

24:07

and what perhaps is behind

24:10

some of your behavior. So

24:12

I am really encouraged that you're going for

24:14

counseling. I would not give up,

24:16

even if you feel like, well, we're not making

24:18

a whole lot of progress. Uh, I

24:20

would continue the process because it

24:23

takes time to work

24:25

through the pain and the hurt

24:27

of the past. The other thing I

24:29

would say is, uh, I'm assuming both

24:31

of you are Christians. Uh, if you

24:33

are, I would say every day

24:35

ask God to give you

24:38

the attitude of Christ

24:40

toward your spouse. That's

24:42

what we're encouraged to do. And if in

24:44

Philippians chapter two, let this

24:47

attitude be in you, which was also in

24:49

Christ Jesus, who though he was

24:51

God, he didn't demand his

24:53

rights as God, but

24:55

he emptied himself and became a man.

24:58

And once he got on level ground with us,

25:00

he stepped down further to the death on the cross.

25:03

Let that attitude be in you. So

25:05

if you ask God to give you the attitude of Christ

25:09

that I am in this marriage to you,

25:11

and I want to do everything I can

25:13

to help you become the person

25:15

you believe God wants you to be. If

25:18

each of you pray that prayer,

25:20

I believe God will change your attitude

25:22

and he will give you an attitude

25:25

that's not selfishness. Not

25:27

wanting your way, but wanting to

25:29

know how can I best serve the other person?

25:33

And I believe that attitude

25:35

can change your life.

25:43

You're listening to the Building Relationships

25:45

podcast. Find out more about Gary

25:47

when he might be coming to your area.

25:49

Take the love language assessment and much

25:52

more at Building Relationships us.

25:55

You'll also find today's featured resource

25:57

there, the book by Doctor Chapman and Shannon

25:59

Warden, the do it yourself Guide

26:01

to Building a Family that lasts 12

26:04

tools for improving your home Life.

26:06

Again, go to Building Relationships

26:08

us.

26:10

This is our Dear Gary broadcast

26:12

for March and we would love to hear from

26:14

you. If you have a question or maybe a

26:16

follow up to something that you've heard today on the

26:18

program, call the number 1866424

26:22

Gary and leave a message. We may

26:24

use your question here on the program.

26:27

Call 1-866-424-4279.

26:34

This is a really difficult one.

26:36

Gary, listen to the heart of this mom

26:38

who called us recently.

26:41

Doctor Gary. I've been listening to your podcast

26:43

since. Over a year ago.

26:45

My son left the house when he turned

26:47

18. It was

26:49

so painful. He

26:53

has so much anger. Hateful,

26:56

bitter in his heart.

26:59

We lost his dad

27:02

2015, so

27:04

he was only 11 years old. As

27:07

a single mother, I struggled.

27:10

I had so much anger. I

27:12

was angry, the situation. I

27:15

was working full time, back to

27:17

school, full time, pursuing my, um,

27:20

my master's degree. It was

27:22

really, really hard time for

27:24

all of us. I didn't realize

27:26

how much trauma he had

27:28

in his heart. And

27:31

when he's 18, she

27:34

just decide not to speak

27:36

to me again. No matter

27:38

what I do, send him letters

27:41

telling him a story, what I've done. And

27:44

he just kept reliving

27:47

a traumatized moment

27:49

in the past. A lot of background.

27:52

I'm from another

27:54

country. There were

27:56

some culture differences.

27:59

Um, not sure he really

28:02

understood my culture, but

28:04

he took as offensive

28:06

as a minority

28:09

mom, single mother,

28:11

and I had.

28:14

Traumatized on my end trying

28:17

to counseling, but I

28:19

found God. Only

28:21

God can heal my heart. But

28:24

anyhow, he is not

28:27

speaking to me at all. All

28:29

he does is saying

28:31

horrible things about me when

28:33

I return to the home, no matter

28:35

what we do. He's

28:38

in college now. He wants to

28:40

military so he can pay

28:43

for his college. Um,

28:45

as of now, I really want to help him,

28:48

but I don't really know I should.

28:52

Um. I just don't know what to

28:54

do. Um, I

28:56

pray every day. I

28:58

told the God. I'm sorry, but

29:02

I just want some hope. Sorry

29:05

about that. Uh, thank

29:07

you for all you do. I have read a book

29:09

less than your podcast. Uh,

29:12

all the time. Um. I

29:14

know you're awesome, counselor and pastor.

29:17

Just pray for us. Thank

29:19

you.

29:21

Well, Chris, your heart has to go out to

29:24

this. Mom. She's

29:26

recognizing that some of her

29:28

behavior, or at least her behavior, was

29:31

a part of what

29:34

caused her son, Origen, to

29:36

have an angry attitude toward

29:38

her. The biblical

29:40

story that comes to my mind when I

29:42

hear this mother is the story

29:44

of the prodigal son, who

29:46

also left his his

29:49

father and his family and

29:52

ask his father to go ahead and give me my

29:54

inheritance now. And his father

29:56

did, and he wasted

29:58

all that his father had given him, ended

30:00

up in the hog pan, and

30:03

not only feeding the pigs, but also

30:05

eating some of the things that the pigs were eating.

30:08

And finally he decided

30:10

he would go home and

30:13

asked his father just

30:15

to give him a job on the farm. It's

30:18

always been interesting to me that father did

30:20

not run after him. He

30:22

did not go try to find him

30:24

and make him do right. He

30:27

kept the farm going. He kept growing

30:29

himself so that when the son

30:32

came home, there was a place to come

30:34

home to. So

30:36

in this situation, I

30:39

think I understand your hurt,

30:41

your pain, because

30:44

you see that you are at least partially

30:46

responsible for his anger. But

30:48

don't take the whole blame of that, because

30:51

yes, you may have impacted him

30:53

in a negative way and that may

30:55

be the source of some of his anger,

30:57

but we're responsible for

30:59

handling our own anger. And

31:01

so you've repented of your anger

31:04

and the way you've treated him,

31:06

and God has forgiven you. If you've

31:08

asked him, God has forgiven you. It's

31:10

your son that's not forgiving you, but

31:13

you can't make somebody forgive you. Forgiveness

31:15

is a choice. We can apologize,

31:18

but we can't make them respond

31:21

in forgiveness. God

31:23

has to bring him to the place where

31:26

he's willing to forgive you,

31:28

and then also willing to confess his

31:30

own failures in being angry with

31:32

you. So I think prayer

31:35

is obviously one of God's methods,

31:37

and I'm sure you have been praying for

31:39

him and I will. I would encourage

31:42

you to continue praying for him. I

31:44

think you seeing a counselor,

31:46

I think you are seeing a counselor. Perhaps

31:48

you were, but reaching out

31:50

to somebody, a counselor, a pastor,

31:53

a close friend, somebody

31:55

who can help you process your

31:57

own emotions. Uh, because

32:00

God doesn't want you to live the

32:02

next ten years of your life broken

32:05

hearted and being not able to

32:07

function, not able to walk with God

32:09

and use your talents to help other

32:11

people. God doesn't want that.

32:14

He wants you to live

32:16

the life he has planned for you.

32:19

Uh, you can't control your

32:21

son, and God's not going to make

32:23

your son do right

32:25

and come back. But God

32:27

wants to help you work through your pain

32:29

and your hurt and know that God

32:32

loves you. God is forgiven you

32:34

and what you want to do now

32:36

is to walk closely with God.

32:39

Find people that you can be involved with

32:41

in a church and a small group,

32:43

a family, uh, in the

32:45

church, and walk together with

32:48

God to discover things you

32:50

can do now to minister to

32:52

other people if your son ever

32:54

returns, if God works in his heart

32:56

and he returns, you're going to stand

32:58

there with open arms and be ready to

33:00

receive him, just like the father of

33:02

the prodigal son did in the Bible. So

33:05

those are my thoughts. I'm empathetic with

33:07

where you are, but I do pray

33:10

and hope that you will continue to reach

33:12

out for help in processing

33:14

those emotions so that you can

33:16

live your life. Don't allow your son's

33:18

behavior to control

33:20

your behavior.

33:23

What great advice. That's not to Gary Chapman.

33:25

This is building relationships. You'll find

33:28

us online building relationships

33:30

with us. Here's a call

33:32

from a listener in Europe, Gary.

33:34

And first let me say his English

33:36

is fantastic. Unfortunately,

33:39

his question is kind of a desperate

33:41

situation. Here's his call.

33:44

Hi, Gary. Um, thank.

33:46

You for the opportunity to explain my

33:48

situation to you and to ask you

33:51

a question. My

33:53

wife moved out completely unexpectedly

33:56

for me six weeks ago. Up

33:59

to this point, she has never told

34:01

me that she was unhappy

34:03

or questioned our marriage. Um,

34:06

she now tells me she has

34:08

negative feelings for me and that

34:10

her love has grown cold. I

34:13

recognize the mistakes I've

34:16

made, and I'm willing to do anything

34:19

to save our marriage. But

34:21

now she's asking for distance.

34:24

We only see each other when

34:27

we hand our 16 month old

34:29

daughter over to each other. Our

34:32

conversation is currently limited

34:34

to purely organizational,

34:37

uh matters. She refuses

34:40

marriage counseling or therapy

34:42

and meditation. She said she

34:45

didn't know if we

34:47

ever be, uh, together

34:49

again. How am

34:51

I supposed to show her my love

34:53

and fill her love tank when

34:55

she wants distance and no

34:58

relationship? What should

35:00

I do if this, um, condition

35:03

persists for weeks and months?

35:06

I love her more than anything.

35:08

I see my mistakes. I'm

35:10

willing to work on them. And

35:12

I want to save our marriage.

35:15

It would be so great if you

35:17

could help me. Thank you very much.

35:19

Goodbye.

35:22

I think any time a situation

35:24

like this arises where a spouse

35:26

leaves and

35:29

really had never brought up, apparently

35:31

never brought up the fact that they were very displeased

35:34

in the marriage. Uh, it

35:36

hits the other person and is a tremendous

35:38

shock to them emotionally.

35:41

I think the fact that he really wants

35:43

to work on the marriage, he really is willing

35:45

to work on the marriage. He is willing to to

35:48

apologize for his failures.

35:50

And he recognizes that there are failures.

35:53

All of that is positive. I

35:56

think, however, we cannot make

35:58

a person come back to

36:00

us immediately just because we apologize

36:03

to them. Forgiveness is

36:05

a choice and sometimes

36:07

the hurt has been deep. The

36:09

hurt has gone on for so long

36:11

that they have a hard time even

36:14

thinking about forgiving and

36:16

coming back and trying to work on the marriage.

36:19

Now, here's one other question I would ask

36:21

if I were able to talk with you personally.

36:23

And that is, is she involved

36:26

in a relationship with someone else?

36:29

Many times when a person

36:32

leaves their spouse and

36:34

says to them, I don't love you anymore.

36:37

And so I'm moving out. They

36:39

are already involved with someone else.

36:41

I'm not saying this is true in your case,

36:43

I'm just saying. Often that is the case.

36:46

If that's the case, it's a much more

36:48

serious problem. Because

36:51

if she has loved feelings for somebody

36:53

else and they're being kind to her,

36:55

she's comparing that to the relationship

36:58

she had with you. It will be

37:00

even more difficult for her to

37:02

say no to the relationship

37:05

she's now in. I think if that's

37:07

the case, you best realize

37:10

if there's going to be any hope

37:12

for our marriage, I will have to

37:14

wait until either

37:16

she breaks up with the other person, or

37:18

he breaks up with her, and

37:21

then she comes back crying

37:23

because of her broken heart. And

37:26

that happens. That happens sometimes.

37:28

The person she's involved with, if she is

37:30

involved, will break up with her and then

37:32

she's broken hearted. Then she's more likely

37:34

to come back and and be willing to work on

37:36

the marriage. At any rate, I think

37:38

you have to give her time. We

37:40

cannot make a person forgive

37:42

us, and we have

37:44

to give her time to work through her emotions.

37:47

I would say the best thing you can

37:49

do is be kind to her

37:51

when you do have contact with her. You

37:54

mentioned when you pass the baby to her

37:56

back and forth you have. You just

37:58

be kind to her. Don't preach

38:00

to her. Don't. Don't be negative to

38:02

her. Tell her that

38:04

you are praying for that. You are empathetic

38:06

with her feelings. You can understand

38:09

how hurt she is and

38:11

you and that you love her. No matter

38:13

what happens, you love her. So

38:16

I think be kind to her in whatever

38:18

contact you do have with her rather

38:20

than being negative. If you criticize

38:22

her for what she's doing, put her down.

38:25

She's just going to stay away because, you

38:27

know, you're just she's saying,

38:29

that's what I would have to live with if I came back.

38:31

All your all your critical comments. So.

38:35

God can change hearts. And

38:38

I think praying that God would bring someone

38:40

into her life or some situation to

38:42

her life that would cause her to think differently.

38:45

A God is the only one that can do that. You

38:47

cannot change her heart. You cannot change

38:50

your mind. God can. So

38:52

you pray and you seek

38:55

to develop your walk with God. In the meantime,

38:58

if you are not involved in a church

39:00

and a Christian fellowship, I would encourage you

39:02

to get involved and to build

39:04

some friendships and Christian with

39:06

some Christian brothers and let

39:08

them walk with you through this pain. Don't don't

39:11

try to carry the load alone. Those

39:13

would be my thoughts.

39:15

I'm going to call an audible here on the program

39:17

today and not take any more calls.

39:19

But I want to take you to Nashville

39:21

because Doctor Gary Chapman and

39:24

the book The Five Love Languages,

39:26

they were honored at the

39:28

National Religious Broadcasters

39:30

Convention, and there were a number of people

39:32

that were in attendance

39:34

and Gary was handed an

39:36

award right in front of the a river

39:39

that was going through there. And I wanted to get

39:41

my fishing pole out and fish for those catfish,

39:43

those that were swimming back there.

39:46

But Gary, you spoke to the

39:48

folks that were assembled there

39:50

and you kind of walked us

39:52

through what God had done

39:54

in and through you. And I remembered

39:57

this quote by Soren Kierkegaard.

39:59

I haven't read a whole lot that he has written, but

40:01

I remember this quote life can only be understood

40:03

backwards, but it must

40:06

be lived forwards.

40:08

So let me take you down by the riverside.

40:10

This is what Doctor Gary Chapman said

40:12

in just about three minutes

40:15

of his message to the people there.

40:18

We will never understand everything

40:20

that God does in our lives. One

40:23

of those was that when I went to Moody Bible

40:25

Institute, I was planning to be

40:27

a pastor. So I took the pastor's course

40:30

because I only knew there was two things you could

40:32

do full time for God

40:34

be a pastor or be a missionary. And

40:37

I thought, well, missionaries work in the jungle.

40:39

I don't like snakes, so I

40:41

can't do that. So I took the pastor's

40:44

course, but by the time I finished

40:46

Moody Bible Institute, I

40:48

really sense God wanted me to be a missionary.

40:51

So when I went to Wheaton College to

40:53

get my degree, I majored in cultural

40:55

anthropology, which is a wonderful

40:57

background for serving in other countries

41:00

as well as time went on.

41:02

Uh, we talked to the mission board

41:05

because I was interested in teaching

41:07

nationals so they could reach

41:09

their country for God. And

41:11

the mission board said, well, that would likely be in a college

41:14

or a seminary. So you really need to

41:16

be nice if you had the PhD degree. Well,

41:19

I don't even know that I knew what a PhD degree

41:21

was when they said that. But I

41:23

thought, well, you know, we only got one

41:25

child, so let's just go back to seminary

41:28

and get the PhD. So we spent

41:30

three years and got the PhD, and

41:33

then we were turned down by the mission board because

41:36

of my wife's health. They said, we can't send

41:38

her to Africa. She just helped

41:41

me handle it. So

41:43

here I am. You can imagine how she felt.

41:45

And she actually verbalized that. She said, you know,

41:47

I just feel like I'm keeping you from going to the mission

41:49

field. Well, it breaks my

41:51

heart to hear her, you know, taking

41:53

that kind of responsibility. And

41:56

we really had a hard time wrestling with that,

41:58

you know, asking, God, why don't you lead us this

42:00

direction? And now the door is closed. And

42:02

so we went through all

42:04

of that and had a really hard time figuring that out.

42:07

But I'm like, I'll

42:09

make the next 50, 40, 50 years

42:11

fast. But, uh,

42:13

he ended up teaching at a college here,

42:15

a little college in North Carolina for three years,

42:18

and then going to work at the church where I do

42:20

now, where I have been all these years

42:22

for over 50 years now, uh,

42:25

and started a college ministry, uh,

42:28

Wake Forest University's there. We started

42:30

Bible studies on campus and had open

42:32

house at our house for ten years, every

42:34

Friday night for college students, etc., etc..

42:37

Well, staying on that staff

42:40

and kind of being pushed into counseling

42:42

and writing the books. Uh,

42:45

when the book started being translated in other

42:47

countries, which really, really surprised

42:49

me with my anthropology background,

42:51

that these things would transfer to other cultures.

42:54

And many, many, many of my books have done

42:56

that now. I was in Hungary before the

42:58

pandemic. They had translated 35

43:00

of my books in Hungarian, and

43:03

they always send us copies and we open them up

43:05

and we pray for the countries and for the book.

43:07

And one night I was opening up a box of books,

43:10

and I looked on the couch and my wife was crying,

43:13

and I said, what's wrong, honey? And she

43:15

said, nothing's wrong. I just remember,

43:18

we want to be missionaries. And

43:20

now your books are all over the world. And

43:23

I cried and

43:26

I finally was able to say, okay,

43:28

God, I get it. I

43:30

didn't get it all these years, but I got it

43:32

now. So God often

43:34

surprises us by what he does in

43:37

our lives. And I'm sure many of you have experienced

43:39

that as well.

43:43

I wanted to play that for somebody

43:45

listening today, Gary, who can't

43:48

make heads or tails out of what God is doing

43:50

right now because

43:52

you you may not understand

43:54

it even years down the road what this

43:56

is. But sometimes he gives

43:58

you a little glimpse, doesn't he?

44:00

You're right, Chris, and I think

44:02

it's important that we understand

44:05

that there are things that will happen

44:07

in our lives that we will not understand,

44:09

and we will even question God, but

44:12

always run to God and not away from

44:14

God in those situations.

44:17

You know, there's a song that says when you can't

44:19

see God's hand. Trust

44:21

his heart. His heart

44:24

is good. His heart loves us. His heart

44:26

has good plans for us, and we

44:28

may not see them at the moment, and

44:30

we may not even understand them here

44:32

on this earth. You know, for example,

44:35

my sister died at the age of 58

44:37

after an eight year battle with cancer,

44:39

and here I am still going. All these

44:41

years. I still understand

44:44

that you know that will wait till

44:46

heaven. Some things. However,

44:48

God lets us see in

44:50

the earth why certain

44:52

things happen. So

44:54

we have to trust God's heart because we

44:56

know he's a good God.

44:59

I'm so glad I got to see you. Folks

45:01

don't know when we do this program. You're

45:03

in North Carolina. I'm in Arizona.

45:06

Steve's in Chicago. We don't see each

45:08

other. Even though it feels like, you

45:10

know, I'm sitting there right next to you. But we were able

45:12

to to shake hands and hug each other's

45:14

neck where we.

45:16

We we were. And it was a great time,

45:18

Chris. I really, really

45:20

enjoyed that and saw a lot of people from a lot

45:22

of countries. I remember a young lady was there

45:24

from Venezuela, and she told

45:26

me how much the love language book had meant

45:28

to her, and she said to me, you

45:30

have no idea how that

45:32

love language book has impacted Venezuela.

45:35

She said it is all over the country.

45:38

People are reading that book, so

45:40

you know God knows what

45:42

he's doing. And once in a while he lets us in

45:44

on it.

45:45

Yes he does.

45:47

Oh, aren't you glad? Okay, so before we

45:49

conclude, let me give you the phone number. You want to

45:51

respond? Do you have a question for Doctor

45:53

Chapman? A comment 1866424

45:57

Gary 1-866-424-4279.

46:02

We'd love to hear from you, and don't forget to

46:04

check out our featured resource, the book by

46:06

Doctor Chapman and Shannon Warden, the DIY

46:08

Guide to Building a Family That Lasts.

46:11

Just go to building relationships with

46:13

us again, building relationships

46:16

with us.

46:17

And next week. How do you

46:19

find unity in the church

46:21

when there is so much disunity

46:24

here?

46:24

A great conversation with pastor and author

46:26

of Harmony Pierre in One week. Before

46:29

we go, let me thank our production team,

46:31

Steve Wick and Janice backing with

46:33

special thanks to Chris Siegert.

46:35

Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman

46:38

is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago,

46:40

in association with Moody Publishers,

46:42

a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.

46:45

Thanks for listening.