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1:58

it's own cut anthony were breaking down

2:00

the diego alongside the for sandler majors

2:02

a potato was the pinnacle of professional golf when

2:05

the best i hadn't world and a living in to it up their place

2:07

and golfing history right on the business

2:09

behind the stars maximize the on the pj to

2:12

enjoy by new she said cofounder golf

2:14

media business know laying off a

2:16

quick editor's note before this episode this

2:19

conversation was recorded before the field

2:21

for the speaks inaugural live golf invitational

2:23

event was announced

2:26

no i'm relaxed i say that think i think it's a

2:29

perfect moment to explore the pj to see like

2:31

all eyes are uncle for the moment when the middle of may to

2:33

see them both it's a rival go freak the challenging

2:36

the potatoes position of most important gulf

2:38

organization in the world nail welcome

2:40

to business breakdown first time caller

2:42

long time listener thanks for having me out of excited

2:45

i liked the breakdowns he gathers done the best

2:47

the appreciate them a journey well to me i've

2:50

been alone scientists have no laying up so i think

2:52

right basal cell today it's with a really basic summary

2:54

of what the pj to is an employee

2:56

what it isn't any measure of it's size only

2:58

be what's the to how much money does that make would

3:00

be perfect as concessional pj

3:03

tor in it's current form there's

3:05

a fiber one see six

3:08

nonprofit organization it's an exclusive

3:10

membership organization a professional golfers

3:13

their mandate is to basically

3:15

run golf tournaments and provide their members

3:18

which are four players whether pj torque

3:20

hard as they call it as many opportunities

3:22

to play competitive golf and win money

3:24

from those tournaments i guess if you boil it down the

3:27

real value of the tories when a poor member

3:29

becomes a member they sign

3:31

away their meteorite and so

3:33

if a player is gonna plan a competitive golf tournament

3:36

especially one that is

3:37

televised or videoed which we've had

3:39

experience with this they have to get released

3:41

from the tour and so that's really where the money comes

3:44

from is that they are at been able to take those collective

3:46

meteorites from all the players they

3:48

are able to go to broadcast partners

3:51

sell those rights groups of rights so

3:53

nbc cbs and now tsp and with the

3:55

digital rights sky sports overcast

3:57

the pond for you and and some other stuff personally

4:00

so they're able to almost pool all those collective

4:02

meteorite and generate a ton of value

4:05

for that which they just signed a new right

4:07

fielder buy into effect this year it will go through

4:09

the twenty thirty the number there

4:12

is reported to be sixty to seventy percent higher

4:14

than it was over the previous term which ended

4:16

last year so estimates put that it's seven hundred

4:18

million dollars a year across all

4:20

those partners and then the other thing they're able to do

4:22

is it couldn't market the players so

4:25

that core mandate is to run professional

4:27

golf tournaments provide the broadcasting

4:30

rights to those but it doesn't end on a course they're

4:32

also

4:33

past with grow in the players their brands

4:35

i guess is the word that a lot of people use off the

4:37

course so whether that's equipment partners or

4:39

what they call one piece official marketing partners

4:42

so those are morgan stanley with justin

4:44

rose morgan stanley's title

4:46

sponsor the players championship they

4:48

have to spend a set amount of money with players

4:50

to sponsor players off the course the

4:52

pj tour kind of claim some of that

4:55

and they pass it along to certain players so

4:57

that's kind of a general overview of how

4:59

they make money right now and if we get into the history

5:01

a little bit there's a lot there you know there's

5:03

been a few schisms over the years of if

5:05

the tour is overstepping because

5:07

it reminds me a little bit of the business

5:09

breakdown you guys did an universal music group where

5:12

the problem the tour has is because there are a member

5:14

run organization they can't play favorites

5:17

with members are basically a trade organization

5:19

so their members are independent contractors

5:21

they're not employees and so they

5:23

basically only reward the players

5:25

for the most part via competitive and

5:27

sentences very black and white so that's why it if

5:30

you play good you win money if partners

5:32

want to work with a player the pj tour of will

5:34

facilitate that but the not supposed to play favorites

5:37

the what happens is some of the top players the guys

5:39

a move the needle rory john

5:42

rom tiger still probably don't

5:44

get rewarded as much as some

5:46

of the guys that play in their wake and are making

5:48

millions dollars a year in your

5:50

know he knows the name or what they look like

5:52

it reminds me again with taylor swift

5:54

and universal music group for some of these top

5:56

artist they have to renegotiate their contract

5:59

because basically subsidizing

6:01

some of the other artists on the label one

6:04

of the things that i always really enjoyed about your

6:06

show and edo less recently but

6:08

more historically has been kind of this concept

6:10

of the tiger tax tigers one of the

6:12

most well paid sportsmen ever

6:15

to have played any kind of sport thoughts your

6:17

contention and what somebody would say is

6:19

he still underpaid relative to what he

6:21

is given to the game and

6:23

you just give us a framing of the tiger

6:25

tax the more you really mean by that and know he can get a mystery

6:29

one of my so she it's you know like a big

6:31

randy my guy wrote a post

6:33

for years ago called the tiger tax and basically

6:36

what happened was tiger to a month for believe

6:38

in ninety six ninety seven

6:40

everyone knows the masters the blew the field away

6:42

blue whale like every records in golf most

6:44

prestigious event which is worth noting

6:47

is not run by the pj tour what is a pj

6:49

tour sanctioned partner that

6:51

led to this influx of sponsor

6:54

money and attention and more fans and

6:56

so the ratings grew with

6:58

the ratings growing more sponsors want

7:00

to be a part of so the toward

7:02

was able to renegotiate broadcast rights

7:04

and that deals jumped doubled or tripled

7:07

it went up in a big way and so from that

7:09

windfall all the prize money went up

7:11

year over year over year and so i think the

7:13

first pj top player to make a million

7:15

dollars when he was pretty strange in nineteen

7:18

eighty eight i believe then

7:20

in i guess ninety four which is middle

7:22

ground but pre tiger the largest

7:24

purse was five hundred and six thousand dollars

7:27

thousand into sports happy if you fast

7:29

forward over one hundred and twenty five

7:31

guys made over a million dollars

7:33

on the pdf for which is mind blowing

7:35

in the largest purse this year is the players

7:37

championship which is the pj tours flagship

7:40

event that they actually run own

7:42

operate out of their headquarters in panavision

7:45

that total purse was twenty million dollars

7:47

with the winner camps miss getting three point six

7:49

million though between that

7:51

ninety four and twenty twenty two this year

7:53

disperse as of just consistently gone up

7:55

in there's been a big job the last

7:58

year to this year lot of that has the

8:00

competition from some upstarts which

8:02

will probably get into and a little bit that get

8:04

a now but the biting the history is really fascinating

8:06

because it rhymes very much with the present

8:08

day so maybe take us back in time to when

8:10

the bj to was founded and then take

8:12

a three the key moments that bring us up to date

8:15

say it's i think worth noting

8:17

the golf as an industry where a wide

8:19

is very fragmented you have the us yeah the

8:22

are in a in the uk that are kind of the

8:24

governing body so they create the rules of golf

8:26

they were kind of the original golf organizations

8:28

like how to run allow the amateur golf so

8:31

the pj tor has relationship with them the us

8:33

open is run by the last year in

8:35

eighty ninety five i believe the pgs

8:38

said the professional golfers association of america

8:40

was founded and so that's when pro

8:42

golf started up until nineteen

8:45

sixty eight the pj of america which

8:47

runs the pj championship which is

8:49

actually happening at southern hills in oklahoma as

8:51

we're recording and the pg a poor

8:53

the poor and professionals split so there

8:55

was a schism the top players were

8:57

getting very frustrated that the

8:59

we're subsidizing a lot of club professionals

9:01

so the split now is you have club professional

9:04

so at your local municipal

9:06

course or country club there is a

9:08

pc a tour had pro and or spice

9:10

an assistant pros those guys run

9:13

and operate pro shop and run the golf

9:15

at those institutions back

9:17

in the fifties and sixties a

9:19

lot of the money for both pj

9:22

tour pros and for pj professionals

9:24

came through pro shops it was club sales

9:26

shirts golf these things like that in

9:29

in the fifties that's kind of when arnold palmer came

9:31

on the scene the basically invented brand

9:33

marketing for athletes golf started

9:35

be televised and that's when pj

9:38

poor like the top tier professionals

9:40

that said a top fifty guys the started

9:42

below bit more money in playing flood the

9:45

rules of competition hadn't

9:47

really changed so do

9:49

i think making sixty five whether

9:52

, were number one in the world or number one

9:54

thousand everybody had a monday qualified

9:56

to tournaments is crazy because in

9:58

golf a lot of pros can

10:00

get hot for around and so the

10:02

top guys separate themselves with the system

10:05

in the pg a championship it

10:07

wasn't a guarantee that jack nicklaus would be

10:09

in it he still had a monday qualify and so

10:11

they started to change some of these rules in the mid

10:13

sixties but the top professional

10:16

so nicholas and billy

10:18

casper and palmer were all very

10:21

upset and they basically so we're gonna break away

10:23

whereas starts the american professional

10:25

for a p t or something like that and said

10:28

we need more control over the competition

10:31

a professional golf so he can

10:33

i came to ahead and nineteen sixty eight and

10:36

the pj of america ceded

10:38

to the top pros and they created a tournament players

10:40

division which was the early

10:43

formation of the pj tor as it is now

10:46

they created a mandate and it said that

10:48

the toro be run by a commissioner and and

10:50

funny commissioner there be a board of

10:52

for players and then an independent

10:54

board of i think five people and

10:56

they hired joe di who was i think

10:58

at the u s g a or a former

11:01

u s g a commissioner had of us

11:03

to a to be the first or commissioner in

11:05

sixty nine seventy four

11:07

and that kind of was the original

11:09

formation and that mandy the actually

11:11

can affect to this day so

11:13

from there the stay pretty

11:16

mellow until seventy four and joe

11:18

dies succeeded by seen beeman

11:21

as people like to say he was great player in his own right

11:23

he had one a bunch on tories former

11:25

player and he came in and

11:27

grew the tor assets from seven

11:30

hundred and thirty k seventy four

11:32

to over two hundred million when he retired in nineteen

11:34

eighty three so beam him was there's a

11:36

great book about him by adam super called

11:38

been beam in golf driving force

11:41

his whole thesis when he took over as commissioner

11:43

was the office wildly undervalued

11:46

were not marketing your golfers

11:48

properly were not monetizing properly with

11:50

broadcast partners so he works with

11:52

roone arledge that's a b c and

11:54

wide world of sports and really worked on the television

11:57

stuff and he was the first guy to start bringing in the

11:59

little like official marketing partner so national

12:02

record i think cruise liners

12:05

it's all over that period from seventy four to

12:07

eighty a few the key things that he did

12:09

was like i said he meant that marketing he

12:11

also started to pj toward pension program

12:14

which is known to be the by far the best

12:16

in pro sports so you get into that in a little because

12:18

it's pretty interesting and just created

12:20

a lot more value around the pj tours and entity

12:23

he also move the bgh or to it's current headquarters

12:25

in on of eager so tbc

12:27

sawgrass enlisted he died

12:30

the famous architect to design it

12:32

the stories that he bought the land for one dollar because

12:34

it was kind of nasty won't be

12:37

very any built the stadium course now

12:39

that the tor also owns and operates thirty

12:41

other are they playing courses

12:44

if you see the title tpc river

12:46

highlands tpc craig's ranch

12:48

these are all courses around the country

12:50

around the world the puget or has an interest in

12:52

and ownership some they operate fully

12:54

some they just own or license their name to

12:57

the eighty three there was actually another i

12:59

guess you could cause schism where the top players

13:01

again got upset because they felt like

13:04

the tor and dean beam and specifically

13:06

was overstepping their mandate which

13:08

was arnold palmer and jack nicklaus

13:10

and some the the top guys were developing

13:12

their own brands so golden bear on

13:15

palmer was umbrella palmer's a spokesman

13:17

for efforts redcar well the pj

13:19

towards his side national as the official

13:22

rental car company so they were worried that the pj

13:24

tories going to cannibalize some of their personal

13:26

sponsorships in their brands that

13:28

was where he was reaffirmed that tore

13:31

is going to be responsible

13:33

for marketing the game of golf

13:35

but also bringing sponsors two

13:37

players directly which is what you're seeing in the current

13:39

format so then he fast forward a little bit

13:41

into ninety ninety four the

13:44

beam and was succeeded by tim finchem

13:46

and even we're back and he actually qualified

13:48

for the open championship in the eighty's while he

13:50

was commissioner lives here in jacksonville

13:52

east or at least still a great player in his own right i

13:55

was a tremendous a true steward

13:57

of the game since him was more of

13:59

a some form a company man

14:01

i think he was a lobbyists in d

14:03

c so we had some political connections

14:05

and so right when he came on the scene there was

14:08

another attempt at a breakaway with

14:10

a name that probably seen pop up recently

14:12

greg norman the sharks tried to

14:14

create the world golf tour and his saying

14:16

was that there are too many

14:19

tournaments and for international

14:21

player specifically everything is us based

14:23

and why don't we do eight

14:25

to ten in tournaments with

14:27

massive your million dollar purses

14:30

again at the time the largest versus five

14:32

hundred and six thousand dollars less

14:34

for more the top player so these will be like

14:36

no current events with the top forty

14:39

or top sixteen the world the world

14:41

i play for big money aged ten times year

14:43

though that was a threat to the tour and

14:46

fincham was able to fight that off using

14:48

kind of stole norman's ideas he created the world

14:50

golf championships of the wgc which

14:53

are awaited the tor is able to

14:55

reward the top players those are no current events

14:57

these be more bombs are kind of scale and some of those back

15:00

but there are no cut events the top sixty meaning oh

15:02

yeah to do a show up and has he shot in the last place guy

15:04

gets thirty kg sixty care whatever it

15:06

is so that rewards the guys that

15:09

have played the best over the last year to

15:11

the highest in the official little golf rankings

15:13

and a way to make sure that they are being

15:15

rewarded since him so

15:18

he also made it a very

15:20

clear points to highlighted

15:23

the tours main goal other than getting

15:25

it's members as many competitive starts

15:28

an opportunist playoffs possible is that

15:30

each tournament has to have a charity centerpiece

15:32

charity components in that's big because toward

15:35

come under fire for being a nonprofit

15:38

and we can dig into a little bit i wouldn't been

15:40

berman before him that had changed the struck from

15:42

a for profit and see into a nonprofit discharge

15:44

the model that leaves the run today yes

15:46

thats exactly right and that was big so the

15:49

tour its been reported by yes p n

15:51

they did a big outside the lines piece in twenty thirteen

15:53

that the tour save ten to twenty million

15:55

dollars a year by not paying taxes and

15:57

so their argument is that we passed that along the

16:00

reporter the big in the eighties and

16:02

nineties they might got away from that messaging that

16:04

as well as they should i think since and

16:06

saw round the corner was some of that and said we need

16:08

to make this a centerpiece by

16:10

law to charities is run through the

16:12

tournaments he gets a little grey

16:15

because what did whore raises

16:17

an actual charity on their books is

16:19

much lower than what they kwame

16:21

at times which they justified in

16:24

doing because they're say hey art tournaments

16:26

generated hundreds of millions dollars

16:28

for charity or over the past twenty years

16:30

i think it's two or three billion dollars

16:32

what they're actually putting on their books is a lot less the that

16:34

so people have argued whether they should be

16:36

a nonprofit again i

16:38

digress off fincham the time it off

16:41

it coincides with tiger and he did a great

16:43

job of continuing with demon

16:45

was doing and over the course of those

16:47

broadcast renegotiations monetizing

16:50

the tour in a big way so fincham the

16:52

end of things off game on him in twenty

16:54

seventeen and the pj tourist place

16:57

a focus i think recently on

16:59

one expanding internationally so see

17:02

those tournaments in what they call the wrap around

17:04

season the twenty twenty two season started

17:06

in two thousand twenty one in the fall ersatz

17:09

tournaments in china others tournaments in mexico

17:12

so they're trying to grow the presence internationally

17:14

again they're trying to continue

17:16

to upset her size and make sure that the

17:18

top players don't the older

17:20

need to go to arrival

17:22

toward that's a really really helpful

17:24

summary by history and just where we are today

17:27

and just before we go on to the business

17:29

model itself because as you say a lot of tools

17:31

issue today stem from the business world as work

17:33

quite well for them for many years but they're almost

17:35

count the new ups or league that kind of counter

17:37

positioned against the tools model and

17:40

we'll see how that plays out but just in terms of how

17:42

of the commissioner declared by the council

17:44

on the outside board members of rate together how

17:46

does that work since the tours

17:49

a member on organization if

17:51

players one change they can vote on it so the

17:53

player advisory council take two players they

17:55

would both it rained the pj tour over

17:57

the course of the kids tours like

18:00

time i think the players get very very focused

18:02

on the task at hand which is i just want

18:04

to work on my golf game working for

18:06

me it has been on a competition

18:09

but technically it is a member and organization

18:11

so if the players like an eighteen

18:13

eighty three if they want to make changes and they

18:15

can rally support from their colleagues

18:18

that's possible but the torres been successful

18:20

in fighting off those the camps that

18:22

a break away rory mcilroy stay really

18:24

eloquently on your podcast about his job on

18:26

that council and a lot of the disunity

18:28

them to make he's not making from south he's making for

18:31

that number hundred and twenty in the world who is part

18:33

of a tool and alibi different mindset

18:35

and interest in what happens as rory

18:37

mcilroy does fighting now we still did or

18:40

around it let's dive into the business for myself

18:42

and maybe it's not even a business owner will does not necessarily

18:44

a business the pj's or what i'm really

18:46

into the past discusses the structure

18:49

of how works because their members know employees

18:51

that was the independent contractors than you have the

18:53

commissioner and the beach it yourself you've

18:56

got the tournament's that they sanctioned and go

18:58

to buy that unnecessary been them to three

19:00

three all the different stakeholders in the pj

19:02

to and how they fit together again

19:04

bachelor mandate their goal is to get

19:06

their members as many starts or opportunities

19:08

to make money as possible the business

19:11

model is rooted in broadcasting

19:13

golf so they have the exclusive rights to broadcast

19:16

their members and then from those broadcast

19:18

rights saplings and sponsors and then they

19:20

can use the sponsors to from

19:23

the telecast and then also help

19:25

their players grow their profile work

19:28

with those partners and so everybody wins

19:30

as the game of golf is broadcast

19:33

and promoted around the world the tor hasn't

19:35

been super transparent so

19:37

like officially their numbers you can see

19:39

up to twenty nineteen as far as the economics

19:41

of it but they actually released a letter to

19:44

players in december outlining the business

19:46

model and a forecast for twenty twenty two and

19:48

this was reported by ayman linseed golf

19:50

week and some other golf writers in december

19:53

and the revenue breakdown of the total forecasted

19:55

revenue for the tour in twenty twenty two was

19:57

one point five two billion dollars

20:00

and so again that's forecasts but it breaks down to

20:02

about six hundred and sixty million is tournament

20:04

related revenue so that comes from title sponsors

20:07

and official marketing partners of

20:09

the pj tour six hundred thirty four million

20:11

of that is domestic and international media right

20:14

revenue as the earlier but they just signed

20:16

a new right deal that went into

20:18

effect this year and that's estimated at

20:20

around seven hundred million a year that's

20:22

up from four hundred million a year which was

20:24

the reported number the last think ten

20:27

years the previous yourself you can see

20:29

they've grown even though that tiger

20:31

impact isn't quite there they're still

20:33

able to almost double or i guess

20:35

raise revenue by sixty seventy percent on the broadcast

20:38

side that makes of i think eighty

20:41

five percent of the tours revenue

20:43

or projected revenue for this year and then

20:45

the remaining two hundred and twenty five million so

20:47

i guess twenty five percent of that comes from the

20:50

tpc the courses they own then

20:52

they also corporate in retail licensing deals

20:55

so pj tor superstore that's

20:57

been independent entity i think it's own by

20:59

arthur black swans the falcons but i'm

21:01

sure the tj tor has a licensing agreement

21:03

there on top of that one point five

21:05

though that doesn't include an additional

21:07

four hundred million in non discretionary

21:10

what they call past rub know it's agree

21:12

a hundred million of that is contractually

21:14

required to float tournament he shared his as

21:16

directed by sponsors to that's the pile of money

21:18

that tor passes through

21:20

to help these independent tournaments run

21:22

the tournament make sure that it lives up to the

21:25

standard of pg a tour a

21:27

few total golf tournament they are massive massive

21:29

undertaking so it's crazy infrastructure

21:32

for the broadcast it's stands

21:34

is catering it's all that stuff

21:36

but being a non profit also makes a lot

21:39

easier for them to enlist volunteer hell which

21:42

we've been critical of in the past they make the vaunted

21:44

pay some of that stuff

21:46

is a little bit like have with billion dollars fine

21:48

around why are we doing that and then very

21:51

interesting piece of this is three hundred million of that

21:53

the additional past the revenue goes to

21:55

media partners though the

21:57

broadcast border cbs nbc they

22:00

hey let's say seven hundred million dollars but

22:02

then the tour has the tournament title

22:04

sponsors and fedex they sponsor kind

22:06

of the season long fedex cup they

22:08

have to purchase i think it's around sixty seventy percent

22:11

of the commercial load so

22:13

there is a built in advertising load

22:15

to help the networks make

22:17

money make this a money making opportunity

22:19

so that's almost like

22:21

i guess revenue that your marks specifically

22:23

to go straight to the broadcast

22:25

and their broadcast partners i've been

22:27

released in part this is how

22:29

that business model and the way they earn

22:32

the money ends up shaping the tournament's

22:34

in the gulf that we watch as spectators

22:37

it would be much more fun to have more

22:39

formats of styles of golf but the praise

22:41

and to or typically see to be place

22:43

and tissue whole strike may have been saved me to explain

22:45

the link of why that ends up happening and why the

22:47

found that might not be the best thing for us the

22:50

reason for the seventy two whole strokeplay

22:53

set up is it's very predictable it's repeatable

22:55

for the broadcast partner you're usually

22:58

guaranteed in that format to get the best

23:00

players the ones that are the most consistent

23:02

over those four days they're gonna be gonna ones

23:04

they're ones sunday so there's an event

23:06

in march every year the dell

23:08

matchplay it's a world golf championships

23:10

so it's a no cut of then that's a match

23:13

play bracket a bed and

23:15

the issue with match play is that

23:17

they're also good that somebody can get hot and

23:19

jon rahm can get beat by richard bland

23:22

no offense to which bland but the

23:24

on rom is the guy that move the needle right

23:27

so theres matchplay he can lead

23:29

to a matchup between i

23:32

don't know robert gary guests in richard bland

23:34

in the semi finals that's not great for dell

23:37

because they're using this event as a way to

23:39

entertain clients it's not great for the

23:41

telecast i dunno how many people really

23:43

want to tune into that vs jon rahm

23:46

vs rory on sunday and

23:48

kind of kind eighteen hold dual so

23:50

the tour has been very conservative with format

23:52

because with just leads to the most consistent

23:54

predictable outcome and the best

23:56

golf overall drop the calendar the

23:59

other thing about the off recently

24:01

there's really no off season anymore they've good

24:03

as golf tournament every week in some capacity

24:06

and so there's a little bit of over saturation

24:08

and the example uses f one though

24:11

apple has i think twenty or twenty

24:13

two races year but there's a lot of you know off

24:15

weeks i think this week is enough weeks ago

24:17

two three weeks where they want race

24:19

and said builds up a little bit of i

24:21

guess scarcity and away and so

24:24

because the tour has a golf event every

24:26

week not every event can be

24:29

the elevated event not every of a can be a major

24:31

and so there's a little bit of how do you keep

24:33

all the sponsors happy and

24:36

make sure that their ratings don't yet it

24:38

also not over saturate and were

24:40

out the golf and every tournament kept

24:42

equal let's now go

24:44

on the underside they making one and a half billion

24:47

dollars revenue this year estimated

24:49

to anyway indistinct detonator that stamps

24:51

and of the nfl in terms of comparison

24:54

of the to different schools or how are they paying

24:56

that ruthie out imagine the players get

24:58

a fair chunk about how much in them to else is getting

25:00

paid forecasted operating

25:02

expenses or seven hundred sixteen million seventy

25:05

five percent that goes towards tournament related

25:07

expenses and then the other smaller

25:10

piece of that goes to employ related expenses

25:13

paying the commissioner building or new

25:15

for headquarters global home things

25:17

of that nature that leaves eight

25:19

hundred and six million available

25:21

for players slash prize

25:23

allocation the tor actually has

25:25

a reserve fund and they get into with this year

25:28

thirty two million to help fund

25:30

some of these players earning increases

25:33

the i guess for a player suspect of is the player

25:35

to stand up and plays like will do everything for

25:37

you will host adornments you come you

25:39

play and you don't need to have anything else that's

25:42

been the model for the tor especially

25:44

the good times when there isn't rival competition

25:47

whatever you wanna call it the toward a hasn't

25:49

done a great job of communicating with players

25:51

how much money they're paying out so

25:53

phil mickelson who's been news alot how

25:55

to quote back in before that the

25:57

tory only pays out twenty six percent

26:00

the revenue to players this is a disgrace we

26:02

need to be paid more the tour vehemently

26:05

denies that or responded by saying

26:07

some of these numbers to the players to take

26:09

that seat hundred and thirty eight million that's

26:11

fifty five percent of money goes

26:13

out player they are very the

26:15

adamant that one that twenty six percent number

26:17

was wrong and to like we're doing a lot for you

26:19

guys i think when times are good

26:21

though and the players are just focus on their game

26:24

they're not asking a lot of questions and the tor

26:26

isn't really proactively messaging

26:28

how much money they're doling out

26:31

as far as prizes and and compensation

26:33

does seem like a bit more transparency game foods

26:35

i think so i think that's a good thing and when you

26:37

look at the numbers it's really interesting

26:39

business it's unique and a lot of ways but

26:41

their goal again is to create

26:44

as many opportunities for the players to play for

26:46

big money or in this case big money

26:48

as they can one thing that dipped into that

26:50

reserve fund think they had a dip into

26:52

it for kovac because they had the make some

26:54

tournaments whole back and twenty twenty when things got

26:56

cancelled i think tim fincham

26:59

and monaghan did a great job of building up that war

27:01

chest now they're dipping into

27:03

it to fight off some of these rivals

27:05

little bit and so some notable purse increases

27:08

the fed ex cup playoffs sap pool

27:10

was up to seventy five million the

27:12

winter getting eighty million set up from fifteen

27:14

million which patrick can't lay one

27:16

last year so the winter this year will get eighty million

27:19

the bonus pools seventy five million as

27:21

i said the two events that lead up to

27:23

the fed ex cup championship the bmw

27:25

championship and i think of said accent uses

27:27

now of play off within those are both

27:29

gone from eleven million total pursue

27:32

i think thirteen or fifteen million and

27:34

in a players which is a statement by the

27:36

pg a tor because they run that

27:38

of that they have made that the highest paying

27:40

largest person golf and in history which

27:43

is twenty million dollars and so camp smith one

27:45

that was three point six million this year so

27:47

that bigger than the masters the us open which

27:49

is always traditionally been i think the largest

27:51

purse and the pj championships of their

27:53

kind of pushing the pace and saying hey this

27:56

is what we have control over look what we're doing for you guys

27:58

the grinch thing and then if will up that the best

28:01

pension and sport dog or three the

28:03

origins of that and exactly how that works

28:05

and why it's kind of unique for the charity

28:07

or non profit structure that the two runs

28:10

let me circle back to the ancient because

28:13

the other thing that they're doing with some of that

28:15

player allocation money and as i mentioned earlier

28:17

the the members are independent contractor so

28:19

the can't really play favorites but the finding

28:21

ways to do it with trying to get

28:23

official marking partners to work directly with

28:26

the players but also they have appointed to incentive programs

28:28

that they've rolled out and so that kind of falls under

28:30

this expense category as well one

28:33

of them that is in the news a lot of kind of plays the player

28:35

impact program the pits as they call it nobody

28:37

knows how to measure but it's just or briatore

28:40

and algorithm and algorithm formula

28:43

for this forty million dollars last years for

28:45

you may dollars this year to be fifty million dollar prize

28:47

pool and it's basically a measurement

28:49

of who move the needle with fans so i think that's a good

28:51

nielsen ratings comscore

28:54

klaus scores i guess they're taking

28:56

into account some performance on the

28:58

course and are saying who are the top ten

29:00

fan favorites well the poetic

29:03

part of this is the tiger woods won the pip last year

29:05

he won the eight million dollar first place prize and after

29:08

his car accident in february twenty twenty one

29:10

he didn't play golf it's another way

29:12

of the tour trying to reward the top

29:14

guys have like stick with us here and

29:16

also the guys that are interacting with fans

29:19

and doing more to grow

29:21

the game there's a bunch of other ones or fedex

29:23

cup which we've talked about then that's been around

29:25

since i think two thousand and seven that's

29:28

always been an incentive program to reward the

29:30

top players we talked about the no cut

29:32

wgc events the comcast

29:34

business top ten is another season

29:36

long your board that i'm not really

29:39

sure how it's calculated what if we see it every

29:41

week there's the a on risk reward

29:43

challenge which is basically a whole gets

29:45

picked every week and whoever

29:47

i think scores the best on it gets points

29:50

and then at the end of year the winner makes

29:52

like million bucks and then there's like

29:54

i said prize money bumps to these limited field

29:56

events then there's another one that are serious

29:58

about because it's not really incentive

30:01

i guess you could argue incentive based but it's start

30:03

base so they're basically fifty for fifteen

30:06

so they're giving tor players there's

30:08

a flat fifty k bonus if they play

30:10

fifteen events year the idea of being

30:12

like we want more of our players to show

30:14

up at these events in increase the strength

30:16

of field and that creates a better product

30:19

those are all the ways that they're trying

30:21

to show the players like hey

30:23

one more try to get you guys opportunities make more

30:25

money given into our reserves to

30:27

do it and to they're trying to focus sit

30:29

around most of them set maybe the last one around

30:32

how can i reward the top

30:35

and top twenty in the world the

30:37

historically good place the

30:39

fifty fifteen is that purely the pg

30:42

a top players or is that good antiquorum ferry

30:44

and some of the other tools that they operate the

30:46

question i don't know the answer to that i

30:48

would say it's probably toward card

30:50

carrying poor members it may go towards

30:52

guys that have conditional status and stuff

30:54

like that i'm not totally sure about

30:57

that the really interesting dichotomy

30:59

between the right off which obviously means the

31:01

needle and is the incentive for everyone he wants to get into

31:03

preschool there's a huge disparity

31:06

i guess between those guys you're making a lot of money and

31:08

everyone else he on the contrary hitler's

31:10

the was a people grinding really hard as you

31:12

are saying to make it into the digital which is not easy

31:14

and just making ends meet as they're

31:16

having to travel across a different ornaments throughout

31:19

the well just kind of make a living and say you have this massive

31:21

difference or the towards fighting on both ends as got

31:23

one of the top is trying to play as bad

31:25

as much as i possibly can for those people her track

31:28

their marketing dollars and ad dollars and

31:30

then at the bottom as just trying to keep all make

31:32

sure that it pay though enough for these people to

31:34

i'm saying appeal to sustain themselves in their families

31:36

yeah it's about time we got the same as pension

31:39

or this pension and school to missouri fun

31:42

fact over six hundred pro golfers

31:44

currently have more than one million dollars in

31:46

their retirement plan some have

31:48

significantly more basic overuse

31:50

because top players are considered

31:52

independent contractors independent contractors just do

31:55

an employee employer four one

31:57

k the kids just put money into retirement account they

31:59

have to i deferred compensation plan

32:01

and a half be incentive based so

32:04

again mr beam and this games he came

32:06

up with the to cut program

32:08

in the nineteen eighties basically to

32:11

a the pj top players to make money one is

32:13

by making a call at a tournament so

32:15

after thirty six holes half the field caught more

32:17

cause you make the more you can put your retirement

32:19

so that fine print of that as as long as they play

32:22

and sixteen events they make those

32:24

cuts i know notice numbers change but forty

32:26

eight hundred dollars is referred into their

32:28

retirement account and then each thought

32:30

that they've made over those fifteen

32:32

starts the doubles from there

32:35

so there's an incentive for them to play more the

32:37

other way and this is a big reason that the fed

32:39

ex cop bonus for their supply

32:41

us recreated is if they finish top

32:43

one fifty in the world they get into

32:45

the fedexcup bonus my plan so this

32:48

year as i said earlier the number one player

32:51

that the fed ex cup champion will get eighteen million

32:53

and price one million of that will be

32:55

deferred to retirement income so seventy

32:57

million will be in tas in a one million will go

32:59

into their retirement account the

33:02

golfers can then take their retirement

33:04

after the age of fifty and the fed ex cup

33:06

bonus money they can start drawing from as

33:08

age forty five or a

33:10

year after they play and fewer than fifteen pj

33:12

tour or pj torch have been events

33:15

so there's a massive pot of gold at the end

33:17

of the rainbow now what's interesting is like if

33:19

you look at the mlb pension plan they

33:21

have much more of an employer employee relationship

33:24

much like or yeoman that is dictated

33:26

by maximum sperm the rs and

33:28

the an obese pension plan is based

33:30

on years of service so if

33:32

it's pool halls or some

33:34

journeymen said they're all kind of treated the

33:36

same as far as retirement goes the reason

33:39

that the pj tours is so advantageous

33:41

is because it rewards you perform well

33:44

you get more to your time and account so in this really

33:46

no cap on it or the cap is much much

33:48

much higher it's a huge the

33:50

value add to their members and because

33:53

vessel golf is feast or famine if you don't make

33:55

because you don't make money and you have a ton of

33:57

expenses your fly and from city to city you

33:59

stand out hell you're paying the caddies

34:01

a flat rate if you don't make the cut so some

34:03

of the guys the bottom of the money list of they're having a tough

34:06

year there is no money coming in

34:08

the door in the eighties when the money was

34:10

as good i think this was a program that

34:12

was like hey these guys need to be able to

34:14

put some money away as independent contractors

34:17

the now eat fast forward to the last

34:19

five ten years the money so big that lousy

34:22

awesome awesome program so

34:24

i've always found that really interesting that they were able

34:26

to get that approved even though technically these

34:28

guys are independent contractors yeah

34:30

it's not something you hear about very often as he used by

34:32

worth noting as well that there is also champions

34:34

to say no need is there a pension

34:36

plan for people that they can take from forty five of

34:38

his the there's also a tool that they can i

34:41

know from for them i guess after the pj to herself

34:43

the some with them to find a trade for letting

34:45

us something the year by sports a law a it's

34:47

a short career the most other schools and be

34:50

you feel for lost once you finish playing was

34:52

gulf years more longevity and there's also

34:54

some from for them to go indeed if they so

34:56

choose after they finished on the pk

34:58

to having stores and me fascinating

35:01

because a lot of guys they'll

35:03

lose their card at forty two but to

35:05

make it is a champion's tour used to be had have three

35:07

wins at the yes have five pg tor

35:10

wins now or you've made x amount

35:12

of money but they've added tighten up the

35:14

eligibility there's also pg a

35:16

champion store qualifying for a lotta guys

35:18

will basically weight and continue

35:21

to work on their game they won't take their retirement

35:23

money because it's either or if you

35:25

start taking that retirement money you can only play and i think

35:28

like seven or eight champion's tour events

35:30

per year to lot of guys will sit and

35:32

wait and when they turn fifty they had

35:34

shaving store and they start going gangbusters

35:36

a guy right now the top of champions for money list

35:38

even alker he has made more money this

35:41

year in the champions towards an email in his career the

35:43

professional golfer up until the age of forty

35:45

nine so i don't know what he did to

35:48

get his game ready for the chevy store but i find

35:50

that fascinating that he was able to have

35:53

a second actor be a late bloomer or

35:55

whatever you want to call it it didn't really competitive

35:57

out there you got infuriates david tom's

36:00

who are bernard long as a perennial

36:02

killer on that tour there's money to be

36:04

made for these guys after the age of fifty

36:07

the i think we frame that the pj to as it

36:09

is today really really well now let's get

36:11

to the gc part of the arrival tools

36:14

namely the stl and pdl or that

36:16

the acronyms that they go by maybe can to

36:18

flesh out the cool argument that these

36:20

towards the making two players and why they

36:22

think there's an opportunity to disrupt the game while

36:25

rewind about a year the initial rival

36:28

league was the pdl so the premier

36:30

golfweek and when they kind of announced

36:33

and rumbling started to eke out there was

36:35

a rival golf league starting they were

36:37

working with the saudi backed

36:39

league so the saudi state investment

36:41

fund i think the size word a one

36:43

of many investors in the pdl

36:46

so busy else had cool when i don't work with them anymore

36:48

the model of the pdl was a

36:51

huge example of f one in what we've talked about

36:53

is there are too many golf events

36:55

and because of that the top players in the world don't say

36:57

soft so similar what greg norman try to do

36:59

and ninety four let's have twenty

37:02

events cross the world and it will

37:04

be the top forty golfers and they will play

37:06

for a prize money twenty

37:08

nine dollars per tournaments no current events

37:11

and let's also power outage thrown at sea

37:13

master that opens up the opportunity

37:15

for top players say phil

37:17

and tiger the partner with a

37:19

team owner say and equipment company or

37:22

another brand and create basically

37:24

a team of four for a team of six

37:26

foot four guys their scores are going to come though

37:29

at the end of the twenty tournaments season

37:32

there will be a individual winner and

37:34

they're also be it seem pay some

37:36

ways that model as an avid golf

37:38

and that sounds pretty interesting that is

37:40

something as as i would watch we

37:42

were starting from scratch i think that the

37:45

answers some of the issues that

37:47

the tour has and then at the end of each season

37:49

there would be similar to the premier league the relegation

37:52

whatever let's say the bottom ten guys

37:54

in the standings they're gone back to the pch

37:57

or or they're out of the pdl and

37:59

then they're gonna recruit the top young talent so

38:02

guys that are just come on the scene like right now cameron

38:04

young you know he's a rookie on tour you've making

38:06

a splash wills outsource another guide

38:09

those guys would then get basically drafted into

38:11

the ten or twelve teams

38:13

in the pdl that was kind of the original

38:15

model a year ago the gl

38:17

there was a schism the stl broke off

38:20

well the as feel just took the model the

38:22

and they beat the pdl to market with it

38:24

i think the pdl was try to back channel with

38:26

pt a torn say hey we would like

38:28

to work together with you on this but pj

38:31

they're not going to give up their turf and say what are we going to become

38:33

like the feeder lead to this pdl so

38:36

there's a stalemate their i believe last

38:38

year's super golfweek very

38:40

creative name this is the league

38:43

the you're hearing a lot about these days and that is

38:45

fully backed by private investment fund

38:47

of saudi arabia ceo is called

38:49

live golf is the name of the entity

38:51

is headed by greg norman currently

38:54

and they have basically

38:56

struck basically deal with the asian tour which is subsidiary

38:59

of subsidiary believe the dp world tour which is

39:01

for everyone out that the euro tour and they

39:03

basically said ready to say model

39:05

where have these know cause team events massive

39:07

purses the and would try

39:09

to recruit the best golfers complain these events

39:12

so that didn't really get off the ground

39:15

mainly because there's a lot of blowback

39:17

for saudi arabia's involvement

39:19

in the idea is that this is sports

39:21

washing saudis , trying to

39:24

improve their brand of the world stage and

39:26

similar to what you're seeing and soccer and you

39:28

know you guys u f one they're trying to use

39:30

sports to improve the brand brand

39:33

put that aside for now i want to get the facts

39:35

out on what they're trying to do so because

39:37

of that blowback the live golf as

39:39

adjusted and said cool this year we're just gonna

39:41

have gonna cholesterol that's the first one

39:44

for to live golf of that will be in june it's

39:46

scheduled in centurion club

39:49

there's rumors there will be some trump properties

39:51

cross the u s and some other courses have been

39:53

floated for think it's seven or eight events

39:56

a collection of that's i think you're trying to get some rest

39:59

and figure out what they're doing so

40:01

it's not really the whole league model early

40:03

just don't have the team aspect but right

40:06

now they're kind of put in a call out to anybody

40:09

and everybody wants you apply to play and

40:11

or golf tournament in june and

40:13

there were several pg a

40:15

tour and euro top players that applied

40:18

for releases from the bgh or i

40:20

think last week or last month and

40:22

they got denied by the tour and

40:25

so again the war on the meteorite

40:27

to card carrying member though

40:29

if they want to be i know lang of you tube video

40:31

we have to go and say hey we want to work

40:33

with max home and have him on an episode of scrapped

40:36

or whatever we have to go ask detour to do

40:38

that usually they grant those requests

40:40

and they made as executive decision

40:42

that they're not going to kick the can down the road

40:44

they have denied players requests

40:47

for release to play in this event and they've said

40:49

there will be punishment them said what kind of punishment

40:51

there will be punishment if you choose to go

40:54

come on the names that have been floated sergio

40:56

garcia lee westwood i think cavanaugh

40:59

jason cole crack some of these guys will

41:01

see what happens if they decide to

41:03

test the tour i'm not a lawyer

41:05

i don't know how to play out the

41:07

argument is that hey were independent contractors

41:10

you guys this is restraint a trade

41:12

in a way you guys aren't allowed to tell us

41:15

we can't go play in this tournament

41:17

you can't take away my membership rights fiji tours

41:19

are go well we're basically trade association

41:22

will the mandate to set the rules for members the

41:24

and you given us that power if

41:26

you don't like that then you don't have used

41:28

the policy board and were have to change

41:30

the rules but we're not going to grant you these

41:33

leases because we think you'll be harmful to the

41:35

pj tore into the rest of our membership though

41:38

as i understand it and we have a

41:40

message board that nl you that's

41:42

, called the refuge where our members

41:44

sat and there's a lot of board lawyers on message board

41:47

and so one of them call mister duffer

41:49

he had duffer he of very succinct way that he

41:51

broke it down there's no set telling

41:53

how this legal stuff will play out by the said

41:56

that the pj towards technically trade association

41:58

of players are basically like this the like

42:00

a normal business in association each is

42:02

independent trade associations may ordinarily

42:05

and legally set membership criteria to

42:07

belong to it's organization and can set

42:10

criteria that would warrant expulsion from the

42:12

association the problem lies

42:14

when a trade association a begins to

42:16

look and operate like a business and be

42:19

that business obtains dominant market power

42:21

then if it's membership policies are intended

42:23

to obtain or maintain that market monopoly

42:25

power they may be illegal and

42:27

unenforceable the argument is does the

42:29

pj tor have monopoly power

42:32

or argument would be no this live

42:34

golf is working with the asian tour you

42:36

guys are free to go play in it for were free to say

42:39

that this is detrimental to our towards you can't

42:41

come back and have the same benefits

42:44

of up pj torpor the players

42:46

may argue if they do choose to go play and

42:48

then try to come back i'm gonna claim hardship

42:51

you guys are being unfair this is

42:53

restrain of trade you guys are acting like

42:55

a monopoly and so that will go to

42:58

civil court with an injunction an injunction sure

43:00

how fast will figure out what happens

43:02

or the would even be a lawsuit

43:04

but the tor saying that we're not going

43:06

to release players is kind of a line in the

43:08

sand so over the next i'd say three

43:11

six nine months work as is player

43:13

that will be very interesting where the taurus

43:15

going to struggle with said the legal stuff

43:18

aside when you boil it down what

43:20

is the toward doing to try to keep players

43:23

on the pc tore his throw money at their

43:25

increasing per sizes what's gonna happen

43:27

though or what could happen is if

43:30

justin thomas and roms start seeing

43:33

or and i even those guys let's go down a little farther

43:35

would say like billy horses and i'm just pulling

43:37

random name's alan not send these guys are going to do this

43:39

but they start seeing richard bland robert

43:42

gehrig yes and maybe some up

43:44

and coming college player that leave college

43:46

early though play any live events

43:49

and when millions of dollars and

43:51

these guys are ranked in the hundreds or to

43:53

hundreds in the world and their

43:55

grinding around the pj tor four hundred

43:58

k or five hundred k for top

44:00

twenty their guns or send a man the

44:02

in of the day like i'm trying to make a living after

44:04

be difficult for the toward overcome

44:07

and when you look at who's backing the

44:09

stl and live golf they've

44:11

got runway they're basically thankful

44:14

we have we have war chest millions

44:16

of dollars that were willing to float this tour

44:18

as he gets on its feet then we can just

44:20

gotta wait it out and maybe will wear down

44:23

some of these mid tier players and then the mid

44:25

tier players go and then all of a sudden it's like

44:27

wait a second the top tier players

44:29

they're grinded on the puget or and they could be winning

44:31

these events because the strength of field isn't as good that's

44:34

all projection amish kind of playing an alpha test

44:36

i think the strategy that the with golf

44:39

squad he's trying to put into practice i

44:42

think the really interesting days point yeah we talked a lot

44:44

about how the pj tour has

44:46

and is continuing to pay his

44:48

best players more more money and

44:51

we talked about the players championship this year being the

44:53

biggest past ever had twenty million dollars

44:55

now the first live go home and is twenty million

44:57

dollars pounds or does the

45:00

different that we're talking about here it's how much

45:02

money do you want and i think the car as far as

45:04

i can see from the towards perspective is

45:06

history in a feeler the top players and own

45:08

appeals compare myself to tiger with on he

45:11

was a jack nicklaus and live gold i

45:13

will do pcl the stl they

45:15

don't have that terror as it stands today they

45:17

have money that they can throw the to as well as

45:20

a slightly more interesting for perhaps from

45:22

a fan's perspective yeah exactly

45:25

what it's worth noting that not

45:27

all the top tournaments are run by the pj tour

45:29

so the major specifically i

45:31

don't know this but this gotta think that the pj

45:34

towards leaning on their partners in other

45:36

friends up at augusta and south wall

45:38

the president of pj america came

45:41

out this weekend fully supporting the pj

45:43

tour i the u s g a dont

45:45

know if theyve made any announcements yet but its what

45:47

can they legally the to ban players

45:50

if they go play and can those other organizations

45:52

do the same thing or is it all just rhetoric

45:54

so the pj tor i think is leaning on those

45:57

their partners and other golf org

46:00

patients and also i think probably up in washington

46:02

try to lobby congress a little bit on hey

46:05

this isn't nationalistic stuff a

46:07

not good at the saudis control the pinnacle

46:09

of golf this has been a and

46:11

their argument a well run american organization

46:13

for years and years that supported how

46:15

to charities around the country no

46:17

we can't allow this to happen i

46:20

don't know if they have the legal rights do that but we're

46:22

gonna find out the interesting part

46:24

of this though is it's like the line

46:26

from true detective ruskell

46:29

time as a flat circle the arguments

46:31

of just come up from sixty eight in

46:33

in a three and ninety four and hear

46:36

what happens is the membership get

46:38

loaded the tiger tax the

46:40

top player the top five ten players

46:42

are subsidizing the rest of these guys

46:45

to come in have a top forty and when

46:47

one hundred k in some of them are looking

46:49

around and saying hey i should go

46:51

over here the and actually get

46:53

one i'm worse in this upstart league mickelson

46:56

he's been notably outspoken

46:58

his whole point was this is a unique

47:00

opportunity to reshape professional golf and

47:03

they are not monetizing be properly

47:05

he was saying that you're leaving ten billion

47:07

twenty billion dollars on the table and

47:10

i don't know where you get that number has two

47:12

pg tor releasing on the financials

47:14

of fifty five percent going to players i

47:16

think what he's saying is i i want control of my meteorite

47:19

maybe i could sell those as and as cheese or

47:21

i could work directly with partners

47:23

like when the math happens when it's tiger

47:25

vs fill that's an exhibition match

47:27

those guys have to get a release from the pj tour

47:30

and you bet that the pj towards getting

47:32

their pound of flesh you know off of that tv

47:35

deal and and they're getting paid out seven

47:37

figure check probably to release tiger

47:39

and phil from their media rights

47:41

to go and do events like that it's an interesting

47:44

kind of position that professional golf

47:46

is in right now from a strategic perspective

47:48

is really interesting just really reminds me of the i'm

47:51

also in the helm a council position

47:53

thing of the pj towards

47:55

though as business mogul around obviously

47:57

the bulk of revenue comes from media

48:00

as well as i've done in sponsorship

48:02

those stakeholders want the

48:04

best players playing as much as possible for

48:06

as long as possible which lends itself to

48:08

many events a the four days playing

48:11

the same format for them to turn

48:13

around and give the players more time

48:15

off or to give the fans more innovative

48:17

formats they have that meet

48:20

their business model and completely changer

48:22

so it's really interesting to see will happen

48:24

there you nailed it right there

48:26

they are hamstrung by year

48:29

it's like turning a cruise ship another one

48:31

of my associates mr dj pie

48:34

he maybe analogy the electrical grid like

48:36

yeah you know i bet like you to talk to a bunch of energy

48:39

companies a lot of start from scratch can

48:41

we just build the grid over but you can't do that

48:43

because you can't turn off everyone's

48:45

lights for two years so then

48:47

always said you're just talk and on in

48:49

this case pip programs and comcast

48:51

business top ten then you're absolutely

48:54

right the model is we have to have

48:56

the tournament every week or forty five of them the

48:59

that's our mandate the players that's also

49:01

the one lever that they pulled for years and years

49:03

is let's get more sponsors let's get

49:06

more tournaments that sponsors can

49:08

ask your name to danny such a

49:10

look at the broadcast numbers the nielsen stuff

49:13

and some of the numbers and off weeks

49:15

or not good

49:17

the majors the top tier tournaments you

49:19

get the best players in the world going head to head

49:22

the numbers were pretty good but like what you said it's

49:24

about revenue wise what one fourth

49:26

of the nfl the and if you look

49:28

at the ratings is significantly

49:30

less than that on a weekly basis especially

49:32

like in january february when they're gone up against

49:35

the playoffs and stuff like that so some

49:38

point do the sponsors of some of these

49:40

lower tier of and say hey man i'm paid millions

49:42

of dollars here and i'm just

49:44

not getting the eyeballs and i think

49:46

golf has always hung it's had on well

49:49

the demographic you might not be big but it's really good

49:51

it's

49:52

the affluent male perfect

49:54

for your work days and your

49:56

finance companies and cut a high net worth individuals

49:59

and cease folks are watching these

50:01

tournaments the at some point it's like

50:03

whoa hold on a second if there's a

50:05

rival golf league and they start to get some momentum

50:08

what does that mean to the broadcast partners say hey

50:10

wait a second like is their opt out language

50:12

can we go in and work with that for or

50:14

do we have to exclusively work with bgh or

50:16

on broadcasting so i don't know the answer those

50:18

questions but if the game

50:21

gets split and half

50:23

the good players are playing over here and another

50:25

half the plane over here it

50:27

could it interesting i'm just a typo

50:29

in this section is worth saying and premise

50:32

i've got this wrong that it's still pretty early

50:34

in this process i think the stl itself

50:36

doesn't have a broadcast partner

50:38

for the advances happening on love

50:41

the details around these tools

50:43

the i'm fully fleshed out or investor at all

50:46

and so when you think about kind of the risks the pj tool

50:48

as a massive both coming down the river but

50:51

it still may be a farewell

50:53

from my perspective they are building the plane

50:56

fall flying it at live golf in

50:58

you can laugh at that but the problem is they

51:00

had they had runway to take off they

51:03

just have a blank check they

51:05

have stumbled all over themselves the last

51:07

six months they've got beat up greg

51:09

norman's in drag a bonds

51:11

for his commentary and in

51:14

all kinds of in i'll have a broadcast border

51:16

they said they probably gonna put it on you tube to start

51:18

but again where this is interesting is that

51:21

the goal of that or they don't have

51:23

to make money it's a brand marking

51:25

play for the saudi investment fund and

51:28

so when you're going up against that as that pj

51:30

tour which is a well run

51:32

business whether or not you like the way they

51:34

run they business of the product they put out it's very

51:36

very very well run and their buttoned up and

51:38

they've had they've had of experience doing it they

51:41

have to make money and ethnic money for the players

51:43

and a half make money for charities and a half keep

51:45

the broadcast partners happy and they have to

51:47

keep fans happy set of the rings they are so they have

51:50

a lot more established stakeholders where's

51:52

the live golf picking cotton do whatever

51:54

they want i have my differences the pdf

51:56

toward the i think it's good idea of the history

51:59

of golf the preeminent golf tour

52:01

is a marketing arm of a

52:03

foreign government so i don't think that's good

52:05

and i don't think that's what pj tories and i think

52:07

you nailed earlier with one thing that's great about golf

52:10

is the history of it that all these guys are

52:12

largely tournaments have been around since nineteen

52:14

sixty pebble beach pro him

52:16

he waste management all the majors

52:19

there's tons of history and so as someone

52:21

who watches golf and comments on golf that

52:24

creates this rich hand this

52:26

to talk about and compare players from different

52:29

generations and fun facts and all the sudden

52:31

like me and now it is gonna like blow it all up

52:33

and she's gonna be a massive task route yeah

52:36

i think that some of the team aspects

52:38

and seeing the top guys face off having

52:40

some off season all of that is attractive

52:43

to me by in it's current form

52:45

was live golf it's tough for me to get excited

52:47

about it long term often in these discussions

52:49

the risk is the hardest parts a drag out

52:51

but i think it here is is very clear what

52:53

the risk is more the biggest risk is i think on

52:55

the flipside if we have seemed the to

52:57

successfully navigate this period of kind

52:59

of the upstart leagues was

53:02

kind of the path to the tool becoming a bigger more

53:04

influential business than it is now

53:06

what does it get a break from the

53:09

commissioner had a called out in his memo

53:11

back in november december which is

53:13

increasing the official marking partners

53:16

those pool so for them specifically their bottom

53:18

line i think that's a big initiative i think

53:20

sports gambling is a huge initiative fan

53:22

door draft kings can go down the list they're

53:24

all advertising on the broadcast

53:27

they're all some of the merciful marking partners

53:29

but i also think the puget were has it's points bet

53:31

so it started so odds on tv where

53:34

does that go do they start to make money on

53:36

the vig the a little cut of gambling

53:39

does it become my hey you have to bed through our in house

53:41

sports book i think they're eyeing

53:43

that as a huge boon probably

53:46

over the next ten years twenty years

53:48

as every other league is again

53:50

you could argue the pros and cons of that

53:52

but it's kind of of fact now that sports gambling

53:55

is being legalized and more

53:57

and more states in the u s and already over across

53:59

mom in there for a while the

54:02

right stuff is kind of locked in the pj

54:04

towards always taught him always grown the game and

54:06

sometimes i get frustrated because it

54:08

feels like they're always in search of dislike white whale

54:11

of like the millennial the young

54:13

person that just flipped on cbs

54:15

was like oh my god this god this much

54:17

fun to watch they're trying to do

54:19

like beaten cool stuff that attracts the young

54:21

golf and and sometimes they do that at

54:23

the expense of hurting off their avid

54:26

fan i would hope they realize sometimes

54:28

i hate this is a nice for we need to

54:30

take care of the horror

54:32

fan how can we do that well one thing

54:34

i would love to see them invest in and he could

54:37

he incremental revenue is digital broadcast

54:39

so pg a tour lines as now run by tsp

54:41

and plus

54:43

how can you make that where i can see what the masters

54:45

does with their usual broadcasts i can

54:47

see every saw i can see every hole i

54:49

can follow i can build a group and watch

54:51

them hit every shot so they've been working on some

54:53

stuff that digital broadcasts it done a lot

54:55

better already with spm plus the

54:57

working on some of that with the players championship

55:00

where they have a camera based on every hole see

55:02

i want to watch mash homa i just want to watch his round

55:04

and i don't want to deal with announcers i don't

55:06

need it you mentioned for me to one earlier

55:09

they as i understand to have signed a contract

55:11

with netflix for netflix or on the ground at the moment filming

55:13

what would effectively be drives the by for

55:15

golf electronic copy the playbook thickly

55:18

in that respect but when one have a lot of issues attracting

55:20

younger fans they can have lost them for

55:22

a good decade or so and now have successfully

55:25

found them and looked allows been traced

55:27

back to the netflix series and i think golf

55:29

is going to employ the same model and see

55:31

how that goes thank you for reminding

55:33

me that i think that's a one good

55:35

for the tor and it's about time but one thing

55:37

they really struggled with because

55:39

it's a member run organization they don't criticize

55:42

the players a lot so there's some guys that

55:44

will have some spotty use

55:47

of the rules or cavalier with

55:49

rules and the tour in the passes

55:51

tub shied away from talking

55:53

about it or broadcast hasn't brought it

55:55

up things like that whereas with you look at f one they

55:58

lean into the drama reporters if

56:00

a cold probing questions they make christian

56:03

in toto they make us does have

56:05

a press conference together they put them in situations

56:07

where they will be drama and they kind of play

56:09

to that so i'm interested to see if netflix's

56:12

able to bring the tour

56:14

who's been very conservative with how they portray

56:16

the players because in the tours my

56:18

these guys are class acts let's make them look

56:20

as buttoned up as possible so that they're very

56:23

sponsored enough gonna in the image

56:25

of tiger who is basically just a bit

56:27

of a robot piece that unbelievable

56:30

golfer but there's not a ton of personality

56:32

so a lot of the tour players it's like they should be

56:35

leaning into somebody's guys personalities i would

56:37

love to see them almost build some of these guys up

56:39

as the villains create some drama

56:41

so i think leaning into

56:43

modernizing the broadcast and making it more

56:45

attractive to younger audiences

56:47

there's ways to do that i don't think they've done a

56:49

great job of that in the past but i'm with you the

56:51

netflix thing is very very intriguing it'll

56:54

be fun to watch so we normally and

56:56

these discussions were asking what you've learned

56:58

and what lessons you might have for investors

57:00

operators having followed the business

57:03

with school for the time the you have was

57:05

and on your mind is one of the most surprising thing that

57:07

my share with someone he may be as new

57:09

it's a goal for bj to herself i

57:12

didn't know much about five oh one

57:14

c six and trade associations

57:16

and member run organizations

57:18

and i think that the structure of structure dj

57:20

tours is really interesting and unique and

57:22

it's complex you gotta really dive

57:24

in and allowed to seven internet's seven internet's

57:27

does that have to pack book that been

57:29

been in golf driving force i guess a really

57:31

good primer on the history the tour in

57:33

really good espn outside the lines

57:36

in twenty thirteen on charity so

57:38

i find it very interesting to dive into that stuff

57:41

and rarely do you have a lot of the businesses

57:43

you talk about our straight public companies

57:45

this is one and you don't see a ton of on

57:48

that hello rich and long

57:50

history of being a

57:52

member run private organization

57:55

seeing how they've improved

57:57

that and grown that over the years is really

57:59

interesting and you ask me earlier like

58:01

where can they find gross and gross is always liked the

58:03

key sometimes , think

58:05

that maybe golf in general

58:08

maybe says not says gross sport

58:10

maybe it shouldn't be like i know that's not what title

58:12

is to callaway or other companies my here but maybe

58:15

it's just there is a really really really

58:17

die hard group of avid

58:19

golfers and people that wanna play golf

58:21

that's all they want to do and less

58:24

cater to them it may be a

58:27

little complacent and that could get upset

58:29

but we're gonna have see what happens if they're able

58:31

to fight off another breakaway tor

58:33

it's almost like it's on the calendar nineteen

58:36

sixty eight title refers you to see me coming

58:38

to be honest ninety four the

58:40

only twenty two or i put on the calendar

58:42

for twenty fifty that there's gonna be another

58:44

breakaway which has a lot of money for that

58:46

will come back and see our when news has been

58:49

so interesting thank you same without breaking down pj

58:51

to with me i'd recommend all

58:53

of nailing outcomes and to anyone who wants to learn more

58:55

about golf or just wants to be inspired by

58:57

the nice place that they go in the good things they talk about

59:00

the no thank you very much i thank you it

59:02

was a pleasure

59:07

to find more episodes breakdowns ranging

59:09

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